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teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12268 posts
Bam - for anyone who missed out last time, here it is again
02:10pm 12/01/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
02:10pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12114 posts
Thanks a lot for posting this, I ended up buying one for work just as a cheap NAS option.
02:29pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12559 posts
I grabbed one of these from amazon uk a little while back, installed the OS to a usb stick cos there's a handy onboard port just inside the front. took an image of the usb stick and tested writing it to another and booting off that as a backup, seems to work fine

nice little unit, flawless so far
I use it mainly as iscsi storage for test vm's that I run on my desktop, also doubles as samba server for some media
02:36pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6379 posts
Choice!

Too bad they're N36Ls not N40Ls, but so what really. For $220pp you really can't go wrong.
02:40pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3904 posts
Whats the difference between N36L and N40L?
03:48pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Denny
Brisbane, Queensland
3407 posts
I would'nt buy from Megabuy just on principle after their antics with the microserver but it's up to you I guess

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1697165
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1691430

Whats the difference between N36L and N40L?


Faster Turion CPU in the N40L I believe is the only difference.

last edited by Denny at 15:51:08 12/Jan/12
03:49pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6383 posts
Might be 2GB instead of 1GB as well, but I'm not certain.
04:02pm 12/01/12 Permalink
kappa
Brisbane, Queensland
1750 posts
I've still got mine sitting at home waiting for me to do something with it.
04:09pm 12/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1898 posts
I would'nt buy from Megabuy just on principle after their antics with the microserver but it's up to you I guess

i wouldn't buy from megabuy after they screwed me around with some hdd's, BUT i could find a use for one of these little boxes
04:33pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Denominator
Brisbane, Queensland
906 posts
Its still overpriced
04:39pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Clubby
Brisbane, Queensland
742 posts
I've still got mine sitting at home waiting for me to do something with it.


Lol same and 5 x 2Tb WD Greens (which cost me $84 each at the time). On of the guys at work here mod'd the PSU and fan and has 4 x 3Tb in the bays and 4 x something laptop HDD's in the CD Rom bay ...
04:46pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8676 posts
The maximum hard drive capacity this thing takes is 2 GB per hard drive. This is unacceptable to me, and should be unacceptable to you.

All the latest QWOPs and DRONGOs accept hard drives with up to a bajillion* terrabytes.


* can't find the exact number
04:49pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12117 posts
I would'nt buy from Megabuy just on principle after their antics with the microserver but it's up to you I guess

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1697165
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1691430


Faster Turion CPU in the N40L I believe is the only difference.last edited by Denny at 15:51:08 12/Jan/12

Thanks for heads-up - will let everyone know how it goes.
04:52pm 12/01/12 Permalink
kappa
Brisbane, Queensland
1751 posts
Pretty sure they can take 3TB drives.
04:58pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8677 posts
I meant 2TB btw (not 2GB), which is what it says in the specs. If it can do more than 2TB then it should be able to go all the way up to 24TB or 60TB or whatever the new maximum capacity is.
I already own 3TB drives, which are incompatible with most of my equipment.

last edited by thermite at 17:06:05 12/Jan/12
05:03pm 12/01/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
584 posts
I've got 4 x 3TB drives in mine and it has worked fine.
05:10pm 12/01/12 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
4079 posts
if anyone is after memory I have 2gb modules that should work in these servers.

http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1462338116
05:13pm 12/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20354 posts
Nice one, cheers teq :D

I might finally get one!
05:16pm 12/01/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12270 posts
The maximum hard drive capacity this thing takes is 2 GB per hard drive. This is unacceptable to me, and should be unacceptable to you.


I've got 15TB in mine ..
05:18pm 12/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20355 posts
Viper i am keen for some more RAM, how many do you have?
05:21pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8679 posts
Hmm, alright that makes two of you, I wonder why they keep stating 2TB over and over? Really put me off.

The only other feature I'd prefer a more expensive NAS for is the ability to automatically adjust the raid configuration based on how many drives are in, and allow any drive to be swapped for a larger drive and expand the raid magically into that space. Does it do that?

05:24pm 12/01/12 Permalink
kappa
Brisbane, Queensland
1752 posts
Is that hot swapping? Then no I don't think so.
05:27pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3906 posts
Does it do that?
These devices are software RAID, so whether it does that or not depends on what software you use.
05:28pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8680 posts
I don't know of any software that can do that, I heard freenas can't do it. It seems to be the feature the expensive ones lord over everyone with.

How difficult is it to expand the raid manually with the setups you guys have? Do you have to backup, wipe it, and start over?


last edited by thermite at 17:32:15 12/Jan/12
05:30pm 12/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20356 posts
So now that I have purchase one, someone recommend good 3TB drives to go in this sucker.


Thanks :)
05:39pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12560 posts
it's not difficult at all with linux software raid, no you don't have to wipe it/start over but backing up anything important when resizing is a good idea just in case. regardless of what solution you use
05:40pm 12/01/12 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
4080 posts
Viper i am keen for some more RAM, how many do you have?


I have 6 of them.
05:54pm 12/01/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
585 posts
Windows Home Server (not 2011) allowed you to do that through drive extender but for WHS 2011 Microsoft removed that functionality. It seems though that they have included it for Windows 8 called Storage Spaces

As for drives, I put the Hitachi 3TB 5400RPM drives in mine. I went for the 5400's instead of teh 7200 as heat and energy efficiency was a higher priority for me than performance.
05:55pm 12/01/12 Permalink
gamer
2220 posts
No free Nas cannot perform online raid expansion and never will be able to.

Buy a decent NAS with a decent web management interface like a QNAP and you can do this and no, you won't have to backup your data before you do it... ever...
06:48pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8682 posts
I already bought this one gamer, so I'm gonna pretend I didn't read your post.
06:55pm 12/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
601 posts
I'm running 2x3TB WD Greens (EZRX's from memory) and 2x 3TB Hitachi Deskstars (7k3000's)

Windows only saw them as 2TB partitions, but you change the disk type to MBT from GUID it sees all 3TB (appears as 2.7 :D)
so I might suggest starting there Thermite... unless it's the BIOS that isn't seeing them as 3TBs (in which case a firmware update)

and in my current build I'm dabbling with 'Storage Pooling' using an application called 'Drive Bender'.

As most of the content is expendable (ie if I lost it I could re-download/sneaker-net it) I'm not interested in losing 1/4 of my max capacity to RAID for redundancy, instead, using this application, I can literally nominate a folder (so, my photo's for example) and tell Drive bender to duplicate this folder on all four disks.

Maximising flexibility is the game, and thus far Drive Bender is a gem!
07:01pm 12/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
602 posts
last time I checked gamer, a QNAP that had capable RAID and 4x disk capacity cost 3-4 times as much as one of these.

There are 'alternatives' to running RAID, it really depends on your needs (or wants) from such a device.

My housemate is running one of these as a HTPC and it's capable and quiet (tho blu-tacing over the bright HP logo is recommended) and I'm using mine primarily for storage, but as a little media server (w/12TB of space).

I thoroughly rate the QNAP's for what they are, but we're talking a completely different price point.
07:14pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12123 posts
I already bought this one gamer, so I'm gonna pretend I didn't read your post.

Yeah, it's true. The key is to setup your RAID for a long life-time.
07:14pm 12/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8683 posts
Yeah I don't really need that, it just sounds like a really convenient feature. But hardly worth paying 3-4 times the price.
07:27pm 12/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20360 posts
Damnit HDD prices are on the rise too :/
07:35pm 12/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
603 posts
Damnit HDD prices are on the rise too :/


lolwut!

Not again they aren't... they're *somehwhat* recovered from the Thailand flood... 3TB Hitachi's are ~$170 atm...

WD 2TB's still aren't a great price... $130 (~150+% their 'pre-flood' price...)

(Prices sourced from staticice)

I am still cheering I got the two 3TB WD greens for $120 each tho! (just pre-flood, and admittedly, they aren't warranted as I popped the disks out of the 3.5" USB 2 enclosures the came in...

As much as some dislike Seagate, at least they warrant their HDD's (provide you don't open the actual disk).
08:18pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9684 posts
190 delivered direct from HP. This is not too bad. I have one of mine running WHSv1 and she is going strong.
08:23pm 12/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
604 posts
Skitz, do you have a direct contact or just dialled em and asked?

I ask as I'm eyeballing a N40L for my old man and curious about how much HP are letting them go for...
08:31pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12561 posts
No free Nas cannot perform online raid expansion and never will be able to.
why will it never be able to?

Yeah I don't really need that, it just sounds like a really convenient feature. But hardly worth paying 3-4 times the price.

doesn't matter, was just gamer dribble as usual anyway
qnap's use linux software raid so buying a qnap gives you no additional protection against data loss while doing an online expansion over a microserver running linux software raid. the difference is the qnap gives you a html interface to do it - but it's not like mdadm is complicated or undocumented. it's very easy to use

I've resized partitions/filesystems/linuxraid online several times and never had data loss from it yet, but the fact that the userland tools warn you in capital letters that you should back up your data as there's a risk of losing it, indicates to me that it's a possible risk. so if you have some important data on the array, you should back it up before you resize or migrate it
09:03pm 12/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4651 posts
Ive got 5 x 3TB and they are fine!

I bought mine when $AUD was good and paid roughly $120 each including shipping bought them from the US.

I highly rate the QNAP as well but this cost $200 + $60 for 4gb ram compared to over $1000 for 5-bay NAS Server.

Had freenas on it but now formatting it this weekend and putting on Ubuntu + raid mdadm
10:41pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9686 posts
Skitz, do you have a direct contact or just dialled em and asked?

I ask as I'm eyeballing a N40L for my old man and curious about how much HP are letting them go for...


I got in and got them at that price with a tech code that was HP only ;) It's well and truly over. $200 + is the best you will get them these days.
11:51pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12126 posts
Had freenas on it but now formatting it this weekend and putting on Ubuntu + raid mdadm

What's the reasons for this?

Also, what the hell did you do with all the data to be able to reformat!?
11:51pm 12/01/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3907 posts
No free Nas cannot perform online raid expansion and never will be able to.
why will it never be able to?
FreeNAS (that is, the free software product of that name) is based on FreeBSD and uses ZFS. I cant figure out if it supports the equivalent of "mdadm --grow" that linux-based systems can do, although given all the "ZFS is awesome!" stuff you see around, you would think it could...
09:02am 13/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4652 posts
What's the reasons for this?

Also, what the hell did you do with all the data to be able to reformat!?


I didnt like Freenas found that SAMBA would sometimes die/crash and so would SABNZB, also i want to do more with my server then just basic freenas stuff, eg plex media server and down track try other things. i only had 1.6TB used on the drive so i moved around on external drives i have and also borrowed some from work :)
09:09am 13/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20370 posts
Mine says it has been shipped, sweet :)
10:35am 13/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12155 posts
Mine says it has been shipped, sweet :)

Likewise.
12:27am 14/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5325 posts
Running 3 atm 2 x n36l and 1 x n40l

Using the n40l at work for offsite storage
09:06pm 14/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12169 posts
Does anyone run a server under their house (i.e., in a potentially dusty environment?)

I assume that would be possible somehow with the right kind of enclosure.
10:05am 15/01/12 Permalink
gamer
2223 posts
although given all the "ZFS is awesome!" stuff you see around, you would think it could...


Wrong.

10:17am 15/01/12 Permalink
Eds
Brisbane, Queensland
9888 posts
ZFS can do it.

I have QNAP's at home and a lot of people have brought in these from work, fantastic little device that will do pretty much everything the qnap will do if you configure it properly.
10:21am 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5328 posts
The implementation of ZFS in freenas does not support autoexpand pool from memory think you need at least v28 upwards for it

It is possible to swap a drive to a larger drive and resilver (repair) the zpool. If this procedure is repeated for every disk in a vdev, then the zpool will grow in capacity when the last drive is resilvered.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

Configuration at work 4x750GB raidz pool then my rpool is on 2x250GB mirror I can drop new drives in and resilver them but I have to upgrade the entire pool.

At home the configuration is different currently its 4x2TB 1x250GB on a BR10i which I need to rebuild if I want my proper configuration which will be. 6x2TB RAIDz2 os on USB 2x SSD for L2arc and ZIL

Its running on Solairs Express 11 with NAPP-IT which owns for my needs. And its all rsync'd to my clearOS server which runns 6x1TB lvm raid 5

Its a shame the BR10i does not support 3TB drives =( I could buy an LSI2008 based card to replace it easier enough though. Its easy for me to say all of this though since I have backups living on two other servers and some people don't have that luxury

I have to say running ZFS on the microservers has been awesome so far but really I would like to run some bigger vdev 16+ in a norco and sell up the microservers to fund it

I wouldn't bother looking at freenas again. Outgrown it and anything tricky I prefer to run on clearos / centos since I know bugger all about unix really






last edited by HerbalLizard at 11:05:27 15/Jan/12

last edited by HerbalLizard at 11:05:50 15/Jan/12
11:03am 15/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12563 posts
Wrong.


it's not wrong actually - it's quite reasonable to think that it could, the way people rave about it

also, there's no apparent reason to claim that freenas will never support online expansion either
11:30am 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5329 posts
Its because of the version of zfs that freenas is running jim which is not a fault of zfs by itself
12:24pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12564 posts
yeh but my point is, how does that mean that it 'will never support' ? I mean, isn't it extremely common for software to get upgraded and have additional features added to it? particularly features that alternate solutions already support?

I guess I'm just getting trolled bigtime by gamer
12:41pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5330 posts
More than likely the snails pace that the project is running on, then there is the forks and disruptions to the project.

There is also the fact that its running version 15 of ZFS and newer versions of zfs support allot of the s*** that people of moaning about. Add to this the c***bags at orcale won't release post v30 code ever, and implementation of later versions of ZFS on freenas may never see the light of day for this reason.

Hence it never will... on freenas. But it does on other platforms

01:49pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5331 posts
Some of you might want to check out nexentacore + napp-it (its basically open solaris and ubuntu jammed together) runs v26 of ZFS

There is some nice storage porn for porn storage on
http://www.rackmountpro.com/


last edited by HerbalLizard at 14:01:22 15/Jan/12
01:58pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12171 posts
More than likely the snails pace that the project is running on, then there is the forks and disruptions to the project.

There is also the fact that its running version 15 of ZFS and newer versions of zfs support allot of the s*** that people of moaning about. Add to this the c***bags at orcale won't release post v30 code ever, and implementation of later versions of ZFS on freenas may never see the light of day for this reason.

Hence it never will... on freenas. But it does on other platforms

This was my thinking when I commented.

So I'm still waiting to get mine. Currently thinking Ubuntu will go on it. Any advantage to CentOS/ClearOS?
02:03pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5332 posts
None really
02:12pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Eds
Brisbane, Queensland
9889 posts
You could always consider running Server 2008R2 on it as well. Guy at work has it running pretty snappy in regards to file transfers.
03:15pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20426 posts
What's the best, newb friendly OS to put on these things, all I want it to do is work - doesn't need any fancy stats, or tracking or monitoring etc.

Disk speed doesn't even need to be super fast, I'll be dumping a bunch of data on it initially and then there will be some incremental data dumps but nothing major.

Should I even bother with *nix or look at windows options?
03:18pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Eds
Brisbane, Queensland
9890 posts
For you heardy, I would throw some more RAM in it and wack windows on it.
Only because you would be in a semi familiar environment
03:20pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20427 posts
Yeh I have 2 x 2gb sticks inbound.

I take it Windows raid is inferior to *nix raid?

I have a few mates that have half a clue, maybe I'll let them built me a *nix raid machine hehe
03:23pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5336 posts
Drive up here supply beer and I will do it for you
03:35pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12179 posts
To try to answer my own question one suggestion I've found is to use one of these: http://www.dirtbag.biz/covers/tower.html

I want to put this comp under the house - it's very dry, but dusty.
07:53pm 15/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5337 posts
Pinky that looks like an awesome idea which could double as an oven bag
08:30pm 15/01/12 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
2697 posts
which one did you guys buy?

HP 658553-371 ProLiant N40L MicroServer or HP 633724-011 ProLiant N36L MicroServer

thinking of grabbing the N40L and putting 4 x HDD in with some more RAM. I want
1 - Movies
1 - TV
1 - Music
1 - Images

is this viable with the N40L?
09:31pm 15/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12181 posts
is this viable with the N40L?

Absolutely.

No idea what I've bought, but I assume the N36L. Both are suited to those tasks.

Just keep in mind it's not a friendly NAS off the shelf like a QNAP or one of the simpler Netgear ReadyNAS options which are all set up, ready to go with nice web-server menus to manage drives and so on - it will take a bit of setting up.
10:50pm 15/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8700 posts
This is pretty gay, paid for this on the 12th, and it's still marked "Waiting for payment".
11:31am 16/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4659 posts
what video cards do u recommend for these things???
01:40pm 16/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
633 posts
No idea what I've bought, but I assume the N36L. Both are suited to those tasks.

Just keep in mind it's not a friendly NAS off the shelf like a QNAP or one of the simpler Netgear ReadyNAS options


The N40 has a newer CPU('0.2GHz faster from memory) and as a 'stock option' seems to come with 2GB of RAM (instead of 1GB in the N36).

Not a HUGE difference so I wouldn't lose sleep if you've got a N36 in the mail.
And Pinky, whilst you're correct in saying 'there's a bit of setting up to do' it's by no means dramatic.

The benefit in the 'burden of setting it up yourself' is that you can choose what it's capable of, or not as the case may be.

I recommend a Half height nVidia GT210 as a minimum for a video card if you want to use it as a HTPC. You'll get your Audio AND video from the HDMI port on the back. It works well, but has a few minor limitations.

n.b. tread carefully when choosing a video card for them. If it doesn't have HDMI out you'll need to buy a PCIe 1x Sound card to suit. Also steer clear of 'passive cooling' video cards as the heatsinks are usually waaaaaaaay too big for the room in that case.

There's a very extensive set of threads over at the "Overclockers Australia"(OCAU) forum, called something along the lines of 'The HP Microserver Owner's club' and much the same plenty of chatter on Whirlpool about a WIDE variety of setups, and quick/simple mods to boost the capacities of this versatile, cheap platform.
01:51pm 16/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12195 posts
And Pinky, whilst you're correct in saying 'there's a bit of setting up to do' it's by no means dramatic.

Yeah, you're right.

I did think this when considering my post later. For the mentioned uses you could chuck FreeNAS on and call it a day - it's not exactly an insurmountable obstacle!
05:06pm 16/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8713 posts
Got mine today, f*** it's huge, like 3 times bigger than it looks on the internet
10:28am 17/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12205 posts
Yours said "waiting for payment" and you still received it before I did :(

Yeah, that's why I want to put mine under the house. Going to try one of those dust bags, haha. Not holding my breath but I've read a fair few posts from people who have used them successfully.
10:31am 17/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12566 posts
I find it to be a very quiet unit though, there's no way in hell I can hear it over my desktop's video card fan, in fact when I did the setup on it I sat it in the loungeroom and used the tv as a monitor cos I didn't want to hijack my computer's monitor - and it was actually even quieter than the zotac I use as a htpc, even when the disks are being used

I know what you mean about huge compared to the internet pics, it's easy to get the wrong idea - but given that it has 5 drive bays and is a robust build, it's not a huge system at all - quite compact.
11:09am 17/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8714 posts
11:39am 17/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12241 posts
Received mine today, FYI. Quick service IMO. No complaints about MegaBuy (yet...)
02:16pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12658 posts
Pretty easy to get a sense of the scale from the optical drive slot/region. For all it's functions, I don't think that I'd want it to be any smaller in volume, but perhaps it would be better if it was a bit shorter in height and longer in depth so that it would fit into more tv units.

Would also be good if there was a version without the optical drive space I suppose. I actually have a dvd drive in mine, but I think I've used it maybe twice.
02:23pm 18/01/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
35475 posts
Anyone checked how much power it draws while idling?
02:27pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12242 posts
Anyone checked how much power it draws while idling?

Nah, but I have a thingy to do that and it's on my to-do list. My ReadyNAS NV+ draws about 45W max, for reference, but can idle at 36W for lengthy periods for some reason - maybe some power saving feature, I have no idea.

Meanwhile I found this pretty handy site: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+Neo+N36L+Dual-Core
02:40pm 18/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4664 posts
can anyone help how to install ubuntu on USB disk? Will this work or will the server run too slow??? i have 16gb USB stick which i can use.

then i want to install native zfs, samaba ftp server, itunes server etc
03:22pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12571 posts
installing the o/s onto a usb stick works fine, the server will boot a little slower (mine still boots quite quickly) than a faster drive, and intensive disk operations (on the usb stick of course, not on the hard drives) will be slower - for example, if I do package updates, the rpm processing and extraction is noticeably slower than it would be if I installed to a hdd instead of the usb stick.

However, most things you log in to do are no different because they're done in memory, not directly off the usb stick - imo installing to a usb stick is a really good option. And it's easy to turn it off, remove the stick and take an image of it as a backup in case the usb stick s**** itself.


As for help installing ubuntu on a usb stick, there's several good articles on it in the ubuntu community - google
03:34pm 18/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4665 posts
thanks jim, so what i just did was mount the ISO on 4gb usb stick then did install on the 16gb disk, seems to running its a little slow i installed ubuntu desktop and not server as i wanted the GUI
03:40pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12573 posts
yeh if you're going to be using the server as a desktop type thing and hitting the o/s disk a lot (the usb stick) you might not like it so much

in my case, it's a samba/iscsi server only - it has linux on it and no gui at all. it's rarely rebooted and the o/s rarely changes, so it hardly ever uses the usb stick once booted up, other than some minor logging
03:47pm 18/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4666 posts
pretty much just wanna run plex, sabnzb couch potato and sick beard
04:12pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12250 posts
Anyone checked how much power it draws while idling?

It uses 3W when in stand-by mode (i.e., if you want it sitting there waiting for Wake-on-LAN operation) and 33W running in the default config (one 250GB HDD and no video card or other peripherals).
05:26pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12576 posts
pretty much just wanna run plex, sabnzb couch potato and sick beard

usb stick should still be ok, but I would probably recommend having that software keep their databases on your array, not on the usb stick - might get a bit annoying waiting for the slow usb i/o when updating/browsing your media library or that type of thing
05:29pm 18/01/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12302 posts
i wouldn't run anything more than a freenas type install off a usb stick, i tried running debian etch off mine and it was pretty painful
Plex is fairly intensive with its media manager database so I would avoid it, just stick it on its own OS drive if you have one laying around

I just threw a 5th drive in where the optical drive would otherwise go
05:34pm 18/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20441 posts
Mine arrived today...

Await the help my server doesn't work post :P


p.s. looking into on weekend so it'll probably be Sunday when I ask for help hehe
06:52pm 18/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8729 posts
What am I supposed to do with the little hard drive that came with it :/ I paid for that.
07:25pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12582 posts
yeh kind of annoying, if I'd had 5 1/4 inch brackets handy I'd have just used it as the o/s drive probably
07:44pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12251 posts
yeh kind of annoying, if I'd had 5 1/4 inch brackets handy I'd have just used it as the o/s drive probably

That's a good idea. I will do that.
11:09pm 18/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12586 posts
actually on second thoughts I'd probably just keep using the usb stick for the o/s, and just make my array one drive larger =]
11:36pm 18/01/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4668 posts
yeah thats teh best way i got 5x3tb and its perfect!
12:47pm 19/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
663 posts
over on OCAU there are a few guys who have bought a bracket for the 5 1/4" drive bay that allows them to hook up a slim optical drive and 2x 2.5" HDD's (unsure how they're running the two extra SATA devices, prolly a PCIe 1x Sata controller)

for what it is, the flexibility of the platform is quite impressive. I couldn't reasonably recommend a NAS to someone so long as these are available (aside from hooking my non-nerdy mates by recommending Routers that support a USB Storage device.)
04:29pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12271 posts
Hey HeardY, how'd you go with `ViPER`'s RAM? No joy here.

The RAM `ViPER` sent was 2Rx8 10600R which operates at 1333MHz, whereas the board only supports 800MHz.

Hmm, they are selling that RAM here for the N36L though: http://www.arbeitsspeicher-guenstig.de/HP-Compaq-ProLiant-Microserver-N36L
07:00pm 19/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20450 posts
I haven't looked at it yet, that's a weekend job.

damn if it doesn't work that sucks.

But surely the 1gb it came with would be enough, the server will sit dormant most of the time...
07:02pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12272 posts
When I turn it on with the 1333MHz RAM the "HP" light on the front flashes red once (instead of blue) and it doesn't post. The network light flashes though as normal and the power stays on.

According to this and the brief brochure provided with the server that light is the "Health LED" and can show blue, amber or red. Red is critical system issue.
07:20pm 19/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20451 posts
Heh, that sucks.

Ahh well, just sent them back to `VIPER I guess....
07:30pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12273 posts
Yeah will do a bit more research. I tried one stick in each slot and two sticks, but no joy :'(
07:37pm 19/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20453 posts
Cool, saves me being the guinea pig :P

Keep us posted :)
07:42pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12276 posts
Well, I'm at a loss. As far as I can tell the RAM should be fine. I found this post:

http://serverfault.com/questions/222207/hp-dl160-g6-memory-pc3-10600r-vs-pc3-10600e

The memory that was installed was 10600E and the memory that Viper sent was 10600R.

As far as I can tell the RAM speed shouldn't be an issue.

See this post: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?s=de0f8fc77cd1afc3a648bb21dfcbc358&p=13197579&postcount=297
11:24pm 19/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20458 posts
The RAM could just be f***ed...
11:39pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12277 posts
Nah, it's pretty clear it just doesn't work with 'registered' memory :( I found this post in German:

Im "HP ProLiant MicroServer Installationsblatt" steht auf Seite 5 unter "Richtlinien zur Installation von Speichermodulen" als erster Punkt: "Verwenden Sie nur von HP unterstützte ungepufferte ECC DDR3 DIMMs mit einer Kapazität von 1, 2 oder 4 GB."

Der HP MicroServer N36L unterstützt keinen "registered" Speicher, darum bekommst du auch kein Bild.

Which says the same thing.

:'(

Also comments on: http://blog.warcom.com.au/blogs/hp-microserver-n36l-compatible-upgrades/

Registered RAM is not supported. Only ECC on-buffered will work on N36L and N40L. Don't know why this is listed here :-(

Another one: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=13579757&postcount=3652

And here: http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/HP_Microserver

Memory type

PC3 DDR3 - ECC Unregistered or non ECC. Registered ECC *NOT* supported

That sucks more d*** than Bonertron69, eh? Back to the drawing board.
11:52pm 19/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12305 posts
Ok dudes - I want to take Jim's approach and put a USB key in the internal slot on the mobo. I need to buy a USB key though - what's the go with speeds these days? Can someone recommend me a suitable USB key?
11:28pm 20/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8752 posts
I got this lexar echo xz, not sure if it's any good, they wrote some speeds on the packet so I guess they were proud of it. I just like that it's small incase there is a space issue or it winds up having to plug into the front.

http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/011/174/409/trimmed/11174704_14975409_trimmed.jpg


I wanted this

http://zapp5.staticworld.net/images/article/2011/12/smallest_usbstick-6956377.jpg
http://www.pcworld.com/article/246879/worlds_smallest_usb_stick_fits_flush_to_your_computer.html
12:59am 21/01/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12325 posts
Ok dudes - I want to take Jim's approach and put a USB key in the internal slot on the mobo. I need to buy a USB key though - what's the go with speeds these days? Can someone recommend me a suitable USB key?


http://jack.unix.org.au/~brett/images/micro/micro1.JPG

at the time of purchasing that key it was one of the faster ones
I still wouldn't recommend it unless you're doing very little i/o or interactive things with it

if its just sitting in the background processing something or other, like a nas box, it'll be fine

With transfer rates of 34MBps and 28MBps for reads and writes

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/24/corsair-flash-survivor-gtr-keeps-up-enduring-tradition-of-rugged/
01:06am 21/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12589 posts
heh same one I have
02:12am 21/01/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5348 posts
You could also use one of the esata based ones
09:30am 21/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20463 posts
I have a couple of these - http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=7&catid=86&prodgroupid=181&id=980&type=11

27MB read
25MB write

I am sure it'll be fine for the job
10:04am 21/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12310 posts
Thanks team-QGL.

@teq, I'm just going to use it as a NAS for work file storage, so that setup will be fine.
10:48am 21/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8754 posts
Still haven't quite decided what to do with this yet, whether to use it as my backup strategy for my existing 10TB of primary storage on external drives, or to actually extend my primary storage onto it. I don't think I can deprecate any of my current external drives as they're attached to the computers that use them the most and those computers are on a wireless g network which sucks and nothing I can do about that till I move later in the year.

Look what this guy did:

http://www.stanzabike.net/images/CSE-M14TB/IMG_0537.jpg

I found it in this awesome page someone mentioned earlier:
HP ProLiant MicroServer Owners Club!
under 'additional esata'
02:26pm 21/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12315 posts
I don't get it thermite - what's the point of doing that?

Also, anyone using the 5th SATA port it apparently doesn't run at full speed without this BIOS update: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=13179181&postcount=77
04:07pm 21/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8756 posts
more space I guess
05:16pm 21/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12323 posts
When they say you can 'put up to four Gigabit ethernet ports' into it - why would you do that? Can you somehow have four ethernet ports on say two computers and hence transfer data at four times the speed (or whatever less, subsequent to the laws of physics)?

I've always wondered about that.
10:02pm 21/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12590 posts
you can aggregate nics into teams/bonds/channels to achieve greater-than-single-nic speeds yeh, but with certain limitations and caveats, depending on the configuration you go with

there's two main ways I'm aware of to do it:

- switch-assisted, where the switch requires configuration in conjunction with the nic driver configuration (such as 802.3ad)
- various modes of non switch-assisted

nearly all of them will never allow you to get greater than a single nic's worth of speed for a single tcp conversation though - however these are still very useful for situations where you have a one-to-many scenario such as a data server with multiple clients connecting. the server could have several gbit nics in it, and each client could theoretically get gbit speeds from the server at once (one client via each nic) and distribution across the server nics is typically done with some sort of hash/xor of the mac, or ip, or ip+port depending on which configuration you choose

the only way (that I'm aware) of getting a single tcp conversation to traverse multiple nics at the 'same' time is to use the linux bonding driver in round-robin mode, where each nic will continually be arping, causing the packets to continually go in and out of different nics. this mode breaks the IEEE standard I think, due to packets potentially arriving out of order. actually some of the 802.3ad settings break the 802.3ad standard for the same reason as well, I think

I've done a LOT of testing of the various modes prior to our launching the mammothvps platform - it was of particular interest to us so we could hopefully achieve good iscsi speed with low-cost hardware. unfortunately the round-robin mode seemed to make the netgear switches we were using at the time, cranky and misbehave after some time so we ended up doing away with it and reverted to a combination of active/passive nic teams, and 802.3ad/etherchannel and gave up on trying to get greater-than-gbit for a single connection. it can possibly be done with the right combination of switches and configuration settings but it was more important for us to just be rid of issues and revert to something a bit simpler for the sake of network stability. it's a shame, cos initial tests using ipperf showed us maxing out a team of 4 gbit nics with a single tcp session, from multiple clients to/from a server with 10 gbit nics in it - so assuming we ever had a server with the i/o to max that out, we'd have potentially had a nice setup

some info on the linux bonding driver here: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/bonding

nic teaming is not limited to linux though, intel and hp for example offer the same or similar features with their windows drivers, possibly others
12:39am 22/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12330 posts
Interesting, thanks for the info Jim.

At least from my perspective your info clearly shows it's a headache and I shouldn't attempt it :P Haha
12:54am 22/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12591 posts
oh and I forgot another probably more common reason for teaming nics - high-availability

we've been doing this for many years now with active/backup mode (other modes do provide HA too though), having each nic wired to a different switch in a switch stack - the object there being if a nic/cable/switch dies, the host doesn't lose network connectivity because the driver monitors the links and upon failure of the active nic, switches to the backup - usually with nothing but a brief pause in network traffic

this has been very reliable for us, practically trouble-free - with the linux bonding driver, and also the hp and intel drivers on windows
01:00am 22/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12332 posts
Ok, cool. Good to know. Never used that feature either.
01:19am 22/01/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20465 posts
I don't think the unit is that big at all... just picked it up yesterday and am happy with the size.

I have no time to play with it just yet, hopefully later tonight.
04:10pm 22/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8794 posts
OK well I've found a small IKEA tool that might unscrew that f*****g hard drive.

One thing I didn't think of, is keyboard mouse and monitor. How are you guys working around this problem?

Ideally I wouldn't want to attach a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. I want to walk up to it like Rodney McKay with a tablet, and somehow tap tap tap, things get done.

http://www.hishgraphics.com/blog/images/sga-tablet01.jpg

I don't own a tablet.
05:16pm 25/01/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12374 posts
thermite you're not talking about the tool inside the door area you? above the extra HDD screws for the remaining empty bays..

I work around the "problem" of using a keyboard and mouse by using remote desktop or vnc
06:12pm 25/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12395 posts
thermite, what O/S did you install? Should be able to disable the 'no keyboard' issue if your server isn't starting up.

If you really need to administer it with a GUI rather than via SSH then install VNC as teq suggests.

Just some info - I installed latest Ubuntu on my mine onto the 250GB HDD it came with (from a USB key) and then moved that drive to the optical drive bay using a mount bracket, and installed 4x 1GB drives into the HDD bays and the thing booted straight up into Ubuntu no drama at all. I.e., No BIOS update as I wrote above (maybe these ones have the updated BIOS is my guess).

Edit: I'm using same approach as Jim. Mine is sitting inside a cupboard tucked away.
06:32pm 25/01/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12602 posts
I plugged a keyboard and screen into mine for the setup and now it just sits there doing it's thing
can log into it with ssh if something needs doing
06:49pm 25/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
683 posts
I bought a logi K400 (link below) from officejerks pricematching (-5%).

I typically use it as a remote device but if I *need* keyb/mouse, I plug in the unifying adapter this comes with, and bam, keyboard and mouse.

Word of warning to others... the 'scratch pad' on the k400 feels like an old laptop... if I had to suggest an all-in-one option to use day to day, this wouldn't be it.

http://www.logitech.com/en-au/keyboards/keyboard/devices/8276
08:31pm 25/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8795 posts
thermite you're not talking about the tool inside the door area you? above the extra HDD screws for the remaining empty bays..


OMG THANK YOU
08:37pm 25/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12396 posts
OMG THANK YOU

lol, seems like he was...

How many times has the whole 'screws inside the door of your NAS' thing actually caught people out I wonder. Must be a lot.
08:39pm 25/01/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12376 posts
heh I posted this image the last thread too

http://jack.unix.org.au/~brett/images/screws.jpg
08:48pm 25/01/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6095 posts
wow, thats awesome!
08:54pm 25/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8796 posts
oh wow I still didn't spot the row of screws at the bottom. I have very poor lighting.
Even when you said there's a tool in the door, I took a quick glance, nope, and proceeded to open up the whole box and starting poking my fingers everywhere trying to find a little plastic bag or something containing the tool.

I'm not even gonna say how long it took me to figure out that the lever goes down AFTER you push the drive in, I thought the sata things at the back were bent.
10:11pm 25/01/12 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
1922 posts
you guys probably already explained, but what are you using this for? i'm tempted to get one as a nas/media centre solution but still need more convincing.
10:38pm 25/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12399 posts
oh wow I still didn't spot the row of screws at the bottom. I have very poor lighting.

Farkn candles eh? Romantic though.
you guys probably already explained, but what are you using this for? i'm tempted to get one as a nas/media centre solution but still need more convincing.

I'm using mine in a 2TB RAID-1 (mirroring) config just as a fileserver for work files. Lower power option than firing up our main server which is used for analysis.

As a NAS it's a cheap option. Would definitely recommend. Just chuck a few 7200rpm drives in it and away you go.
10:51pm 25/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2615 posts
I am looking to grab one of these quick smart - is there a store I can walk-in and grab one or do I need to use megabuy and wait for delivery? Need one operational quick smart so I dont want to wait for delivery etc etc.
09:23pm 30/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8820 posts
Megabuy are based in north brisbane I guess you could call them and impart your desperate urgency?
09:42pm 30/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2616 posts
Ah north Brisbane? That's handy. Perhaps they offer some form of express post. Shame you can't pickup as I'm northside as well.

Cheers therm
09:53pm 30/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2617 posts
Megabuy website says delivery 1 - 3 days. Is this accurate? If that's the case that will do fine.
10:15pm 30/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12439 posts
I think mine took around 4 days andrewus. Wouldn't buy if you're in a hurry - they have quite a bit of negative publicity regarding delivery. My experience was top notch though.
11:17pm 30/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2618 posts
Yeah but any attempts to find another reseller in bris have failed...
11:22pm 30/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2619 posts
31/01/2012 Confirming Payment Order has been Received, Waiting to Confirm Payment
31/01/2012 Processing Payment Received and Confirmed. Processing Order


Ordered today before lunch. With any luck they stick to the 1 - 3 day delivery and it shall be in my hands by weeks end. .. With any luck.
04:26pm 31/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12448 posts
Yep, you'll be right. As soon as payment was 'confirmed' they posted it for me.
04:39pm 31/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2620 posts
Hah just found out they are based in Strathpine. A few days to go 3 suburbs? haha surely!
04:56pm 31/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8825 posts
I bet you'll get it on thursday.

Anyone want to bet earlier/later?
05:00pm 31/01/12 Permalink
jmr
Brisbane, Queensland
7562 posts
$5 on wednesday
05:02pm 31/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2621 posts
Yeah North Lakes is easily a 2 day drive from Strathpine - Ill go with thursday also haha.

Can I clear something up, their website says they use a courier. So I NEED to be home to receive it correct? And if I shoot out and miss them.. anyone aware of the follow up procedure?
05:08pm 31/01/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
9990 posts
Yeah I ordered something else from megabuy on thursday and it arrived today (a bit slow imo) and i'm same distance from strathpine as you andrewus. they use star trek as their couriers - and i rolled up home at the same time as the guy was about to leave - with leaving me a note and not the package.
05:27pm 31/01/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8826 posts
andrewus; not sure where you work, but I always get stuff sent to work, because at least *someone* will be there.
05:39pm 31/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2622 posts
yeah mate work for myself from home so I guess I just try to be here for the next 3 days straight...
05:51pm 31/01/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2624 posts
The status of your Megabuy Pty Ltd Order #142757 has been changed to Shipped.
8:51am this morning.

I am guessing it would go back to the central location of the couriers and then out from there.


Despatch Date
Wednesday, 1 February 2012

Arrival Date
Thursday, 2 February 2012


Star Track Couriers have $5 on Thursday it seems..
12:47pm 01/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2205 posts
I like startrack, have sent thousand of pallets with them and only had a couple very small problems.
12:56pm 01/02/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
9993 posts
Yeah I don't think startrek is the problem in this instance, i think it's all megabuy internal un-promptness
03:16pm 01/02/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2625 posts
ahh been out all day as I assumed delivery tomorrow. Missed the courier who in fact did come today. How depressing lol.
Now I have to contact him during work hours to arrange delivery time. jmr up a fiver for picking the winning bet of wednesday!
07:04pm 01/02/12 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
1924 posts
what OS u guys using?
08:33pm 02/02/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4693 posts
freenas 7
08:51pm 02/02/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12614 posts
centos6
09:13pm 02/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12717 posts
Latest Ubuntu Desktop (11?) and a Win 7 VM running on Virtualbox
09:31pm 02/02/12 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
2758 posts
PC User mag have been providing their version of server software called UserOS Home Server.

haven't tried it yet but the latest version is on the cover disk for Feb edition.
09:43pm 02/02/12 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
1925 posts
yeah i'm pretty bad at this. looking for a simple os/software to make one a file server, download centre, (sabnzbd, bitorrent, etc.) and possibly a print server.

what do you guys recommend?
09:54pm 02/02/12 Permalink
andrewus
Brisbane, Queensland
2627 posts
This one is just for a customer for basic backups so I will be rolling win7 on it for ease of use for them. Simple for the customer hopefully equals simple for me!
11:28pm 02/02/12 Permalink
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