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National Disability Insurance Scheme
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13828 posts
You've heard of it by now, the NDIS. Can't believe we haven't argued about it yet!

The skinny is about unifying and improving disability support services in Australia. At the moment, the quality and quantity of care you receive is largely subject to how you acquired a disability.

A simple example would be Bob, Jane and Mandy.
  • Bob is hit by a car and is covered by our ubiquitous 3rd party insurance. He's still in a s*** place but relatively speaking, financially secure and can make his own choices about care.

  • Jane is playing in the backyard with her kids. She's a bit of a gumby and falls off the trampoline and sustains the same injury. Her support and care options are limited and depend on her personally maintained insurance, residential location (in particular your State matters a lot) and financial position. Jane may be ok if she works and has income protection or PDD insurance.

  • Mandy is a baby. She has Cerebral Palsy, and was born with it. Poor Mandy, I hope her parents are rich!

The NDIS seeks to remove the fundamental inequity of disability services and provide a national baseline of care and support, creating a medicare-style program for care funding (I think!). We all pay in, and even if we don't have insurance or can sue something for a cause of our disabilities, we have some measure control over our care choices and get a minimum level of support.

Anyway, both sides of politics seem to believe that this is an important reform. In particular I think that folding it into a federal-level scheme is important for national equity. But can we afford it? Can we look people struggling with the burden in the eye and declare we can't afford it while the largesse of middle class welfare like the baby bonus remains? Thoughts?

Disclosure: I have MS. I will probably at some point benefit from such a scheme. I'm working hard to create independent wealth and to not be a burden on the system, but the clock is ticking...!
01:14pm 30/04/13 Permalink
system
Internet
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01:14pm 30/04/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18080 posts
I'm working hard to create independent wealth and to not be a burden on the system


haven't you watched breaking bad?
01:24pm 30/04/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3055 posts
I'm all for baseline support, it's the way our society is constructed and I'm personally a fan of our society.

The affordability argument is political bulls*** IMO. It's not whether we can afford it or not, we can, it's whether its going to be a priority or not spending wise.

Politicians seem to be bats*** crazy when it comes to spending priorities. Just look at Qld LNP, looking to save money by shutting down schools and the Minister for Education thinks Saturday detention is a brilliant idea because having to employ people to keep schools open and kids supervised another day of the week is just what you do when you are making the case to sell off everything.
01:31pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13829 posts
Yeh deadly, that's the bit I have trouble with. Priorities are wonky as.
haven't you watched breaking bad?

I'm the one who knocks, b****.
01:34pm 30/04/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19832 posts
I am in favour of a safety net for those with disabilities, however it must be paid for. The current situation sees Australia's budget in structural deficit so it would be irresponsible to rack up more recurrent spending without paying for it (same Goes for Education funding).

So unless there are cuts to spending or tax increases then the program cannot be afforded. I am not willing to pay more tax so the government should cut other programs. I would start with the $20b Baby Bonus and Family Tax Benefit.
01:55pm 30/04/13 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
11117 posts
To me this sounds like the government should already have this equality for disability. However I don't agree with me having to fork out cash just because the stupid politicians haven't already figured this s*** out 100 years ago. From what I hear they want to charge us $300 per person on top of tax. So it doesn't matter whether you earn $30k a year, or $200k a year - same price.
Take it out of existing tax, or forget about it.

I already pay income replacement insurance and for something called PBF which is like a charity for paraplegics but if you get paraplegia you get a share of the prize money. http://www.pbf.asn.au/index.php?id=74
01:55pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35611 posts
taxes are too damn high, cant someone else pay them!

02:32pm 30/04/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3980 posts
You've heard of it by now, the NDIS. Can't believe we haven't argued about it yet!The skinny is about unifying and improving disability support services in Australia. At the moment, the quality and quantity of care you receive is largely subject to how you acquired a disability.A simple example would be Bob, Jane and Mandy.
  • Bob is hit by a car and is covered by our ubiquitous 3rd party insurance. He's still in a s*** place but relatively speaking, financially secure and can make his own choices about care.
  • Jane is playing in the backyard with her kids. She's a bit of a gumby and falls off the trampoline and sustains the same injury. Her support and care options are limited and depend on her personally maintained insurance, residential location (in particular your State matters a lot) and financial position. Jane may be ok if she works and has income protection or PDD insurance.
  • Mandy is a baby. She has Cerebral Palsy, and was born with it. Poor Mandy, I hope her parents are rich!
The NDIS seeks to remove the fundamental inequity of disability services and provide a national baseline of care and support, creating a medicare-style program for care funding (I think!). We all pay in, and even if we don't have insurance or can sue something for a cause of our disabilities, we have some measure control over our care choices and get a minimum level of support.Anyway, both sides of politics seem to believe that this is an important reform. In particular I think that folding it into a federal-level scheme is important for national equity. But can we afford it? Can we look people struggling with the burden in the eye and declare we can't afford it while the largesse of middle class welfare like the baby bonus remains? Thoughts?Disclosure: I have MS. I will probably at some point benefit from such a scheme. I'm working hard to create independent wealth and to not be a burden on the system, but the clock is ticking...!


just be aware, if bob is hit by a car, and the driver cant be found he currently isn't covered by CTP, so bob would be somewhat worse off than jane

the way I see it currently the system off support is great for those born with, or aquire a disability (where there is someone to blame for the cause)

currently those that say have a stroke while swimming laps at the local Y, and dont die are pretty much f***ed as far as support goes, and the same with those that say get cleaned up by a cyclist or a car that is unrego'd or the driver cant be find
02:41pm 30/04/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
959 posts
Let the free market handle the disabled...

But seriously, the NDIS is a good move, I am sure the government will find some bureaucratic way to bungle it though and it will be in the papers for the wrong reasons once implemented.
02:57pm 30/04/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10162 posts
Where will the money come from ?
The ALP has come up with a very expensive Policy when they cant afford to fund it, knowing they have no chance of ever being re-elected.

This will create a lot of jobs but as its funded via taxpayers, much like Universal Healthcare, there will be no incentive to make the scheme cost competitive.
It will get very expensive and even more money will be needed as it grows.







03:46pm 30/04/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3986 posts
faceman, the same was said about CTP at first

I think a medicare levy while at first it sounds pretty rough, but long term, it would be good for all.
03:50pm 30/04/13 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10163 posts
Mandy is a baby. She has Cerebral Palsy, and was born with it. Poor Mandy, I hope her parents are rich!


There is a bit in the news about couples from Medieval Religions that only want to have boys and are asking for girls to be aborted.
charming.

Suppose the NDIS says to a Mother who is pregnant with a disabled baby you can keep the baby and the NDIS will pick up/contribute to the costs of raising it or we will give you $5000 if you abort. This would save the NDIS a lot of money.
Is that where we are headed ?
03:51pm 30/04/13 Permalink
SheerObesity
Melbourne, Victoria
201 posts
It's going to be paid for by a new levy that the Gillard government said they wouldn't be introducing.

I saw this coming a mile away. Labor simply cant be trusted as proven once again.
03:52pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13830 posts
There is a bit in the news about couples from Medieval Religions that only want to have boys and are asking for girls to be aborted.
charming.

Suppose the NDIS says to a Mother who is pregnant with a disabled baby you can keep the baby and the NDIS will pick up/contribute to the costs of raising it or we will give you $5000 if you abort. This would save the NDIS a lot of money.
Is that where we are headed ?

100% pure facey
04:02pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
35613 posts
is it cruel and unkind to now wish a disabled child on sheerobesity?

or should we way up the risk of it procreating+!?
04:06pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Enska
Sydney, New South Wales
1983 posts
My Step brother has severe epilepsy (can't walk,talk eat etc) and I know the place he lives in does it pretty tough, as do the understaffed and underpaid employees that look after him.
I know f*** all and care even less about politics, but I for one would like to see these lovely people and the ones they care for receive an increase in funding and support. Keep in mind he is custody of the state (or whatever it is when you get given up by the parents), so I speak of government run homes etc.

ps. SheerObesity is Tony Abbot, surely. Labor simply cant be trusted as proven once again? wow, at least swap some words around champ, I hear the bloke say that pretty much every news run.
no wonder fpot constantly singles you out, your about as politically savvy as my big toe.
04:54pm 30/04/13 Permalink
SheerObesity
Melbourne, Victoria
202 posts
is it cruel and unkind to now wish a disabled child on sheerobesity?

or should we way up the risk of it procreating+!?


I support the NDIS, the issue is that Labor ruled out paying for it via a levy and now they are going to introduce a levy. It's a bit like how they ruled out a carbon tax. Once again Labor has lied.

ps. SheerObesity is Tony Abbot, surely. Labor simply cant be trusted as proven once again? wow, at least swap some words around champ, I hear the bloke say that pretty much every news run.


Does he? It's a pretty basic line with basic words that anyone would use to point out the fact that Labor us once again lied.

Should i change the line to something like "Thy Labor cannot be trusted as per proven once again" so i don't sound like tony abbot? /rollseyes At the end of the day, the statement is true.
07:56pm 30/04/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3057 posts
You'd think someone with as many identities as you would be more forgiving of a Government changing it's policies as the situation changes, or as you call it, lying.

Wasn't avoiding perma-bans through making new accounts against the forum rules?
08:00pm 30/04/13 Permalink
shad
Brisbane, Queensland
3941 posts
I support the NDIS. Faceman can now get the help he deserves.
08:09pm 30/04/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19835 posts
Seriously, is anyone on this board prepared to say that Labor CAN be trusted? I am in real need of a laugh. Please spook can you say it for me?
08:09pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13833 posts
I don't think any politician can be trusted.

Out of curiosity, how will the Coalition be fixing the structural issues with the budget? Last time I looked Tony was refusing to answer that line with any detail these days :(
08:11pm 30/04/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19836 posts
The same way they fixed it in 1996 :)
08:15pm 30/04/13 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
961 posts
The same way they fixed it in 1996 :)


By leveraging private debt instead of public! woooooo

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2012/8/27/interest-rates/abbotts-not-so-golden-years
08:46pm 30/04/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19837 posts
By leveraging private debt instead of public!


The great thing about private debt is that it is incurred voluntarily by individuals choosing to assume certain risks based on commercial evaluation. Furthermore, it is normally secured by assets which if banks have assessed to lending risk correctly will have recourse against. Private debt is completely divorced from public debt - the two are in no way related.

Public debt is assumed by carefree governments who piss away someone else's money on grandiose social programs and money go rounds all in the name of promoting their own profile. The only recourse for negligent public lending is increasing taxes on the bunnies (taxpayers).
09:52pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13834 posts
piss away someone else's money on grandiose social programs

You had me until here, I wish you could hold off on the crazy language sometimes. I get a sense that you have something interesting and worthwhile to say about politics but keep ruining it with soap boxing.

Anyway, I guess you're talking about Labor's NDIS here, and not Howard's baby bonus?
10:39pm 30/04/13 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2929 posts
I think the NDIS is one of the required social reforms that need to be made. They are talking about a .5% medicare levy I will gladly pay it. I would rather that we removed some of the other more dopey welfare offerings ie the baby bonus - but out of the many many things the government hands out money for, this should be one of them!
08:49am 01/05/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13838 posts
I'd love to see a back-to-basics series of sweeping reforms on Government spending at all levels. Just hack the budget (over a series of years I guess so the impact isn't brutal * cough Newman *).
08:55am 01/05/13 Permalink
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