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Russell Brand v Jeremy Paxman
Viper119
Other International
2224 posts
More great stuff from Russell Brand, he's becoming a bit of a modern day messiah of sorts.

Brand has found a more serious edge of late, interspersing tales of shagging and not taking drugs with pleas for a fairer world, a greener world and one in which Associated Newspapers is mashed to a pulp.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/23/russell-brand-v-jeremy-paxman_n_4151743.html


07:52pm 24/10/13 Permalink
system
Internet
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07:52pm 24/10/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36720 posts
yer, while i can dig that its pretty much useless voting, id be more impressed if he had some genuine ideas on how things can be fixed, rather than just telling us, s**** broken, which we all know already anyway.

he is certainly an eloquent man.
08:13pm 24/10/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2720 posts
I've always found Mr Brand to be quite well spoken when he's not doing he's comic routines.

I thought he handled that interview well given even if it was a tad preachy and idealistic at times.

I can't stand Russell Brand the comedia, He's comedy stylings are not my cup of tea.
08:16pm 24/10/13 Permalink
Alize`
Brisbane, Queensland
1778 posts
I think he justified himself well as to why he doesn't vote. Paxman trolls hard though.
09:57pm 24/10/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6539 posts
That scruffy c*** broke Katy's heart.
10:14pm 24/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
308 posts
wow. someone had a lot of drugs at one time and it seem they really agreed with him

he certainly has something like his heart is in the right place. lets hope he can refine it and find some good road that is more build "than" destroy,,, or should that be "then"?
10:40pm 24/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20691 posts
> advocates revolution
> offers no alternative for new social system

what a poor hard done by millionaire. first thing he can do is give away all of his money.
10:55pm 24/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
135 posts
I'm sure he would give away all his money if he thought that would fix anything.

Would you give away all your money if you knew it would fix anything?
11:40pm 24/10/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
424 posts
It would fix something.

You having too much f***en money.
11:41pm 24/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
136 posts
Russell brand thread yo.

god particle threads over there>
11:48pm 24/10/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10774 posts
Russel I refuse to participate too.
Its a pointless pantomime designed to make us think we are in control.

like Mr Jones' Cotton Plantation:



12:38am 25/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
139 posts
A lot of people would vote for Russell Brand over a stiff in a suit.

He's like Arnold Schwarzenegger on mental steroids.
01:51am 25/10/13 Permalink
Ha
273 posts
i don't vote. and i keep getting fines in the mail, so i consider paying them my 'civic duty'. as far as i'm concerned we don't need an alternative. just tear down the current system as a warning to those that come after: 'this will happen to you if you take the piss'. honestly though i'll just sit on my ass and watch game of thrones.
03:21am 25/10/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2225 posts
I think he explains why he's talking about the things he is, instead of defining an alternative solution, and he specifically says he's just trying to draw attention to the fact that there should be alternatives, and that he's no genius to create such a solution.

He wasn't always a millionaire, he's done the nothing to something job, and he does a great deal of charitable work in the UK.
07:38am 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20692 posts
We had an alternative. It was called the Bolshevik Revolution. It's a cool story.
09:51am 25/10/13 Permalink
typo
Other International
6553 posts
yer, while i can dig that its pretty much useless voting, id be more impressed if he had some genuine ideas on how things can be fixed, rather than just telling us, s**** broken, which we all know already anyway.


As he said, he's just a comedian who's spreading the word. That's a start.

We had an alternative. It was called the Bolshevik Revolution. It's a cool story.


Good work dips***.
02:40pm 25/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
311 posts
the Bolshevik Revolution took our jerbs!
02:46pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4533 posts
A grade human trash thats all he is and ever will be.
02:46pm 25/10/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8288 posts
rich liberal with nothing much to do spouts feel good stuff, news at eleven
03:10pm 25/10/13 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
919 posts
It's all well and good demanding a utopian world, but how about a solution on how we achieve it? Extreme taxing on corporations is the only way I can see it happening. But I guess without growth/profits companies are pointless. Unless we completely change the economic system.

I think we in aus we have it pretty good already. Work hard and you're almost guaranteed a roof over your head, food on the table and lots left over for what ever you like.
03:12pm 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20693 posts
Listening to hmi reminded me a lot of Clive Palmer. He's just another human headline.
03:13pm 25/10/13 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
759 posts
I don't know, I think he's right; the first step is making more people aware of the specifics of exactly what the current situation is. I think as a task it's a good one for him as he's in a good position to do that. I don't see why questioning the status quo should be contingent on having a solution. Good solutions often only come about through the collaboration of many parties, and increasing awareness is a great first step in motivating people who might have solutions to come forward and get involved.

I don't necessarily agree with his comments about boycotting the voting process, but I see that his stance only seems to improve the visibility of his message. I find it hard to argue against him on that point, as that's exactly what he's trying to achieve.
03:23pm 25/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
312 posts
But I guess without growth/profits companies are pointless. Unless we completely change the economic system.


I guess when you have corps making billions in profit but have millions of citizens in poverty, or on the poverty line, the whole idea of "how much profit is enough profit" might come into it.

I think we in aus we have it pretty good already. Work hard and you're almost guaranteed a roof over your head, food on the table and lots left over for what ever you like.


I think we have it really really good in Australia. Like one of the best countries in many ways in the entire world. But that doesnt mean we should be like "meh we are already good lets call it a day"

The "work hard geta roof over your head" sounds ok until you realise you will never own that home or roof over your head so long as you stay working for the man. But yes you will get just enough to pay the man the rent for the roof and just that little bit more like a pub night out a sports game on the Sunday and 3 meals a day.

Its not the 50's. Wage disparity is a real thing. If you think that in the 50's the boss of the business made on average 5 times the wage, every week, as the guy on the floor. These days its more like 5000 times, or more, especially if you look at corps paging a monthly wage of $36 to 3rd world folks to make whatever.

The divide between have and have not is widening. The guys up the top are buying up everything at the bottom.

Russell Brand said a lot of good stuff. Like i said his heart is in the right place. But yeah society is f***ed. It would take some major actions to put things back together again so that it wasn't broken and thats just for Australia. Everything from how we judge "success" what does it mean to be rich, who should get a say who deserves to be heard. Fair pay for fair work. What is enough profit. How much do we support the needy. How should we be governed. What should the ruling class look like.

There is like hundreds of things that need looking at and changing and what not.

I say we give plato's republic idea's a shot ie. the Hoi Phylakes guardians - if we start today we can have new better government in about 20 to 25 years ;)
04:03pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4534 posts
I think we have it really really good in Australia. Like one of the best countries in many ways in the entire world. But that doesnt mean we should be like "meh we are already good lets call it a day"The "work hard geta roof over your head" sounds ok until you realise you will never own that home or roof over your head so long as you stay working for the man. But yes you will get just enough to pay the man the rent for the roof and just that little bit more like a pub night out a sports game on the Sunday and 3 meals a day. Its not the 50's. Wage disparity is a real thing. If you think that in the 50's the boss of the business made on average 5 times the wage, every week, as the guy on the floor. These days its more like 5000 times, or more, especially if you look at corps paging a monthly wage of $36 to 3rd world folks to make whatever.The divide between have and have not is widening. The guys up the top are buying up everything at the bottom.Russell Brand said a lot of good stuff. Like i said his heart is in the right place. But yeah society is f***ed. It would take some major actions to put things back together again so that it wasn't broken and thats just for Australia. Everything from how we judge "success" what does it mean to be rich, who should get a say who deserves to be heard. Fair pay for fair work. What is enough profit. How much do we support the needy. How should we be governed. What should the ruling class look like. There is like hundreds of things that need looking at and changing and what not. I say we give plato's republic idea's a shot ie. the Hoi Phylakes guardians - if we start today we can have new better government in about 20 to 25 years ;)


You the nail bang on the head there mate although i think the worst corps in the world are paying around 500 times the average employee.

I have this conversation with americans pretty often and they just cant get their heads around the fact that the a******* at the top of the tree are taking way to big of a bite out of their respective companies. They are so sold on the bulls*** they get fed by the corporate media they think the country will die if wages go up even a fraction. I then point out how well the US isnt going well is it using that train of thought, yet places like norway and australia are pretty much kicking ass and they cant grasp it. It usually ends with me being called an obama lover or a communist.

The media here has done a hell of a job selling s*** to these people and pretty much totally destroying the middle class and without so much as a whiimper from the masses. Its disgusting.
06:11pm 25/10/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37469 posts
It's all well and good demanding a utopian world, but how about a solution on how we achieve it? Extreme taxing on corporations is the only way I can see it happening. But I guess without growth/profits companies are pointless. Unless we completely change the economic system.
You can't have a utopian world (in the traditional sense of the word) until we become a post-scarcity economy (i.e., the kind that is posited in science fiction novels).

In the meantime, we can have a good-enough-fair-enough world which is more about balance and equality and less about the vast sorts of extremes of wealth that we see today in the USA. That's basically what I got out of Brand's talk; I think it's fair enough.

infi's casual dismissing of the Bolshevik Revolution (Yet Another Logical Fallacy, that of cherry picking) might incline one to forget about other similar events on the ever-turning wheel of history, like the French Revolution, which Wikipedia sums up somewhat eloquently thusly:

"... the common people of France became increasingly frustrated by the ineptitude of King Louis XVI and the continued decadence of the aristocracy."

Sounds so much like the modern USA it makes me want to weep.
06:43pm 25/10/13 Permalink
cJay
Sunshine Coast, Queensland
1394 posts
You the nail bang on the head there mate although i think the worst corps in the world are paying around 500 times the average employee.I have this conversation with americans pretty often and they just cant get their heads around the fact that the a******* at the top of the tree are taking way to big of a bite out of their respective companies. They are so sold on the bulls*** they get fed by the corporate media they think the country will die if wages go up even a fraction. I then point out how well the US isnt going well is it using that train of thought, yet places like norway and australia are pretty much kicking ass and they cant grasp it. It usually ends with me being called an obama lover or a communist.The media here has done a hell of a job selling s*** to these people and pretty much totally destroying the middle class and without so much as a whiimper from the masses. Its disgusting.


Land of the free become imprisoned by dept and consumerism driven by corporate greed. Now that I think about it how different do we have it in Australian? Seems like voting is a joke and if nutjobs like clive palmer can see that voting with a pencil that can easily be erased and re recorded then I guess we are all guilty of being stupid in the belief that we have free will and rights in this country. SO much dodgety s*** has gone down in the last century it makes me ashamed that the human race is bound by greed and power over others.

/sipps beer and contemplates
06:50pm 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20694 posts
infi's casual dismissing of the Bolshevik Revolution (Yet Another Logical Fallacy, that of cherry picking) might incline one to forget about other similar events on the ever-turning wheel of history, like the French Revolution, which Wikipedia sums up somewhat eloquently thusly:


it's perfectly relevant, the Bolshevik Revolution touted Marxist Communism as the Utopian solution to all woes and ended up killing more people than any other political revolution in the history of man. Utopian dreams inevitably lead to government power and then mass killings. After the Bolshevik revolution, Russia moved toward democracy accepting that Communism had failed.

The French Revolution resulted in a move towards democracy and they have not turned back. So thanks for proving my point trog ;)
07:01pm 25/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
140 posts
I love the word democracy., LOVE IT!!

I have it tattooed on my a*******.
07:11pm 25/10/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
442 posts
I love the word democracy., LOVE IT!!

I have it tattooed on my a*******.

Pics or didn't happen. Staple a sheet of paper with todays date to it as well.
07:15pm 25/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
141 posts
todays date.

You're a pissa.
07:23pm 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20695 posts
I love the word democracy., LOVE IT!!

I have it tattooed on my a*******.


Is your hole in the "o" or the "a"? I wonder is baz is a real person or a spambot? Trog you should have Captcha on this forum for bots like baz.

Russell Brandt reminds me a lot of Michael Moore. He states the bleeding obvious and then goes on to misrepresent it to tout his own agenda. Like that annoying person at a dinner party who says after you spill red wine on yourself "Somebody get a cloth!!". yeah thanks f***head.
07:34pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4535 posts
trog all someone has to do in the US to squash talk of equity in this country is lable those calling for it communists and everyone instantly freaks out and says its a bad idea. Its kid of like those people that label someone a racist for being critical of anything obama does. Its like some magic card that wins every debate on the topic.

This place to some degree still has its ideas firmly planted in the 1950's where you couldnt be tarred with a worse brush than being a commy while the middle class is being plundered for everything its worth. Because of that 50's attitude the general public here is just taking in the ass and doing and saying nothing about it. Its f*****g mind boggling.
07:34pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36727 posts
american politics are surely the most f***ed up in the world. possibly in a tie with zimbabwe
07:41pm 25/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
314 posts
A long way to getting past that scarcity based economy is if those who have "way too much" suddenly decide that "a fair amount " is suddenly a good idea.

But so long as we still have the idea that having s*** loads more then anyone else is something to be proud of and something to chase after that will never happen. You need to change attitudes not only at the top or from the ground up but also in the middle. This whole middle class aspirations to get to "the top" is what keeps the wheel rolling just as much as the old cliche of the lower class poor guy spending on smokes and booze and the same one with the fat cats not giving a s***

tho in australia no one seems to know what "class" they are. You get families on 200k swearing they are just middle class and people just above the poverty line also calling themselves middle class.

Like that annoying person at a dinner party who says after you spill red wine on yourself "Somebody get a cloth!!". yeah thanks f***head.


well f*** man next dinner party you can go get your own darn cloth

Michael Moore has even directly said at the end of one of his film directly (forgot which one) that none of what he talks about is hidden away or some secret. But thats the point. He goes on to say that while things are f***ed the people taking advantage of the situation are not concerned that anyone knows or that he is making films about it because the biggest thing the folks in power or taking advantage of how s*** is f***ed would worry about one thing. That is folks getting up off the couch and actually doing something about it. And that is not going to happen

But its why he makes his films - its the only real thing he can do to inspire people to do anything. More power to the guy
09:05pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4536 posts
Part of the problem there is that those f*****s with the disgusting amounts of cash see themselves having as their god given right whether they worked hard for it or not. They truely dont believe they owe anything to anyone and many of them see people tbey pay who ultimately make their business work as parasites they only pay because they have to.

You see it time and time again with corporations doing the absolute minimum they have to in a given country to make their money. Safety standards are a great example, a company in australia will swear all day long they are an upstanding corporate citizen yet when they set up shop in a country with loweror no standards they dont continue to meet the same standards they apparently hold so dearly in a place like australia.
09:24pm 25/10/13 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
118 posts
I hear that it's trendy to hate on Michael Moore, so I expect a bandwagon to form any minute now.
09:24pm 25/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
315 posts
i think most ppl give the reason they dont like Michael Moore is "because he is so biased"

Well you cant argue against that - he is. But its already been said in the thread just how f***ed up the american media situation is. How much power mainstream media like fox have hold of the average joe.

So the guy is only biased because he is up against: a very biased system to start with. ITs like a balance thing.

Any way i find his films entertaining - no matter what "message" he puts in them he makes the films very watchable

good entertainment with a pretty positive message? Whats not to like?
09:44pm 25/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
142 posts
Is your hole in the "o" or the "a"? I wonder is baz is a real person or a spambot? Trog you should have Captcha on this forum for bots like baz.Russell Brandt reminds me a lot of Michael Moore. He states the bleeding obvious and then goes on to misrepresent it to tout his own agenda. Like that annoying person at a dinner party who says after you spill red wine on yourself "Somebody get a cloth!!". yeah thanks f***head.



Yeah thanks f***head.
10:07pm 25/10/13 Permalink
beau
Brisbane, Queensland
262 posts
Revolution ehh... I'm thinking 'fight club' revolution.
If everyone dismissed the value we place on money, then we may have the revolution he is talking about.

or....

Aliens! That should put things in perspective.

Edit:
In all seriousness though... first step is a ban on all political advertising. Force people into critical thinking
10:11pm 25/10/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37470 posts
it's perfectly relevant, the Bolshevik Revolution touted Marxist Communism as the Utopian solution to all woes and ended up killing more people than any other political revolution in the history of man. Utopian dreams inevitably lead to government power and then mass killings. After the Bolshevik revolution, Russia moved toward democracy accepting that Communism had failed.
Well, that's my point - almost every other example of revolution in civilised society leads to democracy. It's a rare case where it leads to communism (and eventually, the revolution comes around again because it inevitably fails because the problems of wealth distribution aren't solved in an imperfect communist society, which basically all of them are in practice).
The French Revolution resulted in a move towards democracy and they have not turned back. So thanks for proving my point trog ;)
If you can find a more socialist democracy, let me know :)
10:20pm 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20696 posts
If you can find a more socialist democracy, let me know


I don't know of one major democracy that doesn't have progressive taxation - so they are all socialist democracies.

Russell Brand was rejecting democracy (so he would hardly advocate a Revolution towards democracy), although he failed to cite any viable alternative. That's about as handy as having a Doctor tell you you are sick.

I loved the bit in the interview where he said "a bunch of other boffins would be in charge of figuring stuff out", and then when the interviewer asked him how they would be selected he just shrugged his shoulders. His lack of foresight of that question proves for me how superficial he is.
10:29pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2226 posts
I don't think he rejected democracy, he rejected democracy with the current political and power structures in place - which can be pretty solidly argued have been static and under serving of much of the population for a long time. Note his references to Oxford and Eton, the political elite all come from the same group of people. It strikes me that's his point. Which makes sense, even on here there's been discussion about the need for more parties, or even a 3rd party, as good alternative options to the current ones.

It's really a discussion about the supposed ruling class that is in control now (and has been since the post WW2 era); which isn't really all that different to the ruling classes that were overthrown in the French, or other, revolutions. I would raise the idea that, architecturally, we're in the exact same kind of structural class system as before. It's just been updated for the 20th century - in developed countries the proletariat now has plentiful alcohol, booze, reality TV shows and highly influential media to keep them in check. The supposed middle class are also a kind of proletariat with a different set of controls and the delusion that they have freedom of choice and input (read: voting), to keep them in check. I think it's been well discussed academically (I'll have to do some searching to find sources), the notion of how the basic benefits for the people in developed countries have increased steadily really only as a means to keep them happy and participating in the system.

The proletariat now is immensely better off then they were in the early centuries, but do they have any more real control or input?

That's his core point, and he believes the gaps are widening, the ruling class is becoming more incompetent, and a revolution is potentially brewing. America is actually a great example, with their unbelievable wealth disparity and poverty for a 1st world country. A long with their democracy-paralyzing interest parties and corruption.

I would argue that we need to move to some kind of more widely socially beneficial democracy/capitalism hybrid that makes it more balanced, but of course not completely equal, and promotes sustainability and fosters our communities.

Perhaps it's the emphathic civilisation that's been theorised previously, see these vids from RSA Animate:

The Empathic Civilisation


21st Century Enlightenment


And that's not to mention the very real reality that we, the 1st world or developed countries, are enjoying our ways of lifee at the expense of the planet, and the exploitation of much of the 2nd and 3rd world - who make up most of the population.
11:04pm 25/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20697 posts
which isn't really all that different to the ruling classes that were overthrown in the French, or other, revolutions.


Well there is this little thing called elections, which the proles are heavily involved in (well except Russell Brand, would he call himself a prole? Maybe for a role.)

Do you think in the Utopian world old RustyRockets would agree to act for $55k a year?
11:15pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2227 posts
Yeah but the point is the elections make no difference, the parties are all pretty similar, and they all serve the same corporate or special interests behind them. You vote for a different party, nothing really changes. It's here that the lines to conspiracy theory start to become blurred, whether its the very real possibility of special interest and elite power groups serving the corporate need, or mad Illuminati conspiracies.

I agree with Trog that Utopia isn't possible, I do think the potential hybrid I've mentioned and that the RSA Animate series talk about, that is just more reasonably balanced (not a communist/socialist/hippie/whatever camp, which is the common strawman argument employed against this notion) is very possible.

In that hybrid rusty himself could charge similar fees; I think you could shave off the extreme top-end of the scale (wheres that American wealth graph?) and make a huge difference. We have enough privately owned wealth in the word to end world poverty several times over, and all that jazz.
11:21pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Ha
274 posts
i posted my last drunk as f*** but after reading every other retarded thing i've come to the conclusion that keeping the current system but overthrowing the current pisstakers is the best solution. congratulations, me, you won.
11:46pm 25/10/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2228 posts
Here we go, sure you've all seen this, still mind blowing.

Wealth Inequality in America

12:17am 26/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
143 posts
Spirituality should be taught in schools.

Before anyone starts bangin on about how s*** religion is, most of us are naturally spiritual but may not be aware of it.
I believe knowledge is power but once you understand some simple principles of spirituality, like consciousness, knowledge becomes more like entertainment.
12:29am 26/10/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23554 posts
People can be spiritual if it pleases them. I bet for some people it is really healthy. The exact moment I knew Dawkins was a d*** was when he said spirituality is inherently bad.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say most of us are naturally spirited. When you say consciousness you mean some sort of mind over matter thing right?
12:44am 26/10/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20698 posts
Consciousness to me is an actualisation of whatever is meaningful to you. It is purely cerebral - like the higher level of Maslow's Hierarchy.
01:00am 26/10/13 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
581 posts
A Diva is a female version of a hustler, of a of a hustler.
01:01am 26/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
149 posts
People can be spiritual if it pleases them. I bet for some people it is really healthy. The exact moment I knew Dawkins was a d*** was when he said spirituality is inherently bad. I'm not sure what you mean when you say most of us are naturally spirited. When you say consciousness you mean some sort of mind over matter thing right?


Spirituality is merely ones values. Everyone has values ie what is wrong and right.
It comes from deep inside us, its not something you think about.
Consciousness is our ability to not think.

I can explain that easiest by asking what happens when you are in an emergency situation where you react more than think.
Some people say that base jumpers are addicted to adrenaline, but its more than that. They put themselves in a position where thought is blown away and reaction or consciousness is forced onto the mind. Most of them probably dont realise it but they become very spiritual when they force their mind to become one with their body.

Another way to explain it would be to ask you to sit quietly without any outside stimulus and just be. Dont think anything.
That being that lacks any thought is our spirit. Our mind will throw all sorts of horse s*** at us because thats what it does. Just sit and wait for a thought, i guarantee you it wont take long..... If you can go 5 seconds without judging the experience you will be doing well. Use your mind for a purpose, its just a tool, you can put it down if you want. More than that, your mind can use you and for many people this is the case.

I realised recently that the things you do without thinking are the most rewarding. Unfortunately spirituality is seen as lame due to the connection it has with organised religion. Most religious texts are an excellent source of spiritual enlightenment, but the messages have become so overlaid with extraneous matter that their spiritual essence has become almost completely obscured by it.
02:05am 26/10/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37471 posts
People can be spiritual if it pleases them. I bet for some people it is really healthy. The exact moment I knew Dawkins was a d*** was when he said spirituality is inherently bad.
What does "being spiritual" mean though? It is a broad phrase (so broad it's almost meaningless). In my experience it means "I like to use vague wishy washy thinking to justify my desire to not apply critical thinking to everything I do", in which case I'd be inclined to agree with Dawkins.

Maybe there is some subset of spirituality that can be better defined that wouldn't irritate me so much.

Why are we talking about that anyway?
I don't know of one major democracy that doesn't have progressive taxation - so they are all socialist democracies.
Yep, but it's not a binary scale, it is a sliding scale. What I got from Brand was he wants to simply change the scale.
Russell Brand was rejecting democracy (so he would hardly advocate a Revolution towards democracy), although he failed to cite any viable alternative. That's about as handy as having a Doctor tell you you are sick.
I didn't really watch the whole thing so maybe I missed part of it, but i never got the impression he was rejecting democracy at all.

I think if US tax levels went back to historical levels (especially when they were at war) there would not have been a lot at all for him to talk about, so maybe he's a one-trick pony in that regard.
09:57am 26/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
155 posts
Not gonna rattle on about it, but there is a growing respect in the scientific community for spirituality. There is a form of meditation called Mindfulnesss which has proven to help people with all sorts of issues from drug addiction to physical ailments.
They have found that the Pre-frontal cortex - the anterior part of the frontal lobes of the brain can be enlarged by practising Mindfulness. Up until 10 years ago science thought the brain was a static size but they couldn't have been more wrong. You can if you wish exercise your brain and make it bigger, they have found Tibetan Monks have a larger Pre-frontal Cortex than the rest of us, which has given rise to a the concept of neuroplasticity, the brains ability to change.

I like this article but there are some more reputable sources, Im sure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43006-2005Jan2.html


So there is hope and furthermore I cant help but feel that our addiction to critical thinking is a obstacle to our progress, not the vehicle. Food for thought.
12:14pm 26/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
318 posts
hey baz from what you are saying you would like that new ABC show about exercising your brain - its all about brain plasticity. If you havent already been watching the show:

See Australian television personality Todd Sampson put brain training to the test as he undergoes a radical brain makeover in a three-part documentary series on the revolutionary new science of brain plasticity. The cutting edge science has found that anyone can become smarter, improve their memory and reverse mental ageing with the right brain training. It can turn an ordinary brain into a super brain in just three months. The fastest growing science on the planet, brain plasticity will revolutionize how we live in the future.


ive only seen the 1st ep but it seems like it covers some interesting ground
02:16pm 26/10/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23555 posts
What does "being spiritual" mean though?
Nothing really specific. All I was getting at is if people want to treat themselves with crystals and new age remedies and it works for them via the placebo effect, then good for them. They are doing a thing that makes them feel better. Of course what isn't okay is when they start treating their children's chest infections with new age stuff, but I believe there are people out there responsible enough to have a strong spiritual side while still being able to embrace real medicine as well.

That article doesn't say anything about monk's having larger prefrontal cortexes. It mentions brains becoming bigger, but when they describe the actual study they make no mention of it. They just say that a group that exercises and uses a certain part of the brain more than the control group seems to have more activity in that section of the brain while being monitored. Nothing really mind-blowing about that.

So there is hope and furthermore I cant help but feel that our addiction to critical thinking is a obstacle to our progress, not the vehicle. Food for thought.
Nope, that's dumb.
02:21pm 26/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
320 posts
lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"

You don't happen to hang out in west end with people who like to talk about their angel spirit guides?
03:37pm 26/10/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11255 posts
Mindfulness and meditation is the bomb, I have been doing some metta meditation recently. It is based on Buddhist teachings but you don't have to be religious to try to fully perceive the world around you in each moment.
03:43pm 26/10/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4423 posts
lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"You don't happen to hang out in west end with people who like to talk about their angel spirit guides?



ahh, but those are solid state crystals, they create a much nicer arguement
04:00pm 26/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
321 posts
nah the meta state ones work better
04:07pm 26/10/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23556 posts
lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"
I know you're still smarting from that beating you took about being a dumb as s*** audiophile, but you should probably try reading whole sentences before typing out your zinger replies. I said nothing really specific for a reason. Spirituality means a whole bunch of things - people who are into new age healing methods are just one particular example I used.
04:28pm 26/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
323 posts
love how you refer to a thread - in which i got jumped by about 4 of you flat earther chumps and you didnt manage to prove one opinion i stated was inaccurate - as a win. Or the fact you even refer to it at all in a separate thread on a totally different topic as some kind of boost for your ego or rep or what ever you seem to believe. Are you that insecure with your forum standing?

It just seems you are so good at posting vague content and then backing away and crying "thats not what i said" when called on it. Maybe dont be so vague? Have an opinion if you have one if you dont have one or you are not sure just say that?

So to be clear now you believe "spirituality" is a good thing. A noble pursuit for an individual and one that has meaning and a place in the modern age?

Because all your talk of crystal healing and new age remedies seemed to indicate you were dismissive and lets face it a little ignorant of what "spirituality" actually is

apologies if i misread your intent of the post
05:10pm 26/10/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23557 posts
It's because you obviously have your tail up about it. There was nothing vague about what I said, it's just you're a little dense and have a bit of trouble understanding stuff. Maybe try reading things twice before you reply, you might do a bit better that way. It's quite embarrassing for you to say you are calling people out on things when really you just didn't comprehend it properly.

I am accepting of anything that people do to themselves that makes them feel good and has no negative effects on other people. On a personal level I am dismissive of just about anything described as spiritual and especially of new age healing. That doesn't mean I hate it or resent people for using it, I just know it doesn't work so won't bother wasting my time with it.
05:26pm 26/10/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
454 posts
I bet you love these subjective spirituality/art/politics/war/religion threads Rules.

None of these things you can neither prove or disprove and all of them have goods and bads, keeping the s****torm going like one big poo-donut.

Lol @ the onus of disproof: "Aliens landed on Mercury yesterday. If you can't find an article that says aliens didn't land on Mercury yesterday, then I am right in what I say."
05:28pm 26/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
324 posts
now you mention it i have never seen you post up an opinion?

sure you post up things like which GPU is better based of stats or benchmarks or what car is better because it has some bit of hardware installed or can go so fast or whatever but never have i seen an actual human opinion from you on something that doesn't rely on stats someone else has already put up on the web

I guess it must be nice living in such a clear cut black and white world where you are not burdened by those,,, human issues. All those pesky grey area's that you are completely oblivious to. The humanities the social sciences, spiritualism. You know all those things that are still just theories. All those complex and difficult issues where you have to form an opinion based on faith, best guess and incomplete evidence.

It must be nice having the personality of a human search engine and not have to worry about actually risking someone on the net having a different opinion to your safely searched and stat backed up statements

And while a cardboard cut out of your avatar image would have all the personality you possess we do, after all, need simple people just like you too
06:27pm 26/10/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
455 posts
now you mention it i have never seen you post up an opinion?

I just posted an opinion directly above yours. I suppose you could say it's based off stats because statistically speaking, you're a moron.
07:07pm 26/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
156 posts
fpot



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811909000044

I believe its a fairly commonly known fact that people who meditate have significantly larger pre-frontal cortex'.

Heres a video that might clarify some of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEo6RI4Wvs

EDIT: I linked the wrong vid earlier.


Nope, that's dumb.

I would really appreciate if you could refrain from being derogatory, I'm trying to have a discussion, and it is unnecessary.

Where does true creativity come from? I'm not talking about art, music or entertainment, but scientific creativity. The stuff that happens to inventors and scientists when they have an epiphany and make a ground breaking discovery that changes the whole landscape of our world. It dosnt come from thinking about a problem until you figure it out. Scientific creativity comes from a lack of thought. I see the definition of critical thinking in Wiki incorporates creativity, but I from what I understand creativity and critical thinking are separate.


http://www.bygeorgejournal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/einstein_creativity.jpg
07:51pm 26/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
157 posts
hey baz from what you are saying you would like that new ABC show about exercising your brain - its all about brain plasticity. If you havent already been watching the show:


Haven't seen it, Ill watch that Ta.
08:01pm 26/10/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37474 posts
I would really appreciate if you could refrain from being derogatory, I'm trying to have a discussion, and it is unnecessary.
I actually thought that was, for fpot, remarkably restrained (but perhaps still somewhat inappropriate).

However, I will add that you cannot invoke a scientific study to support an argument that critical thinking is an obstacle to our progress.

Anyway, we can have a conversation about that another day; lets try to get back to Brand's comments on ZE DEMOCRAZIEZ
10:31am 27/10/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
462 posts
I dislike those reporters who certainly brush off as smart and articulate but when they get into interviews, they ask pointless questions.

Like "If you don't vote, why should we listen to you?" - Skip the crap mate, you spent an hour moving your gear into a hotel room, waiting for him to arrive, then you ask why they should listen? Why the world should listen? I didn't realise that voting gave such a drastically differing point of view to the world.

He was trying to hold contempt against Russell for not voting.. Well I vote, so if it's such a hinging factor, I should quite easily be able to get onto the same news show and spill my guts? (The reporter knows there is much more behind it all than just who does and doesn't vote, but the tabloidish questions, sheesh)

Edit: I'm sure if he voted, they would have reversed the same question: "Well if you're so against the system why do you vote and support it? Why should we listen to someone who says the system sucks, but then participates in it?" A wasted question that was the basis of half the ranting.
10:39am 27/10/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4295 posts
I went to his stand up tour currently in progress

somehow a man who has eight minutes of material about arse-licking isn't my go-to guy on political matters, but he's surprisingly eloquent about it anyway
12:28pm 27/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
158 posts
I actually thought that was, for fpot, remarkably restrained (but perhaps still somewhat inappropriate). However, I will add that you cannot invoke a scientific study to support an argument that critical thinking is an obstacle to our progress. Anyway, we can have a conversation about that another day; lets try to get back to Brand's comments on ZE DEMOCRAZIEZ


I'm just a bit sensitive with insults and I like to let people know so they don't inadvertently cloud my judgement with their unnecessary pretentiousness.

I appreciate a the air time you gave allowed me thus far Trog, but I will cease this train of discussion here in a conclusion of sorts. You are right to say I cannot provide a scientific basis for my opinion, but I will endeavour to do more research on the subject as I just find it really interesting.

btw I didnt say that critical thinking was an obstacle, I said that our addiction to critical thinking may be an obsticle.
I will leave it at that. Thanks for your time.
01:18pm 27/10/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10781 posts
Peter Hitchins gives his own insights into the failure of the Political system in Britain.

01:09am 28/10/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
331 posts
seems like a racist with his anti immigration bend

most of those "immigrants" come from countries Brittan conquered and brought into the empire
01:31am 28/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
166 posts
01:44am 28/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
170 posts
I wonder if Brands enthusiasm comes from a fear that our ability to communicate instantaneously will be compromised as soon as the powers that be can put a lid on it.

The time is now apparently.

What a f***** boffin, we are not going to see an internet filter, thats preposterous.

The filter is just a mind fart, no need to take it seriously..
03:35am 28/10/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2229 posts
They've brought in a form of internet filtering in the UK (which I still find flabbergasting).

Prime Minister David Cameron has announced that UK internet service providers (ISPs) will be putting pornography filters on domestic internet connections.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23403068

Australia has tried to do it a couple of times.
08:23pm 28/10/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37481 posts
I wonder if Brands enthusiasm comes from a fear that our ability to communicate instantaneously will be compromised as soon as the powers that be can put a lid on it.
Well, they can't really put that genie back in the bottle without fundamentally impacting the way the Internet works
What a f***** boffin, we are not going to see an internet filter, thats preposterous.
Brand is from the UK, where - like in Australia - there is already Internet filtering taking place (here's some recent stuff).
10:19am 29/10/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
171 posts
Well - thats quite discombobulating.
07:23pm 29/10/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10788 posts
Topher Field? says Russell is right about the problem but wrong about the solution.




12:30am 01/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
385 posts
i see he is successfully channeling a keanu haircut from 1999

he kind of lost me as soon as he stopped agreeing with Russel and started on about smaller government.

Did he mean this idea of "small government"? We already know that is just rhetoric. We know our Liberal friends go on about "small government" but then try to tell people who they can and cannot marry (the whole gay marriage thing atm) which is a huge impact on civil liberties - its a really big thing for a supposed "small government"

does he really think if we take away the governments ability to make big changes: like implement mining taxes, carbon taxes, set minimum wages, dictate how many sick days people are entitled to and how much tax the rich middle and poor should pay (and the list goes on and on) that corporations are just "going to do the right thing"?

In countries where governments are not strong do corporations do the right thing? Especially foreign corporations?
12:55am 01/11/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2232 posts
Some interesting points, if only he didn't say govERNment.
12:56am 01/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
183 posts
Money

People and money.

Whats wrong with this setup.

06:41pm 01/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
241 posts
Quantum fizzisist n that.


12:46am 13/11/13 Permalink
Jim
UK
13371 posts
01:07am 13/11/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23625 posts
Quantum physics and pseudoscience - the best of bedfellows.
01:22am 13/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
242 posts
Fgot - the founder of micro masturbation, shocks the world with his knowledge of bedfellows.
01:48am 13/11/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23626 posts
uh oh, we aren't melting down there are we?
01:50am 13/11/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2239 posts
For the politically interested, these are some good responses to Brand's suggested ideas:

Dear Russell, choosing to vote is the most British kind of revolution there is.

Russell Brand: Good Pundit, Bad Thinker.
02:06am 13/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
252 posts
I am positive Russell Brand could be a better politician than all of the f***wits in power at the moment.

Tell you what, why don't you give a source to disprove this.. That shouldn't be too hard>?
01:13am 17/11/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20768 posts
Nah Russell Brand is just a spoilt kid and someone gave him a microphone.
01:57am 17/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
254 posts
Or maybe you are conditioned by the antiquated values of your parents. Dont get me wrong I love the simple ideals of the early 20th but kids these days..

Can you really spoil your kids? Can you give them too much love?

Spank you for your thoughts infi.
If your into that sort of thing.
02:21am 17/11/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3430 posts
i've seen enough of his talk show/comedy show/whatever you call that to have the opinion that he's basically quacky enough that masses find him interesting because he's eccentric and he's used it to be some kind of walking talking advertising guy. he can hold a crowds attention for longer than usual because of that weird nihilism about him that's engaging and you just can't seem to look away from. the most interesting thing about him is his hot popstar girlfriend :)

dave grohl has a similar eccentric creative flare and personality. it's nihilism and it works because it challenges the status quo for change and innovation which is similar to the relationship that a democratic population has with their government

steve jobs was a well balanced nihilist





and so the last time a nihilist what a 'good politician' was probably Hitler.... and i don't reckon the Polish or the Jews would have very fond memories of mein furore oke?
02:22am 17/11/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20769 posts
i rate him on the same level as karl pilkington. he has some quirky insights but none of it is relevant to the real world - he is a comedic caricature. i think russell operates in a utopia from his drug-addled past.
02:36am 17/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
255 posts
The drug reference is a cop out and you know it.

Comedians are generally very smart, if not they are too smart. Not like herr derr I spent 15 years at skool working out how to make a software that sells milliuns of units, but actually intelligent to the point that "normal" human beings pay comedians to insult the s*** out of them....... whilst they larf at it...... and they get paid for it.

This took me 5 seconds to google.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/56107/10-best-political-comedians-of-all-time



Karl Pilkington would make an excellent politician as well. lol.. lol.... haha.
02:56am 17/11/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20770 posts
If by smart you mean witty then yes he is smart. Witty means he can make a cheap wise crack for a laugh in a standup show of people who have paid $100+ to see him and are conditioned to laugh at whatever he has to say. Smart to me means he can make sense of complex social and political systems and offer practical public policy solutions - which at no point he does in the OP video.

He states the bleeding obvious so thank Russell!! you have achieved squat.
03:12am 17/11/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3431 posts
how about that dribbling gronk they let on channel 31 at some messed up hour

that homo talks so much trash i'm surprised he doesn't have a fulltime job at a dump
01:31pm 17/11/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
678 posts
that homo talks so much trash i'm surprised he doesn't have a fulltime job at a dump
01:57pm 17/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
256 posts
I believe wit is a huge indicator of intellect. Having the ability to react instinctively and immediately with a witty comment demonstrates a mental aptitude that very few of us have. Also laughing is involuntary by the way, nobody is conditioned to laugh at something they find funny. Thats like saying that people are conditioned to scream when they stick their hand in a fire or that people are conditioned to circulate their blood. There are some fundamentally universal rules to make a "wise crack" and being able to apply them to a situation in an instant is a gift. Finally wit has nothing to do with standup comedy. Wit involves interaction or interplay with another person and stand up is just a prepared show performed to an audience.

Theres probably a big difference between Russell's ability to understand complex social and political systems and his inclination to do so. I would guess he could understand complex social and political systems but he hasn't donated much time into it, yet. Anybody could understand complex social and political systems really but not everyone can be witty. Thats not something you can read in a textbook, wouldn't you agree? Needless to say humor is a very powerful tool for getting attention and I applaud his efforts to bring attention to these issues. Good on him.
02:08pm 17/11/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4556 posts
Also laughing is involuntary by the way, nobody is conditioned to laugh at something they find funny. Thats like saying that people are conditioned to scream when they stick their hand in a fire.



Yet everyday millions of men the world over laugh a women that aren't funny in hopes of getting lucky.

Sorry to say it dude but you're an idiot.
02:29pm 17/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
257 posts
Good grief. Are you f***en serious.
03:39pm 17/11/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3432 posts
the core of it is this: conservative humour subtly derides idiocy and awards intelligensia. it's a sit back and wait mentality that imagines that 'they'll eventually f*** up enough that they'll come crawling back and that's when i've got them eating out of my hand' it's called not biting the hand that feeds, and it's more than a theory of control. old establishment grumps have this form of humour.

happy days: the fonz is too cool and get's so much attention all the geeks and nerds sledge him because

the big bang theory: a comedy show right? it's mostly about bagging penny because she's too cool for school. trog doesn't find relating to any of the geeky characters funny

sarah silvermann show: it's about matt damon and sarah silvermann singing a song about f*****g and her cray comedy skits bagging her 'gay' pot smoking buddies

little britain: about as close to pure politics and comedy as it gets. with all sorts of crazy from bi curious gender bending to hugging whales



comedy's just generational and subjective. what's funny to some a****** may rub some other c*** up the wrong way



i hope you don't develop your sense of humour and makes jokes about the wrong things. it's just trash talking and back biting with an expiry date
03:55pm 17/11/13 Permalink
HERMITech
Brisbane, Queensland
8391 posts
Comedians are generally very smart, if not they are too smart. Not like herr derr I spent 15 years at skool school working out how to make a software that sells milliuns of units, but actually intelligent to the point that "normal" human beings pay comedians to insult the s*** out of them....... whilst they larf laugh at it...... and they get paid for it.
05:51pm 17/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
259 posts
I like to spell laugh, larf...for a larghf. :)
Skool and Milliuns was just tung in cheak.

Sorry.
Wont happen again.

------

Its amazing how many comedians have political material.
I think the only ones who dont are Bobcat Goldthwait, Charlie Chaplin and the dudes that do Puppetry of the penis.
09:27pm 17/11/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
680 posts
They're against you baz. You can tell by how petty they have become.

Clench your anus. HNNNNGG.
09:38am 18/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
273 posts
Hope I can drop these here, kinda relevant to the topic.

Russell makes US news anchors completly bug out.


Interesting thoughts, I thought the Darwinian theory stuff was good.


A pretty long but detailed interview covering asking his opinion on many things.
07:54am 23/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
548 posts
Its amazing how many comedians have political material.
I think the only ones who dont are Bobcat Goldthwait, Charlie Chaplin and the dudes that do Puppetry of the penis


u having a larf baz? Im not sure about the penis people but charlie chaplin was hugely political in his time via his style and works:

parodying the nazi's



on beating on the immigrant (refugee)



he was on the side of the "people" and opposed any power of oppression of the people. A very clever guy
04:54pm 23/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
274 posts
LOL fair enuf, I've only seen his mute clown routines. Excuse my ignorance. I'll scratch him off the list, thanks.

I better find out if Bobcat Goldthwait does political humor as well, and the puppetry of the penis guys contort their junk to look like stuff. Maybe they do politicians as well.
No wait...all pollies look like d****.

You've really brought me undone here bookz, TA. :)
05:09pm 23/11/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36863 posts
Also laughing is involuntary by the way, nobody is conditioned to laugh at something they find funny


yer, i dunno, i see a lot of people rock up to sub standard stand up comedians and proceed to laugh the nite away to s*** that just isnt funny.
05:45pm 23/11/13 Permalink
baz
Victoria
275 posts
Some people are addicted to laughing I guess. Laughter is good for you man. Very f***en good for you. Its the opposite of stress, which is very f***en bad for you.
Also... humor is in the eye of the beholder.


Yet everyday millions of men the world over laugh a women that aren't funny in hopes of getting lucky.

Sorry to say it dude but you're an idiot.


Perhaps you and Taipan see laughing as weak. Maybe its a luxury afforded only to the dumb......putting it out there.

I am talking about true laughter, not a fake response to a s*** joke that is just a token understanding of the humor implied. I give token larfs to many people, simply because they have made an effort to make me larf, but deep down I feel I wasn't honest. I should have told them to shut the f*** up I suppose?

Needless to say when something is truly funny to YOU, YOU WILL LARF!!.
11:00pm 23/11/13 Permalink
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