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Australian Federal Election 2013
Mordecai
Victoria
1591 posts
Stop the gay boats

The politically correct term is tug boats.
02:05pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23326 posts
That enter port via gay bars.
02:26pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7987 posts
Depends, a lot of economists were predicting that Abbott's implied policies (since he hadn't announced them, don't know what the re-assessment was) would drive Australia into recession. In the long run, climate challenges may not be dealt with either (the only mention of renewables in the Lib's new plans was an intention to launch another witchhunt into windmills by having another investigation into so called 'windtower disease').

What? Your crazy is showing.

Uh, which part? I was talking about -

Commentary like this, by Joseph Stiglitz (professor of economics at Columbia University and winner of the Nobel Prize in economics, however much that's worth), who said:

"In this election, the conservative side of politics has foreshadowed substantial cuts to the government budget. This would be a grave mistake, especially now.
Recent experience around the world suggests that austerity can have devastating consequences, and especially so for fragile economies. Government cuts have helped push Britain, Spain and Greece's economies deeper into recession and led to widespread public misery."


And this:
"The only other reference to the country’s $20bn renewable industry is the repeat of a promise made last December to hold yet another investigation into the health impacts of wind farms, and confirmation of a previously leaked commitment to require “real time” monitoring of wind turbine noise – a move that wind energy groups say would involve “crippling” costs."

(i.e. playing to the crazies like faceman and the people that they have misled)
02:28pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23327 posts
And this:
"The only other reference to the country’s $20bn renewable industry is the repeat of a promise made last December to hold yet another investigation into the health impacts of wind farms, and confirmation of a previously leaked commitment to require “real time” monitoring of wind turbine noise – a move that wind energy groups say would involve “crippling” costs."

(i.e. playing to the crazies like faceman and the people that they have misled)
Jesus christ. What a bunch of absolute muppets. What next? Are they going to research the cancer causing effects of mobile phones? How about the harmful radiation pouring out of your microwave? Did we really land on the moon?

I was going to start a Coalition Comedy Thread but was waiting until the first true bit of comedy policy was revealed. I thought I'd be waiting at least a week.
03:16pm 10/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
485 posts
I can almost feel the butthurt through my screen. Labor has lost Fpot, just cop it on the chin and move on.
03:27pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23330 posts
First of all, do you actually use the word 'butthurt' in real life because jesus christ if you do, awkward dude (what am I saying, the only person you'd talk to in real life is your mum).

I know reading things and understanding things isn't really your forte, but I am pretty sure I have dropped some pretty big hints that I don't like Labor. I guess if you are detecting some sort of anguish in my posts it's because our elected government is blowing money on researching the health impacts of wind turbines which is out of the ball park dumb.
03:34pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7988 posts
Regarding the electronic voting mentions earlier, Turnbull is pushing for voting machines -



Jesus christ. What a bunch of absolute muppets.

It is pretty upsetting.
03:35pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4504 posts
First of all, do you actually use the word 'butthurt' in real life because jesus christ if you do, awkward dude (what am I saying, the only person you'd talk to in real life is your mum).I know reading things and understanding things isn't really your forte, but I am pretty sure I have dropped some pretty big hints that I don't like Labor. I guess if you are detecting some sort of anguish in my posts it's because our elected government is blowing money on researching the health impacts of wind turbines which is out of the ball park dumb.



Mate why do you even respond to that childish dips***
04:25pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
107 posts
wind turbines make people depressed, it's an actual thing
05:30pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36477 posts
wind turbines make people depressed, it's an actual thing

they make paranoid people who dont believe in science depressed.
05:39pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
108 posts
it's the noise of it. Apparently it's like old fashion torture instrument lolz

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1452529/Wind-farms-make-people-sick-who-live-up-to-a-mile-away.html
05:51pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7989 posts
wind turbines make people depressed, it's an actual thing

I'm beginning to think that pjano is a plant to make pro-coalition people look stupid.

http://theconversation.com/wind-turbine-syndrome-a-classic-communicated-disease-8318

Wind farms have existed in Australia long before the first claims about health ever surfaced. The Ten Mile Lagoon wind farm near Esperance, Western Australia has been operational for 19 years. Victoria’s first, the Codrington wind farm, just celebrated its 11th birthday, and has 14 turbines each capable of producing 1.3 megawatts. And yet health complaints are relatively recent, with the few in Codrington post-dating a visit to the area by a vocal opponent, spreading anxiety.

In this sense, “wind turbine syndrome” (which incidentally produces zero returns from the United States National Library of Medicine’s 23 million research papers) is what we can call a “communicated” disease: it spreads via the nocebo effect by being talked about, and is thereby a strong candidate for being defined as a psychogenic condition.

The reviews conclude that pre-existing negative attitudes to wind farms are generally stronger predictors of annoyance than residential distance to the turbines or recorded levels of noise.

Sort of like the people who can "feel" wifi, then you randomly test them with wifi on/off and they completely fail.

But it gets worse:
There are two main anti-wind farm groups in Australia busily fomenting anxiety and opposition. One is the Waubra Foundation, a group of mainly wealthy individuals, none of whom live in or near the town of Waubra, near Ballarat. Several of them, NIMBY style, have opposed turbines near their own properties elsewhere. They are led by an unregistered doctor, Sarah Laurie, and a wealthy mining investor, Peter Mitchell who also has connections to the Landscape Guardians. Despite their name, the Guardians have never attempted to guard our landscape from over-zealous residential developers, open cut coal or coal seam gas mining. They only target wind farm developments. All three – Waubra, the Guardians and Mitchell’s mining investment company share a South Melbourne post office box.
05:57pm 10/09/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3279 posts
I can feel wifi, usually it's in the form of frustration and anger.
05:59pm 10/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4442 posts
wind turbines make people depressed, it's an actual thing


if you sit on them they make you butthurt!
06:00pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
66 posts
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06:01pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
67 posts
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06:07pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
7166 posts
This post has been removed.
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06:12pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
68 posts
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06:18pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
69 posts
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06:24pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6666 posts
Jobs for the boys.,..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-10/ziggy-switkowski-tipped-to-head-nbn/4947470

The Coalition frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull is refusing to confirm whether the former chief executive of Telstra, Ziggy Switkowski, will be appointed to head the National Broadband Network Company.
09:01pm 10/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20504 posts
A great candidate for the position.
09:09pm 10/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
486 posts
A bit like how Labor appointed former Labor Victorian Premier Steve Backs to a top job despite being told to hold off until the election is over.

They'll do anything to wreck the joint.
09:16pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14252 posts
It's OK for Liberal to give the job to the Boys Club, not labor though, no that's dirty.
09:37pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
2182 posts
Thought this was a pretty interesting read.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/09/tony-abbott-election-victory-labor

tldr: Braindead politics caused labors downfall, some interesting quotes below. Particularly given some on here's views about the economy and debt.

From Gordon Brown to José Zapatero, the global financial crisis has claimed many social-democratic leaders. But the striking thing about the economic record presented by Labor's Kevin Rudd at the polls is how strong it is. Australia is now enjoying its 22nd consecutive year of growth: during the Great Recession, the country managed to avoid any recession at all. How? By warding off a global downturn with what Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz described as "probably the best-designed stimulus package of any … advanced industrial country, both in size and in design, and how it was spent".
So, having pulled off such a feat, what did Labor do? Rather than crow about such smart state intervention, it practically disowned its triumph. Rudd – who once described himself as "basically a conservative when it comes to … public financial management" – and his Treasury team were soon promising to get the government budget back in surplus. This was "braindead economics", according to Steve Keen, economist at the University of Western Sydney. Even after its stimulus spending, Australia last year had among the lowest debt-to-GDP ratios in the entire developed world.
09:40pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6291 posts
Jobs for the boys.,..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-10/ziggy-switkowski-tipped-to-head-nbn/4947470


Next up - 3 Ziggybyte NBN plans for all!
09:57pm 10/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4444 posts
Jobs for the boys.,..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-10/ziggy-switkowski-tipped-to-head-nbn/4947470

I don't care who's in charge just get me some speed!
10:03pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23334 posts
10:07pm 10/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20505 posts
She actually attended court and offered to plead guilty. It was the court which is part of the judicial arm of our Government and in no way controlled by the Executive, which threw the charges out. It's probably a Murdoch conspiracy.
10:18pm 10/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7991 posts
Thought this was a pretty interesting read.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/09/tony-abbott-election-victory-labortldr: Braindead politics caused labors downfall, some interesting quotes below. Particularly given some on here's views about the economy and debt.

Yeah, Labor were the worst self-advertisers in the history of f*****g anything, it's like they didn't even know the strengths of their own policies half of the time and walked straight into saying the wrong things (e.g. for some stupid reason Rudd was trying to claim that the nbn was "free"), nor did they seem to have any awareness of or make any attempt to correct the public's misunderstandings about them, such as being big taxers and spenders (where spending grew slower under them than under Howard, and taxes are lower), where it's actually the last coalition government whose been the largest taxers and spenders in recent decades (and selling national assets at arguably subpar rates to maintain that).
10:23pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23335 posts
She actually attended court and offered to plead guilty. It was the court which is part of the judicial arm of our Government and in no way controlled by the Executive, which threw the charges out. It's probably a Murdoch conspiracy.
Are you aware that bias in the Murdoch press is pretty much a matter of public record and for you to still present it as some vague conspiracy that might not actually be happening makes you look pretty foolish? Do you even care how foolish you look anymore? Surely you reach some threshold where you just don't care anymore. Have you hit that? Is that the explanation for your ridiculous posts? Throw us a bone here.

And the court had a little help in making its decision anyway -

Her lawyer also told the court that incoming Attorney-General George Brandis, had written to the court describing Ms Credlin's exemplary character and how she had a 21-year unblemished driving record.
Oh how nice of him.

edit: oh and also the fact that Tony Abbott's Chief of Staff is a drink driver.

LNP, The Responsible Government.
10:29pm 10/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
257 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: troll
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11:16pm 10/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
7172 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Abusive
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11:17pm 10/09/13 Permalink
pjano
113 posts
tldr: Braindead politics caused labors downfall, some interesting quotes below. Particularly given some on here's views about the economy and debt.


*
tldr: Braindead labor politicians caused labor's downfall,
07:12am 11/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37352 posts
She actually attended court and offered to plead guilty. It was the court which is part of the judicial arm of our Government and in no way controlled by the Executive, which threw the charges out. It's probably a Murdoch conspiracy.
The only thing that can defend this action is to review all similar cases by the judge and determine if he has any bias in cases like this.

If he regularly gives drink drivers (regardless of their employ/background) the benefit of the doubt when its a first offence and they have character witnesses and they act all apologetic then I don't see the problem.

(I guess that information is publicly available or can be with an FOI? If someone really cares.)
10:05am 11/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10169 posts
Ziggy was CEO, chairman and managing director Kodak Australaisia... Sounds like just the guy we want.
10:07am 11/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20507 posts
My problem is fpot's accusation that she got off because she is a Liberal staffer.

Judges are appointed for life, they don't give a s*** which party anyone comes from!
10:09am 11/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
259 posts
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11:23am 11/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36480 posts
yer, thats is the most massive one sided viewing i have seen in this thread.
11:46am 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23344 posts
Come on infi old boy, I thought you of all people would know how these old boy hook ups work ;)

My greatest concern is that the PM's Chief of Staff, a position of power and responsibility, can't even count her own drinks. We're in good hands people!
12:14pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3845 posts
Not to mention how Abbott got away with spending tax payers money to fund his own book for his own financial gain.
He tactfully kept the value below a certain amount so it wouldn't have shown up. but it did.
12:49pm 11/09/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2457 posts
Judges are appointed for life, they don't give a s*** which party anyone comes from!

Just...wow.
If the boot was on the other foot i.e. a Labor staffer, can you honestly say you would have the same response?
From what I've seen on here and elsewhere, Libs love to put the boot in, but are suddenly sympathetic when one of their own has a stumble.
I would actually respect you as a Liberal supporter/member/whatever if you conceded that not everything they do is 100% above reproach. No political party is 100% right all the time, and the snide, gloating, dismissive and entitled Liberals like you and others who carry on with this holier than thou BS are the Libs own worst enemy as far as I'm concerned.


12:58pm 11/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
490 posts
So it's the Liberal governments fault that a public servant broke the law?

Libs love to put the boot in, but are suddenly sympathetic when one of their own has a stumble.


It's not "one of our own" It's not a politician, it's a public servant.. She's probably not even a member of the party.

This incident has no reflection whatsoever on our government-elect or on their ability to govern. I'll hand it to people like Fpot for trying though.
01:24pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6220 posts
Mmm, not sure you'd class a political staffer as a public servant. Does she hold an official position within DPMC for example? I could be wrong though.

However, it's not a huge incident for someone who otherwise has a successful career and is generally a good member of society to have no conviction recorded when they plead guilty to a low-level drink driving charge. That's a pretty standard MO for many (most?) magistrates.

Typical partisan bs from pretty much everyone in this thread on this one, imo. But hey, it's a qgl politics thread what other outcome is there.
01:49pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10170 posts
First time offender in NSW should get a $1100 fine for low range.
That's a 50% discount.
Peta got fined $0 (100% discount) and charged $69 court costs ... cheapest frickin court costs on the planet.

And she was only just low range as well.

In saying that she was also tested at her home, if she was at home she can legally refuse to give a sample apparently.
02:02pm 11/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20508 posts
Staffers are not public servants, they are employees of the MP or Minister and subject to a whole different set of rules (no unfair dismissal is the main one) and enterprise agreement. That being the case this complaint is about the judiciary. Credlin offered to plead guilty and threw herself at the mercy of the court.

Slagging off at a judge because you're dirty at a private person's conduct (they are not elected) is just lame. Get a new line. She admitted she made a mistake.
02:16pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23346 posts
It's certainly a brave thing to accept full responsibility for your actions when you know old boy hook ups are going to save you from any punishment.
02:21pm 11/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20509 posts
Are you suggesting that Credlin is connected to the magistrate who heard her case? Citation?
02:24pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23347 posts
Nope, I am suggesting the letter from the incoming Attorney-General was enough to convince the magistrate to let her go completely free, and that she knew about this letter.

To be honest, I am just breaking your balls a little bit. Notice how over the last two threads you've just been posting silly unfounded rubbish without anything even resembling evidence to back it up? Yeah.

Honest question time though: is it unusual for people in high positions of power to write character references for people who are linked to the organisation they are in? I mean, if she was some sort of respectable private business woman or some pillar of the community charity person I'd be somewhat for it. George Brandis, an LNP member, writing a letter for a senior political staffer in the LNP party seems pretty unethical to me. Accepting responsibility for your actions isn't just owning up to it and not lying about it, it's also the willingness to cop the punishment for what you've done.
02:38pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10171 posts
I have never been done for any form of drink driving etc etc etc.
Would I get off with no fine if I blew 0.075 ? Even if I had a wonderful character reference from a person of good standing with in the community?

The answer is no.

I base this on the fact I owed the ATO $5.10 lodged over over 18 months too late. Got fined $850 for $5.10 ... winning!



03:09pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23349 posts
Would I get off with no fine if I blew 0.075 ? Even if I had a wonderful character reference from a person of good standing with in the community?
You'd be laughed at.
03:12pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6221 posts
How on earth do either of you know that?

I personally know someone who got done for mid-range DD in NSW who was issued a section 10 (no conviction recorded) because they had a character reference and were otherwise an upstanding member of society. This person's lawyer said that it wasn't an uncommon occurrence for this to occur if it was a first offence but obviously cannot be counted on as it is up to the individual magistrate.

Stop trying to be arm-chair lawyers when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

edit: wtf am i doing, engaging fpot on a politics thread...
03:29pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23350 posts
Well, that was the honest question I was asking. I am sure Obes is a decent bloke in real life but I don't think his social standing as QGL forum grump would be enough to get him off unfortunately.

There was no conviction recorded for this friend of yours, but were they still suspended from driving and fined?
03:34pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6222 posts
There was no conviction recorded for this friend of yours, but were they still suspended from driving and fined?


No. They had to pay court admin costs (the same as Peta Credlin) and had a good behavior bond for 12 months whereby if they committed another offence they would receive a conviction for both their second and original offences and the court would view this particularly unfavourably given their lenient treatment the first time around. That's what a Sectoion 10 dismissal is in NSW iirc.

Is my understanding anyway (I am not a lawyer and this happened a couple of years ago).
03:37pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23351 posts
How was this person an upstanding member of the community exactly and who gave the character reference? (like a former employer, JP, don't need to be specific or anything)

edit: I only ask because Obes asked if he, a regular non-rich Joe who minds his own business and can't afford a fancy lawyer, would get away with a drink driving charge if he had a character reference to which I still reckon he'd be laughed at. Meh.
03:40pm 11/09/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2142 posts
03:45pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6223 posts
No prior problems with the law, good job, did a bit of charity work, etc. Not a paragon of virtue or anything just a generally all round good person. Upstanding member of society was probably laying it on a bit thick, heh.

Character reference was from a personal acquaintance who had known this person for a long time. No other connection to the person.
03:46pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36481 posts
this info is good to know for when i eventually get done for DD, i have a pretty awesome character reference all lined up from that time i had to go to court just because i peed in the mall.

god cops are so uptight.
03:53pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23352 posts
Okay, don't you think that it's a bit unfair that a person who might not have such a good job, who keeps to themselves a bit yet is just as morally pure as the person you described would in all likelihood not be able to obtain a character reference and a lawyer skilled enough to get them off? I know we live in reality, but I think money should just be for fancy cars, expensive holidays overseas, big homes, smoking hot trophy wives and Columbia's finest. It kind of sucks that it can get you out of drink driving charges as well.
04:00pm 11/09/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3783 posts
How on earth do either of you know that?I personally know someone who got done for mid-range DD in NSW who was issued a section 10 (no conviction recorded) because they had a character reference and were otherwise an upstanding member of society. This person's lawyer said that it wasn't an uncommon occurrence for this to occur if it was a first offence but obviously cannot be counted on as it is up to the individual magistrate.Stop trying to be arm-chair lawyers when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.edit: wtf am i doing, engaging fpot on a politics thread...


I had a mate who had the same thing happen to him. Blew 0.05 and got a section 10, which is good because he wouldn't be a commercial pilot right now if a conviction was recorded.

Talking to him about it, he said it is pretty default if you are low range and have no prior convictions.
04:01pm 11/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
491 posts
Consumer confidence has soared to an almost three-year high, propelled by record low interest rates and the election of a coalition government.


http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8721452/consumer-confidence-at-a-three-year-high

Come on baby let the good times roll
04:05pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6224 posts
Okay, don't you think that it's a bit unfair that a person who might not have such a good job, who keeps to themselves a bit yet is just as morally pure as the person you described would in all likelihood not be able to obtain a character reference and a lawyer skilled enough to get them off?


Huh?

Well in your hypothetical situation this hypothetical person would also have had no prior problems with the law, assuming that's what you mean by "morally pure". Secondly, I'm not sure what you think a character reference is but it is essentially a letter from a person to the court. Unless this person had absolutely no friends or acquaintances in good public standing there is no way they would be unable to obtain a character reference. So it sounds like the personal circumstances would be pretty similar and that it would essentially come down to luck of the draw with the magistrate.

My understanding of the event I described earlier is that the lawyer barely said a word in the court. The lawyer's skill was completely irrelevant. The magistrate read the character reference, confirmed a few details about the incident with the defendant (if that's the right term) personally and then made a ruling. The entire thing took less than 10 minutes apparently.

I think your perception of what happens in a magistrates court for a low level DD offence is probably a bit off the mark.
04:11pm 11/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23354 posts
It probably is because I have never been in a courtroom before. I just always assumed that if you got busted drink-driving you'd get punished for it. So if I get busted for it I just get one of my mates to write a letter saying I am a good bloke and that will make a difference? Good to know.
04:15pm 11/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6225 posts
Stop being a difficult twat for the sake of it.

Yes, if you have no prior convictions and end up in front of a court for any reason this may be taken into account depending on the circumstances. Yes, if you have a good character witness and end up in front a court for any reason this may be taken into account depending on the circumstances. Yes, I personally know someone where both of these things were taken into account when they received a Section 10 dismissal for a low range DD offence in NSW and yes this person's lawyer told this person that it was not an uncommon occurrence.

No, I can't definitively say what will occur in a hypothetical situation where you end up in front of a magistrate for obvious reasons. No, it is obviously not as simplistic as you are making it out to be.

My point is that Obes' and your claim that you know what would definitely happen in a hypothetical situation (i.e. if Obes was in front of a magistrate for a low range DD offence) is clearly bulls*** and more than likely you both know so. But that would run counter to the little circlejerk you have going in this thread.

Hopefully that clears things up for you.
04:24pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4505 posts
Libs and their fans have always been the do as i say not as i do kind of people. None of this should be a surprise to anyone.
04:53pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7992 posts
Consumer confidence has soared to an almost three-year high, propelled by record low interest rates and the election of a coalition government.
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8721452/consumer-confidence-at-a-three-year-highCome on baby let the good times roll

It indicates that consumers don't follow what economists are saying or look at the realities of the data, and are easily suckered into political narratives.
04:56pm 11/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20510 posts
Consumers aka The Herd always lead economists. Economists don't know s***. Consumers ARE the economy. Still these confidence levels are coming off record lows.
06:07pm 11/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18730 posts
honestly fpot you can ask as many hyhpothetical c*** questions as you like

so much of it all comes down to how the magistrate is feeling on the day, if they got a root that morning, how the police prosecutor puts the story to the magistrate, the general vibe the magistrate gets from you etc.

some people are lucky enough to have s*** go their way, some aren't

f*** all you can do about it
06:26pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7994 posts
Consumers aka The Herd always lead economists. Economists don't know s***. Consumers ARE the economy. Still these confidence levels are coming off record lows.

Way to miss the context of the discussion.
06:46pm 11/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1532 posts
07:14pm 11/09/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4507 posts
It indicates that consumers don't follow what economists are saying or look at the realities of the data, and are easily suckered into political narratives.



Aint that the truth
07:31pm 11/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4232 posts
Libs and their fans have always been the do as i say not as i do kind of people. None of this should be a surprise to anyone.



this so much, they demand a higher standard of others than they demand from themselves

take slipper or one, of just many
07:31pm 11/09/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1040 posts
take slipper or one, of just many


Let the one among us who hasn't pissed out the bedroom window after cheating on his wife with his young male intern cast the first stone.
10:02pm 11/09/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1091 posts
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/stephen-conroy-labels-new-labor-leadership-rules-a-farce/4952532

F*** me Conroy is a nasty peice of work, I really hope he doesn't end up on the front bench again.

Labor need to get back on the job of rebuilding in opposition. Call a ballot, get the shadow cabinet sorted already.
10:01am 12/09/13 Permalink
pjano
116 posts
I've started spending money again since Labor got voted out.
11:00am 12/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8130 posts
Labor Senator Stephen Conroy labels Kevin Rudd's new leadership-selection rules a 'farce'

Internet labels Stephen Conroy's a c-.

Actually, you know what? Step up, Conroy, you tosser. Let's see you at the front so you're the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong, and then maybe finally the rest of Australia - the non-IT industry - will see what you're worth.
11:03am 12/09/13 Permalink
pjano
117 posts
I crie every tiem

11:29am 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23362 posts
The LNP plans to axe clean energy bank despite the fact it's making money - link

LNP, The Science Fearing Government.
11:37am 12/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
494 posts
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/stephen-conroy-labels-new-labor-leadership-rules-a-farce/4952532F*** me Conroy is a nasty peice of work, I really hope he doesn't end up on the front bench again.Labor need to get back on the job of rebuilding in opposition. Call a ballot, get the shadow cabinet sorted already.


Why is he a nasty piece of work for speaking out about Rudd with factual information? You are nasty if you speak the truth?

Most Labor ministers have said similar things about rudd.

The LNP plans to axe clean energy bank despite the fact it's making money - linkLNP, The Science Fearing Government.


It's not making any money and no where in that article does it say it is.

The whole point of this corporation is to give out nonviable loans for nonviable Green energy projects.Thus it should be scrapped. Typical stupidity suggesting they are "climate change denying" because they are abolishing such a wasteful government own corporation.
12:10pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
914 posts
It's not making any money and no where in that article does it say it is.The whole point of this corporation is to give out nonviable loans for nonviable Green energy projects.Thus it should be scrapped. Typical stupidity suggesting they are "climate change denying" because they are abolishing such a wasteful government own corporation.


The reality is that once the CEFC was setup and the board of directors was staffed, it was able to meet its objectives without making loans at below market rates or with higher than normal commercial expectations of bad debts. Basically, the CEFC is no more a drain on the budget or a waste of money than putting money in a bank. The only reason to scrap it is ideology and politics, not economics or science.

You can read more here: http://www.cleanenergyfinancecorp.com.au/media/63369/factsheet-cefc-and-the-budget_lr.pdf

edit because I assume nobody will actually look at that: a quote from the fact sheet
Under its Investment Mandate, the CEFC is required to apply commercial rigour when making investment decisions, focusing on projects and technologies at the later stages of development. By adopting a commercial approach, it is expected that the Corporation will invest responsibly and manage risk so it is financially self-sufficient and achieves abenchmark rate of return.
12:27pm 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23364 posts
Peter Phelps, Liberal member of the NSW Legislative Council (upper house), is a Pinochet apologist - link

When called out on it

http://i.imgur.com/hyyLdnR.jpg

LNP, The History Aware Mature Government.

edit: I think my favourite bit is this

Yes, Pinochet killed people. If anyone knows of any other way to overthrow a government than by military force, then let me hear about it.
http://i.imgur.com/EUW86WZs.jpg
12:28pm 12/09/13 Permalink
pjano
118 posts
Science Fearing Government.


why would anybody be fearing science? That's probably the most stupid thing I've heard all day. It's like fearing art or engineering or sport, doesn't make sense....
12:33pm 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23365 posts
Some people fear science because it challenges their preconceived beliefs and ideals. It forces them to actually think about their position rather than just jam their fingers in their ears and endlessly repeat themselves. You know. Like what happens in this very thread.

A reason people specifically fear climate science is because to effectively combat it will cost money and in some cases people will be forced to alter their lifestyles. Change is scary in the LNP world bro!

edit: Racist science fearer MP Dennis Jenson wants to be science minister - link

Apart from being an open science-denier, he is also openly racist

Dr Jensen boycotted Parliament on the day that the formal apology to the Stolen Generations was made by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. He further courted controversy by telling Australian Indigenous people affected by European colonisation to "get over it."
Now he hasn't been appointed yet so I'll give the LNP the benefit of the doubt in this case but lolz if he is.
12:39pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6294 posts
IMO fpot if it's worth changing your pic you gotta rock that Pinkman avatar. No half measures.

Change is scary in the LNP world bro! B****!
12:56pm 12/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18735 posts
01:19pm 12/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6226 posts
The LNP plans to axe clean energy bank despite the fact it's making money - link


It is making money because it has access to funds at an artificially low rate. If it had to source its funding from the market like every other financial entity that doesn't receive its funding directly from the government at the effective risk free rate this could be a very different story.

The reality is that once the CEFC was setup and the board of directors was staffed, it was able to meet its objectives without making loans at below market rates or with higher than normal commercial expectations of bad debts.


I think your claim that it is making loans at market rates that reflect the level of risk inherent in the loans is questionable at best. For example, fpot's link states that the loans it has made thus far are returning an average of 5.8%. I think this is below market rates for loans to entities of that nature and risk.

For example, a relatively recent bond issue by ANZ has an interest rate of BBSW + 3.4%.Today the relevant BBSW = 2.6150% so the coupon on this bond issue is 6.015% (2.6150% + 3.4%, won't get into differences between coupon and yield for sake of simplicity - assume bond at par). Now I think it is pretty much a given that ANZ debt is far less risky than debt issued to green technology companies. So why do the loans to the green technology companies have on average a lower interest rate than those to ANZ? Unless you genuinely believe that the loans that the CEFC has made thus far are less risky than ANZ debt?

The answer, in my opinion, is that the loans to the green technology companies are not being made at a rate that accurately reflects the risk of these loans. This should be obvious conceptually as well - because if the CEFC was making loans at market rates that accurately reflect the risk of these loans then there would be no reason for the CEFC to exist in the first place! This is because the green technology companies would already be able to source debt at the same rates from the market thus negating any need for a publicly financed entity to be doing the exact same thing. The very fact that the CEFC exists is a clear indication that the market is not willing to provide debt to these companies at the same rates that the CEFC is currently doing.

Now this is not to say that the CEFC is inherently a bad idea - you can make the argument that this explicit subsidy to green technology companies is in the public interest as the positive externalities of green technology companies becoming successful are worth the effective government subsidy that publicly financed loans from the CEFC at below market rates represents. But that is a different argument altogether than the one you are trying to make.

In essence that is what the different in positions between the ALP and Coalition on the CEFC boils down to: ALP believes that the potential for these positive externalities in the future is worth a publicly financed subsidy whereas the Coalition does not.

edit: holy horrible formatting batman. posting from phone, should be fixed meow.
01:29pm 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23368 posts
Despite how hard that was to read (are you posting from a spacebarless enterless phone? :P) thank you for it.

And yeah, I think that it is in the publics' interest to subsidise green energy technology.
01:35pm 12/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37353 posts
This is because the green technology companies would already be able to source debt at the same rates from the market thus negating any need for a publicly financed entity to be doing the exact same thing. The very fact that the CEFC exists is a clear indication that the market is not willing to provide debt to these companies at the same rates that the CEFC is currently doing.
How does that compare with what offerings are available to traditional energy sources within Australia? I don't know how it works over here, but I know in the US oil companies (for example) have historically had access to tax benefits that also massively upset "market rates".

i.e., from my limited perspective, it looks like market rates for these sorts of massive things are distorted anyway
01:42pm 12/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6227 posts
How does that compare with what offerings are available to traditional energy sources within Australia? I don't know how it works over here, but I know in the US oil companies (for example) have historically had access to tax benefits that also massively upset "market rates".


Well tax benefits aren't hugely relevant to the topic of discussion here.

What we are taking about is a company's cost of funds, specifically cost of debt. What the company does with these funds and how the economic activity generated by these funds is taxed after it has been sourced is an altogether different matter. I suppose it can have some indirect bearing (i.e. a company in an industry that receives lots of tax benefits might be seen to be less risky and thus have a lower cost of funds) but I don't really see that as being hugely relevant to the discussion of the CEFC above (i.e. whether the interest on CEFC loans reflects market rates). I also don't work in corporate tax so I don't know much about the tax benefits that different industries enjoy relative to others.

It is my understanding that it would be incredibly difficult (if not impossible) to project finance a new coal power station in Australia given the current regulatory uncertainty. I don't work in commercial/project finance lending so can't really comment further.
01:54pm 12/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
263 posts
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02:23pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7995 posts
So why do the loans to the green technology companies have on average a lower interest rate than those to ANZ? Unless you genuinely believe that the loans that the CEFC has made thus far are less risky than ANZ debt?

My naive guess would presumably be... Because the goal is to help startups of this kind through favourable conditions in the hope of solving a problem and positioning Australia to be a leader in future valuable technologies? (which very successful investors and entrepreneurs such as Buffet, Musk, Gates, etc, are investing in too?).

It's ironic that Fpot tried to lie and say the Green energy finance corporation was making money. If anyone else gets the slightest thing incorrect let alone lie, he goes bat s*** nuts.

It's making a positive return?

"Our investments are looking at returning on average around 5.8 per cent and cost of government funds is around 2.8 per cent so we're running quite successfully."

From 2015-16 onwards, the net CEFC Portfolio Investment Return is expected to be positive, i.e. no cost to Government from 2015-16 onwards – instead it generates positive returns.
02:25pm 12/09/13 Permalink
taggs
6228 posts
t's ironic that Fpot tried to lie and say the Green energy finance corporation was making money. If anyone else gets the slightest thing incorrect let alone lie, he goes bat s*** nuts.


He didn't lie and he is technically correct.

It does make money albeit with significant government assistance. If it had to source its fund directly from the market it may not necessarily make money but that is not what fpot said.

My naive guess would presumably be... Because the goal is to help startups of this kind through favourable conditions in the hope of solving a problem and positioning Australia to be a leader in future valuable technologies? (which very successful investors and entrepreneurs such as Buffet, Musk, Gates, etc, are investing in too?).


Who else may or may not be investing in similar companies is irrelevant to the discussion above.

If it wasn't 100% clear, I posed that question rhetorically and answered it in the following paragraphs - namely that these subsidies (i.e. loans at below market rates) are argued to generate positive externalities in the future (e.g. cheaper renewable energy). Australia becoming a leader in renewable technology could be loosely argued to be another positive externality.
02:28pm 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
7197 posts
This post has been removed.
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02:37pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
915 posts
It's ironic that Fpot tried to lie and say the Green energy finance corporation was making money. If anyone else gets the slightest thing incorrect let alone lie, he goes bat s*** nuts.But if the projects were so viable, they could easily get loans etc from the private sector without the need of a government corporation


Read the document I linked. Almost all of the loans are majority private sector with assistance from the CEFC. It isn't like they are providing loans to companies that commercial banks won't touch. e.g.

CEFC co-financed $50 million as part of the refinancing of Victoria’s $1 billion Macarthur Wind Farm. The total refinancing was $529 million and was provided by a syndicate of co-financiers including ANZ, NAB, ING, Shinsei, ICBC and EKF. CEFC participated on the same terms as the other banks with the exception of EKF (the Danish export credit agency which is lending on a fixed rate for 18 years to support Danish exports and Danish jobs). The CEFC played a critical role in this transaction to provide market liquidity to ensure efficient pricing.


Lending on the same terms at other banks.
02:39pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7996 posts
If it wasn't 100% clear, I posed that question rhetorically and answered it in the following paragraphs

Fair enough, I did see the lower part but wasn't entirely sure.

Though as for why pointing out who is investing in them, it was both to highlight that there's an argument to be made that it's a very good type of investment, and thrown in because it doesn't seem a stretch to suspect that much of the Coalition's renewable views are coming from interactions with Gina (she's privately flying party leaders around to overseas weddings, attending the same right-wing gatherings, etc), who has been doing writeups of late on the supposed financial horrors of renewables, essentially trying to imply that nobody who understood money would invest in them, which I suspect that people will eat up because of her wealth. (In reality, she has never started a company or ventured outside of the scope of what she inherited, while some of the most successful capitalists in the world, who have actual experience with startups and investment outside of one narrow scope, are heavily investing in them, so I'd rather that Australian policy follow in their suit than listen to people who seem to currently have the ear of policy makers).
02:48pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10172 posts
I am sure Obes is a decent bloke in real life but I don't think his social standing as QGL forum grump would be enough to get him off unfortunately.
pfft ... I am an upstanding grump

The world needs grumps to make positive people seem positive.
04:11pm 12/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
496 posts
What's with the all of a sudden crackdown on posts after the election that are actually on topic and not breaking the rules? Mainly focused at me, fpot and pjano. Especially with silly/rude reasons like "shutup" and "another boring troll" and "offtopic"

It's getting really annoying and disrupting the debate/argument and is just unnecessary. Which mod is doing this?
05:17pm 12/09/13 Permalink
pjano
120 posts
Some people fear science because it challenges their preconceived beliefs and ideals. A reason people specifically fear climate science is because to effectively combat it will cost money and in some cases people will be forced to alter their lifestyles. edit: Racist science fearer MP Dr Dennis Jenson wants to be science minister - linkApart from being an open science-denier, he is also openly racist.


so you think because he denies press release science like CO2 causes global warming climate science he is wrong,

Yet you don't bother to consider any sides of the argument. Climate change is the result of many different things...

http://www.warwickhughes.com/hoyt/climate-change.htm
http://www.warwickhughes.com/hoyt/scorecard.htm


What's with the all of a sudden crackdown on posts after the election that are actually on topic and not breaking the rules? Mainly focused at me, fpot and pjano. Especially with silly/rude reasons like "shutup" and "another boring troll" and "offtopic"It's getting really annoying and disrupting the debate/argument and is just unnecessary. Which mod is doing this?


I agree, one of the reasons was "wrong" when it was a paper saying 2.5% of people are disturbed by low frequency noise. Disagree if you wish, or remove the personal attacks, but don't take away our freedom of speech.
05:26pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7997 posts
Meanwhile, Australia sets another record on high temperatures this year. http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/
05:27pm 12/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23372 posts
Yet you don't bother to consider any sides of the argument.
Climate change is probably one of the most discussed things on this forum. You are not posting anything new. I've seen it posted by dullards all over the net. It's about as fresh as arguing about whether 9/11 was an inside job or not.

So don't go kidding yourself into thinking you are presenting anything new or have any sort of new unique insight into anything. If you really want to make a complete fool out of yourself, make a climate change thread, because I am pretty sure climate change is out of bounds in here.
06:55pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Vash
2170 posts
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06:59pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
14647 posts
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07:04pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
946 posts
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07:05pm 12/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
265 posts
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07:22pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
947 posts
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07:34pm 12/09/13 Permalink
pjano
79 posts
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07:50pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6296 posts
Good on Kevin Rudd for deciding he'll sit in readiness on the backbench for when Bill Shorten's opinion polls start to dip.
07:59pm 12/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4448 posts
Not a great deal of talent to choose from in the Labour Party is there.
08:17pm 12/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4449 posts

Old Clive loves his conspiracies

palmer-takes-aim-at-military-aec
08:21pm 12/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14410 posts
So there's another election on shortly, Albo vs. Shoreton for Opposition leader.

I think Albo's not the most appealing to joe public, and what I've seen of him speaking on Q&A seemed a bit awkward. Shoreton seems more composed and has the backing of NSW Right (which will deliver some much needed stability).

Albo probably has the backing of the rank and file voters who get a say now courtesy of Rudd's reforms to put a shield on his back if he won the election ... who's gonna win, and who do you think is a better leader?
02:49pm 13/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4454 posts
Wasn't Shorten behind Julia ousting Rudd then Rudd counter ousting Julia?

i think he's the puppet master in the ALP these days so my money's on him.
03:10pm 13/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36491 posts
shorten seems like a smart operator.

lets give him a turn at the wheel!
03:12pm 13/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18739 posts
I think shorten was always behind julia and hated rudd, right through the multiple spills except the last one where he had to bite the bullet
03:20pm 13/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20515 posts
Albo is your typical drunk brawler from down the pub. Not really PM material.
03:21pm 13/09/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
135 posts
03:22pm 13/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
498 posts
We have a new government yet are TV screens are still being spammed with Labor Leadership problems. zzzzzzzzzz go away!
05:14pm 13/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36493 posts
whats the problem?
05:16pm 13/09/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1443 posts
We have a new government yet are TV screens are still being spammed with Labor Leadership problems. zzzzzzzzzz go away!

What the f*** are you on about. Leadership spills are common after an election for the opposition ya git. Nothing new. Go back to school kid and this time learn something.
05:46pm 13/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4457 posts
We have a new government yet are TV screens are still being spammed with Labor Leadership problems. zzzzzzzzzz go away!

What the f*** are you on about. Leadership spills are common after an election for the opposition ya git. Nothing new. Go back to school kid and this time learn something.


he's just butthurt from all the nuking, give the kid a break
05:52pm 13/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
499 posts
What the f*** are you on about. Leadership spills are common after an election for the opposition ya git. Nothing new. Go back to school kid and this time learn something.


I know, i didn't say they weren't. Please read carefully.

What i'm saying is that the Labor Leadership is once again the main news going around and we are hearing little coverage about our new government. This is due to the chaotic process of choosing a new Labor leader. Not everyone agrees on the rules of selecting a new leader and now it looks like its going to on a month long ballot with 2 candidates going head to head so we can expect infighting in true Labor style. When the Liberals lost in 2007, it was a simple and calm transition to a new leader, but in true Labor style it has to be chaotic.

We are already hearing rumours of a Rudd comeback from Craig Emerson, he just simply cannot give it up even though people don't want him and Federal Liberal Director Brian Loughnane has ordered all campaign staff to keep all advertising and material prepared about Mr Rudd's leadership in case he attempts a comeback.

Just get off our TV screens already, we voted out this chaos! It's time to enjoy our new competent government. It's time to commence operation sovereign borders!
07:29pm 13/09/13 Permalink
pjano
124 posts
The labor party are good for making some ridiculous reality TV show for the media but that's about it really
07:58pm 13/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4458 posts
Just get off our TV screens already, we voted out this chaos! It's time to enjoy our new competent government. It's time to commence operation sovereign borders!


You should write to the leader of the new govt, Rupert Murdoch, he'll make it go away.
08:55pm 13/09/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10173 posts
What i'm saying is that the Labor Leadership is once again the main news going around and we are hearing little coverage about our new government.

That would be because the LNP isn't actually doing anything at the moment.
08:50am 14/09/13 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5850 posts
Clive Palmer the new Faceman of bat s*** crazy
09:22am 14/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4237 posts
maybe faceman has been clive the whole time
09:33am 14/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11147 posts
Julia Gillard: power, purpose and Labor’s future

Labor comes to opposition having sent the Australian community a very cynical and shallow message about its sense of purpose.

The decision by Labor caucus to change leaders in June this year was not done on the basis of embracing a new policy agenda; it was not done because caucus now believed Kevin Rudd had the greater talent for governing. Caucus's verdict of 2010 on that was not being revoked.

It was only done - indeed expressly done - on the basis that Labor might do better at the election.
09:42am 14/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18742 posts
maybe faceman is clive palmer
10:23am 14/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4459 posts
maybe faceman is clive palmer


maybe faceman has been clive the whole time


i think we're onto something. has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time? hmmmmmmm
12:57pm 14/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
501 posts
01:20pm 14/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8008 posts
A positive move, but to put it in sarcastic perspective, I'm sure that bit of ideological grandstanding will save a few drops in the pond which makes it okay for them to cut the revenue generating programs.
01:39pm 14/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
502 posts
Kevin Rudd may have had more influence in shaping US policies in Asia than any foreigner since Singapore's founder Lee Kuan Yew during the Vietnam War era, a US government official says.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/14/15/07/rudd-top-strategic-thinker-ex-us-official

Surely they must be taking the piss?
04:02pm 14/09/13 Permalink
pjano
126 posts
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/14/15/07/rudd-top-strategic-thinker-ex-us-officialSurely they must be taking the piss?


too bad his top strategic thinking didn't save him from Gillard
04:58pm 14/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
503 posts
The Labor leadership chaos continues. Gillards comments on Kevin and Labor were stinging.
01:34pm 15/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18754 posts
a douchebag continues to post on qgl
01:34pm 15/09/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14419 posts
The Labor leadership chaos continues. Gillards comments on Kevin and Labor were stinging.

Does this guy ever shut up?
01:56pm 15/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20520 posts
I like the bit where the ALP has Party rules which take over a month to figure out who their leader is hahah, those guys
03:34pm 15/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1537 posts
Scrapping the carbon tax will lead to electricity price rises: report

A new report out today says that the Coalition’s promise to end carbon pricing in Australia would lead to higher wholesale energy prices. The report’s author told RN Breakfast that the policy would be a blow to renewable energy and household power bills, as James Bourne reports.


http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/axing-carbon-price-will-hit-power-prices/4882394

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/524600_480704602026597_1976789952_n.jpg
08:18pm 15/09/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10122 posts
I don't know what's sadder...


the money Optus is now throwing us at work to come back or the money Telstra is offering to their staff to take voluntary redundancy.


either way - we'll be back at work tomorrow morning doing the same Telstra job for a third the wage as contractors.. copper or fiber.


F*** you Labor. This happened under your watch.


You were supposed to save us from the f*****g Liberals...

last edited by koopz at 23:07:25 15/Sep/13

last edited by koopz at 23:08:17 15/Sep/13
11:05pm 15/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
504 posts
beware of false idols.
11:16pm 15/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20521 posts
Labor did not conduct a cost benefit analysis or even properly cost out the rollout of the NBN. It was haphazard every step of the way. Quigley and Conroy are accountable.

Now we have a competent government the contractors will have the chance to deal with a competent Minister. The whole project may actually be run in a sustainable and business like manner.

I feel sorry for the contractors who were screwed by the NBNCo under Labor. They are just trying to make a living.

I wonder what the Greens would have done to address Labor's joke rollout.
11:24pm 15/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8009 posts
There were multiple corporate plans and analyses done by world class institutions, but that will be a little lie by omission as you try to paint that "completely haphazard" narrative with buzzwords from the coalition campaign.
11:44pm 15/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20522 posts
Not prior to announcement of the policy and scope, a report you do afterwards is like getting an engineer in after you build the bridge.

And amazingly the reports supported the policy!
12:04am 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8010 posts
is like getting an engineer in after you build the bridge.

Uh, that analogy is false, the NBN is not scheduled to be built until the next decade...

And even if that did happen, which it didn't, then while it would be the wrong approach, if the engineer signing off on it was worth their salt than you would have every reason to presume that the engineering part was done properly.

And amazingly the reports supported the policy!

Right, because those two leading international firms with their reputations on the line must have been corrupted as part of a conspiracy by labor politicians. That's the only possible totally non-ridiculous explanation for them to say that the NBN plan was commercially viable. No other possible explanation, like say the NBN plan being commercially viable.
12:23am 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
128 posts
the NBN is not scheduled to be built until the next decade....


dafuq?
07:33am 16/09/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1204 posts
Labor did not conduct a cost benefit analysis or even properly cost out the rollout of the NBN. It was haphazard every step of the way. Quigley and Conroy are accountable....


How do you do a CBA for an off budget investment project?

They have properly cost out the rollout.. It is $30.5b from government equity - repayments start in 2023 - additionally it raises about $2b a year from private equity. The exposure to the public is the interest payments on this government equity (about $12.b in interest payments till 2033). That 12.5b is the only amount that is on budget. Can you find any of these details in the little blue book? Or is it just full of assumptions that just keep up the Liberal way of life of have's and have nots for no other reason then to continue the status quo? There is no monetary rationale for halting or changing it regardless of all the rhetoric. Maybe if you held off until looking at the state of NBNCO's books and rollout program, but this never happened. We were just given an alternative without any of this being known.

A CBA tells you nothing about any of this, all it does is a benefits analysis against what the government pays in the end, which is nothing (as both plans are off budget). It's just BS and what should be happening is a the rate of return checked against what is being proposed.

A CBA is fine for something like a road or piece of infrastructure that you don't receive any money back from but provide a resource to the community. This is not one of them. You would do much better to research your arguments yourself instead of promoting the party line with no other rationale.
09:03am 16/09/13 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
979 posts
Not prior to announcement of the policy and scope, a report you do afterwards is like getting an engineer in after you build the bridge.And amazingly the reports supported the policy!


Not unlike how they're planning to do a CBA on the fraudband with the parameters of time and cost, rather than overall which is a better plan. A REAL CBA would show FTTP to be superior, that's why the CBA will be cooked so the parameters exclude the possibility and show FTTN is the best for the 2 years + under 30 billion parameters.

Everything you've said applies double for the fraudband plan. The FTTP plan has been costed and started on. They're running within 3% of budget too and there have been multiple hearings (including a senate hearing) about how the project is going and it was on track.

Meanwhile FTTN is barely cheaper and that's before factoring in the 11+ billion for the copper network and maint on it. That's ALSO including the $5 billion of work they did for the labor NBN, which they're going to use (and totally ignore that $5 billion tag from their costings) for the FTTN. And don't forget the year delay before anything even starts on it.

If they actually did a legit CBA, you'd find that the FTTN "plan" they have will end up costing more to the tax payers for a tiny increase of speed over what we have now. Installing an obsolete technology and claiming "It'll do" is amazingly short sighted and stupid. Factor in the fact that in 5-10 years they'll have to rip it all up for fibre and the cost grows again, and that's not including lost business due to s***** internet.

My only hope is that they stall the FTTN and get their asses booted out next election and labour can get their s*** sorted and finish the project off.
09:09am 16/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18762 posts
the NBN is not scheduled to be built until the next decade....


dafuq?


pretty sure he means completed next decade
09:18am 16/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37363 posts
please don't use the word 'fraudband' any more; I don't know what it is referring to and it's the sort of FUD term that clouds the waters for any sort of rational debate
09:24am 16/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8134 posts
please don't use the word 'fraudband' any more; I don't know what it is referring to and it's the sort of FUD term that clouds the waters for any sort of rational debate

'Broadband' is defined by the government as anything greater than 64kbps. That ISDN connection you used 15 years ago? "Broadband".
09:51am 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20523 posts
A CBA is fine for something like a road or piece of infrastructure that you don't receive any money back from but provide a resource to the community. This is not one of them.
excellent point?
10:37am 16/09/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1205 posts
excellent point?


Thanks! I do all my best work in nerd induced anger on internet forums.
10:39am 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
131 posts
HFC is pretty good (over 100mb/s). Anybody that thinks it's s*** is in denial. I'm on ADSL and downloaded a 3.5gb ARMA III patch in ~30 mins offpeak (2mb/s), so just watched some TV and ate food while waiting...

The only thing I could see the NBN being useful for is HQ video streaming to doctors but really it's better to see a doctor in person. Pretty much everybody has skype and you don't see people streaming to doctors now. Perhaps it might be useful for gaming but most games I play aren't laggy and I doubt the NBN would improve my reaction time.
11:15am 16/09/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7004 posts
please don't use the word 'fraudband' any more; I don't know what it is referring to and it's the sort of FUD term that clouds the waters for any sort of rational debate
It's from this 2007 article: http://www.fionanash.com.au/Media/MediaReleases/tabid/84/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/213/LABORS-RURAL-FRAUDBAND.aspx
11:52am 16/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
505 posts
I find that most nerds/nbn fanatics purposely ignoring facts about the NBN such as it's real price etc etc because they are so desperate to get it. They even ignore it's failings in the rollout. It's almost like they are hypnotized.

I think i mentioned before about the discussions over on Whirlpool where people are literally saying that the Australian economy WILL collapse because we aren't getting LaborsNBN which is just hysterical nonsense.

This was just days before the election....
NBN Co warned the Labor government of a $1.6 billion increase in the funding needed to build the national broadband network in the weeks leading to the election, after construction delays and weaker-than-expected revenue forecasts hit the project.


http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_warns_it_needs_another_bn_EUi3gqMalLyYXmUMP06MVL
12:55pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23384 posts
Again, I know reading and comprehension is hard for you, but you should probably try to actually read the entire article if you cite it.

But in the final forecasts from the company before Labor lost the election on September 7, NBN Co maintained it would finish the network as expected in 2021, at the same capital expenditure budget of $37.4 billion.
...
NBN Co said it would seek the additional funding from debt markets to cover the gap, rather than ask for more equity from government.
What was that you were saying about purposely ignoring facts?
01:06pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4689 posts
I'm on ADSL and downloaded a 3.5gb ARMA III patch in ~30 mins offpeak (2mb/s), so just watched some TV and ate food while waiting


yeah, during off-peak, sunny weather my adsl is actually pretty good too.

heaven forbid it rain though, or i try and do something at 7:00pm, might as well use my mobile phones data connection instead, less dropouts as long as i position my phone right next to the window.

At the old house, my ADSL was good during congestion, but failed during rain, or if a tech looked into the pit for whatever reason. Got 100mb cable connected to fix the dropouts during rain, got awesome speeds offpeak, acted "capped" when it was on peak though. apparently the system wasn't designed to support 2 home computers according to the optus tec I complained to. Probably should return his IT certificate back to the cerial box from where he found it.

At work we went from optus evovle (using copper tech) to fibre, insane improvement in speed and consistency. cost a mint though cause we had to pay to get the cables laid from the exchange.

If only there was some sort of plan to get all the fibre laid to almost everyone in one project, i'd certainly be happy to put mandatory money into it.
01:14pm 16/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
506 posts
Again, I know reading and comprehension is hard for you, but you should probably try to actually read the entire article if you cite it.What was that you were saying about purposely ignoring facts?


What exactly are you claiming i mis-read and ignored in the article?

NBNCO needs a $1.6 billion increase in the funding which backs up my point that costs are blowing out. What you quoted from the article doesn't do anything to debunk that fact.

NBNCO can claim what they like but the facts are out in public. The network won't be completed by 2021 because they are massively behind schedule. The only way they could possibly fix it is to throw extra money at the ntwork which means their $37.4 billion figure will be way off the mark not to mention the contractors demanding more pay.
02:59pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23388 posts
haha yes it did. I was kind of joking when I said reading and comprehension was hard for you but it really is, isn't it?
03:06pm 16/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
507 posts
I think it's you who is really struggling with reading and comprehension.

NBN Co warned the Labor government of a $1.6 billion increase in the funding needed to build the national broadband network


So my point (NBNCO is going over budget and costs are blowing out) stands. If they were on budget, they wouldn't be seeking additional funding to cover a "gap" now would they?

Another Fpot Herp Derp moment. :)
05:00pm 16/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18766 posts
yes, i am sure that the libs nbn plan will come out 100% on budget or below budget
05:04pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3847 posts
It's amusing that these right winger types see the coalition as some economic frugal spending messiah.
When in reality they were the most wasteful spenders of any modern Australian government. I'll laugh if the current Coalition government cannot balance things any better than Labor, but they'll still find a way to blame them.
05:06pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6302 posts
yes, i am sure that the libs nbn plan will come out 100% on budget or below budget

I'm guessing that like the plan for direct action climate funding, if the NBN isn't on budget they'll just need to cut more.
Guaranteed 25 megabits? Oops! That was a non-core promise, how about 8 megabits! Could be worse, could be 1 megabit!
05:12pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23390 posts
Yeah as I said bright eyes, if you go on to read the rest of the article (you know, beyond the headline and first paragraph) it says that the original $37.4B is still on target and that they are sourcing the funds from debt markets and not the government, so who cares anyway? Has there ever been a job of this scale that hasn't experienced some sort of budget problem?

Your latest name change has reminded me of how I actually bothered to watch that Media Watch episode about media bias (I originally didn't bother because I also don't watch shows about how the sky is blue). After watching it and seeing the bias objectively proven with carefully laid out facts and research, I just can't fathom how a fully functioning or even half-functioning brain can muster enough cognitive dissonance to pretend the bias isn't there.

infi asked earlier if I actually believed that the media bias was responsible for the LNP's win. At the time I said no, because the possibility just seemed ridiculous. So far in this thread a good reason backed up with evidence for voting LNP has not been posted. It's just been s*** parroted by what the papers have said - stuff about Rudd being a psychopath and other asinine s***. I guess there must be some rational LNP voters out there somewhere, and in infi's case he votes for LNP because he has benefited from corruption on their part in the past and it's the way daddy says to vote. The other vocal retards in this thread though - you've been easily duped by s***** journalism. How stupid are you?
05:19pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2664 posts
Australia now has no Minister for Science. Also one woman in a cabinet of 19. Also a homophobe in charge of Social Services.

Conservatism and anti intellectualism ahoy!
05:24pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23391 posts
No Minister for Science is better than the person they might appoint Minister of Science - http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/climate-sceptic-mp-dennis-jensen-wants-to-be-science-minister-20130912-2tltt.html

edit: wait, I thought you meant no Minister for Science yet, but there might not actually be a Minister for Science at all? lolz

LNP, The Intellectual Government.
05:28pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23392 posts
Ministries gone, Citizenship, Multicultural Affairs, Science, International Development, Youth, Climate Change, Disability.

Ministries added, Border Protection.
05:52pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Mordecai
Victoria
1592 posts
Ministries gone, Citizenship, Multicultural Affairs, Science, International Development, Youth, Climate Change, Disability. Ministries added, Border Protection.

Gotta stop dem boats somehow. We needs more borderer protections son. We don't needs no science. Science is the work of the devil and them gays.
05:56pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23393 posts
Pesky science is waste and gets in the way of real progress and stopping the boats.
05:58pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36500 posts
the liberals really still do think its 1950 dont they?

cant have women in any positions of power, they just aren't up to the job!
05:58pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6303 posts
^ Further evidence that Julie Bishop is actually a man.
06:06pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8011 posts
Ministries gone, Citizenship, Multicultural Affairs, Science, International Development, Youth, Climate Change, Disability. Ministries added, Border Protection.

I'm actually getting nervous about the country's ability to endure this government...
06:09pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23394 posts
I sure was dumb calling the LNP out on their science-fearing.
06:15pm 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20524 posts
A reassuring and competent team. Cmon cmon let the good times roll.
06:19pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36502 posts
lolz, on the news tonite they mentioned that afghanistan has more female ministers than australia at the moment.
06:24pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2457 posts
There would have been 1 more if Sophie "hot lips" Mirabella made it in.
06:32pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
134 posts
No Minister for Science is better than the person they might appoint Minister of Science - http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/climate-sceptic-mp-dennis-jensen-wants-to-be-science-minister-20130912-2tltt.htmledit: wait, I thought you meant no Minister for Science yet, but there might not actually be a Minister for Science at all? lolzLNP, The Intellectual Government.


you're still going on about this? I prefer somebody with a PhD being science minister than some bulls****** like Al Gore or climate scientists. If you look at the actual radiation physics then the temperature will increase about 0.7-1.6 per century due to carbon dioxide. Even if we reduced our global emissions by 25% that would be about 0.5% of global emissions. So you're essentially spending billions of money to reduce global temperature by 1/1000 of a degree.



http://www.co2science.org/
06:36pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23395 posts
Hey guys, former homeless mental patient pjano has read some science papers he googled and has finally cracked the whole climate debate wide-open!

While the others froth, you just drool. Nice to have some variety I guess.
06:47pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8012 posts
I prefer somebody with a PhD being science minister

One who obviously didn't learn that their expertise in one matter doesn't give them expertise in another. If a dentist is disagreeing with the world's collective body of brain surgeons, and tries to sell themselves as equal because they have a medical degree, they are dishonest and an idiot.

or climate scientists

Because we can't have people from the field giving opinions which you don't like, oh no not at all, we can only have people from other fields giving opinions when it's what you want to hear.
06:49pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
135 posts
Because we can't have people from the field giving opinions which we don't like, oh no not at all, we can only have people from other fields giving you the opinion that you want.


There is a lot of money in climate science and their income depends on making data look like what the government wants to hear.

Good to see you guys commented within about 10 mins of posting that video and both your comments have nothing to do with science *facepalm*
06:52pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23396 posts
It's mainly because your posts have nothing to do with science either, except for avoiding it.

What is it with internet conspiracy retards all thinking they are the special case? They are the one who have finally cracked it and deserve to be listened to? There is no point trying to reason with you - you can't reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into in the first place. This is why you are mocked. Not because we just can't handle all the Earth shattering infos you are laying on us. The sooner you can accept that the sooner you can f*** off, so hurry up eh?
06:56pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8013 posts
There is a lot of money in climate science

Right, just like evolution, and the big bang, and vaccines, and fluoride, etc.

And there's no money in denying climate science, none at all.
06:56pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
136 posts
Right, just like evolution, and the big bang, and vaccines, etc.


LOL, there is not a lot of money in all of those fields you mentioned


It's mainly because your posts have nothing to do with science either


Ah, but I clearly just posted some strong rebuttal from inside sources which proves that CO2 and cow fart taxes are scams.
06:58pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8014 posts
LOL, there is not a lot of money in all of those fields you mentioned

Jesus christ. Ask any creationist or antivaxxer and they'll tell you the same thing as any of you climate change denialists are saying here, "Oh spooky implications about a lot of money, meaning I've just proved that the whole field is corrupt. btw let's ignore all the evangelical/mining money being thrown at denying these things."

A book for you pjano.
http://i.imgur.com/UVmQ7.jpg
07:06pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
137 posts
"Oh spooky implications about a lot of money, meaning I've just proved that the whole field is corrupt.


Post some facts and then I'll listen to you


I laughed at that picture btw
07:09pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14293 posts

infi asked earlier if I actually believed that the media bias was responsible for the LNP's win. At the time I said no, because the possibility just seemed ridiculous. So far in this thread a good reason backed up with evidence for voting LNP has not been posted. It's just been s*** parroted by what the papers have said - stuff about Rudd being a psychopath and other asinine s***. I guess there must be some rational LNP voters out there somewhere, and in infi's case he votes for LNP because he has benefited from corruption on their part in the past and it's the way daddy says to vote. The other vocal retards in this thread though - you've been easily duped by s***ty journalism. How stupid are you?


Because winning an election in Australian politics is not about who we want IN government, it is about how much we want to push the current government out.

Since we only have 2 viable governments (ie, ones that can win majority) the only alternative to the current government is the one constantly b****ing about how bad that government is. This is why we have Liberal in power, a government that has:


Ministries gone, Citizenship, Multicultural Affairs, Science, International Development, Youth, Climate Change, Disability. Ministries added, Border Protection.


What is next, Vaccinations sure are expensive and heavily based on science, f*** it, get rid of that.
07:10pm 16/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
508 posts
Looks like we now have to appoint women to cabinet, not based on their credentials/merit or ability but based on their gender.

Isn't that sexist in itself?
07:16pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8015 posts
Post some facts and then I'll listen to you

Hahahahahhaha, as opposed to your "There's a lot of money in climate science, the whole field is thus proven as corrupt" little factoids?

F*** me. Climate denialism brings out the absolute worst double-standard twats that society has to offer.
07:17pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
138 posts
Hahahahahhaha, as opposed to your "There's a lot of money in climate science, the whole field is thus proven as corrupt"


I didn't say the field is proven as corrupt because of that. I based it on that video which you refuse to watch.
07:20pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23397 posts
Hey, I wonder if this disparity of women in regards to other countries is because

a) there just aren't enough skilled women out there and it is YOU who is the real sexist for suggesting we should just hire those vapid c**** out of charity

or

b) because the leader of the LNP holds these sort of views

“What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up.”

"I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons"

"The problem with the Australian practice of abortion is that an objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother’s convenience."

"I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both they both need to be moderated, so to speak."

"While I think men and women are equal, they are also different and I think it's inevitable and I don't think it's a bad thing at all that we always have, say, more women doing things like physiotherapy and an enormous number of women simply doing housework"

"I want to make it clear that I do not judge or condemn any woman who has had an abortion, but every abortion is a tragedy and up to 100,000 abortions a year is this generation's legacy of unutterable shame."
It's a)
07:31pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14295 posts

"I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons"


There are research papers that have looked into gender based skills and found that it is more psychological conditioning than actual physiological differences.


Oh, but wait, Science.



07:35pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8016 posts
abortion is that an objectively grave matter

I don't think that Tony Abbott understands the word 'objective'. Just because his cult teaches that pre-neural cells have a mind through a magical soul doesn't make it an objective fact that there's anything more wrong with abortion than sneezing out snot or biting off nails.
07:46pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14296 posts
No Nerf, it is wrong. You speaking science again.


Speaking of sad, Clive Palmer has really embarrassed himself with all his winging and carrying about rigged elections. He should have just gracefully let the count happen and rally for the next election..
07:56pm 16/09/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1539 posts
YOU who is the real sexist for suggesting we should just hire those vapid c**** out of charity


The only vapid c**** I know of are Julie Bishop and Teresa Gambaro.

Bronwyn Bishop isn't vapid, I don't mind her because she reminds me of my late mother (wearing a hairdo she had 40 years ago).
08:35pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23399 posts
I believe this is the complete list

http://i.imgur.com/VYlMtdu.png'
08:58pm 16/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4462 posts
Speaking of sad, Clive Palmer has really embarrassed himself with all his winging and carrying about rigged elections. He should have just gracefully let the count happen and rally for the next election..


Isn't he still in front though?

Will he keep whinging if he actually wins? He should just shut up until the count is finalised.
09:15pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36504 posts
tone is just trimming the spending, by getting rid of ministers for unimportant things.

also, clive is gawn.
09:17pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
139 posts
2 years from now: the labor party will have finally have decided who is their leader
09:19pm 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20525 posts
Doesn't advance the case much when all of those Labor ministers cited were s***.
09:51pm 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20526 posts
Mental health and ageing has been replaced by health; mental health AND social services. 3 ministries. Haven't looked at how many other inaccuracies are in that colourful error ridden table.
09:59pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23400 posts
Source?

edit: I'm reading this and it seems to match up pretty well with that chart.

What did they replace science with?
10:14pm 16/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4463 posts
Scott Morrison - Immigration and Border Protection


The poison chalice. Poor Scott.
10:40pm 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20528 posts
Source?


Same source as yours. My mistake on Mental Health - it would be included in Social Services.

Kevin Andrews (Vic) - Social Services

Peter Dutton (Qld) - Health; Sport

it was laughable that the government could have a Minister for Status of Women. Ministers need to be doing real work, public servants to direct and legislation to administer - not just showing up a conferences. These are meaty portfolios which will keep the Ministers earning their pay - not just titles for show.
11:12pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23401 posts
Yeah but pretend for a minute that you aren't an idiot and that you agree climate change is a major problem. Don't you think those of us who think that way would be slightly concerned that a man who described climate science as 'absolute crap' has canned it along with the entire science ministry? Kind of reminds me of that scene in The Simpsons comet episode where they burn down the observatory so this never happens again!

So you're admitting that the further errors you described don't actually exist? Because how do you rationalise the loss of disability, resources and energy, tourism, multicultural affairs (wait I guess you wouldn't care about that because you're racist), youth, and housing and homelessness? Just merge 'em all together huh? Think of the savings!

Sounds dubious at best. Things like mental health and disability are major ongoing problems. Call me cynical, but there isn't a lot of money to be made in some of those cut departments and I have this terrible feeling that the LNP are making them disappear to help their faithful followers forget about them.

edit: you edited out the laughable climate change bit, but I saw it.
11:25pm 16/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20529 posts
Many of the titles have been renamed and finessed. Every government does that to tailor their own agenda. And I am not racist, you are racist, sexist and misogynist.
11:33pm 16/09/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3254 posts
climate change awareness is a fundamentalist Green policy and it deserves to bite the curb and be stomped on like a c***roach that just crawled out from under it's rock.

you're not going to save the planet by raising awareness in your scientific debate that it's a real threat to the future of the temperate planet. you're not going to get people to stop combusting fossil fuel's and you're sure as f*** not going to stop any progress of capitalist development with your green agenda.

so just stfu already fpot, you right wing nutcase. your political fanaticism seems to stem purely from some kind of insecure underlying issue that you have of always needing to be a part of some greater community mob hivemind that together are displaying morally party politics to be 'in the right' and it's just sad.

enough talking, thank f*** Q & A is over for another week. more doing.

last edited by trillion at 23:38:48 16/Sep/13
11:36pm 16/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23402 posts
You know you may be right about the merging. Maybe it's not too bad. I still find the whole lack of science ministry a bit alarming though. Why on earth would you get rid of that?

Hmm yeah I guess you could say I am those things because I am posting racist, sexist and misogynist things all the time. Like that time I said savagery was a part of middle-eastern culture and that middle-eastern people should be treated cruelly because savagery is all they understand. ohwai

edit: hey look, it's that unhinged ice-head who likes to post audio of himself getting absolutely served by his supposedly drunk girlfriend. You seem a bit angry bro, maybe you should give her a call so you can let off some steam. I guess you can't let of steam by beating your daughter up anymore hey?
11:37pm 16/09/13 Permalink
Vash
3848 posts
wow trillion, way to board the fail boat.

So you believe consuming and polluting this planet is the way to go, who gives a f*** right, because it wont affect you into old age?
11:48pm 16/09/13 Permalink
pjano
96 posts
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06:03am 17/09/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1206 posts
You know you may be right about the merging. Maybe it's not too bad. I still find the whole lack of science ministry a bit alarming though. Why on earth would you get rid of that?


Because the ministries aren't created and titled to further any particular agenda, they are created in a way that allows you to reward good service and keep as many people happy with as little dissention in the ranks as possible. If you can also use it as a basis for policy direction then that's a win :)
07:32am 17/09/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18769 posts
Why on earth would you get rid of that?


because it is being replaced with a ministry of religion silly
07:53am 17/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
277 posts
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10:45am 17/09/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1207 posts
A Daily Mail article linked in News.Com. There is a bastion of great non-biased reporting if ever I've seen it. Probably wait for the full report yeah?....
10:55am 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
141 posts
It's actually about 0.16C per decade but yeah it's not a major issue facing us.

I'm more worried about the general loss of biodiversity atm


edit: there's also the fact that coal and oil are non-renewable resources
01:06pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8017 posts
God dammit I hate you anti-science types with your strange crusade to misrepresent and interpret the data without any of the educational or professionals tools to do so.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/sep/16/climate-change-contrarians-5-stages-denial

Can't you all just go hang out on a creationist forum or something and circlejerk over how much evolution has been proven untrue and the earth is definitely 6000 years old? What in the flying f*** causes you lot to descend on ausgamers with this consistency?
02:02pm 17/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23404 posts
The really amusing thing is that when pjano first started posting he tried to portray himself as someone in the science field who reads papers for a living. He thought that would give him the required credibility to start drooling away with his climate change denying garbage.
02:13pm 17/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
510 posts
lol my post is nuked for being "off-topic" yet is completely on topic and all proceeding posts discussing my posts are allowed to remain.

This seems to be a recurring pattern. I know some mods don't like what i have to say, but i'm not breaking any rules and my posts are most certainly on topic.
04:18pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14313 posts

Major General Campbell will have the powers to bypass normal Defence Force command structures and will report directly to the immigration minister.


Lol getting the military to bypass military command structures, every book I've read that does something like that usually ends up with zombies or something. It can't be good...

06:12pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
142 posts
God dammit I hate you anti-science types with your strange crusade to misrepresent and interpret the data without any of the educational or professionals tools to do so.?


You accused me of misinterpreting data and then posted something completely irrelevant to what I said but anyway, why are you calling me anti-science when I'm looking at data? It's really quite amazing how you pretend you're an expert. It's also amusing watching fpot try to claim that I claimed I was an expert. I'll now address the data and article that you have provided.

Firstly, why would Rupert Murdoch be hiding climate change when he can make so much money out of it?

Secondly, arctic ice is melting yes. There wasn't actually any arctic ice there 8000 years ago and in the medieval warm period. It's also very unknown what is happening in the Antarctic.

Thirdly, tell me why there was such a drop in the ocean heat content in the 1960s. This could be a sine wave that I'm looking at.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Greenland_Gisp2_Temperature.svg
Greenland Temp
06:57pm 17/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20530 posts
Pjano, you sound a lot like SheerObesity.
07:07pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8018 posts
There wasn't actually any arctic ice there 8000 years ago and in the medieval warm period.

I love that you're quoting what climate scientists have found about the past, in an argument which is supposed to convince us not to listen to climate scientists. The self-defeating irony has reached a new threshold.

You accused me of misinterpreting data

Actually, I accused you of being a lord-monkton-citing idiot. I doubt that you're even educated enough in the relevant fields to know how to interpret the data.

My real question however is why the hell do you guys descend on the ausgamers general forum specifically like a pack of rabid creationists out to prove evolution untrue? Is faceman broadcasting that the good fight must be brought here on some climate conspiracy forum or something?
07:11pm 17/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
511 posts
Pjano, you sound a lot like SheerObesity.



Or he's just responding the same way anyone would to a person like "Nerf Stormborn" who whips out titles like " anti-science people" while trying to change the subject and twist words.
07:13pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
143 posts
Actually, I accused you of being a lord-monkton-citing idiot. ... My real question however is why the hell do you guys descend on the ausgamers general forum specifically like a pack of rabid creationists out to prove evolution untrue?


What's wrong with the video by Christopher Monckton? Also I am confused, where did I say evolution is untrue? lol, that's dumber than saying antibiotic resistance is untrue.


p.s. I loved the part where you didn't respond to any of my questions. Keep doing that
07:16pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8019 posts
Also I am confused, where did I say evolution is untrue? lol

Gotta be a troll. Nobody could have that poor a level of reading comprehension.
07:31pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
144 posts
Nobody could have that poor a level of reading comprehension.


so you're saying that I am the same as somebody that says evolution is untrue?
07:53pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8020 posts
so you're saying that I am the same as somebody that says evolution is untrue?

Yep, step for step, and antivaxxers and so on. You:

* Trot out your line of Ken Hams/Lord Monktons, while never citing anybody with any actual relevant expertise, educationally and professionally, and expect us to just ignore the huge body of accomplished scientists and scientific institutions who have given their professional verification on the work, trying to paint this dishonest picture that the science wasn't settled by anybody who is relevant long ago.
* Insist that there's a conspiracy in science and make vague insinuations about there 'being money (or silly idealism) in it' (despite there being a s***load of money and ideological frothing behind creationism and climate science rejection)
* Constantly post misleading "gotchya" moments about the conspiracy in science (evolutionary biologists faking skulls, climate scientists faking data, etc).
* Post s***** videos and say "see, evolution/climate science proven false by my super awesome uneducated science-doing skills"
* Cite lists of engineers and people from completely unrelated fields as 'scientists who disagree'
* Have your line up of terribad ultra-conservative politicians making comments about how we didn't evolve from monkeys, about how carbon dioxide is invisible and odourless lawl, and so on.
* Are being led around by the nose by the same 'thinktanks' who previously worked for the tobacco industry to use these same tactics against research which showed smoking caused cancer, now employed by the mining CEOs.

etc. etc. etc.
08:05pm 17/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37366 posts
Please do not drag this off topic again; this thread is not science education for illiterates - it is to discuss the election and political situation. I'm not interested in another climate change discussion and I'm sure everyone else isn't either.
08:19pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
101 posts
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08:28pm 17/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11160 posts
08:28pm 17/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
5272 posts
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08:30pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
102 posts
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08:36pm 17/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11161 posts
What did trog just say motherf*****s?
08:37pm 17/09/13 Permalink
t
Brisbane, Queensland
249 posts
Trog, serious opinion here. I think that you should consider banning some of these recent emigrés. It can be amusing to have one of this type of poster, but if this continues, our regulars will tire of having to argue common sense to people who won't change their views. The regulars might then stop posting.

Food for thought anyway

last edited by t at 21:12:50 17/Sep/13
09:11pm 17/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20532 posts
That's a pretty elitist point of view^

I welcome all newcomers.
09:16pm 17/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
512 posts
That's a pretty elitist point of view^I welcome all newcomers.


His attitude is a pretty common one on this forum.

Most of the people complaining about Tony Abbot are people who didn't vote for him and would never vote for him. They just can't accept the election result.

It's really sad. Operation sovereign borders commences tomorrow with the swearing in of our new government. Exciting times!
09:29pm 17/09/13 Permalink
pjano
147 posts
I think that you should consider banning some of these recent emigrés.


Most of the GA people have already left. I will leave if I am not wanted here. Apologies for any brain damage suffered from reading the above 'debate.'

anyway regarding Julie Bishop / cabinet women thing I reckon there is a difference between equity and equality. Just because you have the opportunity to achieve equal representation doesn't mean you are entitled to equal representation no matter what.
09:34pm 17/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20533 posts
Politics is a cage fight. Every contender must fight their way to the top. If you were promoted to Cabinet out of a sense of gender equity that's not really winning the cage fight. And furthermore there would be no respect from colleagues.
09:57pm 17/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11162 posts
The new cabinet having only one woman is a result of the fact that there are few women of experience in the LNP. That's simply because the LNP as a party doesn't appeal to educated women, whereas Labor and The Greens clearly do.
10:08pm 17/09/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10124 posts
The new cabinet having only one woman is a result of the fact that there are few women of experience in the LNP. That's simply because the LNP as a party doesn't appeal to educated women, whereas Labor and The Greens clearly do.



dais are you suggesting that women are possibly just as capable as men?


10:57pm 17/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11163 posts
I think we all know their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons.
11:13pm 17/09/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10125 posts
please.. explain that to us.
11:16pm 17/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11164 posts
Most of it is a Tony Abbott quote koopz, I was being sarcastic.
08:59am 18/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
513 posts
Well Tony Abbot and his new government have been sworn in.

It's time to stop the boats and pay back the debt.
11:16am 18/09/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2145 posts
Tony Abbott has announced the sacking of three public service chiefs and a major shake-up of the federal bureaucracy in the first few hours since being sworn in as Prime Minister.

Dr Don Russell lost his job as head of the Department of Innovation, Industry Science and Research; Blair Comley was the head of the Resources, Energy and Tourism Department; and Andrew Metcalfe, a former Immigration Department chief, has been sacked as head of the Agriculture Department.
03:30pm 18/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
514 posts
"Abbort sworn in, bureaucrats sacked"

Cashing cheques and breaking necks. This is what i like to see. Time to end the public service waste.

Come on baby let the good times roll.
03:34pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11166 posts
Those left-wing nutcases at the ABC have done it again: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-18/dunlop-the-intelligent-design-of-tony-abbotts-new-cabinet/4965704

Their particular bugbears are evolution and the science of climate change, and so it is no surprise that the new cabinet no longer has a minister for climate change, or that the science portfolio, originally introduced into Australian cabinets in 1931, is being watered down with industry and education. (And don't be at all surprised to see a push for "intelligent design" to be included in school curriculums.)


Regular Australians who read Murdoch drivel seriously have no idea what they're in for. Be prepared for a full on transformation of the nation in to the southern United States.
06:07pm 18/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20537 posts
yeah intelligent design right....
06:15pm 18/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
515 posts
Must be another Murdoch Media conspiracy.
06:29pm 18/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8024 posts
Tony Abbot has appointed himself the head of the women's issues portfolio. A devout catholic with a terrible history of misogynistic comments has just put himself in charge of overseeing issues on IVF, abortion, gender inequality, etc...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/tony-abbott-womens-minister-portfolio

Ironically, the description for the position was previously "ensuring women's voices are heard at all levels of decision making."
06:51pm 18/09/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8139 posts
06:53pm 18/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23407 posts
Science, research, innovation, tourism, the impending climate change crisis... areas of small importance.

A handful of brown people arriving to seek a better life... STOP THE BOATS.

LNP, the Got its Priorities Right Government.
07:14pm 18/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14325 posts
O wow, Abbot in charge of Women's issues portfolio, even a staunch Liberal supporter can see the fail in that.

'I care about the Womens, look I'm even in charge of their portfolio, because women need a strong male steering the ship'


^^ Waiting for a comment like that from Mr. Abott lol
07:41pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11171 posts
WTF, that is going to cause a huge backlash. He will be forced to create a new minister position and have another woman in the cabinet.
07:43pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11172 posts
Oh I get, I see it now. Julie Bishop has been stroking Tony's ego all along and put him up to this. He will make such a fool of himself this time that he will be forced to resign and Julie (notice the similarity to Julia) will stab him in the back and steal his job. It's all suddenly become so clear!
07:50pm 18/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20538 posts
She'll be right mate. You sound worried.
07:55pm 18/09/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4468 posts
I welcome all newcomers.


Well now you don't really do you, you're a LNP stop the boats stalwart.

"Abbort sworn in, bureaucrats sacked" Cashing cheques and breaking necks. This is what i like to see. Time to end the public service waste. Come on baby let the good times roll.


I bet you recorded the whole ceremony for playback while you Tickle your Taco
07:56pm 18/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37372 posts
Those left-wing nutcases at the ABC have done it again: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-18/dunlop-the-intelligent-design-of-tony-abbotts-new-cabinet/4965704



Regular Australians who read Murdoch drivel seriously have no idea what they're in for. Be prepared for a full on transformation of the nation in to the southern United States.
What a ridiculous opinion piece. Not even the most ardent anti-Liberal supporter could believe ID is on their agenda.
08:37pm 18/09/13 Permalink
MurdochMediaConspiracy
Melbourne, Victoria
516 posts
Science, research, innovation, tourism, the impending climate change crisis... areas of small importance.A handful of brown people arriving to seek a better life... STOP THE BOATS.LNP, the Got its Priorities Right Government.


The government must be abandoning Science, research, innovation, tourism etc if they don't have a minister and 5,000 bureaucrats allocated to it!
08:42pm 18/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20540 posts
Dais bought it hook line and sinker. Speaks volumes.
08:43pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11173 posts
I disagree, I wouldn't put anything past those people.
08:43pm 18/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23408 posts
The government must be abandoning Science, research, innovation, tourism etc if they don't have a minister and 5,000 bureaucrats allocated to it!
Strawman logical fallacy
08:45pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11174 posts
Seriously, I will not be the least bit surprised if intelligent design gets snuck in by someone somewhere. I'm not saying Tony Abbott will champion intelligent design in schools or something insane, but some underhanded support for teachers proselytizing is not much of a stretch. The desire of many religious people to convert others should not be underestimated.
08:47pm 18/09/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20541 posts
Dais, not even the ACL has lobbied for that. Stop being so retarded.

So fpot are you stating that the government is or is not neglecting the policies areas you referred to?
08:54pm 18/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8025 posts
There's no indication of them going that way currently, so I'm not worried about that.

Abbott is a devout Catholic and Catholic leaders often believe in forms of intelligent design (Cardinal Pell being one, who seems to be close to Abbott). Annoyingly they call it 'evolution', but then describe intelligent design (creator-driven evolution, instead of probability, which is basically really all that evolution is about), but eh, there's been no indications that way. Then again, Abbott was crazy enough to put himself in as the person responsible for women's issues, so I guess it wouldn't be completely shocking to me at this point, given the strong anti-science bent in their party.
08:58pm 18/09/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11175 posts
Yeah I thought you would weigh in with something like that Nerf.

That move with the women's issues portfolio is so shockingly ignorant and self absorbed that I wouldn't put anything past them at this stage.
09:03pm 18/09/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
8026 posts
Seems he is a traditional Catholic on this, rejects evolution for an intelligent design version: http://www.saltshakers.org.au/component/content/article/49-christianity-and-politics/592-tony-abbott

"I don't say that evolution is a complete and entirely satisfactory scientific explanation of the origin of man."

Along with flustered avoidance of other questions on the issue.

They have made some rumblings about getting control of the school syllabus as well, to take it away from leftists or somesuch.
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/sep/05/tony-abbott/what-flavour-history-will-australian-children-stud/
09:07pm 18/09/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23409 posts
That move with the women's issues portfolio is so shockingly ignorant and self absorbed that I wouldn't put anything past them at this stage.
Pretty much this. They seem to be setting new precedents for stupidity every few days.

infi, going by the fact that every Abbott poster in this thread so far is bordering on scientific illiteracy, and how Abbott has called settled science like that thing that shall not be mentioned in this thread absolute crap, I will say that yes I am concerned about the downsizing and streamlining of multiple areas of science . A non issue like boat people receiving so much prominence is mock-worthy which is responsible for the tone of that post I guess.
09:11pm 18/09/13 Permalink
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Brisbane, Queensland
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09:18pm 18/09/13 Permalink
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09:22pm 18/09/13 Permalink
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10:37pm 18/09/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37373 posts
well, that was fun while it lasted. Next time please try to follow directions to not drag off topic.
10:39pm 18/09/13 Permalink
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