R18+ Discussion on Sunrise

Post by Steve Farrelly @ 12:15pm 16/11/10 | 45 Comments

Seamus Byrne, head honcho of Gizmodo and Kotaku Australia (and stand up guy, in our books), appeared on Sunrise this morning alongside Damian Tudehope of the Australian Family Association, to talk about the censorship board's upcoming revisit of the potential need to pull videogames in line with the rest of country's film and literature classifications, by introducing an R18+ rating.

On the program, they used Call of Duty: Black Ops as a key example of a game that should be deemed inappropriate to anyone under the age of 18 where Seamus and Damian offered arguments both for and against an R18+ classification for games.

Seamus is probably the best advocate for the need for an R18+ rating, and it's easy to see that groups like the Australian Family Association have a malformed opinion of the deeper issue; which is that obsession with the concept of "violence in videogames" overshadows a clear need to redefine our rating system as a whole, to bring it into modern context.

Watch the video embedded below.

classification r18+ rating censorship australia

Latest Comments

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teq
Posted 12:21pm 16/11/10

Kochies mo is terrible
other guy is a douche for trying to put words into Seamus' mouth re: "what he really wants is the game banned"

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Steve Farrelly
Posted 12:29pm 16/11/10

yeah I noticed that too teq, poor form - Seamus was well-composed and well-informed on the topic, I think he did an awesome job

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Khel
Posted 12:32pm 16/11/10

I had to laugh when the Family Association guy was like "I came home and my kids had this game, and I didn't know they had it". Well thats the crux of the problem isn't it?

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Steve Farrelly
Posted 12:37pm 16/11/10

nevermind his kid is 24 or whatever

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MatchFixah
Posted 12:39pm 16/11/10

The older bloke said this is the 8th in the series...i thought it was the 7th?

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Trauma
Posted 12:43pm 16/11/10

Great job there, I was not surprised that the older guy would act as he did, that was obvious when they said he was from the family association.

Shamus nailed it I thought, had the right answer all the way.

The older bloke said this is the 8th in the series...i thought it was the 7th?

Yea it is, just shows his lack of knowledge.

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Mr.Bumpy
Posted 12:48pm 16/11/10

The Familiy Association guy being surprised by the amount of violence in Call of Duty: Black Ops shows clearly that he's not informed of the kind of content in some games released this decade, or this year for that matter.

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tspec
Posted 01:34pm 16/11/10

Bringing up the removal of the MA15+ rating all together in favour of an 18+ rating was such a dopey suggestion, I'm surprised I didn't hear a facepalm sound coming Seamus when he mentioned it. Agreed Seamus did a great job there though, I was starting to think he wasn't going to get much of a word in given Tudehope was rambling on a bit in the first half on the video. It's somewhat conforting to know someone like Seamus is on the frontlines with this topic.

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Sc00bs
Posted 01:51pm 16/11/10

desensitized kids.

What a f*****g noob. How about hundreds of thousands of years of kids watching beheadings, hangings, tribal punishment/ war etc.. what a f***** joke and a weak excuse for not bringing in 18+

the push isnt for more violent video games, its for more adult themed video games you f***** bookworm wanker

Pretty sure leasure suit larry was banned, and there is no violence in that what so ever.

that damian guy is a f***** idiot and koshie should just give up trying to b hip with his mo

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redhat
Posted 01:54pm 16/11/10

I had to laugh when the Family Association guy was like "I came home and my kids had this game, and I didn't know they had it". Well thats the crux of the problem isn't it?

Hahaha, reminded me so much of that southpark episode where death is following the kids around and they call the parents but the parents are too busy getting terrance and philip banned.

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`ViPER`
Posted 02:01pm 16/11/10

What an idiot the family party guy is.

Its like he lives in some alternate reality were kids play hopskotch and watch cartoons.

His suggestion that there should only be a PG and an R18 ratings is so stupid I dont even know were to start.

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casa
Posted 02:18pm 16/11/10

He should have bought up the fact that religion is the single highest reason bar nothing there are WARS which kill THOUSANDS of people every year, however we don't ban religion, do we?

Well at least I think he didn't as I can't watch Sunrise purely due to my anti-channel-sevenism and that f**ot kosh - if some how I could break his voice box and melt his smug face with a blow torch, rendering him a media paperweight - without causing him serious harm (I am, after all, not a violent computer nerd), would be awwwwwesome.

last edited by casa at 14:18:32 16/Nov/10

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Phooks
Posted 02:17pm 16/11/10

just finished my last psych test today.

Part of the content was the agression formation through observation. Studies were done which displayed watching TV makes [younger people] aggressive.

So wheres the ban on R18+ TV and vidoes?

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Door
Posted 02:21pm 16/11/10

I can make a study which joins two things as well. Maybe I'll create a study comparing a child's lack of socializing to anti-social behaviour. I bet the results are the same. There's a new bulls*** 'give us more money' uni study every second.

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DEVDOGG
Posted 02:26pm 16/11/10

i think the guy from the family party needs to be updated along with the rating system, they both base there decisions on society from 30 years ago. also he mentioned that his youngest son was 24, he is quite possibly not connected to today's teenage community and i think that he was the wrong person to be asking, i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about.

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Wishbone
Posted 05:05pm 16/11/10

The Family Assoc Damien guy is a fool. Saying an R18+ rating on games in Aus will encourage more violent games. Typical small minded man - Are not pretty much ALL the mainstream violent games made outside Aus?

Activision will be like "Oh BTW that tiny, tiny little market called Australia just gave the thumbs up for a R18+ rating. Oh goody now we can publish all the extra violence we have been leaving out !"

At least Sunrise was taking a proper stance on the subject as well.

Also DEVDOGG "i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about." +1

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Trauma
Posted 05:09pm 16/11/10

i think the guy from the family party needs to be updated along with the rating system, they both base there decisions on society from 30 years ago. also he mentioned that his youngest son was 24, he is quite possibly not connected to today's teenage community and i think that he was the wrong person to be asking, i believe they should have asked someone with children in the age group that they are talking about.

Worth clearing up that he said his 24 year old son had Black ops and he asked him about it, he did say that he did not want his 15 year old son playing it. Just to be clear.

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Resonate
Posted 05:24pm 16/11/10

With the sheer amount of demented s*** their kids can access on the internet, violent games should be the least of their worries.

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grug09
Posted 05:33pm 16/11/10

The "other side" of this argument never really seem to grasp the concept of what gamers who support an 18+ scale are saying. Its always the same "they just want more violence in games" argument.

The 18+ rating allows games to scale reasonably, a game that is popular, but excessively violent gets rated MA15 here, yet the same game is rated 18+ in other countries, this opens up a door way for poor decision making by parents; and in turn makes the games industry look bad for marketing to children, grossly violent games. The system is broken, and its the broken system that is to blame for not making parents openly aware of what games are, and are not suitable to their children.

Seamus made some excellent points, but when compared to Damian, who just continued to put words in his mouth, he was too timid on the issue. Seamus had an open opportunity to ride home the fact that we're not asking for more violence to be allowed, we're asking that adults be able to enjoy adult mediums of entertainment, with out being restricted because a poor system prevents propper parenting decisions.

Sorry for the rant, and repeating myself.

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Darkhawk
Posted 05:49pm 16/11/10

Woah, I thought Micheal Atkinson was illogical and manipulative! I seriously think that old fart Seamus (Aran?) did more to increase the chances of R18+ being passed than Damian's clear, concise and logical arguments. Also what kind of "expert" refers to games as "video's"? Thanks Seamus, you have just scored a big win for us adult gamers and parents that are just after a fair and protective system for everyone!

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Rohan
Posted 05:52pm 16/11/10

you got the names mixed uup, dude.

Yeah, the Damian dude seems keen on putting words in Seamus' mouth. Which is what we've been seeing when it comes to people speaking out about the net filter or about introducing the R18+ rating.

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Sc00bs
Posted 05:55pm 16/11/10

on a side note anyone seen the need for speed ads with johny drama on them?

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Sc00bs
Posted 06:00pm 16/11/10

f*** yer sick there are heaps here

wow the car list for the new one is f***** pathetic, change the list in the last 4games much?

last edited by Sc00bs at 18:00:08 16/Nov/10

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Khel
Posted 06:37pm 16/11/10

I don't think Seamus attacked the "we'll be opening Australia up for more violent games" rhetoric that the other guy was spouting, because the fact of the matter is, those violent games are ALREADY HERE. Its not like theres going to suddenly be more, it just means what is already here, will be classified appropriately.

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Nerfington
Posted 07:25pm 16/11/10

Think the more important issue at hand is why is this guy's 24 year old son still living at home, and what kind of incapable adult has this man created? What does it say about the lack of credibility and over-abundance of righteousness from the Family Association if they use this guy as their representative?

To put it in perspective, I'm 24 and have been independent for 7 years, and would squirm at the idea of being treated like or thought of as a kid by some nosey parent, because that's not what I am. By all accounts it sounds as though this guy has not raised an independent adult.

tldr; arrhhh righteous unworthy pricks demanding capitulation

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Khel
Posted 07:31pm 16/11/10

My first thought was, if this guy's 24 year old son lives at home, with a console, and Black Ops, you just know the 15 year is playing it when dad's not around.

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TicMan
Posted 07:31pm 16/11/10

3 important things we should all take from that movie;

@2:05 we have a new Michael Jackson in the background doing the moon walk.
@3:49 we can clearly identify the game is boring and it's more fun using your iPhone
The arguments from Seamus were all logical for us but it needed to be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator and he has to be more emotional to get the point across.

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Eorl
Posted 09:05pm 16/11/10

Wow. Your 24 year old son is playing Blops and your outraged? The heck? Do you treat your 30 year old son like his 9? Seriously, Family First is a joke excuse for a party.

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Ven
Posted 09:32pm 16/11/10

Good job going onto national TV representing your family association without doing 1 second of research, just spouting your narrow minded opinion. Being someone who works in retail, an R rating would be a godsend for informing parents of what games are suitable for their young teen. Most parentsIi sell games to wish for a better rating system than we currently have. It needs to change with the changed market that exists today.

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HurricaneJim
Posted 10:26pm 16/11/10

He should have bought up the fact that religion is the single highest reason bar nothing there are WARS which kill THOUSANDS of people every year, however we don't ban religion, do we?

Religion should be R18+, that way children aren't exposed to it. Let Adults decide whether they want to be religious or not.

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Sc00bs
Posted 12:20am 17/11/10

then what would schools push on kids

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MoSFXx
Posted 12:24am 17/11/10

Anyone else find Mel hot?

I just wish they'd hurry up with the political bulls*** it's not going to make things worse!

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DeaDMeaT
Posted 03:45am 17/11/10

1 word Mr Family dude...

OWNED!

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Esotericthief
Posted 08:54pm 17/11/10

Agree 100% with HurricaneJim.

Can't wait for an R18+ rating to be in. I can't stand having s*** cut out of games just so we can play them or having them not sold in Aus altogether.

Family guy was a douche. He has a generalized argument of the topic. No actual or some what factual knowledge to go on. Our guy needed to argue the point more. Needed to add emotion and he should have called family guy on his bulls*** generalized ramblings. He could have met those ramblings with actual facts and/or statistics and OWNED family retard.

I want a little (and I mean only a little, not huge amounts) more gore in some of my games. Boobies couldn't hurt either.

Bring on R18+!

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Mr.Bumpy
Posted 01:41am 18/11/10

Chances of R18+ rating introduction before Duke Nukem Forever release? Fat chance, probably...

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DM
Posted 02:00am 18/11/10

I just can't seem to wrap my mind around the idea that having an R18+ rating for games would somehow expose children to worse games that there are already. Someone tell me how they make this leap please because it's the type of thing where if you think about it for more than 5 seconds, you start the bleed out of your nose and have to lay down.

I would imagine that if parents saw a giant, f*** off "R18" rating on the box it would twig that this game isn't ment for little timmy at home who is only 13. Also I can't see how games could any worse than what they are now. I mean games these days are always filled with violence and swearing just like any movie. S*** I still think that TV has a far worse influence on kids than what any game could. How many young girls do you see these days dressing like hookers because it's what f***heads do on TV?

Short of the invention of true, full VR or a game being released where you are a serial killer and you get to stalk, murder and evade police, there really won't be much more gore or violence than what you can find in any movie or game already.

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Mr.Bumpy
Posted 03:45am 18/11/10

It's interesting, and unsurprising, how the perceptions and expectations of what the introduction of an R18+ rating would do, from both sides of the discussion, differ.

From the gamers perspective, we expect that very limited, if any, additional games will come to the Australian market as a result of the introduction of an R18+ rating. More so, we would see some future mature games, possibly existing ones, rated more sensibly as R18+ (like they are in other countries like the US and UK) under a new ratings system, that would have otherwise been rated as MA15+ under the current ratings system. Also, games intended for a mature and adult audience (18+) would be released in Australia unaltered under a new ratings system, not unlike other mediums (film, books, etc.), instead of having minor alterations so that they can be released in Australia under the highest allowable rating of MA15+ under the current ratings system, permitting the adult game to be purchased, viewed and played by children 15 years and over.

Judging from the responses so far to the debate from politicians and opponents such as Damian Tudehope, their perception is that the introduction of an R18+ rating would open the flood gates for highly violent and sexual games to reach our shores and that these games would be easily accessible to minors and children. According to one Australian politician, these future R18+ rated games would include Japanese stalk and rape games such as Rapelay. An extreme example at best considering the game is banned in most nations (such as the US and the UK) and is only sold in Japan (though, is no longer available).

I'm sorry if I'm biased, but I must say from my observation that defenders for the introduction of an R18+ rating (and revision of the ratings system, itself) usually base their arguments on censorship and consistency as well as an understanding of the current ratings system and games in general, whereas opponents for an R18+ rating often lack research and knowledge of video games currently available and their arguments are always founded on fear.

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Spook
Posted 08:11am 18/11/10

Anyone else find Mel hot?

mel is hot as for a big girl, she'd be close to 6ft tall too

and nat goes pretty good

3way there please

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koopz
Posted 09:21am 18/11/10

Shamus nailed it I thought, had the right answer all the way.

Family First seemed to have come off looking incompetent.

ta for the vid

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Fnorg
Posted 10:08am 18/11/10

Also :"A push for R18+ ratings is a push for more violent games!!!!"

as if the gaming industry is going to say: Oh look Australia has a R18 rating about 100 years behind everyone else, better start making our games extra violent now!

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DM
Posted 11:09am 18/11/10

According to one Australian politician, these future R18+ rated games would include Japanese stalk and rape games such as Rapelay.

I wish someone would explain to these politicians that this game was released back in 2006, only released in japan, is no longer sold, and that it is avaliable on the internet so anyone who wanted to play this game has no doubt done so already. No one is upstairs in an office, gathered together around a big table like some type of super villain meeting, rubbing their hands together saying "soon... the R18 system will be pushed, and we can flood australia with japanese sex games MUAHAHAHAHAHA".

I hate seeing that game used as an example of why games are bad, because it's such a super extreme type of game in a very specific genre that 99% of the world won't play or have even known about were it not for the retarded feminists who complained about it. Talk about a Streisand effect.

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infi
Posted 11:13am 18/11/10

I love seeing a person's head explode in video games. It makes me fantasize about doing it in real life.

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rider
Posted 11:15am 18/11/10

I played my first computer game (Wolfenstein 3d, doom after that) when i was 6 or 7 (22 now). I strongly believe that if you cannot distinguish between a computer game and real life then you got issues. If you cannot distinguish between animated graphic violence and real life violence then you got issues. I rarely ever flinch at the sight of computer violence but when i see violence in real life i can feel my stomach clench thats fairly normal right ?
If you think violent computer games makes people violent, your basing your assumption on the fact that a human is just an empty vessel who is ready to emulate whatever he sees in a computer game.
I think that the governments take on 18+ games is an insult. They think we are not mature enough to play our computer games even when we are over the age of consent and that pees me off!

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grazer
Posted 11:45am 18/11/10

Anything the older guy said with respect to his "kid" has been invalidated by his "kid" being 24. Seriously wtf? He's still monitoring and trying to protect his 24 year old adultescent?

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Jim
Posted 01:13pm 18/11/10

haha that makes me think of buster in arrested development

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