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R18+ Discussion on Sunrise
Steve Farrelly
Sydney, New South Wales
3495 posts
Seamus Byrne, head honcho of Gizmodo and Kotaku Australia (and stand up guy, in our books), appeared on Sunrise this morning alongside Damian Tudehope of the Australian Family Association, to talk about the censorship board's upcoming revisit of the potential need to pull videogames in line with the rest of country's film and literature classifications, by introducing an R18+ rating.

On the program, they used Call of Duty: Black Ops as a key example of a game that should be deemed inappropriate to anyone under the age of 18 where Seamus and Damian offered arguments both for and against an R18+ classification for games.

Seamus is probably the best advocate for the need for an R18+ rating, and it's easy to see that groups like the Australian Family Association have a malformed opinion of the deeper issue; which is that obsession with the concept of "violence in videogames" overshadows a clear need to redefine our rating system as a whole, to bring it into modern context.

Watch the video embedded below.

12:15pm 16/11/10 Permalink
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12:15pm 16/11/10 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
9136 posts
Kochies mo is terrible
other guy is a douche for trying to put words into Seamus' mouth re: "what he really wants is the game banned"
12:21pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Steve Farrelly
Sydney, New South Wales
3497 posts
yeah I noticed that too teq, poor form - Seamus was well-composed and well-informed on the topic, I think he did an awesome job
12:29pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
15604 posts
I had to laugh when the Family Association guy was like "I came home and my kids had this game, and I didn't know they had it". Well thats the crux of the problem isn't it?
12:32pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Steve Farrelly
Sydney, New South Wales
3498 posts
nevermind his kid is 24 or whatever
12:37pm 16/11/10 Permalink
MatchFixah
Brisbane, Queensland
4382 posts
The older bloke said this is the 8th in the series...i thought it was the 7th?
12:39pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
983 posts
Great job there, I was not surprised that the older guy would act as he did, that was obvious when they said he was from the family association.

Shamus nailed it I thought, had the right answer all the way.

The older bloke said this is the 8th in the series...i thought it was the 7th?

Yea it is, just shows his lack of knowledge.
12:42pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Mr.Bumpy
Melbourne, Victoria
364 posts
The Familiy Association guy being surprised by the amount of violence in Call of Duty: Black Ops shows clearly that he's not informed of the kind of content in some games released this decade, or this year for that matter.
12:48pm 16/11/10 Permalink
tspec
Melbourne, Victoria
2928 posts
Bringing up the removal of the MA15+ rating all together in favour of an 18+ rating was such a dopey suggestion, I'm surprised I didn't hear a facepalm sound coming Seamus when he mentioned it. Agreed Seamus did a great job there though, I was starting to think he wasn't going to get much of a word in given Tudehope was rambling on a bit in the first half on the video. It's somewhat conforting to know someone like Seamus is on the frontlines with this topic.
01:34pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5873 posts
desensitized kids.

What a f*****g noob. How about hundreds of thousands of years of kids watching beheadings, hangings, tribal punishment/ war etc.. what a f***** joke and a weak excuse for not bringing in 18+

the push isnt for more violent video games, its for more adult themed video games you f***** bookworm wanker

Pretty sure leasure suit larry was banned, and there is no violence in that what so ever.

that damian guy is a f***** idiot and koshie should just give up trying to b hip with his mo
01:50pm 16/11/10 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
643 posts
I had to laugh when the Family Association guy was like "I came home and my kids had this game, and I didn't know they had it". Well thats the crux of the problem isn't it?


Hahaha, reminded me so much of that southpark episode where death is following the kids around and they call the parents but the parents are too busy getting terrance and philip banned.
01:54pm 16/11/10 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
3083 posts
What an idiot the family party guy is.

Its like he lives in some alternate reality were kids play hopskotch and watch cartoons.

His suggestion that there should only be a PG and an R18 ratings is so stupid I dont even know were to start.
02:01pm 16/11/10 Permalink
casa
Brisbane, Queensland
4112 posts

He should have bought up the fact that religion is the single highest reason bar nothing there are WARS which kill THOUSANDS of people every year, however we don't ban religion, do we?

Well at least I think he didn't as I can't watch Sunrise purely due to my anti-channel-sevenism and that f**ot kosh - if some how I could break his voice box and melt his smug face with a blow torch, rendering him a media paperweight - without causing him serious harm (I am, after all, not a violent computer nerd), would be awwwwwesome.

last edited by casa at 14:18:32 16/Nov/10
02:12pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2067 posts
just finished my last psych test today.

Part of the content was the agression formation through observation. Studies were done which displayed watching TV makes [younger people] aggressive.

So wheres the ban on R18+ TV and vidoes?
02:17pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Door
Rockhampton, Queensland
341 posts
I can make a study which joins two things as well. Maybe I'll create a study comparing a child's lack of socializing to anti-social behaviour. I bet the results are the same. There's a new bulls*** 'give us more money' uni study every second.
02:21pm 16/11/10 Permalink
DEVDOGG
Melbourne, Victoria
17 posts
i think the guy from the family party needs to be updated along with the rating system, they both base there decisions on society from 30 years ago. also he mentioned that his youngest son was 24, he is quite possibly not connected to today's teenage community and i think that he was the wrong person to be asking, i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about.
02:26pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Wishbone
Sydney, New South Wales
33 posts
The Family Assoc Damien guy is a fool. Saying an R18+ rating on games in Aus will encourage more violent games. Typical small minded man - Are not pretty much ALL the mainstream violent games made outside Aus?

Activision will be like "Oh BTW that tiny, tiny little market called Australia just gave the thumbs up for a R18+ rating. Oh goody now we can publish all the extra violence we have been leaving out !"

At least Sunrise was taking a proper stance on the subject as well.

Also DEVDOGG "i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about." +1
05:05pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
985 posts
i think the guy from the family party needs to be updated along with the rating system, they both base there decisions on society from 30 years ago. also he mentioned that his youngest son was 24, he is quite possibly not connected to today's teenage community and i think that he was the wrong person to be asking, i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about.

Worth clearing up that he said his 24 year old son had Black ops and he asked him about it, he did say that he did not want his 15 year old son playing it. Just to be clear.
05:09pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Resonate
Brisbane, Queensland
507 posts
With the sheer amount of demented s*** their kids can access on the internet, violent games should be the least of their worries.
05:23pm 16/11/10 Permalink
grug09
14 posts
The "other side" of this argument never really seem to grasp the concept of what gamers who support an 18+ scale are saying. Its always the same "they just want more violence in games" argument.

The 18+ rating allows games to scale reasonably, a game that is popular, but excessively violent gets rated MA15 here, yet the same game is rated 18+ in other countries, this opens up a door way for poor decision making by parents; and in turn makes the games industry look bad for marketing to children, grossly violent games. The system is broken, and its the broken system that is to blame for not making parents openly aware of what games are, and are not suitable to their children.

Seamus made some excellent points, but when compared to Damian, who just continued to put words in his mouth, he was too timid on the issue. Seamus had an open opportunity to ride home the fact that we're not asking for more violence to be allowed, we're asking that adults be able to enjoy adult mediums of entertainment, with out being restricted because a poor system prevents propper parenting decisions.

Sorry for the rant, and repeating myself.
05:33pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Darkhawk
Melbourne, Victoria
6 posts
Woah, I thought Micheal Atkinson was illogical and manipulative! I seriously think that old fart Seamus (Aran?) did more to increase the chances of R18+ being passed than Damian's clear, concise and logical arguments. Also what kind of "expert" refers to games as "video's"? Thanks Seamus, you have just scored a big win for us adult gamers and parents that are just after a fair and protective system for everyone!
05:49pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Rohan
Sydney, New South Wales
101 posts
you got the names mixed uup, dude.

Yeah, the Damian dude seems keen on putting words in Seamus' mouth. Which is what we've been seeing when it comes to people speaking out about the net filter or about introducing the R18+ rating.
05:52pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5876 posts
on a side note anyone seen the need for speed ads with johny drama on them?
05:55pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5877 posts
f*** yer sick there are heaps here

wow the car list for the new one is f***** pathetic, change the list in the last 4games much?

last edited by Sc00bs at 18:00:08 16/Nov/10
05:56pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
15608 posts
I don't think Seamus attacked the "we'll be opening Australia up for more violent games" rhetoric that the other guy was spouting, because the fact of the matter is, those violent games are ALREADY HERE. Its not like theres going to suddenly be more, it just means what is already here, will be classified appropriately.
06:37pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Nerfington
Brisbane, Queensland
1409 posts
Think the more important issue at hand is why is this guy's 24 year old son still living at home, and what kind of incapable adult has this man created? What does it say about the lack of credibility and over-abundance of righteousness from the Family Association if they use this guy as their representative?

To put it in perspective, I'm 24 and have been independent for 7 years, and would squirm at the idea of being treated like or thought of as a kid by some nosey parent, because that's not what I am. By all accounts it sounds as though this guy has not raised an independent adult.

tldr; arrhhh righteous unworthy pricks demanding capitulation
07:24pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
15611 posts
My first thought was, if this guy's 24 year old son lives at home, with a console, and Black Ops, you just know the 15 year is playing it when dad's not around.
07:31pm 16/11/10 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
6453 posts
3 important things we should all take from that movie;

@2:05 we have a new Michael Jackson in the background doing the moon walk.
@3:49 we can clearly identify the game is boring and it's more fun using your iPhone
The arguments from Seamus were all logical for us but it needed to be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator and he has to be more emotional to get the point across.
07:31pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Eorl
Gold Coast, Queensland
511 posts
Wow. Your 24 year old son is playing Blops and your outraged? The heck? Do you treat your 30 year old son like his 9? Seriously, Family First is a joke excuse for a party.
09:05pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Ven
Perth, Western Australia
3 posts
Good job going onto national TV representing your family association without doing 1 second of research, just spouting your narrow minded opinion. Being someone who works in retail, an R rating would be a godsend for informing parents of what games are suitable for their young teen. Most parentsIi sell games to wish for a better rating system than we currently have. It needs to change with the changed market that exists today.
09:32pm 16/11/10 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
627 posts
He should have bought up the fact that religion is the single highest reason bar nothing there are WARS which kill THOUSANDS of people every year, however we don't ban religion, do we?


Religion should be R18+, that way children aren't exposed to it. Let Adults decide whether they want to be religious or not.
10:26pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5882 posts
then what would schools push on kids
12:20am 17/11/10 Permalink
MoSFXx
Gold Coast, Queensland
174 posts
Anyone else find Mel hot?

I just wish they'd hurry up with the political bulls*** it's not going to make things worse!
12:24am 17/11/10 Permalink
DeaDMeaT
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
7 posts
1 word Mr Family dude...

OWNED!
03:45am 17/11/10 Permalink
Esotericthief
Newcastle, New South Wales
44 posts
Agree 100% with HurricaneJim.

Can't wait for an R18+ rating to be in. I can't stand having s*** cut out of games just so we can play them or having them not sold in Aus altogether.

Family guy was a douche. He has a generalized argument of the topic. No actual or some what factual knowledge to go on. Our guy needed to argue the point more. Needed to add emotion and he should have called family guy on his bulls*** generalized ramblings. He could have met those ramblings with actual facts and/or statistics and OWNED family retard.

I want a little (and I mean only a little, not huge amounts) more gore in some of my games. Boobies couldn't hurt either.

Bring on R18+!
08:54pm 17/11/10 Permalink
Mr.Bumpy
Melbourne, Victoria
365 posts
Chances of R18+ rating introduction before Duke Nukem Forever release? Fat chance, probably...
01:41am 18/11/10 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
2341 posts
I just can't seem to wrap my mind around the idea that having an R18+ rating for games would somehow expose children to worse games that there are already. Someone tell me how they make this leap please because it's the type of thing where if you think about it for more than 5 seconds, you start the bleed out of your nose and have to lay down.

I would imagine that if parents saw a giant, f*** off "R18" rating on the box it would twig that this game isn't ment for little timmy at home who is only 13. Also I can't see how games could any worse than what they are now. I mean games these days are always filled with violence and swearing just like any movie. S*** I still think that TV has a far worse influence on kids than what any game could. How many young girls do you see these days dressing like hookers because it's what f***heads do on TV?

Short of the invention of true, full VR or a game being released where you are a serial killer and you get to stalk, murder and evade police, there really won't be much more gore or violence than what you can find in any movie or game already.
02:00am 18/11/10 Permalink
Mr.Bumpy
Melbourne, Victoria
366 posts
It's interesting, and unsurprising, how the perceptions and expectations of what the introduction of an R18+ rating would do, from both sides of the discussion, differ.

From the gamers perspective, we expect that very limited, if any, additional games will come to the Australian market as a result of the introduction of an R18+ rating. More so, we would see some future mature games, possibly existing ones, rated more sensibly as R18+ (like they are in other countries like the US and UK) under a new ratings system, that would have otherwise been rated as MA15+ under the current ratings system. Also, games intended for a mature and adult audience (18+) would be released in Australia unaltered under a new ratings system, not unlike other mediums (film, books, etc.), instead of having minor alterations so that they can be released in Australia under the highest allowable rating of MA15+ under the current ratings system, permitting the adult game to be purchased, viewed and played by children 15 years and over.

Judging from the responses so far to the debate from politicians and opponents such as Damian Tudehope, their perception is that the introduction of an R18+ rating would open the flood gates for highly violent and sexual games to reach our shores and that these games would be easily accessible to minors and children. According to one Australian politician, these future R18+ rated games would include Japanese stalk and rape games such as Rapelay. An extreme example at best considering the game is banned in most nations (such as the US and the UK) and is only sold in Japan (though, is no longer available).

I'm sorry if I'm biased, but I must say from my observation that defenders for the introduction of an R18+ rating (and revision of the ratings system, itself) usually base their arguments on censorship and consistency as well as an understanding of the current ratings system and games in general, whereas opponents for an R18+ rating often lack research and knowledge of video games currently available and their arguments are always founded on fear.
03:45am 18/11/10 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
30659 posts
Anyone else find Mel hot?


mel is hot as for a big girl, she'd be close to 6ft tall too

and nat goes pretty good

3way there please
08:11am 18/11/10 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
9083 posts
Shamus nailed it I thought, had the right answer all the way.


Family First seemed to have come off looking incompetent.

ta for the vid
08:59am 18/11/10 Permalink
Fnorg
1 posts
Also :"A push for R18+ ratings is a push for more violent games!!!!"

as if the gaming industry is going to say: Oh look Australia has a R18 rating about 100 years behind everyone else, better start making our games extra violent now!
10:08am 18/11/10 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
2342 posts
According to one Australian politician, these future R18+ rated games would include Japanese stalk and rape games such as Rapelay.


I wish someone would explain to these politicians that this game was released back in 2006, only released in japan, is no longer sold, and that it is avaliable on the internet so anyone who wanted to play this game has no doubt done so already. No one is upstairs in an office, gathered together around a big table like some type of super villain meeting, rubbing their hands together saying "soon... the R18 system will be pushed, and we can flood australia with japanese sex games MUAHAHAHAHAHA".

I hate seeing that game used as an example of why games are bad, because it's such a super extreme type of game in a very specific genre that 99% of the world won't play or have even known about were it not for the retarded feminists who complained about it. Talk about a Streisand effect.
11:09am 18/11/10 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
16509 posts
I love seeing a person's head explode in video games. It makes me fantasize about doing it in real life.
11:13am 18/11/10 Permalink
rider
1 posts
I played my first computer game (Wolfenstein 3d, doom after that) when i was 6 or 7 (22 now). I strongly believe that if you cannot distinguish between a computer game and real life then you got issues. If you cannot distinguish between animated graphic violence and real life violence then you got issues. I rarely ever flinch at the sight of computer violence but when i see violence in real life i can feel my stomach clench thats fairly normal right ?
If you think violent computer games makes people violent, your basing your assumption on the fact that a human is just an empty vessel who is ready to emulate whatever he sees in a computer game.
I think that the governments take on 18+ games is an insult. They think we are not mature enough to play our computer games even when we are over the age of consent and that pees me off!
11:15am 18/11/10 Permalink
grazer
Brisbane, Queensland
34 posts
Anything the older guy said with respect to his "kid" has been invalidated by his "kid" being 24. Seriously wtf? He's still monitoring and trying to protect his 24 year old adultescent?
11:45am 18/11/10 Permalink
Jim
Ireland
12034 posts
haha that makes me think of buster in arrested development
01:13pm 18/11/10 Permalink
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