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Political Thread 3
Mantra
Crusty old man
Other International
3076 posts
Lot of European countries with "Medicare for all" the same colour as the US on that map vash.

Do try to make one post which is not self defeating.


Er... what does that have to do with anything? Late and mishandling of a pandemic isn't going to be fixed by "medicare for all". However, it would certainly help?.. surely?!

It feels like it's an especially bad self own when it's a picture though.


Still not seeing the especially bad self own, enlighten me.
01:30am 27/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4066 posts
Er... what does that have to do with anything? Late and mishandling of a pandemic isn't going to be fixed by "medicare for all". However, it would certainly help?.. surely?!


The Medicare for all point relates to mortality rates and the US is doing ok on that point. Although it also relates to an interesting point about testing and the reality of physically making the tests. People can't have a yooman right to something that doesn't exist.

And as for the picture, firstly number of cases is less important than how well a country deals with the cases it has, and secondly if the US was doing especially badly it would be a lot worse than countries of comparable wealth. And it is not. It's tracking about the same as western Europe.

So either all of western Europe bungled their response or the US is doing ok.

It would be particularly interesting to see what happens to that map we you take New York's numbers out.
06:59am 27/04/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41464 posts
yes, will be installing app, everyone in my family here will be.

we're super isolated anyway, but i think its a useful use of my data and i'd certainly want to know if i could have been possibly exposed to someone who is sick.
07:05am 27/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39969 posts
Read a lot of stuff on how cases per million people is not an especially useful metric, because it's bound by the amount of testing being done. i.e., if you're not testing at scale, you might show a low case number.

There was a very compelling argument (that I can't remember the details of) which was "cases per 1000 tests done", which made the data more revealing because it helped control for the scale of testing. (S Korea was at the top, US was 2nd or 3rd last, UK was last, in the data I saw).

(wb Mantra!)
08:01am 27/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39970 posts
On Covidsafe app - here is a technical teardown of the Android app. Not a complete analysis but it's a good start.

the tldr is it works pretty much as advertised.
08:03am 27/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
853 posts
What do our resident socialists think of the fact that US hospitals get paid per Chinese virus case reported and per ventilator required? Reckon this has any effect on reporting, or everyone who runs hospitals are complete angels and the tiktok stupidity is just overworked nurses blowing off steam on extremely expensive hardware?
03:59pm 27/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27004 posts
Congrats on confirming your status as the dumbest piece of s*** on here by being the first to use the term chinese virus.
04:12pm 27/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24654 posts
Is "Made in China" OK?
05:47pm 27/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
854 posts
fpot bites on even the most obvious of bait. I can't make it more low-IQ save outright saying "this is for fpots frothing" upfront.
03:54pm 28/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27005 posts
fpot bites on even the most obvious of bait. I can't make it more low-IQ save outright saying "this is for fpots frothing" upfront.
This is known as the puppet master defense. Pretending that you've somehow trapped a person into a response with wit and guile is how a narcissist will trick themselves into thinking they haven't just said something really dumb. This sort of thinking helps when you're running from the truth.
04:50pm 28/04/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1294 posts
I don't see it called the "Chinese Virus" much but it certainly gets called the "Whu flu" often. I see people call it the "Kung Flu" which seems silly.

I watched what Trump said about the bright light and disinfecting and I think the spin is BS, and what he actually said, in context. was quite reasonable. The spin and the BS is pretty amusing, knowing a great deal of the ADHD tism'ed youth and nutters who actually hate the guy would not even check the source but go with the spin, memes, pretty cartoons and BS cause it fits their narrative.

I recently observed some outstanding social media content from some deeply religious people that was full of"hate" and it was fascinating. To see how much they could express self righteous 'hatred' whilst thumping theory as fact was a concerning experience. They were mostly Americans.. and once again I got to say it...

The interest for me in how or what they vote for in the USA elections is not really of that big a concern for me. I think it's a joke and their nation may be big, but bigger is not always better. I'm glad I do't live there. Generally, I think the various leaders a nation has is a good insight into its people. I think it's appropriate for Americans to be emrassressed by goofs by Trump.. but not to hate him. I think hes just trying to do he's best for the nation, not just himself, as their nation is struggling to come up with really impressive leaders.

Really, Bernie.. Hillary, Trump. Biden, many of the others... They just don't seem to be getting amazing talent. It's their own fault, it's their nation, and it's kind of amusing to watch over the decades.. I thin it's really about Americans coming to grips with the idea that as a nation, they are not as fantastic as they kid themselves. I think we are seeing them slowly come to realise this. Putting a man on the moon and dropping the first nukes in war do not make up for the social and economic issues they have. Issues far worse than ours. We should be very thankful we don't live there... and we do not have the poverty and racial problems they have. We might have that a little bit, but... that place it out off the charts.

So I tend to watch the whole thing with amusement because I think it's better to laugh at it than be emotionally invested in a place that is essentially a war machine.

I do deeply respect what a nation they built in such little time. It's admirable... but somewhere things started to turn, and it wasn't as recent as Trump coming on the scene.

And no fpot, that's not a meltdown, that's a rant.
07:52pm 28/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6652 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
06:29am 29/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39972 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
teehee

still waiting on that Pacific Crest Trail post Scooter
08:56am 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4067 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?


In context it really isn't that crazy. He isn't saying grab some drano and boot up.

And before you jump down my throat. I took 10 seconds to have a look if anyone credentialed had looked into it. Turns out they have.

hydrogen peroxide inhalers actually have been looked at for specifically treating coronavirus.

Another household name for hydrogen peroxide is bleach. Very commonly used as a household disinfectant.

If your objection is the president shouldn't be spit balling on tv then ok. But that's the objection.

As for the sarcasm. Well trolling the media is his past time.
09:33am 29/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27006 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
Well you see he didn't actually say that and it's just the spin that made it look like he said that, despite the video of him clearly saying that.

Prepare yourself for another dishonest pile of word salad in support of this.
01:22pm 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4068 posts
Well you see he didn't actually say that and it's just the spin that made it look like he said that, despite the video of him clearly saying that.

Prepare yourself for another dishonest pile of word salad in support of this.


This what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.

He's mostly just sad he divided 350 twice and got the wrong answer.
01:50pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
157 posts
In context it really isn't that crazy. He isn't saying grab some drano and boot up.

And before you jump down my throat. I took 10 seconds to have a look if anyone credentialed had looked into it. Turns out they have.

hydrogen peroxide inhalers actually have been looked at for specifically treating coronavirus.

Another household name for hydrogen peroxide is bleach. Very commonly used as a household disinfectant.

If your objection is the president shouldn't be spit balling on tv then ok. But that's the objection.

As for the sarcasm. Well trolling the media is his past time.


Are you sure you want to stand by this as an informed statement?
It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


last edited by Fireman Sam at 18:48:26 29/Apr/20
06:42pm 29/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
855 posts
Trump isn't afraid of saying something that might sound dumb because he has already been wildly successful in his life and doesn't need the partisan approval of fungal growths like some people on this forum. That's the long and short of it and that's why successful people are successful and fpot is fpot.
06:47pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6653 posts
Damn, I wish I could be wildly successful enough to get millions of dollars from my father and lose most of it, then bankrupt a casino.
07:40pm 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4069 posts
Are you sure you want to stand by this as an informed statement?
It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


I'm happy for you to explain to me how in the context of presenting research on what kills the virus(which is what was being discussed), why asking if something *like* disinfectant can be used medically is like totally super stupid.

It seems like a perfectly logical follow up question to me.

And as it turns it people are actually independently looking into it. So if it's so stupid step me through why apparently smart people were literally already researching it.
08:50pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1295 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?


Yes, and I think you should check whether he was actually telling / suggesting / instructing them they "should' do. I've worked in RnD for years. You look into anything and everything remotely possible. I think you should read the transcript instead of getting your news from memes and forum comments. Maybe you got your news from "Australia's most trusted news" where they posted "he suggested injecting disinfectant".

An uncle of mne is a professor who specialises in cancer cure research RnD. He's on TV sometimes. They basically look at ways to kill the cancer without killing the person. Lost of it involves poisoning the body, and making variations of of different viruses and existing flus. One of the influenza variant studies was proven beneficial in a type of cancer. So he's team basically f**** around with different types of viruses in laboratories.

I know a doctor who specialises in studies on things like Anthrax. Her and her team basically f**** around with different types of bacteria.

You probably believe WuFlu originated in a wet market and somehow jumped from a bat to a human. You think it's possible a live bat expelled particles from it's tiny lungs that reached human nasal cavity? Or you just don't think much about this stuff unless it's provided in a pretty meme that supports your confirmation bias (Trump hate) or twitter feed with some hashtags. Maybe you prefer the simple explanations like a photo or meme of a chinese woman eating a bat?

It's pretty clear you didn't watch the video or read the transcript including the discussion with the medical professional immediately before the comments that were taken out of context.

There are sites that objectively review the accuracy of news and the skewed sensationalised claims of clickbait news headlines and articles and they pretty much conclude the hype is unwarranted in this case.

I inject oxymetazoline hydrochloride into my body occasionally but not intravenously.

We are in some pretty deep s*** and politicians don't like to induce panic. Overall I think they are downplaying things a bit. On your car you can't treat your dirty air filter by adding stuff to your engine oil, fuel, hydraulic fluid or coolant. The human body is more than the circulatory system. COVID19 appears to be respiratory related. I clearly do not read or hear trump saying anything that resembles get a syringe and inject household disinfectant into your bloodstream. However you can choose to dream that is what he said if your head is stuck far enough up your rectal passage.

My guess is that it's unlikely a pill or syringe stuck in your shoulder will treat the virus. Not within years. If they can get a vaccine for this, then they should effectively have been able to get a vaccine for the common cold. A vaccine for the common cold would have made Big Pharma shareholders very wealthy. So it's not like they haven't ever tried to do something similar in the past. That is why I believe we are in some pretty deep s*** with this one.

Do you know what the Wuhan Laboratory studied?

"Wet market" or "American introduction by military personnel to China" my arse.

Bleat like a sheep and save your tears for November this year... and if Trump gets in again... reach out to https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ or call flight centre and move to one of those economically and socially wonderful marxist nations fpot or vash so easily listed..

Oh I can't find that list... where did it go?
01:03pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6654 posts
“I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So you’re going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s pretty powerful.”


-Trump.

"I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning."

Would you like me to repeat it again?
03:11pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4070 posts
If you could kindly step through what you think
is there a way we can do something like that

means, that would be really helpful.
03:24pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6655 posts
Now who's taking it out of context? Please complete the sentence. "something like that by injection inside"

The 'something like that' he was referring to was the cleaning of surfaces, with disinfectants. He wanted to clean peoples insides, with disinfectant, by injection.
05:44pm 30/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24655 posts
In this lesson of retarded grammar, we learn how asking a hypothetical question can be easily misconstrued as as a definite statement of instruction. chrurrr
05:53pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6656 posts
Even still, someone in that position shouldn't be 'asking a hypothetical' question about injecting disinfectant into people.
06:11pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4071 posts
The 'something like that' he was referring to was the cleaning of surfaces, with disinfectants. He wanted to clean peoples insides, with disinfectant, by injection.


I disagree. I think the 'something like that' is more likely to be referring to the property of disinfectant that
knocks it out in a minute, one minute


Is there something like that you could inject?

I simply don't see how you get to injecting household chlorine bleach from what was said. Or even experimenting with it to be honest. Disinfectants aren't necessarily poisonous to humans so I really don't understand why you'd fill in that blank with an obviously dangerous chemical.
06:45pm 30/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27008 posts
Nmag with the uncle who works at Nintendo. I remember children used to try that one in primary school. Even for someone that age it's a pretty pathetic ploy. I also totes know a doctor who works with anthrax - that will make my bulls*** seem believable!

Ahhh for someone who sees these kinds of people as sport, who gets pleasure from wretched pieces of scum who're forced into this intellectual sunk cost scenario where they've gone all in early and are now forced to defend the man who says magical light and injecting bleach is a good thing is surreal. I'm not going to say it's easy. When they just posted on their My Little Pony incel forums it was okay because they were safely cordoned off from society. Now a talisman of theirs is in power and killing thousands which is actually quite upsetting. They helped that happen.
06:56pm 30/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24656 posts
Despite the hysterical over-reaction to this statement I will admit Trump simply didn't need to even go there. He has no business speculating about experimental medical treatments. It's not the leader's job. He can't resist the camera and microphone. I hope this hit in the chin gets him to zip it for a while so the medical system can do it's thing.

The NY and California governors are sadly f*****g it up so let them stand by their records.
06:56pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6657 posts
Yes, something like that. Something like disinfectant, you could inject straight into people. Don't forget the UV either, get that s*** through the skin! Or inside some other way.
I've never said bleach, your lack comprehension is possibly why you're willing to give Trump a pass on this.

Also, the reason you might be thinking bleach is because that was one of the types of 'disinfectant' they had on screen just before Trump was talking which he was referring to when he said;

I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning.

https://youtu.be/PsQnfpfIa_o?t=1518
06:59pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4072 posts
Yes, something like that. Something like disinfectant, you could inject straight into people.


I read that sentence as saying something other than disinfectant. Something similar but not identical too. Which is the ordinary meaning of the word like.

Are you trying to say you read the grammatical purpose of like in that sentence as specifying disinfectant?

The reason I am talking about bleach is the news story posted to start this conversation which you can see here stated Trump recommended injecting bleach.

But if you are now saying any disinfectant at all you are further and not closer to addressing this point
Disinfectants aren't necessarily poisonous to humans so I really don't understand why you'd fill in that blank with an obviously dangerous chemical.


Can you categorically say there is no 'disinfectant' that may have therapeutic value? If not it seems like a logical thing to look into to me.

Regardless, if the essence of your complaint is this
He has no business speculating about experimental medical treatments


The reason I give him a pass is that I don't particularly care what possible treatments are in the pipeline.

I'll start paying attention when something starts approaching successful clinical trials. But as for what gets a first pass look? Who cares.
07:54pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6658 posts
The reason I am talking about bleach


That's cool. The reason Trump was referring to disinfectant is because it was on the big screen TV moments before he was talking. Then he took a leap from cleaning surfaces to injecting disenfectant into people. Like the ones that he saw on the TV.
08:33pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4073 posts
The reason Trump was referring to disinfectant is because it was on the big screen TV moments before he was talking. Then he took a leap from cleaning surfaces to injecting disenfectant into people. Like the ones that he saw on the TV.


Maybe. But at 30:32 he then goes on to say it wouldn't be through an injection.

I think it is pretty obvious he is talking about whether a disinfectant can have a medical use.

As I've said before. The answer to that question is yes. hydrogen peroxide is a disinfectant and can used in an inhaler to treat respiratory infections.

I am not saying he knew about those. It looks like a thought bubble to me.

But again if your objection is he shouldn't be having thought bubbles during press conferences I can respect that. But I don't care even a little bit. And it is absolutely not recommending self medicating with kitchen cleaners.
09:46pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6659 posts
Oh, that's OK then if he contradicted himself less than 5 minutes later in the same brief. I suppose we see that a lot from political 'leaders' though.
08:11am 01/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39974 posts
The NY and California governors are sadly f*****g it up so let them stand by their records.
I just think the US (and UK) are, basically, screwed.

They f***ed around too long and let it establish too large a beachhead. Their reaction, at all levels of government (but spearheaded by the obviously totally incorrect and clueless pressers from the executive), was too little and too late and now they're just f***ed. Of course it's exacerbated by their size and other factors, but it was made much much worse by the administration casually dismissing it as a concern, in front of the entire nation, repeatedly.

It is not clear to me that they can get their rate under control at this stage. I do not think their political leadership has the will or courage to shut down to the point needed to get it under control.

Prevention is always, always better than the cure and the world is getting a huge object lesson in that at the moment.

I am terrified for the US (I have very close family and many friends there) and all the other countries that have half-assed and continue to half-ass their response. But I am still super worried about Australia. The next few weeks are going to be key. I like the very gradual rollback we're doing, it feels like the right time and the right scale (at least in Qld, haven't looked at what other states are doing). But I'm also sure we're going to see some people that think it's "over" and having parties and risking lives.

Stay distanced! Wear masks! Do everything you can to reduce risk. The harder we push now the more likely it is we'll get out of it soon.
08:43am 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4074 posts
Oh, that's OK then if he contradicted himself less than 5 minutes later in the same brief. I suppose we see that a lot from political 'leaders' though.


If he were talking about some settled policy position then it would be a problem.

But he is talking about possible avenues of experimental research during a press conference dedicated to reporting of experimental research that has been done to date.

In the context in which the conversation was taking place I am really not seeing the issue.

Can you just spell out your objection? Because all I'm hearing is you don't like the president spitballing hypotheticals in press conferences.
10:29am 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24657 posts
I have 3 ply civilian and KN95 masks for sale. Plastic shields if you are dealing with people expelling blood, and other droplets. Hand sanitiser arriving next week.
10:35am 01/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
856 posts
defend the man who says magical light


UV catheters already exist to treat the respiratory tract.

You need only extrapolate fpots propensity to comment on things he knows absolutely nothing about to the rest of the posts on this forum to safely dismiss it and just troll the knob instead.
11:05am 01/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6660 posts
Because all I'm hearing is you don't like the president spitballing hypotheticals in press conferences.


The president spitballing injecting disinfectants into people is definitely something I take objection too.
11:39am 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4075 posts
Yeah ok but why?

If it is recast as looking at medical uses for disinfectants, which is completely justified by the context, what is the problem?

I can tell you the focus on this type of s*** by the media rather than on things like using the DP act on meatpacking companies scares me a lot more than anything said in the press conference. Some genuine investigation of how close they are to having their food supply chains collapse seems a touch more important to me.
12:58pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27009 posts
UV catheters already exist to treat the respiratory tract.
Yes yes that's what he meant! Which is why alt-right media went into meltdown defending him by changing the meaning of words and the next day he said he was being sarcastic. Please refer to Fireman Sam's comment which applies to you also -

It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


edit: some very rudimentary googling showed examples of catheters being sterilised with UV light, but I couldn't find anything about UV light being used in catheters to fight infection. Lying again there mate?
02:41pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1296 posts
The problem is this pp:

Trump probbaly says 300000 words a week that are captured by media. What does media do? Takes a sentence and twist it and then promote it worldwide. I quoted ABC News where they posted "he suggested injecting disinfectant".

That's not what he said or did.

It's this swisting and lack of media integrity combined with sensational promotion that gets idiots to try it. I'd never heard of coward punch or eating a tide pod if it wasn't for media pushing this stuff around. Look what is does to TDS sufferers.. it doesn't help, it only helps feed their confirmation bias.

None of this would have happened if it's wasn't for capitalism. Yum potatoes.

Today:

". Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang cited the institute's director, Yuan Zhiming, as saying the lab strictly implements biosecurity procedures that would prevent the release of any pathogen. The [intelligence community] will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan," the ODNI said.
03:20pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27010 posts
I see we're entering the it was a bioweapon released by China stage of conspiracy numptitude.
03:27pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6284 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.

So was it taken out of context, or was he sarcastic, guys?

Oh look, a post by Nmag crying about the ABC again.
05:24pm 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4076 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.

So was it taken out of context, or was he sarcastic, guys?


Well it was mostly to protect people like you vash. So I guess you tell us, did you think you should inject Drano?
06:16pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24658 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.


Airlines have to warn that bags of peanuts contain peanuts. Whatvs your point?
06:54pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27011 posts
His point was that during a COVID-19 press conference The President of the United States of America suggested injecting bleach and magical light as treatments for COVID infected patients. As a result of this easily impressionable people (his base) were at risk of following that advice resulting in the FDA and disinfectant producers to take mitigating action by warning against it. This was probably after The President of the United States of America peddled the last miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and it killed one person and made another gravely ill after they took it in fish tank cleaner form.
07:13pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6661 posts
Heard on the radio, cannot find a news link. Take with Grain of Salt.

Scotty was talking about possible easing of restrictions for Australia (as if States aren't already doing it themselves.) One thing he spoke of was the 40% (of Australians? Phones?) target for Covid Tracking App installs. He spoke that it wasn't the only factor but would be 'Heavily' considered during the discussion.

Seemed to be implying that we'd all have to stay in our rooms if we weren't good little boys and girls and installed their tracking app. How many people have installed it? Is it killing your battery as fast as others are reporting it is? Also Apple users; Have they fixed the fact that it needs to be open, unlocked and active yet?
07:36pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24659 posts
As per the nuts example, retarded people do retarded things. Also hot coffee can burn.
07:37pm 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4077 posts
This was probably after The President of the United States of America peddled the last miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and it killed one person and made another gravely ill after they took it in fish tank cleaner form.


I interesting footnote on guilability here.

there is a homicide investigation into the man's death

Looks like the wife might have been relying on this kind of impressionibility to get away with murder
As a result of this easily impressionable people (his base) were at risk


Don't forget, From the story:

“What bothers me about this is that Gary was a very intelligent man, a retired (mechanical) engineer who designed systems for John Deere in Waterloo, Iowa, and I really can’t see the scenario where Gay would say, ‘Yes, please, I would love to drink some of that Koi fish tank cleaner,'” one friend told the outlet. “It just doesn’t make sense.”


That man was *much* more highly educated than fpot.
07:53pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27012 posts
Also hot coffee can burn.
Did you ever see the photographs of the person who burned themselves with McDonalds coffee?
08:03pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24660 posts
No, do you have it?
08:43pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27013 posts
They're on the internet.
08:46pm 01/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39975 posts
How many people have installed it?
I heard 3.5m earlier today but I haven't found an official source of this that I trust

in "the tech", people usually talk about "active users" as a metric of success of your app (e.g., monthly active users, daily active users, etc"). These are the numbers that certain groups care about (e.g., advertisers) as they more realistically demonstrate reach, and are thus considered more useful, than sheer # of installs.

So the # of installs is one number, but the number that matters - especially given the issues with iPhones - is the # of people that have it installed and it is actively checking in to report it is running and/or working.

Also Apple users; Have they fixed the fact that it needs to be open, unlocked and active yet?
no
09:04pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24661 posts
If we all install the app on our phones when we are literally doing nothing of interest all day I figure who gives a damn. Once the quarantine ends we uninstall it.

All they will see on my profile is me ferrying between home, work and the public toilet cubicle I sit in for hours at a time just to have some private time with my thoughts.
10:35am 02/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39977 posts
All they will see on my profile is me ferrying between home, work and the public toilet cubicle I sit in for hours at a time just to have some private time with my thoughts.
they won't see that - it does not track location from GPS.

It /only/ tracks intersections between devices running the app.

The Android app has been reverse engineered to validate this - also it does not require the GPS permissions. I assume the iOS app also does not ask for location permissions (IIRC the permission model is different and it puts up a prompt to ask permission for GPS?)
10:53am 02/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1297 posts

They said 4 today. I think they also said it's not turned on yet. Collects via bluetooth when it contacts another bluetooth phone with the app on. Also heard something about the pubs will expect patrons to have it. We are pretty keen to get back to pubs, clubs and restaurants.

US officials familiar with intelligence reporting and analysis have said ...they believe it was either introduced through human contact with wildlife at a meat market in the central city of Wuhan, or could have escaped from one of two Wuhan government laboratories believed to be conducting civilian research into possible biological hazards.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-04/pompeo-says-evidence-shows-coronavirus-emerged-from-chinese-lab/12210882

I don't buy into the bioweapon theory but I certainly believe it's more likely an accidental laboratory escape than a transmission from a market. Like I said earlier:

One guy I know plays with influenza in cancer local research laboratories.
One woman I know plays with anthrax in local research laboratories.

This RnD stuff goes on all over.

Wet market escape my arse... more like it got out of the lab and they tried to cover it up.. by the time they explained the emergency it had already gone global. They knew much earlier.

Seen the lego movie?

And Vash, that's not a cry about ABC.. That's demonstrating even ABC (who we would expect to have more integrity) takes hype and rewords chinese whispers to create inaccurate hype based on twisted lies.

Conclusion
The wider public may be unaware that psychiatrists and social scientists spend considerable time and energy behind closed doors pondering over the existence and reality of mental conditions. This has led the APA to revise the DSM five times since 1952, considerably expanding the list of official mental disorders with each revision. As far as I am aware, few psychiatrists are currently arguing that DSM-6 should contain TDS as a mental disorder.

That said, in its official definition of mental disorder, the DSM-5 states that "a mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior…mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."

Many have argued that some people have been seriously disturbed and distressed by the policies, speech, behavior, and tweets of President Trump, so much so that it has affected their cognitive, affective, and behavioral functioning. Such people may need mental health support. As such, further research is necessary to investigate the extreme reactions toward President Trump, in the same way that researchers investigate other extreme social phenomena, such as Beatlemania or the like. This will shed light on the reality of this emerging folk category that has been labelled by many as "Trump Derangement Syndrome."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201901/is-trump-derangement-syndrome-real-mental-condition?page=1
03:23pm 03/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17007 posts
I wish I could say I was surprised that the resident Trump supporters are defending his ludicrous disinfectant suggestion. I refer you to the facts:

- Trump suggested during his pandemic update that disinfectants, injected or otherwise, might be useful as therapy. He directed his science team in the room to look into it.
- Following the inevitable backlash over his inane remarks, he claimed that he was being sarcastic (ie, deliberately lying) to the media to watch the reaction and because the media is unfairly mean to him.

So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies. I watched the interview a few times and see no evidence of sarcasm, and I don't think the likes of PP think he was being sarcastic either, because we have this desperate search for even remotely disinfectant-related therapies to back up his spit balling.

As always a relevant xkcd:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cells.png

The reality is that Trump is at best a pretty stupid person who overstates his mental capacity at every opportunity. He believes that he is actually very smart, and that he 'gets' epidemiology in some sort of intuitive way that doesn't require hard work and education. The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.

To believe that he could have made a credible and useful insight here - the insight being 'disinfectant kills the virus very quickly on the benchtop, maybe we can use that as a therapy, I better tell everyone about it! I bet nobody thought of THAT! Let's get some doctors on it'

Textbook Dunning-Kruger. And you guys scramble to find excuses for it because not-Democrat.

Wet market escape my arse... more like it got out of the lab and they tried to cover it up..


Except that we know that viruses mutate and jump species to humans, its how these epidemics start. There is no evidence to suggest a lab break as the source, and numerous scientists studying the virus have reported on review that there is no evidence that the virus was edited in the lab. Your tinfoil hat is showing.

The Chinese tried to cover up the SARS-Cov outbreak in 2003, we should not be surprised at all that they tried to cover up SARS-Cov2 in 2019.
01:16pm 05/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24663 posts
The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.

To believe that he could have made a credible and useful insight here - the insight being 'disinfectant kills the virus very quickly on the benchtop, maybe we can use that as a therapy, I better tell everyone about it! I bet nobody thought of THAT! Let's get some doctors on it'


I agree with you. He shouldn't have done it.
01:52pm 05/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27014 posts
I don't buy into the bioweapon theory but I certainly believe it's more likely an accidental laboratory escape than a transmission from a market. Like I said earlier:

One guy I know plays with influenza in cancer local research laboratories.
One woman I know plays with anthrax in local research laboratories.
Yeah, but these are lies. The typical mundane lies you tell because you're a complete deads***. You should really stop.
02:06pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4078 posts
So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies. I watched the interview a few times and see no evidence of sarcasm, and I don't think the likes of PP think he was being sarcastic either, because we have this desperate search for even remotely disinfectant-related therapies to back up his spit balling.


I don't believe he was being sarcastic.

But a better description of this

So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies.


Would be we don't need to try to discover anything because it was clearly an off the cuff comment. And not a particularly illogical one in the context. The proof of this is the actual ongoing research in the area.

But better yet it could be worth thinking about whether or not the wildly overstated death tolls bandied about (which are going to be avoided) have something to do with the desire (some might say desperate desire) to focus on something like that.

And you guys scramble to find excuses for it because not-Democrat.


Speaking of partisan blindness have you detected a subtle difference in the coverage of Tara Reade's allegation against Biden vs Kavanaugh? Because I consider this issue linked to the disinfectant one.
02:13pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17008 posts
Would be we don't need to try to discover anything because it was clearly an off the cuff comment. And not a particularly illogical one in the context. The proof of this is the actual ongoing research in the area.

But better yet it could be worth thinking about whether or not the wildly overstated death tolls bandied about (which are going to be avoided) have something to do with the desire (some might say desperate desire) to focus on something like that.

Deflection and excuses.

If this was something that he had said during an internal briefing, it leaked and people were mocking him for it I would back him 100%. He has the right to ask, and should be engaged and seeking solutions without fear that his non-scientific background will be held against him. But it wasn't an off the cuff moment, it was a nationally televised pandemic update. This is not the place for off the cuff rambling (or as some supporters call it 'digesting information') and your support of it is completely absurd. Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency? Daily and without contrition? You'd be justifiably ropeable.

But you excuse him, and you also seem to have hand waved his lies and deflection about trolling the press like it doesn't matter.

Speaking of partisan blindness have you detected a subtle difference in the coverage of Tara Reade's allegation against Biden vs Kavanaugh? Because I consider this issue linked to the disinfectant one.

My interest in American politics is really around the woeful and damaging Federal Government response to the pandemic, and in particular how it is interpreted through the conservative prism. I barely know who these people are, let alone provide a meaningful insight into the seemingly ubiquitous sexual assault allegations against male American politicians.

Edit: props to infi.
03:02pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4079 posts
If this was something that he had said during an internal briefing, it leaked and people were mocking him for it I would back him 100%.


Call me cynical if you must, but I have my doubts.

Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency? Daily and without contrition? You'd be justifiably ropeable.

But you excuse him, and you also seem to have hand waved his lies and deflection about trolling the press like it doesn't matter.


His trolling of the press doesn't matter. If they had something approaching a modicum of professionalism among them it would concern me more but they don't. If fact they can be relied on to the get the big issues wrong continuously. So I do not have even a slight problem with them being treated as the side show they are. You can probably blame Google and Facebook for their current state but it is what it is.

Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency?


It's funny to me that you include Joe Biden in that list. Because I've never minded Joe's gaffs, and keep in mind he is famous for them and always has been. And I don't mind them now though I note they have gotten worse recently.

As for Kevin "programmatic specificity" Rudd I would trade his nonsensical "intelligent" press briefings that said nothing by design for someone how speaks genuinely but inarticulatly every day of the week.

My interest in American politics is really around the woeful and damaging Federal Government response to the pandemic, and in particular how it is interpreted through the conservative prism.


I don't think you can't understand the matter through the conservative prism without understanding the difference in that coverage.
04:52pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17009 posts
^ Nothing I feel compelled to respond to; especially after you claim that POTUS' lies and fanciful anti-science remarks to the American people don't matter. You are not having this discussion in good faith.

In related news, Trump (yesterday?) admitted that his forecast of a COVID-19 vaccine by the end of the year was against expert advice, even as he was saying it.

Actual doctors think otherwise.
05:10pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4080 posts
It's very much up to you. But I can tell that I am having the conversation in good faith.
05:56pm 05/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39978 posts
I live in hope we can might get other general purpose coronavirus vaccines out of this that will help stamp out the common cold
06:19pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1298 posts

Oh look Trog agrees with me.. but he can't see it as he runs TDSButthurt2.0 script to hide me.

Making a vaccine for this is basically like making a vaccine for the common cold. We have not done that before. The ingress point is up in the nasal cavity. That causes challenges. There is a slight slight slight chance... we could end up injecting a nasal spray a couple times a day to eliminate/reduce transmission at the ingress point. But what would I know? ask fpot... he's a genius.

I don't think Trump was being sarcastic either. I think he was talking out his arse, but media took what he said out of context... and people tend to absorb interviews with narration from d******* journalists who frame things out of context with spin. I doubt the average TDS suffered watched the interview objectively including the 5-10 minutes before he said that.

We don't have evidence to not rule out the lab.

This planet is huge. 20 miles up the road from the market is this lab. Coincidence? We are expected to believe them. They wouldn't know themselves if it was the lab or the market, or other... but they say "The market". It's like farting and pointing to the guy next to you.

Have you seen the Lego movie?

Here is a giant article ruling it out. I haven't read the whole thing. I'm sure it has a wonderful argument for why we should believe China that it did not escape as a result of activities at that lab. Remember I'm not saying it was purposely made, or anything silly like bioweapons. I'm wouldn't rule out accidental escape. again, from the article that says it was unlikely the lab:

Some have focused on the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

In 2015, WIV became China's first lab to reach the highest level of bioresearch safety, or BSL-4, meaning the lab could host research on the world's most dangerous pathogens, such as Ebola and Marburg viruses. (SARS-CoV-2 would require a BSL-3 or higher, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.) Labs like these must follow strict safety guidelines that include filtering air, treating water and waste before they exit, and requiring lab personnel to shower and change their clothes before and after entering the facility, Nature News reported in 2017.

These types of labs do spur concerns among some scientists who worry about the risks involved and the potential impact on public health if anything were to go wrong, Nature News reported.

WIV was not immune to those concerns. In 2018, after scientist diplomats from the U.S. embassy in Beijing visited the WIV, they were so concerned by the lack of safety and management at the lab that the diplomats sent two official warnings back to the U.S. One of the official cables, obtained by The Washington Post, suggested that the lab's work on bat coronaviruses with the potential for human transmission could risk causing a new SARS-like pandemic, Post columnist Josh Rogin wrote.

"During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory," the officials said in their cable dated to Jan. 19, 2018.

When reports of the coronavirus first popped up in China, the U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger reportedly suspected a potential link to China labs. In mid-January, according to a New York Times report, Pottinger asked intelligence agencies like the C.I.A., particularly individuals with expertise on Asia and weapons of mass destruction, to investigate this idea. They came up empty-handed, the Times reported.

Meanwhile, the lab at the center of these speculations had long been sounding the alarm about the risk of the SARS-like coronaviruses they studied to spawn a pandemic.

The head of the lab's bat-coronavirus research, Shi Zhengli, published research on Nov. 30, 2017 in the journal PLOS Pathogens that traced the SARS coronavirus pandemic in 2003 to a single population of horseshoe bats in a remote cave in Yunnan province. The researchers also noted that other SARS-like coronaviruses discovered in that cave used the ACE2 receptor to infect cells and could "replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells," they wrote. (Both SARS and SARS-CoV-2 use the ACE2 receptor as the entry point into cells.)
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-complicated-origins.html

As if "C.I.A., particularly individuals with expertise on Asia and weapons of mass destruction" would be keeping tabs on some lab trying to make a cure for the common cold. You realise the common cold is a coronavirus?

I think expecting honest truth from Chyna is naive. Have been locking up people of faith in "reeducation camps? or is that tin foil stuff too?

ABC is coming around....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-05/church-selling-bleach-claims-cures-coronavirus-australia/12201348

Today: "Donald Trump questions whether disinfectant could be injected to kill coronavirus" is the label for the video that starts without the discussion beforehand.
08:51pm 05/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27015 posts
If you were playing critical thinking fail bingo Nmag you'd be a huge winner. Unfortunately critical thinking fail bingo doesn't exist and you're just really f*****g dumb.
09:59pm 05/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
857 posts
Look at all these erudite people telling everyone what is and isn't appropriate for a press conference. What you really should be doing is looking long and hard at your own lives and what got you to the point where you're that meagre that you need to obsess over 3 seconds worth of commentary in said press conference, literally weeks after it happened.

The only people who base life decisions off Trump press conferences are you idiots deciding to argue about it for WEEKS and Democrat women that need an excuse to kill their husbands.
11:07am 06/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27016 posts
I understand your fragile little ego takes a hit when people make fun of THe Great Leader but don't fret. Soon he'll do or say something even stupider than the inject bleach and magical light thing (how'd you go with those magical UV catheters that treat respiratory illness btw?) and we'll move to that. Chin up bro!
12:27pm 06/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6662 posts
what is and isn't appropriate for a press conference


I would hope we could all agree that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is pretty poor form for press conferences.
08:46pm 06/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17010 posts
dazed: inorite, it's not like Trump did a coffee mug salute or wore a tan suit.

So what do we think about travel exemptions for foreign students in Australia.

Hog says no before general travel opens. Are we really suggesting safely quarantining and clearing up to a quarter of a million foreign students?
10:50pm 06/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4081 posts

I would hope we could all agree that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is pretty poor form for press conferences.


We can't

it's not like Trump did a coffee mug salute or wore a tan suit.


And that's why.

https://i.postimg.cc/L5xXC5YV/EXRR-F-Wk-AIF6-Qn.jpg

The *vast* majority of the media do not even pretend to hold balanced views. Trump is the inevitable result of that. They lost the right to be treated seriously a long time ago.
07:40am 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39981 posts
Hog says no before general travel opens. Are we really suggesting safely quarantining and clearing up to a quarter of a million foreign students?
it feels like this should be much easier to track than most other travel-related things. If we stipulate that when they arrive they have to do mandatory quarantine & get tested on arrival into the country, with severe penalties (i.e., if they're found outside or in groups or having parties or whatever, they are fine and sent straight back home), I could probably get on board with it.

As with most of the recovery methods I think it just comes down to having reliable access to testing. As they'll all be coming into the country through a small number of central points (international airports), we should be able to get near 100% test rate.

edit: I should add, I am generally massively over-cautious on this reopening thing and believe in a very tiny incremental step-based approach with at LEAST 2-3 weeks between steps to measure impact. But this is one area where I think just because it is heavily centralised we might be able to get back to normal relatively quickly.
08:24am 07/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6663 posts
We can't


You can't, or we? Could you explain why you think that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is ok behaviour for official press briefings directed at the public?
Also, editorials aren't news but that guy is an idiot.

I'd only be ok with students coming back early if the Uni/They put up the funds for forced quarantines and testing. Should be a drop in the water for what they charge international students anyway.
11:13am 07/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17011 posts
Trog: I don't think we have the capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to accommodate foreign visitors at the moment or anytime soon. Not to mention the cost of millions of hotel quarantine days and related public health management.

It's a huge amount of work and expense at the moment. I don't think we're there yet ... but if we have capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to our system, and the students pay for the costs of managing their return to Australia I guess it could work.

I just don't have confidence that we can do that, and the cost to the Australian people of f*****g it up is super high. I certainly don't want to pay for it.
12:36pm 07/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4082 posts

I would hope we could all agree
You can't, or we?


We.

Could you explain why you think that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is ok behaviour for official press briefings directed at the public?


Because journalists have been using them as hobby horses for personal aggrandizement for years now. Which is why carefully worded statements which convey virtually no actual information is the norm in those things. They've been a waste of time for over a decade so there may as well be some sport in it. It's not like policy is being determined in the room.

Also, editorials aren't news but that guy is an idiot.


I'm comfortable with the distinction between opinion and news. What concerns me is that someone could think politico is producing news when one of the *founding editors* nails his bias that clearly to the mast and in a simply staggering coincidence politico produce next to no news about Biden's sexual assault allegations.

They have absolutely earned the treatment they receive.

And as for the lies. If it's a choice between lying about sarcasm and lying about letting hezbollah traffic drugs to fund terrorism with impunity to avoid upsetting Iran while trying to build your legacy (perhaps while wearing a tan suit).

Well I've got my choice locked in. Handy how it was released just after the election hey?
12:47pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6665 posts
Journalists pushing agendas is even more reason to have well thought out pieces of information delivered in clear and concise wording. The only reason not to do that is if you don't actually know what's what and are just talking s*** because you're floundering.
01:27pm 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39982 posts
Trog: I don't think we have the capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to accommodate foreign visitors at the moment or anytime soon. Not to mention the cost of millions of hotel quarantine days and related public health management.

It's a huge amount of work and expense at the moment. I don't think we're there yet ... but if we have capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to our system, and the students pay for the costs of managing their return to Australia I guess it could work.

I just don't have confidence that we can do that, and the cost to the Australian people of f*****g it up is super high. I certainly don't want to pay for it.
yep for sure I suspect we're not yet at the point where we can do testing at that scale, but we hopefully will be soon. I suspect we're gonna be stuffing things up people's schnozzes for many years to come so I think it's only a matter of time before testing hits that level.

All the hotels are empty so filling them up with quarantined students seems like it shouldn't be that big a deal or that expensive (they can get massive tax breaks or whatever). Possibly even could do voluntary quarantine for people from some safe countries (e.g., China) and just put the ones from third world countries that are falling apart under the strain of the virus (e.g., USA) into mandatory. With proper policing/reviewing/sanity checks and sufficient punishment for violators it should be easier & cheaper than mandatory at hotels?

I guess I am also assuming that by the time this is even remotely possible the case numbers have died off massively in the source countries where the students come from (otherwise I don't see how they are even going to get here), so that there's that much time to get testing up to scale and there's a bit of a lower risk anyway.

Re: paying for it, one way or another you're going to be paying for it - if we don't get the education industry back it is a giant hole in our economy. I am not one of these "restart the economy!!" people (soooo far from it) but if we can find some areas to boot up that can be managed - especially if it's bringing in revenue from overseas!!! - that seems like a good starting point.
02:00pm 07/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4083 posts
Journalists pushing agendas is even more reason to have well thought out pieces of information delivered in clear and concise wording. The only reason not to do that is if you don't actually know what's what and are just talking s*** because you're floundering.


Yeah but they have done that. the 15 days to slow the spread flyer seems pretty concise to me.

If you go to health department's websites including the US CDC the information you need is all right there.

White house press conferences are political theatre and have been for years which is why I tuned them out ages ago.
I only knew this happened because it was pointed out here.
I'll happily concede it's jarring to watch someone treat as nakedly as political theatre as Trump does. But it just doesn't change anything for me.
02:33pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17012 posts
yep for sure I suspect we're not yet at the point where we can do testing at that scale, but we hopefully will be soon. I suspect we're gonna be stuffing things up people's schnozzes for many years to come so I think it's only a matter of time before testing hits that level.


After we get to that level we should consider using latent test capacity to enable foreign nationals to study. Given that in the entire outbreak we've done about a half million tests, ramping up to accommodate hundreds of thousands of fee paying students who will each need multiple tests seems super premature and (to me) a clear case of 'the econermy' competing with public health. We've only recently started testing all those who seek testing and are symptomatic - it would be unwise and short sighted to push that back to symptoms & known contact so that fee paying students can come back.

The problem is that there is a push to get them back for Semester 2 this year. The second half of 2020 should (again imo) be about Australian students returning to campus and the boffins watching what happens at that level, not rushing to load campuses to 100%+ capacity because money.
04:07pm 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39983 posts
All good points! I'm not married to the idea. I certainly think being more cautious is the better path. But I do think the centralisation of people coming from overseas offers unique benefits to testing that probably don't exist in most other areas & if we can figure out a way to take advantage of it that'd be rad
05:25pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41465 posts
06:34pm 07/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
858 posts
My favourite pastime is watching conspiracy numpty fpot's already proven retarded conspiracy theory about Trump and Russia become even more retarded by watching Lt Gen Flynn walk free with charges dropped because further investigation would have revealed even worse utter corruption and incompetence in the DOJ and the FBI than is already obvious.

Grab the tinfoil hat fpot. Russia must have paid off the DOJ to drop the case.
12:11pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24664 posts
Because journalists have been using them as hobby horses for personal aggrandizement for years now. Which is why carefully worded statements which convey virtually no actual information is the norm in those things. They've been a waste of time for over a decade so there may as well be some sport in it. It's not like policy is being determined in the room.


100%. Journalism is a lame 24/7 gotcha competition by "journalists" who don't even attempt to hide their bias. Why would a politician provide sincere, detailed, occasionally flawed or morally ambiguous information? It would be immediately weaponised against them. Journalists do not subject themselves to the same standards.

Trump flipped this convention which frustrates the s*** out of lamestream. He makes ridiculous intentionally exaggerated claims and is unapologetic, pandering to his base. It like politics meets WWF. I love seeing pundits go absolutely bonkers that he wont tap dance to their tune.

PLAYGROUNDS WILL OPEN HOW GOOD IS AUSTRALIA?
01:07pm 08/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39984 posts
Trump flipped this convention which frustrates the s*** out of lamestream. He makes ridiculous intentionally exaggerated claims and is unapologetic, pandering to his base. It like politics meets WWF. I love seeing pundits go absolutely bonkers that he wont tap dance to their tune.
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.
01:55pm 08/05/20 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5197 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.


I'd be happy to laugh as I look back over his term in office while watching his funeral because karma crept up on him and bit him hard. F*** that orange, tiny hand's lying POS

That is all.
03:05pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24665 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.


If journalists are not interested in creating a flow of sincere legitimate information why should the politicians indulge them?

Besides he can communicate directly on the issues that matter by offiicial press release. Compare the media to Australia. US are viciously partisan. They are a joke and should be treated like one. Facts and opinion have become blended. Feels bad to be redundant.
03:13pm 08/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4084 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time.


Perhaps the most succinct answer to that question is that the same people who get bent out of shape about lying about stupid s*** like the presence of genuine sarcasm and wax lyrical about "relationships with the truth" flatly ignore earth shatteringly big lies when they come from the right team.

For example, no-one on this forum has mentioned
Afghanistan Papers which wapo quietly released during the impeachment

Ironically they damage GW Bush who is currently being rehabilitated from white supremacist nazi to "the reasonable Republican of yesteryear".

But more importantly prove Obama lied for 8 straight years about Afghanistan. Again possibly while wearing a tan suit and/or saluting while holding coffee, which is the real scandal.

I assume infi, like myself, enjoys the *profound* irony of being so concerned about irrelevant lies and being apparently a ok with really really big ones.

But even little ones get glossed over. Biden tells a story about getting arrested trying to visit Mandela in prison in South Africa. To be clear I don't really care, except that it is really weird thing to lie about. But it's a straight Trump style brag and I don't see the meltdown.
03:38pm 08/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6286 posts
Why should a president be held accountable? Thats all fluff for liberal democracies.
The media is asking the right questions, Infi doesn't like those questions so its Trump good, Media baaad.
03:55pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24666 posts
And sure, I think sometimes Trump takes it too far. People forget this guy is one dimensional - what you see is what you get. He was exactly like this before he came to office and like a hopeful fiance, they expect him to change once married?

But he is definitely the media's kryptonite. The MSM want to stop broadcasting his press conferences but they rate high and they need the ad revenue. HAHAHAHA
04:51pm 08/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27017 posts
My favourite pastime is watching conspiracy numpty fpot's already proven retarded conspiracy theory about Trump and Russia become even more retarded by watching Lt Gen Flynn walk free with charges dropped because further investigation would have revealed even worse utter corruption and incompetence in the DOJ and the FBI than is already obvious.
Yes yes Barr has dropped the charges because it would make the people he and the team desperately want to look bad, look bad. You've really thought this one through. It's no coincidence that the person who -

a) assisted a foreign superpower attack their own country because
b) the attack was to interfere with the election in an effort to get that person elected and
c) committed crimes covering up the help he gave

is now responsible for thousands of deaths in what might be the most blunderous and lethal example of mismanagement by a modern government.

edit: once upon a time I'd be astonished that a person would use an example of a government acting openly corrupt in way that before 2016 would seem utterly impossible as an attack against a person who accuses this government of being openly corrupt but here we are.
06:43pm 08/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4085 posts
Yes yes Barr has dropped the charges because it would make the people he and the team desperately want to look bad, look bad. You've really thought this one through. It's no coincidence that the person who -

a) assisted a foreign superpower attack their own country because
b) the attack was to interfere with the election in an effort to get that person elected and
c) committed crimes covering up the help he gave


Imagine how deeply in conspiracy juice you'd have to be stewing to think those words have even the slightest basis.in reality.

But he is definitely the media's kryptonite. The MSM want to stop broadcasting his press conferences but they rate high and they need the ad revenue. HAHAHAHA


Reckon that's an accident or is Trump a moron?
07:01pm 08/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1299 posts
He is clearly a moron. If he was educated in one of Australia's public schools he would be far more intelligent. If he was clever he would hand out more free stuff, believe in a world without borders, play to the media and try to do as little as possible like the last president. Only Hillary could have saved them. She's an honest woman. What they really need is a strong charismatic leader like Bernie. But, now it's gone to s***. If Biden can recover from his stroke, appoint Hillary as vice, and then Biden accidentally falls down some stairs to his death, Hillary can bring her unquestionable integrity to the presidential role and save the nation that is basically a brainwashed flag waving obese war machine.
11:52am 09/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24667 posts
lol nmag what the Dems need is another Neo-Con

for fpot - James Clapper, Obama's Head of National Intelligence:

https://i.imgur.com/t7TR1ma.png
12:57pm 09/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39985 posts
Not really sure how to parse your first response as an answer to my question.
And sure, I think sometimes Trump takes it too far. People forget this guy is one dimensional - what you see is what you get. He was exactly like this before he came to office and like a hopeful fiance, they expect him to change once married?
You admit he's a one dimensional caricature. You (now) cheerfully admit he lies like breathing. You seem to agree expecting him to change and actually take charge in a useful way once in office has always been and continues to be a silly notion.

Yet somehow, there are those that take pleasure when people are discomfited by these (objectively?) bad things. They think it's funny and they "love" it when the media report on it, getting some weird pleasure about being able to laugh and point, saying "teehee TDS" like its all some big joke. I guess we could call it schadenfreude if we wanted to make it sound classy, but it just feels like the political equivalent of laughing when an old person slips in the shower and breaks their hip. e.g., what a self-own!

It's not like these personality traits have combined to give him super powers, like some x-ray vision analogue that allows him to see through the complexities and corruption of modern politics so he can cut straight to the heart of matters, to make plays that prove over time to have been powered by cunning insight that noone else was able to emulate, because they lack his particular combination of skills. I mean I can see how people /thought/ maybe that's what was going to happen, and that maybe, just MAYBE it would be worth putting up with such a despicable human being if he could Get Stuff Done (even I thought maybe he would surprise us at one point; maybe it /would/ be good having someone that wasn't a career politician). But it's increasingly obvious to everyone (not just typical detractors) that he's just been blundering along doing things at random, except in cases where there was an obvious personal benefit to him, his family, or his immediate circle of lacklustre cronies.

So surely there's some point where you go "huh, maybe it's actually /not/ funny? That the media is simply not equipped to deal with this kind of person as President? Maybe what was good for a bit of a larf at the start is wearing a bit thin now he's presiding on an ever-growing mountain of human skulls? Maybe getting pleasure from seeing him 'own the libs' through his extremely complicated and well-thought-out long-term strategy of lying, nepotism, cronyism, self-enrichment, golf and impeachables is a "bad touch" kind of pleasure? Maybe seeing people go into paroxysms when the media straight up just blindly broadcast, with no intervention, his actual words in a way that highlights his genuine stupidity, has just stopped being funny and started being a little sad? Maybe, in fact, finding comedy in the misery of others under any circumstances is part of the problem?"

I know, I know, he'd have to raise taxes. But my question remains, why do you think you and the many others out there take so much pleasure in other people getting upset by Trump's objectively bad behaviour?

On the journalism side:

I don't know what we can do about the fundamental issues of poor journalism. I agree the media has been failing all of us, but I don't think it's generally the fault of the vast majority of individual journalists - it is a systemic problem as their business model twists and turns under the pressure of the digital information age, which has crushed old models and old money and left everyone scrabbling for the pieces.

I feel some very slight random culpability here because for a long long time I was very happily part of the machine that pushed online ads as the thing that kept websites free; I saw this as a way to provide good content without having to charge for it, and thus make it more available. But it has been perverted by the tyranny of the click; unabashed, shameless avarice from those that profit from publishing lies that too many desperately want to believe.

As a starting point: install ad blockers (the irony of me saying this is not lost on me). Use browsers that are privacy-focused (Firefox or Brave are the two big options, but get off Chrome). Pay for good journalism; find the news that /matters/ (e.g., what politicians /do/ vs what they /say/) and be informed by it. Don't indulge opinion writers, unless they challenge your existing opinions.

(And not to take preachy-ness to truly dizzying heights, but I would say it would also be nice if media consumers trained themselves out of taking pleasure in the misery or sadness of others and avoided journalists who make their money by pandering like that.)
01:57pm 09/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24668 posts
Yet somehow, there are those that take pleasure when people are discomfited by these (objectively?) bad things. They think it's funny and they "love" it when the media report on it, getting some weird pleasure about being able to laugh and point, saying "teehee TDS" like its all some big joke. I guess we could call it schadenfreude if we wanted to make it sound classy, but it just feels like the political equivalent of laughing when an old person slips in the shower and breaks their hip. e.g., what a self-own!


Because when you scratch beneath the superficial obsession with delivery and style, the actual policy decisions his administration are making are not that bad, record low black and hispanic unemployment, tarrifs on China, new free trade agreements with Canada and Mexico, reduced illegal border crossings, building the wall, very clear positions with NATO and WHO and all these other bloated NGOs, s*** I'm not going to list them all, the youtuber Fleccas does a good job of that.

All this media mishmash is just icing. Seeing very low IQ types wind themselves up into a frenzy because Trump will not play their games is pretty satisfying. Journos loitering around for a 15 second sound bite or unguarded hot mike moment devolves politics into the stupid place it has arrived. I have never liked it in any political arena.

So surely there's some point where you go "huh, maybe it's actually /not/ funny? That the media is simply not equipped to deal with this kind of person as President?


It is hilariously funny because none of the media stuff matters. The mainstream media is rating lower than ever.

why do you think you and the many others out there take so much pleasure in other people getting upset by Trump's objectively bad behaviour?


I guess the US situation is different to Australia. In Australia the parliament takes the temperature of the PM every day and like so many of our PMs have found, they can removed at the drop of a hat. In the US, its 4 years or impeachment. So I am concerned with the total outcome an d I don't really think personal ethics or morality is that relevant. In judging the President the fundamental question is: Is the US in a better place than before Trump came to power and in relation to Federal outcomes I would definitely say Yes.

As a keen politics observer, I lost interest in judging the morality of politicians, because the process by which laws and political decisions are made is very messy. That's why politicians are generally extremeely narcissistic tough-than-teflon characters.

How could a major political party seriously think their best Presidential candidate is a geriatric who sniffs little girls' hair? I dunno but that's the way it works....
02:21pm 09/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27018 posts
The reason infi and co like trump so much is because they're excited by the fact that someone as callous, incompetent and unfit to lead as them is enjoying such success and popularity. It helps feed the only part of them actually alive - the part that fools them into thinking they aren't complete and utter scum. They're also excited by the fact that someone who is willing and able to inflict cruelty on subhuman filth is in power and able to get away with anything.

That's why politics in the US is doomed. How is someone who promises to abide by the rules and right the ship able to compete with that? This is a really special moment for trump supporters. For years they've had to sit in the corner and be quiet while society progressed without them. Now's the chance for history to repeat itself for the umpteenth time and for some satisfying cruelty to be inflicted on those ingrates holding us back. Sweet revenge! They gotta have it.

No amount of reasoning or explaining will make any difference. No matter how much thought or care you put into it you'll just be handed back a giant pile of s*** like infi typed above. You could reason with his ilk for a million years and you'd never get through. When people say 'well do you think marginalising them and putting them in a corner is a smart idea' I think to myself, yes, it is. They aren't like your typical extremist, borne from years of oppression and inhumane wartorn survival (not an excuse). They're spoiled little brats sitting in daddy's office scared that if society progresses too far their ride won't be quite so easy. The only option is to return them where they came from. The irrelevant fringes of society they festered in before the Great Leader was 'elected'. Send them back I say.
04:38pm 09/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4086 posts
The reason infi and co like trump so much is because they're excited by the fact that someone as callous, incompetent and unfit to lead as them is enjoying such success and popularity. It helps feed the only part of them actually alive - the part that fools them into thinking they aren't complete and utter scum. They're also excited by the fact that someone who is willing and able to inflict cruelty on subhuman filth is in power and able to get away with anything.


The fever dream that allows fpot to think he is better than anyone at all.

When in reality he is a sad stupid middle-aged gold coast bouncer and these meltdowns just never get old.

The palpable jealousy of infi is just so delicious. You reckon he has a photo of you infi that he rage wanks to?
No amount of reasoning or explaining will make any difference.


You lack the equipment to "reason" sweet cheeks.

Pay for good journalism; find the news that /matters/ (e.g., what politicians /do/ vs what they /say/) and be informed by it.


And oh my god the f*****g irony of posting that after *100s* of posts of oh my god Trump said what?
05:01pm 09/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6287 posts
Heheh, well said Fpot. And what you've said is supported by research.

I've posted it before but here it is again for good measure.

https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/750/html

Seeing very low IQ types


This one is a goodun.
05:41pm 09/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27019 posts
'very low IQ types' is direct from the troll farm.

Something interesting I stumbled upon in troll farm twitter the other week. A twitter user by the name of @tellyoursonthis. His profile pic is some weird Van Gogh looking thing. Reading it I was thinking how stuff like that must be like heroin for incel chuds. Just an absolute loathing for woman smart enough not to f*** them (which is 99.99%) interspersed with weird projection about 'very low IQ types'. Read it for a laugh if you're bored.
05:52pm 09/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4087 posts
Heheh, well said Fpot. And what you've said is supported by research.

I've posted it before but here it is again for good measure.


"Research".
07:05pm 09/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
859 posts
fpot can add the concept of holdovers to the burgeoning list of things his peanut brain can't understand
08:44pm 09/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39986 posts
Because when you scratch beneath the superficial obsession with delivery and style, the actual policy decisions his administration are making are not that bad
This is a bold position to start with given the current state of affairs in the USA. His policy decision was to get up in front of the nation and dismiss the risk of pandemic. Not even once, but a bunch of times, the entire time while it was spreading.

i.e., you are basically praising a toddler for putting his toys away while he is dropping a steaming hot turd on the kitchen table. (And that's before we even get into the details of the policy decisions. Picking one at random, the China tariffs, the economic jury still seems wayyy out on that in terms of actual benefits across the economy. It might retroactively turn out to be a stroke of genius, now that there are tens of millions of unemployed Americans, if the federal government decides to sponsor a Manhattan Project-esque jobs programme!)
All this media mishmash is just icing.
It is hilariously funny because none of the media stuff matters.
Why is that funny? That is a tragedy. If citizens can't be informed by the media, and can't make informed decisions about how to vote, then democracy is, and I use this word quite seriously, f***ed, because at that point we're just throwing s*** at the wall.

Where do you expect citizens to get this information from? Trump's tweets?! I just can't fathom what you find funny in all this. "It's funny because it's systemically broken and nothing anyone does matters any more" doesn't scan to me.

I guess trying to get people to explain their sense of humour is just a lost cause at the best of times.
The mainstream media is rating lower than ever.
It's odd you think this doesn't matter when it certainly matters to one person, who can't help but bring how great and record-setting the ratings are, as long as he's the subject.
Is the US in a better place than before Trump came to power and in relation to Federal outcomes I would definitely say Yes.
"Federal outcomes" is an obvious landmine here but trying to think of what outcomes there are that still seem worth bragging about given the current state of affairs. Noone knows what is going to happen to the US now. It is balanced on a knife edge. I think about (amongst other things) the billions that are going to be pissed away by both parties in the US in the next few months, buying ad spots and running their campaigns, the whole time people are queuing up in food lines and wondering what is going to happen.
As a keen politics observer, I lost interest in judging the morality of politicians, because the process by which laws and political decisions are made is very messy. That's why politicians are generally extremeely narcissistic tough-than-teflon characters.
Well the narcissistic part is right. Hard to think of a more fragile ego than the current president, who can barely go hours without b****ing about someone on Twitter that he feels he's been slighted by. (Not that it matters but... is teflon tough? I thought teflon as used to describe politicians was limited to their slickness.) It feels very optimistic to think that all policy making and governing can be done in a way that is detached from morality.

But I take your point! Maybe it would be great if we could ignore their morality and judge them just based on the outcomes of their decisions. The ends justify the means, right?! That is probably a good position for Trump to be angling, like there's still some magic light at the end of the tunnel that is going to make this disastrous situation worth it and everything is going to be Just Fine.

(Of course if you're like me and think that morality is linked to policy and thus results, you'd look at the series of decisions that got them to the point they're in now, and look at them in the context of their morality (e.g., craven disassembly on purely ideological grounds of the exact types of public institutions that would have been helpful in preventing and managing such a crisis, massive ego dismissive of risks outside of area of expertise, complete and total disregard for domain expertise, thinking nepotism is a suitable alternative to putting experts in charge etc etc), and think ".... ugh".)
10:01am 10/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39987 posts
Here is a morality test that I think about all the time with Trump:

Let's say leading up to the next election in November he is sowing the seeds of doubt the entire time about it being a fair election process.

Let's say in some US state which trends Republican, there is a group of people in close contact (not a lot, like less than 100 but more than 20) with a lot of guns that are big Trump fans, for whatever reason. They are big 2A people, for the purposes of overthrowing a corrupt government, something which has been instilled in them since birth. They consume a lot of survivalist media and have a bias to believe conspiracy theories they read on Facebook.

Let's say he loses the election.

What are the chances he will concede defeat gracefully? Do you think there is anything in his character that would enable him to congratulate Biden (assuming Biden survives til then, which I think is a coin toss) on a well-earned victory and wish him luck for his term during such a challenging time, yadayadayada? Are they the kind of tweeters you'd expect to see from him? Are those words you can imagine coming out of his mouth in a concession speech?

So just for this hypothetical, let's say there's an infinitesimal chance that he takes the loss less than gracefully. He tweets furiously throughout the night, using words like "rigged" and "conspiracy" and "hoax".

Let's say that, apropos of nothing, this group of patriots decide that their republic has fallen thanks to this liberal conspiracy, or whatever. They lock and load and take the statehouse to try to declare themselves independent of this new sham government. They try to do it without injury but they accidentally shoot and kill a civilian. Local & federal police respond, the building is surrounded. More armed supporters turn up to protest in the streets and in other places.

What is Trump's next play at this point? What impact do you think his morals might have on the state of affairs then? I mean you can handwave it away and go "well in this ludicrously unlikely scenario based on nothing that resembles reality whatsoever who cares what his morals are because they do not necessarily inform federal government policy at this point".

But to me it sorta feels like maybe we should care about the morals of people because they're probably a useful predictor in how they're going to act in different circumstances.

To me, the most likely play from Trump at this point is he kinda gets his wish about being a wartime president, because he could then incite a small-scale civil war. Either intentionally and maliciously, by saying these people are patriots and they're doing the right thing by fighting back against a malicious corrupt government that has unjustly rigged the election, or (more likely) through incompetence and buffoonery, by saying saying there are very fine people on both sides, maybe they have a point, who knows what the truth is, people should do what they think is right in the circumstances.

Any outcome where he does not immediately concede and say these people were wrong to do that and he personally guarantees the election was fair would be lighting a fire under it.

Because I cannot, under almost any scenario, imagine him using his platform to tell people to calm down and stop and that they're all Americans and should stick together.
11:38am 10/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24669 posts
Why is that funny? That is a tragedy.


It's funny because the previously revered 4th estate is destroying itself through greed and thirst for clicks - it's funny because they created Trump, and now they complain about it.

Where do you expect citizens to get this information from?


Find a source you can trust. Do your own research.

It's odd you think this doesn't matter when it certainly matters to one person, who can't help but bring how great and record-setting the ratings are, as long as he's the subject.


The ratings to Trump are an indication of how reliant the media are on him. He's reveling in the exact predicament the media have created for themselves.

Because I cannot, under almost any scenario, imagine him using his platform to tell people to calm down and stop and that they're all Americans and should stick together.


He would disavow such activity just as he did with Charlottesville. I think you are wargaming scenarios in your head out of wishfulness maybe?


But to me it sorta feels like maybe we should care about the morals of people because they're probably a useful predictor in how they're going to act in different circumstances.


Name one politician whose morals you believe are noteworthy.
01:26pm 10/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27020 posts
Find a source you can trust. Do your own research.
Such as convicted liar, George Papadopoulos.
02:10pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4088 posts
Let's say leading up to the next election in November he is sowing the seeds of doubt the entire time about it being a fair election process.



Oh suddenly questioning the legitimacy of elections is a huge taboo.

As though the Russian hoax wasn't exactly that on every major news station for 4 straight years.

The golden rule of these conversations is "it's different when we do it".
04:25pm 10/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6288 posts
Remember the good ole days when a President wasn't constantly whining about his coverage in the press, and answered questions without having a dummy spit and calling the reporter fake news if he didnt like the question?
Oh but they concede sometimes he goes alittle far when dealing with the media.

And with almost 80,000 American deaths, thats the result of a reasonable response, apparently. Low IQ types, indeed.
05:20pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4089 posts
And with almost 80,000 American deaths, thats the result of a reasonable response, apparently. Low IQ types, indeed.


By comparison to the rest of the G8 US performance continues to be reasonable vash.

They are tracking within 2% of Germany for deaths per cases.

They aren't the best response. But they are a long way from the worst. So "reasonable" is a perfectly valid description.
06:10pm 10/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39988 posts
It's funny because the previously revered 4th estate is destroying itself through greed and thirst for clicks - it's funny because they created Trump, and now they complain about it.
Well, I guess one person's comedy is just another person's tragedy.
He would disavow such activity just as he did with Charlottesville.
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments.
Name one politician whose morals you believe are noteworthy.
An interesting question! I guess I mostly approach it from the other way, by ruling out the ones that are clearly untrustworthy (e.g., because of repeated violations of the public trust, or just obvious moral black holes like those ones that are big religious family first types then get busted in the men's room making out with other dudes) and hoping the ones that are not just so blatantly stupid enough to betray their crooked natures might be OK. I'm an increasing believer in winning by not losing.

Trying to think of clearly good moral plays by politicians is tougher. John McCain shutting down that moron in a town hall who insisted Obama was a Muslim. There was another Republican governor I remember who was inspiring a while back but I need to think about what it was they did to look up who it was. Scott Ludlam's grace in standing down when he found out he was ineligible for office (mostly by comparison with the others that made it such a pain in the ass). Have to think about it some more.
06:26pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4090 posts
Well, I guess one person's comedy is just another person's tragedy.
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments.


Well seeing as that's not what happened the self destruction of the press is clearly not that bigger tragedy to you.

If it was you'd be willing to say what actually happened.
07:17am 11/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
860 posts
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments..


Do you know how many were there peacefully protesting a statue removal vs. there to incite violence via Antifa/white nationalists? I 100% guarantee you don't.
09:42am 11/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39989 posts
I reckon the Australian government should work with the reserve bank to use our overinflated housing market and our banks as a cushion for economic recovery - who is with me? I can't figure out how it would work though but I feel like there has to be a way, especially if we can figure out a way to trick all overseas holders into panic selling properties really cheap, then we can buy them, and then we can sell them back to them in a couple years. Come on brain trust!
10:49am 11/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1300 posts
Like a nationalistic policy to pass legislation for Australian government to wait till prices at an estimated low, and then purchase all property owned by non Australians and then trickle it into the current market, enough to cover costs. but not so much to disrupt prices too much?

Trog can't even read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.

Doubt that's a Greens policy. Seems more like something the red haired fish n chip shop lady would push for.
04:18pm 11/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24670 posts
Such as convicted liar, George Papadopoulos.


Like the entire Obama intelligence community?


https://i.imgur.com/aUAH6cJ.png

I was wondering why #Obamagate was trending today...

I reckon the Australian government should work with the reserve bank to use our overinflated housing market and our banks as a cushion for economic recovery - who is with me? I can't figure out how it would work though but I feel like there has to be a way, especially if we can figure out a way to trick all overseas holders into panic selling properties really cheap, then we can buy them, and then we can sell them back to them in a couple years. Come on brain trust!


A tax on foreign owners? It's already been done.
08:44pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27021 posts
I was wondering why #Obamagate was trending today...
Probably something to do with the 60 or so frenzied QAnon conspiracy tweets trump made today. And keep posting those Fox News screengrabs. Just a few more and you'll completely nullify the Special Counsel report that clearly demonstrates -

a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.
08:53pm 11/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24671 posts
I think you are about to get a rude surprise....
09:00pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27022 posts
BREAKING - JUDICIAL WATCH HAS PROOF OF OBAMA SPY CONSPIRACY ARREST WARRANTS IMMINENT etc etc? Because yeah there's a new one of those every week.
09:09pm 11/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6289 posts
Anything to distract from the disaster that is continuing to unfold. Obama must've hurt their feelings.
10:30pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27023 posts
Anything to distract from the disaster that is continuing to unfold.
Soon there will be a bombshell which will be ridiculed by all serious people but pushed hard by troll farm twitter. We're in a scenario where this only makes it more credible to the chuds because they believe there is a conspiracy between media outlets and the deep state to bring down trump because he's upsetting the natural order of things and they see him as a threat. Like this is literally what they believe. They have to believe it because if they didn't they'd all of a sudden realise a few nasty truths about themselves as reality fills the vacuum left by the departure of their cosy little fantasy world.

edit: and as I was typing that, trump was having his little tanty in the Rose Garden because questions are a little too hard for him today :(
07:21am 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4091 posts
Just a few more and you'll completely nullify the Special Counsel report that clearly demonstrates -

a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.


It's funny that the report can say the exact opposite of that and somehow fpot thinks he is like super smart.

If you keep repeating it it must be true. Just so desperate to believe Facebook posts are the only reason his team lost.
10:38am 12/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6290 posts
a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.


Its becoming more clear these are true, with Flynn being let off now.

The crying about Obama probably has something to do with him saying this

"There is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free," he said. "That's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic - not just institutional norms - but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk."


Also true. This administration just doesn't give a single s*** about rule of law, nor does the Republican party & its base.

Now lets await a flurry of further Obama crying from the folks here.
01:38pm 12/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39991 posts
A tax on foreign owners? It's already been done.
Less a tax and more of a surreptitious "let's try to make overseas investors the losers but not in such an obvious way that we're scamming them so they come back later and dump their money back here afterwards", kind of thing. Sadly I don't think there are enough of them to be a big enough buffer, so it might just have to fall on local property hoarders and banks. Banks & their shareholders might have to take one for the team for a few years.
02:06pm 12/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1301 posts
I don't think there are enough of them to be a big enough buffer


oh really?

But Trog can't read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.
06:19pm 12/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27024 posts
Maybe if you cry some more he'll notice you.
08:01pm 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4092 posts
.
Its becoming more clear these are true, with Flynn being let off now.


No it isn't.
"There is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free," he said. "That's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic - not just institutional norms - but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk."


Well there was that time Obama pardoned a general for Lying to the FBI he some how forgot about. Possibly while wearing a tan suit.

So except for that time he personally let someone of scot-free, no one has ever gotten off scot-free
08:14pm 12/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6291 posts
Now lets await a flurry of further Obama crying from the folks here.


Called it.

But Trog can't read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.


Try turning off your own echo chamber script. Might end up learning a thing or two.
08:45pm 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4093 posts
Called it.


Well if you didn't have double standards you wouldn't have any so it's not surprising you're ok with Obama doing exactly what he just said attacks a basic understanding of rule of law.

Of course that's generous. You don't know what rule of law means.
10:06pm 12/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39993 posts

OK I thought I had covered all the bases with the possible outcomes of Virgin but here is one I did not see coming at all: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-queensland-government-stake-virgin-airlines/12244152

On the surface this sounds like a f*****' stupid idea and should be thrown in the bin.

BUT, if they do it as part of a restructuring (i.e., in a way that means all the existing shareholders get totally boned and they can pick it up for bargain basement prices), I can see how it could be pretty interesting for QLD to have their own airline that has a lot of local routes + some international ones. They could subsidise routes into QLD vs the rest of the country, which means more tourism, which means more revenue.

I have no idea what the numbers would look like but it would be an interesting modeling exercise (how much can we discount flights & how much could we make out of it). Except one of their big international destinations is the USA and we prolly won't be accepting people from that virus-soaked hellhole for a while.


09:10am 14/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41467 posts
id rather qld government buy virgin than some overseas entity.
09:26am 14/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
861 posts
Oh man, resident Mensa scholars Vash and fpot must be loving this Flynn drama. That's probably why there's dead silence
01:10pm 14/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27025 posts
What? How in amongst the smouldering ruin of the US Justice system there's still a part that functions, and how that small part may actually help when the President of the United States of America wants to let one of his mates get away with crimes? Yeah a little false hope has been kindled by that but it won't last long because even if he can't get the charges dropped he'll just use the brute force method and pardon him.
01:14pm 14/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24672 posts
On the surface this sounds like a f*****' stupid idea and should be thrown in the bin.


throwing $200m into a black hole. uber dumb.
08:40pm 14/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39996 posts
throwing $200m into a black hole. uber dumb.
I want to see their spreadsheets. It's not only the bottom line of the corporation that matters for them but how much other economic activity they can generate by manipulating the travel network.

So it's more complicated (in fact I would say it's probably /so/ complicated it's literally impossible to model with any degree of accuracy, which to me is the biggest reason to not do it). (I think a few state-owned airlines follow this model although I can't remember which ones off top of head - Emirates do something, but they're in a different position because of their location & thus can be a good hub).

The competitive argument against Qantas I don't think is very interesting any more (I mentioned to some mates yesterday that the main reason I don't want this to happen is I don't want to have to read op-ends from Alan Joyce and Liberal party members wailing and gnashing their teeth in The Australian, until the end of time, which seems like a likely outcome). Airline travel is simply anti-competitive by its nature; it has a thin veneer of competition on some routes but generally each airline operates like a monopoly because they know people who need to get from A to B within a certain timeframe have no choice.

As usual, I would rather see the state plunge all that money into a HSR project. Let some dopey private equity firm pick up Virgin and scrape the bones clean.
08:44am 15/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4094 posts
it has a thin veneer of competition on some routes but generally each airline operates like a monopoly because they know people who need to get from A to B within a certain timeframe have no choice.


You might even say their services are more competitive than other modes of transport o_0.
06:46pm 15/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27029 posts
It would really suck if the person who you'd implemented a disinformation campaign against that faltered in mere days put the finishing touches on it simply by stating the obvious on national television.
03:11pm 17/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40000 posts

Mostly for Hogfather (if he dares come back) but this is what HK are doing with visitors at the moment: https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434 - basically they are testing everyone, putting them in a room for eight hours to wait for the test to come back, before they can leave the quarantine zone. Not sure how many people they are be processing now while so much travel is shut down. Lots of my friends & colleagues in HK are pretty keen for the travel restrictions to end so they can visit family/go home/go on holidays & I think would cheerfully sign up for that process if it meant they could go out & come back in.


04:22pm 17/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17014 posts
I worry about the efficacy of quick testing, given that (I have been told) the protocol at the moment is that multiple PCR tests are required for diagnosis.

Hong Kong being a major travel node in the region has a strong motivation to get international travel moving, much as Australia does for the education sector.

My personal bias is also very strong though - I'm an immunocompromised person who doesn't rely on a job to get by. Australia is essentially 'clean'. From my personal perspective the borders should remain closed until a vaccine is developed and it's 18 month efficacy and safety is demonstrated.

This may or may not be practical ;)
08:49pm 17/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40001 posts
I worry about the efficacy of quick testing, given that (I have been told) the protocol at the moment is that multiple PCR tests are required for diagnosis.
Yep, I think the false negative rate is something upwards of 30%. I think it comes down to a statistics game though; if you acknowledge in your models there are going to be some false negatives you can factor that in to your intake rate and adjust accordingly.
My personal bias is also very strong though - I'm an immunocompromised person who doesn't rely on a job to get by. Australia is essentially 'clean'. From my personal perspective the borders should remain closed until a vaccine is developed and it's 18 month efficacy and safety is demonstrated.
Yep fair enough perspective. I have respiratory issues (including asthma) and have apparently been boring the s*** out of my friends and family by occasionally mentioning things like "hey maybe this social distancing thing is a good idea" because I selfishly would like to stay alive.
08:31am 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24673 posts
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m. It gives people a false sense of security. Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
01:52pm 18/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41468 posts
but it works if people arent sneezing?
02:01pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27030 posts
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m.
*slow clap*
02:03pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24674 posts
but it works if people arent sneezing?


so does standing 30cm away, or just not touching others, then. i.e. what we have always done. the 1.5m is stated as a precaution against human particle expulsion which is not effective.

and in the meantime it is causing damage to businesses.
02:10pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27031 posts
the 1.5m is stated as a precaution against human particle expulsion which is not effective.
Source?
02:16pm 18/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6667 posts
I think the Global Pandemic might have a small role to play in the whole 'damage to business' situation.
Also, If you sneeze into your elbow and then accidentally bump into someone that's just 300mm away and easily in 'accidental bumping' distance, you have an increased chance of catching the virus.

Luckily though, it's 1500mm; Safely outside the range of accidental bumping distance. Safety for everyone!
02:17pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24675 posts

Source?
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/coronavirus-covid-sneeze-fluid-dynamics-in-photos/

There are oodles of medical sources... if you read.

The Queensland Chief Medical Officer admitted shutting schools not because it would slow the virus but to make a graphic point.
02:23pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27032 posts
Okay fair enough I wasn't very clear. I agree, with sneezing 1.5m distancing won't be effective. The 1.5m social distancing rules are mainly to cover the expulsion of particles during normal breathing, and it's more or less unanimous that it's an effective strategy. Do you disagree with that?
02:33pm 18/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40002 posts
1:
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m. It gives people a false sense of security. Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
2 (from a few days ago):
I have 3 ply civilian and KN95 masks for sale. Plastic shields if you are dealing with people expelling blood, and other droplets. Hand sanitiser arriving next week.


hmmmmmmmm

also:

social distancing, wearing a mask, along with washing your hands, not licking sick people's eyeballs, getting a flu shot, etc are part of a "defense in depth" strategy; you can't just cherry pick ONE of these things, do it, and think you are now covered so you can ignore everything else. the idea is to minimise your chances of getting sick AND minimising the chances of YOU making OTHER PEOPLE sick in case you are ALREADY sick and asymptomatic.

wearing a mask is a good idea because it helps keep other people safe if you are sick. but it's a better idea if you're already social distancing

so the only people I've heard say social distancing is a con job is either trying to sell me a mask or restart the economy, or both
04:06pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24676 posts
Okay fair enough I wasn't very clear. I agree, with sneezing 1.5m distancing won't be effective. The 1.5m social distancing rules are mainly to cover the expulsion of particles during normal breathing, and it's more or less unanimous that it's an effective strategy. Do you disagree with that?


The problem with that proposition is that during normal breathing, particle expulsion is virtually non-existant. The other problematic contact is physical contact.

Most infection would be eliminated by normal levels of personal hygiene well-executed with some process refinements (like hand sanitiser), eliminating direct physical contact and removal of sick+symptomatic people from public (as the particle spray is the super spreader).

No need to limit gyms, cafes, retail shops to 10 people, or restrict general movement....IMO

Planes are extremely problematic as there is no way to isolate someone who is symptomatic and it provides prolonged exposure.

hmmmmmmmm


Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.

you can't just cherry pick ONE of these things


One element of the strategy is destroying large elements of the economy for no benefit.
05:53pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27033 posts
The problem with that proposition is that during normal breathing, particle expulsion is virtually non-existant. The other problematic contact is physical contact.
This is a pretty special sentence. What is it with you people? You know viruses are very small, and the mist that forms on glass from the virtually non-existent droplets in your breath could contain thousands if not millions of viruses if you were infected right? And that if a person got too close, let's say within about 1.5m , that person could become infected?
06:16pm 18/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40003 posts
Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
people /have/ to go out. there's a whole category of some people who have to go out ('essential workers'), but even regular people like me have to go out sometimes to buy food. (I have been out three times since mid-March to interface with other humans to buy supplies.)

if you have to go out, you practice social [although I see health.gov.au now calls it "physical"] distancing to reduce your risk as much as possible, along with other things to help reduce spread, like wearing a mask to avoid making other people sick in case you are asymptomatic

it is false dichotomy to pretend that the two options are "go out" or "wear barrier protection"

One element of the strategy is destroying large elements of the economy for no benefit.
"no benefit"... ummm. there's a clear benefit, to the people that don't die. what you are saying is that you don't think, or you have evidence, that the number of lives saved outweighs the value lost to the economy?

"destroying large elements of the economy" is not an element of a "defense in depth" strategy. there is a difference between a choice of action (e.g., "wear a mask", "social distance", "wash hands"), and an /outcome/ of that strategy (e.g., "economic pain" ). edit: oh wait - I just re-read what you wrote and I get it. you're saying that one element of the strategy is responsible for. never mind

I would also argue it is not clear if they have been "destroyed" yet; it's possible that they might all bounce back quickly. (the long term damage on the government's books and the impact of printing money is what I am more worried about. also my actual job, which is currently making cool software to insure business loans, which now seems like it might be being done by governments!

(would you believe some economists have crunched the numbers on this whole "should we shut down to save the stonks" thing and have figured out that it's better, on a cost basis, to shut down the economy to take some short term pain now, instead of the long term economic damage that will occur when people die!@? ok at least in the US - the guy who literally invented the metric for what a US life is worth crunched the numbers and figured out that it's worth shutting down the economy. transcript for this episode of the Planet Money podcast from last month)
07:08pm 18/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4095 posts
This is a pretty special sentence. What is it with you people? You know viruses are very small, and the mist that forms on glass from the virtually non-existent droplets in your breath could contain thousands if not millions of viruses if you were infected right? And that if a person got too close, let's say within about 1.5m , that person could become infected?


Here comes the gold coast bouncer with the detailed medical knowledge.

Why is the virus not transmitted at 1.5 meters but 1 meter is dangerous?

I'm sure fpot has run the numbers ( or even knows where to find the numbers) to arrive at such a special knowledge.of virus is small.

What may not have floated through fpots empty head is that 1.5m is essentially arbitrary but you need *a* number if you are going to have a law. The US adopted 6 feet which is 1.8 meters. I'll bet 100 bucks the special thing about 6 feet is that most Americans can judge it easily and has nothing to do with any particular property of the virus.
07:24am 19/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41469 posts
howd america go with trying to preserve its economy vs fighting the virus?

its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.

also, liberty and rights, lolz.
07:43am 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4096 posts
America did lock down?

And better than most of western Europe?

its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.


That boat sailed when it left China. We won't ever get rid of the virus now.
10:42am 19/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40004 posts
its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.
The US is pretty much stuck with it now and just gonna be waiting for a vaccine, I think.

Even here in Aus, today a top story on ABC talks about how we might never get rid of it here in QLD, because there are 42 cases they can't track down. 42 is nothing and they think we might not ever get rid of it! The US is up to 1.5m cases and still no real sign of curve flattening.

There are too many of the "liberty and rights" brigade that will not tolerate the sort of lockdown that would be necessary to try to burn it out at this stage - I suspect at this stage the numbers might show there's just no getting on top of it without genuinely crushing their economy now.

They f***ed it up too badly with their initial response, from the top down.

(edit: feels pretty fkn defeatest to me for govt to say we can't get rid of it completely tbh given how low we've gotten the numbers, I get they wanna get the economy-ball rolling again as fast as possible but shrugging and saying O WELL I GUESS WE'RE STUCK WITH IT NOW instead of highlighting the need to keep being careful as things get back to normal seems weird)
11:09am 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4097 posts
There are too many of the "liberty and rights" brigade that will not tolerate the sort of lockdown that would be necessary to try to burn it out at this stage - I suspect at this stage the numbers might show there's just no getting on top of it without genuinely crushing their economy now.


It's always entertaining to see people whose rights are only minimally impacted/not impacted at all be cavalier with other people's rights.
12:13pm 19/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41470 posts
sure, no doubt there are some people having their libery's being impacted. then theres a whole heap of people who just dont like being told what to do, even if its for their own good.

australia has lots of people liek this as well.

they are idiots.
01:04pm 19/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40005 posts
actually looks like I am wrong, the US may have turned the corner in their curve; some new stats on death numbers. Look how good Australia is!
02:07pm 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4098 posts
sure, no doubt there are some people having their libery's being impacted. then theres a whole heap of people who just dont like being told what to do, even if its for their own good.


Reckon somewhere in those unemployment stats there are people who lost jobs because they can't work under the current rules and have something of a point that they should be allowed to go back to work now. Reckon they waaaay out number the people who just don't like being told what to do.

actually looks like I am wrong, the US may have turned the corner in their curve; some new stats on death numbers. Look how good Australia is!


Doesn't that graph say they turned a corner like 40 days ago?

Interesting afr articlecoronavirus shutdown did it go too far?

And just to prove the rule that you can find economists on either side of any argument.

University of New South Wales economics professor Gigi Foster says other hidden costs of lock down include the quality of life, people with other illnesses not receiving medical treatment because elective surgery was closed and people being too afraid to go to hospital, school closures hurting children from disadvantaged families and the recession slashing government revenue - reducing funding for healthcare such as for new cancer drugs to save other lives.

The lock downs "went too far", she says.

"The trade offs haven't been taken seriously and this is the biggest lesson I would like Australia to take forward," Foster says.


I wonder if NPR went out of its way to display the full character of the debate or chose economists whose views back an editorial line?
03:36pm 19/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17016 posts
Trump is taking 'the hydroxy', presumably against strong medical advice given that he has a history of heart disease, is clinically obese and geriatric. When asked he refused to name a prescribing physician.

This is your guy, team right. Very stable genius. Maybe he's lying again, who knows?

Hopefully this off-label usage won't spread in the States but ... you know.
08:11am 20/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
862 posts
Why would he expose his own physician to the vapid MSM in the US? I mean basic common sense tells you some of these answers pretty quick I would have assumed.

It is highly amusing though watching the cognitive dissonance of the left play out in slow motion

The left : Trump shouldn't tell people to take a drug. He isn't a doctor
Also the left : Trump shouldn't take that drug, it will kill him.

I would think I was a very stable genius as well if this was my opposition.
09:09am 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17017 posts
The left : Trump shouldn't tell people to take a drug. He isn't a doctor
Also the left : Trump shouldn't take that drug, it will kill him.

How are those statements at all contradictory?

He shouldn't take the the pills and he shouldn't promote the drug's use - both are contrary to the advice of his own FDA.

I'm legit lost here.
10:17am 20/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40006 posts
hogfather just relax and watch the sarah cooper videos

I have done a complete 180 and now eagerly look forward to each new trump speech
11:14am 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17018 posts
This forum thingy you made is clearly web 1.0 trog, no like button anywhere.
12:57pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4099 posts
Trump is taking 'the hydroxy', presumably against strong medical advice given that he has a history of heart disease, is clinically obese and geriatric. When asked he refused to name a prescribing physician.

This is your guy, team right. Very stable genius. Maybe he's lying again, who knows?


Vitally important that Cuomo not be held to account for forcing nursing homes to take diagnosed covid-19 patients.

Like at all costs we must not allow ourselves to look at decisions of actual consequence.

When the dust settles from this that and the decision to start cleaning subways daily in new York City in *may* are very likely to be the most significant decisions made during the whole crisis.
01:04pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17019 posts
Pretty sure that's called 'whataboutism'.
02:01pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4100 posts
Na it's called focusing on important issues over unimportant ones.

Why do you care what drugs Trump does or doesn't take? I can't see how it matters even a little bit.
02:07pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17020 posts
Nope.
02:39pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41471 posts
it is sort of a gauge of the mental capabilities of a person.

i mean id like to take a lot of medicines that probably wont hurt me, but using every fibre of will power in my body i resist (some days)
02:48pm 20/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27034 posts
The reason for this promotion of hydroxy is going to be something super mundane like financial gain in the end. trump is obviously lying when he says he takes it but it's one of his more dangerous lies. When he's up at the podium slurring away it needs to be remembered that he has literal worshippers. They post in this very thread. These worshippers will do whatever he says, and when he says that a dangerous drug is a miracle cure for a widespread lethal disease... well it's borderline criminal.
03:47pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4101 posts
Nope


Yep.

And frankly the focus on an irrelevance rather than on a decision with a quantifiable body count but reflects poorly on the wrong team is unsurprising.
04:31pm 20/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24677 posts
ABC News

More than 1,000 "high risk" health workers are set to be given daily doses of anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine to test how well it can ward off coronavirus.

"We're trying to move beyond opinion to generate rigorous scientific evidence," said rheumatologist Ian Wicks, from Melbourne's Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research.

Professor Wicks and fellow researcher Marc Pellegrini hope to recruit 2,250 "high risk" frontline and allied health workers around Australia for the trial.


Someone better tell them they will just be making Trump's mates rich.
06:47pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4102 posts
Those $1500 bucks of Sanofi shares are gonna explode yo.
07:33pm 20/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27035 posts
Why yes that article does say that it's an extremely dangerous drug, that there's no evidence it's an effective treatment for COVID and that trump's remarks about it are so dangerous extra restrictions are necessary.
07:40pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4103 posts
Why yes that article does say that it's an extremely dangerous drug, that there's no evidence it's an effective treatment for COVID and that trump's remarks about it are so dangerous extra restrictions are necessary.


Yes it says it can cause complications in known circumstances. So any drug.

You reckon it's

A) more dangerous;
B) exactly as dangerous; or
C) no where near as dangerous;

As deliberately exposing 80 year Olds to coronavirus while having excess hospital beds especially setup to deal with coronavirus patients?
09:10pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6292 posts

Studies say it has its uses, while you have COVID.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102587/

Taking it as a preventative is pretty stupid though, considering its a drug more risky than most. You'd want to use it if you're severely symptomatic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/health/chloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html

Deaths in a Brazil trial from Chloroquine, and heart issues with hydroxychloroquine in another trial.


10:53pm 20/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
863 posts

How are those statements at all contradictory?

He shouldn't take the the pills and he shouldn't promote the drug's use - both are contrary to the advice of his own FDA.

I'm legit lost here.


The same people telling everyone that they shouldn't take advice from someone who is not a doctor are in the same breath trying to judge that Trump is doing something unhealthy.

Again, really basic stuff.
06:47pm 21/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6668 posts
Don't take advice from someone that's not a doctor. Also Take advice from someone who is a doctor (telling you not to take a potentially dangerous drug that has no proven benefit.)

Only take Doctors advice. {And.} Take the Doctors advice.

Seems like the same page to me.
09:33pm 21/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17021 posts
The same people telling everyone that they shouldn't take advice from someone who is not a doctor are in the same breath trying to judge that Trump is doing something unhealthy.

Again, really basic stuff.

The Trump administration's FDA helpfully provides advice on the issue so that you don't have to be a doctor to be informed, and for physicians to stay informed. That advice is to not use 'the hydroxy' as a COVID-19 treatment or prophylactic, unless part of a clinical trial. The President's own words and actions say otherwise.

Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?
09:28am 22/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1302 posts

Unbiased news by our "most trusted" news service.

We're so immune to the constant uproar under Trump, this "scandal" was easy to miss.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-22/amidst-coronavirus-chaos-trump-wages-war-on-watchdogs/12269124

This article is listed as an "ANALYSIS" rather than "OPINION".


04:48pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4104 posts
Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?


The sum total of the issue is that Trump suggested the drug may be useful and the media must desperately "prove" him wrong.

this is the FDA guidance. It uses the following *permissive* language.

If a health care professional is considering use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine to treat or prevent COVID-19, FDA recommends checking www.clinicaltrials.gov for a suitable clinical trial and considering enrolling the patient. Consider using resourcesExternal Link Disclaimer available to assess a patient’s risk of QT prolongation and mortality.

Health professionals and patients are encouraged to report adverse events or side effects related to the use of these products to the FDA's MedWatch Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program:


Trump using the drug under the best medical guidance money can buy.

It is an absolute non-issue.
07:27pm 22/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6669 posts

Huh. FDA has a lot to say about it apparently. Even in the title link of the page you posted.

FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems
https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-information/hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-drug-safety-communication-fda-cautions-against-use

Good thing Trump has good doctors looking out for him. If only they had a healthcare system to look out for everyone over there.
07:58pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4105 posts
Yeah so the fact a drug has side effects does not mean it can't be used safely under medical supervision.

So for example in the FDA message again


Patients taking hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for FDA-approved indications to treat malaria or autoimmune conditions should continue taking their medicine as prescribed.
The benefits of these medicines outweigh the risks at the recommended doses for these conditions.
Do not stop taking your medicine without first talking to your health care professional and talk to them if you have any questions or concerns.


It still has those potential side effects for those patients. But use is still considered safe with appropriate medical supervision.

Which is true of all scheduled drugs.

If the guy was saying chug the s*** with a beer down the pub then *maybe* there would be a point. But that's not what happened.

What actually happened is that his doctor said the risks don't outweigh the potential benefits, so can't harm to try.

Which is consistent with the FDA guidance.

It's a f*****g ridiculous press s***fight the press is happy to indulge because they don't have to actual work.
08:35pm 22/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6670 posts
Ya, so lets tell everyone that they should run out and get on it. While we're on it, they should probably inject some disinfectant too. Also, get that Sunlight inside, through your skin or, you know, some other way.
08:59pm 22/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27036 posts
Don't forget to go back in time and not do anything differently, because while trump was downplaying the virus and telling everyone it was a democrat hoax windows of opportunity were being missed to isolate and contain which means we now have tens of thousands dead that shouldn't be. Nothing I'd change about that!

edit: and just as an aside, that news article Nmag helpfully posted shows that not only is he completely f*****g up the response in ways that nobody could imagine, he's also using the fog of the pandemic to further dismantle frameworks of accountability that he finds inconvenient. Can't really have people investigating things now can we?
09:14pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4106 posts
Ya, so lets tell everyone that they should run out and get on it. While we're on it, they should probably inject some disinfectant too. Also, get that Sunlight inside, through your skin or, you know, some other way.


Yep or you know take with medical supervision like the FDA says.

Non-issue.

Haha look at fpot. Delusional conspiracy theories often force you to hold totally contradictory views.

Trump is bumbling incompetent idiot but he is also using the distraction to completely remake the government.
07:14am 23/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6671 posts
Yep or you know take with medical supervision like the FDA says.


And then get on a national platform with a reach number of the billions and suggest other people should be doing it, even when you're not a Doctor? Then also saying you should look into injecting disinfectant?

Issue.
12:26pm 23/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4107 posts
No.

Why we still don't have a serious explanation of why the CDC couldn't mass produce or process tests in February but insisted on preventing independent labs from testing is an issue.

Why 4000 infected people were forced on nursing homes in new York knowing the elderly are particularly vulnerable is an issue.

The president discussing his medically supervised meds or avenues of research are non issues.

But if you want to engage in a round of backslapping every time this happens by all means help yourself. I'm just going to tell you that's what you're doing.
12:43pm 23/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27037 posts
I think the closest we've ever got to a conspiracy numpty admitting that hey maybe trump isn't the most brilliant president ever is when infi said that maybe sometimes he goes too far with things. That's quite telling I reckon.
01:56pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6672 posts
Hmm, if only they had a Pandemic preparedness plan or team available. I wonder what ever happened to them.
03:05pm 23/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4108 posts
They got moved into the department of health. But more importantly in the decade since SARS it never occurred to them to recommend removing the ban on independent labs testing for a disease when the CDC can't mass produce tests.
03:12pm 23/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27038 posts
It's now the pretty girl holding binders saying yep the plans are in these just don't ask any questions about what the plans are because if they say what we did the plans are wrong.
03:24pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1303 posts
Still raging about Trump... As if he's doesn't go too far sometimes. So many politicians don't go anywhere. He's outspoken antics likely won him the job.

Ohh nah sorry... frothpot the ANTI-conspiracy theorist says it's was RUSSIAN BOTS MAN!!

https://i.imgur.com/YI6GDNt.jpg
06:44pm 23/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
864 posts
Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?


You clearly can't. I explained it to you twice and you're still talking about the FDA like I said anything about it.
10:38pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41474 posts
01:40pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1304 posts

I can't afford to live in mum's basement while waiting tables between arts degree work. My daily late, youtube no-ads, stan, netflix, and the latest iphone costs money man. I'm not responsible for any of it... someone is to blame... Donald, Hasnon, Morrison.... I'll blame the boomers!!! and later, now that I've damaged my superannuation I'll scream about the entitlement of old age pension. Down with capitalism. This wouldn't have happened if the government owned and run everything and people dancing in circles with joy... just like in other comrade nations.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/12283866/data/accessing-super-early---age-data.jpghttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-25/coronavirus-early-access-superannuation-young-people/12282546


03:51pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41475 posts
touching your super early is bad juju. i hope people know this, but i suspect they dont.
05:15pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6673 posts
Silly WHO, saying a dangerous drug is dangerous;
The World Health Organization (WHO) has suspended testing of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine in coronavirus patients due to safety concerns
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-26/who-pauses-trial-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-coronavirus-patients/12285652

Maybe since they've stopped this trial they can move onto testing more important things, like injecting disinfectants
11:51am 26/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27039 posts
Who would have thought that the miracle drug peddled by a desperate, pathologically lying conman would turn out to be harmful? I am shocked.
12:59pm 26/05/20 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
2151 posts
You know what? It amazes me no one (correct me if I'm wrong) has changed their mind or view in years...so why bother arguing?...lol
02:08am 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27040 posts
Because it's an internet forum and it's kind of fun to argue despite being fully aware of how pointless it is. Actually interacting and engaging with these people irl is a different story. Very easy to sort out the scum so you know who to avoid. They're always the bitter, twisted, milquetoast types so they stand out.
02:47am 27/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40009 posts
I see we are already up to the point in my prediction timeline where the President of the United States is saying that the upcoming election is being rigged

edit: also Twitter is rigging it
10:03am 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4109 posts
Manged to gloss straight over the only important paragraph in that article there scooter.

Dr Michael Ryan, the executive director of the WHO's emergencies program, said the WHO was in "day-to-day" discussions with China about scientific inquiries into the animal origin of the disease.


Maybe they can move on to figuring out how China lost control of the disease and cost the world around 30% of global GDP.

edit: also Twitter is rigging it

Looking forward to howls of "voter suppression" from Stacy Abrahams being labled "potentially misleading"
10:05am 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27041 posts
That's when he's not busy accusing people he doesn't like of murder which is okay just some harmless marketing spin.
04:20pm 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4110 posts
Oh the guy who was comfortable with accusing a supreme Court judge with running a gang rape club in highschool has an opinion about accusing people of things for political purposes.
09:04pm 27/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1305 posts
fpot says
They're always the bitter, twisted, milquetoast types so they stand out.


What is there to be bitter about? Trump got in, crooked Hillary didn't even show up after losing, the losing team blames Russian bots in denial. Bernie just fizzled again. Now they have that guy with the alzheimer's. The last few years have been hilarious. Boris, Trump, Scomo. I think you could be projecting again.

Surely Jacinta warms your cold heart fpot?

It's disappointing that you are so angry.
10:49pm 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27042 posts
There's lots of different reasons trump supporters are constantly bitter. To be a trump supporter you need to be a spiteful, hate filled liar and people like that are never happy no matter what happens. The only reason to be glad about trump being elected is if you're eager for the cruelty and suffering he promises to inflict, either intentionally through sheer malice or unintentionally through vast incompetence.

You though, the archetypal s***-eating incel conspiracy theorist are bitter because you have a disease that fools you into thinking you're superior to others when you're just so comprehensively awful. A lying little s***heel so fragile you'll have mental breakdowns on an internet forum just because someone has decided to limit the amount of posts you can make. Someone so acutely aware of their own shortcomings that you'll tell mundane lies about being the sensible family man because you believe doing so will give you credibility. How can someone who engages in such bizarrely transparent bulls***ting not be bitter?

So go and chill for another 24 hours until you can post again. Then the Nmag healing process can start again where you lie on the internet forum, safe from the laughter and mockery you'd face if you ever tried it on people irl. Guessing that hasn't been a problem for you in a while.
11:41pm 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4111 posts
There's lots of different reasons trump supporters are constantly bitter. To be a trump supporter you need to be a spiteful, hate filled liar and people like that are never happy no matter what happens. The only reason to be glad about trump being elected is if you're eager for the cruelty and suffering he promises to inflict, either intentionally through sheer malice or unintentionally through vast incompetence.


Imagine typing that out and think yep,I'm crushing it. Trump is a uniquely malevolent force (who is also dumb and incompetent) at least until the next Republican president comes along, who will then be Hitler and Trump will be rehabilitated.

Oh and all his voters are evil .

We should also have a kinder politics.
07:14am 28/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24678 posts
I hope twitter gets a good smack over the nose. It is a great platform if it allows free speech.
08:38am 28/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40011 posts
I hope twitter gets a good smack over the nose. It is a great platform if it allows free speech.
spending the next few days watching libertarians tie themselves into knots advocating for free speech and spreading the (false) narrative that trump's free speech is being somehow impinged (by the saddest tiniest most pathetic little warning labels of all time), while at the same time desperately calling for harsh regulations on companies like twitter SOUNDS like it should be a fun time

but I bet it won't be

it might be interesting to read the slashdot thread on this topic and see how most of the audience there (mostly American, mostly free speechers, to the point it's annoying) are interpreting this as a direct assault by trump on free speech

here is another post about Youtube removing China stuff and you can see what they say when they feel "censorship" is taking place on a social media platform, lest you think the above is just them being anti trump or something (there are also tons of trump supporters on there which has always been weird)

this is kinda the sad twitter version of:

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/trump-chyron.jpg

trump should short twitter, temporarily deactivate his account, and cash in!! but he won't. why? because they will continue to let him peddle his bulls*** with zero repercussions. not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?

my guess is they're just going to potter along limply like they have been because they have no idea what to do, other than sit around and wish they'd remove him from the service years before he was president, like the rest of us do
10:32am 28/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41476 posts
i wonder if drumphs aides are kept up at nite worrying about what dumb wrong s*** hes going to tweet next?
11:48am 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4112 posts
not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?


They can either put forward they think objective reality is and live without all the privileges with respect to copyright they enjoy. Or they can be a platform with no editorial point of view.

They can't be both and any discussion that goes ho ho the 1st amendment does not apply to private citizens that doesn't address the special exemptions they get *purely* because they don't make editorial judgement is incomplete.
02:26pm 28/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27044 posts
spending the next few days watching libertarians tie themselves into knots advocating for free speech and spreading the (false) narrative that trump's free speech is being somehow impinged (by the saddest tiniest most pathetic little warning labels of all time), while at the same time desperately calling for harsh regulations on companies like twitter SOUNDS like it should be a fun time

but I bet it won't be
That's because there used to be a time when you thought things like that mattered. Where if you pointed out to one of these muh free speech numpties that hey, twitter is a private company so maybe their free speech to point out that someone is using their platform to spread harmful lies is also important would actually give them pause. But it's just bulldozer lies now. Lie, and then when those lies are exposed just lie again or cover them up with new lies. It's clever because it frustrates the people who actually care for the truth and fools the dumb into thinking that maybe if this person is so determined to say the same wrong thing over and over again it isn't wrong.
03:57pm 28/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6674 posts
Manged to gloss straight over the only important paragraph in that article there scooter.


Not entirely sure what that has to do with the topic of Trump claiming he was taking, and suggesting it was a good idea to take, a drug that has been known to be, and apparently proven, dangerous.

...but... ok?

Maybe they can move on to figuring out how China lost control of the disease and cost the world around 30% of global GDP.


The very next line after your quote suggests they are... As they should be. If only they didn't have to waste time they could be spending investigating China telling Americans not to do dangerous and stupid things their President is telling them they should do.
05:19pm 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4113 posts
Not entirely sure what that has to do with the topic of Trump claiming he was taking, and suggesting it was a good idea to take, a drug that has been known to be, and apparently proven, dangerous.

...but... ok?


A more accurate way to phrase that might be, Trump in consultation with the white house physician decided to take a drug with known side effects for a benefit that is currently the subject of studies which indicate it might be useful for the desired effect.



I'll refer you my earlier posts where I explain this is an empty meaningless press s*** fight, which apparently the ABC has decided they want a piece of.

The very next line after your quote suggests they are... As they should be. If only they didn't have to waste time they could be spending investigating China telling Americans not to do dangerous and stupid things their President is telling them they should do.


You mean like during December last year when it wouldn't be a purely academic exercise and aided the sole point of their existence? They've really been holding China's feet to the fire.

I wonder if remdesivir has side effects?
09:42pm 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4114 posts
not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?


Further to this idiocy.

Twitter's opening attempt to fact check Trump contains factual errors.

I mean I'm shocked. Can't speak for the rest of you. It could have something to do with 90% of politics is about choices that don't have objective answers. Could be worth think about something like that for 30 seconds before talking about political fact checking and "objective reality".
07:33am 29/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1306 posts
Again fpot demonstrates how angry and spiteful he is. You should get some help man.

Here is what Trog has done in the last few years:
- Hosts a political discussion on gaming forum with a view to push left wing views
- Gets irritated that it attracts more anti-left voters damaging the effectiveness of his echo chamber
- Created excel spreadsheet that returns "Vote for Greens" regardless of just about any choices you make
- Created script to share with users that blocks users from seeing non-left wing views
- Condones repeated abusive behaviour by fellow left wingers, contrary to forum rules
- Post limits people who call him on the above
- Has a tearful "I work so hard and no one loves me" wall of text.

It's a demonstration of immaturity. A common theme in marxist ideals.

You carry on about conspiracy theories and at the same time think I'm a smurf. rofl

See a professional. Your alcoholic drinking buddies can't fix you.

XOX
09:49am 29/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27048 posts
Yes because smurfs are just so uncommon and rare on an internet forum I am making such a leap of faith there. Meanwhile you type a giant list detailing a years long multifaceted Ausgamers trog-fuelled left-wing conspiracy and I just can't even. trog is the one of the only ones who actually spends time trying to converse with you people. Sometimes I feel kind of sorry for him because I think he thinks there's actually hope for you when there clearly isn't. But do please continue to cry more.
01:06pm 29/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27051 posts
https://i.imgur.com/rsfIdg9.png

It's a left-wing silicon valley conspiracy to silence the president.
07:59pm 29/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4115 posts
maybe we should listen to Elizabeth Warren about objective truth

Let's have her decide if something is true or not. She only systematically lied about being a minority for 30 years of public life without being challenged. Well until Trump teased her into getting a DNA test.
09:47pm 29/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6293 posts
The thank you at the end really tops it off.
Didn't think he could be losing it anymore than he already is, but here we are.
11:35pm 29/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40015 posts
https://trog.qgl.org/up/2005/wh.jpg

oh s***

this is happening

trump has no choice (or at least, no ability) to de-escalate. he literally started sockpuppeting on the whitehouse.gov account and twitter stomped it as well!

twitter has proven they're finally willing to up the ante. it would not surprise me if they have a war room of people thinking up new features to test over the weekend to try to glad-hand the dude a little bit more politely.

but I don't think they would have gone down this road without both eyes open and a roadmap about what they're going to do, up to and including the point they will disable his account for continuing to blatantly break the rules

Facebook have pussied out so I am in the processing of backing up my FB data with a view to deactivating my account this morning. I dunno if I'll go through with it, I keep up with a lot of friends and family that otherwise I have no connection to. but I think I've hit the wall
07:54am 30/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41478 posts
08:20am 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27052 posts
I deleted my facebook around the time of the Cambridge Analytica thing. It was cool, because now when I bump into people and ask them how they are/what they're up to I don't already know what the answer will be.

trump only knows how to lie, so there is no chance he will adjust his behaviour. I think it's important they leave his lies out on display so I fully agree with their approach. Soon he will start using his top sycophants to post his lies instead of merely amplifying them but I'm guessing twitter will be ready for that.
01:37pm 30/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41479 posts
lulz, i do hate that a bit fpot, talking to people about stuff i know they've done.
03:19pm 30/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4116 posts

trump has no choice (or at least, no ability) to de-escalate. he literally started sockpuppeting on the whitehouse.gov account and twitter stomped it as well!

twitter has proven they're finally willing to up the ante. it would not surprise me if they have a war room of people thinking up new features to test over the weekend to try to glad-hand the dude a little bit more politely.


lol Twitter has an opinion on glorifying violence but allow Ali Khamenei to preach genocidal anti Jewish hate with impunity. These are fundamentally unserious people.

Don't forget in order to stop the Nazis hate Twitter has now censored someone whose daughter is Jewish but not censored someone who advocates killing all the Jews.

And apparently trog is thinking of packing it in with Facebook because they won't do the same (objectively moronic) thing
04:06pm 30/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24679 posts
because now when I bump into people


MOSTLY FALSE
04:07pm 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27053 posts
So are you beginning to understand infi or are you still winning?
04:26pm 30/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1307 posts
09:34pm 30/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4117 posts
Reckon those deaths by left wing terrorism vs right wing terrorism since September 12 2001 been pushed around a bit in the last 24 hours.

I'm sure michael Moore will get "fact checked" as well.

to blatantly break the rules


You mispelt monopoly provider terms of service. But you know no biggie. Those anti trust suit are Gunna suuucks.
10:30pm 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27054 posts
12:02am 31/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4118 posts
Yeah cause stopping people trying to break into the Whitehouse by force is like police totally drunk on power.

What a f*****g deranged moronic air head fpot is.
08:42am 31/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40016 posts
Cool and normal.
Twitter should jump on that last tweet with a fact check; I just looked at that Muriel Bowser's tweeter and it makes it clear that DC police were, in fact, there and involved
10:11am 31/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27055 posts
Did they supply the vicious dogs or the ominous weapons?
01:40pm 31/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6294 posts
06:38pm 31/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27056 posts
Meanwhile COVID is still active and the spread will be a further consequence of these riots.
07:09pm 31/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1308 posts
Terrorists.

Here in Seattle we have ANTIFA members in with the protestors damaging property and causing the issues.
I'm watching Nashville right now. I'm convinced these people aren't part of our community.
from St. Louis and said the Ferguson stuff blew up out of control when tons of people that didn't even live there showed up.


People who can not contain their emotions. Triggered people, who are passionate and who let emotion cloud their judgement. Some of them likely had poor education and substance abuse.

We see it here, among us, in this thread. People who are passionate, poorly educated, and affected attacking any who do not support their hatred.

Sending hugs, thoughts and prayers to the haters. May Jesus shine his holy light on you.
09:30pm 31/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4119 posts
Twitter should jump on that last tweet with a fact check; I just looked at that Muriel Bowser's tweeter and it makes it clear that DC police were, in fact, there and involved


Yep Twitter need to fact check what the president could see from his window. Because that's like important when antifa goons are burning down cities and people on Joe Bidens staff are promising to pay their
bail.

that convenient myth of antifa means anti fascist so they can't be terrorists has been hopefully permanently blown up.
07:55am 01/06/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17031 posts
Has a political manifesto been released by 'antifa' in relation to riots?

Because we do know of one group of armed protestors that recently invaded government buildings to demand political change at gunpoint.

Also, interesting that this is your first comment on the whole issue. Was Floyd murdered? Is there an issue of systemic discrimination against black people, particularly regarding black males, in the US?
08:18am 01/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
865 posts
I love it how Vash puts a video of cops shooting people probably with rubber pellets up and says nothing about his best buds in antifa/BLM torching city blocks and bashing business owners to near-death. Anything to peddle the narrative. Useful idiot personified.
09:32am 01/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6675 posts
People who can not contain their emotions. Triggered people, who are passionate and who let emotion cloud their judgement. Some of them likely had poor education and substance abuse.


That's a fairly accurate description of Trump.
10:25am 01/06/20 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21586 posts
wouldn't mind getting shot with a rubber bullet to see how much it hurts
03:19pm 01/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24680 posts
right up there with tazing and waterboarding I bet.
03:22pm 01/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4120 posts
Has a political manifesto been released by 'antifa' in relation to riots?


Should take you about 10 minutes of googling.


Also, interesting that this is your first comment on the whole issue. Was Floyd murdered? Is there an issue of systemic discrimination against black people, particularly regarding black males, in the US?


Whether or not Floyd was murdered it doesn't legitimise burning down a bunch of houses and shops often owned by black males.

It's also interesting that this is your first comment on this, and it's too minimise the incontestable massive mob violence.
03:40pm 01/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27057 posts
I just hope someone remembers to salt the earth once the riots are done because holy f***, what a s***hole country.
06:35pm 01/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6295 posts
lil donnie had to hide in his bunker, poor guy must be terrified.
These riots are supposedly Antifa, i didnt think they had such a huge following.
whats coming next week?
09:58pm 01/06/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40018 posts
09:31am 02/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1309 posts
Hey I got a great idea. Lets import people from Africa and sell them as slaves. What a messed up nation. I doubt they will ever recover from that stupid idea. I've given slavery some thought over the years. If you had some slaves and you treated them really well, would the benefit be mutual?

Well at first the concept seems to work. Say I have a female slave and I treat her really well. She has time off, her own space and it's basically a job like a live in nanny. She sends some money back overseas. We take care of her. It all goes well for a while. Not all people could be trusted to treat them fairly. Eventually she wants to marry and have kids. I can't hold her back from that. So I house her husband and her kids in the servants quarters and now they both work for us. Eventually the kids get older.. where they going to go? I'm supposed to sell them, or hire them. So eventually I've become a "slave breeder". Breeding and selling slaves. I sell off her children and they get shipped away and their family unit is broken.

I breed birds and the babies eventually have to leave and go far away from their mum and dad. That's a bit sad. They are used to being a family unit and then it gets broken.

So I think slavery is a flawed concept even if you really wanted to treat them properly. It probbaly only works well if you are going to treat them poorly, which is not morally nice.

I think it's a poorly considered short term idea.

"Let's introduce foxes and rabbits so we can hunt them"

"Let's introduce cane toads to eat insects".

"Wow this South African Lantana plant looks great. Lets plant that in our front garden."
02:29pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27059 posts
Maybe if I type a whole bunch of weird nonsense people will forget I've just spent years supporting and defending a fascist piece of s***.

edit: https://i.imgur.com/DhVoDhk.png

Just another GOP member craving for the deaths of American citizens who don't like to be murdered and who oppose fascism.
04:37pm 02/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
866 posts
You literally just said they should salt the Earth after they finish rioting (in mostly black neighbourhoods by the way) you absolute s****tain. F*** me you're dumb.
05:00pm 02/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6296 posts
What on earth did Nmag just post?
I guess the mental gymnastics of attempting to rationalize donnie's actions is really taking its toll on their mental health.

It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?

https://i.imgur.com/CQdcrBn.png

Hint to donnie, if you're failing in the polls you start a war internationally, not domestically. It's in the Republican play book.
05:05pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27061 posts
So are you and Nmag the same person? Because I find it highly unlikely that we could have two frightened little incels who when lined up seem to have matching f***wit wavelengths. haha, just kidding. Following troll farm twitter has taught me plenty, and that is that weeping little incels are as common as muck and energised by their bible thumping fascist president. See you in 24 hours for another one of your pitiful comments, d***.

What I find so amazing about this situation are the people who are surprised about it. Since when did inevitability become surprising? How the f*** could you not foresee that a lawless, violent, sadistic narcissist handed so much power would abuse it, or allow it to get out of control? Just in case there's another person stupid enough to take what I literally said literally, I have no hope for the USA getting out of this, and whatever eventually arises from the ashes is going to be far worse than what we have now. Name one person in a position of leadership over there capable of turning this around and restoring the USA to what it once was. It was never anything great, it was simply a stabilising force that could be relied upon to act predictably and somewhat rationally. Now it's just a festering wound producing new kinds of pus we haven't seen yet. What a f*****g joke.

edit:
It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?
They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.
05:11pm 02/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4121 posts
I look forward to a cogent explanation of how

American citizens who don't like to be murdered and who oppose fascism.
justify setting a house on fire with children inside and then blocking access to firefighters because Trump and or racism.

It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?


Yeah more the "protestors" who have a hoodie and a mask and who gang bash random shop owners and loot.

The national guard has now been activated by 21 governors. 21 out of 50. The idea that it's just peaceful protests is f*****g insanity.
05:59pm 02/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6297 posts
They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.


Yeah, Antifa are minority group. It's convenient to think its all their doing. When in fact it's people who are simply fed up with police brutality & the Government.
06:46pm 02/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4122 posts
Who are also killing people, burning down houses with children in them and looting.

Antifa are minority group


Oh wait I thought they weren't an organisation.

Interesting how we've moved from they're literally against fascism to "not all" protestors.

Edit oh and now
antifa are attacking Jewish Synagogues and kosher bakers and deli

Those proud anti Nazis attacking Jews.

The post below is full blowen retarded. Fpot is living in a straight up dream world.
08:12pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27064 posts
Another funny thing - all the 2nd Amendment muh guns and freedom f****ticks who were forever banging on about how muh guns are so important because I need them to fight government tyranny are now pledging their support for the tyrannical government because it might give them a chance to shoot some of them ungrateful blacks who should be happy with what they've got.
08:20pm 02/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24682 posts

How many of those second amendment "f****itcks" have opened fire on the rioting and looting animals? Zero. They have been guarding their families and businesses from orgiastic violence.

You're accusing the US government of tyranny when it is in the literal opposite state - chaos - because of State governor inaction.

The pact between the people and the government is that the people sacrifice some of their freedoms so that the government will keep them safe. The US state governments have proven themselves incapable of protecting their citizens by letting these riots spiral unchallenged.

The rioters are black AND white. Their skin colour doesn't matter, their instillation of terror for 7 nights running does.



https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1267945466357927936


09:23am 03/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27065 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.

What you need to do is go back and make a note of every time you've mocked someone for taking a knee during a national anthem, or when you've promoted one of trump's lies about being the best president for black people in the history of the USA, or when you've participated in an #Obamagate conspiracy theory from your good friend convicted liar George because Obama just has to be a corrupt criminal because... he just has to be. All of the lies, all of the sweeping under the rug of the facts, all of the self-serving conspiracy theories fuelled by the prejudices of the dumb are whats causing this. No s*** the state's have it out of control - how the f*** do you control something like this? The trick is to stop it from happening in the first place, and the way you do that is by not having a nation controlled by a racist, pathologically lying conspiracy theorist. And people like you have been lying and promoting the lies of this person since they were elected, which makes you culpable.
01:29pm 03/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4123 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.


If you had the capacity for shame I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself.

It is *crystal clear* you don't care about racism at all. You just like calling people racist.

That man was murdered in cold blood by the supposed "protestors" who say black lives matter.

You are now at the point that air headed sloganeering trumps actual black lives.

What a profoundly scummy individual you are.
04:24pm 03/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6298 posts

Here we go again.
Its the Governors fault!@#

You might as well just not bother posting, Infi, and link donnie tweets.

Also,
The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/


05:45pm 03/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27066 posts
11:45pm 03/06/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41483 posts
can only imagine the Rona is blowing up deluxe during all of this protesting. America is really rooted and Drumph is at the wheel.

I wonder where the buck will stop?
04:28am 04/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27067 posts
Massive crowds also protesting in the UK, France and Amsterdam. It's going to be disastrous.
04:45am 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4124 posts
Also,
The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence


Strangely the article can't link to the report that says that. The f*****g fantasy land you morons live in.

Also just for you scooter

Silly WHO, saying a dangerous drug is dangerous;
the dog s*** study that formed the basis for the WHO's decision.

A Guardian investigation can reveal the US-based company Surgisphere, whose handful of employees appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model, has provided data for multiple studies on Covid-19 co-authored by its chief executive, but has so far failed to adequately explain its data or methodology.


At last the WHO is taking medical advice from L Ron Hubbard and Jenna Jameson. Everyone at that organisation should lose their jobs.
07:30am 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6676 posts

Wow, thats good Info. Good thing the University of Minnesota thinks it's bulls*** as well
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trial-results/

At least according to a study being published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The prevention trial released Wednesday showed 40 percent of the participants who took the drug developed side effects that were not serious — mostly nausea, upset stomach and diarrhea. The study found no serious side effects or cardiac complications, the researchers said.

Its findings reinforced those of previous studies showing the drug does not provide benefit against covid-19.

11:02am 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4125 posts
So just to clarify quickly, dangerous in this context means "may or may not cause nausea".

I'm glad we got to the bottom of it. I was reliably informed that the drug was dangerous and would definitely kill people.

Not so much apparently.

Also from your article

David Boulware, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Minnesota and the study’s senior investigator, said he launched the trial because hydroxychloroquine had shown signs in a lab setting that it might be effective against the virus.


So a drug with mild side effects which showed some promise in a lab went to clinical trials but didn't work out. That is the most gigantic non story I can think of in the context.

In any case hope you are keeping well.
12:08pm 04/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
867 posts
PP, we should maybe stand back and wait. The coronavirus is apparently very very dangerous. Retarded liberals like fpot and Vash think the protests are justified in the era of social distancing. We should let them go and protest, expose themselves to this apparently very dangerous virus, and thin their own herd out.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
12:53pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4126 posts
Nah.

If these protests do cause a second wave it will be the minority communities that bear the brunt of it.
01:19pm 04/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27068 posts
PP, we should maybe stand back and wait. The coronavirus is apparently very very dangerous. Retarded liberals like fpot and Vash think the protests are justified in the era of social distancing. We should let them go and protest, expose themselves to this apparently very dangerous virus, and thin their own herd out.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
Remember when these people actually pretended they weren't nazis and got all indignant when they were labelled as such? Really showing your red, white and black here strongly, incel.
04:19pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4127 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.


Every single time fpot calls someone a nazi just remember this is how he reacted to a black man being murdered by a violent mob nominally protesting police violence against black people.
05:28pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6677 posts

Because the quantity and length of the trials weren't testing for that.

But federal regulators have said it should be used only for hospitalized patients or in clinical trials, because of possible side effects including serious heart-rhythm issues.
The FDA is aware of reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, often in combination with azithromycin and other QT prolonging medicines. We are also aware of increased use of these medicines through outpatient prescriptions. Therefore, we would like to remind health care professionals and patients of the known risks associated with both hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or


06:31pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4128 posts
The WHO, meanwhile, resumed its trial of hydroxychloroquine, saying its safety experts concluded there was no reason to discontinue it.


Dude that is from the article you posted before.

The idea that it is an exceptionally dangerous drug and it is reckless to look into whether it has therapeutic value for covid-19 as far as I can see has no basis in fact.

*All* drugs have side effects and in the middle of a pandemic of new disease those are risks that have to be taken, even if only to rule the drug out.

The study checking for a preventative effect produced totally trivial side effects. If the risk of these heart conditions was so high as to rule the drug out for safety concerns it should have presented in those trials and apparently it did not.

That says to me, consistently with the FDA advice you just posted, that in certain known circumstances the drug can have dangerous side effects. Those circumstances can apparently be managed or avoided. Further that document as well as the study you just linked to suggest that in a lab the drug gave some indication it could be used in a preventative role or a therapeutic role.

Now if your argument is that Trump was overselling it's potential I don't disagree. Edit I'll even concede it would have been better to say something vague like we are researching possible helpful drugs but it's too early to make a meaningful comment.

But if your argument was that there was some colossal public health risk in saying the drug looks promising or even taking it under appropriate medical supervision then your argument is defeated by the material you yourself are posting.

Hence, as I have said *from the beginning* the whole debate is a straight non-issue.
07:18pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6678 posts
But if your argument was that there was some colossal public health risk in saying the drug looks promising


Not at all, because that's not what happened.
07:29pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4129 posts
So what do you think happened and what do you the likely and possible consequences of it have been?
08:27pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6679 posts
It wasn't a suggestion. Looking into injecting disinfectant could be taken as a suggestion, I guess... at a stretch... if you're being facetious.
Likely outcome? Many people taking it that shouldn't. Resulting in death. Because their president promoted it.
08:46pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1310 posts
09:09pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4130 posts
It wasn't a suggestion. Looking into injecting disinfectant could be taken as a suggestion, I guess... at a stretch... if you're being facetious.
Likely outcome? Many people taking it that shouldn't. Resulting in death. Because their president promoted it.


I don't understand what you're saying. He didn't suggest it but he merely saying this specific drug could work is a suggestion?

Where did he say just grab a box of this s*** and take it with out consulting a doctor?

Apparently even if he did say that the mostly likely outcome is nothing happening? A less than 50% chance of getting nausea and in extreme cases on a c***tail of other drugs heart issues.
09:32pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6680 posts
Where did he say just grab a box of this s*** and take it with out consulting a doctor?


He doesn't need to. As the President of the United States of America his voice, sadly, carries weight. There are a lot of vulnerable people that listen to him and would take his word (saying it's good) over a Doctors. You only have to look at people in our own back yard (Nimbin) to know they reject Doctors (vaccines) over whatever the f*** authority figure they chose to follow.

The short term lower dosage testing resulted in side affects appearing, rather quickly. Longer term use has had reports of far more serious issues. Enough that the FDA had to put out a statement of concern/warning as a result of the Presidents remarks.
09:42pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4131 posts
Well ok perhaps he should have been more mindful of the ignore doctors and take large doses of a drug for extended periods of time whenever the president says initial research (by doctors) looks promising in the treatment of disease you may or may not have (but can only confirm at pathology lab full of doctors) demographic.

Do we have much research on the size of that demographic?

I don't not accept that the President should not discuss something because there is a risk however remote someone somewhere could take a drug irresponsibly as a result.

But even if that really was the case what possible reason could a so called responsible journalist have to repeat for months on end that the president recommends the drug if stating his endorsement is itself dangerous?

It seems to me the newspapers can't possibly believe the mere presidential endorsement is dangerous and then proceed to publish that endorsement at every possible opportunity including amplify porn star based research on the drugs efficacy.

Edit. The lancet has now retracted that study.
see here

That's not a massive humiliation for the world's leading medical journals at all.
10:32pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6681 posts
He wasn't 'discussing' it he was promoting it as a treatment and a preventative. There is a large wide gap between promotion and discussion.
09:00am 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4132 posts
Until you can show me some tangible evidence a bunch of people took the drug with reckless disregard for medical advice you are discussing an empty hypothetical.

One that's is slowly proving more false as time goes by.
09:32am 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4133 posts
oh I'm glad you brought up the woman investigated for murdering her husband with fish tank cleaner.


From your article
A man in Arizona has died and his wife is in critical condition after drinking a small amount of a chloroquine phosphate product in hopes of preventing a coronavirus infection. Instead of the drug form of chloroquine phosphate, the couple ingested a chloroquine phosphate product that’s used to treat parasites in fish.


They are the same incident. So yes straightforward pure fake news.

Now before continuing I want you explain to me how Trump shouldn't endorse a drug because someone might ingest a form of one the chemicals *obviously not fit for human consumption* is a serious argument.
12:12pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6299 posts

The deadly violence continues by American cops

https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-two-buffalo-police-officers-suspended-after-violently-shoving-man-ground

Police brutality at police brutality protests. And a President who encouraged it. Good one, America.


02:29pm 05/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
868 posts
Wondering when these people so offended by suggestions by elected officials are going to come down on Eric Holder and Maxine Waters et. al. for suggesting that violence against conservatives is a justified course of action.
02:37pm 05/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27069 posts
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout
04:34pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6300 posts

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-political-science/article/trump-effect-an-experimental-investigation-of-the-emboldening-effect-of-racially-inflammatory-elite-communication/0335108B8E4AF36CBFFA1E45816C6143

This one is interesting

This article explores the effect of explicitly racial and inflammatory speech by political elites on mass citizens in a societal context where equality norms are widespread and generally heeded yet a subset of citizens nonetheless possesses deeply ingrained racial prejudices. The authors argue that such speech should have an ‘emboldening effect’ among the prejudiced, particularly where it is not clearly and strongly condemned by other elite political actors. To test this argument, the study focuses on the case of the Trump campaign for president in the United States, and utilizes a survey experiment embedded within an online panel study. The results demonstrate that in the absence of prejudiced elite speech, prejudiced citizens constrain the expression of their prejudice. However, in the presence of prejudiced elite speech – particularly when it is tacitly condoned by other elites – the study finds that the prejudiced are emboldened to both express and act upon their prejudices.


This might explain why theres a large increase in white supremacist terrorism. The bigots have come out of the basement.
05:00pm 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4134 posts
This might explain why theres a large increase in white supremacist terrorism. The bigots have come out of the basement.


Yep huge increase in white supremacists chanting f*** the police and looting louis vuitton and spray painting black lives matter on Synagogues.

Social science is such garbage.

The level of self delusion on display by fpot and vash is simply unbelievable. ANTIFA are literally burning down cities as we speak (almost uniformly democrat run cities) and some how those triksy white supremacists are too blame. It's happening in front of our eyes you morons.
05:20pm 05/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27070 posts
Yeah and that's really the only safe place for them to be. Thing is that they're out now, and they've had a little taste of the cruelty and hatred trump can spread so it will be hard for them to give that up. One of the great problems of the world that needs considering.
05:33pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6301 posts
09:01pm 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4135 posts

Butbut Antifa.


Known hot bed of white supremacism New York has a week long 9pm curfew after widespread street violence and looting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/nyregion/nyc-protests-george-floyd.html

But vash has an out of context photo, which explains everything.

27 people murdered in Chicago this weekend. Almost all black.

You are a f*****g idiot vash.
11:04pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1311 posts
Scooter clearly gets his news from some sensationalised cuck service. Trump hardly recommended people inject disinfectant. We went through this.

I hope they issue a s*** load of fines today in NSW.

The original organisers — the Indigenous Social Justice Association, the Anticolonial Asian Alliance and the Autonomous Collective Against Racism — have now publicly withdrawn from the event
"If people choose to disobey the Supreme Court ruling and attend the planned protest regardless, they need to be aware they are doing so unlawfully and police will respond accordingly."
Police will have the power to issue move-along orders if more than 500 people attend, with the option of also issuing $1,000 fines for breaking social distancing rules.


Forecast for Saturday:

MUCH TRIGGERING
11:53am 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27072 posts
I'll never get over hearing an incel call someone a cuck.
12:23pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4136 posts
https://i.postimg.cc/7h8z1Jp3/EZxmxf-TWk-AI0-D0q.png

That's a correction for the ages.

The newspapers of record *daily* prove why the get labelled fake news.

We reported a doctored video of less than a minute of speech as truth. Woopsie. Edit, oh and for some reason quote mines never happen to democrats in our pages. Totes just a slip of the pen.

I'm sure the Tweet of this will get fact checked. Very intelligent trog told me Twitter fact checking things was brilliant and not a way to permanently destroy it's credibility in less than a week.

Actually, while talking about burning institutional credibility to the ground in seconds. 1300 hundred "doctors" say breaking lockdown to protest racism is legitimate because racism is a bigger public health threat than coronavirus.

Science or something. Don't forget hogfather was enraged at the hubris of asking merely these people to research stuff. Palpably unserious stuff.

The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.
permalink
02:10pm 06/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24683 posts
- police brutality of any sort is abhorrent
- bad cops need to be removed and criminal abuse prosecuted
- people have an inherent right to protest, and be safe from harassment while protesting
- It's ok to wear BLM and MAGA gear or any other activist gear, and feel safe to do so.
- violent protestors will get arrested
- rioting and looting does not advance the social discussion, it's criminal opportunism

Which ones do you disagree with?
05:06pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4137 posts
- people have an inherent right to protest, and be safe from harassment while protesting
this is what happened to protesters two weeks ago
That's a father being separated from babies.

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/2d6a0bdaed3e7115ef70a8d2d08d1cf7?width=650No doubt the dudes a numpty. But none of our resident deeply concerned about justice folks said s***. Not one.

Other than the political sensibilities of the protesters what changed in the last 14 days.
05:26pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27074 posts
Hey look one of your dumb lists. Nice. All of the things in it are objectively correct btw so well done with that. The problem is the man you have chosen to deify has gaslighted, inflicted cruelty upon people and just outright lied for his entire term. This has eroded trust to the point where serious people are now unable to believe anything that he says. When he's slumped at the podium slurring out his whatevers about he opposes this and supports that, he's later retweeting a real piece of s*** ranting about the character of the person murdered by the police. While he hides in the White House bunker there's no hope in justice for all, let alone the reform required to satisfy the demands of the protests that are now worldwide.

I'm still wondering. Have you learned anything? Or are you still with the deep state and fake news conspiracy blah blah obamagate bulls***? Because you really need to stop being a spoilt little brat and perhaps grow up a bit, because until you get over that little fantasy there's no real hope for you either, and you're probably the least hopeless of the f***wit chuds on this board. I've seen the occasional glint of shame from you at times.
06:59pm 06/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24684 posts
Have you learned anything? Or are you still with the deep state and fake news conspiracy blah blah obamagate bulls***?


You should watch the Rod Rosenstein testimony for proof of how corrupt the surveillance of the Trump campaign was. A truly dark day for the US Justice Department under Obama's presidency. And the interesting thing is the spying was done by very similar personality types to yours. A flawed moral superiority which they believed entitled them to break laws to further some righteous purpose.

As reprehensible as you may think Trump is he is still rocking the rule of law. If he loses he will leave (probably ungracefully), this ain't no dictatorship and all the hysterical crying can't make any of these CNN/MSNBC claims true.
08:14pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27075 posts
Next time just type no dips***.
09:26pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4138 posts
This has eroded trust to the point where serious people are now unable to believe anything that he says. When he's slumped at the podium slurring out his whatevers about he opposes this and supports that


Is he talking about Joe Biden?

Also serious people. Uh maze ing.

Serious people like fpot who is incapable of thinking in deeper resolution than

duh Russia attacked America. der trump committed crimes. and then duh covered it up by having his attorney general release a confidential special counsel report


So serious.
11:34pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27076 posts


The 'shhhh' is pretty special.
12:49pm 07/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1312 posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantrum

Freud linked the tantrums to an unconscious need for punishment driven by feelings of guilt
11:34pm 07/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27077 posts
Are you a little bit gun shy when it comes to writing complete sentences after your embarrassing little meltdown the other day?
02:47pm 08/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1313 posts
Typical discussion with fpot

- Provide some simple dot points.
- fpot ignores points
- fpot projects with a huge paragraph of drunken abusive rambling.

Went went through this too and you ignored it also. Why would any non-leftie not be happy with the state of affairs. Look at the scoreboard. The voting outcomes conflict with the sounds in your echo chamber... or has it all been bots and russian tampering Mr AntiConspiracy?
11:33am 09/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27078 posts
Just look at these guys. They'll never be able to give this up. I'd say it's probably the best they've felt since they got their first erection but then quickly found out no-one will ever touch it for them. People are suffering, people are unhappy and it's just such a cool change that for once it's not them. mmmmm dat feels good. Get it while it lasts because it ain't forever, and when your support base of automated social media accounts stops telling you what to think and amplifying bulls*** for you you're going to be all alone in more ways than just one.
06:57pm 09/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
870 posts
Yes, now its fpot suffering with what is clearly a combination of a mid-life crisis, crushing low IQ and no doubt a dawning realisation that his very very mediocre best years are behind him. I do in fact enjoy it when these kinds of people are unhappy and suffering.
04:32pm 10/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1314 posts
Got to break things down for fpot:

fpot: Do you agree the voting outcomes conflict with the sounds in your echo chamber?
06:12pm 10/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27079 posts
Uhh yes I do, that's why the UK and US are both graveyards atm. To it's credit, the LNP have done a good job and pending the results of the spread caused by recent protests I'd almost be ready to declare victory in Australia (due care to maintain the victory required of course).

Do you think that that this thread would be less of an echo chamber if it wasn't just the two frightened incels and daddy's little dumb c*** posting conspiracy numpty bulls*** all the time? It's hard not to create an echo when all you're talking to are three empty skulls. To be honest, it's actually starting to get a bit boring.

edit: like honestly, can you just put me out of my misery and say yes, other cultures are polluting our white heritage with their oggady boogidy-ness. I fully support social programs to curb the proliferation of this cultural pollution with the ultimate goal of creating a pure white society where we can all live in bliss safe from the brown menace. Because once I hear that I can just brand you as nazis and be done with it. The dishonest way you use the lies served up to you that trump et al are actually pursuing something that isn't what I just said above is what irks me.

Or just continue lying and I'll continue to tee off. Either way is good.
07:28pm 10/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27080 posts
Also,

They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.
https://i.imgur.com/syg0fFJ.png

Anyone confused how this works?
07:45pm 10/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4139 posts
18 murders in 24 hours the most in 60 years, because police are tied up with looting "protestors". Actual black lives *do not matter to these people*.

edit: like honestly, can you just put me out of my misery and say yes, other cultures are polluting our white heritage with their oggady boogidy-ness. I fully support social programs to curb the proliferation of this cultural pollution with the ultimate goal of creating a pure white society where we can all live in bliss safe from the brown menace. Because once I hear that I can just brand you as nazis and be done with it. The dishonest way you use the lies served up to you that trump et al are actually pursuing something that isn't what I just said above is what irks me.


What is it about your sad little gold coast bouncer life that makes you so desperate for Nazis?
07:53am 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24685 posts
Utter lawlessness. Stay woke people, it's all that matters!
09:45am 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4140 posts
Better yet Dr Brix was saying the "protestors" have destroyed up to 70 coronavirus testing stations.

So not only are they actively spreading the virus they are actively undermining the countermeasures for the virus too.

And take a wild guess which community is gonna suffer most as a result? It will probably result in more black deaths than a decade's worth of police brutality, but middle class white tweens got to do the performative justice routine.

Vox got some column inches explaining how "defund the police" doesn't mean "defund the police".
09:57am 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27082 posts
Just checking in again, do you understand yet infi or are you still winning?
02:50pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4141 posts
Just checking in again, do you understand yet infi or are you still winning?


By this he means trump being president made a bunch of liberal tweens go and burn down black neighbourhoods to protest Trump's racism.
03:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24686 posts
Yes, I have learned, and am currently assessing which statues should be destroyed and popular culture icons cancelled in order to prevent further black single parenthood and black on black murder.
06:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27083 posts
It's the blacks fault!!!!
06:23pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24687 posts
I also plan to attend the next 1 hour mass protest to be organised during a dangerous pandemic but not assist those disadvantaged in any material way otherwise. It's doing "my little bit" to raise awareness.
06:34pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27084 posts
There's actually a really worthy discussion possible regarding the pros and cons of mass protest during a pandemic but not with dolts like you unfortunately. Here's one thing though, it would be far less dangerous if trump hadn't completely f***ed the handling of it resulting in 10000s of extra dead. Every person that dies as a result of that bungled response in these protests are his fault too.
06:41pm 11/06/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41484 posts
no no fpot you big silly, its the states governers fault!

all DRUMPF was trying to do was keep BIZNES running, because thats much more important than saving lives.
07:48pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24688 posts
you do realise Federal government has no control over states? Just like here. The New York Governor ordered COVID positive aged care patients be returned from hospital to their aged care homes, subsequently infecting and killing thousands of aged care residents. It's just horrific and had nothing to do with Drumpf. Riots and looting, all State Governors and City Mayors who control the Police and National Guard. Once again nothing to do with Federal government. Get educated.
07:57pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27085 posts
Everything bad happens because of not trump, everything good is because of yes trump. GET EDUCATED!
07:59pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24689 posts
Well it's that way in Federations. Switzerland is the same. Federal government's power is constrained by the Constitution. Don't let legal structures get in the way of your emotions.
08:05pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27086 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it? When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.
08:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4142 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it? When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.


What's most entertaining about that passage is almost all of it is a flat lie. But people like to wax lyrical about relationships with the truth.

But even granting the deranged dribble above, some how trump did all of that and the worst affected areas in the United states by far are run by democrats.

Texas and Florida have the same President, but a 10th the death toll.

Half of New York's deaths are going to be ultimately attributable to Cuomo's decisions about nursing homes, meaning fully a 6th of the total fatalities in US boil down to forcing nursing homes to take sick people. But drumpf or something.
09:21pm 11/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1315 posts
As I have previously explained fpot, I don't care for racial discrimination. I'd like our nation to attract the best immigrants it can. I don't care if they are green, orange or purple. Just the best. I understand we need to take in some charity cases. I'd prefer we moved the lever from "Anyone with an excuse" a little bit closer to "What can you offer our nation?".

Unlike your ridiculous and angry argument style I explain it in shades of grey and avoid absolutes. Absolutes are lazy generalisations.. like a racist might make.

Am I an incel or a daddys little thing?
09:53pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27088 posts
You mean like you've previously lied about. I remember the raw hatred displayed when you were talking about the Sri Lankan family seeking asylum. What made you angry enough to accidentally tell the truth that day? Friend-zoned again?
10:39pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4143 posts
How the supposed anti-racist responds to the single most violent day in Chicago in 60 years for blacks.

It's the blacks fault!!!!
Every person that dies as a result of that bungled response in these protests are his fault too.


Every extra person that dies from attending a mass gatherings while having been flat out told mass gatherings is the fault of the person who told them.

But better yet, maybe our resident f*****g morons can tell us how the "protestors" destroying coronavirus testing facilities is Trump's fault.
07:38am 12/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1316 posts
You're the one trying to make it about colour of skin fpot. They're que jumpers. Like I said, green orange, purple whatever. I think you might be the one applying stereotypes. Your perceptions are likely way off.
09:48pm 12/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27090 posts
You do realise 'queue jumpers' is an obvious dog whistle dumb people use when what they really mean are filthy browns who should go back to where they came from, right?
10:41pm 12/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4144 posts
filthy browns who should go back to where they came from, right?


Gee those racist slurs really do come easily to him don't they.

It's like he realises he can just say it anymore, but he really wants to. So if he says you think this he still gets to use his racist slurs. It's subtle like calling yourself anti-facist.
09:27am 13/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24690 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it?


Trump has mismanaged his areas of responsibility in relation to the COVID pandemic. The problem is that the raging dumpster fire of looting, civil unrest, police brutality and the extraordinary amplification of the outbreak in specific cities run by Democrat Mayors and Govenors, is 90% of the problem. A festering pustule that was there before COVID and before Trump was elected. The scenes broadcast on TV in the last month show the decline of American civilization. A bunch of anarchists can declare a section of a Democrat city a free state and the Democrat governor does NOTHING.

Holy s*** this is not the outback, this is in a major city. I don't see even the most piss poor Premier in Australia (Palaszczuk or Andrews) would tolerate a section of their capital city being overrun by anarchists.

When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.


America has shown that it gets locked down for 2-3 months and certain festering Democrat cities turn into Lord of the Flies. That's what will be studied over and over. How did America turn into a raging mob? And why did their State and Municipal authorities refuse to protect law abiding citizens?
04:50pm 13/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27091 posts
Mismanagement is what Cuomo did when he moved elderly people out of hospitals and back into aged care facilities. What trump did is more or less sabotage because he's afraid his miraculous economy would be affected by necessary COVID measures. There's a big difference. The main reason there was an extraordinary amplification in democrat run cities is because they're most populous. Not a 'festering pustule' as you put it (what?). Flyover states are having their turn now.

There was already roughly 100k dead from COVID before the riots/protests started. They were not in response to COVID measures but because the police murdered yet another black person and while justice did eventually did come (well, an arrest anyway) there's still infinity more arrests that need to be made. Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings against looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible? There was backlash against Milley, simply for stating that the American Military should be apolitical. Because when the military is no longer apolitical, what do you have?

No matter how you dance around it and avoid it because the truth is too hard for you to accept, what you're seeing now is the cheque trump wrote with all his lies and all his stirring of racial hatred and divide being cashed. It is absolutely exacerbated by COVID but it's only acting as a catalyst. You can only gaslight a population so long before they push back. trump needs to resign.
06:43pm 13/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4145 posts
Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings againstde. Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings against looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible? looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible?


So trog, scooter or hogfather are you willing to push back against this level of retardation? Because he speaks for you until you say he doesn't.

Until you are willing to tell fpot he is a f*****g moron, you agree with trump used chemical weapons on American citizens.

Not forgetting trog developed a script to block being told high speed rail between Melbourne and Sydney doesn't and never will make economic sense (this is "toxic behaviour" in trogs world).
If you want to be blocked by trog tell him an $80 dollar ticket means you need to achieve a construction price of less that $13 dollars per km between Melbourne and Sydney to be economically viable and he can't get his panties out of a scrunch.

Meanwhile fpot accuses trump of chemical warfare, oh there is a reason fpot is called fpot.
08:02pm 13/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1317 posts
He is the one making it about skin colour when it has nothing to do with it.

There are lots of white pommy backpackers in detention centres for overstaying visas and they also...

should go back to where they came from, right


fpot has got an immature simple way of dealing with things. People who do not fit his beliefs are at the polar end of his beliefs. In his mind ALL of these people share common values.
02:44pm 14/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27092 posts
Are there a lot of white pommy backpackers who sought asylum in Australia kept in detention centres indefinitely for years who should go back where they came from? The fact that there are still people trying to downplay Australia's treatment of asylum seekers in the bile spitting way you did is troubling. Here it is Nmag, in case you've forgotten -

They are not refugees. They are liars seeking to jump the que and have tried to enter the country illegally. They are welcome to apply for immigration the legitimate way. Instead they broke Sri Lankan Law when they left their s***hole country, and they lied regarding their status. They should be deported and sent an invoice for costs in processing and hosting them. The invoicing should be highly publicised to discourage others from risking their lives on the high sea. God forbid the boat they were in may have sunk and harmed the innocent children who are not willing criminals like their dodgy 3rd world parents.


Those words you typed there are at the polar end of my beliefs. I don't know what possessed you to type them when you've put so much work into this 'just my beliefs' bulls*** facade but it must have been pretty significant. Your favourite My Little Pony was killed off or something?
03:14pm 14/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1318 posts
I forgot you believed in a world without borders. Yep, the white pommy backpackers from their 1st world s***holes as well.

It is all beliefs. It's not a case of you are right and someone else is wrong. You act like a bigot towards just about anyone who does not agree with your political views. You are further demonstrating a lack of respect for yourself throwing around racial terms like that. Feel the pity.
03:18pm 15/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27093 posts
Dude all I jive on here are trump supporters. Anyone who supports trump is at the polar end of my beliefs and for good reason. You're acting like the things I disagree with are small quibbles but to still be a trump supporter requires extreme ignorance, extreme prejudice and an extreme amount of lying to pretend you aren't a complete piece of s***. There's no discourse possible with people like that, meaning people like you. Whenever someone does try to engage one of your kind it's always met with dishonest lying bulls***. I've never once seen a truthful response. What makes you think anyone would ever take you seriously?
03:33pm 15/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4146 posts
The fact that there are still people trying to downplay Australia's treatment of asylum seekers in the bile spitting way you did is troubling
requires extreme ignorance, extreme prejudice and an extreme amount of lying to pretend you aren't a complete piece of s***.
trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible?

Jive away in dreamland

I often wonder if people like fpot helped or hindered the refugee situation. In general it seems fair clear they hindered and badly.

Since 1998 there has been one parliament majoring won while supporting ending mandatory detention for boat arrivals (which has been Australian policy since the early 80's).

You'd think losing 6 from 8 elections would tell you something about whether you're moving the dial or not.

But the guy who says Trump used chemical weapons has an opinion about ignorance, prejudice and lying.

Just adorable.
02:49pm 18/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27094 posts
So I know we live in the post truth age and that most serious people are more or less desensitised by things that would once consume a weekly news cycle are now page seven blips, but Bolton's claims are alarming. trump endorsing Chinese concentration camps, soliciting Xi for help in the upcoming election plus everything else is truly extraordinary.

How will conspiracy numpties deal with this? Will they absorb this new information and perhaps think to themselves it's time to accept the fact that trump is an overwhelming force for bad? Or will the defensive mechanisms kick in, and they'll feast on the Russian troll farm twitter supplied lies about how Bolton is a disgruntled employee making up lies about his former boss who is actually really great!

I'm sort of torn between whether Bolton is a coward or just played it smart for some pretty sweet cash. His testimony would have changed nothing - the Senate were never going to convict no matter what. Not what I'd choose personally but I can see the temptation and how it would be a hard thing to resist.
08:07pm 18/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24691 posts
Trump refused to start a war with Iran like Bolton wanted and now Bolton writes a nasty fake book. Zzzzzz
08:13pm 18/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27095 posts
Bolton sure is a war warmongering piece of s*** but the key points in that book are a fabrication? Nonsense.

Do you remember the first time you denied reality? Was it a big moment for you like a hitman's first kill? Or was it just like a natural bodily function? If it was the former do you remember what it was? Something you knew that was true, but to accept it as true you'd need to adjust or update your world view in a way that is inconvenient. I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you. What makes this all worth it? What are you hoping for at the end? You still don't really think trump is going to make America 'great' do you?
08:22pm 18/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4147 posts
Trump refused to start a war with Iran like Bolton wanted and now Bolton writes a nasty fake book. Zzzzzz
--


Pretty clear why he wouldn't testify under oath now.

Do you remember the first time you denied reality? Was it a big moment for you like a hitman's first kill? Or was it just like a natural bodily function? If it was the former do you remember what it was? Something you knew that was true, but to accept it as true you'd need to adjust or update your world view in a way that is inconvenient. I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you. What makes this all worth it? What are you hoping for at the end? You still don't really think trump is going to make America 'great' do you?


You just got jived on infi. Is it sticky?

You reckon when trog talks about accepting the outcomes of elections do you think the Russia hoax floats through his brain?

Lot of people who are worried about Trump not respecting the outcome of an election seem to really have a thing for ginning up foreign interference claims.

trump endorsing Chinese concentration camps, soliciting Xi for help in the upcoming election plus everything else is truly extraordinary.

How will conspiracy numpties deal with this?


I mean this level of derangement shouldn't be possible.

Trump "endorses concentration camps" in secret talks but publically backs sanctions against china for Uyghur treatment. It's like the perfect crime.

Like is there any point at all at which you go "hey I wonder if I'm being told what I want to hear".
09:55pm 18/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24692 posts
I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you.
I love the irony of self-righteous types accusing others of collusion when they actually manipulated law enforcement and surveillance processes themselves, corruption at the highest levels of the incumbent government.

I love the irony of white activists for the disadvantaged espousing more discrimination, segregation and racism to redress historical wrongs.

I love how the left-wing liberals of Western society used to be freedom loving peaceful people but now triumph hate, intimidation, canceling, harassment, violent protest.

I love how Trump nonchalantly trotted into politics as a side gig and dismantled the entire two-party private society. He wins the MVP in in his rookie year brushing aside every political insider effortlessly and it DEVASTATED the Democrats who predicted a 99% Hillary win.

The end-game for me is to expose the faux caring left-wing politics of socialism as an ideology of selfish-interest, jealousy and hate. These activists whether they be BLM or climate change or Gay Pride, inevitably at the highest level pursue two things: power and wealth - just like everyone else. And this is the most glorious hypocrisy of them all.

Trump is just the man of the moment, he tapped the Zeitgeist.
11:51am 19/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4148 posts
The utter self assured self righteousness combined with obvious deep ignorance is very very enjoyable to watch.
11:56am 19/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27096 posts
So blah blah blah left-wing socialist deep state fake news conspiracy and oh boy they're so mean to us I just want to get even with them for saying how dumb I am all the time. Did you slam your dad's office door and turn off the lights after typing that one out?

Ever considered critically thinking just once and perhaps learning like, one thing? Have you ever actually learned one thing? It would be a watershed moment for you I reckon. Kind of like if your two incel buddies managed to have sex with a willing partner without paying. You'd learn that one thing, and then you'd learn another thing and so on. Aren't you sick of just saying and thinking what you're told to say and think?
12:25pm 19/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4149 posts
So blah blah blah left-wing socialist deep state fake news conspiracy and oh boy they're so mean to us I just want to get even with them for saying how dumb I am all the time. Did you slam your dad's office door and turn off the lights after typing that one out?


Gee it'd be really mean to point out that fpot is a middle aged single gold coast bouncer who is pathologically jealous of infi.

That would be beyond the pale of "forum banter".

Ever considered critically thinking just once and perhaps learning like, one thing? Have you ever actually learned one thing?


There it is.

The utter self assured self righteousness combined with obvious deep ignorance is very very enjoyable to watch.


Every damn time. So tasty. Fpot is so good a critical thinking he thinks Facebook memes are an attack on the nation.

How can we possibly compete with the dizzying intellect.
01:27pm 19/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27100 posts


How does the press gathering not burst out laughing? Maybe to actually hear something so ridiculous from a place where serious things used to be discussed by serious people actually makes you feel a little sick.

infi, I'm still a little stunned you're claiming Bolton's obviously true detailed accounts of trump's behaviour are a fabrication. I feel as though we're into some new stage of conspiracy numptitude here. What happens when the stories are corroborated and proven to be true? It's that situation again. I don't know whether you know the stories are true and are just clinging on for some reason or if you do actually believe your own bulls***. Again I'll never find out. I think it's the former though which is why I asked what it's all for which is apparently to strike back at the gay pride people for wanting more money and power. Sounds like a pretty legit reason for half a decade of truly bizarre behaviour and belief changes. Are we getting close to the bottom yet or are you an even bigger f***wit than I can imagine?
06:22am 20/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4150 posts
infi, I'm still a little stunned you're claiming Bolton's obviously true detailed accounts of trump's behaviour are a fabrication.


Oh a clearly selfserving paraphrase of what trump said from a Chinese interpreter for the Chinese delegation is "obviously true".

Pro tip corroboration which starts with "an anonymous source says" isn't corroboration.

Also
How does the press gathering not burst out laughing? Maybe to actually hear something so ridiculous from a place where serious things used to be discussed by serious people actually makes you feel a little sick.


Jim Acosta a serious person discussing serious things. Good one.
01:25pm 20/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1319 posts
What a d*******.
06:27pm 20/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27101 posts
Well I'm off for dinner (lamb shanks)) with my busty blonde blue eyed brainiac wife who earns an obscene income.
Why yes that is how a normal truthful person speaks.

It's pretty obvious you'd love to prove me wrong on that one and make a fool out of me. There's plenty of ways to do that without doxxing yourself if you were actually being truthful. Funny that you haven't.
06:59pm 20/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27102 posts
Nice coward edit f***wit.

Trump: "You're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down please.'


Just gonna update more or less sabotage to literally sabotage.
09:47pm 21/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
871 posts
Things fpot can't deal with:

- infi having more success in his little toe than he will ever have
- outcomes of special counsel reports that contradict his sad narrative
- the reality that he is a middle aged bouncer with no future

and now

- people editing their own forum posts

What a nightmare it must be in that pin head
08:58am 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27103 posts
I have been owned.
01:48pm 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27104 posts
Like, it would be droll for me to mention that trump had his corrupt AG obstruct justice for him AGAIN by firing SDNY US Attorney Berman. Everyone gets it, trump is committing flagrantly criminal acts in plain sight. Shut up we already know etc

Background in case anybody does care
02:24pm 22/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4151 posts
I can see where fpot gets it from. If you just say "authoritarian" over and over it must be true.

My god the hysterics in that article.

Flynn is going to be acquited, and his case is the example of authoritariansim, not it's acquitial. The article is the literal reverse of reality.
02:42pm 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27105 posts
Usually I can tell how egregious trump's criminal acts have been by how long my little chief cleric reply guy takes to add another thick black line to the thread for me to ignore and this one was rather snappy.

Since I'm here, trump's elite team of cyber specialists were hoodwinked by a bunch of tiktok teenagers. Imagine if they were targeted by say, an advanced state-based actor that specialises in cyber warfare. I reckon they'd stand up well. Setting my watch for this one as well ;)
02:49pm 22/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4152 posts
Usually I can tell how egregious trump's criminal acts have been by how long my little chief cleric reply guy takes to add another thick black line to the thread for me to ignore and this one was rather snappy.


That's not how "ignoring" works.

It's entertaining to me to watch an air headed dogmatic moron shriek ever more hysterically Trump is Hitler, based on ever more idiotic and straw clasping "evidence".
03:48pm 22/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
872 posts
Imagine if they were targeted by say, an advanced state-based actor that specialises in cyber warfare. I reckon they'd stand up well. Setting my watch for this one as well ;)


You mean like how the DNC email servers were hacked by "advance state-based" actors lol.

You literally don't remember what happened 5 minutes ago, do you?
09:56am 23/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1320 posts
You're not worth the effort fpot. You appear to be a loser with a chip on your shoulder.
11:59am 23/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27106 posts
Omg, a bubuubut her emails post. That gets me feeling all nostalgic and s***. Thanks for that.

lol, 'not worth the effort'. Makes me think back to those multiple giant wall of text meltdowns. The problem with you is your lies suck because you're really dumb. Keep trying though.

edit: oops. You're talking about a different email thing from four years ago. Yeah the democrats sure are s***. What of it?
01:33pm 23/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4153 posts
Naw the Queen of meltdowns(to the point he's too fragile to read why his Russia fantasies are deranged) has an opinion about meltdowns.
08:55pm 23/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
873 posts
fpot mocks Trump admin for being too weak to protect against "advanced state-based actors", forgets he blamed Trump for Russia allegedly hacking the DNC email servers, complains about whataboutism because he totally misses that the point is that he is a retard.

You'd struggle to write a more incompetent Looney Tunes antagonist.
11:35am 24/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27107 posts
You're really scraping that barrel for things to attack me with aren't you little buddy? Are you jealous that I get fresh new unprecedented acts of stupidity and incompetence to run with on a daily basis whereas you're permanently stuck in 2016? Must be frustrating.
12:50pm 24/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1321 posts
Ohh why would I make stuff up? You invent enough about me all by yourself. Apparently I'm one of many aliases in this thread, which is BS.

A review of ABC News Australia:



ABC is funded mainly by the Australian government and in 2018 funding for ABC was cut by $84m. The website does not feature advertising.

Analysis / Bias

In review, ABC News uses emotionally loaded headlines pertaining to US Politics such as this “Donald Trump kicked off his re-election campaign by making socialism into 2020’s dirty word.” ABC News has a section under world news dedicated to US news titled “Trump’s America”, with most stories being Anti-Trump. When it comes to national politics, ABC News publishes articles with loaded headlines and criticizes the center-right government “Scott Morrison said all the right things after Christchurch attack, but his history tells another story.”

Overall, we rate ABC News Australia, Left-Center Biased based on story selection that moderately favors the Left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and being a certified fact checker. (12/9/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 3/24/2019)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/abc-news-australia/

ABC contributes to TDS
05:46pm 24/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27108 posts
Ohh why would I make stuff up?
Because you're a compulsive liar and narcissist.
05:59pm 24/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4154 posts
Are you jealous that I get fresh new unprecedented acts of stupidity and incompetence to run with on a daily basis whereas you're permanently stuck in 2016?


Sounds like a good argument until you remember the newspaper that said Barr is a fascist is also deeply concerned aboutNazi bronies

There is just a chance such a newspaper isn't serious about Nazis.
08:39pm 24/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1322 posts
you're a compulsive liar and narcissist.


You're making it up as you go.

Do you really believe you don't have TDS?
12:14pm 26/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6302 posts


muh freedom of speech guyz
07:26am 30/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
874 posts
Is it hard lifting your head up off your pillow every morning Vash with that pencil neck of yours?
08:07am 30/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4155 posts
muh freedom of speech guyz


Muh "peaceful protestors" peacefully setting fire to a church.
08:42am 30/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27110 posts
graph showing the drastic rise in US COVID cases compared to other previous hotspots that make them look tame in comparison
detailed multi-confirmed reports of trump either wilfully ignoring or just not bothering to read intel about Russian bounties placed on US military and hilarious videos of the pretty girl lying about it and declaring trump the most well informed person on the planet
screenshot of trump retweeting a video of some soon to be dead of COVID guy yelling white power calling them great people that was up for three hours
reports on trump attempting to ban two books in two weeks that are uncomplimentary of the regime. This is what actual banning of books look like for those who were confused


and so on.

Once upon a time it used to be kind of fun to gloat about how s*** trump is because it was interesting to see what lengths the chuds would go to to buy themselves time before they're forced to say 'oops'. If the best the USA could do with their sputtering, disjointed leaderless initial response was the catastrophe we've already witnessed what can we expect this time? At least for the first round you had a mostly compliant population. Now you have massive protests that wouldn't have happened if the police would have taken just a small break from murdering black people coupled with a giant section of people who seem to think the virus is some sort of hoax, or something not to be feared who treat not wearing a mask or taking basic cautionary steps a badge of honour.

It's just all really dark and hopeless. The absolute best case scenario is that Biden gets elected so the rotting at least can stop, but what then? No way has he got the moxie to reverse the situation and it's impossible to know just how bad it will be by November.
06:58pm 01/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1324 posts

Those nasty capitalists. We need more government control.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-01/bunnings-stops-selling-victorian-native-timber/12412328

Bunnings stops selling native timber from state-owned VicForests after court ruling


These communists know how to enjoy nice weather. Look at them laughing and dancing.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12281532-3x2-xlarge.jpg
10:06pm 01/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
875 posts
In the heat of TDS, fpot goes on to support a neo-con warmonger Bolton because orange man bad. Stunning and brave.

How many unarmed black people vs unarmed white people per capita are killed by police, fpot? Do you even know that incredibly basic statistic?
08:29am 02/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4156 posts
You would think after 4 years of anonymous leaks about rascally Russians unraveling usually within days, even someone as flat out retarded as fpot *might* get wise to the trick.

But apparently not.

I love how we get lectured about how Trump might not accept the outcome of the election and he "paving the way for it now" but somehow, screaming Russia will steal the election through the cunning use of Facebook ads does seem to count as "not accepting the outcome of elections".
10:12am 02/07/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27111 posts
Can't really help but notice that this thread is a bit of a cycle of posting terrible Overton window breaking s*** trump does on almost a weekly basis followed by weak attempts to deflect by the same people every time. Yeah I'm aware of that statistic dazed and provided it's true I find it to be a highly acceptable murder rate so yeah all good what was I thinking. All is well!
01:18pm 02/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
876 posts
NYC announces defunding of police to the tune of $1 billion, 100+ people immediately shot. This is why it's funny when you make retarded claims about how much you care about police brutality.
09:49am 03/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1325 posts
The cycle continues. fpot is due for his 3rd rage quit and then creeps back to this thread cause he can't help himself. The TDS's in his head are too much to contain.
01:43pm 05/07/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27117 posts
https://i.imgur.com/ffer22R.pngdetails

No need for further comment. Conspiracy numpties will be in here soon with their usual brain dead spin.
07:58pm 12/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
877 posts
My only spin is I am glad you are true to form and stomp your feet about something you know absolutely nothing about.
09:54am 13/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4157 posts

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/07/13/new-york-city-shootings-nypd-anti-crime-unit-eric-adams-tony-herbert/

Funny how the antiracist types around here and elsewhere always go a little quiet when the can't use black deaths.
07:47am 15/07/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24697 posts
Don't the police target and oppress minorities though?
09:31am 15/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4158 posts
Depends on whether you ask middle class white activists or actual minorities apparently.
01:18pm 15/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
878 posts
DeBlasio and Cuomo have done nothing but kick own goals this year

Let coronavirus patients into nursing homes

Defund police

Those are two once-in-a-generation f***ups that have happened in the space of 6 months.
10:56am 16/07/20 Permalink
Vash
6303 posts


lol. classic ad
10:18pm 20/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1327 posts
Does it stimulate the TDS affected parts of the brain releasing endorphins, promoting self righteous manic behaviour?

Do you watch it with confirmation bias switched to overload or maintain an objective view?
01:52pm 24/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4159 posts
BuT WhAt If TrUmP wOn'T aCcEpT tHe OuTcOmE oF tHe ElEcTiOn

And if Trump wins a second term—especially if that victory relies on another rural surge to overcome massive opposition across the big metros—the chaos in Portland might look like only the preliminary skirmish for an even more incendiary collision to come.


If extremely left wing cities are forced to accept they don't dictate terms for the entire country....
11:00am 25/07/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27119 posts
Why is that picture remarkable enough to post?
07:46pm 28/07/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6683 posts
Maybe because they have better trigger discipline than the private mercenaries?
07:50pm 28/07/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24698 posts
Armed militias all round. What can possibly go wrong...
08:57pm 28/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4160 posts
Nothing infi. Nothing could go wrong because they aren't racist cops.

Now that the cops have been defunded gangs of men with ak-15's provide perfect justice.
07:48am 29/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1329 posts

Maybe because they have better trigger discipline than the private mercenaries?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2020/07/26/TELEMMGLPICT000235814271_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpeg

I doubt it. If you know much about the firearms they are carrying you can zoom in and see the numerous humorous anomalies. I think you need to apply some of that critical thinking that our philosophical forum spammer goes on about. If you knew much about firearm fatalities, you would know they are most likely to shoot, in order:

- A family member
- A person known to the owner
- Another black person

Black militia member accidentally shoots his comrades during face off with Three Percenters in Louisville - as leader demands truth about Breonna Taylor's death in four weeks 'or we'll burn this motherf****r down'

Three people were injured in downtown Louisville when a member of an armed black militia group carrying semiautomatic weapons accidentally discharged a firearm as they marched to a demonstration.

Despite earlier reports that the shots were fired as a result of an argument between the group and a far-right organization gathered nearby, it was later confirmed that a member of the Atlanta-based ‘Not F*****g Around Coaltion' (NFAC) had accidentally fired on other members as they assembled in Baxter Park.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8559841/Black-militia-members-brandish-guns-demanding-charges-against-cops-linked-Breonna-Taylors-death.html

Your input is about as cute as Vash. It's likely you will grow out of these marxist views like most mature adults do.
01:21pm 30/07/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17037 posts
Popped back in, nothing was lost.

This could be a good thread with interesting discussion but holy s*** you guys suck.

Back to the pruno!
02:23pm 30/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4161 posts
Has a political manifesto been released by 'antifa' in relation to riots?


Did you spend the ten seconds of googling required to look this up?

Or were you too worried about ad hominems.

but holy s*** you guys suck.
10:30pm 30/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4162 posts
well this is a little bit interesting
Turns out hydroxychloroquine is safe and effective for use in treatment of covid. I look forward to hearing more about being "blinded by political bias". Best part is this study isn't written by a porn star and science fiction writer who won't share their data.

As professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health, I have authored over 300 peer-reviewed publications and currently hold senior positions on the editorial boards of several leading journals. I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines. As a result, tens of thousands of patients with COVID-19 are dying unnecessarily. Fortunately, the situation can be reversed easily and quickly.
I am referring, of course, to the medication hydroxychloroquine. When this inexpensive oral medication is given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control, it has shown to be highly effective, especially when given in combination with the antibiotics azithromycin or doxycycline and the nutritional supplement zinc.

On May 27, I published an article in the American Journal of Epidemiology (AJE) entitled, "Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk COVID-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis." That article, published in the world's leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients, plus other very large studies that showed the medication safety.
In the future, I believe this misbegotten episode regarding hydroxychloroquine will be studied by sociologists of medicine as a classic example of how extra-scientific factors overrode clear-cut medical evidence. But for now, reality demands a clear, scientific eye on the evidence and where it points. For the sake of high-risk patients, for the sake of our parents and grandparents, for the sake of the unemployed, for our economy and for our polity, especially those disproportionally affected, we must start treating immediately.
07:27pm 06/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24699 posts
As he states in the article, HCQ has become politicised. And if we know one thing, it's Democrats would rather die than be proved wrong.
08:37pm 06/08/20 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
2152 posts
What do you fellows think about COVID-19? It worries me. Why? I have had 4 heart attacks, lung damage, 60 years old and am in no way capable of surviving it. Don't give me that about higher fatalities in the flu either. I can die from that too. I have flu and meningococcal pneumonia shots every year so I can at least reduce the risk somewhat. Luckily I'm retired so I only visit Woolies, Kmart and most of the time I'm at home on the bay.
08:54pm 06/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27123 posts
It's the great disaster of our time. I'm grappling with the possibility that a vaccine will never be developed and the rest of our lives will have to be lived with caution. It's kind of hard to believe that one won't when the entire world is focused on developing one. I'm aware they are fundamentally different but there is no vaccine for HIV for instance.

In the past the USA would have served as a real beacon of hope with it's wealth and technological prowess. Now it's a hotbed of conspiracies and miracle cure pushing numpties so instead we'll just use it as an example of exactly not what to do and learn from it that way. Most of the world are dealing with a deadly highly contagious disease but the effects in counties like the USA and Brazil make it seem like some supernatural Stephen King inspired ultravirus. Funny how false bravado and bluster don't mean s*** when the real problems arrive
09:12pm 06/08/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41494 posts
DRUMPH - "LOOK AT MY POWERPOINT SLIDES"
08:06am 07/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4163 posts
it's Democrats would rather die than be proved wrong.


Well that's not quite right. They'll let a significant fraction of the public die, skin in the game isn't their thing.

Most of the world are dealing with a deadly highly contagious disease but the effects in counties like the USA and Brazil


Interesting choices there isn't it. Sweden seems to have had the sheen taken off it but we musten talk about that.
08:36am 07/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24700 posts
One thing I know is that humans don't hide forever. We will be back to globetrotting, conspicuous consumption and blowing each other up in no time.

Vulnerable people (elderly, lung conditions) should minimise their interaction with the public and always wear a KN95 respirator when out and about. (You can get them at my store, COVIDGEAR.)
09:58am 07/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1331 posts
Biden "Look at my.. oh umm... What were we talking about again?"

Looking forward to some Biden-Trump live debates.
12:00pm 07/08/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41495 posts
do agree biden is a shocker.

just shows how broken america is. surely there is a more competent democrat. someone, anyone :(
04:50pm 07/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4164 posts
Andrew Yang could have had a red hot crack.
05:52pm 07/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1332 posts
The slanging match will be kind of entertaining even though Trump is kind of annoying.

Trump:

"He's following the radical left agenda: take away your guns, destroy your second amendment, no religion, no anything, hurt the Bible, hurt God," Mr Trump said.

"He's against God."


Biden:

"Ahh I better reply to Trumps stupid comments. What was I going to reply to? Thanks for typing this up, best you send this to the media cause if I have try and just talk about it I'll.. what were we talking about again?"
04:21pm 08/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6304 posts
Smart pick by Biden. This election should be interesting
10:41pm 12/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4165 posts
Yeah genius pick. The woman who peaked at 7% of the primary polling and flamed out with out securing a single primary vote.

That person will almost certainly assume the presidency when Biden is removed under the 25th amendment, because his brain is runny custard.
08:56am 13/08/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41498 posts
Yeah genius pick. The woman who peaked at 7% of the primary polling and flamed out with out securing a single primary vote.

That person will almost certainly assume the presidency when Biden is removed under the 25th amendment, because his brain is runny custard.


further proof how broken america is, when smart, forward thinking, good people arent popular.

yet a racist, stupid d*** like drumph is the leader.
09:47am 13/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
879 posts
Uhh, she polled 7% IN HER HOME STATE, before she even got to a primary in that state because she was so unpopular everywhere else. You gotta love the cope happening from the left already. Loading a sinking Biden ship up with deadweight like Indian-American turned African-American BLM-loving ex-cop who said Biden was a sex offender Kamala Harris is next level.

Andrew Yang could have had a red hot crack.


Honestly if it was Tulsi Gabbard with running mate Andrew Yang I would think the left would be in with a shout. Unfortunately for them they seem incapable of picking non-establishment candidates.
10:17am 13/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4166 posts
further proof how broken america is, when smart, forward thinking, good people arent popular.

yet a racist, stupid d*** like drumph is the leader.


Yeah so forward thinking she withholds evidence in death penalty cases.

If you think she is anything other than shallow careerist hack spouting Twitter trends you've got the problem not America.

She's also Schrodinger's Medicare advocate.

And Schrodinger's bussing advocate.
10:48am 13/08/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41499 posts
lucky drumph is such an upstanding citizen!
01:56pm 13/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27127 posts
further proof how broken america is, when smart, forward thinking, good people arent popular.

yet a racist, stupid d*** like drumph is the leader.
I was going to post something but this pretty much sums it up.

I'll make a dumb prediction though - the reason trump golfs so much is because recording devices don't work on a golf course.
02:40pm 13/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4167 posts
lucky drumph is such an upstanding citizen!


Who has *ever* said he is. But for all his faults, multiple instances of burying evidence while pursuing the death penalty isn't one them. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to detect the issue with being personally responsible for executing black people while screaming black lives matter. But for some reason I'm hearing that person is "forward thinking".

So contrary to your thesis, I put it to you the American population seeing straight through an hollowman like Harris is proof the American system is working *just fine*.

Fpot with the tinfoil cucumber.
03:37pm 13/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
880 posts
Can someone remind me how many Middle East peace deals the Obama administration brokered in 8 years vs how many civilian hospitals bombed? Asking for a friend.
12:01pm 14/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27129 posts
12:25pm 14/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27130 posts
Rumors have been flying around regarding trump sabotaging the Postal Service in an act of voter suppression but I kind of like to stick to things that have been confirmed. trump makes it very easy when he simply admits it himself -

"They want three and a half billion dollars for something that'll turn out to be fraudulent, that's election money basically. They want three and a half billion dollars for the mail-in votes. Universal mail-in ballots. They want $25 billion, billion, for the Post Office. Now they need that money in order to make the Post Office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots," Trump said, repeating his false claims that mail-in voting would be "fraudulent."

"But if they don't get those two items that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because you they're not equipped to have it," Trump added.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud to justify this action. trump is committing voter suppression in plain sight.
08:25pm 14/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4168 posts

BuT WhAt If DrUmPh WoN't aCcEpT tHe OuTcOmE oF tHe ElEcTiOn.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/84000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-election/

"No evidence voter fraud is an issue in postal elections"

uh oh spagehtios, Ex-F.B.I. Lawyer Expected to Plead Guilty in Review of Russia Inquiry


12:01pm 15/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
881 posts
I ask how many peace deals Obama facilitated in the Middle East vs how many drone strikes he oversaw on civilian hospitals.

fpot talks about something that happened after Obama left office in response.

It's literally a special education class.
08:56am 17/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6305 posts
Butbut Obama! Dazed and confused indeed.
02:50pm 18/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27136 posts
fpot talks about something that happened after Obama left office
Imagine doing such a thing!
03:13pm 18/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4169 posts
I wonder how many conspiracy theories fpot can sign on for between now and November.

Trump using the Postal service to steal the election. But I guess if you think Russia stole the 2016 election anything is possible.
05:40pm 18/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
882 posts
https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5d10ca5f34a5c40008494411/960x0.jpg?cropX1=145&cropX2=979&cropY1=0&cropY2=625

$4.8 million house of Kamala Harris, whose ancestors were slave owners. fpot and Vash would love to hit her up for reparations prior to the November election right?
10:09am 19/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27139 posts
Uh oh someone's a little bit antsy knowing that someone who is black, and even worse a woman (!) might be taking the job previously held by a pure white christian man soon.

And yeah assuming what you say is true she can pay reparations, whatever. Why would I give a f***?
12:52pm 19/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1333 posts
fpot spreads "rumours". The rest of us spread "conspiracy theories".

"fascist" is a right wing thing.

COVID vaccine likely to be mandatory in Australia, Scott Morrison says after signing deal with Oxford University


Fascism!

I'm looking forward to seeing the antivax and conspiracy theorists comment on this one.

Get a parking fine? Fascism. These things wouldn't occur in a Marxist nirvana.

I found out this week that the Aboriginal flag is trademarked. Oh my. Evil capitalists at it again.

Bill Gates
Rona
5g
Rona Vaxortism
Basement Biden

Entertaining times ahead for this thread.
03:38pm 19/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27140 posts
It's quite amazing because it actually makes less sense the more times you read it.
03:54pm 19/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4170 posts
Fpot doesn't advocate for black women often. But when he does it's for black women who execute black men and don't care too much if their running partner is a rapist (after saying she "believes" Biden's accusers).

The meltdown when Trump wins is going to be *uhmazballs*.

The claims of voter suppression because there was no universal mail in voting (for the first time in us history) are going to fattening.

Don't forget these absolute morons likened themselves to GIs storming Normandy, but are afraid to vote in person.
08:17pm 19/08/20 Permalink
Kudos
Sydney, New South Wales
1070 posts
I'm not convinced that Harris was a good pick for Biden.

Tulsi savaged her during the primaries on her track record (others here have mentioned the whole withholding evidence to keep people incarcerated). She showed poor judgement by backing Smollett and referring his incident as a "modern day lynching". She called Biden a racist during the primaries and in a recent interview laughed that off as being "part of the debate".

She isn't likable. Not Clinton unlikable, but still pretty bad.

Also, I wonder what the BLM activists think of a former 'cop' as the potential next VP.

(The viewership numbers for the DNC convention were embarrassingly low too.)
'
12:26pm 20/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6306 posts
Tulsi wouldve been better for sure. But anything is a good pick over the opposition at this point.
I wouldn't put it past the U.S to put Trump in again though, despite the failings that would take a wall of text to list.
07:20pm 20/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27141 posts
For the first time in American history if you were to pick someone above the age of 35 at random you'd be a good chance of choosing someone better suited than the current POTUS. It's amazing how weak the Democrat candidates were/are at a time when they really needed to be at their strongest. It's either them or the USA will somehow become more of a catastrophe than it is now. More riots and runaway covid19 deaths would be inevitable of course, but having just witnessed the last four years it would be foolish to try and predict the ways trump could f*** up another four. A perfect storm of sadistic malevolence, gross incompetence and f***wit surroundedness could occur and satisfy the morbidly curious regions of my brain but there's no way it will be worth it in the end.

One thing to remember is there are loads of people that actually want that to happen because it will actually be a good thing because.... uhh deep state fake news conspiracy or something.
08:23pm 20/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6307 posts


Thats not what he meant!#&
10:11pm 20/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4171 posts
It's amazing how weak the Democrat candidates were/are at a time when they really needed to be at their strongest


It's like he is on the cusp of self-awareness. Yeah it really is remarkable how they chose someone who sounds like brick tamlend and someone almost as disliked as Hillary to run. Might have impact on the outcome. Who can say?

I love how trump supporters need to "accept the outcome of elections". But more rioting will be the outcome if Trump wins.
09:07am 21/08/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2041 posts
fpot, so if there's riots if Trump wins, the riots will be Trump's fault for winning? Destroyed property, businesses, and lives - well you shouldn't have voted for Trump, Americans.

Maybe it's just me, bit of a crazy idea, but you know who I'd blame for any riots? The rioters.


Vash it swings both ways. Both sides have been accusing the other of the same crap. It's not new or unique to one party... If we win, the other side won't accept the outcome. If they win, they cheated and stole the election.
Just 2 days ago in her DNC speech, Hillary Clinton:
"So we need numbers overwhelming so Trump can't sneak or steal his way to victory."
12:29pm 21/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1334 posts
Yes, the Dems lineup is s***. Last time it was Trump, Clinton or Sanders. Are any of them really that amazing? No.

Does this stuff get too much air time in Australia.

YES.
03:32pm 21/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27142 posts
fpot, so if there's riots if Trump wins, the riots will be Trump's fault for winning?
For the last four years trump has made every effort possible to erode trust and integrity in the government. I'm not talking about the base level distrust everyone should have in government, but a malignant distrust that's grown out of control. There is only so much obvious criminality and immorality a nation's population can witness before things get out of control which are the riots we're all witnessing now. Do you really expect people to just peacefully accept trump's flagrant criminal acts and to accept the zero repercussions for them so far? Because I certainly wouldn't if I was a citizen over there. Witnessing it from here I just feel sadness and a rather superficial sense of anger about it. If I was American the feelings would be much stronger.

I guess if you're someone who is just pretending that trump's time in office has just been a slightly erratic one and that the accusations against him are just some fabricated deep state conspiracy you would be inclined to blame the rioters. At this point I find it unfathomable that you could feel this way unless you are excited about the idea of an openly racist, lawless autocrat being in charge. There's no real middle ground you can stand on anymore where you can say you're an unprejudiced person who respects the rule of law but thinks trump will make things better through his extensive business knowledge. The cruelty and racism are all he has and all he has ever had. It's been the point this entire time.

trump has already said if he loses we'll have to wait and see if he accepts the outcome or not. trump has already been caught cheating by extorting foreign governments to fabricate false stories about his current political opponent. There is no mystery or nuance to unravel here. If you're after that head back to 2016. Everyone's cards are on the table and they're face up.
06:40pm 21/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4172 posts
. Do you really expect people to just peacefully accept trump's flagrant criminal acts and to accept the zero repercussions for them so far? Because I certainly wouldn't if I was a citizen over there. Witnessing it from here I just feel sadness and a rather superficial sense of anger about it. If I was American the feelings would be much stronger.


Can this deranged moron name a *single* crime Trump is supposed to have committed?

Just one.

I mean we know the answer because meaningless drivel like the following is all he ever, and I mean *ever* spouts.

There's no real middle ground you can stand on anymore where you can say you're an unprejudiced person who respects the rule of law but thinks trump will make things better through his extensive business knowledge. The cruelty and racism are all he has and all he has ever had. It's been the point this entire time.


Just ask him to square burning down innocent people's shops and homes with "respect for rule of law".
09:09pm 21/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
883 posts
For the last four years trump has made every effort possible to erode trust and integrity in the government.


Take a minute to recognise this brilliant intellect is unironically making this statement in a period when FBI agents were on record saying they couldn't let another Trump happen, the Obama administration was on record using known bogus FISA warrants to spy on an opponent and that the head of the FBI leaked his own memo in an attempt to facilitate impeachment.

It's no wonder the left is in the state it's in in the West and they end up with Biden/Harris on the ticket. You have antifa flying the flag and useful idiots like fpot too lazy and too dumb to actually look into anything clogging social media.
09:25am 23/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27144 posts
It's a deep state conspiracy, a fake news conspiracy and it was the democrats all along. Do your research! 9/11 truthing 2.0.
01:27pm 23/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
884 posts
Nah just things that actually happened and weren't thrown out in a very clear and very public way like the Russian collusion hoax was with the Mueller report that you still haven't read or even accepted the conclusion of.
11:40am 24/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24702 posts
This is so entertaining. I'm lovin it! Can't wait for the debates.
02:41pm 24/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27146 posts
dazed how many years did it take you to grow out of being a 9/11 truther? Except I guess you didn't really grow out of anything because you're onto this one now aren't you. F*** you might even still be a 9/11 truther cos you're dumb as s***.
08:25am 25/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4173 posts
dazed how many years did it take you to grow out of being a 9/11 truther?


What's particularly enjoyable about capitan threat to democracy but I can riot if I don't like the outcome of an election talking about truthers is now an FBI lawyer has now plead guilty to fabricating evidence about Trump Russia collusion.

Kevin Clinesmith is going to jail. And he won't be the last.
10:40am 25/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
885 posts
fpot will literally say and do anything to avoid having to justify his arguments because, let's face it, his arguments are orange man bad arguments and he knows full well he can't substantiate them
11:45am 25/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27147 posts
So uhhh have you grown out of it yet or not? I know at one stage you used to froth about how the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is controlling us with vaccines. Where are you on that one?
03:07pm 25/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4174 posts
So is the postmaster general in bed with Putin to steal the election by posting 40 bucks of Facebook ads champ?
07:08pm 25/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6308 posts
^so close. He almost became self aware. Just apply alittle critical thinking and you're almost there.

And its no surprise dazed thinks that way. right wingers just continually prove they'll eat up any conspiracy theory.
08:48pm 25/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24703 posts
09:12pm 25/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1335 posts
I just want to remind anyone who's kind of dumb and wants to vote Greens cause they are nice and want to help people and the environment, that:

The Greens are a Marxist haven for communists and socialists. Marxism is a fundamentally flawed political system.
09:32pm 25/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4175 posts
so close. He almost became self aware. Just apply alittle critical thinking and you're almost there.

And its no surprise dazed thinks that way. right wingers just continually prove they'll eat up any conspiracy theory.


It's just so funny when you try to pretend it's something other than human feaces between your ears little fella.
10:05pm 25/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27148 posts

USPS Postmaster General.

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1297910596751495168


Ted Bundy: "I did not kill anyone". Ted Bundy is a serial killer DEBUNKED.
05:52am 26/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4176 posts
Ted Bundy: "I did not kill anyone". Ted Bundy is a serial killer DEBUNKED.

Oh good point, I hadn't thought of it like that because I'm not retarded.

But now that guy who's worried about conspiracy theories has said the postmaster general is like Ted Bundy I'm totally convinced Trump is Hitler.
07:21am 26/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6309 posts
Sounds great Nmag. Apparently Biden is now a Socialist too? Or anything you guys dont like is.
I mean it helps you not have to think i guess.
09:26am 26/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4177 posts
I mean it helps you not have to think i guess.


Someone still hasn't read Das Kapital...
09:48am 26/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
886 posts
Sounds great Nmag. Apparently Biden is now a Socialist too? Or anything you guys dont like is.
I mean it helps you not have to think i guess.


Should it come to a surprise to anyone that Vash doesn't even know what a socialist is? Which is it Vash? Is socialism bad or is socialism good?
12:30pm 26/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27149 posts
So dazed I'm afraid I'm gonna have to see the words. You're going to have to say "9/11 was not an inside job and events transpired exactly as the government said". Otherwise I'm just going to assume you're still a 9/11 truther and how you arrived at your current position on trump will be a whole lot clearer.
02:23pm 26/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4178 posts
Is the USPS postmaster general in the room with you right now fpot?
04:20pm 26/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6310 posts
Socialism gets dazed moist too. It always pops up with that or Obama when they cant face reality.
04:29pm 26/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27150 posts
It's kind of amazing just how bottomless it is. He rejects truth the same way he'd reject a heart transplant from a lizard.
05:12pm 26/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4179 posts
It's kind of amazing just how bottomless it is


Kind of like imagining post boxes are being stolen by Putin on Facebook.
05:29pm 26/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4180 posts
Do you think people who wax lyrical about Trump's "relationship to the truth" ever get tired of the double think they are required to engage in to hold it as a serious objection?

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYdvBdFg/Eg-Zn-V57-Uc-AAw-H6i.png
04:28pm 27/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1336 posts
Is Biden a member of the Australian Greens Vash?

https://i.imgur.com/vlMRsmm.gif
09:46pm 27/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
887 posts
It's kind of amazing just how bottomless it is. He rejects truth the same way he'd reject a heart transplant from a lizard.


Mueller report, retard. Mueller f*****g report

Classic
11:38am 28/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27151 posts
The report that clearly demonstrates that -

- Russia launched a sophisticated attack on the 2016 US Presidential Election
- trump assisted them in this attack and
- the attack itself was to help trump's election campaign because well, everything we're seeing now. Not exactly hard to predict.

Notice how no-one disputes that except bottom of the barrel conspiracy numpties like yourself. Funny that. Also can't help but notice you're incapable of saying the words incel boy. Still a 9/11 truther are we?
01:03pm 28/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6311 posts
Bidens America right now they're saying. And he isn't even President. The deaths? Eh. He did something in January, good job done. The delusion on display is just going to get uglier.
02:27pm 28/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6312 posts
03:21pm 28/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27152 posts
There simply isn't enough time to dissemble every trump crime and every trump scandal on here but there are numerous and each of them are as deep and encompassing as trump helping a foreign superpower stage an attack on the USA.
07:49pm 28/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4181 posts
The report that clearly demonstrates that -

- Russia launched a sophisticated attack on the 2016 US Presidential Election
- trump assisted them in this attack and
- the attack itself was to help trump's election campaign because well, everything we're seeing now. Not exactly hard to predict.


Parrot mode engaged.

Get him to define attack.

And the report unequivocally states that trump didn't assist.

As does the subsequent ig report and now the senate Intel committee report.

And an fbi lawyer has now been convicted of fabricating evidence of assistance.

This Russian conspiracy theory has been debunked more comprehensively than any I've ever seen and yet here is numb nuts peddling it again.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

Here is the Muller report. On "attacked Amercia".

Page 9 volume 1
First, the Office determined that Russia’s two principal interference operations in the 2016 U.S. presidential election—the social media campaign and the hacking-and-dumping operations—violated U.S. criminal law


And on "assisted". To be extremely clear here the fall back position is that the conduct didn't rise a "criminal conspiracy". The report *expressly* repudiates this position too. Page 2 volume 1.

In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of “collusion.” In so doing, the Office recognized that the word “collud[e]” was used in communications with the Acting Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation’s scope and that the term has frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law. In connection with that analysis, we addressed the factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign “coordinat[ed]”—a term that appears in the appointment order—with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion, “coordination” does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood coordination to require an agreement—tacit or express—between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking actions that were informed by or responsive to the other’s actions or interests. We applied the term coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.


Fpot has not read the Mueller report.
09:33am 29/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24704 posts
All these riots, extreme leftist mobs doing their best to get Trump elected again. You know why? If Biden, wins they have no one to riot against. Just their useless guy who changed nothing in the last 50 years.

Better to rage against the system. Did you see how scared the fake news was after the Trump speeches at the RNC? Law and order is going to determine this election. Residents are deserting New York and California in droves. America is burning and Democrats have not told them to stop.
02:43pm 29/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27153 posts
So the uhhh 'extreme leftist mobs' actually want trump to be re-elected again so they can keep rioting because they just love rioting so much. That sounds like a well thought out salient position you have there. The fake news conspiracy must be working overtime to keep a lid on that one.

edit: oh and I forgot to add to the list of things the Mueller report firmly established -

- trump committed obstruction of justice when covering the assistance he lent in Russia's attack on the 2016 US Presidential Election.
03:33pm 29/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24705 posts
makes perfect sense. otherwise they would have to get jobs and be productive and not be a self-loathing victim.
04:13pm 29/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27154 posts
To bad their last names aren't trump otherwise they'd be able to get jobs in the white house that they're vastly underqualified for.
04:25pm 29/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4182 posts
edit: oh and I forgot to add to the list of things the Mueller report firmly established -

- trump committed obstruction of justice when covering the assistance he lent in Russia's attack on the 2016 US Presidential Election.


Yeah so it proves he didn't because it proves he didn't collude with Russia's social media campaign. You can't obstruct justice if you didn't commit a crime.

But facts aren't his strong point.

Deep throating democrat conspiracy theories are while accusing othera of 9/11 truthing.
06:08pm 29/08/20 Permalink
Vash
6313 posts
Heh, the lawyer doesnt understand the law. Always knew he was a fake.
So, infi, hows it feel to be a part of a cult?
07:55pm 29/08/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24706 posts
To bad their last names aren't trump otherwise they'd be able to get jobs in the white house that they're vastly underqualified for.


I don't think rioting, looting businesses and harassing bystanders are part of the White House selection criteria.

So, infi, hows it feel to be a part of a cult?


Leave my Herbalife membership out of it.
09:34pm 29/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27155 posts
Heh, the lawyer doesnt understand the law. Always knew he was a fake.
Quote for me please? Alt-right grifters love to pretend they're lawyers always funny when they expose themselves.
11:44pm 29/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4183 posts
Heh, the lawyer doesnt understand the law. Always knew he was a fake.
So, infi, hows it feel to be a part of a cult?


Bless your little heart. It's right there in black and white little fella.

Put it this way if he obstructed justice why didn't they impeach him for it?

Obstruction of justice is an intention crime. Good luck proving a corrupt intent without an underlying crime.
09:12am 30/08/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
888 posts
Quote for me please? Alt-right grifters love to pretend they're lawyers always funny when they expose themselves.


The only question I have, with fpot looking to the resident low IQ pure communist Vash for legal advice is, which one is Curly, which one is Moe, and is Hogfather Larry?
08:10am 31/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27156 posts
Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams bro.
11:53am 31/08/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27157 posts
And since you're so open about your 9/11 truthin', why not tell me about how Bill and Melinda Gates are using vaccines as a mass control device. Are they using 5G towers to mass inject us all?
06:48pm 31/08/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4184 posts
Putin is stealing mail boxes on Facebook!
06:57pm 31/08/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1337 posts
Structures on the moon
American moon landing
Kepel Green
Alien insemination of Mary
Reptilian Hillary
Ellen the Hologram

This is what critical thinking is about. Keeping the options open.
09:33pm 01/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27158 posts
Aliens have more chance of inseminating someone than you do, so I do agree with you there.
07:58am 02/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24707 posts
Did you know that all the looitng and rioting is Trump's fault? I heard it on the news.
08:27am 02/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27159 posts
It's a fake news media conspiracy working together with the deep state conspiracy.
08:31am 02/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4185 posts
Do you think Trump would be legally required to declare people like fpot for campaign contributions.

I mean he just openly said it's ok to riot if your candidate doesnt win *and* that he'd join in.

There is only so much obvious criminality and immorality a nation's population can witness before things get out of control which are the riots we're all witnessing now. Do you really expect people to just peacefully accept trump's flagrant criminal acts and to accept the zero repercussions for them so far? Because I certainly wouldn't if I was a citizen over there. Witnessing it from here I just feel sadness and a rather superficial sense of anger about it. If I was American the feelings would be much stronger.

And here is saying that the riots are deep state conspiracy.

I mean when Trump wins it's going to be exactly because on unchecked idiocy like this, but it will also be because people like trog won't firmly repudiate it.
08:46am 02/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27161 posts
The thing about liars is that they're dumb and they eventually forget their own lies.

https://i.imgur.com/9gTqLoR.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/19t2l9P.png
01:11pm 02/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4186 posts
Master sleuth fpot has discovered tweets which may imply a descrepency about the start and finish of a physical. From these he decides it wasn't a physical at all and Trump was at deaths door and Pence was seconds from assuming the presidency, and the physical was a ruse.

For some reason, no dr can be identified who treated the nearly fatal condition. The president was some how also able to tweet while nearly dead.

This person is definitely not a deranged conspiracy theorist.

Steel beams indeed.
08:18pm 02/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24708 posts
Fpot is it within your moral compass to say that

- looting and destroying property is wrong, and such offenders should be arrested; and

- Assaulting police officers is wrong?
08:45pm 02/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27162 posts
Yes, yes, yes. Some hard questions there.

My take on the protests/riots is that they're an inevitable result of a lawless, rogue administration acting as a weapon of mass destruction against itself via the pandemic. The numbers don't lie. If trump magically cured covid19 overnight and healed all of the presently infected in the USA it's still a f*** up of the ages. That won't be happening though, so instead the world sits back and watches the real-time horror unfold.

But that's just one facet. There is also everything else. Now you're deep in, so I won't bother listing them because every time I read your piss-weak denials I die a little more inside. Such obvious criminality catches up with you eventually. Being potus must be pretty good protection against that. I wonder what sort of things a person with immense power and wealth would do to protect their freedom.
10:25pm 02/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
889 posts
You cannot visit a friend and also do a physical exam at the same time according to fpot.

I would have edited that post out of sheer embarrassment but you've doubled down on the absolute retardation. Unreal.

These are the things I look forward to when I come back here every few days.
11:27pm 02/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4187 posts
Fpot is it within your moral compass to say that


So that's a straightforward no it isn't.
07:29am 03/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27163 posts
You cannot visit a friend and also do a physical exam at the same time according to fpot.
You may need to read again, dumbshoes.

While you're at it, I was after the high intellect take on what type of missile hit The Pentagon. You seem like the boy to talk to.
09:01am 03/09/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41501 posts
drumph gonna lose
10:51am 03/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4188 posts
There is a strong and increasing chance this is a replay of 1972.

Biden's position is *alot* weaker than it looks.
11:49am 03/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24709 posts
let's just see if he can handle some debates. do you remember the mark latham handshake, the john hewson birthday cake, the Tampa, Bill Shorten's entire campaign of new taxes? one moment can decide an election.
01:03pm 03/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27165 posts
Compare those moments with a US Attorney General lying and saying he doesn't know whether voting twice is illegal because it would put his #1 client the President of The United States in legal jeopardy.
01:23pm 03/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24710 posts
what you stated offers no visual or audio imagery. it's confusing. I wasn't even aware of it.

a mumbling stuttering Biden, that will play all night every night.
01:44pm 03/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4189 posts
Bill shorten was not and never will be pm material.

Put your point is taken. Those people never had the rivers of political capital people like fpot provide though.

Trump merely has to come across as vaguely competent and not bat s*** insane (or plainly suffering dementia) and he can win.
02:08pm 03/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27166 posts
I always saw that as a palate cleanser for trump supporters. You've realised trump orates like a 12 year old who has only seen a film trailer of the book they were meant to read giving a book report? You saw the soup cans thing right as a recent example? What the f***?

After trump's senate acquittal for abuse of power we know he is an autocrat and above the law. What we don't yet know, and we'll all find out if he wins in November, is to what extent his critical mass of dumbf**** (that would be you) are willing to turn a blind eye to his misdeeds. And when I say misdeeds what I really mean is cruelty and flagrant disregard for the law.
02:23pm 03/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24711 posts
he is an autocrat


- repeal of obama care blocked by Senate
- border wall funding blocked by Senate
- numerous immigration executive orders blocked by courts

I'm not sure you understand how the US system works.
03:44pm 03/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4190 posts
You also missed being reluctant to activate the defence Powers Act, and now the insurection act.

He's spent all this time autcratically waiting for a request from the relevant state to activate the national guard.

He's got as good a reason to declare martial law in Portland as he is ever going to. But raging out of control autocrat hasn't.

I mean to balance that out he may have lied about the beginning or end of a physical.
03:53pm 03/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6314 posts
what you stated offers no visual or audio imagery. it's confusing. I wasn't even aware of it.


Here ya go Infi
07:00pm 03/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24712 posts

voting twice is illegal. their point is that voting by mail and then in person exposes the flaw in voting by mail that is being promoted by Democrts. The entire mail system has no rigor. Australia now seems to have a synchronised computerised voter roll. Why the US doens't have this is beyond me, but there's a reason that the flawed mail system is Democrats go to.

People say that mail in voting is to protect from COVID..... then why are they conducting mass rallies and riots??? Not very COVIDSafe. Sick and elderly can get a mail in ballot. Always have been able to.

i also checked: looting, destroying property, removing statues, occupying the city centre and establlishing autonomous zones are all illegal too.... apparently.

i guess it's only illegal if you get pulled up.

edit: and yeah not really a BBQ stopper.

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1301290060160143365


08:35pm 03/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27167 posts
Tom Fitton says so right?
11:52pm 03/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1338 posts
So much TDS fpot.

Who are the victims of Trump's evil ways?
03:49pm 04/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6315 posts
Damn Infi. Thats some serious mental gymnastics. But i expected it.

Poor Tones getting roasted in the UK.
08:31pm 04/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24713 posts
Vash do you think that looters and those who damage property should be arrested?

Should it be illegal to pull down statues?

Is it OK to shoot and kill Trump supporters.
08:49pm 04/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4191 posts
Damn Infi. Thats some serious mental gymnastics. But i expected it.


From the guy who says antifa isn't real.
09:52pm 04/09/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41502 posts
Poor Tones getting roasted in the UK.

this is as brutal as it gets

tone plz

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301408266833014786

completely justified as tone is an embarassment to australians everywhere.
08:04am 05/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24714 posts
He got roasted... And he got the gig. Do you think he even gives a f***?
08:30am 05/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6316 posts

Vash do you think that looters and those who damage property should be arrested?

Should it be illegal to pull down statues?

Is it OK to shoot and kill Trump supporters.


Yes, yes, and no. No surprise you went there though. The situation in the U.S isn't only caused by Antifa & BLM. Riots & Protest happen when the Government is severely incompetent. Its easy to label them all as Democrats or the left.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
09:52am 05/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4192 posts
Omg a report says rightwing terror but some how overlooks 3 months of continuous rioting by antifa.

The situation in the U.S isn't only caused by Antifa & BLM

Yes it is.
You can never get a straightforward condemnation. It's always it's ok when we do it.
10:15am 05/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6317 posts
Talk about a self own.

You can never get a straightforward condemnation. It's always it's ok when we do it


Read your post again. especially this part. Carefully.
12:28pm 05/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2042 posts
And that lack of condemnation is handing Trump the win.

The situation in the U.S isn't only caused by Antifa & BLM. Riots & Protest happen when the Government is severely incompetent

That sort of thinking is so indicative of the 'justification' for the violence, but so wildly counter-productive to the obvious preferred outcome of the mob.

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that, given the choice, people would prefer *not* to be extorted. A general vibe of "Hey, that's a nice country you got there, shame if *something* were to happen to it..." has perhaps not exactly been a winning strategy, lol.

Pretty ironic that the Antifa/BLM violence will end up achieving the very opposite of the aim of their violence.
12:32pm 05/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27169 posts
Something did happen to the country. It has already happened and that's why riots are occurring. The only chance that the country can be put back on course is for Biden to be elected, and even then it's still just a chance.

I'd also say it's a safe bet that people would rather go about their daily lives in peace and safety without the constant concern of arrest and the need to protest/riot on the streets on a daily basis. The alt-right grift is of course that these people want to riot and want trump to be elected so more rioting can occur but this is the typical nonsense you expect from them.

I wouldn't say every worthwhile political cause of this nature has involved some degree of violence, but many have. It's always plays out the same. During the event detractors will belittle the movement and condemn the participants as violent extremists, and then when it's over and the change has been effected... oops they were right. Now you could say that trump is actually really great and the protestors/rioters are actually jobless losers who just want to riot for the fun of it and there is actually no problem at all and systemic racism by the state in fact does not exist but I think you'll find you're wrong about that.
12:57pm 05/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24715 posts
Damn Infi. Thats some serious mental gymnastics. But i expected it.

Poor Tones getting roasted in the UK.
https://i.imgur.com/lfpcqS4.jpg

same goes for snopes I guess.
01:05pm 05/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4193 posts
Read your post again. especially this part. Carefully.


Yeah read it. For those with a functional grasp of English it's quite clear. I understand why you struggle though.

And as if on cue fpot with the oh the violence is justified because Trump is like a fascist or something. It's just "it's different when we do it" all the way down.


I wouldn't say every worthwhile political cause of this nature has involved some degree of violence, but many have. It's always plays out the same. During the event detractors will belittle the movement and condemn the participants as violent extremists, and then when it's over and the change has been effected... oops they were right. Now you could say that trump is actually really great and the protestors/rioters are actually jobless losers who just want to riot for the fun of it and there is actually no problem at all and systemic racism by the state in fact does not exist but I think you'll find you're wrong about that.


Don't forget numbnuts here was denying they were rioting at all two weeks ago.

Don't forget the rioters have not touched any of Trump's property. They've just burned down random people's homes and businesses, almost exclusively in minority neighbourhoods. Really stew on that when some f*****g retard like fpot says something like:

During the event detractors will belittle the movement and condemn the participants as violent extremists, and then when it's over and the change has been effected... oops they were right.


As Orwell said where's the omelette?
01:42pm 05/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6318 posts
And that lack of condemnation is handing Trump the win.


Precisely. His supporters will never criticize their leader or what their followers do. Anything that happens is because of the scary Communists/Democrats or whatever the latest buzz word is. There is no such cult following from the Democrats on a large scale such as with Trump.
Its very easy to paint all the protesters holding the country to 'ransom' as being Democrat or Antifa. It's just another dishonest political strategy.

Now if you look at what the actual numbers are, there is alot of inspiration for extremists on the far right to commit crimes because of Trump. It's been well studied. But as we know, truth is at a deficit in this political landscape.
01:54pm 05/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2043 posts
Precisely. His supporters will never criticize their leader or what their followers do.

You have misunderstood.

Trump has absolutely condemned the violence, and more specifically, the source of the violence.

And that lack of condemnation is handing Trump the win.

I wasn't trying to be cryptic there Vash, but let me clarify for you.

The lack of condemnation of the violence from the left, for months, and specifically the source of the violence (Antifa/BLM) is handing Trump the win.
02:40pm 05/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6319 posts
Proved my point nicely.

For Trump to condemn the source of the violence, he'd have to condemn himself, and he'd also have to change his rhetoric completely, and we know that isn't happening.

Have a read of a few studies on the increasing trends of white nationalist terrorism in the states & the world since he was elected.
03:04pm 05/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24716 posts
What on earth are you talking about?

The riots have nothing to do with Trump. The USA has been rioting for decades under various presidents. These are lawless opportunistic thugs intimidating others under the guise of social justice. It is classic Left wing activism.

Except now it is legitimised by the mainstream fake news media and big business who themselves now fear being cancelled.

Do you honestly think there will be no riots if Biden is elected? Left wing activists deal in grievance. There will always be grievance.
03:25pm 05/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4194 posts
Now if you look at what the actual numbers are, there is alot of inspiration for extremists on the far right to commit crimes because of Trump. It's been well studied. But as we know, truth is at a deficit in this political landscape.


Just out of interest can anyone point to the last time "rightwing terrorists" caused the national guard to be deployed in 23 states and Washington DC?

asking for a friend
04:42pm 05/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2044 posts
For Trump to condemn the source of the violence, he'd have to condemn himself

lol

Are individuals stripped of all agency when they attempt to seal up police station doors with quick dry cement so they can burn the place down with people trapped inside?

Do their arms involuntarily throw bricks?

They're just an observer to their body as they're supernaturally compelled to loot and destroy random businesses 'because Trump'?
05:05pm 05/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6320 posts

The partisanship is strong.

Claiming its all the scary left's fault, below it explains that its both sides, and theres been far more deaths attributed to right wing extremism. I should remind you that Antifa isn't listed as a terrorist group, but white nationalist groups have been.
And there's also footage of Trump supporters provocating protestors, not rioters, with pepper spray & paintballs. Retweeted by Trump. So much for condemning that behavior eh?

So why wont the right condemn these terrorists?

First, the November 2020 presidential election will likely be a significant source of anger and polarization that increases the possibility of terrorism. Some—though not all—far-right extremists associate themselves with President Trump and may resort to violence before or after the election. As U.S. Department of Justice documents have highlighted, some far-right extremists have referred to themselves as “Trumpenkriegers”—or “fighters for Trump.”50 If President Trump loses the election, some extremists may use violence because they believe—however incorrectly—that there was fraud or that the election of Democratic candidate Joe Biden will undermine their extremist objectives. Alternatively, some on the far-left could resort to terrorism if President Trump is re-elected. In June 14, 2017, James Hodgkinson—a left-wing extremist—shot U.S. House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, U.S. Capitol Police officer Crystal Griner, congressional aide Zack Barth, and lobbyist Matt Mika in Alexandria, VA. A few months earlier, Hodgkinson wrote in a Facebook post that “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”51 Tension on both the far right and far left has dramatically risen over the past several years.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states


05:42pm 05/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4195 posts
The partisanship is strong.


I love the fact that vash is trying to both sides it and then quotes an example which says rightwing people *may* commit violence and the left wing people did in fact shoot a member of Congress.

That's some deep cutting analysis there you moron.

And so that's a no you can't point to rightwimg terrorists causing deployment of the national guard nearly half the states of the country.
05:53pm 05/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24717 posts

The partisanship is strong.

Claiming its all the scary left's fault, below it explains that its both sides, and theres been far more deaths attributed to right wing extremism. I should remind you that Antifa isn't listed as a terrorist group, but white nationalist groups have been.
And there's also footage of Trump supporters provocating protestors, not rioters, with pepper spray & paintballs. Retweeted by Trump. So much for condemning that behavior eh?

So why wont the right condemn these terrorists?

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states




There is a lot of "may" in that post. Whereas ANTIFA and BLM "have done". You live in a special bubble Vash.
08:45pm 06/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
890 posts
You may need to read again, dumbshoes.


Yeah sorry, it was actually dumber than i first realised. The already embarrasingly low credibility I gave you was clearly still way too high a bar.
06:13am 07/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27171 posts
Yeah sorry, it was actually dumber than i first realised. The already embarrasingly low credibility I gave you was clearly still way too high a bar.
Sure thing champ.
12:46pm 07/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6322 posts
There is a lot of "may" in that post. Whereas ANTIFA and BLM "have done". You live in a special bubble Vash.


Cool. So you didn't read the study. Surely the left winger killing someone would've gotten you all juiced up inside to read the full thing? guess not.
12:51pm 07/09/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41503 posts
01:48pm 07/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24718 posts
very cool story, spook! reminds me of the time when Hillary was 99% to win on the computer model.

vash that research paper ignores that all over the USA left wing mobs are looting and burning democrat cities RIGHT NOW, so: cool research paper.
02:06pm 07/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6323 posts
Right. Reference to it being left wing mobs? If you're referring to BLM, they have a membership from all political persuasions. Antifa isnt even worth a mention, they're in such a minority and aren't even an organization.
But it doesn't surprise me conservative media will paint anyone who isnt them as left wing, considering how far right modern Conservatism has become.
03:04pm 07/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4196 posts
Reference to it being left wing mobs? If you're referring to BLM, they have a membership from all political persuasions. Antifa isnt even worth a mention, they're in such a minority and aren't even an organization.


Yeah the people doing the rioting aren't worth mentioning, who somehow got left out the report "showing "rightwing terrorists" may engage in violence.

Funny how that works.

And BLM not leftwing. Gold.

You are a special special kind of retard.
08:40pm 07/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1339 posts
wow. Vash reckons most of the rioters aren't left wing?

Kind of goes against the common jouno narrative that it's the evil orange nazi against the rioters.

Are you using those critical thinking skills that fpot goes on about?

Wtf is that article Vash.. Lets just chalk up that islamic terrorism is not left wing, but at the same time group Incels as a subset of right wing extremism. Now our graph looks much better.. the kind of graph our readers like.
09:24pm 07/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27175 posts
By golly it makes it easier when he admits it himself - recordings of trump downplaying virus

"It goes through the air," Mr Trump told the author on 7 February.

"That's always tougher than the touch. You don't have to touch things. Right? But the air, you just breathe the air and that's how it's passed.

"And so that's a very tricky one. That's a very delicate one. It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flus."

Later that month, Mr Trump promised the virus was "very much under control", and that the case count would soon be close to zero. He also publicly implied the flu was more dangerous than Covid-19.


Luckily for trump that is the only true thing published in the like ten books about him so far. Everything else is a fabrication by the deep state conspiracy in conjunction with the fake news media conspiracy.
05:48pm 10/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24719 posts
Fauci was just on TV saying Trump has never tried to downplay the danger of the virus. Keep up.
05:54pm 10/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27176 posts
I have literally heard with my own ears and seen with my own eyes trump downplaying the virus. As has everyone. These tapes just rule out ignorance on his part.
05:55pm 10/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6324 posts
Ah poor naive Infi. If Fauci spoke out he'd be fired on the spot. He can save more lives by pretending all is well to try and get some level of scientific advice into this Administration.
The people to listen to about his corruption are those who have been fired, arrested, all around Trump. and there are many. And of course Woodward being a respected Journalist.

Time to wake up ya silly bastards.
06:55pm 10/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27177 posts
Another thing that is slightly erratic is the DOJ representing trump in his defamation case against Carroll. When I said trump was Barr's #1 client I was joking.
08:25pm 10/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4197 posts
They are going to run out of things to drop to protect Biden.

They are trying this as well as "anonymous sources" said trump called WW1 vets suckers, because Biden f***ed the pooch on rioting. The simple reality is no democrat would have done anything differently, and infact probably wouldn't have imposed travel bans. That's why these reports aren't hurting him.

But don't worry infi. Super candidate Biden who definitely isn't a vegetable and could only lose because Russia, right after getting a press bail out went on tv today and said Trump's usmca trade deal was better than nafta, and that he was against NAFTA despite voting for it.

Difficult to take the wails of fascism rising seriously when your response is nominate old man who yells at clouds for president.
09:49am 11/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24720 posts
I wonder why it took Biden months to decry rioting and looting. Was he asleep again? Or did his advisers perceive they might be his voter base? Very concerning either way.

He gets wheeled out for a semi-conscious stuttering rambling interview every few days.

This guy won a primary battle!?
09:59am 11/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27178 posts
It didn't

infi and trump nicely in sync with this one

I can't wait until you guys have to go back to making up and coordinating your own lies. Things are funny then rather than bleakly dystopian.
10:23am 11/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4198 posts
Fpots getting himself a bit muddled.

He loves Biden

But he loves riots too.


I'd also say it's a safe bet that people would rather go about their daily lives in peace and safety without the constant concern of arrest and the need to protest/riot on the streets on a daily basis


And remember this is how fpot responded at the time to out of control street violence.

Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.
permalink

That's definitely how someone who takes it seriously reacts. Murdering black people is no biggie when BLM do it.
11:13am 11/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1340 posts

Which orange man will win?

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12632704-3x2-xlarge.jpghttp://gomerblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/thumbnail_Orange-Trump.jpghttps://www.healthing.ca/wellness/the-orange-face-trump-may-be-doing-it-wrong


Janine Falcon: I don’t understand how he gets that pumpkin hue. Assuming he is using a self-tanner, how he manages to achieve that outright orange result is incomprehensible. Self-tanning products have come such a long way — I bet he’s using a brand he first landed on 30 years ago and is just too set in his horrible ways to change. It could also be a combination of self-tanner and makeup. Whatever the issue, he must actually like the way it turns out, the same way he likes his hair in that strange style.
https://cdn.eventfinda.co.nz/uploads/events/transformed/1450876-637357-34.png
03:00pm 11/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6325 posts
lol notice how they go straight for Biden when faced with hard truths.
07:35pm 11/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4199 posts
end nobel peace prize

Maybe they could could introduce a nobel prize for the most I forgot my big boy pants reactionary hot take.

lol notice how they go straight for Biden when faced with hard truths.


Haha yeah the hard truth that Biden is the alternative and while he was issuing tepid both sides should calm down bulls*** his campaign was bailing out rioters
so I don't care what a "fact check" says

Oh and so was his veep pick

Receiving such a confusing message from your propaganda network must cause you some mental problems. For example you might say Biden condemns violence and rioting is ok.
09:26am 12/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27180 posts
Small child-sized truths are too hard for these chud muthaf*****s. If the hermetic seal of falsehood that sustains their lives is breached by even a whiff of the truth, well that's bad news for them. That's why even the most insignificant facts are disputed and rejected. If one gets through more could get through. They can't have that.
11:42am 12/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4200 posts
Small child-sized truths are too hard for these chud muthaf*****s. If the hermetic seal of falsehood that sustains their lives is breached by even a whiff of the truth, well that's bad news for them. That's why even the most insignificant facts are disputed and rejected. If one gets through more could get through. They can't have that.

I like to read intelligent thoughtful argument like that in light of the fact the person writing it refuses to accept the findings of Mueller report and thinks Russians are stealing post boxes.
02:14pm 12/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1341 posts
10:22pm 13/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
891 posts
Small child-sized truths are too hard for these chud muthaf*****s. If the hermetic seal of falsehood that sustains their lives is breached by even a whiff of the truth, well that's bad news for them. That's why even the most insignificant facts are disputed and rejected. If one gets through more could get through. They can't have that.


I'll take the words of people much much smarter than a bouncer, thanks.
08:46am 15/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27183 posts
I'd say the idea is to actually figure things out for yourself by internalising information and then applying basic critical thinking rather than taking the word of whatever conspiracy numpty feeds your bias but you're probably better off doing that to be honest.
12:16pm 15/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6326 posts
Yet another conspiracy theory has likely gotten people killed in the Oregon fires. People claiming antifa was there to loot & set fires. All debunked by law enforcement officials.
Makes you think that if they're pushing this antifa narrative so hard theres little truth in them doing the looting or rioting elsewhere on as big a scale as they claim.

Trump's America. Feed that fear, Conservatives love it.
06:45pm 15/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1342 posts
I think the Australian Trump haters should be more concerned with what China is doing than "applying basic critical thinking" regarding the orange-hate-pin-up boy.
10:36pm 15/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
892 posts
I'd say the idea is to actually figure things out for yourself by internalising information and then applying basic critical thinking rather than taking the word of whatever conspiracy numpty feeds your bias but you're probably better off doing that to be honest.


This may take the cake for the most ironic post ever made on this forum and that's saying something with Vash, who I am sure is down syndrome, as competition.
10:21am 16/09/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17049 posts
I think the Australian Trump haters should be more concerned with what China is doing than "applying basic critical thinking" regarding the orange-hate-pin-up boy.

I'm more concerned about China's activity because Trump is at the helm of the Western alliance.
11:05am 16/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4201 posts

I'm more concerned about China's activity because Trump is at the helm of the Western alliance.


0_o

China's territorial aggression which well predates Trump is problem because of ... Trump.
02:40pm 16/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24721 posts
That's just one in a line of Drumpf's pre-politics political transgressions.

LMAO

Until Drumpf was elected there was no BLM and Police Brutality. Drumpf also erected all the racist statues. And according to Scientific American Drumpf caused climate change.

It's so simple.
02:50pm 16/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4202 posts
I assume the argument would be something like Trump is so haphazard we'd stumble backwards into a war and that Trump wouldn't honour ANZUS.

Which doesn't really require a serious response.
04:04pm 16/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1343 posts

I'm more concerned about China's activity because Trump is at the helm of the Western alliance.


"Uyghur muslims internment camp"
"Why China is challenging Australia for influence over the Pacific Islands"
"China's military outposts in the South China Sea are a breach of Beijing's agreement to not militarize the sea."
"In 2014 China began massive dredging operations to build artificial islands around seven reefs that they claimed as their territory. The artificial islands have been transformed into significant military facilities including three runways that have been used for the deployment of Chinese fighter jets"
"Cheng Lei: Why has an Australian TV anchor been detained by China?"
"China's Surveillance State Should Scare Everyone- The country is perfecting a vast network of digital espionage as a means of social control—with implications for democracies worldwide."
"China sees Taiwan as a breakaway province that will eventually be part of the country again"
"Hong Kong is a former British colony handed back to China in 1997. It has its own judiciary and a separate legal system from mainland China. "
"The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin"
"President Xi Jinping is calling on China’s 60 million expats around the globe to bring their money and loyalties home"
"So why did the Chinese embassies choose to give out care packages to students, who are in less need of help compared to other Chinese nationals?."

Are you're worried about the orange blowhard - Leader of the overly proud obese nation of war and burgers.

We had a manufacturing sector once.
10:11pm 17/09/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17057 posts
China's territorial aggression which well predates Trump is problem because of ... Trump.

This right here is why I don't visit this thread often. I said no such f*****g thing, not even remotely close to this assertion.
10:15pm 17/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4203 posts
I'm sure you can present a sensible argument as to why trump is the problem when it comes to China.

But you didn't. And you won't.
07:32am 18/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24723 posts
Imagine how aggressive China will become if sleepy Joe is at the wheel. Or Kamala. I never know which of the two is intended to be president
07:50am 18/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4204 posts
09:13am 18/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2045 posts
What the department seeks to obtain from its investigation is what evidence Princeton used in its determination that the university is racist, including all records regarding Eisgruber's letter and a "spreadsheet identifying each person who has, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, been excluded from participation in, been denied the benefits of, or been subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance as a result of the Princeton racism or 'damage' referenced in the President’s Letter." Eisgruber and a "designated corporate representative" must sit for interviews under oath, and Princeton must also respond to written questions regarding the matter.


Whoa, hold up there, why the need to get all uppity with specifics?
01:29pm 18/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1344 posts

Buh Dumph is so nasty.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-22/tycoon-who-criticised-xi-jinping-handling-of-covid-19-jailed/12689860

Dozens of journalists, labour and human rights activists and others have been imprisoned.

09:16pm 22/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27193 posts
I think the Australian Trump haters should be more concerned with what China is doing than "applying basic critical thinking" regarding the orange-hate-pin-up boy.

The way you come running in waving your little China around like it's something you've just discovered is pretty adorable. I'd say the main reason China isn't being discussed in this thread is because you keep bringing it up, and you're such a hateful, obnoxious s****tain that no one would ever stoop so low that they'd take a suggestion from you or engage you in any serious way.
10:00pm 22/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6327 posts
It's typical reactionary strategy. Dont look at this, look at Clinton/Biden/Obama/china etc. take your pick.
10:55pm 22/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6328 posts
11:32pm 22/09/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17058 posts
The Australian Government looks set to give up on FTTN already and start upgrading copper connections on demand to fibre across the country.

What a total f*****g farce their copper NBN has turned out to be, it was literally out of date on arrival and will cost extra billions to revert to Rudd's original sane plan. This was super predictable by anyone paying attention at all without 95% political blockout active in the brain stem.

Good work there team conservative, if you're not a 'tech head' then gtfo out tech policy. Stop opposing good policy because Wrong Team started it. F*****g muppets.
12:27pm 23/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27194 posts
Two Hundred Thousand.
01:09pm 23/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4205 posts
This was super predictable by anyone paying attention at all without 95% political blockout active in the brain stem.

Good work there team conservative, if you're not a 'tech head' then gtfo out tech policy. Stop opposing good policy because Wrong Team started it. F*****g muppets.


This is a person who holds themselves out being as above petty name calling.

I'm sure you can present a sensible argument as to why trump is the problem when it comes to China.

But you didn't. And you won't.


Yeah. Didn't think so.
05:06pm 23/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6329 posts
^Jesus is this guy dumb or what?

First you misconstrue Hog's statement, then expect him to attempt to make an argument?

This is the dude who thinks Trump's COVID response was reasonable. And the FBI currently is 'Obamas' FBI.

As always, conservatives are huge hypocrites, as we've just seen from the latest republican farce over the Supreme court nomination. If people dont want to engage with someone who strongly believes in the moronic ideology such as modern conservatism, then you can't blame them.
05:15pm 23/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4206 posts
We can't all believe true socialism hasn't been tried.

This guy still thinks there hasn't been any rioting in the US when the bill is now over $1b and counting.
06:42pm 23/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27195 posts
^Jesus is this guy dumb or what?
It's basically just a collection of cells that have somehow figured out how to lie no matter how obvious the truth is without feeling any sort of shame at all. That's why it's the most ignored collection of cells in Ausgamers history. You should probably ignore it as well.
07:36pm 23/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4207 posts
It's basically just a collection of cells that have somehow figured out how to lie no matter how obvious the truth is without feeling any sort of shame at all. That's why it's the most ignored collection of cells in Ausgamers history. You should probably ignore it as well.


For some reason there something endlessly satisfying in seeing someone who is such a bottom feeding low life desperately try to prop themselves up by convincing themselves they are morally righteous.
09:50pm 23/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
893 posts
You're right Vash, Trump should have listened to Biden and Pelosi and left the border to China open and gone down to Chinatown in NYC and bragged about how it was totally safe.
10:22am 24/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6330 posts
Even if that were true (it probably isnt) Trump took their advice i guess? Virus affects virtually nobody, his words.

How about this lil' nugget.

Is he joking, taken out of context etc etc? Bring on the spin.

01:20pm 24/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4208 posts
The sheer level of delusion you people operate at is mind blowing.

There been rioting across the country *by left wing BLM supporters*. Trump will you commit to a peaceful transfer of power? Yep that's was it. That was the moment Trump brought fascism to America.

Watching you and fpot work yourselves into ever greater foaming lathers (punctuated by obvious, glaring and deep ignorence) has been hugely enjoyable.
01:45pm 24/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27198 posts
The man who has presided over two hundred thousand American deaths and has plunged the USA into it's darkest times since WW2 says that he won't peacefully transfer power if he loses the election is a cool and normal thing.
08:38pm 24/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4209 posts
The people who have called every Republican presidential candidate since Reagan Hitler, are calling a Republican president Hitler *again* and are confused about why no-one is listening this time. This time with Russian post boxes.
Edit

Oh and speaking of post boxes. Looks like democrats are having a change of heart about mail on voting. democrats mail voting pivot.

I look forward to watching fpot trying to reconcile his cognitive dissonance in real time.
07:30am 25/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2046 posts
Great vid Vash.

'Win, lose, or draw'

lol, spectacular jounalisming.

"Hey will you peacefully transfer power if you win or it's a draw?"

It escapes no one that obviously he meant, 'If you lose will you concede' - but honestly, what a retarded way to ask a question.


Is he joking, taken out of context etc etc? Bring on the spin.

The fact that you would say 'bring on the spin' while posting a video of pure spin...

Was there any mention from that numptie that Trump has a problem with universal mail-in voting in particular? No?

Trump says universal mail-in voting would be 'catastrophic'

There's a pretty big difference between requesting a ballot and having millions of ballots sent out.



So Trump thinks there'll be some cheating, and 'won't concede' because of the cheating. What a prick.

Joe Biden:
"It's my greatest concern -- my single greatest concern. This president is going to try to steal this election."

and
"you have so many rank and file military personnel saying, well, we're not a military state, this is not who we are. I promise you, I'm absolutely convinced, they will escort him from the White House in a dispatch."

Sounds like he thinks there'll be some cheating, and 'won't concede' because of the cheating.

Hillary Clinton:
"So we need numbers overwhelming so Trump can't sneak or steal his way to victory."

and
"But at least we know more about what they're going to do, and you know Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is gonna drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is."

Sounds like she thinks there'll be some cheating, and Joe 'shouldn't concede' because of the cheating.
01:23pm 25/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27199 posts
It's a completely normal way to ask the question. It's just the question itself that is completely abnormal because it's never had to be asked before. As for the rest of your jumbled word salad of a post... just blah. You morons all seem to operate out of the same standard alt-right playbook, so if I were to point out certain things like the overwhelming evidence that trump is trying to cheat this election like he cheated the last one, and how there is zero evidence of any sort of widespread organised voter fraud I'd be hit with the same reality denial and direct from the troll farm 'evidence' that's always presented by you people so I'd just be wasting my time, right?
03:56pm 25/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4210 posts
Oh there it is.

Alt-right play book...

Anyone who disagrees with me is a nazi.

It's a completely normal way to ask the question. It's just the question itself that is completely abnormal because it's never had to be asked before.


Can't really be helped that f*****g morons like fpot have convinced themselves that a Russian plant has been installed in the white house.

You really should show everyone one your throat relaxing technique, cause you can really get that CNN d*** all the way down can't ya fpot.
08:29am 26/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2047 posts
My point was pretty simple fpot. My bad for assuming your basic comprehension skills. *BOTH SIDES* are questioning the integrity of the election, and *BOTH SIDES* are refusing to commit to conceding an election 'unfairly' lost. Which bit is difficult to understand?

Sure, it's not pretty politics from *EITHER* side, but to pretend as though only one side is guilty? It's pathetic to watch, but not too surprising considering the media's fixation on one side only. Why not the same repeated 'will you concede?' questions from all the big media outlets to the Dems, considering their comments on cheating? Oh that's right, the Harris/Biden 'administration' don't take questions...

just blah

Good point, you got me there.



Hey, I found a copy of the alt-left playbook. Here's a quote from it:
overwhelming evidence that trump is trying to cheat this election like he cheated the last one

Would you look at that. It looks like you copy-pasted that straight out of the alt-left playbook fpot!

Sure, please post the 'overwhelming evidence'. Not wasting your time at all - it should be pretty incredible stuff. You must have info that a 3 year Trump hating FBI investigation failed to find? I assume you must have read the Mueller report, because you clearly like to be across all the evidence.
11:49am 26/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27201 posts
please post the 'overwhelming evidence
Sure! Here is a detailed analysis of trump's involvement with the Russian attack on the 2016 Presidential Election. Now I'm guessing you're probably not used to scrolling down once a page loads, but please remember to do so this time because they really go into great detail complete with caveats, none of which I dispute.

There is also the part in the Mueller report about how trump possibly committed obstruction of justice in hiding all the help he gave, but since you've read it and that part is so obvious there's no real need for me to post that right? Can't really catagorise it as cheating in the election anyway. It's just the part where they cover up all the cheating.

Here's a write-up on trump extorting the Ukrainian government in a smear campaign against his current political opponent, Joe Biden. Remember, once a page loads you need to scroll down. Good luck!

Here's some inferior left-wing logic for you. When a leader of a nation erodes institutions, strips away checks and balances, acts in a lawless and immoral manner with no consequences and completely flubs a national crisis resulting in economic collapse and hundreds of thousands of deaths it creates an impact. People start to get upset because they remember back to a time when there was an actual President. Things weren't perfect, but they weren't the current dumpster supernova which is happening right now. When their only chance is for the current administration to be voted out and that administration has been shown to have a history of cheating in elections and can cause a wee bit of unrest.

Of course there is a possibility everything I just posted and said is untrue. It could be the fabrications of the deep-state conspiracy. An unelected cabal of intelligence officials scared of trump, who is actually really great and will do so many good things. This cabal can't have that - only they can do good things and they will destroy the nation to stop trump's glorious march into a new golden age. The media? Silent. A global fake news conspiracy working in conjunction with the deep state conspiracy all to stop trump because he just cares so much about the average person.
03:28pm 26/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1345 posts
I've been saying for years you should be more concerned with various things much closer to home that what cuck news tells you to worry about. Trump hate news is plentiful and cheap. There is a oversupply.. fools like you read it cause you have been conditioned to eat it. You want more. You're addicted to the confirmation bias it provides.

The basic concept that "They voted orange man in, so bugger it" is refuted by your ideals. "Does not compute". but you don't believe in conspiracy theories. LOL

A couple years ago I brought up some things going on in India and Pakistan and you and Vash just continued to dribble about orange man bad.

Hate is bad. You are bad fpot. You are a hater.. and most know the hater's real issues are within.
06:54pm 26/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4211 posts
Sure! Here is a detailed analysis of trump's involvement with the Russian attack on the 2016 Presidential Election


There is some deep irony in posting not the Mueller report and then saying this.

. Now I'm guessing you're probably not used to scrolling down once a page loads, but please remember to do so this time because they really go into great detail complete with caveats, none of which I dispute.
07:41pm 26/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27202 posts
If only I'd listened to Nmag!
07:58pm 26/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2050 posts
Ok, so no new information. Interesting that you don't reference the actual Mueller report, a 3 year $30 Million analysis of Trump's involvement; instead an 'analysis' of the Mueller report. 'Guide to the Mueller Report’s Findings on “Collusion”' lol. Complete with caveats indeed.

What sort of caveats?
The investigation could not establish whether Papadopoulos informed the Campaign about the Russian government’s having derogatory information on Clinton in the form of emails. That’s one feature of the Report’s being constrained by the burdens of proof in a criminal context. It is highly likely that Papadopoulos did inform the Campaign


Haha. Ah, that pesky burden of proof thing. If only they didn't have to be 'constrained' by something as useless and petty as 'burden of proof'! If only the term 'highly likely' carried more weight!

“[t]he investigation did not uncover evidence of Manafort’s passing along information about Ukrainian peace plans to the candidate or anyone else in the Campaign or the Administration.”

the Special Counsel’s Office “did not identify evidence of a connection between Manafort’s sharing polling data and Russia’s interference in the election, which had already been reported by U.S. media outlets at the time of the August 2 meeting.”

the Special Counsel’s Office “could not reliably determine” Manafort’s purpose in sharing the internal polling data with Kilimnik

The Report provides no evidence that more significant information was exchanged during the meeting.

although the Mueller Report states that Flynn reached out to Ledeen and Smith (p. 62), the Report states that the Special Counsel’s Office “did not identify evidence that any of the listed individuals [Trump Campaign officials including Flynn] initiated or directed Smith’s efforts.” It may be that Smith had initiated his efforts which he then coordinated with Flynn.

the Mueller Report suggests that Ledeen’s and Smith’s efforts were ineffective and that Smith may have never actually been in contact with Russian hackers. The report states: “The investigation did not establish that Smith was in contact with Russian hackers or that Smith, Ledeen, or other individuals in touch with the Trump Campaign ultimately obtained the deleted Clinton emails.”


So what I'm seeing is a whole bunch of 'evidence' of things that 'happened' that aren't crimes, but then a whole heap of 'could not establish', 'did not uncover evidence of', 'did not identify evidence', 'no evidence', etc., of things that would be crimes..

You might say I'm cherry picking - yea, I'm looking for the bits that talk about evidence of a crime. Usually, if someone said 'overwhelming evidence', you wouldn't expect to find such an absence of evidence of a crime.



So how credible is the 'analysis' or 'guide' to the Mueller report? This from its 'Summary of Major Findings':
The redacted Mueller Report documents a series of activities that show strong evidence of collusion. Or, more precisely, it provides significant evidence that Trump Campaign associates coordinated with, cooperated with, encouraged, or gave support to the Russia/WikiLeaks election interference activities.

Oh really? Is that what the Mueller report shows?

What about this bit from the Mueller report?
Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Weird. They seem to say the exact opposite thing.

Or what about this bit from the Mueller report?
In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted
a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of “collusion.” In so doing,
the Office recognized that the word “collud[e]” was used in communications with the Acting
Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation’s scope and that the term has
frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific
offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code
, nor is it a term of art in federal
criminal law. For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability
was on conspiracy as defined in federal law. In connection with that analysis, we addressed the
factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign “coordinat[ed]”—a term that appears
in the appointment order—with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion,
“coordination” does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood
coordination to require an agreement—tacit or express—between the Trump Campaign and the
Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking
actions that were informed by or responsive to the other’s actions or interests. We applied the term
coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the
Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

So the exact opposite again. Turned out to be a pretty rad 'analysis'.


There is also the part in the Mueller report about how trump possibly committed obstruction of justice in hiding all the help he gave

'possibly' sums it up pretty well fpot, well done. Though not really the qualifier I'd go for if I was going for 'overwhelming evidence'.

Here's a write-up on trump extorting the Ukrainian government in a smear campaign against his current political opponent, Joe Biden.

Shame the whole 'extortion' claim completely fell apart when it became clear that Ukrainian government had absolutely no idea that any aid was even being withheld.


Here's some inferior left-wing logic for you. When a leader of a nation erodes institutions,
like completely dismantling institutions because they're all 'systemically racist' - as the left wants to do?
strips away checks and balances,
like abolishing the filibuster, packing the court, abolishing the electoral college, and adding two states to the union, as the left have openly said they want to do just this week?
acts in a lawless and immoral manner with no consequences
lol, such a big bad horrible orange man
and completely flubs a national crisis resulting in economic collapse and hundreds of thousands of deaths it creates an impact.
yea because the rest of the world is doing just fine, all the Blue states are doing really really well, and Democrats definitely weren't criticising travel bans and encouraging people to hang out in Chinatown.

Inferior left-wing logic - couldn't really put it better myself.
11:11pm 26/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27203 posts
You might say I'm cherry picking - yea, I'm looking for the bits that talk about evidence of a crime. Usually, if someone said 'overwhelming evidence', you wouldn't expect to find such an absence of evidence of a crime.
The reason you're doing this is because you're dumb. No-one said anything about a crime being committed regarding the assistance lead to the attack. The overwhelming evidence shows a problematic pattern of trump associates meeting with Russian nationals involved in the 2016 attack on the US Presidential election. From day one that's been my position.

So you're just another shameless alt-right grifting f***wit aren't you? That means you're a bottomless pit of lies and bulls***, and you'll happily be wrong despite the facts for years if it means you don't have to say oops I'm wrong. You go all in on trump too and now feeling the sting a little bit? Because even someone as jaded by f***wits as me thought covid might electroshock you back to reality. But there you are, ignoring raw numbers to keep the dream alive. What hope is there of ramming something more complicated than that through the skulls of you dopey c****?
11:47pm 26/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4212 posts
Well looks like that hit a nerve.

The overwhelming evidence shows a problematic pattern of trump associates meeting with Russian nationals involved in the 2016 attack on the US Presidential election. From day one that's been my position.


Wait on. The position is not that Trump helped Russia attack America. It's that members of the trump campaign met Russian nationals? Not Russian spies or members of the Russian government. Just people with Russian passports. That's it? Yeah I think we know why fpot gets so frothy when actually pushed on this. He *desperately* needs to have his idiotic world view validated. Which means pointing to the actual text of the report which sunk his dreams means he must defend himself by pretending everyone who points the obvious incontestable truth is an "alt right grifter".
06:59am 27/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24724 posts
It 'a sad to see such desperation. You will get better results screaming at the sky.

- Fantastic new Supreme Court judge nominee fast tracked through prior to election
- Joe Biden appearing more senile every day
- The investigation into corrupt FBI and Obama administration spying on Trump campaign, colluding with Russian spies to craft fake dirt, yielding prosecutions. (Democrats really are a corrupt bunch of mopes.)
- wide spread left wing rioting destruction of property, looting in Democrat cities as a preview of what a Democrat presidency would be like. Defunding the police.

I don't think it's so much an October surprise to expect but a cumulation of many predictable events.
09:29am 27/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4213 posts
Meh it's entertaining to watch dumb people misunderstand what they read over and over.

I mean fpot links to a progressive think tanks opinion of the impeachment fiasco as "overwhelming evidence" for his point of view.

And as for the "analysis" of the Mueller report, it says "the Mueller report says X" but then for some reason doesnt pinpoint the report which is freely available. It plays this game for everyone one of its claims. It's also littered with the emotional adjectives fpot likes to use all time.

For example
Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails


That's how they describe a university professor in England whose ties to Russia are dubious at best telling Papadopoulos if Russia were to hack and obtain emails they might publish them. It is never established the professor had any actual knowledge of the hack and dump operation.

Weird how they don't provide direct links or quotes of the actual report for that right?

But then "history professor speculates Russia might publish stolen emails" is a fair bit less sexy than "Kremlin super spy gives minute by minute details of how the Russians plan to attack America."
09:55am 27/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6331 posts
That was alot of cherry picking as you said Bargain.

Look again.

The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states that it “does not exonerate” the President[10] and explains that the Office of Special Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be indicted.
The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings with senior officials—is damning to the President.


Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious: You'll see
here

The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition, Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false statements, and one count of witness tampering.


Why would they lie?

Why would Trump obstruct the investigation, and his tax returns with such desperation?

And why didnt Trump accept interviews?

Now put yourself in a non partisan viewpoint and tell me the Mueller report paints Trump & his associates as not being corrupt individuals. Not the child like response of "Both sides bad"
11:21am 27/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4214 posts
See I mean look. Here comes twiddle dumb *again* not linking to the actual report but to an analysis of the report which draws conclusions the authors of the report did not draw.
The actual report states this on page 8 of volume 2.
Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime it also doesn't exonerate him


Funny how a legal blog is super certain of something the people who spent 3 years investigating aren't sure of.

Because you and fpot are uneducated moron, it's understandable that you don't know why a prosecutor saying they "don't exonerate" means absolutely nothing.

Prosecutors prove crimes happened or they fail to prove them. If they cannot establish a crime the subject of the prosecution is by definition not guilty because they are entitled to the presumption of innocence. Curious how the "but muh norms" crowd seem not to know about fundamental norms of rule of law.

So no the report does not establish Trump obstructed justice, and the authors of the report are clear that they didn't. But it's funny now that the zee Russians story is up in flames *again* immediately they grope for the next conspiracy theory.

Numbnuts has even managed to work in the tax returns *which have nothing at all to do with the Russia investigation*.
11:58am 27/09/20 Permalink
bargain
Melbourne, Victoria
2051 posts
So you're just another shameless alt-right grifting f***wit aren't you? That means you're a bottomless pit of lies and bulls***, and you'll happily be wrong despite the facts for years if it means you don't have to say oops I'm wrong. You go all in on trump too and now feeling the sting a little bit? Because even someone as jaded by f***wits as me thought covid might electroshock you back to reality. But there you are, ignoring raw numbers to keep the dream alive. What hope is there of ramming something more complicated than that through the skulls of you dopey c****?
hahaha, genuinely got a good laugh out of that. Someone is definitely feeling the sting a little bit and I can assure you it isn't me, lol

Vash, it was never in the scope of the Special Council's investigation to 'clear' or 'exonerate' anyone. That's not what a prosecutor does.
This report is submitted to the Attorney General pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 600.8(c), which
states that, “[a]t the conclusion of the Special Counsel’s work, he . . . shall provide the Attorney
General a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions [the Special
Counsel] reached.”




As for the 'obstruction of justice', can you get anymore pathetic than this - from the report:
a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to
initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial
judgment
Hand-balled it to the House. So now, if the evidence was so 'damning', so 'particularly serious', so 'overwhelming', the House would have had no hesitation impeaching the president for Obstruction of Justice, right? *But they didn't*. Pretty funny that when they finally decided to pull the trigger on impeachment they went for two charges that aren't actually crimes instead of going for an actual crime backed up by so much damning evidence...
12:45pm 27/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6332 posts
Its just not going to get through to you lot is it?

Mueller said he could not indict a sitting president, and he could indict Trump if he were a private citizen.

The house knows how partisan the senate is. No impeachment was going to succeed while the GOP has the senate. But the democrats tried anyway for his next set of crimes, since the guy can't stop himself abusing the office they knew it would only be a matter of time until he f***ed up again.

That's why they spent so long trying to get the message to Trump's base that he's committed a crime before impeachment. But they dont care, nor do you.
02:44pm 27/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27204 posts
But they dont care, nor do you.
This is basically the essence of it. trump's supporters don't care how many crimes he commits or how serious they are. They're only interested in serving whatever weak bulls*** defense is handed to them by the twitter troll farm and they'll repeat it endlessly and shamelessly. The great mystery is why, why are people so willing to look the other way when trump is completely f*****g the dog in every department? Never had a satisfactory answer to that one and never will get one because that would require a compulsive liar to tell the truth.
04:38pm 27/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4215 posts
Its just not going to get through to you lot is it?

Mueller said he could not indict a sitting president, and he could indict Trump if he were a private citizen


It really is hysterical to watch vash and fpot ignore the text of Mueller report to continue their Hitler fantasy.

The Mueller report *simply didn't say anything like that*.

It indisputably said they did not conclude a crime had been committed. And the fact that you and fpot *never* quote directly from the report just shows a) you've never read it despite claiming you have and b) you don't know what you're talking about.

But what can you really do with someone who can say this

No-one said anything about a crime being committed regarding the assistance lead to the attack


And say this

trump's supporters don't care how many crimes he commits or how serious they are.


Trump didn't commit a crime but trump supporters don't care how many crimes he commits.

One way you might try to resolve your cognitive dissonance is to accuse everyone who points out you don't make any sense and appear to be a little slow is to say oh it's all alt right grifters.
05:44pm 27/09/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1346 posts

lol fpot getting roasted for hate speech and stupidity.

Oh that orange man is so nasty..

China's President Xi claims 'happiness' reigns in Xinjiang's mass detention network
More than 1 million ethnic Uyghurs are detained in Xinjiang, but Mr Xi said China's policy for re-education in the region "is completely correct". However experts have described China's actions as 'cultural genocide'.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-28/chinese-president-xi-jinping-uyghur-xinjiang-correct-happiness/12708930


10:37pm 27/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4216 posts
Lmfao *another* body blow for the Russian tin foil hat brigade above.

donald trump taxes leaked

They comprise information that Mr. Trump has disclosed to the I.R.S., not the findings of an independent financial examination. They report that Mr. Trump owns hundreds of millions of dollars in valuable assets, but they do not reveal his true wealth. Nor do they reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.


The shady deals were all supposed to be hiding in his tax returns. Oh well.
09:49am 28/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24725 posts
I am sure the Russian connections are in the unleaked papers. Goddam journos can't even leak the right tax records.
10:17am 28/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
894 posts
2nd Feb

10th Feb

24th Feb

"That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here," Pelosi said. "Come because precautions have been taken. The city is on top of the situation."

25th March original decision
10:55am 28/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27206 posts
You'd have a real great point there dazed except trump is president and he's the one responsible for the actual response which is one of the greatest failures of government in modern history.
12:55pm 28/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6333 posts
Here you go Infi.

Also since you seem to look down on wasteful spending in Government, Trump spent $340m taxpayer money on his golf trips alone. And he only paid $750 in tax in 2016, 2017.
But the winning narrative from his supporters is he doesn't take a presidential income? Who needs it when you can use taxpayer money in your resort & other businesses.
01:19pm 28/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24726 posts
Every president needs a little down time Vash. Don't be so tough on Obama.

The golf course is also a great place to get business done, if say trying to get senators to vote for your extremely conservative anti-abortion supreme court nominee.
01:29pm 28/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4217 posts
Remember in the long long ago (yesterday) when trump must be guilty because he obstructed (lol he's not the sharpest tool in the shed our vash) his tax returns.
Why would Trump obstruct the investigation, and his tax returns with such desperation?

Today the complaint is too much golf.
Trump spent $340m taxpayer money on his golf trips alone.


That's a decent climb down from Trump helped Russian attack 'Murica because he wouldn't publish his tax returns.
01:53pm 28/09/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27207 posts
You can now add tax fraud to the list of crimes that no longer matter to trump supporters.
02:23pm 28/09/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24727 posts
No one in the media his suggested tax fraud that I can see. They are alleging that Trump is a terrible businessman - who owns his own commercial airliner inlaid with gold.

It's called "doing an Emma Alberici".
02:39pm 28/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4218 posts
Trump supporters don't care about the crimes I make up those Nazis.
04:24pm 28/09/20 Permalink
Vash
6334 posts
Understood. So it's ok when the orange guy wastes taxpayer money. Just so we're clear on the continuing hypocrisy.
04:35pm 28/09/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4219 posts
Understood. So it's ok when the orange guy wastes taxpayer money. Just so we're clear on the continuing hypocrisy.


Just so we're clear, trying to push Trump's golfing after being wrong about Trump ending democracy in cahoots with Russia is the most pathetic attempt at whataboutism I've ever seen.

As in I'm confident I could literally train a rhesus monkey to do it better.
05:24pm 28/09/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
895 posts
Watch now how "tax fraud" morphs into "tax cheat" just like "tax returns will prove Trump has business interests in Russia" morphed into "tax fraud".
12:20pm 29/09/20 Permalink
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