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Post by Dan @ 01:09pm 18/08/11 | 33 Comments
Following a recent cease and desist letter from the Zenimax lawyers -- Claiming that the recently announced "Scrolls" game infringed on Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls trademark -- Minecraft creator and Mojang Specifications studio founder Marcus "Notch" Persson has called for a friendlier settlement:
Remember that scene in Game of Thrones where Tyrion chose a trial by battle in the Eyrie? Well, let’s do that instead!

I challenge Bethesda to a game of Quake 3. Three of our best warriors against three of your best warriors. We select one level, you select the other, we randomize the order. 20 minute matches, highest total frag count per team across both levels wins.
The world would surely be a much better place if more disagreements were solved in this manner. Israel and Palestine on Q3tourney4?



quake 3minecractscrollsthe elder scrollsbethesdamojang





Latest Comments
teq
Posted 01:16pm 18/8/11
hells yes, as long as the 'win' is legally binding, that would be awesome
Trauma
Posted 01:55pm 18/8/11
Obviously he's happy to change the name then. Not that he should have to, you can't claim a word ffs.

Gotta agree with Door on the ego statement, especially after his baseless attack of Euclidion, it might be just me but i don't see what this guy has done that is amazing or interesting...
d^
Posted 02:01pm 18/8/11
Notch is a tool.
Bah
Posted 02:03pm 18/8/11
Notch is becoming an egomaniac.
Yeah it's pretty stupid, he is just milking this s*** for publicity and his fanboys are eating it up.
Llian
Posted 02:11pm 18/8/11
Publicity? Check
Legally binding outcome? Check
Gamers generally happier to see something other than a lawsuit? Check

So long as Bethesda take him up on it, both garner good will. If not, just makes Bethesda look both scared and silly. I mean, they look silly enough already. I mean, scrolls? Really? trademark/copyright or whatever?
Bah
Posted 02:16pm 18/8/11
I dont think bethesda as a company cares about what some neckbearded fanboys think.

Just like in game of thrones where tyrion had nothing to lose because he was f***ed if it was a proper trial, notch has nothing to lose and bethesda has nothing to gain in this situation. Imagine their next investors meeting "we lost the rights to the elder scrolls name because some guy with a small amount of internet fame master baited us into a quake 3 duel"
Mantorok
Posted 02:21pm 18/8/11
...especially after his baseless attack of Euclidion...
I wouldn't call it baseless, he raised valid concerns. There was a complete lack of animation or physics in the Euclideon video, plus a surprisingly high amount of instancing. Euclideon didn't really prove their tech could be applied to games, because they didn't demonstrate features games need.
Compare that to how Epic presented UnrealEngine3:
Eorl
Posted 03:02pm 18/8/11
Notch is a great sand smart indie developer. But he is also a lazy sweed who needs to get of ass and finish minecraft. it has so much potential, and its all going to waste.
demon
Posted 03:08pm 18/8/11
i don't even know who notch is but the call of "scrolls" being bethesdas ip is bulls*** & the call of a quake 3 deathmatch to sort it is fkn awesome.

h.p.lovecraft's estate should sue chaosium who should then sue gary gygax who should then sue bethesda for the use of both eldar & scroll ;p
Mantorok
Posted 03:43pm 18/8/11
You can't trademark the word "Scrolls" but you can argue a strong relationship a word has with your franchise (within the same industry).
What about EDGE and Mirror's Edge? Or Dead Island, Left 4 Dead, Trapped Dead, Dead Horde, Dead Space, Dead Nation, and Dead Rising?
Bah
Posted 03:54pm 18/8/11
Well that egde thing is different because he doesnt actually use that for anything but suing people does he?

And your dead example, well i was kind of on the fence as to whether it would be worth suing people over, but it shows perfectly what bethesda would want to stop by defending their trademark. (not speaking to the legitimacy of it, but now i can't really fault bethesda for trying)
Mantorok
Posted 04:01pm 18/8/11
Well that egde thing is different because he doesnt actually use that for anything but suing people does he?
I wasn't referring to Tim Langdell and Edge Games, but to this:
SwissCM
Posted 04:02pm 18/8/11
The fact that many Elder Scrolls communities call the game Scrolls for short makes this case so easy to deliberate on.

They do? I've only ever seen it referred to as "TES" or by the individual game names (Oblivion, Morrowind etc).
ravn0s
Posted 04:07pm 18/8/11
what swisscm said. i've never seen a single person call them scrolls.
Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:11pm 18/8/11
Pfft , Bethesda should agree to the challenge and Hire the three top Quake 3 players in the world top beat Notch's people into nothing, then sue him anyway.
Raven
Posted 04:12pm 18/8/11
Israel vs Palestine on q3tourney4? That'd be pretty unfair, Israel would just use that bloody CornerShot thing.
Mantorok
Posted 04:15pm 18/8/11
When you think of the word 'Scrolls' in a video game environment - what existing game do you think of?
I'd think of Diablo, because of the scroll of town portal. OMG, Blizzard should sue Bethesda!
trog
Posted 04:29pm 18/8/11
You cannot trademark the word Apple.
hmm, someone should tell Apple that
eski
Posted 04:39pm 18/8/11
Kinda makes sense, nearly all the games that have ever had the word scroll in the title are all elder scrolls games.
Mantorok
Posted 04:44pm 18/8/11
Yeah good one. I think I may create a game called 'Super Portal' because Valve can't argue that 'Portal' is part of their branding since there's one in Diablo.Brilliant reasoning, bro.
Hey, you tried to claim Scrolls made gamers think of The Elder Scrolls, I just gave a perfectly valid example of why you're wrong.

Also, slapping a word in front of someone else's trademark isn't the same as using a word that's part of a trademarked phrase. A better example would be if someone released a game called "Portal Into Another World" before Valve released Portal, should they be able to take legal action against Valve over their use of the word Portal?

Kinda makes sense, nearly all the games that have ever had the word scroll in the title are all elder scrolls games.
No, it's like Coca-Cola trying to stop any other company from calling their product X cola. Except we have Jolt Cola and Coca-Cola, and people can tell them apart!
trog
Posted 04:51pm 18/8/11
What I have typed is not my opinion. There's nothing to dispute.
Man you should get all those people currently undergoing trademark disputes to get in touch with you so they can save all that money on lawyers!

Here's what an actual lawyer said about it:
"Under US law there are a couple of additional grounds (tarnishment and dilution) for famous marks, but whether the Elder Scrolls series falls within the parameters is difficult to see without conclusive market studies," she added. "So at the end of the day, Bethesda would have to spend a considerable amount to push this through litigation as far as collecting evidence to show either tarnishment or likelihood of confusion."

Of course, the lawsuit is being filed under Swedish law, and as Ibrahim explained, "the benchmarks and barriers as to trademark protection differ from country to country." Still, ZeniMax would have to prove that there is a likelihood of confusion between the two games, which could be difficult to do.
I'm not saying what you're saying is not fact, just that it doesn't matter if it is fact, it still doesn't mean both sides can make a case for what they believe. Personally when I hear the word "scrolls" I don't think at all of "The Elder Scrolls" series of games, which to me says that Notch would have a case. It's not like f*****g Mario or something.
Trauma
Posted 05:03pm 18/8/11
I wouldn't call it baseless, he raised valid concerns. There was a complete lack of animation or physics in the Euclideon video, plus a surprisingly high amount of instancing. Euclideon didn't really prove their tech could be applied to games, because they didn't demonstrate features games need.

Well he claimed that Dell was a fraud after money and using old tech that has been around for ages, without him having hands on time with it. I would have thought he would have the intelligence to keep his opinions to himself given his position. He basically went for the throat with no leg to stand on. And in my opinion Dell ripped him apart.
Trauma
Posted 05:06pm 18/8/11
I'm not saying it wouldn't involve a substantial commitment from Bethesda to prove it either. My point is that the case isn't as bs as everyone likes to think.

I think it really is that BS, reminds me of when Cadbury tried to claim the color purple.
Mantorok
Posted 05:06pm 18/8/11
My point is that the case isn't as bs as everyone likes to think.
I don't think anyone was arguing that trademark laws won't allow this to go ahead, just that it's really dumb.
skythra
Posted 05:16pm 18/8/11
I think it really is that BS, reminds me of when Cadbury tried to claim the color purple.

No offence but this is everyday problem. If you see the exact same shade of red and yellow in an arch and square you'd think it's a mc'donnalds.

They were suing because darrel lea were using the same packaging as the cadbury, which does in fact dilute the well known brand name.

Cadbury would have a claim for a defence.

It's not like cadbury owns every purple, mind you. They were trying to stop someone from producing a bar of chocolate to look the same as theirs.

They lost.
Mantorok
Posted 05:55pm 18/8/11
It seems just like the Coca-Cola/Jolt Cola example to me. You expect someone to confuse "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim" with "Scrolls"?
Nerfy
Posted 06:13pm 18/8/11
Did find Notch's Euclidion rant a bit questionable, but think that this is pretty funny.

All in all, I'd wager that not a single person in the world thinks of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim from the word Scrolls. Everybody calls it TES or the iteration title.
Dazhel
Posted 06:57pm 18/8/11
Pfft , Bethesda should agree to the challenge and Hire the three top Quake 3 players in the world top beat Notch's people into nothing, then sue him anyway.


Hire them? Bethesda Softworks/Zenimax own id software, so it's possible that they're already on staff!
Python
Posted 07:12pm 18/8/11
Hire them? Bethesda Softworks/Zenimax own id software, so it's possible that they're already on staff!


Nope! but they do have some guys who play it still! (Quake Live)
demon
Posted 07:27pm 18/8/11
more legal disputes should be settled this way

not just frivolous cases like copyright infringement
Posipi4
Posted 10:30pm 18/8/11
haha now they search overpro gamers that win for them :P Notch has a lot of fantasy :D
iconocast
Posted 11:54pm 18/8/11
DOOR u obviously have some kind of personal issue wit notch.
how is him challangeing betheseda to a quake match over a name immature? u are not intelligent enuf to see what is going on here.
betheseda cant coppywright a word, but they can bully him with fees and red tape. notch is simply makeing light of that and throwing it in there face.
the real school girl antics here are form bethesda who use there lawyers and monney to bully ppl into changeing a "name" because it shares 1 word with there franchise. plz go peddle ur hate elsewhere
iconocast
Posted 04:03am 19/8/11
wait that didnt come out right. i cant edit it either. supposed to be 'are u', not' u are'.
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