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Small PC upgrade recommend me SSD and GTX
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4868 posts
So looking to do a small upgrade as I have Quad Core Q9550 and 8gb DDR3 ram.

I am thinking about buying GTX 680 but i am not to sure what SSD card i should go for? Would definitely want SATA 3 so it will be compatible in my next upgrade (which will be CPU, motherboard and RAM)

Do you think it worth getting 680 with my specs or get a 670 when they come out?

EDIT: ATM i have GTX260 which keeps freezing my computer (its gunna die soon!)

DOUBLE EDIT: Bought the GTX 670 for $460 at Computer Alliance yesterday and very happy with it. Runs Batman and Battlefield 3 on ultra graphics with no problems. Very happy!!! Will order SSD drive probably next week :)
08:15pm 10/05/12 Permalink
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08:15pm 10/05/12 Permalink
step
Brisbane, Queensland
2461 posts
Intel or Crucial M4.

I probably wouldn't get a 680 for that machine.
08:25pm 10/05/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5496 posts
I'd get a 660-670 but really up to you. I doubt your CPU would choke the gpu, just it wouldn't quite fit overspending so much on the gpu on a yesteryear base.

What is your gpu currently?
08:28pm 10/05/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
6539 posts
Hmm, I don't think I'd bother getting a GTX680 until prices come down to GTX570 levels. Maybe go 2x GTX570 or a GTX580, should last you quite awhile.
08:50pm 10/05/12 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
695 posts
I have 2 crucial m4's 1 in the pc and 1 in the lappy. Never had a problem
09:02pm 10/05/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9641 posts
Like SSDs matter ...

You load the map faster, but if they have an issue you are up for a reinstall.
09:49pm 10/05/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2728 posts
hell a single gtx 570 is going to do you well, and at worse it can be bumped to a physx card later down the track
09:50pm 10/05/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5498 posts
Both intels and crucials have failure rates equivilent of a WD or Seagate drive. If those fail, you're in the same spot.

Here's another thing; loading windows is faster. Loading your game is faster. Loading programs is faster.

Here's another thing; you can still grab a second and run raid1 if you want.

Obes you're just old.
09:50pm 10/05/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9643 posts
I maybe old ... but I am lazy.

I like to play my games with minimum effort and maximum framerate (I had Voodoo 12MB sli before every d***wad b**** slaw nugget on this forum ... sure it cost $1500 but how good did unreal demo look).

Buy an SSD load the PC faster while you are taking a piss, and grabbing a southern...

Buy an SSD so you load that map faster while being forced into a pre match wait...

Buy an SSD so you can spend a night reinstalling windows and it's 50 billion updates instead of being pissed playing a game with mates ... priceless

How many discharges in DM3 have I missed!

Blame OCZ

/color 2 14
/ready
10:02pm 10/05/12 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
696 posts
Once you tried a ssd you wont go back
10:08pm 10/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4869 posts
I've got SSD in my work laptop and love it. Just think bang for bux best thing to buy is SSD and GTX. I already know i need GTX card so just wondering if i should get 670 or 680
10:36pm 10/05/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6956 posts
You load the map faster, but if they have an issue you are up for a reinstall.

So vague. You realise if your mechanical drive fails you're "up for a reinstall" too?

Grab a copy of a free OS backup program (Macrium Reflect Free), back up regularly and you can restore to the last snapshot in a matter of minutes.
Both intels and crucials have failure rates equivilent of a WD or Seagate drive

100% untrue.

The WD and Seagate mechanical drives have fairly high failure rates while the Intel and Crucials are cruising along with happy owners. The stats don't lie - if people have SSDs die as badly as the WD/Seagate ones, you can bet they will be giving bad reviews. Newegg reviews below, you can look up Amazon reviews yourself to confirm:

http://users.on.net/~deadsimple/images/hdds.png
11:18pm 10/05/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2729 posts
well i just got an email from gainward, looks like the 670 is now here!
03:13am 11/05/12 Permalink
step
Brisbane, Queensland
2462 posts
There are some reviews out on the 670, it seems to be a hell of a card.

Techpower up have done this awesome comparison of PCIe generations and the impact of them on the latest PCIe3 cards, Techpowerup review.
07:24am 11/05/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15344 posts
For the people who have had multiple mechanical hard drive failures, do you turn your computer off? and what is the quality of your power supply?
08:03am 11/05/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4519 posts
Both intels and crucials have failure rates equivilent of a WD or Seagate drive. If those fail, you're in the same spot.


another difference is when the SSD has an end of life failure it still works as a read drive so you can still get your precious files, not so with mechanical drives.
08:18am 11/05/12 Permalink
Seven
Wollongong, New South Wales
1474 posts
Crucial M4 FTW. Haven't had a problem with it. Sped my computer up faster than any CPU or RAM upgrade I've ever done.
09:18am 11/05/12 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3183 posts
+1 Crucial M4, they're getting to under $1 per gb now (if you order from Amazon or b&h in America)
09:23am 11/05/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6958 posts
(if you order from Amazon or b&h in America)

How do you do that with electronics from Amazon? I get:

"In Stock. We are not able to ship this item to your default shipping address. "

Would use the U.S. mail forwarders but by the time you take their charges into account, it's pushed the overall cost back to the Australian retail price.

(or are you merely saying if you live in America?)
10:22am 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4870 posts
ive bought 5x3tb hdd from B&H for AUD$114 each and have had no problems with them :)
10:24am 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4871 posts
10:37am 11/05/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6848 posts
Scorptec currently have 240GB Samsuns Extreme SSDs for $249. I bought one, but am still trying to figure out how to image my 120GB Vertex 3 to it and actually make it boot.

With graphics cards, either get a 570 now, or wait for the 670. Don't bother with the 680.
10:41am 11/05/12 Permalink
Seven
Wollongong, New South Wales
1475 posts
I get that same problem these days, parabol. Didn't get it two months ago though. Not sure what has changed.

Yes, TiT, that would be great for what you need. I bought the 128 GB, because my OS drive never gets bigger than that, but if you have other uses and can afford it, by all means :D
10:44am 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4872 posts
would i just need to buy 3.5 to 2.5" caddy to fit into my desktop
10:50am 11/05/12 Permalink
Seven
Wollongong, New South Wales
1476 posts
Ah, yes, I forgot about that. You would. A quick scan doesn't show one on the B&H site, I got this guy from Amazon with my order. Static Ice that guy and you should be ok (or from your local PC shop)
10:58am 11/05/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6959 posts
I bought one, but am still trying to figure out how to image my 120GB Vertex 3 to it and actually make it boot.

Like I said in an earlier post, get a copy of Macrium Reflect Free edition (link). Simply select "Clone", done.
would i just need to buy 3.5 to 2.5" caddy to fit into my desktop

Not necessary to buy a bracket/adapter if you don't move your PC. My SSD is just sitting at the base of my case. If you want one they cost about $10. You'd think being so simple you'd have no issues right? I had to enlargen the screw-holes in mine as the case screws wouldn't fit ...
11:04am 11/05/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6851 posts
Not necessary to buy a bracket/adapter if you don't move your PC. My SSD is just sitting at the base of my case. If you want one they cost about $10. You'd think being so simple you'd have no issues right? I had to enlargen the screw-holes in mine as the case screws wouldn't fit ...

facepalm.

The screws used for 2.5" disks are M3, 3.5 use 6-32UNC-2B - 3/16" for side, 1/4" for bottom mounts. Yes, it's bloody confusing.

I see so many HDDs destroyed because people use the wrong screws. probably 85% of HDD failures and RMAs are actually caused by people using the wrong screw thread - the result is the HDD doesn't sit tightly, sits there operating for ages vibrating away, until eventually a head vibrates our of place and fails and/or scratches the platter to hell.

Yeeeears ago I used to not understand this and would have HDDs fail on me reasonably often. In the past maybe 8 years? To be honest I can't recall the last time I had to RMA a HDD.
My dad has to RMA drives all the time, and generally when I look at them I see he's used the wrong screws.

M3s are for SSD, optical and floppy drives only.

If you're using Hex head 3/16 screws on your HDDs, you're asking for tears. They're made of zinc. Use a pan-head.
11:50am 11/05/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5499 posts
Oh parabol.. your information was good, but you're way too oddball about some things. Can my post be 100% untrue if you're saying the same thing as me?

Geez.

As far as I know the GTX 670 is coming out today in the states. So your wait for it is over TiT
11:59am 11/05/12 Permalink
step
Brisbane, Queensland
2463 posts
As far as I know the GTX 670 is coming out today in the states. So your wait for it is over TiT
In stores over here too. CA has the Gigabyte overclock for $495.
12:50pm 11/05/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6961 posts
Oh parabol.. your information was good, but you're way too oddball about some things. Can my post be 100% untrue if you're saying the same thing as me?

Your off-topic opinions of my other posts aside, you said Intel/Crucial have similar failure rates to WD/Seagate. The statement is either true or false, I told you it's false along with data to back it up - hence I'm not saying the same thing as you.

I have no brand allegiance/fanboism, I'd happily jump between manufacturers each generation/series. I judge a product on its merits and try to give advice to minimise people's headaches - as I've many times been in situations where I've bought a product without much research and had non-stop headaches with instability / data loss.
facepalm.

The screws used for 2.5" disks are M3, 3.5 use 6-32UNC-2B - 3/16" for side, 1/4" for bottom mounts. Yes, it's bloody confusing.

Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough. The SSD can be screwed onto the bracket just fine with the appropriate small screws meant to 2.5" drives. It's a problem with the 3.5"-side screw-holes in the side of the bracket - they are too small, meaning you can't [without modifications] treat the bracket as a 3.5" drive which is the point of the adapter.

last edited by parabol at 13:01:01 11/May/12
12:56pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Seven
Wollongong, New South Wales
1477 posts
meaning you can't [without modifications] treat the bracket as a 3.5" drive which is the point of the adapter

While screwing my adaptor into the frame was tight, it still worked without modification. Perhaps YMMV
01:23pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9648 posts
So vague. You realise if your mechanical drive fails you're "up for a reinstall" too?

Well the 2 OCZ SSDs I tried both failed with in 6 months.
And when they failed it just would not boot. Better yet they could not be read using any method at all on a variety of PCs. All data gone.

In my 24 years of owning PCs (and being the poor sucker people bring their broken s*** to) I have never had a single traditional disk unexpectedly and immediately die (they gave warnings sometimes for a year or more) and even when they have died. I have usually (more than 80% of the time) been able to get data back.

Also 2 in 6 months ... f*** that s***.

So that to me is the risk.

Now what is the benefit ?
"No moving parts" ? so ... they have a limited life and off my huge sample set of 2 drives aren't exactly reliable.

Fast !!! yeah for sure. You load maps faster and then wait.

Quiet ? ... yeah sure but in gaming rig my CPU cooler and video card coolers drown out the HDDs anyway. On a lappie ? yeah good

Lighter ... yeah good on a lappie

Less power ... yeah good on a lappie.

And all of that is not really fair.
The Intel 520 SSDs are awesome but at $800+ for a 480GB drive ...
02:48pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6855 posts
A lot of the early problems of very high failure rates with SSDs (of any brand in general) has now largely been resolved. We're seeing a massively reduced RMA rate of products, and the percentage of returns figure it still being affected by those exorbitantly high early figures.

Also, don't get a 480GB just yet. Performance is best around the 240GB mark.

last edited by Raven at 14:59:51 11/May/12
02:58pm 11/05/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6962 posts
Well the 2 OCZ SSDs I tried both failed with in 6 months.
And when they failed it just would not boot. Better yet they could not be read using any method at all on a variety of PCs. All data gone.

Condolences on the OCZ drives. I feel bad for people who bought them :(
In my 24 years of owning PCs (and being the poor sucker people bring their broken s*** to) I have never had a single traditional disk unexpectedly and immediately die

I had similar thoughts until 3 to 4 out of 8 WD Blue drives I've had in different machines in different parts of Brisbane one by one stopped being seen by the PCs they were in.
Now what is the benefit ?

For me having 100X faster seek times than a mechanical drive is the main benefit. Can read/process/copy lots of tiny files very quickly. Meaning fast boot and shutdown times, fast program startup times, fast cold-search times, fast backups, fast everything.

For example on my new laptop with a modern mechanical drive and relatively fresh install of Windows, it takes ~20 seconds to open my first program (e.g Firefox) after Windows has booted while my HDD is crunching away like mad. On my slower desktop machine with an SSD and an aging install of Windows, I can launch half a dozen programs the instant my desktop shows, and they all load almost instantly.

But yeah if you came from OCZ drives, I can fully appreciate why you are nervous.

last edited by parabol at 15:03:38 11/May/12
02:59pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1183 posts
I got two Crucial M4s awesome drives, I am using a 240Gb as my main boot drive. Got a 120Gb in the kids PC. Both are flawless.


And as if anyone loads their OS from scratch anymore Obes, system images only take 10 minutes to restore.
04:01pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12891 posts
heh I'm still running two ocz ssd drives without a single issue
04:06pm 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4873 posts
what program do you use for system image Mass?


At the moment i am running 2 x 320gb Vel Raptors 10000rpm HDD and 1 x 1tb green drive. What i want to do is have 1 SSD drive for OS and Adobe etc. Run 2 x raptor drive raid 1 and use them for steam directory :)
04:07pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13188 posts
I just had a Crucial M4 fail :(

Computer started to go slowly, couldn't diagnose the problem. Looked in task manager, RAM seemed to be going ok, CPU was basically idle. Computer was at a speed that was basically unusable.

Since then, tried to diagnose the problem using Safe Mode, computer started to go even slower. Like, really really really slow. Just to start the browser would take 5 minutes.

Thought, stuff it I'll reformate. Deleted partitions, created new partitions, formatted partition - nope. Refused to format.

Started again from Win 7 boot disk and manually formatted C:\ using the command prompt. So far it's been running about 48h and it has formatted 62% haha.

My current plan is to let that finish and try a firmware upgrade, but yeah, I think she's gone.
04:14pm 11/05/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
3357 posts
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04:22pm 11/05/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2731 posts
heh I'm still running two ocz ssd drives without a single issue


+1
05:29pm 11/05/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5504 posts
To give a story about OCZ drives, so far out of the 8 which were installed in various servers which were cheap VM hosts for specific things in several companies, 6 of them randomly 'unmounted' and becoming undetectable. Although flashing the latest firmware brought all of them alive, and stable.

The other 2 were the last to put in and they were put on after a firmware flash and have been solid.

The last one that failed was recently, and we hadn't been onsite in a while (Offsite support contract but was noted to update the firmware on them next time we were onsite) and the HDD's dismounted during a backup of the mail server.. the server ended up with corrupted tables and had to be rebuilt but it took 8 hours. No data loss but it was a pretty long day without email for the company.

Not my decision on the hardware i started after it was all chosen. I learned a lot about exchange 2003 that day and how to trick the email clients into working offline to work with their OST's and how to restart with online enabled but they'd have no mail except for any new mail they wanted to send receive. Was interesting.

Anyway point of the story is OCZ needs it's firmware updated on the vertex 3's. It's a 100% must. But if i learned anything it'd be to buy an intel.
06:01pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Enska
Sydney, New South Wales
1748 posts
Crucial ftw and go that gtx 680, f*** it why not you won't have to upgrade it for a decent while.
06:20pm 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4874 posts
might buy NVIDIA GTX670 2GB Gigabyte tomorrow if they still have any left for $495

http://www.computeralliance.com.au/parts.aspx?qryPart=13763
06:24pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
33714 posts
Once you tried a ssd you wont go back
06:36pm 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4875 posts
Enska there is pretty much no difference between 670 OC and 680 and you save $100-$200 :)
07:16pm 11/05/12 Permalink
step
Brisbane, Queensland
2464 posts
might buy NVIDIA GTX670 2GB Gigabyte tomorrow if they still have any left for $495
Mention the OCAU sponsor deal: $469 http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1030264
09:06pm 11/05/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2736 posts
been using ssd's for months in desktops, servers, notebooks.. havent had one fail yet.

use mainly patriot pyro and intel 520 series
09:35pm 11/05/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4876 posts
cheers for that step!
11:10pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13191 posts
My format didn't get past 68%

I just tried the Crucial M4 firmware boot disk and it said the drive was eligible for the firmware update but then the update failed.

Looks like the drive is toast. Have to send that bad boy away.

I was able to recover data off it before it died which was nice.
11:17pm 11/05/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6857 posts
Like I said in an earlier post, get a copy of Macrium Reflect Free edition (link). Simply select "Clone", done.

Thanks for the link - I tried this last night. Sadly, no better.

Well, I lie - that's a fantastic program, and it's much easier to use than the previous method I was attempting - completely straightforward. But I've ended up in much the same position. That is, I've imaged the drive, and then tested putting it to sleep and waking it up. And tested rebooting it. So it appears to work fine.
But then the next morning it won't come out of sleep, BSODs, won't boot even with repair... so I'm now booted back off the drive I cloned from in the first place :(

I think what I might have to do is just use the Vertex3 as my boot drive, and move all the apps the new drive and junction them.
10:58am 12/05/12 Permalink
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