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Kevin Rudd: rebooted ?
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10305 posts
Hes back
After an entertaining interview on 7:30 last night(and rumours that The ABC postponed a chat with GillarD) Kevin has made a Messiah like visit to Geelong where he healed the sick and walked on water.


THE Rudd show is back in town.

Kissing babies and shaking hands turned into mayhem when the former Prime Minister toured through Geelong today.

"Come back, come back Kevin," screamed scores of middle-aged fans as he strolled through Corio shopping centre.

Mr Rudd chose not to comment. Instead he posed for photos. Even re-took a few.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/special-features/forget-kevin-07-now-its-comeback-kevin-as-former-prime-minister-is-mobbed-in-geelong/story-fnho52jp-1226659427849

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/06/07/1226659/423906-kevin-rudd.jpg


http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/06/07/1226659/424226-kevin-rudd.jpg


http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/06/07/1226659/424966-kevin-rudd.jpg

No Sandwich Snipers were spotted.
You don't see people that happy to see Gillard.
05:21pm 07/06/13 Permalink
system
Internet
--
05:21pm 07/06/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8215 posts
Yesterday Kevin Rudd came out and said: Politicians shouldn't make excuses for their impending election loss, they should come up with a plan to win the election and act on it

Just kidding, he said this: "It is completely wrong for people in our national political life to be on about constructing alibis for defeat when our responsibility on behalf of the people we represent and the parliament of Australia is not just to devise a strategy for victory but to implement that strategy as well."

When I hear his smarmy language I just cringe.
05:36pm 07/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
252 posts
He's gearing up to take over the leadership after gillard and the government gets annihilated election, you can easily tell. He's going all over the country holding leader style meetings and conferences at schools etc. He is using youtube to release leader style videos and viral videos to gain popularity.

No other backbencher does this.
05:40pm 07/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20012 posts
Not gonna happen. The ALP hates Rudd more than they hate Abbott.
05:41pm 07/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
900 posts
I don't get Rudd.

He keeps saying he is behind Gillard, blah blah blah. Then he is out campaigning in Geelong. WTF does a labor backbencher from Queensland have to do with Geelong.

He needs to shut the f*** up and camp out in Griffith to put an end to leadership speculation and he knows it. This really can only be read as "I'm still here Gillard".
06:43pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Viper119
UK
2055 posts
Didn't Gillard stab him in the back already? Wouldn't be suprised if he did it back.

As long as Tony Abbot doesn't get in, can you imagine?
06:53pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6895 posts
Didn't Gillard stab him in the back already?
No, Rudd lost the support of his party. Same way Abbott replaced Turnbull.
07:10pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6074 posts
Yeah there's a reason he got knifed and hasn't been able to stage a coherent comeback since.
Behind the scenes the government was just as pissed off with Rudd as they are now with Gillard. People seem to forget that Rudd's polling numbers leading up to the backstab were dismal as well but now everyone loves him. I'm certain if Labor went with a return to Rudd that after a few months the public will start to remember why they didn't like him either. The Libs are certain to line up all the clips of Labor MPs paying out on Rudd and play them in a loop this election.

Can't bring him back & he won't go away. Sad to say that Labor has dug their own hole. :(
07:32pm 07/06/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3983 posts
he's a f*****g twerp, bring back Howard already ffs.
07:58pm 07/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10306 posts
The Media love to follow him too.
Every time he goes somewhere that's the #1 story of the day in Politics.
The Media don't care what Gillard and Abbott is doing, wheres Kevin today ?

The ALP hates Rudd more than they hate Abbott.


Its fascinating stuff.
They would rather be OBLITERATED than let him back.
Its no wonder they cant run the Country, they cant even run their own Party.
08:02pm 07/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6376 posts
Rudd is mad but the bogans love him .. go figure
08:13pm 07/06/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10046 posts
Yeah there's a reason he got knifed and hasn't been able to stage a coherent comeback since.



he's marketable...


poor bastard.
08:14pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6077 posts
He certainly is marketable, but caveat emptor :D
09:01pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Caveboy
Brisbane, Queensland
365 posts
Could anyone ever vote labor again?
09:07pm 07/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3730 posts
yes.. as bad as they are, liberals are worse
09:40pm 07/06/13 Permalink
spiral_out
Brisbane, Queensland
2517 posts
parties should get 10 years in power then swap. all this democracy gets in the way of progress.
11:36pm 07/06/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1905 posts
rudd has always been on the outer because he didn't get parachuted in by some union and has no allegiance(read: back scratching) to some backroom labor union wanker, the 'faceless' men he campaigned about.

rudd had the charisma to win big for labor then he was knifed. gillard didn't win the last election she did deal with independents and the greens to stay in govt.

maybe its all for the best that labor will be decimated, the dodgy dealings the faceless men have become public knowledge and its on the nose. rudd can claim the moral high ground because he's not an ex unionist like 90% of them.

rudd will retain his seat, not sure on most of the others.
05:59am 08/06/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2153 posts
I just don't get his star power.

When I hear him talk, I want to punch things..
07:36am 08/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10307 posts
fair shake of the sauce bottle creepy
10:41am 08/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
901 posts
rudd will retain his seat, not sure on most of the others.


My issue is this. Rudd earned his dislike in the party. He is an untrustworthy manipulative c*** head. I can remember a comment by Alexander Downer, saying when ever he wanted to leak something Rudd was his go to guy.

He isn't knifing Gillard with the constant media presence. He is knifing Labor, and he knows it. This is a leader we can all really aspire for. Someone who will actively sink a government because he didn't get his way.
11:40am 08/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11288 posts
What a joke Australia is that we can't have the prime minister we want because his party don't like him. Of course if he's the man of the people he is going to be at odds with a bunch of politicians. The government of australia westminster thing runs on a bad algorithm.
12:08pm 08/06/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1906 posts
He is knifing Labor, and he knows it.


That's probably a correct assessment.. he's knifing what labor has become which not what the party should be. It is a workers protest party which is supposed to look after the interests of the lower/middle class.

All it has been looking after lately is its career unionist mates who have never worked a day in their lives or ran a business, it rewards dodgy deals done years before, it hands plumb bureaucratic jobs to its mates. It is majority full of self serving bad people who make bad decisions. There is so much underhanded dealings going on around unions and the labor party.

What I personally think is after this upcoming Queensland style demolition of labor, the broom through labor, the faceless men will hopefully lose any power they have and the party is no longer beholden to 1 or 2 men at the top who are more interested in looking after their mates then the country.

and to think I used to be the most staunch labor supporter ever. I hate the party now.
02:58pm 08/06/13 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4503 posts
I wonder if he's gearing up to make his own party and split from labor?
11:27pm 08/06/13 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4680 posts
I wonder if he's gearing up to make his own party and split from labor?
he'd get blocked by labour in parlament and essentially become ineffective. they'd just elect someone to vote against what ever he is voting for, essentially marginalizing his constitutes voices.

Would certainly make politics much more interesting though.
12:38am 09/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10311 posts
There will be Blood

02:28pm 09/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10312 posts
Andrew Bolt was contacted by someone who witnessed The Messiahs visit to the Shopping Center and all was not as it seemed...

BTW...just spoke to mate who’s daughter works as a hairdresser at Corio Village. She said that Friday was a circus, totally scripted from start to finish...a bus load of Labor supporters arrived a half an hour before Kev and his entourage.

All the TV was shot outside John Eren’s (local state member) megazine floor office with his staff and the bus people. My mates daughter reckons Kev was exposed to the general public for less than a couple minutes, always surrounded by the ‘bus people’. She also noted that the comments from the women in the chairs in her salon when Kev wandered past her shop was not what we seen on the TV Friday night.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/did_kevin_rudd_con_the_media_with_his_triumphant_tour/

Anyone watch House Of Cards with Kevin Spacey ?
Rudd reminds me of that character.
08:39pm 09/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20021 posts
No way. Rudd is the ultimate media whore. Spacey's character knows the importance of discretion. I will actually break my rule and watch QANDA on Monday night because Mark Latham is on. That guy figured out finally just how toxic the ALP is. It only took a rise to the leadership and failed PM campaign to figure it out.

Graham Richardson put it well today: ALP are in the 5 steps of grieving, currently at Step 3 - bargaining. Even though they are doomed they think they can still at this late stage make some pact with the Devil (Rudd). After squashing him 3 times now why would they have him back? it's the irrational desperate behaviour of a party which is looking over a ledge.
08:47pm 09/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3732 posts
10:18pm 09/06/13 Permalink
kr0wb4r
Brisbane, Queensland
1228 posts
The funny thing is, is that I could watch that whole video Vash and still prefer him as PM over the clusterf*** that is the current Labor federal government.
05:06pm 10/06/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1616 posts
That's not funny, that's sad.
05:08pm 10/06/13 Permalink
kr0wb4r
Brisbane, Queensland
1229 posts
Indeed
05:17pm 10/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14013 posts
Abbot is a complete f*****g porkchop. infi will be along soon to post how awesome he really is, but Keating is right, he really is a nutbag political figure ... who is about to be PM and it does my head in over and over when I think about that.

Its gobsmacking that the ALP is unable to muster anything like a viable choice to an Abbott-led Coalition Government.

What a truly s*** political landscape.
05:43pm 10/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20022 posts
Abbott really is awesome.
05:49pm 10/06/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1617 posts
bahahaha well played infi
05:55pm 10/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14014 posts
bahahaha well played infi

Don't I get credit for setting up the play? :(
05:56pm 10/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6383 posts
People are voting for the party not the leader so much this election.

I actually hate Swan more than Juliar. That smug c*** thinks he can fool everyone and make out he gives a s*** about working aussies while he reams them in the ar$e.

He isn't a Treasurers a******* and he knows it.

Mind you I live in his electorate and ironically he always been a fairly good local memeber.

A clear case of being promoted above your station.
06:02pm 10/06/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2364 posts
I noticed the NBN is getting rushed through in Swannie's electorate. That might sway a few votes.
07:11pm 10/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10313 posts
Mark Latham on Q&A soon.
might be funny.
09:20pm 10/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20023 posts
Yeah it will be worth a watch.
09:26pm 10/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3733 posts
As bad as Labor is, alot of it is media hype and unwarranted.

Scariest thing though is how much power Abbott will have with this amount of swing. Dark times ahead.
09:31pm 10/06/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1619 posts
Don't I get credit for setting up the play? :(


You do, you do. If there's one thing everyone can come together for, it's good schtick.
11:43pm 10/06/13 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3956 posts
The best thing about having a huge, over hanging gut and smallish hips is that when I get an erection I can lift my gut up and pit the tip of my c*** in the flap. When sitting at a certain angle I can thrust my hips and dang does it surely does feel good. Even better on a hot summers day when the sweat and pus from my unwashed folds of skin mingle into a realistic lubrication. Sometimes I don't wipe my seed away and the next time, oh my, it feels like I imagine a woman to feel like.
11:57pm 10/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22870 posts
haha to whoever found mental's account still signed in, bravo.
12:11am 11/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35802 posts
Abbot is a complete f*****g porkchop. infi will be along soon to post how awesome he really is, but Keating is right, he really is a nutbag political figure ... who is about to be PM and it does my head in over and over when I think about that.

Its gobsmacking that the ALP is unable to muster anything like a viable choice to an Abbott-led Coalition Government.

What a truly s*** political landscape.
04:54am 11/06/13 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2993 posts
Andrew Bolt


Stopped reading Faceman's post at this point
08:43am 11/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6082 posts
Old mate had a pretty good show on Q&A. Just goes to show how crazy the modern ALP has become when they make Mark Latham look sane by comparison.
01:17pm 11/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35804 posts
yer, whats going on with alp certainly isnt a good look. they've f***ed this one up royally.
01:33pm 11/06/13 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3957 posts
Lol, sorry, was actually me, premature ctrl-v to the wrong tab, friends facebook was left signed in on my guest comp.
01:37pm 11/06/13 Permalink
taggs
6179 posts
Hoggy's current favourite word: porkchop.
04:46pm 11/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10320 posts
Gillards played the gender card...yet again.
We should all vote Labor because the Coalition has male ministers (apart from Bishop)

and she also played the Abortion card.

Is there anyone in Australia that believes shes losing in the Polls because Tony Abbott doesn't like Women ?
even though hes married, got 3 daughters and his chief of staff is a Woman and his Deputy is a Woman.
Although a I guess Labor has a Woman as a Deputy too.


10:44pm 11/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22887 posts
I guess everyones seen the recent institutionalized misogyny that has come out of the LNP today. I won't bother linking to it, but the real funny thing is that Tony Abbott has spoken against it. Remember Tony Abbott is the guy who said these things -

The problem with the Australian practice of abortion is that an objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother’s convenience.

I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons

I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both they both need to be moderated, so to speak.

Abortion is the easy way out. It’s hardly surprising that people should choose the most convenient exit from awkward situations.

It would be folly to expect that women would ever approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, their abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons

While I think men and women are equal, they are also different and I think it's inevitable and I don't think it's a bad thing at all that we always have, say, more women doing things like physiotherapy and an enormous number of women simply doing housework

I want to make it clear that I do not judge or condemn any woman who has had an abortion, but every abortion is a tragedy and up to 100,000 abortions a year is this generation's legacy of unutterable shame.
http://i.imgur.com/bj48QEv.gif
04:59pm 12/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20028 posts
Abortion is funded by medicare, it was funded by medicare whilst Tony Abbott was health minister. So if he was to impose his moral code on Australians he had ample opportunity to do it. It is not government's role to make moral judgments about personal choices.

Abortion is not simply a medical procedure like removing a wart or ingrown toenail and that is simply the point Tony is making. I am sure anyone (including the women undergoing abortions) would have to agree that having an abortion is a regrettable and emotional experience that is preferably avoided.

Tony Abbott did not make the remarks you are alluding to (it was a rehashing of the old Julia Gillard KFC joke about the "red box") and Labor have been involved in similar incidents where idiots within the party make crude jokes where Ministers have been in attendance.

What I actually think is in poor taste is trying to connect a sexist renegade remark to Tony Abbott and a party's policy stance on abortion. It's weak politics for the Prime Minister to keep harping on about Tony's "misogyny" when he has a female chief of staff and a female deputy.

I guess really that's all Gillard has left, since she has failed on all other accounts... I wonder if Kevin would take the misogyny line (hang on, he never did when he was already PM), or is she the only politician in Australia who thinks anyone actually believes it.
05:16pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22888 posts
Ahh yes, the old he can't be racist he has black friends retooled to he can't be a misogynist he has female staff. I could quote only one of those statements and I'd have all the proof I need that Abbott is a misogynist. Those are statements he made on the public record... imagine what he actually thinks?

But of course this matters nothing to his followers. Why would it when one of his policies (you know the one) is solely targeted towards the xenophobic?

I am sure anyone (including the women undergoing abortions) would have to agree that having an abortion is a regrettable and emotional experience that is preferably avoided.
I am sure a reasonable person would think that. Not Tony Abbott though!

Abortion is the easy way out. It’s hardly surprising that people should choose the most convenient exit from awkward situations.
I am getting all these quotes from here and they are all sourced on that handy website.
05:31pm 12/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14021 posts
I am sure anyone (including the women undergoing abortions) would have to agree that having an abortion is a regrettable and emotional experience that is preferably avoided.

Abortion is the easy way out. It’s hardly surprising that people should choose the most convenient exit from awkward situations.

F*****g ouch.
Hoggy's current favourite word: porkchop.

Heh my Steam handle was Lord Porkchop for a few weeks, you may have a point ;)
05:36pm 12/06/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6905 posts
Abortion is funded by medicare, it was funded by medicare whilst Tony Abbott was health minister. So if he was to impose his moral code on Australians he had ample opportunity to do it.
I guess you forgot about this http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/mps-strip-abbott-of-ru486-veto/2006/02/16/1140037811387.html
05:58pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
257 posts
Gillard always brings up the fake "misogyny" game whenever Rudd starts picking up pace or when she has another policy failure. She thinks she can scream "OMG MISOGYNY" and it will work.

It's like watching a very bad comedy show. She has become a running joke, that's probably why they thought it would be a good idea to make fun of her on their menu.
06:16pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
902 posts
I guess you forgot about this


A right to an abortion at state expense is not a right to an abortion by your preferred means. RU486 as an example of misogyny is piss poor.
06:26pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22891 posts
That was a separate thing to his misogyny though. The way the article reads makes it sound as though he wanted to ban the drug completely, not block it from government subsidy. If that's the case then infi's claim that he doesn't apply his moral code on people is clearly false.

And even if that isn't the case, he still applies his moral code in his opposition to same-sex marriage.
06:32pm 12/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20029 posts
So dies Gillard fpot.
06:43pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
903 posts
Yeah unless there are genuine medical reasons for the ban. Equating denial of one method of abortion, or a lack of subsidy, with misogyny is straw-manning pure and simple.

Presumably you oppose the use of the coat hanger technique, or the forced technique.

A right to an abortion is not a right to do it however you want.
06:44pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22893 posts
So dies Gillard fpot.
And that makes her a c*** as well. I guess you brought that up under the mistaken assumption that I am some sort of ardent Gillard supporter?

Yeah unless there are genuine medical reasons for the ban.
Yeah but what would he know about that? Again I am just going by the article posted but it said after it passed the vote it went into the hands of medical experts at the Therapeutic Goods Administration who I think would be a better choice to determine if it was dangerous or not then old science fearing Abbott. Just having a brief check of the drug's wiki page doesn't reveal anything alarming enough to stop it from even being considered. I think it's a pretty clear cut case of Abbott applying his moral code to the public and you should all get used to it. Get your bibles ready.

And again, no-one brought up this abortion drug misogyny link except you. Mantorok was simply pointing out a case of Abbott pushing his moral code on the public.

Presumably you oppose the use of the coat hanger technique, or the forced technique.
What was that you were saying about strawmans?
07:00pm 12/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6087 posts
what f*****g brainiac would put "Julia Gillard Kentucky Fried Quail" in writing on a dinner menu!?
07:04pm 12/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10326 posts

it was written by someone as a joke but was not used at the dinner.
Mal Brough is a bit of a problem but not as bad as his opponent Slipper.
What did he call women ?


07:49pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
904 posts
Abbott was the health minister at the time fpot. He will have been making decisions on medical efficacy in consultation, cause that's what health ministers do, there may well have been moral objection to it as well, but it was left to the ministers discretion, and if he couldn't see a strong case for changing the law well then he couldn't.

If he was forcing his moral code on people as the minister why didn't he move to retract subsided abortions, or generally make it harder. Letting the status quo run hardly strong evidence of rampant science fearing hatred of women/abortion.

Just because people want access to something doesn't mean that its a violation of rights nor a case of forcing your moral code, in refusing to alter the status quo of an illegal drug.

But saying that in a conscience vote Abbott was forcing his moral code on someone is boarder line retarded. That's what a conscience vote is. If he was so was everyone else.
07:54pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22899 posts
Yeah but you can look at a conscience vote in two ways. It can be voting for what you think is good for society from an objective viewpoint (I will vote yes for this drug because if it is safe it's a much easier and less invasive option for women who want abortions) or it can be a vote for what you think is best for society from a subjective viewpoint (I will vote no for this drug because sexual promiscuity is a bad thing and abortions are the easy way out). Now judging by quotes I have read from Abbott and judging by his public attitude I am going to say he went with the latter there. If he thought it was dangerous then what was the harm of putting it into the hands of experts to determine whether it is dangerous or not? The reason he voted against it was because of a moral objection in my opinion. If there is any evidence this isn't the case I'd like to see it.

If he was forcing his moral code on people as the minister why didn't he move to retract subsided abortions, or generally make it harder. Letting the status quo run hardly strong evidence of rampant science fearing hatred of women/abortion.
If I had to guess I'd say because it is easier to keep things the same then it is to make changes. If he can enforce his moral code by blocking a drug then he will, but it might be too difficult or even impossible for him to change other things like subsidised abortions.
08:27pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
905 posts
No I don't think you can make that distinction actually fpot. A conscience vote is a vote based on your values and nothing more.

Whats good for society has no objective measure. It's a value statement. Therefore if you want to give women a safe and un-intrusive option for abortion, that's great but it's still forcing your moral code on people, based on an idea of what you feel society should be.

His actions as minister don't match up to someone who is forcing his moral code on people. It only gets bought up because of his religious background. Just because he is religious doesn't mean that is categorically unable to un-entangle his religous convictions from his ministerial responsibilities.

The two health ministers before him didn't legalise it, but nobody is out there crying anti-abortion ideologue on them.
08:54pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22902 posts
Did those two health ministers have quotes attributed to them calling abortion shameful and the easy way out? Because Abbott did and that's why I think people are singling him out in this case. I know it's why I am.

It's possible for people to have good value and bad values. I think someone voting yes for the pill for the reasons I stated above are good. I think someone voting no for the reasons above which is what I believe Abbott did is bad. I was wrong in saying the pill is objectively good for society, but if it works as intended then is it fair to say that will objectively be a easier and less invasive option for women who want abortions? I think so and I see this as a good thing.

It is going to take something pretty compelling to make me change my mind that on this particular case with the abortion drug that Abbott wasn't applying his own morals to the public. Some report he read that indicated that there was a real danger with the drug that might not get picked up by the organisation entrusted with determining its safety, or some rogue element in the government who wanted to pass the drug through for some nefarious purpose. Because I just don't see any other reason he said no to it.
09:03pm 12/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10327 posts
No Leader calls for a conscience vote without already knowing the outcome.

09:22pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
906 posts
Well that's fine if you think that is why he didn't want to do it. But I think your stretching the facts too thin in suggesting that he was acting to implement his own moral code regardless.

The only relevant time was his as health minister because in a conscience vote he is of course going to go with his moral code, that is the point of a conscience vote.

Michael Wooldridge is a trained doctor and didn't see a compelling medical case for legalising it at his discretion. If you want to engage in psycho-analysis of the minister that is your call, but his actions aren't solely explainable by the ideologue version, nor are they even particularly consistent with that explanation.

You need some hard evidence to suggest that he wasn't applying his moral code by refusing to make abortion easier, but you are willing to assume that more perfectly realising his code, and making it harder, was just too hard in your last post. So he is a crazed anti-science god botherer who is also lazy?

I think the facts are perfectly explainable by not seeing a compelling reason to change the status quo one way or the other. The fact that the preceding ministers didn't either would lend weight to that.
09:29pm 12/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22903 posts
Reading Michael Wooldridge's wiki page makes him sound shady as f***. He is on the board of the Waubra Foundation, an anti-wind energy group who thinks that wind turbines cause ill-health lols. But that's beside the point.

I don't think he is lazy, I think he is pragmatic like all politicians. So he is a crazed anti-science god botherer who is pragmatic. I reckon that's a more dangerous combo than one who is lazy.

I'll admit that all I am basing my opinion of this from quotes he has made about abortion and his religious leanings. To be honest I haven't thought a whole lot about it, the first I ever heard about this drug and it's refusal by him was tonight when it was linked in this thread. The only way anyone will know the truth is if we invent some sort of mind reading device or a politician answers a question honestly. Both of those things are equally unlikely.
09:44pm 12/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20030 posts
If he thought it was dangerous then what was the harm of putting it into the hands of experts to determine whether it is dangerous or not?


that's how we got a carbon tax
10:23pm 12/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20031 posts
double post
10:28pm 12/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2712 posts
Stellar point infi.

The carbon tax proves without a doubt that in the future it would be much better for politicians to only make uninformed and personally biased or politically influenced decisions instead of consulting experts in related fields.
11:07pm 12/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
258 posts
Just because someone is labeled an "expert" doesn't mean they can't make mistakes or give the wrong advice. People seem to hold the opinion that once you are called an "expert" whatever you say is as solid as stone.

The carbon tax is a perfect example as infi pointed.
11:42am 13/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14026 posts
Has Tony ever reconciled his pro-carbon tax comments with his current end of the world view on it?
12:42pm 13/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6088 posts
Hey look, a voter with a long memory. If we could just have a moment of your time, look into this thing here please...

http://www.beforethetrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/men-in-black-neuralizer.jpg
12:52pm 13/06/13 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4926 posts
it was written by someone as a joke but was not used at the dinner.
Faceman chooses to believe this?
03:40pm 13/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2713 posts
Just because someone is labeled an "expert" doesn't mean they can't make mistakes or give the wrong advice. People seem to hold the opinion that once you are called an "expert" whatever you say is as solid as stone. The carbon tax is a perfect example as infi pointed.

To me the point infi appeared to be making was that it's a sensible idea to just not consult experts at all because carbon tax.

No one is saying you should do absolutely everything experts say you should do, but to make important decisions without first properly consulting people whose lives are actually dedicated to understanding the particular topic/field is just silly.
07:50pm 13/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10329 posts
oh no Tims been outed.
hes not gay he just likes hair.
10:38pm 13/06/13 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
115 posts
I think Tony is against abortion as a convenience, ie, just doing it because you don't want to be pregnant anymore. I don't think it's a right. If it is a right, the male partner who donated 50% of the genetics should have equal say, or, the male partner should be able to insist an abortion take place.

I think if confronted by a rape victim, Tony would be for abortion in that case.

I just don't think he thinks it's a solution for unsafe sex or downright negligence. Rather than offering free abortions, why not offer free condoms and sex ed?
12:37pm 14/06/13 Permalink
taggs
6180 posts
And there goes the thread.
01:41pm 14/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22917 posts
If even I have realised this guy just trolls for negative attention surely everyone else has. Pretty safe to just ignore it.
01:48pm 14/06/13 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
116 posts
Nice work, Jason. What exactly did I say was wrong?
02:10pm 14/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22919 posts
yawn
02:16pm 14/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
261 posts
Abortion is used as an easy way out for girls who don't practice proper safe sex. I know many girls who have unprotected sex and have the attitude "Well ill just get an abortion if i do get preg"
02:43pm 14/06/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10040 posts
Abortion is used as an easy way out for girls who don't practice proper safe sex. I know many girls who have unprotected sex and have the attitude "Well ill just get an abortion if i do get preg"

Friday Fun Fact.

A girl can't get "preg" by herself.
03:32pm 14/06/13 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
117 posts
Friday Fun Fact.

A girl can't get "preg" by herself.


So if the male is equally responsible, ie at fault, shouldn't he have equal say in whether or not an abortion occurs? It's getting technical but I think a zygote is equally the property of both partners.

Abortion is used as an easy way out for girls who don't practice proper safe sex. I know many girls who have unprotected sex and have the attitude "Well ill just get an abortion if i do get preg"


No, but people like Jason think that this kind of murderous service should be available on tap.
04:20pm 14/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3722 posts
No, but people like Jason think that this kind of murderous service should be available on tap.


lets bring up a state issue in a thread about federal politics. GG.
04:41pm 14/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
907 posts
I'd just like to say at this point that, any support for Tony Abbott's stance on abortion implied by my posts is purely coincidental. Abortion is murder in the same way stepping on ants or taking a s*** is.
05:00pm 14/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20037 posts
" Kevin Rudd: rebooted ?"
05:12pm 14/06/13 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
118 posts
That it's murder is a ridiculous view. It's better to have an abortion than to live a life with an unwanted child.

It shouldn't be extra-contraception.

But you can't punish a girl for being a f***wit.

I think it's a bit sexist however that it's seen as a woman's 'right.'

A baby is the product of two people.

Ie.. you sleep with some b****.. she gets pregnant and because she's insane, want's to keep the baby. You should be able to get a court ordered abortion or something.

Vice versa, she wants to get an abortion, you want to keep it.

I dunno.. that the female has complete control over it kinda isn't balanced/
05:22pm 14/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
22920 posts
No, but people like Jason think that this kind of murderous service should be available on tap.

That it's murder is a ridiculous view.
heh
05:44pm 14/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10330 posts
Prolly should do Abortion in another Thread.

Since its not even an issue in the Election anyway.

06:27pm 14/06/13 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
119 posts
Well Julia cleverly used menugate to bring men vs women onto the main agenda. Tony Abbot has made comments about abortion and he is the opposition leader. Juila needs votes and she is desparate to get them so she's pulling the female card. Kevin knows this and is hedging his bets and aiming for leadership again.

As you can see it's totally related to the thread.
06:38pm 14/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10332 posts
Abortion is a State regulated health issue in Australia.
Libs have no policy to change it and no Liberal state governments have made any changes.

06:57pm 14/06/13 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1907 posts
knowing grubby politicians, her men in blue ties missandrist speech just happened to coincide a day later with a menu that was just waiting patiently for the right moment to be leaked to the media and all hell breaks loose.

what about the remarks made about kevin rudd on the same menu? **silence**

09:43pm 14/06/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1634 posts
what about the remarks made about kevin rudd on the same menu? **silence**


They just called him "a Goose". That has nothing to do with Rudd's gender.
09:42am 15/06/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
999 posts
12:36pm 19/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14048 posts
hahahaha that's awesome
“F*** them. F*** the lot of them. They deserve Abbott, those f*****g hyper-critical sheep. I mean seriously, he hasn’t even got a platform to run on; all he’s done is criticise every single f*****g move we make and then failed to meet us halfway when we try to actually govern the country for you f***wits. I give up. Enjoy your dial-up internet and corporate overlords. I’m moving to New Zealand.”

Gillard’s press team later issued a correction to this statement, clarifying Ms Gillard had actually mean to say, “No”.
01:18pm 19/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10371 posts
ITS ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

9am tomorrow morning
Rudd has the numbers apparently.


BREAKING NEWS: A PETITION is being circulated among Labor MPs to gather support for a fresh leadership challenge against Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

The petition needs to attain 35 signatures for a special meeting of the Labor caucus to be called.

If the numbers are reached, it is up to the caucus secretary, Labor backbencher Chris Hayes, to decide when a meeting will occur.

Mr Rudd is yet to confirm these reports. Sky News reports that a ballot is being planned for 9am tomorrow morning.

Senior Rudd supporters said this morning they were confident the former PM had the numbers to seize the leadership.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/it8217s-on-labor-spill-petition-circulated-among-mps-reports-leadership-ballot-called/story-fncynjr2-1226670120892#ixzz2XHvMfQSK
01:09pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10372 posts
Bill shorten is backing Rudd.

its all over, she'll be stepping down this afternoon.
01:19pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7923 posts
What do people reckon would happen to ALPs approval/likeliness to win the next election if there was a spill tomorrow and Rudd is the new leader? Instant 5 point bump?
01:20pm 26/06/13 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2090 posts
f*** me i hate australian politics
01:29pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4242 posts
let's go kruddler
01:32pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13854 posts
I wonder if it is too late.

When Rudd gets back in (surely he will this time) he will have a Honeymoon period, will it extend long enough and be powerful enough to win the election? I would have though the time to change leaders was 6 months ago when Abbott was looking as foolish as ever. Now they have to manage to convince people that the Labor government is stabilized and a happy party in only a few short months..
01:35pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10373 posts
Gillard is about enter question time in parliament. 2pm
01:53pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20076 posts
Can't see it happening. It's just the crazy and desperate reaches of Labor MPs staring imminent defeat in the face. They are at stage 3 of dealing with grief and loss: bargaining.

1. Rudd is overseas.
2. Why would Rudd accept the leadership of a party destined for at least 2 terms in Oppossition?

The labor MPs selfishly want Rudd to try and save their own necks from Centrelink but Rudd isn't that dumb. Rudd enjoys all the attention but he ain't stupid.
02:22pm 26/06/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1397 posts
Can't see it happening. It's just the crazy and desperate reaches of Labor MPs staring imminent defeat in the face. They are at stage 3 of dealing with grief and loss: bargaining.1. Rudd is overseas.2. Why would Rudd accept the leadership of a party destined for at least 2 terms in Oppossition?The labor MPs selfishly want Rudd to try and save their own necks from Centrelink but Rudd isn't that dumb. Rudd enjoys all the attention but he ain't stupid.


+1

but PM pension is better than MP pension.. so... f*** it right..
02:37pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
269 posts
There is synchronised swimming and now we have synchronised sinking, courtesy of the two men whose electorates delivered the highest anti-Labor vote in the nation yet chose to support the rolling debacle known as the Gillard government and the Rudd exile.

And now they are weaseling away quitting parliament.
02:54pm 26/06/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11009 posts
No mention of a leadership challenge, just Abbott going on about faceless men. Most of it was the opposition crying about the carbon tax.

Sophie Mirabella is retarded.
02:57pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10374 posts
Replacing an Opposition Leader is not the same as replacing a sitting PM.
Rudd wants what was stolen from him.
He will become PM again even if he loses the Election, he will have returned as a PM even if its just a couple of months.

He is an exceptional campaigner, it would be pretty tough to win it from here but who would write off Rudd completely ?
Hes very popular with the common people and Australians love an underdog.

I dunno whats going on now, it seems Rudd has cancelled his trip to china and there will be a caucus meeting tomoroow but so far only 1 ALP member has admitted seeing the petition yet its all over the Media that Rudd already has the numbers, which could be a ploy to pressure fence-sitters.

QLD to win tonight
and another QLD tomorrow morning
odds plz Waterhouse ?


03:09pm 26/06/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18304 posts
well facey has called it

so that means it probably isn't going to happen
03:52pm 26/06/13 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8234 posts
On ABC Insiders on Sunday they were saying that there are constitutional issues with an overthrow of Gillard. The leader of the Labor party is not automatically the Prime Minister. The Labor caucus can choose their leader but that person needs to show the Governor General that they have the confidence of the lower house, or something, to be Prime Minister and they may not be able to do that with only two sitting days' left and the independents not on board.
03:54pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35916 posts
GAME ON MOLES

S*** JUST GOT REAL.

tony will be s***ting himself.
04:03pm 26/06/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11010 posts
Gillard is talking about tonight's leadership ballot now on CH9.
04:20pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6120 posts
They better sort it out before the SOO starts, f***ed if I'm going to change the channel and interrupt the footy for Labor navel gazing.
04:30pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10375 posts
wtf ?
she has no right to call for something liket aht
WHAT IS THIS WWE ?

ITS AN I QUIT MATCH

04:32pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
916 posts
Ah F*** me dead.

Gillard is right about one thing,

Who ever loses this should resign from parliament.
04:37pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6121 posts
They should both resign from parliament and give Labor a chance to regroup and rebuild to be honest, they're both too politically damaged. It doesn't matter whether KR of JG wins because with either of them there the dysfunction is sure to continue.
04:44pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35917 posts
yer, thats not working so well for qld labor :(
04:48pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3740 posts
I'm not sure Rudd is going to risk going for this Ballot. But still keen to see what happens
04:50pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
270 posts
GAME ON FOR 7PM, SHE SAYS SHE WILL QUIT IF SHE LOSES!

DITCH THE WITCHHHHHHHHHH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ4oUYW2xZo THE SMEAR ADS HAVE BEEN ACTIVATED, FOR THE HOARDEEEEEEEEEE
04:57pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6122 posts
This Rudd bloke sounds like a real a*******. I wonder if he's at all related to our mate Kevin, hero of the shopping centre doorstop.
05:05pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35918 posts
are you seeing the same awesome rudd bloke i am?

hes been doing everything for his party as required.
05:19pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20077 posts
last week he says "under no circumstances". lol what a joke.
05:24pm 26/06/13 Permalink
d^
Melbourne, Victoria
1308 posts
This should be interesting.
05:24pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35919 posts
nervous bro? (you should be)

your bet? gawn.
your government? highly likely gawn.
your salty tears? delicious.
05:25pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6123 posts
are you seeing the same awesome rudd bloke i am?

hes been doing everything for his party as required.


Yep that's him, lovable Kevin who gets mobbed by fans on the hustings and bends over backwards for his fellow backbenchers, selflessly campaigning in their seats with them.

He'll definitely have a ministerial place or two on the new Rudd front bench with all the dedication to the party he's been showing.
05:25pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3741 posts
I wonder if the numbers will shift enough in Rudd's favor.. Wasn't good last year.
05:28pm 26/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11344 posts
GO KEVIN!!!
05:30pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35920 posts
he's got the numbers.

i do feel a bit sorry for simon crean though;
05:35pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13855 posts
Its ON, Gillard or Rudd, one of them is quitting politics. They are both outright liars though, so do you really think either one would quit politics if they lost.

Gillard is in a Win-Win position. If she wins she remains and collects the PM pension for the rest of her life, if she looses she still collects the PM pension for the rest of her life...
05:40pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
3015 posts
Hold me QGL, I'm shaking
05:42pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10376 posts
Sky news is calling it for Rudd.
Its over.

05:45pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35921 posts
zak, i got you bro, come here big fella.
05:45pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3742 posts
Omg is this actually happening... Woooo
05:48pm 26/06/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1658 posts
Does anyone else get the impression that all this will accomplish is the mutual destruction of both Rudd and Gillard, to the complete detriment of the ALP?

Is saving a few seats in the short term REALLY worth it?
06:13pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3743 posts
Yes.. Because a powerful Abbott, is a scary situation indeed.
06:17pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20078 posts
wait spook, do you think rudd could win the next election? haha

he'll just be a seatwarmer for shorten, weeeeeeee
06:21pm 26/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11346 posts
infi your predictions today haven't been that good

just sayin

you said he wasn't stupid enough to contest but you were wrong he totally is!!!
06:26pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35922 posts
hes a chance against tony.

everyone recognises tony as a half wit.

the people love krudd.
06:28pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20079 posts
thermite it has got me completely stumped. rudd is toxic. half the party hates his guts. there are reels of propaganda against rudd for the election. rudd is like that crazy girlfriend who doesn't know how to let go.
06:33pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13856 posts
Infi, the polls are quite clear. If the current Government makes it to the election they WILL lose.

Putting Rudd in will maybe, just maybe, get them back in the game. Simple as that.


Also LOL@ picture on ABC news.
06:38pm 26/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2366 posts
rudd is like that crazy girlfriend who doesn't know how to let go


And Abbott is like that 1950s weirdo 'worst kept family secret' cousin born nine months after your uncle went to Cairns with his sister for a 'holiday'.
06:39pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3744 posts
But the crazy girlfriend is very good in bed
06:50pm 26/06/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1400 posts
streaming if anyone is keen

07:11pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13858 posts
Remember guys, these pollies have the 'Honourable' title..
07:13pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9513 posts
The messiah will bring it all back full swing, don't worry about that.
07:16pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20080 posts
Rudd has won.
07:21pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3745 posts
not confirmed. news.com.au doesnt count
07:23pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13859 posts
Tweet by some ABC guys says Gillard camp doesn't have the numbers to win.
07:23pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20081 posts
check twitter
07:24pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13860 posts
Tweets are all saying Gillard is gone.
07:24pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35923 posts
double bonus, swann will go also
07:25pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13861 posts
Ouch Infi, 2 fail predictions, care to make a third about who will win the election ;P
07:25pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3746 posts
What are you following on twitter?
07:26pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35924 posts
its like infi doesnt know anything about politics.
07:26pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13862 posts
Spook, our favourite communications minister may go too... refuses to work with Rudd (well said that anyway..)
07:29pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4511 posts
Hurray up and tell us who f*****g won and then get to the f*****g game.
07:32pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13863 posts
K-man may be the new G-Man hehehe
07:36pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35926 posts
Spook, our favourite communications minister may go too... refuses to work with Rudd (well said that anyway..)


yer antohet win

sorry for my typing, my erection keeps getting in the raod
07:37pm 26/06/13 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
21149 posts
Kruddler the new PM
07:38pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20082 posts
I just didn't realise how desperate and f***ed up the ALP is.
07:40pm 26/06/13 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4646 posts
I just didn't realise how desperate and f***ed up the ALP is.


Have you been in a Coma?
07:41pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
271 posts
Infi made a rookie mistake, especially as a liberal party member. He thought Labor couldn't be that STUPID to put rudd back in. He thought it just wouldn't be logical, but that's where he made the mistake.

Labor and Labor supporters aren't logical. They don't use logic in their politics whether it be their policies or deciding their leader.

They think that aussie voters are mugs and will vote for their incompetent government just because they changed the leader.

Infi should have known better. I, for one, told him this would happen.
07:42pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3747 posts
You'll find Abbott is more desperate.

I cant believe ABC just put that anti Labor youtube clip on TV. Put on the Abbott crazy s*** video then
07:47pm 26/06/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11011 posts
Labor and Labor supporters aren't logical. They don't use logic in their politics whether it be their policies or deciding their leader.


Yeah because climate change denial is deftly logical.
07:49pm 26/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11347 posts
Rudd wins 57 to 45
07:53pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6124 posts
07:54pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9514 posts
Kruddy is bacccck!
07:55pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
917 posts
Nice one Dazhel,
07:56pm 26/06/13 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17150 posts
close ballot.
07:56pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3748 posts
That was close? Abbott got in by 1 vote.
08:00pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4243 posts
queenslanderrrr
08:08pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35927 posts
simon crean hot favourite for deputy leader!!!!!
08:09pm 26/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2763 posts
I just didn't realise how desperate and f***ed up the ALP is.

Out of interest, if you think this is the desperate and f***ed up move, what would you have called them just sitting around and patiently waiting to be destroyed in the election?

If you were the Labor party, what would you have done?
08:16pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
918 posts
Conroy gone too. YEEEHAAAW
08:19pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20083 posts
Well given Gillard never had clear air because of Kevin's whiteanting she only had one option which was to play the cards she was dealt. How could she possibly get her (s*****) message out? Kev already had two tilts and lost, and yet STILL every second article was about ALP leadership challenges. The backbenchers could have told Rudd to STFU, but they encouraged him.

Like the mad girlfriend who never gives up, Kevin knew that if he hung around long enough sounding desperate and making cooing noises, Caucus one drunk and dangerous night would get desperate enough to f*** him one more time.

It's fascinating that they could execute and then resurrect the same psychopathic failed leader. It's bizarre, I am blown away. Caucus' desperation is only only exceeded by Rudd's narcissism.
08:21pm 26/06/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7611 posts
Are infi and PeterThePossumMan for real in this thread with all the frothing from the mouth, or just trolling by pretending to have extreme party bias and poorly thought-out comments?

Also, who the f*** updates this s*** so quickly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Australia
08:23pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14071 posts
August election (?) just got real. Newspoll a week or two ago had Rudd vs Abbott at 50:50.
08:25pm 26/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3727 posts
August election (?) just got real. Newspoll a week or two ago had Rudd vs Abbott at 50:50.


Yeah, I think Rudd will go for an election ASAP before people remember why he had an approval rating of ~30% when he was knifed.
08:28pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14072 posts
Yeah, I think Rudd will go for an election ASAP before people remember why he had an approval rating of ~30% when he was knifed.

Suspicions confirmed.
08:32pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3749 posts
Never understood why his approval rating was so low. Same as Gillard.
The country is running just fine.
08:34pm 26/06/13 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
184 posts
Conroy gone too. YEEEHAAAW

Mixed feelings. Dude was a s***bag when it came to censorship but he did push the NBN awful hard. Here's hoping the replacement supports it too.
08:37pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4244 posts

Also, who the f*** updates this s*** so quickly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Australia

ha, the edit history is full of "he hasn't been sworn in yet"
08:48pm 26/06/13 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
1266 posts
Im happier now. Might be less of a loss at the election for labor.
08:50pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14073 posts
Mixed feelings. Dude was a s***bag when it came to censorship but he did push the NBN awful hard. Here's hoping the replacement supports it too.

NBN was Rudd policy. It will remain.
08:56pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35928 posts
so its all clear air from here on in!

woot@!
09:02pm 26/06/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3167 posts
Are infi and PeterThePossumMan for real in this thread with all the frothing from the mouth, or just trolling by pretending to have extreme party bias and poorly thought-out comments?
PeterThePossumMan is DoctorMoist, SheerObesity, Tdog, Bonertone and whoever else he changes his name to. He's in the habit of using two accounts at a time so he has someone to agree with.

Pretty sure he is a parody account and is never for real. Infi unfortunately probably is for real.
09:05pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35930 posts
infi probably wishes he had a few spoof accounts
09:07pm 26/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6400 posts
* flush *
09:08pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
14476 posts
Love all the talk of buzz-word whiteanting, asif Rudd could have in any way actually manufactured this outcome, and it hasn't all just happened because of the media narrative from all of the coverage trying to spin reality TV type drama out of boring old parliament.

I'd like to think once Rudd settles in with his cabinet and gets policy in order for an election, that coverage can stop speculating on all that kind of BS and focus on policy, but who are we kidding, the mass media looks for anything they think will get them the most eyeballs and earballs, so they'll just find other things to report on while actual policy debate starts on page 3.

Calling it now, if they can't dig more drama out of the ALP camp over the next few weeks (which admittedly is unlikely with all the potential waambulance comments that might be incoming from Swan, Conroy, Garrett etc), they'll start crafting a narrative of unease among the Coalition, and there'll be spill speculation of Turnbull vs Abbott.
09:11pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9515 posts
Infi, what happens if Liberal lose this election? Would you burst into flames from the sheer anger? Also if Liberal do get in and spaghetti hits the fan, can we say "I told you so"?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1011158_400309946753551_1011579312_n.jpg
09:14pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7924 posts
Conroy gone too. YEEEHAAAW

I think we've all glossed over something really important. Expand on this, please? If true, this is far better news than anyone specifically leading Labour.
09:44pm 26/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
272 posts
Are infi and PeterThePossumMan for real in this thread with all the frothing from the mouth, or just trolling by pretending to have extreme party bias and poorly thought-out comments?Also, who the f*** updates this s*** so quickly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Australia


Not trolling at all, nor is my comments poorly thought out. This is a terrible government, there's no denying it and the polls reflect it. Even Labor knows it hence why they are desperately changing leaders to save some of the furniture.

PeterThePossumMan is DoctorMoist, SheerObesity, Tdog, Bonertone and whoever else he changes his name to. He's in the habit of using two accounts at a time so he has someone to agree with. Pretty sure he is a parody account and is never for real. Infi unfortunately probably is for real.


What? I only have one account on these forums which is this one. My name was SheerObesity and then i changed it to my current name. You can do it in your account settings. I'm not sure who all these other people are.
09:45pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7814 posts
Torn between not liking Rudd, not liking Conroy, and not liking Abbott.

I guess it's a 2 out of 3 win for me.
09:58pm 26/06/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11012 posts
We all know you are Door Peter.
09:58pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20084 posts
Ask spook about the bitter pain of electoral loss. It is survivable.
10:07pm 26/06/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3171 posts
What? I only have one account on these forums which is this one. My name was SheerObesity and then i changed it to my current name. You can do it in your account settings. I'm not sure who all these other people are.
Hahaha, you are not fooling anyone.
10:10pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13864 posts
I totally think this was set up. Gillard walked into that Ballot knowing full well she lost it, she called the early ballot making it her decision to challenge leadership, therefore Rudd didn't break his promise..

Also Set Up, why didn't they just do a clean swap?
10:27pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10383 posts
Kevin Rudds press conference is about to begin prolly 15mins away.

Swann Combet Conroy and Emerson have Garret all resigned.



10:35pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4245 posts
later conboy
10:36pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10384 posts
hes speaking now
10:39pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3750 posts
lol all the s***head MPs are resigning. eeexccellent
10:45pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2595 posts
10:52pm 26/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3728 posts
haha, he is wearing a blue tie
10:53pm 26/06/13 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8675 posts
10:57pm 26/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10385 posts
That anti-labor ad is BRUTAL

I think the Coalition need to be careful.
The public like Rudd they dislike what Labor was under Gillard.
The public don't care about the opinions of Politicians on other Politicians.
the Coalition should stick to attacking Labor policy and not focus too much on Rudd.
11:06pm 26/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11349 posts
11:17pm 26/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2764 posts
the Coalition should stick to attacking Labor policy and not focus too much on Rudd.

This attitude is the worst thing about politics, people focus on pointing out what's wrong with the opposition rather than focusing on what's right about themselves. There's just this completely overarching theme of combativeness and posturing where politics/government should really in essence be about working together to make a better country.

I don't want to hear what's wrong with Labor's policies, I want to hear what's right with the Liberals' proposed policies.
11:18pm 26/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20085 posts
At least Julia managed to concede defeat without crying (unlike Rudd). I'll give her that much.
11:39pm 26/06/13 Permalink
Viper119
UK
2097 posts
omgwtfbbq.
12:24am 27/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
273 posts
It's the same incompetent bad government and same incompetent party.

It's so crap how bogans will vote Labor again despite all the crap they have done just because it has a new leader. HURR DURRRRR. The media has created this obsession with the leaders where everything is focused on the leaders and people actually believe all the parties decisions and policies are decided by the leader which is just totally incorrect.


Boganization of politics.
01:53am 27/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4246 posts
fair shake of the sauce bottle

by all accounts Rudd as PM pretty much was the decision maker, it's how he apparently alienated a lot of his colleagues
03:15am 27/06/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2166 posts
Jesus, you wake up and find out that that d******* is PM again? WTF?

Hit the whole bunch of them on the head.
04:00am 27/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2765 posts
It's so crap how bogans will vote Labor again despite all the crap they have done just because it has a new leader. HURR DURRRRR. The media has created this obsession with the leaders where everything is focused on the leaders and people actually believe all the parties decisions and policies are decided by the leader which is just totally incorrect.

It always makes me laugh to hear people who I know would never change the party they vote for complaining about how other people do the same thing.
04:56am 27/06/13 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3266 posts
Hahaha back we go, good on him. Dish served cold.
06:47am 27/06/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1185 posts
It's not just a simple leadership change though, what happens now with gay marriage / refugee's etc. Could be a some distinct policy differences that we now get to vote for at the next election. Will be interesting.
07:22am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2962 posts
I'm just glad we can finally move away from the constant articles and speculation about the challenge of the ALP leadership and to something of more substance - like, heck, the policies of both parties.

I'm hoping a few things change:

1) We see some policy changes from the ALP to more clearly define what the ALP stands for over the LNP
2) Tony Abbott actually has to come out of hiding now
3) Some actual policies from the LNP.

The LNP have had it waaaay too easy lately, I think people have forgotten how much of a c*** head Tony Abbott is because of the fact that he hasn't really had to do anything publicly for the last few years. Hopefully now, we will get a bit more of a debate about what's going on, and he will need to show his face again.
08:18am 27/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6401 posts
I'm still in the Tony c******* Abbott camp because I'm voting for the party not the leader.

But I'm afraid my fellow bogans will be basing their poorly considered vote on the party leaders.
08:25am 27/06/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9517 posts
It's the same incompetent bad government and same incompetent party.It's so crap how bogans will vote Labor again despite all the crap they have done just because it has a new leader. HURR DURRRRR. The media has created this obsession with the leaders where everything is focused on the leaders and people actually believe all the parties decisions and policies are decided by the leader which is just totally incorrect.Boganization of politics.
Honestly, how bad of a shape is Australia in compared to other countries? I always had a feeling we were doing quite well, despite many of the public apparently "hating" Julia Gillard.
08:30am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2963 posts
That's a sensible way of looking at thing sLaps...well actually, it would be if the leader of the party were merely a figurehead and had no say or control over how things were run. Unfortunately for us all that is not the case, and Abbott does have great influence over the party policy.

What fantastic policies are you so keen on from the LNP? I guess you can probably pick maybe two or three because that's all the substance we have at the moment.
08:32am 27/06/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20918 posts
Tony Abbot wants to get rid of my sweet, sweet high speed internet access, so f*** him. Rudd has my vote!
08:36am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2964 posts
I'm also glad that we FINALLY have a PM who supports same-sex marriage. I doubt the party position will change, but I mean, at least we don't look like a totally backwards f*****g country now...well, until you get inside then you'll be like WTF :)
08:44am 27/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20086 posts
I think now gay marriage may be the moral challenge of our time - because it is more trendy.
08:47am 27/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6402 posts
I wish they would just pass a bill tomorrow that lets the pinkos marry each other so that we don't have to keep hearing about it all the time ffs.
08:52am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2965 posts
I wish they would just pass a bill tomorrow that lets the pinkos marry each other so that we don't have to keep hearing about it all the time ffs.


I know man, I feel for you, it's really hard to hear about a group facing such overt discrimination day in day out. Feel your pain.
08:56am 27/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14074 posts
Tony Abbot wants to get rid of my sweet, sweet high speed internet access, so f*** him. Rudd has my vote!

Yep ALP has actually firmed for me.

I've always been a Rudd guy, f*** the haters. I quite like the smarmy little s***, certainly more than porkchop Abbott. Who is going to be our PM is a part of every voter's decision, I didn't like Abbott or Gillard but I prefer Rudd to Abbott.

So aside from leadership personalities, we have:

ALP
- No more Joolia Gillard
- No more Swanny
- No more Conroy
- Rudd's back
- NBN firm (one of the OG Rudd policies)
- Gay marriage will pass next term if they gain power
- Slow return to surplus (we're told)

Coalition
- 'Stop the boats'
- Still Abbott. Shoulda axed him for Malcolm a while ago boys, is it too late now?
- No gay marriage reform under porkchop's leadership
- S***** NBN plan
- Fast return to surplus (we're told) by cutting services and savaging programs like the NBN


My main issue aside form the above is the state of the budget.

Neither party has sufficiently explained to me how the structural issues of the budget will be resolved by their policies, Abbott's Newman-style slash and burn can't possibly plug the hole without creating 3rd world core public services for health, infrastructure and education or smashing eligibility for social security.

There's some fluffy waste in Government but not bazillions.

As far as I can see they're all waiting for the dollar to come down ... or revenues for their shiny new communications monopoly to kick in.
08:57am 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35932 posts
ALP
- No more Joolia Gillard
- No more Swanny
- No more Conroy
- Rudd's back
- NBN firm (one of the OG Rudd policies)
- Gay marriage will pass next term if they gain power
- Slow return to surplus (we're told)


stop it hoggy, you are getting me all hot
09:08am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
3016 posts
Don't forget under coalition, likely industrial relations/employment law reform too. If you're an employer you're probably licking your lips. If you are a working stiff, uh oh.
09:30am 27/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6403 posts
'Save the gay whales!'

The economy will be f***ed but poofters can marry each other. SUccess!
09:37am 27/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14075 posts
'Save the gay whales!'

The economy will be f***ed but poofters can marry each other. SUccess!

LOL you're a bigoted little c*** aren't you slaps :)

But lets play this game. Can you elaborate on how the economy will become f***ed (its not f***ed now as far as I know) and how the Coalition will do a better job?
09:42am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2966 posts
Our economy is f***ed? This is the same old argument that all LNP supporters keep wheeling out whenever they actually have to talk about policy. The unicorn is the national animal for Scotland, not Australia. John Howard was not the f*****g messiah. The LNP are not economic gods, and the saviors of all things.

If you want less socialism and more capitalism then go to America.
09:44am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
3018 posts
Don't feed trolls guys. It's scientifically proven to lower life expectancy through stress/rage.
09:46am 27/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2367 posts
Reading social media comments, it's funny how quickly people forget.
When Julia usurped Kevin people were all like "backstabbing b****, poor Kevin" and now he's a "smarmy, smug character" for taking it back.

Personally, I didn't have a major problem with Gillard. It seems like a lot of the tall poppy hate (and it was/is hate) directed at her was simply because she was a woman. Apart from her "bogan voice" I thought she handled herself pretty well. Similarly, I don't have a major problem with the Kruddler. Sure, he's no Keating but side by side with Abbott and it's no contest. Mind you a retarded chimp side by side with Abbott would be no contest, so that's not saying much I guess.

Let's face it, there's not a lot of difference these days between the two parties (at least I don't think there is because Libs can't come up with a policy to save themselves). Abbott however is a dangerous alternative in the same vein as George Bush Jnr and Snr were for the US. If elected (please baby Jesus no) he may be "just a figurehead" but he represents the country in the international arena and that is just embarrassing. His ideas are outdated, he is an admitted homophobe, a xenophobe and a misogynist. You might agree with the Liberal party, but how could you possibly support that backwards clown?

KRUDDLER FOR PM (the lesser of two weevils)
09:46am 27/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14076 posts
Fingers crossed we get an earlier election out of this anyway.
09:49am 27/06/13 Permalink
Viper119
UK
2098 posts
Honestly, how bad of a shape is Australia in compared to other countries? I always had a feeling we were doing quite well, despite many of the public apparently "hating" Julia Gillard.


Dude, Australia is one of the most advanced 1st world countries in the world in every regard - it ranks in the top 10 for almost every performance measure. In real terms, we're squabbling over the minute details of specific policies about how to use all the awesome s*** we have. #firstworldproblems much. Though the politicians do seem to be a bit on the retarded side, not unlike the US.

I'm living in South Africa at the moment, it's literally no comparison, now there's real issues worth debating here!
09:50am 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35933 posts
yer, i never had any issues with julia, other than she could never win the election.

it probably boils down to the australian voting public being retarded and not trusting/supporting a female leader.
09:55am 27/06/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1401 posts
I think now gay marriage may be the moral challenge of our time - because it is more trendy.


Legalise gay marijuana 2013.
09:58am 27/06/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1575 posts
Yay, now Abbott has to step up, fall over and slump away quietly!
10:05am 27/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2368 posts
yer, i never had any issues with julia, other than she could never win the election. it probably boils down to the australian voting public being retarded and not trusting/supporting a female leader.


This.

As much as I would have happy to see Julia stick it up Abbott, it was looking pretty unlikely. Sadly, the Australian public aren't at the point where they can handle a woman as leader; an indictment on the public rather than the leader herself.
At least with Kruddler at the reigns ALP has a chance of pulling the rug out from under the Stunned Mullet.
10:08am 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35934 posts
good on labor for giving her a go though!
10:14am 27/06/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7613 posts
Coalition
- 'Stop the boats'

Lol yeah. I found it hilarious that this was the first "policy" he listed in his speech. Not once, but twice!
10:15am 27/06/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37122 posts
Lol yeah. I found it hilarious that this was the first "policy" he listed in his speech. Not once, but twice!
that is ludicrous and there's something massively wrong with people who vote for that clown and clown party if that is really their leading message

save the country and vote for one of those smaller parties imo
10:23am 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35935 posts
thats not going to prevent mr clowny getting in.

10:28am 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3729 posts
This.

As much as I would have happy to see Julia stick it up Abbott, it was looking pretty unlikely. Sadly, the Australian public aren't at the point where they can handle a woman as leader; an indictment on the public rather than the leader herself.
At least with Kruddler at the reigns ALP has a chance of pulling the rug out from under the Stunned Mullet.


I think that is a bit of a cop out. The majority of Australians are sexist because we didn't like a female leader? One that campaigned horribly at the last election if you recall. One that changed her tact halfway through to the "real Julia" because she was tanking so badly. One that broke her promises to the electorate once she was elected. Great way to start a relationship with the public.

Then one in with the support of the minorities, was unable to sell her achievements and went from one c***up to the next.

Yeah, must be because Australia is sexist.
10:32am 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2967 posts
I think it's probably naive to think that her gender had nothing to do with the hardships or the way people reacted to her, but I don't think it's the only reason why things were going so badly. As Gillard said herself, gender wasn't everything, or nothing, it was somewhere in between.

Personally, I think there are a lot of racist, bigoted, sexist pigs out there in Australia, and for some people it's a bit hard to stomach that, but it's true. The fact that "stop the boats' resonates so well, with so many people is a sign of that. The fact that both Gillard and Abbott both didn't support same sex marriage is surely a sign of that too. The fact that the 'misogynist speech' was received soooo poorly by the media here, but so amazingly well received everywhere else globally is a sign of that too.

I liked Gillard, I think she made a heap of c*** ups, but I think she pushed through important reforms. I think Rudd needed to take over though because there was no way what so ever she could win at the next election Australian people, for whatever reason, including the reasons above the majority of Australia wasn't listening.
10:40am 27/06/13 Permalink
dranged
Sydney, New South Wales
2088 posts
I wish they would just pass a bill tomorrow that lets the pinkos marry each other so that we don't have to keep hearing about it all the time ffs.


This. A mention for gay mates rambling on and on about it on facebook, and all the political amway s*** people continually spam in my activity feed.
10:41am 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3730 posts
The fact that the 'misogynist speech' was received soooo poorly by the media here, but so amazingly well received everywhere else globally is a sign of that too.


I thought that was because the local media saw it for what it was, a playing of the gender card and the media overseas just saw it for a good speech.

Note Kevin was wearing a blue tie when he won the caucus vote.
11:11am 27/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13866 posts
At least now that Ruddles is PM the Media can actually focus on the Good Gillard did do..
11:13am 27/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6127 posts
This. A mention for gay mates rambling on and on about it on facebook, and all the political amway s*** people continually spam in my activity feed.


Speaking of...
Has Kevin updated his leadership status on FB and changed his twitter handle from @KRuddMP to @KRuddPM yet?
He's not prime minister until it's facebook official.
11:14am 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7815 posts
One that broke her promises to the electorate once she was elected.

Which promises were broken under the Gillard government? You're not going to equivocate an (initially fixed) emissions trading scheme with a carbon tax are you? Because, the global debate has for years understood these to be two separate things, which Gillard was surely referring to.
12:01pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3731 posts
Which promises were broken under the Gillard government? You're not going to equivocate an (initially fixed) emissions trading scheme with a carbon tax are you? Because, the global debate has for years understood these to be two separate things, which Gillard was surely referring to.


I guess when Wayne Swan calls it a carbon tax he is just being a pork chop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znP1VkKVnyw#t=2m40s

"That is a carbon tax, that is true"
01:00pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7816 posts
Except as he pointed out, and I pointed out, that's just a technical equivocation on loosely comparable functionality only during its short term startup stage, while they've definitely moved to implement what the world has been calling an Emissions Trading Scheme as opposed to a Carbon tax - which is what they announced during their past election cycle - and what they have definitely implemented in the long term.
01:26pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3734 posts
So it is okay to do something that you say you aren't going to do as long as it is only for a little while.

Right.
01:34pm 27/06/13 Permalink
BobaFaux
Perth, Western Australia
34 posts
Which promises were broken under the Gillard government? You're not going to equivocate an (initially fixed) emissions trading scheme with a carbon tax are you? Because, the global debate has for years understood these to be two separate things, which Gillard was surely referring to.


It doesn't really matter how your can technically weasel out of the lie but it felt to the public like she was breaking a commitment. She has even on different interviews said "happy to call it a tax" and and on Q&A "I promised that there would be no carbon tax, thats true and i've walked away from that commitment". So it even sounds like from her she broke a promise/commitment.

She, along with Swanny, committed to a budget surplus even when it was becoming clear that wasn't going to happen.

She has told us many times that the leadership of the Labour party was no longer and issue and she had the full support of the party when this was clearly not the case.

Now I am not am not saying pricing carbon was the wrong thing to do, I agree with it, but their handling and messaging of was terrible. I also don't think a "must get surplus" is the right thing either but Gillard and Swan were the ones who made that commitment.

She felt deceitful to me and the whole party feels that way still and in my mind they have a lot of work to do to gain that trust back.
01:46pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7817 posts
So it is okay to do something that you say you aren't going to do as long as it is only for a little while.Right.

They didn't do it, they implemented an emissions trading scheme (as promised) with a fixed price for the first three years, which is loosely similar to a carbon tax in initial functionality, but is not a carbon tax.

It doesn't really matter how your can technically weasel out of the lie

What does matter is that they didn't lie in the first place.

but it felt to the public like she was breaking a commitment

And I blame the dishonest pundits repeating it until it became true for this.

She has even on different interviews said "happy to call it a tax" and and on Q&A "I promised that there would be no carbon tax, thats true and i've walked away from that commitment".

And that just highlights what a terrible campaigner she was, as everybody has been saying. Her government never implemented a carbon tax, they implemented an emissions trading scheme which had initial functionality similar to a carbon tax, yet she let people walk all over her.
01:50pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2968 posts
I thought that was because the local media saw it for what it was, a playing of the gender card and the media overseas just saw it for a good speech. Note Kevin was wearing a blue tie when he won the caucus vote.


EVERYONE else got it wrong, and we got it right? Ya, that's it. I was in the UK at the time and it was stunning to see the reaction over there VS the reaction here. The press was so negative, and it was the whole 'gender card' thing. I think for most people it was yeah, you know what, this kind of BS isn't on, and shouldn't be tolerated, good on her for saying something.

I don't think calling out inappropriate behaviour, especially when it is so overt and discriminatory and sexist is a bad thing...for some reason 'gender card' keeps being mentioned. As per my previous post you're naive if you don't think the media and the parliament treated Gillard differently because she was a woman.
01:53pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3735 posts
And that just highlights what a terrible campaigner she was, as everybody has been saying. Her government never implemented a carbon tax, they implemented an emissions trading scheme which had initial functionality similar to a carbon tax, yet she let people walk all over her.


haha, i want some of what Nerflord is taking.

She calls it a tax, Swan calls it a tax, but hold on, Nerflord says it isn't a tax so it is all good.
01:54pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3736 posts
I don't think calling out inappropriate behaviour, especially when it is so overt and discriminatory and sexist is a bad thing...for some reason 'gender card' keeps being mentioned. As per my previous post you're naive if you don't think the media and the parliament treated Gillard differently because she was a woman.


Yes, I am sure the foreign media was all up to date on the whole slipper debarkle. it is funny how someone can label someone a misogynist, a hater of women, while embracing a guy like Peter Slipper, a hater of women. Hypocrite much, but hey, it is on youtube, it got lots of hits. must be right.
02:01pm 27/06/13 Permalink
BobaFaux
Perth, Western Australia
35 posts
And that just highlights what a terrible campaigner she was, as everybody has been saying. Her government never implemented a carbon tax, they implemented an emissions trading scheme which had initial functionality similar to a carbon tax, yet she let people walk all over her.


So she implemented something which looks and works like a carbon tax but in some time in the future will work like an ETS (so effectively we get a carbon tax for X period before it transitions) and then has admitted to it begin a carbon tax, but it is not technically a carbon tax because it will morph to an ETS so we can claim it is not. She has lied somewhere along that story.

She may not be caught in a technical lie but sure as hell not been honest.
02:01pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2969 posts
It wasn't honest, the situation changed and she needed to form a minority government and back flipped to get the support of the greens.

If your so butt hurt over that after 3 years, and still clinging to the 'we were lied too' then so be it...my guess is you voted LNP in the last election anyway...but regardless it obviously hurt her in the polls, and Abbott played it so well, and everyone believes/believed his negative campaigning.
02:04pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7818 posts
She calls it a tax, Swan calls it a tax, but hold on, Nerflord says it isn't a tax so it is all good.

It's functionally similar to 'a tax' early on, but it's not a Carbon Tax policy which she was referring to in the election interview.

So she implemented something which looks and works like a carbon tax but in some time in the future will work like an ETS (so effectively we get a carbon tax for X period before it transitions) and then has admitted to it begin a carbon tax, but it is not technically a carbon tax because it will morph to an ETS so we can claim it is not

She implemented an emissions trading scheme which at its startup has a fixed price, it's a fixed emission trading scheme as far as policies are concerned, which is somewhat like a carbon tax, but is not a carbon tax policy.

It's like somebody saying that they're going to paint a blue picture, not a red one, they start off with a purple undercoating, and a few motivated critics get everybody hyperventilating over that they said that they weren't going to be painting a red picture, when it's largely irrelevant and is not what they're really building.
02:13pm 27/06/13 Permalink
BobaFaux
Perth, Western Australia
36 posts
It wasn't honest, the situation changed and she needed to form a minority government and back flipped to get the support of the greens.If your so butt hurt over that after 3 years, and still clinging to the 'we were lied too' then so be it...my guess is you voted LNP in the last election anyway...but regardless it obviously hurt her in the polls, and Abbott played it so well, and everyone believes/believed his negative campaigning.


I am not butt hurt about I agree with the carbon pricing/ETS the question originally was about what promises were broken and the carbon tax s*** was the start of a line of them. If it was her only broken promise then I maybe people could deal with it better but it wasn't.

I agree things changed and she needed to form a minority government, but once she had formed government with that compromise with the greens she should have been honest and came out immediately and told us what the deal was and how the greens, who the public voted for, has made it critical for their support. She may have gotten some flack there but at least she would have been honest and no matter what people threw at her she could go back to that honesty.
02:16pm 27/06/13 Permalink
BobaFaux
Perth, Western Australia
37 posts
She implemented an emissions trading scheme which at its startup has a fixed price, it's a fixed emission trading scheme as far as policies are concerned, which is somewhat like a carbon tax, but is not a carbon tax policy.It's like somebody saying that they're going to paint a blue picture, not a red one, they start off with a purple undercoating, and a few motivated critics get everybody hyperventilating over that they said that they weren't going to be painting a red picture, when it's largely irrelevant and is not what they're really building.


Again this is all just weaselling out of being dishonest. The policy it never referred to as an ETS by Labour it is always referred to as either a carbon tax or a carbon price.

You analogue it a bit wrong, it is like them saving they will never paint a purple picture then they start painting a purple picture and say but but but we are just using that as an undercoat to the blue picture we are actually going to paint. Yeah the purple picture is technically an undercoat not a picture but it sure looks like a picture.
02:23pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7819 posts
Yeah the purple picture is technically an undercoat not a picture but it sure looks like a picture.

That was my point with that example. It only looks like that's what's being implemented if people don't pay attention to the overall process.

They could have fought much harder on this one, but they never seemed to stand up for themselves on anything. Same with the NBN from what I've seen, letting the coalition getting away with painting it as a luxurious expense, rather than the startup capital of a national utilities company which is looking to earn back more than is put in.
02:48pm 27/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10389 posts
The only victims of Global Warming have been the Politicians that wanted to play with it.

Big swing to the ALP after Rudd returned as leader tonight. ALP 49.5% (up 5%) cf. L-NP 50.5% (down 5%) – but will it be enough

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/snap-sms-morgan-poll-june-26-2013-201306261145

Heres comes Lazarus or is it the Messiah himself ??

02:51pm 27/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20088 posts
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1017241_10152947535855246_1607714445_n.jpg

parked out the front of his own electorate office. let the egomania begin!
02:55pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35938 posts
go kruddler!!!!!!
03:31pm 27/06/13 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
10619 posts
is that seriously a truck with a generator and a massive digital advertising display on it?

what an utter waste of money
03:35pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2373 posts
Once the shine wears off Rudd's polling will fall. For this reason I would expect the election to be sooner rather than later.
03:48pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3737 posts
It wasn't honest, the situation changed and she needed to form a minority government and back flipped to get the support of the greens.If your so butt hurt over that after 3 years, and still clinging to the 'we were lied too' then so be it...my guess is you voted LNP in the last election anyway...but regardless it obviously hurt her in the polls, and Abbott played it so well, and everyone believes/believed his negative campaigning.


I don't understand this. Why would I be butt hurt?

The guy I voted for is the member of parliament for my electorate. Gillard formed a government with the support of some members of parliament from conservative electorates. How did that work out for those members?

The people of Australia got the government they deserve, and that government chose their leader. How did that work out for Gillard?

I think the only one feeling butt hurt about now would be Gillard and those independent MPs.
03:51pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13869 posts
I highly double Gillard is Butthurt, she has $600,000/year PM pension to live off for the rest of her life....
04:07pm 27/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
274 posts
It always makes me laugh to hear people who I know would never change the party they vote for complaining about how other people do the same thing.


I voted Labor in 2007.........

Honestly, how bad of a shape is Australia in compared to other countries? I always had a feeling we were doing quite well, despite many of the public apparently "hating" Julia Gillard.


Ah yes, the usual "We aren't as bad as other countries!" excuse/apology. The fact is we aren't living up to our full potential, but somehow that doesn't matter just because "We aren't as bad as other countries"

What a load of crap.

Which promises were broken under the Gillard government?


No Carbon tax
No levy to pay for the NDIS
No levy to pay for the major Queensland floods
The $10,000 teacher bonus which was exposed as completely bogus from the beginning.

and so many more, not to mention countless backflips.
04:16pm 27/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3738 posts
I highly double Gillard is Butthurt, she has $600,000/year PM pension to live off for the rest of her life....


errg, not sure where you pulled 600k from. it is around 70% of their salary, so closer to $250k.
04:17pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13870 posts
Oh, Big Boy Kev gets $600,000 apparently I thought it was similar for all PM's. Still $250,000 a year for doing nothing is a pretty sweet deal.
04:30pm 27/06/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5895 posts
Ah yes, the usual "We aren't as bad as other countries!" excuse/apology. The fact is we aren't living up to our full intentional, but somehow that doesn't matter just because "We aren't as bad as other countries"

What a load of crap.
This you god damned mother f*****s.

Change for the better is better than the status qou. Always strive for better.
04:41pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6937 posts
Always strive for better.
So don't vote for Abbott?
05:10pm 27/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2766 posts
I voted Labor in 2007.........

Obviously there's no way I could ever know one way or the other (and in the end it's totally inconsequential) but based on your first 274 posts here, there is absolutely nothing you can say that would ever lead me to believe that's actually the truth.
06:58pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7820 posts
Door's history of lying lets you free yourself from even having to give the benefit of doubt.
07:09pm 27/06/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6404 posts
LOL you're a bigoted little c*** aren't you slaps :)


My point was that I think that the whole gay marriage thing is a minor issue that seems to take up alot of media space. I'm all for the homo's wanting to marry because I honestly don't care and I just wish they would hurry up and pass the pinko bill so the government can focus on more pressing concerns such as housing affordabilty and the winding down of the mining boom.

Its only the religious nutters who give a s*** whether queers want to get married.

Ironically the old toe-toucher at work was telling me today he was going to vote for Tony Abbot! So there you go, what crazy f***ed up world we live in ;)
07:44pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35943 posts
haha, you know whats a minor issue?

boat people.
07:54pm 27/06/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6377 posts

Coalition
- 'Stop the boats'

I so love this argument. Nearly every aussie i knew in the UK had limited companies offshore to dodge tax, and had over stayed their visas... yet people winge here about a few boats of poor bastards.
08:12pm 27/06/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6378 posts
I'm living in South Africa at the moment, it's literally no comparison, now there's real issues worth debating here!

Well said bro. More bogans should travel (further than bali) and see just how fortunate we are.
08:15pm 27/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20089 posts
yet people winge here about a few boats of poor bastards.


presently illegal entrants number 3,000 per week. that's 150,000 per year. Illegal entrants - all requiring security checks, tax payer provided medical, housing, placement and cross fingers!

it's a great little earner for the people smugglers thanks to Australia's very accommodating policies.
08:19pm 27/06/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6379 posts
The only victims of Global Warming have been the Politicians that wanted to play with it.

Faceman, you're a f*****g idiot.

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4e488ea169beddb83e00004d/image.jpg
Tuvalu
http://static.businessinsider.com/image/50758f2569bedde61f000000/image.jpg

quod erat demonstrandum.
08:21pm 27/06/13 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6380 posts
presently illegal entrants number 3,000 per week. that's 150,000 per year


Citation?
08:23pm 27/06/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6938 posts
08:29pm 27/06/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2767 posts
Citation?

Don't worry mooby, it's obvious there wasn't one because the entire post was constructed to mislead.
08:37pm 27/06/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5896 posts
I found this:
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/02key.htm
Majority of which are from NZ.
08:38pm 27/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20090 posts
my bad. 3,000 a month. our immigration system is overloaded. recently ASIO admitted it was unable to process security checks for all illegal entrants and this was the major cause for their extended stays in detention. all of the current australian detention centres are overcrowded. The immigration budget has blown out by $1.2b of TAXPAYERS money (much to fpots delight I am sure) and further increases will be required to fund ASIO properly.

What is Rudd goong to do about this?

At what level of illegal entrants would you be concerned mooby? 50,000 per year? 100,000 per year? Would you be prepared for your taxes to go up by 10% to pay for all of this? How much should Australia bear, and should every illegal entrant be detained prior to security screening or do we just let the wave of arrivals start work in Australia without any checks?
08:43pm 27/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
275 posts
Obviously there's no way I could ever know one way or the other (and in the end it's totally inconsequential) but based on your first 274 posts here, there is absolutely nothing you can say that would ever lead me to believe that's actually the truth.


True you couldn't, but it is true. Like most Australians in 2007, we were drawn into Labor and Kevin Rudd as a fresh new exciting Prime Minister and government with new and exciting ideas. We had 11+ years of Howard and it felt good having a change.

It was in 2009 that i finally woke up and realized what Labor governments are about, especially this Labor government. It's around about the time most people in Australia woke up. Labor is nothing but a socialist party that stands for more tax and more debt along with stupid social policies that just don't make sense whatsoever.

my bad. 3,000 a month. our immigration system is overloaded. recently ASIO admitted it was unable to process security checks for all illegal entrants and this was the major cause for their extended stays in detention. all of the current australian detention centres are overcrowded. The immigration budget has blown out by $1.2b of TAXPAYERS money (much to fpots delight I am sure) and further increases will be required to fund ASIO properly. What is Rudd goong to do about this?At what level of illegal entrants would you be concerned mooby? 50,000 per year? 100,000 per year? Would you be prepared for your taxes to go up by 10% to pay for all of this? How much should Australia bear, and should every illegal entrant be detained prior to security screening or do we just let the wave of arrivals start work in Australia without any checks?


We have also seen recently the confirmation of that suspicion that a huge load of these so called "Asylum seekers" are infact bogus and that the checking processes are flawed despite the Greens are refugee advocates hysterically claiming "ALL OF THEM ARE LEGITIMATE POOR POOR PEOPLE" and that the processes of verifying them are bulletproof.
09:22pm 27/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10391 posts
Tuvalu and other islands are actually getting bigger.
its survived 100 meters sea level rise over 20 000 years
its an Atoll that increases due to sediment and coral deposits.
That's Science PAL

Even the ABC agrees its getting bigger !

Climate scientists have expressed surprise at findings that many low-lying Pacific islands are growing, not sinking.

Islands in Tuvalu, Kiribati and the Federated States of Micronesia are among those which have grown, largely due to coral debris, land reclamation and sediment


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-03/pacific-islands-growing-not-sinking/851738

11:04pm 27/06/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7614 posts
^ crazy infi, SheerObesity and Faceman posts, back to back.

nice wall of text in one spot to conveniently scroll right past ...
11:24pm 27/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
919 posts
immigration budget has blown out by $1.2b of TAXPAYERS money


You could try not detaining them. ringing New Delhi can't cost that much.
12:08am 28/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
276 posts
Yeh, just let anyone arrive on our shores and let them roam around the streets. What could possibly go wrong?

Dissolve passports too and immigration at airports. Just let anyone on a plane fly in and instantly walk out into the public.
02:32am 28/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4247 posts
they wanted protection from being persecuted and in detention they definitely have that!
03:05am 28/06/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
317 posts
Lets see, JWH and the other Liberal warmongers blindly going to war (without sanction) following our US massa's create a refugee problem.

Hmmm... how to resolve this? F*** it, we'll just take the easy way out and blame Labor instead for relaxing border policy.

Simple story: When you unjustifiably f*** up someone else's backyard, yours is always going to look better.

Also, my future BIL worked as an immigration lawyer for a few years (representing legitimate refugees). The % that go home after whatever has caused them to flee their homes has ceased is quite high. They don't all want to live here mostly because they don't want to be away from their immediate and extended families for any longer than they have to.
07:51am 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14077 posts
Hahah only overstated it by 4x infi, all good.
10:28am 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3739 posts
Lets see, JWH and the other Liberal warmongers blindly going to war (without sanction) following our US massa's create a refugee problem.Hmmm... how to resolve this? F*** it, we'll just take the easy way out and blame Labor instead for relaxing border policy.Simple story: When you unjustifiably f*** up someone else's backyard, yours is always going to look better.


I think you are mixing up the Iraq and Afgan conflicts.

Also, arrives jumped after Rudd removed temporary protection visas, not after the conflicts in the middle east started.
10:41am 28/06/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10043 posts
We are the 12th strongest economy in the world.

Yet in terms of doing our part when it comes to refugees...

Australia was ranked 33rd for total asylum applications with 6206 new applications in 2009.

It was 41st on a per capita basis and 71st relative to national Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

source http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1294102/At-a-glance-Who-takes-the-most-asylum-claims

In other words ... we aren't doing our part.

We have 996 residents per refugee.
The world average is 682 residents per refugee
Ireland 536
Belgium 480
Denmark 412
UK 319
France 310
Cyprus 229
Netherlands 222
Canada 203
Austria 177
Switzerland 154
Germany 144
Norway 119
Sweden 107
I excluded places like Malaysia 317 and Venezuela 141. Because "yocals" won't connect with them (Asia and South America ... not white ...)

The "boats" were a tacky political re-election stunt by John Howard (Tampa). Until then refugee policies had largely been bi-partisan, thus were not an issue. Boats even being on the agenda shows what a redneck little backwater Australia is.

More people who fly in over stay visa's then come in on boats ... but they are mostly white, speak English and aren't muslim so that's ok ...

If you are genuinely worried about the boats ... you are imo one of 3 things:
- xenophobic,
- poorly educated, or
- politically motivated in trying to get redneck votes.

I wish both the major parties would grow a morale backbone go bi-partisan on "boats" and take it off the national agenda, it does nothing for our social stability (it re-inforces a culture of "we should be scared of brown skinned muslims! ... well anyone who looks like they might be muslims")or our international reputation.

Boats really are a form dog-whistle politics. It's on the surface about border security, really is designed to appease a racist voter.

ps. the term illegals ... is wrong. The Migration Act 1958 allows for entry to Australia without a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum.
10:52am 28/06/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
113 posts
Well said Obes.
11:10am 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3740 posts
Isn't one of the main issues with arrival by boat the ability to do it with little or no documentation. this would enable anyone to arrive in Australia from anywhere, claim asylum and potentially then get a new identity. Don't you think people that arrive in Australia without any documentation should be held until we figure out who they are regardless of what mode of transport they came via?
11:13am 28/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10376 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: citation needed
Send Private Message
11:26am 28/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6128 posts
Hear hear, Obes.

Aren't we all glad native aboriginal Australians two hundred years ago didn't have a rabid 'stop the boats' policy otherwise we might not be having this discussion today?
11:26am 28/06/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2167 posts
Unless you had to flee pretty quickly from your persecution (or it was destroyed).

The real issue here is that there are organisations profiting from the business of human trafficking on incredibly unseaworthy vessels. That's what needs to stop. There needs to be a safe, controlled alternative for asylum seekers to use.
11:28am 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14078 posts
Obes, you're doing it wrong, needs more shrill indignation. WE HAVE TO STAHP THE BOATS WONT SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING
Unless you had to flee pretty quickly from your persecution (or it was destroyed).

The real issue here is that there are organisations profiting from the business of human trafficking on incredibly unseaworthy vessels. That's what needs to stop. There needs to be a safe, controlled alternative for asylum seekers to use.

We need to intercept the boats, humanely care for the asylum seekers, and throw the book at the traffickers ... the way they throw our guys in jail over drugs. Twenty year sentences per offense. Navy gets to play games hunting boats, refugees are looked after, human traffickers are jailed forever and they either stop doing it or they run out of crew.

Surely trafficking HUMAN BEINGS is worse than a boogie bag of dope?

How f*****g hard is this, really? People complain about gay marriage (civil rights issue) getting play while THIS is the main thing on porkchop Abbott's list of priorities? GTFO
11:34am 28/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4248 posts
yeah sneak in by boat, don't just fly in which you could totally do and it would be cheaper
11:38am 28/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6129 posts
There needs to be a safe, controlled alternative for asylum seekers to use.

Sounds too hard though, we could just sell the entirety of Christmas Island to Indonesia instead.
11:38am 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14079 posts
That's not very Christmassy of you Dazhel, considering you still wear your hat in June.
11:40am 28/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6130 posts
Haha, yeah I think I've had this icon for the past 5 or more Junes.
11:43am 28/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
920 posts
Yeh, just let anyone arrive on our shores and let them roam around the streets. What could possibly go wrong?

Dissolve passports too and immigration at airports. Just let anyone on a plane fly in and instantly walk out into the public.


Why not? I didn't say no checks, just don't detain them. How much damage could a terrorist actually do? Is it really worth the 4 billion or so we are spending, to find out something like 90% are legit refugees?
11:53am 28/06/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7615 posts
We need to intercept the boats, humanely care for the asylum seekers

What the hell are you doing injecting unwanted properly thought-out logic in this thread?
12:07pm 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3741 posts
How much damage could a terrorist actually do?


This has to be a troll or one of the dumbest things ever said.
12:10pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
114 posts
When was the last time an act of terror was performed by someone who arrived in that country without documentation?

Usually they just come through via student, working or are citizens of that country to begin with. I've never quite understood the terrorist aspect. If you ran an international terrorist organisation I would imagine you wouldn't want to risk your trained operatives lives on a dangerous boat journey when you could forge documentation for much less.

It's easy enough to do a background check and keep tabs on any asylum seeker without the cost of having to keep them in jail for a while.
12:20pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
921 posts
No its not a troll ara. I don't see why that should be above cost/benefit analysis.

Take the likelihood of an actual terrorist arriving by boat, then likelihood of being able to pull of an attack without being arrested by normal police work, then the cost of the damage they could actually inflict.

I don't think the risk justifies the current spend. If we are spending however many billion to prevent a few million in damage how is it justified?

Most attacks do f*** all 9/11 is obviously different, but think about Bali? I don't rate the lives lost either, not to sound callous but you're more likely to die of a heart attack then a terrorist attack.

You could take the money and put into something to reduce the road toll, you'd probably save more lives and have cash left over.
12:33pm 28/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10393 posts
http://www.ministerhomeaffairs.gov.au/Mediareleases/Pages/2013/Second%20Quarter/27-June-2013---BorderProtectionCommandinterceptsvessel.aspx

HMAS Larrakia, operating under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted a suspected irregular entry vessel east of Christmas Island on Wednesday night.

Initial indications suggest there were 64 passengers and two crew on board.

http://www.ministerhomeaffairs.gov.au/Mediareleases/Pages/2013/Second%20Quarter/27-June-2013--BorderProtectionCommandinterceptsvessel.aspx

HMAS Larrakia, operating under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted a suspected irregular entry vessel north of Christmas Island on Wednesday.

Initial indications suggest there were 65 passengers and two crew on board.

http://www.ministerhomeaffairs.gov.au/Mediareleases/Pages/2013/Second%20Quarter/27June2013-BorderProtectionCommandinterceptsvessel.aspx

HMAS Larrakia, operating under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted a suspected irregular entry vessel north-east of Christmas Island on Tuesday.

Initial indications suggest there were 79 people on board.

208 in 1 day.

12:39pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4249 posts
A times B times C equals X

if X is less than the cost of locking up terrorists we don't do it
12:41pm 28/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2370 posts
Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing Obes, well said indeed.

'Stop the Boats' is straight up embarrassing "policy" and is just one of the reasons I hate Abbott and his fellow Liberal party people.

If half the donkeys braying about 'the boat' spent a little time listening to the stories of these refugees and checking their facts (infi) instead of parading around with their granddad's flag and their southern cross tattoos and their "F*** off...we're full" bumper stickers, they might actually realise that:
a) it's a non issue
b) there's actual real live people involved, not faceless minions of evil waiting to sail across and take thurrr jeeerbs
c) the whole campaign is a smokescreen and a beat up to thinly disguise and promote racist, xenophobic and white Australia style thinking that ultimately isolates us from our immediate neighbours and the rest of the world





12:42pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13872 posts
then the cost of the damage they could actually inflict.


Not that I agree or disagree with your argument, How much do you 'cost' 1 human life at?
12:44pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
922 posts
Not that I agree or disagree with your argument, How much do you 'cost' 1 human life at?


Read the whole post.
12:50pm 28/06/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23001 posts
Obviously there's no way I could ever know one way or the other (and in the end it's totally inconsequential) but based on your first 274 posts here
Don't forget his other 81 posts before he made his cute little comeback! Highlights include his Anders Breivik apologist posts.

Anders Breivik understood that Western Society is under threat from multiculutralism and islam. Basically everything he said is true, however, he went about the wrong way trying to stop it ie mass murdering people.

The worst thing is that he was declared "insane" by a left wing court because of the views he held. He should have been thrown into jail for mass murder. His views are truthful but his actions were incorrect and the left wing court deemed him insane to try to quash people from speaking out with similar views.
http://i.imgur.com/L5LnGcE.gif
12:57pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4250 posts
everyone who wants the boats stopped for some reason is racist? that's kind of an exaggeration, and an untestable proposition anyway

I'm not a fan of the "stop the boats" rhetoric either, it's tacky and simplistic and shouldn't be the number one issue for a major party leader
01:02pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14080 posts
everyone who wants the boats stopped for some reason is racist? that's kind of an exaggeration, and an untestable proposition anyway

Racist might be a stretch, but its clearly a xenophobic position to take. Those desperate f*****s are going to blow things up, apparently.

Every time I've seen footage of asylum seekers my reaction has been pity. Some people fear refugees for reasons I will never fully understand.
01:29pm 28/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10394 posts
How many people arriving everyday would it need to be before you bleeding hearts thought there was a problem ?
\
Don't you care about the people who took up your open house offer only die at sea ?

You want to encourage more dead refugees ?
01:40pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20091 posts
the term illegals ... is wrong. The Migration Act 1958 allows for entry to Australia without a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum.
Wrong.

Obes at 3,000 per month Australia's intake for 2013 will be over 30,000 so how does that then rate? it's a far cry from your 2009 statistic.
01:58pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
923 posts
How many people arriving everyday would it need to be before you bleeding hearts thought there was a problem ?
\
Don't you care about the people who took up your open house offer only die at sea ?

You want to encourage more dead refugees ?


see this the turn in the debate I don't get from people such as yourself. Aren't you all about freedom, and the government should be running our lives?

If people want to take the risk, why shouldn't they be able to?
01:59pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14081 posts
Heh nice work there infi. Your own link says 'half true'. Is that the best you can come up with?

Some facts for those who don't know:

  • Entering Australia without authority is illegal. There are stiff penalties and you can go to jail for that.

  • As a signatory to the UNHCR, people who enter Australia without authority to seek asylum are not able to be penalised or prosecuted for doing so.

  • Those asylum seekers whose refugee status is declared invalid are not prosecuted, they are deported.


The language 'illegal immigrant' is deliberately used by politicians to demonise asylum seekers to the public. People cannot be illegal ffs.

It is illegal to enter Australia without authority.

We have explicitly agreed that refugees who enter without authority may not be chastised under our laws for doing so. It may be illegal but we've given then an exemption going back to the end of WW2. There is no queue to jump. There is no 'proper way in'. There is an explicit and open invitation to seek refuge here by travelling and asking for help on arrival.

If we don't want people arriving on boats then we should withdraw from the f*****g convention.

Don't be suckered in by the pollies and let them use these poor c**** as a political scoreboard anymore guys. Both sides are guilty of it and its disgusting.
02:32pm 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3743 posts
Don't they say illegal arrivals now? Since arriving at Australia without authorisation is illegal regardless of your purpose?
02:40pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14082 posts
Don't they say illegal arrivals now? Since arriving at Australia without authorisation is illegal regardless of your purpose?

Probably? It may be still technically illegal, but its explicitly allowed in our obligations under the UNHCR. Refugees have an exemption to the law. Why is 'illegal' always used so prominently when the law they break cannot possibly be enforced?

The term is deliberately used to make sure Joe Public has the word illegal in his mind when thinking about refugees. Asylum seeker and refugee just doesn't scare people enough. Its hard to imply with a straight face that an asylum seeker may be a terrorist ... but an illegal arrival? Damn straight skippy, turn back them boats!
02:47pm 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3744 posts
Its hard to imply with a straight face that an asylum seeker may be a terrorist


well, this isn't really true. can't anyone seek asylum for whatever reason?
02:51pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14083 posts
well, this isn't really true. can't anyone seek asylum for whatever reason?

Nope. There are rules about what you can seek asylum for.
02:54pm 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3745 posts
Nope. There are rules about what you can seek asylum for.


So anyone can seek it, for any reason from that list, is what I am implying.
02:57pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14084 posts
So anyone can seek it, for any reason from that list, is what I am implying.

Yes - which is why they have to have it approved. Not sure how this applies to terrorists though?

Disguising yourself as a refugee, crossing the Timor Sea in a leaky boat and then approaching the Australian Government to closely review your asylum application for a year or so just seems like the worst plan imaginable to enter the country to try and cause havoc? Why not grab a tourist VISA which is significantly less scrutinised?
03:05pm 28/06/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3746 posts
Yes - which is why they have to have it approved. Not sure how this applies to terrorists though?Disguising yourself as a refugee, crossing the Timor Sea in a leaky boat and then approaching the Australian Government to closely review your asylum application for a year or so just seems like the worst plan imaginable to enter the country to try and cause havoc? Why not grab a tourist VISA which is significantly less scrutinised?


isn't the difference that people are advocating while an application for asylum is processed the applicant should be out in the community where as when an application for a tourist visa is being processed the applicant isn't in the country?

to me that would seem ripe for exploitation.
03:15pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
4180 posts
If we don't want people arriving on boats then we should withdraw from the f*****g convention.
Amen.

Clearly the anti- "boat people" bandwagon is driven by xenophobia, why not just man up and take that position (that the right simply do not want refugees here) to an election?

It seems like such a move would actually be quite popular with a good portion of the population.
03:58pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
277 posts
This has to be a troll or one of the dumbest things ever said.


Going by his other posts, i think he is actually serious lol....

When was the last time an act of terror was performed by someone who arrived in that country without documentation?


We had refugees who came here by boat who were here for 3 months before they started planning to attack Australian army bases.Luckily, we have been saved by our security organizations.
04:14pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
115 posts
We had refugees who came here by boat who were here for 3 months before they started planning to attack Australian army bases.Luckily, we have been saved by our security organizations.


I'm actually trying to find any evidence of this, can someone help me out?
04:33pm 28/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2372 posts
We have explicitly agreed that refugees who enter without authority may not be chastised under our laws for doing so. It may be illegal but we've given then an exemption going back to the end of WW2. There is no queue to jump. There is no 'proper way in'. There is an explicit and open invitation to seek refuge here by travelling and asking for help on arrival. If we don't want people arriving on boats then we should withdraw from the f*****g convention.


Hoggie hitting the nail on the head.

Those "anti boat people" people should own up and say what they really think...that Australia shouldn't offer help to other countries and should withdraw humanitarian aid across the board. What's the difference between taking in refugees and teaching developing nations underprivileged kids to read or setting up hospitals in places like Africa and parts of Asia?

It all costs money and resources right? why should we help anyone? australians love to embrace the "Lucky Country" and the "spirit of mateship" and all the other qualities that show us in a positive light, but a lot of people then go and vote for someone who openly condemns helping refugees - Abbott.

He's not saying "let's manage this situation better for all Australians" he is saying quite blatantly "stop the boats" i.e. f*** off and don't come here.

Come on Kruddler, show some true Aussie spirit and sort this out!
05:44pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14085 posts
isn't the difference that people are advocating while an application for asylum is processed the applicant should be out in the community where as when an application for a tourist visa is being processed the applicant isn't in the country?to me that would seem ripe for exploitation.

Some people want on shore processing where the asylum seekers are in the community, monitored by relevant agencies. I have a hard time arguing against this for mother/child groups.

I'm fine with 'locking them up' though - assuming that the accommodations are humane and appropriate for people who we must assume are victims above all else. I'm talking about housing that is supervised but essentially free, with custodians whose job it is to help new arrivals learn about Australia and monitor their activity, help them with medical and emotional issues they've no doubt experienced., taking them on day trips and s*** with GPS anklets or something. Anyone who is a ratbag will attempt to escape this minimum security, be arrested and deported.

Surely this could be no more expensive than building facilities on random islands and employing people to process arrivals there? Can we at least TRY to be nice?

But regardless - the policy position is about 'stopping the boats' not 'how do we deal with asylum seekers who reach our shores'.
Amen. Clearly the anti- "boat people" bandwagon is driven by xenophobia, why not just man up and take that position (that the right simply do not want refugees here) to an election? It seems like such a move would actually be quite popular with a good portion of the population.

Exactly. I could almost respect a 'f*** you we're full' policy, at least it would be honest.
05:47pm 28/06/13 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2373 posts
I literally just typed the above post and went straight to abc.net.au news and saw this:

He is taking my advice!
Not sure why the link says school reforms but it about how "stop the boats" can affect our relationship with Indo...

GO KRUDDLER!

Now while you are at it, I would like a large tax refund please....aaaand go!
05:50pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20092 posts
Now while you are at it, I would like a large tax refund please....aaaand go!


brace yourself to pay more tax. that's how Australia pays for free housing and medical for all our new friends...
05:59pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14086 posts
brace yourself to pay more tax. that's how Australia pays for free housing and medical for all our new friends...

So with a page or so of discussion of UNHCR obligations and criticism of the stupid 'stop the boats' rhetoric, this is what you comment on?

Come on infi, I want to know the opinion here from the party faithful.

Should we withdraw from the Convention? Its literally an invitation to arrive by boat.
06:07pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
318 posts
Not sure why the link says school reforms but it about how "stop the boats" can affect our relationship with Indo...


The libs are already throwing a tantrum over those comments demanding that he retract the statement. The problem is it's true but they can't see the people for the "illegal refugees".

@ara
I think you are mixing up the Iraq and Afgan conflicts.


How so? Neither were sanctioned by the UN.

One was a terrorist witch hunt which ended up being the US deposing a regime in the Taliban whom I might add are now having talks with the Afghan government on a peace process. Fat lot of good the US and their allies going in there eh?

The other being a WMD witch hunt. Where are those WMD's by the way? Fat lot of good the US and their allies going in there eh? Brought instability to a region causing massive civilian casualties. Ever wonder why George Bush senior didn't depose Saddam?

Back to the supposed illegals and the boats. My family emigrated here in 51. Were processed on the mainland (a camp in Northam) and even back then the attitude of the Aussies at the time was the same as it was now. Only it was more popular to call European refugees Nazi's which was the exact thing they were running away from.

Same when my Mrs parents emigrated here in the 80's. They were escaping communism but, yep, you guessed it. They were accused of being communists by the Aussies.

Now it's the flavour of the day to call anyone who emigrates here a terrorist. Only now, a large number of those coming here are escaping wars we started, or the aftermath of wars we started.

Either way I'm glad that Rudd is serving it up to Abbott. It's about time someone did it.
06:13pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20093 posts
The party faithful:
- hate illegal entrants - it's queue jumping no matter what you or any UNHCR report says
- respect our country having some CONTROL over who comes into our borders
- hate the fact that our taxes pay for free s*** for other people who don't even live here
- hate the fact that Indonesia has a thriving economy in areas courtesy of economic refugees seeking a lifestyle change
- hate the fact that people get onto these boats paying tens of thousands of dollars knowing there is a high likelihood they wont get taken to their destination or they may die and they still do it - and then Aussies have to answer their distress calls from their own greed and stupidity (we don't like it when we have to undertake expensive needless rescues of our own sailors).

I would be all for withdrawing from the convention. Spending billions of dollars on refugees when our indigenous folk still have major issues. It's nuts.
06:17pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
278 posts
I'm actually trying to find any evidence of this, can someone help me out?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsworthy_Barracks_terror_plot

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/barracks-terror-three-should-have-got-life-20130617-2odqf.html

Aweys, who came to Australia in 1998 after spending six years in a refugee camp in Ethiopia and is married with four children, claimed "everyone was happy" with the Black Saturday bushfires on February 7 "as a punishment for this country".
El Sayed, who came to Australia in 2007 and is married with one child, had portrayed himself at the Preston mosque as a charitable, devout, good Muslim man when he was secretly involved in the terrorist plot.


The third man had only been in Australia 3 months.
06:20pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6570 posts
Tony Abbott: Malcolm Turnbull Invented The Internet In Australia

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/06/tony-abbott-malcolm-turnbull-invented-the-internet-in-australia/

“We have a strong and credible broadband policy because the man who has devised it, the man who will implement it virtually invented the Internet in this country. Thank you so much, Malcolm Turnbull.”
06:28pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20094 posts
So are you saying Abbott made an exaggerated claim like

"There will no no Carbon Tax under a government I lead" or

"Climate change is the biggesst moral challenge of our time" or

"The burgers taste better at Hungry Jack's"

ZOMG STOP THE PRESSES
06:31pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
319 posts
So are you saying Abbott made an exaggerated claim like "There will no no Carbon Tax under a government I lead" or"Climate change is the biggesst moral challenge of our time" or"The burgers taste better at Hungry Jack's"ZOMG STOP THE PRESSES


I prefer Abbott's gaff when he said "if it's not written down, it's not true" referring to the fact that everything he says is a lie unless he writes it down. Yet you ignore that but call Julia "Juliar".

Also, Gillard's claim Re the carbon tax was compromised for the fact that she had to deal with the greens and independents to form a minority government. Why do you think Abbott wasn't able to form a minority government?
06:39pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14087 posts
So are you saying Abbott made an exaggerated claim like "There will no no Carbon Tax under a government I lead" or"Climate change is the biggesst moral challenge of our time" or"The burgers taste better at Hungry Jack's"ZOMG STOP THE PRESSES

So, about that 'stop the boats' policy infi? Any thoughts for us on the illegality of asylum seeking, and our role and responsibilities as signatories to the Refugee Convention?

Wouldn't the easiest way to 'stop the boats' be to just ditch the convention and make the act of arriving by boat a crime?
Tony: "It just underlines the point that if Australians want to see a change of government then they have to vote out their Labor member."

Holy s*** why didn't I think of that! Genius!
06:57pm 28/06/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18311 posts
20mm deck gun rounds would sort this who boat problem out
07:05pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14088 posts
20mm deck gun rounds would sort this who boat problem out

Yeh but we need to get rid of the convention first, I'm pretty sure killing arrivals is a breach?
07:06pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20095 posts
Simply need to withdraw from the convention. It gives us control over our borders. At the moment the tail is wagging the dog.
07:39pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35944 posts
apprently infi is from australia in the 1940's!
07:43pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
116 posts
I'm actually trying to find any evidence of this, can someone help me out? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsworthy_Barracks_terror_plot http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/barracks-terror-three-should-have-got-life-20130617-2odqf.html Aweys, who came to Australia in 1998 after spending six years in a refugee camp in Ethiopia and is married with four children, claimed "everyone was happy" with the Black Saturday bushfires on February 7 "as a punishment for this country". El Sayed, who came to Australia in 2007 and is married with one child, had portrayed himself at the Preston mosque as a charitable, devout, good Muslim man when he was secretly involved in the terrorist plot. The third man had only been in Australia 3 months.


Nowhere does it say any of them arrived by boat. All of them were Australian citizens and look to have developed their fundamentalism locally. This article also from fairfax says El Sayed was born in Melbourne.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/terror-on-tap-20101223-196i2.html

In any case that plot just supports my point. That terrorist aren't arriving by boat as terrorists. I'm not saying terrorism can't come from those that have arrived as refugees originally. I'm saying its stupid and pointless to send a trained operative on a risky boat trip when there are much better means.
08:07pm 28/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11368 posts
May I ask what is the reason for 'controlling the borders' in the first place? Why can't someone choose to be an Australian citizen and that's the end of it?
Warning: any obstacle you suggest to me probably has a better solution than whatever the government does now.
08:38pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14090 posts
Nowhere does it say any of them arrived by boat. All of them were Australian citizens and look to have developed their fundamentalism locally. This article also from fairfax says El Sayed was born in Melbourne.

Hahah didn't you hear, all swarthy-lookin people are innigants!
Simply need to withdraw from the convention. It gives us control over our borders. At the moment the tail is wagging the dog.

I got nothing. Seriously, dude, what the f***.
09:04pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20096 posts
Would it be ok to take 1 million refugees in Australia?
09:10pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6266 posts
Hyperbole much?

Also, this is the first election ever that I wont be preferenceing the Coalition over ALP. (But still above Greens)
09:28pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3751 posts
Why 1 million? why not 10 million?
If an international crisis called for it, perhaps. We're a part of the international community, after all. I don't understand the negative view against refugees.
09:28pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13873 posts
Wow, Tony has already started attacking the ALP and basically calling people names, it is all he has been doing for the last 3 years it seems. Here was his chance to change strategy for the better and bring on his policies, to pull the spotlight on his government being pretty stable and solid expierence..

But no, instead he just does what amounts to dropping school yard insults, and you want this man as your countries leader? I'd rather Krudd as a leader than Tony, yeah year the party is the thing but it still has a leader that represents the nation. You want it to be Tony and his I don't really have much in the way of policies because I spend all my time bagging out other people. That guy.
09:33pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20098 posts
Vash, who pays to house feed and provide medical care to 1 million refugees? And it isn't hyperbole much, Indonesia with 300m people is our next door neighbour.
09:41pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
279 posts
May I ask what is the reason for 'controlling the borders' in the first place? Why can't someone choose to be an Australian citizen and that's the end of it?Warning: any obstacle you suggest to me probably has a better solution than whatever the government does now.


Yeh lets not control our borders! Just let everyone and anyone fly/boat/swim to Australian shores and come out onto the streets without any checks, passports, visa's or anything like that.

What could possibly go wrong with a surge of 100+ million people coming to Australia for work from third world countries? /rollseyes

If you actually have to ask "what is the reason for controlling our borders" there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you. It's why retards in groups such as the Greens etc can't seem to understand that willingly letting people just swamp our shores unchecked is a retarded idea.
09:44pm 28/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11373 posts
Well did anyone check you? What if you were to have a million babies? Why are they 'our' shores? Who decided that and isn't it a little unfair that the refugees didn't get a say in that? Don't we need people to do work? They'd probably do it for room and board, lets work something out.

Isn't this really about being afraid of darkies? Seems like it's pretty easy to get in from a white country.
09:55pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20099 posts
Why is this constantly a race thing. I don't care about race, I care about expecting entry without doing any paperwork or preparation. Just turning up. And under the guise of asylum these economic refugees can just take a number thanks. To compare a refugee claiming to be from Sri Lanka that travels thousands of kilometers, hops numerous countries and lays a people smuggler ten thousand dollars to get to Australia vs. A Syrian that packed their bag and fled to Lebanon or Jordan. One is fair dinkum and the other is just setting themselves up.
10:05pm 28/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10396 posts
Rudd claims turning back the boats could lead to War with Indonesia.
HES ALREADY OUTTA CONTROL
10:37pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10044 posts
Why is this constantly a race thing. I don't care about race, I care about expecting entry without doing any paperwork or preparation

Are you stupid or being deceptive ?

People coming by boat pay far more than the plane entrants, and spend a lot longer getting here.
11:46pm 28/06/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10045 posts
everyone who wants the boats stopped for some reason is racist? that's kind of an exaggeration, and an untestable proposition anyway

I gave 3 options insom?
You chose to misrepresent that ...

We are well under "refugeed" ... we have very few boats rocking up on our doorstep to pretend otherwise has an agenda. What's yours insom ? Perhaps my 3 didn't get your position ? ... explain away ? ...
11:54pm 28/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
280 posts
Well did anyone check you? What if you were to have a million babies? Why are they 'our' shores? Who decided that and isn't it a little unfair that the refugees didn't get a say in that? Don't we need people to do work? They'd probably do it for room and board, lets work something out.Isn't this really about being afraid of darkies? Seems like it's pretty easy to get in from a white country.


What a terrible strawman argument =\ Can't tell if you are trolling or actually being serious..........

Rudd claims turning back the boats could lead to War with Indonesia.
HES ALREADY OUTTA CONTROL


Great logic from the Labor party isn't it? Turning back an Indonesian boat on its way to Australia could cause a war. It's laughable.

It's the same stupid logic that thermite has where he asks "why do we need to control our borders"
11:55pm 28/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20100 posts
Thermite is not being serious. It's a faulty humour like when he tries to tell foreign jokes translated into English.

People coming by boat pay far more than the plane entrants, and spend a lot longer getting here.


Hey they have paid fair and square for their free housing food and medical!
12:01am 29/06/13 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3502 posts
It really says something absolutely terrible about the Liberal Party that the direction this thread has gone is their main contribution to national discourse.
12:06am 29/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20101 posts
Keep in mind Labor's policy will move more to the right on this issue. Why? Because it's what Australians want. Rudd is being pressured by back benchers to change many of their current policies back closer to the Coalition.
12:14am 29/06/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11374 posts
What a terrible strawman argument =\ Can't tell if you are trolling or actually being serious..........


I'm serious and not even vaguely a strawman, since we're not having an argument?

Why is this constantly a race thing. I don't care about race, I care about expecting entry without doing any paperwork or preparation. Just turning up.


But whyyyy?

It seems like people in Australia just don't want other people also being in Australia? It is surely some sort of irrational fear type thing, if not xenophobia then something else along those lines? Like when you like a band and then other people like it so then you get annoyed.
12:22am 29/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10397 posts
The Refugee thang is a vote winner in the Western Sydney seats.
That's why Labor is looking for a quick solution.

12:22am 29/06/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4279 posts
I gotta tell ya i am all for keeping tight controls on immigration but seriously dont we have more.pressing issues than illegal immigrants? Id point the finger at 457 visas before picking on boats people. Even then there are more important things like health and education and aged care and how we look after our aging citizens tbat have made a life of contributing to the country.
12:43am 29/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20102 posts
Even then there are more important things like health and education and aged care and how we look after our aging citizens tbat have made a life of contributing to the country.


We could use the $1.2b that has blown out in refugee costs on those things you mentioned. ... That's also an answer to thermite's intentionally obtuse but whyyyy.
12:45am 29/06/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4280 posts
What bugs me about the boat people issue is certain politicians use it as a red herring to distract people from more pressing s***. It stirs up emotion well beyond what it actually should and those dirty f*****s know it. Its simply become a cheap thoughtless means of drumming up bulls*** votes and it makes us all look like idiots, which as it happens goes on to feed our politicians belief thats that is is exactly what we are. How else can you explain Abbotts ability to look like a giant dunce in front of a camera yet somehow maintain his position as lib leader, its f*****g embarrassing.
01:21am 29/06/13 Permalink
Infidel
Netherlands
4068 posts
Can someone explain how someone as idiotic as Abbot is liberal leader? There's a lot of others to pick from, Turnbull has more than half the braincell Abott has, Costello could explain policies better than what's being done so far.
05:56am 29/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35946 posts
waaaah, i dont want to pay EVEN MOAR TAX to deal with these poor people.

ITS OUTRAGEOUS AND IMPACTING ON THE QUALITY OF MY AWESOME LIFE.

waaaah.
06:35am 29/06/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2168 posts
Can someone explain how someone as idiotic as Abbot is liberal leader?
One single solitary person in the caucus liked him more than they did Turnbull.

That's the sad reality that oddly enough is not mentioned much.
07:20am 29/06/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4282 posts
So he got in by a vote in his own party that was slimmer than that which got gillard in laat election taking people from outside her own party. Thats pretty funny, i wonder if any of the libs who voted for him now feel like total d*******s?
09:05am 29/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35948 posts
unless they are d*******s themselves, youd have to hope so.
09:19am 29/06/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4283 posts
Bit of a double edged blade that is though unfortunately.

I am not a lib fan by any stretch of the imagination but i kind of liked ole Mal, at least he had something to say and didnt go outright catatonic when he was asked a hard question. S*** id prefer abbott to say no comment because at least that shows some kind of thought. As it stand right now the only thing thats seems to be on his mind when a hard question gets asked is RUN!!!!
09:25am 29/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20104 posts
So he got in by a vote in his own party that was slimmer than that which got gillard in laat election taking people from outside her own party. Thats pretty funny,


What's funny is that Mal copped it on the chin and united behind his leader. Rudd was a sore loser, destabilised the party during the 2010 election, leaked continuously behind Gillard's back and then was rewarded for this treachery by being rehanded the leadership.

That is what you call a toxic organisational culture.
03:08pm 29/06/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4251 posts
We are well under "refugeed" ... we have very few boats rocking up on our doorstep to pretend otherwise has an agenda. What's yours insom ? Perhaps my 3 didn't get your position ? ... explain away ? ...

my position is it's not about race, it's about reducing the dangerous practice of people smuggling

if it were a bunch of poms and other white people rocking up in boats we'd still be concerned about it, or at least I prefer to think so - but again this is an untestable proposition because it would never happen
03:17pm 29/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
281 posts
Screaming "OMG RACIST" is just the lazy argument for people who support an open borders policy, "anyone can come straight in and walk on down the street" policy. It usually comes from the Greens and other far left wing extremist groups.
03:37pm 29/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13878 posts
That is what you call a toxic organisational culture.


So is one where the leader of a party continually attacks another party, over and over and over. To try and pull them down as far as possible. Instead of just going on about what their party can do and how they are better. This is what is called a toxic organisation.

Both political parties do it. I don't even know of the Liberals policies very much. Going to their website doesn't help, it is just spam of how bad Labor is, that is pretty bad. You want this sort of thing as the leading organisation of our country? I don't.
04:07pm 29/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20105 posts
This is what is called a toxic organisation.


The Coalition has heaps of policy, published and available. The media is not interested in that, they prefer a bloodsport. Not to mention, the Government is the one with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of public servants running the country, the Opposition has ZERO resources for policy development.

A Coalition provides transparency and scrutiny to the Government. It is expected to identify the Government's faults and test the strength of the Government's baloney figures like their surpluses they trot out every budget based on pure fiction, much like a defense tests the prosecution's case.

This is not a hand holding ceremony. Government is serious business and there will be some cuts and bruises. If you cannot handle the attacks, don't make outlandish policy claims and when you f*** up admit it instead of pretending that's what you intended all along....

I would submit that the Opposition's close scrutiny of Rudd and Gillard's monumental failures show a) they are ready to govern because they are equally across the material and b) is what an Opposition is expected to do otherwise all the government's f***ups would go uncriticised in Parliament and then you would be complaining the only opposition we have is The Australian Newspaper.
04:16pm 29/06/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13881 posts
Nahh I don't buy that at all.
05:26pm 29/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20106 posts
Do you expect the Oppossition to ignore all of the government's f***ups?
05:32pm 29/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
924 posts
What could possibly go wrong with a surge of 100+ million people coming to Australia for work from third world countries? /rollseyes


I really struggle to understand this. For a start 100+ million yeah what ever. But even if they did come in those numbers what do you think would actually happen?

Emigration is categorically a good thing. Emigration turned the USA into a super power, send us your poor, your sick, your huddled masses ring a bell?

Ireland was a third world country when they started emigrating en masse. The result, a massive cheap labour force.

I get bringing a bit of order to control crime and disease but locking people up for years at a time is f*****g retarded. The cost just isn't justified by the supposed risks.
07:22pm 29/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
282 posts
But even if they did come in those numbers what do you think would actually happen?


Well for starters, there would be no Australia as a nation because you have 100 million new people who have different cultures/different allegiances. Do you think 100 million people would instantly share the Australian culture/way and have allegiance to Australia the second they immigrate here now?

Even now with our immigration program, large portions of immigrants that come here don't share our values(democracy etc) and don't have allegiance their new country and even some hate us.

Demographics determine the culture/values of a country.
07:34pm 29/06/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
925 posts
Yeah and people who are like 9th generation Boston still identify as Irish dude.

It's really not the deal you think it is.
07:37pm 29/06/13 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3503 posts
How Infi thinks the current opposition appear (particularly Abbott):
http://i.imgur.com/szYtyYf.jpg

How Abbott actually appears:
http://i.imgur.com/jWHUh6B.jpg

Sure all the media is interested in bloodsport, but that's why when you're asked a question you turn it around into a proposal of what should be done. Present a clear alternative rather than trying to default into an electoral win. Maybe people would actually respect politicians then... maybe. Either way, I would submit that he constant negatives show they are too scared to commit themselves to a particular approach, and therefore they are not ready to lead.
12:45am 30/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20107 posts
Do you expect the Oppossition to ignore all of the government's f***ups?


HI FRIEND
12:56am 30/06/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2970 posts
Here's 12 minutes of Tony Abbott not f*****g up, but merely being Tony Abbott - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WqnTrG204
08:42am 30/06/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1004 posts
Here's 12 minutes of Tony Abbott not f*****g up, but merely being Tony Abbott - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WqnTrG204


Ahaha, the old dude at the end in the shops was the best.

Mal Fraser/Paul Keating are spot on at the end. Labor are so useless on promoting what they've achieved and giving it back to the Liberals. They should probably hire the ex-PMs as speach writers.
09:35am 30/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35950 posts
argh, i got about 4 minutes into that video and had to turn it off :(

10:23am 30/06/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1005 posts
10:57am 30/06/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7371 posts
tony can be a tool but he has the support of his party and is surrounded by extremely capable people. he also seeks out and follows the advice of those who are experts in areas he isn't familiar with. being a good prime minister shouldn't necessarily be about personally having all of the answers. it is about being able to lead well and maintaining control of those in his party in order to provide an efficient and unified government that is capable of getting things done, which he can. people get so hung up on 'oh, tony's a woman hating god nut that will impose his personal ideals on the country,' which simply isn't the case.
11:37am 30/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20109 posts
but kevin does that thing
12:11pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14091 posts
tony can be a tool but he has the support of his party and is surrounded by extremely capable people.
...
people get so hung up on 'oh, tony's a woman hating god nut that will impose his personal ideals on the country,' which simply isn't the case.

Yeh I'm not worried so much about him authoring policy, because he is clearly incapable of that. Its him talking to world leaders and diplomats as our nation's leader that gives me the heeby f*****g jeebies.

Is the blank stare going to be his go-to during tense negotiations?
02:44pm 30/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
283 posts
It's hilarious watching people parrot "omg tony is so bad" "omg he is an idiot" when there is nothing really to justify it. He's already proven himself as capable. He was a minister in 2 different ministries in a very successful government. He's also clearly very intelligent. They don't give Rhodes scholars out to any person.

.Is the blank stare going to be his go-to during tense negotiations?


The blank stare is only reserved for idiot journalists who try to take things out of context for "gotcha" type journalism. It works very well doesn't it?
03:00pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35951 posts
He's also clearly very intelligent.

lulz
03:01pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20923 posts
It works very well doesn't it?


Obviously, because it gained him a lot of respect and didn't make him look like an idiot at all.
03:13pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6573 posts
Tony Abbott has ducked a challenge to debate Kevin Rudd on the economy.
Asked on Network Ten whether he would accept the prime minister's offer to debate him next week at the National Press Club, Mr Abbott said it was more important that Mr Rudd name the election date.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-ducks-rudds-call-for-economy-debate-20130630-2p4w9.html

Goes to show how much of a coward Abbott really is by not wanting to debate something as important as economics is as it will show how little he knows before an election.
03:14pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3752 posts
I'm so looking forward to the election debate. He gets really flustered during hard interviews.
03:18pm 30/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10400 posts
He is depriving Rudd of face to face airtime.
Rudd is very good at debating Abbott not so good.

Debate the Economy ?
The only reason we don't resemble Britain is the Mining Boom and the masses of money flowing into Government coffers.
Yet Labor couldn't manage the Surplus they promised.
That really is all that needs to be said about the Economy.
03:20pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Vash
3753 posts
You're forgetting the GFC that came a year after Labor got into power. Howard was riding the wave of the mining boom, and according to the IMF, Howard was more wasteful than all recent Labor governments.
The stimulus was expensive, but required, and now the economy is now seeing a downturn, it's obvious it wont be easy to return to surplus.
03:29pm 30/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10401 posts
Labor spent the paycheck before it came in.
If the GFC was such a big concern then why didn't Labor spend less ?



03:36pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14092 posts
The blank stare is only reserved for idiot journalists who try to take things out of context for "gotcha" type journalism. It works very well doesn't it?

Umm, he looks like a f***wit in the interview.

Was that the goal?
03:45pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
117 posts
Posts: 10401 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Labor spent the paycheck before it came in. If the GFC was such a big concern then why didn't Labor spend less ?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/grogonomics/2013/jun/28/austerity-talk-the-talk-hockey
04:10pm 30/06/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20110 posts
The blank stare is only reserved for idiot journalists who try to take things out of context for "gotcha" type journalism. It works very well doesn't it?


the real irony is that Rudd makes a dismissive and childish remark like "I've gotta zip." every time he is confronted with issues he doesn't want to discuss, the media is cool with that. I love when Tony doesn't answer stupid journo questions and treats them with the contempt they deserve. Fair Shake of the Sauce Bottle? WTF does that even mean, it did not exist in the Australian lexicon prior to Rudd saying it.

I now get to republish all of the Ruddbot articles I have diligently filed away.
05:42pm 30/06/13 Permalink
carson
Gippsland, Victoria
1960 posts
Oh man. This is going to be a great election.
06:15pm 30/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
284 posts
It just goes to show how stupid Australian voters are when Labors vote increaes 10% just because of a leader change. Screw their crap policies, countless mistakes and childish behaviour.
06:32pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35952 posts
kruddler <3
06:45pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Infidel
Netherlands
4069 posts
I doubt people are parroting that Abbot would not make a good PM, just watch some of the various interviews and question time ... you can't present yourself during these occassions then it doesn't bode well. The excuse that he has great people backing him, well that's what I mean those people should be at the front if they want my vote. Basically at the moment it seems you've got choice between a 'turd sandwich and a douche bag'.

If a captain of a ship has no idea how to read sea conditions, manage crew and doing the functions on a boat there will be trouble. The same goes for many other leadership positions such as prime ministerships.
08:11pm 30/06/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
285 posts
The RoboRudd is back, the same 2010 one journos and voters hated. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/same-old-robot-rudd/story-fni0cwl5-1226671888389
08:48pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6132 posts
If a captain of a ship has no idea how to read sea conditions, manage crew and doing the functions on a boat there will be trouble. The same goes for many other leadership positions such as prime ministerships.


I certainly like the Abbott = Captain Pugwash analogy.
That'd mean Rudd = Cut Throat Jake, a fitting moniker at this point in time.
09:36pm 30/06/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11013 posts
Oh no the right wing Murdoch owned Daily Telegraph is saying bad things about the ALP prime minister! Stop the presses!
09:39pm 30/06/13 Permalink
hast2
UK
1286 posts
we might be quite low on the list when it comes to letting in asylum seekers but we do quite well when it comes to general immigration. ultimately, we have to deal with the reality that their is strong anti-foreign bias in the electorate. i think it is much better to take 1/3 of the number of asylum seekers and let in twice as many immigrations. take a look at Sweden which is high on the asylum list. it has a net migration of 1.65 while we have a net migration of 5.93. also take a look at the percentage of foreign born people by country. we have similar levels of foreign born people (19.93) to canada (18.76), new zealand (15.48) and the only 'european' state higher than us is switzerland with 22.89. australia is able to let in such high numbers of immigrants by channeling the electorate's anti-foreign bias against a small group of immigrants.
10:48pm 30/06/13 Permalink
hast2
UK
1287 posts
and look at what happens when scapegoating boat people becomes a less effective political strategy. political parties start coming after the general immigration programs like 457 visas. if you want to help people outside of australia the best strategy is to sacrifice a small number to appease the anti-foreign bias in the electorate while running massive general immigration programs.
10:57pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Infidel
Netherlands
4070 posts
Lol dais pretty cool your analogy
11:01pm 30/06/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10402 posts
From peterthepossums link:

KRuddMP's inflated self importance had not translated to any achievements. Instead there was the Copenhagen climate summit and the "ratf#@r" Chinese, the delay of the ETS, the Oceanic Viking standoff which re-started the people smuggler trade, the pink batts debacle, the school halls waste, the 2020 summit which came to nothing.

And the small stories which leaked out of unreasonable private behaviour: reducing an air hostess to tears, making important people like Defence boss Angus Houston wait for hours outside his office, sidelining his colleagues. Tony Abbott had the measure of him earlier than most, which is why Rudd's colleagues ousted him, before the public wisened up.


FAIR SHAKE OF THE SAUCE BOTTLE
11:16pm 30/06/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4286 posts
The 4:15 mark of that video to the 4:20 mark is some of the most painfull video i think i have ever seen from a public figure. Thr guy is near catatonic, seriously how can anyone f*****g vote for that?
12:25am 01/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
286 posts
From peterthepossums link:



FAIR SHAKE OF THE SAUCE BOTTLE


He left Angus Houston waiting outside his office for 8 hours............ that speaks volumes about his ego. Thinks people have plenty of time just to wait around for him.

Edit: Looks like Australians arent so stupid after all.

MOST Australians believe Kevin Rudd is still the chaotic and dysfunctional leader he was accused of being by dissident colleagues who publicly attacked him before his first leadership challenge in February last year. http://www.news.com.au/national-news/galaxy-daily-telegraph-poll-reveals-voters-dont-believe-kevin-rudd-has-changed-since-first-stint-as-pm/story-fncynjr2-1226672232561


WHOOMP, THERE IT IS
01:26am 01/07/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1460 posts
06:10am 01/07/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2768 posts
You guys supporting the Liberals I can at least understand, but to constantly defend that weirdo Abbott is just funny.

This is the guy who is supposed to represent our country and he can't even react to a question he doesn't like from a regular journalist without standing there in silence, twitching like a psycho for an incredibly uncomfortable amount of time. What's he going to do when an important world leader asks him a question he doesn't like? Full-on epileptic fit maybe?

You can say that the journalist was being unnecessarily emotive or that the question was unfairly loaded or any number of excuses, but none of them explain why he didn't just calmly reply to that sentiment and walk away. None of that can explain his twitching psychotically for 30 seconds in complete silence.

I know you guys desperately want the party you support to win the election, but is it really worth the indignity of trying to keep a straight face while claiming that Abbott is a normal guy who will make a good leader and representative of our country?
08:40am 01/07/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2971 posts
I've said it and I'll say it again. Tony Abbott is the Australian version of George W. Bus**
11:01am 01/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14093 posts
I'd probably prefer Dubya to Abbott. I saw him a few times on US talk shows during his first election campaign and he actually comes across as a warm, genuine guy in an informal situation. He's one of those strangely interesting people I'd like to have a beer with someday to talk to and get a sense of the man.

Abbott always looks awkward and twitchy the moment he has to go off carefully prepared statements.
11:06am 01/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20111 posts
Abbott always looks awkward and twitchy the moment he has to go off carefully prepared statements.


as compared to Rudd who just threatens war with Indonesia...
11:09am 01/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14094 posts
as compared to Rudd who just threatens war with Indonesia...

I thought what he said was that in his opinion the Coalition's confrontational attitude to stopping the boats - by forcefully turning ships back to Indonesian waters - would strain the relationship in the Timor Sea.

As much as Indonesian diplomats demurred and said it wasn't so, I don't see how upping the ante between Australian war vessels and Indonesian merchant shipping wouldn't strain relations?

Anyway infi, you mentioned (in a passing, throwaway kinda way) that the Coalition has lots of awesome policy. Care to take the time out to spruik these policies, or is your QGL political time solely about shots at Labor? Lets hear about it, all I know to date is that we get less internets, gays can't marry and the budget's gonna get slashed.

Is there anything aspirational in there? And no, don't tell me to go read it myself, this is the whole problem with your side of politics, you don't seem to be selling your alternate vision with any sort of enthusiasm. We get that you hate Labor, after 5 pages we really do, can you please explain what's good about the Coalition's side of the chamber?

Or is the whole story really some broad, placeholder policy while you step up the attack machine and hope nobody looks behind the curtain or thinks too hard about Abbott in the big chair?
11:53am 01/07/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20924 posts
I thought taking shots at Labor IS the Coalition's policy? Well, that and 'stop the boats'.
12:02pm 01/07/13 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
7192 posts
'fair shake of the sauce bottle' seems like a useable australian colloquialism. i applaud the krudd for it's original implementation!
12:07pm 01/07/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7618 posts
I thought taking shots at Labor IS the Coalition's policy? Well, that and 'stop the boats'.

Abbott parroting "stop the boats" is not that different to Hodor grunting "Hodor".
12:10pm 01/07/13 Permalink
ctd
Brisbane, Queensland
10433 posts
12:26pm 01/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10403 posts
Its not about genuine refugees
its about a failed policy that lures desperate people to roll the dice and take a risk to travel here on dodgy Boats run by Organised Crime in Indonesia.

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/detention3_thumb.jpg
12:30pm 01/07/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7372 posts
He's also clearly very intelligent.

lulz

dude was a rhodes scholar. might be socially retarded but lacking intelligence he is not.
12:30pm 01/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20112 posts
hogfather: http://liberal.org.au/real-solutions/

liberals have plenty of policy, but that doesn't interest a) the media; or b) the voter so it's not highly sought after.

I am particularly keen to seen workplace relations policy rectified given the abortion that labor has created.

If KRudd wasn't straigh out shooting from the hip why would he mention the Konfrontasi? The guy is a loose cannon. He loves to talk and sound like he knows more but he really is just shooting his mouth off.
12:40pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4287 posts
I thought taking shots at Labor IS the Coalition's policy? Well, that and 'stop the boats'.


That's sums their entire campaign strategy for the past 20 years and its f*****g pathetic. Anyone recall that incredibly juvenile ad they ran some years back that had a loop of Gareth Evens dancing in an attempt to demean him? It was kind of funny in a childish way but it left me feeling like is this the best they've got? I am sorry but I simply can't respect that
12:50pm 01/07/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4233 posts
liberals have plenty of policy, but that doesn't interest a) the media; or b) the voter so it's not highly sought after.

Their main problem is that they don't convey it very well.

They need better spin doctors to teach Abbott and co how to get the message across.
12:56pm 01/07/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7374 posts
campaign ads by both major parties have always been pathetic and childish. to claim one is any worse than the other is fairly one eyed. australian politics in general is pretty f*****g lame.
01:07pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14095 posts
hogfather: http://liberal.org.au/real-solutions/liberals have plenty of policy, but that doesn't interest a) the media; or b) the voter so it's not highly sought after.I am particularly keen to seen workplace relations policy rectified given the abortion that labor has created.

Snipped out the obligatory shot at Labor, trying to keep this focused here :)

What exactly are the intended workplace reforms? The link you sent me to sends me to a PDF at http://lpa.webcontent.s3.amazonaws.com/realsolutions/LPA%20Policy%20Booklet%20210x210_pages.pdf that appears to be completely and entirely fluff, lots of broad talk about the problems and listening to the community and talking about coming up with solutions, and think tanks and commissions once they are in power .... but no actual detail?

For example it goes on at length about productivity issues, working days lost, militarisation of the workforce etc, says they will be changing stuff to address this ... but doesn't say what will be really be changed in terms of legislation? Is this Work Choices?

Same deal with the 'back in the black' s***. What exactly will be cut, or what taxes will be added, to make this happen? All we know so far is the carbon tax is out ... but we're keeping the related rebates and offsets somehow. Also income tax cuts.

Details guys? What will be axed?
We will get businesses growing by cutting red tape costs to businesses by $1 billion each year

Sounds great! I'm a businessman! ... which tape is being cut, though?

Why does page 34 have a graph of electricity price increases under Labor? What does Federal Labor have to do with the local provision of electricity by private enterprise?!

Something stood out on page 8:
We have a detailed plan to build a world class 5-Pillar economy that will deliver more jobs and generate the real wealth necessary to finance better government services for Australian families.

Sounds great! So where the f*** is it?
01:08pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6942 posts
'We don't know what to cut until we get into power, but we just know there are things that need to be cut.'
01:18pm 01/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1007 posts
liberals have plenty of policy, but that doesn't interest a) the media; or b) the voter so it's not highly sought after.


It's pretty high level and doesn't contain much details, especially the direct action plan.
01:59pm 01/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
287 posts
Doug Cameron, the far left wing socialist is a new pick in Rudds cabinet. What a great pick /rollseyes

You guys supporting the Liberals I can at least understand, but to constantly defend that weirdo Abbott is just funny.This is the guy who is supposed to represent our country and he can't even react to a question he doesn't like from a regular journalist without standing there in silence


He did react to it, infact he responded 3 times to it yet the idiot journalist kept going on with it despite Tony telling him he had completely taken what Tony said out of context and that he won't be indulging in "gotcha" journalism. The journalist obviously didn't get the message so Tony stood and stared at him.

I do the same thing myself. If i keep having to repeat myself to someone i just stand and stare at them blankely. When they say "wtf" i say "I'v already answered you" in this case, Tony said "I'v given you the answer you deserve"

I thought what he said was that in his opinion the Coalition's confrontational attitude to stopping the boats - by forcefully turning ships back to Indonesian waters - would strain the relationship in the Timor Sea.


That's just absolute crap. Turning an Indonesian boat around and turning it back to Indonesia which is the country the ship belongs to wouldn't cause "war" or "confrontation"

"OMG, THEY SENT OUR BOAT BACK WE BETTER SEND THE NAVY OUT" The s*** logic is just hilarious.

The Australian government just needs to grow a backbone and stop groveling to the Indonesians. State the facts, which is that illegal boats depart Indonesia aided by the Indonesian authorities. They are Indonesia's boats so they will be turned around and sent back. Don't like it? BAD LUCK. Stop your authorities from facilitating people smuggling.
02:01pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4288 posts
campaign ads by both major parties have always been pathetic and childish. to claim one is any worse than the other is fairly one eyed. australian politics in general is pretty f*****g lame.



that's complete bulls***, find me an ad where labor has got a lib on a loop dancing looking like a complete f*****g tool. Negative campaigning is a hallmark of the libs and has been for a very long time now the ALP hasn't come anywhere close to sinking to the same level of bulls***.

Dude please find me at least one ad that comes close to what we've sat through from the libs in past years. I don't have to find any of the libs doing because its a commonly known fact that that's how they do s***.
03:22pm 01/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20114 posts
Hogfather, it is basic politics to not release all policies before an election but the Coalition has released many detailed policies. As to workplace relations which is all I really care about I found it easily.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=liberal+workplace+relations+policy
05:21pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14096 posts
Hogfather, it is basic politics to not release all policies before an election

How are we supposed to vote on unreleased policies?

Thanks for the angsty LMGTFY there too buddy. You're here spruiking to the voters about the Coalition and I'm asking for more info, is that the way you talk to people when you're canvassing who want to listen to your message? Might want to work on your manner if so.

Still, another great big, overly wordy document with lots of vague s*** like this:

http://i.imgur.com/TN4gtQp.png

Which options and recommendations guys? When?

I'm a small business owner and these changes actually matter to me, but f***ed if I can find a simple and concise list of what's going to happen to my business if the Libs get in!


I am particularly keen to seen workplace relations policy rectified given the abortion that labor has created.


What, this abortion? The one that doesn't need major changes?

http://i.imgur.com/TH7PkuX.png
05:42pm 01/07/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1464 posts
06:20pm 01/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20115 posts
What, this abortion? The one that doesn't need major changes?


the one that during the process of "award modernisation" they managed to increase all the penalties and allowances. where does all the extra money come from to pay for these? the fair work act has been terrible for employers but unless you are getting f***ed up the ass it won't worry you.

it seems like you are madly in love with kevin so I'm not going to waste any more of my time. good luck.
06:36pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4289 posts
it seems like you are madly in love with kevin so I'm not going to waste any more of my time. good luck.


jesus aint this the pot calling the kettle black.
07:06pm 01/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
289 posts
A typical deceiving campaign from the far left wing Greens lobby. What their little picture doesn't show is the double digit price percentage rises in cost of living areas such as electricity.

No one said "the sky will fall in" however cost of living was said to go up significantly and it has.
07:27pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6946 posts
What their little picture doesn't show is the double digit price percentage rises in cost of living areas such as electricity.
Because that has nothing to do with the carbon tax, it's because of the "gold-plating" of the network.
07:35pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1425 posts
No one said "the sky will fall in" however cost of living was said to go up significantly and it has.
Tony Abbott said "the sky would fall" and places like Whyalla would be wiped off the face of the planet.

You do know the fixed price ETS has added only 0.8% to the cost of living don't you?

BTW I am actually consulting to a power company in your home town, Melbourne, at the moment and I can tell you have no idea why prices have risen.
09:55pm 01/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
290 posts
Because that has nothing to do with the carbon tax, it's because of the "gold-plating" of the network.


lol what? "gold-plating" of the network price rises are separate from the rises im talking about. Since the carbon tax has been introduced prices have gone up further and it IS because of the carbon tax. Even the government have admitted it, hence why they are distributing this so called "house hold assistance package" that doesn't actually out weight the price rises.

Generators pass on 115pc of carbon tax: power report


http://www.afr.com/p/national/generators_pass_on_pc_of_carbon_mKngiAXYdyQZY75WFKxE5J
10:00pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10048 posts
In QLD ... floods have cost more than any carbon or gold plating.
Unless the floods are a result of carbon in which case zomg carbon, hurry up and bring back the drought.
10:04pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6947 posts
lol what? "gold-plating" of the network price rises are separate from the rises im talking about. Since the carbon tax has been introduced prices have gone up further and it IS because of the carbon tax.
You said "double digit percentage rises", the increase due to the carbon tax has been less than 10%. Now have a read of what the Productivity Commision report said:
"Average electricity prices have risen by 70 per cent in real terms from June 2007 to December 2012. Spiralling network costs in most states are the main contributor to these increases, partly driven by inefficiencies in the industry and flaws in the regulatory environment."
10:21pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14097 posts
Isn't the whole point of the carbon tax that energy prices go up so we use less?

We had a shocker bill at the start of the year and stopped being silly now our bill is 5% below the same one last year because we are using less lecky...
10:30pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10051 posts
I should get some form of tax rebate for how long the weeds are in the backyard.
10:57pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20928 posts
The journalist obviously didn't get the message so Tony stood and stared at him.

I do the same thing myself. If i keep having to repeat myself to someone i just stand and stare at them blankely.


Ok, surely you're taking the piss now.


Also, someone mentioned Whyalla, so I feel this video needs reposting. Not as a statement of support or an attack on any particular party, just because its so hilariously bad.

11:31pm 01/07/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4252 posts
Isn't the whole point of the carbon tax that energy prices go up so we use less?

yeah I reckon

"zomg energy prices have risen" well... duh
01:33am 02/07/13 Permalink
BobaFaux
Perth, Western Australia
40 posts
Prices of carbon producing energy should go up under the carbon tax which is the whole point of it. If your power bill is stinging you too much now because of the carbon tax then maybe you should look at getting solar?

Here in Perth Synergy prints on my bill the amount which is carbon tax so I can see exactly how much it is costing me, and for my last bill which was $725.95, the carbon tax was a grand total of.....$62.62 including GST. So that is 8.625% nothing really compared to the 57% between 2009 and 2011 and an estimated further 30% between 2011 and 2014.
02:10am 02/07/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2770 posts
He did react to it, infact he responded 3 times to it yet the idiot journalist kept going on with it despite Tony telling him he had completely taken what Tony said out of context and that he won't be indulging in "gotcha" journalism. The journalist obviously didn't get the message so Tony stood and stared at him.

I do the same thing myself. If i keep having to repeat myself to someone i just stand and stare at them blankely. When they say "wtf" i say "I'v already answered you" in this case, Tony said "I'v given you the answer you deserve"
As I said (and you conveniently ignored):
You can say that the journalist was being unnecessarily emotive or that the question was unfairly loaded or any number of excuses, but none of them explain why he didn't just calmly reply to that sentiment and walk away. None of that can explain his twitching psychotically for 30 seconds in complete silence.

I have no idea what your job is, but I doubt you need to conduct yourself in the manner of someone who is representing their country at the highest level. If you find that you keep having to repeat yourself then you are not being clear enough, either in your answer, or in the fact that you have already given the answer and cannot give any further information. Either way, you are probably just as lacking as Abbott appears to be if you feel that it's appropriate to resort to staring blankly at people.


And as for this:
True you couldn't, but it is true. Like most Australians in 2007, we were drawn into Labor and Kevin Rudd as a fresh new exciting Prime Minister and government with new and exciting ideas. We had 11+ years of Howard and it felt good having a change.
As I said:
Obviously there's no way I could ever know one way or the other (and in the end it's totally inconsequential) but based on your first 274 posts here, there is absolutely nothing you can say that would ever lead me to believe that's actually the truth.

The fact that you are still trying to pretend that Abbott is the right person to lead the country only serves to convince me of that more. I know people who are strong Liberal supporters (and who don't claim that they voted for Rudd), who are fiercely vocal in their opinion that the Liberals will make a better government than the current Labor government, and even those people have enough intelligence and dignity to say that it's obvious that Abbott will not make a strong leader.

Oh and fyi, being a Rhodes Scholar is just a little bit less than zero indication that someone will make a good leader.
06:00am 02/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1008 posts
Soon the libs will have so much policy it will be a bumper sticker.

http://i.imgur.com/HbgBbDU.jpg
08:14am 02/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14098 posts
Joe seems mad, or does he have b****y face?
09:14am 02/07/13 Permalink
Furgle
1038 posts
Without bothering to read most of this s***** thread, one comment on "gold-plating".

I work for a large QLD electricity company. There is no "gold-plating", literally or figuratively.

The govt rules are N-1. That is, for every element in the system, if you take it out of service, there must be enough capacity to route around it. This is why unless there is an extreme weather event, we hardly ever get [non-localised] blackouts any more.

With the removal of this rule, any future network augmentation will not be built to this standard. It will be much cheaper to build, but there will be more blackouts. That's the trade-off.

Most of the electricity price rises are due to the solar uptake (and the 44c feed-in bungle). The system costs $X per year to maintain. This is spread between all users through the cost per KWh. If a solar generating household pays no bill, they are not paying their share of the network maintenance, even though they still use the network at night and on cloudy days. This forces everyone else to pay extra. It's paradoxical, but the less electricity everyone uses, the more it costs per person to maintain the network.

[Legal bulls***: These opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinions of the company I work for. This comment has been approved by the NSA]
09:30am 02/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14099 posts
Yeh I've wondered that Furgle. I think we'll need to see access charges separated from usage (much like water) in coming years as more people take up solar. And feed in tariffs will surely go?

Sounds like the tech gains in solar are going to be in cheaper panels rather than more efficient ones which makes sense as mass production ramps up. If we get to the expected point in 5-10 years where a home can be kitted out with 6kW for only a few grand then that's a dramatic shift in power usage patterns, and the kwh cost for grid energy will need to go through the roof - or access charges will be necessary.
10:05am 02/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3179 posts
Wonder if it would have been better if it had been energex that installed and owned the solar panels on peoples homes. Not sure whether it would have been cost effective but if there was legislation that stated all new homes had to have a 5kW system installed by energex and then the savings of solar power get distributed across a neighborhood rather than the individual.

Of course I have no idea whether that's efficient or not but it's a far more interesting conversation than partisans spilling useless bile at each other.
10:34am 02/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20118 posts
who was the moron who thought up this 44c/hr payment back to solar producer. f*** me.
10:53am 02/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13888 posts
F*** cheap solar panels. I want cheap batteries.

The biggest hurdle I found when looking at going off the grid was the large capital cost of the battery bank, it makes it so not worth doing. When the 44c/kwh goes and is reduced to a reasonable price a battery bank setup will be a bit better off, however the cost of batteries still stops it. Cheap batteries more than cheap solar will be what causes a shift on mass to home-production of power.
11:00am 02/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6136 posts
Joe seems mad, or does he have b****y face?


Heh, I was thinking something else. The rest of them seem focused on something like someone across the table talking, whereas Joe's sitting there staring into space trying to figure out how the hell he managed to get himself into the deep end as Shadow Treasurer.
11:21am 02/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6137 posts
Wonder if it would have been better if it had been energex that installed and owned the solar panels on peoples homes.


That sounds like a maintenance access nightmare. Better for homes to be responsible for their own panels than for energex to have to co-ordinate with thousands of individual households in the event that something goes wrong.
11:25am 02/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14103 posts
F*** cheap solar panels. I want cheap batteries.

The biggest hurdle I found when looking at going off the grid was the large capital cost of the battery bank, it makes it so not worth doing.

Oh yeh I agree, which is why the feed in tariff system we've set up is loco. Everyone needs the grid for the gap because power storage is exxy, but a growing number of people aren't paying for it!

Question though, something niggles me at the back of my mind about going off the power grid. Is it actually legal in suburban municipalities? I vaguelly remember someone saying you're required to maintain a connection to mains power by council? Bulls***?
11:27am 02/07/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7375 posts
from ALP's youtube channel




you were saying?

12:12pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3755 posts

F*** cheap solar panels. I want cheap batteries.


Unless you're rural, it's pointless going for an off-grid setup. Bring on cheap panels so we can have widespread uptake and reduce the need for coal fired plants, since we cant afford thorium reactors.
12:48pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6276 posts
Doesn't solve the need for the network and associated costs. Wind power is currently the cheapest form of power production, over the life of the project. PV solar is actually pretty expensive compared to coal.
01:04pm 02/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3180 posts
That sounds like a maintenance access nightmare. Better for homes to be responsible for their own panels than for energex to have to co-ordinate with thousands of individual households in the event that something goes wrong.
I don't know about that to be honest, there isn't much that goes wrong with the panels themselves, they have like a 20-25 year lifespan so it's not something that would pop up often and the inverter can be installed on the boundary like your meters for unobtrusive access.

There is also the possibility that any maintenance could be put on the owners responsibility and it becomes simply another cost of owning a home. My folks have solar and they haven't paid anything after the installation fee, I'd be guessing that it'd only be things like needing the roof repaired/replaced or dealing with storm damage and the like which would incur a cost.

Still not saying it's viable, just suggesting it might have ended with a better result than what we have now.
01:06pm 02/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
292 posts
Like any other normal egomaniac and psychopath, the dropping of names to feel important is your number 1 priority.

http://web.stagram.com/p/490350077671380392_30038076 "kruddmp Having a chat with @barackobama"
02:34pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4253 posts
kev's actually pretty active on instagram
02:43pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9543 posts
Like any other normal egomaniac and psychopath, the dropping of names to feel important is your number 1 priority. http://web.stagram.com/p/490350077671380392_30038076 "kruddmp Having a chat with @barackobama"
It is clear from that post that this update was posted by Kevvy himself, and clearly not anyone in his PR department. Nope, not at all.
03:35pm 02/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
293 posts
It is clear from that post that this update was posted by Kevvy himself, and clearly not anyone in his PR department. Nope, not at all.


Obviously he didn't post it himself, but the strategy of vigorously using social media to promote a cult following of "kevvie" was developed by Kevin and his team. We saw it when he was just a backbencher when he would produce youtube videos of himself, again stroking his ego.

It's all about stroking his ego and building this celebrity around him. "HEY LOOK AT ME, IM TALKING TO IMPORTANT PEOPLE"
04:36pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1186 posts
They all do it to greater/lesser degrees of success. Be it a twitter or a blog or Facebook presence.

I doubt many people assume that it's actually them rather than their media advisors posting.
04:39pm 02/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3181 posts
He's the PM of Australia you waste of internet bandwidth, he is important people. How does "name dropping" or posing on social media boost the ego of the man in the most important position in the country.

If you want to call that ego stroking then what has Tony been doing for the last 3 years with his media stunts every other night? Obviously come election time politicians are going to promote themselves, how f*****g stupid can you possibly get?
04:42pm 02/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20125 posts
"Hey Barack, how about that NSA thing, cobba?"
05:42pm 02/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4292 posts
Yeah thats pretty f***ed up no doubt about it.
08:00pm 02/07/13 Permalink
kos
Germany
2771 posts
Like any other normal egomaniac and psychopath, the dropping of names to feel important is your number 1 priority.

Hahaha, the person who claims that Tony Abbott staring blankly while twitching is a normal way to behave (and says they do the same thing) then says that mentioning on Twitter the name of another world leader they're talking to means someone is a psychopath.

Trolls gonna troll.
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/thumb/f/f2/Trollface_More_HD.png/400px-Trollface_More_HD.png
08:00pm 02/07/13 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7379 posts
was that in reply to my examples, taipan?
04:30am 03/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6412 posts
Toothbrushes


The kids filed into class Monday morning. They were all very excited.

Their weekend assignment was to sell something, then give a talk on salesmanship.

Little Sally led off. "I sold Girl Scout cookies and I made $30.00", she said proudly. "My sales approach was to appeal to the customer's civil spirit and I credit that approach for my obvious success".

"Very good", said the teacher.

Little Debbie was next. "I sold magazines", she said. "I made $45.00 and I explained to everyone that magazines would keep them up on current events".

"Very good, Debbie", said the teacher.

Eventually, it was Little Johnny's turn. The teacher held her breath. Little Johnny walked to the front of the classroom and dumped a box full of cash on the teacher's desk. "$2,467.00", he said.

"$2,467.00!" cried the teacher, "What in the world were you selling?"

“Toothbrushes", said Little Johnny.

"Toothbrushes", echoed the teacher. "How could you possibly sell enough toothbrushes to make that much money?"

"I found the busiest corner in town", said Little Johnny. "I set up a Dip & Chip stand and I gave everybody who walked by a free sample. They all said the same thing, Hey, this tastes like dog poop! Then I would say, It is dog poop, you wanna buy a toothbrush? I used the Kevin Rudd method of giving you some crap, dressing it up so it looks good, telling you it's free and then making you pay to get the bad taste out of your mouth."

Little Johnny got five stars for his assignment. Bless his heart.

09:05pm 03/07/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6574 posts
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1785094/Malcolm-Fraser-to-campaign-with-Greens:-report

Former Liberal prime minister Malcolm Fraser will campaign with the Greens to prevent Tony Abbott gaining control of the Senate, should he win the upcoming federal election.

...Mr Fraser is very critical of both major parties' policies on asylum seekers, as is Senator Hanson-Young, the Greens spokeswoman on the issue.

09:36pm 03/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20136 posts
It's where he should have been all along.
09:40pm 03/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10053 posts
Both major parties have bobble heads as leaders ... I blame Rupert Murdoch.
10:24pm 03/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10409 posts
Rudd was masterful on 7:30 tonight.
He is a one man team, he could be Minister for Everything and people would still vote for him.

10:52pm 03/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
296 posts
Malcolm Fraser, a conservative right wing prime minister is going to campaign for a far-left wing extremist socialist party.

My god...... surely he must have dementia or some other kind of mental health issue because that is just retarded.
11:37pm 03/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20137 posts
he was always a wet Liberal
11:40pm 03/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6150 posts
He seems to want to talk a lot about campaigning for Sarah Hanson-Young though.
An elaborate pick up scheme from a wiley former PM? Sly dog.
Stay on the lookout for news reports of a second trousers incident.
12:01am 04/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10410 posts
Rudd 2007
Turn back the Boats !

12:49pm 04/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1011 posts
Malcolm Fraser, a conservative right wing prime minister is going to campaign for a far-left wing extremist socialist party.My god...... surely he must have dementia or some other kind of mental health issue because that is just retarded.


Maybe he just thinks people should be treated like humans?
01:52pm 04/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1187 posts
Maybe he just thinks people should be treated like humans?


That is stupid talk, all your political views must be seen through the prism of left or right.
02:05pm 04/07/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3751 posts
HurricaneJim, I'm curious, are you making these yourself?
02:56pm 04/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20138 posts
He does, in his mud bunker.
03:01pm 04/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10411 posts
anyone see Wednesday Night Fever on ABC1 last night ?
had some big laughs at Rudd.

They a did a Tarantino films Palmer election Ad that was hilarious.
05:16pm 04/07/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1469 posts
HurricaneJim, I'm curious, are you making these yourself?



Google ExposingTonyAbbottTheLnpMemesStuff
05:21pm 04/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10413 posts
11:07am 06/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1664 posts
The Napoleon analogy is pretty apt, but I hope Rudd lasts longer than 100 days.
12:00pm 06/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20144 posts
Don't you think the Australian public have learned their lesson from the Green Labor coalition?
12:07pm 08/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18368 posts
I f*****g hope so
12:08pm 08/07/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11405 posts
I don't remember Rudd being a bad PM, I was quite happy with him, and I'm a sad little c***. Apart from the Environmental stuff with that bald headed f*****, which was quite aggressive policy - but we knew about it before the election - AND it seems more people are coming around on that.
He had his own TV show and then he bought everyone in Australia a Plasma, what a champ

I basically lost a block of land in Shoalhaven because Peter Garrett decided paperbark is very important. Still paying rates, not allowed to build.
12:11pm 08/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1014 posts
Don't you think the Australian public have learned their lesson from the Green Labor coalition?
I f*****g hope so


What was particularly bad about it? The carbon tax? Your beloved Tony supports it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcH0Wrmy74

The pathetic mining tax in it's current form was done by Julia, Swanny and their buddies in the mining industry.
03:37pm 08/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10419 posts
Vote Greens for unaffordable electricity bills.

Milne wants an Election now.
Before Rudd cripples the Carbon Tax.
04:03pm 08/07/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6577 posts
Love it when the liberals do something wrong and their supporters on here shut up so quickly.

I'm refering to abbott and his not paying money back and newman government giving themselves a pay increase after sacking 14,000 people.
05:18am 10/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35992 posts
poll results are in and its 50/50 with rudd back.

do i dare to dream?
07:52am 10/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23020 posts
It would be pretty amazing if sanity did prevail after some of the poll results seen earlier in the year.
07:53am 10/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13906 posts
The good, useful version of the NBN may actually still happen! I may not have to cry that I miss out by 1 road!
08:28am 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20153 posts
I thought the Qld MP payrise issue is disgraceful. Mind you Gillard govt gave the exact same pay rise to Federal MPs.

re the TA travel expenses. Don't you think the ALP special minister of State could get one on Abbott he would have? Gary Gray said there was no case to answer.
08:57am 10/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1016 posts
The good, useful version of the NBN may actually still happen! I may not have to cry that I miss out by 1 road!


If the LNP get in I'd start making friends with neighbours and run some cat6 ;)
09:36am 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14137 posts
I thought the Qld MP payrise issue is disgraceful. Mind you Gillard govt gave the exact same pay rise to Federal MPs.

Mind you the Federal Government wasn't axing departments and staff broadscale while giving themselves a payrise.

I'm sure in the decade or so Howard was in power MPs got the odd payrise. Its not the payrise so much as the background rhetoric about the Government being broke because evil Labor so sorry we have to fire everyone, now, ahem, show me the moneys?!
10:40am 10/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3191 posts
Yeah the fact that they couldn't find $30M to pay to repair the GC beaches that bring in far more than that annually in tourism revenue yet still manage to put in their pay rise is pretty bad.

I thought wasting money on a weekend detention initiative while simultaneously claiming there wasn't money in the budget to keep schools open was bad.
11:58am 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20154 posts
I urge that if you are opposed to these outrageous MP payrises please write to Premier Newman.

http://www.thepremier.qld.gov.au/tools/contact.aspx
12:28pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2385 posts
sent:- I also am not happy about the 23% increase in power prices. Considering this was an election promise as well as the possibility of the carbon tax being repealed.
02:11pm 10/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
301 posts
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151779013207269&set=a.141625972268.140299.71784212268&type=1&theater

Still stroking the ego. Notice how the facebook page is now called "Kevin Rudd and Labor"

They are trying to win the election solely on the celebrity of rudd and Labor is just some added on extra. They know Labor is a tarnished brand.

He's been flooding these selfies and other ego photos for weeks now.
02:18pm 10/07/13 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
998 posts
^ why don't you just stop following him on facebook so you don't have to see it?
02:32pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6582 posts
glynd it's his only source of material to attacked labor on as the liberals have no policies they're all about hating and not about fixing.
03:05pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36000 posts
poor peter is going to be subjected to a lot more awesome kruddler over the next 3.5 years
03:13pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14142 posts
I urge that if you are opposed to these outrageous MP payrises please write to Premier Newman.http://www.thepremier.qld.gov.au/tools/contact.aspx

Done, thanks for the link.
In an environment where your Government is making large cuts to the public sector and many are losing their jobs in the name of the bottom line, it is absolutely heinous for your MPs to vote in a pay rise.

I voted for the LNP but will not do do so again if you do not fix this appalling hypocrisy and demonstrate some common decency.
03:18pm 10/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
928 posts
why don't you just stop following him on facebook so you don't have to see it?


Because he secretly loves Rudd just like everyone else. Plus one time at his school Rudd came and showed him the "labor"
03:32pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4943 posts

Has this been posted?
04:25pm 10/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10426 posts
You aren't voting for Labor anymore
Its the Kevin Rudd Party.
Where Kevin makes the rules that declare him Emperor for Life.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/stop-power-cut-offs-for-poor-sa-agency/story-e6frfku9-1226676872751

"Families can't survive without gas and electricity, but currently there's no safety net in place if they aren't able to pay their bills on time," Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young said on Wednesday


Heres a safety net for families.
Don't vote Greens.
04:54pm 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20157 posts
There is a safety net for keeping your electricity on: it's called pay your f*****g bill.
04:59pm 10/07/13 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
4006 posts
My mate with the c***roach ridden, disgusting hell hole.of a housing commission house (I think he is due for his first annual inspection soon, wonder how that goes) owes a couple of grand on his bill, he just has to pay the agreed amount ($35) a week and they won't disconnect him. That was two bills worth backed up before he started the plan, I think that's a huge margin.
05:20pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2386 posts
Sarah Hanson-Young is hawt but damn she is as dumb as a box of hammers.
They want 100% green electricity but they want it to be affordable and a safety net for those that casn't afford it?
05:55pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13914 posts
haha.

That video reminded instantly of one of these characters, and we all know how creepy Bevis is...
http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/beavis_butt-head_image_washington_monument_01.jpg
06:43pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14143 posts
Sarah Hanson-Young is hawt but damn she is as dumb as a box of hammers.
They want 100% green electricity but they want it to be affordable and a safety net for those that casn't afford it?

This is typical of ill-conceived and contradictory Greens policies tbh.
06:44pm 10/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
303 posts
^ why don't you just stop following him on facebook so you don't have to see it?


I'm not following him. I can't escape his ego advertising. He's on the TV, hes on facebook ads, he shows up in my newsfeed everytime someone likes one of his ridiculous "OHHHHHH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, IM JUST SO GOOD MEEEEEEEEEEE" pictures.

It's just all about Kevin. "Vote me because i'm KEVIN don't worry about my policies and my f*** up's IM KEVINNNNNN" *whispers "oh and im also in labor"

glynd it's his only source of material to attacked labor on as the liberals have no policies they're all about hating and not about fixing.


Everyone is well aware of how crap Labor is. Labor isn't campaigning on the Labor brand, they are campaigning on "HIIII IM KEVINNNNN" because most voters are that stupid that they don't remember how crap Kevin was and they are willing to forget how crap Labor is just because it has a new leader.

Sarah Hanson-Young is hawt but damn she is as dumb as a box of hammers.
They want 100% green electricity but they want it to be affordable and a safety net for those that casn't afford it?


She is completely nuts too, just have a look at her. Every press conference she has her head on the side, hair behind just 1 of her ears hysterically bobbing her head and talking with a panicked toned.

Your standard greeny.

Because he secretly loves Rudd just like everyone else. Plus one time at his school Rudd came and showed him the "labor"


Prime Minister John Howard came to visit my school in 2007, Kevvy was too "busy" to come. He was probably too busy furiously masturbating to himself in the mirror.
06:49pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14144 posts
I'm not following him. I can't escape his ego advertising. He's on the TV, hes on facebook ads, he shows up in my newsfeed everytime someone likes one of his ridiculous "OHHHHHH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, IM JUST SO GOOD MEEEEEEEEEEE" pictures.

Everyone is well aware of how crap Labor is. Labor isn't campaigning on the Labor brand, they are campaigning on "HIIII IM KEVINNNNN" because most voters are that stupid that they don't remember how crap Kevin was and they are willing to forget how crap Labor is just because it has a new leader.

I wouldn't be happy with him either if I was a partisan prat and he cost my party a free election.
06:54pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14145 posts
Just watched the most recent QANDA.

F*** the Coalition did themselves a disservice in ditching Turnball.
07:54pm 10/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6415 posts
^ a vote for Tony is a vote for Malcolm
08:00pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14146 posts
^ a vote for Tony is a vote for Malcolm

This is not true.
08:01pm 10/07/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5912 posts
Honest question: Would things really be different if Turnball was in power? Does the leader of the party have much say?
08:17pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2387 posts
I get seriously hard for malcum.
08:32pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10070 posts
F*** the Coalition did themselves a disservice in ditching Turnball.

It was 1 vote.
And unlike Kevin he has done his job for his party since then.
08:36pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14147 posts
It was 1 vote.
And unlike Kevin he has done his job for his party since then.

All true, and yet not contradictory to what I said at all.
08:37pm 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20158 posts
That is because the libs are a team. The ALP eats their own.
08:54pm 10/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
304 posts
Honest question: Would things really be different if Turnball was in power? Does the leader of the party have much say?


No it wouldn't. This is what people don't get. Thanks to the media, all voters have an obsession with the leaders so that's why every says "oh abbot this" or "gillard that" instead of "liberals this" "Labor that" It's why Kevvy is bringing Labor ahead in the polls.

It's the boganization of politics, where people vote solely on the personality of the leader instead of policy of the party and the party team. Policy is made by the party.

If Malcolm was the leader, the boats still would be stopped and the wasteful spending and debt would be taken care of. These aren't "abbots policies" as people like to scream and parrot.
09:11pm 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20159 posts
FOOTAGE of Kevin Rudd patting the head of a disabled woman has left a disability advocate ``shaking with rage''.

Comedian Stella Young, who is also a disability campaigner, said the PM's behaviour showed Australians had a long way to go to change patronising and disrespectful attitudes.

The clip, part of a story on the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) on ABC's 7.30 Report on Tuesday night, showed Mr Rudd posing for a photo with a woman in a wheelchair before patting or ruffling her hair.
09:25pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13916 posts
See the difference is people have to go digging to find lol factors at Rudd, whilst Tony kindly just seemingly offers it up front. Like that interview where he said nothing, bahah who does that?
09:36pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10071 posts
That is because the libs are a team. The ALP eats their own.

Infi, you type and all I see is one eyed political dribble.
You would do the LNP a service by not trying to support them.
09:42pm 10/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20160 posts
Where did the libs chew up and spit their leaders out in sheer desperation? Where was my statement inaccurate Obes?
09:46pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14149 posts
Where did the libs chew up and spit their leaders out in sheer desperation? Where was my statement inaccurate Obes?

The national Liberal party had a new leader every year 2007-2009. For years there was speculation and endorsement of Costello to challenge Howard for the top job, and many people criticised him for NOT challenging.

Similarly the LNP jumped around a lot with the Borg etc. while in Opposition.

The only (only!) reason that the current stability exists is that you've been polling well and are were expected to romp into power in September. If you lose this election you will be all over the place like a mad woman's s*** like any other party.
10:18pm 10/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10428 posts
Howard stayed too long and it meant there was no successor to take over.
Costello spat the dummy and left, there was a power vacuum.
It was quite normal for the Party to wander around a bit in the wilderness.

Labor defeated Australias 2nd longest PM and then stabbed its own PM in the back
then went to an election and crawled over the line to win again before stabbing YET ANOTHER PM in the back to where we are now. With nearly all their front bench quitting.
in any other Political Party that would have been a disaster but Kevin Rudds ego is so huge and the Media love him so much that he has a chance of winning an Election basically by himself.

I still think Abbott will win because the ALP has no Election winning Policies, they all suck or cost too much to fulfil.
$20 billion surplus to 60 billion defecit
YOU CANT EXPLAIN THAT
YOU CANT VOTE FOR THAT
11:02pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4326 posts
That is because the libs are a team. The ALP eats their own.


You dont recall Downer, Hewson and Howard playing musical f*****g chairs? Seriously infi why do you absolutely have to be such a one eyed d*******. Quit saying this stupid s*** because you arent helping yourself or endearing anyone to the libs.
11:32pm 10/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14150 posts
wibbly-wobbly back in time sequence

Go back a little further and have a read about the s***fight in the 70s between Gorton, McMahon and Fraser. Gorton, a sitting Liberal PM, faced poor polls vs. a resurgent Labor Party. He was challenged and sacked by the party, replaced by McMahon following a leadership challenge.

In a surprise move, Gorton contested and won the position of Deputy Leader, forcing McMahon to make him Defence Minister. This farcical situation ended within five months when McMahon sacked him for disloyalty.

Later after the Whitlam dismissal when Fraser won Government, ex-Liberal PM Gorton hated him so much he resigned from the Party and sat in Federal Parliament as an Independent. Similarly later, while Howard was in Government, Fraser was scathingly critical of the Liberal Government.

Both modern periods of Opposition have been a bloodbath. The governing Liberal Party of Victoria is a complete clusterf***.

So much for unity?

What sets Howard's term in Government and ABbott's period as Opposition leader apart is the polls. Howard is and was popular, Abbott is personally unpopular but the 2PP has been solid enough to keep his job, if the libs had 12 months instead of 6 they would f*** him off as readily as they ever have.

Any other analysis is 100% partisan bulls***.
12:15am 11/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7837 posts
Honest question: Would things really be different if Turnball was in power? Does the leader of the party have much say?

It would represent whether the party was hostage to nutty conspiracy theorists like infi, door, and faceman.

In Turnbull's own words:
Second, as we are being blunt, the fact is that Tony and the people who put him in his job do not want to do anything about climate change. They do not believe in human caused global warming. As Tony observed on one occasion "climate change is crap" or if you consider his mentor, Senator Minchin, the world is not warming, its cooling and the climate change issue is part of a vast left wing conspiracy to deindustrialise the world.
12:27am 11/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
305 posts
FOOTAGE of Kevin Rudd patting the head of a disabled woman has left a disability advocate ``shaking with rage''. Comedian Stella Young, who is also a disability campaigner, said the PM's behaviour showed Australians had a long way to go to change patronising and disrespectful attitudes.The clip, part of a story on the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) on ABC's 7.30 Report on Tuesday night, showed Mr Rudd posing for a photo with a woman in a wheelchair before patting or ruffling her hair.



It's all about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!KEVINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he has no problem treating disabled people as show ponies and props to fuel the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!KEVINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ego meter.
12:32am 11/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20161 posts
You dont recall Downer, Hewson and Howard playing musical f*****g chairs?


You honestly think that compares? The ALP has dethroned not one but two PRIME MINISTERS. Oppositions regularly chop and change leaders. Since 2004 it's been Latham, Beazley, Crean, Beazley, Rudd, Gillard, Rudd.

It amuses me that punters can actually believe
a) Rudd wants the Top Job back to help the ALP. Kevin is in it for Kevin. This is simply Kevin's ultimate fantasy of getting the caucus to admit they f***ed up.
b) that if Kevin was to win he will be there 6 months after he is elected. The guy is a seatwarmer despised by most of the ALP.

Kevin wasn't removed because he was past his used by date like Costello was urged to do. Rudd was removed because his colleagues realised after 2 years of him at the helm, that Rudd is a c***.
12:37am 11/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7838 posts
You honestly think that compares? The ALP has dethroned not one but two PRIME MINISTERS. Oppositions regularly chop and change leaders.

Your criticism wasn't of changing sitting prime ministers, it was of infighting in the team and changing leaders. Nice moving of the goalposts there when reality gets in the way of your rhetoric.

Can you admit that "The libs are a team. The ALP eats their own" was flat out untrue?
12:41am 11/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20162 posts
Can you admit that "The libs are a team. The ALP eats their own" was flat out untrue?


It's 100% true. The Coalition have stayed focused on policy and being ready for government. The ALP as per usual have their eyes on the Newspolls and the opinions of their faceless bosses, throwing out leaders without an afterthought.

The solution to poor media or polling in the ALP is get rid of the leader. This is the key element of their toxic culture. Look at the ALP over the last 15 years. Previous periods of government can't compare to how short-sighted and poll driven the ALP have become. if you can't see that then... well good luck to you.

edit: name a situation where numerous senior cabinet ministers in the Coalition have outright bagged the leader in the media. name a situation where numerous senior cabinet ministers have resigned after a change in leader in the Coalition. These guys hate kevin's guts. How is this a functional government? They are just trying to save their necks from annihilation, they don't care about governing for the country.
12:51am 11/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14151 posts
You're a f*****g cyclops I swear.
01:04am 11/07/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
2967 posts
he does have a good point though, one eyed as it may be
01:07am 11/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4327 posts
Hahaha f*****g infi, and what policy is that they are so unified behind and focused on? You keep gking on about policy but when push comes to shove and you get called out to show some policy the guys here point out the total lack of anything meaningfull in that policy.

Youre the kind of guy that makes limp wristed swing voters look like intelligent thoughtfull people. Better to have your eyes and ears open with a small amount of intelligence than to be completely blinded by a football fan mentality. F*** me the libs are worse than Manly fans i swear
01:18am 11/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14152 posts
If you consider ignoring history to be a good point?

Coalition Prime Ministers, World War II and beyond:

- Menzies I: His first term was marred by disloyalty and crisis within the ironically named United Australia Party. Forced to resign as PM on 27th August 1941. Just, you know, while we are having a world war. End of the UAP, reforms as Liberal Party later.

- Menzies II : Epic PM, first Liberal Party PM, the longest serving PM and only one in history to retire on his own terms. Very popular while in office.

- Holt: Died or ran away. Alan Reid asserts that Holt was being increasingly criticised within the party in the months before his death, that he was perceived as being "vague, imprecise and evasive" and "nice to the point that his essential decency was viewed as weakness". In December, days before Holt disappeared, the Chief Government Whip Dudley Erwin decided to meet with Holt and confront him about growing unrest in the party.

- McEwan: Country Party (ie Nationals) caretaker after the Harold Holt, appointed by the GG. Refused to serve under McMahon because he didn't like him. Shenanigans.

- Gorton: Senator (!). Compromise PM selected because of the above leadership shenanigans. Popular for a while. Very bad with the media though! Performed poorly against Whitlam, big swing but won the election.

- McMahon: Following bad polls, challenged Gorton for leadership and won, deposing the elected Prime Minister. Gorton won deputy job but McMahon sacked him from the ministry later for disloyalty. He was defeated at the next election and never won the PM job in his own right.

- Fraser: While in opposition blocked supply to the 2nd Whitlam Government and forced the dismissal. Won next election. Lost to Bob Hawke. Was unsuccessfully challenged while PM by Andrew Peac***. Previous Liberal PM Gorton hated him, and resigned from the party, becoming an independent.

- Howard: Epic PM, second longest serving. Very popular while in office. Leadership tensions in final term but no challenge was laid and led the party to crushing defeat, becoming the only PM to lose his seat in an election.


So, about that stability and unity thing. I contend that this is poll-driven, nothing more than simple desire to stay in office and Government. Menzies was popular and retired before this changed. Howard was popular but chose to go to the 2007 election, and nobody was strong enough to challenge despite waning polls and he lost spectacularly. The other PMs with lesser popularity were embroiled in leadership shenanigans.

If the Liberal Party wants to make it their thing that you can't sack a Prime Minister then they should change their party's constitution because they can and they have. If the polls run strongly against a Liberal PM and there is a well-liked challenger ready I firmly believe they will again.
01:44am 11/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7839 posts
It's 100% true.

So what about the infighting and leadership spills between Brendan Nelson, then Turnbull, then Abbott? Just in the last few years?

Oh wait, you don't care about "facts", because rhetorical fantasy lands are the only places that your arguments make sense in.

The Coalition have stayed focused on policy and being ready for government. The ALP as per usual have their eyes on the Newspolls and the opinions of their faceless bosses, throwing out leaders without an afterthought.

I think that you have the parties the wrong way around there. We're all still waiting on the Coalition's policies, instead we get Abbott's crowd playing distractions.

edit: name a situation where numerous senior cabinet ministers in the Coalition have outright bagged the leader in the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia_leadership_spill,_2009#Abbott_and_Hockey_challenges
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/abbotts-climate-change-policy-is-bulls***-20091207-kdmb.html
02:15am 11/07/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2172 posts
Let's not forget that Abott is leader of the party by one single caucus vote.

Which means that nearly half the caucus do not want him to be PM.
02:21am 11/07/13 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1404 posts
Newmann is doing a pretty good job to keep libs out of federal.
As of yesterday ALL unions are banned at all government workplaces unless specially invited. Staff are also no longer allowed to access or seek the unions during working hours..
Statewide across Queensland.

Way to go backwards.
While state libs are still free reigning with labor in parliament I can only imagine the consequences of a fully backed federal government.
05:51am 11/07/13 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6281 posts
I heard someone else say that a week or so ago for Unions Mephz, but they couuldn't provide any link/letter saying it. Can you?
They also said that Unions are no longer allowed to use Government resources to print their own propaganda. Which, IMO, they shouldn't have been allowed to do in the first place!
07:24am 11/07/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4050 posts
I heard someone else say that a week or so ago for Unions Mephz, but they couuldn't provide any link/letter saying it. Can you? They also said that Unions are no longer allowed to use Government resources to print their own propaganda. Which, IMO, they shouldn't have been allowed to do in the first place!


why not, it isn't really much different than say the LNP letting businesses and people conducting meetings and using government resources to do their businesses

also, dont the unions use labours resources? (when in power or not) and the unions fund labour so it is more a quid pro quo
07:31am 11/07/13 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20954 posts
It's all about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!KEVINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he has no problem treating disabled people as show ponies and props to fuel the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!KEVINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ego meter.


Does anyone else imagine him frothing at the mouth with wild crazy eyes while typing this?

Its stupid anyway, saw this footage this morning, he just ruffles her hair, like you would any kid, and the girl looks thrilled about it, probably made her day.
08:50am 11/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1188 posts
Let's not forget that Abott is leader of the party by one single caucus vote.

Which means that nearly half the caucus do not want him to be PM.


Not that I like the man but this is not true. He opened up party leadership voting after the election and won by far more than 1 vote.
08:53am 11/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20163 posts
Not that I like the man but this is not true. He opened up party leadership voting after the election and won by far more than 1 vote.


omg they didn't knife him!
08:54am 11/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13917 posts
omg they didn't knife him!


Maybe they should have...
09:33am 11/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
931 posts
Does anyone else imagine him frothing at the mouth with wild crazy eyes while typing this?

Its stupid anyway, saw this footage this morning, he just ruffles her hair, like you would any kid, and the girl looks thrilled about it, probably made her day.


Yep. Maybe masturbating as well. This level of attention paid to a self confessed media whore goes beyond exasperation with the current political environment.

@possumobesity.

Dude take it easy, we all know kevin loves the limelight, just turn the tv off if its bugging you that much.
09:45am 11/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36007 posts
omg they didn't knife him!


couple more bad polls and lets see what happens eh?
10:24am 11/07/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2174 posts
Not that I like the man but this is not true. He opened up party leadership voting after the election and won by far more than 1 vote.

I stand corrected, if only because I have completely forgotten the last election even happened. Considering the current situation (Rudd back, leading polls), I see that as a forgivable oversight.

Meanwhile, this thread needs more "they're both s***" people. Sick of Ruddbunnies and Abbottbackers. :D
10:51am 11/07/13 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1405 posts
Scooter, its legislation now. Should be able to find it.
11:01am 11/07/13 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3752 posts
I think it will be hilarious if Kevin Rudd gets in.

after all these changes to the way Labor elect their leader, the Labor party will be stuck with him and Australians will again get the leader they deserve.
11:20am 11/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23024 posts
Does anyone else imagine him frothing at the mouth with wild crazy eyes while typing this?
I'm also hearing a distinct nasally whine in my head whenever I read his posts.
11:20am 11/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10430 posts
The Messiah attempts to heal the sick

12:50pm 11/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
306 posts
Does anyone else imagine him frothing at the mouth with wild crazy eyes while typing this?Its stupid anyway, saw this footage this morning, he just ruffles her hair, like you would any kid, and the girl looks thrilled about it, probably made her day.


She's not a kid though, she's an adult...... herp derppppppppppp

@possumobesity.Dude take it easy, we all know kevin loves the limelight, just turn the tv off if its bugging you that much.


I guess i am a bit over the top. I guess the thing that bugs me and sets me off the most is the fact that he is going to win the election just because of his celebrity and that aussie voters are so stupid that they will re elect Labor just for Kevin.
01:36pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1189 posts
I guess i am a bit over the top. I guess the thing that bugs me and sets me off the most is the fact that he is going to win the election just because of his celebrity and that aussie voters are so stupid that they will re elect Labor just for Kevin.


I think you are accusing voters of being stupid because you are afraid they aren't going to vote the way you want them to vote like somehow you are a voice of reason.

I don't understand the blind fanaticism of some people to one party or another. Hell, after seeing the hung parliament and how well the indies did for their electorates, I'd be more encouraged than ever to find who an independent is in my electorate and see if their values/ideas correlated with my own and vote that way and hope the current polls reflect the election result of another hung parliament.

/end wishful thinking
01:47pm 11/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1670 posts
Jesus christ, he just touched her head. To say that is a gesture of oppression to disabled people sounds a little paranoid. The article by Stella Young is just sad.

I guess i am a bit over the top. I guess the thing that bugs me and sets me off the most is the fact that he is going to win the election just because of his celebrity and that aussie voters are so stupid that they will re elect Labor just for Kevin.


Most LNP supporters seem misguided on this point, they think we're voting for Kevin, when we're actually voting against Tony. Get rid of that chump already, he's killing your party's chances.
01:48pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2388 posts
The thing that boggles my mind is everyone was ready to get rid of Gillard and Tony was going to stroll in with an overwhelming majority. Now with Kevin in the mix without any change to policy whatsoever all of a sudden everyone is ready to vote labor.

His only policy change so far is to ensure he doesn't get knifed again.
No policy to remove the carbon tax and move to an ETS, no policy to ammend the MRR Tax, no changes to the assylum seeker policy.
03:01pm 11/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20164 posts
But he posted a photo on Instagram...
03:37pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13923 posts
Perhaps the polls for Gillard were so bad simply because the Australian voters held a big grudge against her for the way she got into the PM position..
03:41pm 11/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1017 posts
Perhaps the polls for Gillard were so bad simply because the Australian voters held a big grudge against her for the way she got into the PM position..


I think this is a massive part of it.
03:54pm 11/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
307 posts
I think you are accusing voters of being stupid because you are afraid they aren't going to vote the way you want them to vote like somehow you are a voice of reason.


No. I'v explained this once before. Aussie voters are politically stupid and it's partially the medias fault. The media have created this big obsession with the leaders of parties so discussions are always "abbot this" "gillard that" "rudd this" "abbots policies" instead of "Liberals this" "Labor that" "Liberals policies.

So people basically vote based on the leader now instead of the party and the team in that party and people don't actually know it's the party that comes up with the policies not the leader. It's why Labor keeps ousting its leaders because they know stupid aussie voters only look at the Leader these days.

It always makes me cringe when i see someone write "i'm not voting for abbot because abbots an idiot" You are voting for a party and the team behind it. Voters are that stupid that they will re-elect Labor and the crap Labor team despite all the problems and mistakes they have caused all because it has a leader they like.

Labor understand that Aussie voters are politically stupid, it's why they are now campaigning based soley on Kevin Rudd, it's why their facebook page is now called "Kevin Rudd AND Labor" They know if they don't campaign on Labor they can win on "Kevin Rudd" They may aswell rename the party "Kevin Rudd"

Labor will win this next election based solely on the celebrity and we will have another 4 years of bad Labor government, mismanagement and f*** ups.

Most LNP supporters seem misguided on this point, they think we're voting for Kevin, when we're actually voting against Tony. Get rid of that chump already, he's killing your party's chances.


PERFECT example of what im talking about above. You are voting for a party just because you don't like 1 person and like another despite it being the PARTY you should be voting for.

Dislike Abbot as much as you want, but the party and the team behind it and their policies are fantastic. The policy is set by the party. Your post is a perfect example of the boganization of politics that has occurred.

I don't understand the blind fanaticism of some people to one party or another. Hell, after seeing the hung parliament and how well the indies did for their electorates, I'd be more encouraged than ever to find who an independent is in my electorate and see if their values/ideas correlated with my own and vote that way and hope the current polls reflect the election result of another hung parliament.

/end wishful thinking


What about the blind fanaticism for the Labor party on here despite how s*** they have done in government, just because people don't like "Abbot"

The independents have done a crap job for their electorates, they went completely against the wishes of the people in their electorates by backing the gillard government. Everyone knew gillard was lying about the carbon tax and they were warned, yet they still went ahead in backing her.
03:55pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6169 posts
But he posted a photo on Instagram...

Was it the one where he cut himself shaving yesterday?
Take note faceless men: If it bleeds you can kill it!
03:57pm 11/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10432 posts
I saw most of him at the press club today and he announced nothing new.
every question about Policy he dodged or smirked or Mr Abbott'd it.

Whats he going to debate Abbott about ?
At least Abbott has a leaflet.

As for stopping the boats, SBY (as Rudd calls the Indonesian leader - hip talk) is going to have a talkfest with all the ministers in the area, which is likely to amount to nothing.
That was all he had to say.

oh and hes going to get tough on Power Bills !
04:05pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1406 posts
Hope anyone who votes Liberal doesn't like or need any healthcare/police/fire assistance in the nearby future.
It's all disappearing to the s***house if liberal get into Federal parliament. Newman and QLD is merely a taste of what will happen.
There's more 'cuts' coming and with legislation to remove unions. The non-government sectors workplace rights are next chumps. But don't say we didn't warn you
04:15pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1190 posts

The independents have done a crap job for their electorates, they went completely against the wishes of the people in their electorates by backing the gillard government. Everyone knew gillard was lying about the carbon tax and they were warned, yet they still went ahead in backing her.


Cool, now I get to call you out for being an idiot. They didn't do a crap job for their electorates at all. You should head to the Tamworth area and see the amount of infrastructure that has been built and jobs created including those based around carbon reduction (which the greens and the Indies forced to happen, hence the 'Gillard lie', not your weird way of looking at it) and the NBN. It is exactly why Joyce was still not a shoe in to win the seat with Windsor running.

The people there could have easily have voted LNP if they wanted to but had signalled dissatisfaction with both major parties. They voted for someone to negotiate their wants and needs with whomever the government at the time was. Just because the LNP was 2nd (by a long way) in 2PP doesn't automatically tell the Indie who the people want to be granted guarantee of supply for the budget. That was up to the independent and Gillard/Abbott to negotiate. You got a beef with which way that all went down, then take it up with the negotiations from both sides and our political system.

Also for the record I don't buy into your rhetoric about labor = bad, libs = good.

Labor have made some stupid mistakes including the MRRT, promising a surplus, taking on the states through the media for Gonski etc. But there has been some decent strides made with education reform and disability reform and the NBN. Making it seem like the sky is falling down so vote the other way detracts from decent policy debate imo.

I saw most of him at the press club today and he announced nothing new.
every question about Policy he dodged or smirked or Mr Abbott'd it.


Last time I checked, he called for a debate with Abbott and booked the press club for it as a way of wedging him into either get a debate or Abbott shirking it and Rudd trying to force the Abbott = Dr No rhetoric down everyone's throat. Make of it what you will, but it was never meant to be a policy launch, don't know why you expected it to be?
04:18pm 11/07/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3194 posts
She's not a kid though, she's an adult...... herp derppppppppppp
This is what is wrong with you.
04:19pm 11/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23027 posts
Dislike Abbot as much as you want, but the party and the team behind it and their policies are fantastic.
Stop the boats! lol

When people accuse you of frothing you just start frothing harder. It's good entertainment. So what did Labor do to you anyway? Did you expect them to save you from your degenerate little life and when they didn't you decided to focus all your blame and anger at them instead of yourself? You should probably get that checked out buddy.
04:21pm 11/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10433 posts
Azaria if Windsor and Oakshott did so much for their electorates why are they afraid to run again ?
Both those seats will become National not Labor.
Certainly not risking another Independent who runs as a conservative only to join the ALP after the Election. Those two clowns have hurt the Independent label.

Either you vote Labor or Coalition otherwise you get what we just got.
and god help this Country if The Greens get a sniff of power again.
04:58pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
119 posts
What we just got was one of the most productive federal governments in quite a while.
05:27pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1191 posts
Azaria if Windsor and Oakshott did so much for their electorates why are they afraid to run again ?
Both those seats will become National not Labor.


Well I will give you that Oakshott (who I think is fairly well measured) would lose his seat but Windsor most likely wouldn't have if the polling before he announced retiring showed. Wilkie will probably keep his seat again, as will Katter. Windsor is leaving due to Ill health, Oakshott is leaving for his kids apparently but I would say that he is the only one out of the entire crossbench who started the term there that would no longer be there. Last time I checked they ran in the last election as independents, not as a National Party stooges who had to give them supply 'just because'.

And what did we just get that is so so so bad? If anything we just maintained the status quo whilst moving towards a few reforms apart from a carbon tax anc getting changes to legislation through that for the most part has been positive. The 'boat issue' was caused from a mandate from a previous election, so doesn't count. So you hate Labor and think people should only vote 1 of the two main parties? Awesome democracy in action right there.
05:33pm 11/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
308 posts
Hope anyone who votes Liberal doesn't like or need any healthcare/police/fire assistance in the nearby future.It's all disappearing to the s***house if liberal get into Federal parliament.


Wow, could you have said anything more ridiculous than that. Suggesting healthcare/police/fire assistance would disappear under a Liberal government is the most retarded thing i have ever read on this forum.

Congratulations.

Also for the record I don't buy into your rhetoric about labor = bad, libs = good.
Labor have made some stupid mistakes including the MRRT, promising a surplus, taking on the states through the media for Gonski etc. But there has been some decent strides made with education reform and disability reform and the NBN. Making it seem like the sky is falling down so vote the other way detracts from decent policy debate imo.


Don't buy into it, but look at Labors track record not only federally but in state.

Queensland Labor 10 years in government - Massive debt, Deficit, wasteful spending, constant mistakes
NSW Labor 10 years in government - Massive debt, Deficit, wasteful spending, constant mistakes, corruption
Victoria Labor 10 years in government - Massive debt, Deficit, wasteful spending, constant mistakes, major blow outs on projects
Tasmania is a basket case too.

Whenever Labor gets into power, debt, deficit, wasteful spending and incompetence follows.The problem is Labor and their ideology and policies. It's not an isolated event. The only decent Labor government was Bob Hawke's
05:55pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2389 posts
Windsor was going to lose his seat. He was up against Barnaby Joyce.
Who I admit is a bit of a nutcase much like Bob Katter but he is a popular nutcase because of his passion he shares for his electorate.
05:59pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13925 posts
I'm voting for Labor at the moment because I have a strongly belief that the NBN is important and that the Liberal version is very crap.

Since Liberal has no other real policy they care to tell me about, I don't see why I should vote for them. Perhaps if Tony spent more time talking about their policies rather than demanding elections and other random stuff I might have something to think about. I also expect him and his party to be able to get their policy information out there in the general media so I can find it easily. I want people debating the policies in detail, not about how awesome Kruddler is as a media whore.

Abbot and his party should surely realise by now that trying to beat KRudd at the Media spectacle game will lead to failure, it is one of his strongest skills it seems. Abbot has piss poor media spinning ability, so they need to change their strategy ASAP, what was 'working' for the last 2 years doesn't work any more, if they can't adapt to that how can I be convinced they can adapt to the changing world if they won government?
06:12pm 11/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20165 posts
If NBN is the dominant issue for you then what in the world could possibly change your mind? You don't sound like a swinging voter. Parties only appeal to swinging voters.
06:15pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13926 posts
infi, it is certainly an issue I care about. I would certainly balance it against other heavy weight policies. I've voted for both sides (plus other sides) during my voting time.
06:20pm 11/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10434 posts
The NBN is going to be decades away from completion.
If you want a fast connection why shouldnt You pay for it ?
For me The NBN is about Cost vs Benefit vs time and the cost is extremely expensive and a long time to wait for completion.
I can understand Turnbulls view on this, he did a good job of explaining it on Q&A Monday night.

Even if the Coalition goes ahead with their plan (and they might not) it doesn't mean a decision couldnt be made in the future for Node to Home to be financed by other means or a composite of public/private.

maybe the Coalition and Labor will belt out a more realistic NBN Plan.
Such a big project should have a bipartisan understanding.

the most retarded thing i have ever read on this forum.


Citation Required
07:03pm 11/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6417 posts
Holden oz hostage - $$$ to stem a flood of bogan tears

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/07/holden-us-hostage/
07:05pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1407 posts
Wow, could you have said anything more ridiculous than that. Suggesting healthcare/police/fire assistance would disappear under a Liberal government is the most retarded thing i have ever read on this forum.
And you work in what? Something far from any of those services to even see first hand what Newman's string pulling has been doing huh.
You know 25+ hour shifts are becoming a normal regular occurrence right?
I suppose you don't mind if the emergency services people who look after you and make decisions on your life or your families on under such conditions, mmmm?

Furthermore, I was quite clearly referring to as we know it. Fact is its beginning to circle the toilet as is.
You're an idiot if you think I said it was going to disappear completely. And you're a bigger idiot if you think it's going to be better off under Liberal.
07:34pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4328 posts
Perhaps the polls for Gillard were so bad simply because the Australian voters held a big grudge against her for the way she got into the PM position..



Yeah this was kind of what stuck in my mind a bit. Ill freely admit i dont know all the details as to why she did it and had enough backing to get it done. Lets facr facts though, in australia if you appear to knife a coworker or friend you are seen as a dog c*** and thats a stigma thats incredibly hard to shake off and so it should be imho.

Ill give gillard some credit though, she as s*** didnt mind a fight and i found her ability to stand toe to toe with anyone firing questions at her alot more.impressive than that catatonic idiot abbotts. I see rudd as being able to at least stand his ground and have something to say far better than abbotts bobble head impression also.
09:52pm 11/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3760 posts
http://auspol.wikia.com/wiki/The_Tony_Abbott_Files

As Paul keating said, god help us if he becomes prime minister. and i dont even believe in god.
12:08am 12/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20166 posts
Paul Keating would have thought the same thing about John Howard, the best Prime Minister of our time. In fact, Paul Keating would probably say that about anyone who is not him.
12:12am 12/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
309 posts
New candidate to replace Julia Gillard in her seat.

- Joined the Labor party under 1 month ago
- Has never been to Melbourne
- Has never been to her electrorate or lived in her electrorate
- Says she has a connection to the area because her partner use to live in Werribee

This is classic Labor ladies and gentlemen.
12:31am 12/07/13 Permalink
Vash
3761 posts
John Howard, the best Prime Minister of our time.


The same John howard that rode the wave of the mining boom, pre GFC?
The same one who implemented the GST, wasted more money than any recent labor government. And proposed the ridiculous work choices. Sold off more assets than any Labor government, to get some quick cash in the coffers.
It's thanks to recent Labor spending that has had us avoid recession post GFC. So many great policies since Howard, there was no way we'd get an NBN under a Liberal government.

Read that Auspol wiki and get back to me.
12:56am 12/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2390 posts
Some would say Howard encouraged the mining boom with the introduciton of free trade agreements with China in particular as well as other incentives.

The GST in hindsight was a good thing as it catches people that used to dodges other forms of tax.

$96 billion of debt inherited by the Howard Government was from the prvious Labor Party in 1996 when he came into power.

When the Labor government came to office in 2007, there was no debt at all. Rather, government net debt was minus $45 billion, which was nearly 4 per cent of GDP.

I personally don't know anyone that was worse off by work choices so please explain your personal experience's or are you simply regurgitating union bs?

Over the period Howard was in government they sold $72b in assets. Which they never would of had to if they didn't inherrit $96b in debt.

And now Australia has gone from 4 per cent of GDP in the black to 10 per cent in the red in the space of four years under Labor rule. Now that is a record by historical standards.(here is where you blame the GFC)

01:47am 12/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7841 posts
It always makes me cringe when i see someone write "i'm not voting for abbot because abbots an idiot" You are voting for a party and the team behind it.

While the coalition puts Abbott as their leader before Turnbull, they make it clear where they stand on climate change and social progressiveness, so in the Lib's case the choice of representative communicates a great deal.

The NBN is going to be decades away from completion.
If you want a fast connection why shouldnt You pay for it ?

Users pay for the cost of their NBN connection under both the Labor and Coalition plans, through user fees over time.
03:31am 12/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36009 posts
all you need know about john howard (ie hes a failure)

07:42am 12/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4329 posts
I remember seeing that and god i felt bad for him. Dont get me wrong i hate the guy, but thats some hardcore humiliation.
08:58am 12/07/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2177 posts
09:19am 12/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4330 posts
So he isnt allowed to voice his thoughts on sporting events? Little jack boot Jonny was always spouting on about cricket are the rules different for him?
09:23am 12/07/13 Permalink
Creepy
USA
2178 posts
Who said anything about permission to speak on sports. It was topical.

Sheesh, touchy...
09:38am 12/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4331 posts
By call him that and saying he is at it again you are implying that he is doing something he probably shouldnt. No doubt touching on his aparent love of attention. So no not touchy at all just pointing out that he isnt doing anything anyone else wouldnt do
09:51am 12/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1019 posts
Commenting on the cricket, what a f*****g a-hole. Get a grip idiots.

I would like to see more detailed policy from both sides and an election date soon. These things need to be put on the table and debated.
10:29am 12/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1672 posts
Windsor was going to lose his seat. He was up against Barnaby Joyce..


No he wasn't, Windsor would've smashed Barnaby in his home electorate and had the polls to prove it.
10:31am 12/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20167 posts
Kevin Kardashian


I love it!
11:01am 12/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2391 posts
No he wasn't, Windsor would've smashed Barnaby in his home electorate and had the polls to prove it.

Earlier polls might have suggested that but the ones released only days before he announced he wouldn't contest showed he was going to lose or at least it was going to be tight.
11:21am 12/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1673 posts
Which polls are those?

I can only find one by a conservative media group called Australian Spectator that has a 30% swing in favour of Joyce taking place in less than a month.

bleh, it doesnt really matter I guess, guy stepped down.
11:28am 12/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2392 posts
Yeah I saw that one but I didn't post it because it was only 100 people and seemed too 1 sided.
There was an abc poll that had them neck and neck but I can't find the link.
01:23pm 12/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
310 posts
Everyone's noticing !!!!!!!!!!!!!KEVINNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!'s ego getting out of control once again.

http://mobile.news.com.au/opinion/rudd-just-can8217t-help-himself-when-it-comes-to-adoration/story-fnh4jt54-1226678320371
02:16pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14160 posts
What, News Ltd press giving Kevin a hard time? F***, it must be true then!!
02:30pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Azaria
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1192 posts
What, News Ltd press giving Kevin a hard time? F***, it must be true then!!


Yeah I wouldn't put much stock in any political reporting from news.com unless it is coming from Malcom Farr
02:41pm 12/07/13 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4663 posts
If NBN is the dominant issue for you then what in the world could possibly change your mind? You don't sound like a swinging voter. Parties only appeal to swinging voters.


I Googled "swinging parties" and ended up in this thread. DOH!
03:24pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
120 posts
Interesting read, no one comes out of it looking good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/ashbygate-peter-slipper-james-ashby

04:51pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14161 posts
I Googled "swinging parties" and ended up in this thread. DOH!
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/clapping.gif
05:15pm 12/07/13 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
4007 posts
I'm a swinger and would like a list of policies from the parties, when/where will this be found?
05:35pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13929 posts
Dota 2 is a steal at the moment, 100%. They should totally add that to the sale ;)
05:39pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13930 posts
Wow, totally wrong thread.
05:41pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13936 posts
08:55pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10078 posts
hahah
09:05pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6174 posts
What the hell... it looks like he stole that kid's little cup of tea.
09:05pm 12/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20168 posts
He looks badass: "don't f*** with me Rudd - I drink kid's tea and I don't give a f***. I'm off the rails c***."
09:16pm 12/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10440 posts
09:18pm 12/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14162 posts
He looks badass: "don't f*** with me Rudd - I drink kid's tea and I don't give a f***. I'm off the rails c***."

I just threw up a little.
09:18pm 12/07/13 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
4008 posts
09:20pm 12/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23031 posts
He looks badass: "don't f*** with me Rudd - I drink kid's tea and I don't give a f***. I'm off the rails c***."
whoa, cringeworthy.
09:52am 13/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1676 posts
I laughed
10:20am 13/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20170 posts
fpot's humour nerve was severed in the "door incident".
11:15am 13/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1020 posts
02:50pm 13/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36019 posts
rofls!
04:03pm 13/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14167 posts
hahaha
04:08pm 13/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10080 posts
Sadly the LNP "NBN" policy is far more backwards then a shopping centre train ride and that is what we are about to get and infi approves.
09:31pm 13/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14169 posts
Sadly the LNP "NBN" policy is far more backwards then a shopping centre train ride and that is what we are about to get and infi approves.

Yeh, but to be honest its not the end of the world as far as I can tell. For a few k on top I can get fibre to my house if I miss out on taxpayer-funded fibre. We all know the future is 100meg+ fibre, the Libs are just tightarses.

That said, the NBN is rolling out now at random locations, and its utterly and completely unfair that I will have to pay for the last few hundred metres myself. If I have to pay and it and other people get it for 'free' (aka I f*****g well paid for it) I'll go anti-Liberal for about a decade purely out of spite. IMO its too late to take my taxes and then not give me the f*****g fibre.
11:29pm 13/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1678 posts
So that vid just rehashed the same arguments that were made when the LNP announced their alternative broadband policy. There's no new arguments, pretty much the left equivalent of Bolt level retard. How the this stuff gets federal funding boggles the mind.

Since Rudd got back in we've been hearing nothing truly significant about the LNP. Are they holding back their campaign spend until he announces a date, or do they just have no funds?
12:06am 14/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20176 posts
You make it sound the Coalition plan is to actually uninstall the Internet. Get a grip...
12:35am 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7844 posts
Yeh, but to be honest its not the end of the world as far as I can tell. For a few k on top I can get fibre to my house if I miss out on taxpayer-funded fibre.

It's not taxpayer funded, it's subscriber fee funded. Either way you're paying for it, but under the labor proposal it seems that you have a better chance of getting a better deal (due to the discounted price the whole street being done at once while the workers are already there digging past the houses, more people being likely to take it up when it's an already-available option spreading the cost out even more - as has been seen in the suburbs connected so far which have had better fast-tier subscriptions rates than expected - and not having to pay the upkeep of the FTTN boxes airconditioned year round at the end of your street through user fees).
06:36am 14/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6418 posts
any chance wireless will tear the nbn a new areshole in say 5 years when 5-6g is the norm?
08:02am 14/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36027 posts
not with wireless in its current form, no.
08:09am 14/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13939 posts
Not only is the Liberal NBN plan crap there has been no mention of how either plan affects latency. It seems logical that lib's plan will have higher latency due to their design. Latency is something that a consumer experiences every time they use a network connection. For 'next-gen' technologies to truly take off, cloud computing, video conferencing, doctor-patient consultations, off-shore diagnosis, all this sort of stuff is highly effected by latency. I'd rather not risk lib's plan of not only having a crippled national broadband network, but having a network who's latency may even be no better or worse than today's current network. I wont risk that without something pretty sweet to balance the sheets from Liberal, NOTHING of which they have brought up... Stopping the boats isn't really a big priority for me.
08:16am 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7845 posts
I tried googling up on FTTN latency impact when the Coalition announced their plan, but couldn't find anything. In my opinion latency is in the same tier of importance as speed, due to how much it affects general usage.

There was little information that I could find, but it seemed like it might lie somewhere between fibre and copper, I vaguely recall that it might have been something like 20 ms with an FTTN box transforming the signal, and about 2ms with a straight up fibre connection.
08:35am 14/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
311 posts
Anyone else see that the Greens have announced their election policies today? Absolute comedy gold, hilarious stuff.

- $43 billion in extra expenditure via taxes
- 4 new taxes, tax increases

Christine Milne was on insiders this morning ranting around companies making profits and how they are going to tax them, also millionaires are going to have half of their wealth taxed. Barry said "You haven't made any budget savings or cuts, are you saying that the budget is perfect and there is no waste?" she then went on to rant about fossil fuels in response.

I struggle to understand how people vote for this clearly extremist party. You would either need to be delusional or have some form of mental illness.
09:46am 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7847 posts
I struggle to understand how people vote for this clearly extremist party. You would either need to be delusional or have some form of mental illness.

The irony coming from Door, the frothing mentally ill champion of these threads.
09:48am 14/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18397 posts
and its utterly and completely unfair that I will have to pay for the last few hundred metres myself


I feel your pain

oh wait, no I don't - rofles
09:52am 14/07/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
9622 posts
.I struggle to understand how people vote for this clearly extremist party. You would either need to be delusional or have some form of mental illness.
I struggle to see how people can vote for a delusional and backwards party like Liberal.
10:39am 14/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6178 posts
Not only is the Liberal NBN plan crap there has been no mention of how either plan affects latency.

I agree Toll, but I reckon it'd be lost cause educating the average Joe on what latency is in the limited bit spots on the 7:30 report.
I recently had a head desk moment when a coworker who should well know the difference came to me with a problem caused by latency and had a hard time understanding why increasing bandwidth on our low utilisation link wouldn't make any difference.

It's cringeworthy every time MPs get up and imply the only important metric how many "megs" everyone will get, and ignore reliability, latency, and ongoing maintenance cost.
10:40am 14/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13940 posts
On going maintenance costs are another governments problem. :P
10:44am 14/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10444 posts
There is nobody in the Coalition who thinks their Plan is technically superior to Labors. The NBN is an awesome idea, no doubts about that.
But its the cost.

The NBN reminds me a little of that Simpsons episode and how Homer promised everyone that their rubbish and dirty deeds would be cleaned up and whilst it was certainly possible they blew the budget in the first week.
(Trash of the Titans)

We already have some of the worlds most expensive Electricity, Water charges, is our Broadband going to be the most expensive too ?


11:16am 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7848 posts
I feel your painoh wait, no I don't - rofles

Yet his fees will be subsidising the other installations already done under the original plan, while not getting that benefit himself, and if somebody moves, they'd have to pay again and again under this plan, for no apparent benefit except so that the Coalition can say "Not the NBN" after News Corp has been raging on about it every day for years.

But its the cost.

The NBN reminds me a little of that Simpsons episode and how Homer promised everyone that their rubbish and dirty deeds would be cleaned up and whilst it was certainly possible they blew the budget in the first week.
(Trash of the Titans)

We already have some of the worlds most expensive Electricity, Water charges, is our Broadband going to be the most expensive too ?

You are aware that NBN Corp's prices for currently available speeds are locked in right? It won't cost you any more than it currently does for the same speed, for a much better connection quality, with optional upgradability, because it's the big spenders who are happy to spend more for faster speeds who subsidise the utility company, and they've proven to be an even greater share of the market than the business plan estimated, so faster speeds can probably also be cheaper.
11:18am 14/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1021 posts
Anyone else see that the Greens have announced their election policies today? Absolute comedy gold, hilarious stuff.- $43 billion in extra expenditure via taxes- 4 new taxes, tax increasesChristine Milne was on insiders this morning ranting around companies making profits and how they are going to tax them, also millionaires are going to have half of their wealth taxed. Barry said "You haven't made any budget savings or cuts, are you saying that the budget is perfect and there is no waste?" she then went on to rant about fossil fuels in response.I struggle to understand how people vote for this clearly extremist party. You would either need to be delusional or have some form of mental illness.


Taxing the banks (which basically have public insurance), fixing the mining tax and a 5% increase in tax for millionares, f*** man sounds pretty extreme.

It is better choice than reducing the tax free threshold for people earning under 80K.
11:25am 14/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10081 posts
any chance wireless will tear the nbn a new areshole in say 5 years when 5-6g is the norm?

I live in a capital city, can't get 4G, and 3G is sketchy and drops out.

So I'd say no.
11:45am 14/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20177 posts
We can build a better economy by increasing taxes? S*** I never knew it was that easy, let's just go all the way then.
11:46am 14/07/13 Permalink
shad
Brisbane, Queensland
4001 posts
Latency on 3g/4g is a problem. I remember when the gunman was in the Queen Street Mall and all of a sudden just about all Data stops working in the CBD.
11:48am 14/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10445 posts
What happened to The Greens ?
It used to be about saving Trees and Whales.
Now its Robin Hood Tax policies and destroying job creating Industries.

The Milne womans voice really annoys me.
11:59am 14/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
312 posts
Taxing the banks (which basically have public insurance), fixing the mining tax and a 5% increase in tax for millionares, f*** man sounds pretty extreme.It is better choice than reducing the tax free threshold for people earning under 80K.


Here let me fix your post for you.

"fixing the mining tax" - Increasing the tax and ramping it up
"5% increase in tax for millionaires" - Yep, to 50% of their income.

Not to mention increasing the carbon tax and a levy on bank profits. So basically they will pay tax and then their profit after tax will be taxed again. Yay for Greens logic.

The Greens are socialists and don't care about the economy or how well business do.

What happened to The Greens ?
It used to be about saving Trees and Whales.
Now its Robin Hood Tax policies and destroying job creating Industries.

The Milne womans voice really annoys me.


The socialists and communists took over. Now they use environmentalism as a disguise.
01:20pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
121 posts
I'm trying to work out whether you know what socialism actually means and whether anything in Greens policy is socialist policy?

"5% increase in tax for millionaires" - Yep, to 50% of their income.

This indicates to me that you don't pay much in the way of tax yourself because you don't seem to understand how a progressive tax system works. Notwithstanding the huge variety of tax offsets available that if anyone who earns >1 mil per year is actually paying anywhere near 50% tax then they should get new accountants.

01:50pm 14/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18398 posts
don't let reality get in the way of a good rant Fireman Sam
01:59pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13942 posts
We already have some of the worlds most expensive Electricity, Water charges, is our Broadband going to be the most expensive too ?


Probably, our land mass to population ratio is pretty infrastructure intensive. So if we are going to be paying big money either way, I'd rather pay that extra bit for a significantly better system.
02:06pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7849 posts
I like how Door/Faceman never ever answer the criticisms of their frothing.
02:40pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14170 posts
So under the NBNL (NBN Lite lol) do people with fibre connections pay the same as people with copper?
02:53pm 14/07/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23033 posts
I used to like political threads on QGL till I realised it is pretty much just the same people posting until they reach a critical mass point of wrongness, people desperately trying to show them reason, and then instead of learning from it they'll just froth away on some new tangent. Then when they have reached the critical mass point of wrongness on every single topic that the thread could possibly cover the thread dies, only for a new politics thread to crop up at a later date and for them to be wrong all over again about the exact same topics covered in the previous thread and for the process to literally repeat itself. I mean, when you have to change your name repeatedly and re-reg accounts to try and give yourself a fresh start on an internet forum you've got to be doing a lot of things wrong.

So now I just read and chuckle at the drivel posted by the usual suspects. It's better then wasting your time trying to respond to it.
03:05pm 14/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
313 posts
I'm trying to work out whether you know what socialism actually means and whether anything in Greens policy is socialist policy?
.


1 of the main principles of Socialism is the redistribution of wealth. It's why the Greens love tax. It's why their newly announced increase to the newstart allowance is going to be funded by their new taxes and tax increases along with the 43 billion dollars in extra expenditure that they have announced. They are also anti-business and especially anti-private business as their new policies today have shown.


I like how Door/Faceman never ever answer the criticisms of their frothing.


I responded to Firemans post, if you are referring to your post, i can't be bothered as all you write is "OMGGG DOOOR" despite me not being this Door character and you have nothing to contribute to the debate/discussion.
03:50pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
122 posts
1 of the main principles of Socialism is the redistribution of wealth. It's why the Greens love tax. It's why their newly announced increase to the newstart allowance is going to be funded by their new taxes and tax increases along with the 43 billion dollars in extra expenditure that they have announced. They are also anti-business and especially anti-private business as their new policies today have shown.


No. Socialism involves creating and entirely different economic and legal structure. There is nothing socialist about changing tax rates and any suggestion otherwise just makes you look like an idiot.

This absolutist and infallible position you take of the LNP, and by de facto every other party being entirely bad, is absurd. All parties and people have good and bad points. Positions you agree with and positions you don't. When you stop listening to those alternative positions, you're just asking to be taken advantage of.

A democratic parliament should be a bustling debate of informed differing ideas, not a proxy vote for the very few in power at the top.
04:28pm 14/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20178 posts
Wrong Fireman Sam, where tax rates rise to a punitive level there is no longer an economic incentive to create more production. At this point the economy stagnates - a perfect opportunity for the government to buy assets or nationalise them.

The term "socialist" used in popular political debate refers to policies requiring people to pay for the lifestyle and benefits of other through the forced redistribution of their wealth. From each according to their ability to each according to their needs.... Sound familiar?
05:05pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Nerf Stormborn
Brisbane, Queensland
7851 posts
The term socialism for non hysterical right wing ningbuts means things like socialised schooling, roads, police, research, etc, because these things don't make sense to be privatised nor would work in a decent way if we tried, yet are critical foundations of all of the successful nations on earth.
05:17pm 14/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
314 posts
No. There is nothing socialist about changing tax rates and any suggestion otherwise just makes you look like an idiot.


I'm not saying it's "socialist" to change tax rates. Socialists know the best way to redistribute wealth is through massive tax increases and numerous new taxes used to fund big new welfare programs. If you look at any socialist party or government in any western capitalist nation in the world, the main hallmark of their principles is the redistribution of wealth.

Socialism involves creating and entirely different economic and legal structure


Yes, i know. I don't know why you are trying to deny that the Greens are a Socialist party. They openly subscribe to Democratic Socialism along with the Labor party and Democratic Socialism is all about transitioning from Capitalism to Socialism.

Some quotes from wikipedia for you.

Democratic socialism is a variant of socialism that rejects centralized, elitist, or authoritarian methods of transitioning from capitalism to socialism in favor of grassroots-level movements aiming for the immediate creation of decentralized economic democracy.
The term is often used by socialists who favor either electoral transition to socialism or a spontaneous mass revolution from below to distinguish themselves from authoritarian socialists that call for a single-party state, most notably to contrast with Stalinists and Maoists.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

The term socialism for non hysterical right wing ningbuts means things like socialised schooling, roads, police, research, etc, because these things don't make sense to be privatised nor would work in a decent way if we tried, yet are critical foundations of all of the successful nations on earth.


Once again, Nerf flies in with insults and adds nothing of substance to add to the debate/discussion.

Why bother defending the Greens? They are openly a Socialist party and openly campaign on their Socialist agenda. They LOVE speaking about "Social Justice" which is their soft term for redisitrubtion of wealth
06:05pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
123 posts
That's taking the argument to it's extremities though infi. No one is advocating taxation rates that result in individuals having similar take home incomes no matter their initial earnings. It's just pure paranoia and fear mongering to suggest that anyone of substance is even thinking that.

Please enlighten me on the wonderful and extravagant lifestyles of those on welfare that is being paid for by those poor hard done by multimillionares who lead such difficult lives. Please explain to me how the work they've put into making those millions hasn't made their lives better because they know that some of their income is going to another help another person live below the poverty line.

Yes, i know. I don't know why you are trying to deny that the Greens are a Socialist party. They openly subscribe to Democratic Socialism along with the Labor party and Democratic Socialism is all about transitioning from Capitalism to Socialism.


Some evidence of this would be nice. "Openly subscribe" says that there should be much about in writing to this, either that or your just speaking out of your arse. I'm a member of the Greens and I don't think I personally know anyone that is a socialist let alone it being a party platform. Chances are my income is way above yours as a fair chunk of it is drawn from 15 years of share market investment. I certainly don't want to change from capitalism to socialism. I've benefited far too much from capitalism. I wouldn't be a member of the party if I thought that was the position.
06:21pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14172 posts
Some evidence of this would be nice. "Openly subscribe" says that there should be much about in writing to this, either that or your just speaking out of your arse.

I don't know about the Greens, but the ALP's status as a democractic socialist party is a fact.
Labor's constitution states: "The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."[1] This "socialist objective" was introduced in 1921, but has always been heavily qualified by wording which makes it clear that Labor supports private property.

...

Today Labor defines itself as "a coalition that includes reformers, radicals, progressives, social democrats and democratic socialists united by a critique of the inequalities in society, a commitment to a more just and equal society, and the achieving of this aim by democratic means."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party

The Greens are a 'green politics' party but their reform agenda is much wider than simple environmental issues including broad changes to wealth distribution such as via estate taxes etc. They are a complex beast no longer confined to a single issue and generally considered to be social democrats, and significantly left of Labor. Their Economics policy page includes a lot of non-environmental policy about improving equity and reducing poverty, primarily though an expanded revenue base (greater progressive taxation).

How you could be a Member of the Greens and not be aware of their policies boggles the mind.
06:42pm 14/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18399 posts
I always have to lol at the greens policy to remove coal power in 30 years

It is always fun smashing people on facebook who like to throw around feel good comments about voting for the greens with some of their actual nutbag policies
06:54pm 14/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10082 posts
Infi being deceptive as usual ...
Faceman being crazy ...

Thread is still on rails.
06:59pm 14/07/13 Permalink
PeterThePossumMan
Melbourne, Victoria
315 posts
All it takes is a simple Google search as Hogfather did. Fireman Sam is a classic example of someone who mindlessly votes and follows the Greens without knowing their full, extremist and stupid agenda just because the Greens entice them in with buzz issues that they have no real serious intention of fixing or no actual way of implementing(such as all the unfunded infrastructure they plan on building etc.) It all sounds good on paper, and the Greens pretend they can wave a wand and get it done. Most of the Greens policies are simply comedy gold.

I have an associate who just recently became a member of the Greens in Victoria because the Greens are promising to build the Doncaster Rail Line despite it costing 11 billion dollars and not being economically viable.

Buzz issues is how they get their votes while their real agenda remains hidden.
08:39pm 14/07/13 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
11029 posts
I agree with f***pot.
08:48pm 14/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6423 posts
08:19am 16/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1022 posts
This is pretty interesting.

http://theconversation.com/au/factcheck

Election FactCheck is an independent, non-partisan public service that will test the truthfulness of political statements during Australia’s federal election campaign.
Academics with subject expertise will check claims by politicians, interest groups and the media for accuracy. A second academic will independently review the check.
08:57am 16/07/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13947 posts
That is a good website.
10:05am 16/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10448 posts
That factcheck site is headed up by a guy that tweeted insults at Coalition members.
Was on Media Watch 2 weeks ago.
10:51am 16/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20180 posts
Hey he should work for the ABC then.
11:02am 16/07/13 Permalink
Strik3r
Brisbane, Queensland
2154 posts
Great article by Greg Rudd

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/kevin-rudd-my-brother-our-leader/story-e6frg6z6-1226679809936


I have no idea about any of his policies or political alignment, but that is a really well written article from (what sounds like) a balanced and measured person.
11:04am 16/07/13 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1682 posts
That factcheck site is headed up by a guy that tweeted insults at Coalition members.
Was on Media Watch 2 weeks ago.


Maybe you should invest in a little bit of fact checking. The media watch report was about a different person - Russel Skelton - and it was for the ABC's fact checking unit.

The conversation fact checking site appears to be headed up by Gay Alcorn of The Age.
11:24am 16/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18440 posts
i'm not entirely sure that Joe Hockey could make himself look like a bigger douchebag on sunrise these days

Penny Wong owned him this morning and all she had to do was be calm and speak sense

sunrise ask joe about a policy and he answers with a usual tyrade about what kevin rudd did wrong completely ignoring the question, it was hilarious
07:41am 19/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36054 posts
poor old joe is being told to toe the company line and is looking the goose for it :(

im sure hes not actually that retarded.
07:52am 19/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36055 posts
haha, i was enjoying the junior LNP's frothing at the mouth about people on welfare living it up at everyones expense, blowing their fat stax on durgs and booze and smokes and durgs.

THATS MY MONEY THEY ARE SPENDING ON THAT GOOD TIEM!!!!!!!!!!

/outraged
07:54am 19/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20184 posts
All the dope fiends on the dole. Watch out, we are cleaning this town up.
08:08am 19/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4344 posts
poor old joe is being told to toe the company line and is looking the goose for it :(

im sure hes not actually that retarded.


I am inclined to feel the same way. The guy has never seemed like a bad bloke to be honest and he'd probably be pretty decent to have a beer and a yack with.
08:27am 19/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18441 posts
Geez coalition must me watering at the mouth at the poles for rudd vs turnbull as preferred pm

Now we'll see the true coalition colours as rudd is spanking abbott as preferred pm still :]
08:47am 19/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36056 posts
yer, if i were tone, id be well nervous
09:16am 19/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36059 posts
All the dope fiends on the dole. Watch out, we are cleaning this town up.


dealing with the big issues bro;

number 1 issue: boat people
number 2 issue: people on the dole who smoke weed
09:24am 19/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4345 posts
Dont be shocked if they try to link boat people being on the dole smoking pot while watching 70" plasma tv's.
09:54am 19/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
933 posts
pot smoking dole bludgers are people smugglers, so have loads of undeclared income for pot and TVs?
10:03am 19/07/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6195 posts
pot smoking dole bludgers are people smugglers, so have loads of undeclared income for pot and TVs


and we'll have more on that story, after the break...
http://i.imgur.com/f3YJQB1.png
10:08am 19/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10465 posts
Legalise Pot and create Jobs for Pot smokers on the Dole.
12:02pm 19/07/13 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
1427 posts
Legalise Pot and create Jobs for Pot smokers on the Dole.


ARE YOU KIDDING? THAT IS ACTUALLY THE .... best idea I've heard in a long time.

+1
01:58pm 19/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20187 posts
The motion failed. Smoke away.
01:59pm 19/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4350 posts
With policies like that facemen might end up taking the libs top job. That single line has more info in it than any of their current policies
02:48pm 19/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36060 posts
commonsense prevails with the junior LNP?

WTF!?
03:20pm 19/07/13 Permalink
Rukh
Brisbane, Queensland
875 posts
I'm surprised no-one has commented yet on Rudd's complete nullification of Abbott's Stop The Boats message with his announcement this afternoon.

(Note: I don't like the new policy, but in terms of bringing it to Abbott it's a pretty bold move).
09:21pm 19/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
935 posts
Yeah until it gets swatted down in the high court.

A policy that is un-abashedly disregarding Australia's treaty commitments doesn't stand a huge chance.

Still it might stick it to Abbott but the criticism of "I will say whatever it takes to get into power" is now just as, if not more so, fairly pointed at Rudd.

There is absolutely nothing this guy won't do
09:26pm 19/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20188 posts
What's there to discuss? It's the same old Kevin.
09:54pm 19/07/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10471 posts
Lateline showed Papua New Guinea people saying they don't want the refugees.
Labors left wont like this
Will the Greens give Labor preferences if they do this ?

Its another Kevin Rudd Miracle.
He'll never get to the UN now.
11:06pm 19/07/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2402 posts
From what I understand about this policy I like everything about it except for the price. I would imagine it will cost somewhere between $3-10B a year for this solution. Kevin has promised quite a lot of upgrades to png hospitals and other facilities to get the deal through.
11:43pm 19/07/13 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4259 posts
Lateline showed Papua New Guinea people saying they don't want the refugees.

they shouldn't worry

not one boat will come if they think they'll get sent to PNG instead
12:52am 20/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18447 posts
Love abott's reply "i like this policy but *generic kevin rudd criticism without any real basis*"
07:39am 20/07/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36062 posts
sending boat people elsewhere is a s*** decision all round

fail
09:04am 20/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18450 posts
nah i personally like it, that and the nbn has me on board with labor

sorry i don't feel the need to pay for those peeps, sorry if i am offending the do gooders
09:24am 20/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
936 posts
sorry i don't feel the need to pay for those peeps


This is the part that I really can never get. Locking them up and sending them to PNG or whereever, costs a fortune. Rudd said when he announced this, its a huge budget commitment, but that its going to be budget neutral.

If it's a huge budget commitment and it's going to be budget neutral, well your going to be paying for them, AND your going to lose some service when the cut something else to make it all work.

Letting them in after a few medical / security checks, is by far and away the cheapest option.
10:31am 20/07/13 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7961 posts
they shouldn't worry

not one boat will come if they think they'll get sent to PNG instead

Pretty much.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/07/BoatArrivals.gif/800px-BoatArrivals.gif
10:33am 20/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18452 posts
yes it costs a fortune but i'd hedge a pretty good wager that housing them and supporting them, potentially forever will cost more in the long term

and the point is to deter them in the first place like howard did
10:33am 20/07/13 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
937 posts
Yeah but you don't house and support them forever. Once they are in they can starting working etc. The sooner they are part of the community the sooner they don't have to be supported by the public purse.

You still have to house and support them once the detention is up and they get approved, which the overwhelming majority do. The detention is a massive and largely needless cost.
10:43am 20/07/13 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
6426 posts
Anything that stops people commiting suicide by boat, can only be a good thing.
11:00am 20/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18453 posts
Once they are in they can starting working etc


key word being can bro
11:19am 20/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20189 posts
Kevin can't manage the boat people himself so he just outsources the entire problem to PNG - and for what price? Billions of taxpayer dollars.

Kevin reversed the successful John Howard policies in 2007 and now has introduced a more extreme policy. Does this man stand for ANYTHING?
12:05pm 20/07/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
4084 posts
who dafuq here voted the Dudd to replace Howard?
12:52pm 20/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4352 posts
Yes infi he does, he exists entirely to ensure that you have something to cry yourself to sleep at night over.
12:59pm 20/07/13 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
9176 posts
All we need to do is show a few extreme acts of violence towards these boats and they will stop coming.

Just have to navy do some practice shooting for a few weeks and they will get the idea.
01:14pm 20/07/13 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10088 posts
so he just outsources the entire problem

How is turning around the boats managing it yourself ?

It's a really pathetic that popular politics in Australia has made it ok for things like the PNG solution to be "ok".

But it was a clever move, how will the LNP differentiate it self on boats now ? short of letting the navy use them for shooting practice they have to appear "softer".


03:40pm 20/07/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1024 posts
This latest asylum seaker policy from labor is f*****g disgusting. It makes me yearn for Howard's boarder policies.

It is a sad day to be an Australian.
06:07pm 20/07/13 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4355 posts
So howard punts them to naru and thats fine, but when rudd punts them to PNG thats not? What am i missing here?
06:19pm 20/07/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
20190 posts
So howard punts them to naru and thats fine, but when rudd punts them to PNG thats not? What am i missing here?


under Howard they go to nauru are assessed and then granted TPVs.

under Rudd they are sent to PNG and never seen again.
06:35pm 20/07/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18458 posts
i thought he said he would be reintroducing TPV's? fairly certain that was mentioned

the rest that aren't actually seeking assylum rather that just running from the unfortunate country they were born in
06:39pm 20/07/13