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Ford to keep the Inline Six
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3911 posts
In triumpantly good news today, Ford Motor Company Australia has decided to prolong the life of the mightily reliable Inline-Six Motor:

Ford Australia has shelved plans to replace the Falcon's ageing in-line six-cylinder engine with an imported V6 in 2010, guaranteeing the jobs of 400 workers at its Geelong engine plant until at least 2013. The plant was scheduled to close in 2010, but Ford has instead opted to upgrade the existing engine to Euro IV emissions standards, extending the lifespan of the decades-old engine.
Victorian Premier John Brumby called the Ford decision "an extraordinarily positive announcement".


Taken from Drive.com.au

Taxi operators and Falcon lovers all over Australia are saved from the horrendous Duratec V6 as featured in the Mazda CX-9.
01:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
system
Internet
--
01:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
23430 posts
as long as theres a turbo attached to it, its ok:
02:32pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3913 posts
Yeah true. You can pick up XR6T's for around the 15K mark now, i'm uber tempted to get one...
02:40pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
23432 posts
wouldnt want to be a series1
02:45pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
500 posts
Taxi operators and Falcon lovers all over Australia are saved from the horrendous Duratec V6 as featured in the Mazda CX-9.

I found that amusing considering Mazda is the only thing making money for Ford at the moment. I drive a CX9 at work, nice car but no way would I buy one.
02:46pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3918 posts
Oh, there's nothing wrong with Mazda, but the American 3.7L duratec V6, whilst having pretty good power and torque figures, is an oversquare (short-stroke) motor which does not lead to the traditional falcon trait of low-rpm torque. It is largely unproven in Australian conditions (let alone on LPG) and would be a step backwards in almost all areas for taxi use.
02:51pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
501 posts
Oh, there's nothing wrong with Mazda, but the American 3.7L duratec V6, whilst having pretty good power and torque figures, is an oversquare (short-stroke) motor which does not lead to the traditional falcon trait of low-rpm torque. It is largely unproven in Australian conditions (let alone on LPG) and would be a step backwards in almost all areas for taxi use.


I wasn't thinking you were saying there was anything wrong with Mazda. I work for Mazda and the CX7 is a much better car. Fords sales are dropping everyday in this country and I hope it doesn't get any worse. I have no choice but to think happy thoughts otherwise I may have to get a job where they expect me to work. And I can't have that.
02:55pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
23435 posts
thats a shame, because ford australia are making some genuinely exciting vehicles at the moment
02:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3919 posts
I understand. Can you tell me more on how the CX9 is to drive? In terms of power delivery at low rpm? To clarify, when you take off from the lights and want to stay infront of everyone (except for crazy turbos), what is the peak RPM experienced in 1st or 2nd gear?
03:00pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
502 posts
thats a shame, because ford australia are making some genuinely exciting vehicles at the moment

The problem is they didn't take into account what most people want these days. People want small fuel efficient cars but Ford seem to have dropped the ball. Ford from what I last was told are selling Mazda, whoever gets it will make a killing. I think the Mazda3 outsold the Falcon for the first time ever a few months back.
03:01pm 20/11/08 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
5718 posts
Ford need to hurry up and start building the focus in Australia. Thats like the best idea I've ever heard.
03:04pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
503 posts
Ford need to hurry up and start building the focus in Australia. Thats like the best idea I've ever heard.

As long as they make the boot less s*** to look at and the XR5 not so under powered.
03:08pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8839 posts
I understand. Can you tell me more on how the CX9 is to drive? In terms of power delivery at low rpm? To clarify, when you take off from the lights and want to stay infront of everyone (except for crazy turbos), what is the peak RPM experienced in 1st or 2nd gear?


lol

your AU must be the fastest AU ever built

last edited by paveway at 15:11:19 20/Nov/08
03:10pm 20/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4311 posts
I think the Focus is the best looking small car.

We nearly bought one a few years ago and it was really nice to drive, very tight, unlike paveway's mum.
03:11pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
504 posts
I understand. Can you tell me more on how the CX9 is to drive? In terms of power delivery at low rpm? To clarify, when you take off from the lights and want to stay infront of everyone (except for crazy turbos), what is the peak RPM experienced in 1st or 2nd gear?


They respond pretty well at low rev's. Flatten your foot to the floor and it will scream and generally do f*** all really. Take a CX7 out and do it and it responds much better. The CX9 feels really floaty, I don't like the engine that much and it is way to big. The 9 is just way to big for the engine and is only meant to cruise.
03:15pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8840 posts
so the cx-9 has a 3.7 litre v6 and the cx-7 has the 2.3 litre turbo 4 ?
03:29pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3921 posts
thats as i understand it
and no pave, i've driven much faster AUs than mine. mine is for economy not speed.
03:33pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
505 posts
so the cx-9 has a 3.7 litre v6 and the cx-7 has the 2.3 litre turbo 4 ?

The CX7 has the same engine that is in the MPS but tuned for lower rev's. The 9 is just a big fuel guzzling machine. That been said the 9 drives well on the highway. But f***ed if I would want to pay the fuel bill. I think it is supposed to be 10 per every 100, using the info meter I got it up 56 per 100 :) Only for a short time though.
03:37pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8820 posts
reliability is cool but otherwise this is just gay news. ford and holden already produce essentially uninnovative and yawnworthy technology - clinging to an already old inline 6 makes baby jesus cry

also, these engines only have good torque compared to other crappy engines
03:40pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8841 posts
yeah my missus has a mazda 3 mps

would be alot more fun to drive than a boring 3.7l v6

just needs to have whatever the f*** it is that stops the wastegate from closing through first and second gear

everything jim said, though i do have a soft spot for straight 6's
03:40pm 20/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4313 posts
uninnovative and yawnworthy


Just what their target market wants.

They don't care for cams, valves and rods, they just want a big aussie six with a big seat to haul their overweight arse.
03:45pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
506 posts
ust needs to have whatever the f*** it is that stops the wastegate from closing through first and second gear

I own one myself and the problem is they limit the turbo in 1st and 2nd. It has 13 pounds in first and second and then 19 after that. Mod chips will unlock it but I reckon a bigger turbo with lower boost would be better. They are a very quick little car and will beat the RX8 any day.
03:48pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3925 posts
precisely mission. it's all about what the buyer demands, not what's the latest and greatest unproven technology.

show me another motor in a sedan that'll run LPG and do over a million kilometres unopened, and i might start taking notice.
03:49pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8821 posts
everything jim said, though i do have a soft spot for straight 6's
me too, especially bmw's 3 litre twin turbo petrol and diesel I6's

they are pretty much the complete opposite of this ford engine in terms of innovation, technology, performance, fuel consumption and emissions
03:51pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8842 posts
^lol (at mr hardware)

13 pound in first you reckon?

it feels like there is no boost at all in first and a tiny bit in second and then it's balls out in third and onward

the rx8 is the biggest yawnbarge ever

yeah jim my sraight 6 has had dohc since the 80's, ford only managed it early this century lolol

last edited by paveway at 15:56:57 20/Nov/08
03:52pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
507 posts
13 pound in first you reckon? it feels like there is no boost at all in first and a tiny bit in second and then it's balls out in third and onward

Yep, done that way on purpose. Talk steer is bad enough in it let alone having full boost starting off. The MPS extreme is coming out soon and I want that bad. 210 KW front wheel drive equals me dying an early death.
03:55pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3927 posts
perhaps its torque steer
03:57pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8843 posts
yeah forget this fwd crap

missus reckons she's going upgrade to a mps 6 in a couple of years, it's awd but crappy awd. but still awd none the less

i dunno why they don't just make it f*****g rwd?
03:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3929 posts
i don't know why they don't make everything rwd.
04:01pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8822 posts
precisely mission. it's all about what the buyer demands, not what's the latest and greatest unproven technology.
yeh the typical australian buyer doesn't know any better cos they keep getting fed this crap from local manufacturers, protected by the govt under the ever-noble guise of 'local industry' by import and luxury car tax

show me another motor in a sedan that'll run LPG and do over a million kilometres unopened, and i might start taking notice.
heh wave down a thousand typical I6 falcon owners and tell me the % of them who saw more than 200,000k's without opening it up. wow, ford service centres just have a chick at the desk and no actual workshop!
04:03pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
508 posts
perhaps its torque steer


LOL it's also known as that in certain circles. Torque steer is fun once you get used to it. I have had some close calls where I thought I was off to meet my maker. Gets the heart racing and that can only be a good thing.
04:04pm 20/11/08 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
4298 posts
because fwd is much safer for noobs and retards
04:04pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3931 posts
most taxis on the road with more than half a million kays have never had the head taken off jim.
04:05pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8844 posts
lol at unproven technology comment

that s*** makes me laugh

thats why we have holden making 7 litre V8's and retarded s*** like that because bevans like mr hardware want their pushrods and cubes

while BMW and mercedes are making v8's with the same or more power from half the displacement
04:06pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3932 posts
yep, they sure are. But do they sell them in a car that's worth $20k or less at two or three years old? nope. And thats why aussies will continue to buy aussie cars.
04:08pm 20/11/08 Permalink
tequila
Brisbane, Queensland
320 posts

just needs to have whatever the f*** it is that stops the wastegate from closing through first and second gear


See quote


Sophisticated Torque Management
Mazda 3 MPS employs a number of sophisticated features to ensure the prodigious power and torque gets to the road with the minimum of fuss.

Usually, a car’s transmission will convey engine torque vibration to the steering wheel under hard acceleration or when taking a curve with a large steering angle. To either completely eliminate or drastically reduce this so-called “torque steering,” Mazda engineers gave the car’s drive shafts the same stiffness.

In addition, torque steering under full load in first and second gears is electronically controlled – by modifying the throttle valve position and employing boost pressure control via the wastegate of the turbocharger. This ensures that engine torque is applied smoothly, rather than suddenly, and that torque increases only to a certain level. In addition, when using first or second gears in very tight corners when large steering inputs are required (detected by a steering angle sensor) the system will again control the throttle valve, limiting excessive torque delivery.

To inhibit front wheel spin during heavy acceleration in first gear, engineers inhibited an extreme power surge via the throttle valves and the waste-gate valve of the turbocharger.
04:20pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3935 posts
this is similar to the awful, infuriating torque control employed on the Alloytec Commodores
04:23pm 20/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
509 posts
this is similar to the awful, infuriating torque control employed on the Alloytec Commodores

Dude but it is so much fun to drive a car that does it though. Maybe I am weird but to me it is a big selling point, the car demands you pay it attention at all times.
04:29pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8845 posts
to it's credit, i've taken it up tambourine mountain and it handled it really well, i didn't feel like i was about to drive off or into a cliff at any stage

just aslong as you don't go back to second, it was fun
04:32pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8823 posts
most taxis on the road with more than half a million kays have never had the head taken off jim.
even if that were true, so what? also, it's largely irrelevant to the general market because they won't be used the same way.

yep, they sure are. But do they sell them in a car that's worth $20k or less at two or three years old? nope. And thats why aussies will continue to buy aussie cars.
heh
do you think ford australia invented the engine? fuel injection? forced induction? overhead cam? what about abs? traction control? electronic brake force distribution? anti-roll? airbags? yet all or most of these are now common in cars the 'average aussie' market. this is because the innovators invent it, pioneer it's development and reliability and it trickles down to other car manufacturers over the coming years and becomes standard and reliable, depending on the implementation. so yes, what you're seeing from bmw now, will be bastardised in falcons down the track for your $20k magic number.

ford is resisting this process which is the cause of my original response

05:28pm 20/11/08 Permalink
tequila
Brisbane, Queensland
324 posts
so is Holden though

seriously, push rods are so last millennium
Toyota hasn't used push rods for 20+ years AFAIK, I base this assumption mostly on the 1UZ era v8's

Nissan also, to the best of my knowledge don't use push rods etc

It seems the japs and Europeans have their s*** together and we continue to suffer under an American thumb
05:34pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8825 posts
yeah that's pretty much how I see it too

05:44pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Ross
Brisbane, Queensland
1856 posts
We don't have the population for R&D
05:46pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3938 posts
Ford does not have a pushrod motor, and the Inline six in question has had an Overhead Cam (or two) for 20 years.

Ross is right, there just isn't enough vehicles sold for R&D budgets to be ahead of the market in terms of innovation. I don't think 'we suffer' american technology (or lack there of), i don't see anyone forcing you into a pushrod-equipped car.

Anyway, the world's fastest four door sedan is a pushrod-equipped american machine...
05:59pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8828 posts
wait, we've hit some arbitrary limit which now prevents ford from leeching available technology from the market?

Anyway, the world's fastest four door sedan is a pushrod-equipped american machine...
*boggle*
just boggle
06:06pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Ross
Brisbane, Queensland
1857 posts
What's a pushrod?
06:10pm 20/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3940 posts
Jim, its all about cost vs benefit vs demand. Aussie cars sell well for a reason, because they are good value for money, not because they leech other's technology and jam it in.

Also, Cadillac CTS. See Top Gear S12E02.
06:14pm 20/11/08 Permalink
whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
13091 posts
I understand. Can you tell me more on how the CX9 is to drive? In terms of power delivery at low rpm? To clarify, when you take off from the lights and want to stay infront of everyone (except for crazy turbos), what is the peak RPM experienced in 1st or 2nd gear?

Wouldn't that just depend on what gear you put it in? Put it in 1st and watch the revs go up? I'd be more interested in rpm vs km/h than just rpm. My car gets to 7500rpm pretty fast in 1st gear but it just screams its ass off and doesn't really get anywhere.
06:50pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Crizane Tribal
Brisbane, Queensland
2375 posts
I can kinda understand the comfort people find in the good ol' inline V6's. I like being able to pop the hood and know what all the parts underneath do. It's kinda comforting to be able to see and understand the layout of the engine in your car. Looking at engines in little Jap cars confuses the s*** out of me.
06:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
14987 posts
I understand. Can you tell me more on how the CX9 is to drive? In terms of power delivery at low rpm? To clarify, when you take off from the lights and want to stay infront of everyone (except for crazy turbos), what is the peak RPM experienced in 1st or 2nd gear?


even without your lpg evangelism, its comments like this that make me think you're retarded.
07:58pm 20/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4318 posts
I can kinda understand the comfort people find in the good ol' inline V6's


Looking at engines in little Jap cars confuses the s*** out of me.


And looking at an inline v6 doesn't?
08:50pm 20/11/08 Permalink
tequila
Brisbane, Queensland
325 posts
lol @ inline v6

Ross is right, there just isn't enough vehicles sold for R&D budgets to be ahead of the market in terms of innovation. I don't think 'we suffer' american technology (or lack there of), i don't see anyone forcing you into a pushrod-equipped car.


we dont get r&d period.

we get american s***
08:55pm 20/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8851 posts
Nissan also, to the best of my knowledge don't use push rods etc


vh series of engines from the 80's are dohc

i want an inline v6

last edited by paveway at 21:16:16 20/Nov/08
09:10pm 20/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
14994 posts
vh isn't pushrod, also

some euroboxes have what they call in-line v6s.

instead of a 60degrees, they are like 10-15 degrees. so its short like a v6, and has a single head like an in-line.
09:35pm 20/11/08 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
7821 posts
people whaaaaaa about pushrods but overhead cam tech is just as old anyway.
10:03pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Crizane Tribal
Brisbane, Queensland
2376 posts
And looking at an inline v6 doesn't?

Ah yeah, if you read the part of my post that you DIDN'T quote, I mentioned that I know what's going on in an inline v6. Hope that clears things up for you.

All the best,

CT
XOXO
10:39pm 20/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8830 posts
Jim, its all about cost vs benefit vs demand. Aussie cars sell well for a reason, because they are good value for money, not because they leech other's technology and jam it in.
it's not all about cost vs demand

aussie cars sell well? what do you mean by aussie car - holden and ford irrespective of who owns them and where they source their components from, or all locally-manufactured cars?

- if the former... toyota have nearly much market share here as holden and ford combined (~22% vs the ~24% of holden + ford). the rest is also japanese.

- if the latter... well duh

and yes, leeching technology is _exactly_ what they do. not that there's anything wrong with that imo, if you recall the original discussion


Also, Cadillac CTS. See Top Gear S12E02.
dude
I was boggling that you said that in this context - not about the car itself



Ah yeah, if you read the part of my post that you DIDN'T quote, I mentioned that I know what's going on in an inline v6. Hope that clears things up for you.
you don't get it
01:23am 21/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8832 posts
actually year-to-date figures are showing toyota now have more market share than holden and ford combined, I was quoting 2007 figures
01:28am 21/11/08 Permalink
Le Infidel
Netherlands
2501 posts
the m5 held the fastest 4 door title for a few years, im sure another one will top the cts with all the other exotic manufacturers thinking about making four doors
01:47am 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
14996 posts
the new porsche maybe?
08:21am 21/11/08 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
3817 posts
If Ford lost its Gov/Commercial Fleet Sales and had a reduction in cabs(seeing alot more Camry Cabs nowerdays) I reckon they'd shut the plant instantly.

I dont know anyone who actually goes out and buys a stock standard Ford Falcon as a personal purchase. They either go and buy a XR6 or they buy a Jap car.

The question is whether GM will survive another 12 months (yes its that bad) and if it doesnt what will happen to Holden?
11:54am 21/11/08 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
7823 posts
I dont know anyone who actually goes out and buys a stock standard Ford Falcon as a personal purchase


Of course not, that would be absolute madness. The hit you'd take in depreciation would be phenomenal.
11:57am 21/11/08 Permalink
DirtyApe
Brisbane, Queensland
511 posts
The question is whether GM will survive another 12 months (yes its that bad) and if it doesnt what will happen to Holden?

It's not just new car sales people should be concerned about. Parts and servicing would rise as well. I work in the industry and I know first hand what they get up to. If only people actually knew what goes on behind the scenes.
12:54pm 21/11/08 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
529 posts
There are currently plenty of opportunities for these companies to get into new markets.
Look at Toyota and the success it had with the hybrid car, or what Honda is doing with robots. There are a lot of new things they can put their skills to. They just have to pull their finger out and get on with it...
01:07pm 21/11/08 Permalink
tequila
Brisbane, Queensland
330 posts
I loved the US congress questioning when Ford/GM etc asked for a multi-billion dollar bailout

"Let me ask you, will anyone here be selling their private jet and taking a commercial flight home? raise your hand."

"Let the record show that no one raised their hand."

take that wankers

if they had any clue or if the govt imposed some kind of penalty for these idiots f*****g up, ie a % or total govt. control after a bailout, these companies would make MUCH more savvy business decisions

Suck s*** to ford and GM for suffering, they're still pumping out gas guzzlers even years after petrol prices have skyrocketed and at a time when our economy is for-s***

They don't think Americans will buy little 'weak' 2L 4cyl motors?
That's why they're f***ed, because Americans did go out and buy them, from mazda/honda/nissan/toyota etc

I just bought a new hilux and I got the turbo diesel because it has s*** hot fuel economy, my other choice was a new maloo ute which did 18.5L/100K (thats what the sticker said, so its probably more in the real world)

The guy goes to me 'oh yeah but that doesn't matter, its so fast'
I'm like yeah but who wants to be the fastest person to get to the bowser?

He even used some stupid line like 'do you have a girlfriend? cause if you don't yet, you will when you get this'
sleazeball car salesmen srsly
01:12pm 21/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4331 posts
lol

There was a d*** on ocau (ok one of many) that posted a thread asking which car he should get so he can pick-up chicks. That was his main criteria.
01:15pm 21/11/08 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
3821 posts
its not just the fuel economy that made evryone start buying Jap and Euro cars, its the build quality. American build quality is laughable.

Japanese cars are better built, better looking and usually the same price or cheaper.

I'd buy a Korean Car over an American Car any day.
01:53pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3950 posts
you're absolutely right orbitor. Ford realises this and markets their cars accordingly: The XT is the fleet special ($36K) and has steel wheels etc. It will be ordered by fleets, disposed of en masse at two or three years old, flooding the market of base models that no-one but taxi operators want. Said taxi operators buy in a 3 year old car with less than 100k on the clock for $13grand. The G6, however, ($39K, futura/fairmont replacement) is only $3k more and has so much more to offer, it'll be the private buyer special. What you get for your $39k is the same as what you'd get on a $100k merc/bmw only 5 or 10 years ago. Damn good value for money.
02:30pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8840 posts
What you get for your $39k is the same as what you'd get on a $100k merc/bmw only 5 or 10 years ago.
the same only different
02:37pm 21/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4335 posts
Since when to cab companies buy second hand?

Not that I'd know, but any cab I've been in is the cab special with vinyl seats, no carpet etc.

I thought that's how they came from the factory or do they do that after they buy them?
02:43pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3954 posts
pretty much
02:43pm 21/11/08 Permalink
tequila
Brisbane, Queensland
331 posts
sifn't silver service anyway

that's how I roll
02:47pm 21/11/08 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
8862 posts
Of course not, that would be absolute madness. The hit you'd take in depreciation would be phenomenal.


f*** oath

i noticed a BA falcon at a used car dealer place on gympie road the other day, looks in good condition etc, no idea exactly what year but it can't be more than 5 or 6 years old? it looked like a new car

$9999 on the windsheild

f*** buying a new falcon

Suck s*** to ford and GM for suffering, they're still pumping out gas guzzlers even years after petrol prices have skyrocketed and at a time when our economy is for-s***


yeah holden saw the prices of fuel and had the bright idea of raising the displacement of their s*** V8 from 6 to 7 litres, good one dips****

last edited by paveway at 15:07:13 21/Nov/08
03:06pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3955 posts
yeah mission, those kind of taxis are 'taxi packs' from the factory

most operators don't run them because they're 30 grand and almost impossible to resell. They usually buy 2 or 3 year old ex fleet cars for $13-$16k, less depreciation that way.
03:24pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Thundercracker
Brisbane, Queensland
1818 posts
I got my falcoon second hand mainly because it was so damn cheap! how does the depreciation compare with a holden commodore?
03:25pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3956 posts
within cooee thundercracker. used to be a fair bit better for the commodore, but not these days. my cousin just picked up a late '05 commo exec with a genuine bodykit, 60k on the clock, $15k. Would have cost $35k new.
03:27pm 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15002 posts
"Let me ask you, will anyone here be selling their private jet and taking a commercial flight home? raise your hand."


this is standard corporate policy for many big companies for personal security. its not intended as a luxury. and its missing the point. fyi, if general motors was a country it would have a gdp of 1/3 that of australia. so the ceo is a fairly important individual.

yeah holden saw the prices of fuel and had the bright idea of raising the displacement of their s*** V8 from 6 to 7 litres, good one dips****


i realise you haven't driven for a while, but fuel could drop below $1/L this year. nows the time to be driving 7 litres imo.
07:15pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Jim
Brisbane, Queensland
8845 posts
7 litres...
or more!!
07:25pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
6844 posts
this is standard corporate policy for many big companies for personal security. its not intended as a luxury. and its missing the point. fyi, if general motors was a country it would have a gdp of 1/3 that of australia. so the ceo is a fairly important individual.


So if its so big and powerful and s*** .. why are they going to the US government seeking a handout ?
07:26pm 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15003 posts
So if its so big and powerful and s*** .. why are they going to the US government seeking a handout ?


uhh... because they owe half a trillion dollars or something. i'll let you work out what that means by yourself.
07:31pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
6845 posts
And your point ?

They obviously have been living a life style they can't sustain. Which may be percieved as being related to excessive executive salaries and company jets ?

I'll let you work that one out...
07:55pm 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15004 posts
theres nothing to work out obes, its retarded logic.

the private jets are for the safety of the ceos/board/whatever. its like saying that kevin rudd should fly qantas because australia is in recession.

to point at the private jets as a reason behind the failure of the companies is missing the point, they aren't failing because the fat cats in charge are spending money on jets, cocaine and hookers. they are losing money because the fat cats can't run the company right. they aren't making cars that the people want.

gm is throwing away millions of dollars a day because nobody is buying their cars, a $10,000 flight isn't going to bankrupt them. and from a business risk point of view, $10000 is nothing compared to the money lost if the ceo is shot by a disgruntled ex-worker.
08:11pm 21/11/08 Permalink
stinky
Brisbane, Queensland
2896 posts
the private jets are for the safety of the ceos/board/whatever. its like saying that kevin rudd should fly qantas because australia is in recession.


hahahaha are you serious?
08:36pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3959 posts
I don't agree, nF. Plenty of CEO's fly on normal Flights. The late Geoff Polites, CEO of Ford Aus flew on commercial flights. The founder of Ikea refuses to fly anything but economy class. No they don't need private jets, nor multi-million dollar salaries.
08:42pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
6846 posts
The have a right to bear arms ... they'll be fine.

note. I never at any point said I neccessarily agree with the comment. note I specifically said "percieved". Heck the money lost from the CEOs sitting in transit lounge's waiting for normal flight would probably have been more then a private jet flight (based on their current quite large salaries).

But politics these days is about short news cycles and perceptions (and its f***ed). Combined with the american hatred of interventionist governments wrt to the economy. It has probably doomed their request atleast at first.

Perhaps you didn't notice what happened to the bailout of their banks when Jo Public heard about it ?

It was like when the news decided to beat up on John Howard for reoutfitting the PMs plane ... ffs the PM's head of the county it should be good.
08:44pm 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15005 posts
The late Geoff Polites, CEO of Ford Aus flew on commercial flights.


so, how did he have to worry about? peter brock? and the ikea guy? he doesn't even pay his taxes.
08:50pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
6847 posts
Who'd these big 3 CEOs have to worry about ?

And what's the ikea guy not paying taxes got to do with anything ? ... I mean he hasn't gone to any governments seeking multibillion dollar hand outs. He has a very large successful company and is what top 10 richest people in the world ? He sounds important and s***... Possibly bigger then alot of small african nations. And he flies coach ?

So along with your shift key and temper, I think your logic might be broken.

09:14pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3960 posts
whoops

last edited by MrHardware at 22:06:33 21/Nov/08
09:19pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
3078 posts
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ikea-founder-overtakes-bill-gates-in-the-wealth-stakes-and-he-assembled-it-all-himself-559055.html
He describes his only luxury in life, a small Provençal vineyard, as a "very expensive hobby". His car is an 11-year-old Volvo, he trawls the internet for flight bargains and always travels in the economy cabin.
09:58pm 21/11/08 Permalink
MrHardware
Brisbane, Queensland
3961 posts
ooh, my bad. confusing it with someone else.
10:01pm 21/11/08 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
10349 posts
you cannot possibly compare a ford/holden to precision german engineering. that's all i have to say.
10:16pm 21/11/08 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
4303 posts
you can compare it unfavourably can't you? aha!
10:27pm 21/11/08 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
10350 posts
dont even mention them in the same sentence unless you are going to say they can't be compared.
10:31pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
3079 posts
ooh, my bad. confusing it with someone else.
I think you owe nf an apology.
10:34pm 21/11/08 Permalink
Ross
Brisbane, Queensland
1862 posts
They run their business on credit like the rest of the world. Credit dry's up and they can't pay the rent
11:56pm 21/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15009 posts
Who'd these big 3 CEOs have to worry about ?

And what's the ikea guy not paying taxes got to do with anything ? ... I mean he hasn't gone to any governments seeking multibillion dollar hand outs. He has a very large successful company and is what top 10 richest people in the world ? He sounds important and s***... Possibly bigger then alot of small african nations. And he flies coach ?

So along with your shift key and temper, I think your logic might be broken.


ceos upset people. they are also people in the public eye, just like actors, etc. corporations have a legal requirement to provide a safe environment for their workers. its not rocket science. i'm sure they don't wait for cabs either. you're a moron if you can't see this.

also my shift key is like your hair brush, its not exactly needed.
04:01am 22/11/08 Permalink
Crizane Tribal
Brisbane, Queensland
2378 posts
If Ford lost its Gov/Commercial Fleet Sales

As far as I have seen, Ford doesn't seem to have that big a government fleet agreement (at least on the state level). Customs (federal) and Centrelink seem to drive a LOT of Toyota Camry models, and I'm pretty sure state government is not allowed to rely too much on one company as a supplier for something (for example, they can't use only Konica printers, or only Ford cars). We don't have a single Ford in our division's fleet. Look around for cars with "QG" as the first 2 letters. You won't see many of them being fords.
04:54am 22/11/08 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
6848 posts
Ok nf, Show me anywhere where a CEO has been shot at an airport in the US. Infact your link shows that they are far more likely to be shot at their place of work. S*** they better not go to work... cos they are important and s***.

Particularly since you have to take off your shoes at US airports?

Here's a riddle.
If the governemnt won't give them money because the are flying private jets and the companies go under, how important are the CEOs ?
08:34am 22/11/08 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
4343 posts
Ohhhh I love riddles.

I used to work for a major public company here in Brisbane and the Exec Chairman travels by a private jet.

A return trip to Sydney was ~$18,000 and return to melbourne was ~$32,000.

The best bit for him was that he personally owns the company that owns the jet. So he would have the public company (owned by shareholders, other than himself) pay these fees to his private company so he could fly.

So he gets to fly in his private jet and make money (personal money, not public company money) on it at the same time.

The rich get richer.

last edited by mission at 08:58:48 22/Nov/08
08:53am 22/11/08 Permalink
nF
Forum Hero
Wynnum, Queensland
15010 posts
did i say shot obes? the link was of some ceo shot by an employee like a week ago (in the states). it was an example of a ceo of some dinky little company that didn't take security seriously. like i said, companies like ford/gm/whatever probably take a slightly more holistic approach to safety than just private jets. you're still a moron.
12:29pm 22/11/08 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
662 posts
They should have asked them how many of them are going to take pay cuts. I dont mean not getting bonus, I mean less $ per year.
12:53pm 22/11/08 Permalink
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