Post by Dan @ 02:21pm 03/06/08 | 83 Comments
What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for Valve to be unlocking one class' achivements at a time? Were you annoyed when there was servers full of medics last time? Guesses on what the pyro's unlocks might be?
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Posted 02:34pm 03/6/08
The servers full of medics rocked because I was dropping critbombz all over the joint because I was the only soldier/heavy in the server!
Pyro is a fun class they will probably throw a rocket propelled flame gun or something similar in there. Lots of people have been talking about an ability to drop an oil patch and light it up. Or kamikaze explosion.
Posted 02:36pm 03/6/08
last edited by ravn0s at 14:36:50 03/Jun/08
Posted 02:45pm 03/6/08
Posted 03:03pm 03/6/08
Posted 03:05pm 03/6/08
Posted 03:09pm 03/6/08
hope he gets some molotovs!!@!#
Posted 07:30pm 03/6/08
last edited by Phooks at 19:30:39 03/Jun/08
Posted 05:47pm 03/6/08
Posted 07:01pm 03/6/08
F*** yeah.
Elsewise, i don't like them doing this one at a time, it doesn't make sure it's balanced, atm medics are way OP.
as for what gun should the pyro get, i'm more of a fan of xtra long range flame thrower, or a molotov, not a huge fan of the oil on ground thing, but i think it's most likely.
Posted 07:06pm 03/6/08
Also, the only way they can f*** this up is to release spy achievements at the same time :)
last edited by parabol at 19:06:11 03/Jun/08
Posted 07:19pm 03/6/08
That would be awesome! DO IT
Posted 07:24pm 03/6/08
Posted 07:25pm 03/6/08
+ it's a heavies dream
Posted 07:30pm 03/6/08
Posted 07:36pm 03/6/08
One of the TF2 devs. posted on SA, in vague fashion, about a couple of those points:
On the pyro unlock side of things, the only decent idea I have seen is a shotgun change where instead of buckshot, it fires a slug which causes the aterburn on ignited enemies to kind of explode/combust doing instant dmg. It is a good idea because it builds on the weakness of the pyro at range, without giving it a long range weapon. (The slug would do nominal dmg unless the target is on fire) It would also be balanced by only firing once per reload, renders the shotgun useless in general (removes medium range ability from the already limited pyro) and having to change weapons to do it, you cant just fly into a group flame and start shooting them without a lot of delays. It also adds a unique gameplay element, kind of a combo attack - which is kind of like the synergy between the ubersaw and kritz.
last edited by qmass at 19:36:42 03/Jun/08
Posted 07:37pm 03/6/08
Posted 08:59pm 03/6/08
Posted 09:12pm 03/6/08
Pyro is s***, I've never seen a good pyro EVER! I'm looking foward to Valve upping the class so it's even in the slighest playable.
Posted 09:44pm 03/6/08
Posted 09:55pm 03/6/08
Meaning no offense, but that's the worst idea i've heard all year. :p
last edited by Phooks at 21:55:55 03/Jun/08
Posted 10:06pm 03/6/08
Feign death was in TFC
I think pyros are great when trying to halt a group of enemies. Pyro goes in flames up which distracts them enough for the rest of the team to take 'em down.
last edited by ctd at 22:06:36 03/Jun/08
Posted 10:21pm 03/6/08
Posted 10:22pm 03/6/08
What can you do against someone constantly spychecking you? Nothing.
What can you do against someone constantly feignchecking you? Nothing. Who would NOT shoot at the body of a dead spy? A five year old could counter feign death
Perhaps if you were able to be shot by someone on your team and feign death as the enemy character, enemies might walk over you and then you could get up, but IMO there are more worthwhile unlocks to get.
Like longer invis... and GIANT LASER BEAM EYES.
Posted 10:30pm 03/6/08
guess you are too young to have played tfc
also bring back concussion grenades!!!
last edited by ravn0s at 22:30:30 03/Jun/08
Posted 07:36am 04/6/08
And
Pyros are played wrong by alot of people, they're more a disruptive class than a Kill Count class. Your job is to go in, scare off the medics, and cause general confusion, making everyone run to a med pack, or away from a choke point they're guarding, which makes it easy for your teams soldiers/demo men to run in and target everyone.
I mean, sure, you should also be able to a fair few other classes, and you should get quite a few points, no reason demos with a good team can't rack up heaps of kills. But your main job is to keep your teams offense moving forward. And that usually means you're going to die a bunch of times, i die more as pyro than any other class, but thats just the way it is. Alot of people on pub servers playing pyro suck the wang at it.
Posted 07:58am 04/6/08
Posted 08:08am 04/6/08
Posted 08:47am 04/6/08
Firstly, the medic is a little harder to kill with flames due to the health regen. Plus due to their extra speed they can keep running around you. Secondly, they can prevent a pyro disruption by extinguishing the teammates pretty quickly. I've found a single medic can usually prevent 5 other teammates from dying, and they're on full health and continue their assault before I've even respawned!
So yeah, I generally use the pyro as an anti-spy tool or if the other team has a crap or no medic. Oh and also in very tight maps where you can actually use the point blank flame damage (not very often though).
Posted 09:11am 04/6/08
6v6 games they fare a little better, though there isn't really all that much that a pyro can do that other classes can't do at least as well or better.
they're good fun in pub though and the game wouldn't be as good without them.
Posted 09:21am 04/6/08
Many-a-rush has be stopped or slowed down by the sudden onslaught of a pyro or two.
2-3 pyros are excellent for defending a cap point.
Pyro's are made for hit and runs or kamikaze missions.
Posted 10:48am 04/6/08
Pyros do burn through health fairly quickly making the minor health regen counts for s*** 99% of the time, so most medics (not having alot of health to begin with) scatter when a pyro starts flaming them, especially if the person they're healing doesn't react imediately. In team games with a team mate you trust, yeah, then pyros are in the s***.
They're not useless in clan matches, just, situational. Have to be able to switch to them, and then back out, when needed. I would never recomend playing one for an entire clan game. But thats mainly because in clan games, from what i've played, most "action" takes place when you manage to kill a majority of the other team. And pyros aren't built for longevity.
But on the whole, i agree that the pyro class could actually use a really good review, not just new achievements. Oh and for the love of god, on pub servers, if there are already 2 pyros, don't be the third.
Posted 11:03am 04/6/08
personally, i've never seen any decent team put them to good use. there isn't really anything they can do that other classes can't do at least as well as, or usually better than a pyro.
Posted 11:16am 04/6/08
I've gone looking before but found none.
Posted 11:42am 04/6/08
Basically my comments are from my own experience. Set a whole lot of people on fire and you'll notice the heavy and medic often have the highest survival rate. The medic has the health regen to offset much of the residual flame damage, the heavy has a s***load of HP to begin with.
But of course if you're flaming at point blank, the medic will certainly die before you do - if he's not paying attention, no question about that.
(Edit: reworded for clarity)
last edited by parabol at 11:42:09 04/Jun/08
Posted 12:06pm 04/6/08
Posted 12:22pm 04/6/08
Posted 01:01pm 04/6/08
The shotgun does 2 things, medium range defense and a finisher.
You take away one, to get..... the same?
Which requires more accuracy (lololol skillz yeah yeah). And takes it to a 1v1 class entirely. Which has a delay on it due to weapon switching, and is proposed to only contain one round so long reload delay on the next shot instead of 6 quick to hand shots?
Thats why it sounds like a bad idea, 1v1 the pyro already has a finisher, if you get someone to around half health and you're still close, a full blast from the shotty and they're down. It's not going to help the class any in the situations that make it a very limited clan class either.
The flame rocket, liquid on ground, or molotov all sound superior.
Posted 01:12pm 04/6/08
GotFrag is usually the place for competitive demo's. Not sure about TF2.
edit: http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/demos/ there you go. May have to set an account up.
Make sure you get the POV:HLTV demos or else you'll be stuck watching one person.
last edited by ctd at 13:12:35 04/Jun/08
Posted 01:20pm 04/6/08
If the enemy dies while on fire (Charcoal ala Flamethrower), then they explode causing splash damage to friendlies nearby....
BOOM BABY!!
Posted 01:24pm 04/6/08
Posted 01:38pm 04/6/08
Posted 02:49pm 04/6/08
I get the sentiment of the idea, i just don't think gimping the second gun is the solution.
Posted 03:51pm 04/6/08
I agree about TK-ing though... :P
Posted 05:04pm 04/6/08
edit: ah must only be on inclines then, my mistake.
last edited by taggs at 17:04:28 04/Jun/08
Posted 04:11pm 04/6/08
Posted 04:13pm 04/6/08
Posted 04:17pm 04/6/08
The best thing about this is how it gives spies another way to dismantle some engee bases and adding a tiny bit of humiliation on top.
Posted 04:22pm 04/6/08
Buildings on inclines (ie: stairs, as I mentioned) can partially block teammates. Join 2fort servers where the engi has teleporters on the stairs .. you have to jump to get over them. People whinge about it all the time, despite the fact that it's easy to get over if you're in no rush, but actually helps slow down the average spy enough for their cloak to wear off. Even for the experienced spy, it still slows them down having to jump like that.
As far as I know all enemies are blocked by structures .. not just the enemy spies.
I've only seen it happen once, others straight away said the same thing "wow, never seen that before". Must be a pretty rare occurrence I guess, since you usually have teammates all over the place during a sentry + ubered attacker situation .. and it doesn't always happen. Maybe it's just rocket wall-splash damage that does it?
last edited by parabol at 16:22:26 04/Jun/08
Posted 04:43pm 04/6/08
Posted 05:00pm 04/6/08
you |dispenser| (engee) [sentry]
So when you uncloak, the dispenser blocks the sentry from killing you once the engee dies. Then you can re-disguise and take out the sentry etc
Posted 05:13pm 04/6/08
Bit more challenging but worth the response you get when the engi respawns :)
Someone has already made a good vid:
last edited by parabol at 17:13:01 04/Jun/08
Posted 06:05pm 04/6/08
Posted 06:17pm 04/6/08
Posted 11:38am 07/6/08
Pyro is the least objective-effective class in the game. All he can do is light enemies on fire (rarely killing them), and take down badly placed lvl 1 or 2 sentries. Seems like valve finally picked up on it.
Posted 11:48am 07/6/08
sounds lame imo. changes to the pyro is really good news.
last edited by ravn0s at 11:48:57 07/Jun/08
Posted 11:49am 07/6/08
actually, depending on the placement, pyros also take down a lvl 3 sentry... and roast the engi trying to repair it.
last edited by Fish at 11:49:54 07/Jun/08
Posted 11:54am 07/6/08
yep ive done that a few times. pyro's can be really good on goldrush. lasnight i killed 5 enemies that were encircled around the cart.
also we need female classes :P
last edited by ravn0s at 11:54:24 07/Jun/08
Posted 11:52am 07/6/08
I'd prefer it if the amount of flame damage you do per person increases the more people you simultaneously set on fire. That was you would get immediately rewarded for causing massive disruption (since you're often dead before your regular crit probability gets a boost from all the hp damage you've dealt).
Posted 12:10pm 07/6/08
Posted 01:18pm 07/6/08
sounds pretty f***** gay if spies get ammo counts. will make it so much harder
Posted 01:35pm 07/6/08
Posted 01:42pm 07/6/08
Sweet if that's true.
I always feel sorry for the engineers when I'm running along a line of buildings, continuously insta-sapping faster than they can repair.
Posted 01:46pm 07/6/08
Posted 01:58pm 07/6/08
hi guys im noob
Posted 03:24pm 07/6/08
Posted 04:18am 10/6/08
Posted 10:41am 10/6/08
Duh?
So that means you need more spies, not a more powerful spy.
How often do you have 3 sentries right next to each other? Sometimes, but not that often. No point keeping the spy overpowered for the other 95% of the time when there's only a sentry or two around.
The idea is that if there are too many engies/sentries around, the lone spy should give up trying to destroy the whole base himself. Get a couple of spies to do some sapping at the exact moment your teammates attack the base, so that THEY can can get close and destroy the sentries for you with rockets/grenades.
I play the spy heaps and I fully support degrading their sap abilities.
Posted 11:42am 10/6/08
all the time on dustbowl.
isntead of using a spy to try and take out 3 sentries, just change to demo and sticky them.
Posted 11:42am 10/6/08
Posted 11:59am 10/6/08
Yep so on one or two stages of dustbowl, you see it often. Not to much on the other 90-95% of stages/maps in TF2 .. which is my point. Hence for these situations you change strategies: more spies or better timed sappings.
Posted 12:04pm 10/6/08
it depends on what server type you play on :P
Posted 07:42pm 10/6/08
Posted 10:55pm 10/6/08
Posted 11:54am 15/6/08
Na, they wouldn't do that, f*** that would be REALLY cool.
$100 hitting teammates with new wrench will give them ammo.
Me? I can't wait for demo, it's just absolute rape atm... either demo is overpowered or really good players are naturally drawn to it.
Posted 01:58pm 15/6/08
but yeah as much as I doubt they'd have new buildings, I'd love to see little deployable shields or barriers, ramps\ladders that give access to areas otherwise only accessible via rocket/gren jumps. S*** even a deployable item much like the dispenser, only when you stand next to it you get 100% crits (like the kritskrieg).
But I doubt any of that would happen, besides I think they're doing the upgrades for the least played classes, so I reckon sniper or spy might be next?
Posted 03:47pm 15/6/08
maybe being able to drop ammo?
as for sniper, i'd like to see some camouflage ability. if they stay in the same spot for an amount of time
Posted 03:54pm 15/6/08
After watching the Drunken Flying Demoman video, I've had a new-found appreciation for that class. Takes a bit of practice to jump well, but the snipers never see it coming when I gren-jump across 2fort :)
I recorded this a couple days ago:
Posted 03:50pm 17/6/08
Posted 05:23pm 17/6/08
It's all about the angle and jump + crouching, plus of course timing.
You should be able to sticky jump ANYWHERE on any map an still have ~150hp.
Posted 05:52pm 17/6/08
Posted 06:14pm 17/6/08
Useless comment. Only true if you're specifically looking out for me or unzoomed.
Except .. 95% of snipers are zoomed most of the time, charging up their shot. So most don't see it coming.
The key point is that it's not easy to do every time without fail unless you've had heaps of practice.
I haven't, so 2 stickies do the job.
Plus, the two sticky method allows me to jump and curve around my battlement's wall without showing myself (ie, can't get sniped while attempting to jump). The extra damage also gives s***loads of air and I usually land on the sniper's head and I rarely get seen :)
last edited by parabol at 18:14:43 17/Jun/08
Posted 11:10pm 17/6/08
Posted 11:39pm 17/6/08
You mean they have to learn to snipe?
Personally I don't bother to charge shots unless I'm trying to take out a heavy or a sentry. Just not worth being unaware of the surroundings for so long (nearby spies, another sniper out of scope's FOV, flying demoman :P)
Anyway my sniping skills are doing just well thank you :)
last edited by parabol at 23:39:21 17/Jun/08