Post by trog @ 10:55am 15/04/11 | 81 Comments
While the Australian dollar is strong, it makes sense for Australians to be buying things overseas - and under these circumstances, if you're a gamer you can save a significant amount of money buying games - but don't forget, there might be risks involved in doing that - some physical discs might be region locked, for example, and some publishers might take exception if they detect you purchasing a bunch of games through an international proxy.
We're disappointed that publishers are trying to take advantage of Australians like this. We've tried talking to many of the local branches about it, but they're pretty tight-lipped on the topic and it's hard to get an official statement - it seems obvious that they know what is going on and there's nothing really positive that can be said about it.
While this phenomenon is by no means unique to video games - it happens with a lot of different products - it seems that much more irritating when there's no actual physical product that is getting delivered to you and you're just getting a handful of bits transferred over the Internet.
While the system isn't complete, you can take a look at the results of the first pass we did yesterday. It's a pretty ugly page but does provide a quick overview as to the differences in pricing.
It should be noted explicitly (again) that this is not in any way the fault of Valve Software or Steam - they merely provide the functionality that the publishers require and in fact, Valve price their own in-house games uniformly over all regions. As we understand it, it is the publishers of the game - listed in the far right column, where possible - who are ultimately responsible for setting the price.
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Posted 11:39am 15/4/11
Posted 11:42am 15/4/11
Edit* - The yellow text needs to go, it hurts my eyes :(
Posted 11:44am 15/4/11
Posted 11:47am 15/4/11
Posted 11:52am 15/4/11
At first I was, "what yellow text?" and then I was, "Ohhh".
Posted 11:52am 15/4/11
Posted 11:53am 15/4/11
Really quick suggestion (and it looks easy to implement with what you currently have) is to use Jquery Tablesorter (or similar) so that we can reorder it. Then it would be boss.
Posted 11:56am 15/4/11
Posted 11:58am 15/4/11
Posted 12:15pm 15/4/11
That has been the biggest answer for gamers to basically stick it to the man. I know it's morally wrong and all, but then again, the publishers are doing it to themselves when they are purposefully marking prices up just because we're over here on an awesome island.
Posted 12:15pm 15/4/11
Posted 12:16pm 15/4/11
Posted 12:22pm 15/4/11
Posted 12:29pm 15/4/11
Posted 12:37pm 15/4/11
Posted 01:28pm 15/4/11
great idea....will the final cut be sortable, search enabled?
Posted 01:40pm 15/4/11
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/aausp
I think we peaked at about 165 members at one stage....
Posted 01:40pm 15/4/11
Posted 01:51pm 15/4/11
That has been the biggest answer for gamers to basically stick it to the man. I know it's morally wrong and all, but then again, the publishers are doing it to themselves when they are purposefully marking prices up just because we're over here on an awesome island.
Has it occured to you guys that piracy is part of the reason why te price of games has sky rocketed?
Posted 01:58pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:00pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:06pm 15/4/11
Even back in the SNES days, there were games that occasionally retailed over AUD$100 .
The issue being discussed here is that despite the strong Australian dollar relative to the US, many games still retail for AUD$89 (currently ~USD$93), when they're almost always USD$49 in the USA.
The fact is that games cost more in Australia not because of any actual production or distribution factor, but because the people publishing them here know that Australian gamers will pay more. As long as people are buying them for that price, they'll keep selling them. Just like any other good or service in this country.
Posted 02:06pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:07pm 15/4/11
I tell everyone I know to not buy games in Australia unless the price is at parity with the rest of the world. I haven't bought a game from the Australian Steam store or from a brick'n'mortar store for at least 2 years.
It is absolute bollocks.
Yellow must die.
Posted 02:14pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:23pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:23pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:26pm 15/4/11
ozgameshop is English not Asian. They get the games from the publishers over in England not Asia. ozgameshop is the aussie version of 365gameshop.co.uk
Posted 02:30pm 15/4/11
It's gone up, but I agree, it certainly hasn't skyrocketed.
Some examples I remember:
PC: Lemmings, Wing Commander 1, this is 1990 - we're talking $55. I think even Warcraft 2 was $55, circa 1992. I don't really know where the turning point was to be honest, but I remember Warcraft 3 being $70. Quake 3 was $70 or 80 wasn't it, we're talking 1999 there. Soldier of Fortune, pretty sure that was $70. WoW, 2003-2004, launched at $80, and a then unheard of $15/month subscription fee.
Most GameBoy games started out at ~40 in the early days, more wlel known ones were 50. Zelda: Links Awakening was $60. Mario/Mario Land 2 was $50.
SNES: Most were $80. Street Fighter 2 (1994?) was $90. Super Street Fighter hit that ellusive $100 mark. I think it might have even been $110, or maybe that was just on Master System. Mortal Kombat II was certainly a $100 game. DKC was I can't actually remember.
N64, it was pretty much $100 for launch titles. Pilotwings, Mario 64, Waverace, the three launch titles I got, all $100 each. Zelda OOT was $100. We're talking 1996 here.
Gamecube: Waverace Bluestorm: $90. This is when PS2 and XBox started getting more expensive than GCN. GCN titles were typically $80-90, when XBox titles were 100.
We then got another hit with the 360 and PS3, where the 'normal' price for those consoles rose to $110, $120 for premium titles.
Somewhere over time, the average price of DS games rose from $60 to 70. I never bought a DS until the 3DS for this reason, I thought the games were getting too expensive for what you were getting.
Man, all this crap off the top of my head. No wonder it's such an easy argument to dismiss.
Posted 02:32pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:33pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:35pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:37pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:44pm 15/4/11
Posted 02:47pm 15/4/11
Posted 03:16pm 15/4/11
Trog, do you guys plan on adding links to the prices used in this list? Oh and echoing the yellow being bad on the white background.
Posted 03:23pm 15/4/11
Posted 03:26pm 15/4/11
8-)
Posted 03:27pm 15/4/11
Posted 04:20pm 15/4/11
Posted 04:36pm 15/4/11
Posted 04:54pm 15/4/11
Next time a publisher price gouges us Aussies on a game through steam, give that game a BIG FAT ZERO on metacritic. Low review scores have a very real affect on sales. If enough Aussies do this it will cost them money in lost sales and maybe they will eventually realise that trying to rip people off is not good for business.
Posted 05:03pm 15/4/11
That is by far the worst idea I've seen on QGL today.
Posted 05:17pm 15/4/11
Posted 05:50pm 15/4/11
Posted 06:15pm 15/4/11
Green = $10 - $19 difference
Blue = $20 - $29 difference
Purple = $30 -$50 or more
Just a thought.
Posted 06:16pm 15/4/11
disregard this post
Posted 06:15pm 15/4/11
Express your opinion in a review. We are not powerless!
Posted 06:25pm 15/4/11
http://steamunpowered.eu/comparison-script-steam-unpowered-edition/
Posted 06:46pm 15/4/11
They should be and so therefore, shouldn't this be referred to the DFT? Perhaps we should create a group complaint or something.
Either way, great step in the right direction guys.
Posted 07:29pm 15/4/11
The only thing that is going to change that is if they come to realise that people are no longer willing to pay that extra price or that if they lower the price, enough extra people will buy locally to make up the difference.
At present, you'd be hard-pressed to convince an Australian publisher that they could sell twice as many copies if they halved the price and that's because Australians are just too comfortable paying the inflated prices that they set.
The only way it's going to move is through more public awareness of the disparity and of the (legal) alternatives.
Also, that metacritic idea is terrible. All you are doing is being disingenuous for scoring a game that you haven't played. It's people like that, that make user-ratings such a completely useless metric. Some publishers pay attention to metacritic's approved critic ratings, but there is no way that anyone in publishing worth their paycheck pays any mind to the user score.
Posted 07:28pm 15/4/11
But they have legitimate excuses for charging more for the physical product sold in Australia through retail outlets. Buying through steam is an overseas transaction and therefore beyond the jurisdiction of the Dept of Fair Trading.
Posted 07:29pm 15/4/11
Posted 07:49pm 15/4/11
Posted 07:57pm 15/4/11
Posted 07:58pm 15/4/11
Posted 08:09pm 15/4/11
Looking forward to hearing how this goes.
Posted 08:39pm 15/4/11
What I'm talking about is only for downloaded content. Ie, via steam which this thread is about. For this there is NO legitimate excuse to charge us more.
How do you know this? Are you a lawyer? Has it already been in court?
I believe that a breach of the law is being performed by virtue of the fact that Australian consumers are forced to purchase via the Australian online store. Dan, this is the key to the argument. We are forced to buy only from the Australian store. Its not a choice as you put it. We have no choice but to buy in the way they have trapped us into. A few of us know how to setup a VPN and work around their bull s***, but this is not the point.
@ Rottenrobot
If a product is purchased in Australia, online or not, the sale is protected under Fair Trading law. Remember, you are buying (forced to buy) from the Australian store. It is not being purchased from overseas. I think this argument has merit. Its up to the lawyers at the DFT to consider if its one worth pursuing.
Posted 08:47pm 15/4/11
I wonder if this may even be a breach of the Free Trade agreement between AU and the US.!? What does that cover? I dont know of course, just an idea.
Posted 09:01pm 15/4/11
Last time I used the VPN trick it still worked. Basically you load up a free VPN then load up steam and purchase the game. Exit VPN and download the game normally. Done.
Haven't done it in a while cause I live in the UK now so don't have to worry about it for the next few years :P
Posted 09:21pm 15/4/11
P.S. The information presented here is of such great quality, the colour of the font raping my eyes matters little to me. With a bit of creative 'selecting' skills the info is easily defined.
Posted 08:40am 16/4/11
Posted 12:07pm 16/4/11
Posted 12:28pm 16/4/11
Maybe we need to talk to the US Federal Trade Commission about the differential pricing from an American company.
Posted 06:00pm 16/4/11
The differential pricing is the work of several large American game publishers, not valve/steam.
Having said that, it does seem like a bit of a cop-out by steam to say that they can't set their own prices. If that is really the case, then the publishers must have steam over a barrel.
Surely avoiding buying from offending publishers and giving them appropriately bad reviews that highlight the poor value that their games represent would have some effect if it was done by enough people.
In addition, why not make it a point to buy from those who do the right thing and to consider value and fairness when reviewing their games. For example; Codemasters are offering 'Operation Flashpoint Red River' in the UK, USA, and Australia for $45 USD. The fair asking price and the absence of price gouging will quite rightly have a strong influence on what type of review I give it on metacritic when it is released. A similar good example is 'Test Drive Unlimited 2' from Atari. It is $40 USD in the UK, USA, and Australia and it is a good game. I rewarded Atari by buying TDU2 and I wrote a good review that took into consideration the fair asking price and absence of price gouging.
Posted 06:38pm 16/4/11
I understand that you view the metacritic idea as disingenuous for scoring a game that I haven't played.
However, I am not suggesting that reviewers tell lies. I reviewed Shift 2 Unleashed purely on price, and the review made that crystal clear. I do not need to test the product because I am comparing it to itself. $50 USD for American customers vs $90 for Australian customers for the same product. That is a rip off, pure and simple. I do not need to test or buy the game to see that the publisher is trying to price gouge Australian gamers for an additional 80%, over the normal asking price for that item. Most product reviews place importance on the price such as when comparing cars. The price of a corolla compared to a mazda 3 would not be a good example, because reviewing a price gouged car is when you compare it to itself. A mazda 3 that normally costs $25000 compared to the exact same car, from the same shop for $45000. Any motoring journalist could quite correctly write in any publication that the $45000 car (the same car) is a rip-off and give it a low score without driving it. That would not be disingenuous, would it?
Posted 06:42pm 16/4/11
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/is-metacritic-damaging-games-industry
Posted 06:53pm 16/4/11
Posted 07:23pm 16/4/11
Doing stupid things like giving a game a negative review for price devalues the worth of the user score even more than what little weight it already holds. Dragon Age 2 got a hugely negative metacritic score in the user section due to the fact that it cost $10 more for Americans than other PC games and it still sold really well. It probably had some affect on sales for sure, but that was a country with a gaming population many times our own reacting and it was still a successful title. The $10 extra they charged may have even made up for the small loss in sales from people who put weight behind the user scores on metacritic. If people can't rely on something to be accurate then they will stop using it as an indicator.
Posted 07:22am 17/4/11
This discussion is about digital downloads purchased from steam. To say that we can shop elsewhere is irrelevant. Countries such as ours are systimatically price gouged for no legitimate reason. It is not steam that sets the prices. It is the publishers. As paying customers, I and all Australians have the right to be treated with respect.
The point that you made about Dragon Age 2 implies that price is irrelevant and that users who take that factor into consideration in a review actually devalue the user review itself. If that were true, then most most proffessioal reviews of other products such as televisions and cars must all be worthless. I don't think so!
Posted 07:40am 17/4/11
Something along the lines of -1 point for every 15% difference? So those horribly overpriced for no reason games in the 50% area would get -3 points. So a game scoring a healthy 9 but gauging the crap out of Australians would only receive a less then attractive 6. a 50% gouge it totally and utterly unacceptable and should certainly be factored in. The same game with a 10% difference would still get the 9. 10% I think is acceptable to pay for any increases in cost due to releasing the product in Australia.
Be sure to highlight the reason for the removal of points.
EDIT: The ONLY way I will retract my thoughts and pay for games in Australia is if several publishers show us exactly why they are putting premiums on games here. If they can justify it based on increased costs to them, so that the extra 30% or so they are charging us gives them no extra profit then it would be acceptable, however I cannot fathom any reasons for that much of a premium, particularly for a digital product.
last edited by Tollaz0r! at 07:40:10 17/Apr/11
Posted 07:39am 17/4/11
Basically Valve takes a % of every sale on steam. They would be silly to not set the publishers price. Publisher then removes titles from steam... Valve doesn't make the monies.
Just do all you can to avoid paying the mark up. Fairly good chance nothing will change with the pricing but at least you are saving money.
Posted 07:42am 17/4/11
The message that these gamers send publishers is that they will lose money if they price gouge.
That is the only kind of message that will change the behaviour of greedy corporations.
So if Aussie gamers want things to change for them, maybe they should take notice of what American gamers do when they get ripped off.
Posted 10:13am 17/4/11
Will you remember to go back and change your review score when the prices drop?
Posted 10:20am 17/4/11
Posted 10:42am 17/4/11
Holy s***, when they factor in price they base it on the RRP and compare it against other completely different products! You are comparing the exact same product that can be found for different prices at different f*****g stores. EBs sell a game for $90 and JB sell the same game for $70, I guess we had better give the game a negative review guys!
Here is a hot tip, you don't have to buy from Steam, no one is forcing you to.
Posted 11:11am 17/4/11
Posted 11:18am 17/4/11
No wonder I don't bother with s***** sites like meta critic.
btw Shift 2 was a great game and a massive improvement over the first, regardless of price, you f*****g douche Rotten Robot
Edit* - Obviously factoring the price in to the review is fine, but actually scoring just on the price? please.
Posted 12:47pm 17/4/11
It sounds like you are far more interested in maintaining the status quo than helping Aussie gamers.
If user reviews don't matter, then why are you so concerned?
Why are you desperate to convince people that it won't work?
The abusive language is a givaway.
If anyone is disingenuous, it's you.
Posted 07:20pm 18/4/11
So that people can see it, and come back to it.... I had to find it thru the news section...
Posted 09:06pm 18/4/11