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Post by trog @ 03:32pm 05/03/03 | 54 Comments
Doing the media rounds at the moment is this story which is basically saying the laws put in a few years ago to try and cut back on Internet pornography falling into the hands of under-age people have failed. This story on AustralianIT has some more information about what we might be seeing in the near future:
THE federal Government will move to tighten control over the internet to reduce the accessibility of hardcore pornography from personal computers.

One of the options being considered by Communications Minister Richard Alston is a central system to filter all local and overseas internet traffic through a proxy server. But Senator Alston fears that could slow down overall internet speeds. He favours an approach that would toughen regulations on internet service providers, which are already prohibited from hosting X-rated material.
Further blame is being lumped on the ISPs, stating that they are loathe to implement such filtering systems as they "earn substantial money from bandwidth charges for the pornographic images downloaded". Apparently parents no longer exist to monitor the activity of their children - when did this happen?



filtering





Latest Comments
Erik-the-Red
Posted 03:38pm 05/3/03
i don't think that it would be viable to route the ENTIRE of australia's data through a routing system. really, c'mon.

if they're worried about kids accessing pr0n, then perhaps a public awareness program should be put in place to alert clueless parents to 'the dangers' of the intarweb
dais
Posted 03:38pm 05/3/03
Once again our Government attempts to control something it doesn't understand.
Erik-the-Red
Posted 03:38pm 05/3/03
^^

well said dais
Reverend Evil
Posted 03:47pm 05/3/03
If they ban porn I'm gonna have to go out and find a girlfriend.
Boxhead
Posted 03:50pm 05/3/03
Prime Minister John Howard was today politicking about internet porn, in response to a report that revealed that 84% of boys aged 16 and 17 looked at online porn.
Is something that was said yesterday? Not too sure... So out of 500 Qgl goers 420 are looking at porn, kiddy porn aswell (maybe you should think about filtering data aswell :p)

But anyway haven't you seen the fridge magnets? Thats the Fed. Govts scheme for everything.. Terrorists attacking the nation? Give the people fridge magnets.. Son/daughters morals being corrupted by porn, Give the people fridge magnets!!!
Strik3r
Posted 04:07pm 05/3/03
rofl boxhead :P
Angelus
Posted 04:11pm 05/3/03
I think that if anyone is doing something seriously illegal then it should be stopped but is censoring what we see the option. If we did somehow go down that path there are some crutial problems which would govern it.
i) General Population unhappy with censorship, now porn tomorrow outside media.
ii) People are smart and they will have a hack to prevent this system from working.
iii) Its like a deus ex style conspiracy
iv) Telstra shares would crash further until the government will never be able to sell its portion.
GumbyNoTalent
Posted 04:14pm 05/3/03
http://whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/1088?show=replies

from OCAU, what I want to know is whats the phone number to complain so I too can get a fridge magnet.
LD99
Posted 04:14pm 05/3/03
Interesting thought, reverend evil.

If it is illegal for those under 18's to view p0rns, why shouldn't sex be illegal for those under 18's as well.

So should we start arresting high school kids now?

Just a thought. :/
GumbyNoTalent
Posted 04:28pm 05/3/03
i) General Population unhappy with censorship, now porn tomorrow outside media.
No not all people are unhappy with censorship, I for 1 am not. I'm glad that we have censorship and restrictions, especially on TV and other media. Just because the nature of the internet prevents any real form of censorship bar self censorship doesn't mean that censorship is obsolete.
ii) People are smart and they will have a hack to prevent this system from working.
How would you by-pass a system which restricted and filtered content that came through the 4 major land line connecting us to the internet? Unlike China we are on an Island and have to lay cables for our access points or use satellites of which there are 2 or 3. I'm sure there would be someway of controlling them from their access point.
iv) Telstra shares would crash further until the government will never be able to sell its portion.
Telstra share would crash because of the impact of what on internet traffic? People will still use the internet, besides internet usage is only a very small proportion of Telstra profit, public opinion is what will stop the sell off. If you ask me the government did well to sell telstra at $8.00 when it really is valued at $5.50ish, so at $4.20 its a bargin, when you consider that the divideends are usually above 5%, better than a bank if you buy low.
skythra
Posted 04:33pm 05/3/03
just my general thought:

I really hate the internet for porn, and the government doesnt know crap. they did a servey that said over 50% of young kids over 15 had seen porn. thats sooo wrong. at school when i was 15 ALL my friends had seen porn. 80% were fairly addicted.

Thats the problem. Im not saying that it is something we need to fix, cause thats obvious, however i personally know no idea on how to TRUELY stop porn from poping up etc. As said before the government see to try to controll something they dont understand. I just think they should employ a division that would try to controll it. oopss im late for meeting bai bai
GumbyNoTalent
Posted 04:36pm 05/3/03
I really hate the internet for porn, and the government doesnt know crap. they did a servey that said over 50% of young kids over 15 had seen porn. thats sooo wrong. at school when i was 15 ALL my friends had seen porn. 80% were fairly addicted.
I'm 36 and at my school %100 of the 15 year old boys had seen porn or owned it, and there was no internet. How many of your friends had seen a R rated movie? Probably same figure, same problem different medium.
Hemerage
Posted 04:40pm 05/3/03
its only porn =)
Angelus
Posted 04:43pm 05/3/03
Less influence by governments over technology, if we were to give the government the right to block sites for Australians how long would it be until you loose important alternative news services? How will we react when all of our information is controlled by governments.

On the other hand most if not all governments are such beurocracys that any attempt to regulate somehting as large as the internet would probably be a futile misallocation of taxpayers money and would reduce the speed of my internet connection to the point where BF1942 cant run. Arghh!!!
HardKor
Posted 04:55pm 05/3/03
in my case, i first saw porn when i was 14 and then by the time i was 15 i'd grown tired of it
i mean, they are all the same
now i have more important things to do, like increasing my quake skillz =P lol
Angelus
Posted 05:00pm 05/3/03
Ive got a sollution that will please everybody.
Send Copys of Counter-Strike to ever home with an internet connection and a kid under 18. Then we can turn all of the pr0n addicted kiddies into semi-addicted CS Kiddies who can win money for their parents at lan events. This money would then be spent buying australian made soft drinks injecting money into the economy. It could work?
wormaneed
Posted 05:40pm 05/3/03
I just don't understand societies problem with pornography, it is just sex, we all (well, most) of us partcipate in sexual intercourse at some point in our life. I am more concerned at the availability of extremely violent acts that young children can easily obtain and be influenced by, not just from the internet but from all sourecs of media, how can two consenting adults having sex be more detrimntal to a childs' psyche than watching people kill and maim each other. When will society start to realise that sex is ok, violence is not. I am not suggesting censoring violence either, i am just saying that if censorship has to be put into place to placate lobby groups and the such, then surely violence should supersede sex when it comes to censorship.
dranged
Posted 06:04pm 05/3/03
its only porn =)

hahah

Alston and johnny are just dancing for the public. Definitely falls into the domain of parental control. What they should be looking at is an education strategy to inform parents on how to reduce the occurance of nasties getting through (SPAM lists, hosts file additions, netnanny and the like)

*edit* although i am pretty sure they know filtration/proxying wouldnt work, you never know with this government ;)
Hemerage
Posted 06:00pm 05/3/03
agree 100% with wormaneed, but i summed it up in 3words :D

/me thinks of bloodhoud gang song with animals goin at it

:)
lu-lu
Posted 06:04pm 05/3/03
Okay, I have a few views on this:

First, I agree with whoever said (sorry, can't be bothered to check for ur handle) - aren't the parents around to actually supervise kids on the net anymore? It shouldn't be society's problem that kids aren't being supervised on the net. BUT - how many of you actually tell ur parents what you do on the net? And - there's pop-ups (I'm gonna decapitate the person who invented those!!!)

i don't think that they're actually talking about like, normal porn. I think they're talking more about the ileagle stuff that's readily avaliable on the net - under 18's, rapes, serously hardcore stuff that wouldn't ever make it to the shelves because it's just not right.

Oh yeah, reverend, you shouldn't be admittin stuff like that ;)

Nuff said
lu-lu
Posted 06:06pm 05/3/03
ohyeah, OT question:
is my signature showing up because on my piece-of-crap computer, heaps of signatures aren't showing.
Hemerage
Posted 06:14pm 05/3/03
not working...

re-upload ur sig to ausgamners sig hosting

they changes servers, and broke stuff
trog
Posted 06:26pm 05/3/03
Once again our Government attempts to control something it doesn't understand.
I dunno, I think they understand it, I think they're just approaching it from totally the wrong angle. I spose I think that more though because I believe it is the parents responsibility to stop their kids from looking at stuff they shouldn't be looking at on the net.
Nidz
Posted 06:42pm 05/3/03
God knows nobody uses the net to look up porn... Surely.
teen
Posted 06:45pm 05/3/03
as if they'll be able to stop porn, kids will just send it to each other as "homework.zip".
typo
Posted 07:06pm 05/3/03
Where are the parents?
mooby
Posted 07:48pm 05/3/03
hehe.. id like to see what server they'd run. be going down like...
snuff3r
Posted 08:21pm 05/3/03
How would you by-pass a system which restricted and filtered content that came through the 4 major land line connecting us to the internet? Unlike China we are on an Island and have to lay cables for our access points or use satellites of which there are 2 or 3. I'm sure there would be someway of controlling them from their access point.


There would be millions of ways around it.
Satellites are a thought.
What about the law? The government have put in some fairly tough (and painful) privacy laws. I would favour the odds that someone taking the government to court over data filtering, as a breach of privacy, would win. The data needs to be scanned to pass filters, and this would be infringing on breaking peoples basic rights to privacy.
etc, etc...

The fact is, the internet will never be censorable. And if anyone truly wanted porn, they could get it. even if it means getting it physically (DVD's/Video's) from overseas, copying it, and handing it out. And if they plan on filtering all incoming lines into the country, it would be blown away, when we start seeing the use of wireless more commonly.
snuff3r
Posted 08:23pm 05/3/03
mooby the golden calf:

hehe.. id like to see what server they'd run. be going down like...


..telstra's mailservers?
HERMITech
Posted 09:06pm 05/3/03
One of the options being considered by Communications Minister Richard Alston is a central system to filter all local and overseas internet traffic through a proxy server.




They only want to filter it through a proxy so that they can then sift through all the choice bits an call it "for the good of the people, I must watch this filth"

I mean, c'mon, how many of you can guess which is one (an only if remember correctly) areas that XXX is LEGALLY available over the counter?

- signing of..

Peter North reporting from Cumbra
Khnum
Posted 09:22pm 05/3/03
hmm?

one of u guys posted saying its illegal to have sex if u under 18? is this true?

man i broken some laws then :P:(
Sancho
Posted 09:28pm 05/3/03
i think that he meant to say that it is illegal to have pornographic images of anyone who is under the age of 18 because i'm pretty sure that the age for consent is 16
Parag0n
Posted 09:37pm 05/3/03
OMG its a fkn vagina *!! errr gg government,

I bet Poor little Johhny Howard aint getting enough at home so he will probably down this idea :P
Parag0n
Posted 09:42pm 05/3/03
yeh you have to be at least 16 to have sechs ":)
Horatio
Posted 10:46pm 05/3/03
If you are under 18, are you allowed to watch people have sex in real life?

*registers ABN*....
Slappercx
Posted 10:49pm 05/3/03
siff john howard is a newbie he can eat my ass
Draffa
Posted 03:38am 06/3/03
Canberra is the Capital of Australia. In Canberra you can buy X Rated videos over the counter. I wonder why...

It's the parents job, not the governments.
GumbyNoTalent
Posted 10:30am 06/3/03
There would be millions of ways around it.
Satellites are a thought.
What about the law? The government have put in some fairly tough (and painful) privacy laws. I would favour the odds that someone taking the government to court over data filtering, as a breach of privacy, would win. The data needs to be scanned to pass filters, and this would be infringing on breaking peoples basic rights to privacy.
etc, etc...


Lets see, having had to do this in the work place lets start with the obvious, this domain has porn, well no more resolution of that address or ip. Opps dynamic dns, oops we don't talk to that whole range. No how do you circumvent those draconian rules?

All satellites don't magically grab the information out of thin space, their has to be a uplink to provide the content, so you impose similar rules on the uplink. See above for details.
Nakey
Posted 10:45am 06/3/03
You can buy pr0n in the ACT? why was i not told about this before?!
Tollaz0r!
Posted 10:46am 06/3/03
Making ISP's filter out porn is like making Australia Post open all its mail finding any illigle porn.. stupid.
Nakey
Posted 10:56am 06/3/03
/me gropes his piles and piles of X rated dvds

Uh, its just pr0n anyway, it would only freak out young kids, kids under like urh.. 12 or so
Mantra
Posted 06:00pm 06/3/03
I'm 33 years old. I'd buy Penthouse after school, in my school uniform when I was 13.

They couldn't completely filter anything on the internet. Filter the content, or even policing the content of millions of computers all over the world is a pointless excercise.

Does my 11yo son watch porn on the PC? Hell no! I don't let him. I keep an eye on what he does on a computer. Does he buy Penthouse from a sleazy newsagent? I have no idea, I can't keep an eye on him 24/7, particularly now that he's getting older. How about the government slaps sleazy newsagents around for selling porn to kids instead of trying to police a medium that can't be policed.
lu-lu
Posted 08:19pm 06/3/03
I don't think that they (the gov) could even stop it if they wanted to, not without invading MAJOr privacy and freedom of speech laws.

Second thought, there is a law that says porn can't be sent through the mail. Now, they may be able to apply that to like e-'mail', but in a way that'd be okay, because if i get one more email with the subject '9 inch horse c*** in virgin', 'NAKED!!!!', I'm gonna shoot someone!!!
koopz
Posted 08:38pm 06/3/03
Alston and johnny are just dancing for the public. Definitely falls into the domain of parental control



hehe... agreed.
HERMITech
Posted 08:50pm 06/3/03
Alston and johnny are just dancing for the public. Definitely falls into the domain of parental control


Definately...

Alston and johnnis parents should have drowned the f*****s at birth
typo
Posted 03:55am 07/3/03
The logic that ISPs don't want to stop people leeching porn, because they make phat lewt out of it, is flawed.

If they made so much money out of leeching anything like a pig they would all sneak heaps more porn, juarez, movies, music and stuff onto there local network (. Then they could charge for megs downloaded, and never have to pay for that bandwidth (win win).

They also wouldn't be b****ing about spam, juarez, and p2p networks nearly as much as they do now, because hey those costs are transfered across to the user anyway!. Yet most ISPs are trying to stop those forms of bandwidth loss.

At the end of the day ISPs and IAPs make much more money having a idle account than a leeching account. If 7/10 accounts are doing nothing at any one time then that means you can put on a lot more accounts :D.

exo
Posted 10:23am 07/3/03
I don't understand how kids can have sex at 16, but can't watch sex untill 18...
ZasZ
Posted 11:47am 07/3/03
I dont think the governments realise that its almost too late to stop software and media piracy. There is thousands of p2p applications, thousands of FTP's, thousands of LANs. I believe roughly 80% of people on the internet have pirated software movies games or whatever. ISP's are the only ones that can stop the internet side of it, but once that happens you'll get people trading over the hand cd's full of mp3's, people hiring out games from video stores, burning then returning. No one realises just how out of hand this is becoming. For example, mp3's are the new standard of getting music, of course people still buy cd's, but the large majority just double click that kazaa icon and type a few words, X minutes later they have that entire cd for free.

Im interested to see how the goverments are going to take on the majority of the population :).
ZasZ
Posted 11:49am 07/3/03
p.s. I love p2p :D
snuff3r
Posted 11:08pm 07/3/03
Nakey: Canberra = land of legal porn, marijuana, and fireworks.

Just pop down to the local red-light district, you can pick all of these up ;D
typo
Posted 01:55am 09/3/03
red light districts? F*** you can pick up hardcore porn at the petrol station.
snuff3r
Posted 01:54am 10/3/03
well. i usually do my porn and fireworks in the same trip. :)
harl
Posted 09:39am 10/3/03
i work as a pre-sales engineer for one of the companies that is behind the push to have this software installed at an ISP level. The software we have written is specifically for ISP's - and trust me, all the data could be readily piped through this service, to block sites. And it does work.

Im appalled, and embarrassed to be working for this company, and am considering resigning because of the meetings i have to go to, to push members of parliament to go ahead with this deal.

Its disgusting that the government should control our internet, and i strongly advise everyone to be vehemently against it.

Im all for people 'opting in' for the service to have their children's browsing filtered, but i dont believe some politician should be making decisions about what is acceptable, and what is not.

The internet is the last remaining platform for everyone to have a voice, to publish or not. Anyone can be a part of it, and now, no longer will individuals be able to express themselves. Im no advocate of kiddie porn (despise it) but the whole persona of the internet is an uncontrollable network, of people doing and saying whatever they want. Its a beautiful thing in the days of corporate sponsorship, commercial viability, and taxation.

No filtering for me.
fpot
Posted 11:02am 10/3/03
Censorship sucks.
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