Post by trog @ 10:34am 19/04/10 | 50 Comments
The three games she chooses as examples do not raise my hopes for a video game that will deserve my attention long enough to play it. They are, I regret to say, pathetic. I repeat: "No one in or out of the field has ever been able to cite a game worthy of comparison with the great poets, filmmakers, novelists and poets."It should be noted that it appears that he came to the conclusion that these games are 'pathetic' without actually having played them. Weird.
His comments have drawn the expected ire of video gamers around the world, and there are many rebuttals, including one by Nick Halme of Gamasutra, who concludes by saying:
Videogames cannot be observed as film, they cannot be listened to as music, they cannot be mused over as a painting. Videogames must be played.This debate is an interesting one for Australians, simply because of the R18 rating debate that continues to rage and the effect of the debate on the ability of things like 'art' to be classified.
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Posted 10:38am 19/4/10
Posted 10:40am 19/4/10
Posted 10:41am 19/4/10
Here's a game he should play: "where's my f*****g chin?"
Posted 10:46am 19/4/10
they are still works of art in their own right, but it takes a real game critic to appreciate the artistic endeavors that went into something like Half Life 2 as opposed to stalwarts like minesweeper or solitaire, as a simple start, this doesn't even go into the real art which lies somewhere in the gameplay mechanisms that determine if a game is 'fun' or not
Posted 10:55am 19/4/10
if he had half a brain and could spectate a few games of pro starcraft he would know what art for gaming means ;p
Posted 10:56am 19/4/10
Kudos to him bringing these issues up and getting public discussion happening.
At the end of the day, it doesn't bother me what you call a game. It's a matter of semantics and has no effect on my overall enjoyment of games and gaming. It's funny seeing all the people getting upset about it.
Posted 10:57am 19/4/10
I don't like. That is just one particular aspect associated with art.
For me, art is anything a human being does that doesn't really need to be done.
There is no question that a computer game is art. It is frequently crafted from literature, music, architecture, painting, sculpture, human movement, and print. It is designed, it is visual and sensual, it's about places and faces and people, it has process, function, concept, abstract. It represents the natural, the real, and the unusual. Most importantly it comes from people's imagination.
No question.
oops.
Posted 10:57am 19/4/10
Posted 11:00am 19/4/10
Games are Art IMO. Its just interactive Art.
Posted 11:03am 19/4/10
Posted 11:20am 19/4/10
Posted 11:20am 19/4/10
Posted 11:25am 19/4/10
Posted 11:33am 19/4/10
Posted 11:34am 19/4/10
Posted 11:36am 19/4/10
i just dont get that quote. how is playing something any different to watching, listening, reading etc?
Posted 11:39am 19/4/10
It's in response to the movie critic making up his mind about games without ever having actually played them. You can't have a valid opinion of a game if you've never played it.
last edited by deadlyf at 11:39:35 19/Apr/10
Posted 11:38am 19/4/10
True. They are much more useful IMO than what art (paintings, sculptures) and s*** will ever been from this point in time on.
Posted 11:38am 19/4/10
Posted 11:45am 19/4/10
Here's my definition of art; I vote everyone accepts it as the One True Definition and then we can live happily ever after:
Art is whatever you think it is
Posted 11:55am 19/4/10
Posted 12:12pm 19/4/10
Posted 12:34pm 19/4/10
Posted 12:44pm 19/4/10
Posted 12:46pm 19/4/10
So I think that good games that have substance and leave a lasting affect on you after you play them through and should not be pigeonholed as "art" anyway.
It should simply be appreciated for what they are and hopefully they inspire other developers to make great design decisions in future games :D
Personal taste comes into telling what games are good and worth you spending time with.
This guy can have his "games are not art" argument and I'll finsish with this:
I've played so many more PC games that left a lasting afterthought and consideration then paintings, movies and music have ever because PC games are interactive and personal.... the best ones anyway :P
Posted 01:07pm 19/4/10
Belonging in a Sports Museum. A game of Chess is Art ?
A game might better be described as the brush of an Artist or the pen of a Writer. Games might be Performance Art. Art or Sport what is it ?
Roger Ebert has an extensive movie review website. I used to go there once a week for a read of reviews.
Posted 01:34pm 19/4/10
can art be art if it's mass-produced on an assembly line? ferrari people would probably say yes :P
Posted 01:37pm 19/4/10
Posted 01:49pm 19/4/10
Posted 01:50pm 19/4/10
He actually shoots her down pretty well.
The games she cites are Braid, Waco Resurrection (!) and Flower. Seriously.
I can't say I completely agree with him, because I think art is bulls***, and he probably is one of those "art is truth" types. I suspect the failing is that the interaction means the "art" is secondary to the game, which is true. COD is nothing more than Wolf3d with a slightly more believable story tacked on. At the end of the day you are only playing it to shoot nazis, commies or towelies. The story is the reward for playing the game. Ultimately it's machinima interupted by some stupid shooting nonsense, which is just an evolution of Space Invaders. You move a controller to shoot and to dodge. In truth the story is irrelevant, as is the visuals, and the sound. If games are art than so is pornography.
The more interactive the game, the less it is art, the more it becomes a simulator. Or the more interactive, the more apparent the rules of the game, and the goals, become. The less interactive a game becomes the less its a game.
Who gives a s*** though, why the f*** do people want games to be art so bad? Art is pretentious bulls***, who the f*** wants to play a game that is pretentious bulls***. The pursuit of this s*** is what is wrong with games these days. FPSs turn in to rail shooters, with nothing but scripted events. And don't get me started on Heavy Rain or whatever the f***. Even sandbox games are ruined by this s*** too, which boring as f*** missions when its more fun to blow s*** up and drive buses over jumps.
Posted 01:55pm 19/4/10
Posted 01:57pm 19/4/10
How does interactive art fit into all of this.
Posted 02:00pm 19/4/10
Games can contain a lot of content: visual, audio, plot and scripting. But games add one all important thing on top which rarely gets considered as the artistic part, and that's the actual gameplay mechanics itself. Is chess art because the mechanics of chess are so great? Would you consider your favourite card game art because it's such a cleverly invented game?
Posted 07:08pm 19/4/10
All fine and dandy that you think that, but there are many many many forms of art out there i am sure he wouldn't appreciate, does that then make them not art?
Dance, music, film, all art, CREATED by someone for a purpose of expression. video games fall under that category too my chinless friend.
It really does surprise me that someone of an older generation of "art" doesn't understand the forward movement of what people classify art, when mediums such as film are moving into 3d, graphic art into the abstract, how is it that someone who is an art/film critic can deny that video games are simply another medium?
Posted 07:24pm 19/4/10
I couldn't even be bothered to argue it any further, let me just say, There's No Country For Old Men
Posted 07:27pm 19/4/10
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/04/an-open-letter-to-roger-ebert/
Posted 07:38pm 19/4/10
Posted 07:48pm 19/4/10
Posted 07:48pm 19/4/10
Posted 07:50pm 19/4/10
Posted 08:54pm 19/4/10
Right you are!
I wonder what Mr Ebert would have to say about that.
Posted 09:53pm 19/4/10
Roger Ebert
Posted 01:02am 20/4/10
But someone who is so vocally against the Motion Picture Association of America film rating system can't be all bad.
Posted 01:26am 20/4/10
lol
Posted 11:07am 20/4/10
I don't really care whether they are ever considered art, as long as they are entertaining then the game has set out to do what it was designed to do.
Posted 11:58am 20/4/10
Games are art, this dude is on old fart who is completely irrelevant. The end.
Posted 06:28pm 20/4/10
Posted 02:12pm 23/4/10
so true
Posted 02:18pm 23/4/10
What is art? is an unanswerable question.
One attempt at an answer (which I personally use) is "Art is the most immediate form of knowledge."
Roger Ebert sounds like a fool and I'll now know to give anything he authors a total miss.
Posted 02:39pm 23/4/10