Closing out the Sony pre-E3 press briefing with Insomniac’s take on Spider-Man was both bold and brave, but did it do enough to satisfy the hardcore?
Spider-Man is Sony’s Trump Card, but is it Enough?
Nintendo Returns this Holiday with a Tiny Version of Everyone's Favourite 16-Bit Console
Nintendo Classic Mini SNES Announced!
Your one stop shop for Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Bethesda, EA, Ubisoft, and Indie Game goodness!
AusGamers@E3 - All of our Showcases
E3 has come and gone, with many new exiting games to look forward to. Here, we cover the stuff we didn't see.
The E3 2017 No-Showcase aka 9 Things We Didn’t See
Kevin Rudd: rebooted ?
Vash
3765 posts
While i support helping refugees as our ancestors were all refugees, I'd like to know at what point do we say we're doing enough to help them, as surely we can't expect to take in everyone that arrives on our shores. The issue is having a huge influx of refugees coming here, or termed, economic refugees, those who don't genuinely need to flee. How do we sort them out from the genuine ones, and keep the numbers under control? Our small population can only intake certain numbers on top of immigration without causing low paid employment issues and them becoming a burden on the system.

What is the correct solution? If we don't take a hard line approach, people will desperately make the trip, and people will die. The hardline aapproach, people will seek refuge closer to their home country, or in other regions of their country.

I'm open minded to either side of the argument
07:41pm 22/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1695 posts
However under Rudd's policy, a refugee will never set foot on Australia, never get protection in Australia and never be resettled in Australia.


You can't eat your cake and keep it too. Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison say the opposite. Stop pretending that the LNP leadership is any different from the ALP in their desperation to say anything and get elected.

Rudd has thrown the ALP left under the bus with this policy. If you were worried about stopping boats then you got what you wanted.
07:45pm 22/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14196 posts
this is where i get off the do gooder bandwagoncall me a bigot or whatever the f*** you want fpot, there are any number of countries they can stop in while they travel half way around the world to get to indonesia to get refuge from conflict/whateverbut no, it is nicer in australia so that is the aim of the game - f*** that

You are a bigot and worse, you're completely ignorant on the issue of course. Indonesia isn't a party state to the UNHCR so refugees are not protected there at all?

Even if they were, and there's some farcical members like Rwanda and Afghanistan lol, why would or should a refugee stop in a backwater religious state, the kind of s***hole they are fleeing? Wouldn't you go for the best option within your reach if you and your family were on the run?

Of course, that's the whole game plan isn't it guys? Its been said here over and over. Be s***** enough to refugees that we are no longer a nice place to flee to. Don't be s***** enough to be called out by the International Community as a pack of selfish, xenophobic c****.

The whole issue is about not wanting people to come here, and it has nothing to do with the maritime safety of refugees, what a crock of s*** that line is. Should we indefinitely detain the survivors of every tragic incident where a boat is overloaded as a deterrent?

I've made my point and I reckon I'm out, shame on you all, your entitlement is based on an accident of birth, all humans are entitled to dignity and respect.
07:59pm 22/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23059 posts
call me a bigot or whatever the f*** you want fpot, there are any number of countries they can stop in
There certainly are. Countries like France and Canada where instead of being detained for an average of 224 days, they only have to suffer 10 days of detention. I'd hazard a guess that France and Canada aren't full of silly inbred hicks like our country as well who seem to think that asylum seekers are some unique little problem our country has and that we are some shining beacon that all the browns flock to for our dole and healthcare. Australia only take in a tiny amount compared to other countries. Basically any first world country will do.

Are you seriously suggesting that they should up and leave from their developing nation where they can't get proper food/water/health/education and just move to some other developing country that has the exact same problems? The whole idea of fleeing their country and moving to a different one is so they can make their lives better and give themselves a chance of being happy.

source for some of the stuff I just said.
08:01pm 22/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18477 posts
Are you seriously suggesting that they should up and leave from their developing nation where they can't get proper food/water/health/education and just move to some other developing country that has the exact same problems? The whole idea of fleeing their country and moving to a different one is so they can make their lives better and give themselves a chance of being happy.


how cute and warm and fuzzy <3
08:03pm 22/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14197 posts
how cute and warm and fuzzy <3

Just own it, you don't like refugees coming here and taking our jerbs, ayuck!
08:05pm 22/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23060 posts
I'd rather be accused of being warm and fuzzy then be what you are - someone who is so easily led by the media to believe a pile of absolute bulls***. It's like you think your level of credulousness and willful ignorance is something to be celebrated. Why?

edit: is it because you've made such a huge emotional investment in your try-hard cynical yet wrong position and it would just be too much of a hit on your pride to reverse it or something? I am just trying to understand here.
08:08pm 22/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3038 posts
who me? i just love refoogee's on a case by case basis
08:23pm 22/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18479 posts
Just own it, you don't like refugees coming here and taking our jerbs, ayuck!


none of them are going to take my jerb, but i'm going to be paying for them, probably forever if we let the perpetual tide of anyone that finds them self born in a developing country in as fpot would clearly have it - am i right there fpot? because you just said it pretty much

I'd rather be accused of being warm and fuzzy then be what you are


the comment also comes with delusional tagged along

open the borders bro, your opinion is the only correct one as you see it

lul
08:25pm 22/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1912 posts
facts and emotion.

some real figures not an infographic.

if you going to look at over the last 10 years years how many people around the world have actually agreed to accept and resettle permanently ?

#1 USA 531916 people
#2 canada 111451 people
#3 australia 108976 people
#4 sweden 16289 people
#5 norway 11036 people

france 444 people
UK 3460 people
japan 67 people
singapore 0
hong kong 0
indonesia 0
korea 0


just because other countries host large numbers of people claiming to be refugees (which isn't suprising seeing as we're surrounded by ocean) doesn't mean they are anywhere near as accepting for permanent resettlement as australia is - in fact for a percentage of population size we have accepted more than anyone. yeah the truth hurts donnit.
09:13pm 22/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1913 posts
09:14pm 22/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3039 posts
could you dumb it down a shade for me
09:39pm 22/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1914 posts
http://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/a-unique-look-at-the-boat-people-problem-in-australia/

is that better ?

don't want to be associated with bogans now so jump on the bandwagon.

hey fpot ?

you dipstick

There certainly are. Countries like France and Canada where instead of being detained for an average of 224 days, they only have to suffer 10 days of detention. I'd hazard a guess that France and Canada aren't full of silly inbred hicks like our country as well who seem to think that asylum seekers are some unique little problem our country has and that we are some shining beacon that all the browns flock to for our dole and healthcare. Australia only take in a tiny amount compared to other countries. Basically any first world country will do.


wrongggg again
10:13pm 22/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3040 posts
are we seriously talking politics? so boring.
10:25pm 22/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
938 posts
Cainer I think you might be cherry picking there a little.

France is also currently hosting 200,000 refugees compared to our 20,000.

Also looking through the data you just posted it seems like the number of refugees turning up in Australia has remained largely consistent from the 70's somewhere in the 14k to 20k mark.

F*** if it was manageable in the 70's why isn't it now?

Also Fpot, turn it down a little bit mate. Calling everyone in the country who doesn't think open boarders is the solution an inbred racist is not very productive.
10:42pm 22/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10094 posts
Those are illegal entrants

whatever ... you are still making it someone else's problem.

So infi if they were to drown on their way back to whereever would that be more or less cruel than PNG ?
I mean you are playing the compasionate card at the moment ....
10:43pm 22/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10489 posts
Stephen Conroy got up in Caucus today and called out to Rudd "you promised to change your ways, this isn't a good start"

11:04pm 22/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3766 posts
And thanks to the powers that be that Stephen Conroy is no longer Communications minister.
11:52pm 22/07/13 Permalink
t
Brisbane, Queensland
243 posts
And thanks to the powers that be that Stephen Conroy is no longer Communications minister.


Probably one of the best outcomes of the past month
12:00am 23/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10490 posts
heres how Israel unloads refugees:
Ynet reports that the government is close to inking a deal with three African states (who are likely Ethiopia, South Sudan, and Uganda) who will take “tens of thousands” of ‘undesirable’ African refugees from Israel in return to Israeli weapons and training.


http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/07/16/israel-to-sign-deal-offering-military-weapons-training-to-african-states-in-return-for-taking-ten-of-thousands-of-unwanted-african-refugees/

http://i1.wp.com/www.davidsheen.com/racism/images/package.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=504,336


oh those crazy Jews.
12:29am 23/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3041 posts
seem's like a 90's / Panama thing

Does that anti-semite even keep a blog or is all this off the polarized US polly blog rolls?

who's up for a photo junket to Gaza? Time and Getty need some new high res

01:15am 23/07/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4260 posts
being from a poor or war-torn country perhaps doesn't automatically entitle you to resettlement in the best country you can possibly think of

but PNG? that's a bit harsh, I don't imagine they are rolling out the welcome mat for a predominantly mulim, middle-eastern refugee community somewhere like Port Moresby

maybe they should give a do-over to the people who were already on their way here when it was announced, and assess them under the old compassionate (cough) policy
03:34am 23/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3212 posts
I think there is a huge difference between asylum seekers and boat people. Don't the majority of asylum seekers arrive here through proper means?

I think it's a good thing to discourage dangerous and illegal human smuggling racquets that lead to deaths and I don't believe it makes someone a bigot or a xenophobe to think that.

People are dying in those boats and they are being taken advantage of by some serious scum. I don't see this issue as being about asylum seekers but about the method used to arrive. Sure they have the right to use whatever means necessary to seek asylum but that doesn't mean that dangerous and illegal methods shouldn't be strongly discouraged.
09:36am 23/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10492 posts

According to the latest Newspoll survey, taken exclusively for The Australian last weekend, Labor’s rise in primary vote steadied, going from 38 to 37 per cent, while the Coalition’s rose to a four-week high of 45 per cent, up three percentage points.

Based on preference flows at the 2010 election the Coalition now leads Labor on a two-party-preferred basis, 52 to 48 per cent, after Labor had fought back to 50-50 two weeks ago.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/after-the-coup-the-resurrection-comes-to-a-halt-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226683443409

Honeymoon is over.
11:44am 23/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3767 posts
It's over. We're going to have an extreme conservative PM by the end of the year :( Unless Abbott really f**** up the pre election debates.
03:51pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4379 posts
What you think he he is got room to possibly f*** up more? Truth is mate if he hasnt turned people off yet he probably isnt goingto, short of being accused of being a kiddy fiddler.
04:14pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7972 posts
F*** if it was manageable in the 70's why isn't it now?

Because our infrastructure isn't keeping up, economies are different, and we have a much different level of what's acceptable in terms of government services, standard of living etc.
04:24pm 23/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3050 posts
keep on rollin' baby, you know what time it is.
04:35pm 23/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20200 posts
http://www.2gb.com/gallery/photos-christmas-island

They are real photos, you make of it what you will.
04:42pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4381 posts
What exactly are those pictures suposed to be showing infi? Apart from the obvious people getting off a boat.
04:52pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6198 posts
2GB (the great unbiased beacon of the asylum seeker issue) seems to be implying that they kinda look like tourists and therefore not legitimate refugees. Real refugees wear dirty brown rags and look like they just escaped from Auschwitz, right?
05:02pm 23/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3214 posts
Tourists? It looks like an American football team with all of those steroids, I know things are tough over there but surely Canada is closer.

Or even Cuba.
05:06pm 23/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20201 posts
Some of those dudes definitely lift.
05:23pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6199 posts
Hey, the boat ain't gonna row itself.
05:31pm 23/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4384 posts
Tourists? It looks like an American football team with all of those steroids, I know things are tough over there but surely Canada is closer.Or even Cuba.



Hey at least by the looks of it they brought a couple of cheer leaders with them.

Dazhel your comment cracked me up, best post of the night :-)
06:20pm 23/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3052 posts
slowest boat to China I have ever seen
07:12pm 23/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
191 posts
Immigrants have to malnourished as proof that they have been persecuted because you see people who are healthy obviously haven't had their lives threatened because
08:18am 24/07/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6588 posts
old mate in 2nd last pic doesn't even squat.
09:08am 24/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1704 posts
Hey, the boat ain't gonna row itself.



Oh dude, you went there.
12:47pm 24/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13988 posts
So, I decided to actually look into the closest factual information about this 'issue'. I've totally convinced myself this:

Australians are totally blowing this out of proportion.

Taken from a pretty darn reliable source:

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees: Asylum Trends 2012

A few choice bits of data:

Australia takes in a 3% share of Asylum Applications in 2012, For the years 08-2012 it was .. 3% So for 5 years it hasn't really increased.

Canada and US take in a whopping 22% share.

Per capita we edge them out though. Austria beats us both on actual applications and per capita, 4% share with 2.1 applications per 1000 citizens compared to Australia's 0.7

A large portion (55%) of the 2012 Applicants came from
Afghanistan
Sri Lanka
Islamic Rep. of Iran
Pakistan




So what we are doing, sending them off shore to be processed in detention centers for years on end is totally unethical and a piss poor effort. I understand the need to detain applicants as not all applicants are accepted. However our country should be devoting more resources into process these people much, much faster. We receive our fair share of applicants. We are NOT targeted as the best place to go, Sweden seems much nicer for instance.

The real debate our Government and major parties should be discussing is not 'How do we turn back/decrease the boats' but how do we best process these people so they are given a fair chance in a ,Reasonable amount of time AND how do we best place them in Australia to best integrate them into our society at minimal disruption to us and them.

Anything less is shameful.
02:03pm 24/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13989 posts
An interactive visual representation of Historical Refugee data up to and including 2012:


http://data.unhcr.org/dataviz/
02:14pm 24/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10498 posts
Kevin Rudd Vs Andrew Bolt
The Bolt Report
10.30am + 4.30pm Sunday on TEN

Confirmed today: Kevin Rudd will be my guest on The Bolt Report on Sunday, as first arranged a fortnight before he became Prime Minister.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/rudd_on_the_bolt_report_on_sunday/
04:22pm 24/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20210 posts
can you please develop your argument a little?
12:25pm 25/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3769 posts
All you need to do is read that. If nothing bad enters your mind, you're as liberal biased as it gets.
So, what exactly can the military do with the boats to avoid becoming a taxi service, exactly? Detain them, turn them back? Yeah that's really worked well in the past.
12:40pm 25/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10500 posts
Maximus gives his view on Abbott:

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/05/04/1226049/734885-russell-crowe.jpg


http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/crowe-calls-for-turnbull-to-lead-coalition/story-e6frfku9-1226684909436

Id be worried if I Was Turnbull, it was only a few weeks ago that Maximus was giving the thumbs up for Gillard.
01:05pm 25/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6202 posts
So the Stop The Boats Commander reports to the immigration department instead of the defence department via the CDF. What happens when the immigration minister and foreign minister give conflicting directives?
Seems like the coast guard you have when you're not having a coast guard.
01:07pm 25/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10501 posts
Dahzel the Americans have used a similar method to return Cubans.
This isn't some unique thought bubble, it works overseas why not here ?
01:19pm 25/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3770 posts
Because we already tried turning the boats back with the military... They will just get agro, people will die, etc etc.
02:08pm 25/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1915 posts
Australia takes in a 3% share of Asylum Applications in 2012, For the years 08-2012 it was .. 3% So for 5 years it hasn't really increased. Canada and US take in a whopping 22% share. Per capita we edge them out though. Austria beats us both on actual applications and per capita, 4% share with 2.1 applications per 1000 citizens compared to Australia's 0.7


how about stop cherry picking data. find some stats about how many asylum applications are GRANTED and given permanent resettlement. anyone can accept an application.
04:02pm 25/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
194 posts
02:28pm 26/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1916 posts
what a stupid cartoon. australia accepts more refugees for permanent resettlement than any other country in the industrialised world per capita.

there is an orderly way of gaining asylum to australia, it doesn't involve paying $20000 to an indonesian to put you on a leaky boat with enough fuel for a one way journey. absolute full retard cartoons like this made by tree hugging hippies that dont know s*** from clay don't suprise me in the disinformation campaign out there.
03:03pm 26/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20218 posts
file that under asinine^
03:03pm 26/07/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
889 posts
can you please develop your argument a little?

This is an excellent response: http://ada.asn.au/commentary/formal-comment/2013/oppositions-plan-to-combat-people-smuggling.html

The military are not trained to use the minimum force to accomplish a goal.

I'd also recommend reading or listening to this: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3811134.htm - the former chief of the Australian Defense Force makes it clear that at best Abbot's plan will be a slight improvement in the organisation of the anti-people smuggling effort, in exchange for a dangerous move towards militarisation of a domestic law and order issue. It will also have the side effect of offending our serving and retired military by inappropriately using military terminology for a campaign slogan.
03:14pm 26/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23071 posts
what a stupid cartoon. australia accepts more refugees for permanent resettlement than any other country in the industrialised world per capita.

there is an orderly way of gaining asylum to australia, it doesn't involve paying $20000 to an indonesian to put you on a leaky boat with enough fuel for a one way journey. absolute full retard cartoons like this made by tree hugging hippies that dont know s*** from clay don't suprise me in the disinformation campaign out there.
gurgle gurgle gurgle froth.

I love it.
03:22pm 26/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1917 posts
There certainly are. Countries like France and Canada where instead of being detained for an average of 224 days, they only have to suffer 10 days of detention. I'd hazard a guess that France and Canada aren't full of silly inbred hicks like our country as well who seem to think that asylum seekers are some unique little problem our country has and that we are some shining beacon that all the browns flock to for our dole and healthcare. Australia only take in a tiny amount compared to other countries. Basically any first world country will do.


^remember dat ?

if anyone is gurgling s***, its you fpot. non differentiating clay aficionados such as yourself are the perfect target audience mass disinformation campaign currently underway. does it feel good being a sheep ?
03:32pm 26/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23072 posts
Yeah man, I am just a little sheeple all scared and alone on the internets :( Only when I have become a reddit mra posting, 9/11 truther believing, victimised frothing cry baby will I reach the peak of true enlightenment that cainer, beacon of truth for the QGL forums, has reached.

Stick to your reddit echo chamber buddy, where no matter how wrong you are there will always be someone willing to jerk you off. You seem to get a bit flustered when you post elsewhere and I hate to see you suffer.
03:37pm 26/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10508 posts
Towing boats will never work because first thing Id do if I was the captain would be to sink the boat.

The truth is there is no solution unless Indonesia shuts down the Organised Crime of people smuggling. Tell Indonesia no aid until you stop the boats.
Im pretty sure they'd stop overnight.
Might be tough love but its about time our backward neighbours started taking Australia seriously.

I think the New Guinea PM is playing Labor and the Coalition off against each other. Prolly Indonesia too. We need to stop being a doormat and sensitive to our neighbours feelings and showing some Leadership in the region.
03:46pm 26/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14007 posts
Cainer, whilst we do resettle roughly 60000 refuges per year is that not an insignificant amount compared to our population. Do we really need all this b****ing and moaning to what amounts to 6000 resettled people per year, some of which come by boat (I bet mostly not though).

The people on the boats are not skipping a queue, they are getting jammed into a detention center to be processed along with all the other applicants.

The only real issue here is that these people coming via boat are taking a high risk of their boat sinking, allegedly paying large sums of money to do so, most likely without the full knowledge of what is very likely going to be a 2+ year wait to find out that NOPE they are not getting resettled, k thx bye.

Of which my original stance remains, Australia really needs to pull their finger out and process these people faster, if they came by boat or not. the UNHCR has a figure of a 12 months processing time for non-urgent claims, not years and years.

This is hardly a crisis, or lol a 'National Emergency', gg Tony and Rudd, trump it up more.
03:52pm 26/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3081 posts
boat people. only a problem for the immigration minister and the families and victims of those that get f***ed up on the rocks.

why are you dogs rabidly frothing over the issue so much? are they your family?
04:00pm 26/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1918 posts
australia has settled on average 13000 per year under howard, rudd and gillard and from last year it was raised to 20000. i'm sick of people putting s*** on australia for accepting per capita more than anyone else. wheres all the s*** directed at new zealand, singapore, japan, korea, all of europe, america, canada ? they aren't doing as much to resettle as australia is yet everyone uses them as the prime examples of how good they all are and how racist australia is.

if politicians are using over emotional terms to portray their point of view, its nothing compared to the greenie view of we're all racist bigots who don't want dem ferreners to tek err jerbs.

The only real issue here is that these people coming via boat are taking a high risk of their boat sinking, allegedly paying large sums of money to do so, most likely without the full knowledge of what is very likely going to be a 2+ year wait to find out that NOPE they are not getting resettled, k thx bye.


so the real issue is how do you stop people paying billion of dollars to criminal syndicates in south east asia ? what if the whole reason for them existing ie. resettlement in australia, no longer exists for people who arrive via people smugglers ? if i knew i was getting a 1 way ticket to PNG for my $20000 i wouldn't be going.
04:08pm 26/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6435 posts
I read somewhere today that there are 45 million people seeking asylum (or a better life economically). I was actually suprised it wasn't 450 million.

We live in a great country and people are willing to die to get here, so what sense does it make to encourage people to commit suicide?
04:13pm 26/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
939 posts
if you exclude your bracketed text slaps_forehead, it becomes much more understandable. Seeking asylum and seeking a better life style are absolutely not the same thing.
04:32pm 26/07/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6975 posts
so the real issue is how do you stop people paying billion of dollars to criminal syndicates in south east asia ?
We run our own people-smuggling boats! :P
04:38pm 26/07/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8242 posts
If you really want to stop boats coming out of Indonesia, let them apply for asylum at our Jakarta embassy.
04:53pm 26/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
316 posts
Their is a process for them to apply for asylum in their own countries of origin via the UNHCR yet they refuse to follow it because they don't like the waiting times. It's just queue jumping plain and simple.

Because we already tried turning the boats back with the military... They will just get agro, people will die, etc etc.


And it worked. People are already dying.

We shouldn't be letting these people in. We have already seen their behavior in detention. Raping, rioting, torturing which is just excused with "ohhh it's because they are locked up in detention and are desperate" They clearly aren't genuine.

What a load of crap.
06:57pm 26/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23073 posts
oops I forgot my policy
07:43pm 26/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10097 posts
australia has settled on average 13000 per year under howard, rudd and gillard and from last year it was raised to 20000. i'm sick of people putting s*** on australia for accepting per capita more than anyone else. wheres all the s*** directed at new zealand, singapore, japan, korea, all of europe, america, canada ? they aren't doing as much to resettle as australia is yet everyone uses them as the prime examples of how good they all are and how racist australia is.

We are below the world average per capita.
And are below countries you listed.

Also population density is an issue for several of the countries you listed.

But don't facts interrupt you.
09:05pm 26/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4390 posts
Mentioning population density is a bit ridiculous mate when you consider how big australia is and the fact that almost all immigrants will settle in our few capital cities.
09:55pm 26/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1919 posts
We are below the world average per capita. And are below countries you listed. Also population density is an issue for several of the countries you listed. But don't facts interrupt you.


prove it.

how many have been permanently resettled in the industrialised countries. not given temporary hosting, but permanent resettlement... you know that actual goal of asylum seekers.

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/r/isub/2012-13-IntakeSub-stat.pdf

this is a good place to start
07:01am 27/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1920 posts
http://michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/.a/6a0177444b0c2e970d01901e72e34a970b-800wi

ever please welcome our latest oppressed asylum seeker.
07:04am 27/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14010 posts
^^ That guy probably spent $20,000 for a leaky boat ride to a detention center only to eventually not be granted asylum.

What exactly is your point Cainer?
07:38am 27/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4394 posts
Jesus did he eat a couple of life jackets on the trip over? Ill be he'd be popular if the boat sank.
08:48am 27/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6436 posts
Its all good, we need more bouncers on the Gold Coast anyway.
08:57am 27/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
1 posts
Rudd has changed me from a long time Abbott supporter to a Labour voter
11:42am 27/07/13 Permalink
shad
Brisbane, Queensland
4018 posts
Abbott has turned me from a long time Liberal supporter into an anything but Liberal supporter.
11:44am 27/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
317 posts
Rudd has changed me from a long time Abbott supporter to a Labour voter


^^^^ Probably a new Fpot account
12:32pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23080 posts
prove it.
http://www.asrc.org.au/media/documents/australia-vs-rest-world-refugees-asylum-seekers___.pdf

Could you just f*** off back to reddit forever now please?
01:25pm 27/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10098 posts
Cainer I have previously posted evidence, to support the statement. Scroll back through the pages.

Population density is massively relevant. Even our most densely populated cities pail in comparison to Singapore.


Maybe you should compare us to vatican city too ?
01:31pm 27/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1921 posts
no i make valid comparisons to industrialised countries. why would you compare an island continent surrounded by ocean to nations bordering countries at war. per capita australia has accepted the most refugees for permanent resettlement in the industrialised world in the previous decade

http://i.imgur.com/v3jIcjB.jpg

you can manipulate statistics to tell your point of view which tends to work very effectively to people with clay in their heads, like fpot, the truth however tends to make the blinkers go up regardless of the cold hard facts telling them otherwise. maybe if i put it in a big pastel font infographic with easy to read graphs and pictures it might make it through the clay, but i doubt it.
03:06pm 27/07/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1922 posts
edit is broken
03:10pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23082 posts
Dude what? On that list you posted we are eighth.

This is a massive red herring anyway. I wish we were first by capita. I want Australia to take in as many refugees as possible. If the government implemented a refugee levy where everyone paid $100 (or whatever) a year to fund taking in extras and not having to lock them up in hellholes for 224 days I'd be all for it. We are an underpopulated country with heaps of jobs and resources to go around. I am not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

My problem is with the whole xenophobic attitude towards refugees. You know how you call London durkadurkastan and are generally just a pathetic little racist c***? It's a trait shared by many people and that is reflected by the fact our two major parties now have a policy targeted towards bigots - the Stop The Boats policy. I wasn't born yesterday in the stupid house so this false concern for their safety at sea angle I see as ridiculous. If the people saying that were really concerned about their safety then they'd want them to make it to our shores.

You talk about sheeple but the ironic thing is you are the one who has fallen for a lie. All this stuff about them not having it so bad and just wanting to come here for our welfare is A Current Affair and Bolt Report level nonsense. It's a whole bunch of tripe that you and seemingly a large percentage of the population has fallen for. I mean, you were even swayed by a few photographs of some refugees who look kind of buff. I mean, how f*****g gullible can you get?

__

Millions of refugees swamping our shores and ruining our economy - despite this being a logistical impossibility - a pressing concern that has to be addressed immediately! Stop the boats!

Climate change, an event that is occurring with concrete evidence supporting it backed by every reputable scientific body in the world which is going to f*** some serious s*** up in the future - a left-wing conspiracy! It's not really happening

Yours Sincerely

An Australian Liberal Voter.
03:32pm 27/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20219 posts
All this stuff about them not having it so bad and just wanting to come here for our welfare is A Current Affair and Bolt Report level nonsense.


If they are genuinely fearing for their lives, why are they traveling half way across the world? Why are they not in a refugee camp on the other side of the border of the country they are fleeing from? That doesn't sound like a sense of urgency to escape immediate danger, it sounds like a well thought out plan.

Why do they not stop in Indonesia? Why do they engage in criminal acts (seeking asylum is not criminal but paying off cops, aiding and abetting organised crime syndicates in Indonesia is).

I know that immigration won't harm the economy, our country was built on immigration - orderly immigration.

Fpot wants to open the doors and every random who thinks Australia sounds sort of alright can just rock on up. That is lunacy. Fpot actually wants more refugees here seeking the big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (welfare, housing, free medical). And he is fine for higher taxation to achieve that end. So he in fact wants to make the market for people smuggling bigger. Fpot how much extra taxation would you be prepared to personally bear? How much do you think the total budget for managing asylum seekers should be: $5b? $10b? $20b? What do you think is reasonable? And how many refugees per year do you think should be Australia's absolute upper limit? Where would you personally draw the line if currently we are inadequate.

I am very keen to hear your answers to these key questions.
05:28pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23085 posts
I am very keen to hear your answers to these key questions.
Really? because they've been answered before, in previous threads, usually about the time you stop posting in them. Then another thread pops up and you ask the same stupid questions. Hence that thing I quoted to you before. But for the sake of discussion and anyone else who might want to read it, here I go again.

It's because they do resettle in neighbouring countries. Read something that isn't a Bolt blog and you might actually learn something. In fact in the link I just quoted to cainer said -

Of the 10.5 million refugees under UNHCR's mandate as of 2012, the largest numbers were being
hosted by Pakistan (1,638,500), Iran (868,200), Germany (589,700), Kenya (564,900), Syria (476,500)
and Ethiopia (376,400).
Developing countries hosted over 80% of the world’s refugees, compared to 70% ten years ago

...

Pakistan hosted the highest number of refugees - mainly from Afghanistan - compared to its national
economy. It hosted 552 refugees per 1 USD of GDP.

source
So the vast majority do seek asylum in neighbouring countries. Some however have more stuff to sell, or maybe they're more desperate, or maybe god forbid after living in terrible conditions they do aspire to live in a first world country where instead of facing the malignant persecution they face there, they can just face the more benign passive-aggressive angry on the internet persecution from dolts like yourself.

The reason they don't stay in Indonesia is because they are not part of the UNRC. They are afforded no protection there. How do you not know this?

Fpot wants to open the doors and every random who thinks Australia sounds sort of alright can just rock on up. That is lunacy. Fpot actually wants more refugees here seeking the big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (welfare, housing, free medical). And he is fine for higher taxation to achieve that end. So he in fact wants to make the market for people smuggling bigger. Fpot how much extra taxation would you be prepared to personally bear? How much do you think the total budget for managing asylum seekers should be: $5b? $10b? $20b? What do you think is reasonable? And how many refugees per year do you think should be Australia's absolute upper limit? Where would you personally draw the line if currently we are inadequate.
There is no way to reasonably answer this because it is just a giant pile of uninformed garbage full of assumptions and things that simply aren't true. I don't want to open the doors to every random who sounds alright - I want people from war torn countries to have every opportunity to settle here. I want more refugees here because there are currently only a small amount arriving and I believe that as a country we can help a whole lot more.

People smuggling is bad, but the emotions you are trying to invoke when you use the word are the negative ones associated with smuggling people into slave trades, or prostitution. The people smugglers behind this are no angels, and they are only in it for the money and probably care nothing for the people they put to sea. However the people going on the journey aren't stupid, they know that a long trip on a dodgy boat is dangerous. They are taking the trip willingly and with full knowledge of the dangers.

As for the rest, slippery-slope argument. Gotta have the token logical fallacy in every infi post, don't we?
06:27pm 27/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20220 posts
So you have no upper limit to our generosity? The budget for refugee detention and support under your policy would be unlimited, and the allowable refugee numbers would be unlimited.
06:32pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23087 posts
It's boggling that even after being told your argument is a logical fallacy and really f*****g stupid, you would then go and attempt it again.

I'd say my limit would be when so many refugees start arriving that it is significantly detrimental to the people living here. For the amount of people required to make that start happening, you may as well ask 'but fpot, what if refugees from Mars start arriving and they have a super-strain of Mars flu and they begin infecting us with it? Both are equally possible.

Does that answer your stupid question?
06:38pm 27/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20222 posts
The cost of government programs bear no importance to fpot. It really stuns me how thoughtless fpot is about the cost to supply these services. It's like it all happens magically without diverting resources from other equally worthy objectives. Magic cost-free pain-free instant solutions - another product of Kevin Rudd's careless spending addiction.

You make my questions about the scope and size of the refugee program seem irrelevant. In the real world, everything costs money and needs to be limited to stop costs getting out of control. I assume you don't do much budgeting in real life...
06:44pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23089 posts
This is getting more relevant every time I post it.

I used to like political threads on QGL till I realised it is pretty much just the same people posting until they reach a critical mass point of wrongness, people desperately trying to show them reason, and then instead of learning from it they'll just froth away on some new tangent. Then when they have reached the critical mass point of wrongness on every single topic that the thread could possibly cover the thread dies, only for a new politics thread to crop up at a later date and for them to be wrong all over again about the exact same topics covered in the previous thread and for the process to literally repeat itself. I mean, when you have to change your name repeatedly and re-reg accounts to try and give yourself a fresh start on an internet forum you've got to be doing a lot of things wrong.

So now I just read and chuckle at the drivel posted by the usual suspects. It's better than wasting your time trying to respond to it.
If only I could remember to take my own advice.
06:56pm 27/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36114 posts
infi heard that some of the refugees that come to australia dont even have the decency to speak englis********
07:10pm 27/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14013 posts

gic cost-free pain-free instant solutions - another product of Kevin Rudd's careless spending addiction.


Lol, because using military ships is going to be so cheap
08:23pm 27/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1030 posts
What are people's thought's on aboloshing negative gearing?

Apparently it costs around 5 billion a year to the budget and directly negatively affects pretty much anyone in the first home buyers market.

CBA says it's ok to have high household debt though so let's just keep it going.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/156084370/CBA-Household-Debt-Trends-25-July-2013

Why are people not more outraged about this than some people trying to make a better life for themselves?

How about super tax concessions to the richest 10% of Australians? How much does that cost?
09:46pm 27/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14014 posts
I'm paying off my home at the moment. Surely if the government dropped negative gearing heaps and heaps of people with an investment property will dump them onto the market. The idea being that the tax breaks once given now don't make it worth while.
A bunch of houses dumped onto the market, that wont help house prices for owners at all, it would be pretty crap imo. So yeah, on that guess I'd hate to see it go. As for people outside of the house market, it would probably be a good thing to have it dumped. Good luck getting voted in if that is one of your policies though haha
10:23pm 27/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
320 posts
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/rudd-vs-bolt-the-interview/story-fnho52ip-1226686860312

It's fantastic watching a journalist not allow a politician to weasel out and around questions. You wouldn't get this kind of interviews on politically bogan shows such as 7pm project.

inb4 the usual "omg andrew bolt" "its a ring wing show, so biased!"
10:25pm 27/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23091 posts
newsdotcomau post, check

Andrew Bolt, check

One of QGL's elite morons posting it, check.

You're right though, us loony left posters should probably stop posting our worthless opinions of Glenn Bec... I mean Andrew Bolt. How about posting about how he is a convicted racist instead?

But that was just a loony left court stifling his right to freedom of speech, wasn't it?
10:41pm 27/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
321 posts
newsdotcomau post, checkAndrew Bolt, checkOne of QGL's elite morons posting it, check.You're right though, us loony left posters should probably stop posting our worthless opinions of Glenn Bec... I mean Andrew Bolt. How about posting about how he is a convicted racist instead?But that was just a loony left court stifling his right to freedom of speech, wasn't it?



Standard complaint about newsdotcomau, check

Complain about Andrew Bolt, check

Unnecessary childish insult, check

Standard attempt to divert away from the topic of the post(Andrew Bolts interview of Kevin Rudd who refused to answer any question), check
12:29am 28/07/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10089 posts
I don't know about you blokes...

but I'm currently being paid to fix up dodgy NBN installations....

and that's what I'm contracted to do over the next 12 months or so....


what can I say...


I'm "old"


do you best lads
01:35am 28/07/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10090 posts
meh.. wrong thread...


it doesn't matter...


you kids have no recourse unless you've friends in higher places.


you're idiots - who are some time gifted with knowledge, though you don't know what to do with it unless you are told to.


occasionally - an arts student pops up and show all of you up ;)
01:52am 28/07/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10091 posts
yaaaaaaaaaay - vote Labor
01:54am 28/07/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10094 posts
that was a joke btw
03:09am 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23092 posts
Either he didn't answer because he is spineless, or because Bolt was asking typically stupid and obtuse questions so uhhhhh, yeah. Great post Mr Political Enthusiast.
08:20am 28/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10510 posts
Bolt Vs Rudd on TEN right now !
09:56am 28/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10511 posts
That was a dull interview.
10:25am 28/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20223 posts
Just keep dreaming up those grand ideas that there is no way to pay for. Kevin is big on announcements and poor on follow through. He will probably announce next a quadrupling of our humanitarian intake to satisfy the foots too. None of it will come to fruition. It's the same old Kevin.

I am glad Hockey is not using the PEFO figures for his coatings. Treasury modeling has been woefully inaccurate the past 5 years. Hockey will have clearer numbers talking to some barflies at his local.
12:20pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
2 posts
^^^^ Probably a new Fpot account

What is fpot?
12:43pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23094 posts
It's just me, Possum man has gone through at least two accounts and I think three maybe four name changes so far. He does this because he gets such a bad rep with his posts he needs to give himself a fresh start so people might listen to him because probably after about a couple of months of posting people just automagically skip over his posts. I give him s*** about it all the time and claiming you were my account was just his attempt at reversing some of that s*** back onto me. It's no biggie.
12:46pm 28/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1031 posts
Hockey will have clearer numbers talking to some barflies at his local.


Yeah the Middle Harbour yacht club.

It was a good move to crack down on fringe benefit for cars. Hopefully they remove some more middle class welfare.
12:52pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
5223 posts
I'm not sure what the fringe benefit changes for cars actually entails. All I know is I got an email saying I'm all good because I got my novated lease prior to the cut off date.
12:56pm 28/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
195 posts
People smuggling is bad

I've never heard a compelling argument as to why people smuggling is bad. Although there can be links to organised crime, that doesn't really address why paying someone to smuggle you into a country in order to flee an impending threat is immoral or wrong.

Jews were smuggled out of Nazi occupied territory quite frequently, they often had to pay to do so. The people who smuggled them out were heroes.
02:35pm 28/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
322 posts
That was a dull interview.


What do you expect from someone who refuses to answer questions?

It's just me, Possum man has gone through at least two accounts and I think three maybe four name changes so far. He does this because he gets such a bad rep with his posts he needs to give himself a fresh start so people might listen to him because probably after about a couple of months of posting people just automagically skip over his posts. I give him s*** about it all the time and claiming you were my account was just his attempt at reversing some of that s*** back onto me. It's no biggie.


Do you know the real reason i change my name often? Because it infuriates you and makes you fly off the handle. It's like poking a cat with a broom handle. It makes for hilarious viewing, you get sucked in every....single.....time.

I guess attacking the person makes up for your crap arguing/debating skills.
02:42pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
5224 posts
I've never heard a compelling argument as to why people smuggling is bad.


I suppose you've never heard of the examples where people pay to be smuggled out of a country (or alternatively they're really paying to get smuggled into a better country) then on the other end the fee "doubles" and they end up working as effectively a slave / prostitute etc etc to pay off their smuggling debts?
02:45pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23097 posts
I've never heard a compelling argument as to why people smuggling is bad.
And you won't hear one here because people are just going to say Godwin and then leave it at that thinking it's a slam dunk.

Yeah sure that's the reason possumsheerbonertron, sure it is.
02:46pm 28/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
196 posts
02:49pm 28/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
197 posts
I suppose you've never heard of the examples where people pay to be smuggled out of a country (or alternatively they're really paying to get smuggled into a better country) then on the other end the fee "doubles" and they end up working as effectively a slave / prostitute etc etc to pay off their smuggling debts?

That's human trafficking, which is a problem but technically a separate issue.
02:50pm 28/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10512 posts
kevin Rudd gets cruel with Refugees and he rises further in the Polls.

I take it the QGL Refugee Support Group wont be voting Labor ?
03:34pm 28/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18502 posts
I take it the QGL Refugee Support Group wont be voting Labor


lols
03:36pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23099 posts
How do I find out which parties are running in my electorate?

edit: found it
03:41pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
3 posts
Every time a cue jumper (Cause lets face facts, that's what boat people are) gets rewarded, someone who went the legal way gets pushed back. The sad thing is the one who goes the legal route are more deserving. The majority of asylum seekers who pay a few years wages for a spot on a boat ( Where do they get the money?) do not come from places where they are being persecuted. They just come from countries that are a lil s***** to live in.
Give me someone who respects our laws instead of people who think they can just ignore the laws of the land and arrive on our shores with their hands out waiting for the $50,000+ plus a year in welfare payments.
04:34pm 28/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18503 posts
google your electorate, the AEC info for it should come up in one of the first links
04:42pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23101 posts
Every time a cue jumper (Cause lets face facts, that's what boat people are) gets rewarded, someone who went the legal way gets pushed back. The sad thing is the one who goes the legal route are more deserving. The majority of asylum seekers who pay a few years wages for a spot on a boat ( Where do they get the money?) do not come from places where they are being persecuted. They just come from countries that are a lil s***** to live in.
Give me someone who respects our laws instead of people who think they can just ignore the laws of the land and arrive on our shores with their hands out waiting for the $50,000+ plus a year in welfare payments.
If you'd read the thread, and followed some of the links posted by people, you'd know that you are wrong on literally every single point you just made then.

You'll fit right in here bro, happy posting.

edit: or spent two minutes googling asylum seekers if reading threads isn't your style and just taking massive dumps in them is (again, you'll fit in well).
04:50pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36123 posts
pretty obvious that mo is an infi alt
04:54pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
6 posts
If you'd read the thread, and followed some of the links posted by people, you'd know that you are wrong on literally every single point you just made then.You'll fit right in here bro, happy posting.

Sort of gave up on your links when you said bolt was a convicted racist.
I suppose telling the truth is racist in this day n age.
But that is off topic. Nothing i said was inaccurate, And just saying it is doesn't make it so.
04:58pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
7 posts
pretty obvious that mo is an infi alt

What is an infi alt?
05:01pm 28/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
323 posts
I take it the QGL Refugee Support Group wont be voting Labor ?


Of course not. They will be voting for the Greens which is even more dumb and hilarious.
05:04pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
3027 posts
Every time a cue jumper... gets rewarded, someone who went the legal way gets pushed back


Same rule applies in snooker.
05:06pm 28/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1718 posts
kevin Rudd gets cruel with Refugees and he rises further in the Polls.

I take it the QGL Refugee Support Group wont be voting Labor ?


Its not like Liberal are stepping up to give anyone a serious alternative. Pretty hilarious how the ALP adopts a similar stance to the LNP and now they're monsters. Pot, kettle, pfffft.
05:10pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23102 posts
Nothing i said was inaccurate, And just saying it is doesn't make it so.
Actually, it was all inaccurate. It isn't just because I said it is, it's because it is. People have gone to the trouble of posting evidence in this thread to back up their assertions, and the evidence posted proves you wrong. Sorry mate.

But as you said, you don't like to follow links or read things, you just like to take massive vindictive dumps of wrongness without a single thing to back it up and that's cool. That's pretty much what goes on from some of the most frequent posters in this thread. Big frothy dumps, and then when proven wrong, hands clasped over the ears. So uhh, welcome to the QGL reject bin I guess?
05:13pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
9 posts
Actually, it was all inaccurate. It isn't just because I said it is, it's because it is. People have gone to the trouble of posting evidence in this thread to back up their assertions, and the evidence posted proves you wrong. Sorry mate.But as you said, you don't like to follow links or read things, you just like to take massive vindictive dumps of wrongness without a single thing to back it up and that's cool. That's pretty much what goes on from some of the most frequent posters in this thread. Big frothy dumps, and then when proven wrong, hands clasped over the ears. So uhh, welcome to the QGL reject bin I guess?

I have not seen any evidence in this thread that would prove my facts wrong.
I live near a lot and personally know a few Boat people. And i know what they get.
I'll take the facts first hand instead of from websites from agenda driven refugee orgs

Edit what is QGL?
05:20pm 28/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10513 posts
did fpot see those pics of refugees on Christmas island ?
Designer shirts, overweight, body builders ...
They aren't refugees they are taking shortcuts to get to Australia.

you know how you line up for a cab on a sat night ?
and some dude jumps in the cab before it gets to the cab bay ?
That's what they are doing.

05:27pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23103 posts
Hey guys I like totally know some boat people and they have discussed their welfare payments personally with me so I don't need to post links or read anything, I have the first-hand knowledge required to skip that pesky step of providing evidence for my extraordinary claims.

Sure thing mate.
05:29pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14211 posts
kevin Rudd gets cruel with Refugees and he rises further in the Polls.

I take it the QGL Refugee Support Group wont be voting Labor ?

I've made it clear that refugees are not an issue for me in the election, aside from being generally disgusted at Australians as we fixate on it.

Its an overblown non-problem that was invented by the Howard Government with the children overboard affair to create a point of difference with the ALP, and posture sternly at our borders as East Timor's beneficial effect on polling waned and to add to general community uncertainty in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

The ALP and Coalition have terrible policies that play upon the worst qualities and vulnerabilities of Australians. Neither party's policy appeals to me on this issue on I'm sure as f*** not voting Green, so I'll look to other (actual) issues to make my call.

I don't expect that this thread will recover from endless arguments about refugees, we'll probably need a new one for the actual election issues.
05:34pm 28/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3092 posts
Google will probably scrobble the aggregate stats in hoomin readable form again (iirc it was channel 9 and ray martin's live aggregate polling telecast thing)
05:38pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1430 posts
It hurts my head reading this thread.
05:48pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
New South Wales
10 posts
Hey guys I like totally know some boat people and they have discussed their welfare payments personally with me so I don't need to post links or read anything, I have the first-hand knowledge required to skip that pesky step of providing evidence for my extraordinary claims.Sure thing mate.

As if you have provided evidence.
I do know quite a few boat people. What the matter you jelly?
" O noes boat people are so special only people with fedoras and neck beards are allowed to interact with them."
I can tell you how they get a drivers licence even though they have never driven a car before. How?
By telling them had a licence in their old country but was lost when they "fled" I could tell you a lot of things.
Like how they get help from the government to under cut people on contracts/jobs
05:49pm 28/07/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
198 posts
did fpot see those pics of refugees on Christmas island ?
Designer shirts, overweight, body builders ...
They aren't refugees they are taking shortcuts to get to Australia.


They take care of themselves, they had likely had (note past tense) money. How exactly does this stop them from being legitimate refugees? What if they were being persecuted in their home country for political reasons? What if they were being persecuted because they are gay?
06:08pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
5225 posts
That's human trafficking, which is a problem but technically a separate issue.


That is nonsense. The people doing it may be people smugglers but the people being duped are still asylum seeking. Stamp that out and those people don't end up in that predicament.
06:37pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
13 posts
They take care of themselves, they had likely had (note past tense) money. How exactly does this stop them from being legitimate refugees? What if they were being persecuted in their home country for political reasons? What if they were being persecuted because they are gay?

If they can take care of themselves why are seeking asylum? And why isn't png good enough? After all its the freedom and safety that matters not the location. If you're stranded in the desert you're not going to refuse the offer of tap water in the hope someone might come along with some perrier. If you do you're not that thirsty to begin with. If you know what i'm saying.
08:35pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23106 posts
And why isn't png good enough?
Because it is a dangerous corrupt country with a non-functional government and incompetent police force. The Australian government has issued an exercise a high degree of caution warning to Australians who wish to travel there. If rich westerners aren't safe, how do you think vulnerable people will fare?

It is also ranked 156th on the Human Development Index. There are details on the wiki page about what the HDI is, but I know you're not really into the whole reading thing, so I'll just say it basically ranks countries on general living conditions and safety. 156th is an incredibly low number.

In case statistics and government issued warnings aren't really your thing, here are a couple of news articles for you to read which give a general overview of the current status quo in PNG. Just in case you actually do read them, I will concede that women and children aren't being sent there (yet) but men aren't immune to violence and sexual violence and will also be at risk.

__

Now see what happened there? See how you said a thing and instead of replying with a bunch of garbled fragmented nonsense written
in funny formatting
like these
sentence here
I actually took the time to produce some links that makes your 'why isn't PNG good enough?' assertion seem rather silly? That's how things are discussed. Now you're apparently new here (heh) so you've still got a chance to rise above the infis, cainers and sheerpossumbonertrons and be someone who can actually string a few coherent sentences together and have some links to back it up as well. Good luck partner.

And it's entirely possible for people to be physically healthy and still require asylum. Take Fawad Ahmed for example, a talented cricketer who might be in the Australian test side soon. He was persecuted for teaching girls how to play cricket. The local government made threats against his life if he didn't stop and was forced to flee the country. Anecdotal I know, but an anecdotal story is better than just assuming some healthy looking people are faking it based on nothing at all but your own prejudice.
08:58pm 28/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
324 posts
Usually Fpot would be screaming "OMGGGGGG DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR" by now, yet he is instead debating the guy(who has only just signed up to the forums and could probably be this "Door" character fpot raves about all the time)

Fpot is confusing sometimes :S

did fpot see those pics of refugees on Christmas island ?
Designer shirts, overweight, body builders ...
They aren't refugees they are taking shortcuts to get to Australia.

you know how you line up for a cab on a sat night ?
and some dude jumps in the cab before it gets to the cab bay ?
That's what they are doing.


Apparently they are "poor desperate people" but as you pointed out, they come wearing nice clothes, with designer sunglasses, complete with luggage like they are tourists. Not to mention some of them look that jacked up that they would be spending thousands of dollars on steroids and gym equipment.

We all have seen the reports about the faulty asylum seeker process where hundreds if not thousands of bogus asylum seekers have been let through. It's not like individual stories could be checked out anyway. Is the department of immigration going to send a rep to a small village in afghanistan to check 1 story out? No. The system is set up on a real until proven fake basis instead of a not real until proven real basis.
09:08pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10100 posts
lol ... I went to Bali once and bought "designer" sunglasses for $5 and a Rolex for $15!

To be honest I am not game to trust the water proof qualities of this Rolex.

09:15pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23107 posts
Nah Obes I am pretty sure they paid top dollar for their gear in one of the many posh department stores that litter the Afghanistan country-side. Harrod's have a store in Afghanistan, right?
09:17pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
15 posts
Because it is a dangerous corrupt country with a non-functional government and incompetent police force. The Australian government has issued an exercise a high degree of caution warning to Australians who wish to travel there. If rich westerners aren't safe, how do you think vulnerable people will fare?It is also ranked 156th on the Human Development Index. There are details on the wiki page about what the HDI is, but I know you're not really into the whole reading thing, so I'll just say it basically ranks countries on general living conditions and safety. 156th is an incredibly low number. In case statistics and government issued warnings aren't really your thing, here are a couple of news articles for you to read which give a general overview of the current status quo in PNG. Just in case you actually do read them, I will concede that women and children aren't being sent there (yet) but men aren't immune to violence and sexual violence and will also be at risk.__Now see what happened there? See how you said a thing and instead of replying with a bunch of garbled fragmented nonsense written in funny formattinglike thesesentence hereI actually took the time to produce some links that makes your 'why isn't PNG good enough?' assertion seem rather silly? That's how things are discussed. Now you're apparently new here (heh) so you've still got a chance to rise above the infis, cainers and sheerpossumbonertrons and be someone who can actually string a few coherent sentences together and have some links to back it up as well. Good luck partner.And it's entirely possible for people to be physically healthy and still require asylum. Take Fawad Ahmed for example, a talented cricketer who might be in the Australian test side soon. He was persecuted for teaching girls how to play cricket. The local government made threats against his life if he didn't stop and was forced to flee the country. Anecdotal I know, but an anecdotal story is better than just assuming some healthy looking people are faking it based on nothing at all but your own prejudice.

If Png is so bad why don't we see boat loads of them coming to Australia? The trouble the cue jumpers have with going to PNG isn't the so called danger. It is because PNG wont be giving them $50,000+ a yr in welfare payments.
And if you don't like the way i write then that's fine. will it stop me from posting? No. Does it make what i exposed to be false? No.
. I am not going to change the way i write for you or any body else. And you know what they say about grammr/formtt nazis...
10:33pm 28/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3094 posts
I had a great knock off Brietling smuggled back in luggage from Bali/somewhere in Asiapac

It's good, but slightly oversized. anyway meh still love it.
10:36pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14212 posts
No.. I am not going to change the way i write for you or any body else. And you know what they say about grammr/formtt nazis...

Makes it pretty easy to ignore your opinion though when you write like you're in year four.

And for f***'s sake, its queue. Cue is what you hit someone over the head with as the highlight of a Saturday night on the VBs.
10:57pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23108 posts
If Png is so bad why don't we see boat loads of them coming to Australia? The trouble the cue jumpers have with going to PNG isn't the so called danger. It is because PNG wont be giving them $50,000+ a yr in welfare payments.
And if you don't like the way i write then that's fine. will it stop me from posting? No. Does it make what i exposed to be false? No.
. I am not going to change the way i write for you or any body else. And you know what they say about grammr/formtt nazis...
Who knows? I'd certainly be happy for them to seek asylum here if they felt their safety was in danger. Are you suggesting that things there aren't so bad despite the travel warnings and HDI? That's sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. You don't want that, because people who engage in that sort of thinking leave themselves open to accusations of willful ignorance - you know - clasping their hands over their ears and just continuing to believe a falsehood because it supports their incorrect position. Not good for the soul, brother.

And $50,000 per annum welfare payments you say? My that is a large number! Did you learn that from your first-hand chin-wags with your boat people friends? Seems a bit high to me, so let's check the Australian Parliament House website on exactly what benefits asylum seekers and refugees are entitled to.

The following material has been reproduced from L Buckmaster, Australian Government assistance to refugees: fact v fiction, Background note, Parliamentary Library, Canberra, 2012.

Refugees

In recent years, a series of emails have been widely circulated throughout Australia claiming to describe higher social security entitlements for refugees, compared with those of other Australian residents. A common claim in these emails is that refugees in Australia receive higher social security benefits than age pensioners.

There is no truth to claims that refugees are entitled to higher benefits than other social security recipients. Refugees have the same entitlements as all other permanent residents—they do not receive special refugee payments or special rates of payment.

Given the circumstances in which refugees come to settle in Australia, they are exempt from the standard waiting period that applies to migrants seeking to access social security payments or concession cards. They also receive short-term assistance from DIAC aimed at helping them settle effectively.

Asylum seekers

DIAC also provides funding to assist asylum seekers living in the community (on bridging visas) or in community detention through Non-Government Organisations (NGOs) such as the Australian Red Cross.

For eligible asylum seekers in the community on bridging visas, financial assistance may be available under the Asylum Seeker Assistance (ASA) Scheme. The ASA Scheme is administered by the Australian Red Cross under contract to DIAC. Assistance is paid at the rate of 89 per cent of the DHS Special Benefit—a payment made to those in severe financial need due to circumstances outside their control and who are not eligible to receive any other DHS pension or benefit. Asylum seekers on bridging visas may also be eligible for rent assistance in the form of 89 per cent of DHS Rent Assistance. The Community Assistance Support (CAS) program provides similar support to people on bridging visas as the ASA Scheme, but is designed for people with particular needs and vulnerabilities.

DIAC also provides funding to NGOs (primarily the Australian Red Cross) aimed at ensuring that people placed in community detention are appropriately supported while their asylum claims are processed. NGOs are funded to source appropriate housing, to provide payment of living expenses, and to ensure access to relevant health and community services and social support networks. Previously, as with the ASA Scheme, income support through the Community Detention Program was provided by the Australian Red Cross at the level of 89 per cent of DHS Special Benefit. However, this has since been reduced to 70 per cent of Special Benefit ($344.82) to reflect the fact that people in community detention have their rent paid for them.

Under an income allowance program, asylum seekers in closed immigration detention centres are allocated points that can be exchanged for small items at the facility shop (similar to a small allowance), but do not receive DHS equivalent payments.[56
I quoted it all for you to save you the effort of clicking. I also bolded the important parts to help you out a bit Now note it says they are paid 89% of the DHS special benefit payment. I just used the Centrelink Rate Estimator to estimate the DHS payment for a family consisting of a man, woman, and three children. I tried to gear it to produce the maximum amount. Here is the result -

http://i.imgur.com/SiNVUIG.jpg

Now I am going to do you a another favour here and use both the people's combined income when I really only should use one person. Their total weekly payment is $456.30. That equals $23727.60 per annum. Now for other people reading, it really should be $11863.80 per annum, but Mo here seems like the sensitive type so I thought I might fudge the numbers a bit to make things easier on him. Oh I forgot, they only receive 89% of that payout, so the numbers are actually $21117.74/10558.87 per annum. There are other benefits like rent assistance that they also receive, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they aren't going to equal $29000 so I'll leave them out. By all means, check out that centrelink estimator website if you want to find out what they are.

But of course, you have first hand knowledge of what their payments actually are, which surely trumps the figures I just sourced from the actual people that issue the payments. Reread the bit I wrote about cognitive dissonance. And type things out how you want to bro. I am a pretty bad speller myself but my browser has a spell checker. The only thing is though, judging by the fact that you've signed up to a forum and jumped straight into the political thread, I am guessing you are pretty keen to have your voice heard. It was only a suggestion because when you type like that you sound a little unstable and people reading it might mistake you for some silly frothing right-winger who is only that way because of his mummy and daddy, and now he is out in the big bad world of internet forums, is unable to get his point across in a calm and rational manner. And you're obviously not one of those people, are you?
11:09pm 28/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23109 posts
Oh, and of course they only receive that payout until they find work that brings in sufficient money to render it unneeded. Now despite what Bolt and A Current Affair have told you, that would be the first goal because raising a family of three kids on $21117 per annum is tough, if not impossible.
11:25pm 28/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36124 posts
Cue is what you hit someone over the head with as the highlight of a Saturday night on the VBs.


<3
06:37am 29/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10101 posts
But fpot they has sun glasses!
08:28am 29/07/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4305 posts
Makes it pretty easy to ignore your opinion though when you write like you're in year four.


This. I'm thinking the mates he's referring to are Larry and Curly.

Roll on Mo it's very entertaining.
08:58am 29/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20224 posts
The QGL Refugee Support Network haven't said how large the refugee budget should grow and how it should be paid for.
08:59am 29/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1033 posts
If Png is so bad why don't we see boat loads of them coming to Australia? The trouble the cue jumpers have with going to PNG isn't the so called danger. It is because PNG wont be giving them $50,000+ a yr in welfare payments.


Pretty much most of my mum's extended family have migrated from port morsbey, it's not a nice place anymore.

Are refugees and boarder protection the only issue going into this election?

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/07/australia-must-jettison-the-howardcostello-legacy/

Labor are putting in a new Sydney airport if elected. What have the Liberals promised to build?
09:29am 29/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4404 posts
The QGL Refugee Support Network haven't said how large the refugee budget should grow and how it should be paid for.


In all seriousness infi does it really matter? The only reason you'd ask that question is because you would expect the figure to be large enough to piss people off and have them jumping up and down. The reality is no matter what the figure is there are always going to be some people that are pissed off about it.
09:41am 29/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10102 posts
how it should be paid for

Well we can start by not giving the state and local pollies huge pay rises.
Maybe even get rid of one of those 2 tiers completely!
10:16am 29/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1195 posts
Labor are putting in a new Sydney airport if elected. What have the Liberals promised to build?


They announced additional funding for Pacific Highway works.

I don't get how they expect us to take funding announcements seriously when they won't use the treasury PEFO figures. Regardless of if you 'trust' them or not, the public deserve one true baseline that all election promises from all parties are going to be based around, otherwise what is the point.
10:30am 29/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10103 posts
What have the Liberals promised to build?

A Toowoomba by-pass

And the election hasn't even been called yet.
10:42am 29/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36125 posts
The QGL Refugee Support Network haven't said how large the refugee budget should grow and how it should be paid for.


just borrow moar money and pay for it.

im fine with that, ill sign it off now.
11:29am 29/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
325 posts
The QGL Refugee Support Network haven't said how large the refugee budget should grow and how it should be paid for.


They have already made it very clear that they think it should grow as much as needed, infact during these tough budget times, they would be happy if the government borrowed to fund them.

In all seriousness infi does it really matter?


It does really matter. The QGL Refugee Support Network advocates open borders for anyone who rocks up and says "oh yeh im an asylum seeker" but at what point do we say no? 1 million asylum seekers? 2 million? $5 billion dollars? $10 billion dollars?

Pretty much most of my mum's extended family have migrated from port morsbey, it's not a nice place anymore.Are refugees and boarder protection the only issue going into this election?http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/07/australia-must-jettison-the-howardcostello-legacy/Labor are putting in a new Sydney airport if elected. What have the Liberals promised to build?


LOL! Just like all the other Labor infrastructure promises they have been promised and never delivered. I can't believe people still get sucked into their lies.

You would know what the Liberals have promised to build if you actually did some research(You won't because it's much easier to pretend the Liberals stand for nothing in your arguments)

Thank god the Liberals have committed money towards the vital east-west link in Melbourne. The 3 hour morning and night gridlock will finally be relieved. Labor refuse to fund it.
12:35pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
16 posts
Fpot. Nice. but you leave out the extra entitlements they receive. For instance. If a refugee couple go on the dole. (Which about 99% do.) They do not suffer any cut backs as an Australian couple would. Both receive a $50,000 settlement fee. Private schools are given "subsidies" for enrolling their children. Employers are given subsidies for employing them. ( if they do get a job. but why work when half your house is paid for by the government and you and your spouse receive a 100 grand a year in payments alone.?) You leave so much out of your links.
And why do you seem so threatened that a lowly ole bogan such as myself know refugees? How many do you worship err i mean personally know? How many come to your house for bbq's or take away fishing etc with you?
Hmm maybe you can't accept it because you know all refugees are settled in more affluent areas away from us bogans..
01:22pm 29/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23110 posts
If a refugee couple go on the dole. (Which about 99% do.)
citation needed.
They do not suffer any cut backs as an Australian couple would.
citation needed.
Both receive a $50,000 settlement fee.
citation needed.
Private schools are given "subsidies" for enrolling their children.
citation needed.
Employers are given subsidies for employing them.
citation needed.
( if they do get a job. but why work when half your house is paid for by the government and you and your spouse receive a 100 grand a year in payments alone.?)
citation needed.

I'm not threatened by you knowing refugees, I just think you're totally full of s*** and don't know a single one. You say you do so you can claim first hand knowledge of the situation. So far all of that first hand knowledge has turned out to be completely false.
01:38pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10104 posts
Nah Mo you are talking s***.
If a refugee couple go on the dole. (Which about 99% do.)

Source? And are they on the dole because they don't want to work or are you just assuming away ?

Both receive a $50,000 settlement fee.

Source? I do believe they get some basic white goods.

AFAIK (working at aa school) The only "subsidies" offered to refugee children to go to private school are funded by fund raising and sponsors.

There was a grant about 6/7 years ago, but I believe it was state school only and was used to fund counsellors etc etc because some of the kids were not only deeply troubled/disturbed by what happened to make them flee, but the long period of detainment in huge camps had "institutionalised" them. Oh and language teachers.

I think you will find that most of the migrant/refugee employment benefits are again funded by charities/organisations and not the public. Tho I do believe there is some grants.
In saying that we probably spent more money propping up Ford so that they could close anyway, then we have on getting refugees employed.

More importantly why do you not want them employed?

p.s. Refugees are important contributors to our society.
Frank Lowy, Les Murray, Richard Pratt are 3 I can name off the top of my head.

A positive story
02:03pm 29/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
326 posts
I love how fpot ONLY responds to Door a.k.a Mo now because it's easy for him to "win" the argument against him which probably props up poor Fpots self esteem. Poor Fpot can't "win" against anyone else, which is why he ignores posts from people like infi when hard questions about the scope and size of the refugee program are asked.

I feel sorry for Fpot :( tsk tsk
02:55pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14214 posts
What about the 'hard questions' about paying to process and relocate refugees offshore? Has an honest CBA been performed on this?

Refugees once assimilated pay back their host country with taxes, well once they're actually permitted to work!

Dumping them to PNG means we pay the expensive bit for their acute welfare requirements but they never become productive Australian citizens, its a gigantic money pit that only looks like a good deal if you're afraid of refugees.
03:02pm 29/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10518 posts
you haven't upset fpot enough until he makes a Thread about you.
03:16pm 29/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23114 posts
I love how fpot ONLY responds to Door a.k.a Mo now because it's easy for him to "win" the argument against him which probably props up poor Fpots self esteem. Poor Fpot can't "win" against anyone else, which is why he ignores posts from people like infi when hard questions about the scope and size of the refugee program are asked.
Dude, you're just really really pathetic. Your attempts to 'psyche me out' are just so incredibly dumb. The reason I don't respond to you or infi is because you deal solely in logical fallacies. Slippery slope arguments, strawmen, and red herrings make up literally 100% of your arguments. It is pointless to respond to them. The only reason I am bothering with Mo is that he is new and so he gets the benefit of the doubt. He might actually be interested in discussing things and exchanging ideas. The benefit of the doubt is slowly fading with every post he makes so don't worry, I'll be ignoring him like I do you and infi very soon.
03:33pm 29/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20225 posts
Fpot still has not outlined what Australia's annual intake limit should be, the limit to budget spending or the amount of extra new tax he supports for payments and services to refugees.
03:41pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
18 posts
I like the attempted rebuttals on here.
Mo: " they get $50,000"
Reply: " No they don't they get white goods."
Mo: "They get free education at private schools"
Reply: "No they don't.well they do but..."
All i see are contradictions. Plus an admittance they get more than what fpot posted. another reason why his links are void.
03:43pm 29/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23115 posts
There is literally not one poster on this forum who is of right-wing leanings able to form a convincing argument for their beliefs, and then back it up with something convincing. Why is that?
03:48pm 29/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20226 posts
And aside from your statement that money is no object, giving our hard earned salaries to foreigners is a noble object and we should pay more tax, you have not made yourself any clearer.

by that policy logic MORE refugees will come to Australia so I want to know just how many more is bearable and how ir should all be paid for. You seem very unconcerned by those minor details.

This is the problem with naive do gooders with no business experience. They are unable to comprehend basic concepts like paying bills and balancing budgets. Greens voters think it happens automagically and if they run short of taxes just slap a tax on some rich people. It is literally the way a six year old goes about solving problems. Even children soon come to learn that resources are not limitless, but not for Greens voters like fpot, they are unable to make that intellectual leap.
03:58pm 29/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23116 posts
yawn.

You asked that question earlier. I gave it the answer it deserved. You've gone and asked it three or four more times not because there was anything wrong with the answer, but because you've reached the aforementioned critical mass point of wrongness where your only recourse is to endlessly repeat the same stupid thing and make the person you're arguing with give up in either boredom or frustration. You've won, I've given up in boredom. Now you can say look fpot isn't responding, I've won, and the two or three people in your league of moron can agree with you and you can all feel pretty good about yourselves. Bravo.
04:03pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14025 posts


LOL! Just like all the other Labor infrastructure promises they have been promised and never delivered. I can't believe people still get sucked into their lies.


Both sides lie. Sadly it is a matter of who lies less. Honourable my ass.
04:12pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4409 posts
I love how fpot ONLY responds to Door a.k.a Mo now because it's easy for him to "win" the argument against him which probably props up poor Fpots self esteem. Poor Fpot can't "win" against anyone else, which is why he ignores posts from people like infi when hard questions about the scope and size of the refugee program are asked.I feel sorry for Fpot :( tsk tsk



seriously dude a post like this makes you come off worse than him, you sure as hell aren't doing yourself any favours.
04:32pm 29/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10105 posts
Mo: " they get $50,000"
Reply: " No they don't they get white goods."
Mo: "They get free education at private schools"
Reply: "No they don't.well they do but..."

You are doing a classical strawman there.

You said they get a publicly subsidised (beyond what others get) positions at private schools.
No they don't.
But sure private schools find ways to raise money to give some students spots, funded by the naive left wing do-gooders who can't balance budgets ... but can put thousands into charity ??? conundrum!

And aside from your statement that money is no object, giving our hard earned salaries to foreigners is a noble object and we should pay more tax, you have not made yourself any clearer.

But spending way more money on forcing your political views on a country and in doing so create a refugee problem ? sorry we were there for the WMDs ...

This is the problem with naive do gooders with no business experience. They are unable to comprehend basic concepts like paying bills and balancing budgets.

That there is what they call an "ad hominem".
The problem with people that think national governments are a small company is they get so wrapped up balancing annual budgets and not in governing a country into the future.



04:44pm 29/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
327 posts
Dude, you're just really really pathetic. Your attempts to 'psyche me out' are just so incredibly dumb.


I'm not trying to "psyche" you out. I simply want you to answer questions such as what infi has asked and asked again in this post http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/thread.php/3314565?p=2#post3333799

You ALWAYS dance around them with insults or diversions on to another topic or lines like " logical fallacies blah blah" It's a simple enough question.

How many more Asylum Seekers should we have before we draw the line and how do we pay for it? If you aren't a supporter of open borders and unlimited intake, you should be able to answer it.

It's such a simple question. Answer it, prove me wrong that you can actually answer something without dancing around it.

The only reason I am bothering with Mo is that he is new and so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

But he is so obviously Door. It's hilarious you get fooled by the real Door and then hysterically cry "DOOOR" when someone isn't Door. The guy signed up and came straight to this thread, usually you say "oh it must be Door, he is new and he posts a few white noise posts before coming in and attacking me) So either you are stupid and have been fooled by him or you know its him and you are replying because he is easy to defeat and it will prop up your self esteem.

Which is it? I'm going to say the second option.
05:26pm 29/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23118 posts
If Door wants to create account after account of schadenfreude fodder I think I'll just let him.

The amount of people seeking asylum in past year (not just boat people) is 17698. The average cost per year per asylum seeker is $119000. The yearly cost to the budget is 2.1b dollars. Australia's yearly tax revenue last year was $245 billion 223 million.

The rate at which asylum seekers can arrive is artificially limited by the logistics required to get them here. It would take the entire fishing fleet of Indonesia or a magical teleportation device to get that number up to a level where it will cause significant detrimental harm to our nation. That is why it is a stupid slippery slope argument and why I didn't bother answering it. So don't worry dude, you are making me feel pretty good about myself with your stupidity as well.

Now I've just wasted my time, because you are going to reply to this with more weak-sauce attempts to psyche me out and speculative froth. I was just doing it for the benefit of discussion.

I got some of the numbers I used from here as well btw.
05:47pm 29/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10519 posts
that's 2 billion that Howards Government didn't need to find.
Cutting the pensions of single mothers of Aussie kids to balance a budget that can find 2 billion to imprison economic refugees.

05:56pm 29/07/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5325 posts
06:00pm 29/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20228 posts
So with illegal arrivals presently running at about 1000 per week 50000 per year will equal about $6b p.a

We already run a $40b deficit under this useless government so how do we pay for all this extra spending on people who aren't even Australian? Labor has already raided its foreign aid budget for refugees. Fpot has given no thought at all to how things are paid for. $6b a year! That's a lot of hospitals and schools and indigenous funding programs you are saying should instead go to foreigners. We can't do both now. (Delusional greens voters think otherwise.)
08:34am 30/07/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5326 posts
08:55am 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14217 posts
So with illegal arrivals presently running at about 1000 per week

Source? Is this a spike or expected to be sustained?
10:20am 30/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
329 posts
Source? Is this a spike or expected to be sustained?


You must live in a cave. Watch the news.
10:53am 30/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10522 posts
A people smuggler source has revealed the marketing spiel that has already driven 1300 fresh asylum seekers to Christmas Island since Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his tough new ‘’PNG solution’’ on July 19.


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/smugglers-busier-than-ever-before-20130729-2qv41.html#ixzz2aTNylN1t

1300 in 10 days
11:05am 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14218 posts
You must live in a cave. Watch the news.

I was actually looking for a credible source that could give us information on the current situation and rational estimates regarding expected arrivals medium to long term, backed up with solid analysis based on fact rather than emotion. You know, someone with expert knowledge in the area.

Its amazing and quite telling that you seem to think that 'watching the news' is the place to get this..
11:26am 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23120 posts
So with illegal arrivals presently running at about 1000 per week 50000 per year will equal about $6b p.a
Cherry picking logical fallacy.

Now sheerpossumbonertron, before you have another hissyfit over me calling your big brother here out on logical fallacies again, think of a step that you could both take to stop me doing so.
12:59pm 30/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
330 posts
I was actually looking for a credible source that could give us information on the current situation and rational estimates regarding expected arrivals medium to long term, backed up with solid analysis based on fact rather than emotion. You know, someone with expert knowledge in the area. Its amazing and quite telling that you seem to think that 'watching the news' is the place to get this..


The information you are after is easily accessible by a quick google search and has also been posted in here by numerous people. Go back and read some of Fpots posts.

Don't be lazy.
01:37pm 30/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20230 posts
Cherry picking logical fallacy.


Don't be lazy relying on outdated data. Latest arrivals stats have been referred to by Rudd, Evans and Carr in their releases on the policy.
01:49pm 30/07/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5940 posts
Don't be lazy relying on outdated data. Latest arrivals stats have been referred to by Rudd, Evans and Carr in their releases on the policy.

That doesnt make em right.
01:53pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14219 posts
The information you are after is easily accessible by a quick google search and has also been posted in here by numerous people. Go back and read some of Fpots posts.Don't be lazy.

The reputable, independent analysis that points to 50,000 arrivals per year is where exactly?
01:55pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23121 posts
So what you're saying is that you don't understand how taking the latest weeks arrivals, multiplying it by 50 assuming that every week this year will be the same, is a problem? uhhhh
03:25pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23124 posts
By the way, Coalition announces plan to establish tent city to house 2,000 asylum seekers on Nauru. Does anyone else think that comic satirizing the farcical nature of the two parties trying to one up each other with terrible plans is asinine now?

Nauru's population in 2010 was 9322. Can anyone here foresee any possible problems with 2000 miserable, incarcerated people suddenly arriving there?
03:37pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1196 posts
Speaking of a 2000 person tent city...

Coalition's 'tent city exclusive' trip funded by tent company


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/coalitions-tent-city-exclusive-trip-funded-by-tent-company-20130730-2qws3.html#ixzz2aVN3gAjn
03:50pm 30/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1035 posts
It would be comical if it wasn't a lot of people's lives at stake here.

Clive Palmer's solutions are looking like a sane choice.
03:53pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23125 posts
I'd vote for him except he doesn't support the NBN.
03:59pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14221 posts
It would be comical if it wasn't a lot of people's lives at stake here.Clive Palmer's solutions are looking like a sane choice.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-30/let-asylum-seekers-fly-to-australia-palmer/4102422

Christ, you're not wrong. What a joke when crazy old mate Palmer is the voice of reason!
04:12pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10106 posts
Except that most of the votes gained by boat politics has nothing to do with saving lives.

You saw it Mo's argument... It is about appealing to the we don't like foreigners vote.
04:54pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10107 posts
Keeping in mind this is 10 days after the harshest (way harsher than the pacific solution) legislation.

I am guessing that they don't read www.news.com.au now that you have to sign in over in Indonesia...

i.e. our local laws aren't going to do anything about reducing or increasing arrivals. They are unrelated.


To the the people frothing at the mouth imagine if for some reason Australia became a warzone and you and yours were forced to flee. Because for some reason all c***roaches were beheading Queenslanders (or vice versa) ... because Queensland has all these fat mining riches and we decided to leave the federation.

Would you
a. sit patiently for years in a camp waiting for resettlement? (ask the Sudanese how long you can spend in camps)
b. use all your saved resources and try any means possible to get to a place far far away that didn't have any of the violence/civil decay issues?
c. check the world news papers and laws and see which of them had the softest laws and the best holiday tent city to stay in while awaiting a trip to the mainland then book a trip with your local rickety boat ?
d. f*** off idiot straya c*** it'd never happen hear, also 8peat queenslander!!! queenslander!!! queenslander!!!

These people are doing what any person who gives a f*** who try to do. Not saying that you need to like them or love them or what that means for policy. But they are people, who are probably more like you then they are different.
05:13pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
21 posts
Except that most of the votes gained by boat politics has nothing to do with saving lives.

You saw it Mo's argument... It is about appealing to the we don't like foreigners vote.

I like foreigners. Typical left wing rhetoric. Not supporting anything to do with anything that isn't 100% with them and all of a sudden you're an xenophobe.
05:15pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14223 posts
Can anyone explain why some people are allowed to fly to Australia and apply for asylum yet others are not? Is it unreasonable in 2013 to expect that people would use an airplane to get the f*** out of a bad situation?
05:33pm 30/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18511 posts
i think it weeds out the people actually seeking asylum from conflict/whatever and the ones who are just sick of where they live and don't want to go through the proper process to move here
05:49pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4414 posts
By the way, Coalition announces plan to establish tent city to house 2,000 asylum seekers on Nauru. Does anyone else think that comic satirizing the farcical nature of the two parties trying to one up each other with terrible plans is asinine now?Nauru's population in 2010 was 9322. Can anyone here foresee any possible problems with 2000 miserable, incarcerated people suddenly arriving there?



A tent city when as we all know the people in detention spend a huge amount of time in detention. F**** me how this could be seen as any kind of solution hell its not even what i would call a stop gap meassure. Yep things are getting way beyond f*****g ridiculous and this s*** is absorbing way to much time that should be spent of more important issues.

Btw fpot why havent you given up yet?
05:50pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23127 posts
Btw fpot why havent you given up yet?
I guess because when I see something posted that is a blatant lie, and all it takes is a few minutes to reply and prove it isn't true, I can't resist.
06:01pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14224 posts
i think it weeds out the people actually seeking asylum from conflict/whatever and the ones who are just sick of where they live and don't want to go through the proper process to move here

What's the proper process to seek asylum that they are not going through? Also for bonus points, point out where the queue is..
06:15pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4415 posts
I think he is talking about people who arent genuine refugees Hogy


Just a qiestion, does anyone have a pretty solid figure on how much these refugees pay for these boat trips? I am only asking because if it is say more than the price of a flight to australia why in hell would you get on a boat? Wouldnt you get the same result if you rolled up at customs and claimed assylum as you would getting detained by the navy and carted off to xmas island?

Or does it some how make claiming you are a refugee some what easier doing it from the deck of a sinkong boat?
06:46pm 30/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20231 posts
So what you're saying is that you don't understand how taking the latest weeks arrivals, multiplying it by 50 assuming that every week this year will be the same, is a problem? uhhhh


so 1300 arrive in one week and you still think an annual rate of 17000 is realistic? C'mon talk about cherry picking. Live in the now. This flow of refugees is becoming a torrent. We need to have control over our borders.

Combine that with the fact that Australia accommodating all asylum seekers is actively acknowledging an organised crime industry of people smuggling, it really is sick. The first rule of good leadership for any organisation is not to reward behaviour you don't want to see more of. People seeking asylum can arrive by air or apply for asylum from overseas, as far as I am concerned there should be a new offence of aiding and abetting a people smuggler.

So any person who pays a people smuggler or takes passage on a people smuggler boat for which passage was paid for which crosses into Australian waters is committing an Australian offence. As a result the minute they enter Australia to claim asylum they would be deported for criminal activity. People smuggling must be stopped at all costs because these criminals are dictating Australia's migration policy.
06:58pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14225 posts
I think he is talking about people who arent genuine refugees Hogy

How many of these are there?
So any person who pays a people smuggler or takes passage on a people smuggler boat for which passage was paid for which crosses into Australian waters is committing an Australian offence.

This is a compete f*****g lie. If they are committing an offense, why aren't they EVER charged? Oh yeh, that pesky refugee convention!
so 1300 arrive in one week and you still think an annual rate of 17000 is realistic? C'mon talk about cherry picking. Live in the now. This flow of refugees is becoming a torrent. We need to have control over our borders.

Wow, do you honestly believe the drivel that you spew onto this forum, or is this all an elaborate troll?
07:05pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4416 posts
I hate to point this out to you infi but border control for australia is never going to be 100% s*** i doubt it would ever be 50%. We could have the entire US navy patroling out coast line and people would still find gapping holes to just sail on through.
07:06pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23130 posts
Last year, 90.5% of people who arrived by boat were granted refugee status.

source (just search for 90.5% to find the section that says this).

This is a compete f*****g lie. If they are committing an offense, why aren't they EVER charged? Oh yeh, that pesky refugee convention!
He was speaking hypothetically. In a fantasy infi world he thinks it would be a good idea to charge asylum seekers (despite the fact that a large percentage of them are genuine) with a crime for paying someone to send them here.
07:12pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4417 posts
I still want to know why people pay bulls*** cash to risk the trip on a boat and not just fly here? Surely theu would be detained and processed in the same manner?
07:42pm 30/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
940 posts
I still want to know why people pay bulls*** cash to risk the trip on a boat and not just fly here? Surely theu would be detained and processed in the same manner?


The getting on I think is the hard part. It's easier (i.e. possible) to get onto a boat on a dock as opposed to booking a flight at an airport with no docs.
07:43pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14226 posts
I still want to know why people pay bulls*** cash to risk the trip on a boat and not just fly here? Surely theu would be detained and processed in the same manner?

Because they are blocked at the source airport in places like Indonesia etc. at the request of the Australia's Government. This is when they get desperate and look for boats.
07:53pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23131 posts
if it is say more than the price of a flight to australia why in hell would you get on a boat? Wouldnt you get the same result if you rolled up at customs and claimed assylum as you would getting detained by the navy and carted off to xmas island?
This will answer that and other questions. It's rather long, but if you really want to know the answer to your question you'll read it. It also contains other good bits of information, like how queue jumping is a myth, and where asylum seekers get their money from.
07:58pm 30/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10527 posts
Rudd cant call an Election until he stops the Boats.

haha this Election is back to Hilarity Mode.
08:33pm 30/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1036 posts
Go back to where you came from part 2 is on SBS right now.

Peter Reith really does put the c*** in f*** off our c***ry is full.
08:41pm 30/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3109 posts
it's high drama on the high seas
08:50pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4418 posts
Peter rieth is a f*****g scumbag
08:50pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36135 posts
Wow, do you honestly believe the drivel that you spew onto this forum, or is this all an elaborate troll?


i think he actually does matey.
09:09pm 30/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3110 posts
Maybe you would have them come and live at your house, Taipan? If you're so morally f*****g righteous open your housing communities to them as a show of putting your money where you mouth is old boy. (i've only seen the communities that the didge have here but it seems to work serindipitously dreamtimey for them when the cops aren't accidentally killing them in custody because they drink themselves to the edge of death)

Remember, it's your ultra imperialist f*****g country that has primarily added to the cause of their displacement with the retaliation that pretty much had to happen for that September 11 nightmare. And we could keep going deeper and deeper but what's the point. Or are they not the refugee's that are leaving the middle east at ending up in indo, hoveling around wherever they do waiting for a chance to get on a death trap boat?

Anyway I'm getting sidetracked, these are probably indo refugee's escaping over crowded shanty towns not bombed out dead terrorist hideouts.

You'd be hard pressed to find any bogan Aussie other than yours truly who will lift a finger to try and understand the bigger picture of this one. Most of them I've met can barely look after themselves or manage their greed or the needs of their families let alone take on the challenge of thinking outside of their comfortable existence for the greater good. It's a hard topic, stop the boats full stop and throw those kiddies in for a swim or process them and let them resettle and form businesses and communities of their own somewhere in Australia.

That's about as positive an opinion I can come to given the Foreign Correspondent reporting I have seen on these issues. It just seems like pure politics with no resolution other than rhetoric.

The Jewish nationalist bureaucrats I have met in office are much more knowledgeable, maybe they will solve it. I hope they do. I can only be a bleeding heart lib for so long before it makes me even more miserable thinking about how good we have it here. Even if you live on the streets roughing it trying to make a political message against the excesses of capitalism (which I haven't done yet, but I have my camera and it's on the bucket list) it's at least a safe and reasonably clean existence.

It gets harder to live further down the scale in quality of life rather than up the more you learn.

Sustainability is a balancing act that doesn't ever work because as a species we are programmed to consume and continue to consume and then provide for the ones closest to us.

If you're a fundamental Green, it basically means you're retarded or having trouble accepting that to consume is human even in the face of the global warming message that we see creeping death on us year on year as the Al Gore frog in the boiling water analogy goes.

This is all I care to know about politics, it's a never ending argument inc and it's as boring as watching paint dry. If only people could learn to be more selfish and just focus on selfishness instead of reaching over my tabs for my opinion.
09:55pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14227 posts
An almost lucid moment from trillion!
09:57pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
14553 posts
Its getting seriously comical now mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-30/coalition-accused-of-conflict-of-interest-over-nauru-tent-plan/4854280

Any lib supporters should be ashamed that their reps are falling into this trap.

Labor knows that as long as Tony is lead tory that all of the left prefs will still flow to them first, so by shifting right on some these issues they can push the coalition further and further toward the extremist fringe, and still appear more centrist themselves.

Political strategy trumps core values with both of them. Small parties are going to get more attention than ever this election IMO. Assange might even Bradbury his way into the senate.
10:03pm 30/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23133 posts
Assange might even Bradbury his way into the senate.
http://i.imgur.com/59YWyOX.jpg
10:10pm 30/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3111 posts
I've been blinder, Hoggy. I wish I still was.

Try modelling a helicopter with maya and marmoset/udk down to shiny metallic nut and bolt detail and then texturing and light mapping that thing. If you weren't blind before you sure will be for a long time after you've never quite perfectly enough finished it. I _f*****g hate_ how long the poly freeform takes to do on my own. It is also a constantly nagging source of creationist imperfection dilemma, or something. or whatever that Dawkins book is supposed to mean. What an old pickle.

p.s. and now have a look at the downsie syndrome's turning their httpd off at http://www.sbs.com.au/goback/

special broadcasting sure does fit their re-tardiness.

those stupid stupid retards.

Actually what's been gnawing at me is I got some c***'s insurance letter for $4,600 in damage repairs to a s***box Toyota the other day because they get their licence off the back of a cereal box or it's like they're driving in downtown automata Tokyo. I promptly fed it to the paper shredder.
10:55pm 30/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10528 posts
The Greens Plan is to increase the Refugees we take from Camps in Indonesia so they wont have to travel by Boat.

But those who cant get into those Camps or don't get picked will still come by boat.

Milne on LateLine says she cant say how many Refugees they would take.
Bit like fpot.

The Greens are just legalising people smuggling.
11:26pm 30/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4419 posts
Nuked my own post because whats the point :-(

Ill say this though. The only thing people should be focusing on to do with this issue is how ridiculously important it seems to have become for our two main political parties to score cheap votes from. The real issue here is politicians treating Australians like bogan idiots.
11:41pm 30/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3112 posts
i don't mean to lower the tone with the one upmanship, i'm just all pumped up on test and adrenalin from having an excellent smashing of tennis at the courts

12:55am 31/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10109 posts
I like foreigners. Typical left wing rhetoric. Not supporting anything to do with anything that isn't 100% with them and all of a sudden you're an xenophobe.

nah you should go back and re-read your stuff.

You say stuff as fact when it's not true. And your burning number 1 reason for not liking refugees was "they get more stuff than aussies(me)".
10:34am 31/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20232 posts
Have you ever thought that if the issue is important to voters then ipso facto it is an important issue that needs to be dealt with? I know the left wing intelligentsia like to think they know better than the common people but last I checked we live in a democracy.
11:59am 31/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14228 posts
I know the left wing intelligentsia like to think they know better than the common people but last I checked we live in a democracy.

Funny how you slag the voters when they have a different opinion to you on issues (like who should be Governing) infi. You're such a f*****g hypocrite.
12:19pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
10 posts
if the issue is important to voters then ipso facto it is an important issue that needs to be dealt with?


it's possible but not necessarily true. The main thing could also be what "dealt with" means. Over the last few years, Afghanistan has been the No. 1 country of origin for these "irregular maritime arrivals" so maybe these voters would want to not bomb the crap out of Afghanis? Or maybe they want to both bomb them and then punish them for fleeing the bombs... which would make them psychotic.

Democracy doesn't work.
12:21pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
890 posts
Have you ever thought that if the issue is important to voters then ipso facto it is an important issue that needs to be dealt with? I know the left wing intelligentsia like to think they know better than the common people but last I checked we live in a democracy.

That assumes that the media has no influence on what "common people" think. When the media have vested interests in the outcome of "democracy" and the ability to control the national dialogue, just because the media tells us that "common people" think something is an issue doesn't make it true.

In other words: if people watch the news when they are scared, the people who sell the news benefit from people being scared. That is why refugees are now a national emergency that requires a military operation to deal with.
12:26pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14032 posts
Food running out
no access to fuel
no water
Indonesia declares war on Australia

These sorts of things are National Emergencies.

A bunch of people who may or may not be asylum seekers doesn't even rate on the emergency scale. This in itself should be a massive wake up call to all Australia. Why on earth does a potential prime minister consider Asylum seekers a 'National Emergency'? So sad.
12:49pm 31/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20234 posts
Funny how you slag the voters when they have a different opinion to you on issues (like who should be Governing) infi. You're such a f*****g hypocrite.


what the f*** are you talking about? The voters have the final say, and both parties have realized the key issues through their statistical polling. Get your head out of your ass and accept that this is the current BBQ stopper. Voters like to feel our country is in control of its borders and not beholden to people smugglers.
01:01pm 31/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10530 posts
haha Labor goes to the Vice Well again.
Smokes up $2 a pack.
Booze will be next.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-31/rudd-flags-tobacco-tax-increase/4855836
01:04pm 31/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
332 posts
The libs plan to put 2000 of these people in a tent city nauru is crap. We have already seen what 200 of these bogus "poor and desperate" "asylum seekers" can do. Rape, Murder, torture, rioting, destruction.

The entire adult population of Nauru had to be deputized to control just 200..... imagine 2000.

Why would we want economic migrants who are more than willing to rape, murder and torture people into the country? If anything they would be on their best behaviour to present the picture that they are poor and desperate people but instead they show a picture of "we don't give a s***, we will do what we want, let us in"

haha Labor goes to the Vice Well again.
Smokes up $2 a pack.
Booze will be next.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-31/rudd-flags-tobacco-tax-increase/4855836


What do people expect? Labor is a party of more tax and more debt.
01:21pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4422 posts
Have you ever thought that if the issue is important to voters then ipso facto it is an important issue that needs to be dealt with? I know the left wing intelligentsia like to think they know better than the common people but last I checked we live in a democracy.



What you think the libs give a flying f*** about the common people?!?! BWAHAHAHA thats f*****g some ridiculous s*** right there. Work choices anyone?

This is how clueless these lib c**** are as to who an average/common aussie is. I vividly recall Howard back when he was selling the gst at a photo op leaning against a $90,000 four wheel drive proudly stating how itll come down in price a few grand under the gst. When asked by a journo how many average aussies he though could afford a $90,000 car he replied that he knew many average australians that had cars of that value.

This was what, 15 years ago or something like that and right there it become glaringly obvious just how far removed these d*******s are from the reality of average every day australia. Theu carry on about the aussie battler and when they are done patting him on the back going good on ya cobber they switch hands and f*****g kinfe him.
01:25pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4262 posts
Smokes up $2 a pack.

that'll fix the wagon of those hundred or so bogans who still smoke

make em $2 a cig, or are they already that?
01:43pm 31/07/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1444 posts
The real issue here is politicians treating Australians like bogan idiots.


>you post your guns once a month
>you say "these lib c****"

You see the irony here right?

And please keep in mind, people who can afford $90,000 cars are the people creating jobs in Australia... Not the lazy half arsed council workers protected by stupid f*****g unions.
02:10pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4424 posts
Guns = bogan?

Calling a c*** a c*** = bogan?

I didnt realise only bogans were allowed to use certain words and take part in shooting sports. Youre kidding yourself, go outside and give yourzelf an uppercut.

Btw consumers creat jobs because they are the market, stop watching Fox pinhead

Btw nice troll
02:41pm 31/07/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1446 posts
go outside and give yourzelf an uppercut.
yourzelf
http://i.imgur.com/flFBF.jpg
Btw consumers creat jobs because they are the market, stop watching Fox pinhead


lol when you're done shooting posters of John Howard, tell me more about how consumers buying Chinese made TVs from wallmart has saved the economy (rofl lol rofl lol)
02:54pm 31/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23134 posts
A new frother has entered the fray.
02:56pm 31/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1037 posts
03:11pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4425 posts
Thats pretty much bang on redhat.

Btw sorry about the typos i tend to miss the odd key here and there on my phone.

Oh and just so you know wal mart is doing pretty well selling chinese tvs all the while paying their workers so little they have to rely on government handouts to get by. This isnt job creation mate its personal wealth creation for the pricks at the top which is being subsidised by the taxpayer
03:13pm 31/07/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1447 posts
Job creators......Arkter with the luls!
http://i.imgur.com/cZsHPAp.gif
This isnt job creation mate its personal wealth creation for the pricks at the top which is being subsidised by the taxpayer
http://i.imgur.com/WyO3ZE0.jpg
03:54pm 31/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20235 posts
Arkter goes to Occupy Wall Street rallies.
04:39pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
23 posts
http://i.imgur.com/WyO3ZE0.jpg

And who creates the most number of jobs? Here's a hint. it isn't that hippy selling over priced coffee to hispters
04:41pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6977 posts
And who creates the most number of jobs? Here's a hint. it isn't that hippy selling over priced coffee to hispters
Consumers. The only true job creator is demand for goods and services.
04:45pm 31/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
941 posts
it isn't that hippy selling over priced coffee to hispters


Er selling coffee to hispters is a MASSIVE business.
05:43pm 31/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3118 posts
lol Howards Store Rage.
05:56pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14033 posts
Wealth does indeed trickle down. It might not be as efficient as we would like.
05:57pm 31/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18512 posts
The libs plan to put 2000 of these people in a tent city nauru is crap. We have already seen what 200 of these bogus "poor and desperate" "asylum seekers" can do. Rape, Murder, torture, rioting, destruction.

The entire adult population of Nauru had to be deputized to control just 200..... imagine 2000.

Why would we want economic migrants who are more than willing to rape, murder and torture people into the country? If anything they would be on their best behaviour to present the picture that they are poor and desperate people but instead they show a picture of "we don't give a s***, we will do what we want, let us in


was anyone actually raped or murdered in that incident or are you just trying to make your argument sound better?
06:02pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2408 posts
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good yarn.
06:12pm 31/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
942 posts
was anyone actually raped or murdered in that incident or are you just trying to make your argument sound better?


Not only were people raped but they were raped by economic zombie vampires. Don't let em in.
08:53pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10110 posts
10:24pm 31/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10533 posts
Nowhere in that chart is there a Plan for stopping the boats.
10:35pm 31/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20239 posts
Nowhere in that chart does it discuss how organized criminals are getting rich endangering people's lives.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/burke-to-visit-manus-island-in-wake-of-abuse-claims-20130723-2qhie.html
10:39pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10112 posts
Try again ... there is 2 options if you actually give a s*** about people drowning.
10:41pm 31/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3121 posts
this info graphic is the work of tentacles of a muslim UN peace keeper.

or indeed a social democrat.
10:45pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10113 posts
wee ... infi goes on to the rollercoaster of misdirection.

If we (Australia) were truly interested in stopping deaths we'd take the Palmer option and fly them here. It's cheaper and results in less deaths.
10:45pm 31/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23137 posts
Don't worry infi, that chart has you covered with the far right 'no' option. Remember this post?

http://i.imgur.com/CZgaj15.jpg

"unfortunately, savage treatment is all the savages understand. it is part of the middle-eastern culture" So you want to tell us the real reason you hate the idea of refugees coming here or are you still going to pretend it's about people smugglers getting rich?
10:54pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
26 posts
Nowhere in that chart does it discuss how organized criminals are getting rich endangering people's lives.http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/burke-to-visit-manus-island-in-wake-of-abuse-claims-20130723-2qhie.html

Don't you know? None one makes money from asylum seekers. Because where are people who earn a few $100 a year going to get $20,000+ for a seat on a boat?
10:56pm 31/07/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11454 posts
Who said that Mo?
11:02pm 31/07/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7997 posts
What a bulls*** flowchart. We're seeing a lot of this attitude of "If you don't disagree with Rudd's plan, you have no compassion" hyperbole. Funnier is that this one ends with "oh no someone's going to exterminate white Aussies".

Pathetic.
07:13am 01/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4263 posts
admit it u hate mulims
08:07am 01/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20241 posts
So you want to tell us the real reason you hate the idea of refugees coming here or are you still going to pretend it's about people smugglers getting rich?


It's a lot harder to get RPGs over here, nor do we tend to summarily execute our police officers over here, so that's not the real concern. My real concern (as is the concern of many Australian voters) is people entering Australia unrestricted. I prefer Australia to be in charge of Australia's borders. If someone wants to come here they can fill out the form that everyone else has to fill out.
08:37am 01/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1448 posts
Because most of us can read a flowchart.


Tis a silly chart.

admit it u hate mulims


I really like the idea of peace, oppressing women and imaginary people hooking me up with virgins.

http://i.imgur.com/RXLlf9X.jpg
09:00am 01/08/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7998 posts
admit it u hate mulims

I hate all people when they do anything based on religious rationale, I certainly don't limit it to muslims.
09:11am 01/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1449 posts
I hate all people when they do anything based on religious rationale, I certainly don't limit it to muslims.

+1
09:26am 01/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1731 posts
That flowchart is a bit s*** Obes. Tired of hearing political debates that consist of you're a horrible monster if you don't agree with me. In fact, tired of any argument that goes like that, including religious ones.
11:27am 01/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20242 posts
Australia's longest serving foreign minister.

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/10285
12:02pm 01/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1451 posts
Australia's longest serving foreign minister.http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/10285



so much win.
01:23pm 01/08/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1197 posts
Australia's longest serving foreign minister.http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/10285


conversely, Australia's shortest serving Liberal leader preaching to the choir with an open platform and no hard questions on the policy.
01:38pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
336 posts
Remember when we had a competent government with competent ministers like Alexander Downer? Those were the days.
01:46pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
337 posts
A quick round up of this weeks new taxes and tax increases from Labor, the party of more tax and more debt.

Tax increase on Cigarets
A new tax on bank deposits
Fringe benefits tax changes doubling the tax for some businesses eg; car dealers

It's only Thursday and the week isn't over so we may have more new taxes/increases.
05:16pm 01/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20246 posts
I am waiting for the asylum seeker funding levy.
05:30pm 01/08/13 Permalink
cJay
Brisbane, Queensland
1378 posts
I am waiting for the asylum seeker funding levy.


At the moment on top of all the other fees and taxes we are being f***ed by this would be one I could rationalise.
06:00pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
943 posts
I'd side with infi etal on the Tobacco tax. I'm not a smoker but from treasury's own documents:

Tobacco excise is a relatively stable source of revenue. Due to its relatively addictive nature, price changes have a relatively limited impact on tobacco consumption.


Givin Rudd's obvious lack of ethical agency, it's hard not to read this as we can take money from these people because they are addicted.

Or more broadly, I'm going to rip off a vulnerable drug addict, because he is just going to keep coming back.
06:34pm 01/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14038 posts
Sounds like a Liberal move, you are only against it because it was done by Labor hahah. Not to worry, I don't smoke.
06:42pm 01/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36154 posts
tax smokers to f*****g oblivion.
07:01pm 01/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23140 posts
In a perfect world tobacco companies would be done away with and the government could handle the disbursement of cigarettes. That way they'd be able to collect more revenue without making cigarettes ridiculously expensive like this new tax will do.
07:07pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
944 posts
Sounds like a Liberal move


Actually Rudd has form in this area. He was the first to directly raise taxes on smoking since 1994. Gillard had a couple of swipes as well. This is a Labor move.

I have no problem with a punative tax on smokers because of the burden they place on the public health system *but* This must be balanced against the fact that smoking is viewed largely negatively these days, which makes them an easy target for this kind of thing.
07:25pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
338 posts
I'm betting on the next big tax increase to be on alcohol spirits. Labor always targets alcohol and cigarets when it needs more tax to plug its budget holes(that they don't actually manage to plug anyway)

In a perfect world tobacco companies would be done away with and the government could handle the disbursement of cigarettes. That way they'd be able to collect more revenue without making cigarettes ridiculously expensive like this new tax will do.


Fpots perfect world is socialism. Of course Fpot supports the nationalization of industries and businesses, what a surprise.

/rollseyes
07:25pm 01/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14041 posts

I have no problem with turning the boats away because of the burden they place on Australia's financial system *but* This must be balanced against the fact that boat people are viewed largely negatively these days, which makes them an easy target for this kind of thing.


hehehe
07:27pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
945 posts
Whats your point tollaz0r?

I find it unethical to exploit vulnerable people for political ends, whether they're refugees or smokers. I'm unsurprised and saddened by Rudd's willingness to do both.
07:32pm 01/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10535 posts
legalise pot
regulate it
tax it = huge $$$$
08:14pm 01/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10536 posts
instead of meaningless symbolic statements and saying sorry how about the Political Partys do something about this:

John Lawrence, president of the Northern Territory Bar Association, says that during the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, the number of indigenous people in Australian jails was 14 per cent.

"In 1989 that was perceived as scandalous and disgraceful," Mr Lawrence told AAP.

More than twenty years later, that figure has nearly doubled to 27 per cent.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/australians-immune-to-prison-problem/story-e6frfku9-1226689755084#ixzz2aiJRqIHc

Makes you wonder why other Nations indigenous people want to come here.
08:58pm 01/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20247 posts
Nationalization of tobacco companies. Sounds like another loony Greens policy. Haha
09:10pm 01/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10538 posts
Taxing the Banks now !
and the Banks will pass that on to their customers.
Just imagine how much Taxing they will doing if they actually win.

10:50pm 01/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23143 posts
Just to put my guns down for a second, I agree with you, it's loony as. That's why I said in a perfect world ie something that will never exist. The tobacco companies are multinational giants and they aren't going anywhere soon. They're the closest thing to 'evil' you can really get though - they manufacture a highly addictive drug and use a delivery system that kills you making billions of dollars in the process. Don't you agree it would be better if instead of tobacco revenue going back to the people who are the sole cause of the problem, that it would be better if it went to the government who could use the money for harm minimisation? Maybe even come up with some plan to get rid of smoking forever by encouraging people to use e-cigs which to my understanding deliver the nicotine without all the cancer causing stuff that comes with the combustion of tobacco?

But as I said, never gonna happen.
11:25pm 01/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
339 posts

Just imagine how much Taxing they will doing if they actually win.


We don't need to imagine, we have experienced it all since 2007.

Carbon tax
Flood tax
Mining tax
Alcopops tax
Countless ciggie tax increases
NDIS tax

there is more but i can't think of them all, just so many.

Just to put my guns down for a second, I agree with you, it's loony as. That's why I said in a perfect world ie something that will never exist. The tobacco companies are multinational giants and they aren't going anywhere soon. They're the closest thing to 'evil' you can really get though - they manufacture a highly addictive drug and use a delivery system that kills you making billions of dollars in the process. Don't you agree it would be better if instead of tobacco revenue going back to the people who are the sole cause of the problem, that it would be better if it went to the government who could use the money for harm minimisation? Maybe even come up with some plan to get rid of smoking forever by encouraging people to use e-cigs which to my understanding deliver the nicotine without all the cancer causing stuff that comes with the combustion of tobacco?But as I said, never gonna happen.


New Zealand plans to ban ciggies by 2020.
11:44pm 01/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23144 posts
That means the government will receive $0 from tobacco tax revenue and they'll be sold without health warnings because tobacco will still be sold on the black market in large quantities.
11:48pm 01/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3772 posts
Heh surprisingly i support all those taxes. They only benefit me, except perhaps the NDIS and flood levy.
The banks are making ridiculous profits. If they all had to pay the same tax, i doubt it will be passed onto the consumer. At the moment the banks have a choice whether to pass on rate cuts or not. And most of them seem to wait to the very last moment, as they draw millions per day by that choice.
12:27am 02/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3129 posts
Just to put my guns down for a second,


yes put down that Nerf

I agree with you, it's loony as. That's why I said in a perfect world ie something that will never exist. The tobacco companies are multinational giants and they aren't going anywhere soon. They're the closest thing to 'evil' you can really get though - they manufacture a highly addictive drug and use a delivery system that kills you making billions of dollars in the process.


oh hey you wouldn't know they were the spawn of the devils jizzum if you are blinded by the up close and personal advertising by sinfully hot night club girls that have booths inside night clubs, because a vending machine is kinda impersonal. one of their wicked marketing techniques that one i suppose.

Don't you agree it would be better if instead of tobacco revenue going back to the people who are the sole cause of the problem, that it would be better if it went to the government who could use the money for harm minimisation?


well then you would be denying these so called 'people who are the cause of "the" problem' their investment cycle in what feeds the habit. as you probably learnt since you were thirteen or fourteen if you went to a sensible school, it's a choice. (or if it was a private school they might have not talked about it at all to avoid discussion on the subject entirely, mind control and exclusion of certain politics of those social issues is a powerful inhibitor)

Maybe even come up with some plan to get rid of smoking forever by encouraging people to use e-cigs which to my understanding deliver the nicotine without all the cancer causing stuff that comes with the combustion of tobacco?


yiss, while it's true: the gadgetry of one is far more cumbersome than the tried and tested efficiency of a factory rolled cigarette.

have you tried talking a smoker out of smoking? it's like taking a pacifier from a baby's mouth, you're going to cause tears and possible violent reactions.

But as I said, never gonna happen.


You're probably right, scrub. at least the advertising profile of the those brands has been significantly reduced in recent years so the message of consume consume consume xTHIS BRANDx is not as prevalent as it probably would have been to people that grew up in the 50's 60's and 70's. come to think of it, Mad Men is so good it should be required viewing in at least all state secondary schools as an insight into how the companies advertising basically anything is powerfully embedded into capitalism as the catalyst that guides consumption.

so i'm no russel brand x or todd sampson and the gruen panel, but if digital isn't the holy grail in some aspects, it has been at least an interesting experiment in 'how does this work and what does this button do' so far. ;)
12:27am 02/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1038 posts
there is more but i can't think of them all, just so many.


Yeah Liberals only introduced one tax.

ON EVERYTHING YOU BUY.

While I don't like people smoking, cig tax hike is a regressive tax that hurts lower income earners as they have a higher rate of smoking.

Bank deposit tax is a good move. The Australian people were insuring the banks for free and they have made massive profits. Think of it as an insurance premium.
08:48am 02/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6445 posts
^ The banks will just pass the extra cost onto the punters.

so actually this is another Labor fail.
09:07am 02/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14042 posts
Whilst I support the idea of basically getting the nation to pay a small amount each for what amounts to an insurance program for bank collapse I have issues with the following (taken from ABC news)


The money raised will go into a new Financial Stability Fund to be used in the event of a bank collapse, but will be counted as revenue in the budget.


Why count it as revenue? That seems like dodgy accounting, at face value it seems like the money can be used for anything. It comes in as revenue and somewhere else in the budget spending is offset by this revenue.. If it is going into a Fund, it shouldn't be revenue as it is locked into that fund. Also I'm a assuming the fund will be deposited in a bank, does that mean it taxes itself, adding to itself...?

Since it is locked into a Fund that money can't(shouldn't?) be spent on anything else hence why it shouldn't be counted as revenue..
10:05am 02/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20249 posts
You know that fee free savings account you have? Expect monthly account fees to come back.

Labor can't help but tax, it's in their DNA.
11:20am 02/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
340 posts
Mini Budget today -

- Budget black hole is bigger
- Promised 2016 surplus will now be smaller
- Tax revenue down at a staggering $100 billion
- Unemployment set to rise to 6.25%
- The new PNG scheme will cost 1.1 billion

Remember just last week Labor was telling us all that the Economy is in tip top shape and they can't understand what all the fuss is about? Also they said the Liberals "budget emergency" was fake? lol classic Labor. Lie after lie

^ The banks will just pass the extra cost onto the punters.

so actually this is another Labor fail.


Exactly. Labor is indirectly taxing people. Instead of taking the tax straight from our balances, they are taking it from the bank, but it's still based on our deposits which will be passed on by the banks....
02:02pm 02/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1039 posts
Those funny commies at getup have released a spoof ad after the Business Council of Australia recommended lowering corporation taxes and increasing GST.

http://www.thebca.com.au/
02:36pm 02/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14044 posts

From December 1, the tax on cigarettes will rise by 12.5 per cent each year for four years, raising $5.3 billion over the forward estimates.


Also from the government:


"[The] last time tobacco tax was increased it appears to have reduced consumption of tobacco by about 11 per cent," Mr Bowen said.


I bet that $5.3 billion 'estimate' doesn't take into account a drop in cigarette purchasing as prices rise, which would actually make that $5.3 billion about $4.7 billion, I just wiped 600 million off the budget.. Then I wonder if they are taking into account a slowly reducing consumption of cigarettes as people slowly learn they suck ass, of this I truly hope they have accounted for.

The cost of my NBN is getting more and more expensive with all these are dodgy policies.
03:10pm 02/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
341 posts
Those funny commies at getup have released a spoof ad after the Business Council of Australia recommended lowering corporation taxes and increasing GST.http://www.thebca.com.au/


The most hilarious thing about that spoof site is that they have parts that are meant to be sarcastic but instead they are infact factual.

eg:
Right now, Australia is spending beyond its means. We may have experienced 22 years of unbroken economic growth, but to ensure our economic prosperity into the future, we need to free up big business to generate more profits, and pay less tax. That balance can only be found by freeing us up to earn more by asking individuals to pay more.


Australia is spending beyond its means. We have experienced 22 years of unbroken economic growth which is under thread from tax increases on business who are the wealth creators of this country and who employ us.

The Socialist GetUp group fails once again in a spectacular manner.
04:21pm 02/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20251 posts
I noted Chris Bowen still relying on the spectacularly flawed concept of stimulus economics as an excuse for not cutting the budget harder.

But if there is one thing that is sure to jolt the economy back into life it's a bunch of new taxes! Genius!
04:32pm 02/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36167 posts
IF AUSTRALIA ISNT IN SURPLUS ITS ALL OVER
08:56pm 02/08/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8004 posts
There's surplus and then there's $30 billion dollars, which represents a 10% defecit.
09:10pm 02/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6212 posts
Wow, wasn't Swan telling us it was all peachy not 9 months ago?
09:47pm 02/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
342 posts
Wow, wasn't Swan telling us it was all peachy not 9 months ago?


2 weeks ago he was telling us everything is peachy
12:04am 03/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4426 posts
Probably no less like to change his opinion on things than abbott is..... oh wait a sec
12:55am 03/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20252 posts
Everything still is peachy haha. What a bunch of amateurs.
07:40am 03/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
343 posts
150 "asylum seekers" have been charged for the Nauru riot. I hope these 150 criminals aren't let into Australia. But knowing Labor, they probably will be.
08:25am 03/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3138 posts
you still haven't figured it out have you loser. it's all about the music: frenemy of average.

08:56am 03/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10545 posts

THE federal government is reportedly planning to build an immigration detention centre in the NSW Hunter Valley and another near Darwin.

The ABC and News Limited say the funding allocation to build the NSW facility on a military base in Singleton is $43-million and it will hold up to 1000 asylum seekers. The ABC also reports that the government has allocated almost $90-million to build another centre on a defence force base at the Blaydin Point Facility near Darwin to accommodate up to 1000 people.

Details of the plans were contained in Friday's budget update papers.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/money-for-nsw-and-nt-detention-centres/story-e6frfku9-1226690540357#ixzz2asUNCWjN


so after the Election Rudd will consider it a Moral Challenge to close down the inhuman off shore sites. He'll shed some Rudd tears then a few weeks later New Taxes to fund it.
02:41pm 03/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1739 posts
06:14pm 03/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23151 posts
Nice troll.
06:17pm 03/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
344 posts
Penny Wong plays the race card. How lame.


Bah and we only just got rid of the fake "gender" bs, now they are using the fake racism card :(
06:24pm 03/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1740 posts
Its not trolling, I'm genuinely pissed that someone I respect feels the need to sink so low just to have a shot at Joe Hockey. Its just an opportunity for d*******s like Peter here to claim that all the "isms" are just made up.
07:18pm 03/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23152 posts
Well okay fair enough.

I don't really see this as playing the race card though. She was asked by a journalist what she thought and she gave a rather benign off the cuff answer. If she'd gone all fire and brimstones and started accusing Hockey of being racist then I reckon you could accuse her of playing the race card. I still can't believe that Hockey didn't recognise Nguyen as Vietnamese name as it's pretty damn common. Probably just an innocent mistake and one that he rectified.
07:37pm 03/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1741 posts
She had the opportunity there and then to say that she didn't care about such trivial BS.
07:43pm 03/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20254 posts
She was asked by a journalist what she thought and she gave a rather benign off the cuff answer.


like when Tony said "s*** happens". The squealing of the Phillip Adams intelligentisa was heard for weeks afterwards.
09:34pm 03/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1040 posts
I think Penny Wong can stand to have a few off the cuff remarks against Joe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuIbEJz23uY
11:16pm 03/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
345 posts
Its not trolling, I'm genuinely pissed that someone I respect feels the need to sink so low just to have a shot at Joe Hockey. Its just an opportunity for d*******s like Peter here to claim that all the "isms" are just made up.


Nice edit of your post.

The fact is Julia Gillards whole "Misogny" thing was fake. She use to whip it out every.......singe....time a new bad poll was released to try to take heat off of her. It's why a lot of people hated her. They were sick of it all, even women.

A desperate slur from a desperate Prime Minister
09:57am 04/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10548 posts
Labor bribed the States to sign up, there was no real option other than to go along with the States on it.

Fact is Gonski costs bucketloads of more money.
Disability Scheme costs bucketloads of money
Easy to promise the money
Where is it going to come from ?

Col Pot is coming to destroy the NBN and Rudd.
You have been warned.
11:43am 04/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4430 posts
/rolls eyes
11:50am 04/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20256 posts
The money comes from the magic money tree for free stuff that we never have to pay for.
12:06pm 04/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36172 posts
12:11pm 04/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
346 posts
I can't believe people still use the old "our debt isn't as bad as other countries, so we are fine" chestnut to justify unnecessary debt.

It's so stupid.
12:12pm 04/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2103 posts
wow - one of faceman's websites he linked months and months ago turned out to be true

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/murdoch-sends-trusted-general-col-pot-to-bring-down-rudd-over-nbn-20130803-2r6fk.html

Why Murdoch wants Rudd to lose the coming federal election is not merely political, it is commercial. News Corp hates the government's national broadband network. The company has formed a view that it poses a threat to the business model of by far its most important asset in Australia, the Foxtel cable TV monopoly it jointly owns with Telstra.
12:14pm 04/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6448 posts
The gubbermint, Libs and the msm have done a fantastic snowjob in brainwashing the sheeple into focusing on Public Debt rather than the 10 tonne gorilla that is Aussie Private Debt.
12:22pm 04/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
347 posts
Ah Yes, the old "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" hysterical conspiracy theories.

P.S Kevin has just gone to the GG to ask for an election. FINALLY
02:32pm 04/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23153 posts
Ah Yes, the old "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" hysterical conspiracy theories.
How adorably naive of you. You're just so darn cute http://i.imgur.com/mHiaGcY.gif

So what you're saying is that you don't understand how News Corp, a commercial entity that stands to lose a lot of money and have it's main piece of infrastructure threatened by Labor's NBN, might fail to be fully objective in it's reporting of the upcoming election?
03:30pm 04/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1489 posts
Ah Yes, the old "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" hysterical conspiracy theories.


Ah yes this comming from the Mexican Murdoch Media heartland....

Perhaps if you didn't hail from the "a*******" of Australia you might understand but then again one can't convince Mexicans that AFL isn't football.
04:55pm 04/08/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11061 posts
05:14pm 04/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2411 posts
Hooray!
05:16pm 04/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
348 posts
How adorably naive of you. You're just so darn cute http://i.imgur.com/mHiaGcY.gifSo what you're saying is that you don't understand how News Corp, a commercial entity that stands to lose a lot of money and have it's main piece of infrastructure threatened by Labor's NBN, might fail to be fully objective in it's reporting of the upcoming election?


People were screaming "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" before the NBN even existed, infact it's been a typical chestnut for a decade now.

But i guess rumours/conspiracies should be taken seriously and factually if it involves "MURDOCH" /rollseyes Labor is a dudd, it's going to to lose the election and it will have NOTHING to do with the media.

Ah yes this comming from the Mexican Murdoch Media heartland....Perhaps if you didn't hail from the "a*******" of Australia you might understand but then again one can't convince Mexicans that AFL isn't football.


Mexican? What? :S
05:32pm 04/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20257 posts
05:36pm 04/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10552 posts
Rudd yesterday = no election Im off to the G7
Rudd today = lets have Election

its a matter of who you trust ? did he really say that ?
Trust the ALP ? we cant even trust Treasury under Labor.

The Labor Party needs some time in the wilderness to get their s*** together.
You know theres a problem when the Leader of the Party has to create a new rule so the rest of the Party cant get rid of him if he wins. laff
06:15pm 04/08/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11062 posts
KEVIN SEP SEVEN
06:21pm 04/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6450 posts
08:01am 05/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10555 posts
12:26pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14054 posts
Non-biased reporting in all its glory in that above image haha
12:42pm 05/08/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18540 posts
i thought it was a photoshop it was that bad
12:44pm 05/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1746 posts
Goddamn Murdoch is a c*** of a man. F*** journalistic integrity, the guy just promotes self serving fiction and calls it balanced reporting.
12:47pm 05/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
350 posts
Non-biased reporting in all its glory in that above image haha


Newspapers always take sides during an election and have done so since the beginning. But it seems it's only "biased" and "wrong" when they aren't supporting Labor.

Back in 2007 when they were supporting Labor, it wasn't "Biased" or "wrong" I love the logic.
12:48pm 05/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23155 posts
No, it was wrong then too.

You have a real nasty persecution complex going there mate.
12:54pm 05/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10556 posts
If Labor is doing such a great job why did so many Ministers resign ?
Why did they stab a sitting PM in the back, twice, in the 6 years of Government ?
Why does the Leader need a special rule to make certain he stays PM if elected ?
Why do they keep lying about delivering a Surplus ?
How did they manage to go into debt when they were getting more money than previous governments ?
How did they get Refugee Policy so wrong ?

And how about that Carbon tax promise from Gillard and Swann ?

The Newspapers could be biased but maybe Labor really are S***.

01:01pm 05/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1464 posts
The Newspapers could be biased but maybe Labor really are S***.


+1

Goddamn Murdoch is a c*** of a man. F*** journalistic integrity, the guy just promotes self serving fiction and calls it balanced reporting.
http://i.imgur.com/mBVAAVf.gif
03:09pm 05/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
351 posts
The Newspapers could be biased but maybe Labor really are S***.


Labor couldn't possibly be s***. It has TO BE DA SCARYZ MURDOCHS MEDIA OMGGGGGGGGGGGG
03:18pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3773 posts
All that matters to me are; Under Coalition government's we simply don't get enough infrastructure spending. Spending is good.
We wouldn't have had an NBN.
Worker rights are often under threat from a Coalition government.
Delivering a surplus is nice, but not required. Keep the debt manageable. Having a surplus means less economic gain from Infrastructure spending.
The sooner we stop talking about Refugees the sooner it can disappear as a mainstream issue.

Not to mention, I'd feel embarrassed with a man like Abbott leading the country. At least Rudd is somewhat likable internationally, and the man can speak Mandarin, very useful for China relations.
03:36pm 05/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1043 posts
Labor couldn't possibly be s***. It has TO BE DA SCARYZ MURDOCHS MEDIA OMGGGGGGGGGGGG


A billionaire who first backed a Mormon for president now he wants to put a nutter in the Australian top job.

How are the Libs going to pay for all their promises?
http://www.smh.com.au/business/joe-hockeys-please-explain-moment-20130805-2r8fh.html

A lot of things are going to have to go to restore a surplus.
03:42pm 05/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1465 posts
.Not to mention, I'd feel embarrassed with a man like Abbott leading the country. At least Rudd is somewhat likable internationally, and the man can speak Mandarin, very useful for China relations.
03:51pm 05/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3150 posts
lol gorilla made the mower fly
03:52pm 05/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
352 posts
All that matters to me are; Under Coalition government's we simply don't get enough infrastructure spending. Spending is good.


-Funding for the $11billion dollar East-West link in Melbourne
-$8.5 billion for Bruce Highway upgrades in QLD
-Funding for westconnex

Maybe you should go do some research? But we all know you won't since you are a die hard Labor supporter.

The sooner we stop talking about Refugees the sooner it can disappear as a mainstream issue.


I had to lol the other day when you made the claim that the people on the First Fleet were refugees. The funniest thing is that you weren't trolling or joking. lmao.
05:46pm 05/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1490 posts
http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/telerudd_thumb.jpg


You do realise that the Daily Telegraphs front page is an illegal political advertisement under the Electoral act. Col Allen just came undone first day of the election.

On another note;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1094954_462069970556727_1238210427_n.jpg
06:12pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20260 posts
Nice paintshop effort^^
06:25pm 05/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1491 posts
06:26pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14236 posts
If you reckon the Telegraph's headline is OK then you're simply put a juvenile. The Fourth Estate is inherently valuable to society and should not be allowed to be corrupted by private entities. Editorial has its place, sure, but not on the front page.

Its an appalling situation regardless of which party it was being called down by the biggest newspaper in the country. I'd be equally outraged if it was Abbott, Milne, or even Hanson on the cover.
06:34pm 05/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6452 posts
A billionaire who first backed a Mormon for president now he wants to put a nutter in the Australian top job.


Rudd is just as nuts as Abbott is.
06:38pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14056 posts
The irony is, I bet Murdoch has a phat internet pipe into his house...
06:39pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20261 posts
Newspapers have been putting their editorial spin on the merits of political parties since year dot. Last I checked we have freedom of the press in Australia.
06:45pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14057 posts
I do have to admit though, that I perceive Tony to be more In it for Australia than Rudd. Rudd has that air of arrogance and self-interest. Now, Liberals please don't offer any decent policy where I may have to vote against my NBN.
06:45pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14058 posts
Also, part of me just wants to vote Labor because of that ad by Murdoch, such a douche move.
06:54pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20262 posts
I do have to admit though, that I perceive Tony to be more In it for Australia than Rudd. Rudd has that air of arrogance and self-interest. Now, Liberals please don't offer any decent policy where I may have to vote against my NBN.


Your own self-interest trumps Rudd's self-interest. Touche.
06:54pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14237 posts
Newspapers have been putting their editorial spin on the merits of providers political parties since year dot. Last Ai checked we have freedom of the press in Australia.

I am so disappoint, infi. I had some hope you would agree that the impartiality of the press is important (with a quick dig that they have a point).

We have freedom of religion too! This freedom doesn't make it ethically right or good for democracy for preachers to use their authority to endorse candidates from the pulpit.

Actually, why am I being surprised that you have no understanding of ethics or the fourth estate?! Roll on infi, you glorious one-eyed, blue bastard.
06:59pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20263 posts
The media has an obligation to represent facts as facts, politics is all a matter of opinion, and OP-ED pages of newspapers are the primary area of interest for many readers who enjoy the discourse of political debate.

There is a clear distinction between reporting a fact of a political campaign i.e. Kevin Rudd announced a policy for $200m extra support to the car industry today, and an opinion piece stating Kevin Rudd's policy to hand out $200m more largesse to the failing car industry is waste of taxpayer money.

Also, anyone who reads a newspaper is most certainly not a swinging voter.
07:04pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14238 posts
What a load of s***.

I prefer the new york times' stance on this little thing they call ethics in journalism:
89. Journalists do not take part in politics. While staff members are entitled to vote and to register in party primaries, they must do nothing that might raise questions about their professional neutrality or that of our news operations. In particular, they may not campaign for, demonstrate for, or endorse candidates, ballot causes or efforts to enact legislation. They may not wear campaign buttons or themselves display any other insignia of partisan politics.

http://www.nytco.com/press/ethics.html

Not every rag can or will ethically report the news. But we shouldn't be celebrating News Ltd literally telling voters how to think or pretend that the practice is OK.
07:10pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20264 posts
Don't buy it then. The free market is a beautiful thing.
07:13pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14239 posts
I don't buy it; but along with the free market I am also personally free to espouse my opinion on their behaviour. Or do you contend otherwise?
07:14pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20265 posts
Espouse to your heart's content.
07:17pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14240 posts
Kind of espent right now.
07:23pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6219 posts
The Daily Telegraph published a negative editorial piece about Labor? Shock, horror!
07:51pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14059 posts
Your own self-interest trumps Rudd's self-interest. Touche.


Ahh, I'm not trying running a country though. Besides you assumed a little too much from my statement, anyway, carry on.



The media has an obligation to represent facts as facts, politics is all a matter of opinion, and OP-ED pages of newspapers are the primary area of interest for many readers who enjoy the discourse of political debate.


I also take of the opinion that anything that has the capacity to influence a large stake of a populace, at the same time, has transcended beyond simple word-of-mouth communication. Thus it should be morally bound to present balanced reporting, both in fact and opinion unless it is clearly accepting by said populace to be fictitious in nature. However this opinion is clearly against the free-market idea.

To be fair, the Daily Telegraph is hardly a factual newspaper and is set up, as infi says, an editors opinion bases paper. WTF anyone would read if they have the internet is beyond me though, lol I guess that is Murdoch's problem.
07:59pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20268 posts
Thus it should be morally bound to present balanced reporting, both in fact and opinion unless it is clearly accepting by said populace to be fictitious in nature.


Opinion is not fiction and it is not fact - it is opinion. Now if the government can use taxpayers' money to promote its policies i.e. opinions, surely a private company can use its resources to promote its opinion in the free marketplace of ideas.
08:52pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14241 posts
To be fair, the Daily Telegraph is hardly a factual newspaper and is set up, as infi says, an editors opinion bases paper. WTF anyone would read if they have the internet is beyond me though, lol I guess that is Murdoch's problem.

Its the most widely read newspaper in the country. You and I disregard it, but it has lots of influence in NSW, and you can't win an election without carrying NSW basically. This is a corollary of the intelligentsia argument infi made earlier - it matters because it affects the election, it matters because the gap is only a few percent.
Opinion is not fiction and it is not fact - it is opinion. Now if the government can use taxpayers' money to promote its policies i.e. opinions, surely a private company can use its resources to promote its opinion in the free marketplace of ideas.

Due to this wide influence of the new media, journalism is generally held to a higher standard, see the whole 'ethics' thing you seem to be missing utterly. Is it really so hard to admit that what News Ltd is doing is unethical?

They have every right to, sure, but it is not ethical journalism to use your influence to sway elections to prop up your other commercial interests. How is this even up for debate? Murdoch owns 70% of Australian media and our cable network, pretending he is a regular private punter is completely facile. You entire argument is distinctly smeared with grubby 'he's on our side so stfu' overtones.

You guys are so desperate to win you'll say anything and accept any help - no matter how tainted - to achieve the win. And to be honest its pushing me away from voting with the Coalition.
09:40pm 05/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2106 posts
And to be honest its pushing me away from voting with the Coalition.


PLENTY OF OTHER AUSSIES TO VOTE FOR 'EM INSTEAD, AMIRITE!?

meh. politics. it's going to be a fun few weeks.
09:46pm 05/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3774 posts
Look at the quality of candidate the liberals got for western sydney:

09:52pm 05/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20269 posts
You entire argument is distinctly smeared with grubby 'he's on our side so stfu' overtones.
?

Your entire post sounds filled with anger and sour grapes. I am simply in favour of people being free to do what they want with their own property. Free speech and the free exchange of ideas are central to democracy. And people have a great BS detector so I wouldn't worry to much about the "poor idiot public" - but thanks for the concern.

The left-wing intelligentsia has perfected its shrill squawking of indignation against unfavourable op-ed. Just don't question the impartiality of the ABC!!
09:54pm 05/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23159 posts
^ I think that is the least amount of self-awareness I have ever seen in a forum post.

edit: http://youtu.be/W07iytEr9lY full video of that guy Vash posted.
10:34pm 05/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
353 posts
Wow scandalous, i bet a Labor candidate has never forgotten something..........
10:58pm 05/08/13 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4701 posts
Look at the quality of candidate the liberals got for western sydney:


F*** that is hard to watch. He now looks like a door to door salesman who has just come out of training and is f*****g up his sales pitch.
11:04pm 05/08/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3234 posts
Opinion is not fiction and it is not fact - it is opinion.
Opinion can and quite often is, wrong which would certainly make it fiction. In this political climate there are people claiming that 2+2 = 6 simply because the other side pointed out it actually equals 4 first.

That's part of the problem we have with the media reporting "opinion" since it doesn't have to be backed up by facts and can be completely contrived disingenuously in order to create a false narrative or more simply put, a fiction.
11:28pm 05/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3152 posts
maybe we could sell that fiction?

just sayin', when opportunity knocks...
12:00am 06/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4433 posts
Newspapers have been putting their editorial spin on the merits of political parties since year dot. Last I checked we have freedom of the press in Australia.


There is absolutely nothing free about the press when its is used by commercial interested to manipulate public opinion to serve those interests own agenda. You would have to be completely brain dead not to see this for what it is and that it is a problem. The same s*** goes on in a huge way here in the US where it doesnt matter whats morally right and best for the country its all about how much money you can throw at it to get your own way to feather your own f*****g nest in the future.

This is all about a few trying to dictate and manipulate things to benefit themselves at the expense of the rest of the country.
12:18am 06/08/13 Permalink
t
Brisbane, Queensland
246 posts
That joker DIAZ in the video above is just pathetic.
12:21am 06/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23160 posts
I don't know what is more hilarious, the way he answered every single question so terribly, or how he was instantly called out on his fake door-knocking story.

Oh well, at least he has a solar panel.
12:41am 06/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36176 posts
And to be honest its pushing me away from voting with the Coalition.


after tony, infi is probably labors second greatest hope.
05:00am 06/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4434 posts
after tony, infi is probably labors second greatest hope.


Funny because i have said the same thing before. Who needs deractors when you have supporters like infi.
05:02am 06/08/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4330 posts
07:54am 06/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6594 posts
07:55am 06/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20270 posts
That would be good old fashioned larrikinism if it happened in the ALP.
09:02am 06/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1044 posts
There is something super hilarious about a penis in a glass of wine.

The recession we did not need to have:
http://www.henrythornton.com/article.asp?article_id=6600
09:20am 06/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6595 posts
Thing is it didn't nor has it, guess the liberals are exactly like their redneck republican cousins in the USA.
09:21am 06/08/13 Permalink
taggs
6205 posts
Jesus, nearly 1,200 posts.

QGL record?
11:40am 06/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4435 posts
Look at the quality of candidate the liberals got for western sydney:


Oh nooooo

I had to shut this off and for such a short clip that's really saying something. People are going to vote for this guy... really... really!!! wth. This is one of those things that just makes you bury your head in your hands and sigh in disbelief, who'd vote for this?
11:43am 06/08/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8008 posts
Why is it so hard for politicians to say "no, I don't know all the details about that policy, someone else is responsible for implementing the plan in full and I'm happy to put you in touch with someone more knowledgeable on that particular project"?
12:07pm 06/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23161 posts
Because that would indicate a degree of competency which seems to be completely absent in this guy's case.
12:18pm 06/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
354 posts
If that was a Labor candidate, the screams of "OHHH WHAT A BAD JOURNALIST" "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" would be echoing out.
12:26pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3775 posts
No Peter, just no. They are credible questions. It reminds me of Abbott interviews, just that he's slightly better at deflection. Except for that psycho silent shakey moment.
12:30pm 06/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1748 posts
If that was a Labor candidate, the screams of "OHHH WHAT A BAD JOURNALIST" "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" would be echoing out.


Agree, people get upset pretty easily. Doesnt change the fact that Diaz is s*** on camera and the journo was doing his job. Just seems like a lot of time for channel 10 to spend on it.
12:32pm 06/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23162 posts
No it wouldn't, because it was clearly just a case of a candidate being asked a series of simple questions and not being able to answer them. Bit different to the front page political ad we saw in the Tele.

Cool all caps frothing at the mouth post though.
12:32pm 06/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20271 posts
Don't front a camera if you don't know what you are talking about. It's his own fault.
12:46pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3776 posts
Don't front a camera if you don't know what you are talking about. It's his own fault.


Why is he even a candidate if he doesn't know any details and just spouts slogans and bs?
12:55pm 06/08/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18544 posts
Why is he even a candidate if he doesn't know any details and just spouts slogans and bs?


have you ever listen to joe hockey recently on sunrise?

it is what they do
12:59pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4436 posts
If that was a Labor candidate, the screams of "OHHH WHAT A BAD JOURNALIST" "OMG MURDOCH MEDIA" would be echoing out.


What a crock of s***, pal you are an A grade f***wit seriously.
01:29pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6221 posts
lol, so not even candidates have bothered to read Tony Abbott's Real Solutions booklet of waffle.
Though I don't blame this poor bloke for not reading it, even Joe Hockey looks bored on the cover.

http://i.imgur.com/yAoB6BT.jpg
02:01pm 06/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
355 posts
Agree, people get upset pretty easily. Doesnt change the fact that Diaz is s*** on camera and the journo was doing his job. Just seems like a lot of time for channel 10 to spend on it.


All back benchers are s*** on camera.

Agree, people get upset pretty easily. Doesnt change the fact that Diaz is s*** on camera and the journo was doing his job. Just seems like a lot of time for channel 10 to spend on it.


All back benchers are s*** on camera.
What a crock of s***, pal you are an A grade f***wit seriously.


Not a crock of s*** at all. I'm a grade A f***wit? A bit rich coming from a 'MURRRICAN wannabe.
03:25pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6596 posts
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oZ5IL1I4-W4/UVvcXkwE9SI/AAAAAAAACaQ/DKWHTqmrT9I/s400/AAAA LNP2.jpg


This is what I get when I click on the link for the LNP policies page.
03:39pm 06/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20272 posts
03:44pm 06/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23163 posts
Damn sheerpossumbonertron, you had a real opportunity then to make it look like you were a normal rational person by saying 'yikes! I sure am teh LNP supporter but that guy really sucks! I hope they sack him so our shining unblemished record of competency remains untarnished!'. Instead all we got was a new bunch of froth and mental gymnastics adding yet another jigsaw puzzle piece to your unique posting personality of self-loathing, f*** you got mine, and just plain old loneliness. Pity that :(
03:57pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8010 posts
Why is he even a candidate if he doesn't know any details and just spouts slogans and bs?

This is what most politicians are these days. They're just shills to fill seats with the name of the party on them - it doesn't matter who the person is, so long as they keep the other party out. Ultimately you only have one or two people actually doing the public facing stuff, or at least publicly facing the mass-media.

I think it's silly though that every politician in a party is expected to know the intricate details of every single business operation, or even high-level plan, that the organisation has covering every issue. You have specialists in certain areas - leave them to hash out the details of areas they know. Hell, even that doesn't work at times, when you have idiots like Alston and Conroy trying to sprout crap on IT topics.
03:59pm 06/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1045 posts
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has pledged that he will never head up a minority government, should Australian voters deliver a hung parliament again, in a bid to get voters to make a definite choice for the Liberal and National parties.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/no-deals-to-get-power-abbott-says-20130804-2r7qd.html#ixzz2bANdO9MA

Tony won't head up a minority government, have the national party been told about this? luls.
04:08pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6222 posts
''There's a commitment that I want to give you … There will not be deals done with independents and minor parties under any political movement that I lead,'' he said from the Opposition party room at Parliament House.

''If there is a hung parliament, there won't be a Coalition government led by Tony Abbott.''


No s***, not because of refusing to do any deals but it'll be because in the event of yet another hung parliament the coalition will wise up and dump Abbott for losing his second unlosable election.
04:30pm 06/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
356 posts
Damn sheerpossumbonertron, you had a real opportunity then to make it look like you were a normal rational person by saying 'yikes! I sure am teh LNP supporter but that guy really sucks!


Why would i need to say he sucks? It's VERY OBVIOUS that he does, why would i need to be a captain obvious? I said in my above post "every backbencher sucks @ media" What im more interested in the fact that people have become so hysterical over it despite it not being the first time its happened to a backbencher politician and despite the fact that people from all sides do it, yet because it's a Liberal candidate all of a sudden its a major scandal.

I hope they sack him so our shining unblemished record of competency remains untarnished!'.

Having a brain freeze isn't a sackable offence. Even Kevin Rudd came out today and said it happens to a lot of people and can happen to anyone.

Instead all we got was a new bunch of froth and mental gymnastics


There's no frothing here. I would consider your hysterical "OMG OMG LOOK" type posts regarding the candidate "frothing"

unique posting personality of self-loathing, f*** you got mine, and just plain old loneliness. Pity that :(

lol what? I never self-loath in my posts nor am i lonely. I am willing to be your bestfriend though if you are lonely? /pets fpot on the head. :)
05:57pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Mo
USA
27 posts
lol, so not even candidates have bothered to read Tony Abbott's Real Solutions booklet of waffle.Though I don't blame this poor bloke for not reading it, even Joe Hockey looks bored on the cover.http://i.imgur.com/yAoB6BT.jpg

I like how Malcolm turnbul photobomb them.
09:40pm 06/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10560 posts
hmmmm forget WorkChoices, cheak out Holdens new agreement for its workers:


HOLDEN workers will lose break time, be banned from taking any more than two sick days a year without a medical certificate and get sacked for "inefficiency" under harsh new conditions the company wants them to agree to.

In addition to the loss of a 3 per cent pay rise for each of the next three years - which amounts to a pay cut because it means Holden workers won't keep up with the average 2.5 per cent rate of annual inflation - production line staff will also be subject to regular drug tests, including blood samples if initial saliva and breath tests prove positive.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/the-secrets-of-the-deal-holden-wants-workers-to-sign/story-e6frfm1i-1226692359323#ixzz2bCARBzhA

This was leaked to News LTD and you would have to think puts pressure on Abbott rather than Rudd. Abbott better come out against this and pretty quickly.
11:28pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4437 posts
his is what most politicians are these days. They're just shills to fill seats with the name of the party on them - it doesn't matter who the person is, so long as they keep the other party out. Ultimately you only have one or two people actually doing the public facing stuff, or at least publicly facing the mass-media.

I think it's silly though that every politician in a party is expected to know the intricate details of every single business operation, or even high-level plan, that the organisation has covering every issue. You have specialists in certain areas - leave them to hash out the details of areas they know. Hell, even that doesn't work at times, when you have idiots like Alston and Conroy trying to sprout crap on IT topics.



Of course they should know every bit of the parties policy because they are ultimately throwing their weight/seat behind it. To go in there knowing close to zero is f*****g ridiculous and is about as far from respresenting the people who voted for you as you can get. If back benchers true are just seat warmers then wth are they even doing there? Because they sure as s*** arent representing anyone. Hell it even raises the question if they know so little about the policies are they even in the right party to begin with.
11:36pm 06/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3163 posts
who here hasn't yet enjoyed multiple visits to the Red Cross vulture van for a good suck of your blood on behalf of the board? :)

#shillin #dont forget to take your crackers and cheese on the way out
11:42pm 06/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20274 posts
I can't stand candidates who are too stupid or too lazy to learn their party's policies. They have their hand out for $194,000 p.a. plus perks. Least they can do is a bit of study.
11:45pm 06/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9798 posts
hmmmm forget WorkChoices, cheak out Holdens new agreement for its workers:



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/the-secrets-of-the-deal-holden-wants-workers-to-sign/story-e6frfm1i-1226692359323#ixzz2bCARBzhA

This was leaked to News LTD and you would have to think puts pressure on Abbott rather than Rudd. Abbott better come out against this and pretty quickly.
Oh boy, this is going to end well.
11:48pm 06/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
358 posts
News LTD? OMG MURDOCH MEDIA OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG /froths
01:19am 07/08/13 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3512 posts
Without looking into it anymore I assumed that the stumped candidate (Jaymes Diaz) was running in a very safe Labor seat. If was just a journalist going after a noob that had a campaign without a pulse, it wouldn't look good for the libs, but it's not a big deal. He would never make it into parliament regardless.

But no, he is running in a very marginal Labor seat, won by 0.88% in 2010. Who did the sitting Labor member (Michelle Rowland) beat in 2010... Jaymes Diaz.

This is a guy who should have political experience (having run before), in one of the prime seats the coalition would and should be targeting. And while I think the national ramification of his blunder will be mostly forgotten as the Rudd vs Abbott bloodsport matchup consumes the national debate. It would definitely give me more faith in the voting public if the coalition just kissed their chances in this seat goodbye. After all, it isn't very often that a nationally unknown local candidate gets as much attention as this, so you would expect it to stick in the voters minds.
01:54am 07/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6454 posts
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/the-secrets-of-the-deal-holden-wants-workers-to-sign/story-e6frfm1i-1226692359323#ixzz2bCARBzhA

This was leaked to News LTD and you would have to think puts pressure on Abbott rather than Rudd. Abbott better come out against this and pretty quickly.


Why?

These measures (except for thr rate of pay increases)have been put in place for the people on the floor at my workplace ... ohh about 5 years agoand no problems.
The unionists at Holden need to get with the times or they can kiss Holden goodbye.
07:28am 07/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6597 posts
Medical certificate for 2 days is standard as is drug and alcohol testing.. Why is that news??
08:34am 07/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20275 posts
Keeping interest rates low in a booming economy - tricky; keeping interest rates low in a struggling economy - easy.
08:50am 07/08/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4107 posts
Why?

These measures (except for thr rate of pay increases)have been put in place for the people on the floor at my workplace ... ohh about 5 years agoand no problems.
The unionists at Holden need to get with the times or they can kiss Holden goodbye.



well, holden which get more funding than toyota (which brings more money into the country) and ford combined, and has had some good years of sales is going to pull out, simple, the current date is late 2016, which oddly is when ford closes up
09:05am 07/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1469 posts
Medical certificate for 2 days is standard as is drug and alcohol testing.. Why is that news??


In other news, It's 2014 and Holden commodores stop breaking down as soon as you drive them out of the yard.
10:53am 07/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1046 posts
Medical certificate for 2 days is standard as is drug and alcohol testing.. Why is that news??


From the wording it seems like every sickday you have over 2 days needs a medical certificate.

Like your 3rd sickday of the year, not in a row.
10:59am 07/08/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18546 posts
Yes jim we get it, you are an old labor only voter
11:07am 07/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4438 posts
You're kidding

Could their campaign be any worse, seriously?

They have a leader who can't communicate and regularly looks totally befuddled. He has zero presence of mind when hit with a question he hasn't got a rehearsed answer for, hell I'd place good money on him only having one thought on his mind... where to hide. Then they have party members who can't tell you s*** about their policies in any kind of depth at all. They might as well walk around yelling Straya c***. How do you even belong to and promote any organization and not know what they are about and where they are heading?
12:01pm 07/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1470 posts
You're kiddingCould their campaign be any worse, seriously?They have a leader who can't communicate and regularly looks totally befuddled. He has zero presence of mind when hit with a question he hasn't got a rehearsed answer for, hell I'd place good money on him only having one thought on his mind... where to hide. Then they have party members who can't tell you s*** about their policies in any kind of depth at all. They might as well walk around yelling Straya c***. How do you even belong to and promote any organization and not know what they are about and where they are heading?


I think you need to calm down on the militant approach.

Take a step back and have a look at the last 2 PMs before you start b****ing about Tony. He's not great by any extent of the imagination but have a look at our last 2 servings of 'Leaders' and he comes out smelling like a rose.
12:16pm 07/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1494 posts
Yes jim we get it, you are an old labor only voter


No, I'm Anti-Abbott

I think you need to calm down on the militant approach. Take a step back and have a look at the last 2 PMs before you start b****ing about Tony. He's not great by any extent of the imagination but have a look at our last 2 servings of 'Leaders' and he comes out smelling like a rose.


Well it's obvious that you don't know what a rose smells like.
12:45pm 07/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20276 posts
^This guy thinks the ALP merry go round is good government. HAH
12:54pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14066 posts
Rudd is more like a Rose. Looks good, smells good (lol) and is a bit of a prick.
12:55pm 07/08/13 Permalink
taggs
6206 posts
No, I'm Anti-Abbott


Yep, you're a real bastion of fair-minded impartiality, HJ.
12:58pm 07/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1749 posts
Rudd is more like a Rose. Looks good, smells good (lol) and is a bit of a prick.


Zing!
01:15pm 07/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
359 posts
^This guy thinks the ALP merry go round is good government. HAH


Most people on this forum do and they think the ALP has changed just because Kevin is the leader again. So naive.
01:26pm 07/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1471 posts
Most people on this forum do and they think the ALP has changed just because Kevin is the leader again. So naive.


"but but but faster torrents" - 90% of ALP supporters on this forum.
01:42pm 07/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2107 posts
faster torrents


SIGN ME UP
01:48pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36183 posts
^This guy thinks the ALP merry go round is good government. HAH


im pretty sure no one here thinks that.

there would however be a fair few people that think its still a better government than the genuinely terrifying alternative.
02:01pm 07/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1473 posts
im pretty sure no one here thinks that.

there would however be a fair few people that think its still a better government than the genuinely terrifying alternative.


I for one welcome our new economic overlords.
02:43pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36184 posts
yer, see the problem is i think the australian economy is fine;
i dont care about surplus, i dont care about borrowing money.

i do care about the services that i can take advantage of and the services my family can take advantages of.
03:08pm 07/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1751 posts
The WA economy is tanking hard, and it used to account for around 30% of GDP. Whether or not that has anything to do with Labor is another question. From what I hear its a similar story in Qld.
03:12pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36185 posts
never said it wasnt.
03:13pm 07/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1752 posts
You said the economy is fine, I say its slowing down. What you shouldve said is that the govt is doing a decent job of managing it.

sorry, edited my post to remove unnecessary snark.
03:14pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Vash
3778 posts

Most people on this forum do and they think the ALP has changed just because Kevin is the leader again. So naive.


Actually im pretty sure that despite Rudd's flaws, which we accept, he is still the better option than the republican style crazy that is Tony Abbott.
03:30pm 07/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1495 posts
Yep, you're a real bastion of fair-minded impartiality, HJ.


Indeed I am.

If Turnbul was leading and they had NBN and not fraudband I would be hard pressed not to vote LNP.

The fact that I loath Tony Abbott because of what he has done specifically to me, personally and unjustly, means that I would physically stop any rescuers if he were burning to death in a fire. Abbott, without any doubt and with prejudice, is an oxygen thief.

Most people on this forum do and they think the ALP has changed just because Kevin is the leader again. So naive.


Well, you're mexican we expect that from the a******* of the country.
03:49pm 07/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
360 posts
A man has been charged after a visually impaired woman was followed and indecently assaulted as she made a train journey across Sydney.
The court heard the 25-year-old from Bangladesh arrived in Australia by boat earlier this year and his immigration status is now under investigation.



Another example of a poor desperate man just desperately seeking somewhere safe to live from oppression and violence! But obviously that only extends one way.
04:27pm 07/08/13 Permalink
taggs
6208 posts
Indeed I am.

If Turnbul was leading and they had NBN and not fraudband I would be hard pressed not to vote LNP.


You say that but a quick search of your posting history doesn't bring up any positive posts about the Coalition/LNP or any of their policies nor anything negative about Labor or any of their policies apart from a couple about the failed internet filter. Maybe you could point me to examples where you've done that?

I mean there's nothing wrong with being overtly partisan. God knows enough people in this thread are. But trying to pretend you're not when you very much appear to be is pretty weak, imo.

The fact that I loath Tony Abbott because of what he has done specifically to me, personally and unjustly, means that I would physically stop any rescuers if he were burning to death in a fire.


What did he do?
04:42pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14067 posts
Careful now, deformation on forums has been taken to court before in Australia.
06:37pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14068 posts
I too would seriously consider Liberal if they had the correct NBN version and removed Tony and showed me some more of their policies that don't involve boat people.

EDIT: Well OK maybe that is a bit of a stretch, it would certainly make me stand up and take notice though. Seriously why do they have Tony at the helm???
06:44pm 07/08/13 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
1017 posts
This has to be one of the most creepy photos over :| heard it on the radio and apparently there's no relation.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRC2iYfCcAALEGO.jpg

but +1 for remove Abbot and continue the NBN. I'd consider Liberal.
07:45pm 07/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2108 posts
http://livenews.abc.net.au/Event/Election_campaign_August_7/84306470

a pretty amusing interview/debate with joe hockey and chris bowen.
07:58pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3385 posts
I loved watching Kevin basically ignore every question posed to him tonight on the ABC interview. Tony didn't fair to well either but if you think he's any worse than Kevin, you surely did not watch that interview. They both bombed. Kevin was asked about Julia, to which his response was that she "did a great job". I guess he wasn't thinking that when he challenged the leadership after he publicly announced he would never do it again. :/

I would love to see Joe Hockey in the top job. I think he'd make a great PM.

Double edit: Do you have to change your voting electorate if its one seat over since I moved house?
08:47pm 07/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20281 posts
Double edit: Do you have to change your voting electorate if its one seat over since I moved house?


yes.
08:57pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2414 posts
Double edit: Do you have to change your voting electorate if its one seat over since I moved house?

It depends on if the seat you have moved from/to is a marginal seat or not.
My sister only just moved from a marginal seat to Kevin's seat so I have suggested her not to update it just yet.
09:15pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9808 posts
This has to be one of the most creepy photos over :| heard it on the radio and apparently there's no relation.http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRC2iYfCcAALEGO.jpgbut +1 for remove Abbot and continue the NBN. I'd consider Liberal.
Reminds of this:



Wait, so that ABC interview, Joe Hockey criticises Labor for dumping a heap of policies on the treasury with a few days left before the election, and then says that he'll give Coalition's policies in due course? What. So, Labor is bad for doing it, but we'll take our time and probably do the same. Okay.
09:31pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4439 posts
Most people on this forum do and they think the ALP has changed just because Kevin is the leader again. So naive.


I dont actually recall anyone saying this so i guess its probably just a case of you making s*** up as per usual. Btw this is just a troll account you have set up right? I am only askong because its often hard to tell trolls from the usual lib fans since they both tend to speak a lot of s***.
09:44pm 07/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
361 posts
I dont actually recall anyone saying this so i guess its probably just a case of you making s*** up as per usual. Btw this is just a troll account you have set up right? I am only askong because its often hard to tell trolls from the usual lib fans since they both tend to speak a lot of s***.


They don't need to say it, it's obvious. And no this isn't a "troll" account. And i guess saying lines like "its often hard to tell trolls from the usual lib fans since they both tend to speak a lot of s***." isn't trolling?

Some people are just so drawn in to Labors rhetoric that they can't see all the mistakes and chaos they have created. I fear for Australias futures if Labor gets 4 more years.
10:00pm 07/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20283 posts
It would only be three years ^
10:12pm 07/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4440 posts
They don't need to say it, it's obvious. And no this isn't a "troll" account. And i guess saying lines like "its often hard to tell trolls from the usual lib fans since they both tend to speak a lot of s***." isn't trolling?Some people are just so drawn in to Labors rhetoric that they can't see all the mistakes and chaos they have created. I fear for Australias futures if Labor gets 4 more years.



Lol at least labor has something to say which is more than i can say for that catatonic bobble headed twit the libs have leading them.
10:33pm 07/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
362 posts
Lol at least labor has something to say which is more than i can say for that catatonic bobble headed twit the libs have leading them.


Tony Abbot and the Libs have plenty to say. Die hard Labor supporters such as yourself just don't like to listen so they can parrot lines like "oh they have nothing to say" "oh they have no policies"

Good ol' chestnut
12:42am 08/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1496 posts
You say that but a quick search of your posting history doesn't bring up any positive posts about the Coalition/LNP or any of their policies nor anything negative about Labor or any of their policies apart from a couple about the failed internet filter. Maybe you could point me to examples where you've done that?

I mean there's nothing wrong with being overtly partisan. God knows enough people in this thread are. But trying to pretend you're not when you very much appear to be is pretty weak, imo.


I doubt you'll find anything because I've not been on this forum particularly long.

What did he do?


That is something I will never tell.

Tony Abbot and the Libs have plenty to say. Die hard Labor supporters such as yourself just don't like to listen so they can parrot lines like "oh they have nothing to say" "oh they have no policies"Good ol' chestnut


Well they don't.

Originally in 07 their internet policy was "let the market decide", now its FTTN which was the previous policy of Labor. Labor went to FTTH well before the LNP because Telstra would have too much post node control.

For Australia to be competitive some of the burdens must be borne by Government. Australia still isn't a big enough country population wise for FTTH to be built by private enterprise, there isn't a profit in it. So the Federal Govt must build the infrastructure.

This is what the LNP doesn't get. FTTN is half arsed, if they had their original 07 policy then at least they could afford some of that 70bn black hole.
01:11am 08/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4441 posts
Tony Abbot and the Libs have plenty to say. Die hard Labor supporters such as yourself just don't like to listen so they can parrot lines like "oh they have nothing to say" "oh they have no policies"Good ol' chestnut



Lol
Just curious but what exactly do you do for a living? Id just like to know what part of the community your back ground is in so asto try and understand where you are coming from.

Btw on the chestnut thing its not old if they keep proving it on a daily basis. Aparently their policies wishy washy or just outright absent that not even their senior members can accurately tell you anything about them. So the old chestnut as you incorrectly put is anything but old.
02:31am 08/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
363 posts
Well they don't.

Well they do. Pick a policy area and i'll tell you what their policy on it is, or feel free to go to their website and look for yourself. But like most parroters of "they have no policy" it's more convenient to ignore them so you can continue to parrot that line.

I'm personally looking forward to the Coalitions policy of providing funding to the east-west link in Melbourne which will ease congestion int he city and right around Melbourne. Labor refuses to fund it because ummmmmmm just because.(they won't provide a reason why)

LolJust curious but what exactly do you do for a living? Id just like to know what part of the community your back ground is in so asto try and understand where you are coming from


I was attending University and working a retail job. Key word there - WAS.
02:45am 08/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36189 posts
i hope if the coalition do win, they arent anywhere near as grubby as the lnp.
07:17am 08/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20284 posts
yeah how could LNP endorse craig thompson?
07:47am 08/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14069 posts
The thing that concerns me most about Liberals version of the NBN is what sort effect FTTN has on latency? If it increases it from the ADSL2+ then that is going backward. Other points of concern is that it isn't that much cheaper (Liberals will have cost blowouts too) but is certainly significantly worse specification wise.
In all honesty I'd rather Liberal ditch their NBN plan completely if they are not going to it properly in a reasonable time.

Seriously though, what is the latency like on the Liberals NBN plan? Labor never mentioned it either however their is real world evidence of what it is like now and it is good.
07:56am 08/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9809 posts
They don't need to say it, it's obvious. And no this isn't a "troll" account. And i guess saying lines like "its often hard to tell trolls from the usual lib fans since they both tend to speak a lot of s***." isn't trolling?Some people are just so drawn in to Labors rhetoric that they can't see all the mistakes and chaos they have created. I fear for Australias futures if Labor gets 4 more years.
Question, what would you say if Liberal got in but it went belly up? Would the blame be placed on past running of the government or would Liberal state that they just weren't right for the job?
08:22am 08/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4264 posts
Beattie rebooted
08:25am 08/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14071 posts
Hahah, credit where credit is due this is pretty well done:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4872546-3x4-700x933.jpg
09:10am 08/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6227 posts
lol that is a pretty funny photoshop job, too bad the story that goes with it is so ridiculous.
Apparently though nothing else of substance happened in the last 24 hours that such an article composed of nothing managed to make it to the page one. No wonder newspaper circulations are falling, who'd pay for this garbage?
11:00am 08/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1755 posts
Oh s***, is that for real? I thought it was some poor meme a la HurricaneJim. Looks like Col Allan is a real pro.
11:02am 08/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6228 posts
^ yeah I had the same thought too, but yeah dailytelegraph dot com dot au has it plastered front and centre on the site
11:03am 08/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1756 posts
Christ, it makes our little thread here look sophisticated by comparison.
11:05am 08/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36190 posts
PETER BEATTIE RETURNS TO SAVE US!!!!!!
11:32am 08/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1478 posts
11:52am 08/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1497 posts
Well they do. Pick a policy area and i'll tell you what their policy on it is, or feel free to go to their website and look for yourself. But like most parroters of "they have no policy" it's more convenient to ignore them so you can continue to parrot that line.


I did but you failed to respond.

I'm personally looking forward to the Coalitions policy of providing funding to the east-west link in Melbourne which will ease congestion int he city and right around Melbourne. Labor refuses to fund it because ummmmmmm just because.(they won't provide a reason why)


Parochial porkbarrelling. Relevant to only people who;

1.Live in Melbourne
2.Would actually use it

I find people who cast their vote for such small policies unable to look at a big picture. They are, in essence, closed minded but that is what Victorians are.


Tell me the LNP policy on Dental? The one which isn't the rort by private Denists introduced by Abbott.
11:59am 08/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10568 posts
The Media Whore is back !

All hail Prime Minister Peter Beattie.
I hear Anna Bligh is also being tapped to run.

Who can forget how wonderful the Beattie Government was ?
Remember that Electricity promise ?
Cheaper power prices !

Beattie 2011 - Rudd needs to quit the Party and leave Politics
12:16pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36193 posts
beattie was dreamy
12:30pm 08/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
364 posts
Question, what would you say if Liberal got in but it went belly up? Would the blame be placed on past running of the government or would Liberal state that they just weren't right for the job?


Well i think everyone realizes the Liberals will struggle big time with the economy and budget due to Labors mismanagement. It's not going to be easy paying back 300 billion in debt, rebuilding the economy after the mining boom has ended and plugging the 30 billion budget black hole. The anti-Liberal clan will try to blame it on the Liberals, but most people will know it's because of Labor.

However, if things improved and then went belly up again, and stuff up after stuff up was being made, along with wasteful ridiculous spending, the sole blame would be on the Liberals and i would acknowledge it.

beattie was dreamy


Labor are desperate for new celebrity blood to go along with Kevin Rudd to beef up their Federal stocks. I guess they are hoping no one remembers that he was the head of the Queensland Labor cancer for most of the year.
12:56pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6229 posts
...finally one day Tony Abbott opens the third envelope and it says "Prepare three envelopes"
01:06pm 08/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1047 posts
I for one am glad fox news has finally arrived in Australia in paper format. We need to be more like America if anything.

Wait, both major parties trying to appease the right, Murdoch news sources campaigning for the furtherest rightwing party, looks like we have already arrived. USA USA USA
02:41pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9815 posts
Heh, some boats are better than others?

http://i.imgur.com/9pLGRaWl.jpg
03:11pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6983 posts
The phrase "F*** you, got mine" springs to mind.
03:30pm 08/08/13 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
1019 posts
Hipster politician was a refugee before it was cool.
03:36pm 08/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1479 posts
Heh, some boats are better than others?
The phrase "F*** you, got mine" springs to mind.
Hipster politician was a refugee before it was cool.


http://www.monashweekly.com.au/story/1525017/former-refugee-john-nguyen-stands-his-ground/

Read before judging.

"After nine months in a Malaysian refugee camp, his family was processed by the United Nations and given refugee status by the Fraser government.

But while he comes from a generation of asylum seekers, the Liberal candidate for Chisholm is a supporter of stronger border protection policies.

Mr Nguyen says he is different from contemporary refugees because his family had sought asylum at the first place they arrived, instead of using the country as a launching pad to another.

"A refugee is someone who leaves their homeland for fear of persecution and ... goes to the first country that would accept them as refugees," he said."
04:10pm 08/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23166 posts
Ahh, I am glad that Mr Nguyen from China Vietnam has been kind enough to redefine what a refugee is. It was all getting very confusing and now it is totally clear. Will be renaming Australia bonerland next?

More from that article

"We've got millions of people who are in refugee camps across the world. What do we say to those people who are waiting for years? That we've only got 17,000 places and, by the way, your place ... has just been pushed back because someone else has jumped the queue and they came to Australia by boat?"
Some good old fashioned disinformation just so we can sure he is a Coalition party member.
04:59pm 08/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20285 posts
Only people who can afford to pay people smugglers are able to access Australia's refugee quota now.

Peter Beattie
- employed two Ministers who became convicted criminals (Rose, Nuttall);
- oversaw the ALP systematic vote rorting in Queensland (and don't think it has stopped);
- presided over the mismanagement of Queensland's economy which resulted in it losing its AAA credit rating; and
- despises Kevin Rudd.

Beattie is only back for one reason - to become Prime Minister. Another relic of failed Labor politics which will remind Queenslanders just how poorly skilled Labor politicians really are.
05:18pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6984 posts
"A refugee is someone who leaves their homeland for fear of persecution and ... goes to the first country that would accept them as refugees," he said."
And therein lies the problem: Australia is the one of a few countries in South and South East Asia that offers legal protection for asylum seekers and will give them a fair go. The other choices are Cambodia, East Timor, and The Philippines. Gee, why would asylum seekers pick the one country that hasn't had a recent problem with human rights abuses?
05:19pm 08/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10570 posts
don't forget mary rose who blackmailed beattie with knowledge of his ......
and then theres the heiner affair. both rudd and beattie have connections to the cover up.

05:33pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9817 posts
Only people who can afford to pay people smugglers are able to access Australia's refugee quota now. Peter Beattie - employed two Ministers who became convicted criminals (Rose, Nuttall);- oversaw the ALP systematic vote rorting in Queensland (and don't think it has stopped); - presided over the mismanagement of Queensland's economy which resulted in it losing its AAA credit rating; and- despises Kevin Rudd.Beattie is only back for one reason - to become Prime Minister. Another relic of failed Labor politics which will remind Queenslanders just how poorly skilled Labor politicians really are.
I honestly don't think people will care. With the way Liberal have been going with their recent payrises to already overpaid big wigs and their own scandals, I have a feeling many Queenslanders will simply be voting the other way, especially the public sector who got let off.

That isn't to say that both parties aren't angels, but I guess it is now just a "lesser of two evils" choice, not something I would like to agree with when we are talking about the government of Australia and its states/territories.
07:07pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36195 posts
Beattie is only back for one reason - to become Prime Minister.


lols, infi got the libs memo.

START BROADCAST.
07:14pm 08/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
365 posts
Heh, some boats are better than others?http://i.imgur.com/9pLGRaWl.jpg


But he didn't come by boat. He and his family sought asylum by the CORRECT and proper PROCESS. His family understands as refugees that it's wrong for people to cheat the system and jump the queue.

I bet his family were greatful that Australia took them in and i bet his family didn't go around raping and torturing people while their asylum claims were being processed.

P.S For those of you who frothed over that Liberal party candidate who f***ed up an interview, check out this One Nation candidate who thinks islam is a country

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/one-nation-candidate-stephanie-banister-8216doesn8217t-oppose-islam-as-a-country8217/story-fnho52ip-1226693452708
07:48pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14074 posts
You lib's should be asking why on Earth Tony is still the leader. If Malcom was leader I bet my NBN that Liberal would win with a comfortable margin, similar to the Gillard->Rudd poles jump.
We know that, they know that. So why are they keeping Tony at the Helm, who backs him so much that he is still leader? Would Malcom do what those people want or not? Is that the reason he isn't leader?

07:49pm 08/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10571 posts
so you want a Coalition Government that embraces Labor Policies ?
Why don't you just admit it...
Turnbull would be a better leader for Labor because the Labor Party has no real leaders it is a pile of steaming excrement and you wish you could vote for someone else.

Now they've got Beattie in, its gonna be another 3 years of Labor backstabbing if Rudd wins because Beattie is not there for the glory of kevin Rudd. Seeing them today reminded me of Gillard and Rudd when they teamed up, both despised one and other but they did it to unite Labor and look how that turned out.

The only way to punish Labor so that they 'get it' is to vote Coalition.
That is the only message they will ever listen to.
08:01pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14244 posts
so you want a Coalition Government that embraces Labor Policies ?

If the policies are any good, well, yes? I don't want a Coalition too partisan to think anyone else has good ideas.
The only way to punish Labor so that they 'get it' is to vote Coalition.
That is the only message they will ever listen to.

What if I don't want to 'punish' anyone, and instead just pick the Party to vote for based on policy?
But he didn't come by boat. He and his family sought asylum by the CORRECT and proper PROCESS. His family understands as refugees that it's wrong for people to cheat the system and jump the queue.

Nobody has yet explained what this mythical queue is, do you get a number like at the butcher's? Or why refugees are breaking the rules by entering our borders to seek asylum when our treaties, laws and law enforcement policies say the opposite.
09:20pm 08/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20286 posts
Nobody has yet explained what this mythical queue is, do you get a number like at the butcher's? Or why refugees are breaking the rules by entering our borders to seek asylum when our treaties, laws and law enforcement policies say the opposite.


Australia has a total immigration quota and a refugee quota. If people come by boat unannounced then they get processed before people waiting overseas to be considered because they are literally on our doorstep. People who pay people smugglers get priority attention.
09:25pm 08/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23168 posts
infi is just outright lying. That's not how it works. For a better idea on how it works, read this.

There is literally reams and reams of information out there debunking the queue jumping myth. You can start by typing are refugees queue jumpers in google. Of course, you could also just listen to what the government says, but I kinda like to think for myself occasionally.
09:43pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
14577 posts
At least infi hasn't referred to them as illegals for a while, so maybe something is getting through.
10:19pm 08/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20287 posts
Right from fpot's own quoted source is the exact point I was making:

Australia’s refugee program has two components – the onshore component, for people who apply for refugee status after arriving in Australia; and the offshore component, under which Australia resettles recognised refugees and other people in need of protection and assistance. The onshore and offshore components are numerically linked, which means that every time an onshore applicant is granted a Protection Visa, a place is deducted from the offshore program.


Refugees who pay a people smuggler and arrive on our doorstep

a) commence receiving protection including housing and health benefits paid for by the Australian taxpayer the minute they arrive (regardless of their status as a refugee, because it has not yet been determined), whereas refugees in overseas camps do not benefit from these protections; and

b) detract from the Australian quota for overseas refugee resettlement.

And yes refugees who enter Australia via a people smuggler are defined as an illegal entrant under the Migration Act.
11:03pm 08/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23169 posts
Congrats dude. You've taken a single paragraph from that article and quoted it completely out of context so you can just go on believing your fictitious little world a little bit longer. I'll quote the paragraphs directly over and above what you quoted but for people who really care about what the truth is you should probably read the whole thing.

The myth that asylum seekers take places away from refugees who are resettled from overseas does have some basis in truth. However, this is not because asylum seekers are trying to rort the system or “jump the queue” – they have a right to seek asylum and Australia has a legal and moral obligation to process their claims. Rather, it is the direct result of Australian Government policy.

Australia’s refugee program has two components – the onshore component, for people who apply for refugee status after arriving in Australia; and the offshore component, under which Australia resettles recognised refugees and other people in need of protection and assistance. The onshore and offshore components are numerically linked, which means that every time an onshore applicant is granted a Protection Visa, a place is deducted from the offshore program.

The linking policy blurs the distinction between Australia’s legal obligations as a signatory to the Refugee Convention (addressed through the onshore component) and our voluntary contribution to the sharing of international responsibility for refugees for whom no other durable solution is available (addressed through the offshore component). The perception that there is a “queue” which onshore applicants are trying to evade is actually created by a policy choice which could easily be changed. No other country in the world links its onshore and offshore programs in this way.


Here is the bit you are referring to in the Migration Act with the important bit bolded

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 5AA

Meaning of unauthorised maritime arrival
(1) For the purposes of this Act, a person is an unauthorised maritime arrival if:

(a) the person entered Australia by sea:

(i) at an excised offshore place at any time after the excision time for that place; or

(ii) at any other place at any time on or after the commencement of this section; and

(b) the person became an unlawful non-citizen because of that entry; and

(c) the person is not an excluded maritime arrival.
A person seeking asylum is not an unlawful non-citizen. A person granted refugee status (which 90.5% if boat arrivals do) is also not an unlawful non-citizen. I hope that helps.
11:21pm 08/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4444 posts
Man all this talk about boats is making me sea sick. :-(
03:54am 09/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6457 posts
^ Yeah that's from the lezzy cafe at nundah
08:13am 09/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4445 posts
Lezzy cafe? I just spent 12 months living in Nundah and wouldnt know what or where that is.
08:33am 09/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6458 posts
It's called the Slightly Twisted Cafe across the road from the Cofee Club in the old busted arse part of Nundah Village. Run by some really nice Lezzys.
08:50am 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1480 posts
fpot you are f*****g stupid. You literally just quoted something that 1000% supports the claim you're trying to discredit.
09:37am 09/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4447 posts
It's called the Slightly Twisted Cafe across the road from the Cofee Club in the old busted arse part of Nundah Village. Run by some really nice Lezzys.


ahhh yep yep know the spot
11:04am 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10572 posts
http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/COURIER_thumb.jpg


The Weekend Australian, June 26, 2010:

PETER Beattie: But like the overwhelming majority of caucus, I knew there was a fatal political flaw. It was poor political judgment on key issues. For me, Rudd’s lack of political judgment was demonstrated in the introduction of the mining tax without proper consultation, the backflip on timing of the emissions trading scheme and the bungled home insulation program. His failure to listen to a broad range of advice, particularly on issues in which he had little expertise, also demonstrated poor judgment…

The Weekend Australian, July 31, 2010:

BEATTIE: At the moment, the party faithful know they are being betrayed ... There can also be no greater act of treachery ... . Media reports are now suggesting Rudd himself is possibly the source of the leak…

Paul Howes, Confessions of a Faceless Man, page 20:

(PETER Beattie) told me plainly that “that bloke stuffed up the Goss government, stuffed up his own government and during the election did his best to stuff up Julia’s government. No one should ever forget the damage that he has done.

Its just going to be Gillard Vs Rudd all over again.
How stupid do they think we are >?
Game of Media Whores.
11:37am 09/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23170 posts
I was addressing the issue of asylum seekers being accused of being queue jumpers. There is no proper way to seek asylum - there are two ways by either registering with the United Nations and staying in the camp or making the trip directly to Australia by boat or plane. It's only the broken way that Australia's system is set up that allows these people to be called queue jumpers (every other country is different) which the government has capitalised on and used as a tool to generate more refugee hate - the exact hate that we are seeing in this thread.
12:10pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
366 posts
Parroters/frothers of left wing Green/Refugee action group lines such as "it isn't illegal to seek asylum" are intentionally trying to divert and deceived people.

While of course it's not illegal to seek asylum, it is HOWEVER illegal to enter Australia without a visa. They use the line above to try to pretend that you are claiming it's illegal to seek asylum when that is not the case.

Facts -

1. It is illegal to enter Australia without a visa, it doesn't matter for what purpose. It's still illegal as set out by Section 42 of the Migration act.

2. The UN refugee convention acknowledges that entry without a visa is illegal, but what the convention says is that they should NOT be prosecuted/penalities should not be imposed on them

the Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened ...enter or are present in their territory without authorisation, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence


It is illegal for a non-citizen to enter Australia without a valid visa. If a person enters Australia illegally, claims asylum and is found to be a refugee, discretion will be exercised and they will not be charged with illegally entering Australia.

3. There is a queue as infi has pointed out. If people come by boat unannounced then they get processed before people waiting overseas to be considered because they are literally on our doorstep. The 7:30 report has interviewed many legitimate refugees who are going through the proper process of claiming asylum but have been stranded for years because queue jumpers are taking their spot.

4. The UNHCR has offices and camps all around the world that are much easier to get to than Christmas Island, and will provide documentation and assessment of refugee status assessments. From people assessed by the UNHCR as refugees in need of resettlement countries like Australia then offer a place in the immigration programme - this is the proper channel.

All we see from Fpot and co is parrot line after parrot line, with fallacy after fallacy. In typical Fpot style, the next response will be a whole bunch of insults with emotive outbursts of anger.

5. You'll notice If you encounter any supporter of illegal entrants, they will parrot the exact same lines and take the exact same process of argument. It's like they have a handbook on how to defend illegal entrants with platitudes, buzz words and slogans. First they will parrot "it's not illegal to seek asyulum" and by the time you demolish them with facts citing the UN etc, the discussion usually ends in the typical "RACIST" "YOU ARE STUPID" because they have nothing to come back with. It's the same process every....single...time. You can actually play "illegal entrant bingo" because it never fails.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/733787_10151653859729545_594243502_n.jpg



Typical Left Wing nutters. They are basically saying "We think people can't make up their own minds so ebcause these newspapers aren't supporting Labor, we deem them biased and won't be offering them"

No one had any problem when newspapers were supporting Rudd in 2007, apparently that wasn't "biased"

Pathetic.
12:45pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1758 posts
If you embrace the libertarian media model then its perfectly ok for the market to decide what news it wants to serve up. The same principle that says its ok for Murdoch to express his bias makes it kosha for the cafe not to make it available.
01:09pm 09/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2109 posts
Typical Left Wing nutters. They are basically saying "We think people can't make up their own minds so ebcause these newspapers aren't supporting Labor, we deem them biased and won't be offering them"

No one had any problem when newspapers were supporting Rudd in 2007, apparently that wasn't "biased"

Pathetic.


maybe they are exercising their right to sell what they want in their business.. being vocal about it isn't any different to the newspapers they disagree with.
01:23pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14078 posts
Why is Tony the leader of the Liberals?
01:24pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6231 posts
Yeah, seems a little privileged but if they're silly enough to alienate a portion of their customers then more power to them.
Most cafes would be delighted to have enough business to be able to piss off any that happened to have right wing leanings.

Less photos of the sign and more photos of the purported hot lesbians.
01:32pm 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1482 posts
Yeah, seems a little privileged but if they're silly enough to alienate a portion of their customers then more power to them.


Stupid move, I wouldn't return if I saw nonsense like that.
01:39pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
367 posts
Why is Tony the leader of the Liberals?


You've already asked this before and already got an answer.

He is the leader of the Liberals because the Liberals elected him as Leader and they think he is the most capable person to leader their party at the moment. He is a strong leader and is on the verge of delivering government to the Liberals.

You may live in this fantasy world where Tony Abbot is some incompetent person who shouldn't be leader just because of the NBN policy(that his party created, not him) but in the real world he is the best person for the job and will be a great prime minister.
02:53pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14079 posts
I hear that Peter, yet I hear plenty of talk on the street that people are not voting for Liberal because of Tony.
02:55pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1759 posts
Stupid move, I wouldn't return if I saw nonsense like that.


You could say the same about the paper itself.
02:59pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
892 posts
He is the leader of the Liberals because the Liberals elected him as Leader and they think he is the most capable person to leader their party at the moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia_leadership_spill,_2009#Results

In a ballot between Hockey and Abbot for the leadership (at that time), Hockey would win. This can be seen by looking at the first round figures - Turnbull's supporters (he's a Liberal wet) would be expected to support Hockey (a moderate in Liberal party terms) over Abbot (a right wing conservative). Abbot would not have expected to pick up more than one or two of Turnbull's supporters.

However, in a ballot between Abbot and Turnbull, Abbot would easily win as once the spill was called a new leader had to be found, especially considering the low first round support for Turnbull.

The non-official but widely accepted story is that Abbot directed some of his supporters to vote for Turnbull in the first round, eliminating Hockey and ensuring Abbot wins the second round. At best, this is 'cunning'.

In any normal election cycle, Abbot would not have survived as opposition leader. He is irreparably damaged by his own statements. However, you don't replace a leader who is so far ahead, even if he is personally unpopular.

If Rudd had replaced Gillard last year, Abbot would have been replaced by Turnbull or Hockey, but it was far too late to change opposition leaders in response to the last second change to Rudd. The Liberal party has to make the best of it, even if Hockey and Turnbull can't disguise their absolute loathing for Abbot.
03:05pm 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1483 posts
You could say the same about the paper itself.


I agree.

I hear that Peter, yet I hear plenty of talk on the street that people are not voting for Liberal because of Tony.


Personally don't really like the guy, I'll still be voting Liberal though. I like their policies.
03:08pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9828 posts
You may live in this fantasy world where Tony Abbot is some incompetent person who shouldn't be leader just because of the NBN policy(that his party created, not him) but in the real world he is the best person for the job and will be a great prime minister.
Hahahaha, is this a joke post? I have a feeling it isn't just the NBN policies that people are upset about. Yes we here on this forum have expressed high outrage at the Liberal's excuse of an NBN, but there are definitely other policies that the Liberal party are hoping to push in that are even worse.

03:13pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4448 posts
Stupid move, I wouldn't return if I saw nonsense like that.


But no doubt you'd have no issue buying a copy of the Daily telegraph. So it's perfectly fine for some but not for others just as long as it's in keeping with what you want.
03:19pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4449 posts
Hahahaha, is this a joke post? I have a feeling it isn't just the NBN policies that people are upset about. Yes we here on this forum have expressed high outrage at the Liberal's excuse of an NBN, but there are definitely other policies that the Liberal party are hoping to push in that are even worse.



f***, god help Australia if this f*****g tool gets the top job. Man its depressing and painful as f*** watching him trip all over himself, what a complete and utter f*****g clown.
03:27pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
893 posts
If you embrace the libertarian media model then its perfectly ok for the market to decide what news it wants to serve up. The same principle that says its ok for Murdoch to express his bias makes it kosha for the cafe not to make it available.


It isn't only a libertarian / free market model that would allow the cafe to refuse to provide a particular newspaper. There is no hypocrisy in seeking to prevent the sort of media influence Murdoch has while encouraging freedom of expression at an individual level.

You know, if that was what you were trying to imply.
03:38pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14245 posts
Personally don't really like the guy, I'll still be voting Liberal though. I like their policies.

Which ones in particular? Surely not their NBN one.
03:48pm 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1484 posts
Which ones in particular? Surely not their NBN one.

Download speeds of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by the end of 2016 and 50 to 100 megabits per second by 2019.

· The rollout of the NBN under the Coalition will be complete by the end of 2019.
· Regions with substandard internet services will receive priority rollout.
· Basic broadband plans will always be more affordable under the Coalition than under Labor. Projections show that prices will be $24 cheaper a month by 2021 than under Labor’s NBN projected prices.
· The Coalition’s NBN will cost tens of billions less to complete than Labor’s NBN.

The Coalition’s plan will ensure the National Broadband Network is rolled out faster and cheaper, resulting in lower prices for consumers.


I don't see what the big deal is?
03:56pm 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10573 posts
So the lezbo café supports labors treatment of Refugees, or shifting single mums onto the dole ?

The trouble with introducing politics to your Business is no Party is innocent, they all have policies that hurt and alienate people.

Where there is Government, there is Tyranny.
03:59pm 09/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20288 posts
Sure they are free to not stock News Corp papers, but that's all anyone reads.
04:02pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1760 posts
You know, if that was what you were trying to imply.


I'm just trying to apply some sort of logical consistency to the statements. Probably not the best course of action.

Sure they are free to not stock News Corp papers, but that's all anyone reads.


No Murdoch dailies here.
04:04pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
894 posts
So the lezbo café supports labors treatment of Refugees, or shifting single mums onto the dole ?

The trouble with introducing politics to your Business is no Party is innocent, they all have policies that hurt and alienate people.

Where there is Government, there is Tyranny.

Excluding an entirely biased news source does not equate to endorsement of a particular political party; only the rejection of that news source's influence. If you read the note they provided they are clear about the reasons for their decision.
04:05pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14246 posts
#1 - its unfair to taxpayers who get NBN lite when other taxpayers get the real deal. Do I get a rebate if I have to pay for fibre when paveway did not? Are not all tax dollars equal? IMO its too late now.

#2 - 25 to 100 is a huge spread and 100 seems to be the limit, so we'll need to ditch the copper in 15 years when gigabit is the new baseline? Seems shortsighted.
I am not confident that many people will get able to achieve 100 meg but if you have a sauce I'm open to ideas. Considering that ADSL gives me 5 meg while others have 20 this seems variable and again luck of the draw. Just give everyone the same utility, its already being built?

#3 - the cost argument to me is moot. The NBN pays for itself and is inevitably sold off. Why shortchange ourselves on it now?

#4 - 'always cheaper under the Coalition' stinks of rhetoric, I like facts. They also said interest rates would always be lower.
04:05pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1761 posts
#5 - It doesnt address the abysmal upload speeds provided by current ADSL offerings, which are the seriously holding back small/medium business right now.
04:08pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Malthius
Brisbane, Queensland
895 posts
I'm just trying to apply some sort of logical consistency to the statements. Probably not the best course of action.

I agree, a purely libertarian viewpoint would consider their actions hypocritical (or at least inconsistent). I doubt that the owners of that particular cafe are libertarians. I'd put my bet on social and economic progressives who believe that regulatory action is desirable to correct market failures.

For a market to work all the participants need accurate information regarding the state of the market so they can make rational decisions. If some hyper-wealthy citizen of a foreign country is able to distort the information in the marketplace for political policy selection, the owners of that cafe might think that government regulation to remove the market distorting power would actually make the market more 'free'.
04:15pm 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1486 posts
#1 - its unfair to taxpayers who get NBN lite when other taxpayers get the real deal. Do I get a rebate if I have to pay for fibre when paveway did not? Are not all tax dollars equal?#2 - 25 to 100 is a huge spread and 100 seems to be the limit, so we'll need to ditch the copper in 15 years when gigabit is the new baseline? Seems shortsighted. I am not confident that many people will get able to achieve 100 meg but if you have a sauce I'm open to ideas. Considering that ADSL gives me 5 meg while others have 20 this seems variable and again luck of the draw. Just give everyone the same utility, its already being built?#3 - the cost argument to me is moot. The NBN pays for itself and is inevitably sold off. Why shortchange ourselves on it now?#4 - 'always cheaper under the Coalition' stinks of rhetoric, I like facts. They also said interest rates would always be lower.


The whole NBN is moot anyway.

"After building an infrastructure of the network, in July 2012, Google announced pricing for Google Fiber. The service will offer three options. These include a free broadband internet option, a 1 Gbps internet option for $70 per month and a version that includes television service for $120 per month."
04:24pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1764 posts
No arkter. The fact that they're using US spelling for fiber is a giveaway. They're talking about another country.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/07/google-australias-engineering-director-explains-why-we-dont-need-fiber/

the owners of that cafe might think that government regulation to remove the market distorting power would actually make the market more 'free'.


I like that idea, but I have no idea how you would implement it without putting a scary amount of power into the hands of government.
04:27pm 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10574 posts
I think too many ppl here are in love with The NBN and are letting it cloud their judgement on the overall policies of each major party.
04:34pm 09/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1487 posts
No arkter. The fact that they're using US spelling for fiber is a giveaway.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/07/google-australias-engineering-director-explains-why-we-dont-need-fiber/


That quote is about google fiber in the U.S. - I'm just saying, it appears that our NBN is already outdated tech wise anyway.

That article is an interesting read though, I'll have to do some more research on the proposed NBN differences.

Would anyone care to point out the major tech differences between Liberal and Labour NBN? If I recall it's fibre to node instead of fibre to door or something?
04:45pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6986 posts
I'm just saying, it appears that our NBN is already outdated tech wise anyway.
The NBN can do 1Gbps. They simply haven't made that speed configuration available to customers yet. They plan to start offering it in December. It's basically just a software setting they have to change.
05:18pm 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10575 posts
How do you rank your most important policies ?
For me:
1. The Economy
2. getting rid of the Carbon Tax and Mining Tax
3. regulating Fracking and letting Farmers decide on access to their land.
4. Legalising Gay Marriage
5. NBN prefer FTTN for the moment
6. Refugee problem

05:36pm 09/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23174 posts
1. It is illegal to enter Australia without a visa, it doesn't matter for what purpose. It's still illegal as set out by Section 42 of the Migration act.
No it's not, as per the bit I quoted.

2. The UN refugee convention acknowledges that entry without a visa is illegal, but what the convention says is that they should NOT be prosecuted/penalities should not be imposed on them
The UN refugee convention doesn't define what is legal and illegal in our country, the migration act does and as I have already pointed out people seeking asylum are not entering the country illegally. If people arrived by boat not seeking asylum and instead tried to find work straight away that would be illegal. It's a real simple distinction, how can you not understand it?

If you bothered to read stuff you'd see that your whole post is wrong. I find it kind of weird that your rebuttals are pretty much paraphrased versions of my own posts with the correct information swapped with incorrect information. Imitation is the highest form of flattery you know? The only person frothing away is you buddy (well cainer too but he has fled back to reddit, perhaps you should do the same).
05:37pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36199 posts
I think too many ppl here are in love with The NBN and are letting it cloud their judgement on the overall policies of each major party.


nbn is pretty important bro:

for me:

1. Not letting some crazy guy be pm of my country
2. FTTP
3. Carbon Tax and Mining tax
4. Non implementation of coalition policies
7. Economy (we're fine)
50. Gay marriage
139. Boat people solution


05:59pm 09/08/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18549 posts
Want to get nasty with tabbott's daughters, for reals
06:07pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2415 posts
3. regulating Fracking and letting Farmers decide on access to their land.

Hate to break it to you facey but a) fracing is already fairly highly regulated and b) policy's won't be much better as far as access goes under the LNP.
My olds just had 2 of the biggest power poles in the southern hemisphere install on prime agricultural land and nothing could be done about it and received less than market value for it and this was commisioned my state government.


1. Not letting some crazy guy be pm of my country


I am am guessing you are voting for Christine Milne because your choices are all sorts of crazy.
Your options are Tony Abbott, Kevin Rudd, Clive Palmer, Bob Katter which only leave Christine Milne but you can vote for her because she is crazy but she is not a guy.
06:14pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36200 posts
Want to get nasty with tabbott's daughters, for reals


smash that s*** bro
06:15pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2416 posts
Want to get nasty with tabbott's daughters, for reals

Rudd's daughter is pretty hot also.
06:16pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36201 posts
I am am guessing you are voting for Christine Milne because your choices are all sorts of crazy.
Your options are Tony Abbott, Kevin Rudd, Clive Palmer, Bob Katter which only leave Christine Milne but you can vote for her because she is crazy but she is not a guy.


haha, good point.

of all those crazy dudes, i rate the kruddler as least crazy (obviously just behind bob katter), the others broke my crazy scale.
06:27pm 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10576 posts
yeah I know the major partys don't care about fracking but its very important to people who live in these areas. Pretty important if your eating food grown from those areas or your drinking water comes from the area.
I think Katters Party is the only one with a serious policy on it.
06:35pm 09/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20289 posts
The UN refugee convention doesn't define what is legal and illegal in our country, the migration act does and as I have already pointed out people seeking asylum are not entering the country illegally.


Politifact discussed the issue in detail: http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/03/scott-morrison/asylum-seekers-arriving-boat-are-illegally-enterin/

Mary Crock, a law professor at Sydney University and a specialist in immigration and refugee law, told PolitiFact: "The bottom line in the refugee convention is that it prohibits signatory states from imposing penalties on refugees for their illegal entry to the country. Refugees can’t be called illegal because the presumption has to be that they could be legitimate refugees."

The problem is with language and it’s touched on in Crock’s own reference to "illegal entry". Section 14 of Australia’s Migration Act specifies that "a non-citizen in the migration zone who is not a lawful non-citizen [ie, a non-citizen holding an appropriate visa] is an unlawful non-citizen".

Section 228B spells out that "a non-citizen seeking protection or asylum" but without a valid visa has "no lawful right to come to Australia", regardless of Australia’s protection obligations. Prior to 1994, an unlawful non-citizen was known in law as an "illegal entrant".

And article 31 of the UN convention says a refugee who enters a country without authorisation does so illegally, although nations that have signed the convention "shall not impose penalties on account of their illegal entry or presence".


it is not illegal to seek asylum but nonetheless it is considered an illegal entry into the country, albeit without penalty.

Furthemore, at international law, a conventinon signed by a country is not binding on the country unless it has been ratified and enabled by domestic legislation. Such provisions as immigration quotas override the Convention's obligations for universal acceptance of asylum seekers and provide a strict classification of illegal entrants vs. overseas asylum applicants.

REGARDLESS of all of this legal gobbledeg*** which I can understand fpot finds confusing, boat people are right now entering Australia by paying organised criminals, they are accessing housing, food, and health care immediately while refugees seeking asylum from overseas faces delays as the refugee quota is soaked up. Boat people are not in URGENT LIFE THREATENING danger, they are island hopping and shopping for their country of choice.

The boat people clad in brand name clothing, with their nice shiny luggage, burning their identification documentation, threatening to sink their ships if they are not taken to Australia, rioting and burning down our detention centres and raping other detainees are opportunists seeking to exploit a weak system, for purely economic purposes.

I don't mind immigration, I like it, we need plenty of more workers in Australia. Those people paying people smugglers can instead pay an authorised immigration agent, fill out the paperwork and wait their turn.
06:49pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
368 posts
Yep, Fpot is wrong again. But of course he won't accept it, even with an organization like political backing up my post. Infact, i hadn't seen this politifact ruling till infi just posted and i was shocked to see that their ruling nearly matches my post word for word.

Just take it on the chin Fpot, it's illegal to enter Australia without a visa.

The boat people clad in brand name clothing, with their nice shiny luggage, burning their identification documentation, threatening to sink their ships if they are not taken to Australia, rioting and burning down our detention centres and raping other detainees are opportunists seeking to exploit a weak system, for purely economic purposes.


The sooner die hard illegal supporters accept this, the sooner we can move on.
06:53pm 09/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23175 posts
So we agree, it is not illegal to seek asylum. I'll concede that the initial entry is illegal but my god only if you are being excessively pedantic about it. It's kind of s***** that both parties would use this rather pedantic interpretation of the law to drum up fear about refugees but 'straya c*** I guess.

The boat people clad in brand name clothing, with their nice shiny luggage, burning their identification documentation, threatening to sink their ships if they are not taken to Australia, rioting and burning down our detention centres and raping other detainees are opportunists seeking to exploit a weak system, for purely economic purposes.
If this is true, why are 90.5% of boat arrivals found to be genuine refugees? Also, how much do you think brand name clothing costs in Afghanistan? Do you think they head down to their local department store and pay $100 for it like us, or do you think it is more likely that they pay the appropriate amount for what a piece of cheap fabric and slave labour should be? Lock up a bunch of pure white Australians without charge, do you think they would riot? etc etc.
07:05pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9830 posts
That quote is about Google fiber in the U.S. - I'm just saying, it appears that our NBN is already outdated tech wise anyway.That article is an interesting read though, I'll have to do some more research on the proposed NBN differences. Would anyone care to point out the major tech differences between Liberal and Labour NBN? If I recall it's fibre to node instead of fibre to door or something?
Uhh, the NBN just stands for National Broadband Network dude, it doesn't actually mean a limit of 1GB per/s. Fibre is the infrastructure that they are laying down, and has reached 2GB in Japan just recently thanks to Sony's investment, and what Google are using is the exact same.

The problem with the Liberal's plan is that they will utilise the copper network until it dies out, thus making it more expensive because you will eventually have to replace said copper with fibre. Why not just lie down the entire grid with fibre and save some cash/get it over with quicker? The point of this entire national network is to ensure Australia is equipped with a future-proof service. Relying on old tech to get the last bit of data to the home is not pushing the infrastructure forward, but instead slowing the progress down.

Anyway, this was all discussed ages ago. I remember an article on ABC or something that summed everything up nicely, see if I can Google for it.

Also, my top five policies by importance:

1. NBN - I live and work on the Internet, being able to do it more efficiently is my number one goal. It is how I earn to live.
2. Budget/Economy. We are pretty good overall in the world, but there are some issues need fixing
3. Gay marriage equality. We are all human, just let everyone marry who they want. Church has no place anymore.
4. Uni and school support
5. Public transport. Seriously, waiting for a bus can be considering russian roulette because you never know if one will come or not.
07:10pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1768 posts
Public transport is mostly a state government issue.
07:20pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9831 posts
Public transport is mostly a state government issue.

You're right there, my bad. Couldn't actually think of a fifth so went with something that recently annoyed me :S Seriously, buses are stupid.
07:55pm 09/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1769 posts
Amen brother!
08:03pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Hybr|d
Brisbane, Queensland
918 posts
Also, how much do you think brand name clothing costs in Afghanistan? Do you think they head down to their local department store and pay $100 for it like us, or do you think it is more likely that they pay the appropriate amount for what a piece of cheap fabric and slave labour should be? Lock up a bunch of pure white Australians without charge, do you think they would riot? etc etc.


I do enjoy when people pose the whole, "well it's so cheap to produce this merchandise in their country so everybody wears , it doesn't distinguish people like in Australia." However, in reality, those who are actually poor, struggling and in all honesty are likely legitimate refugee candidates have what you described, fabric with cheap labour...absent of any endorsement, whether it be Nike ticks or Ralph Lauren logos.

08:10pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
946 posts
Er isn't public transport a local government issue?
08:21pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
947 posts
Er infi the brand name clothing I think could be pronounced "knockoff". They just came from Indonesia.

also personal wealth is no measure of political oppression.
08:33pm 09/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20290 posts
ok, let's just work off the:
- paying criminals to be smuggled through numerous countries;
- threatening to sink their boats if they don't get taken to an Australian processing centre;
- destruction of Commonwealth property in the country they are seeking asylum;
- rioting;
- rape of detainees.

Are these the type of people we want in Australian society? Why do refugees seek refunds from people smugglers if they get taken to Nauru or Manus Island? They are safe from persecution.
08:40pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2418 posts
Hey if border protection is your number 1 priority then maybe your could vote for this chick.

08:49pm 09/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20291 posts
No thanks, One Nation are racists.
08:53pm 09/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6459 posts
09:07pm 09/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14080 posts
Infi must be in a bit of a bind. Labor's strategy on people arriving Boat seems to be having the intended effect, as people are demanding their money back from smugglers and presumably looking for alternatives to arriving by boat. But it is Labor's policy. O well.

09:49pm 09/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
948 posts
ok, let's just work off the:
- paying criminals to be smuggled through numerous countries;
- threatening to sink their boats if they don't get taken to an Australian processing centre;
- destruction of Commonwealth property in the country they are seeking asylum;
- rioting;
- rape of detainees.

Are these the type of people we want in Australian society? Why do refugees seek refunds from people smugglers if they get taken to Nauru or Manus Island? They are safe from persecution.


Yes all detainees are mega wealthy economic migrants who riot and rape when they don't get what they want.

Dude. tha f***.
09:58pm 09/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20292 posts
Toll don't forget that before Kevin scrapped Howard policy in 2007, there were no boat people. So if you want to give Rudd credit for reducing the number of boat people his own policies created, well that's just retarded.
10:44pm 09/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10577 posts
10:50pm 09/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23177 posts
Yes all detainees are mega wealthy economic migrants who riot and rape when they don't get what they want.

Dude. tha f***.
Well savagery is a part of middle-eastern culture, and savage treatment is all they understand. I am not racist btw.
11:19pm 09/08/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10099 posts
Its just going to be Gillard Vs Rudd all over again.
How stupid do they think we are >?
Game of Media Whores.



you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar...


are you really trying to improve the situation... or do you have another agenda?
12:51am 10/08/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1431 posts
The sooner die hard illegal supporters accept this, the sooner we can move on.
Does being a total wanker come naturally or do you practice hard.

For a kid you sure have a lot of growing the f*** up.
12:54am 10/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10579 posts
An Agenda ?
yeah to get rid of Labor.
The best thing that could happen to Labor is a huge hiding.
You want a better Government ?
You've got to punish the bad ones.

You people complain about Abbott but the reason Abbott will be PM is because Labor were such pathetic rabble in Government. Make sure Labor learns a lesson.

I cant wait for Election night.
01:28am 10/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
369 posts
So we agree, it is not illegal to seek asylum.


finally, we are getting somewhere.

I'll concede that the initial entry is illegal


FINALLY! PRAISE THE LORD.

Yes all detainees are mega wealthy economic migrants who riot and rape when they don't get what they want.Dude. tha f***.


They pay $20,000 to people smugglers and riot and rape while being held for illegally coming here, they certainly arent "poor and desperate people" that's for sure.

Does being a total wanker come naturally or do you practice hard.For a kid you sure have a lot of growing the f*** up.


Ah yes, the typical "Some Fat Bastard" chime in of insults because his dear beloved Labor party is being criticized.
02:20am 10/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4450 posts
You can hardly blame anyone for slinging s*** at you dude since the guts of just about every post you made has been you being an obnoxious self important little c***. Most people when they are newish to somewhere tend to pull their heads in a bit until they have found their place and guys that don't get that are pretty much always complete social retards. Now I am not saying that's you but you sure seem to be trying hard to be 'that guy".
06:11am 10/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1488 posts
You can hardly blame anyone for slinging s*** at you dude since the guts of just about every post you made has been you being an obnoxious self important little c***. Most people when they are newish to somewhere tend to pull their heads in a bit until they have found their place and guys that don't get that are pretty much always complete social retards. Now I am not saying that's you but you sure seem to be trying hard to be 'that guy".


He seems to use a lot of facts and have an opinion. Terrible... I know.

I for one, like his conviction.
08:04am 10/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14081 posts
My Vote Compass almost scored a bullseye. I sit slightly to the left and down a little from the center, about 1/3 of my dot covers the center.
08:11am 10/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
949 posts
They pay $20,000 to people smugglers and riot and rape while being held for illegally coming here, they certainly aren't "poor and desperate people" that's for sure.


You say that pay that much but it being an illegal industry you have no idea what the average ticket is worth. Besides which having money doesn't disqualify you from being a refugee, AND $20K is not that much.

I'm a student and I could raise most of that on credit, if you have a whole family working illegally because your kids can't do things like go to school, and you have been in Indonesia or Malaysia for a couple of years $20k is not that bigger target.

As for the illegality point, it is illegal but only because the migration act makes it so. But we are signatories to the Universal declaration of Human Rights and the second option protocol which means its not up to us to determine if an arrival is illegal or not. Its up to the UN. They can't be declared illegal by us and we maintain our international obligations, in the current legal environment. That's the point.

oh and the migration act allows the minister to make a declaration as to the legality of a landing which is f*****g absurd.
It did used to do this but the power has been removed. It's hard to keep pace with that f*****g document under labor, it changes every five seconds it seems.
08:53am 10/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9832 posts
An Agenda ?
yeah to get rid of Labor.
The best thing that could happen to Labor is a huge hiding.
You want a better Government ?
You've got to punish the bad ones.

You people complain about Abbott but the reason Abbott will be PM is because Labor were such pathetic rabble in Government. Make sure Labor learns a lesson.

I cant wait for Election night.
Yeah lets vote in a complete idiot incompetent fool! That will teach Australia for sure, right guys?
04:57pm 10/08/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1432 posts
Ah yes, the typical "Some Fat Bastard" chime in of insults because his dear beloved Labor party is being criticized.
Listen sonny, being a tosser on a forum isn't a life achievement. It's time you realised it.
06:07pm 10/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
370 posts
Tell your b**** keep hatin'
06:14pm 10/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20296 posts
There is no need to be upset. Where's that damn flying mower....
06:25pm 10/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10581 posts
Abbott attended primary school at St Aloysius' College at Milson's Point, before completing his secondary school education at St Ignatius' College, Riverview in Sydney (both are Jesuit schools).

He graduated with a Bachelor of Economics (BEc) and a Bachelor of Laws from the University of Sydney where he resided at St John's College, and was president of the Student Representative Council.

He then travelled via India to Britain to study at The Queen's College, Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, where he graduated with a Master of Arts (MA) in Politics and Philosophy


An Idiot ?

06:29pm 10/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36208 posts
(yes)
02:40pm 11/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
371 posts
You say that pay that much but it being an illegal industry you have no idea what the average ticket is worth. Besides which having money doesn't disqualify you from being a refugee, AND $20K is not that much.


Actually i do have an idea. You should really watch 7:30, it's a really education and informative current affairs program. According to various people smuggles, $20K is a common fee for being smuggled into Aus.

$20k USD is a hell of a lot for apparent "poor desperate people" coming from Afghanistan who most live on or under $1 USD a day.

Let's be generous and say a "poor and desperate" "asylum seeker" is one of them and earns a generous pay of $2 a day. That's $730 USD a year and after 30 years they would have approx $21k USD.

Says it all doesn't it? I wonder where they get the money for to pay for their ticket and to buy their designed clothes and sunglasses, with their fancy luggage?
02:55pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4265 posts
maybe the $20k is like hecs and they get to pay it later (once they arrive and take our jerbs)
03:37pm 11/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
372 posts
Iran is refusing to take back 8,000 Bogus Iranian refugee's so the Australian government is now forced to take these bogus refugees in. Iranians have also overtaken Afghans as the biggest nationality of boat people coming here this year.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/thousands-of-iranians-likely-to-remain-in-australia/story-fncynjr2-1226694834667

Since 2008, more than 12,000 Iranians have come as Irregular Maritime Arrivals and only a quarter have so far won protection.

These are the brand name clothing, designer sun glass wearing, beefcake3000 jacked up types you see in the photos. Completely bogus refugees, just here for some money.
04:56pm 11/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1498 posts
On policy,
I have the choice between action on climate change or not.
I have the choice between being hooked up to fast NBN or not.
I have the choice between welfare for our most vulnerable or tax concessions for the wealthy and ‘economic zones’ for mining magnates.

I have the choice between spending on urban rail or not.
I have the choice between an equitable affordable PPL scheme or one that rewards the wealthy paid for by the poor.
I have the choice between workplace health and safety standards and protection of workers rights or not.
I have the choice between environmental assessments for mining, dredging, and water table protection or a one-stop-shop for developers.

I have a choice between taxing mining companies on the extreme wealth they are accruing from my patrimony or not.
I have a choice between cutting company tax or raising the Newstart allowance.
I have a choice between the full Gonski funding or a very small percentage of it.
06:07pm 11/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10585 posts
the worm is back for the debate !

Rudd didn't even mention Climate Change rofl.
06:36pm 11/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6463 posts
On policy,
I have the choice between action on climate change or not.
I have the choice between being hooked up to fast NBN or not.
I have the choice between welfare for our most vulnerable or tax concessions for the wealthy and ‘economic zones’ for mining magnates.

I have the choice between spending on urban rail or not.
I have the choice between an equitable affordable PPL scheme or one that rewards the wealthy paid for by the poor.
I have the choice between workplace health and safety standards and protection of workers rights or not.
I have the choice between environmental assessments for mining, dredging, and water table protection or a one-stop-shop for developers.

I have a choice between taxing mining companies on the extreme wealth they are accruing from my patrimony or not.
I have a choice between cutting company tax or raising the Newstart allowance.
I have a choice between the full Gonski funding or a very small percentage of it.


I thought I would repost this pic from the last page.

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/G1JUK.jpg
06:39pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2422 posts
Wow the worm is Dominating Rudd.
06:48pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3386 posts
Rudd is failing
06:54pm 11/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
373 posts
This is so fun watching Tony absolutely smash KRudd in the debate! Especially on the s***** GST scare campaign. He just uppercutted Kevin on his boat lie too. This is as fun as watching porn

maybe the $20k is like hecs and they get to pay it later (once they arrive and take our jerbs)


Well, figures released show they don't get jobs. A lot of refugees to Australia have been on welfare for 5 years or more.

maybe the $20k is like hecs and they get to pay it later (once they arrive and take our jerbs)


Well, figures released show they don't get jobs. A lot of refugees to Australia have been on welfare for 5 years or more.
the worm is back for the debate !

Rudd didn't even mention Climate Change rofl.


I'm watching channel 7's coverage. Voters hate Rudd, especially males. Females like him a bit more.
07:01pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2423 posts
Had to stop watching 7's coverage because it was going down for Rudd and up for Abbott regardless of what was being said.
07:07pm 11/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
951 posts
Actually i do have an idea. You should really watch 7:30, it's a really education and informative current affairs program. According to various people smuggles, $20K is a common fee for being smuggled into Aus.

$20k USD is a hell of a lot for apparent "poor desperate people" coming from Afghanistan who most live on or under $1 USD a day.

Let's be generous and say a "poor and desperate" "asylum seeker" is one of them and earns a generous pay of $2 a day. That's $730 USD a year and after 30 years they would have approx $21k USD.

Says it all doesn't it? I wonder where they get the money for to pay for their ticket and to buy their designed clothes and sunglasses, with their fancy luggage?


Actually you don't , some anecdotal evidence from 'people smugglers' on the 7:30 report hardly constitutes solid economic data.

It is an illegal industry so figures on it are bound to be highly unreliable.

The minimum wage at MacDonalds in KL is about $5 Malay dollars per hour. They are coming from countries with economies that are established not the f*****g middle of the Sahara, and you have no idea how many contribute to each ticket. It is very common for one to come and then fly the rest of the family over.

As I pointed out to infi they also come from countries where the Aussie past time is buying counterfeit goods, they almost certainly haven't just got back from rodeo drive.

The point remains however that HAVING MONEY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEEKING ASYLUM even if they were fantastically wealthy if they can establish a real threat to their life they are a refugee.
07:10pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9838 posts
I'm actually interested to see what a Coalition-run government would do to Australia. Guess we'll find out soon.

Also, does Abbott really believe that the mining boom would keep going? He also seems to be regurgitating the same business that Rudd is saying, "if" the boom runs out.
07:10pm 11/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10586 posts
Laurie Oakes has called it for Abbott

The worm called it for Rudd on 9

I saw part of it and Rudds style seems kind of stale.
I think the longer the Election campaign goes the more his support will fall.
Hes not the Messiah, hes just a naughty boy.





07:41pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Jayman
Brisbane, Queensland
849 posts
I watched most of it on the ABC site live stream. It had 72% Rudd from twitter.
07:53pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2424 posts
It was very close and I think everyone was expecting Rudd to thump Abbott but it just didn't happen. IMO I think Abbott had a good night and Rudd was off his game.
08:26pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3004 posts
It's hard to 'debate' Tony Abbott on economic policy when he hasn't released his full policy yet it's really just "We are much betterer at it than the ALP they spend, and um, yeah, we had Howard and Costello and made heaps before - so we will do it again".

Any guesses when they will release more detailed costings? 2 days before? 3 days??
08:38pm 11/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20298 posts
Also, does Abbott really believe that the mining boom would keep going?

If you watched the BHP CEO on 7.30 earlier in the week, it will continue for the indefinite future.

what am I saying? We have the magical Kevin saying the boom is over.
08:59pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3005 posts
You don't think the BHP CEO is going to say that the boom is still here? Mining is pretty f***ed at the moment, if it picks up in the future, great, but there's certainly no 'boom' right now.

I certainly don't think there's a problem with what he is preaching, which is to diversify our economy.
09:12pm 11/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20299 posts
When has the economy ever been fantastic over the past 5 years? Despite the mining boom the economy has been depressed. But at least congratulaitons to Kevin and Julia for taxing the only part of the economy that was making some decent headway.

Demand for resources will be indefinite from China, it is now a modernising country. The challenge for Australia is to not shoot itself in the foot by taxing everything that moves.
09:22pm 11/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6464 posts
Technically the mining capex boom is over but the demand for resources from emerging economies will remain albeit at a reduced level.

Both were waffling bulls*** tonight.

Rudd is definatly the more skilled bulls*** artist.
09:31pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3006 posts
Commodity prices have dropped, sharply, that's a global issue, and has nothing to do with our taxes etc.

Due to lower profits the mining tax has generated virtually no revenue - which is exactly what it's supposed to do, it's only supposed to bring in revenue if the profits are there.

The Carbon tax is going out the door and an ETS is going to be in place next year. So, I don't know what all these magical taxes are that you're talking about. I'm pretty certain that the carbon tax has very little to do with the state of mining in Australia to be honest.
09:34pm 11/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9839 posts
When has the economy ever been fantastic over the past 5 years? Despite the mining boom the economy has been depressed. But at least congratulaitons to Kevin and Julia for taxing the only part of the economy that was making some decent headway.Demand for resources will be indefinite from China, it is now a modernising country. The challenge for Australia is to not shoot itself in the foot by taxing everything that moves.
I think that is where Rudd is coming from, and seems to make sense in my mind. Push out to other fields, don't put your "eggs in one basket" because we all know what happens then. Why not diversify?
09:37pm 11/08/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1499 posts
I'm watching channel 7's coverage. Voters hate Rudd, especially males. Females like him a bit more.


The quality of Channel 7's coverage;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1003048_658049377540974_132493402_n.jpg
10:05pm 11/08/13 Permalink
slyin
Brisbane, Queensland
143 posts
If you watched the BHP CEO on 7.30 earlier in the week, it will continue for the indefinite future. what am I saying? We have the magical Kevin saying the boom is over.


OH WOW THE CEO OF A MINING COMPANY SAYS THE MINING BOOM ISN"T ENDING SOON AND IS LOOKING GREAT "INDEFINITELY"

almost as noteworthy as the posts of a liberal party member and donor praising everything LNP related
10:56pm 11/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10588 posts

KEVIN Rudd has been accused of cheating during the leaders' debate after using speaking notes to help him against Tony Abbott.

The debate's moderator, Sky News political editor David Speers, revealed following the debate that the Prime Minister had used the paperwork against the rules.

Footage of Mr Rudd shows he was holding a pile of papers and he appeared to repeatedly reference them while talking.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/election-debate-kevin-rudd-accused-of-cheating-after-using-notes-during-debate/story-fnho52ip-1226695152852#ixzz2bfHSrNRT

Even cheating Rudd still lost.
Cheats never prosper
10:58pm 11/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20301 posts
The debate's moderator, Sky News political editor David Speers, revealed following the debate that the Prime Minister had used the paperwork against the rules.


Typical psychopath behaviour. Psychopaths love breaking rules, and love to flaunt it in public daring others to call out their behaviour.
11:21pm 11/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
374 posts
Kevin was not only called out for lying in the debate, but has now been called out for cheating. Typical Kevin.

I'm excited for the Liberals infrastructure plan that Tony outlined in his speech in the debate.
12:20am 12/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3007 posts
I'm pretty sure that wasn't new news Peter, I'm great to see what a grand vision the LNP have, more f*****g roads! The vision, the foresight!!

If it weren't for the ALP would we be talking about an NBN, even a gimped one under the LNP? Abbott supports his NBN vision because he realised the actual NBN plan was quite popular.

If it weren't for the ALP would we be talking about serious education reform? Which Abbott was against for so long, but now seems kinda OK with given the traction it got.

If it weren't for the ALP would we have an NDIS (or something similar), Howard was in government for f*****g ever and did we even begin to seriously talk about this?

If it weren't for the ALP would be having a serious conversation about marriage equality? Well, Abbott is still against it, so I guess that answers that question.

The LNP are a bunch of uninspired, archaic twonks. They grasp onto the credentials of economic management like a monkey with a banana, because they had an easy run with Howard during the actual mining boom times. F*** off Abbott, we need another 3 years to complete the NBN, roll out the Gonski changes, and when Abbott is booted out for losing the election then Malcolm Turnbull will allow a conscience vote on same sex marriage!

Goodbye LNP, Goodbye Abbott. Hello Rudd (for another 3 years), and then I say then I would be happier with LNP under Turnbull for the next election in 2016.
07:10am 12/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36215 posts
The LNP are a bunch of uninspired, archaic twonks. They grasp onto the credentials of economic management like a monkey with a banana, because they had an easy run with Howard during the actual mining boom times. F*** off Abbott, we need another 3 years to complete the NBN, roll out the Gonski changes, and when Abbott is booted out for losing the election then Malcolm Turnbull will allow a conscience vote on same sex marriage!


all of those things cost money though!!!!!

ITS NOT A GOVERNMENTS JOB TO SPEND MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
07:14am 12/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3008 posts
all of those things cost money though!!!!!

ITS NOT A GOVERNMENTS JOB TO SPEND MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You serious? So, we shouldn't have publicly funded health? We shouldn't have unemployment schemes, or disability schemes? We should rely on private enterprise for broadband solutions - which is why we're in such a f*****g mess now, and of course the copper WAS a government funded roll-out when it happened.

Perhaps you should go live in the US Spook, they're probably closer to the harsh unforgiving reality you're after.

PS - Abbott is spending money too, so you shouldn't vote for him as well.
PPS - A reform on same sex marriage wouldn't cost money, it would likely generate it for our economy.
07:25am 12/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36216 posts
(i agree with you)

07:27am 12/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36217 posts
i was just making the comments that the usual suspects would be chiming in with (to point out how retarded they are)

i challenge everyone to watch the video above and not be terrified that this guy could seriously be the leader of our great country :(
07:34am 12/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3009 posts
I fail at internet sarcasm :) But yes, he is Australia's George W Bush.
07:53am 12/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6466 posts
08:33am 12/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14255 posts
The debate result was dubious and seems to depend on what you're scoring for and where your bias lies.

Unfortunately for the ALP, Rudd needed to win more and was expected to thump Tony.
08:47am 12/08/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4337 posts
you've been taking from trillions stash again haven't you d0mino
08:49am 12/08/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
3010 posts
Agreed Hoggie, I don't think there was an obvious winner, but I had expected Rudd to be the clear winner. It was very dull though, it wasn't a debate at all, it was just "here's my policy (or lack of policy) - thanks". No cross examination, very very little back and forth. Boring. That to be honest, is probably why there wasn't a clear cut winner IMO.
09:11am 12/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20302 posts
We know which candidate can speak without notes at least.
09:18am 12/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4266 posts
really? are notes such a big deal?
09:37am 12/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9840 posts
We know which candidate can speak without notes at least.

Wait I thought you were allowed to take some notes into a debate? How on earth are you able to recall all the minute details about percentages and facts without a piece of paper? Or do they just make stuff up?
09:54am 12/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6232 posts
If notes were against the rules then Rudd should rightly get a kick up the bum because it's potentially an advantage.

That said, what kind of a stupid rule is "no notes" in a national political debate?!
Whatshisface from Sky news and other journos bending the "no props" rule to make a story I think.
09:55am 12/08/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5329 posts
I wonder if what Tony was saying can be deemed a core promise or a non-core promise. With no notes his remarks were definitely not carefully scripted. And we all know where Tony stands on remarks that aren't carefully scripted.

09:57am 12/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36218 posts
infi, always dealing with the big issues!
10:03am 12/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1049 posts
I wonder when we will see final policies from the Libs?

They are promising a lot of things it will be interesting to see what is cut.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/08/how-big-is-tonys-budget-black-hole/

http://theconversation.com/news-corp-australia-vs-the-nbn-is-it-really-all-about-foxtel-16768
11:02am 12/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
376 posts
I'm pretty sure that wasn't new news Peter, I'm great to see what a grand vision the LNP have, more f*****g roads! The vision, the foresight!!If


Well considering our major capital cities have had major growth with no new major roads to support the growth, it is a good vision.

People are kidding themselves if they think you can just "public transport" your way through major growth without any major new highways/roads.

Wait I thought you were allowed to take some notes into a debate? How on earth are you able to recall all the minute details about percentages and facts without a piece of paper? Or do they just make stuff up?


It's called knowing what you are talking about. They set out rules that you weren't allowed to take notes in. This rule was made so their speech writers and spin doctors couldn't write them up a list of talking points etc for them to spin out, like what happened in 2010 with Gillard v Abbot debate. It was just pre written note reading.

But of course Kevin cheated.
11:39am 12/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4268 posts
i guess he shouldn't "of" done it then if he agreed to those rules
12:40pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6599 posts
01:43pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4269 posts
ha, I guess he is technically correct though
01:49pm 12/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20303 posts
infi, always dealing with the big issues!


there is no problem with taking notes as the debate progresses (as per the agreed conditions) but Rudd spoke from pre-prepared note so why agree to a "no prepared notes" condition on the debate?

It's because Kevin is a psychopath and the rules never apply him. F*****g egomaniac...
02:20pm 12/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1779 posts
hahaha, what a twat


Kinda funny considering pollies spend most of their time talking out their ass.

Meanwhile the actual issues of the debate fall by the wayside as it degenerates into just another s***fight as each side tries to claim victory.
03:17pm 12/08/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4130 posts
If notes were against the rules then Rudd should rightly get a kick up the bum because it's potentially an advantage.That said, what kind of a stupid rule is "no notes" in a national political debate?!Whatshisface from Sky news and other journos bending the "no props" rule to make a story I think.



really, tony has had how many years to practice?, vs how many weeks/months rudds has known/thought he might be returned to power??
06:13pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36219 posts
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/tony-abbott-declares-8216no-one-can-be-a-suppository-of-all-wisdom8217/story-fnho52ip-1226695541167


rhodes scholar!!!!!

turns out old tone cheated at the prior debate, just no one cared because its such an unimportant thing.
06:21pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14256 posts
No notes is a very very very stupid rule for a national debate, we don't expect the leaders to govern blind so we shouldn't expect them to debate blind.

It may be why Tony's oratory lacked anything of significant substance? He's had enough trouble with off the cuff remarks so was probably advised to stick with various arrangements of empty 3-word sound bites.

I am disappoint. I don't care if Rudd 'cheated' as it doesn't seem to have done him many favours, most people found his delivery lacking and stuffy in comparison. I care that the debate was essentially wasted, I wanted to see the two of them at their best without dopey artificial constraints.

Whose stupid f*****g rule was it anyway?
06:37pm 12/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
378 posts
Tony is a funny one
"Opposition leader Tony Abbott has mistakenly likened Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's leadership style to a dissolving capsule inserted in people's nether regions.


He is spot on with that comment rofl. People think he is stupid, but he's just trolling and you are all eating it up. F*****g love it. I can't wait to help make him Prime Minister
07:48pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6601 posts
the only person he is trolling is himself.
07:53pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9841 posts
Tony is a funny oneHe is spot on with that comment rofl. People think he is stupid, but he's just trolling and you are all eating it up. F*****g love it. I can't wait to help make him Prime Minister
Man, that potential prime minister sure is a good troll.
07:53pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3387 posts
I cant wait for the election so this thread will end.

On the topic of the courier mail siding with the libs. Which they are clearly doing.... Don't you all remember them siding with the ALP post and prior to the QLD state election?
08:03pm 12/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20305 posts
Tophat, monocle and cigar.
08:06pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14090 posts
What do these guys do when they get a man-cold and have to debate on TV. Imagine them popping a few anti-histamines and paracetamol then hitting up the big questions on live debate. That would make it a bit more interesting.

Bugger it, make them both drop some LSD and hit the debate floor. That will be some pretty good watching I bet.
08:12pm 12/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1780 posts
What do these guys do when they get a man-cold and have to debate on TV. Imagine them popping a few anti-histamines and paracetamol then hitting up the big questions on live debate. That would make it a bit more interesting


Nixon gave it a shot and it didn't work out very well for him.


He is spot on with that comment rofl. People think he is stupid, but he's just trolling and you are all eating it up. F*****g love it. I can't wait to help make him Prime Minister


So do you think your frothing at the mouth like a lunatic helps or hinders his chances of getting votes?
08:15pm 12/08/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4340 posts
To help those undecided.

http://www.virginvoters.com.au/
08:52pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14091 posts

I have mixed feelings about those political cartoons. On one hand they are sometimes funny, on the other hand I think they are pretty lazy/dodgy/uncreative when they seemingly always have the punchline is literally written on an object that represents the policies. :/
09:25pm 12/08/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11077 posts
09:46pm 12/08/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2201 posts
I cant wait for the election so this thread will end.

But it won't. As evidenced by the last election, this country has become so polarised that it doesn't matter who 'wins' in September, the supporters of the side that didn't gain office will continue to bemoan how Australia's stuffed, with a terrible choice of leader.
12:46am 13/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
380 posts
Australia needs a government that is elected outright with a majority. It's coming everyone, just a few more weeks before faith in government is restored.
01:29am 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9843 posts
Australia needs a government that is elected outright with a majority. It's coming everyone, just a few more weeks before faith in government is restored.
If you honestly think Abbott and the Coalition will be voted in with a majority you are going to be sorely disappointed. I agree though with Creepy, we need a party and leader that are going to be voted in that everyone agrees with, or at least majority wise agree with. Right now if either Rudd or Abbott get in people are still going to moan and claim Australia is going backwards because boats or something.
09:31am 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20309 posts
If you honestly think Abbott and the Coalition will be voted in with a majority you are going to be sorely disappointed.


All betting agencies and all national polls disagree with you.
09:35am 13/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6234 posts
Heh, it's a bold call to predict a second hung parliament after the bizarre 3 years we've had in Canberra.
09:43am 13/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1050 posts
Heh, it's a bold call to predict a second hung parliament after the bizarre 3 years we've had in Canberra.



I hope it is and the Greens can get through all kinds of crazy legislation again haha.


http://theconversation.com/no-gst-change-under-abbott-ever-pyne-16980?

This is interesting that they are not going to touch the GST. The revenue will have to come from somewhere to fund the promises that the Liberals are taking to this election.

Looks like it's services that will be cut to the bone.
10:52am 13/08/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2206 posts
It won't be hung. There's too many weirdo marginal swings and reshuffles to ensure that won't happen again.
10:53am 13/08/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10591 posts
Im looking forward to the following election when the Senate refuses to dump the deeply unpopular and pointless Carbon Tax.
By that time Labor will have turned on Rudd again and be tearing itself apart.

Things are outwardly calm in Labor at the moment but inside its building.
Shorten and Conroid have had a huge falling out and the row over the candidate that intimidated a disabled person was leaked from inside Labor.

11:05am 13/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6235 posts
This is interesting that they are not going to touch the GST. The revenue will have to come from somewhere to fund the promises that the Liberals are taking to this election.

Even if they did increase the GST, the federal government can't use it for spending promises. They won't see any of that money since it's distributed amongst the states.
11:09am 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9846 posts
Great talk on the NBN between both parties: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3824057.htm
11:34am 13/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4453 posts
Oh f*****g yay, that blithering tool abbott has made the news over here for his dumbass f*** up. Let the global humiliation of Australia begin and here I was thinking we might have to at least wait until the f*****g jerkoff got elected.
11:38am 13/08/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14095 posts
One thing that really irks me with economic reporting in papers/news sites is that they give figures such as unemployment will be 6.25%, Budget to be in surplus of $4.2Billion 2016-2017, is that they don't give any indication on error.

So is that unemployment 6.25% +/- 1%? or The budget surplus $4.2B +/- $6B? Who knows, the numbers don't mean a lot without it..
11:51am 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20310 posts
Oh f*****g yay, that blithering tool abbott has made the news over here for his dumbass f*** up. Let the global humiliation of Australia begin and here I was thinking we might have to at least wait until the f*****g jerkoff got elected.


hey the world has already seen rudd's swearing and ranting and raving. abbott is entitled to a slip, rudd is just psychopathic.
11:55am 13/08/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5959 posts
Question: If I am not enrolled does that mean I dont have to vote and wont get fined?
11:56am 13/08/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6236 posts
Great talk on the NBN between both parties: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3824057.htm


That was kind of embarrassing for Albo. I don't accept the Libs plan is better for the country in the long term, but Labor has a terrible sales pitch.
11:57am 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20311 posts
I am watching it right now. Malcolm is handing Albo''s arse to him.

Question: If I am not enrolled does that mean I dont have to vote and wont get fined?


To the best of my knowledge, there will be no need to vote, the AEC would not know you exist.
11:59am 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9848 posts
hey the world has already seen rudd's swearing and ranting and raving. abbott is entitled to a slip, rudd is just psychopathic.
What is with you and claiming the prime minister is a psychopath or egomaniac? Do you have a personal vendetta or something? I've never seen someone so angry at politics before, quite funny.
12:05pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20312 posts
What is with you and claiming the prime minister is a psychopath or egomaniac?


Look up the clinical definition of the term and you will see he ticks all the boxes. So it's not a vendetta, it's a fact. We all work along side or personally know psychopaths, it's just that normally they charm your pants off because that is their MO. Psychopaths are toxic to any organisation, that is why Rudd is so despised by his own party yet the punters find him affable. As Warren Mundine said, "if you like Kevin Rudd don't meet him!"

If you don't believe Warren Mundine maybe all the senior politicians and journos in this video are talking crap too.

http://youtu.be/u-5RgFe9OX4

edit: pondering more on your question: i just can't stand fake people. Rudd is as fake as they get - a phony who smiles disarmingly and takes embarassing selfies, seemingly harmless on the surface. And yet underneath is a ruthless foul mouthed abusive, autocratic, condescending and intensely dislikeable character.
12:11pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9849 posts
That was kind of embarrassing for Albo. I don't accept the Libs plan is better for the country in the long term, but Labor has a terrible sales pitch.
He should have kept drilling in the fact that Liberal pulled the $94 billion figure out of nowhere and that what the Liberal's are hoping to be a $24 billion cost is going to inflate exponentially when they have to continue fixing the lines and eventually pull it all up to place fibre down. I do feel bad for those confused and just hear the smaller numbers but don't realise they aren't factoring in a number of future expectations.
12:18pm 13/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1781 posts
God you can be full of s*** sometimes infi.
12:38pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9850 posts
edit: pondering more on your question: i just can't stand fake people. Rudd is as fake as they get - a phony who smiles disarmingly and takes embarassing selfies, seemingly harmless on the surface. And yet underneath is a ruthless foul mouthed abusive, autocratic, condescending and intensely dislikeable character.
You kind of described pretty much every politician, including your fabled Abbott.
12:43pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20313 posts
God you can be full of s*** sometimes infi.


Are the conga line of people in the youtube clip full of s*** too?
12:45pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4270 posts
That was kind of embarrassing for Albo. I don't accept the Libs plan is better for the country in the long term, but Labor has a terrible sales pitch.

agreed, I mean the NBN is indeed for health, education and aged care services, but mostly porn
12:58pm 13/08/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2112 posts
That was kind of embarrassing for Albo. I don't accept the Libs plan is better for the country in the long term, but Labor has a terrible sales pitch.


hahaha

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Because the - see, Anthony doesn't understand how thing is priced. Let me explain.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No-one's as smart as you, Malcolm.

struggle street.
01:02pm 13/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
381 posts
OMG LATEST SCANDAL OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

Tony Abbot has noted one of his candidates is attractive. OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG MISOGNY OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

The media and political correctors are hilariously ridiculous.
06:06pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36236 posts
tone is perfectly suited to politics.

in the 1950s.
06:50pm 13/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23182 posts
Hey guys why don't you believe my internet diagnosis of Rudd being a psychopath? Just check out this youtube video of a bunch of people who agree with me as proof! - an Australian Liberal Voter.

edit:
OMG LATEST SCANDAL OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

Tony Abbot has noted one of his candidates is attractive. OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG MISOGNY OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

The media and political correctors are hilariously ridiculous.
Not nearly as hilarious as your hysterical frothing at the mouth posts. Oh boy.
06:58pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20314 posts
Just check out this youtube video of a bunch of people who agree with me as proof!


Those bunch of people being senior cabinet ministers who worked beside him, and journos who followed him 24/7. What would they know HAH! He looks alright on the tele.
07:33pm 13/08/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17315 posts
07:33pm 13/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23183 posts
Those bunch of people being senior cabinet ministers who worked beside him, and journos who followed him 24/7. What would they know HAH! He looks alright on the tele.
Not sure if you're being serious but it may shock you to know that co-workers and journos aren't exactly the right people to get such a diagnosis from. In fact, some people might consider it outright foolishness to seek mental health advice from such people.
07:43pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20315 posts
if you have a read of any of the common psychopathy checklists Rudd qualifies easily - IF you believe the stories his colleagues tell about him. Of course they could all be lying and he really is a nice guy - he does seem nice on the tele
07:47pm 13/08/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
952 posts
Hey guys why don't you believe my internet diagnosis of Rudd being a psychopath?


I don't know if he is a psychopath or not but Rudd scares me more than Abbott. If you ever watch insiders Rudd does get accused by a wide variety of people behavior that fits the bill. I think in this case there is enough smoke to warrant a closer look.
07:48pm 13/08/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23184 posts
You're right dude. It's a very sound behaviour to listen to a few things people say about another person, cross-check those things with a common psychopathy check-list, and then make a confident diagnosis based on that rigorous and thoroughly scientific procedure. It's basically how I think all mental and physical health diagnoses should be performed from now on.

Like, how can you be this stupid infi?
07:51pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20316 posts
In the workplace employers have be attentive to whenever bullies are starting to affect the work experience for others. Employers have an obligation to provide a safe workplace. Try reading Working with Monsters by John Clarke (aka Clarke and Dawes).

I have booted plenty of psychopathic workers and leaders from my businesses. Look for the classic signs of bullying: isolating tactics, abusive language, lying, a thin friendly veneer (two faced), cunning (never get caught), intimidation tactics, no empathy for colleagues, selfish, eager to take credit, blame others for failure, co-workers refusing to work alone or closely with.

The unfortunate thing about psychopaths is that through their bravado and sheer ruthless they tend to rise into executive positions.

Hang on I just described Kevin Rudd.
08:03pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9855 posts
OMG LATEST SCANDAL OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG.Tony Abbot has noted one of his candidates is attractive. OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG MISOGNY OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.The media and political correctors are hilariously ridiculous.
Wait, weren't you just before jumping on the "Kevin is cheat for using a paper that had facts on it" bandwagon? Or is this not allowed against your fearless leader Abbott the Boat Crusader?

Also, brilliant video Rav.
08:09pm 13/08/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3200 posts
profiling. behavioural analysis. aggregate statistics.

all of these are gaylord subjects of old politicians trying stop the waves of revolution to challenge their comfort zone of leadership power while they cover up the inconvenient truths of their past.

the government exists as an incumbent service for the incompetant or the plain lazy for the people, not to sit on their arses, go on diplomatic hob nobbings, and otherwise spend the taxation slush funds of the lower and middle classes while essentially just riding high on the fortune of rich and the brave and motivated to action masses.

they need to have some measure of their constituency to keep them leading the blind and unfortunate in society though.

someone with a license should probably fly a helicopter into a prison again like back in the day to free the oppressed. but then the diplomacy will lose their bureaucratic accounting of control measures against those doing something for the greater good.
08:17pm 13/08/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10104 posts
jesus guys....


for those of us who can - we were supposed to be getting into international markets now. Why just be a trady when you can build a school or other infrastructure in a village in another country?


yes, really.


...but you won't.






08:30pm 13/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
382 posts
tone is perfectly suited to politics.

in the 1950s.


So i guess the people in this thread who were noting TA's daughters attractiveness belong in the 1950's too?

Not nearly as hilarious as your hysterical frothing at the mouth posts. Oh boy.


lol @ fpot not realizing my posts are sarcastically mimicking the frothers who scream "misogyny" and all the other bs for basically nothing.

Wait, weren't you just before jumping on the "Kevin is cheat for using a paper that had facts on it" bandwagon? Or is this not allowed against your fearless leader Abbott the Boat Crusader?Also, brilliant video Rav.


If it was fake cheating, then it would be ridiculous.

Wait, weren't you just before jumping on the "Kevin is cheat for using a paper that had facts on it" bandwagon? Or is this not allowed against your fearless leader Abbott the Boat Crusader?Also, brilliant video Rav.


If it was fake cheating, then it would be ridiculous.
In the workplace employers have be attentive to whenever bullies are starting to affect the work experience for others. Employers have an obligation to provide a safe workplace. Try reading Working with Monsters by John Clarke (aka Clarke and Dawes).I have booted plenty of psychopathic workers and leaders from my businesses. Look for the classic signs of bullying: isolating tactics, abusive language, lying, a thin friendly veneer (two faced), cunning (never get caught), intimidation tactics, no empathy for colleagues, selfish, eager to take credit, blame others for failure, co-workers refusing to work alone or closely with.The unfortunate thing about psychopaths is that through their bravado and sheer ruthless they tend to rise into executive positions.Hang on I just described Kevin Rudd.


I was reading a report the other day that apparently 1 in 3
(or something similar) people are work place psychopaths
08:31pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20317 posts
certain occupations do attract more psychopathy than others: politics is one of them. Narcissism and psychopathy profiles are rife due to the nature of the business. As hopeless as Julia was, at least she had empathy.
08:42pm 13/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6467 posts
ha ha

08:45pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36237 posts
Also, brilliant video Rav.


certainly not a good look for liberal politicians!

So i guess the people in this thread who were noting TA's daughters attractiveness belong in the 1950's too?


it certainly wouldnt be a good look if any of us were running for a political position (let alone for the top political position in australian politics), rather than posting on a predominantly male gaming forum on computars
09:04pm 13/08/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1783 posts
isolating tactics, abusive language, lying, a thin friendly veneer (two faced), cunning (never get caught), intimidation tactics, no empathy for colleagues, selfish, eager to take credit, blame others for failure, co-workers refusing to work alone or closely with


Isn't that all politicians?

Its possible Kevin Rudd is a psychopath, but lets leave the diagnosis to mental health professionals, not a bunch of people on youtube who have a bone to pick.
10:40pm 13/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
383 posts
it certainly wouldnt be a good look if any of us were running for a political position (let alone for the top political position in australian politics), rather than posting on a predominantly male gaming forum on computars


Why? What is so wrong about acknowledging someone is good looking? Similar harmless comments are made all the time by males and females as compliments. There's nothing wrong with it.
11:12pm 13/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20320 posts
I think the idea to politics is that it is about ideas and policies and building a better Australia - not about having a hot rack.
11:15pm 13/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4454 posts
In the workplace employers have be attentive to whenever bullies are starting to affect the work experience for others. Employers have an obligation to provide a safe workplace. Try reading Working with Monsters by John Clarke (aka Clarke and Dawes).I have booted plenty of psychopathic workers and leaders from my businesses. Look for the classic signs of bullying: isolating tactics, abusive language, lying, a thin friendly veneer (two faced), cunning (never get caught), intimidation tactics, no empathy for colleagues, selfish, eager to take credit, blame others for failure, co-workers refusing to work alone or closely with.The unfortunate thing about psychopaths is that through their bravado and sheer ruthless they tend to rise into executive positions.Hang on I just described Kevin Rudd.



So getting rid of people from your business isnt as hard as you had told us it is in the past? Judging by this, your opinion of their mental state is all you need to boot someone. Seriously infi find a f*****g story and stick to it.

As for your attitude to workers youre just a greedy c***, which is pretty much in keeping with the libs. Just remember mate without all the peasants youve got five fiths of f*****g nothing.

As to your opinion of labor and rudd it wouldnt matter what was said youll find something that fits your world view
12:20am 14/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4455 posts
Why? What is so wrong about acknowledging someone is good looking? Similar harmless comments are made all the time by males and females as compliments. There's nothing wrong with it.


Given the recent s*** he went through to do with women you think right or wrong he might be a little more carefull with what comes out of his mouth no matter how harmless. I guess he simply isnt that smart as if that was any kind of surprise.
12:31am 14/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20321 posts
As for your attitude to workers youre just a greedy c***, which is pretty much in keeping with the libs.


Typical of the union pigs who protect psychopathic bullies and make working life hell for the genuine hard workers. I look after my workers by getting rid of bullies - something you sound opposed to. Unions protect bullies, just like Pat Purcell - as long as they pay their dues of course.
12:39am 14/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4456 posts
Not at all infi i will back any boss that makes a better work environment for their people and you know that. Youre just trying to twist this into something its not. My point is you cry a f*****g river over how hard it is to get rid of people then here you talk about flicking undesirables as though it is all to easy based on your opinion that they are nut jobs.

So which is it, is it hard or easy? Pick on dude and stick to it.
01:08am 14/08/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
384 posts
As long as the union fat cats are getting their pay cheque. they don't care who they are supporting or why they are stopping work.
02:01am 14/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4457 posts
As long as the union fat cats are getting their pay cheque. they don't care who they are supporting or why they are stopping work.


Yaaaawn really poor troll kido, seriously how old are you?
02:31am 14/08/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6468 posts
07:40am 14/08/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1051 posts
"Better call Saul"

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/08/saul-eslake-for-treasurer/


This guy sounds dreamy. I only don't agree with extending GST to cover fresh foods. I don't see how someone wealthy would consume way more of this.

He is talking about touching the golden eggs though. Negative gearing, family trusts, superannuation. Wealthy people need tax breaks so they can create more jobs.
08:52am 14/08/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4458 posts
What a crock of s*** wealthy people invest when they see a profit in it ie a market with consumers. No consumers no profit and what do ya know no frigging jobs created. Thats the same tired s*** the republicans here in the US have been harping on and selling to the masses for way to frigging long.
09:03am 14/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20322 posts
Unless individuals save capital they cannot invest. Without capital equipment there is no business and no jobs. Taipan you have a kindergarten level knowledge of economics and business. What is your occupation?
09:41am 14/08/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1199 posts
His argument is for broadening the base for investment with removal of negative gearing, instead of artificially inflating a markets value with no real additional investment being made. It's had the opposite of the effect of what you really want.
10:03am 14/08/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1490 posts
Taipan you have a kindergarten level knowledge of the economics and business.

+1
10:45am 14/08/13 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5330 posts
For PeterPossum:

"If any male employer stood up in a workplace anywhere in Australia and pointing to a female staff member, said, 'This person is a good staff member because they've got sex appeal,' I think people would scratch their heads at least and I think the employer would be finding themselves in serious strife.

"So my policy's pretty simple, that in modern Australia, neither sexism nor racism nor homophobia has any place whatsoever. I believe people look to our national leaders to set that sort of example."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/election-live3a-august-14/4885252
11:37am 14/08/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20323 posts
No doubt, women won't be appreciating that he mentioned her most deifning quality to be having a nice rack.
11:56am 14/08/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6602 posts
11:58am 14/08/13 Permalink