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Track IR now or wait for Kinect for PC
Coochie
Brisbane, Queensland
787 posts
From what I understand Kinect is about to be released for PC. Instead of buying a Track IR thingo for flight sims now should I wait for Kinect to be released? Will it do the same thing but better or do more things or what?
07:17pm 16/01/12 Permalink
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07:17pm 16/01/12 Permalink
Linker
Brisbane, Queensland
1544 posts
I don't know that Kinect would have the sensitivity and specific software built around it to harness for Flight Sims. I have a TIR 5 and it's great. You may be waiting a while for some Kinect specific solution to come about. As far as I know, Kinect just tracks skeletal information anyway, not small pointers like the TIR uses.

Plus I think TIR is cheaper than Kinect will be.
07:42pm 16/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
636 posts
+1 for TrackIR also.

It depends on whether or not you want to tinker with a kinect sometime later down the line.

I bought my TIR5 direct from the states (INSANELY fast shipping... paid on Wednesday night @ ~2am, package arrived the following friday morning before work) as it was cheaper than buying in the au (incl shipping) by $40-50 at the time.

TIR is great however fairly niche, I'd recommend one if you want an 'out of the box' solution.

I love that 'Kinect for PC' has an announced price which is like >$50 over the 'Kinect for 360' price...

it seriously boggles the mind as to how some of the pricing for this stuff is determined in the first instance (let alone what happens to the price by the time it gets to AU...)
07:57am 17/01/12 Permalink
Coochie
Brisbane, Queensland
788 posts
It depends on whether or not you want to tinker with a kinect sometime later down the line.
Not likely.

I bought my TIR5 direct from the states (INSANELY fast shipping... paid on Wednesday night @ ~2am, package arrived the following friday morning before work) as it was cheaper than buying in the au (incl shipping) by $40-50 at the time.
Where did you get it from?

Thanks!
10:41am 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
641 posts
Where did you get it from?


Direct:
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

Listed there at 169USD (before shipping)
Best on Staticice is 214AUD (before shipping), and I'm not sure that includes both headpiece types.

The basic head tracking element is very reliable, but if you're playing in a room which has a reasonable amount of IR interference (so, an un-curtained window in the background, or a room 'flooded' with sunlight) the 'Track-clip Pro' is a potential alternative.

You can mount the default clip to a cap brim, or the 'Track-clip Pro' to 'most' headphones

The system has its limitations, but for the one or two games I play with it (Track IR + Eyefinity (@5760x1200)) it rocks... when it's all up and running, it's very elegant, and adds to the simulator experience (ARMA 2, Live for Speed/Dirt2-3/rFactor/GT-R, Flight Sim X/DCS: Black Shark etc)
10:53am 17/01/12 Permalink
Coochie
Brisbane, Queensland
789 posts
Great thanks. Ordered direct.
11:45am 17/01/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
35459 posts
I don't really see how these are good for flightsims - correct me if I'm wrong, but when you turn your head left, you presumably need to keep your eyes focused on the same point of the screen to see the new left perspective?
11:53am 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
643 posts
Hit the vid below trog.

Specifically address at the 1 min mark, but the 5 minute vid explains (and demonstrates) some of the features (and you can see some of the drawbacks so-to-speak)




The 'motion scaling' itself takes a little getting used to (as does the system) but it really adds a massive amount of control when it comes to fine tuning, or the one place I've noticed it most is in a helo sim. It makes hovering in reference to the ground (so my eyes are looking for the direction the ground is drifting below me) I can literally move my head 15 odd degrees and look 90 degrees (so straight left or right) and can very easily identify if I'm drifting into a structure or cliff face etc without screwing about with buttons at all.
12:04pm 17/01/12 Permalink
sCOOBY
Brisbane, Queensland
4409 posts
yea, the eyes having to do the opposite to your head movement kinda spoils it for me.

i like the 'ducking and weaving' to see past the pillars in the c***pit, but not rotation due to the eye-trickery
12:11pm 17/01/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
12185 posts

As far as I know, Kinect just tracks skeletal information anyway


Kinect tracks plenty more, it really comes down to the software. Expect to see plenty of API's and whatnot developed by enthusiasts. Don't be surprised to see something for flight simulator.

12:15pm 17/01/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4163 posts
WTF didnt that guy use the mic strapped to his f*****g head to record the sound FFS. Can hardly make out what he is saying.
12:18pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
646 posts
Kinect tracks plenty more,...

maybe, I mean I've seen what the Kinect actually tracks...
, it really comes down to the software.

There's the weakspot really.

I concede some really awesome stuff has been done by folks willing to mod wii-mote's, and tweak software for kinects, but I bought my TrackIR because it's a package that has support, integrated well into any of the products that have support for it, and is straight forward in application.

it's not for everyone (I still can't use it in driving games I find... I tend to use fixed reference points when cornering (e.g. fixed to the cars c***pit) and a moving camera just throws me waaaay off.

If you own a Kinect, hooray, you might finally be able to do something with it... for me, if I had to choose between the two now?

Well, the TrackIR still requires a hat, or headband/phones... but the reference point is consistent, and very well applied.
The Kinect (in technology terms) is capable of many things... but it isn't developed at all as yet, and is likely to be fairly hack and slash for a little while to come I think.

And then there's the price... before shipping the kinect for PC starts at $250 ($100 more than for 360.... why? is it a different unit? I really doubt that it would be, despite what the packaging or HN sales team tell you...)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/13/kinect-on-pc-more-expensive-less-useful-still-exciting/


WTF didnt that guy use the mic strapped to his f*****g head...


lol, yea the vid is fairly quiet... I never noticed the lack of recording from the boom mic before
12:32pm 17/01/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4164 posts
If you use smart software like Warpalizer with 3 projectors and a curved screen you can make yourself, you get a much more realistic view of the world. When you turn your head your seeing the correct view without having to keep your eyes forward and not a beazel to be seen!

This will be the tech for me once I have money in my life again.



A mix of this kind of tech and Track IR is the ultimate!. Check this vid out to see what I mean.

12:40pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
647 posts
I've had a play with some serious simulators E.T. and you're on the money.... it would be pimp.

That being said, with this setup I can just use my computer desk, with 3x24" monitors (all angled back towards me) and still have a room usable for other things :P

That A-10 vid is awesome. in all seriousness, outside of hydraulicly mounting the entire room, the only other thing this guy is missing is the physical re-creation of the c***pit in the room and it'd be borderline milspec :P

EDIT: SWEET JESUS, if the 3xprojectors and screen weren't enough, have you looked at the price of 'Warpalizer'!?? 450 EURO's!!! and then you can buy it either for OpenGL OR DirectX... but not both!!!
12:59pm 17/01/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4165 posts
EDIT: SWEET JESUS, if the 3xprojectors and screen weren't enough, have you looked at the price of 'Warpalizer'!?? 450 EURO's!!! and then you can buy it either for OpenGL OR DirectX... but not both!!!


Yeah I know, but I think its worth the money for what it does. I havent been able to find anything else that does as good a job.
01:13pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
650 posts
You could run the projectors using eyefinity, and whilst you'd be tweaking the projectors (on any screen let alone curved) for a little while longer (maybe... I'm sure you'd still have to almost 'calibrate' the rendering frame for warpalizer as well, so maybe not) you could get very near the same result (unless I'm missing something...)

Have you seen eyefinity in action E.T.?

Whilst I know there are some nVidia fanboy's here (I used to be one) and I know nVidia are working on their own 'display spanning' interfaces for games, when you get eyefinity all hooked up, the end result is pretty phat. (and not 450-900 Euro's)
01:47pm 17/01/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4166 posts
I already run eyefinity across 3 monitors :)

Warpilizer does a tricky thing with the blending lines and allows for the shape of the curve. Its a bit more detailed than what you might think. Eyefinity cant do any of that. You'll see what I mean by the below setup vid.

02:27pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
653 posts
Yea I've got no doubt it would make setup quite a lot less painful by manipulating the imagery rather than the hardware per-se.

I think between Eyefinity (you can set it up to over-lay the image in the 'bezel adjustment' section) and the image adjustment on the projectors you could get it comfortably close to warrant saving yourself $1200+AU in software expense.

(if it is modifying the image, does that add any kind of delay or affect performance of the hardware at all? I mean does warpalizer interface at a driver level, or take a rendered image, 'tweak it' and then send it on to your display.)
03:05pm 17/01/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4167 posts

(if it is modifying the image, does that add any kind of delay or affect performance of the hardware at all? I mean does warpalizer interface at a driver level, or take a rendered image, 'tweak it' and then send it on to your display.)


I dont know (yet) I was sent the demo software by the developers of Warpalizer but I dont have the projectors yet to try it out.
Anyone got 3 projectors they aren't using?
05:41pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
654 posts
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/61303

OzBargain says Office Jerks are sellin 1080P projector's for <$1000

All you need is $2997 :P
05:56pm 17/01/12 Permalink
Crakaveli
USA
5985 posts
Anyone remember those goggles with the screens in them? It was the equivalent of a 50" screen or something but had rubbish resolution. If they improved on that it would work awesome with TrackIR.


edit: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/19/2573752/Sony-HMZ-T1-TrackIR-5-3D-motion-tracked-gaming

Apparently i'm not the only one :P

last edited by Crakaveli at 18:45:48 17/Jan/12
06:39pm 17/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
657 posts
that it would... right up until the IR camera lost sight of the reference point :P

tho in all srsns... that is kinda how the industry handles this sorta thing atm
06:46pm 17/01/12 Permalink
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06:46pm 17/01/12 Permalink
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