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Post by trog @ 06:36pm 16/10/08 | 41 Comments
GamesIndustry.biz have an article summarising a recent interview with Blizzard's COO, Paul Sams, looking at the effects Warhammer Online had on World of Warcraft:
Q: Did you notice a drop off in World of Warcraft users when Warhammer Online launched?

Paul Sams: Not significantly, we've certainly had some of that happen, which is the same thing we experienced with Age of Conan and each time an MMO has come out we've seen some amount of reduction of use. The good news is that we've seen a significant number of people, well over half, that cited Warhammer as their reason for leaving - they've already returned.
The full interview is worth a read as well.



warhammerworld of warcraft





Latest Comments
CSIRAC
Posted 06:45pm 16/10/08
If the movement of my guild was anything to go by, its pretty much true.

Usual pre-expansion blues/burnout and ppl started flaking out and going off finding other stuff to do. Obviously that demographic turned to WAR.

After about a month of so only the die hard fans are still raving on about it, and the lesser die hard fans are now slightly bored because WAR seems unfinished and so they're looking at WOTLK.

Seems the largest criticism that players have had of both AoC and WAR is that both games were unfinished and rushed out. Once players reached the level cap they had no motive to keep playing, so didnt bother resubbing. That, I think is where blizzard beats their competition; constantly dangling something new in front of their subscribers until the next expansion comes. It might sound pretty logical, but both AoC and WAR have failed in that regard.
Reverend Evil
Posted 07:17pm 16/10/08
Very cool interview.

Just yesterday when the new WoW update came out there was a queue on Eldre Thalas, something I haven't seen for a long time. So I can only imagine once Lich King arrives the servers are gonna be going f*****g crazy.

But yeah, I do feel sorry for anyone that goes up against WoW at the moment. No matter what you think about the game they've made one of the best things I've ever played and I remember when it first got released I swore I'd never pay to play a game online. Everything about it is top notch, well maybe not arenas but I don't bother with that stuff.
greazy
Posted 07:44pm 16/10/08
Seems the largest criticism that players have had of both AoC and WAR is that both games were unfinished and rushed out. Once players reached the level cap they had no motive to keep playing, so didnt bother resubbing. That, I think is where blizzard beats their competition; constantly dangling something new in front of their subscribers until the next expansion comes. It might sound pretty logical, but both AoC and WAR have failed in that regard.
It's sad to think that EA had some part to play in it.

EA is f*****g us again.
Raisty
Posted 07:56pm 16/10/08
Once players reached the level cap they had no motive to keep playing


That's a weird thing to say about War from what I've seen so far

Given there's Tier 4 Keep/Fortress taking, City Raiding, King Fights (RvR wise)
As well as 3+ Tiers of PvE dungeon content at level cap

I'd have said there's a pretty good spread of end game content for a game that's only been out for less than a month.


Likewise

That, I think is where blizzard beats their competition; constantly dangling something new in front of their subscribers


I would have thought announcing a content patch adding the 4 removed classes and 4 capital cities was a pretty good dangling of new stuff in the near future.
greazy
Posted 08:08pm 16/10/08
Still though Raisty, you can't argue that the game was not rushed.
CSIRAC
Posted 08:23pm 16/10/08
raisty: you're right, war was a bit different. but still failed on the same grounds. when I said that ppl got to the lvl cap and gave up. it was more of a general term to describe the lack of anything to do..if that makes any sense. The lvling curb; unlike recent mmo's, in war is huuuuuuuge. actually getting to 40 is quite the achievement. I've seen more than a few players give up going for 40 because they either got bored doing the same s*** over and over but also asking them selves, wtf am I going to do once I just ground my d*** to 40?

For the people who are 40, they are now focusing on pve'ing to get gear war's pve is quite substandard when compared to wow.

I would have thought announcing a content patch adding the 4 removed classes and 4 capital cities was a pretty good dangling of new stuff in the near future.


we'll see how good that carrot is come WOTLK.
Raisty
Posted 08:50pm 16/10/08
Greazy: Some parts seem a bit non-tuned/buggy. However I'd have to say I am impressed with how well fleshed the content is from 1 - 35 (and by the looks of it to 40). And in most cases the lack of bugs I've encountered.

actually getting to 40 is quite the achievement


Not sure I'd say an achievement, I think out of any MMO I've played War has been the easiest/actually enjoyable for leveling.

Hit some quests, do some RvR, and poke around for some Tome unlocks. Seems to do a good job of keeping things interesting, and the fact that RvR is such a good way to level is a pleasant change from the WoW questing grind till level cap.
Tollaz0r!
Posted 09:08pm 16/10/08
My guess at why people flock back to WoW is because they don't want to realize that the many, many months pumped into WoW characters would get thrown down the drain.
greazy
Posted 09:24pm 16/10/08
Tyco at penny arcade had something interesting to say about the game:
I'm not toiling toward some ultimate goal. There's no endgame for me, there's just... game. A good game. It's kind of refreshing.
This combined with what a friend told me, "once you enter the game don't compare it to WoW" makes me want to get it right now. A lot of people in WoW level to reach endgame to play the game when you should be just gaming. Even when you reach endgame you should still be gaming.

Gonna get this hopefully friends are still playing it.
Saint
Posted 09:27pm 16/10/08
For the people who are 40, they are now focusing on pve'ing to get gear war's pve is quite substandard when compared to wow


WAR was never really focussed on PVE, so of course it would be substandard :) WoW is definitely more polished than WAR, but WAR is more geared towards rvr/pvp which is what I personally prefer.
CSIRAC
Posted 09:44pm 16/10/08
Point in case; players are now focusing on a part of a game that, as you put it, wasn't supposed to be focused on.
ravn0s
Posted 09:51pm 16/10/08
yer im finding with war that im just taking my time playing the game and enjoying it rather than rushing to level 40 like i did with daoc. with war i actually want to see and explore as much of the world as possible whilst leveling instead of grinding in one area to reach max level. plus im having too much fun in the tier 2 scenarios to outlevel them.
Haklin
Posted 10:49pm 16/10/08
Man...your all on digital crack!!! Digital crack I tell ya's!
Ridah
Posted 11:41pm 16/10/08
I think when then company you are working for is owned by Vivendi SA you have to be careful with what you say in regards to 'competition'.

There are elements in WoW which are fun, the same goes for WAR. I play WAR as I find the rvr aspect to be a lot of fun.

While WAR has a low level cap keep in mind that it also has the renown rank system. Once a player reaches level 40 they can then work towards renown rank 80. Renown rank experience is earned only through rvr (pvp).

I wouldn't be calling this game a failure until EA/Mythic start advertising that they are consolidating servers. I am only level 22 in this game but from what I have seen I think it has the makings to keep its player base coming back for more for a while to come.

wellwellwell
Posted 09:25am 17/10/08
IMO, WAR was far more polished at release then WOW was 2-3 months after release, I remember the servers crashing upto 10-15 time on weekends for about 4 weeks.
So don't compare WAR now to a 3 yr old WoW.
paveway
Posted 09:29am 17/10/08
Man...your all on digital crack!!! Digital crack I tell ya's!


yeah it's called wow
TicMan
Posted 09:43am 17/10/08
Only played WAR for a few hours and it's a brilliant game.. rather than waiting until you get to level 60 before being able to do anything, you start playing at level 1.

Makes quite a difference when you just want to be entertained with a game instead of grinding out the loots in WoW.
Spook
Posted 10:36am 17/10/08
ticman, im worried about you:

you seem to have an addictive (to mmorgs) personality;
Jim
Posted 10:49am 17/10/08
wow is a very polished game and is very pve-centric even though you can fight other players in certain conditions. wow wasn't that polished when it came out which I know cos I level-capped a mage in beta and played to about level 45 after release. there was a fair bit of issue with queues and server availability, at least on the server I was on which was blackrock or something like that. but yeh it doesn't suprise me to see people either staying with wow outright, or going back to it. not because of any major fault of warhammer imo, just because it caters more to the pve content crowd and does it very well.

mythic are less focused on pve, although daoc did have more and more decent pve encounters added over time it was still a realm vs realm game primarily - like warhammer. warhammer is lacking in dungeon type pve imo and even I'd like to see a bit more of that type of content myself even though I prefer pvp for the most part.

I think warhammer was probably a little rushed but essentially it's ready for release - it's quite stable as a client, the server platform is very stable, their downtime routine is really good and they properly cater to us oceanic people by both putting servers physically in australia and limiting or even avoiding downtime in our primetime wherever possible. they are also handling community feedback well imo and basically showing funcom how it's done in pretty much all areas. in fact likening it to age of conan is really unfounded imo.

I've only just hit 40 in warhammer so we'll see how long the endgame keeps me occupied. as I've mentioned already there's not a lot of interesting pve to do but I'm sure it'll come. I'm more interested in the realm vs realm aspect which I've dabbled in while levelling (am only realm rank 22) but it's been a lot of fun so far. getting womped in pugs in scenarios/bgs has been a bit offputting but once the guildies get to 40 I won't need to languish in pugs anymore =]

TicMan
Posted 11:09am 17/10/08
you seem to have an addictive (to mmorgs) personality;


:D They are the only type of game that interests me these days.. and guitar hero. But I only do 1 MMO at a time so WoW has been cancelled while I'm playing War. I've only had a few hours this week to play - GG to the mother in law for flying down for a visit the same week I get a new game :|
Spook
Posted 11:13am 17/10/08
say no more!
cept when the inlaws come to my place, they live in my cave/computar room :(
Hyperslide
Posted 12:00pm 17/10/08
I played WOW when it first came out and it took over my life (so to speak) for 2 years, The game was played to death, I conquered NAXX and took on BC and got to 70 and all that jazz...I recently came back to the game and lasted 5 days that's all 5 days ...Its still the same hasn't changed and well seemed bloody boring compared to real life ...its amazing how once you lose the addiction to a MMORPG and then come back what you actually see .... and what I have seen out of MMORPG's of late is nothing new nor competitive to the WOW Juggernaut but WOW needs a revamp by the looks of things and I am not talking content the graphical engine just seems so old now.... maybe I have just lost touch with mmorpg's I dunno ....sigh

So I suppose w3hat i am asking/saying is ... Will WOW ever redo itself and start on a fresh slate i.e WOW v2 ?? cause as nice as an expansion pack is its just not doing it for me to bring me back
CSIRAC
Posted 12:13pm 17/10/08
When their stats show expacks aren't pulling in the numbers and the game is stale as dog poo.

If anything, blizz might even have something else in production.
Draxy
Posted 01:28pm 17/10/08
Long story alert =]

I've played WoW since beta and still enjoy it. I still remember the first time I went as a party into The Deadmines instance as an alliance mage. The scripted story elements and the epic scale of it was quite overwhelming at the time. When we blasted open the door and saw a giant pirate ship in a huge cavern (Goonies FTW) our whole group was professing undying adoration for the game. Over time it was realised that the game starts at 60, but that first instance always held its charm for me. A little while on and I had achieved most of what I could in the game (finished the high end content which was my main goal). I started to focus on PvP and pushed a Destro Lock before players like DrakeDog recorded their first video (not saying I was better, just I wanted to be different from all the demo locks). When BC came out I was in a line at midnight at EB =] It was alot of fun, racing home playing into the night as the next day I didnt have work.

It was at this point that alot of my friends stopped playing, with reasons like "taking up too much time", "affecting my uni work" etc. I was surprised and figured they were exaggerating, but then similar stuff started flooding conversations I had with friends. I found it quite sad that people were putting WoW above their normal lives and stuff. I myself spent about 1-2 hours playing a night (far less than my starcraft or even Warcraft 3 playtime). These people were playing for 6+ hours after getting home from work/uni. Some were simply not going to work/uni to play it. It was then that I admitted to myself that the game could be very bad for people who became addicted to it. I never considered myself addicted. The longest I'd spent was a weekend or two where a raid went for a few hours. I thought my friends just sucked at managing their time and used WoW as an excuse for failing at life. Not one of them considering cutting down their playtime, they all wanted clean breaks, which I thought was just stupid at the time. As all my friends left, I decided I would have a break too. I wasn't having any negative repercussions like other players, but there was little to stay for at that point.

13 months later, some friends at work invited me to get back into PvP with them and I took them up on it. Forming an arena team on a new server. I found I raced through the levels and was at 70 in about 12 days playtime (researching before playing is the key). I have been playing arena since and find I like it a lot. I do the new content as it arrives as I have an experienced guild as well.

So when I downloaded this latest patch and saw that bone dragon fly onto screen, I wondered if some of my old mates who played would come back... but also hoped they didn't become addicted and over indulge in the game. I really think people think of different things when you say things like "joe blow is addicted to WoW". There's addicted where you enjoy the game and get alot out of it and would rather play it then other offerings. Then there is addicted where you are a slave to it - obsessed - at the sacrifice of things in your life.

So in the end, I think WoW is great and will be playing the latest offering when it rolls out with enthusiasm. But I wouldn't call myself an addict, just someone who enjoys the game. I feel sorry for those who are truly addicted though and hope they realise in time what WoW can do to them.
casa
Posted 02:15pm 17/10/08
I think what it comes down to is, WOW players are pve f**ots who love controlled environments, and WAR players are big-d***ed psychos who play to kill people.

Saying "lol u can kill people in WOW" is like saying "Although I loved having sex with my dad as a child, I much prefer it now I am more experienced"
ravn0s
Posted 02:17pm 17/10/08
^^ lol

pvping in praag during war beta was the most fun ive ever had in an mmo.
Lithium
Posted 04:40pm 17/10/08
I think this guy from Blizzard is making s*** up.

Raider
Posted 07:19pm 17/10/08
I was hoping war would work, but after playing it (i managed to get lvl 27) i was over it pretty quickly. The game is completely caster dominated and snares are ridiculous in it, knock backs make or break scenarios rather then actual skill. Not to mention t3 / t4 keeps require massive warbands just to defeat, got forbid if there's more then 10-15 people defending then it's just like beating your head against a wall.

Lots of bugs to, i thought they'd iron stuff out a lot.. but it just goes to show they rushed through open beta wayyy to fast.
Varchld
Posted 07:21pm 17/10/08
Yea, I think Paul Sams is lying through his teeth.
It's a shame there's no real way to prove it.
...
Then again I think there are occasional blizz employees who while browsing other mmo forums just make negetive posts about the relevent mmo just for the sake of it.
CSIRAC
Posted 07:28pm 17/10/08
^
lol
Jim
Posted 08:19pm 17/10/08
that's the whole idea of a keep raider - it's easier to defend than attack. 'massive warband' though? false
Khel
Posted 09:03pm 17/10/08
Then again I think there are occasional blizz employees who while browsing other mmo forums just make negetive posts about the relevent mmo just for the sake of it.


Yeah, because some random low level customer support person posting on a forum, is EXACTLY like the Chief Operating Officer of the company giving an interview.

A lot (if not all) the people I know who bought WAR, are back in WoW again now. That doesn't mean they've all stopped playing WAR, some of them are balancing both games, but the point of this article is that people who left WoW, came back and in my personal experience, thats proven pretty true. Actually, I thought 50% was a pretty conversative number, I expected it to be higher.
evıs
Posted 09:32pm 17/10/08
I gave WAR a shot and have played wow on and off a couple times since release. This new patch has made it a bit fun again now that I am in a newly formed guild with rl ppl I know we can finally give the high end instances a crack before wotlk goes live. WAR seems like quite a good game however it just didn't capture me as much as I had hoped after thoroughly enjoying the rvr in daoc back in the day. So I am one of the ones who left wow to try war and came back to wow since it's not that I hated the game, it just got stale for a little while there with the impending expansion. Personally I am quite excited with the expansion as ALOT of fun stuff is being implemented and can't wait to give it a crack!

Both good games. Wow is just more appealing to me since I enjoy pve and pvp.
Taipan
Posted 11:23pm 17/10/08
Well from my personal experience every last one of the people I know that left wow for war have stayed with War. Not one them has even mentioned wow since they started War and to be honest if I didn't know better you could almost be fooled into thinking wow never even existed.

DM
Posted 01:46am 18/10/08
There are things I like about WAR that I think WoW will never accomplish or even even hope to meet. Likewise there are things in WoW that WAR will not do. However if it wasn't for a friend wanting me to come back to WoW so much that she GAVE me 1 of her accounts with it payed for for 4 months, and in her raiding guild I wouldn't be going back at all. I'd stick with WAR for sure If I could find a decent guild or someone I knew joined
ravn0s
Posted 11:28am 18/10/08
I'd stick with WAR for sure If I could find a decent guild or someone I knew joined


what server are you on? theres a qgl guild on ironclaw

jim: holy s*** black guard and kotbs in december. might have to drop my BO for the BG

last edited by ravn0s at 10:28:18 18/Oct/08
TicMan
Posted 11:30am 18/10/08
What side is the QGL lads?
icewyrm
Posted 11:46am 18/10/08
The qgl one is only destro though right?
ravn0s
Posted 12:14pm 18/10/08
yep we on destro
DM
Posted 12:28pm 18/10/08
what server are you on?

I honestly can't remember it's been a few days since I logged on. I think i'm on ironclaw, or at least have a character there. Dest I think.
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