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Career Query
Vinny
Adelaide, South Australia
4 posts
Hello,

The reason of this forum post is just a question

I am currently 17 and in my final year of secondary school, I live in Adelaide, SA

After school I want to go to University and do a course in Software Engineering, I just want to know if there is any need for Software Engineers in adelaide, as in is it worth it as there is no need for software engineers and should I pursue something else in the field of Information Technology like Computer Science or Web Design? My plans for my future really is just to do Software Engineering course, at the same time learn all types of programming languages and from there try to land a job in a software development company. From there I can learn web design or even go into game programming (a goal of mine)

So, basically the question is, is it worth it to learn Software Development or are there more demand for other parts of IT work like Computer systems etc?

Thanks :)
05:01pm 07/06/14 Permalink
system
Internet
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05:01pm 07/06/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
21571 posts
good luck getting an honest answer on here Vinny. My advice to you would be to study what you are passionate about. If you really want to pursue Software Engineering and are good at it, you may have to keep your mind open to relocation opportunities.
05:05pm 07/06/14 Permalink
Vinny
Adelaide, South Australia
5 posts
good luck getting an honest answer on here Vinny. My advice to you would be to study what you are passionate about. If you really want to pursue Software Engineering and are good at it, you may have to keep your mind open to relocation opportunities.


Yeah i've been told about people relocating for their careers in IT, and thanks for that piece of advice! :)
05:10pm 07/06/14 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
5046 posts
do a local search on Seek using Software Engineer as key words to get an idea on the number of jobs in your area.

www.seek.com.au
05:13pm 07/06/14 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2420 posts
In general, software development is a high growth industry, and it'll continue to grow as infrastructure continues on it's abstraction and service commoditisation trend. So I think getting into software development is a great choice, much more so then computer systems/IT engineering, there are abundant jobs now and there will be in the future. I'm excluding game development from that as it's different. Australia is a much smaller market too, even more so in the smaller cities like Adelaide, so relocation is a factor.

Like crazymorton said, check out all the job portal/search websites for jobs available and other job data/trends - you should be able to get a nice statistical view on it including salary, demand and growth trends by region/city/country.

The kind of career switches you mention don't seem that simple to me, computer systems engineering or IT networking is inexplicably different to programming. You're talking min 2-3 years solid work exp and education/qualifications to know what you're doing or be remotely employable in each. I don't think that's a good strategy. I would pick a discipline and stick to it, jacks of all trades do okay but cap out early, specialists are much better and go much further. I would advise doing as much real world work exp as you can while studying at uni, it'll be hard work and a mission, but you'll reap the rewards once you hit the job market. Uni grads with no work exp are a dime a dozen.

This is my go to video for career advice, so if software dev is what you love, just do that.

08:03pm 07/06/14 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
37774 posts
06:51am 08/06/14 Permalink
BOOST
Brisbane, Queensland
670 posts
Do you currently take an interest in programming? Have you built any websites or developed any apps for your phone in your spare time?
08:25am 08/06/14 Permalink
Vinny
Adelaide, South Australia
6 posts
Do you currently take an interest in programming? Have you built any websites or developed any apps for your phone in your spare time?


Yeah I do have an interest in programming, currently I am doing my Year 12 IT course doing a range of different aspects of IT

I haven't developed any applications but I have helped build a website using Javascript and HTML

Coding languages I know thourougly: Javascript, Visual Basic, HTML/CSS (even though they are not official coding languages) Flash, jQuery and SQL.

Coding languages I have a brief knowledge of: C++ and Python
10:08pm 08/06/14 Permalink
Vinny
Adelaide, South Australia
7 posts

Vinny, http://acsfoundation.com.au/bdi/index.cfm?page=Adelaide might be of interest as well




Thanks for that website, it looks very good and i'm hoping I can go to it, i'm not sure if my school are going to it but I just sent an email to the head IT Teacher at my school asking if we can go. Thanks again! :)
10:09pm 08/06/14 Permalink
BOOST
Brisbane, Queensland
671 posts
If you find its something you do for fun outside of school, say you'll spend a few hours coding on the weekend because you enjoy it... then that's a pretty good indicator. You might not even need to bother with uni...but some of the software developers in here might have some better advice there. Back in the early 2000's you didn't really need a degree but the industry is more structured now.
09:16am 09/06/14 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4753 posts
Hi Vinni,

Learn C#.

it covers you for web dev, and application development, java is very similar syntax so android apps are an easier follow on. Get a job at a help desk and program at any and all opportunities, jump into a programming gig as a junior after that and you're off. also the helpdesk experience keeps your options open for systems admin etc.

UNI is good, but experience is worth more. you'd get further and learn quite a bit spending 2 years building a kick ass application on your own, then studying programming for 2 years.
08:16pm 09/06/14 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6477 posts
You might not even need to bother with uni...but some of the software developers in here might have some better advice there.
UNI is good, but experience is worth more.


Both of the statements I agree with, you don't need a uni degree to write software and experience is worth more. The theoretical foundation sure is frequently useful though.
Biggest problem you'll find if you don't get one though is that almost any position worth applying for will ask for a bachelor degree so you could be shut out.

You'll definitely need to be open to moving to Melbourne or even Sydney, the IT job market in Adelaide is worse than Brisbane.
One last thing - the game development industry in Australia has imploded over the last decade, unfortunately.
If you're absolutely determined then you'll probably need to showcase an exceptional portfolio of work done after hours and then look overseas.
08:34pm 09/06/14 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7919 posts
in this day and age why do people still need to rely on a job? If your young and motivated do what you are passionate about and create a startup around it

startupweekend.org
10:23pm 09/06/14 Permalink
Persay
Brisbane, Queensland
7733 posts
go to uni and study software eng + something else at the same time, then even if your'e a complete failure at programming you can work something else during the day and still be a nerd

done
11:03pm 09/06/14 Permalink
Babak
Gold Coast, Queensland
6 posts
It's very hard question as you may change your mind later and become interested in something totally different. Also, the job demand is changing all the time so I wouldn't recommend you to choose your career based on the job demand in the market.

what will help you get a job in the future are skills and attributes such as communication skills, ability to deal with different people, organization and time management skills blah blah. I believe you can learn any programming language in a few weeks/months but learning those skills or improving them takes years.
03:29pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Clubby
Brisbane, Queensland
950 posts
Get a job as a sharepoint coder on 120k+, enjoy life. :P
04:16pm 29/09/14 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
6024 posts
If it was me I say Computer Science & bioinformatics + a side of electrical engineering and learn python / pearl / C variants (but not #) / FORTRAN and some cobol and a whole bunch of nix.

Learn how to build and admin a cluster and HA
Learn about file systems / parallel and clustered
Learn how to make readable, reliable logical code
Learn how to solder and do board level repair
Learn to document
Learn about storage, and sans
Learn about networks, wans, vpn's
Learn about security
Learn how to be an administrator not of just computers, but dealing with people and be good at it.
Learn about virtualisation
Learn conflict resolution
Learn public speaking
Learn to talk to people and explain things in a logic concise manner
Learn how a computer actually works and how the software you write is effected by it. You will be surprised how much you forget over the years even the basics
Learn that you can't start at the top. Be prepared to get stuck in help-desk support regardless of what you know.Understand that you need to do the hard yards

Be passionate, and remain passionate about it



last edited by HerbalLizard at 16:32:38 29/Sep/14
04:31pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8777 posts
Tertiary Computer Science, Software Engineering, and IT degrees in general are struggling with record low numbers at the moment. YOu need to look three to five years out and realize that when you graduate, there's not going to be a surplus of graduate Software Engineers - which for yourself would be a good thing.

The one thing I strongly recommend is to make sure you don't end up being a "[insert language here] developer". A good developer will pretty much pick up any language you throw at them - there'll be a short learning curve but ultimately it's just syntax. If you can switch between Java, C#, C++, Perl, PHP, Ruby etc without any hassles, you're half way there.

Similarly, don't fall in to the trap that the old time C++/GNU purists do that .NET is some force for evil and if it's not STL, GTFO. Understand that it's just a framework - whether it's the .NET framework, J2EE/SE/ME JDK, STL - whatever. Have your brain decouple frameworks from languages. Purists will f*****g hate this, and that's why ten years down the track you'll have career options and they'll still be stuck throwing stones and stuck in a niche area.

it covers you for web dev, and application development, java is very similar syntax so android apps are an easier follow on.

Here's my summary of "the differences between C# and Java in 30 seconds" as someone who's primarily been Java for the last 10 years:

  1. The C# thread model doesn't suck and isn't missing some seriously important but subtle features.
  2. C# delegates.
  3. C# properties


Last thing: Don't skip out on lectures and neglect final year. First year is a piece of cake. If you struggle at first year, you're in for a rude shock when you get to second and third year. Make sure you have your head thoroughly around those fundamentals or you'll find yourself transferring to Bachelor of Information Systems :P
06:51pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38430 posts
forget everything you've learned and redeploy as a perl programmer, ITS THE FUTURE!
07:12pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6590 posts
  1. The C# thread model doesn't suck and isn't missing some seriously important but subtle features.
  2. C# delegates.
  3. C# properties

4. C# lambda functions aren't gimped because of type erasure and checked exceptions

The lack of generic types in v1.0 implementations of both the CLR and JVM is just unfortunate in general. Non generic classes and interfaces still pervade the BCLs of both platforms. I look forward to the mainstream language successor that incorporates all the lessons of C# and Java, we should be about due for it in a decade or so. :)
07:24pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8778 posts
I look forward to the mainstream language successor that incorporates all the lessons of C# and Java, we should be about due for it in a decade or so. :)

I must admit I'm amazed at the ability for Java to stay fundamental for so long. Despite all the hate for Oracle and Java's critics, it's not looking like it's going anywhere any time soon.
07:39pm 29/09/14 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
6027 posts
Yeah but the oracle and java is totally justified. I just don't get the ms stack guys some days, but still ravens comments still stand dispute my ms bigotry and utter hatred.
08:23pm 29/09/14 Permalink
nings
Gold Coast, Queensland
143 posts
Sorry to hear you live in Adelaide.
Luckily it shouldn't effect the study part of your career but the career part yeah good luck with that.
09:10pm 29/09/14 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7934 posts
dude.. software engineers are wanted globally and you can work from home

a mate of mine just got a 90k contract from his bedroom for a 3 month software stint - he works on an island in the Bahamas and the job was in South Africa

think big picture

also
https://angel.co/jobs#find/f!{%22roles%22%3A[%22Software%20Engineer%22]}

last edited by Superform at 21:25:25 29/Sep/14
09:24pm 29/09/14 Permalink
grazer
Brisbane, Queensland
92 posts
I can't speak for Adelaide but I advocated becoming a Software Engineer. Web Development pretty much requires you to be a software engineer and has for the last 5+ years imo. That's not people making web sites but people making "things" (usually Apps) that also include HTML/CSS/JS.

What people will say will likely be skewed toward their own career path... What to study depends on what field you want to work in. If you want to make s***, learn Software Engineering (or Web Dev), if you want think about making s***, learn CompSci. Personally I've always enjoyed providing business value to customers so I studied a BInfTech(SE)/BA double to get me started.

A career in development is a life on continual learning (professional development), of trying to keep up to date with the ever changing state of the art, especially if you're doing Web Dev. That changes so so very quickly. Development is also pretty decently paid, especially as you move up the ranks. $100+k salaries for senior devs are typical (at least in cities other than Adelaide) and the pay is even greater as you move into more senior roles like team leads, dev managers, architechts. If you want to contract you can make $100/hr and more, especially if you're prepared to work in an area that sucks... like Sharepoint. hehe

Also, graduates are near useless. seriously.
01:48pm 15/10/14 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6601 posts
A career in development is a life on continual learning (professional development), of trying to keep up to date with the ever changing state of the art, especially if you're doing Web Dev. That changes so so very quickly.


Very true. Though 90% of the s*** unleashed upon the world can typically be ignored because it comes and goes.
The trick is to figure out what that 10% is that's worth paying attention to. Sturgeon's Law of Software.

Also, graduates are near useless. seriously.


Only 'near' because somebody has to get up and head down to Zarraffa's, right? :)
02:06pm 15/10/14 Permalink
grazer
Brisbane, Queensland
93 posts
Only 'near' because somebody has to get up and head down to Zarraffa's, right? :)

hehe correct :)
02:16pm 15/10/14 Permalink
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Internet
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02:16pm 15/10/14 Permalink
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