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Kids Without Voices - QLD/Italian custody battle
Brisbane, Queensland
9557 posts
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03:53pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
6079 posts
Hope they get to stay. Dirty filthy italian!
03:54pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5856 posts
Sounds like the mother kidnapped them, filled their heads while they were young about their 'evil' father and has now turned them into fugatives.

Great job Mom!
03:59pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
6590 posts
Wait the lawyer didn't turn up? Shouldn't they then appoint another lawyer?
04:02pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5857 posts
Wrong type of Court Eorl.
04:04pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3612 posts
Wait the lawyer didn't turn up? Shouldn't they then appoint another lawyer?

yeah doesn't up
04:04pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3097 posts
That is certainly possible Scooter, but who knows. The courts have heard more than we will ever know about it though.
04:05pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Gold Coast, Queensland
4832 posts
Sounds like the mother kidnapped them, filled their heads while they were young about their 'evil' father and has now turned them into fugatives.

So in other words it's your typical Family Court story, but with an international twist.
04:12pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
7417 posts
Sounds like the mother kidnapped them, filled their heads while they were young about their 'evil' father and has now turned them into fugatives.

Great job Mum!


In addition, I believe the Family Court's order was merely that they return to Italy for an Italian court to determine where they should live. This is only proper as the kids did, at the time of the separation, live in Italy.
04:17pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
15130 posts
Sounds like the mother kidnapped them, filled their heads while they were young about their 'evil' father and has now turned them into fugatives.

Great job Mom!

the girls have stated their father used to physically abuse them too
04:18pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3100 posts
^Doesn't mean that he did though, I have full custody of my two daughters and that was the first trick she tried to pull.
04:21pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Gold Coast, Queensland
20655 posts
How is the legal system in Italy? I have heard stories about it being an absolute joke. I'll try and find one particular story I heard.

According to that report Italy pretty much sucks at justice, especially civil justice. If the father is abusive he might just be able to bribe his way to a verdict in his favor.
04:22pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
4119 posts
^Doesn't mean that he did though, I have full custody of my two daughters and that was the first trick she tried to pull.

that's f***en bulls*** mental, and being the Dad you would have been presumed to be guilty.

Glad my divorce didn't get like that, she's still a b****, but not on that level.
04:38pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
9765 posts
How is the legal system in Italy? I have heard stories about it being an absolute joke. I'll try and find one particular story I heard.

According to that report Italy pretty much sucks at justice, especially civil justice. If the father is abusive he might just be able to bribe his way to a verdict in his favor.

I might be Italian but f*** me nothing matters over there except for soccer and fast cars. I'd hate to be sick or embroiled in a legal matter in that country.
05:03pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
425 posts
F*** UN law. They are Australian citizens and if they don't want to go then that is their right.
06:48pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3102 posts
Wait until you have a new gf that looks to be serious and the kids meet her and tell their mum, claws out viper
08:04pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
8843 posts
He must have been a good enough dad to have 5 kids with.
Smells fishy.

08:10pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1128 posts
He must have been a good enough dad to have 5 kids with.
Smells fishy.
Shows how little you know. A thing called fear is quite easily enough to ensure such happens.

Came from exactly the same scenario and my father was, is and will always be an absolute violent a*******. Not every father is a good person and some need f*****' horsewhipping.
08:15pm 15/05/12 Permalink
1864 posts
There is way too much more to this story that we don't know about!

They'll get caught tonight no doubt.

Not hard to identify an older woman with 4 girls etc.
08:17pm 15/05/12 Permalink
1526 posts

Typical 'fact checking is so 1999' style media exaggerated issue.

10:21pm 15/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
7418 posts
F*** UN law. They are Australian citizens and if they don't want to go then that is their right.

07:03am 16/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
2063 posts
Must...resist..posting PS of the Brady Girls being scolded by Mario.
09:01am 16/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
4120 posts
Wait until you have a new gf that looks to be serious and the kids meet her and tell their mum, claws out viper

She had a new guy within a few months, so she couldn't really say much.
12:16pm 16/05/12 Permalink
Melbourne, Victoria
498 posts
So much for the Italian international extended family.
12:42pm 16/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3104 posts
Ahh ok, sweet, well not sweet, but could be worse.
02:10pm 16/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
6417 posts
All the girls look like the same age wtf?
03:27pm 16/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3126 posts
Just an update, they found the girls:

Police finally located the girls on Monday night, a week after they went into hiding to avoid being returned to Italy with their father.

and the high court will hear an urgent appeal

The High Court will hear an urgent appeal by four sisters fighting to stay in Australia with their mother.
01:52pm 22/05/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
22 posts
what a s*** situation to be in
01:55pm 04/06/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4542 posts
She had a new guy within a few months, so she couldn't really say much.
no, just that it would be hypocritical for her to do so, which isn't as much a game changer for females if my experience are any indication.
02:12pm 04/06/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
8909 posts

The mother, in her 30s, and father, in his 40s, began their relationship in 2001 before separating in 2009 after what the court described as an unhappy relationship.

The mother became convinced the father had sexually abused their daughter, a view she reached after her own mother had seen a clairvoyant who had predicted the abuse.

The mother was given sole custody because the court ruled she was the better parent.

How does a Lawyer front up a story like that to The Court ?

12:31pm 07/06/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
9718 posts
That is unrelated to this thread FaceMan, and requires a f*****g login to read.
12:37pm 07/06/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5903 posts
a view she reached after her own mother had seen a clairvoyant who had predicted the abuse.

Awesome. This is what we should use to determine all custody battles.
12:42pm 07/06/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5389 posts
Awesome. This is what we should use to determine all custody battles.

Less about determining who gets custody and more about giving another view point. Best thing to do is let the court work things out. What the father is doing is the right thing what the mother did was the wrong thing and all the excuses they have come up with are really strange.
12:48pm 07/06/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
520 posts
all the excuses they have come up with are really strange.

This buys time as any allegation of harm to children is Investigated seperately.
01:18pm 07/06/12 Permalink
Sydney, New South Wales
1 posts
Guys, note da facts:

1. The The Hague Convention Against International Child Abduction was set up to protect the children from wrongful abduction across international borders.
2. The Children are first Italians, 2nd Aussies, they were all born there and lived there until 2 years ago when they were kidnapped to Australia on the pretext of a Down Under holidays. They now have dual nationalities.
3. The The Hague Convention states that for all such abductions, the children must be returned to their habitual residence, which is Italy in this instance to be adjudicated by their local Family Court jurisdiction.
4. They are not forced to go back to Italy to live with their dad. Pure emotions on the part of the mother about them being handcuffed and sedated on the fight back.
5. The mother show contempt of Court by not presenting the children at the Brisbane Airpoert as ordered by the judge. The grandmother and great grannie also was in contempt of Court by hiding hte children, Would you support these women for breaking the law?
6. The mother alleged the father has mental illness that makes him physically violent and had been violent to the children, This might be true, yet who are we to judge, Let the Italian judiciary handle that allegation and trustingly make the right decision for the best interests of the girls.
7. It is obvious the girls had been poisoned by the mother and the mother's family to reject the father, They are still of tender ages, very easiy led by influential adults. "Kids without voices" is a load of craps, kids especially preteens must be guided by parents, teachers and other adults, they cannot determine their own future. Children simply, are not ready for their own voice in custodial situation, althought the older and more mature they are, the Court will hear them.
8. Why would a woman desperate to keep the children? In some instances, it is a desperate need for affirmation of their motherhood. Nevermind the law, some will disagree with the law as is the case with this mother...whether it is right or wrong, the children best raised by tthe mother. That means some will resort to false allegation of child sexual or physical abuse against the father to win the children into their fold. A few mothers are vindictive too, they will try all tricks in the book to deny child's access to the dad, even wiping him off any photographs etc.
8. In reverse, if an Aussie father married an Italian gal and she kidnapped the children back to Italy, would you fight for the children to be returned to Australia so that our own Family Court can determine the way forward? Of course you would!

I know these things, for I am one who has to go through this pain of an international children abduction situation. The problem with the Aussie Family Court system - they are overloaded There are not enough judges, clerks etc, They cannot deal with all the cases, lest alone the more complex international cases, so decisions take a long long time.

Now must get back to my game.
03:42pm 11/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5459 posts
You sound like a broken man angry at the female race for STEALING MY CHILDREN! THAT B**** WILL BURN IN HELL FOR WHAT SHE DID TO MY BABIES ONLY I KNOW BEST.

You've made some good points, but in the end by your own admission you are biased. Get out this is the internet.
04:06pm 11/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5772 posts
1) They're guilty of one crime, does not make them guilty of another.
2) My family is scottish, but i'll be f***ed i'm going to scotland if i got in trouble with the law. I'll be tried in australia, where i've lived my life. It's not a first come first serve policy.
3) repeating step 1
4) They don't live with their father, so therefore they'll live in a broken custodial agreement.
5) Contempt or not, a million other fit parents have done this in the past, or people who later became parents. Making a mistake doesn't remove your fitness for parenthood. Secondly, the father beats children and women. You can't have it both ways.
6) Who are we to judge? I've stepped in between a fight before and i'd do it again. It's societal values which persuade a majority from not going being bad, not laws.
7) That's not even a fact, that's just you talking words, heavily biased words
8) Your number 8 is difficult to read because of it's incoherency and crazy talk. I think the appropriate answer is there is no fact here, just speculation

The italian courts are some of the worst in 1st world countries. Their corruption is well known. They're famous for it.

Heaps of other ones there. Yes maybe italians have a right to say they want the trial in their country, but to be honest, they're australian too and we want justice for people. We don't want to turn them away, turn a blind eye like they're worth nothing. We're not like italians.
05:45pm 11/07/12 Permalink
Sydney, New South Wales
2 posts
Wow, steady on guys, I merely tried to add some balance to all this. So far we all felt sorry for the mother and chldren, that is true. Please see it from the perspective of the father, whether he is Italian or Greek or Chinese, it does not matter. Be balanced.

As to skythra, this is precisely the kind of emotions that does not help. Item 1 is an international UN sponsored convention and when a country signs it, they are bound by it. I am not saying they are guilty of any other crime, but certainly the mother did abduct the kids from the natural abode and certain members of her family contravened an Aussie Court Order. How would you like it if your Scottish missus abduct your kids to Scotland, would you rather have these Aussie kids back Down Under, adjudicated by an Aussie Family Court or remain in Scotland out of your reach?

Item 2 you got it all wrong - If you rob a bank in Perth, Scotland then you managed to runaway into Australia, will you be tried in Australia? Not likely. What will happened is that you will be extradited back to Scotland and a Scottish Criminal Court will deal with you. You cannot pick and choose your Court. This mother abducted the kids, born in Itay from Italy. The The Hague Convention only facilitates the rightful jurisdiction to handle the case, it won't be Australia because the crime did not take place in Australia.

Item 3, refer to my Item 1 explanation above.

Item 4, The parents had join-custody, consensual with sharing of the upbringing of the kids, him during the weekends and she on weekdays.She just unilaterally decided to spirit the children away into Australia. Get your fact right.

Item 5 It would be a fool to think that the mother and her family made a "mistake" as you call it. It was a deliberate act to prevent the Australian Court Orders from taking place. You seem to advocate it is okay to break the law, it is fine to demonstrate contempt of Court Orders.

Item 6. in a bitter custody situation it is not uncommon for one parent to accuse the other of violence, especially to the kids to sway the judge's decision in their favour. Here the accusor is the mother. I just mentioned it, without making further out of it. But you already made up your mind, the father is guilty as you see it, How biased!

Item 7, the girls had made comments about wanting to stay in Australia, However the judge noted that the youngest one felt home is Italy, and she wanted to go back to italy, that is until the mother and her family managed to silenced her. So by deduction it appears the girls are being influenced by the mother and her family. Would you not think so? If you are the mother, would you not try to influence your kids to say to the judge, "hey judge, I hate the father, I prefer to be with mum forever and live in Australia our new country." Come on skythra, you are not that gullible, are ya?

Item 8, came from several studies in UK and US on custodial disputes and the impact on the children. If you are interested I can share with you the references.

Finally, I mentioned indeed I've been there and done that, not to present a biased opinion, but to demonstrate that I have been exposed to these dramas and got to appreciate the legal, procedural and consequences. If you never experienced a bitter Court custody dispute, then I put to you Sir, you realy don't know what you are talking about...just hot air. The Italian court mght be corrupt,, but aye I have experienced corruption at the highest level in India, China, Indonesia and Vietnam...these countries corruption index eats Italy any day but as for the Italian Family Court, you would be speculating that all judges are corrupt there for there is no likely monetary gains in custody matters.

I discern you do have a chip on your shoulder against the Italian. That is too bad.
09:00am 12/07/12 Permalink
Melbourne, Victoria
7167 posts
The woman believes in clairvoyants as a reputable basis for making decisions about her children.
On that info alone you can deduce she is a s*** parent.
09:05am 12/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5975 posts
So far we all felt sorry for the mother

Read the thread again mate, we don't all feel sorry for the mother.
Nice Wall-o-text though. Someone else will probably be bored enough to read it.
09:16am 12/07/12 Permalink
Sydney, New South Wales
3 posts

So long as there is a positive debate with all sides presented, i feel I achieved my objective.

Themite mate, one more thing - by publishing a copy of the Courier Mail clipping showing the identity of the girls, it appears that you may be breaking the law. Herewith are the relevant excerpts:

Restriction on publication of court proceedings
(1) A person who publishes in a newspaper or periodical publication, by radio broadcast or television or by other electronic means, or otherwise disseminates to the public or to a section of the public by any means, any account of any proceedings, or of any part of any proceedings, under this Act that identifies:
(a) a party to the proceedings;
(b) a person who is related to, or associated with, a party to the proceedings or is, or is alleged to be, in any other way concerned in the matter to which the proceedings relate; or
(c) a witness in the proceedings;
is guilty of an offence punishable, upon conviction by imprisomnent for a period not exceeding one year.

Suggest strongly you remove that link or expect a call from the AG office, I read the judge already done so to prosecute the Courier Mail for contempt of Court.
01:28pm 13/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3013 posts
wow, feel the passion

there seems to be alot of other factors at play, however if the claims by the mother are true then good on her, it would be very hard to fight a custody battle with no support network, (and with 5 kids, I doubt she was working much over there, so little to no income as well)

schooner, I like how you say that the abuse is claimed, and we should wait to find out all the facts, yet go on to state that the mother had clearly poisoned the kids minds one sided much (or working on the fathers PR team?) while there may or may not be some truth bending from the kids (be that the mothers influence, or a protection of their mother, it merits some thought that there might have been something unwelcome going on there)

when I look at this, I wonder if the reaction would be different if this was an aussie woman who had gone to an arab country, then escaped with her kids in the middle of a custody battle?,

I remember loosely hearing that in most custody battles with parents of differing nationalities that the courts have overwhelming sided with the parent of Italian background, much like an most arab courts would side with the musilum born parent,

Taking that into account I think from her (the mother) point the only way to get a fair chance at keeping her kids (putting aside any abuse claims) would have been to escape to here, and then that would at best, mean the hearing would be here, or at worse put the spotlight on the case so that when it was heard in a court overthere that it might be a little fairer and take more factors into account that might have been overlooked had she gone thru the normal court process

also, schooner, chill, that image is now in the public domain it was on the front page of a news paper, and could be displayed in a number of places without any fear, the only one who would get into trouble would be the news paper,

also, that was published before the suppression order, media black-out or what ever you want to call it, there were a few unknowns at the time, but chill, for a three poster it is clear you have a little bit of a vested interest in this case
02:58pm 13/07/12 Permalink
2080 posts
7, the girls had made comments about wanting to stay in Australia, However the judge noted that the youngest one felt home is Italy, and she wanted to go back to italy, that is until the mother and her family managed to silenced her. So by deduction it appears the girls are being influenced by the mother and her family. Would you not think so? If you are the mother, would you not try to influence your kids to say to the judge, "hey judge, I hate the father, I prefer to be with mum forever and live in Australia our new country." Come on skythra, you are not that gullible, are ya?

So 1 out of the 4 girls says she wants to go back and the others say they want to stay in Australia, but apparently according to your beloved 'Hague Convention' the kids don't have to be sent back if they don't want to go, so what would you do, send one back?

Most of the s*** you are spouting is obviously just you pushing your own agenda from your own case onto a case you know barely anything about. You're assuming that the claims of abuse are bogus and that the children have been ruthlessly brainwashed from a few flaky stories about what might have happened so far, and then stating it like it's fact and that if anyone believes differently then they're just gullible.

You couldn't be any more biased if you tried.
04:39pm 13/07/12 Permalink
Sydney, New South Wales
4 posts
Wow this is better than IRCs! Copius, ta for the tips. Scooter you are correct, not everybody are rooting for the mum, yet when they do there are much emotions abound!

Kos, chill man, keep the personal attack out, tis like a game, we play we learn. Come on, I got nothing to gain by contributing, If you wanna contribute, show us ur stuff, make it sensible rather than pure emotion and personal. Keep the debate alive and balanced, everyone got a viewpoint and that's cool.

Kos bro, I didn't say the girls can decide where they can go, a judge will do that. According to the The Hague Convention, it has to be the Court of the original place of residence prior to the abduction, and that exactly was the ruling of the full bench of the Family Court in this instance. I did say however, they have to return to Italy not necessarily forced to be living with the father. The judge again, will determine that. Who knows, he might adjudicate that indeed he's mental and best for the kids to stay Down Under with the mum and her extended family support.

Kids on custody matters do not have much of a voice based on current Family Law, however the older the child is, the judge has discretionary power to consider their perspective. But ordinarily children are not invited into the Court room because of the distressing nature of custody proceedings and the emotional damage can be inflicted on them by a rouge, vindictive parent.

Australian Family Law is streets ahead here to protect the child. We are one of only a few countries that have adopted special Children Lawyers. Yes the judge might Orders that the child's right be further protected by appointing a Children Lawyer to represents their best interests. These are legal professionals who had been trained in child psychology often drawn from veteran family law solicitors. It is so obvious that had the case be judged in an Aussie Court, most likely the girls will have independent Children Lawyer each to shield them from either parent's pressure...and for the past 2 years while the kids lived in Aussieland, it is obvious the mum and her family had the opportunity to exert the most influence.

Finally, call me old fashioned, but I thought a person is innocent unless proven otherwise...well that is what I thought our law was founded upon. I pity those crappy people who already made a judgement on the father just based on allegation by the mother. Do not despise him just because he is the father to begin with. Not all fathers are abusive, neglectful parents.

However when it comes to overtly influencing the children by the mother and her family, I sincerely did not based that conclusion on any allegation. It was after piecing together the chronological dynamics of what happened to the children and the public statements they released wrt their father. Admittedly this is just my viewpoint and you can make your own conclusion, I will surely respect that too.

Even the judge noticed at least about one fo the gals, he said "What frightens me is this girl, probably because of what they have been subjected to by whomever, may do something stupid just to gain attention to themselves and that frightens the life out of me."

A child do not automatically hate or fear a parent unless one of two things happened - (a) there were truly a history of abuses including sexual or (b) they have been brainwashed by the rival parent to alienate the other parent (again this is based on empirical studies on "parental alienation" do suss it out on da Net). Since we cannot establish indeed that the father had abused the children for now only conclusion must be a systematic intent to alienate the girls from their father and the guess who?

Oh and Kos, I have no agenda save for to facilitate public awareness of international abduction is real and happens a lot. I do not know any of the parties involved, nothing to gain for any of them nor to me. Neither have I pushed anything about my personal case as you acused, have I actually shared my gory details? I couldn't and wouldn't anyway for that might contravene Family Law. Save your insult on your FPS sessions. But I can share my knoweldge, my experience...

Finally, if any of you are truly fair dinkum Aussies, hear you all then dad's viewpoint too as he expressed to SBS Radio, suss this
01:35pm 15/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5799 posts
I forgot to come back to this thread, but it is now a wall of text of just pure speculation and emotion.

Can't even be bothered to read it.

PS: I have nothing against italy, that's you just coming up with things that make you feel like you can discredit my words because of bias, i have a chip on my shoulder against you. You who ignores any other point which you don't like to admit. Who will argue ignoring any other side and will continue to revive a dead thread well after everyone stopped caring.
02:52pm 15/07/12 Permalink
2100 posts
Schooner, I also cannot be bothered to read all that s*** because I already know that you are a completely biased and manipulative person. I'm not saying that you don't have some valid points, but the way that you present yourself and talk to other people just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

The last line of your post says it all really:
Finally, if any of you are truly fair dinkum Aussies...

So what, if we don't do what you say then we can't truly call ourselves real Australians? Oh wow, what a puppet-master with our emotions you are!
07:07pm 31/07/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3429 posts
Fairfax Media reports the man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, flew out of Australia on Friday morning.

He has reportedly told supporters he's "had enough" and is returning to Italy.
03:12pm 19/08/12 Permalink
Geelong, Victoria
1 posts
Bloody hell, I dont know whether to say I hope God isn't listening to most of you people, or pray to God that he is! The ignorance I came across here is just astounding but the disgusting attitudes and behaviour I see is pretty sickening. It just so happens that I've been involved with this family for nearly 2 decades. I've watched these children's grandmother endlessly and tirelessly devote herself, at cost to her health, attempt to try to help and support these kids. Having had some contact with this joker who calls himself a father, years ago, I had reason even then to have a go at him about his treatment of his wife and kids. It was disgusting, he had a pregnant wife go off to chop firewood then haul it up a couple of a couple of flights of stairs. He treated this beautiful, gentle, gorgeous and loving woman like she was a piece of crap. As a bloke, it made me bloody angry. I always found it a bit of a worry that the kids didnt ever really go near him and they were sometimes a bit withdrawn. This was at a time when his violent behaviour had just started to become a problem. Buggered if I know how these kids mother for another 2 or 3 years beyond what I witnessed. At the time I didnt say anything much, not really sure if it was my place but it was clear his wife was siply being polite and apologetic for him. Since that day to this i've listened to their grandmother try to help these kids understand that their dad didnt mean to treat them the way he did, when he constantly reduced them to tears because of his really nasty abuse of them. I've heard their mother do the same thing, constantly apologising and trying to make kind excuses for his behaviour whenever he upset them. You have no idea how common it was that they both had to do that for the kids. The poor bloody kids are forever saying, he doesnt really want us does he or he never really wanted us. This joker screams abuse in their faces and tells them their f***ed in the head! S*** man, what kind of a bloke does that sort of thing anyway? You have to be sick in the head and everyone gets that this blokes mental issues came out of the worst thing that can happen to anyone, when one of his girls died but what the hell kind of excuse is that? After their mum had to leave ,their home to protect herself an the kids, the son of ***** refused to even pay them the government child endowment payments, he didnt give them a damn cent. He left them with nothing, in winter he left them to freeze in sub zero temperatures and just didnt give a damn. The biggest problem seemed to be that the mum had turned her back on their religion, which is a secret sect of the catholic church, onew of those manipulative ones that teach you actively not to think for yourself but to allow the sect to make your decisions. they wouldnt even let their mother go to the local catholic church, which the sect also haunts - in addition to their secret masses. the whole thing just turned into a nightmare and not one you'd want anyone you knew to have to be a part of. i ended up spending 3 years, with a group of mates and other musicians, playing gigs and doing whatever we had to so their grandmother would be able to send the money to their mum to feed and clothe them. euro was costing about double the aussie dollar then and it was a damn hard slog i can tell you. I'm buggared if i know how this stinking mess became the shameful thing it is but as a bloke i can tell you other blokes, however cheesed off you are about whatever you had to go through with some woman, this time you've been led so far up the garden path, you changed time zones! This poor mother is one of the most amazing people you'll ever meet, she's sweet and sincere, she's one of the few people I've ever known who truly were a christian at heart. She's gentle, talented and funny and i can tell you she's also one amazing mother. every time i have ever been at her house, when the kids were going to bed, even during dinner parties, she excuses herself for about half an hour and theres no sight or sound of her for maybe half an hour. You sit there sometimes wondering, is she gonna come back or what, do we just sit here and talk, is everything ok? Eventually. she does reappear and turns out she was doing what she always does when they go to bed and spends a little bit of time with each one of them on their own to have those mother talks about their day and make sure things were all ok then she says a blessing with them. Over years and years and years i witnessed her doing this with her kids. i always thought it was sad that the father never seemed all that interested but then i've also seen personally and witnessed the effect this guy has on his kids when he communicates with them in any way and it'd just trash any bloke inside to see the kids. It's just wrong and this guy is about as wrong as he could ever be. I dont know if it's been him that mislead all you blokes and yea I know there are also women out there who've been mislead, or whether its this PI Chapman bloke but he's a pretty dirty piece of work. I know a couple of people who've had to put up with the joker and since I noticed him sticking his dirty beak in this court business I've heard a lot more and to date, not a single person who doesnt actively warn you against him and use words like low life, liar, filthy snake. The bloke doesnt exactly have a fan club and if he does, man .. he's obviously got some poor blokes that felt kicked around and played on their emotions. I noticed last night he's now threatening to put out a lot of filth on a facebook page with the stated intention of making sure the kids see it! No joke, he wants to make sure he hurts 4 kids. He needs to be kicked, booted or dragged screaming right out of this couples business and locked up where he belongs.we all kinwo there are jokers out there you just dont wanna get involved with but they get you when they're not looking and seems to me thats exactly the way this bloke works. These kids want to love their dad, they've also wanted to and they've always wanted to have a relationship with him but smashing your kids faces into the table aint the way to do it. Their poor mum has tried so hard and for so long to encourage him to try. i was with their grandmother one day when she got a call from her daughter asking what she should say to him because she was going to try and arrange a meeting with him (this was when he first arrived) because she didnt believe he would really hurt the girls so much by doing this. Between those in the know and I have to tell you that includes the government, this guy gave her permission alright, everyone had bloody kittens when he said he was coming out here too. Hell!. It was a bit of luck that he changed his mind about that, next thing all he's doing is ignoring them all, keeping that child endowment money, still and telling the girls he'd come visit them soon and with the next breath he'd just bloody abuse them. About 7 months after she'd left and the girls and their mum were doing great, they get the Hague paperwork. no one could work that out and started sayingyeah but he gave permission so how can he raise a Hague accusation? Tell me this, if he was so damned concerned that they didnt come back in July, why did it take until, what was it Feburary the next year before he does anything? Then everyone got excited a month or so alter when he rang and emailed their mum saying sorry i did the wrong thing and i want to stop this, no idea if that was some con to get her off guard or he was just making up cra again. This guy goes up and down like a bloody yoyo. Ive never actually decked another bloke in my life and you wouldnt ordinarily be able to get me mad enough to but this bloke, I'd like to take him out the back and show him what its like to be beaten the way he beat his gorgeous wife. Critising her, bad mouthing her and taking shots at her is about as low as you could go and you'd be as wrong as you could be. The guy needs to wake up to himself, tell this Chapman to buggar off and mind his own business or deck the son of a ***** and start taking a bit of time and care with his kids because theyre amazing and he's only making them ashamed of him and his family for doing the things they are. This Chapman bloke sure isnt doing the guy any favours sticking his ugly beak in either, he just making the guy look like a crap father and a crap human being. Ive sat on the sidelines and Ive kept my mouth shut and Ive busted a cap for HIS kids for nearly 5 years now but one way or another, he needs to be shown up for who he really is. The most popular term that comes to mind is 'dead beat dad' and this bloke fits the bill to a T. Slam me if you want but those are the facts a bystander has witnessed and they are facts and they're not dirtied up or prettied up for anyones sake. These kids are amazing, incredible, talented kids who lived in a nasty environment, a scarey environment and a threatened environment, that their father just kept creating. Mates and i would just shake our heads when we heard the kids had gone to see him for the weekend again and he wasnt there and when he did ever show up one of the kids was hurt again. It just never ended, there just didnt seem to ever be ay kind of break in this disgusting behaviour of his. We'd find the grandmother on skype or the phone again trying to calm her daughters or granddaughters tears because he did it again. If any one of you people who throw crap at this woman had witnessed 5 minutes of this guys real behaviour with his wife or kids, you'd want to deck the bastard. Wake up and smell the coffee people, like I said, so far up the garden path, you've changed time zones.
05:04am 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3436 posts
Bloody hell, I dont know whether to say I hope God isn't listening to most of you people, or pray to God that he is!

I just re-read the thread, there isn't a whole lot that could be offensive, certainly not 'most of us'.

You're angry that people who don't know her/him and their children personally, and don't have a whole backstory are forming loose opinions based only on what has been reported?
07:21am 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
5999 posts
We're lucky that God doesn't exist though. Otherwise we might be in trouble.
07:24am 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
34147 posts
if this guy was such a jerk, why did this woman marry him and have all these kids to him?
07:50am 22/08/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4580 posts
Wow, thats a real wall of text, haven't seen a specimen like that for years...

I'm going to dive in and decode some of it to see what it says.

Alright, from what I've decrypted, he is saying : I don't like the father, there for the kids shouldn't have to submit to international law and deal with the issue over in Italy.

There was mention of God too, but it wasn't really contextually based, more as a assertion of superiority.

was I close Bluesman?
07:54am 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
7562 posts
Is he gonna post the porns of his wife on fb?
07:59am 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
7456 posts
epic first post.
08:14am 22/08/12 Permalink
Melbourne, Victoria
13619 posts
Wow, thats a real wall of text, haven't seen a specimen like that for years...

I'm going to dive in and decode some of it to see what it says.

Hahaha, damn.

That is the definition of 'wall of text'. It's like he just never picked up what a 'paragraph' is and why it is used. I wonder if it's a diagnosable condition in DSM IV.
04:58pm 22/08/12 Permalink
2151 posts
The fact that the first line doesn't even really seem to apply to this thread and that there were absolutely no line breaks makes me just think that he just copy+pasted.

It definitely wins the award for post that I'm least likely to ever read on these forums, not a bad accomplishment considering how many posts I've seen in the last few years.

It's certainly created a nice balance though, that we could have long sprawling maniacal rants from both sides of the argument.
08:04pm 22/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
11108 posts
oh wow, somebody get John Nash to decode that crazy post!
10:38am 23/08/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
9585 posts
You guys have got to see the Woman and her family on 60 Minutes.

I feel sorry for the husband that he wasnt able to spot Trailer Trash.
The Father seems like a normal honest guy.

The apple never falls far from the tree, her Grandmother is a psycho.
08:57pm 25/11/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
17524 posts
man that is one of the most impressive walls of text i think i've ever seen on here

and the stupidity in the first couple of sentences hurt my brain, i only pray that no one subjects themselves to reading the whole lot
09:52pm 25/11/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
3632 posts
Well bluesman, I see your wall and raise you this!! Ha ha.....foiled you!

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PS. Did he/she say anything relevant I should have read?
10:03pm 25/11/12 Permalink
Brisbane, Queensland
7593 posts
what a f*****g train wreck of a family right there
10:15pm 25/11/12 Permalink
10:15pm 25/11/12 Permalink
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