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Smart Grid
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
5901 posts
Busting the myth that Electric Cars will outstrip the capacity of the Electricity grid.

09:37am 03/05/12 Permalink
system
Internet
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09:37am 03/05/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3037 posts
I'll watch this later, I like his presenting style, he and the guy that plays Rimmer in Red Dwarf have made some good doco's.
09:50am 03/05/12 Permalink
gamer
2459 posts
Great vid - thanks for sharing.

Quite an insight into the central nervus system of the electricity grid in the UK.

I was surprised to hear they share power with france, wales etc... thats great!

Interesting bit on wind turbines how they can control them from the center to tell them to generate more or less.

He said a few times that when they are over producing they turn down or switch off stuff starting at the highest cost and working their way down. That made me wonder, for wind they obvious factor into how long it takes for the bearings to get f***ed and the cost of replacing it. So I hope all those costs of all that are lower then it costs to chuck some coal into a furnice :(
10:07am 03/05/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12860 posts
why do you hope that? you think cost should be the only factor considered in converting energy?
incidentally, you might realise that coal stations have moving parts too, and probably a lot more staff
10:11am 03/05/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9550 posts
the myth that Electric Cars will outstrip the capacity of the Electricity grid.


Haven't watched the vid yet, but my first thought is - when people turn on their air conditioners here it crashes the grid... but that's here.
10:20am 03/05/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6808 posts
interesting video. it shows how much of a joke that "earth hour" is :]
10:30am 03/05/12 Permalink
gamer
2460 posts
Jim I mean I hope that the cost of all the setup + maintenance of the renewable stuff like solar and wind will be the lowest on the list... so the coal and nuclear etc get turned down / off first.

Not any of the stupid s*** your rambling on about. DERP FACTORIES HAVE MOVING PARTS AND REQUIRE MAINTENANCE COSTS DERP DERP - no s*** f***wit troll.
10:31am 03/05/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4759 posts
I'd think with the amount of money involved and the volume of data that they have at their command these dudes would have a very good handle on the proportion of plant maintenance costs vs generation costs and it would all factor in under the heading of "costs" when they say they're going to shut down various sources in cost order.
10:38am 03/05/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12861 posts
yeh, and I'm asking you why you hope that gamer
and I'm also asking if it's because you think cost is the most important factor

you really are a bit of a dill
10:38am 03/05/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
8790 posts
Of course cost matters, Do go on holidays to Europe every month Jim ?
It would be wonderful and the Family would love it but you cant afford it.

Its fine to be all Greeny and "embracing a green future" but the reality is someone has to fund it and Banks wont fund Green Energy so that just leaves the poor old Taxpayer.

LOL at Actors being hired to convince us its a good idea to use our Taxes to fund it. Why doesnt the Actor invest in Fairy Energy ?

Wind Energy producing close to nothing during the story but TOMORROW WILL BE WINDY, thats no good because it its too windy they Windmills cant operate. LOL

England imports more Energy from France than it produces in Renewable Energy.
Almost all of their Green Energy is Nuclear Power.

2% currently Wind, it will never get to 20% Renewables and even if it does its unreliable, they will need to have a garaunteed back up Coal or Nuclear because Wind and Solar are unreliable. So you cant close down Coal and relpace it with Wind/Solar. Its impossible or you have to accept there will be loadshedding/blackouts.

All of these stories NEVER tell you the cost.
Many in Britain are experiencing "Fuel Poverty" they cant pay heating and Electricity bills now, how will they when the cost of enerfy triples or more to get to 20% renewables.

We arent looking at England seriously and declaring THATS RETARDED, instead we are creating a $10 Billion Green Fund to fund Fairy Energy, and a seemingly neverending amount of extra funding/taxes/levies etc...

Electric Cars will never be anything but a novelty.



12:51pm 03/05/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12863 posts
Of course cost matters, Do go on holidays to Europe every month Jim ?
It would be wonderful and the Family would love it but you cant afford it.

I wasn't suggesting it doesn't matter - that's why I specifically questioned *whether people think it's the most important factor* - there's a substantial difference

Its fine to be all Greeny and "embracing a green future" but the reality is someone has to fund it and Banks wont fund Green Energy so that just leaves the poor old Taxpayer.
yeh I pay tax and like some of it being spent on development of renewable energy. I'm sure plenty of people feel the same way.

You seem to think that these alternate energy conversion methods should only come in if they're profitable from day one or something?
01:16pm 03/05/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
8777 posts
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01:32pm 03/05/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4514 posts
Many in Britain are experiencing "Fuel Poverty" they cant pay heating and Electricity bills now, how will they when the cost of enerfy triples or more to get to 20% renewables.
well, you pay the bill now or pay it later, i personally want Australia to be a head of the game, but its pretty clear that a future in volatile liquids is going to be volatile at least.

either peak oil comes and it becomes financially viable because we have no choice, or we invest in the infrastructure now and attempt to make a slow transition to absorbs some of that cost. the reality is we're going to need to find ways of generating more power as fuel becomes more expensive. we can either continue to build coal plants or start thinking a bit more about the long term infastructure required to support a nuclear & solar power generation system.

03:13pm 03/05/12 Permalink
gamer
2463 posts
Here is a REALLY smart guy who started fresh when designing a battery for use in power stations to save solar energy for night time...











07:17pm 03/05/12 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
2214 posts
Very interesting video on how the systems works.

Sharing with other nations is great but can have its downside when countries start giving out more power and not having enough for your own people. (See south african/zimbabwe power crisis)
07:33pm 03/05/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
2005 posts
I take your TED and raise you a Michael Webber!
08:06pm 03/05/12 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
5902 posts
Electric Cars will never be anything but a novelty.


Tell that to the thousands of EV drivers in USA.

09:27pm 03/05/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8847 posts

Quite an insight into the central nervus system of the electricity grid in the UK.


Ours works in the same way. I've worked in both control centers of the eastern states grid. I'm a grid analyst.

I was surprised to hear they share power with france, wales etc... thats great!

We have QLD, NSW, VIC, SA and TAS all connected and trading with each other. WA and NT are too far away. We could connect to NZ which might have some merits but the link would be $$$.

Interesting bit on wind turbines how they can control them from the center to tell them to generate more or less.

You can command wind farms to generate less, in which case they brake some of the turbines in the farm. But you can't command them to produce more.

He said a few times that when they are over producing they turn down or switch off stuff starting at the highest cost and working their way down. That made me wonder, for wind they obvious factor into how long it takes for the bearings to get f***ed and the cost of replacing it. So I hope all those costs of all that are lower then it costs to chuck some coal into a furnice :(


National Grid don't calculate the costs. Each power station volunteers what they believe their costs are, and then National Grid instruct based on those submitted costs. Anyway, ordinarily you would only back off wind farms as a last resort, as their energy cost is near zero because wind is free, while coal and gas aren't cause you have to pay for the fuel.

If you're interested in what they said about their 'pumped storage' in the video, well we have that too....that's what Wivenhoe is, in addition to a town water dam and a flood mitigation tool.

Oh and btw, big surprise but faceman doesn't know what he's talking about.
11:39pm 03/05/12 Permalink
Zen Apathy
Brisbane, Queensland
3604 posts
I'll watch this later, I like his presenting style, he and the guy that plays Rimmer in Red Dwarf have made some good doco's.

No he played Kryten.
11:54pm 03/05/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4765 posts
he and the guy that plays Rimmer
12:01am 04/05/12 Permalink
Zen Apathy
Brisbane, Queensland
3605 posts
interesting video. it shows how much of a joke that "earth hour" is :]

Yeah it doesn't take into account it takes time for generation to wind down only to have to wind back up. And is probably just a wanky way to annoy the engineers in control of the distribution grid for an hour. People would be better off trying to reduce their general usage, over a year it would have a far greater impact than turning everything off for an hour.
12:13am 04/05/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8848 posts
Yeah it doesn't take into account it takes time for generation to wind down only to have to wind back up. And is probably just a wanky way to annoy the engineers in control of the distribution grid for an hour.


Generation can wind down pretty darn quickly. This Earth Hour business is no problem for the grid.
07:41am 04/05/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3041 posts
Isn't Earth hour more about awareness of how much we consume, not so much that hour of lessened use?
09:13am 04/05/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8849 posts
yes, the idea of earth hour is to spread awareness of energy efficiency and avoiding wastage, not to actually save power itself.
09:34am 04/05/12 Permalink
gamer
2465 posts
Do wind turbines have a gearbox that you can step up through gears etc to acheive higher rpm? or are they all kept really basic and just prop connects to generator that can have brakes applied?

Does SE QLD have any wind, solar, wave , geothermal etc systems (even just as a test) orbitor?
11:41am 04/05/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8851 posts
Do wind turbines have a gearbox that you can step up through gears etc to acheive higher rpm? or are they all kept really basic and just prop connects to generator that can have brakes applied?

Does SE QLD have any wind, solar, wave , geothermal etc systems (even just as a test) orbitor?


Yes wind turbines have a gearbox because they need to turn the generator at the same speed as every other generator in a linked AC grid. The propellor part of the windfarm turns much slower so the gearbox multiplies the RPM to the level needed.

There are quite a few proposed wind farms for SE QLD, but none operating as yet. The only significant existing windfarm in QLD at the moment is Windy Hill Wind Farm in the Atherton tablelands near Cairns. The main reason we don't have many windfarms in QLD is that QLD isn't as windy as the southern states for the most part.

QLD has a number of small scale solar farms and is likely to get some much bigger ones in the next few years. No wave or geothermal yet, but geothermal is possible in far south-west QLD.
01:41pm 04/05/12 Permalink
BassMan
Brisbane, Queensland
1528 posts
Hey orbitor - do you work for AEMO mate?
06:09pm 04/05/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8852 posts
Bass, I work for a private consulting firm, but I've done lots of consulting for AEMO. Who are you with mate?
06:28pm 04/05/12 Permalink
BassMan
Brisbane, Queensland
1529 posts
Orb - Aurecon (ex-Connell Wagner). I'm a protection engineer & spend most of these days setting relays for Energex.
03:45pm 05/05/12 Permalink
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03:45pm 05/05/12 Permalink
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