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Post by Joaby @ 12:56pm 02/10/15 | 41 Comments
You might recall a few months ago that Derek Smart (yes that Derek Smart) found himself dumped as a backer of Star Citizen following some self-aggrandizing -- yet strangely pointed -- blog posts regarding concerns for the game.

Your boy Joabo was one of the few who backed Derek Smart on this, mostly because,
If anyone knows what a space game which is biting off more than it can chew looks like, it's Derek Smart. If smart wasn't already a word in English, we could probably describe creating a Space Game You Can't Possibly Finish as 'Smarting'. And in all honesty, it seems like Star Citizen is Smarting hard.
Most people defending Star Citizen seemed more concerned with attacking the player and not the ball, so to speak, highlighting Derek Smart's many hilarious failures in an effort to discredit him while ignoring what are some fairly relevant concerns.

Those concerns have reared their heads again today thanks to a lengthy, revelatory article on The Escapist featuring comments from many former and current staff members of CIG.

The piece, which you can read in full, sources nine people, apparently none of whom are Derek Smart. And the concerns raised are... terrifying if true.
"$90 million for what he's pitching, even with a competent leadership, you couldn't do," CS1 wrote. "The thing you have to remember about Chris Roberts is that, before this, he hadn't made a game in 12 years. He has no concept of what can and can't be done today with that amount of money, or for a game like this. Chris Roberts hadn't made a game in 12 years, and he was actively ignoring the input of people who have been in and a part of the industry that entire time."
Allegations of toxicity from senior members of staff, massive salaries and rampant scope creep are explored within the article. It's a very thorough piece of reporting in some areas, but it's downright off in others.

A lot of statements are quotes, sourced and all, but some of the most inflammatory claims are un-sourced. Maybe the author got carried away with their own rhetoric in an alarming fashion, but it looks exactly like the old journalist trick designed to give the un-sourced, not quoted parts of the story the same weight as the other elements. It's a special sort of horseshit which has no place in a story like this.

Shady elements of the story aside, there are some strong allegations made using many sources. And Chris Roberts' response takes basically the worst possible tack.

In the 5800 word response, Roberts spends more than half his time specifically attacking the author of the article and Derek Smart. He references tweets and alleges political motivations and spends far too much time attacking the author. Less than half of what he writes actually addresses the claims being presented to him.

Instead of obsessing over the motivations of the author and their connection to Derek Smart, Roberts should have responded directly to the claims (his responses are fine, and valid) and let other people do the rest of it.

For example, another employee named Thomas Hennessy explained his positive experience working at CIG in a post on reddit. Others too have posted their own refutations regarding, at least, the claims of toxicity within the office. There is clearly a lot of positivity for Star Citizen, from backers and staff alike. So attacking people who ask pointed, relevant questions does nothing except lend a degree of authenticity to their claims.

Some will side with The Escapist, others with Chris Roberts and CIG. Based on his response, it's clear that Roberts is tired of responding to posts like these, and it's hard to fault him for it. I remain optimistic yet wary about the reality of Star Citizen's release. Where do you sit?

*Update*
User and Star Citizen fan DAwGia has pointed out the most egregious, inflammatory claims -- those which were un-sourced -- may have been pulled directly from recruitment and company review site "Glassdoor".

Reviews left for Cloud Imperium Games echo claims written in the article on the Escapist, and it appears after some preliminary research that anyone can post a review while claiming to be a current employee at a company simply by signing up to the site. Glassdoor analyses submitted reviews, but according to their community guidelines anonymity is key to their principles. Further, Glassdoor remains neutral 'in all cases of dispute and do not act as the finder of fact', which calls to question what it is they analyse in the anonymous reviews left on the site.

The reviews used were posted days ago and are repeated word for word within The Escapist article, although always phrased as 'it was claimed' and shadily attributed to the actual sources used in the news post. This is why you don't use unattributable quotes in your otherwise (seemingly) well-researched and well-sourced article.



star citizenchris robertsderek smartspacereddit





Latest Comments
Tollaz0r!
Posted 01:11pm 02/10/15
I gave up on this being anything but a convoluted mess. That way, if it turns out to be good, it will be a pleasant surprise.
DAwGia
Posted 01:15pm 02/10/15
We figured out where her "sources" came from that "reached out to her".

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/

Lizzy literally took them word for word from Glassdoor. So much for journalistic integrity. I hope her resume is up to date.
Khel
Posted 01:27pm 02/10/15
I tried reading that reddit thread, but the sheer amount of rabid fanboying and denial was too much to stomach. Honestly, the "Chris Roberts is our messiah and can do no wrong" rhetoric that the fanboy army comes storming in with each time the game is criticised is just as bad as the "Chris Roberts is the devil and its all doomed" stuff. I think the truth more likely lies somewhere in the middle.
Joaby
Posted 01:49pm 02/10/15
Interesting read Dawg. So these are the sources of the most inflammatory claims then. Wow.

Updated the story to reflect the new information.
Enska
Posted 02:04pm 02/10/15
jesus.
I'm not going to pretend to be a fan of the circus that is Star Citizen, but I'm even less of a fan of journo's who deliberately mislead people.
d^
Posted 02:27pm 02/10/15
RIP job and The Escapist reputation.
nickzwa
Posted 02:53pm 02/10/15
> T"his is why you don't use unattributable quotes in your otherwise (seemingly) well-researched and well-sourced article."

Mate. This is why you don't jump on an artical like the original and re post its bold lies and many un credited "truths" that later turn out to have zero actual substantiated truth in them. Your a reporter. Your goal should be to print the unbiased truth. well you picked up a story and re printed its lies. good job on facts checking with that one. you ( seemingly) need a lesson in fair and unbiased journalism. Just bee aware that the origional reporter is likly looking for a new job at this moment.

Seriously. if anyone wants to review Star Citizen development. get off your lazy arse and walk into one of there studios or educate yourself in the development proses a tiny bit. for example. it was claimed that mosy all backer money had been spent. Im hoping there spending my money! as quickly as it comes in!!! Preformance motion capture shoots and server farms are expencive. Infact. If there is a single cent left over thats not spent by thee timee this game goes to full release then I will be displeased. Now if, like some people you think that itds going to take another $100 million to finish... then there are investors and f***tons more concept sales(preepair for wavee 5. smaller ships now that all the big ones are concepted) . Star Citizen fans are not stupid. We do do stupid things just to prove a point though. For example. There is currently a thread on reddit where SC backers are buying eachother more ships. Why? because there trolling reporters and smart fanatics. SSo you see there are fanatics on both sidess. The SC ones are flying around in a very soon to bee universe simulator while the smart croud are smarting over another PR loss. Its helerious to see people with clearly negative agenders try to take down CIG. and why do they do it? mostly jelousy. There are a few backers who have been permanantly banned for being horrible humans. there the ones saying SC is going to fail. co if it dosnt they have to live with it being awesome...that they got banned from. like smart. hes been pissy with Roberts since Roberts made wing commander. have you seeen how smart cravees any attention, even negative? Youve entered an old war mate.
Joaby
Posted 03:17pm 02/10/15
I'm confused friendo. I'm on your side? Throughout the article I call to question the various shady unsourced elements because they don't stand on their own, and when they are revealed to be reprintings of anonymous sledging from a job review site, I made it clear in the article.

Fair and unbiased journalism involves reporting on the information at hand. When there was questionable information, I called it into question. That's pretty much the extent of my burden isn't it?

I'm not sure how you've read the sentence "I remain optimistic yet wary about the reality of Star Citizen's release." and decided I'm out to see it fail but you aren't really doing much for the reputation Star Citizen fans have of being rabid lunatics.
d^
Posted 03:35pm 02/10/15
This guys spelling is atrocious...
Khel
Posted 03:36pm 02/10/15
There is currently a thread on reddit where SC backers are buying eachother more ships. Why?


Because they have far too much disposable income and/or are far too easily parted with their money? I'll give Chris Roberts and his company credit for one thing, they sure nailed the formula for sucking money out of cashed up geeks. People must have spent hundreds, thousands, maybe even tens of thousands by now on stuff that not only doesn't physically exist, but doesn't even digitally exist yet. This is like the next level beyond paying for costumes and mounts and stuff like that in games, this is paying for digital goods that don't (and may never) even exist! Its genius really.
Enska
Posted 03:49pm 02/10/15
holy s*** reddit let its guard down one of the crazy ones escaped.

learn to paragraph motherf*****
Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:24pm 02/10/15
nickzwa seems to be one of those rabid fans, the filthy ones that jump to conclusions super quick get super angry and then fizzle into nothingness.
John
Posted 04:45pm 02/10/15
It really isn't even about whether you believe in Star Citizen or not. These so called "journalists" are personally attacking Chris Roberts, his family, and CIG as a company. Derek Smart has even gone so far as to dox Chris Roberts and his family. You cannot blame Chris Roberts for the kind of response he made. This is in fact his first response to all this drama and the attacks from Derek Smart and other gaming "media", and you can see it in his response just how exasperated and tired he is of all this.

It's sad. It really is. Whether or not you believe in the project, there is a line you simply shouldn't cross. The author of the inflammatory article, Lizzy, clearly made no effort to be objective, it was clickbait and she feels absolutely no remorse for what she did.
Ickus
Posted 04:56pm 02/10/15
I half expected the fun and games to continue, DS stated in one of the blogs that he would give his information which included reliable sources to some media outlet.

I'm guessing the poor girl at escapist was the unlucky person who accepted the information she was given as reliably sourced.

As yet not one has been willing to put their names to any of the inside information claims. Until that happens I don't give much weight to any of the rumors or fear mongering being 'news' articles.

I think CR went into too much detail in his response, he should of kept it more about denying any claims as opposed to DS or other people.

PS: Given the circumstances the title of this article is a bit click baity IMO.
Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:58pm 02/10/15
Hay John,

Did you read:


Some will side with The Escapist, others with Chris Roberts and CIG. Based on his response, it's clear that Roberts is tired of responding to posts like these, and it's hard to fault him for it.


The journalism from Ausgamers was just fine. It was the first I've heard of it and I came away from reading the article as, people b****ing about Chris and Star Citizen with dodgy claims, other people refute it.

Not sure why you feel you have to pounce on that.
Joaby
Posted 05:05pm 02/10/15
PS: Given the circumstances the title of this article is a bit click baity IMO.

Yeah, back when everything looked to be on the sideways and up it seemed like an alright title but now it seems off.
Tepid
Posted 05:33pm 02/10/15
i dont know how it's gonna turn out, but i do know it's gonna be funny from the sidelines.
twenty1
Posted 05:50pm 02/10/15
I can see Nickzwa typing that post as fast as possible, spilling a drink over his keyboard and still powering through, ignoring mistakes and the complete idiocy of whats coming out of his brain then finally finishing and being out of breath and then fainting.
Tanaka Khan
Posted 06:36pm 02/10/15
Because there's nothing suspicious or dodgy about a bunch of brand new accounts with 1 post starting up on the forum taking sides and making biased accusations
Bill.From.Finance
Posted 09:14pm 02/10/15
Because there's nothing suspicious or dodgy about a bunch of brand new accounts with 1 post starting up on the forum taking sides and making biased accusations


Rugby League fans one day, SC fans the next. Joabs doing his best to bring in new members haha
Thormach
Posted 10:44pm 02/10/15
You don't actually have to read any of the reddit post to see that the entire Escapist article is a joke. At the top of the reddit article they have a link to glassdoor.com where all of the quoted responses from "Anonymous Sources" can be found word for word and all of the glassdoor.com sources were posted in the last week. Anyone can go on glassdoor.com and write anything they want about any company they want.

"Just because you read it on the Internet does not make it true" -- Abraham Lincoln
Enska
Posted 11:03pm 02/10/15
Thanks for pointing that out captain, we all had no idea that was the case..
Viper119
Posted 11:33pm 02/10/15
They need to spend all those millions, so hardly surprising if the exec team are taking ridonk salaries. Not really that in the wrong either, the company can spend the money as it wishes, there's no real terms between the backers and the company other than delivering a product of some description.
Xeper
Posted 01:00am 03/10/15
3/10

Let me know when the games done.
Zenmaster
Posted 01:11am 03/10/15
The old TOG clan has dumped over $100k into it.


I've left it and that online group for now.


I don't like games that I can't admin.


I don't have time for people who don't listen when I am giving them advice that they paid for.


Whoop
Posted 08:50am 03/10/15
The old TOG clan has dumped over $100k into it.

That's because TOG are old and insane and probably all suffer from some kind of mental illness. Which exactly why I should join!
nings
Posted 12:35pm 03/10/15
I don't like games that can't be played, this seems like one of them.
Ickus
Posted 11:53pm 04/10/15
Its fine... CIG can just threaten to sue them if they don't retract their stuff up...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Looks like my comment "I'm guessing the poor girl at escapist was the unlucky person who accepted the information she was given as reliably sourced." may of been pretty accurate given other media outlets were offered it and did not deem it worthy of being published.
Viper119
Posted 08:50am 05/10/15
That is without a doubt one of the more ridonkadonk legal letters I've ever read, and I've read a few! At best it's a mild slander case and they'd have to publish the retraction, hardly worth going to court over - though I do suppose they need to spend those millions!

Does seem like an over the top response if they're done no wrong, generally you just let your actions speak for themselves, though I appreciate the issue of a minority of unhappy ex-employees causing trouble for an otherwise happy ship.
notgreazy
Posted 11:31am 05/10/15
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahah at all the fanboys who have popped their ugly heads out to slam Ausgamers article that clearly slams The Escapist article. Read the above article before posting you butthurt retards.

I hope you enjoyed wasting your money and giving Chris Roberts a nice pay check to create nothing. If anything does come out it will be horses*** and I hope to see the day when you cry a little bit. Hopefully you will learn from this mistake.

Can't wait to see this implode and the inevitable class action lawsuit. I hope nobody kills themselves after all this is done and dusted becuase... geez man 100k? WHAT.
Raven
Posted 11:57am 05/10/15
3/10

Let me know when the games done.


This is a Chris Roberts game.

Basically... could be 2018, maybe 2019.

Hell, look at the way the original Wing Commander game were almost forcibly released.
trog
Posted 01:01am 06/10/15
Entertaining write up from legal blog Popehat about the legal threats going on here. What a clusterf***.
Tollaz0r!
Posted 12:28pm 06/10/15
What a cool blog! Added.
PornoPete
Posted 12:51pm 06/10/15
Yeah it was a good read. He has a bunch of interesting stuff on there.
Phandaal
Posted 01:27pm 06/10/15
Another sloppy piece of take-down "journalism" based on innuendo and bruised feelings.

Whether this game succeeds or fails, won't come down to these tired snipe-pieces.

Thanks for wasting my time joaby.
PornoPete
Posted 01:40pm 06/10/15
I'm really struggling to see how this is take-down journalism.

Seems like its fairly balanced to me.
ravn0s
Posted 02:18pm 06/10/15
looks like the escapist is double downing on their article.

The Escapist, notwithstanding Cloud Imperium Games' notice and posting, stands by its coverage of Star Citizen and intends to continue to investigate the developing story. Since publishing our original stories, we have been contacted by, and are currently interviewing, additional sources corroborating a variety of the reported allegations.


last edited by ravn0s at 14:18:34 06/Oct/15
Joaby
Posted 03:14pm 06/10/15
Name literally one employee, Escapist. Get one person to put their god damn name to it. Apologise for the trash anonymous quoting. Do this s*** properly.

As much as the lunatic Star Citizen fans make me want to back Escapist on this out of spite, I just can't get over how poorly they put it all together. Seriously if their new interviews are anonymous again, there's not a single thing in the world that would make me believe they're for real.
notgreazy
Posted 05:56pm 06/10/15
I'm really struggling to see how this is take-down journalism.

Seems like its fairly balanced to me.

He means the original escapist article is take-down and he's thanking Joaby for pointing it out.
Another sloppy piece of take-down "journalism" based on innuendo and bruised feelings.

Whether this game succeeds or fails, won't come down to these tired snipe-pieces.

Thanks for wasting my time joaby.

Where there is smoke there is fire and your precious game is burning AHAHAH
Viper119
Posted 07:44pm 06/10/15
That popehat blog is great, thanks! Their article on this palava is spot on.
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