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Australian Federal Election 2013
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37286 posts
It's almost voting time! The Federal Election is about to kick off. I know, you're probably surprised that you hadn't heard about it because the media have been pretty quiet, not to mention calm and rational.

I won't use the OP to put in any of my opinions (plenty of time for that in the comments), but I will say that I hope people take the time to carefully consider their vote and make sure they're voting for the party that they think best reflects their own personal requirements.

Look at their policies carefully and make sure you understand them. Don't think just because you (or your family and friends) have always voted one way in the past that you need to vote that way in the future.

Please keep the debate interesting, polite, and evidence-based.

Useful resources:

- List of parties registered for the federal election
- Comic about how preferential works, explaining how you can't "waste your vote"
- ABC's Votecompass

Please see the previous thread for context of continued discussions. It was locked just because it had grown a little giant and was causing the occasional slow page load (also this has a more appropriate subject :)
09:24am 02/09/13 Permalink
system
Internet
--
09:24am 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23256 posts
Can you please put an emphasis on evidence based? What dumbed up the last thread was people making big sweeping claims and then even when requested posting no evidence to back it up. This just creates silly circular arguments that serve no purpose.

Also, how about banning newsdotcomdotau links just for this thread. They are just trash that stifle discussion also.
09:32am 02/09/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2662 posts
+1 for banning newsdotcomdotau links.. do it forum wide though.
09:43am 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8087 posts
I'm gonna treat the fine line of news.com.au being banned...
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2402/wl5x.jpg

;)
09:43am 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37288 posts
Also, how about banning newsdotcomdotau links just for this thread. They are just trash that stifle discussion also.
It's pretty tempting but in the interests of free and unfettered discussion I'd rather not - instead I guess you can just judge the quality of the person's arguments by whether or not the only evidence they can supply is a newscomau link :) (Also it'd be hard to block that and not the other sites that republish content, like Courier Mail and the other ones)
09:43am 02/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2430 posts
09:50am 02/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7926 posts
I was super unhappy about a populist such as Rudd making PM.

I'll be far more unhappy if a *dishonest* populist such as Abbot makes PM, with carbon dioxide being invisible as a reason not to do anything about it (along with radiation and oxygen I suppose...), mine stoppages supposedly being caused by the "carbon tax" even when BHP denies it, not to mention his complete lack of professional experience in anything except being an opinion piece writer and a politician.

Rudd set the precedent in this country, Abbott took it to an entirely worse level.
10:02am 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8088 posts
I just cannot believe this guy is going to be the next leader of our country. I couldn't care either way for most other representatives of the party, but this particular guy - he's a religious jackass who thinks it's okay to force his way of life on to others through law, despite being morally reprehensible.
10:07am 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23257 posts
Haha, I just saw that you bolded evidence based. What I meant was in how the thread was moderated :)
10:09am 02/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17396 posts
Vote #1 Ironman
10:27am 02/09/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3265 posts
I'm voting for Palmer because he knows how to run a multi-billion dollar business and build a boat that for sure wont sink this time, whereas Abbott wants to buy boats that have a tendency to sink.

Also because he knows how to twerk, Krudd cannot twerk.
10:28am 02/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18688 posts
i'd like to see tone's daughters twerk it, i'd consider voting for that
10:31am 02/09/13 Permalink
Audi
Perth, Western Australia
352 posts
Saw yesterday in the paper TAB odds: Coalition 1.05
ALP 9.20

God I hope Kevin loses his own seat. The guys a pratt.
10:41am 02/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7927 posts
Some Lib digital goals: http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/coalitions-policy-for-e-government-and-the-digital-economy

I've wanted this for a while, just disappointed somebody beat me to getting all the credit for coming up with it:
Trial an opt-in ‘digital pigeonhole’ from 2014 for the growing number of Australians who want to go ‘paperless’ – a free, secure digital inbox for communication from all levels of Government;

Moving house should not cut me off from attempts at communication in this era.
10:44am 02/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10039 posts
I honestly like Liberal's policies, at least most of them besides the troublesome ones like NBN, university cuts and the very bizarre paid parental scheme. The biggest problem I have with this election is that its now just a "lesser of two evils" situation, instead of what we've previously had where one party was a clear winner with their policies and stances.

In my opinion, Tony will be Australia's George W. Bush. He is a buffoon that doesn't know when to close his mouth and can't work outside of a script (seriously, who just nods silently at a reporter?). If someone else was leading the party I think you'd get a more positive vibe, but sadly Tony just brings that down by a large margin. This is why I think it may be a close one, and though we won't see a minor government it definitely won't be as large of a swing as people are expecting.

I also want to reiterate my post in the last thread, in that if someone chooses to vote either Liberal or Labor, they shouldn't be struck down as a stereotypical "bogan" or "money hungry" person. The point of voting is to express your opinion on which party you want to lead Australia, and some policies will look better to other people. If the NBN is such a big swing to some, then so be it, but don't go saying they are "porn hungry" or moronic nerds just because they want faster Internet. That is the whole point of voting for policies that you want.
10:49am 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8089 posts
I'm voting for Palmer because...

Are you? I mean are you legitimately voting for Palmer? By that I mean is he in your electorate?

Australias politcal system is broken. Even though it's taboo to do so, I would wager that if you went and asked ten random people on the street "Who will you be voting for in this federal election?", they will answer either "Abbott", "Rudd", or "The greens". Note that I say Abbott and Rudd and not Labour or Liberal - because they are the face of those parties, and yet still people will think they're voting for a single individual rather than for the party. Which they still aren't.

We've come up with a system where you could end up putting up for election the most rednecked a******, and he'll get voted in because of what party he's a member of. Individually the other guy could have a solution to world peace, but all most people care about is "I'm voting for Rudd/Abbott!".

NO!

Voting for or against that guy isn't voting for the leader of the party! All you're doing is helping to elect the same idiots who, in ten years time, you're going to be asking: "Who the hell put this idiot in power?"

The answer to that question comes directly from this. Five years ago people will have said "I'm voting for Howard"... and somewhere tucked away in Northern Sydney, 65,000 people decided, on the basis of "I'm voting for Howard", for the rest of Australia to put in to parliament Tony Abbott.

This is how we've ended up with people like Stephen Conroy in the Senate, and, worse, Richard Alston before him.

Do us all a favour and go and actually look up the individual opinions of your specific local MP. Better yet, go check out their voting record! You might find that they vary greatly from the leader you think you're voting for - as much as they're allowed to when they're made to tow the party line, that is. Or, alternatively, you might find the the opposition representative for you area, in actual fact, disagrees with that policy held by a leader you so hate.

Sadly, most voters won't do this. Australia's next leader - not Rudd or Abbott, but the one who comes after them - is sadly going to be determined based on how many people like Rudd or Abbott better.

I wish there were something that could be done people voting this way.
10:59am 02/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
126 posts
http://www.belowtheline.org.au/ and http://senate.io/

are pretty useful if you're interested in voting below the line. Also good for seeing where preferences head to if you vote for a minor party in the senate.

11:00am 02/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7928 posts
Heh, Palmer himself is actually in my electorate, at least.
11:07am 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8090 posts
Hah, I was just looking at who the full list of people was for my electorate, and figured I'd further investigate this 'Rise up Australia' party. The simplest way to do this was to first look at where their preferences went.

1. Rise Up Australia.
2. Family First.

At this point I stopped reading.
11:15am 02/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6212 posts
as much as they're allowed to when they're made to tow the party line, that is.



toe
11:22am 02/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10660 posts
11:25am 02/09/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4283 posts
Heh, Palmer himself is actually in my electorate, at least.

he's so fat how could he not be
11:26am 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37289 posts
Hah, I was just looking at who the full list of people was for my electorate, and figured I'd further investigate this 'Rise up Australia' party. The simplest way to do this was to first look at where their preferences went.

1. Rise Up Australia.
2. Family First.

At this point I stopped reading.
Yeh, preferences can be a pretty good guide, although I was weirded out by the Wikileaks party preferences. It looks like there's a bit of controversy and crisis there though, with Assange claiming the preferences were error, and now Crikey is claiming [registration required] to have some leaked internal email from the party (ironing is delicious) that is not the case.

Haven't really kept up with WLP though so not really sure what is going on.
11:41am 02/09/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2645 posts
and evidence-based.


Trog do you even politics? There is a reason people don't support the things they say with research papers. There's a reason for the lack of any sort of board of social scientists or psychologists in the federal level of any country. Nobody gives a f*** about evidence or evidence based practice.

Hell, the next leader of our country -does not believe in man made climate change-. You expect people posting in an online forum to back up all of their claims? good luck moderating that pal :p
11:42am 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8091 posts
Wikileaks being undone by an internal leak? Now that's just amusing.
11:42am 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
996 posts
If you are referring to the senate preference tickets, it is subject to some seriously cynical political strategy.
Antony green gives is a decent treatment here

Something about preference harvesting. Anywho it means that the fringe parties crack some pretty f***ed preference deals.
12:12pm 02/09/13 Permalink
cJay
Brisbane, Queensland
1383 posts
I'm at a loss, one week to go and I thinking of voter for Clive Palmer just out of protest.
12:28pm 02/09/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1832 posts
I was super unhappy about a populist such as Rudd making PM.I'll be far more unhappy if a *dishonest* populist such as Abbot makes PM ....Rudd set the precedent in this country, Abbott took it to an entirely worse level.


John Hewson was the last leader who tried to run a positive and policy based campaign, and that didn't work out well. Ever since then all campaigns have been populist crap seasoned with outright lies and aggressive attacks on the other side.
12:44pm 02/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4402 posts
and for the first time voters, or anyone for that matter, the Virgin Voters site may give you some information to help.

http://www.virginvoters.com.au/

01:08pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10040 posts
See now this is just stupid. It is offering facts, yes, but its just doing it in the weirdest and most out there way possible. Dramatic music, flashy effects and negative views is just pure slandering. Why not just offer them in a sensible way so you don't make your party look like children who've had their toy taken away from them?
01:19pm 02/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
445 posts
SheerObesity, how did you get that? I know the people involved in that conversation...

It's also funny you blocked out the part where this was posted. http://m.smh.com.au/comment/australia-you-dont-know-how-good-youve-got-it-20130901-2sytb.html


It was brought to my attention by a mutual friend. That screenshot was taken and given to me after the 4 comments were posted, i didn't see anymore comments after that.

Hah, I was just looking at who the full list of people was for my electorate, and figured I'd further investigate this 'Rise up Australia' party. The simplest way to do this was to first look at where their preferences went.

1. Rise Up Australia.
2. Family First.

At this point I stopped reading.


You are in my electorate aren't you? This "Rise Up Australia" party have been going pretty hard here, but they seem awfully dodgy and extremist.

From their website

The party was started by Danny Nalliah and operates under the tagline "Keep Australia Australian".


It's ironic because Danny Nalliah is Tamil Sri Lankan and most of the candidates are Sri Lankan too.

Aims of the party include opposition to multiculturalism, preserving Australia's "Judeo-Christian heritage" and cuts to Australia’s "Muslim intake", as well as the protection of freedom of speech, and freedom of religion.
01:22pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
997 posts
Seems a little disingenuous to compare two three year cycles to one 12 year cycle. some study that says life is better under labor, posted by eorl
01:27pm 02/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4404 posts
Hope your voting for this mob Trog

bullet-train-for-australia party

They got a huge range of policies,
I’m Tim Böhm the president of the Bullet Train for Australia Party, our party is a single issue party devoted to getting High Speed Rail for Australia.


Oh wait they've only got one
01:29pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6269 posts
and for the first time voters, or anyone for that matter, the Virgin Voters site may give you some information to help

Virgin voters just need to keep one thing in mind - most if not all political parties will do whatever, say whatever it takes to pop your cherry.
01:36pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2648 posts
^High maintenance costs (huge even for typical high speed rail) + low population + extreme distances means this will never, ever be profitable and will be hugely costly just for the starting infrastructure.

As someone involved with QR, I can tell you the amount of things that would go wrong with an Au high speed rail network is painful to even think about.
01:37pm 02/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4405 posts
there's a party for everyone

http://www.virginvoters.com.au/parties/
01:41pm 02/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1521 posts
Australia, you don't know how good you've got it

In Australia the stimulus helped avoid a recession and saved up to 200,000 jobs. And new research shows that stimulus may have also actually reduced government debt over time. Evidence from the crisis suggests that, when the economy is weak, the long-run tax revenue benefits of keeping businesses afloat and people in work can be greater than the short-run expenditure on stimulus measures. That means that a well-targeted fiscal stimulus might actually reduce public debt in the long run.
Proponents of austerity ignore the fact that national debt is only one side of a country's balance sheet. We have to look at assets - investments - as well as liabilities. Cutting back on high-return investments just to reduce the deficit is misguided. If we are concerned with long-run prosperity, then focusing on debt alone is particularly foolish because the higher growth resulting from these public investments will generate more tax revenue and help to improve the long-term fiscal position.


http://m.canberratimes.com.au/comment/australia-you-dont-know-how-good-youve-got-it-20130901-2sytb.html

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1231571_474949145935476_877637894_n.jpg
02:08pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Monkeez
Sydney, New South Wales
274 posts
I found the ad on the side pretty fitting for the Pirate Party page.

http://i44.tinypic.com/hwn9mu.jpg
02:17pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Alize`
Brisbane, Queensland
1761 posts
It's ironic because Danny Nalliah is Tamil Sri Lankan and most of the candidates are Sri Lankan too.


The RUA State candidates look like white old farmers apart from Danny.

I just took the ABC votecompass questionnaire because this time I honestly don't know who to vote for. Seems pretty accurate:
http://i.imgur.com/bxF3E1t.png
02:22pm 02/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4189 posts
libs "the budget data will be released with enough time that the people can make an informed choice"

this week, from the libs "our budget data will be released with all the details at the end of the week"

question is (from me) how much time is needed to know, and make an informed choice, and are they hiding something big hence why we've not heard
02:43pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8092 posts
You are in my electorate aren't you?

McEwan - I'm in Craigieburn.

libs "the budget data will be released with enough time that the people can make an informed choice"

this week, from the libs "our budget data will be released with all the details at the end of the week"

question is (from me) how much time is needed to know, and make an informed choice, and are they hiding something big hence why we've not heard

YSK that the Libs have said that while they'll release certain info on Wednesday, they have also said they won't release the backing information and breakdown. In other words, they are only preparing to release SOME information, but not supporting evidence and fact-checking, of their plans.

I've been a former Liberal supporter, and this to me just reeks.
02:48pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2234 posts
Simple enough, they're releasing their cost-cutting plans after the advertising blackout is in effect, to prevent retaliation. Oldest trick in the book.
02:49pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8093 posts
It's not just to prevent retaliation, it means that if it has massive, gaping holes in it; if it completely cuts some program that would be seen as hugely desirable; if it introduces funding for something completely objectionable - they can't point it out.

"$20b additional funding for education", News.com.au will report;
"For which $18b is for private, religious schools", Labour can't retaliate with.
03:00pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
998 posts
Not by ads, But if you think they won't be hosing down press conferences with that s*** you'd be wrong.
03:01pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14344 posts
Voted yesterday at the airport, you crazy b****** can't influence my vote anymore, spent my load early.
03:05pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7930 posts
Tony Abbott's promises don't seem to be numerically possible: http://www.theage.com.au/business/why-taxes-would-rise-under-abbott-20130901-2sytp.html
03:15pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36404 posts
ooooh, i should vote early before infi convinces me to change my vote too!
03:16pm 02/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4192 posts
ooooh, i should vote early before infi convinces me to change my vote too!



gate 38 and brissy airport

also, cnr of rode and gympie
03:18pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Sip
Brisbane, Queensland
586 posts
Pirate party for me, the only party that officially supports Beyond Zero Emissions Australia: http://pirateparty.org.au/wiki/Policies/Energy

I've glazed over the rest of their policies and haven't been hit with a 'bats***crazy' policy as of yet.
03:20pm 02/09/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
44 posts
Pirate party for me, the only party that officially supports Beyond Zero Emissions Australia: http://pirateparty.org.au/wiki/Policies/EnergyI've glazed over the rest of their policies and haven't been hit with a 'bats***crazy' policy as of yet.

Will we still be allowed to breathe?
03:23pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23259 posts
Pirate party for me, the only party that officially supports Beyond Zero Emissions Australia: http://pirateparty.org.au/wiki/Policies/Energy
They seem suspiciously lolbertarian to me and I can't find anything about public healthcare on their policy page.
03:25pm 02/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17397 posts
gate 38 and brissy airport

also, cnr of rode and gympie


or turbo drive, coorparoo
03:45pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14345 posts
Oh s***, from Nerf's link, Abbott is keeping the levy on savings accounts?

Really? Get the f*** out.
04:17pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
999 posts
Yeah he is also quietly keeping the increase of smoking taxes, while having a go at Labor for raising them.
04:21pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6270 posts
The levy on savings accounts is proposed at 0.05 per cent.
While the stated goal is dubious in that introducing the levy replaces the deposit guarantee from the GFC that we never needed, no-one will need to sell the rolls royce to cover it I'm sure.
04:28pm 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37290 posts
HOLY S*** at that bank account levy. Hey, which way is Switzerland?
04:31pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14346 posts
The levy on savings accounts is proposed at 0.05 per cent. While the stated goal is dubious in that introducing the levy replaces the deposit guarantee from the GFC that we never needed, no-one will need to sell the rolls royce to cover it I'm sure.

Its the vibe of the thing man. Savings are already taxed and I don't like the idea of the gubment sticking its hands in my account for any amount. This money is mine, f*** off. I don't have a million bucks, but I want to, and if I get a mill giving them 500 out of that (every year?) after paying so much other tax along the way would piss me off no end.

Getting rid of this stupid levy was one of my 'oh well there's some good things to come out of d***chin becoming PM' and now its GONE.

Edit: math is hard hurr durr
04:41pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3806 posts
It'd be amusing if the banks passed on the levy to customers. They're making billions a quarter, why won't they stop being greedy and absorb it?
I'll lose $5 a month from it, no big deal
04:45pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14347 posts
It'd be amusing if the banks passed on the levy to customers. They're making billions a quarter, why won't they stop being greedy and absorb it?I'll lose $5 a month from it, no big deal

You have ~100k in Vash cash? Aren't you a bum?!

Anyway, of course it will be passed on lol. "Absorbing it" is smoke and mirrors to hide who actually pays. Probably cover it in credit card fees.

Edit: turns out its 0.05 up to 250k accounts, so max is like $125 per year?. Just wind of it wiped billions off the market though lol.
04:48pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3807 posts
I've been working full time since i was 17, now 29, so ive had plenty of time to save.

I wish we had more media regulation so people would see Abbott for what he really is
04:58pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Sip
Brisbane, Queensland
587 posts
Will we still be allowed to breathe?


Nope you must die a horrible death. Also just think powering the entire of Australia from base-load renewable power, if you don't know what solar thermal with storage you really should read beyond zero emissions plan.

They seem suspiciously lolbertarian to me and I can't find anything about public healthcare on their policy page.


I guess they haven't developed it yet, also in what way are they "lolbertarian"?

Also this might be worth the watch, a mate filmed it.
04:59pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23260 posts
Sorry, I got them mixed up with the Wikileaks party. I only ctrl-f'ed through their wiki looking for healthcare and didn't find anything.

After actually reading through some of their stuff I think this is the party for me. Why can't we have a major party like this? :(

edit: seems no-one from that party is running in my electorate :(

edit: but I can still vote for them in the senate or something so yay I guess.
05:03pm 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37291 posts
Edit: turns out its 0.05 up to 250k accounts, so max is like $125 per year?. Just wind of it wiped billions off the market though lol.
as well it should! Remember when it was happening in Cyprus and we were all thinking "haha, thank goodness for the awesome strong Australian banks, such a ludicrous measure would never take place in Australia!"

infi, rally your Liberal pals and start putting pressure on them for that one!

Also, in Indooroopilly just now I saw some old f*** in a blue ute drive past a chick in a burqa and give her the finger as he drove around the corner. Who do I vote for to kick low life f***wits like this out of the country? I am embarrassed. Unfortunately by the time I realised what he was doing he was too far away for me to get his license plate.
05:10pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Sip
Brisbane, Queensland
588 posts
Ah fair call, yeah wiki-leaks comes second or third for preferences for me. The Labor/Lib go right at the bottom, f them both imo.
05:11pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10041 posts
Yeah he is also quietly keeping the increase of smoking taxes, while having a go at Labor for raising them.

Haha really? Good lord.
05:11pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14208 posts
Hay bro, I know we taxed your money when you earned it, and yeah I know we are taxing your money when you spend it. But you know what bro, we could do with a little more, so we are gunna tax it when you save it too.

O and for you strugglers earning $35,000 and trying your darned best to retire on what little you will have ... yeah we gunna tax that s*** too. Thanks guys.

05:14pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23262 posts
Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's?
05:21pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3808 posts
Yep we are a heavily taxed country. but give me that, over this situation that happened in the U.S :


"As happens to many Americans, when he lost his job, he lost his health insurance. He now owes $171,569.44 for the six nights he spent at the hospital."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/booming/for-laid-off-older-workers-age-bias-is-pervasive.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&


So glad to be Australian. And if those Coalition infi type loons had their way, private health would be a necessity, if you lost your job or found yourself in a bad way, from situations out of your control, f*** it, you deserve it!
05:22pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1000 posts
Maybe Google can make them some non-profit hospitals out of non-profit Google fiber.
05:26pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3809 posts

Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's?


Pretty much.
Also, NBN.
05:26pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14348 posts
Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's?

How the f*** could you forget about carbon tax and the stopping of boats?!
05:29pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23263 posts
Yes the NBN.

I have a feeling that the LNP will at some point abandon their plan and adopt Labor's but claim they can build it for less than the amount that they made up it would cost originally (90 billion dollars or something wasn't it?) Their current plan is just too stupid to be true. Surely anyone with even a high-school education would think it's a bad idea.

edit: didn't Rudd claim at some point he was going to ditch the carbon tax?

edit2: and aren't they both stopping the boats now? Just the LNP plan is a bit more over the top and stupid?
05:30pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3811 posts
Well they came up with buying the boats policy. They've just gone full crazy at this point.
05:31pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14349 posts
edit: didn't Rudd claim at some point he was going to ditch the carbon tax?

Carbon tax is transitioning to an ETS.

Also you forgot nice 6 month holidays for rich white ladies when they sprog.

It is astonishing that a clusterf*** of policy bad enough to make infi cringe on QGL is going to be voted in.
05:35pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Alize`
Brisbane, Queensland
1762 posts
I like what the pirate party has to say... hmmm...
05:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10042 posts
Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's?

NBN, buying boats, abolishing the carbon tax and million dollar babies. Only differences now and three of those are beyond ridiculous, just plain stupid.
05:41pm 02/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
447 posts
It'd be amusing if the banks passed on the levy to customers.


Of course they will, that's why Labor is taking the tax off the banks instead of directly from consumers. They know that any anger will be directed at banks and not Labor.

I wish we had more media regulation so people would see Abbott for what he really is


You want more media regulation because the media isn't reporting bad things about Tony Abbot? wow lol. I think you should vote for the Australian Communist Party.

Maybe Google can make them some non-profit hospitals out of non-profit Google fiber.


Hey! Google is a humanity company, they aren't interested in making profits! They are just interested in bettering humanity.
05:53pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3813 posts
The anger towards banks would be justified. Billions a quarter *profit* ? Get outta here. Lower your fees, c****.

The media is there to report facts, not opinions. And thats what majority of our journalism is becoming. Mostly opinion, driven by rich Murdoch types, their own agenda being forced upon the Australian public, manipulating the truth, hiding facts when it suits them.

I never said google wasn't interested in making profit. I'm saying that isn't their only motivation. They're no Apple / Microsoft. They have many programs that benefit people without profit being the pure motivator.
05:58pm 02/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4193 posts
Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's?



my brain is a little sore, fpot making sense, and i agree with it
06:09pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1001 posts
I never said google wasn't interested in making profit. I'm saying that isn't their only motivation. They're no Apple / Microsoft. They have many programs that benefit people without profit being the pure motivator.


So do Apple and Microsoft.

You said that Google fiber wasn't motivated by profit and that is why Google are sooo innovative. If you think a company with a market cap over $200b is in it for something other than profit you're seriously mis-guided. Google uses many of the same tax avoidance tactics that Apple and Microsoft do. If they paid their fair share of tax there wouldn't be as bigger need for their so called charity. Categorizing companies into good and evil is beyond moronic. Companies make a profit, sometimes people get hurt in the process sometimes they don't it's really that simple.

Speaking of people frothing, I don't really get the issue with buying of the boats. Spending a few billion on camps in PNG to get out of our UN Convention obligations strikes me as the froth worthy bit.
06:13pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
7292 posts
and since both of their foreign polices = suck america's d*** by any means necessary, personally I think another donkey vote is eminent, go straya!
06:17pm 02/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6499 posts
06:18pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14350 posts
Of course they will, that's why Labor is taking the tax off the banks instead of directly from consumers. They know that any anger will be directed at banks and not Labor.

You meant to say "Government" not "Labor", both parties are implementing this stupid idea.
06:18pm 02/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
2965 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: random gibberish
Send Private Message
06:20pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3814 posts
Apple is the most valuable company in the world, or was? They do nothing charitable of the sort. Their pure motivator is profit. Look at the margins on their devices. There's nothing special about them compared to the competition.
06:21pm 02/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18692 posts
Honest question - so does this mean that there is almost no difference between Labor and the LNP now except that the LNP's leader is literally a piece of s*** rather than just a bit of a douche like Labor's


pretty much, i'd be worried about abbott's budget information that he isn't announcing until no one can see it

oh and a terrible nbn plan from the same mob
06:21pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
5469 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: random gibberish
Send Private Message
06:23pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1002 posts
woops

Gees and you get down on abbott over goodies and badies.
06:24pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3815 posts
looks like tim is taking apple a different direction. this is good.
Steve jobs was indeed a d***
06:26pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1003 posts
Yes he was but notions of good and evil and motivation in the corporate world, are frankly quaint.

Google bought Motorola and Motorola made landmines which means that almost certainly Google has a patient somewhere in its library for landmines.

Motivation isn't profit. teehee.
06:30pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14351 posts
Only example I can think of for true altriusm is Bill Gates? His motivation is now completely altruistic, so a portion of cash rolling through the MS juggernaut (he still owns heaps of MS right?) is going to a genuinely good place.
Spending a few billion on camps in PNG to get out of our UN Convention obligations strikes me as the froth worthy bit.

The whole stop the boats thing (both sides) gives me a bobbly vein over my temple to be honest.
06:36pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23265 posts
This is based off almost literally nothing but some comments on SA I read indicated the there was a lot of self-interest involved in the Gates Foundation charity work. I meant to try and find out more but didn't bother because frankly I am quite willing to take the ignorance is bliss option for this kind of thing.
06:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14353 posts
Yeh I read a bit of that, kind of depressing if its just a front to gather more capital and (directly contrasting his statements) ensure passage of wealth.

We know for a fact that good work is being done though, kind of hard to claim you are vaccinating X number of people and instead roll around on a giant pile of coke and hookers.
06:49pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8094 posts
Gates has been open about it - he's very clearly stated that the foundation needs to operate as a self-sustaining business. That there's no point it just blowing through $400m which can't be replenished and then programs have to stop.
07:14pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14354 posts
Making news in the USA: Murdoch tells us how to vote
07:26pm 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37292 posts
Gates has been open about it - he's very clearly stated that the foundation needs to operate as a self-sustaining business. That there's no point it just blowing through $400m which can't be replenished and then programs have to stop.
yeh, the investment arm operates independently of the charitable works arm.
07:28pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14210 posts

His motivation is now completely altruistic


Pah! He gets a good feeling out of it at the least, therefore he is getting something out of it, making it not altruistic.
haha
07:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1522 posts
Yes he was but notions of good and evil and motivation in the corporate world, are frankly quaint.Google bought Motorola and Motorola made landmines which means that almost certainly Google has a patient somewhere in its library for landmines.Motivation isn't profit. teehee.


Patent


I see you did well at school under Howard.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1209389_475041742592883_226387505_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1002189_475029325927458_959451852_n.jpg
08:03pm 02/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1004 posts
God damn, you got me Jim.
08:09pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23266 posts
You could have just said you meant patient. You are still kind of right if you think about it (especially if google opened non-profit hospitals).
08:12pm 02/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37293 posts
Liberal digital economic policy launched today. Haven't had time to read in detail but the author seemed cautiously optimistic on Twitter.
08:16pm 02/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10663 posts
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/rudd-flags-single-mum-welfare-cut-reversal/story-e6frfku9-1226709015370

Too little too late.
The Messiahs powers have deserted him.
He'd better not try and walk on water.
08:33pm 02/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
218 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
09:10pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
84 posts
+1 for banning newsdotcomdotau links.. do it forum wide though.

Hitlers Germany is that way buddy. Man up can't ban the big bad world mate
09:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Monkeez
Sydney, New South Wales
276 posts
10:21pm 02/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23267 posts
Hitlers Germany is that way buddy. Man up can't ban the big bad world mate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
10:34pm 02/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6501 posts
Good news for the Labor party. After next Sunday they will be free from Rudd and be able to rebuild the praty.
10:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10665 posts
Wow Rudd gave a big smackdown to the Religious opposition to Gay Marriage.
Times are changing, I think Abbott is going to have to bend on this issue.
10:38pm 02/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6502 posts
^ lol bend over
10:41pm 02/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10044 posts
Yeah that was a brilliant move by Rudd in that he outlined the contradictions that the bible has and points to marriage equality as not the end of the world. This is actually really good, shame most newspapers won't run anything from it because it paints him too well.
10:43pm 02/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5998 posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

How is this straw man fallacy? I think it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum which is a valid form of argument.
10:44pm 02/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1523 posts
Yeah that was a brilliant move by Rudd in that he outlined the contradictions that the bible has and points to marriage equality as not the end of the world. This is actually really good, shame most newspapers won't run anything from it because it paints him too well.


Indeed, but lets deal with the facts of the bible;

Leviticus {11:10} And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you

Means you can't eat prawns, shellfish etc.

Leviticus {18:22} Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Meaning Homosexuality

Exodus {21:7} And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Meaning slavery of daughters.

Leviticus {11:7} And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. {11:8} Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Meaning don't eat or touch anything to do with pigs.


Of course then there are the classics like being stoned for planting different crops. Being burnt at the stake for wearing garments made of two different threads


RELIGION SHOULD NEVER EVER BE INCLUDED IN POLITICS
11:24pm 02/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10666 posts
This is going to be the big story tomorrow.

12:53am 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14355 posts
This is actually really good, shame most newspapers won't run anything from it because it paints him too well.

WTF IS GOING ON HERE
http://i.imgur.com/uem9SFp.png
06:55am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3070 posts
This is going to be the big story tomorrow.



This should hopefully, FINALLY put to rest this idea that he changed his mind due to get votes. I don't think anyone could be that passionate about something if it was a lie. Good on you Rudd!! Proud to be vote ALP in this election after Q&A last night, he was great. Yet, no Abbott to be seen.
06:58am 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14356 posts
This should hopefully, FINALLY put to rest this idea that he changed his mind due to get votes.

I don't get this argument.

Free thinkers will take his position on marriage equality as part of the whole of the ALP offerings (Unless they're gay of course). Aside from gay people or their very close friends, the issue is not a deal breaker - its a part of the melange of policy to consider.

Hardline Christians - who are legion - are as Pastor Porkchop says choosing sides based on the issue alone. Surely its cost him more votes than it gained? Rudd's stance is a lonely one imo.

I think he's just a little bit more engaged with the modern world and progressive social thinking.
07:04am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3071 posts
I don't get this argument.Free thinkers will take his position on marriage equality as part of the whole of the ALP offerings (Unless they're gay of course). Aside from gay people or their very close friends, the issue is not a deal breaker - its a part of the melange of policy to consider.Hardline Christians - who are legion - are as Pastor Porkchop says choosing sides based on the issue alone. Surely its cost him more votes than it gained? Rudd's stance is a lonely one imo.I think he's just a little bit more engaged with the modern world and progressive social thinking.


Exactly! One of the guys I worked with yesterday said "Your life isn't going to change regardless of who gets in" and I was like, you're f*****g joking right? I'm voting ALP for 3 reasons, 1) Same Sex Marriage, 2) Non-Gimped NBN and 3) I despise Abbott.

I know plenty of people, good people, who support same sex marriage, but won't vote for the ALP because they believe it's going to f*** our economy even more, and only the LNP can fix it. Personally (and obviously I'm biased), I think 3 years of a bit more of a f***ed economy (even though I disagree that the ALP will f*** things up) is worth getting rid of Abbott and allowing same sex marriage. Lasting freakin' social change man! Bring it the f*** on. Then we can start to talk about the really important things like Euthanasia!
07:16am 03/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2047 posts
http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/here-comes-a-victory-of-s***

I love VICE.

I'll be voting Secular Party most likely. Them or the Greens.
07:30am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8095 posts
From that link:
electorates with frustratingly low suicide rates.

bahaha, this is golden.
08:15am 03/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4406 posts
Apple is the most valuable company in the world, or was? They do nothing charitable of the sort.


they do so, they give us products that "just work"
08:27am 03/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2432 posts
The look on old matey pastor's face...awkward. You could almost smell the fire and brimstone boiling.

Good on you Kruddler. Everything else aside, at least he has the guts to say what he really believes on this issue, regardless of whether it costs him votes. I thought he handled that question with dignity and poise.

Light years ahead of Abbottabaddie on social issues and reform.


08:28am 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20447 posts
Wow Kevin was so passionate about gay marriage last night! Reminds me of when he was passionate for then against then for an ETS.

I expect he will change his mind soon enough. Good old Kevin Chameleon does it again. Glad you liked being fed that baloney Zapo.

Also remember how in 2007 he was an economic conservative, then in 2009 he was a democratic socialist, now in 2013 he's an economic nationalist. How can you honestly believed a word the guy says....
08:38am 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14358 posts
^ lol infi your tirades are getting tedious
08:48am 03/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4195 posts
pretty sure infi is a paid up (or fully donating) member of the LNP fan club,

after all, since clive left there has been a hole that needs to be filled
09:05am 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20448 posts
Did I say something untrue?
09:05am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3072 posts
Wow Kevin was so passionate about gay marriage last night! Reminds me of when he was passionate for then against then for an ETS.I expect he will change his mind soon enough. Good old Kevin Chameleon does it again. Glad you liked being fed that baloney Zapo.Also remember how in 2007 he was an economic conservative, then in 2009 he was a democratic socialist, now in 2013 he's an economic nationalist. How can you honestly believed a word the guy says....


If you don't believe what he says, then fine, it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to reason with you and change your view. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that he is the only PM to support same sex marriage. So I'll take whatever small mercy I can thanks.
09:06am 03/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2433 posts
09:08am 03/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4196 posts
infi, no matter the party, they all change, due to education or a change in thought.
or to get votes
09:13am 03/09/13 Permalink
pjano
62 posts
See now this is just stupid. It is offering facts, yes, but its just doing it in the weirdest and most out there way possible. Dramatic music, flashy effects and negative views is just pure slandering. Why not just offer them in a sensible way so you don't make your party look like children who've had their toy taken away from them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z5iywm1T2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zsY2H-HPs
09:34am 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20449 posts
Re Syria - Both David Cameron and Obama referred to the Syrian government and rebel groups as "baddies". Both sides are committing violent attrocities on Syrians and as such would fit the normal usage of the term "baddies". it is a succinct and accurate term. Only Kevin Rudd could further seek to complicate the situation via his "programmatic specificity".
09:47am 03/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37294 posts
infi, no matter the party, they all change, due to education or a change in thought.or to get votes
So the important thing to look at is not what they're saying or how passionately they're saying it - it's what they've said in the past vs what they've done in the past.
09:50am 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14359 posts
Did I say something untrue?

I have no idea, you took a tangent about marriage equality and ranted about a whole lot of other s***. Do you agree with what he said or not?!

It seems to me like your own party is letting you down in both policy and social vision so all you have left is to scream F*** YOU LABOR as a response to every topic until you are red in the face.
09:51am 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20450 posts
So the important thing to look at is not what they're saying or how passionately they're saying it - it's what they've said in the past vs what they've done in the past.


Tony Abbott has been quoted a long time ago as saying climate change is "absolute crap". Now he has recanted that position and I recall seeing him as recently as this Sunday on Insiders say that he fully accepts that man made climate change exists (*cough*) and that the Australian government needs to take action against climate change.

I don't see any of our social progressives here giving him bouqets over that statement - it seems they dismiss it.

I have no idea, you took a tangent about marriage equality and ranted about a whole lot of other s***. Do you agree with what he said or not?!


My point is that Kevin would lock his own grandmother up in the dunny to draw her pension. He has no scruples, he would say or do anything required to win votes. I doubt he gave one s*** about gay marriage until the focus groups said he get 3% extra in 18-25 voter group. That is reason why I made those references above to his record positions on the ETS and his recorded positions on economic preference. He just says whatever is the hot buzzword for the week.
09:54am 03/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2236 posts
Can't quite grasp why, as an elected MP in the sitting party in office, it has taken him this long to make a statement about the issue.

Last I knew, Marriage Equality was still an issue in 2007, and pre-Julia 2010. Why now? It's not something that should be politicised. It's also not something that should be voted on (conscience or otherwise).

It's something that should just be DONE. Finished.
10:01am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8096 posts
I'm watching Q&A now - a show which I ordinarily never watch but was eager to see a Pastor get reamed, and I have just one question:

Who the hell is the wanker of a moderator? Could he be any more biased and anti-Labour/pro-Liberal?
10:03am 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7932 posts
The thing that I don't get about Kevin's speech, is why does it even matter if homosexuality is a choice? There's still no argument against people who do it which doesn't cite invisible magic creatures with absolutely no evidence to back them up - if we accept those arguments, then we'd have to also accept arguments from the guy who says that he's in contact with aliens, we'd have to accept what islamic imams say that we should do about cutting our facial hair, we'd have to accept that we need to immediately build a 5 trillion dollar asteroid defence system because some guy who has psychic powers knows that one is coming in 2019, etc, there's no way to explain away the special pleading on arguments citing sources equally lacking in evidence.

pretty sure infi is a paid up (or fully donating) member of the LNP fan club,

He's actually quite a high ranking member of the Qld liberal party afaik. Which has turned me off the liberals for a good while, who I've previously voted for, knowing that they set their standards so low as to take that level of frothing incoherent partisan idiocy.
10:04am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8097 posts
Ugh, so I just got to the question on marriage equality, but sadly he seems to believe the bulls*** that you're "born" gay. Anyone who's done even any basic level of psychology understands it's nurture, not nature, and to write someone off as being gay because they were "born that way" just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human interpersonal development and world view.

Either way doesn't make it any more right or wrong, but to try to say it's an affliction someone's born with - and for this to come from a politician, showing a massive failure to understand such a basic concept, is rather disturbing.

No doubt, however, Tony Abbotts view would be even more warped and degenerate.
10:11am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3073 posts
Who the hell is the wanker of a moderator? Could he be any more biased and anti-Labour/pro-Liberal?


Tony Jones? Tony Jones is the freakin' boss, he's not anti ALP, I find he to be quite balanced, but he's there to push for answers to the questions being asked instead of accepting the usual BS spin in politics. I think he does a great job. As Rudd was the only person on the panel it may have seen like he wasn't balanced, but I assure you in the many many episodes I watch he is, and does a great job.
10:12am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3074 posts
Ugh, so I just got to the question on marriage equality, but sadly he seems to believe the bulls*** that you're "born" gay. Anyone who's done even any basic level of psychology understands it's nurture, not nature, and to write someone off as being gay because they were "born that way" just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human interpersonal development and world view.

No doubt, however, Tony Abbotts view would be even more warped and degenerate.


I don't think the science is totally clear, but I thought I read something that said sexuality was determined by the age of 3? I think the point he was trying to make was that it's clearly not a DECISION. People don't wake up and say "Geez, I think I'm going to be a ragin' homo". It's not a conscious choice. Given that then ...blah blah, rest of his speech.
10:15am 03/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37295 posts
As Nerfy says, who cares? Are we free to make our own choices and do what we want when it's not harming anyone else?
Can't quite grasp why, as an elected MP in the sitting party in office, it has taken him this long to make a statement about the issue.
Indeed. The fact that both major parties equivocate so much on the issue should rule them out entirely if you care about it.
10:22am 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20451 posts
As Nerfy says, who cares? Are we free to make our own choices and do what we want when it's not harming anyone else?


quite right, but why does Rudd get all this street cred for having a sudden epiphany on the eve of an election, when Abbott already had a similar reversal of attitude in relation to climate change, yet is still branded a climate change denier?
10:26am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8098 posts
I don't think the science is totally clear, but I thought I read something that said sexuality was determined by the age of 3? I think the point he was trying to make was that it's clearly not a DECISION. People don't wake up and say "Geez, I think I'm going to be a ragin' homo". It's not a conscious choice. Given that then ...blah blah, rest of his speech.

Yes, but that is the very definition of the difference between nature (what you're *born* with) and nurture (how your environment shapes who you become).

It's like claiming a child is born Christian - no, they're not, they're just fed bulls*** and placed in a magical fairy world and made to believe because they're not presented with alternatives before they're taught to rationalise.

Autism is Nature, Cystic Fibrosis is nature. Sexuality is most certainly not, and is no more a 'choice' than whether or not someone has sociopathic tendencies.
Has anyone thought to ask Tony Abbott if he was born a sociopath or chose to be one? :) Because that's basically the equivalent to someone being 'born' gay versus 'choosing' to be gay - versus the reality of that's just the way they've been raised to appreciate and accept elements of the world.
10:27am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3075 posts
quite right, but why does Rudd get all this street cred for having a sudden epiphany on the eve of an election, when Abbott already had a similar reversal of attitude in relation to climate change, yet is still branded a climate change denier?


Rudd actually changed his view several months ago, and made it clear publicly prior to being leader of the ALP again. You're obviously so cynical you can't see that it was a legitimate change, so why even continue to argue? After last night if you still doubt his sincerity then you're unlikely to EVER change your view.

Raven, I understand what you're saying about nature VS nurture, I think it 'may' be a bit of both, but I don't know - I also thought the 'science' was still out on this one? My point is though it's not really relevant to what Rudd was saying. His point was it's not a choice, so why would you legislate difference and treat people differently for something they have no control over?

PS - before someone says "sociopaths have no control over their actions too, so why do we legistlate against violence and murder. Well, you're a f***tard for making that point.
10:33am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8099 posts
Raven, I understand what you're saying about nature VS nurture, I think it 'may' be a bit of both, but I don't know - I also thought the 'science' was still out on this one? My point is though it's not really relevant to what Rudd was saying. His point was it's not a choice, so why would you legislate difference and treat people differently for something they have no control over?


The science is out on this one in the same way there's still scientific disagreement on whether or not climate change is influenced by the actions of man. In other words: 'Science' isn't immune to political, religious and financial agendas.
10:38am 03/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3076 posts
I'm not disagreeing with you because I don't want to believe you, I'm just curious to see some evidence, I'm completely open to it either way - I just didn't think there was something conclusive. Do you have anything to point to I could read?
10:39am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8100 posts
PS - before someone says "sociopaths have no control over their actions too, so why do we legistlate against violence and murder. Well, you're a f***tard for making that point.

On this by the way, while sociopaths might be unable to control how they internalise it, they certainly can control what they externalise. The externalisation is what we legislate on, we don't have thought crimes in Australia. You can be alllll the racist you want, just don't say it - etc. Doesn't apply if you're Christian though, they get an exemption.
10:43am 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7933 posts
quite right, but why does Rudd get all this street cred for having a sudden epiphany on the eve of an election, when Abbott already had a similar reversal of attitude in relation to climate change, yet is still branded a climate change denier?

Can you link to what you're talking about?

Policy announcements would be needed to take Abbott seriously on that when he's made such promises in the past, then bent over backwards to and encouraged the anti-science crowd (promising to fire the climate scientists currently employed by government to communicate the issue to the public, mockingly referring to attempts at dealing with carbon as dealing with something 'invisible' (like radiation and oxygen and wifi and silly "science" things I guess), aligning himself strongly with the anti-science crowd such as Rinehart and the papers publishing the works of nonsense-spewers like Andrew Bolt, even challenging Turnbull over leadership on the issue.

he science is out on this one in the same way there's still scientific disagreement on whether or not climate change is influenced by the actions of man.

There is less scientific disagreement on that than most anything in science. Much less than there is on evolution, and any sane person can recognise how appalling the position of the creationists is and the quality disparity in the 'scientists' who they cling onto.
10:46am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8101 posts
I'm not disagreeing with you because I don't want to believe you, I'm just curious to see some evidence, I'm completely open to it either way - I just didn't think there was something conclusive. Do you have anything to point to I could read?

Evidence? No. This would be the result of massive genetic testing - which, frankly, would be pretty fricking easy to find considering the number of people afflicted with this horrible, horrible illness that's destroying society.

Seriously, if it were genetic or nature, there would be a gene, and it would so bloody commonly identifiable that with current technology, you'd likely find it inside a week of testing.

I can't prove it doesn't exist in the same way I can't prove god doesn't exist.

Edit: Furthermore, if a gene for it could be found, you can guarantee the Christian community would be all over that in an instant. They would be practically legislation for the testing of unborn foetuses and for those showing the gene to be abort.... oh.

last edited by Raven at 10:51:50 03/Sep/13
10:47am 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7934 posts
Found the Abbott talk - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-01/tony-abbott-joins-insiders/4927470 , he seems to still be pushing what Turnbull said was rubbish, and playing up the anti science talk, and the false 'tax' (which is refunded) talk.
10:56am 03/09/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2664 posts
At the end of the day, why someone is gay isn't really important (unless your afraid of catching homoitis)... What is important is how people who are homosexuals are treated and recognised.

What we do know is homosexuality isn't a disease you can catch and that we hae no reason to be affraid of someone because they are a homosexual, Personally I believe that the GLBT community is compromised of a mix of people who are born the way they are, people who choose to be the way they are, and people who have been nurtured or conditioned to be who they are.

How Kevin Rudd came to his conscious christian decision to accept homosexuality is a mute point for me, I was proud as hell when he made his statement on live television last night, whether he gets elected or not, that moment right then and there was a step in the right direction for us as a country. Not just for the GLBT community, but for the over all community, you had a public figure in one of the highest positions in this country tell the whole nation that the bible doesn't need to be followed so closely... That alone was amazing.
11:05am 03/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
449 posts
Rofl Rudd is so desperate now for votes, he's just chopping and changing every 2 seconds on pretty much everything. Their must be panic at Labor HQ. I picture it like a scene from the movie "downfall"(about the last days of the Third Reich) where they are throwing papers out of the window to burn

My point is that Kevin would lock his own grandmother up in the dunny to draw her pension.


LMFAO.
11:18am 03/09/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2665 posts
If your looking for praise on how witty your Rudd bashing is, I suggest you go post it on any number of anti-labor news articles posted on newsdotcomdotau
11:20am 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14360 posts
I have trouble reconciling apparent genuine concern with climate change and the pamphlet's Direct Action plan.

Yes the carbon tax (and the ETS) make lots of s*** more expensive, that's the entire f*****g point. Malcolm is a true believer in climate change, he supported an ETS before the Coalition's business-first mindset f***ed him over brutally.

Direct action is not a solution because it does nothing to make cheap, dirty fuels properly signal their true cost to consumers and business. Tony's plan does not reconcile with a true committment that means the hard yards for citizens currently gorging on cheap fossil fuels. Making fossil fuels more expensive is a hard sell, but its the sort of thing you do if you think this is a serious and urgent problem. Tony's solution seems to be that we can have cheap fossil fuels and reduce broadscale emissions in a short time frame which is 100% complete f*****g bulls***, there is no easy path out of this one.

Meanwhile, Kevin's conversion cost him votes and he is offering a conscience vote on the issue - something no other PM in the country's history has.
11:25am 03/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1079 posts
Hopefully the senate blocks all of Tony's dumb moves.
11:33am 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7935 posts
The thing about the ETS is that it refunds most of the money for the time being, so it's more about making the carbon heavy options more expensive than the alternatives, but without the consumer necessarily losing out yet. I thought that it was pretty clever, not that I expect perfect rebalancing. That being said, I don't think (from a personal experience guess, have no idea about the numbers) that consumers respond rationally to different pricing options, or even know of them.
11:42am 03/09/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8265 posts
I won't suggest someone to vote for but I will suggest that if you do not like all this over the top election advertising and think it is a waste of money then don't put a major party first.

Your first preference is how they divide up the election spoils. So by voting 1st for a major party you are sending your tax dollars their way.

Your 1st preference is worth approximately $2.50 this time around. It's worth a lot more to the little guys and with them it is much less likely to end up interrupting your media.

If you vote for a candidate that doesn't get 4% of the vote, then no one gets your $2.50 (I think)
11:47am 03/09/13 Permalink
Mordecai
Victoria
1587 posts
Just found out on of the independent candidates in my area (McMillan) has this as one of his policies:

He suggests anyone arriving by boat should be flown home and the boats kept here so they can’t be re-used.


Because the one thing you want when you are running away from a place that is dangerous for you, is to go back there.
11:50am 03/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8102 posts
Indeed, so absolutely do vote for the small parties, but don't just vote for some random small party just out of protest. Really, really think about what party has policies you can most support.

If you absolutely feel you have to contribute to the Labour vs Liberal war, then do so, but do it after all your other preferences. For me, I'll have at least half a dozen candidates selected before I even get to ALP/LIB in the senate, including SPA and DEM.
12:04pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23268 posts
when Abbott already had a similar reversal of attitude in relation to climate change, yet is still branded a climate change denier?
I guess it is a bit of a hangover from the time he was, you know, a climate change denier. Now that whoever tells him what to say said stop being one calls of it will probably die off.

The thing is though that not being a climate change denier isn't a thing that should be praised. It is a bare minimum requirement to not being insane.
12:11pm 03/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
450 posts
The level of butthurtness is growing from die hard Labor supporters as the election gets closer. You will just have to accept that people want a competent government and leader. suck it up.

I am planning on going to pre-polling today, i simply can't wait to vote for the Liberal Party.
01:20pm 03/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6214 posts
01:23pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6271 posts
Direct action is not a solution because it does nothing to make cheap, dirty fuels properly signal their true cost to consumers and business. Tony's plan does not reconcile with a true committment that means the hard yards for citizens currently gorging on cheap fossil fuels.


The man himself has just admitted that direct action might not even achieve the policy outcome of 5% reduction by 2020, and if it doesn't the difference will get thrown in the too hard basket: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbott-willing-to-break-emissions-pledge-over-funding-hole-20130902-2t0fh.html


He suggests anyone arriving by boat should be flown home and the boats kept here so they can’t be re-used.
Because the one thing you want when you are running away from a place that is dangerous for you, is to go back there.


Heh, to me it's more amusing that the policy seems built on the assumption there's a shortage of leaky fishing boats in Indonesia.
01:28pm 03/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10667 posts
Nerfy, Global Warming is finished in Australia.
just Let it go.
01:58pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7936 posts
The conspiracy nuts convincing the uninformed populace that the science is in dispute doesn't make it stop happening. The problem is still there.
02:04pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Sip
Brisbane, Queensland
589 posts
Two party system, did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

02:54pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14361 posts
I like the bit where everyone is pretty much just ignoring SheerObesity now.

Well played all.
03:15pm 03/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10668 posts
Palmer United Party is polling equal with the Greens at 8%
Ahead of the Katter Party
Nielsen Poll

Labor at 31% primary vote WOW !




03:23pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3816 posts
He needs to be abit more subtle with his trolling to get a reply for that one.

And on another note:



Was Julia Gillard the most productive prime minister in Australia's history?

We measure the legislative output of all of Australia's governments and prime ministers

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/australia-productive-prime-minister
03:25pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10054 posts
The man himself has just admitted that direct action might not even achieve the policy outcome of 5% reduction by 2020, and if it doesn't the difference will get thrown in the too hard basket: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbott-willing-to-break-emissions-pledge-over-funding-hole-20130902-2t0fh.html
And so it begins with the historical "scrap all the stuff I pledged" Liberal plan. This gives me a slight confidence that they may just go Labor's NBN if it proves to be too far locked in/not worth scrapping.
03:35pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7937 posts
Apparently protests outside of newscorp over the propaganda for their ex-employee tony abbott.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTM9UKiCEAEHWp1.jpg:large
04:21pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23269 posts
hehe, smelegraph.
04:23pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6652 posts
yes it's a newsdotcomdotau article but so be it. Simplest layout i've seen showing the differences for each major party.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/federal-election-promises-cuts-and-what-they-mean-for-you/story-fnho52qo-1226709750378
04:27pm 03/09/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5336 posts
Here comes a victory of s***.

It's over the top, but does accurately portray the doom.
04:31pm 03/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37297 posts
Here comes a victory of s***.

It's over the top, but does accurately portray the doom.
ahahah, the first paragraph made me laugh:
Rest assured, if the polls hold and Tony Abbott wins this election, he will be carried to a Victory of S*** on the shoulders of dingbats and dogf*****s in electorates with frustratingly low suicide rates.
04:34pm 03/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
451 posts
Apparently protests outside of newscorp over the propaganda for their ex-employee tony abbott.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTM9UKiCEAEHWp1.jpg:large


Wow the level of butthurt is off the rails. They are actually protesting a newspaper because they have been reporting about how bad our government is. That's the most pathetic thing i have ever seen.

No protests in 2007 though. IT'S ALL A "MURDOCH" CONSPIRACY I TELLS YA.

It's ok everyone, 3 more days until Labor is out and all the "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" herp derpers go back to their caves.


http://i.imgur.com/I3brQal.jpg:large

A little nastoligia for you all.

AFTER backing John Howard and the Coalition at every federal election since 1998, The Daily Telegraph will tomorrow recommend a vote for Kevin Rudd and Labor.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/daily-telegraph-backs-rudd/story-e6freuy9-1111114939113

Was that biased?
04:43pm 03/09/13 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
4018 posts
Im a election / politics etc noob as i DGAF and have always donkey voted.

I do enjoy watching the political ads though. Not sure why, probably because they are about the only ads that pay out something during their ad.

Anyway, watching the palmer party ads and the dude seems to have some fancy ideas that sounded awesome to a noob like me. So while it wont change the way i vote, are his ideas really ground breaking as labor / liberal ads seem to be about the standard s*** like jobs, boat people, carbon tax etc.
04:45pm 03/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17401 posts
if you DGAF you should informally vote instead of donkey voting.
04:51pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14362 posts
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/daily-telegraph-backs-rudd/story-e6freuy9-1111114939113Was that biased?

Yes it was, and it's really s***. It was in his (Murdoch's) favour for some reason IIRC to stop supporting Johnny and the sword fell. I was less politically aware at the time so it didn't hit my radar especially.

Anyway, after a few years of Rudd implementing policies that he doesn't agree with, he's switched sides and using his media empire to swing another election. This time they pulled out all the stops after Ruddy made a race of it reclaiming the throne from Gillard. They flew in a US ballbreaker to assert 'editorial leadership'.

Now the election pendulum swung back and Coalition victory (AKA the death of the NBN) is nice and safe, the silly headlines have died off and Rudd's Q&A performance last night actually got a fair go on news.com.au ... because it likely no longer matters.

If you're really and truly OK with all this because its in your team's favour this time then you're a f*****g imbecile.
05:04pm 03/09/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3269 posts
This gives me a slight confidence that they may just go Labor's NBN if it proves to be too far locked in/not worth scrapping.
The NBN doesn't stand a chance under a Murdoch government.


Sorry I meant Abbott, an Abbott Government.
05:14pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Ha
245 posts
i keep waiting for someone to admit that posting thousands of posts about australian politics was an elaborate troll and then everyone else says the same thing and we all have a good laugh about people unironically posting about australian politics but it isn't happening

if you don't make your own box and write hitler than cross it and go home you are voting wrong
05:36pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6272 posts
Apparently protests outside of newscorp over the propaganda for their ex-employee tony abbott.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTM9UKiCEAEHWp1.jpg:large


It looks like there might be a discount rent-a-crowd rate available if you pick Yes at "Grumpy old men in hats OK? [Y/N]" on the application form.
05:40pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23270 posts
This is just some of the stupidity we have to look forward to in the next few years.

''[Asylum seekers are] a hot topic here because our traffic is overcrowded,'' Fiona Scott, the Liberal candidate for the seat of Lindsay told the ABC's Four Corners program.

When asked to explain her view she said: ''Go sit on the M4, people see 50,000 people come in by boat - that's more than twice the population of [western Sydney suburb] Glenmore Park,'' she said.
06:05pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2451 posts
I love how that is you wound the clock back 10-15 years, all us nerds wanted was going to LANs, downloading pron and playing some CS.

Now that we are all middle aged men games take a backseat role on this forum and politics takes centre stage.
06:20pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20452 posts
ABC's Vote Compass has seen the gap between Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd grow by a half point out of a score of 10 across every demographic. What's even worse, the gap between Kevin and Tony is largest in his home state of Queensland where Abbott lead's Rudd by a full point.

These results correlate with every poll conducted by ever major polling outlet in Australia AND every major betting house in Australia.

But I am pretty sure it is just still News.com.au media bias, completely owner driven and in no way a reflection of voter sentiments. ;)
06:26pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14363 posts
But I am pretty sure it is just still News.com.au media bias, completely owner driven and in no way a reflection of voter sentiments. ;)

You're confused, lol

The idea is that Murdoch's endless media assault is driving opinion - which should in fact be supported by polling.
06:38pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23271 posts
ABC's Vote Compass has seen the gap between Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd grow by a half point out of a score of 10 across every demographic. What's even worse, the gap between Kevin and Tony is largest in his home state of Queensland where Abbott lead's Rudd by a full point.

These results correlate with every poll conducted by ever major polling outlet in Australia AND every major betting house in Australia.

But I am pretty sure it is just still News.com.au media bias, completely owner driven and in no way a reflection of voter sentiments. ;)
wow, that smug little winky face at the end just made it extra hilarious.
06:43pm 03/09/13 Permalink
pjano
63 posts
them feels when nobody comments on the videos I posted. Now I know what it's like to be Hurricane Jim :(
06:48pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20453 posts
So are you seriously suggesting that the scathing editorial from both the Murdoch and Fairfax press are what will cause Labor to lose?

I am waiting for HurricaneJim's twice daily copy pasting from that Labor Facebook group he follows.
06:49pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23272 posts
No, and no-one in the thread has even hinted at suggesting that you dolt.
06:50pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20454 posts
The idea is that Murdoch's endless media assault is driving opinion - which should in fact be supported by polling.


Hrng I just read that above so I think some are suggesting it by the very fact it was. 2 posts above.

Pjano, political videos are a dime a dozen. Say something witty, funny, or a great discovered quote. Preferably all at the same time.
06:53pm 03/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5999 posts
Anyone else thought it was hilarious that Abbot was proud of his 4/10 score in trust?

Holy f***, our choices are between two tards we don't even trust. What a s*** state of affairs.
07:03pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20456 posts
What kind of scores do you honestly expect politicians to attract? They're politicians.
07:10pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23273 posts
Hrng I just read that above so I think some are suggesting it by the very fact it was. 2 posts above.
Hoggy was suggesting that a bias media has the potential to drive opinion, not that the bias media is the sole reason for Labor losing. Dude, you are failing to comprehend simple sentences. Are you feeling okay?
07:13pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20457 posts
So this left-wing outrage about Murdoch newspapers and bias is all because it DOESN't have the potential to influence voters?
07:16pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3390 posts
Keep providing the LOLS. Election this weekend and i can't wait to wipe that smug look off the milky bar kids face.
07:24pm 03/09/13 Permalink
pjano
21 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
07:24pm 03/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37299 posts
So this left-wing outrage about Murdoch newspapers and bias is all because it DOESN't have the potential to influence voters?
I think it might have something to do with them using their vast media empire to push their particular political agenda into the faces of the unwashed masses whose critical thinking skills are on par with, say, forum users who use circular reasoning and arguments to try to avoid acknowledging obvious facts about their religiously held political beliefs
07:27pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23274 posts
I was hoping that we had reached the point between primordial sludge and starchilds where an obvious media bias by such a powerful entity would be an everyone outrage rather than just a left-wing outrage. I guess not.
07:34pm 03/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1524 posts
07:35pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10056 posts
The NBN doesn't stand a chance under a Murdoch government. Sorry I meant Abbott, an Abbott Government.

I wish you were wrong...
07:40pm 03/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20458 posts
I think it might have something to do with them using their vast media empire to push their particular political agenda into the faces of the unwashed masses


So the Murdoch media (but not the Fairfax media who also have published critical editorial against Rudd and Labor) is able to influence public opinion and push a particular political agenda BUT NOT affect the outcome of the election?

Am I getting close yet?

I am calling BS. In terms of access to readers and viewers newspapers are one cog in the machine. Newspapers compete against radio, TV and social media - and most importantly word of mouth. Yet it's Murdoch's newspapers which are the evil entities. What about Murdoch to his Twitter account critical of Rudd? Is this media bias too?

And why is it not media bias if Fairfax criticises, and why was it not media bias in 2007 when News Corp backed Rudd. Why are these double standards acceptable at other times but not when Abbott is about to be elected?

It seems like more whining from the Abbott-hating Brigade indignant that so many respected institutions could all be conspiring to elect this "religious nut".
07:43pm 03/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23275 posts
If by close you mean close to moving the goalposts in the correct position so that your latest question
So the Murdoch media (but not the Fairfax media who also have published critical editorial against Rudd and Labor) is able to influence public opinion and push a particular political agenda BUT NOT affect the outcome of the election?
In any way matches your first
So are you seriously suggesting that the scathing editorial from both the Murdoch and Fairfax press are what will cause Labor to lose?
I'd say, no.
07:51pm 03/09/13 Permalink
pjano
65 posts
The NBN doesn't stand a chance under a Murdoch government.Sorry I meant Abbott, an Abbott Government.


I guess by this standard the 07-10 government was a Murdoch government too
08:07pm 03/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10669 posts
I don't understand that Murdoch hatred.

Your anger should be directed at the performance of the ALP.
They have sacked two sitting Prime Ministers and you don't think there is something wrong with the Party ?

Voted for Rudd got Gillard
Voted for Gillard got Rudd
That is Humiliating for our Democracy.

That was Your Government that they defiled, twice.
Labor deserves the savaging it has received.
Blame Murdoch ?
Blame Labor !


08:43pm 03/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1525 posts
Just when the Murdoch press is being vilified they finally put it all together and show Labor > LNP

Federal Election promises, cuts and what they mean for you

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/federal-election-promises-cuts-and-what-they-mean-for-you/story-fnho52qo-1226709750378#ixzz2dpQ0blrU
09:32pm 03/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
452 posts
I'm alway suprising;'Vote Liberal bribe': Sydney company referred to AECRead more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/vote-liberal-bribe-sydney-company-referred-to-aec-20130903-2t2b5.html#ixzz2dowm0klK


It just goes to show how much businesses are suffering that they need to bribe people to vote Liberals so they stop being choked to death.
09:40pm 03/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6001 posts
What kind of scores do you honestly expect politicians to attract? They're politicians.

That's the problem! Why can't politicians be trustworthy?
It just goes to show how much businesses are suffering that they need to bribe people to vote Liberals so they stop being choked to death.
Hahahaha, if you have money to bribe then you're not choking to death.
10:02pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3817 posts

I don't understand that Murdoch hatred.

Your anger should be directed at the performance of the ALP.
They have sacked two sitting Prime Ministers and you don't think there is something wrong with the Party ?

Voted for Rudd got Gillard
Voted for Gillard got Rudd
That is Humiliating for our Democracy.

That was Your Government that they defiled, twice.
Labor deserves the savaging it has received.
Blame Murdoch ?
Blame Labor !


Why do you think they ousted their leader? Simply from the polls. They were performing excellent. The people didnt like them for whatever reason, and the media played on this.

The party's leadership changes had zero effect on my vote, i only look at policy, their attitude, how progressive they are towards making Australia more modern and able to be a strong country into the future.
Labor is that party for me.
10:30pm 03/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10671 posts
Im sure many Germans felt the same way about the Nazi Party.
Hitler made sure he couldn't be sacked too.
10:43pm 03/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1526 posts
Im sure many Germans felt the same way about the Nazi Party.
Hitler made sure he couldn't be sacked too.


Hitler was never elected he was appointed by Hindenburg after a hung Reichstag.

Hitler never made sure he couldn't be sacked, it was Hindenburg (again) who issued the Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat (Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State). It was only the Reich President who could issue such a decree. Of course the Nazis took advantage of it (possibly even starting the Reichstag fire) and the rest is history.

Thank you Faceman for proving that your facts are only opinions based on no real research.
11:11pm 03/09/13 Permalink
funky
Canada
1807 posts
haha, i read that policy article on news.com.au, and the only things that affect me are 'if you use the internet',and 'if you have private healthcare' (not that any of this currently applies to me as I am living out of the country, and the changes to private health are family related anyway)

lucky for me i've voted already at the consulate before viewing this article anyway, hahah
11:36pm 03/09/13 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
7294 posts
So on one hand we have abott who thinks the Syria crisis is baddies against baddies and on the other hand krud is both a staunch supporter of gay marriage AND has a massif boner for jews?

Voting for Uncle Sam is looking good right about now!

12:10am 04/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10672 posts
I didn't say Hitler was elected.

I said Hitler made sure he couldn't be sacked.

The Nazi Party promised a lot to downbeaten Germans but their own incompetence and a megalomaniac leader sent the party spiralling out of control.
Bit like Labor under Rudd.
12:47am 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7938 posts
on the other hand krud is both a staunch supporter of gay marriage

That you try to list this as a negative just shows that your religious indoctrination has done you a disservice towards yourself and others. :(
03:10am 04/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6215 posts
Hahaha, go uncle sam!
07:13am 04/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1005 posts
Turnbull's Digital Economy policy document was a good read in the end.

Seems well thought out with a decent amount of evidence to back the position.

In fact, if the data referenced by the 2013 NDES update is correct, the key impediment to
increased access to telework is the Government’s own work practices, given only 4 per
cent of Australian Public Service staff utilise it.


From the case study toward the end the document. The general premise that either NBN and teleworking and all the rest or no NBN and no teleworking, seems to be a bit of a false dichotomy, which I must say I agree with.
08:00am 04/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6503 posts
So on one hand we have abott who thinks the Syria crisis is baddies against baddies and on the other hand krud is both a staunch supporter of gay marriage AND has a massif boner for jews?


Dude, let it go. You live in Australia now.
08:13am 04/09/13 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
7295 posts
Dude, let it go. You live in Australia now.
yeah and cucumbers are green in colour, what's your point. (not that I really care for your point, hence the lack of a question mark).
08:34am 04/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37303 posts
yeah and cucumbers are green in colour, what's your point. (not that I really care for your point, hence the lack of a question mark).
the point is when you use the word "jews" in a sentence like that you unfortunately look like a bit of a stereotypical racist douchebag. Don't worry though, you'll fit right in with the rest of them.
09:05am 04/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1080 posts
Nation building is a terrible idea and we should do nothing but spend more money on middle class welfare.

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_makes_households_year_better_3bINVyDMasl4AOuEYlPOWK


The average household would be $3800 a year better off by the end of this decade due to lifestyle changes enabled by the National Broadband Network, including more people working and shopping from home, a new study has found.

The study by Deloitte Access Economics will be pushed heavily by the Labor government in the dying days of the election campaign, with the claim that Tony Abbott’s cheaper and technologically inferior broadband alternative will be nowhere near as beneficial.

“Tony Abbott will cut the NBN, denying millions of Australians access to the boundless educational health, lifestyle and commercial opportunities this infrastructure delivers,” Communications Minister Anthony Albanese said.

The study finds the $3800, which is in today’s dollars, would come about largely because people would stay at home more rather than go out to work, shop or even see a doctor.

The saving comprises $2000 per household in cheaper prices and higher wages due to a productivity boost to the economy worth $16 billion by 2020.

Another $634 would be saved per household through the increased use of teleconferencing and telework, meaning reduced travel for workers.

The report says the level of so-called telework would jump by 6 percentage points to 12 per cent by 2020.
09:30am 04/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37305 posts
The study finds the $3800, which is in today’s dollars, would come about largely because people would stay at home more rather than go out to work, shop or even see a doctor.

The saving comprises $2000 per household in cheaper prices and higher wages due to a productivity boost to the economy worth $16 billion by 2020.
Don't economists usually say that in order to strengthen the economy, you actually WANT people to go out spending money? There was an article the other day about how the stimulus saved us because it kept people spending.

They need to stop doing all this bulls*** and just say it's a forward looking infrastructure project and who f*****g knows what is going to happen with it.
09:56am 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7939 posts
I think that they were saying that spending would continue, but inefficient spending (e.g. on transport when unnecessary with online shopping) might be reduced, presumably then moved into something else since now people are "saving" it.

I don't see the NBN necessarily changing much about online shopping, unless they come up with high bandwidth showcases or something (which, maybe with HTML5 could be possible, but eh).
10:01am 04/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1081 posts
Don't economists usually say that in order to strengthen the economy, you actually WANT people to go out spending money? There was an article the other day about how the stimulus saved us because it kept people spending.


People will spend that money on other areas, productivity boosts are directly related to increases in living standards.
10:02am 04/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8107 posts
So on one hand we have abott who thinks the Syria crisis is baddies against baddies and on the other hand krud is both a staunch supporter of gay marriage AND has a massif boner for jews?


Sigh. Every forum needs a true -- ... for ours, seems like you're it.

I'm trying to figure out whether that religion thing you hide behind is something you do so to try to make you feel better for hating people the way you do, or whether the hatred comes from the religion thing.
10:09am 04/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
453 posts
So the CEO of fairfax has been on TV this morning talking about how Kevin Rudd ruined the Labor party and how dysfunctional he was. Why is there no "OMG FAIRFAX MEDIA OMG" biased screaming and conspiracy theories echoing around the country? Just goes to show this whole "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA OMG" bulls*** is just stupid.

Even Kevin Rudds response to it was along the lines of "oh it's just his opinion its ok"
10:12am 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7940 posts
I'm trying to figure out whether that religion thing you hide behind is something you do so to try to make you feel better for hating people the way you do, or whether the hatred comes from the religion thing.

Jehovah's witnesses don't avoid blood transfusions using their religion as an excuse, their religion causes them to do so.
10:14am 04/09/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3270 posts
Fairfax and News Corp are directly comparable because they both have 63% of the media market.
10:18am 04/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1083 posts
Even Kevin Rudds response to it was along the lines of "oh it's just his opinion its ok"


Exactly, it's labelled as opinion not f*****g a front page splash. This is the difference.
10:33am 04/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37306 posts
People will spend that money on other areas, productivity boosts are directly related to increases in living standards.
Oh right, I forgot that the NBN makes exporting money to other markets even more efficient :)
10:44am 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7941 posts
Yeah I dunno about expecting much change in online shopping, unless Coles/Woolworths/etc really change their game, but a great deal more telecommuting with the high bandwidth seems realistic'ish.
11:02am 04/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8108 posts
It's kinda difficult to order chicken from amazon.com. I'm fairly confident local suppliers have that market all tied up.
11:39am 04/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
454 posts
Exactly, it's labelled as opinion not f*****g a front page splash. This is the difference.


So there can't be opinion on the front page of a newspaper?

I can't believe the amount of people across the internet who are frothing at the mouth with "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA OMG" they actually think that the Liberals are going to the win election, not because Labor are a completely incompetent government but because a couple of newspapers have ran negative stories about Labor.(That's right, newspapers that is a last century declining media form) They act as if people can't make up their own minds and that if they see a front page like the ones posted they will be automatically brainwashed into voting a certain way.

It's hilariously retarded. The level of butthurt is probably the worst i'v ever seen in my life.
12:56pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
127 posts
Corbett has been a member of the Liberal Party for a while. Hardly expect him to spruik anyone else.
01:13pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Furgle
1064 posts
01:24pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2237 posts
Looks like someone got out of the wrong side of the bed today.
02:14pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3077 posts
The numbers are looking a lot closer now - http://election.crikey.com.au/cash-tracker/ - I guess we'll probably see the numbers change again tomorrow when the LNP release their final costings.
02:21pm 04/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17409 posts
it wouldn't surprise me if there's a record number of informal votes this election.
02:59pm 04/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
455 posts
Lol @ that graph Furgle posted that claims Labor is going to single handedly save the planet by introducing a tax. ROFL.

I just got back from pre-polling. It absolutely packed with people who simply can't wait to vote for the Liberals. We are hearing the whispers of freedom.

It feels like christmas!

The numbers are looking a lot closer now - http://election.crikey.com.au/cash-tracker/ - I guess we'll probably see the numbers change again tomorrow when the LNP release their final costings.


Their so called "cash-tracker" has already been debunked as completely inaccurate and false.
03:39pm 04/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23282 posts
Their so called "cash-tracker" has already been debunked as completely inaccurate and false.
Care to take a break from frothing over everything to post a link?
03:46pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14364 posts
Care to take a break from frothing over everything to post a link?

Its basically he says so, over and over until people stop talking about it.

Meanwhile in reality as Coalition cost cuts etc come in the tracker updates appropriately.
03:50pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3818 posts
SheerObesity, did you honestly think that graph was 100% literal? Refer to "Gay marriage with love & rainbows and s***"
since you're too stupid to understand it, I'll help you. They meant that Labor's tax will contribute to saving the planet, and encourage other countries to join in on taxing carbon to promote the use of renewables.
03:51pm 04/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1527 posts
04:02pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3078 posts
Their so called "cash-tracker" has already been debunked as completely inaccurate and false.


Where is that debunking? Link? Proof? Happy to be corrected, but I'm not going to believe you because you say so.
04:51pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
128 posts
Best news for science research in this country today. Chances are fairly good that Sophie Mirabella will be ousted from her seat. Here's hoping we get a better science minister.
05:33pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7943 posts
Do shadow ministers usually get their same roles in government?

The coalition was reportedly going to privatise the CSIRO not long back, which to me reeks of the general "the free market solves everything and everything is about monetary profit!" spiel that people like infi seem to have got trapped in (which, as various science speakers have pointed out, has never been how anything worthwhile in science has been discovered, where electricity to satellites to the internet have all been government funded tinkering without a known near term profitable product in mind).
06:37pm 04/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
456 posts
Where is that debunking? Link? Proof? Happy to be corrected, but I'm not going to believe you because you say so.


Refer back to the other thread on the second page i think. A lot of us showed that their figures are completely inaccurate. They left spending off of Labors tally and left cuts off of the Liberals tally, also they wrote the wrong costs for some of them.
06:42pm 04/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20460 posts
Do shadow ministers usually get their same roles in government?


no

The coalition was reportedly going to privatise the CSIRO not long back, which to me reeks of the general "the free market solves everything and everything is about monetary profit!" spiel that people like infi seem to have got trapped in (which, as various science speakers have pointed out, has never been how anything worthwhile in science has been discovered, where electricity to satellites to the internet have all been government funded tinkering without a known near term profitable product in mind).


we wouldn't have discovered fire if not for government. in fact no science ever occurred before governments existed.
06:46pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7944 posts
Thanks for proving my point.

(And, for the record, quantitative science as a technique is only about 300 years old, which has only flourished under government funded arrangements, ironic that you'd disparage the results on a computer over the internet on the world wide web using electricity and satellites - 5 government funded inventions given to the market to refine)
06:50pm 04/09/13 Permalink
pjano
71 posts
I saw a new ad on TV tonight. Now labor are saying if Tony wins then 12000 people will magically lose their jobs (instead of 4000 in the original ad). We can trust labor though because we know how good they are with numbers...



(And, for the record, quantitative science as a technique is only about 300 years old, which has only flourished under government funded arrangements, ironic that you'd disparage the results on a computer over the internet on the world wide web using electricity and satellites - 5 government funded inventions given to the market to refine)


absolute rubbish, quantitative science as a technique has been around for at least 8000 years
07:03pm 04/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1006 posts
Where is that debunking? Link? Proof? Happy to be corrected, but I'm not going to believe you because you say so.


I wouldn't go so far as to say debunked, but if you read the actual break down rather than the big shiny numbers at the top you'll see for labour:

2 Aug Other undetailed savings measures -$1b


I'd say giving them a 1b dollar leg up like that calls into question the accuracy of their numbers, and the vast majority of those figures are not easily traced down.
07:09pm 04/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1007 posts
also looking a this handy google spreadsheet I made

The LNPs numbers come to 9.6b in unaccounted new spending not 10.45b.

But you know billion here billion there.
07:50pm 04/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23286 posts
Refer back to the other thread on the second page i think. A lot of us showed that their figures are completely inaccurate. They left spending off of Labors tally and left cuts off of the Liberals tally, also they wrote the wrong costs for some of them.
Just checked and no there was nothing. Checked the 3rd page too.

The LNPs numbers come to 9.6b in unaccounted new spending not 10.45b.
There is a 9.8245 at the top. Did you mean it came to 9.8?
08:25pm 04/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1008 posts
Ah yeah my mistake, one of the savings need to be moved to a cost sorry. Still a decent gap note that Labors is a good deal closer.

The point is that a list of expenses and savings isn't very hard to add up (The irony of me f*****g up isn't wasted, but in my defense their layout is stupid seriously group the cost and savings separately). Labors is mysteriously much closer to the mark, at -4.29 including 1b of mystery savings.

Not all the numbers in the final figure are being shown is the point.
08:45pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3079 posts
Ah yeah my mistake, One of the savings need to be moved to a cost sorry. still a decent gap Note that labors is a good deal closer. The point is that a list of expenses and savings isn't very hard to add up. Labors is mysteriously much closer to the mark, at -4.29 including 1b of mystery savings.Not all the numbers in the final figure are being shown is the point.


So they're still $10 billion short of balancing the budget?? Assuming they announce no new policies between now and Saturday.

*Begin doomsday music* SO where's the $10 billion coming from! I'm super super keen for tomorrow when hopefully it's all revealed!!
08:49pm 04/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20461 posts
SO where's the $10 billion coming from


Just hack off another 10,000 Commonwealth public servants. Remember, very few commonwealth public servants are involved in direct service delivery.
08:52pm 04/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23288 posts
Well if the money is in the bank, what does it matter where it came from when we are doing just a raw count of the numbers? What I mean is, despite the suspiciously vague description of 'other undetailed savings measures', is the money actually there or not?
08:57pm 04/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
457 posts
I saw a new ad on TV tonight. Now labor are saying if Tony wins then 12000 people will magically lose their jobs (instead of 4000 in the original ad). We can trust labor though because we know how good they are with numbers...absolute rubbish, quantitative science as a technique has been around for at least 8000 years


Just like they said the coalition had a $10 billion dollar black hole that only lasted about 4 hours before it was debunked. Hilarious stuff. Labor love flinging crap.

Lucky for us, the Coalition is going to win. Only 2 more days before we are free from the lying incompetent Labor government and Kevin Kardashian.
09:00pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4500 posts
Whats it matter now anyway guys. You have the next three years to hope that someone gets their s*** together because it sure as f*** wont be abbott
09:30pm 04/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1009 posts
Well if the money is in the bank, what does it matter where it came from when we are doing just a raw count of the numbers? What I mean is, despite the suspiciously vague description of 'other undetailed savings measures', is the money actually there or not?


That's what I'm driving at, these figures are all based on future estimates, as we saw with the MRRT, projections and reality can vary wildly.

I would treat that cash tracker with extreme caution. Anything not directly citing a party figure, which other outlets have agreed is accurate is an estimate subject to "massage".

As I was saying the Undetailed savings measures set my bulls*** detector off big time, and when their figures don't add up neatly on such a simple piece of arithmetic, its all a bit un-trustworthy.
09:48pm 04/09/13 Permalink
Hybr|d
Brisbane, Queensland
920 posts
Ugh, so I just got to the question on marriage equality, but sadly he seems to believe the bulls*** that you're "born" gay. Anyone who's done even any basic level of psychology understands it's nurture, not nature, and to write someone off as being gay because they were "born that way" just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human interpersonal development and world view.


To be honest it seems like you're the one with the lack of psychological understanding, you really should do some research before being so dismissive, which is probably more counterproductive that you realise. If homosexuality were discovered to be at least part-biological based, there would likely be more progressive acceptance throughout the entire world and the denial of civil liberties would be that much harder to justify.
03:42am 05/09/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4285 posts
06:14am 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3080 posts
Coalition to release full costings as ad blackout begins
of course they are


The reality is that the vast majority of people have already made their mind up, and that, for many people, is probably due to all the leadership crap - which is perfectly understandable. It is a little disappointing though because there have been some serious reforms over the last 3-6 years, the ALP shot themselves in the foot. The fact that so many people have made their mind up before the costings are released illustrates that perfectly.

Still, lets look at the bright side.

1) It's going to be a tough 3 years for an economic perspective.

2) Tony Abbott can't hide anymore, he will be PM, so his ineloquence when dealing with the media and foreign dignitaries is going to be there for everyone to see.

3) I suspect they're going to have to ditch their targets for carbon emission reduction as it will be too costly - they've already set this up though so I don't know how much of an issue it would be for LNP voters.

4) It's harder being in government than in opposition.

5) Maybe he will allow a conscience vote on SSM anyway? He has certainly opened the floor up to that possibility.
07:12am 05/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36414 posts
pretty much everything that goes wrong, they will just blame on the previous government.

i bet infi is rubbing his hands with glee looking forward to all the prospective help outs he can line up with a more "business friendly" government (maybe that should read "infi family friendy")
07:32am 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3082 posts
pretty much everything that goes wrong, they will just blame on the previous government.

i bet infi is rubbing his hands with glee looking forward to all the prospective help outs he can line up with a more "business friendly" government (maybe that should read "infi family friendy")


They can do that for the first term, they can't do it for the second though.
07:38am 05/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
129 posts
Ugh, so I just got to the question on marriage equality, but sadly he seems to believe the bulls*** that you're "born" gay. Anyone who's done even any basic level of psychology understands it's nurture, not nature, and to write someone off as being gay because they were "born that way" just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of human interpersonal development and world view.

To be honest it seems like you're the one with the lack of psychological understanding, you really should do some research before being so dismissive, which is probably more counterproductive that you realise. If homosexuality were discovered to be at least part-biological based, there would likely be more progressive acceptance throughout the entire world and the denial of civil liberties would be that much harder to justify.


It's one of those technically incorrect answers. But it's a damn easier than trying to explain epigenetics or multigene traits. It still says there's a lack of control over sexuality and that it is a perfectly normal trait.
07:40am 05/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20464 posts
I am rubbing my hands with glee over
A) all the money I am finally winning in sportsbet. (shorten to be next leader at 2.10?)
B) finally getting a good government that doesn't change PMs every couple of years, and knows how to count to ten.
08:12am 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7945 posts
and knows how to count to ten.

Not if it gets in the way of their ideological opposition to free markets magically solving everything, or threatens Gina's or Murdoch's businesses, then you can be sure that 10 is some invisible number that only silly eggheads count to.
08:24am 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3084 posts
finally getting a good government that doesn't change PMs every couple of years, and knows how to count to ten.


The LNP know how to count to ten, they will just drop all their other commitments to get there, such as hitting the carbon reduction targets. It's about priorities, in an alternate world I would have been curious to see what the LNP did when the GFC hit, if they would have undertaken austerity measures, or not.
08:34am 05/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10070 posts
I am rubbing my hands with glee over A) all the money I am finally winning in sportsbet. (shorten to be next leader at 2.10?)B) finally getting a good government that doesn't change PMs every couple of years, and knows how to count to ten.
Can I save this for later when Liberal announce they are just going to continue with a number of Labor policies because "looking closely" showed that the costings weren't as bad?
09:44am 05/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6217 posts
Haha, did anyone catch that Clive Palmer interview this morning where he calls Murdoch's ex-wife a Chinese spy?

Dude is bats*** insane.
10:04am 05/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6004 posts
I caught the one on Ten news yesterday where said all polls are owned and controlled by murdoch.
10:09am 05/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6275 posts
Haha, did anyone catch that Clive Palmer interview this morning where he calls Murdoch's ex-wife a Chinese spy?Dude is bats*** insane.


I did, someone linked it on facebook. It was glorious television. :D

10:12am 05/09/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21091 posts
Only 2 more days before we are free from the lying incompetent Labor government


And we get a lying incompetent Liberal government instead. Its like the tagline from Aliens vs Predator, "Whoever wins, we lose".
10:13am 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7946 posts
Palmer is nearly everything I fear to ever become except filthy rich.
10:48am 05/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
458 posts
rofl the "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA OMG" hysteria is growing so much. His wife is now even a "chinese spy" Funniest part was when Karl said "Why don't you talk about it instead of ranting about the murdochs!" perfect.

This is just hilarious. I can't believe how butthurt people are because their preferred party isn't going to win the election.

It kind of reminds me of white surpremecist groups how they are always ranting about "DA JEWS" and how the jews apparently control all the government and the media and the banks, but it in this case its "DA MURDOCH MEDIAZ OMG"

Time to get out the tinfoil hats people, Rupert Murdoch is probably reading our minds with lazer beams.

And we get a lying incompetent Liberal government instead. Its like the tagline from Aliens vs Predator, "Whoever wins, we lose".


Except the Liberals have been proven to be competent in the past and haven't told a lie or anything that could be considered a lie for nearly a decade.
10:50am 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7947 posts
Nah, there's no doubt that the murdoch empire is pretty rubbish, but Clive is like you Door in seeing conspiracy theories in everything including climate science. You two would get on well I think, just throw faceman into the mix.
10:53am 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3085 posts
That was awesome, Clive is such a lunatic :)
11:01am 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
75 posts
Haha, did anyone catch that Clive Palmer interview this morning where he calls Murdoch's ex-wife a Chinese spy?Dude is bats*** insane.


she must be a spy because she knows kung fu http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8648141/Rupert-Murdoch-attacked-during-phone-hacking-hearing.html
11:04am 05/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10678 posts
Nerfy
Global Warming... Let it go.
Its finished.

12:01pm 05/09/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2137 posts
hahaha clive is faceman x1000
12:10pm 05/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1084 posts
Hottest year on record and still a climate change denier?

I am impressed by your faith.
12:10pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10076 posts
I'm wondering if Tony can really one up himself while in control of Australia? I mean, he has already used some of his best ammo like nodding silently at reporters or the guy with the "not bad looking daughters" so will he have any left over?
01:25pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23290 posts
The hilarity of him bungling everything can only possibly be matched by reading the excuses that will be posted here by his loyal followers. They will be boring for a while. They'll just claim all his mistakes are Labor's fault at first but after a while they will have to line up those old worn out mental gymnastic hoops and jump through them for us again.
01:31pm 05/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
459 posts
The hilarity of him bungling everything can only possibly be matched by reading the excuses that will be posted here by his loyal followers.


It's ironic because you just described Labor and the response to Labors f*** ups here. No doubt the die hard Labor supporters here will try to pick a fault with everything and won't actually acknowledge when the Liberals fix Labors mess up.
01:40pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23291 posts
Yeah sure thing froth boy.
01:41pm 05/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20465 posts
It's a pretty standard MO for any government.
01:45pm 05/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37312 posts
I am rubbing my hands with glee over A) all the money I am finally winning in sportsbet. (shorten to be next leader at 2.10?)B) finally getting a good government that doesn't change PMs every couple of years, and knows how to count to ten.
heh I was reading a completely unrelated article and it casually mentioned a leadership challenge in the Liberal party. I can't remember this at all, so either it just left my brain immediately when it happened or I completely missed it, but the Liberal leadership spill of 2009 was a thing. Especially funny considering Abbott only ended up winning by one vote!

Given how many people I've seen say things like "oh yeh I'd vote Liberals if it wasn't for Abbot", I wonder how long it might take until the next one? Because it will be PRETTY, PRETTY FUNNY if it happens in the next few years if the Liberals win :)
02:13pm 05/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1085 posts
Look on the bright side...

http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news/why-an-abbott-election-victory-would-be-good-20130905-264996/


But most importantly, as those depressing numbers come in on Saturday night, we remember that there is one great final secret about the Left, and it is this: in the long run, we always win.

Change never comes as quickly as we want it to, and it's often in a frustrating two-steps-forward-one-step-back waltz rather than a decisive sprint, but look at the Australia of 2013 compared with ten years back. Or twenty years back. Or forty. There are always new battles to fight, and specific issues like asylum seeker policy or workplace rights or interventions in remote indigenous communities have seen some humiliating retreats in recent times, but eventually things progress.

The Coalition wasn't at all interested in carbon schemes or marriage equality under Howard; now they know that they have to at least acknowledge these issues, if only to stall movement on them – and stalling only works for so long. These changes are often slow and incremental so we can be forgiven for not noticing at the time, but when you look at the bigger picture it's clear: Australia progresses. Consensus takes time but ultimately we're going to win. We always do.
02:15pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4286 posts
looking forward to abbott's first brainfart as PM reported in the world media
02:18pm 05/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11126 posts
Did anyone watch Kitchen Cabinet with Tony Abbott last night? It was quite interesting.

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/42132

Rudd is on tonight at 8:00.
02:24pm 05/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20466 posts
I wonder how long it might take until the next one? Because it will be PRETTY, PRETTY FUNNY if it happens in the next few years if the Liberals win :)


we now have 2 precedents for it. Both by this Labor government. Didn't work out for them too well, so I wouldn't recommend it.
02:29pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1436 posts
The precedent was McMahon vs Gorton.
03:15pm 05/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10680 posts
Kitchen Cabinet is sometimes funny, the one with Christopher Pyne and Amanda Vanstone was hilarious.

03:27pm 05/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
460 posts
So the Coalitions costings have been released, where is all the doom and gloom ruddy was talking about? Don't tell me he was fibbing again?
03:44pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3086 posts
Here are some of the main points of what Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb announced:



1) Coalition says its figures would improve budget bottom line by $6 billion
2) Extra $1 billion would be seen as a result of an increased economic activity after scrapping of carbon tax
3) A reduction in government debt by $16 billion
4) Extra $5 billion over forward estimates for key infrastructure projects
5) Infrastructure projects to be paid for by $4.5 billion cut to foreign aid
6) Rephase $650 million of Murray-Darling Basin water buy-back programs
7) $2.4 billion Regional Infrastructure Fund, paid for through the mining tax, will be scrapped
8) Direct Action climate change policy and broadband plan not independently costed


This was taken from the ABC news, I'm sure a more detailed analysis will be available later.
04:06pm 05/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1086 posts
Roads built on the back of the worlds poorest.

The Liberals make the English tories look like left wingers.

F*** public transport, build roads.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTYLmIjCUAATozO.jpg:large
04:15pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7948 posts
04:16pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3087 posts
Infrastructure projects to be paid for by $4.5 billion cut to foreign aid.


How about we cut the f*****g insane PPL scheme and keep the foreign aid where it is???
04:18pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Furgle
1065 posts
Foreign aid has been renamed to "buy the boats"
04:37pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23292 posts
How about we cut the f*****g insane PPL scheme and keep the foreign aid where it is???
Because PPL is a Real Solution designed for Real Australians. Gotta move this country forward and Eliminate The Waste.
04:43pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6278 posts
So the Coalitions costings have been released, where is all the doom and gloom ruddy was talking about?


I did see Whyalla wipe-out right there on my tv. Shockin' me right out of my brain.
04:45pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7949 posts
The Coalition has announced an opt-out internet filter on 'adult content'...

http://www.zdnet.com/au/australian-opposition-vows-to-implement-internet-filter-by-default-7000020270/
04:45pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23293 posts
The Coalition has announced an opt-out internet filter on 'adult content'...

http://www.zdnet.com/au/australian-opposition-vows-to-implement-internet-filter-by-default-7000020270/
The comedy is beginning already.
04:47pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
76 posts
Hottest year on record and still a climate change denier?I am impressed by your faith.


hottest year on what record?
04:48pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
7131 posts
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04:49pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Furgle
1066 posts
Really dirty move to "announce" the internet filter after the advertising blackout.

S*** version of NBN, now with a filter!
05:13pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
35 posts
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Gold Coast, Queensland
7132 posts
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36 posts
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Gold Coast, Queensland
7133 posts
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05:26pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
130 posts
Politicisation of research too...
05:26pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
37 posts
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Brisbane, Queensland
943 posts
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38 posts
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Gold Coast, Queensland
7134 posts
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39 posts
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05:57pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23298 posts
Okay.

Seeing as though you have a scientific background, I'd love to hear your views on climate change and what your thoughts are on the current government action or inaction to combat against it.
05:59pm 05/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18701 posts
The monk's reign has began with the internet filter, didn't this already get s***canned once?

Haha scientician

06:08pm 05/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37313 posts
06:16pm 05/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
461 posts
Wow, the lengths some people will go to advertise Kevin haha!
06:20pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23299 posts
Is the joke that whatever The Dire is has KEV spelt out acrostically below it?
06:20pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36418 posts
tung!!!!!!!
06:31pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
83 posts
Okay.Seeing as though you have a scientific background, I'd love to hear your views on climate change and what your thoughts are on the current government action or inaction to combat against it.


It is an interesting topic. Lots of people making money out of it without looking at any real facts. It's far from my area of interest but I have read some work in the field. If we look at CO2 levels over the past 15 years they have gone up by about 10% but the global air temperature has remained stagnant. The global ocean temperature is also steady. Fruit and vegetable will likely taste worse in the future since the plants will adapt. If the permafrost thaws out then we might see a ~10-15 degree rise in global temperatures. The biggest contributors to climate change are natural wetlands, ruminants, termites and paddy fields (we're talking around 5*10^14 g CH4 / year). Microbial respiration is the biggest release of CO2 into the atmosphere. Nobody has any idea what it will be like by 2020. The Kyoto Protocol has been an epic fail. What exactly do you want to know about?

edit: need to drive home now, will be afk for a while
06:35pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7954 posts
the global air temperature has remained stagnant. The global ocean temperature is also steady.

Wat?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/ocean_heat_content.gif
he biggest contributors to climate change are natural wetlands, ruminants, termites and paddy fields (we're talking around 5*10^14 g CH4 / year).

"While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, there is over 200 times more CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence the amount of warming methane contributes is 28% of the warming CO2 contributes."

http://www.skepticalscience.com/methane-and-global-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions-intermediate.htm

People can fact check when you bulls*** on the Internet, I advise against it...
06:48pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
131 posts
Two articles this afternoon I liked

http://theconversation.com/guess-who-defines-waste-in-arc-funded-research-17880

The second I may like because of my inherent bias. I do like though regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Greens policy, at least you have the opportunity to make an informed choice.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2013/sep/05/greens-credit-upfront-costings

Or scream rabid ignorant hyperboles if that's what you choose
06:52pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7955 posts
06:56pm 05/09/13 Permalink
WetWired
Brisbane, Queensland
6249 posts
06:59pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
84 posts
"While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, there is over 200 times more CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence the amount of warming methane contributes is 28% of the warming CO2 contributes."http://www.skepticalscience.com/methane-and-global-warming.htmhttp://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions-intermediate.htmPeople can fact check when you bulls*** on the Internet, I advise against it...


ROFL, did you really just reference a website called "sceptical science" ?


While we're on this topic, would anybody like to hear my theory about how we could use below sea level evaporation basins such as Lake Eyre and the ocean's tides to power large hydroturbines?
07:41pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7958 posts
ROFL, did you really just reference a website called "sceptical science" ?

Yes, and if you truly had any knowledge of the climate debate you'd know that it's where scientists are pointing people with misconceptions like yours.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/endorsements.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_Science#Reception_and_motivation
07:43pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23301 posts
There is nothing wrong with the skeptical science site. If there is would you kindly point out what is wrong and include the correct information with citations please? Seems to me you are just dismissing it as false with little or no basis, which is confirmation bias. Basically, it means you have your mind already made up about something, and when new things are presented that might shake up your decision, you just ignore it for some reason. I never really understood why people do it.
07:47pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3820 posts
When a person's beliefs are challenged, and proven wrong, instant rejection even with concrete evidence seems to be the norm.
It takes a brave person to change their view, and to say they were wrong. it shouldn't be that way.

I think it could be because they lose credibility and the ego is hit from that, so they try everything to avoid being put in that situation, convincing themselves their position is the correct one
07:56pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
85 posts
There is nothing wrong with the skeptical science site. If there is would you kindly point out what is wrong and include the correct information with citations please? Seems to me you are just dismissing it as false with little or no basis, which is confirmation bias.


Ah, but I didn't dismiss it as false at all. Nor did I present any sort of bias whatsoever. I only look at peer-reviewed primary literature, not something that an astrophysicist writes up in his spare time. If you bothered to read the comment section of those articles, you would notice that they're out of date.
08:09pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7960 posts
Sure that's what you meant.

And you still haven't been able to explain how it's wrong.
08:11pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
86 posts
you still haven't been able to explain how it's wrong.


Sure,

"While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, there is over 200 times more CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence the amount of warming methane contributes is 28% of the warming CO2 contributes."

For a start this quote isn't referenced with any supporting data. Secondly it talks about the amount of CO2 and methane currently in the system, but does not talk about how much is being produced, and what are the effects of CH4 vs. CO2. I'll bbl
08:17pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23302 posts
Yes you did. You said 'ROFL, did you really just reference a website called "sceptical science" ?'. Are you saying that when someone asks you to read something that isn't peer-reviewed primary literature that you give them a sarcastic d***ish reply? Because I have a sneaking suspicion that you were insinuating it was a crackpot site ala naturalnews and that the stuff on there was wrong.

And yeah you haven't explained how any of it was wrong or posted the new correct up to date information. Come on professor we were counting on you!
08:18pm 05/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1529 posts
08:20pm 05/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1010 posts
Yes hurricanejim that video just suggested that tapping into broadband was akin to harnessing one of the four basic forces (electro-magnetism)

mmmm balance.
08:43pm 05/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11128 posts
Well I just watched Kevin Rudd on Kitchen Cabinet. I have to say after watching both episodes I find both candidates (not necessarily their policies) more endearing as people.
I've realised Tony's stilted way of communicating on television seems to be how he always is. I've also recognised what a multi-talented and dare I say it "deep" individual Kevin Rudd is.

Shows like this are worth watching because they humanise people we usually only see represented in the media in a critical way.
08:46pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
87 posts
Yes you did. You said 'ROFL, did you really just reference a website called "sceptical science" ?'


I find it amusing that there is even a website called that, sounds like something a QUT graduate would write.
09:00pm 05/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3822 posts
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/hockey-closes-campaign-with-a-joke-20130905-2t7ab.html

Silly liberal voters believe the Coalition can magically get the economy to pre 2008 levels. Howard's period was a golden age that was not caused by government influence.
09:12pm 05/09/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10120 posts
onto the event coming next weekend:


voters have short memories, and in case you've forgotten - most people are easily distracted. Myself included.. We're all very busy people who lead busy lives.

More so with the newer generation of voters - though thankfully, they expect more.

IMO - this is what labour/liberal fear - and why we had a hung parliament in the last election. Liberal has prepped for this. They cannot allow this to happen again.

I'm going to have popcorn at the ready on Saturday. I'd like to spare a thought or two regarding Clive Palmer's group:

Clive Palmer's ( he's still an old Liberal ) bulls*** will find itself representing 'the people' in parliament just as the Greens did. He's the 'not the circus that is current Aussie politics' vote for Australians who are long disenfranchised with Labour/Liberal, and hoping things will get back to where were were years ago when we were the 'lucky country'.

Liberals are excellent word smiths - next time you walk into a 'Telstra store' - ask the manager of the shop is actually a real Telstra Corp store. NONE are.

Pause for a moment and think about how our information is coming to us, and if it really is 'information'


either way - you boys and girls are going to vote with your feet.


I just like to watch..




*edit*


bloody linux
09:15pm 05/09/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2668 posts
The only thing you need to know about Cliver (Plamer United Party) is that the parties first preference is Family First.
09:36pm 05/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6218 posts
This next-level retarded thread is worth it for fresh koopz material.

entertaining++
09:36pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
89 posts
10:11pm 05/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10684 posts
Hey Nerfy what do you know about Sceptical Science ?

http://web.archive.org/web/20071213172906/www.skepticalscience.com/page.php?p=3

Cook is a Cartoonist not a Climate Scientist.
You may as well be getting your Global Warming information from a Taxidriver

11:14pm 05/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23304 posts
Hey dude sweet video. Btw, thanks for posting that vague bulls*** about methane. Really hit the spot! My favourite bit was probably when you ignored the ocean thing.
11:17pm 05/09/13 Permalink
pjano
90 posts
thanks for posting that vague bulls*** about methane. Really hit the spot! My favourite bit was probably when you ignored the ocean thing.


and thank you for not coming up with any interesting debate or discussion, as usual
11:26pm 05/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37315 posts
Funny story, shortly after I posted that Dota 2 Kevo picture, my personal website started getting vast amounts of hack attempts, the likes of which I've never seen before. I've just blocked about 1000 IPs that have been continually smashing the site for the last couple hours and there are still more coming in. COINCIDENCE? You decide.
11:30pm 05/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
463 posts
It has to be Rupert Murdoch FOR SURE.

All dissidents of our Dear Leader shall be subject to severe consequences, just ask the guy who owns "dontbeaf*****gidiot.com"
12:38am 06/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7963 posts
Hey Nerfy what do you know about Sceptical Science ?

http://web.archive.org/web/20071213172906/www.skepticalscience.com/page.php?p=3

Cook is a Cartoonist not a Climate Scientist.
You may as well be getting your Global Warming information from a Taxidriver

He's also an evangelical christian, but none of those things are arguments against his answers, particularly when people in the industry have verified and recommended them.
03:40am 06/09/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3235 posts
sorry about the big brother tardis, but this is funny

03:45am 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36421 posts
i watched all of the leaders do their spiels for bb, they were all terrible except for christine from the greens.
05:04am 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36422 posts
wow, sweaty joe was a bit nervous about all his announcements eh?
05:15am 06/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10165 posts
So is the internet filter back or not ? Hockey on the project first off tried to say it was totally different, then had to say he knew nothing about it after it was pointed out he had previous opposed any sort of filter. Yeah, he had a busy day and he was sick... It's not like they had over 5 years to discuss this stuff ...

Silly liberal voters believe the Coalition can magically get the economy to pre 2008 levels.

Actually the economy has continued to grown, just not at the same rates.

People blame carbon tax for massive power price rises. Reality is there have been more increases due to infrstructure/network costs and retail price increases rather than the carbon tax.
So when your next power bill comes in it's not going to be even close to 2008 levels, it should go down ... maybe ... the cost of the energy is less than a third of the price we pay.

And the household whatever it was package (that I wasn't getting anyway) will be gone.

End of the day neither of the big parties are doing a good job.
An oppositions job is not to blindly oppose, particularly in a minority government, they should be constructively working towards good solutions (f*** knows how labor got NDIS through a minority government). But LNP refuses to even try and work that way ... at all.

If they win a minority government, Tony will waste hundreds of millions of dollars forcing us back to the polls. But it'll be a landslide so that shouldn't be an issue.

p.s. make sure you check out the group voting tickets for your state before putting 1 above the line.
For example putting 1 with senator online (online issues etc etc) is actually putting the LNP broadband plan before the ALP one (if that is your one issue).

p.p.s. your 1 in the house of reps is worth $2.something ... imo give it to a smaller party or independant unless you actually think the major party is doing the right things.

07:59am 06/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4415 posts
Post election?

Libs win, Labour demoralised (refer QLD election)

Katter, palmer, greens, and some indies win senate seats.

12 month honeymoon period then fractures start appearing.

Libs have to back pedal on some cuts, increase or introduce some new taxes.

Tony looking shakey.

Malcolm forms a group for a spill.

New leader in 18 months to 2 years.

You heard it here first folks!
08:39am 06/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20476 posts
Care to make a wager?
08:40am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1011 posts
It appears that there is some mistakes around internet filters and the LNP

Turnbulls statement that it was a poorly worded document.

The actual policy can be found here (page 7)
08:48am 06/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7964 posts
Yeah, except that was after Turnbull defended the old version yesterday afternoon on radio... http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/labor-seizes-on-coalition-filter-backflip/4939818
08:53am 06/09/13 Permalink
pjano
91 posts
Post election?

Tony looking shakey.

Malcolm forms a group for a spill.

New leader in 18 months to 2 years.

You heard it here first folks!


haha you really think Libs would sink that low?
09:07am 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10087 posts
It appears that there is some mistakes around internet filters and the LNPTurnbulls statement that it was a poorly worded document.The actual policy can be found here (page 7)
Key thing here is that Tony never knew about it (a load of bollocks for a leader not to know), Turnbull defended it vehemently but then "accidentally misread it" and apparently the policy was "mis-worded". I'm sorry, but there is no way to defend this even if you are big supporter of the party. They messed up, tried to bury it, didn't work and now are calling out saying it was mis-worded.

How can you trust a party that spent so long getting their policies documented that they accidentally skipped over one, even though the Communications Minister knew exactly what he was defending. Does this not show that Coalition have a draw full of excuses when it comes to being called out, and that they are happy to slip in a dirty policy to push their agenda? Come on now, don't be that stupid.
09:18am 06/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6006 posts
Care to make a wager?

Done. Your right hand. So I never have to read your dribble again.
09:49am 06/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
132 posts
*sigh*

The Federal Coalition has unveiled its new energy and resources document, promising to focus on restoring coal-fired power stations to profitability, boost exploration for oil and gas, and to produce another “white paper” on energy.

Other proposals in the document prepared by Opposition energy spokesman Ian Macfarlane include an investigation into the use of thorium as a potential energy source of the future, and support mechanisms for the use of LNG as a transport fuel.

“Australians have a choice between a Coalition government that will give industry policy certainty and stability or a Labor government putting investment, jobs and economic growth at risk with erratic policies and taxation burdens on Australia’s most important industry. “

However, the only reference to the country’s $20 billion renewable industry is the repeat of a promise made last December to hold yet another investigation into the health impacts of wind farms, and confirmation of a previously leaked commitment to require “real time” monitoring of wind turbine noise – a move that wind energy groups say would involve “crippling” costs.

“Some members of public have serious concerns over the potential impacts of wind farms on the health of people living in their vicinity,” the document says.

“The lack of reliable and demonstrably independent evidence on the subject of wind farms both adds to those concerns and allows vested interests on either side of the debate to promulgate questionable information to support their respective cases.

“We will implement a program to establish real-time monitoring of wind farm noise emissions to be made publicly available on the internet.”

The renewables industry has previously said that real-time monitoring would impose unbearable costs on the wind industry, and would be almost useless because of the inability to separate other noise in real-time.

Despite the fact that there have been 19 separate studies into wind farm health, including one by the National Health and Medical Research Council, the Coalition said it would establish either an independent NHMRC research program or an independent expert panel to examine and determine any actual or potential health effects of wind farms.

A previous study by the NHMRC in 2010 found that “there are no direct pathological effects from wind farms and that any potential impact on humans can be minimised by following existing planning guidelines.” A Senate inquiry into wind farm health fell largely along party lines, although it said it was unable to establish a direct link between ill health and the noise generated by wind farms.

The Coalition has said that the inquiry would be made in response to demands from anti-wind Senators John Madigan and Nick Xenophon, who may hold the balance of power in a new Senate.

“This panel will be modelled on the Independent Expert Scientific Committee on Coal Seam Gas and Large Coal Mining Development,” it says.

The announcement came as the Coalition released its costings, including an announcement that it will strip $185 million from the “connecting renewables” program, saying it would be “suspended until committed demand is identified.” That could be because it also plans to dilute the renewable energy target after yet another review next year.

A further $150 million has been redirected from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency to fund the million roofs program, while $40 is saved because the “geothermal and tidal towns” program is also axed..

The new energy white paper will address issues of “energy security” and transparency that the Coalition says had not been addressed in the previous document.

It would also investigate the role of alternative transport fuel sources, including but not limited to biofuels, LNG, CNG and LPG, and another white paper would look at how the government would support Australia’s “world leading” expertise in petroleum and mining services industries.

The document says the Coalition would look into formalising the sale of uranium to India, and would also examine the potential use of thorium as an energy source, noting that Australia possesses an estimated 18.7 per cent (489,000t) of the world’s identified resources.

“The primary source of thorium in Australia and globally is the mineral monazite. Thorium can be used as an alternative source of fuel for energy generation and possesses an energy content that can be utilised almost in its entirety,” it says. Thorium is often touted as a future energy source, although most experts say it is decades away from deployment.

Among other initiatives, the Coalition says it will provide $100 million in incentives to boost mineral and petroleum exploration, and would convene an “urgent meeting” of state governments, gas explorers and producers and gas consumers to set in place “a workable gas supply strategy for the East Coast gas market to the year 2020. “. This follows widespread warnings of a sharp jump in gas prices as the LNG terminal in Queensland begin exports, and of a potential gas shortage in some areas such as NSW.

The Coalition document noted that electricity generators across Australia have faced “huge losses” in value thanks to the carbon tax. It said these losses meant higher costs for consumers and taxpayers, although it didn’t explain how.

“The O’Farrell government has made it clear that its black coal-fired power stations will suffer a loss in value of at least $5 billion because of the carbon tax,” it said. “This is a cost that will be paid by New South Wales taxpayers already struggling with rising cost of living pressures.”

Leigh Ewbank from Friends of the Earth’s Yes 2 Renewables initiative says the anti-wind farm stance of some Coalition members is out of touch with mainstream views.

“All available public polling shows strong public support for wind farms,” says Ewbank. “The Coalition desperately needs to make a wind energy friendly policy announcement to reaffirm its commitment to Australia’s most affordable renewable energy source.”

Meanwhile, the Coalition also says it will cut foreign aid by $4.5 billion over the forward estimates. Much of this money will be spent on building roads such as Melbourne’s East West link ($1.5bn), Sydney’s WestConnex ($1.5bn) and the Brisbane Gateway Motorway upgrade ($1bn).
09:52am 06/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7965 posts
However, the only reference to the country’s $20 billion renewable industry is the repeat of a promise made last December to hold yet another investigation into the health impacts of wind farms, and confirmation of a previously leaked commitment to require “real time” monitoring of wind turbine noise – a move that wind energy groups say would involve “crippling” costs.


.........................

F*****g sinister.
09:59am 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14367 posts
haha you really think Libs would sink that low?

You are a poor student of history. They would and have.

What is it with kids today, the Liberal Party was not invented by John Howard. His reign was exemplary for a number of reasons and there is nothing to suggest that Tony Abbott will have as easy a time holding onto power.

The nature of Parliamentary democracy is that the position of Prime Minister is at the will of the party. The notion of the Prime Ministership as a sacred position appointed by the people every 3 years is a striking symptom of the presidential-style decay of the electoral environment in Australia.

^ Oh and we can expect the above reasoning to be used by the Coalition when Tony inevitably falls.
10:09am 06/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1087 posts
.........................F*****g sinister.


It's cool buddy, we'll just keep burning coal. That has no side effects for anyone.
10:12am 06/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4417 posts
Care to make a wager?


On which bits? Can you offer a book on each component and I'll consider the odds.
10:18am 06/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8112 posts
FS, did you write that or is that from somewhere? Either way, cite references please.
10:32am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1012 posts
Yeah so what ever the outcome, The policy as it stands is no internet filter, 48 hours of mis-communication is bad but, the policy prior to the f*** up is no filter, after the f*** up is no filter.

You guys attack this but I assume you are willing to forgive Swan for example not being able to quote CPI off the top of his head during the worst financial crisis since the great depression, which to me seems like a much worse lack of knowledge.

Moreover, how can you trust a party that espoused the moronic idea for over six years in the face of overwhelming evidence, that any such scheme was not able to be implemented.
10:33am 06/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7966 posts
They were defending the filter yesterday, and had the plan typed up, then said that it was never their plan - that's a bit different than not being able to quote a number off the top of their head.
10:39am 06/09/13 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
1033 posts
Pete, you're allowed to vote/support for your preferred party but still be outraged by one of their policies.
10:41am 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14368 posts
You guys attack this but I assume you are willing to forgive Swan for example not being able to quote CPI off the top of his head during the worst financial crisis since the great depression, which to me seems like a much worse lack of knowledge.

It was a f*** up but we seem to have done ok through the worst financial crisis since the great depression, so he get some slack.

It will be very interesting how well the Coalition's kind of schizophrenic slash-and-spend policy platform will perform in comparison. How many worthy programs are being slashed for the amazingly generous paid parental leave scheme? BTW, is that women only?
Moreover, how can you trust a party that espoused the moronic idea for over six years in the face of overwhelming evidence, that any such scheme was not able to be implemented.

Because it was dropped, will of the people broseph. It was never a good idea, but the same Government came up with the NBN.

Do we have any numbers on the comparative popularity of the NBN policies?
10:42am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1013 posts
The man primarily responsible for the economy not knowing key indices of the economies performance is not a minor f***up.

Some draft policy document accidentally being espoused is also a major f*** up but I think drawing an implication of deep conspiracy from that is a bit of a bonehead move.
10:44am 06/09/13 Permalink
pjano
92 posts
not being able to quote CPI off the top of his head during the worst financial crisis since the great depression
10:44am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1014 posts
Pete, you're allowed to vote/support for your preferred party but still be outraged by one of their policies.


Yeah and if mandatory filtering was a policy of theirs I would be utterly outraged.
10:50am 06/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6282 posts
Pre-poll vote at lunch time I think. Heads = Giant Douche, Tails = Turd Sandwich
11:01am 06/09/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21098 posts
BTW, is that women only?


It sure is! Men get 2 weeks I believe
11:06am 06/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
464 posts
Post election?

Libs win, Labour demoralised (refer QLD election)

Katter, palmer, greens, and some indies win senate seats.

12 month honeymoon period then fractures start appearing.

Libs have to back pedal on some cuts, increase or introduce some new taxes.

Tony looking shakey.

Malcolm forms a group for a spill.

New leader in 18 months to 2 years.

You heard it here first folks!


I don't understand your logic. If Tony Abbot and his team can't manage the budget, how is Turnbull going to? Turnbull is in Tony Abbots team...................

I don't know why people froth about Malcolm being leader, do they actually think all of the Liberals policies will change? Because they won't. People live under this delusion that all of the Liberals policies were thought up by Tony Abbot, this isn't the case.
11:13am 06/09/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3391 posts
Holy crap, only page 7 and someone mentioned Adolf Hitler! impressive.
11:13am 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14369 posts
The man primarily responsible for the economy not knowing key indices of the economies performance is not a minor f***up.

I didn't say it was a minor f***up, I said it was a f***up.

That said but we seemed to navigate the "the worst financial crisis since the great depression" just fine without Swanny being able to quote CPI off the top of his head.
I don't understand your logic. If Tony Abbot and his team can't manage the budget, how is Turnbull going to? Turnbull is in Tony Abbots team...................I don't know why people froth about Malcolm being leader, do they actually think all of the Liberals policies will change? Because they won't. People live under this delusion that all of the Liberals policies were thought up by Tony Abbot, this isn't the case.

You don't understand Australian politics very well for someone who seems to be so keen on it.

It doesn't matter if Malcolm is any better at managing the economy, the question in 18 months will be over whether installing Malcolm is expected to improve polls. Tony's approval rating will never be high and Malcolm will always poll better. See my post about the presidential nature of Australian politics in the 21st century fr more education on the matter.

This will only happen if Labor polls well in a couple year's time, but I don't see that happening. If Kev loses there will be a free election in 2016 for the Coalition as the ALP has some internal s*** to work through to be sure. The rise of the Greens is a sign of this, the left is a little blurry at the moment.

The only way Tony can f*** it up is if he goes too far with industrial relations / workplace reforms or the economy collapses into a deep recession within the first year. A recession is unlikely as the fundamentals are still quite solid, but the ALP will always be the rallying cry of working middle class and blue collar workers who feel that the pendulum has swung too far to the employer and business.
11:33am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1015 posts
Yes I would invite you to read my two sentences together and apply your own reasoning.
11:37am 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14370 posts
Yes I would invite you to read my two sentences together and apply your own reasoning.

I'm not someone who thinks its a deep policy conspiracy, so I don't get your point.

It does show that there is unreleased draft policy 2 days out, which is a little awks. AFAIK nobody has mentioned a filter until last night.
11:42am 06/09/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1835 posts
Dunno about y'all, but I cannot wait for Sunday when all this s*** is over and done, and everyone can go back to being friends.

Stand up, be counted. Go vote for whoever you want and feel good about it. Australia rocks!
11:44am 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1016 posts
The reasoning is that they f***ed up on the road to the right policy, therefore I forgive them the f*** up.
11:47am 06/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2445 posts
The Vice-Chancellor of the University of Sydney has told staff he was ''distressed'' to see the work of a renowned philosophy academic from the university unfairly ridiculed by the Coalition as an example of ''ridiculous'' and wasteful government spending. The Coalition announced on Thursday it would audit and redirect funds from the Australian Research Council (ARC) in an attempt to curb government ''waste'', with opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey singling out certain projects during a press conference. Among the projects highlighted by the Coalition is "The God of Hegel's Post-Kantian idealism", a research project being led by Professor Paul Redding from the university's Department of Philosophy. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/academic-ridiculed-by-coalition-says-sydney-university-vicechancellor-20130905-2t86l.html#ixzz2e4esdr8j


Saucey

I assume the response from the right leaning contingent on here will be something along the lines of "we agree, what a waste of money researching philosophy".

You all seem so desperate to point out the economic aspects, but what about the impact on culture, education, contributions to global environmental solutions etc etc?

12:10pm 06/09/13 Permalink
pjano
94 posts
Dunno about y'all, but I cannot wait for Sunday when all this s*** is over and done, and everyone can go back to being friends.Stand up, be counted. Go vote for whoever you want and feel good about it. Australia rocks!


Hear, hear
12:11pm 06/09/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2138 posts
i'm going to vote for everyone to have a good time.
12:19pm 06/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10686 posts
I cant wait for tomorrow night.
I love watching the Politicians squirm and b**** about why they lost.
Sadly I suspect we will have a winner well before 8pm.

Election coverage:
ABC
From 6.00pm, ABC1 and ABC News 24 will simulcast live from the ABC Election Centre in Sydney until there is a clear result. Join Kerry O’Brien with analysis from Annabel Crabb, Antony Green, Tony Jones, The Hon Stephen Smith MP (Labor) and Senator Arthur Sinodinos (Liberal).

Channel 9
Joining Oakes on the panel is Peter Costello, seen as one of the most successful Treasurers Australia has known. Further assessment of the polling results will be provided by Amanda Vanstone. Rounding out the panel is Lachlan Harris, a former key adviser to Kevin Rudd who was instrumental in bringing the ALP to power in 2007.

Channel 7
National Secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union Paul Howes and former Victorian Premier Jeff Kennett will provide commentary as key members of the election panel, along with The Hon Christopher Pyne MP (Liberal Party), The Hon Bob Katter MP (Katter’s Australian Party), The Hon Bronwyn Bishop (Liberal Party), former Federal MP Alexander Downer, and Senator the Hon Don Farrell MP (ALP).

Channel 7 looks like the most entertaining group but Antony Green is the man.
ABC will have the best coverage.

http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2013/09/election-night-2013-your-guide.html
12:26pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6284 posts
Aww, no Latham on any of the channels this year. He would have been great fun. :(
12:29pm 06/09/13 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2669 posts
Gotta agree that Channel 7 is looking to have the most fun and cringe worthy coverage...

However i'll be watching it on Aunty 24 cause i can' t stand Television advertisements.
12:52pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14371 posts
The reasoning is that they f***ed up on the road to the right policy, therefore I forgive them the f*** up.

I'm not sure that government spending money on filtering software is the right policy.

Why should they enter the market at all, opt-in or not? There's lots of private offerings.
12:58pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
133 posts
FS, did you write that or is that from somewhere? Either way, cite references please.


Sorry it's from a Guardian article. Tried to edit it straight after but it kept wanting me to log in again. I then had to go and do some actual work.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/coalition-energy-document-focuses-almost-entirely-on-fossil-fuels
01:20pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10094 posts
All they need to top off Channel 7's coverage is Palmer himself. Boy that would be one awesome election show. Think we'll be sticking with ABC though, seems to be the most interesting serious wise. Election party time!
02:24pm 06/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4418 posts
I don't understand your logic. If Tony Abbot and his team can't manage the budget, how is Turnbull going to? Turnbull is in Tony Abbots team


What Hoggy said, besides since when has logic made a difference in politics?

Channel crazymorton Saturday night - World War Z
02:30pm 06/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17425 posts
Channel crazymorton Saturday night - World War Z


i'll be watching that channel too.
02:35pm 06/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6219 posts
I'm with eski and konstie.
02:50pm 06/09/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5337 posts
just voted. feels good.
02:55pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8114 posts
Sorry it's from a Guardian article. Tried to edit it straight after but it kept wanting me to log in again. I then had to go and do some actual work.


edit is broken and has been for a long time, you have to log in to triumph.ausgamers or somewhere similar.
03:26pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3823 posts
So can any liberal voter here actually state why voting for Liberal is a better idea than Labor?
Let's use good ole facts with evidence.

Leadership stability isn't a good enough reason so lets just eliminate that for the moment
04:10pm 06/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20477 posts
So can any liberal voter here actually state why voting for Liberal is a better idea than Labor?


Somehow I don''t think you're undecided.
04:34pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3824 posts
I'm just trying to grasp how liberal voters think they're capable going by what we've seen come from them so far.
04:37pm 06/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
466 posts
x10 infin.

Its clear vash isa die hard Labor/Greens supporter. Just asking those questions for the hell of it. Most people know by now why Liberal is a better option and it's going to be reflected tomorrow at the polls.

http://livenews.abc.net.au/Event/Election_campaign_September_6/87541019This makes no sense. How can an American be considered a hometown hero, let alone why should Aussies support said "hero"?


Because he was born here and was a citizen until the 80's. His family, especially his mother and father werer heavily involved in public life.
04:50pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10095 posts
http://livenews.abc.net.au/Event/Election_campaign_September_6/87541019
Tony Abbott has described media mogul Rupert Murdoch as an Australian "hometown hero".
This makes no sense. How can an American be considered a hometown hero, let alone why should Aussies support said "hero"?

Edit: Oh look, another policy just appearing before the polls but showing the coming storm.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/rudd-says-coalition-policy-threatens-child-care-sector/4940994
The document flags a ministerial review of the Early Years Quality Fund (EYQF) - a pool of money that selected centres can draw on for wage increases.

"If elected, the Coalition will honour funds contracted from the EYQF but no further expenditure will be approved," it reads.
Goodbye care centre funds.
04:50pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3825 posts
Infi/Sheerobesity, interesting you couldn't find a reason why they're a better option.

Look at all the cuts, and the bare minimum gain to the budget bottom line. It's amusing the Coalition are revealing this when 3 million have already voted.
04:57pm 06/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20478 posts
Infi/Sheerobesity, interesting you couldn't find a reason why they're a better option.


I don't have the convince voters, they have already figured it out and that's why Labor will be dumped. it's over.

The document flags a ministerial review of the Early Years Quality Fund (EYQF) - a pool of money that selected centres can draw on for wage increases.


Another s*** Labor policy that the Coalition has to clean up. I guess you didn't know that the child care worker payrises only go to centres on union enterprise agreements and not all centres are eligible for the funding. Another ALP Union rort.
04:59pm 06/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23307 posts
Well actually it's kind of just beginning. In that last monster thread and this thread none of the froth brigade have been able to articulate why the LNP is the superior choice to Labor. All that's been posted is empty rhetoric and all caps froth posts. From my own reading, LNP are more or less the same as Labor except a little bit worse. Far worse in some cases like the NBN.

So now we get to see how the LNP can really f*** up. That's the bad bit - it's going to have an actual tangible negative effect on some peoples' lives. The good will be watching how embarrassingly you guys conduct yourselves. If your cute little reaction to last night's policy bungle is any indication, we are going to have some funny stuff to read.
05:33pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3826 posts
Agreed fpot.
meanwhile, i'm having facebook debates with "frothing" liberal types.. heh.. i love that worth. frothing.
05:37pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
362 posts
Well a mate of mine at work who is one of those frothing at the mouth Liberal types admitted today that he voted Labor. I nearly fell over given the bulls*** I've been hearing from him for so long now.

I guess if he can see the light then there is hope for others.
06:06pm 06/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20479 posts
A 6% swing against Labor and an electoral wipeout does indeed suggest that a number of voters have seen the light.
06:18pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3827 posts
the light that murdoch & co have convinced them of.
Honestly, tell me what is wrong with Labor?

The voters have seen the light? tell me more of this light
06:24pm 06/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4419 posts
Ron Burgundy knows what's what!

06:24pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36426 posts
Dunno about y'all, but I cannot wait for Sunday when all this s*** is over and done, and everyone can go back to being friends.


im not going to be friends with any deads**** that vote for tony's mob. (except for maybe tiny, but he doesnt know what hes doing)
06:26pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1017 posts
So can any liberal voter here actually state why voting for Liberal is a better idea than Labor?
Let's use good ole facts with evidence.


Facts and evidence tend to be wasted on you though vash. You went curiously silent when I pointed out Google in all probability bought patents for landmines when it bought Motorola.

To be absolutely clear both major parties lost my vote on the strength of their respective refugee policies.

I just enjoy pointing out to d******* labor supports who act like fonts of reason, that they tend to do exactly what Liberal supporters do, and that is tow the party line.

Like Hurricane Jim's video about the NBN suggesting that is implementation is something akin to discovery of electro-magnatism. Or that only the Labor NBN will allow for robust digital economy. Not a single one of the NBN supporters has said a single thing on the actual policy document released by Turnbull which Trog posted, not a one.

I quietly note that eorl in the child care thing didn't post a link to a news report about the announcement but rather Rudds response to the announcement (which is clearly going to be a fair and balanced characterization of the policy)

That Infi/SheerObesity tow the party line to the exclusion of reason is so obvious it doesn't bear repeating, but you labor people can't have your cake and eat it to.

If peddling misinformation and demonizing over moronic hypotheticals is bad for the LNP it is equally bad for Labor, and if you go to the fact check site on the ABC as best I can see both parties are far less then genuine in a lot of the s*** they say.
06:30pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7967 posts
Well a mate of mine at work who is one of those frothing at the mouth Liberal types admitted today that he voted Labor. I nearly fell over given the bulls*** I've been hearing from him for so long now.

I lost friends over how passionately anti rudd I was in 07. Now suspecting that I might vote for his party this election despite not being entirely happy with it, if only to sap at an over-abundance of power for the coalition, and because faceman and infi have near single-handedly made me hate the idea of ever voting for the liberals.

Not a single one of the NBN supporters has said a single thing on the actual policy document released by Turnbull which Trog posted, not a one.

I did, on page 1... http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/thread.php/3348319?p=1#post3348357

Not sure if I'm an NBN supporter exactly though, just haven't found anybody who bothers to look at the numbers and give an opinion on what they think I did right/wrong in working out that the NBN looks to be far better value for money if doing the whole street at once.
06:36pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3828 posts
Simple Pornopete, Google is play ing Apple's game. Sue anyone in sight, and Motorola is a defense mechanism.

In defence of Labor:

The Gillard governement was the most productive government in history in terms of acts per day. Achievements include the NDIS, carbon tax, the (admittedly crippled) mining tax, and the lowest increase in the cost of living in decades.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/australia-productive-prime-minister

And this is with a hung parliment. Gillard may have been the best PM we ever had. A shame propaganda has convinced people otherwise.

With the NBN, all that needs to be said is this:

http://youtu.be/bdgYaXD-Qz0
06:37pm 06/09/13 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
1035 posts
http://images.scribblelive.com/2013/9/5/f75a56aa-e8fa-43d0-9a7d-e46600ceb834_500.jpg


Didn't we get enough facebook likes to get rid of the Kony fellow?
06:37pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1018 posts
Simple Pornopete, Google is play ing Apple's game. Sue anyone in sight, and Motorola is a defense mechanism.

Seems difficult to reconcile with company that has something other than profits as a motivation.


In defence of Labor:

The Gillard governement was the most productive government in history in terms of acts per day. Achievements include the NDIS, carbon tax, the (admittedly crippled) mining tax, and the lowest increase in the cost of living in decades.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/australia-productive-prime-minister

And this is with a hung parliment. Gillard may have been the best PM we ever had. A shame propaganda has convinced people otherwise.

With the NBN, all that needs to be said is this:


Producing epic amounts of legislation is no measure of governmental prowess. To be fair Gillard grew on me as time went by. But if your measure of a governments prowess is the amount of legislation they produce I think you need to have a rethink, because its not a measure that can be validly applied to the LNP.

They will measure success by the opposite outcome, and if people can work to the opposite end of a scale as a KPI something is f***ed up with your measure.

*edit* apologies Nerf though to be fair you were talking about the digital inbox thing

*edit2* Yeah Vash that was the video HurricaneJim posted which likens the NBN to the discovery of electricity. If you honestly believe that you are a f*****g moron.
06:44pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10096 posts
We've already gone through the hoops with the Liberal/Labor NBN, and the fact that you pull that as a "haha you silly Labor voters don't bother reading Liberal policies" is just absurd.

We've already said that it will be slower before the need to upgrade becomes apparent. We've already said that "buying" the copper from Telstra is just absurd. We've already said the prices will blowout to more than the Labor NBN because of the fact that you need to maintain those boxes, and to maintain the copper lines.

Liberal's NBN is a lot more sound than their previous attempts, but it doesn't fully go there. Yes we will "eventually" get the Labor's NBN, but for how much more?
06:53pm 06/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
467 posts
Vash knows why they are a better option and why people are turning their backs on Labor, he just likes to pretend he has no idea. Willfully ignorant.

He would rather spend his time whipping out lines like "Everyone on the First Fleet were refugees" and "Google does things for humanity, not profit" than to actually read the 100's of posts about Labors constant stuff ups, dysfunction and chaos,

That Infi/SheerObesity tow the party line to the exclusion of reason is so obvious it doesn't bear repeating, but you labor people can't have your cake and eat it to.


I only deal in facts. Everything i say is backed up with evidence, it's got nothing to do with "party line" the same can't be said about die hard Labor supporters who spout and parrot crap about fake billion dollar blackholes and cutss with no evidence to support the claims.
06:54pm 06/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10688 posts
Never Forget

07:05pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10097 posts
07:06pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1019 posts
We've already gone through the hoops with the Liberal/Labor NBN, and the fact that you pull that as a "haha you silly Labor voters don't bother reading Liberal policies" is just absurd.

Your arguments all assume the digital economy requires nothing less than the Labor NBN. You haven't addressed the assertion that the Digital economy can get ahead in its absence at all in any of the discussion you have directed my way.

For example I suggested regarding remote medical work, uptake isn't determined by current technology limitations, hence the NBN is unlikely to have any real bearing on them being adopted. You have yet to respond that with anything other than a fiat insistence that NBN therefore teledoctors.

That the NBN is an essential prerequisite is an issue directly addressed in policy document.

The Liberal NBN is a result of political cowardice.

The "eventual need" for a massive government fiber optic network is the issue that you simply refuse to engage with, and I would argue based on the concerns raised in that policy document the whole policy is inconsistent while NBN construction is still in it.

But the fact that you didn't seize on it after its release suggests to me you haven't read it.

I only deal in facts. Everything i say is backed up with evidence, it's got nothing to do with "party line" the same can't be said about die hard Labor supporters who spout and parrot crap about fake billion dollar blackholes and cutss with no evidence to support the claims.


No they aren't you said that the crikey cash tracker was debunked. I was the one who suggested that their figures didn't really stand up to closer scrutiny and I said it warranted treating the figures with caution, not that they were totally debunked.
07:11pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14372 posts
For example I suggested regarding remote medical work, uptake isn't determined by current technology limitations, hence the NBN is unlikely to have any real bearing on them being adopted. You have yet to respond that with anything other than a fiat insistence that NBN therefore teledoctors.

Right now I'm sitting here in my home office trying to work productively, but its raining here in Cairns so the internet is unreliable.

And you want the elderly and infirm to trust their medical monitoring to this? How will continuing to use the copper network help with this profound reliability issue?
07:25pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1020 posts
Right now I'm sitting here in my home office trying to work productively, but its raining here in Cairns so the internet is unreliable.

And you want the elderly and infirm to trust their medical monitoring to this? How will continuing to use the copper network help with this profound reliability issue?


Obviously the only solution to this is to equip every man, woman and child with a fiber optic connection regardless of cost.
07:30pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36428 posts
Obviously the only solution to this is to equip every man, woman and child with a fiber optic connection regardless of cost.


for such an unimportant service that is an extravagent expense!!!!!
07:42pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14373 posts
Obviously the only solution to this is to equip every man, woman and child with a fiber optic connection regardless of cost.

Holy f*****g strawman!
07:47pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1021 posts
for such an unimportant service that is an extravagent expense!!!!!


Yes that currently wholly inadequately catered for service.
07:48pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1022 posts
Holy f*****g strawman!
And you want the elderly and infirm to trust their medical monitoring to this? How will continuing to use the copper network help with this profound reliability issue?
07:49pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14374 posts
Pete, you're just quoting. You need to add stuff too dude.
07:49pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36429 posts
Yes that currently wholly inadequately catered for service.


lulz, provided you live close to an exchange and your pits dont get rained out
07:50pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1023 posts
Ok if the quoting is too cryptic lets get literal.

I find the medical arguments for the NBN seriously unpersuasive. In cities where reliability isn't an issue uptake or even a policy switch with hospitals hasn't occurred with current technology despite it being able to be achieved.

to recall paves example the hospital required him to come for a face to face to tell him that nothing was wrong. I don't understand how a phone call or email (capable with currently technology) wouldn't have sufficed.

The barriers to medical endorsement of remote access I would argue are largely non-technological, therefore spending $2 or $2,000,000,000 is going to have roughly the same effect.

The strongest argument I can see for the NBN is that Netflix is currently unavailable in Australia, due to bandwidth limitations, Netflix taking up some massive amount of the overall available bandwidth in the US.

Something like Netflix is the innovation area that requires the NBN. There is nothing wrong with that but NBN for humanity is an absurd position to take and I can't see why anyone wouldn't be able to see that.

With ford f*****g off in a few years, the risk of government subsidizing private industry ought to be clear for all, but apparently not. If you want to characterize the NBN as investment it is a 100% legitimate question to ask what are the risks associated with the return. It is not a valid response to that to say "humanity requires it"
08:02pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36430 posts
who knows what is possible with a properly implemented decent speed internet connection for all australians.

probably some magical s*** that hasnt even been thought of yet.

but no f*** that, let stick with a 1980's internet solution because it mite cost something.

lets stay on the bottom of the world pile for something as unimportant as the internet, which is probably just a fad that will die out in the next few years anyway.
08:07pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1024 posts
Yeah so "some magical s*** that hasn't been thought" of isn't exactly the "facts and evidence" Vash was so insistent on.

So what you are saying is that the returns on the price tag are unknown, or at least difficult to quantify. At this point it would probably be wise to stop talking in terms of investment.
08:11pm 06/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2050 posts
A 6% swing against Labor and an electoral wipeout does indeed suggest that a number of voters have seen the light.

I wonder if that's really true or you're just telling yourself. A lot of people who vote do just vote against whoever is in power because they just plain old don't like them. Not because they think the other party has better policies.

Well actually it's kind of just beginning. In that last monster thread and this thread none of the froth brigade have been able to articulate why the LNP is the superior choice to Labor. All that's been posted is empty rhetoric and all caps froth posts. From my own reading, LNP are more or less the same as Labor except a little bit worse. Far worse in some cases like the NBN.So now we get to see how the LNP can really f*** up. That's the bad bit - it's going to have an actual tangible negative effect on some peoples' lives. The good will be watching how embarrassingly you guys conduct yourselves. If your cute little reaction to last night's policy bungle is any indication, we are going to have some funny stuff to read.

If LNP get in, I expect things to go south very fast. You'll have the LNP supporters saying Liberals had Labors s*** when they got in so what do you expect, but remember Labor got us through GFC and haven't done that bad. A deficit isn't a bad thing, it can help grow economies. Especially when the government invests in infrastructure like NBN and stuff Labor has been doing.

Only two people I know will be voting Liberals for sure. Everyone else is going to be voting Labor or a minor party like Greens/Secular or Sex.
08:11pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
14590 posts
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08:15pm 06/09/13 Permalink
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Melbourne, Victoria
478 posts
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Brisbane, Queensland
14591 posts
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Melbourne, Victoria
479 posts
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08:19pm 06/09/13 Permalink
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Brisbane, Queensland
14592 posts
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Melbourne, Victoria
480 posts
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08:21pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14375 posts
I find the medical arguments for the NBN seriously unpersuasive. In cities where reliability isn't an issue uptake or even a policy switch with hospitals hasn't occurred with current technology despite it being able to be achieved.

In which cities is internet reliability not an issue for > 90% of the population?

You are way overstating the reliability of consumer internet, probably because yours is pretty good, or you don't like the idea that any stinking ALP idea possibly has any merit whatsoever.
08:38pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10098 posts
I understand where you're coming from Pete, in that it's skeptical to believe that the NBN will "fix" everything because that just isn't the case. However, a nationally implemented network is what we need, because just like how everyone was trying to move over to electricity or copper, evolution needs to happen in order to improve upon technology and life in general.

Having this national infrastructure would benefit everyone in Australia, you seriously can't deny that. It may not come eventually, but it does need to happen in order to lay down that path. Honestly I like what Liberal are doing because they've accepted that they need to do this and it is what Australia needs to further push the boundaries. My problem is the way that they are going about it, in that in the end it WILL cost more than just laying down the fibre optic wiring initially.

We may be "okay" at the moment with copper wiring, but it doesn't last forever sadly. It has its defects and with it its limitations. We can't rely on old technology because the world of technology is always moving ahead and we need to keep up with it. Sure they may discover something much, much faster in 10-15 years but saying "lets just wait for that, no point in upgrading now" is prolonging the inevitable.

In terms of medical uptake not being dictated by the NBN, but instead external factors is true. Some people may just prefer physical contact instead of flashing themselves in front of a webcam. But, and this is a big one, having that option is the key to pushing ahead technology and making the adoption rate more successful.

Take for example the Xbox One. People have lamented and thrown massive fits of rage that Microsoft would dare make the Kinect a mandatory part of the Xbox One experience, instead asking that Microsoft simply leave it by the wayside and forget about it. Personally, I see this as a smart move by Microsoft (that and I don't really care about the whole "NSA spying on me in my PJs" deal) in that it ensures developers a 100% attach rate, and so they know that people have and will use the Kinect if there are options in the game.

This can be directly related to the NBN, in that HAVING this infrastructure will ensure that the technology of the current and future will be able to function in Australia, and while some may not adopt the new offerings like online medical doctors or faster pr0n downloads it is still there as a core part of Australia. It needs to happen because our current technology is growing old, and it needs to be upgraded to continue being competitive in the world.
08:42pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1028 posts
I don't think I am hogfather.

If you're talking about the kind of monitoring that could prevent an emergency there are factors that are always going to be outside the governments control, that would make relying on the internet a bad idea.

What if the modem is unreliable, what if the machine itself is faulty, in the case of wireless what if the layout of the house means that a bedroom doesn't get covered by an access point properly.

It's a s***** argument. Just accept it, the NBN being a good idea doesn't stand or fall with it.
08:47pm 06/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
238 posts
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09:01pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14376 posts
It's a s***** argument. Just accept it, the NBN being a good idea doesn't stand or fall with it.

Nope. Its part of why the NBN is a good idea. There's lots of other reasons but I have 0 time for you on this issue. The fatc that the rain cost me 40-60% productivity tonight is meaningless no doubt, even though that's hundreds of dollars that won't show up in this year's GDP. I have no doubt that my case is not unusual in any respect.

You don't want to discuss it honestly, you want to bag anything related to the ALP. Your shrill, fundamentally stupid shrieking about 'every man woman and child at any cost' gave away your game there, son. Like a typical QGL Liberal party troll you'll take this dismissal as some sort of warped victory, but I honestly just don't give a f***, you're not worth my time.

Anyone see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grqp-JQMFuM
Sorry for no embed, looks like youtube is not showing legacy embed code. Fix the forums and alllow youtube iframes already.

From the description:
Get this: the TV networks are refusing to put GetUp members' ad on the air. Channel 7 refused outright on the grounds that it was "distasteful", while Channel Ten and Channel Nine have told us directly that they won't continue running the ad because it criticises Rupert Murdoch.

And in a really bizarre twist of events, Channel 9 withdrew the approved ad from broadcast after having accepted payment for the ad spots, and haven't confirmed they'll refund the money.

They're giving Murdoch a free pass while censoring our free speech. We won't let that stop us though. Can you help us make sure as many Australians watch this ad as possible? It's already been seen by more than 200,000 Australians online - like & SHARE this to keep it growing!

This is why Murdoch isn't a normal foreigner with an opinion, d***chins.
09:20pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1029 posts
Yeah but Eorl the issue is that I don't have to buy an XBOX one.

Tax money being used for the NBN means I don't get a choice except by voting. That developers might be able to find a use for universal broadband is not a particularly strong argument.

Various things like teledoctors or teleworking are being held up currently by policy more so than technology.

I don't accept that only a government constructed network will get the job done. I would suggest that had Telstra's privatization been handled with even a little forethought things would be different now. But I don't see that as a justification to go crazy building networks with out considering what private industry would have done given a real shot at the matter.

Even in the current environment several large backbone networks were built, with a remotely level playing field who knows what might happen. The way I see it the primary barrier to other networks over taking Telstra is the insane advantage Telstra has enjoyed to now. Its the same in the UK with BT and BT Openreach, being their solution in structural separation.
09:21pm 06/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37321 posts
Having this national infrastructure would benefit everyone in Australia, you seriously can't deny that.
There is no evidence whatsoever to support this statement. It is completely reasonable to deny that. The only way to know that if that statement is true is to build it and see if everyone benefits. (Note: I am not saying that is a good reason to not build it.)
09:24pm 06/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1030 posts
Your shrill, fundamentally stupid shrieking about 'every man woman and child at any cost' gave away your game there, son. Like a typical QGL Liberal party troll you'll take this dismissal as some sort of warped victory


My shrill response was a light hearted attempt to point out that your assertion of medical monitoring via the NBN is a silly idea and a poor argument for dropping a few billion dollars on internet technology.

The elderly and infirm aren't exactly dropping like flies because of the current care arrangements.
09:27pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10099 posts
There is no evidence whatsoever to support this statement. It is completely reasonable to deny that. The only way to know that if that statement is true is to build it and see if everyone benefits. (Note: I am not saying that is a good reason to not build it.)
That is true, and I'll admit that was a bit hyperbolic saying it would benefit everyone without us knowing if this is the case, but from what we have seen with people who do have access to the NBN is that its generally a good thing.

Yeah that probably wasn't a good example thinking back on it now Pete, sorry about that. I guess now we at least have both parties agreeing that some form of an NBN is needed to push the infrastructure to "modern" standards, so I am happy in that regards. Obviously this election isn't just the NBN though, so you have to weigh in on all those other policies.
09:33pm 06/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37323 posts
Anyone see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grqp-JQMFuM
orite, NOW people are jumping up and down about newscomau being s***

iframe embed (noob) showing what I think about that

09:35pm 06/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37324 posts
That is true, and I'll admit that was a bit hyperbolic saying it would benefit everyone without us knowing if this is the case, but from what we have seen with people who do have access to the NBN is that its generally a good thing.
huh? what evidence do you have to support even THAT? (note: speedtest images do not count as evidence)
09:36pm 06/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10100 posts
huh? what evidence do you have to support even THAT? (note: speedtest images do not count as evidence)

Generally a good thing in that people are saying "hey this is actually really handy and helps" when they do gain access to the NBN. Schools taking up the NBN in particular are saying it does help their students, but of course this is only a small percentage of the people in Australia who have actually have the NBN, so we don't really know if it will turn out to be a good thing until, like you said, the country has full access.

The big thing is that people are hoping that the NBN will allow for new ways to conduct our everyday lives, hopefully in a positive way. Will that happen? No clue really, but I think it would be safe to say that by pushing for this new infrastructure we would have to benefit at the very least from new technology.

http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/60743-nbn-finds-favour-with-independent-schools

http://www.whs.sa.edu.au/__files/f/7691/img-625142929.pdf - interesting piece on how the NBN has helped schools currenlty connected

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/9/4/technology/australia-what-do-you-think-nbn

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/report-shows-households-will-be-3800-better-off-under-nbn/4932976

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/school-children-take-up-the-election-debate-with-insightful-results/story-fnjj6013-1226709363062

http://www.uq.edu.au/news/?article=26648 - this one is actually interesting because its UQ offering their high-speed Internet to a school, which is really cool

Of course there is also the argument that it is taking longer than anticipated and that is what I don't want to see. Obviously its a big task, but NBN Co. definitely needs to be shook up to help push the rollout quicker but within efficiency/not cutting corners.
09:47pm 06/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4421 posts
you wanted this Hoggy?

10:01pm 06/09/13 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4529 posts
I'm just going to chime in here and say I work for an NBN RSP for NBN Satellite - and NBN have grossly mismanaged the system. They're hugely incompetent, and the system is already poorly load balanced and congested at only 40,000 users. I have absolutely no faith in their ability to manage millions of fibre connections unless some drastic changes are made to their management.
10:32pm 06/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10691 posts
Well may we say God save the Queen
Because Nothing will save the Labor Party tomorrow.
I hope Rudd has a big breakfast.
11:20pm 06/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
469 posts
I simply can't wait for the end of today. I can't wait for a new government, it's so exciting!
01:45am 07/09/13 Permalink
funky
Canada
1809 posts
go to bed you fruit loop
01:56am 07/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14377 posts
02:53am 07/09/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4287 posts
voted the other day at the consulate.

byebye NBN I guess, but Labor has to learn a lesson
07:39am 07/09/13 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4688 posts
Can I save this for later when Liberal announce they are just going to continue with a number of Labor policies because "looking closely" showed that the costings weren't as bad?


If they did this for the NBN, they'd get my vote...
08:44am 07/09/13 Permalink
Audi
Perth, Western Australia
378 posts
It's time to go Kevin.
08:48am 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10102 posts
Make sure you vote everyone and good luck!
08:55am 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36435 posts
make sure you get a sausage when you vote!

http://www.electionsausagesizzle.com.au/
08:58am 07/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37326 posts
Why is the thing to find where I can vote on this weird domain: http://www.ehoundplatform.com/Services/AEC/ ?
09:05am 07/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2051 posts
I have a serious question, who are Liberals going to blame when they don't stop the boats?

Will they actually just blame everything that f**** up for them on the previous government?
09:05am 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20480 posts
I hear people whispering about freedom.
09:15am 07/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37328 posts
make sure you get a sausage when you vote!

http://www.electionsausagesizzle.com.au/
I keep getting errors :(
09:17am 07/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8737 posts

Why is the thing to find where I can vote on this weird domain: http://www.ehoundplatform.com/Services/AEC/ ?


I said the same thing to hoggy yesterday - probably some mate of an AEC manager said he could run the polling booth locator site for a good price.
09:31am 07/09/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
363 posts
I hear people whispering about freedom.


lol bipolar disorder

edit: signs of a rabies breakout in conjunction with a large amount of liberal votes.
09:33am 07/09/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1584 posts
I have a serious question, who are Liberals going to blame when they don't stop the boats?


Censor arrivals of course
http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/18775934/coalition-may-censor-boat-arrivals/

The saddest thing for me is still the NBN, killing FTTH is easily going to be Australia's biggest blunder of the 21st century. Not for speed, but for guaranteed reliability for every house - rebuilding the infrastructure that we so badly messed up by not keeping up with technology. Health, aged care and education costs are going to skyrocket going into the future because we can't implement advances in technologies and learning methods because they rely on a standard of minimum connectivity. Instead we'll go for bigger hospitals, poorer education and a crapload more aged care while the rest of the world moves on (debatably already has moved on).
10:20am 07/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14227 posts
Hehe People voting in a conservative government wanting change... irony much.
10:22am 07/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14378 posts
^ you forgot more roads at the expense of planned public transport infrastructure.
10:23am 07/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14228 posts
Where is there evidence that faster broadband speeds will increase quality of education for same costs as now OR that failure to have faster broadband speeds will make education cost more?

It doesn't mean much to have super fast broadband to a school, when that schools computers are ancient anyway. So in order to actually use the NBN in schools to its higher potentials, MORE money needs to be spent on upgrading and maintaining computers attached to that broadband... So that kind of makes it more expensive. Then you need to consider that online technologies for school content delivery that require FTTH level broadband isn't going to be free to use... O wait, more money.

So how is it going to reduce costs again?
10:26am 07/09/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7432 posts
wooo accounting exam done and voted before 1030. now the serious business of drinking can begin.
10:27am 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36436 posts
voting was a great success!

2 sausages on rolls
1.5 bacon and egg sandwiches and a can of solo!
10:47am 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36437 posts
Only god can save our great country now.

Its in your hands big guy.
10:48am 07/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37329 posts
The crappy religious nutbag establishment where I voted had no sausage sizzle! I was forced to go and buy bacon and eggs elsewhere (actually that was delicious).
10:52am 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36438 posts
that is outrageous bro.

10:54am 07/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2052 posts
Censor arrivals of course
http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/18775934/coalition-may-censor-boat-arrivals/

Well that is completely f***ed up. Doesn't that outrage anyone?

Hehe People voting in a conservative government wanting change... irony much.

I vote for progressive parties, always.
10:55am 07/09/13 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
7694 posts
I think its a Shame... Bye NBN, bye ETS...
11:01am 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10693 posts
11:04am 07/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14379 posts
Well that is completely f***ed up. Doesn't that outrage anyone?

Of course it does.

Coalition is boss, doesn't afraid of anything, does what it wants!
11:04am 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36439 posts
no, not that big guy.
11:06am 07/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2446 posts
Well that is completely f***ed up. Doesn't that outrage anyone?


I think I have moved from outrage to "resigned to the horrible truth that we are f***ed" mode. Nothing surprises me and I think it's about to get a whole lot worse.

But I am outraged by Trog's lack of sausage. Wait...
11:07am 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10106 posts
The crappy religious nutbag establishment where I voted had no sausage sizzle! I was forced to go and buy bacon and eggs elsewhere (actually that was delicious).
Was that at the church near Montezuma's and the tattoo parlour?
11:15am 07/09/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1585 posts
Where is there evidence that faster broadband speeds will increase quality of education for same costs as now OR that failure to have faster broadband speeds will make education cost more?


Not..about...faster. Its about guaranteed level of access. You can't push forward new methods of education (such as MooCs, or flipped classroom) if you can't guarantee that everyone has access. The people who choose not to get broadband - fine, but everyone should have the right to be able to access it if they so want (in the same way as electricity).

It doesn't mean much to have super fast broadband to a school, when that schools computers are ancient anyway. So in order to actually use the NBN in schools to its higher potentials, MORE money needs to be spent on upgrading and maintaining computers attached to that broadband... So that kind of makes it more expensive. Then you need to consider that online technologies for school content delivery that require FTTH level broadband isn't going to be free to use... O wait, more money.

So how is it going to reduce costs again?


School computers are minimum level of access. They guarantee that people without computers/internet at home or laptops have at least some level of access - almost no students with computers at home would use campus supplied computers (unless of course you have bad internet at home). The more and more people get internet, the less important it is for schools to provide infrastructure.

Worldwide education is no longer 6 hours of sitting in a classroom - its a constant stream of knowledge. You are correct, FTTH isn't going to be free, in the same way electricity isn't free, or a phone line isn't free - its a cost of *living*. The infrastructure is guaranteed, then you as a consumer figure out who you want to pay and for how much. Technology like this reduces costs in the long run because you have the ability to innovate in education, like what the universities are starting to do now with MooCs and flipped classrooms - students spending more time studying and collaborating at home, competing at a global level. S***, I see final year medical students that don't have home internet - they are so uninformed of the area compared to the other students, it genuinely blows my mind. Access to knowledge should be through a tap, not a town well.
11:35am 07/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6506 posts
I will say one thing about my vote. It was deeply satisfying to put the Watermelons(Greens) last.
12:00pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10107 posts
Please, elect this man.

12:12pm 07/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4422 posts
i got 2 spam recorded phone calls from Clive this morning telling me about his policies.

First one to work mobile and then within 1/2 hour another via work land line (which is diverted to mobile a/h)

Isn't that s*** supposed to stop 2 days before?

I'd also like to know how they got both numbers. well i sort of know I guess, they are only advertised on our website and my LinkedIn profile but I'd like to know the process. IE. are they trolling LinkedIn or company web sites?

Anyone else got anything?
12:19pm 07/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
470 posts
I hear people whispering about freedom.


I'v been hearing the whispers of freedom since pre polling opened! This is so exciting! I await the new regime!
12:53pm 07/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18704 posts
it is funny door, you do more to make anyone considering voting the coalition sick to the stomach with your rampant frothing than actually convincing/changing anyone's mind
01:15pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36440 posts
im hoping hes single handedly driven labor back into power.

i agree though, i though infi was the most gag inducing poster of all time, how wrong i was (i stand behind by fat comments from last nite also)
01:22pm 07/09/13 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
7695 posts
I have a plan (dream).

1. Coalition wins election
2. Labor sack Rudd as leader and bring in someone else (Beattie, Shorten)
3. Greens / Others block coalition bills in Senate.
4. Abbott calls double disalusion election.
5. Labor win
01:39pm 07/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1031 posts
The nutbag parties were out in force today. barry shootsalot from the shooting shooters party.
02:59pm 07/09/13 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
7236 posts
lol whispers of freedom ;p ludicrous.

as usual, totally annoyed by all the f**n pointless fliers & pamphlets. i cleared 4 addressed lib fliers from my letterbox & 2 more unaddressed ones & an unaddressed flier from the greens, labor & katter. despite saying 'no thank you' while i am walking into the vote, i still got passed a lib & labor & katter pamphlet .. they just wouldn't accept no ffs. dropped 'em all straight in the bin just like 90% of people were doing.

it's like the baby kissing bulls*** that pollies do for the tv.. does that s*** really work? do these inane posturings & lame fliers actually do anything other than make the political parties look like jerks?
03:06pm 07/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
471 posts
I have a plan (dream).

1. Coalition wins election
2. Labor sack Rudd as leader and bring in someone else (Beattie, Shorten)
3. Greens / Others block coalition bills in Senate.
4. Abbott calls double disalusion election.
5. Labor win


But changing Labor leader won't change their policies(which is why they are being voted out so badly)................. Why don't people understand this?

im hoping hes single handedly driven labor back into power.

i agree though, i though infi was the most gag inducing poster of all time, how wrong i was (i stand behind by fat comments from last nite also)


Well according to todays newspoll the Labor is heading for an election wipeout of 40 seats. I think the only way Tony could lose is if he dropped a nuke on Sydney.

it is funny door, you do more to make anyone considering voting the coalition sick to the stomach with your rampant frothing than actually convincing/changing anyone's mind


It's funny that you still call me Door when the real Door a.k.a "Mo" and "pjano" is in this thread.

Nothing i say is "frothing" i don't need to froth, the Liberals have this one in the bag. I don't expect to change anyones minds on here, there is no chance of changing die hard Labor supporters minds.

I can't wait for the hardcore butthurt frothing after the election result comes in, it will be good viewing :)
03:37pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3829 posts
Vote is away, not that it'll make a difference, since i live in a rich liberal area, but made sure the religious types have a smaller chance of government influence. and here's hoping the sex party gets more votes this time around.

Spotted Jaymes diaz in his electorate the other day, with only 1 other person with him. he's avoiding the media like the plague.
Typical liberal lol
03:44pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36441 posts
not so much butthurt, just sad really.
03:48pm 07/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18705 posts
It's funny that you still call me Door when the real Door a.k.a "Mo" and "pjano" is in this thread.

Nothing i say is "frothing" i don't need to froth, the Liberals have this one in the bag. I don't expect to change anyones minds on here, there is no chance of changing die hard Labor supporters minds.

I can't wait for the hardcore butthurt frothing after the election result comes in, it will be good viewing :)


haha "Nothing i say is "frothing"", maybe from your point of view

but for the rest of us, sorry bro but you are the actual worst on this forum

also lol still denying it
04:09pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20481 posts
If it didn't work do you think they would do it? Research shows 30% of voters are undecided as they walk into the polling booth. It's the ultimate one day sale.
04:19pm 07/09/13 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
7696 posts
But changing Labor leader won't change their policies(which is why they are being voted out so badly)................. Why don't people understand this?


I don't think they are being voted out based on their policies... I think they're being voted out because people are sick of the leadership squabbles, and don't have any patience for Labor or Rudd anymore.

The extra funny part is, I don't think many people like Abbott either, which is why I think had Labor gone with someone else, like Shorten or Bowen, they might have had more of a chance...
04:27pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2241 posts
To all the doomsayers and sooks, let's focus on the positive outcomes:

- No more Rudd/leadership soap operas for Labor. Politicians go back to being politicions.
- Katter will learn how pointless it was to try and form a party
- Palmer will steal some gimme votes but be completely ineffective and give up
- The Senate will almost certainly remain out of reach of the coalition, which provides the necessary checks and balances of legislation (it is never a good thing for rubber stamping, no matter what side you're on)
- The Greens will go back to being that quaint little party that nobody votes for, and hence, lose attention
- Boats will still sail on Australian waters, and arrive on Australia's shores
- The internet will still work, the sun will still rise and set, and Australia will still remain one of the best f*****g places to live.

So chin up, have some cement, and get on with your lives. And quit f*****g whining. :)
04:28pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11131 posts
:[
05:03pm 07/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4423 posts
Nothing i say is "frothing"


You're taking this piss, right?
05:05pm 07/09/13 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5848 posts
So we getting mad c*** tubes yet????
05:07pm 07/09/13 Permalink
HERMITech
Brisbane, Queensland
8335 posts
I'm starting to think that the Middle East has the best method of dealing with s*** govt.
05:07pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36446 posts
I'm starting to think that the Middle East has the best method of dealing with s*** govt.


everyone shoots guns at one another and then blames the jews or the americans?
05:09pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2242 posts
Classy.
05:13pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10109 posts
That Senate paper was rubbish. Smokers Rights? Really? First for four parties were Labor, Sex Party, Greens and Pirate Party, rest went to all the other nutbags but that religious nutbag one and Liberal were waaaaayyyy down at numbers 70-82.
05:19pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2654 posts
05:28pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2655 posts
I'm tipping greens getting more votes than ever (but still not majority)
05:31pm 07/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18707 posts
i don't think so, not after how badly that has gone this term with the greens having some power

so any boats that arrive on monday are the coalitions fault i'm assuming
05:38pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11132 posts
Nah I reckon since the PNG solution was revealed there will be a heap of Labor voters jumping ship to The Greens.
05:43pm 07/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
472 posts
Adam Bandt set to lose his Melbourne seat. Fantastic news, no more greens in the lower house.
05:45pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10694 posts
The real soap opera will be Rudd Vs the Faceless Men for whatever is left of the Labor Party.

Prolly be over by 7pm.
Coalition 90 seats.
05:50pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10110 posts
The real soap opera will be Rudd Vs the Faceless Men for whatever is left of the Labor Party.

Prolly be over by 7pm.
Coalition 90 seats.

Doubt it. I've personally heard way more Labor supporters than Liberal, but we won't know the full carnage until early next week.
05:55pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36448 posts
my facebook is reporting a huge labor support, but then again, i dont often friend retards, so its hard to know what everyone else is thinking.
05:56pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7969 posts
The polls are more reliable than our social circles, unfortunately Tony Abbott is almost certainly going to be the prime minister of australia. An ex-journalist... oh goodie...

--

p.s. There appears to be an online results thing here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/map/
06:00pm 07/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18708 posts
my facebook is reporting a huge labor support, but then again, i dont often friend retards, so its hard to know what everyone else is thinking.


hey bro, who did your wife vote for?
06:01pm 07/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2053 posts
Doubt it. I've personally heard way more Labor supporters than Liberal, but we won't know the full carnage until early next week.

That's what I'm hearing too. All my friends except 2 are very against Abbott. Most of my friends would vote Greens, Labor or Sex/Secular.
06:07pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21102 posts
I know hoggy already posted it, but it feels like this needs to be posted again for Door's sake

http://i.imgur.com/SJz9UAu.png
06:07pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10111 posts
The polls are more reliable than our social circles, unfortunately Tony Abbott is almost certainly going to be the prime minister of australia. An ex-journalist... oh goodie...--p.s. There appears to be an online results thing here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/map/
Haha doubt it. Those polls are known to target only landlines and are probably very specific on where they pull votes from.
06:12pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36449 posts
i dont have a wife anymore bro
06:14pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7970 posts
There's a huge chunk of Australia, particularly older Australia, who form a very different voting block unfortunately

At a guess I'd say that the polling groups do try to obtain their results with a huge measure of statistical validity. Whenever I get hopeful that the polls may not be representative, I remember how the republicans/fox news got themselves into a tizzy denying the statistical validity of the polls before the last US election, calling them liberal number games, then were shocked when they didn't win. Bracing for reality is best imo.
06:16pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20482 posts
The polls especially Galaxy and Newspoll are deadly accurate.
06:17pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10695 posts
channel 9 claims exit polls show Coalition 55 labor 45

http://boomerangbrief.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/gillard-destroyed.jpg?w=640
06:21pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10112 posts
Bracing for reality is best imo.
Been on that path for a few weeks now. Such a shame.
06:28pm 07/09/13 Permalink
pjano
96 posts
This thread convinced me to vote liberal for the first time


twas amusing watching the deputy PM's rant on channel 7 tonight
07:06pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
514 posts
Been on that path for a few weeks now. Such a shame.

No it isn't.
07:15pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11134 posts
Well I'm shocked that The Greens have won nothing. They are a bit extreme at times but they were the obvious choice this election, even though I voted for Labor.
07:15pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10696 posts
very early but not as bad as it could have been.
ABC coverage is all class
7s is not too terrible
9 is awful Oakes has no personality. and karl tries too hard to be funny

beattie doing well hes a chance
Craig Thompson 3% so far
Mal Brough winning, Slipper 2%

Palmer seems to be getting around 6-8% some seats ahead of the greens.
still very early
07:16pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36453 posts
totally team rob when it comes to the broughs
07:20pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21103 posts
This thread convinced me to vote liberal for the first time


I'd have to imagine you were already thinking about voting Liberal anyway, because there really hasn't been much in these threads except rabid frothing. I couldn't imagine anyone reading these threads and getting any sort of meaningful information or deriving useful commentary from them.
07:24pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10113 posts
Is something weird going on with Ch 9? They are reporting 9 seats for Lab when ABC is reporting 42.
07:27pm 07/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18709 posts
just depends how early they are willing to call a seat
07:33pm 07/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2055 posts
I am most interested to see if Greens keep Melb. I hope they do.

I wonder how much effect the Murdoch empire had on this election. They were talking about it earlier today on ABC24, saying that in some regions the only papers that are there are Murdoch papers. And it wasn't until after the boost Labor got from Rudd returning that Murdoch's papers really started the anti-Labor campaign.

Also, I thought this was pretty scary.
07:41pm 07/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8739 posts
The Project coverage is where it's at!
07:42pm 07/09/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8271 posts
Anthony Green is pretty convincing, calling it around 7PM for the Liberals.

Where I live which has been Liberal for 20 years, is still Liberal. 40% counted, 6.5% swing to the Libs.
07:47pm 07/09/13 Permalink
XandraX
Brisbane, Queensland
1176 posts
I think everyone knows LNP is going to win, the question is how many seats will they win and how many ALP seats will remain.

At the moment it doesn't seem like the apocalyptic result that was talked up in the media. Sure it's nowhere near a hung parliament but ALP will still have a big presence.
07:52pm 07/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
473 posts
Kroger called the election at 4:39pm and Green called it at 7:19pm. It's over. I'm watching the election coverage just for lulz.

Clive Palmer was just on tv claiming hes taking the AEC to the surpreme court to make the WA result be turned down beause his party didn't get the leve lof votes he wanted plus some other "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA OMG" conspiracy theory.

Bob Katter is also threatening legal action if he loses his seat. Just when i think the level of butthurt can't get any higher, it gets higher.

Labor must be getting that sinking feeling right about now. Good to see the Greens getting owned too.
07:55pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36455 posts
brb killing myself atm
07:56pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3830 posts
Here's to a stagnant 3 years.
I'll probably be fighting the masses to secure a property somewhere that Labor's NBN is still scheduled to be built.
07:58pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7971 posts
Clive Palmer looks set to take my seat with preferences. What in the flying f***?

I guess he at least has business experience. :/
08:13pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11135 posts
Tanya Plibersek 2016 kthx.
08:22pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20483 posts
Here's to a stagnant 3 years.


If by stagnant you mean no more debt? I hear ya.
08:27pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3831 posts
I guess you're the type of person to never own a property because you can't buy it outright? lol
Debt is a necessity. Money is debt.
08:29pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3088 posts
I liken the win tonight for the LNP as good a decision as starting shots of tequila at 2am in the morning. It's seems like a great idea at the time, but you'll regret it later!

On a positive note, at least we'll have plenty of gaffes to keep us amused over the next 3 years.
08:31pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7972 posts
If by stagnant you mean no more debt? I hear ya.

The libs recycled labor's plan for getting to surplus... The timeframe will be exactly the same.

Without the debt, most economists that I've seen seem to think that we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now with it.
08:33pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3832 posts
true that Zapo. look at Abbott's bungles just in the election campaign. Going to enjoy watching him squirm on the international stage.
08:33pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
515 posts
Debt is a necessity. Money is debt.

Why is it a necessity?

Money is the accepted exchange for goods and services. I work 9-5, the business pays me for my services. I then have money - they are not in debt to me, I'm not in debt to them. So how is money debt?
08:34pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3833 posts
Money is created from debt. Wealth, growth.. all comes from debt. The main thing to ensure is to not allow crippling debt. Our level of debt now is well within manageable means, and it's only liberal propaganda that states otherwise.

In the long run, the spending that Labor has done will benefit us.

I'll relink this, i think it was in the thread before.

http://i.imgur.com/Ny35rRk.jpg
08:38pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11136 posts
The LNP's slashing will be touted as reducing government debt, however in reality it is about their conservative agenda. Limiting the size of government and reducing public services will appeal to typical conservative voters, eg. those who are better off and can afford things like private hospital insurance.

What all these people who have voted for the LNP this time around have failed to realise is they are about to suffer from a loss of services that are crucial to their survival.

Time will to tell if Abbott's people make a positive change to the nation when they streamline services, or if they will cut aggressively and destructively like Campbell Newman has done.
08:46pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20484 posts
You think Campbell cut destructively, I think he barely made a dent.

Vash, yes debt is used for investment, assets which grow. Debt used to fund consumption sets you on the road to ruin. So if you were to say borrow money to give to your mates so they could go down to the pub or to give to your mates so they can renovate their homes that would be very wasteful and foolish.

We now have an annual interest bill of $15b. Why is that? What did we get to show with all of that $300b in borrowed money? Please advise.
08:51pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3392 posts
A solid result for the future of our great nation
09:02pm 07/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1032 posts
Even in that graph you supply graph Greece is sitting at the top.

Just sayin.
09:03pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3834 posts
spot on dais.

Consumption is growth. It's what drives economies. The argument that most people spent the stimulus at the pub is short sighted. In reality it was spent where it was needed. in the retail sector.
Renovations is a good way to spend the stimulus. Generally those goods are bought locally.

The interest bill is a necessary expense, and a pittance compared to the rest of the world. Labor isn't silly with money, that's what the liberals want you to believe.
09:04pm 07/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23309 posts
Even in that graph you supply graph Greece is sitting at the top.

Just sayin.
what
09:06pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7973 posts
We now have an annual interest bill of $15b. Why is that? What did we get to show with all of that $300m in borrowed money? Please advise.

Why do you keep asking these questions then ignoring the answers? Here is an economist explaining it in very simple to understand terms - http://www.smh.com.au/comment/australia-you-dont-know-how-good-youve-got-it-20130901-2sytb.html
09:06pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3393 posts
You cannot quantity that spending vash. To claim that is not justified.
09:10pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20485 posts
We have a AAA credit rating because

a) our country didn't go into recession from exports to China (GDP kept growing causing growing tax receipts, its just that Labor's spending grew faster) ; and

b) because the spendathon started from a zero net debt position.

I completely reject that article cited. The concept of stimulus is total nonsense. Japan, US and Europe all tried it and it has done absolutely nothing. Somuch so in Europe that they have now dumped stimulus altogether realising that debt ridden countries simply need to STOP SPENDING on s*** they can't afford. it is such a basic logical piece of advice.

Australia has been digging holes in the ground and shipping everything we could to China. if you can't figure that out then gawd... You think it was the government masterstroke of splash a bit of cash hah
09:14pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7974 posts
Somuch so in Europe that they have now dumped stimulus altogether realising that debt ridden countries simply need to STOP SPENDING on s*** they can't afford. it is such a basic logical piece of advice.

The article mentioned those and what happened to the economy in those sudden shock austerity cases, I don't think that you read it. There is more to economic health than exports, there is circulation and mutual propping up of businesses that can fall like dominoes if money is removed too quickly.

If you knew me personally you'd know that I am hysterically anti debt except for the non-growing HECS variety, but even I see the intelligent argument to be made for high national spending in bad times, as opposed to what Howard did which was high spending in good times.
09:17pm 07/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23310 posts
I completely reject that article cited.
Says the guy who obviously didn't even read the whole thing.
09:19pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14380 posts
Budget emergency! ... better implement the world's most generous maternity leave scheme then, RIGHT?
09:21pm 07/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2447 posts
09:22pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10115 posts
The good thing to come out of this I guess is that Labor and the independents can at least deny Abbott some of his more outrageous policies like increase uni fees and the bizarre parental scheme.
09:28pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4530 posts
Looking at the senate results, can anyone tell me why it looks like there's no coalition candidates in NSW/Vic?
09:40pm 07/09/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17430 posts
looks like rudd is keeping his seat.
09:44pm 07/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1033 posts
Fpot it was less then well put but vash's graph puts greece at the top of both graphs. that is high debt, low growth.
09:47pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10116 posts
Bloody good speech, very well said and hopefully we can get Labor in soon enough!
10:03pm 07/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37330 posts
well, I look forward to the forward thinking, business-centric libertarian utopia I was promised by infi
10:03pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11137 posts
10:07pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10697 posts
Abbott is now speaking on ABC1

ALL HAIL KING TONY !
10:12pm 07/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11139 posts
10:14pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14381 posts
10:14pm 07/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23311 posts
Fpot it was less then well put but vash's graph puts greece at the top of both graphs. that is high debt, low growth.
The graph showed that Australia has an acceptable level of debt and is managing it well. That was the point. Greece has an out of control debt that is literally plunging their country into ruin. The LNP and the Murdoch media have somehow convinced the public we are in some sort of similar scenario. It's worrying that even just a cursory glance at reality shows that this isn't the case. Now this economically sound government will implement unneeded austerity measures and oh, an incredibly expensive maternal leave system for some reason.
10:22pm 07/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8740 posts
Where's that graphic about how democracy doesn't work and must be abolished..

Clearly the vast majority of Australians don't support K-Ruddles or the ALP. If they were as great and wonderful as proclaimed to be, we'd have photoshopped images of Kevin instead of Tony being posted. Tony and the LNP is the reality for the next few years (barring any double dissolution or other shenanigans).
10:27pm 07/09/13 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2056 posts
well, I look forward to the forward thinking, business-centric libertarian utopia I was promised by infi

Oh I'm sure any problems that the LNP government have from this point on is because of what they had to take from the previous gov and because of Labor or Greens somehow.

One thing I don't understand is Australia's apparent hard on to get back in to surplus. Our debt isn't that bad by any standards and our economy is doing pretty good compared to other countries.
10:27pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10117 posts
Heh, this is funny. Also apparently Hanson is set to get a senate seat?!

https://twitter.com/campricenews/status/376294452077133824/photo/1
10:33pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14229 posts
The best part is about ol Mate Clive, I look forward to further antics by him.
10:37pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10698 posts
9pm: CLIVE'S MELTDOWN:

Eccentric billionaire Clive Palmer will be heading to Canberra too -- he has clinched his seat of Fairfax.

He rocked up to an interview with Channel 7 wearing something resembling pyjamas in order to give us this small compilation of memorable quotes.

On whether the Titanic will continue:

"They all continue of course. The constitution of this country never envisaged the public service lived to cradle to grave in Parliament House in Canberra removed from the people.

On the content of his character

"You don't need to judge someone on how much money they've got, it's the content of their character that matters."

On a potential conflict of interest...

"I've got more money than you can ever dream of. What's the conflict of interest?"


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/the-sizzle-our-live-coverage-of-the-best-bits-of-election-2013/story-e6frfkp9-1226714061070#ixzz2eD4mEDZ0
10:37pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20486 posts
well, I look forward to the forward thinking, business-centric libertarian utopia I was promised by infi


now if we can just get a senate that will allow carbon tax to be removed...
10:38pm 07/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10699 posts
don't worry infi,
If this Senate doesn't respect the Coalitions MANDATE to repeal the Carbon Tax...

We'll make a new one.
10:44pm 07/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20487 posts
The best part is about ol Mate Clive, I look forward to further antics by him.


only in queensland
10:54pm 07/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1530 posts
Grats to the very greedy and racist people of Australia. Wear your label of shame with pride......


Although I will say NBN co has enough monies to fund FTTH up until 2018 (inclusive) and the new government can't take it away....
10:58pm 07/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4424 posts
I've stocked up on 56K modems. If anyone wants one to use on the coalitions NBN hit me up.

I knew it was a good investment!
11:14pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7975 posts
Heh

11:48pm 07/09/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4288 posts
oh god here we go
12:11am 08/09/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22122 posts
I've stocked up on 56K modems. If anyone wants one to use on the coalitions NBN hit me up.

I knew it was a good investment!

strangely enough, i still have my 56k modem. Not sure why I've hung onto it but it's there in a drawer. waiting.
12:13am 08/09/13 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3528 posts
Commence reducing the number of boats by stimulating the boat building sector of the Indonesian economy!
01:33am 08/09/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4502 posts
So infi when should we expect a total halt to boat arrivals? Have you got a date for us?
02:21am 08/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
474 posts
It feels so weird having a competent government. I simply cant believe we have a government elect that doesbn't lie, that doesnt cheat, that doesn't spin. It almost feels not right. hahaha

Bring on the golden era of good government once again. It's time to commence operation sovereign borders. Australia is once again open for business,
02:47am 08/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2243 posts
Rudd not quitting politics?

Soap opera continues...
03:10am 08/09/13 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9888 posts
We're f***ed.
03:24am 08/09/13 Permalink
hast2
UK
1288 posts
cambell newman's 'aggressive and destructive' cuts in his first budget was actually an increase in government outlays of around 1% over 2011/2012. so the queensland government increases the amount of money they spend and everyone screams blue murder over savage cuts. then in 2013/2014 we have an increase of spending of 4% over 2012/2013. this is the painful effect of government debt. everyone expects spending on services to be the same, tax rates to be the same, and debtholders to be paid but at some point in time one or all of these groups expectations are going be broken.
03:53am 08/09/13 Permalink
hast2
UK
1289 posts
it is also unfair to put 100% of the blame for public service job losses on campbell newman. what if the next queensland government over its term in office increased government spending by 100% and doubled the size of the public service. however, they also did not increase revenues and as a result completely destroyed queensland's credit rating. the next government is elected promising to return government spending to the original amount over its term. are the resulting massive job losses the fault of the new government or the old government that irresponsibly increased the size of the public service? if this increase of the public service did not happen most of these people would have been otherwise gainfully employed and wouldn't be worrying about losing their jobs and having to find a new one. responsibility for job losses has to be shared between those that expanded the public sector and also those that reduced the public sector.
04:38am 08/09/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2244 posts
Shhh Hast - you're supposed to follow the mob and bemoan austerity measures.

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE!!!!?!?!
04:41am 08/09/13 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3327 posts
So where do we get put a list for opting out of the net filter?
05:28am 08/09/13 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5849 posts
I've stocked up on 56K modems. If anyone wants one to use on the coalitions NBN hit me up.

I knew it was a good investment!
Knew that 14 slot modem bank I brought from greysonline would come in useful
07:37am 08/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4212 posts
cambell newman's 'aggressive and destructive' cuts in his first budget was actually an increase in government outlays of around 1% over 2011/2012. so the queensland government increases the amount of money they spend and everyone screams blue murder over savage cuts. then in 2013/2014 we have an increase of spending of 4% over 2012/2013. this is the painful effect of government debt. everyone expects spending on services to be the same, tax rates to be the same, and debtholders to be paid but at some point in time one or all of these groups expectations are going be broken.



yeah the reason there was an increase in spending was for all the payouts to the public servants, all the mates of the lnp spending on bulls*** audits of blame, and the cost of filling rehiring laid off people because they found they lack staff in some areas!!


also, not sure if anyone noticed but the promised lnp budget surplus was only 1bn more the labors promised, and but magic we will earn/save 1bn when the boats stop?, I really dont think any of the budgeting will be close to what was promised, and we'll be not better off,
08:18am 08/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10118 posts
Australia is once again open for business,
Wait I thought that wasn't the goal of the Liberal government? Thought they wanted to cleanse the border and close it down to anyone who is in danger within their home?

Also my Internet is acting up, going like molasses since last night. Have they already started turning back to dial up?
08:48am 08/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8741 posts
Did not see four horsemen riding through the streets this morning or a return to burning witches and gays at the stake.

VERY DISAPPOINT
09:02am 08/09/13 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
965 posts
Also my Internet is acting up, going like molasses since last night. Have they already started turning back to dial up?


Heh I had the same idea this morning when everything was loading like 10x slower than normal.

My mum worked the booths again this year and she said she noticed a significant increase in the amount of people who either left the sheet blank, wrote "Who f*****g cares?", or drew something (most often a penis) instead of filling out the form.

She actually got one that had a porno stuffed inside it o.0

Seems like voter apathy levels were pretty high.
09:13am 08/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14232 posts
OF Course!! I have the perfect solution to the boat people issue.

As each boat hits Australian waters, capture it and tie it to another one. Than continue to do that for every boat. Then, when you have 100 of these together you have yourself a floating village. Be generous though, give them solar panels and basic desalination equipment and fishing poles.

Over 10 years the village will turn into a City of boat people, real boat people. Heck there would even be a generation of children born on and raised on the boats, the TRUE BOAT PEOPLE.

Vote 1 Toll.
09:24am 08/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14233 posts

Bring on the golden era of good government once again.


We shall see, also no points are given for government taking credit where credit isn't due, in other words from outside influences or from policies that were set in place years ago that are only coming into fruition now. To be fair, the same shouldn't be used against the current government (and it should not have been used against the previous government).
09:28am 08/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36458 posts
its f***ed, we're f***ed, im leaving.
09:35am 08/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6008 posts
It feels so weird having a competent government. I simply cant believe we have a government elect that doesbn't lie, that doesnt cheat, that doesn't spin. It almost feels not right. hahahaBring on the golden era of good government once again. It's time to commence operation sovereign borders. Australia is once again open for business,

It's day 2 of the new government. They've havent doen anything yet...
09:46am 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18710 posts
doesn't matter bro, they are going to be the best thing ever

regardless of how bad might end up being, they can just blame the previous government
09:49am 08/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10119 posts
It's day 2 of the new government. They've havent doen anything yet...

Please Greazy, don't be so reasonable. Didn't you get the memo, Tony is our new messiah who will bring us back to the greatest times of Australia, the 1950's! Long have we forgotten what it was like to not have women's rights, competent technology and open borders to those in dire needs.

Also has Murdoch, our one true speaker of all knowledge, given his views on this new leader? Hath he broaden us with a full front page claiming victory? And why is everyone getting up Rudd for his speech being "too long" when everyone was clamoring to hear about it?
09:49am 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7976 posts
Don't worry, we have a journalist with no experience doing anything useful in government, who has the same party name as the group that were in government during the last Chinese boom and Howard era high tax levels, so that will make the Chinese boom and Howard era high tax levels come back.
10:23am 08/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4425 posts
As each boat hits Australian waters, capture it and tie it to another one. Than continue to do that for every boat. Then, when you have 100 of these together you have yourself a floating village. Be generous though, give them solar panels and basic desalination equipment and fishing poles.

Over 10 years the village will turn into a City of boat people, real boat people. Heck there would even be a generation of children born on and raised on the boats, the TRUE BOAT PEOPLE.


We've already got the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, we could tow that in and they can also scavenge for recycling $$. We should form a party next election Toll!

10:24am 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20488 posts
3 years of plague and pestilence... Buy gold.
10:29am 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7977 posts
3 years of plague and pestilence... Buy gold.

Well actually, during the last coalition government Costello sold Australia's gold reserves for ~$306.00 an ounce (which now sells for about $1,300 to $1,750 an ounce) in their 'sell everything' strategy...

http://www.australian-gold.com/blog/the-australian-revisits-the-costello-curse/
10:39am 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20489 posts
Thanks captain hindsight, what's your point? Gold has gone up in price due to all of the global stimulus money printing. No one could have foreseen that. Most other countries had been reducing their gold inventories over the same period and only started accumulating gold once again post 2008.
10:44am 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7978 posts
That the selling off of assets which propped up the Howard 'surplus' just left a budget with spending commitments which could not be paid for, and resulted in some really bad deals for Australians (but ohmygod they are perfect masters at money and would never make such massive mistakes, only labor does that).
10:48am 08/09/13 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
516 posts
Whining Labor supporters ... really showing Australia's elite mentality.

Wonder if those last few words have ever been strung together before?
10:51am 08/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
475 posts
It's day 2 of the new government. They've havent doen anything yet...


Sorry what? Kevin Rudd is still our Prime Minister and will be until the new government is sworn in. Also the election was last night, not 2 days ago. Nice counting.

I am still in disbelief that we ACTUALLY have an incoming competent government, this feels like a dream.

Whining Labor supporters ... really showing Australia's elite mentality.Wonder if those last few words have ever been strung together before?


I'v never seen so much butthurt in my life. The funniest thing is that most of them still actually believe Labor was a good government...........
11:03am 08/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4215 posts
Thanks captain hindsight, what's your point? Gold has gone up in price due to all of the global stimulus money printing. No one could have foreseen that. Most other countries had been reducing their gold inventories over the same period and only started accumulating gold once again post 2008.



his point is that selling assets isn't the best way to get out of debt

long term assests like land, housing and gold have all increased long term
11:13am 08/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10120 posts
Please explain how they were "bad" in any sense? I still have a job, Australia is still plotting along nicely and hell isn't coming down from the skies so I'm not quite sure that Australia was as bad as the Coalition were claiming?

I know Australia wanted a change, that was pretty clear last night. Who knows how Abbott and his party will lead, what their policies will do to this country and how many lives are going to be affected because of this change. Who knows if it will be good for Australia, and whether their cutting spree will help or hinder the future of Australia. This is the best part of democracy, citizens get to choose the future of their country and so we will have to wait and see.

Though to be fair, if Coalition screw up everyone will be out for blood.
11:15am 08/09/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21104 posts
I am still in disbelief that we ACTUALLY have an incoming fear-mongering, homophobic, backwards thinking luddite government with a 1950's style view of equality, this feels like a dream.

It is what it is though I guess, just have to look forwards to the next election when a new generation of progressive thinking young people are allowed to vote, hopefully thats enough to swing the needle back to something less embarassing.
11:17am 08/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10166 posts
Though to be fair, if Coalition screw up everyone will be out for blood.

Nah they have at least 6 years, they will blame the previous government and a hostile senate for any woes.
11:22am 08/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4426 posts
It feels so weird having a competent government. I simply cant believe we have a government elect that doesbn't lie, that doesnt cheat, that doesn't spin. It almost feels not right. hahaha

Bring on the golden era of good government once again. It's time to commence operation sovereign borders. Australia is once again open for business,


I am still in disbelief that we ACTUALLY have an incoming competent government, this feels like a dream.


Good thing you don't froth.
11:32am 08/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6009 posts
Please Greazy, don't be so reasonable. Didn't you get the memo, Tony is our new messiah who will bring us back to the greatest times of Australia, the 1950's! Long have we forgotten what it was like to not have women's rights, competent technology and open borders to those in dire needs.Also has Murdoch, our one true speaker of all knowledge, given his views on this new leader? Hath he broaden us with a full front page claiming victory? And why is everyone getting up Rudd for his speech being "too long" when everyone was clamoring to hear about it?

Yeah we get it eorl, you hate Abbot/Liberals. Your constant sarcasm is getting old and grating.
I'v never seen so much butthurt in my life. The funniest thing is that most of them still actually believe Labor was a good government...........

Apologies, I don't know THAT much about politics. My comment is still valid though, you believe they're competent != actual competency. In a years time we can look back and maybe then argue about this again.
11:49am 08/09/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6507 posts
I agree that the Coalition NBN is very backward but just because they wont pass a law to allow pinko's to get married is that really 'homophobic'?

I'm actually for gays being able to marry because homosexuality or marriage doesn't bother me - each to his own. What does bother me is that has been used as a diversion by both parties so they don't have to talk about serious issues such as Australia's manufacturing recession, growing unemployment, unaffordable housing caused by Negative Gearing.

11:50am 08/09/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6422 posts
I went down the street this morning to get a coffee. Not one f*****g boat in site. Tonys plan must be working already.
11:53am 08/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14382 posts
just because they wont pass a law to allow pinko's to get married is that really 'homophobic'

I got nothing here. Quote will do.
What does bother me is that has been used as a diversion by both parties so they don't have to talk about serious issues such as Australia's manufacturing recession, growing unemployment, unaffordable housing caused by Negative Gearing.

STAHP THE BOATRTTSS!!
11:54am 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20490 posts
Boats are a major problem. Look at the horrendous traffic on our roads.
11:58am 08/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14383 posts
Boats are a major problem. Look at the horrendous traffic on our roads.

Haha you must be a in a good mood this morning to trot that out.

WP Coalition, don't f*** it all up.
12:00pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10700 posts
STOP THE VOTES


A RECORD number of Australians appear to have cast an informal vote in the federal election. Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) spokesman Phil Diak says the informal vote appears to have risen from 5.5 per cent in 2010 to 5.9 per cent this year.


http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/informal-vote-up-to-almost-6-per-cent-aec/story-e6frfku9-1226714577670

A few members of the Coalition cabinet are in favour of removing Compulsory Voting, is it time for a change ?
I didn't vote yesterday.
12:02pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20491 posts
I put a stupid bet on that informal vote would be between 5 and 6%. Wtf

You are so scathing of Rudd and Gillard Faceman and yet you didn't vote. Why?
12:07pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
10121 posts
Yeah we get it eorl, you hate Abbot/Liberals. Your constant sarcasm is getting old and grating.
I don't necessarily hate the Liberal party, more so just hate the head of that party. I'd be happy for Turnbull to lead and probably would have voted for him if he had of, as I agree with a fair few of their policies when it comes to economical management (in some regards). Don't worry though, I'll probably be leaving the comments now as its pretty clear what Australia wants and we'll see how it plays out.
12:08pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
517 posts
The head of the party is trivial ... you do realize how quickly they were able to out Rudd and then bring him back in, right? This isn't America. We aren't voting for a mighty president. You vote for the party, not the person in Australia.

I agree that your comments are grating. Discussing politics is a sure way to make people hate you. You're probably young, so one day you'll see why I barely often an opinion at all these days. Or maybe you won't. Who knows, we'll see how it plays out.
12:14pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14384 posts
Think I found Door/SheerObesity?

http://video.news.com.au/2404739340

HE'S SO EXCITED ABOUT NEW GOVERNMENT!
12:16pm 08/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6010 posts
The head of the party is trivial ... you do realize how quickly they were able to out Rudd and then bring him back in, right? This isn't America. We aren't voting for a mighty president. You vote for the party, not the person in Australia.I agree that your comments are grating. Discussing politics is a sure way to make people hate you. You're probably young, so one day you'll see why I barely often an opinion at all these days. Or maybe you won't. Who knows, we'll see how it plays out.

How old are you? You sound like a crusty old f***. <3
12:18pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8117 posts
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2952123442.png
The promise and hope of this for everyone was good while it lasted :(
12:30pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10701 posts
I don't like Compulsory Voting, Government has no power to force you to vote.
Its Tyranny.

I guess my views are similar to the Free Man Movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land

12:30pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8118 posts
A few members of the Coalition cabinet are in favour of removing Compulsory Voting, is it time for a change ?
I didn't vote yesterday.


I'm absolutely dead against the idea of removing compulsory voting. I think the system as it stands is fine, and at best it could do with a very slight tweak. I think the idea that you need to get checked off that you have exercised your right to vote is what we should be expecting in Australia - if we were to remove 'compulsory' voting, at most it should be via a box which says "I do not wish to contribute a vote to this election" - that you should still be required to attend a voting place and be marked off as having made a decision not to vote.

I do not believe that asking people to vote a few times every few years (council, state, federal) is much to ask for citizenship.

In fact, what I saw at the polling booths yesterday - husbands standing over wives almost as though they're forcing their partners to vote a particular way they agree with - would be further exaggerated if we allowed people to not vote by not turning up, as you'd get people pressured or held back from voting and unwilling to report this going on.
12:34pm 08/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4427 posts
Think I found Door/SheerObesity?


Ha ha yeah I watched that's this morning. He got up there easily.

Go door/sheer/possum you good thing.
12:35pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14234 posts
Faceman Didn't vote? Cool you no longer have the ability to complain about any government action until you do. Not without being a massive hypocrite anyway.
12:47pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
364 posts
I'm absolutely dead against the idea of removing compulsory voting. I think the system as it stands is fine, and at best it could do with a very slight tweak. I think the idea that you need to get checked off that you have exercised your right to vote is what we should be expecting in Australia - if we were to remove 'compulsory' voting, at most it should be via a box which says "I do not wish to contribute a vote to this election" - that you should still be required to attend a voting place and be marked off as having made a decision not to vote.


Pretty much what I think. Either make voting non compulsory or give people the choice to express their dissatisfaction with all options by actually being able to formally say "no party is worthy of my vote". It's easier than turning up, writing "D*******s" on the voting slip and drawing lines to the names of the Labor and Liberal representatives while leaving all the boxes blank.
01:00pm 08/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
476 posts
Think I found Door/SheerObesity?http://video.news.com.au/2404739340HE'S SO EXCITED ABOUT NEW GOVERNMENT!


They didn't really need to tackle me i just wanted a quick chat and a photo. Yes i shouldn't have been up there, but i was excited for our new competent government.
01:06pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10703 posts
Faceman Didn't vote? Cool you no longer have the ability to complain about any government action until you do. Not without being a massive hypocrite anyway.


force me to vote or
take away my right to criticise the government ?
you should be ashamed of that.
01:18pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20492 posts
With non-compulsory voting, the onus is then on the parties to persuade a voter to vote for them instead of as is currently the case, voters simply voting for the least worst to avoid a fine.
01:21pm 08/09/13 Permalink
pjano
97 posts
its f***ed, we're f***ed, im leaving.


Haha spook has to leave now, will be interesting to see where you go
01:24pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14385 posts
With non-compulsory voting, the onus is then on the parties to persuade a voter to vote for them instead of as is currently the case, voters simply voting for the least worst to avoid a fine.

Informal voting is increasing making the whole thing more of a farce.
01:33pm 08/09/13 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
966 posts
Personally, I still havn't registered to vote.

Firstly, I don't own a car and I can't be f***ed walking for 30 minutes to the local polling booths (30 mins both ways, that is).

Secondly, Until recently I havn't given a single s*** about politics because it's generally just douche VS turd sandwich.

Thirdly, the tired old "My vote won't change anything". I'm not going to waste half a day on my weekend to go and vote when it won't actually matter in the big picture.

*shrug* call me lazy. Won't stop me complaining about politics though.
01:33pm 08/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37331 posts
With non-compulsory voting, the onus is then on the parties to persuade a voter to vote for them instead of as is currently the case, voters simply voting for the least worst to avoid a fine.
with compulsory voting, crazy interest groups or rich people can more easily leverage government by incentivising within their groups or using vast sums of money.

There's little actual evidence to show one is a "better" option than the other; it's possible to poke holes in both sides. i don't feel like it imposes unduly on my liberty to be required to participate in maintaining it.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
01:36pm 08/09/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6011 posts
I prefer the other D,

Dictatorship!

But seriously, if democracy is the worst then what is better? Unless I'm misunderstanding and you actually mean democracy is the worst but it works.
02:09pm 08/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37332 posts
I prefer the other D,Dictatorship!But seriously, if democracy is the worst then what is better? Unless I'm misunderstanding and you actually mean democracy is the worst but it works.
It is a Churchill quote
02:11pm 08/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23312 posts
But seriously, if democracy is the worst then what is better?
http://i.imgur.com/DIicSIU.jpg
02:12pm 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18712 posts
Thirdly, the tired old "My vote won't change anything". I'm not going to waste half a day on my weekend to go and vote when it won't actually matter in the big picture


so what if the other 15 million of us all thought the same thing?
02:56pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10706 posts
If nobody voted then the Election would become void and the current Government would remain in caretaker mode until another government could be formed, most likely by another Election (where hopefully someone would turn up to vote) or I think the GG can direct one of the Leaders to form a Government, the GG still heads the Government even if there isn't one.
03:03pm 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18713 posts
(it was a rhetorical question to point out how retarded that mentality is facey)

but thanks for that
03:09pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Lynx
Brisbane, Queensland
2062 posts
Personally, I still havn't registered to vote.Firstly, I don't own a car and I can't be f***ed walking for 30 minutes to the local polling booths (30 mins both ways, that is).Secondly, Until recently I havn't given a single s*** about politics because it's generally just douche VS turd sandwich.Thirdly, the tired old "My vote won't change anything". I'm not going to waste half a day on my weekend to go and vote when it won't actually matter in the big picture.*shrug* call me lazy. Won't stop me complaining about politics though.

You and the other half a million others who haven't enrolled wouldn't make the slightest difference in the polls.
03:11pm 08/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23313 posts
So we have instant precedent with the LNP's NBN and their paid parental leave that no policy is too stupid or ill-thought out for this political party. I was just trying to think of other comedy policies that could possibly come up during their term. One that came to mind is relaxing gun restrictions. Is there any possibility of that do you reckon?
03:26pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20493 posts
What about the whacky Tropo Tax for Darwin?
03:36pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10708 posts
I think those who don't want Women to paid what they are worth clearly have an issue with Women who make more money than they do.
98% of Women earn less than $100 000
I doubt we will see an avalanche of Women taking the money.

I think it also encourages young Women to aim high and not worry about pregnancy terminating their career and lifestyle.
03:40pm 08/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23314 posts
Oh there are heaps of silly policies to choose from bro but I thought for the sake of brevity I should just keep it to two.
03:49pm 08/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8742 posts
Half a day to vote? I think you're doing it wrong.. Took like 5 minutes tops and I got a pig in blanket.
03:55pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8119 posts
98% of Women earn less than $100 000

Pft, it wouldn't be a much higher percentage of men making more than that either.
In australia, the '99%' mark is $190,000. As in, only 1% of the population earn over $190,000.
We have a very flat bell shaped curve in Australia.
04:23pm 08/09/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6424 posts
buy gold

buy bitcoin
04:23pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7979 posts
I think those who don't want Women to paid what they are worth clearly have an issue with Women who make more money than they do.

And that's because you can only think in ridiculous rhetorical cliches when people disagree with you.
04:32pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10710 posts
ever dated a chick that made more money than you Nerfy ?
05:13pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7980 posts
I don't know if I'd call the on and off again thing with your mother 'dating' exactly.
05:29pm 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18714 posts
I do facey, what is your point?

As a wise man once put it "breed on your own coin"
05:38pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36460 posts
i wish my missus made more money than i did
06:07pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20494 posts
mine does. it feels good because every time I spend money it's actually mostly hers.
06:27pm 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18715 posts
Hi5 bro
06:55pm 08/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
477 posts
bring on the swearing in! Lets get down to business
07:11pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20495 posts
I want to find out

a) who will be the star studded cabinet lineup for the Coalition and

b) who will lead the broken and depressed ALP.
07:27pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7981 posts
I want to find outa) who will be the star studded cabinet lineup for the Coalition

It's going to be headed by an ex-journalist with no business or remotely regular employment experience, who had to mortgage his house when his income dropped from front bencher to opposition which is still in the top percent of all australian incomes, who struggles with credible science when it's not compatible with his pre-decided answers derived from political ideologies, definitely starting with a "star" there laaaaawl.
07:42pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14235 posts
Faceman still in this thread? The man didn't vote, he had a chance to have his say and chose not to take it, perhaps spend your time at the NRL tipping thread since you have no input to this government for the next 3 years or so.
07:45pm 08/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4432 posts
Time to lock this thread and open the next chapter.

Post Apocalypse Thread.
07:46pm 08/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18716 posts
His nrl and sport knowledge in general is about as credible
07:47pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
2057 posts
Were all f***ed now.
07:58pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10711 posts
Don't worry Paveway, Im sure the ALP are just in a rebuilding phase.
08:15pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14236 posts
It isn't about credibility, to be honest Faceman had a fairly OK grasp on the situation here. However he turned away having a valid opinion on this next government as he chose not to vote, for shame.
08:23pm 08/09/13 Permalink
pjano
99 posts
struggles with credible science when it's not compatible with his pre-decided answers derived from political ideologies, definitely starting with a "star" there laaaaawl.


So you think it's a good idea to push up co2 emissions with a tax? May as well tax you for breathing. You do realise that the air was once100% co2 right? I tried to point out that's it's not a simple case of x causes y therefore reduce x.

Here's a website that actually has peer reviewed articles from 2013 http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/05/14/co2-nears-400-ppm-relax-its-not-global-warming-end-times-but-only-a-big-yawn-climate-depot-special-report/
08:38pm 08/09/13 Permalink
jum
Queensland
678 posts
ryan is such a safe liberal electorate so i went with my standard voting method and drew a giant d*** on the green paper. then i voted above the line for the palmer united comedy senate option because i cbf numbering wikileaks/pirate party/sex party and all the other independents i would rather support
08:47pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7982 posts
Ignoring Door Jr's now-obvious trolling,

Faceman which scientists predicted an "Ice Free Arctic by 2013"? :/ The only thing that I could find was predicting a higher rate of ice coverage this year, but a dropping trend http://www.livescience.com/39147-arctic-sea-ice-melting.html

The Arctic is losing about 30,000 square miles (78,000 square kilometers) — an area roughly equivalent to the state of Maine — of sea ice each year, NASA scientists say. And while ice cover at the North Pole has rebounded from last year's record-setting lows, Arctic sea ice continues to retreat and thin at an alarming pace.

In 2012, the ice cap over the Arctic Ocean shrank to its lowest extent ever recorded. Measures of sea ice extent take into account the area of the Arctic Ocean on which ice covers at least 15 percent of the surface. This year's summer melting season is unlikely to break that record, but that does not necessarily herald good news, said Walt Meier, a glaciologist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

"This is not going to be as extreme a year as last year, but we're still seeing a strong downward trend," Meier told LiveScience. "We're still at levels that are much lower than average."


One single scientist predicted in the 2050's that sea ice might drop very low - http://phys.org/news/2013-08-ice-free-arctic-2050s.html

---

In unrelated news.

09:04pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Hybr|d
Brisbane, Queensland
921 posts
I completely reject that article cited. The concept of stimulus is total nonsense. Japan, US and Europe all tried it and it has done absolutely nothing.


As much as I like to agree with you infi how can you make statements like this that are factually wrong.

Still, the expansion fell short of analysts’ expectations for Japan, whose economy grew at a robust pace of 3.8 percent in the previous quarter, helped by the Abe government’s monetary and fiscal stimulus drive.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/business/global/economic-expansion-slows-down-in-japan.html?_r=0

There are plenty of other examples for Europe as well.
09:06pm 08/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20496 posts
Still, the expansion fell short of analysts’ expectations for Japan, whose economy grew at a robust pace of 3.8 percent in the previous quarter, helped by the Abe government’s monetary and fiscal stimulus drive.


Japan has been engaged in stimulus spending since the 90s. Their economy is bound to turn a corner at some point. Attributing it to stimulus is just silly.

Look at Japan's debt % of GDP...

ryan is such a safe liberal electorate so i went with my standard voting method and drew a giant d*** on the green paper. then i voted above the line for the palmer united comedy senate option because i cbf numbering wikileaks/pirate party/sex party and all the other independents i would rather support


In the booth I worked at one voter placed another box below all of the candidates, marked it one and inserted the name: "Muthaf*** s*** c*** d*** suck f***"

I should have happy snapped it
09:08pm 08/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23315 posts
So you think it's a good idea to push up co2 emissions with a tax? May as well tax you for breathing. You do realise that the air was once100% co2 right? I tried to point out that's it's not a simple case of x causes y therefore reduce x.

Here's a website that actually has peer reviewed articles from 2013 http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/05/14/co2-nears-400-ppm-relax-its-not-global-warming-end-times-but-only-a-big-yawn-climate-depot-special-report/

Hate to say this but you've been scammed
haha, that website cites the Daily Mail. Credible!

Hey pjano, did you know that the Earth was once a big ball of flaming gas before it formed into a planet? Just as relevant as that thing you mentioned for some reason!

We needed another science denying retard, and you are a special one who tried to posture himself as some sort of scientific person with that whole I read scientific papers charade. Hey pjano, I am gonna let you in on a little secret, I think you might have been lying about that.
09:19pm 08/09/13 Permalink
pjano
57 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: boring
Send Private Message
09:24pm 08/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
248 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: boring
Send Private Message
09:39pm 08/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
7151 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: boring
Send Private Message
10:03pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10713 posts
10:41pm 08/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7983 posts
So I take it that you're just going to ignore the question faceman?

Again, which scientists predicted an ice free arctic by 2013?

(Also, lol)
10:47pm 08/09/13 Permalink
jum
Queensland
679 posts
11:43pm 08/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10714 posts
Make another thread if you want to discuss Socialist Science Nerfy.

Im looking forward to Direct Action.
Who doesn't like Trees ? (apart from fake environmentalists)
01:09am 09/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23317 posts
haha, the LNP party, the picture of competence.

Thank god at least he wasn't elected.
01:15am 09/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
479 posts
Refusing to admit defeat on a close count, wow how incompetent......................
01:29am 09/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23318 posts
Watch the video dumbshoes.
02:06am 09/09/13 Permalink
pjano
101 posts
We needed another science denying retard


so ironic that you call me a science denying retard when you shrug off the papers I posted. I am done with you, how do I add you to my ignore list?
07:44am 09/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7984 posts
Make another thread if you want to discuss Socialist Science Nerfy.

You're the one who talked about it....... Then you have a go at others when they ask for evidence that you're not just making s*** up... Slippery.
07:46am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3835 posts
looks like the liberals are going to have a very bad time passing policy through this tasty looking senate. haha.
08:46am 09/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37333 posts
ryan is such a safe liberal electorate so i went with my standard voting method and drew a giant d*** on the green paper. then i voted above the line for the palmer united comedy senate option because i cbf numbering wikileaks/pirate party/sex party and all the other independents i would rather support
thank you for taking such great care with your vote

just kidding, treating it like its a joke so you can get a couple cheap laughs when you tell people what you did isn't so awesome after all
08:58am 09/09/13 Permalink
pjano
102 posts
the main reason we should be reducing CO2 is to stop ocean acidification, temperature rise causes an increase of CO2 release
09:01am 09/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37335 posts
OK, lets not talk any more about climate change. If you want to do that, please start another thread, so I can lock it because its too boring for words.
09:06am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3836 posts
Agreed with troggles. Believe 97% of the worlds climate scientists or faceman? You decide.

I'm curious about what implications this balance of power in the senate will have for the libs. I think Abbott's poor negotiation skills will be a challenge for him to pass policy.
09:15am 09/09/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8743 posts

thank you for taking such great care with your vote


In contrast I had a friend talk to each of the leaflet handing out people and ask about the issues affecting her (environment mostly) and what their party policy is on it. Armed with that information she made an informed vote.

Unfortunate that the approach she took is so out of ordinary when compared with drawing d**** and "WHY BOTHER" across the voting paper..
09:17am 09/09/13 Permalink
jum
Queensland
680 posts
if they remove compulsory voting i'll happily stay home and not draw d**** on papers

being forced to take a small amount of my time to vote once every few years under threat of financial retribution? this is not democracy, this is tyranny!
09:45am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3837 posts
that's a huge inconvenience for you jum. What if you were called up for jury duty? It's a citizen's responsibility to vote and to participate in the justice of criminals in our court system.

I'd gladly take an extremely small amount of time out of my every day life to express my beliefs & opinions in the electoral and court system.

If you dont care to do the same then it's best you escape to America, land under the illusion of "free"
09:50am 09/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1034 posts
Am I missing something with the senate?

It looks like the coalition are on track for 33 of 76 seats, with 7 senators unaffiliated with the greens or labour. I don't think the LNP is going to struggle to get one of those senators to vote with them on any given issue.
09:55am 09/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37336 posts
if they remove compulsory voting i'll happily stay home and not draw d**** on papers

being forced to take a small amount of my time to vote once every few years under threat of financial retribution? this is not democracy, this is tyranny!
It is the (tiny, insignificant) cost you're asked to pay to help ensure an outcome for you and your fellow citizens that best reflects the makeup of our society.

I believe in civil liberties and personal freedom wherever possible, but I'm prepared to sacrifice some of my time for the citizens I share the country with so that my views are represented.

I find it bizarre that there are just no issues that people care about enough to do it properly. Saying "it's a safe seat" is the catchcry of the lazy; unless you're out there making your voice heard then of course it will remain that way. If you agree with the incumbent then fine, but surely it behooves you to support them - and if you disagree then it is utter madness to not support another candidate.

(I often wonder how much of this is some weird psychological artifact where people simply don't want to have to vote for someone they feel is going to lose - they want to mentally identify with being on the "winning side" so there's some weird sort of snowball effect in situations like this.)

Anyway, I can't judge too harshly - I was cavalier about voting when I was younger (though never fake-voted). I look back at myself with shame because of how little I paid attention to who I was voting for.
09:56am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3838 posts

Am I missing something with the senate?


Greens + Labor are 35 total, and there will be a few left leaning independents as well, and Palmer candidates which lean right. I think it'll be tight on the votes.
10:05am 09/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6286 posts
It is the (tiny, insignificant) cost you're asked to pay to help ensure an outcome for you and your fellow citizens that best reflects the makeup of our society.


If you ask the AEC officials, they might tell you our society appears to be made up of nascent artists with a predilection for the human phallus.
10:06am 09/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1035 posts
Yeah Maybe, but Green and Labor have a rocky relationship right now. I wouldn't count them as voting block just yet. Also at least in Victoria the car guy has right leaning tendencies. The guy in NSW is from the LDP which wants more free market capitalism.

It might not be clear cut but I wouldn't call it hostile to the LNP.
10:11am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3839 posts
The Greens will typically agree on Labor with voting against the removal of the carbon & mining taxes, which will certainly be a first of the few to show up when parliament sits.
Then Abbott's going to have to make alot of concession to the independents to get them to swing to their position, effectively a hung situation like before.

It's amazing Gillard got so much policy through with a hung parliament.
10:15am 09/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1036 posts
Yeah cause Palmer's such a fan of mining and carbon taxes. I don't think he is going to struggle there to be honest, at least once the new senate sits.
10:18am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3840 posts
Is there an easier way to find out who the "Other" seats belong to? 2 of them are with Palmer from what i can see.



An extraordinary mix of minor party senators appears set to be a fly in the ointment for the victorious Coalition despite the new government securing a solid lower house majority.

Instead of Labor and the Greens being able to form a blocking majority, the Abbott government must deal with the uncertainty of minor party senators, including one or perhaps two from the insurgent Palmer United Party, South Australian Nick Xenophon and an allied candidate, and potentially a Motoring Enthusiast Party senator from Victoria.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/senate-looms-as-an-obstacle-to-tony-abbott-20130907-2tcqu.html
10:24am 09/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37337 posts
If you ask the AEC officials, they might tell you our society appears to be made up of nascent artists with a predilection for the human phallus.
wait a minute

this explains everything

everyone was drawing d**** on the ballot

no wonder Abbott got in
10:30am 09/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1037 posts
ABC have a state by state breakdown which is pretty clear
10:37am 09/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14386 posts
Interesting new Senate. Abbott's not going to have an easy time, hopefully he silently loses his s*** at an upper house leftie or two, should be entertaining.
10:40am 09/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1038 posts
Yeah I really don't know.

Looking at the swing to the liberals in the lower house, it doesn't explain the wipe out.

But the senate is making a bit of sense.

The swing to independent parties was massive but not many independents in the lower house and a big clean up for liberal suggests to me that a decent segment of the population thinks Abbott isn't right wing enough, and has been elected by forced preference flows.

Left to the parties preference flows the senate has picked up large number of independents or 'others'. Seems pretty safe to say that PUP and the liberal democrats sit to the right of the LNP, I would be shocked if an independent for the sports enthusiast party in WA turns out to be left wing.

No way to know until they start voting I guess.
10:47am 09/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14387 posts
Very interesting to see if The Greens and ALP decide to block the carbon tax legislation, they're both obviously on side for it to remain.

Abbott's made some big calls about this (day 1 etc etc) so delaying until the new senate will be a bit of a downer for him ... but sending the people back the polls over it will piss off the voters and may not guarantee a senate favorable to the changes.
11:01am 09/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20497 posts
Abbott won't call a double dissolution election, it's all tough talk. No PM in their right mind would ever jeopardise their government over a single issue. Howard had multiple DD triggers.
11:05am 09/09/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3277 posts
PUP are not further right than LNP, they are pro welfare and I think Palmer is fairly socially liberal. Family First are definitely extreme right. I think if you go by the colour scheme blue and most of the white is right wing and anything else is more left. It'll be a pretty close Senate and Abbott will have to negotiate terms to get things through which he will be terrible at.

I'm pretty upset that I have to now apparently pay attention to the Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party and The Australian Sports party. How f*****g bogan can we get?
11:13am 09/09/13 Permalink
pjano
103 posts
Very interesting to see if The Greens and ALP decide to block the carbon tax legislation, they're both obviously on side for it to remain.


but the carbon tax is epic fail
11:31am 09/09/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10715 posts
Labor will dump the Carbon Tax.
The Public has said No to it.
Labor will never get elected with its Power Bill Tax.

Its over for that stuff.
The Greens vote fell by 25% this Election.
Of all the Partys they should have increased their vote because they finally got to share power with a Government in both houses and demonstrate their competence.
They need to go back to genuine Environmentalism.
11:31am 09/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
480 posts
Abbot should just bite the bullet and do a DD. Get rid of the Green/Labor balance of power alliance who obviously don't support mandates and don't support what the people want.
11:52am 09/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3841 posts
The senate is a representation of the people as well. the fact it is so close and doesn't have a coalition majority shows people are undecided.
a DD would just result in the same balance, perhaps Abbott losing more seats due to the inconvenience of going to the ballot again, but who knows, with enough money into the media's pockets they could blame this senate result on Labor too!

Also, FaceMan, supporting a Carbon tax is an environmentalist policy. Though i dont consider myself an environmentalist, i support a carbon tax.
11:57am 09/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1089 posts
Labor will dump the Carbon Tax.
The Public has said No to it.
Labor will never get elected with its Power Bill Tax.

Its over for that stuff.
The Greens vote fell by 25% this Election.
Of all the Partys they should have increased their vote because they finally got to share power with a Government in both houses and demonstrate their competence.
They need to go back to genuine Environmentalism.


What are you on about? Adam Bandt won his seat outright in Melbourne despite Liberal preferencing Labor and they picked up an extra Victorian senate seat.

There's a couple of seats still to be counted and they might get from 10 up to 12 seats in the senate.

Abbot should just bite the bullet and do a DD. Get rid of the Green/Labor balance of power alliance who obviously don't support mandates and don't support what the people want.


You are aware that people vote for the senate too?
12:12pm 09/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
134 posts
The abc is just a model based on everyone voting above the line. So it may not quite turn out that way depending on voting below the line. Still a lottery though

The Greens lost the protest vote to Palmer effectively. Which is fair enough as they spent the last 3 years trying to reposition themselves as a policy alternative and not a protest party. Some leakage of votes was inevitable. There was slight gains in many rural areas which was interesting.

Still hoping Mirabella loses Indi.
12:20pm 09/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2448 posts
Time to lock this thread and open the next chapter.

Post Apocalypse Thread.

As prev posted:
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/7079/4isi.jpg
12:27pm 09/09/13 Permalink
Zy
Gold Coast, Queensland
2239 posts
Can we all just be honest for a second and admit that the country probably WON'T see that many changes, and your lives will barely change at all?

Freaking drama queens.
12:40pm 09/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2449 posts