I was serious. Banning something because it offends someone is stupid. The argument given by Toulouse is highly emotional and irrational. In fact I might boycott COD.

Isn't racism is a bannable offence on these forums as well? That rule would exist purely because such things would offend people, will you be boycotting these forums as well?

I was serious. Banning something because it offends someone is stupid. The argument given by Toulouse is highly emotional and irrational. In fact I might boycott COD.

i would have thought allowing people to use the swashtika would make it easier for them to sort the douchebags from the rest of the population and ban them accordingly.

How long until that symbol is socially acceptable again?

Who the f** is playing games and is going to be offended by it?

That's not a swastika, it just looks a bit like it.

Well I dunno, maybe the families of those millions of people who were killed? Just a thought.

it has the potential to inspire and motivate people to do unspeakable things....AGAIN.

Well I dunno, maybe the families of those millions of people who were killed? Just a thought.

But yeah, agree totally with fpot and trog, its more that they're just limiting the ability to be douchebags and giving people one less avenue to grief other players online. Its all nice to espouse the joys of free speech and dream about what a wonderful world it would be if we could all just get along, unfortunately thats not even close to the reality for most online communities. The anonymity of the internet creates an almost overwhelming flood of douchebaggery and brings out the worst in people, so I can't blame Microsoft for taking any and every measure they can to try and stem the flow.

Personally, I think that free speech is an essential liberty, except in circumstances where that free speech causes and counsels direct harm or damage. I don't think this amounts to that.

Why do people have to get along? Can't people handle differences of opinion

Because people pay money for a subscription to an online service and don't want it ruined by pre-pubescent children who think its hilarious to be idiots?

If you had paid money to go see a movie at the cinema, and I stood up in the cinema and started talking over the movie, espousing my political views and what I believe in, would you protect my right to free speech or tell me to shut the f*** up and sit down and stop acting like a knob?

Its not about free speech, its about having a bit of common decency and respect for other people, and since theres plenty of anonymous internet commandos out there who are unable to take it upon themselves to act decently and respect other people, rules like this have to be put in place to try and minimise the damage.

Because people pay money for a subscription to an online service and don't want it ruined by pre-pubescent children who think its hilarious to be idiots?

If you had paid money to go see a movie at the cinema, and I stood up in the cinema and started talking over the movie, espousing my political views and what I believe in, would you protect my right to free speech or tell me to shut the f*** up and sit down and stop acting like a knob?

Its not about free speech, its about having a bit of common decency and respect for other people, and since theres plenty of anonymous internet commandos out there who are unable to take it upon themselves to act decently and respect other people, rules like this have to be put in place to try and minimise the damage.

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If you had paid money to go see a movie at the cinema, and I stood up in the cinema and started talking over the movie, espousing my political views and what I believe in, would you protect my right to free speech or tell me to shut the f*** up and sit down and stop acting like a knob?

TELL ME TO LEAVE THE CINEMA COZ IT SEEMS TO GYRATE ON YOUR TESTICLES LEAVING YOU UNABLE TO WATCH THE MOVIE IN SILENCE?"

Because people pay money for a subscription to an online service and don't want it ruined by pre-pubescent children who think its hilarious to be idiots?

If you had paid money to go see a movie at the cinema, and I stood up in the cinema and started talking over the movie, espousing my political views and what I believe in, would you protect my right to free speech or tell me to shut the f*** up and sit down and stop acting like a knob?

Its not about free speech, its about having a bit of common decency and respect for other people, and since theres plenty of anonymous internet commandos out there who are unable to take it upon themselves to act decently and respect other people, rules like this have to be put in place to try and minimise the damage.

wow wigglepix,
you should really do your research before you embarress yourself, there are still thousands of vets and holocaust survivors alive today that would disagree with your stupidity. Knob

If you had paid money to go see a movie at the cinema, and I stood up in the cinema and started talking over the movie, espousing my political views and what I believe in, would you protect my right to free speech or tell me to shut the f*** up and sit down and stop acting like a knob?

The European Union's Executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism law in 2001, but European Union states failed to agree on the balance between prohibiting racism and freedom of expression.[72] An attempt to ban the swastika across the EU in early 2005 failed after objections from the British Government and others. In early 2007, while Germany held the European Union presidency, Berlin proposed that the European Union should follow German Criminal Law and criminalize the denial of the Holocaust and the display of Nazi symbols including the swastika, which is based on the Ban on the Symbols of Unconstitutional Organisations Act. This led to an opposition campaign by Hindu groups across Europe against a ban on the swastika. They pointed out that the swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace.[73][74] The proposal to ban the swastika was dropped by Berlin from the proposed European Union wide anti-racism laws on January 29, 2007.[72]

and then for a few short years

Some interesting reading about banning swastikas. Obviously this relates more to imposing the ban on people in general, rather than stopping douchebaggery in an online game.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The page also lists over a dozen historical, and contemporary uses of the swastika that have nothing to do with nazi germany. It is a shame that people don't know more about it. This symbol has been used for thousands of years in a positive way, and then for a few short years, one group of s***heads ruin it, like they ruined the awesome Charlie Chaplin moustache.

Also here is a site that tries to reclaim the swastika for it's non-nazi uses:
http://reclaimtheswastika.com/

Banning it is bulls*** political correctness that denies the much longer use before that as everything from a religous icon to a symbol of the finish military.

The swastika has many much older uses then the Nazi Party symbol. End of story

How many people would be genuinely expressing themselves by using a swastika on XBox Live in a way that wasn't some kind of d*** move though? I mean, I wouldn't go out on a limb and say theres none, but it would have to be a very, very small number of people. Blocking it might suck for those people, but the amount of grief it would prevent far outweighs the suckyness.

On a different point entirely, would somebody religious enough to be genuinely using a swastika on their avatar or as a spray in a game, be playing games like Call of Duty anyway? If its the symbol of peace, and they're THAT devoted to be using it as such, would they really be running around in war game violently killing other people?

The negative impact of banning the symbol in this context is extremely small to non-existant, whereas the positive impact, while probably not huge and life-altering, is going to be felt a lot more. Stop trying to turn the whole issue into some kind of principle you can get behind or a soapbox to stand on, its not that deep or complicated or even meaningful. Just like you can't post porn on QGL, you can't use swastikas on XBox Live. Don't like it? Don't use the service.

Didn't more Russians die than Jews?......... *shrug*