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Post by Steve Farrelly @ 12:27pm 05/04/11 | 75 Comments
Sony's recent legal action against hackers for cracking the PS3 to change its operating system has caught the attention of Anonymous, the internet vigilante group who've been in the news lately for supporting such organisation as Wikileaks.

"Your recent legal actions against fellow internet citizens, GeoHot and Graf_Chokolo (Egorenkov) have been deemed an unforgivable offense against free speech and Internet freedom," the group wrote on Annonnews.org. "You have abused the judicial system in an attempt to censor information on how your products work. You have victimised your own customers merely for possessing and sharing information, and continue to target every person who seeks this information."

"Congratulations, Sony," the message opens with. "You have now received the undivided attention of Anonymous."

According to various internet reports, the group have already started attacking Sony in the virtual space, bringing down several Sony sites and even the PlayStation Network. Apparently this isn't enough though, and the group is splintering into higher levels of retaliation.

Scary stuff. For a run-down of just why they're so irked, check out our previous coverage of GeoHot's PS3 cracking.



geohotps3 hackjailbreakanonymoussonyps3





Latest Comments
Vash
Posted 12:35pm 05/4/11
What can anon really do against sony? They probably think they're bigger than they really are.
teq
Posted 12:36pm 05/4/11
they've already taken down the PSN for a while

good on them I say, Sony are f*****g evil
Any
Posted 12:51pm 05/4/11
doesn't taking down psn just negatively impact the people that sony are apparently victimising? Anon want to stop Sony from screwing their customers by screwing Sony's customers??
Steve Farrelly
Posted 01:01pm 05/4/11
Yeah, and now they're Doxing employees - it's a bit silly, they're talking about attacking the judge in the case too, there are more positive ways of protest, personal attacks just take away from the actual issue at hand
gamer
Posted 01:10pm 05/4/11
doesn't taking down psn just negatively impact the people that sony are apparently victimising? Anon want to stop Sony from screwing their customers by screwing Sony's customers??


Sony is a corporation with a sole objective of making profits. Taking down services run by sony directly impacts profits. So yes, I would say they are on the right track.

That's nothing compare to whats coming next, if your reading on their IRC channels.
Vash
Posted 02:59pm 05/4/11
but PSN is a free service... and it would only make customers angry at Anon rather than Sony themselves.
Seems Anon have nothing else to attack but servers.
Hogfather
Posted 03:01pm 05/4/11
but PSN is a free service...

Yup, free!




... for people who purchase hundreds of dollars of SOE equipment and software. Its free as in Battle.net free - you need to buy s*** off Blizzard to play on it.
Vash
Posted 03:04pm 05/4/11
While Microsoft would have you pay hundreds of dollars for their equipment AND charge you for the online service too! In which case i applaud Sony for providing a free network.
Not to mention their hardware is more reliable. I dont understand the hate for Sony. They dont want homebrew on their hardware, big deal? If people want that s*** buy a PC...
DM
Posted 03:06pm 05/4/11
Sony are s**** for never releasing Legend of Mana on the PSN for australia so bleh to them.
Raven
Posted 03:07pm 05/4/11
Anonymous taking it to Sony is a bit like the US removing Saddam from power: I like what they've done, but their rationale and arguments are a bit thin.
demon
Posted 03:08pm 05/4/11
go get'em anony !@#!@ ;p
couldn't happen to a nicer company.
Midda
Posted 03:12pm 05/4/11
Apparently it isn't Anonymous doing the attacks. From the Twitter of KaKaRoToKS, one of the key members of the PS3 Homebrew scene:

On Tuesday 5th April 2011, @KaKaRoToKS said:

Just spoke with the guy from #SonyRecon, he assures me there is nothing like that, no attacks on people and no plans to, ONLY *recon*, gathering information that is already publicly available, in the hopes of finding something incriminating to help in the lawsuit. Anonymous is against violence or threatening/attacking people. He says nothing illegal is being done, and news sites are reporting the information wrong.


http://twitter.com/KaKaRoToKS/status/55122222200795137
carson
Posted 04:23pm 05/4/11
That's nothing compare to whats coming next, if your reading on their IRC channels.

Which is?
Outlaw
Posted 04:37pm 05/4/11
acronyms with angry faces
Dazhel
Posted 11:20pm 06/4/11
BillyHardball
Posted 08:40am 07/4/11
Wow. So Sony took an issue to court, and the court ruled in Sony's favour, and Anon then target Sony? Sounds like their problem should be with the courts...

No one should be supporting what Anonymous do IMO.
Midda
Posted 09:32am 07/4/11
Maybe we shouldn't be supporting you, Billy.
fade
Posted 09:38am 07/4/11
i
Wow. So Sony took an issue to court, and the court ruled in Sony's favour, and Anon then target Sony? Sounds like their problem should be with the courts...

No one should be supporting what Anonymous do IMO.

what Billy said.
trog
Posted 09:44am 07/4/11
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/06/2159235/Anonymous-Launches-Attack-On-Sony

The correct way to "attack" Sony is to stop buying their products
teq
Posted 09:44am 07/4/11
Wow. So Sony took an issue to court, and the court ruled in Sony's favour, and Anon then target Sony? Sounds like their problem should be with the courts...


perhaps if Sony didn't wield so much power because of their mad scrilla ..
It's both their faults, the courts for being able to be bought, and Sony for abusing the system
fade
Posted 09:58am 07/4/11
perhaps if Sony didn't wield so much power because of their mad scrilla ..
It's both their faults, the courts for being able to be bought, and Sony for abusing the system


Yeah, right.

Damn Sony for using the laws to their advantage. and dam the courts for upholding those laws.
myWhiteWolf
Posted 10:49am 07/4/11
I dont understand the hate for Sony. They dont want homebrew on their hardware, big deal? If people want that s*** buy a PC...
the only reason why i wanted a playstation over xbox was to homebrew, now i can't play games if i want to homebrew, I'd demand a refund but they have refused much more high profile requests i doubt I'd have any luck.

this is a company that's abusing the EULA. Its sonys hardware, regardless if i bought it or not Sony have also gone jurisdiction shopping to try and secure a favorable outcome of the case and aquiring data off twitter of ANYONE who has followed Geohot during a set period of time, i wouldn't be surprised if my psn account gets disabled for "security" reasons because i've been following the case. Am i entitled to any recourse or reinstatement? nope, read the EULA.

Even if it was just about the "security" embedded into the software / hardware, this to me would be the same as a car company releasing a car with a type of engine that is secured with a security nut, and then suing people for selling a socket that will allow them to take the engine out.
teq
Posted 10:58am 07/4/11
yeah, Sony played by the rules .. money = justice in this case

anyway

I dont understand the hate for Sony. They dont want homebrew on their hardware, big deal? If people want that s*** buy a PC...


They f*****g TOOK IT AWAY from people that bought a PS3
It wasn't just that they don't want homebrew, the hackers only started hacking the PS3 -after- Sony forcibly removed OtherOS support

I'm looking for the timeline image I saw recently where someone laid out pretty clearly exactly when "hacking" of the ps3 started
xbox360/xbox/wii etc all got hacked within months of being released, *everyone* left the PS3 alone because it had linux support out of the box
only when they removed it did people start looking for ways inside, which is when geohot got involved
BillyHardball
Posted 11:05am 07/4/11
this is a company that's abusing the EULA.

What do you mean by "abusing the EULA" (or for that matter what do Anon mean by "abused the judicial system")?
teq
Posted 11:09am 07/4/11
well, I'd say they're talking about how Sony requested the private information of *every single user* who watched the youtube video on how to hack the ps3 etc
they literally wanted a judge to hand them private records of every youtube user that clicked on it ...
fade
Posted 11:21am 07/4/11
What do you mean by "abusing the EULA" (or for that matter what do Anon mean by "abused the judicial system")?

"by winning" probably
Pinky
Posted 11:29am 07/4/11
Another completely misguided 'operation' by Anonymous.

An EULA is an agreement between the consumer and company. Most of what is in an EULA is largely untested in court. If companies want to put ridiculous clauses in there, then when they are eventually tested in court then those clauses can be found to be unlawful.

There is clear precedent that 'fine print' doesn't mean d*** until it's tested in a court of law. Mobile phone companies have found this out over and over again.

It's all posturing by companies until they are prepared to take you to court, GeoHot style. Then you just have to hope not to be the person that's the test case for their EULA battles.
deadlyf
Posted 11:32am 07/4/11
Aren't annon the bunch of f*****s that stalk and harass young girls?
"Your recent legal actions against fellow internet citizens, GeoHot and Graf_Chokolo (Egorenkov) have been deemed an unforgivable offense against free speech and Internet freedom,"
They certainly think a lot of themselves.
Sc00bs
Posted 11:34am 07/4/11
they are the batman of the intranets
fade
Posted 11:36am 07/4/11
they are the batman of the intranets

by batman you mean the fat nerdy ones at the start of the dark knight that needed rescuing, right?
Pinky
Posted 11:40am 07/4/11
by batman you mean the fat nerdy ones at the start of the dark knight that needed rescuing, right?

Sc00bs
Posted 11:42am 07/4/11


+



+




mix those 3 together and i think that is the vision of batman i get when i think of anon
Pinky
Posted 11:54am 07/4/11
mix those 3 together and i think that is the vision of batman i get when i think of anon

?

Dididoitrite?

myWhiteWolf
Posted 12:08pm 07/4/11
Most of what is in an EULA is largely untested in court. If companies want to put ridiculous clauses in there, then when they are eventually tested in court then those clauses can be found to be unlawful.
really? is it still fair when they are able to chose the judge that's looking into the case?

also. the sort of opportunities the judges are giving sony really don't say much about how fairly the ruling is likely to be.

its been proven in court that bypassing DRM isn't illegal, so what grounds does sony have to run Geohot though the legal minefield? Sony isn't after justice, they are after making an example of someone.

Sony are also threatening to sue anyone who makes the hack publicly available, so by simply stating the master key "46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2" could land you in legal hot water. which obviously had the effect of getting a significant higher exposure to the master key ala Streisand effect.
teq
Posted 12:09pm 07/4/11
do you guys realise what happens to the world without people who stand up for their beliefs/rights?
we sit back in our chairs and let s*** happen, like Sony putting ridiculous clauses in their EULA, changing the EULA after you already purchased the product, then suing you for using it the way you intended to use it when you first bought it ..

and you reckon anonymous are doing wrong? wtf
Sony are EVIL, at least anonymous are doing something
fade
Posted 12:18pm 07/4/11
do you guys realise what happens to the world without people who stand up for their beliefs/rights?
we sit back in our chairs and let s*** happen, like Sony putting ridiculous clauses in their EULA, changing the EULA after you already purchased the product, then suing you for using it the way you intended to use it when you first bought it ..

and you reckon anonymous are doing wrong? wtf
Sony are EVIL, at least anonymous are doing something

yes, Batman
Pinky
Posted 01:34pm 07/4/11
mWW, whether the trial is fair or not is a ver serious matter, I agree on that point.

In principle there is a civilised approach to solving these issues which is the path being pursued by the claimant.

Let Sony threaten. It's typical bluff & intimidation until they actual do something. It's classic 'actions speak louder than words' - an idiom every kid learns.

The only unfortunate thing about this is that the consequences/risk are not equal for both parties. Sony lose the case, they just absorb the legal costs as a large corporation and all is fine and dandy. I don't know GeoHot's personal situation, but assuming he's an average person his age he probably has few tangible assets - little to defend himself with - and if he loses he's probably bankrupt.

So, the deck, as usual, is stacked against the small-fry.
myWhiteWolf
Posted 01:39pm 07/4/11
So, the deck, as usual, is stacked against the small-fry.

And regardless of the outcome, geohots going to face financial ruin, he is in a no win situation.

And so anonymous steps in, hitting sony back in ways that Geohot couldn't. it was a dirty fight to begin with, but its great to see that the hive mind is fight back for the downtrodden.
teq
Posted 02:02pm 07/4/11
exactly, geohot has had some serious scrilla donated to his cause already for legal fees, but sony can throw money at the problem all day and not blink
geohot and his supporters are fighting a losing battle, he now has nothing to lose by continuing his development on the ps3 hacks
deadlyf
Posted 02:14pm 07/4/11
and you reckon anonymous are doing wrong? wtf
Sony are EVIL, at least anonymous are doing something

What is your definition of evil exactly? I would suggest an organisation that delivers death threats to children and digitally attacks the customers of businesses because they don't agree with how that business operates to be kind of on the evil or at the very least, stupid side. On the other hand I'd consider a company protecting it's interests to kind of on the normal, everyday, to be expected side of things. I think I recall sony having backdoor software on their memory sticks once which I think is more along the lines of evil but this? This is just a company protecting it's interests, homebrew obviously no longer fits in with what they want to do with the PS3 to a point where they felt it was better to remove it rather than keep it.

This is about a f*****g console by the way, if you don't want to use it to play games on and watch movies then buy a PC and stop crying like a baby. Treating this as if it's some great injustice is pathetic.
teq
Posted 02:26pm 07/4/11
I never said anonymous aren't perpetrating evil practices too, however they're a rogue group and you can't just lump them all into the same basket
for the most part they're just ddosing people, anyone can claim to be a part of their organisation, hence you can't trust the media when they tell you anonymous did x/y/z

what I know is 100% evil, is the practice sony have tried to use via the courts - obtaining IP information for everyone that simply watched a video
that was a calculated move that would have gone through a boardroom with people actually thinking about it, then instructing lawyers to act upon it

This is about a f*****g console by the way, if you don't want to use it to play games on and watch movies then buy a PC and stop crying like a baby. Treating this as if it's some great injustice is pathetic.


I bought a PS3, it had Linux support
6 months later Sony decided that they would remove this feature of my hardware, that I own
They release a software update that totally f**** the device for the purpose that I bought it for

Imagine if you bought a panasonic TV to hook it up to your computer, then Panasonic release a software update that says you can now only watch video from the HDTV tuner and you can no longer use the HDMI ports

you'd be f*****g pissed, wouldn't you?
trog
Posted 02:24pm 07/4/11
And regardless of the outcome, geohots going to face financial ruin, he is in a no win situation.
The latest on Groklaw is promising in his favour:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110327185437805
exactly, geohot has had some serious scrilla donated to his cause already for legal fees, but sony can throw money at the problem all day and not blink
geohot and his supporters are fighting a losing battle, he now has nothing to lose by continuing his development on the ps3 hacks
Well, if they lose, they will lose SPECTACULARLY. This will be a massive blow to them, and to every other a****** hardware developer that will try to limit you using your hardware in the way that you want.

Sony have invoked the Streisand Effect here something fierce, to the point where now I think it's almost lose/lose for them.

If they win, they lose because it's another nail in the nerd coffin (although I would argue we've all known for years what Sony is like and a company, and frankly if you've bought any Sony products in the last few years you pretty much deserve whatever you get out of it) and they just make themselves a bigger target for every other hacker that is out of US jurisdiction. US tech companies seem to forget, with alarming frequency, that there is an entire world out there filled with smart people that are in countries where laws are not written by lobbyists (... or don't exist or aren't enforced). Anyone serious about hacking their PS3 will not be affected one bit by this case, unless they're noobs and they go on PSN and get banned. Sony is made to look like a bullying megacorp.

If they lose, they lose hard. Their entire system of "control by EULA" is proven useless. Nerd rejoicing and hacks will abound instantly, buoyed by the huge publicity that will follow this defeat not just in geek media but mainstream media. Sony is again made to look like the ineffectual bullying megacorp that they are.

They can't even really cut their losses and drop the case now, because it will show that they know they're going to lose and it would be a PR disaster across the board.

The only thing that can do that wouldn't make them look like total sociopaths is to immediately fire the CEO and board of directors of SCEA, replace them, and hire Geohot as "chief of security" or something, immediately bring back OtherOS, and give all their customers a free Xbox 360 or something as an apology for the bulls***.

If I was in charge of Anonymous and was trying to subversively affect Sony as a company, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time trying to DDOS their websites. I'd be up in there supporting the people writing the hacks, writing and distributing the software that let people take control of their PS3. That would be hacktivism at its best and most useful in this case - show to Sony that no matter what they do in the courtroom, there's nothing they can do to affect the outcome of this case. Plus it directly benefits the end user. Robin Hood that s***, Anonymous - anything else is just petty vandalism!
teq
Posted 02:26pm 07/4/11
edit: double posted
ravn0s
Posted 02:47pm 07/4/11
i thought anonymous stated that they're not behind the attacks. that it's some other group doing it.
teq
Posted 03:43pm 07/4/11
it doesn't matter, as far as the public are concerned they did it, because the public by and large just listen to what the media tell them
deadlyf
Posted 03:48pm 07/4/11
I bought a PS3, it had Linux support
6 months later Sony decided that they would remove this feature of my hardware, that I own
They release a software update that totally f**** the device for the purpose that I bought it for

Imagine if you bought a panasonic TV to hook it up to your computer, then Panasonic release a software update that says you can now only watch video from the HDTV tuner and you can no longer use the HDMI ports

you'd be f*****g pissed, wouldn't you?
Uh yeah I'd be pissed but your examples aren't equal. Linux isn't a key component of a console, the ability to plug in external devices to a monitor is a key component of a TV. Also, I'd get a refund as I bought my TV based on HDMI support.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there is some basis for anger or disappointment, you're entitled to feel cheated over it being taken away as it may have been an influencing factor in you making the terrible mistake of purchasing a PS3 over a 360 but at the same time it doesn't give any justification to breaking the law.

Have you even asked for a refund from where you bought it or called the ACCC to find out if you are entitled to one? IANAL but I believe if a product doesn't do what it was advertised to do then you are entitled to a refund as it is essentially a breach of the contract of sale.
teq
Posted 03:58pm 07/4/11
see I think you're wrong, if the sole purpose of my buying a PS3 was to use it as a cheap linux box - Its no different to my previous example
I did infact contact the ACCC about it (someone wrote a generic letter and just told people to change their name/address etc + send it all in)
they came back and said not their problem, you vs. sony

removing a "feature" from a device, no matter how insignificant or how important, should be very f*****g illegal
not to mention that when someone takes it upon themselves to add that feature back in, they send in the wolf pack of lawyers to sue him into oblivion

I don't understand how anyone could look at that and not think Sony are c****
Enska
Posted 04:02pm 07/4/11
lisen to all the e-revolutionist's.
Half of you spaz's only want to play pirated games, don't be so f*****g high and mighty.

This is about a f*****g console by the way, if you don't want to use it to play games on and watch movies then buy a PC and stop crying like a baby. Treating this as if it's some great injustice is pathetic.


my thoughts exactly.
teq
Posted 04:05pm 07/4/11
it's people like you that make it really easy for c***-like corporations to get away with their illegal bulls***, btw ^
i've got 0 pirate games
BillyHardball
Posted 04:50pm 07/4/11
removing a "feature" from a device, no matter how insignificant or how important, should be very f*****g illegal

This is exactly the point - if it's not illegal, your problem is with the law, not the company that uses the law to their own advantage.
not to mention that when someone takes it upon themselves to add that feature back in, they send in the wolf pack of lawyers to sue him into oblivion

I don't understand how anyone could look at that and not think Sony are c****

Whether they are or aren't c****, they have every right to do it. If the argument is about whether or not Sony are jerks, I don't think anyone disagrees that they are.

Getting back to Anonymous, you can't have a group who decides which laws they don't like and then willingly breaks other laws. I don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.
fade
Posted 05:13pm 07/4/11
Whether they are or aren't c****, they have every right to do it. If the argument is about whether or not Sony are jerks, I don't think anyone disagrees that they are.

Getting back to Anonymous, you can't have a group who decides which laws they don't like and then willingly breaks other laws. I don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.

it's a moral superiority. same you get from wikileaks
myWhiteWolf
Posted 05:54pm 07/4/11
Whether they are or aren't c****, they have every right to do it.
so if they have a right to deny me a service for which i have paid, then there shouldn't be any problem with me denying them a service for which they paid (ie, PSN etc.)

I'm pissed about not being able to install linux on my ps3 and be able to play the latest games that i purchased. I have 0 ps3 wares games. if I had the option of getting my money back, I would, but sony are being c**** about that too. sure, this isn't as bad as physically attacking people, (other than attempting to bankrupting someone to prove a point.) but neither is a DDOS :). sony have given the big "f*** you", so thankfully anon are giving the big "f*** you" back.

I don't particularly condone their actions, but I don't feel that there would be any other way to bring sufficient attention to the issue to do some real damage to sony where it hurts, their bottom dollar.
Scooter
Posted 05:56pm 07/4/11
Hate the Game, not the Player?

Just because the game is flawed, doesn't meant the player has to be a c***.
Pinky
Posted 06:02pm 07/4/11
see I think you're wrong, if the sole purpose of my buying a PS3 was to use it as a cheap linux box

Is that even a good idea? Wouldn't you just buy a PC to do that?

If you want to bang in a nail you don't buy a screwdriver and then complain that it wasn't up to the task.
Scooter
Posted 06:14pm 07/4/11
It would be like buying a Claw hammer for the task, then Bunnings taking back the hammer head and just leaving you with the claw.
Enska
Posted 09:34pm 07/4/11
it's people like you that make it really easy for c***-like corporations to get away with their illegal bulls***, btw ^
i've got 0 pirate games


ah, we are in teqs world, my bad.
teq
Posted 09:50pm 07/4/11
Whether they are or aren't c****, they have every right to do it. If the argument is about whether or not Sony are jerks, I don't think anyone disagrees that they are.


I think you're wrong, I think they've just assumed that they have the power to do it and they'll sue anyone who challenges them
because of their sheer size they'll win, it's a flawed system
Wolfer
Posted 09:45am 08/4/11
"This is about a f*****g console by the way, if you don't want to use it to play games on and watch movies then buy a PC and stop crying like a baby. Treating this as if it's some great injustice is pathetic."

No, this is about consumer rights. When you purchase a product and or pay in FULL for it it should become yours. You buy OWNERSHIP of this product therefore you should be allowed to do with YOUR purchase (in this case being a PS3 console) whatever you want with it, be it play games on it, watch movies, use it as a cup holder, paper weight, throw it out the window, or open it up and expand it or enhance it. If you can't do whatever you want with your purchased asset then you are only RENTING it and that's what sony and the big corporations are traying to do: RENT us the videogame experiences.

I don't know about you but I like to own the things I pay for and if people want to crack their ps3 I say they have the right to do so. It is not a matter to be taken lightly, the more power you give to super capitalist corps like sony over the media and our entertainment the less freedom of choice we get.

Think.
trog
Posted 11:05am 08/4/11
^ what wolfer said

It is a great injustice, regardless of whether or not it happened to you personally. At the end of the day, Sony sold people something with a feature listed on the box, and then removed that feature. If I had a PS3, I would be taking it back to the store, and if that failed, I would be harassing the s*** out of Sony every single day until they took it back.
Hogfather
Posted 11:08am 08/4/11
This is exactly the point - if it's not illegal, your problem is with the law, not the company that uses the law to their own advantage.

So you disagree with civil disobedience?

If the law is blatantly wrong then it should be disobeyed en masse until its made right.
deadlyf
Posted 11:49am 08/4/11
It is a great injustice, regardless of whether or not it happened to you personally. At the end of the day, Sony sold people something with a feature listed on the box, and then removed that feature. If I had a PS3, I would be taking it back to the store, and if that failed, I would be harassing the s*** out of Sony every single day until they took it back.

A great injustice is a Government going to war under false pretences or a dictator killing his own people for standing up to him. Sony disabling Linux support on the PS3 is a $600 d*** move that has practical and legal avenues of recourse, it does not justify illegal activities. I'd be demanding a refund too and I'd expect that I would be entitled to one as the product doesn't do what it advertised it would do at the time of sale. Which I thought entitled you to a refund but maybe someone with a better understanding of that sort of stuff can confirm whether or not it in fact does. If it does I wouldn't be taking no for an answer from the kid behind the counter at EB either.

I'm not against people cracking the PS3 or getting upset about having some functionality disabled, but when people use that as a valid excuse to support what is essential a group of cyber terrorists (forgive the lack of a better term) then it makes them look like a bunch of unreasonable sooks. If instead of trying to take down Sony services and stalking employees they ran a publicity campaign of meme's and viral advertising, which I would think that group would have the capability of doing since 4chan is where that s*** originated, then I'd be able to give them my support but they are acting like a bunch of thugs and aren't really helping the situation.

In fact when have they ever really helped any situation? It wasn't their efforts of DDOSing the parliament website that got internet censorship taken off the cards but the publicity efforts of groups like the EFA that used rational and legal means to spread the message. The efforts of anon in that situation was more justification then anything else as far as the politicians were concerned.
myWhiteWolf
Posted 12:30pm 08/4/11
cyber terrorists (forgive the lack of a better term)
a better term is a hacktivist. and no, i won't forgive you as you're deliberately using emotionally loaded terms to describe a group without noticing scale, intent, damage, reasoning etc...

Sony disabling Linux support on the PS3 is a $600 d*** move that has practical and legal avenues of recourse, it does not justify illegal activities.
don't over simplify this, this isn't just about the $600 d*** move to piss off the masses. if it was this would have occured months ago when they removed linux support.

this is also (and much more importantly) about sony using lawyers to intimidate and force behaviors that are not technically illegal, but are undesirable to sonys bottom dollar. this is about sony using extortion, dodgy business practice and political influence to get their way.

Imagine if today, the court sent you a letter advising that dell is attempting to sue you for millions of dollars because you told someone how to install Linux on their machine. what would that mean to you? you could chose to risk(even if its just a minor risk) loosing everything and represent yourself, or fork out lots of money to try and protect yourself through a lawyer in which you may or may not get your money back.

now imagine that Dell now has access to everyone who's ever contacted you online, your bank account details, facebook etc.

now imagine that dell is requesting that the court be held in western australia, due to some flimsy connection they made in regards to a conversation you had on facebook, even though this isn't the state that the alleged infringement occured.

now imagine that the judge in western australia was well known to be very copyright protection friendly, and was also the judge who allowed dell to access all your personal particulars.

There is nothing legally stopping dell from doing this.

yet you expect that those who empathise with geohot (ps3 owners who are angry at functionality reduction), who was just getting linux to work on his ps3 again, to then believe that going through law is the best way to deal with this unethical behaviour.

it's people like you that make it really easy for c***-like corporations to get away with their illegal bulls***, btw ^
i've got 0 pirate games



ah, we are in teqs world, my bad.
you haven't cited any reference to why you believe that the majority of people who want to install homebrew want to do it to pirate games? and anecdotal evidence > no evidence, so until you do cite some sort of evidence, I'm going to ignore your "hunch" and hope others do to.
teq
Posted 12:35pm 08/4/11
A great injustice is a Government going to war under false pretences or a dictator killing his own people for standing up to him. Sony disabling Linux support on the PS3 is a $600 d*** move that has practical and legal avenues of recourse, it does not justify illegal activities.


It's still an injustice, there are no legal avenues for people to take against this move btw
It's you vs. Sony, they've already showed that they are 100% willing to sue into oblivion anyone who challenges them, so how do you combat that?

As long as no one is being harmed physically I don't see any reason to be against the actions of Anonymous
Sony know they're too big for us to touch them, so when someone does actually figure out a way of hurting them without the requirement of millions of dollars in legal fees, I'm all for it
trog
Posted 12:40pm 08/4/11
As long as no one is being harmed physically I don't see any reason to be against the actions of Anonymous
It's vigilante justice - or just vandalism, really - when its used like this. If they have resources and want to pitch them into battle against Sony, they should do it as I described above (IMO of course) and use it to spread information and software.
teq
Posted 01:03pm 08/4/11
I don't think you can call blocking access to a website vandalism, nothing is changed and nothing has to change back
in fact that only thing that makes a DDoS illegal is the actual intent of the people perpetrating it

the difference between Sony's site being taken offline by Anonymous and Sony's site being taken off line by randoms because some new game trailer came out and they couldn't handle the sudden influx of traffic, is simply the 'intent' to do wrong

if the only way to get a message to Sony is via these means, they have my blessing
If sony weren't such douche bags and would actually listen to their customers (who raged hard when otheros was removed), they wouldn't be in the position

Sony have to assume a large part of the blame
BillyHardball
Posted 01:18pm 08/4/11
So you disagree with civil disobedience?

If the law is blatantly wrong then it should be disobeyed en masse until its made right.

Hogfather, I still don't know where I stand on this issue exactly. If the law is blatantly wrong wouldn't the best response be to proactively fight the law, rather than just disobey it en masse? In any case, I think this is a slightly separate issue, cause the "law" is saying that Sony wins -- not sure how you can disobey that?
Sc00bs
Posted 01:24pm 08/4/11
proactively fight the law

when has that ever helped?

s*** gets done when people make a massive stand, do outrageous things against what they dissagree with
BillyHardball
Posted 01:34pm 08/4/11
Take the R18+ gaming shamozzle at the mo' as an example. The issue isn't being addressed because people continued to import banned games, it's being addressed because of a group forming and lobbying.

Now, you please give me an example of when "doing outrageous things against what they disagree with" has ever changed anything without a more formal protest.
Door
Posted 01:47pm 08/4/11
it's people like you that make it really easy for c***-like corporations to get away with their illegal bulls***, btw ^ i've got 0 pirate games


Mate, you're missing out. Give this a try at least:
myWhiteWolf
Posted 02:10pm 08/4/11
Now, you please give me an example of when "doing outrageous things against what they disagree with" has ever changed anything without a more formal protest.
I'd say it requires a combination of both. public opinion supporting (by disregarding laws etc) the messages that the group forming and lobbying are pushing. how else is the message "people do not support this" going to be believed?
BillyHardball
Posted 02:14pm 08/4/11
Yep I might agree with you there.
teq
Posted 02:20pm 08/4/11
Now, you please give me an example of when "doing outrageous things against what they disagree with" has ever changed anything without a more formal protest.


Libya
Egypt
Tunisia
BillyHardball
Posted 02:26pm 08/4/11
Yeh fair enough, but those are on a bit of a different scale to what we're talking about here.
trillion
Posted 02:38pm 08/4/11
by posting itt Enska rises above his equally as spaz brothers weilding his conan spaz sword of might

edit: and then ninja deletes
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