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Post by Steve Farrelly @ 11:32am 09/07/10 | 49 Comments
As if hardcore TF2 players weren't refreshing the hell out of their machines, Valve have nonetheless shot through a reminder that the Engineer Class update is available now, and will be applied automatically through Steam for Team Fortress 2. This is the largest single class update the team have done, and it's been coming for a while.

As a non TF2 player (I just don't have the time, and am scared), I'd rather not attempt to relay the changes to the class or game, and instead will just link you to the official update page, which in typical Valve form, showcases everything in comedic and artistic style.

Click here for the full run-down.



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Latest Comments
NoLogic
Posted 11:37am 09/7/10
must have gunslinger!! :D
greazy
Posted 11:39am 09/7/10
What's with the Wrench Log?
hef
Posted 11:44am 09/7/10
If you value your sanity - stay away from TF2 for at least the next 2 weeks.

12 v 12 engineeer..... *rollseyes*
ravn0s
Posted 11:53am 09/7/10
What's with the Wrench Log?


its a list of the 100 people that found a gold wrench while crafting this week.
greazy
Posted 11:54am 09/7/10
annnnnd what's a gold wrench do?
ravn0s
Posted 11:55am 09/7/10
just turns people into gold statues when you kill them
DM
Posted 12:01pm 09/7/10
Downloading this now. It's going to be crazy for about a month with nothing but engineers so I suppose if you need any demo achivements, now will be the time to get them.
hef
Posted 12:24pm 09/7/10
good idea DM, I haven't whored my way through the demo/soldier achievements yet. may do that this week :)
ravn0s
Posted 12:42pm 09/7/10
yer im just gonna play demo or solly
Phar4oh
Posted 03:20pm 09/7/10
wow! awesome changes!
NoLogic
Posted 03:24pm 09/7/10
Will be hitting it hard tonight, prolly soldy, pyro, demo, scout, medic ... then after beers strike engy.

Anyone that wants to get some team capping or def on a 2fort map? add and msg me.

TF2 Nick = Dojo

HeardY
Posted 03:25pm 09/7/10
f***en 550mb worth!
DM
Posted 03:34pm 09/7/10
Things I like

- Gunslinger is pretty cool. Robot arm!
- Revenge crits are pretty cool
- Can move any building, anywhere you want

Things I don't like

- Can move any building anywhere. This should of been a special feature for the gunslinger only. This is way to abusable now with people building s*** way out of harms way and transporting it up.
- Gunslinger sentries are pretty s*****. Good for scout harassment or Lv 3 sentry support but that's it. Also the official page is misleading. You can't have more than 1, which sucks huge amounts of ass. At least let us have 2.

Not gotten the little radar thing yet and honestly, i've seen so many people with it. How the f*** do they have all the items less than an hour after the update happened? God damn hackers.
ravn0s
Posted 03:44pm 09/7/10
heh you can do sentry rocket jumps with the wrangler

How the f*** do they have all the items less than an hour after the update happened?


achievement servers
NoLogic
Posted 03:46pm 09/7/10
heh you can do sentry rocket jumps with the wrangler


wtf?? lol thats awesome.. go clock go!!!

1 hr to go, then update :p
thermite
Posted 04:13pm 09/7/10
Cool the mini-sentry will be great for me on many occasions. I often don't built up a base, just pop a baby sentry somewhere, and run off and fight with my shotgun until I can advance my sentry to another position. Keeps motherf*****s on their toes.
Snakeman
Posted 05:36pm 09/7/10
I tried standing on my sentry with the wrangler hopping I could do some kind of rocket jump to new exciting places and engie should not be able to go to. It seems Valve have thought about this one and its not possible :(
Reality
Posted 07:02pm 09/7/10
the engineer unlocks are skewed in favor of those who are more skilled than the traditional whack-the-sentry-over-and-over-again engineer.

-The wrangler is very strong if you are at an unexpected angle and/or at a long distance away. It requires aim and the sentry still doesn't last long if it comes under heavy fire, even with the 66% shield. IT IS POSSIBLE TO ROCKET JUMP - simply aim behind you as if it was a normal rocket launcher and run in front of your sentry. Don't stand on top of your sentry or anything stupid like that.

-The mini-sentry is powerful as long as nobody knows where you set it up. When you're spotted, you can rebuild a new one really quickly.

-Frontier justice is very powerful but does nothing to help your survivability, and if you can't aim then the minus three shots won't be doing you any favors.

The servers will be packed with engineers for at least two weeks, it'll be a field day for the demoman that's for sure
Tiny
Posted 07:49pm 09/7/10
So far blue is taking a pounding as people go engy which is s*** for offense.
d0mino
Posted 09:10pm 09/7/10
so what happens when you use wrangler?

do you have to hide then use it? can you be killed while you're wrangling or can you only be killed when your sentry is destroyed?
Stephen
Posted 09:52pm 09/7/10
You do take control of your sentry, d0mino, but you're still in control of the engie too. What happens if when you pull the wrangler out your sentry will then look whereever your crosshair is indicated by a red laser. When you click to shoot your sentry will start shooting where it's looking. Right click for level 3's does rockets. :)

So you don't have to hide, and you can still be killed whilst wrangling, and you do not die when your sentry dies.
thermite
Posted 09:43am 10/7/10
Interesting bug, if you build a level 3 sentry, then switch to gunslinger and move your sentry you get a level 3 mini-sentry. If you're on Blu your level 3 mini-sentry will be red.
Dazhel
Posted 09:58am 10/7/10
- Can move any building anywhere. This should of been a special feature for the gunslinger only. This is way to abusable now with people building s*** way out of harms way and transporting it up.


Hell yes. This is pissing me off.
You're trying to defend territory as a soldier, turn around and suddenly WTF three lvl3 sentries where they weren't there a second ago.
-=Dead=-

I sure hope they nerf it somehow. Movable buildings are cool, but moving a level 3 sentry needs to take 200 metal and 50 health or something.
thermite
Posted 10:00am 10/7/10
Yeah it's kinda silly that you can walk across the whole map carrying a sentry. Maybe you should get slower and slower the further you go, and more so with lvl 2 and 3 buildings.
WetWired
Posted 10:11am 10/7/10
I think they will nerf it, either slowing the walking speed depending on the level of the sentry or building (so a level 3 is slow as s*** to carry, but a level 1 is about the speed it is now) or dramatically increase the time it takes to unpack a sentry.
ravn0s
Posted 10:46am 10/7/10
a level 3 sentry that has been hauled takes like 10 seconds to be redeployed. thats plenty of time to take it down.

i think it will be fine in a few weeks time when theres not 6+ engies on a team.

last edited by ravn0s at 10:46:42 10/Jul/10
d0mino
Posted 10:46am 10/7/10
yeah i dont see it as that much of an issue, its just more noticable because there are eleventy billion engineers at the moment.
Snakeman
Posted 10:52am 10/7/10
Can you take a built sentry through a tele ??
thermite
Posted 11:06am 10/7/10
Yes

You can tele through, waltz up to the enemy spawn or the last point, and pop a lvl3 sentry up in 10 seconds.

You are a vulnerable while carrying it, and often lose your life and the sentry, but if you keep trying that over and over again you get lucky.

last edited by thermite at 11:06:48 10/Jul/10
thermite
Posted 07:53pm 10/7/10
Haha I played tf2 against ravn0s and he was kicking arse and then they threatened to ban him.
Dazhel
Posted 09:28pm 10/7/10
Stole this from the steam forums. These new sentries are f*****g way too overpowered. Soldiers only have 4 rockets in the clip and a slow reload rate and it's getting stupidly hard to take them down now.

Wrangler Sentry Stats:
Level 1 Sentry
* Pre Wrangler: HP 150, DPS 64
* Post Wrangler: HP 450 (33% damage, HP effectively tripled), DPS 128 (perfect aim) or 102 (80% accuracy)

Level 2 Sentry
* Pre Wrangler: HP 180, DPS 128
* Post Wrangler: HP 540, DPS 256 (perfect aim) or 205 (80% accuracy)

Level 3 Sentry
* Pre Wrangler: HP 216, DPS 128 bullets & 37 rockets
* Post Wrangler: HP 648, DPS 256 bullets & 74 rockets (~=330) or 264 (80% accuracy)

In addition, assuming a second Engineer repairs, each sentry regains 105 HP per wrench, or ~130 HP/sec.
With the HP multiplier, 315 HP per hit, or ~400 HP/sec

Firepower required to take down an L1 Wrangled Sentry (without repairs):
* 5 regular rockets minimum,
* 5 Direct Hit rockets minimum (just barely),
* 5 Stickies minimum,
* 2.5 seconds of concentrated Sasha fire

Firepower required to take down an L2 Wrangled Sentry (without repairs):
* 6 regular rockets minimum,
* 5 Direct Hit rockets minimum,
* 5-6 Stickies minimum,
* 3 seconds of concentrated Sasha fire

Firepower required to take down an L3 Wrangled Sentry (without repairs):
* 8 regular rockets minimum,
* 6 Direct Hit rockets minimum,
* 6-7 Stickies minimum,
* 3.6 seconds of concentrated Sasha fire

Firepower mitigated on a Wrangled Sentry per repairing wrench hit:
* 3.5 regular rockets.
* 2.8 Direct Hit rockets.
* 3 Stickies.
* 1.75 seconds of concentrated Sasha fire
CHUB
Posted 08:20am 11/7/10
Its no more powerful then a heavy/medic combo.

They go down easy, more often then not 2 engis aren't working together and if they are the laser pointer is a magnet for pipe spam or similar.

The only thing they need to nerf is teleporting buildings, not altogether but perhaps a 50% deployment speed for buildings teleported.

I use all 3 unlocks, wrangled mini-SG's and revenge crits ftw :D With the exception of getting caught by a Heavy, it's piss easy to win 1 on 1 vs any class... drop a mini, start firing your shotgun they have to choose a target, if they try to kill your mini/switch to wrangle (get shield bonus) and mow them down :D If they try to kill you just dodge till your mini is up :D Plus you get 2x mini-SG attemps.

last edited by CHUB at 08:20:05 11/Jul/10
do0b
Posted 09:21am 11/7/10
sentries were due for an overhaul they were getting pretty useless pre-patch. no doubt valve will do some minor tweaks but i think it's pretty clear their intention was to buff the engie..
euphoria
Posted 09:21am 11/7/10
I noticed last night that destroying wrangled sentries is near impossible when working as a lone soldier. The soldier was the long range sentry destroyer. Not anymore. :(

The only good thing is this is a valve game, so they'll definitely monitor everything and will likely apply tweaks in the coming days / weeks.
Dazhel
Posted 09:56am 11/7/10
Its no more powerful then a heavy/medic combo.


That's a good reason to nerf it slightly. A lone engineer (1 player slot) is now as powerful as a heavy medic combo (2 player slots). Engie is supposed to be a support class, not an all powerful killing platform.
CHUB
Posted 11:13am 11/7/10
That's a good reason to nerf it slightly. A lone engineer (1 player slot) is now as powerful as a heavy medic combo (2 player slots). Engie is supposed to be a support class, not an all powerful killing platform.
I was comparing 2 engis (1 wrangling, 1 repairing) to a medic/heavy combo... just like a lone player can't kill a heavy/med combo, they shouldn't be able to kill 2 engis working on the one SG.

I don't see how it's overpowered, 2 players can beat 2 engis, if 1 player could beat 2 engis (which is what people want for some reason?) then THAT would be unbalanced.

1 engi wrangling is easy to kill, IMO easier then a normal SG.
Phooks
Posted 03:07pm 11/7/10
spies can kill heavy/medic

spies can destroy engis hands down.

L2 class balance guys.
Rdizz
Posted 11:11pm 11/7/10
yeah this is the time for spy's.. it really couldnt get easier.
thermite
Posted 11:27pm 11/7/10
As pyro I've been easily taking down wrangled sentries, much easier than automated ones which would own you as soon as you are within range. With a wrangler it's your strafing against their response, way more chance, and the engy isn't wrenching the sentry to fix it.
Fish
Posted 11:49pm 11/7/10
Hell, even if an engi was wrenching the sentry, the engi would die in a fire rather quickly anyway.
ravn0s
Posted 09:16am 12/7/10
the only thing i would like to see changed is the build time for the mini sentry. imo the engie should be deploying it already built. atm its way too easy to destroy them during the build animation.
CHUB
Posted 09:25am 12/7/10
the only thing i would like to see changed is the build time for the mini sentry. imo the engie should be deploying it already built. atm its way too easy to destroy them during the build animation.
That would be EXTREMELY overpowered.

The mini-SG builds quick enough, the only way it gets destroyed during the build animation is if you deploy it directly next to an enemy and during that build animation you have 2-3 free shotgun hits and the ability to drop another mini-SG straight away for 100 metal.
Dazhel
Posted 09:35am 12/7/10
atm its way too easy to destroy them during the build animation.
That would be EXTREMELY overpowered.


Holy s*** yes!
I've seen the tactic plenty of times on badlands:
- Engie builds mini for 100 metal and sits in waiting with shotgun
- Soldier comes along takes 2 rockets to destroy the mini sentry (assuming 100% accuracy)
- Engineer immediately deploys another mini because they're so cheap and they set up stupidly fast.
- Soldier has the option of taking out the engie with remaining two rockets or taking out the new mini sentry (assuming 100% accuracy)

The engineer is getting free shotgun shots the entire time.
ravn0s
Posted 09:49am 12/7/10
i just find them way too easy to destroy, they arent much of a challenge.
CHUB
Posted 10:14am 12/7/10
i just find them way too easy to destroy, they arent much of a challenge.
Add the wrangler to Dazhels strat and the mini-SG is quite strong.

Either way you're taking lots of damage, either kill the SG and get hit by shotgun or go for the engi before he can enable the wrangler (then you need 5+ rockets)... then account for the engi dropping another immediately.

The only time I struggle to get a kill is when they go STRAIGHT for the SG's as they're building when I have the Frontier justice, I get 3-4 free shotgun shots then have to escape because the clip size makes it hard to stand toe to toe with sollies or demos. I have a feeling this could easily be fixed by using the standard shotgun.

I like revenge crits though :D
The GuVna
Posted 12:05pm 12/7/10
What Im seeing that is most effective is 2 engies on 1 Wrangled sentry from distance, one maintains repairs while the other one aims & gives it the shield, tough but alas not invincible. As long as you use your microphones & co-ordinate an attack, anything can be defeated through team work.
Dazhel
Posted 04:37pm 12/7/10
As long as you use your microphones & co-ordinate an attack, anything can be defeated through team work.


:( Yeah. It's probably just pub servers that are getting me down. All I hear on the mic these days is either 10 year olds know it alls or HERP DERP BOOM HEADSHOT!
greazy
Posted 04:42pm 12/7/10
You're probably playing against (or with) my little brother. He is awesome and you should not be ashamed to get hammered by him.
thermite
Posted 05:08pm 12/7/10
Guy that thinks he's the boss of the team: "OK now engies you need to build a sentry somewhere"
Me: "OH REALLY??? SENTRIES?? IS THAT WHAT WE DO??"

Now I just mute guys talking
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