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Post by trog @ 02:08pm 16/02/10 | 148 Comments
This is doing the rounds at the moment so it's worth mentioning - in an interview with Good Game, Michael Atkinson has compared gamers to bikie gangs. ABC News have the write-up:
"About two o'clock in the morning I had a threatening note from a gamer shoved under my door," he said.

"I feel that my family and I are more at risk from gamers than we are from the outlaw motorcycle gangs who also hate me and are running a candidate against me.

"The outlaw motorcycle gangs haven't been hanging around my doorstep at 2:00 am, a gamer has."
Regardless of what you think about Atkinson and his crazy perspective on games and this perhaps somewhat over-the-top comparison, it is important to note that abusive and anti-social behaviour (not to mention death threats) is not at all constructive - it just adds more weight to the argument that we need more restrictions and paints us in an extremely negative light.

A big point of the campaign to get the R18+ rating is that gamers are adults. Try to get your weight behind this cause in a productive and sensible manner - limit your abuse and focus on the major points that we want to get across. Check out the EFA's discussion paper for ideas.



r18+ ratingr18+





Latest Comments
Phooks
Posted 02:22pm 16/2/10
I bet if he limited those motorcycle gangs to a max of 250cc engines he would be recieving much more than death threats.

Of course he is getting more backlash from gamers than other groups, we are the people he is antagonising the most.

But yes trog I agree death threats are bad.

So are 18+ games mmmmkay

last edited by Phooks at 14:22:41 16/Feb/10
Seven
Posted 02:27pm 16/2/10
Hard to act like adults when he treats adults as kids. Remove his high horse and then we can talk.
trog
Posted 02:29pm 16/2/10
Hard to act like adults when he treats adults as kids. Remove his high horse and then we can talk.
I would argue that if you're treated like a kid, that's when you need to act most like an adult. It's fair enough if you think he's a bit of a dill, but if you just wander around filling up forums with rabid vitriol, it's not going to help the cause - it just makes it look like there's a bunch of enraged kids out there having a tantrum because they're not getting the toy they wanted when mum took them to the store.
Jim
Posted 02:30pm 16/2/10
actually I'm not finding it hard at all to avoid doing anything illegal toward the guy, regardless of how I feel he's treating me
`ViPER`
Posted 02:33pm 16/2/10
I realy think that the 18+ thing with atkinson is a lost cause, until he is out of parliment, probably when he retires, nothing is going to change.

U cant reason with him, he has made his mind up and unless he thinks its going to cause him too lose an election, which it realy isnt he wont change.

He is from a totally different generation, he has no comprehension of the gaming scene, and probably doesnt care to learn.
tequila
Posted 02:37pm 16/2/10
it just adds more weight to the argument that we need more restrictions and paints us in an extremely negative light.


where do you get this drivel from?
how is one anti social newb threatening a minster reflecting poorly upon the rest of us?
he is going to continue with his plans regardless of any threats, he knows that it wasn't 600,000 angry anti-filter protesters outside his door
it was the actions of a lone individual

it certainly does not give him any more reason to think that restrictions are necessary, his decision to filter our internet is to ban "refused classification content", not to stop angry nerds from carrying out threads

once again, angry nerd with a point to prove != small breasted women who might be perceived as children in porn
thermite
Posted 02:37pm 16/2/10
It's difficult not to resort to violence when you have no voice, and when some out-of-the-loop a****** can call some pretty unreasonable shots, and ridicules the people it affects for having an opinion about it.

Ask the people that started America.

It's not a matter of maturity or legality to commit violent acts against Government officials that are taking away your rights, it's a matter of honour and protecting the future. Being able to say to your grandkids that you did something in the times when things got real f***ed up.

A note under the door is pretty pox though, you need a posse.
demon
Posted 02:40pm 16/2/10
i dunno... if i was a neighbour of his i might feel tempted to leave a flaming turd on his doorstep. it's no death threat but it's smelly & flaming!

what a douche... coz like it's real mature to compare computer gaming on the same level as outlaw bikie gang behaviour... real similar! :p
Viper
Posted 02:40pm 16/2/10
It is sad to see him revert back to his old self, after that recent interview on abc I think it was he was starting to say that perhaps he is out of touch and that he might change his mind after the election, not sure what difference it makes.

Also with him stating that he believes the discussion paper should of included still images of the games just seems silly, thats like taking a still image of the shower scene in starship troopers and calling it a porno, there are all sorts of things that are taken into account when rating a game and yes impact is one of them but its also the length of exposure to such things, infact it was this very point that got AvP re rated to MA15+.

Sounds like he is just making up more excuses to try and delay, but at least he has stopped talking about Japanese rape simulators coming into the country if there was an R18+ rating.
`ViPER`
Posted 02:42pm 16/2/10
If this guy knew anything about the "gaming scence" he would know all gamers are just all talk and in person they are just normal people who wouldnt hurt a fly.

take this forum for example, people bag out other people pretty harshly sometimes, but I bet if everyone was in a room together, it would be a totally different story.
Twisted
Posted 02:43pm 16/2/10
Regardless of what you think about Atkinson and his crazy perspective on games and this perhaps somewhat over-the-top comparison, it is important to note that abusive and anti-social behaviour (not to mention death threats) is not at all constructive - it just adds more weight to the argument that we need more restrictions and paints us in an extremely negative light.
Atkinson doesn't have to try to smack talk us, because there are enough retarded gamers who are making enough noise in a stupid way to ensure that the general public has very little sympathy for us. The new stereotype for gamers is: Emo raged, paedophile, violent loners.
HerbalLizard
Posted 02:45pm 16/2/10
Friendly bunch of chucklef****.

Surely a bikie gang is going to do more than slip a note under the door, first thought that came to mind was firebombing, driveby & then there is a old rape him and his entire family chestnut. Even the dead ones
neffo
Posted 02:51pm 16/2/10
The easiest solution to solve this problem is for there to be a 10pm curfew enforced for all gamers. It's that easy.

I should be a politician.
RockitMan
Posted 02:56pm 16/2/10
How did he know it was 2:00 in the morning?
reLapse
Posted 02:58pm 16/2/10
Maybe if he wasn't running around trying to be parent to the millions of people who know well enough to decide for themselves he wouldn't be getting threatening notes under his door.

I'm not saying what that person did was right but he can't be surprised to get those kinds of reactions when he's basically supporting the supression of rights.
neffo
Posted 03:01pm 16/2/10
How did he know it was 2:00 in the morning?


I suspect a clock or a watch.
greazy
Posted 03:02pm 16/2/10
someone should tune one of his sons.

gogogogo neffo you homo
trog
Posted 03:03pm 16/2/10
how is one anti social newb threatening a minster reflecting poorly upon the rest of us?
I guess you mean, aside from the fact that there's now a news article on the ABC comparing gamers to bikie gangs?

the rest of your post is about filtering which is not what this is about
TiT
Posted 03:08pm 16/2/10
is he banning homo too?
reLapse
Posted 03:14pm 16/2/10
I just don't understand how anyone can be against a classification that will help lessen a childs access to content that they shouldn't have access to but currently do due to it being MA15+.
Dazhel
Posted 03:14pm 16/2/10
after that recent interview on abc I think it was he was starting to say that perhaps he is out of touch and that he might change his mind after the election


Politicians make everything look like roses after an election: Just vote for me and it'll all be peachy.
Trauma
Posted 03:23pm 16/2/10
I'm honestly not worried about this, I would like a 18+ for games sure, but ultimately this guy is on the way out if you know what I mean, gamers are taking over as years go by and really, no matter what the OFLC does it's soo easy to get what you want... who actually buys games in AUS anyway?

Oh and I don't buy it, I thinks he's talking s*** to garner support ahead of an election and smear those who support an 18+... he's a f*****g pollie.
Methz
Posted 03:41pm 16/2/10
People fighting losing battles always blow things out of context and go with desperate choices..
Hell,you cant blame the dude I do the same when I get my ass handed to me.
Bear
Posted 03:52pm 16/2/10
I think I'm over this entire debate. The internet is an international forum which makes local rating restrictions a moot point. There's almost nothing digital which can't be bought online. Local restrictions don't make any difference if you've got a VPN or a little creative intelligence.
bLaZe
Posted 03:54pm 16/2/10
I love how he can take one action and brand it typical behavior of all gamers. By that logic politicians are corrupt, old men are pedophiles and South Australians are serial killers.
SueyJitSu
Posted 03:56pm 16/2/10
I just can't believe that a decision like this (R18+ for games) has come down to 1 man and his opinion. It just does not make sense to me. Who is he to deny the rights of the people!
If we want to play a game that has a bit of blood and gore then we should have the right to do so.
For those who don't like that sort of thing ... don't buy it!
tequila
Posted 04:14pm 16/2/10
I guess you mean, aside from the fact that there's now a news article on the ABC comparing gamers to bikie gangs?


it only works if we give it credibility, I won't let him lump me in the same boat as one vigilante and you shouldn't either

he is eventually going to bring his own downfall with all these retarded things he keeps saying, I just hope it comes sooner rather than later for the sake of our freedoms
I wish this was one of those problems that would go away if we just ignored it, but he's made it pretty clear that no matter the amount of public outrage he's determined to continue with his plans

I don't condone violence in this situation but I certainly wouldn't be concerned if I opened up the paper tomorrow and the headlines told me that he had met an unfortunate end
he is a plague on our so called free society, his removal from a position of power would be very welcome at this stage

last edited by tequila at 16:14:33 16/Feb/10
Bonez
Posted 04:17pm 16/2/10
I wonder what he would say if this particular gamer also rode a Harley?

(edit: spelling mistake, road/rode)

last edited by Bonez at 16:17:05 16/Feb/10
DM
Posted 04:19pm 16/2/10
I just don't understand how anyone can be against a classification that will help lessen a childs access to content that they shouldn't have access to but currently do due to it being MA15+.

Exactly. So in order to protect kids... he is stopping an R18 rating. I dunno if my mum was like most others but I could watch M or MA rated movies when I was around 13 or 14, But R was off limits until I was like 17. I'd like to think that when parents saw a bit fat R on a game they'd take it off their underage kid
tequila
Posted 04:22pm 16/2/10
one of the big problems he's going to face is that he can't force non-Australian companies to abide by his conditions
there's nothing stopping a lax US company (Steam anyone?) from selling these games to Australians regardless of what laws are in place

he might be able to stop physical imports, he might even be able to get measure put in place to stop Australian IPs from accessing the US stores, but he can't stop anyone who really wants to get past his stupid filter
Vaughany
Posted 04:28pm 16/2/10
I bet in his own mind he thinks he's saving Australia's youth.

I recall him playing the new avp and saying "you dont need to play a game that lets you gouge peoples eyes out" and then trying to ban it. Its insane that one man thinks he knows whats best for everybody ealse more than they do.
Crash
Posted 04:32pm 16/2/10
Chris Prior from gamers4cryodon

Channel 9 news crew just left, I should be on 9 News tonight talking about Atkinson and R18+

http://twitter.com/chris4croydon
tequila
Posted 04:41pm 16/2/10
there's an 80/20 chance that Chan9 will make him out to be a complete nutter with courtesy of their editor, though
Vaughany
Posted 04:45pm 16/2/10
I like those odds
deadlyf
Posted 04:50pm 16/2/10
there's nothing stopping a lax US company (Steam anyone?) from selling these games to Australians regardless of what laws are in place
Yeah because on the internet you are allowed to break whatever laws you want.

As Conroy has said of Google, they can b**** and moan all they want but when it becomes Australian law they will have to comply. That'd be why you can't purchase Manhunt on Steam unless you do the cc=uk/us thing.
Seven
Posted 05:00pm 16/2/10
It's difficult not to resort to violence when you have no voice, and when some out-of-the-loop a****** can call some pretty unreasonable shots, and ridicules the people it affects for having an opinion about it.

this
fpot
Posted 05:02pm 16/2/10
It's difficult not to resort to violence when you have no voice, and when some out-of-the-loop a****** can call some pretty unreasonable shots, and ridicules the people it affects for having an opinion about it.
But it's not like he is cutting off our food or water supply or anything. Is violence really a viable option in response to someone saying you can't play certain video games?

I don't think it is.
Bonez
Posted 05:03pm 16/2/10
All the lack of an R18+ rating is going to do is force gamers to find other means of acquiring these games.

Same with Conroy's filter, people will find way around or through it.
Seven
Posted 05:06pm 16/2/10
Is violence really a viable option in response to someone saying you can't play certain video games?

You skipped the part where people have tried diplomatic options. Petitions, debates, rallies. People want to have their say against this man's opinions.

It's when this sort of action has zero impact that other ways to show one's disapproval are sought after.
fpot
Posted 05:07pm 16/2/10
You skipped the part where people have tried diplomatic options. Petitions, debates, rallies. People want to have their say against this man's opinions.
Ummmm no I didn't.
bLaZe
Posted 05:10pm 16/2/10
You only have do obey the laws of the country you are operating in. Google can, and seem likely to, tell Conroy to take his internet sheriff badge and lodge it where the sun don't shine. He doesn't get to dictate the content on us servers, so we can expect Google to be banned outright via the content filter...
tequila
Posted 05:11pm 16/2/10
what about if you said "is violence really an option in response to someone taking away our basic freedoms" ?
my right to chose is worth fighting for, I don't want to live in a country where the government decides what is appropriate for me and what isn't
fpot
Posted 05:16pm 16/2/10
I'd ask you to clarify 'basic freedoms'.

Anyone who thinks that hurting, killing someone or even threatening someone with harm is an appropriate response to R18+ games being banned (especially when they are easily obtainable despite the fact they are banned) is wrong (and dumb).

In fact some would perceive these sort of people as a very good reason for these games to be banned.

last edited by fpot at 17:16:20 16/Feb/10
MatchFixa
Posted 05:18pm 16/2/10
It's difficult not to resort to violence when you have no voice
Welcome to Palestine, since 1948.
thermite
Posted 05:25pm 16/2/10
Anyone who thinks that hurting, killing someone or even threatening someone with harm is an appropriate response to R18+ games being banned is wrong.


People are routinely threatened, hurt, and sometimes killed for much less important things by authorities.

There is really a lot more to political situations like this than calling citizens dumb babies for standing up for their freedoms. Sure violence isn't lovely, but neither is that slow-boiled-frog form of oppression.
leb
Posted 05:27pm 16/2/10
sigh.. wish i could see through his eyes maybe then i would understand his ridiculus motives
tequila
Posted 05:29pm 16/2/10

Anyone who thinks that hurting, killing someone or even threatening someone with harm is an appropriate response to R18+ games being banned


you know as well as I do that it's about more than video games, it's about censorship on the whole

'basic freedoms'.


the right to chose what I find sexually appealing, maybe I like small titted women? (I don't fyi, I'm normal)
the right to decide what is and is not appropriate for my children on the internet
the right to freely consume whatever material I should so chose, even if it does contain politically sensitive or potentially "illegal" (suicide information etc) material

obviously I'm not arguing that all information should be free and nothing should be banned, but I don't think its Stephen Conroys right or job to decide what is inappropriate for my kids

you don't seem to fear the amount of harm he can do, once it's done it's very unlikely ever going to be undone
games don't cause the violence, anyone that uses that argument is a complete retard
violence has been around since forever, video games haven't

an increase in school shootings and stabbings etc can't be put down to kids playing violent video games
it's more likely that these kids have mental problems prior to playing the games and they're unable or ill equipped to deal with the violence, hence they're pre disposed to this kind of behavior

that doesn't mean we should all be banned from playing them, if that were the case he should be calling for a ban on all alcohol because sometimes idiots get drunk and kill people

ctd
Posted 05:30pm 16/2/10
Don't worry guys, AVP turned out s*** anyway.
fpot
Posted 05:31pm 16/2/10
People are routinely threatened, hurt, and sometimes killed for much less important things by authorities.
Authorities usually only use force or threaten to use force when their lawful instructions aren't being obeyed.

I already know you are gonna say "but some don't" and you are absolutely right. Then it comes down to whether you want to justify your actions with the "but those bad people do it so why can't I" response, or if you don't want to be retarded and not go down that path.
deface
Posted 05:37pm 16/2/10
Commendation to trog for using Dill and vitirol in the same sentance.
fpot
Posted 05:39pm 16/2/10
he right to chose what I find sexually appealing, maybe I like small titted women? (I don't fyi, I'm normal)
the right to decide what is and is not appropriate for my children on the internet
the right to freely consume whatever material I should so chose, even if it does contain politically sensitive or potentially "illegal" (suicide information etc) material
See I don't consider these to be 'basic freedoms' at all. Freedoms yes but rather complicated ones, that may require discussion and clarifying by legislation. For example, do pedos have a right to be sexually attracted to children? I guess you can't control their thought processes, but if they act upon their fantasies then there has to be consequences.

I consider basic freedoms to be things like access to food and safe drinking water, access to education, health care, the rights to own property and start businesses, the right to feel safe and not have to live in fear. There are more, but to me it is those sort of rights that I would fight for, or get violent for if I really had to. However I don't think violence is right for something as comparably minor as video games, or certain sites on the internet. Perhaps if they started censoring educational texts, or things that questioned the government and things like that it would be different.
tequila
Posted 05:40pm 16/2/10
what lawful instructions am I disobeying by wanting to access pornography that contains small chested women?
some might call that discrimination
fpot
Posted 05:42pm 16/2/10
Did anyone confirm that was actually real? I never saw it published on anything even closely resembling reputable.

edit: the small breasted thing.
MatchFixa
Posted 05:44pm 16/2/10
See I don't consider these to be 'basic freedoms' at all. Freedoms yes but rather complicated ones, that may require discussion and clarifying by legislation. For example, do pedos have a right to be sexually attracted to children? I guess you can't control their thought processes, but if they act upon their fantasies then there has to be consequences. I consider basic freedoms to be things like access to food and safe drinking water, access to education, health care, the rights to own property and start businesses, the right to feel safe and not have to live in fear. There are more, but to me it is those sort of rights that I would fight for, or get violent for if I really had to. However I don't think violence is right for something as comparably minor as video games, or certain sites on the internet. Perhaps if they started censoring educational texts, or things that questioned the government and things like that it would be different.
I just wanted to say that for once i agree with f**pot, especially since i've experienced first hand what it's like not having access to the afromentioned 'basic freedoms'.
Scooter
Posted 05:51pm 16/2/10
Welcome to Palestine, since 1948.


Welcome to this thread where 95% of people are saying violence is a stupid idea.
S*** like this is very bad/stupid and is just going to provoke an unwanted response.

I think Teq has Minister Conroy and AG Atkinson mixed up.
L33tBix
Posted 05:54pm 16/2/10
Two words... DOUCHE BAG!
Seriously, I find it disgusting, evn amousing sometimes that someone who plays violent and suggestive games would go out and kill someone or commit any crime. I think anyone who would, was f***ed in the head already.

Some one please take the sticks out of his &$@.
Seven
Posted 06:19pm 16/2/10
I agree that the laws under contention aren't basic freedoms. Whether they are 'Basic Freedoms' is a strawman argument. The topic of discussion is that this one man (in a democratic system) is keeping his opinion as law.

He is over-generalising all people who play games as violent criminals. Just because we still have access to water and food and shelter and can start a business, does that mean the rest is all gravy and we should be happy with what we get handed?

I don't think so, I agree with fighting for what we want. The gov't is there to serve us, not to dictate to us. The majority want laws to put criminals in gaol, fine. One man wants to deny adults access to refused classification material (which in itself is arbitrary) - not fine.
GarG
Posted 06:31pm 16/2/10
I don't think that comparing a death threat at 2am to acting like a child is a valid comparison.

I don't know many children who hang outside peoples houses at 2am giving death threats.

But Ive sure heard of a lot of criminal entities doing it - Including bikies.

Perhaps the correct statement would be that 'we don't want to be framed as criminals?'

However i agree with your statement trog (autocorrect wants you to be tron - sweet), This is about adult ratings for adult gamers.

I worry that if someone in such a powerful, political position can extrapolate a tendency for violence from someone playing a violent game, What about people who travel to places like Vietnam (for example) for a holiday and fire an AK? does this make them shake and bake viet cong?
I just watched fight club (rated R, Think of the children!!), am i now going to be framed as a face smashing maniac with narcissistic tendencies? I hope the Australia i know doesn't believe this.......
reload!
Posted 06:35pm 16/2/10
IMO his family is in most danger from having a mentally challenged patriarch.
I'm quite glad that more of the dumb things he says are starting to get quoted in the news. Hopefully South Australian's who couldn't give a s*** about gaming still start to realise that they don't want this bloke as AG.
thermite
Posted 06:41pm 16/2/10
I dunno about you but after seeing Fight Club I wanted that pink bathrobe with the coffee cups on it, but then I realised that to buy that would go against the anti-consumerist message of the movie.
fpot
Posted 07:24pm 16/2/10
Whether they are 'Basic Freedoms' is a strawman argument. The topic of discussion is that this one man (in a democratic system) is keeping his opinion as law.
Well you can't really call me out on a strawman argument because I was only responding to teq's original use of the phrase and why I thought he was wrong.

I'll try and make my point one more final time. If this man or the Government was trying to take away any of the rights that I mentioned (water, food, education, rights to own property) then I would fully support any action against the Government to stop this happening. That would mean starting off trying to oppose it peacefully to finally picking up a gun and storming parliament house (an extreme example but you get my point)

However all this person is trying to do is censor the Internet (is he or is that someone else, doesn't matter anyway) and refusing to put a classification of R18+ forward for games. These are two things I am against, but only to the point of signing petitions and speaking out about it whenever I get the chance. However some people will obviously feel stronger, and peaceful protests, diplomatic action and any lawful process to speak out against it is something I fully support, and any person with half a brain would support whether they are for the censorship or not (that being the right to protest things to the full extent).

But violence and threats of violence is simply taking it too far. If all diplomatic avenues are exhausted and these laws still get passed then you've lost and you simply have to live with it. If you start acting out violently against these laws then that makes you a violent criminal and 100x worse in my eyes than any politician involved any any of these censorship plans.

last edited by fpot at 19:24:32 16/Feb/10
SnotOne
Posted 08:04pm 16/2/10
A laugh at Conroy's capacity as a politician and how he uses the oldest trick in the book to closely control adults. Freedom is not cheap in so many ways but God help us in a police state....Conroy's New World.

Was there proof of this letter and hows the investigation going ?
Gabby
Posted 08:20pm 16/2/10
i hope his kids hate his guts so much that he changes his f*****g mind....
trog
Posted 08:21pm 16/2/10
+1 fpot
Seven
Posted 08:25pm 16/2/10
I sincerely applaud the expression of your point of view fpot. I agree with you - mostly.

It does depend on the nature of the violence. I'd fully condone someone punching this man in the face if they saw him in the pub. Killing him? No. Threatening his family? No.

As thermite said, it is really hard not to act violently when one man stands in the way and he won't listen to anyone who disagrees with him. Actually, that's not true, but his actions are what counts.

It is actually quite similar to the kid not getting the toy and chucking a tantrum scenario. However in this case, the kid is an adult and all he/she wants is to get what everyone else in the world is getting, nothing more.
Gabby
Posted 08:26pm 16/2/10
also i play violent games (love my parents...dad is more addicted to fps than i am) my 'friend' things im on his maniac list because i enjoy games where you get to drill peoples heads in that are evil... And to all those people who are against videogame violence, take a look at the real world. It is more violent than a game could ever be.
stupid hippies.
windebieste
Posted 08:26pm 16/2/10
"As long as government is perceived as working for the benefit of children, the people happily will endure almost any curtailment of liberty." -Adolf Hitler.
deadlyf
Posted 08:43pm 16/2/10
I wouldn't lump an R rating for games in with internet censorship fpot when talking about basic rights. One thing I feel is a basic right is the freedom of information, it goes hand in hand with education and censoring the internet goes against that freedom.

A Government should not make criminals out of it's citizens without adequate cause. The result is oppression. Whether that oppression is great like having the freedom to religious expression or small like having the freedom to push pixels around on your PC, they all have meaning and they all have consequences. While violence in this case is certainly not warranted, it shouldn't mean that when they do their ratings review and Atkinson is still able to block it that we should lay down and comply. We have to continue to push the issue until they change their mind, otherwise the issue isn't worth pushing in the first place.

For me an R rating is more about correctly rating MA rated games that should be 18+ rather than stopping them from banning the steaming piles of s*** that they have banned so far. So I don't really see it personally as any sort of issue about freedom, the internet censorship on the other hand is another kettle of fish.
Seven
Posted 08:48pm 16/2/10
Nice first post windebieste
DM
Posted 08:51pm 16/2/10
When Hitler nails the whole topic perfectly, there should be a huge worry with people.
HERMITech
Posted 09:13pm 16/2/10
Australian Govt fast becoming Fascist.
Pharcyde
Posted 09:18pm 16/2/10
windebieste awesome postcount percentage = 100%

Stick around, guy.
Tollaz0r!
Posted 10:01pm 16/2/10
After the recent things that inter noobs have done, such as the vandalism of the facebook site, the letter under a door and the DDOS attack I would be surprised if Australia doesn't do its typical knee jerk reaction thing and bring the filter in.
Obes
Posted 10:34pm 16/2/10
When Hitler nails the whole topic perfectly, there should be a huge worry with people.


Why ?
He might have been a sociopathic liar with penchant for mass murder (but we are all gamers we love a good mass murder) but he was a smart politician.

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.


All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.


I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.



Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.


The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention.


The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.


The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.




My favourite is
Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized.

I reckon faceman would paint the sky green.
Jim
Posted 10:42pm 16/2/10
"Yabba dabba doo" - Fred Flintstone
Viper
Posted 10:54pm 16/2/10
On a side not, on many occasions he has mentioned that he is not the only AG opposed to the introduction of an R18+ rating for video games, however he never names which ones and he is the only one who has actually said no. All the other AGs have said that there should be an introduction, infact the Gamers4Croyden party even went as far as to send letters to all the AGs asking for their opinion and to my knowledge they all sent back a reply saying we support it so I really am curious that if he is going to keep saying that other AGs support him which ones? why aren't they voicing their opinion? and why have they agreed to introduce the rating if they oppose it?
Saint
Posted 10:55pm 16/2/10
Wow fpot is being serious and not trolling for once! I completely agree with his point of view too. If a politician goes against what the majority of the people want (ie not what they're really elected to do), they'll eventually get the boot (at least that's the theory in a democratic society).
Dazhel
Posted 11:07pm 16/2/10
Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized.




Upside down! Upside down!
Vash
Posted 11:15pm 16/2/10
Any form of censorship i am heavily against. The fact this man ignores the petitions of masses, is incredibly ignorant. He should not be in government.
The government is a servant of the people. Not the other way around.

Australians just dont seem to care when freedom is threatened. They will slowly let it go, until all that is left is our precious "water" and "electricity" which are both going up in price anyway.

There is more to life than basic freedoms, we want our f*****g violent video games, we want our uncensored internet.

Freedom is choice, and our choices are slowly being removed. My other primary hobby, Dirt biking, is soon to be extinct with the rapid expansion of national parks, more places for fires to burn intensely and threaten homes. Anyway, before i get sidetracked...

This guy cannot be voted out because he is in some random SA town noone gives a f*** about, with zero video gamers.

MatchFixa
Posted 11:20pm 16/2/10


last edited by MatchFixa at 23:20:11 16/Feb/10
Dazhel
Posted 11:29pm 16/2/10
Hmmm, somethings not right in that picture MatchFixa. I've always thought of Hitler as the kind of guy that would f*** a person in the ass and not even have the god-damn common courtesy to give him a reach-around.
HERMITech
Posted 12:49am 17/2/10
Prolly cause the body in that image thankfully doesn't have the right bits to said stuff

- I'm sorta torn with paying out on that obvious fail with dodgy layering over the chick and being grateful they didn't make it anatomically correct
Blue
Posted 12:53am 17/2/10
A lot of gamers are just mindless fools. Trolls on the internet, idiots in real life.
tequila
Posted 01:07am 17/2/10
But violence and threats of violence is simply taking it too far. If all diplomatic avenues are exhausted and these laws still get passed then you've lost and you simply have to live with it. If you start acting out violently against these laws then that makes you a violent criminal and 100x worse in my eyes than any politician involved any any of these censorship plans.


sure, if you're prepared to live in a place where s*** can be taken away from you unreasonably
yes, I'm saying its unreasonable that anyone should have the right to censor what I read - it's punishing innocent people and doing nothing to stop the guilty ones
it's not a governments job to decide what is best for its people, it is supposed to listen to what we want

if these laws got in and there was just no way to change it, simply copping it on the chin wouldn't be an option
something would most certainly have to be done - lucky for us some nutter will probably take care of this and we'll just reap the benefits

I don't think you understand just how much this censorship could change the entire course of every single persons life in Australia
I think to underestimate it's ability to change your life forever would be very naive
every inch of ground this thing gains is an inch we as a free society are losing, at what point do you say enough is enough?

last edited by tequila at 01:07:58 17/Feb/10
DM
Posted 01:26am 17/2/10
Upside down! Upside down!

Oh man the epic memories that came flooding back.

I have a question about the filter. If it indeed gets passed into law, what happens with youtube? What if they tell conroy to go f*** himself and they refuse to censor the site for us? Will they just blacklist youtube?

Also while we are letting loose some famous quotes,
"Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson

EDIT - Found a story on ZDnet about a filter going into place next month across the waters in NZ. Low and behold their filter is OPTIONAL, and only aims for child porn sites and not RC material like ours does.

Here

last edited by DM at 01:26:37 17/Feb/10
Dazhel
Posted 01:27am 17/2/10
A lot of gamerspeople are just mindless fools. Trolls on the internet, idiots in real life.


No need to get so specific.
Khel
Posted 02:59am 17/2/10
As much as I dislike Michael Atkinson and his stance on this whole issue, the people threatening him and his family and stalking him and shoving s*** under his door, are just f*****g retards, and are doing nothing but reinforce the image of gamers that Michael Atkinson has been pushing. They're not helping stand up for gamer's rights, or whatever else they think they're achieveing, they're just strengthening his case against us. Makes me feel dirty just being lumped into the same "gamer" category as people like that.
Bah
Posted 04:12am 17/2/10
Has anyone actually seen this "threatening" letter?
fpot
Posted 09:21am 17/2/10
I understand completely teq and I am anything but naive. You're just using the standard alarmist response to try and support your extremist opinion of 'violence is the answer'.

edit: can I just reiterate here that I am for an R18+ classification for games and strongly against the net filter? Probably the strongest I have ever been against anything put forward by a politician.

last edited by fpot at 09:21:10 17/Feb/10
MatchFixa
Posted 09:46am 17/2/10
every inch of ground this thing gains is an inch we as a free society are losing, at what point do you say enough is enough?
A bit like causing ripples AMIRITE?

Wtf are you doing fpot, i thought you would've been all over that. Why so serious?
tequila
Posted 10:14am 17/2/10
I haven't been violent, incited violence or condoned violence
all I'm saying is there will never be a point at which I just say "ok I guess I have to live with that" in relation to censorship or any of these issues really

I'd probably move to another country before I loaded a rifle, but I certainly won't just cop it on the chin
trog
Posted 10:50am 17/2/10
I haven't been violent, incited violence or condoned violence
all I'm saying is there will never be a point at which I just say "ok I guess I have to live with that" in relation to censorship or any of these issues really

I'd probably move to another country before I loaded a rifle, but I certainly won't just cop it on the chin
well, that just leads to the question - what, exactly, are you going to do about it now?

(if you could let me know where, so I'm not anywhere near it, that would be good to know too :)
tequila
Posted 10:56am 17/2/10
I think you've completely missed the point if you care about what I'm going to do
you should only care about what you are going to do when they censor something you really care enough about to get all uppity

seriously, you might go "oh well its just some r18+ games now"
12 months from now you might be like "oh well its just some political activists website that was filtered because he was anti-establishment"
2 years it might be well "I dont really care about euthenasia I guess"
but what happens when they take away something you really care about, all under the guise of "protecting us"

trog
Posted 10:57am 17/2/10
but you quite clearly said there'll never be a point at which you say you'll just lie down and take it specifically in regards to censorship
tequila
Posted 11:46am 17/2/10
yes, I and I won't?

I would either;

a) move countries
b) fight it on a political level (less likely, I don't have bajillions of dollars)
c) take part in civil actions, doing what I can where I can (yes, I mean like 4chan/anon)
d) train ninja monkies (or Ben Stiller) to take the head of the political beast
SueyJitSu
Posted 11:53am 17/2/10
d! go with d!
ravn0s
Posted 11:57am 17/2/10

Although R18+ DVDs are already available, computer games involve the player in an interactive role where they become the character doing the killing, raping, beating or sexual activity. An example of a currently banned game that would be allowed into Australia is a Japanese creation where the player is encouraged to gang rape and beat young women. Other games involve first person playing where the player takes the role of torturing or mutilating people.


http://www.nor18games.com.au/


Viper
Posted 12:23pm 17/2/10
ravn0s

If you have read through the actual classifications act you would see that one of the things that deems something (including movies) to be RC is sexual violence this is quite clearly stated in the act however
it seems to be something that the AG keeps brushing over as if it never existed.
ravn0s
Posted 12:26pm 17/2/10
i know that. i just posted that because i thought it was hilarious.
trog
Posted 12:28pm 17/2/10
yes, I and I won't?

I would either;

a) move countries
b) fight it on a political level (less likely, I don't have bajillions of dollars)
c) take part in civil actions, doing what I can where I can (yes, I mean like 4chan/anon)
d) train ninja monkies (or Ben Stiller) to take the head of the political beast
so we're back to my first question - which one of those are you actually going to do
Vash
Posted 01:02pm 17/2/10
I'd be moving country. SE Asia is like living in the 70s but with modern technology.
= Freedom. Or some random european country with mountains. I like my mountains.

Come on, Internet censorship, and small tits ban? The stupidly over enforced roads, obsession with safety and omg think of the children.
And the general apathy of the Australian public.

Pauline hanson sees it.
thermite
Posted 01:03pm 17/2/10
Pauline Hanson and Hitler seem to be the only ones that know what they're doing.
fpot
Posted 01:38pm 17/2/10
Well then teq we are in complete agreeance in appropriate actions on how to oppose this censorship. Except I'd go with robot ninja monkeys.
neffo
Posted 02:02pm 17/2/10

to: attorney-general@agd.sa.gov.au
subject: Current video-game classification system

Dear Sir,

I am writing to you to express my support for your current stand against the proposed R18+ video game content classification.
<snip>
Spook
Posted 02:08pm 17/2/10
a) move countries
b) fight it on a political level (less likely, I don't have bajillions of dollars)
c) take part in civil actions, doing what I can where I can (yes, I mean like 4chan/anon)
d) train ninja monkies (or Ben Stiller) to take the head of the political beast

e) get a lawyer for 3k a day and sue somebody
tequila
Posted 02:36pm 17/2/10
proably be more for going up against govt
3k is merely traffic infringments !

e-gads man, this could get expensive

nah I would probably move somewhere that considers my amount of personal wealth "rich"
ie, in Australia I'm middle-class
in Thailand I'd be royalty
???
profit


also I could roll in my benz and it would bring all the ladies boys to my yard, and they'd be like omg wheres thermite
DM
Posted 03:13pm 17/2/10
An example of a currently banned game that would be allowed into Australia is a Japanese creation where the player is encouraged to gang rape and beat young women

The game would be rapelay, and I doubt anyone here would want to buy said game anyway. Besides, the only reason anyone even knows about that is some stupid f*****g femenist group kicked up a stink about it (2+ years after the game had been released mind you). Oh and while i'm at it, where were these women when 16 year old girls were being burried alive because they were talking to boys? That game was made by a japanese company, for japanese people who are into that stuff. Far as I know it was never even sold out side of japan.

Anyway I got off track there. My point is, saying the filter will protect us from these games as they would suddenly become a huge problem is bulls*** as chances are if you wanted to play these wierd games, you would already HAVE them on your pc thanks to the wonders of ISOs and bittorrent. Nothing but a huge troll site IMO. Only reason I can see for a ligitimate arguement against R18+ rating for games is that as games continue to get better in the graphics department, so does the violence become more realistic. There are f*****g morons out there who can't distinguish fact from fiction so they think its ok to do s*** like in the games. But that is what? Mabye 0.5% of the population?

last edited by DM at 15:13:23 17/Feb/10
trog
Posted 03:47pm 17/2/10
Mabye 0.5% of the population?
I hope not, that would be over 100,000 people
Viper
Posted 03:57pm 17/2/10
I do not get why Rapelay or any kind of rape simulator keeps getting mentioned sexual violence in a video game is a straight away no no and it gets RC this would not change with the introduction of an R18+ rating and even if it did I could almost guarentee you that no retail outlet would EVER have it on their shelves much the same as Coles doesn't have Debbie does Dallas on their budget dvd rack.
DM
Posted 04:14pm 17/2/10
Exactly. So saying they are trying to protect kids from these games coming into australia is bulls*** as no one would stock them to begin with.

Well if 0.5% of the population is over 100,000 people then it would be even less. like around 0.1%.
Seven
Posted 04:15pm 17/2/10
Agreeance is not a word, agreement is.

Trog, what are you going to do?
Scooter
Posted 04:17pm 17/2/10
I think it's pretty clear from Trogs posts that he's supporting EFA.

Like giving them free press (in the form of Topic/posts) on sites he runs/maintains.
Vash
Posted 04:23pm 17/2/10
Trog's stance on everything is just not giving a f***.
So he's in the apathetic Australian crowd.
taggs
Posted 04:30pm 17/2/10
Agreeance is not a word, agreement is.


nah, they're both words. agreeance fell out of common usage a couple of centuries ago though so if it is listed in modern dictionaries it will often say it's obsolete or a bastardisation of agreement.

fpot
Posted 06:41pm 17/2/10
I think agreeance sounds cooler :)
fpot
Posted 06:46pm 17/2/10
Trog's stance on everything is just not giving a f***.
So he's in the apathetic Australian crowd.
See this is something that pisses me off. The notion that if you aren't in the pitchfork waving flag burning crowd you don't give a f*** and man, you're naive and ignorant and stuff!

F*****g wake up to yourself.
tequila
Posted 08:12pm 17/2/10
how about the fact that laws like this can get through just because the vast majority actually doesn't care enough to do anything about it?
or how they can make such huge changes to our country (censorship) and if you asked a random handful of strangers in a westfield, a lot of them would have never even heard about the internet filter

I know this isn't the fault of the government, but how can we continue to allow such enormous changes without asking everyone what they think?
this is a technological age, surely it's only a matter of time before they get with the times too and everyone can have equal input into the way things are done
if you ask me, the need for a federal government is slowly disappearing with the increasing ability of the populous to be on the 'net 24x7

my idea is basically ask everyone what they think, instead of expecting that the people should have to run a candidate against them just to voice their opinion on a subject
this almost always brings out a few crazies, sometimes even the odd DDoS
if you had an app on your phone that enabled you to cast a vote on something that you've registered your interest in, it removes the need for expensive political campaigns, advertising, misinformation and slander attacks etc
if you care but dont want to have to vote every time something comes up, register your interest and set up your phone to always vote behind the individual/senator/business-man/campaign leader/whoever you want to vote for

I know this is never going to happen, but it would be nice
those in power want to stay in power /rant

I explained to my old man what they were going to ban and what had been going on etc, his face was priceless when I said there was talks of banning small breasted women in porn

what really worries me is how this one man can wield so much power from his little seat
fpot
Posted 08:19pm 17/2/10
I am calling fake on the small breasted thing. A quick google shows no reputable source publishing the story, and there is also this crikey article saying it is fake.
thermite
Posted 08:37pm 17/2/10
it's not fake, there is something to it, it's one of the factors they use to judge whether a person look under 18, but it's not the only thing they look for, there was an interview with a guy from the censorship board in 4ZZZ.
fpot
Posted 08:44pm 17/2/10
But the 'small breasted women are banned from porn' is not true and is just another typical sensationalisation from the pitchfork crowd. Their official stance is that they consider the overall look of the woman.
tequila
Posted 08:50pm 17/2/10
its irrelivant if the size of the breast in question plays any part what so ever
if she's 18, she is legal and should not be forbidden from doing porn to fill the empty void left by an abusive childhood
Vash
Posted 08:55pm 17/2/10
See this is something that pisses me off. The notion that if you aren't in the pitchfork waving flag burning crowd you don't give a f*** and man, you're naive and ignorant and stuff!

F*****g wake up to yourself.


I don't see ourselves with pitchforks, nor burning flags...
Simply voicing our displeasure at this politician we have no power to remove. All we can do is convince people in SA not to vote for him. So if that doesn't work, what next? Just take it?
fpot
Posted 09:01pm 17/2/10
The classfication boards official stance is that if a girl is dressed up to look like she is underage (which would be things like putting her in a schoolgirl outfit, piggy tails, licking a lollipop and yes having small tits) then they will ban it in an effort to stop the promotion of underage girls doing porn. And you are against this to the point of long winded Internet posts and ranting to your dad enough to invoke a priceless expression from him?

Yeah you keep fighting the good fight tiger.

I don't see ourselves with pitchforks, nor burning flags...
Simply voicing our displeasure at this politician we have no power to remove. All we can do is convince people in SA not to vote for him. So if that doesn't work, what next? Just take it?
It's called a joke.

And what next? I dunno, you tell me. I've already said that if all diplomatic avenues of protest are exhausted and the laws still get passed then we've lost. I guess after that you could appeal the laws and keep fighting that way?

The real question is what are you doing about it now? You seem to be so enraged about it, and threatening to take further action if the laws do go through. Yet all I see from you are angry face internet posts about it.

last edited by fpot at 21:01:14 17/Feb/10
deadlyf
Posted 09:34pm 17/2/10
>:(

I still think it's s*** that people are confusing the R rating issue with internet censorship. The R rating thing is as if you were born without arms, you've never known life any other way and you deal with it. The internet censorship thing is like someone has decided that you can't be trusted with your arms because you might accidentally use them to access a porn site so they want to cut them of. It's kinda ok though, because with a VPN we can get shiny new robotic arms and become like gods to the lesser beings living without their fleshy appendages.
DM
Posted 11:16am 18/2/10
This sort of story only hurts the cause... kinda. 27 year old guy is playing WoW at home when his mum asks him to quiet down as there are grandkids trying to sleep. He ignores her so she comes over and taps him on the shoulder. He goes insane, grabs his mum by the hair and throws her over the bed. she runs to the kitchen to call 911 and manages to get ahold of them before he comes and tears the phone cord out of the wall and rams his head into the wall. Then he starts choking her until his grandma comes and gets the gun in the house and shoots. him. Oh and he had been drinking too. Why am I not surprised. Yet another alcohol induced rage almost leading to yet another death and we are trying to restrict gaming?
Spook
Posted 11:19am 18/2/10
Yet another alcohol induced rage almost leading to yet another death and we are trying to restrict gaming?


you idiot, its so obvious this was entirely wow's fault
DM
Posted 11:21am 18/2/10
Only way to stop this happening here is to ban wow!
trog
Posted 11:26am 18/2/10
Trog's stance on everything is just not giving a f***.
So he's in the apathetic Australian crowd.
how on earth do you figure that, have you ever read anything I've ever written?
trog
Posted 11:28am 18/2/10
how about the fact that laws like this can get through just because the vast majority actually doesn't care enough to do anything about it?
Any why don't they care enough? Because when they turn on the mainstream news, they see things on the ABC saying gamers wrote death threat letters to politicians who are trying to enforce laws about games because he's worried they could encourage violent behaviour

hence, this news post
Spook
Posted 11:30am 18/2/10
i saw channel 9 was going hardcore about how gaming is killing our kids last nite.

made me sick to my stomach
trog
Posted 11:41am 18/2/10
Agreeance is not a word, agreement is.

Trog, what are you going to do?
Well, I guess you mean aside from all the promotion and attention I've brought to the issue via AusGamers with my incessant posting on the issue, and the co-sponsoring of the EFA's submission on R18 games that I helped organise - I'm also going to fill out the R18 response form, and write a letter to my local member. I actually have these actions scheduled in my calendar for next week (along with a last-minute drive for the cause; submissions close at the end of next week).

I'm also going to remember this issue when voting time comes and find out the stance of my local representative options to make sure they're interested in increasing my civil rights. Also I'm going to ask them their stance on free cookies for all citizens.
tequila
Posted 12:10pm 18/2/10
and if everything else failed, you were forced to live in a country where we are censored .. then what would you do?
Reverend Evil
Posted 12:23pm 18/2/10
A THREATENING note allegedly written by a video gamer was delivered to Michael Atkinson's house more than a year ago.

It is not known if police investigated the threat. South Australia Police did not respond to enquiries.

That is the opening paragraph of the story on the main page of news dot com. I thought it happened just recently, although it doesn't make it any less threatening. But the way he's talking it sounds recent or he could have made the whole f*****g thing up.
trog
Posted 12:25pm 18/2/10
and if everything else failed, you were forced to live in a country where we are censored .. then what would you do?
Well this news post is about R18 games - if we "lose" the fight for R18 games, we're going to be in exactly the same boat we are now. The R18 games issue isn't about the possibility of more censorship coming down upon us, really - it's about removing the censorship that already exists. So we're already living in a country where we're already censored, and what I'm doing are all the things I outlined above.
Spook
Posted 02:40pm 18/2/10
and if everything else failed, you were forced to live in a country where we are censored .. then what would you do?

id be upset, but i certainly woudlnt be moving anywhere else.

id change how i vote, possibly tell my local member that ive changed how i vote and circumvent what they put in place until a time it was removed.
thermite
Posted 03:11pm 18/2/10
Does anyone notice something about these consecutive quotes from Michael Atkinson?


"Those lobbying for an R18+ category for interactive games have put a threatening message made entirely from individual letters cut from different magazine headlines and glued to a page underneath my door between 2am and 2.30am," he said.

"Those lobbying for an R18+ category have spammed my electorate office email by subscribing me to dozens of email feeds from US Government agencies without my consent.

"Those lobbying for an R18+ category for games have attacked my Wikipedia entry and added fictitious material purportedly about my childhood and claimed that I have a different sexuality from the one I actually have.

"Those lobbying for an R18+ category have disseminated criminally defamatory emails claiming that I am a paedophile, among other things, and defaming my children.


Michael Atkinson details video gamer threats
tequila
Posted 03:22pm 18/2/10
so its cool for him to call other people pedophiles but heaven forbid if someone does it to him
Kamu
Posted 04:53pm 18/2/10
Apparently this is the letter: http://i.imgur.com/CeACw.png

Taken from http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/02/16/2820930.htm

I got this off slashdot, and I am unsure if the video (haven't watched it yet) is a silly recreation?
DM
Posted 05:06pm 18/2/10
Ah man that video was a great laugh. I couldn't see what the note said but it looked like it said "can I has r18 rating plz?" Surely that can't be the letter he is talking about can it? If it is, all I can say is f*****g LOL.
Kamu
Posted 05:10pm 18/2/10
Well, the magazine cut letters does give a threatening look, but the content of the letter is really harmless.

"Hi Mick, can i has r18 rating plz kthxbai"
demon
Posted 05:14pm 18/2/10
heh it'd be pretty funny if that is the 'threatening' letter... especially given his comparison to bikie gangs. :D
HERMITech
Posted 05:40pm 18/2/10
^ Maybe it's the literacy level that confounds him?
Bah
Posted 05:43pm 18/2/10
I got this off slashdot, and I am unsure if the video (haven't watched it yet) is a silly recreation?
Are you retarded? Of course its a recreation, you think Atkinson has a camera set up pointed at the bottom of his door just in case someone puts a note under it?
Kamu
Posted 05:54pm 18/2/10
Are YOU retarded or just can't read? I said I haven't seen it yet. It could be a photo for all I know.
Bah
Posted 05:56pm 18/2/10
So you didn't look at the screen cap either?
thermite
Posted 06:06pm 18/2/10
the video has nothing to do with the photo
Kamu
Posted 06:24pm 18/2/10
From the screencap I can not tell for certain that a) the letter is a recreation or b) that is not a front door.

Anyway, it is likely that the letter does not even exist, this guy has a history of lying and distorting facts to support his agenda. Why no police report? Why no copy of the letter? How did he know it was 2:00am (was he really up at 2:00am?)?
Bah
Posted 07:05pm 18/2/10
The photo is a screen cap from good game where they showed the note going under the door during the atkinson interview.

I also have doubts as to the existence and or harshness of this letter.

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