Post by Steve Farrelly @ 11:42am 21/03/12 | 35 Comments
The topic has divided gamers everywhere, with many in support of an update to the game's ending arguing that BioWare has not delivered on the promises they made over the course of the series' life, while others are happy to deal with the narrative BioWare crafted, including Irrational's Ken Levine, creator of the BioShock series.
Speaking at a Smithsonian panel in Washington DC, Levine argued that any change to the ending would leave gamers "very disappointed in the emotional feeling they got because... they didn't create it".
"This whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don't think anyone would get what they wanted if that happened," he added.
BioWare's Paul Barnett openly rejected the idea of community-driven narrative changes, or direction arguing that story should be in the hands of the creator.
"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," Barnett told the audience. "Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I don't think she should be forced to make another one."
Drop your own thoughts on the topic in the Comments section, but please be mindful of spoilers.
Source: Vox Games.
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Posted 11:59am 21/3/12
I also think no matter what Bioware did, they'd never please people, because whatever ending they wrote would never live up to what people have imagined in their heads. It happens pretty much any time any long running popular series ends, theres always an uproar about the ending because it never lives up to what people have built in their heads.
Posted 02:02pm 21/3/12
Posted 02:06pm 21/3/12
Posted 02:35pm 21/3/12
Mass Effect 1-2 had official cannon, for example, Wrex dies on Virmire. That is cannon in the mass effect universe, but not in my save game. (As if you wouldn't save Wrex) Bioware can have their "ending" as cannon but that should not stop them from adding other endings. It is afterall the last Mass Effect game with "Shepard" in it. I hope there are more ME games to come.
I still have not finished the game but I am close.
Posted 02:45pm 21/3/12
I wasn't implying they were? But the thing is everyone has their own Shepard and their own idea of how things should end, so whatever Bioware did, they're not going to live up to those expectations.
I'm not saying the ending was perfect, it had a lot of holes in it, but that doesn't mean I think it should be rewritten. I'd like some DLC that maybe fills in some of the holes and fleshes things out more, but I think they should stick to their guns and keep the ending the way it was written.
I'd like to see some DLC maybe that shows what the Normandy was doing after it dropped Shepard off on Earth and how it got into the situation it was in during the ending cutscene for example. Theres stuff like that they could do which would fill some of the holes in the ending and flesh it out, without actually changing the ending.
Posted 02:51pm 21/3/12
Posted 03:09pm 21/3/12
Posted 03:24pm 21/3/12
Posted 03:31pm 21/3/12
Pretty sure you missed the point entirely.
+1 to that
I mean give them choices within the confines of the narrative, sure, thats one of the benefits of telling a story in a medium like this versus reading a book or watching a film. But its a still a set narrative with a set beginning, middle and end, you don't get to write it yourself or dictate how it ends, you're just along for the ride.
Posted 03:32pm 21/3/12
Posted 04:20pm 21/3/12
"only in a medium lke gameing do the players/readers feel entitled to dictate how the game ends. its stupid to entertain such entitlemen"
Well this is patently ridiculous. Every story telling medium has had similar instances where an audience has been unhappy with an outcome and demanded changes. George Lucas suffered a major backlash when the Star Wars prequel trilogy was released. The TV series Lost was criticised for its ending by a large portion of its viewers. Even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had to whether public backlash after he tried to end his Sherlock Holmes stories.
Also, I have noticed that the word 'entitlement' is being thrown about a lot in relation to this issue. It's not 'entitlement' to be dissatisfied with something you have paid money for, and to ask for something to be done about it. Only amongst the gaming medium is there a notion that we as consumers have no right to complain when we feel strongly about something; or we'll get labelled as 'entitled whiners'.
This is a mindset that we as gamers need to grow out of if we have any chance of being recognised as a legitimate medium by mainstream society.
This article illustrates my feelings on the issue far more eloquently than I ever could:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/
Posted 04:24pm 21/3/12
I read that he tried to do it multiple times and kept bringing him back, that's why he falls to his death something like 3 or 4 times only to come back with a "lol got you, was just fake". Which is strange because how the hell do you fake a fatal fall?
Posted 04:32pm 21/3/12
Just like in those examples you stated, people were unhappy with the ending of Lost, and people were unhappy with the changes George Lucas made to Star Wars, and people were unhappy with the way Battlestar Galactica ended, but its not like they went back and changed it. It is what it is.
Posted 04:32pm 21/3/12
Make the canon ending to your story driven main game suck balls, and then advertise the DLC as fixing the ending of the story for conversion rates to skyrocket.
Posted 04:35pm 21/3/12
Posted 05:00pm 21/3/12
I for one will be sailing into the bay of swashbuckling pirates for this ones release day spoils party.
Posted 05:19pm 21/3/12
Why should they get input into anything? This is what people are talking about when they throw around terms like "entitlement", why do people feel like they have the right to have input into the development of a game? Do you expect into into how a movie is made before you spend your $20 to see it at the cinemas? Do you expect input into how a book is written before you buy it?
By all means complain, criticise and attack Bioware for the ending, but I don't see where people get this idea from that they have some kind of right to get a say in how the game is made. Thats just pure arrogance.
Posted 05:43pm 21/3/12
Is the gaming industry supposed to set up some sort of JCP style process where draft scripts are submitted (look out, spoilers!) and voted on by a bunch of game designer hacks? What happens if nobody is happy with any of the endings?
Completely ridiculous.
Posted 05:47pm 21/3/12
Even if I still hated it though that doesn't give me the right to tell bioware how to end their story. Their game, Their story, Their universe to do with it what they want to. Will be interesting to see what DLC comes out for this though.
Posted 05:47pm 21/3/12
Posted 05:50pm 21/3/12
You obviously didn't hit up that trayner chick as femshep since you 2 root in the shower
Posted 05:59pm 21/3/12
Posted 06:11pm 21/3/12
Posted 06:41pm 21/3/12
I thought the ending was fine except for the Normandy plot hole. That was the only thing that didn't make any sense. Some people wanted their "War Assets" to actually mean something? Throughout the whole game you're told that the Reapers have been carving up everything and even when you do get your whole galactic allied fleet together and fighting on/above Earth it's still not enough to defeat them.
Posted 07:34pm 21/3/12
In the end they can b**** and moan about it on both sides of the debate, in the end both sides usually get what they want; x content/retcon and more money.
With all that said i did enjoy it, granted i would've made the various endings more defined.. changing the colours doesn't count, more akin to what the original fallout's did, I don't think any player driven story has done it more eloquently.
Posted 07:37pm 21/3/12
There's a ton of evidence to show that it was indoctrination.
Posted 09:11pm 21/3/12
Posted 09:54pm 21/3/12
They already are giving it to charity.
Posted 10:20pm 21/3/12
Yeah, thats a fair cop, I was expecting to be called out on that :) I was probably over-exaggerating a bit by saying it was arrogance, was just trying to make a point. I just think its a bit much for the players to expect they should be allowed to dictate to the direction the game should go in, that just seems to be overstepping the bounds of the creator-consumer relationship a bit. I mean feedback is all good, but I would imagine its mostly useful regarding balance issues like ZeeDoktor was saying, or issues with game mechanics (like how they tweaked the scanning in ME2 after people complained about it).
And yeah, about the War Assets, I was just thinking about this today and I reckon it might have gone down better with people if things like the galactic readiness and the Effective Military Strength (the score you build up from your war assets) was actually hidden from the player. I think it ended up feeling like your choices were devalued and you can end up feeling the only difference between option A or option B is how much war assets you get and how much your EMS goes up by. I think if it was instead not visible as a number to the player and tracked behind the scenes, it wouldn't pull them out of the narrative so much. Like they would judge their successes and failures by the effect it actually had on the galaxy and not the effect it had on their EMS score. And when you get to the end and different stuff happens, it would be like "Oh yeah, such and such a thing happened because I kiled the geth instead of saving them" rather than "Oh yeah, this happened because my EMS was under 5000". It would have made the choices feel more important I think, even if behind the scenes it was still tracked using a EMS type of system, I don't think it should have ever been visible to the player. Like if you wanted an update on how your readiness was going and what your military strength was like you could call Admiral Hackett or something and he could be like "With the Salarians on our side we're now holding back the reapers in a few territories and winning some key victories" rather than just going to the War Assets console and seeing your score is now 4371 or whatever.
I understand why they did it the way they did, essentially so you could see the impact multiplayer has on your single player game, but I think overall it hurt the game more than it helped.
Yeah, I didn't really know what was going on, just someone elses post made it sounded like they were using it as leverage against Bioware in a "If you do what we want we'll give this money to charity" way, which is a bit of a d*** move. But if they've already donated it mad props to them! Respect where respect is due
Posted 10:37pm 21/3/12
People are arguing about how their choices didn't matter etc.. etc.. they shaped the *entire* game up to that point. Ultimately it put the choice of ending back into the players hands and they chose what they wanted to do. I sat there for at least ten minutes deciding what to do - all while saying to myself "Holy f***, holy f***, holy f***".
Meh, it followed exactly how their convo tree worked, a paragon, a neutral and a renegade end.
Posted 11:42pm 21/3/12
apparently there's 16 or so endings. wtf
Posted 12:07am 22/3/12
Posted 10:45am 22/3/12
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
Posted 10:45am 22/3/12
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
Posted 11:41am 22/3/12
It's like buying your own birthday present.