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Voltage drop
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22171 posts
sup ladies, how you doin?

Ok so, PC seems unstable lately and crashes during games, freezes, won't boot past POST sometimes so I decided to futz with the voltages and keep an eye on things.

So I've set my vcore voltage to 1.36v in the BIOS and in windows it's telling me it's only at 1.32v but when I start prime going on max power consumption the voltage drops to just above 1.2v.

Does this indicate a dying PSU? It's a 1000W psu so I would have thought that would be enough for 2 HDD's, 1 SSD, 4 sticks of ram, 1 CPU and 1GPU (I normally have 2 video cards but took one out for stability tests, it didn't help :sadface:)

So I think all my random crashes and instabilities are because under load, my CPU isn't getting the juice it requires. Doesn't just crash under OC, it also does strange s*** at stock speeds and temps are around 50degrees under load so it's not heat related. (side of the case is off anyway just in case)

Mobo is a GA-Z68X-UD7-B3, CPU is an i7 2700k
12:30am 20/09/13 Permalink
system
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12:30am 20/09/13 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2462 posts
Most likely yes. most psu's only last 2-3 years
01:51am 20/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4259 posts
Most likely yes. most psu's only last 2-3 years



nar, a good psu lasts way longer
03:30am 20/09/13 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
2474 posts
try changing your vdroop setting
03:42am 20/09/13 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
2475 posts
oh and disable that auto power saving, down clocking s***. I cant remember the name for it on a Gigabyte mobo. Seemed to make my system unstable and crash at random intervals when I had that enabled on win 7 64bit.
03:46am 20/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14327 posts
It is hard to say if it is PSU, the systems could also be RAM (less likely though).

Your PSU is f****d probably, replace it before it craps out and takes out your system.

What brand is it? A generic '1000W' PSU doesn't mean it is 1000W. PSU are notorious for making them sound better then what they are. There are no standards that a PSU needs to comply with (only safety).

You need to buy a PSU that has enough power on the rail(s) you draw from. For instance they will say stuff like 4 12v rails at 15amps = 720W PSU!!!11one However 15amps max draw on 1 rail is pretty pissant.
06:55am 20/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36531 posts
Most likely yes. most psu's only last 2-3 years


lucky i buy quality cm psu's, mines still going strong 5 and a bit years, running 24/7
07:04am 20/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14328 posts
Unlike your Car eh? BAM!
08:04am 20/09/13 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
36532 posts
right in the feel :(
10:04am 20/09/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
75 posts
As Rdizz said, this is related to vdroop. Your PSU is fine.

You need to find Vdroop (or CPU/Vcore LLC) settings in the BIOS. CPU's are designed to have a voltage drop under heavy load for long life + power consumption. You can set your BIOS to remove some of the droop, remove it all, or even ADD voltage under load (generally not a good idea)

Eg: On Rampage 4 Extreme mobo, it's LLC, and you set it up Medium/High to get no voltage drop. Setting to Extreme actually adds a little voltage.

Ultimately, nothing is wrong with your hardware.

-----------

You also need to up the current limiter on the mobo as well. While you can clock and volt the CPU up, if you don't add more current to it then you aren't gaining any compute power, and generally causing the system to become unstable.

I run mine at 120% for 24/7 clocks, and 160% for benching.
12:28pm 20/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14331 posts
ph33x, that is great and all, it doesn't address his problem of crashes and whatnot.
01:12pm 20/09/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
77 posts
As he indicated, the problem is random, and under load. How do we know the vdroop isn't pulling his vcore down to a semi-unstable amount? I know that if I was expecting 1.3 volts, and was getting 1.2 volts, I'd have all kinds of issues.

As for it doing it on stock speeds, he has a 2700k. It could be degrading, and offsetting the voltage to +0.025v may just fix it.

This is actually a rather common question/problem on clocking forums.
01:36pm 20/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14333 posts
Well fair enough then!
02:13pm 20/09/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
78 posts
Wait.. What? Aren't we supposed to inflate our chests and butt up against each other? This place confuses me. :/

I shouldn't say 'The PSU is fine" just yet. The PSU 'could' have a problem and shouldn't be eliminated as a cause. - However, the fix above is mere settings you can play with, and there in no cost in trying. Usually when a PSU is on the way out, the mobo will detect 'bad power' and this is accompanied by the system turning off by itself for no reason.

For those interested in reading more about vdroop + power delivery on Intel CPUs, you can check out: http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126

http://i.imgur.com/d1D46.jpg
02:28pm 20/09/13 Permalink
scooby
Brisbane, Queensland
4559 posts
i seem to recall a post by Whoop where he stated that Any Old PowerSupply would Do and that You Get What you Pay For LOLZ
02:56pm 20/09/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22173 posts
try changing your vdroop setting
oh and disable that auto power saving, down clocking s***. I cant remember the name for it on a Gigabyte mobo. Seemed to make my system unstable and crash at random intervals when I had that enabled on win 7 64bit.
As he indicated, the problem is random, and under load. How do we know the vdroop isn't pulling his vcore down to a semi-unstable amount? I know that if I was expecting 1.3 volts, and was getting 1.2 volts, I'd have all kinds of issues.As for it doing it on stock speeds, he has a 2700k. It could be degrading, and offsetting the voltage to +0.025v may just fix it.This is actually a rather common question/problem on clocking forums.

Yeah afterwards I did mess about with a setting called "load line" which apparently is what gigabyte calls it.

My problem is that it can be all fine and dandy, nothing wrong and then one day bam, hard lock and then it won't even pass a POST. The other night, it wouldn't even let me reset CMOS, eventually it just started working again (thinking it was because I'd reset it) but when I got back into CMOS, the values I'd previously set were still there.

I adjusted that load-line setting to hold it steady at 1.33v under full load and it seems to be a bit more stable but it was 2am by the time I'd finished booting and rebooting so no time to do a solid test.

i seem to recall a post by Whoop where he stated that Any Old PowerSupply would Do and that You Get What you Pay For LOLZ

I posted proof in a picture of you saying your work is dodgy, where's the proof of me saying that? I've never once said to cheap out on a PSU. Ever. It's the one thing you NEVER cheap out on.

troll on b****
05:33pm 20/09/13 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10135 posts
nar, a good psu lasts way longer


anything can fail - regardless of it's brand

but yeah - better equipment tends to get damaged by the user, leading to inflated failure stats

not trying to tell you blokes to suck eggs here, but imo PC gamers who purchase decent PC gaming equipment and laugh at the concept of power protection are usually the loudest complainers when faults occur.
03:22pm 21/09/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22181 posts
^^

I'll admit, I have a power filter board but I can't be bothered with the extra price of power + cost of a UPS but then again I won't complain when / if my PC dies because it gets hit by lightning. I'll just suck it up and go buy new bits.
03:31pm 21/09/13 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
14341 posts

Wait.. What? Aren't we supposed to inflate our chests and butt up against each other? This place confuses me. :/


A wise man knows when he is out matched before it comes to blows.
03:39pm 21/09/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
4266 posts
^^I'll admit, I have a power filter board but I can't be bothered with the extra price of power + cost of a UPS but then again I won't complain when / if my PC dies because it gets hit by lightning. I'll just suck it up and go buy new bits.


dude, jaycar have smaller UPS with inbuilt filtering, and under 80
05:57pm 21/09/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22197 posts
I also said I cbf with the extra costs that it would add to the power bill. My PC already uses ~600 watts in games and ~370 just sitting here browsing QGL.




Thread update of sorts

After d***ing about with the "vdroop" (or load line as this board calls it) my PC now seems to be solid as a porn star's penis in mid flight. I haven't done any proper stress testing but it hasn't crashed on me in games or in windows or during the couple of minutes I had prime / kombustor (to check if it was the video card) going.

What's more, I decided to just give it some and up it to 4.5ghz permanently (none of this turbo boost malarky or enhanced halt state nonsense) so that should tide me over a little while longer until some shiny fancy new CPU comes out to replace this one with. Temps get up there a bit in prime so I might just keep lowering the voltages a bit until the temps come down and it starts to crash, then up them a notch or two for stable.

Job well done everyone.
09:08pm 24/09/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
95 posts
I'd personally run with offset mode and let Speedstep do its thing, your CPU though.

I seem to manage my 4.6G clock with all C states, Steepstep, etc. The system would use screw all power at idle. Up at the 5Ghz mark I found better stability running locked clocks.

370 watts at idle is a lot unless you're running several cards and a big WC loop.
10:13am 25/09/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22202 posts
2 x 570 oc videocards
12:16pm 25/09/13 Permalink
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12:16pm 25/09/13 Permalink
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