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Political Thread 3
Mantra
Crusty old man
Other International
3076 posts
Lot of European countries with "Medicare for all" the same colour as the US on that map vash.

Do try to make one post which is not self defeating.


Er... what does that have to do with anything? Late and mishandling of a pandemic isn't going to be fixed by "medicare for all". However, it would certainly help?.. surely?!

It feels like it's an especially bad self own when it's a picture though.


Still not seeing the especially bad self own, enlighten me.
01:30am 27/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4066 posts
Er... what does that have to do with anything? Late and mishandling of a pandemic isn't going to be fixed by "medicare for all". However, it would certainly help?.. surely?!


The Medicare for all point relates to mortality rates and the US is doing ok on that point. Although it also relates to an interesting point about testing and the reality of physically making the tests. People can't have a yooman right to something that doesn't exist.

And as for the picture, firstly number of cases is less important than how well a country deals with the cases it has, and secondly if the US was doing especially badly it would be a lot worse than countries of comparable wealth. And it is not. It's tracking about the same as western Europe.

So either all of western Europe bungled their response or the US is doing ok.

It would be particularly interesting to see what happens to that map we you take New York's numbers out.
06:59am 27/04/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41464 posts
yes, will be installing app, everyone in my family here will be.

we're super isolated anyway, but i think its a useful use of my data and i'd certainly want to know if i could have been possibly exposed to someone who is sick.
07:05am 27/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39969 posts
Read a lot of stuff on how cases per million people is not an especially useful metric, because it's bound by the amount of testing being done. i.e., if you're not testing at scale, you might show a low case number.

There was a very compelling argument (that I can't remember the details of) which was "cases per 1000 tests done", which made the data more revealing because it helped control for the scale of testing. (S Korea was at the top, US was 2nd or 3rd last, UK was last, in the data I saw).

(wb Mantra!)
08:01am 27/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39970 posts
On Covidsafe app - here is a technical teardown of the Android app. Not a complete analysis but it's a good start.

the tldr is it works pretty much as advertised.
08:03am 27/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
853 posts
What do our resident socialists think of the fact that US hospitals get paid per Chinese virus case reported and per ventilator required? Reckon this has any effect on reporting, or everyone who runs hospitals are complete angels and the tiktok stupidity is just overworked nurses blowing off steam on extremely expensive hardware?
03:59pm 27/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27004 posts
Congrats on confirming your status as the dumbest piece of s*** on here by being the first to use the term chinese virus.
04:12pm 27/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24654 posts
Is "Made in China" OK?
05:47pm 27/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
854 posts
fpot bites on even the most obvious of bait. I can't make it more low-IQ save outright saying "this is for fpots frothing" upfront.
03:54pm 28/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27005 posts
fpot bites on even the most obvious of bait. I can't make it more low-IQ save outright saying "this is for fpots frothing" upfront.
This is known as the puppet master defense. Pretending that you've somehow trapped a person into a response with wit and guile is how a narcissist will trick themselves into thinking they haven't just said something really dumb. This sort of thinking helps when you're running from the truth.
04:50pm 28/04/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1294 posts
I don't see it called the "Chinese Virus" much but it certainly gets called the "Whu flu" often. I see people call it the "Kung Flu" which seems silly.

I watched what Trump said about the bright light and disinfecting and I think the spin is BS, and what he actually said, in context. was quite reasonable. The spin and the BS is pretty amusing, knowing a great deal of the ADHD tism'ed youth and nutters who actually hate the guy would not even check the source but go with the spin, memes, pretty cartoons and BS cause it fits their narrative.

I recently observed some outstanding social media content from some deeply religious people that was full of"hate" and it was fascinating. To see how much they could express self righteous 'hatred' whilst thumping theory as fact was a concerning experience. They were mostly Americans.. and once again I got to say it...

The interest for me in how or what they vote for in the USA elections is not really of that big a concern for me. I think it's a joke and their nation may be big, but bigger is not always better. I'm glad I do't live there. Generally, I think the various leaders a nation has is a good insight into its people. I think it's appropriate for Americans to be emrassressed by goofs by Trump.. but not to hate him. I think hes just trying to do he's best for the nation, not just himself, as their nation is struggling to come up with really impressive leaders.

Really, Bernie.. Hillary, Trump. Biden, many of the others... They just don't seem to be getting amazing talent. It's their own fault, it's their nation, and it's kind of amusing to watch over the decades.. I thin it's really about Americans coming to grips with the idea that as a nation, they are not as fantastic as they kid themselves. I think we are seeing them slowly come to realise this. Putting a man on the moon and dropping the first nukes in war do not make up for the social and economic issues they have. Issues far worse than ours. We should be very thankful we don't live there... and we do not have the poverty and racial problems they have. We might have that a little bit, but... that place it out off the charts.

So I tend to watch the whole thing with amusement because I think it's better to laugh at it than be emotionally invested in a place that is essentially a war machine.

I do deeply respect what a nation they built in such little time. It's admirable... but somewhere things started to turn, and it wasn't as recent as Trump coming on the scene.

And no fpot, that's not a meltdown, that's a rant.
07:52pm 28/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6652 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
06:29am 29/04/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39972 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
teehee

still waiting on that Pacific Crest Trail post Scooter
08:56am 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4067 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?


In context it really isn't that crazy. He isn't saying grab some drano and boot up.

And before you jump down my throat. I took 10 seconds to have a look if anyone credentialed had looked into it. Turns out they have.

hydrogen peroxide inhalers actually have been looked at for specifically treating coronavirus.

Another household name for hydrogen peroxide is bleach. Very commonly used as a household disinfectant.

If your objection is the president shouldn't be spit balling on tv then ok. But that's the objection.

As for the sarcasm. Well trolling the media is his past time.
09:33am 29/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27006 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?
Well you see he didn't actually say that and it's just the spin that made it look like he said that, despite the video of him clearly saying that.

Prepare yourself for another dishonest pile of word salad in support of this.
01:22pm 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4068 posts
Well you see he didn't actually say that and it's just the spin that made it look like he said that, despite the video of him clearly saying that.

Prepare yourself for another dishonest pile of word salad in support of this.


This what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.

He's mostly just sad he divided 350 twice and got the wrong answer.
01:50pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
157 posts
In context it really isn't that crazy. He isn't saying grab some drano and boot up.

And before you jump down my throat. I took 10 seconds to have a look if anyone credentialed had looked into it. Turns out they have.

hydrogen peroxide inhalers actually have been looked at for specifically treating coronavirus.

Another household name for hydrogen peroxide is bleach. Very commonly used as a household disinfectant.

If your objection is the president shouldn't be spit balling on tv then ok. But that's the objection.

As for the sarcasm. Well trolling the media is his past time.


Are you sure you want to stand by this as an informed statement?
It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


last edited by Fireman Sam at 18:48:26 29/Apr/20
06:42pm 29/04/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
855 posts
Trump isn't afraid of saying something that might sound dumb because he has already been wildly successful in his life and doesn't need the partisan approval of fungal growths like some people on this forum. That's the long and short of it and that's why successful people are successful and fpot is fpot.
06:47pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6653 posts
Damn, I wish I could be wildly successful enough to get millions of dollars from my father and lose most of it, then bankrupt a casino.
07:40pm 29/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4069 posts
Are you sure you want to stand by this as an informed statement?
It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


I'm happy for you to explain to me how in the context of presenting research on what kills the virus(which is what was being discussed), why asking if something *like* disinfectant can be used medically is like totally super stupid.

It seems like a perfectly logical follow up question to me.

And as it turns it people are actually independently looking into it. So if it's so stupid step me through why apparently smart people were literally already researching it.
08:50pm 29/04/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1295 posts
You think it's quite reasonable for a person in a position of high power to say that Injecting disinfectant into people is a reasonable thing that 'medical doctors' should look into?


Yes, and I think you should check whether he was actually telling / suggesting / instructing them they "should' do. I've worked in RnD for years. You look into anything and everything remotely possible. I think you should read the transcript instead of getting your news from memes and forum comments. Maybe you got your news from "Australia's most trusted news" where they posted "he suggested injecting disinfectant".

An uncle of mne is a professor who specialises in cancer cure research RnD. He's on TV sometimes. They basically look at ways to kill the cancer without killing the person. Lost of it involves poisoning the body, and making variations of of different viruses and existing flus. One of the influenza variant studies was proven beneficial in a type of cancer. So he's team basically f**** around with different types of viruses in laboratories.

I know a doctor who specialises in studies on things like Anthrax. Her and her team basically f**** around with different types of bacteria.

You probably believe WuFlu originated in a wet market and somehow jumped from a bat to a human. You think it's possible a live bat expelled particles from it's tiny lungs that reached human nasal cavity? Or you just don't think much about this stuff unless it's provided in a pretty meme that supports your confirmation bias (Trump hate) or twitter feed with some hashtags. Maybe you prefer the simple explanations like a photo or meme of a chinese woman eating a bat?

It's pretty clear you didn't watch the video or read the transcript including the discussion with the medical professional immediately before the comments that were taken out of context.

There are sites that objectively review the accuracy of news and the skewed sensationalised claims of clickbait news headlines and articles and they pretty much conclude the hype is unwarranted in this case.

I inject oxymetazoline hydrochloride into my body occasionally but not intravenously.

We are in some pretty deep s*** and politicians don't like to induce panic. Overall I think they are downplaying things a bit. On your car you can't treat your dirty air filter by adding stuff to your engine oil, fuel, hydraulic fluid or coolant. The human body is more than the circulatory system. COVID19 appears to be respiratory related. I clearly do not read or hear trump saying anything that resembles get a syringe and inject household disinfectant into your bloodstream. However you can choose to dream that is what he said if your head is stuck far enough up your rectal passage.

My guess is that it's unlikely a pill or syringe stuck in your shoulder will treat the virus. Not within years. If they can get a vaccine for this, then they should effectively have been able to get a vaccine for the common cold. A vaccine for the common cold would have made Big Pharma shareholders very wealthy. So it's not like they haven't ever tried to do something similar in the past. That is why I believe we are in some pretty deep s*** with this one.

Do you know what the Wuhan Laboratory studied?

"Wet market" or "American introduction by military personnel to China" my arse.

Bleat like a sheep and save your tears for November this year... and if Trump gets in again... reach out to https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ or call flight centre and move to one of those economically and socially wonderful marxist nations fpot or vash so easily listed..

Oh I can't find that list... where did it go?
01:03pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6654 posts
“I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So you’re going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s pretty powerful.”


-Trump.

"I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning."

Would you like me to repeat it again?
03:11pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4070 posts
If you could kindly step through what you think
is there a way we can do something like that

means, that would be really helpful.
03:24pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6655 posts
Now who's taking it out of context? Please complete the sentence. "something like that by injection inside"

The 'something like that' he was referring to was the cleaning of surfaces, with disinfectants. He wanted to clean peoples insides, with disinfectant, by injection.
05:44pm 30/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24655 posts
In this lesson of retarded grammar, we learn how asking a hypothetical question can be easily misconstrued as as a definite statement of instruction. chrurrr
05:53pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6656 posts
Even still, someone in that position shouldn't be 'asking a hypothetical' question about injecting disinfectant into people.
06:11pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4071 posts
The 'something like that' he was referring to was the cleaning of surfaces, with disinfectants. He wanted to clean peoples insides, with disinfectant, by injection.


I disagree. I think the 'something like that' is more likely to be referring to the property of disinfectant that
knocks it out in a minute, one minute


Is there something like that you could inject?

I simply don't see how you get to injecting household chlorine bleach from what was said. Or even experimenting with it to be honest. Disinfectants aren't necessarily poisonous to humans so I really don't understand why you'd fill in that blank with an obviously dangerous chemical.
06:45pm 30/04/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27008 posts
Nmag with the uncle who works at Nintendo. I remember children used to try that one in primary school. Even for someone that age it's a pretty pathetic ploy. I also totes know a doctor who works with anthrax - that will make my bulls*** seem believable!

Ahhh for someone who sees these kinds of people as sport, who gets pleasure from wretched pieces of scum who're forced into this intellectual sunk cost scenario where they've gone all in early and are now forced to defend the man who says magical light and injecting bleach is a good thing is surreal. I'm not going to say it's easy. When they just posted on their My Little Pony incel forums it was okay because they were safely cordoned off from society. Now a talisman of theirs is in power and killing thousands which is actually quite upsetting. They helped that happen.
06:56pm 30/04/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24656 posts
Despite the hysterical over-reaction to this statement I will admit Trump simply didn't need to even go there. He has no business speculating about experimental medical treatments. It's not the leader's job. He can't resist the camera and microphone. I hope this hit in the chin gets him to zip it for a while so the medical system can do it's thing.

The NY and California governors are sadly f*****g it up so let them stand by their records.
06:56pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6657 posts
Yes, something like that. Something like disinfectant, you could inject straight into people. Don't forget the UV either, get that s*** through the skin! Or inside some other way.
I've never said bleach, your lack comprehension is possibly why you're willing to give Trump a pass on this.

Also, the reason you might be thinking bleach is because that was one of the types of 'disinfectant' they had on screen just before Trump was talking which he was referring to when he said;

I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning.

https://youtu.be/PsQnfpfIa_o?t=1518
06:59pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4072 posts
Yes, something like that. Something like disinfectant, you could inject straight into people.


I read that sentence as saying something other than disinfectant. Something similar but not identical too. Which is the ordinary meaning of the word like.

Are you trying to say you read the grammatical purpose of like in that sentence as specifying disinfectant?

The reason I am talking about bleach is the news story posted to start this conversation which you can see here stated Trump recommended injecting bleach.

But if you are now saying any disinfectant at all you are further and not closer to addressing this point
Disinfectants aren't necessarily poisonous to humans so I really don't understand why you'd fill in that blank with an obviously dangerous chemical.


Can you categorically say there is no 'disinfectant' that may have therapeutic value? If not it seems like a logical thing to look into to me.

Regardless, if the essence of your complaint is this
He has no business speculating about experimental medical treatments


The reason I give him a pass is that I don't particularly care what possible treatments are in the pipeline.

I'll start paying attention when something starts approaching successful clinical trials. But as for what gets a first pass look? Who cares.
07:54pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6658 posts
The reason I am talking about bleach


That's cool. The reason Trump was referring to disinfectant is because it was on the big screen TV moments before he was talking. Then he took a leap from cleaning surfaces to injecting disenfectant into people. Like the ones that he saw on the TV.
08:33pm 30/04/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4073 posts
The reason Trump was referring to disinfectant is because it was on the big screen TV moments before he was talking. Then he took a leap from cleaning surfaces to injecting disenfectant into people. Like the ones that he saw on the TV.


Maybe. But at 30:32 he then goes on to say it wouldn't be through an injection.

I think it is pretty obvious he is talking about whether a disinfectant can have a medical use.

As I've said before. The answer to that question is yes. hydrogen peroxide is a disinfectant and can used in an inhaler to treat respiratory infections.

I am not saying he knew about those. It looks like a thought bubble to me.

But again if your objection is he shouldn't be having thought bubbles during press conferences I can respect that. But I don't care even a little bit. And it is absolutely not recommending self medicating with kitchen cleaners.
09:46pm 30/04/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6659 posts
Oh, that's OK then if he contradicted himself less than 5 minutes later in the same brief. I suppose we see that a lot from political 'leaders' though.
08:11am 01/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39974 posts
The NY and California governors are sadly f*****g it up so let them stand by their records.
I just think the US (and UK) are, basically, screwed.

They f***ed around too long and let it establish too large a beachhead. Their reaction, at all levels of government (but spearheaded by the obviously totally incorrect and clueless pressers from the executive), was too little and too late and now they're just f***ed. Of course it's exacerbated by their size and other factors, but it was made much much worse by the administration casually dismissing it as a concern, in front of the entire nation, repeatedly.

It is not clear to me that they can get their rate under control at this stage. I do not think their political leadership has the will or courage to shut down to the point needed to get it under control.

Prevention is always, always better than the cure and the world is getting a huge object lesson in that at the moment.

I am terrified for the US (I have very close family and many friends there) and all the other countries that have half-assed and continue to half-ass their response. But I am still super worried about Australia. The next few weeks are going to be key. I like the very gradual rollback we're doing, it feels like the right time and the right scale (at least in Qld, haven't looked at what other states are doing). But I'm also sure we're going to see some people that think it's "over" and having parties and risking lives.

Stay distanced! Wear masks! Do everything you can to reduce risk. The harder we push now the more likely it is we'll get out of it soon.
08:43am 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4074 posts
Oh, that's OK then if he contradicted himself less than 5 minutes later in the same brief. I suppose we see that a lot from political 'leaders' though.


If he were talking about some settled policy position then it would be a problem.

But he is talking about possible avenues of experimental research during a press conference dedicated to reporting of experimental research that has been done to date.

In the context in which the conversation was taking place I am really not seeing the issue.

Can you just spell out your objection? Because all I'm hearing is you don't like the president spitballing hypotheticals in press conferences.
10:29am 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24657 posts
I have 3 ply civilian and KN95 masks for sale. Plastic shields if you are dealing with people expelling blood, and other droplets. Hand sanitiser arriving next week.
10:35am 01/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
856 posts
defend the man who says magical light


UV catheters already exist to treat the respiratory tract.

You need only extrapolate fpots propensity to comment on things he knows absolutely nothing about to the rest of the posts on this forum to safely dismiss it and just troll the knob instead.
11:05am 01/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6660 posts
Because all I'm hearing is you don't like the president spitballing hypotheticals in press conferences.


The president spitballing injecting disinfectants into people is definitely something I take objection too.
11:39am 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4075 posts
Yeah ok but why?

If it is recast as looking at medical uses for disinfectants, which is completely justified by the context, what is the problem?

I can tell you the focus on this type of s*** by the media rather than on things like using the DP act on meatpacking companies scares me a lot more than anything said in the press conference. Some genuine investigation of how close they are to having their food supply chains collapse seems a touch more important to me.
12:58pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27009 posts
UV catheters already exist to treat the respiratory tract.
Yes yes that's what he meant! Which is why alt-right media went into meltdown defending him by changing the meaning of words and the next day he said he was being sarcastic. Please refer to Fireman Sam's comment which applies to you also -

It really does show you spent no more than ten seconds just trying to find an answer that suited a nonsense position that you've taken. Because this is really what a total lack of critical faculties looks like.


edit: some very rudimentary googling showed examples of catheters being sterilised with UV light, but I couldn't find anything about UV light being used in catheters to fight infection. Lying again there mate?
02:41pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1296 posts
The problem is this pp:

Trump probbaly says 300000 words a week that are captured by media. What does media do? Takes a sentence and twist it and then promote it worldwide. I quoted ABC News where they posted "he suggested injecting disinfectant".

That's not what he said or did.

It's this swisting and lack of media integrity combined with sensational promotion that gets idiots to try it. I'd never heard of coward punch or eating a tide pod if it wasn't for media pushing this stuff around. Look what is does to TDS sufferers.. it doesn't help, it only helps feed their confirmation bias.

None of this would have happened if it's wasn't for capitalism. Yum potatoes.

Today:

". Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang cited the institute's director, Yuan Zhiming, as saying the lab strictly implements biosecurity procedures that would prevent the release of any pathogen. The [intelligence community] will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan," the ODNI said.
03:20pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27010 posts
I see we're entering the it was a bioweapon released by China stage of conspiracy numptitude.
03:27pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6284 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.

So was it taken out of context, or was he sarcastic, guys?

Oh look, a post by Nmag crying about the ABC again.
05:24pm 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4076 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.

So was it taken out of context, or was he sarcastic, guys?


Well it was mostly to protect people like you vash. So I guess you tell us, did you think you should inject Drano?
06:16pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24658 posts
The FDA & disinfectant producers had to release warnings over the President's statements.


Airlines have to warn that bags of peanuts contain peanuts. Whatvs your point?
06:54pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27011 posts
His point was that during a COVID-19 press conference The President of the United States of America suggested injecting bleach and magical light as treatments for COVID infected patients. As a result of this easily impressionable people (his base) were at risk of following that advice resulting in the FDA and disinfectant producers to take mitigating action by warning against it. This was probably after The President of the United States of America peddled the last miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and it killed one person and made another gravely ill after they took it in fish tank cleaner form.
07:13pm 01/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6661 posts
Heard on the radio, cannot find a news link. Take with Grain of Salt.

Scotty was talking about possible easing of restrictions for Australia (as if States aren't already doing it themselves.) One thing he spoke of was the 40% (of Australians? Phones?) target for Covid Tracking App installs. He spoke that it wasn't the only factor but would be 'Heavily' considered during the discussion.

Seemed to be implying that we'd all have to stay in our rooms if we weren't good little boys and girls and installed their tracking app. How many people have installed it? Is it killing your battery as fast as others are reporting it is? Also Apple users; Have they fixed the fact that it needs to be open, unlocked and active yet?
07:36pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24659 posts
As per the nuts example, retarded people do retarded things. Also hot coffee can burn.
07:37pm 01/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4077 posts
This was probably after The President of the United States of America peddled the last miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and it killed one person and made another gravely ill after they took it in fish tank cleaner form.


I interesting footnote on guilability here.

there is a homicide investigation into the man's death

Looks like the wife might have been relying on this kind of impressionibility to get away with murder
As a result of this easily impressionable people (his base) were at risk


Don't forget, From the story:

“What bothers me about this is that Gary was a very intelligent man, a retired (mechanical) engineer who designed systems for John Deere in Waterloo, Iowa, and I really can’t see the scenario where Gay would say, ‘Yes, please, I would love to drink some of that Koi fish tank cleaner,'” one friend told the outlet. “It just doesn’t make sense.”


That man was *much* more highly educated than fpot.
07:53pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27012 posts
Also hot coffee can burn.
Did you ever see the photographs of the person who burned themselves with McDonalds coffee?
08:03pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24660 posts
No, do you have it?
08:43pm 01/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27013 posts
They're on the internet.
08:46pm 01/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39975 posts
How many people have installed it?
I heard 3.5m earlier today but I haven't found an official source of this that I trust

in "the tech", people usually talk about "active users" as a metric of success of your app (e.g., monthly active users, daily active users, etc"). These are the numbers that certain groups care about (e.g., advertisers) as they more realistically demonstrate reach, and are thus considered more useful, than sheer # of installs.

So the # of installs is one number, but the number that matters - especially given the issues with iPhones - is the # of people that have it installed and it is actively checking in to report it is running and/or working.

Also Apple users; Have they fixed the fact that it needs to be open, unlocked and active yet?
no
09:04pm 01/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24661 posts
If we all install the app on our phones when we are literally doing nothing of interest all day I figure who gives a damn. Once the quarantine ends we uninstall it.

All they will see on my profile is me ferrying between home, work and the public toilet cubicle I sit in for hours at a time just to have some private time with my thoughts.
10:35am 02/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39977 posts
All they will see on my profile is me ferrying between home, work and the public toilet cubicle I sit in for hours at a time just to have some private time with my thoughts.
they won't see that - it does not track location from GPS.

It /only/ tracks intersections between devices running the app.

The Android app has been reverse engineered to validate this - also it does not require the GPS permissions. I assume the iOS app also does not ask for location permissions (IIRC the permission model is different and it puts up a prompt to ask permission for GPS?)
10:53am 02/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1297 posts

They said 4 today. I think they also said it's not turned on yet. Collects via bluetooth when it contacts another bluetooth phone with the app on. Also heard something about the pubs will expect patrons to have it. We are pretty keen to get back to pubs, clubs and restaurants.

US officials familiar with intelligence reporting and analysis have said ...they believe it was either introduced through human contact with wildlife at a meat market in the central city of Wuhan, or could have escaped from one of two Wuhan government laboratories believed to be conducting civilian research into possible biological hazards.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-04/pompeo-says-evidence-shows-coronavirus-emerged-from-chinese-lab/12210882

I don't buy into the bioweapon theory but I certainly believe it's more likely an accidental laboratory escape than a transmission from a market. Like I said earlier:

One guy I know plays with influenza in cancer local research laboratories.
One woman I know plays with anthrax in local research laboratories.

This RnD stuff goes on all over.

Wet market escape my arse... more like it got out of the lab and they tried to cover it up.. by the time they explained the emergency it had already gone global. They knew much earlier.

Seen the lego movie?

And Vash, that's not a cry about ABC.. That's demonstrating even ABC (who we would expect to have more integrity) takes hype and rewords chinese whispers to create inaccurate hype based on twisted lies.

Conclusion
The wider public may be unaware that psychiatrists and social scientists spend considerable time and energy behind closed doors pondering over the existence and reality of mental conditions. This has led the APA to revise the DSM five times since 1952, considerably expanding the list of official mental disorders with each revision. As far as I am aware, few psychiatrists are currently arguing that DSM-6 should contain TDS as a mental disorder.

That said, in its official definition of mental disorder, the DSM-5 states that "a mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior…mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."

Many have argued that some people have been seriously disturbed and distressed by the policies, speech, behavior, and tweets of President Trump, so much so that it has affected their cognitive, affective, and behavioral functioning. Such people may need mental health support. As such, further research is necessary to investigate the extreme reactions toward President Trump, in the same way that researchers investigate other extreme social phenomena, such as Beatlemania or the like. This will shed light on the reality of this emerging folk category that has been labelled by many as "Trump Derangement Syndrome."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201901/is-trump-derangement-syndrome-real-mental-condition?page=1
03:23pm 03/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17007 posts
I wish I could say I was surprised that the resident Trump supporters are defending his ludicrous disinfectant suggestion. I refer you to the facts:

- Trump suggested during his pandemic update that disinfectants, injected or otherwise, might be useful as therapy. He directed his science team in the room to look into it.
- Following the inevitable backlash over his inane remarks, he claimed that he was being sarcastic (ie, deliberately lying) to the media to watch the reaction and because the media is unfairly mean to him.

So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies. I watched the interview a few times and see no evidence of sarcasm, and I don't think the likes of PP think he was being sarcastic either, because we have this desperate search for even remotely disinfectant-related therapies to back up his spit balling.

As always a relevant xkcd:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cells.png

The reality is that Trump is at best a pretty stupid person who overstates his mental capacity at every opportunity. He believes that he is actually very smart, and that he 'gets' epidemiology in some sort of intuitive way that doesn't require hard work and education. The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.

To believe that he could have made a credible and useful insight here - the insight being 'disinfectant kills the virus very quickly on the benchtop, maybe we can use that as a therapy, I better tell everyone about it! I bet nobody thought of THAT! Let's get some doctors on it'

Textbook Dunning-Kruger. And you guys scramble to find excuses for it because not-Democrat.

Wet market escape my arse... more like it got out of the lab and they tried to cover it up..


Except that we know that viruses mutate and jump species to humans, its how these epidemics start. There is no evidence to suggest a lab break as the source, and numerous scientists studying the virus have reported on review that there is no evidence that the virus was edited in the lab. Your tinfoil hat is showing.

The Chinese tried to cover up the SARS-Cov outbreak in 2003, we should not be surprised at all that they tried to cover up SARS-Cov2 in 2019.
01:16pm 05/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24663 posts
The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.

To believe that he could have made a credible and useful insight here - the insight being 'disinfectant kills the virus very quickly on the benchtop, maybe we can use that as a therapy, I better tell everyone about it! I bet nobody thought of THAT! Let's get some doctors on it'


I agree with you. He shouldn't have done it.
01:52pm 05/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27014 posts
I don't buy into the bioweapon theory but I certainly believe it's more likely an accidental laboratory escape than a transmission from a market. Like I said earlier:

One guy I know plays with influenza in cancer local research laboratories.
One woman I know plays with anthrax in local research laboratories.
Yeah, but these are lies. The typical mundane lies you tell because you're a complete deads***. You should really stop.
02:06pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4078 posts
So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies. I watched the interview a few times and see no evidence of sarcasm, and I don't think the likes of PP think he was being sarcastic either, because we have this desperate search for even remotely disinfectant-related therapies to back up his spit balling.


I don't believe he was being sarcastic.

But a better description of this

So we still don't know if he was being serious, but as usual we must try and find truth within his evasions and outright lies.


Would be we don't need to try to discover anything because it was clearly an off the cuff comment. And not a particularly illogical one in the context. The proof of this is the actual ongoing research in the area.

But better yet it could be worth thinking about whether or not the wildly overstated death tolls bandied about (which are going to be avoided) have something to do with the desire (some might say desperate desire) to focus on something like that.

And you guys scramble to find excuses for it because not-Democrat.


Speaking of partisan blindness have you detected a subtle difference in the coverage of Tara Reade's allegation against Biden vs Kavanaugh? Because I consider this issue linked to the disinfectant one.
02:13pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17008 posts
Would be we don't need to try to discover anything because it was clearly an off the cuff comment. And not a particularly illogical one in the context. The proof of this is the actual ongoing research in the area.

But better yet it could be worth thinking about whether or not the wildly overstated death tolls bandied about (which are going to be avoided) have something to do with the desire (some might say desperate desire) to focus on something like that.

Deflection and excuses.

If this was something that he had said during an internal briefing, it leaked and people were mocking him for it I would back him 100%. He has the right to ask, and should be engaged and seeking solutions without fear that his non-scientific background will be held against him. But it wasn't an off the cuff moment, it was a nationally televised pandemic update. This is not the place for off the cuff rambling (or as some supporters call it 'digesting information') and your support of it is completely absurd. Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency? Daily and without contrition? You'd be justifiably ropeable.

But you excuse him, and you also seem to have hand waved his lies and deflection about trolling the press like it doesn't matter.

Speaking of partisan blindness have you detected a subtle difference in the coverage of Tara Reade's allegation against Biden vs Kavanaugh? Because I consider this issue linked to the disinfectant one.

My interest in American politics is really around the woeful and damaging Federal Government response to the pandemic, and in particular how it is interpreted through the conservative prism. I barely know who these people are, let alone provide a meaningful insight into the seemingly ubiquitous sexual assault allegations against male American politicians.

Edit: props to infi.
03:02pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4079 posts
If this was something that he had said during an internal briefing, it leaked and people were mocking him for it I would back him 100%.


Call me cynical if you must, but I have my doubts.

Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency? Daily and without contrition? You'd be justifiably ropeable.

But you excuse him, and you also seem to have hand waved his lies and deflection about trolling the press like it doesn't matter.


His trolling of the press doesn't matter. If they had something approaching a modicum of professionalism among them it would concern me more but they don't. If fact they can be relied on to the get the big issues wrong continuously. So I do not have even a slight problem with them being treated as the side show they are. You can probably blame Google and Facebook for their current state but it is what it is.

Can you imagine if Julia or Kevin or Hillary or Joe or Trudeau went on like this during press conferences as the Head of State during a national emergency?


It's funny to me that you include Joe Biden in that list. Because I've never minded Joe's gaffs, and keep in mind he is famous for them and always has been. And I don't mind them now though I note they have gotten worse recently.

As for Kevin "programmatic specificity" Rudd I would trade his nonsensical "intelligent" press briefings that said nothing by design for someone how speaks genuinely but inarticulatly every day of the week.

My interest in American politics is really around the woeful and damaging Federal Government response to the pandemic, and in particular how it is interpreted through the conservative prism.


I don't think you can't understand the matter through the conservative prism without understanding the difference in that coverage.
04:52pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17009 posts
^ Nothing I feel compelled to respond to; especially after you claim that POTUS' lies and fanciful anti-science remarks to the American people don't matter. You are not having this discussion in good faith.

In related news, Trump (yesterday?) admitted that his forecast of a COVID-19 vaccine by the end of the year was against expert advice, even as he was saying it.

Actual doctors think otherwise.
05:10pm 05/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4080 posts
It's very much up to you. But I can tell that I am having the conversation in good faith.
05:56pm 05/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39978 posts
I live in hope we can might get other general purpose coronavirus vaccines out of this that will help stamp out the common cold
06:19pm 05/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1298 posts

Oh look Trog agrees with me.. but he can't see it as he runs TDSButthurt2.0 script to hide me.

Making a vaccine for this is basically like making a vaccine for the common cold. We have not done that before. The ingress point is up in the nasal cavity. That causes challenges. There is a slight slight slight chance... we could end up injecting a nasal spray a couple times a day to eliminate/reduce transmission at the ingress point. But what would I know? ask fpot... he's a genius.

I don't think Trump was being sarcastic either. I think he was talking out his arse, but media took what he said out of context... and people tend to absorb interviews with narration from d******* journalists who frame things out of context with spin. I doubt the average TDS suffered watched the interview objectively including the 5-10 minutes before he said that.

We don't have evidence to not rule out the lab.

This planet is huge. 20 miles up the road from the market is this lab. Coincidence? We are expected to believe them. They wouldn't know themselves if it was the lab or the market, or other... but they say "The market". It's like farting and pointing to the guy next to you.

Have you seen the Lego movie?

Here is a giant article ruling it out. I haven't read the whole thing. I'm sure it has a wonderful argument for why we should believe China that it did not escape as a result of activities at that lab. Remember I'm not saying it was purposely made, or anything silly like bioweapons. I'm wouldn't rule out accidental escape. again, from the article that says it was unlikely the lab:

Some have focused on the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

In 2015, WIV became China's first lab to reach the highest level of bioresearch safety, or BSL-4, meaning the lab could host research on the world's most dangerous pathogens, such as Ebola and Marburg viruses. (SARS-CoV-2 would require a BSL-3 or higher, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.) Labs like these must follow strict safety guidelines that include filtering air, treating water and waste before they exit, and requiring lab personnel to shower and change their clothes before and after entering the facility, Nature News reported in 2017.

These types of labs do spur concerns among some scientists who worry about the risks involved and the potential impact on public health if anything were to go wrong, Nature News reported.

WIV was not immune to those concerns. In 2018, after scientist diplomats from the U.S. embassy in Beijing visited the WIV, they were so concerned by the lack of safety and management at the lab that the diplomats sent two official warnings back to the U.S. One of the official cables, obtained by The Washington Post, suggested that the lab's work on bat coronaviruses with the potential for human transmission could risk causing a new SARS-like pandemic, Post columnist Josh Rogin wrote.

"During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory," the officials said in their cable dated to Jan. 19, 2018.

When reports of the coronavirus first popped up in China, the U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger reportedly suspected a potential link to China labs. In mid-January, according to a New York Times report, Pottinger asked intelligence agencies like the C.I.A., particularly individuals with expertise on Asia and weapons of mass destruction, to investigate this idea. They came up empty-handed, the Times reported.

Meanwhile, the lab at the center of these speculations had long been sounding the alarm about the risk of the SARS-like coronaviruses they studied to spawn a pandemic.

The head of the lab's bat-coronavirus research, Shi Zhengli, published research on Nov. 30, 2017 in the journal PLOS Pathogens that traced the SARS coronavirus pandemic in 2003 to a single population of horseshoe bats in a remote cave in Yunnan province. The researchers also noted that other SARS-like coronaviruses discovered in that cave used the ACE2 receptor to infect cells and could "replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells," they wrote. (Both SARS and SARS-CoV-2 use the ACE2 receptor as the entry point into cells.)
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-complicated-origins.html

As if "C.I.A., particularly individuals with expertise on Asia and weapons of mass destruction" would be keeping tabs on some lab trying to make a cure for the common cold. You realise the common cold is a coronavirus?

I think expecting honest truth from Chyna is naive. Have been locking up people of faith in "reeducation camps? or is that tin foil stuff too?

ABC is coming around....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-05/church-selling-bleach-claims-cures-coronavirus-australia/12201348

Today: "Donald Trump questions whether disinfectant could be injected to kill coronavirus" is the label for the video that starts without the discussion beforehand.
08:51pm 05/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27015 posts
If you were playing critical thinking fail bingo Nmag you'd be a huge winner. Unfortunately critical thinking fail bingo doesn't exist and you're just really f*****g dumb.
09:59pm 05/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
857 posts
Look at all these erudite people telling everyone what is and isn't appropriate for a press conference. What you really should be doing is looking long and hard at your own lives and what got you to the point where you're that meagre that you need to obsess over 3 seconds worth of commentary in said press conference, literally weeks after it happened.

The only people who base life decisions off Trump press conferences are you idiots deciding to argue about it for WEEKS and Democrat women that need an excuse to kill their husbands.
11:07am 06/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27016 posts
I understand your fragile little ego takes a hit when people make fun of THe Great Leader but don't fret. Soon he'll do or say something even stupider than the inject bleach and magical light thing (how'd you go with those magical UV catheters that treat respiratory illness btw?) and we'll move to that. Chin up bro!
12:27pm 06/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6662 posts
what is and isn't appropriate for a press conference


I would hope we could all agree that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is pretty poor form for press conferences.
08:46pm 06/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17010 posts
dazed: inorite, it's not like Trump did a coffee mug salute or wore a tan suit.

So what do we think about travel exemptions for foreign students in Australia.

Hog says no before general travel opens. Are we really suggesting safely quarantining and clearing up to a quarter of a million foreign students?
10:50pm 06/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4081 posts

I would hope we could all agree that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is pretty poor form for press conferences.


We can't

it's not like Trump did a coffee mug salute or wore a tan suit.


And that's why.

https://i.postimg.cc/L5xXC5YV/EXRR-F-Wk-AIF6-Qn.jpg

The *vast* majority of the media do not even pretend to hold balanced views. Trump is the inevitable result of that. They lost the right to be treated seriously a long time ago.
07:40am 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39981 posts
Hog says no before general travel opens. Are we really suggesting safely quarantining and clearing up to a quarter of a million foreign students?
it feels like this should be much easier to track than most other travel-related things. If we stipulate that when they arrive they have to do mandatory quarantine & get tested on arrival into the country, with severe penalties (i.e., if they're found outside or in groups or having parties or whatever, they are fine and sent straight back home), I could probably get on board with it.

As with most of the recovery methods I think it just comes down to having reliable access to testing. As they'll all be coming into the country through a small number of central points (international airports), we should be able to get near 100% test rate.

edit: I should add, I am generally massively over-cautious on this reopening thing and believe in a very tiny incremental step-based approach with at LEAST 2-3 weeks between steps to measure impact. But this is one area where I think just because it is heavily centralised we might be able to get back to normal relatively quickly.
08:24am 07/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6663 posts
We can't


You can't, or we? Could you explain why you think that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is ok behaviour for official press briefings directed at the public?
Also, editorials aren't news but that guy is an idiot.

I'd only be ok with students coming back early if the Uni/They put up the funds for forced quarantines and testing. Should be a drop in the water for what they charge international students anyway.
11:13am 07/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17011 posts
Trog: I don't think we have the capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to accommodate foreign visitors at the moment or anytime soon. Not to mention the cost of millions of hotel quarantine days and related public health management.

It's a huge amount of work and expense at the moment. I don't think we're there yet ... but if we have capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to our system, and the students pay for the costs of managing their return to Australia I guess it could work.

I just don't have confidence that we can do that, and the cost to the Australian people of f*****g it up is super high. I certainly don't want to pay for it.
12:36pm 07/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4082 posts

I would hope we could all agree
You can't, or we?


We.

Could you explain why you think that Trolling, Bald-faced lies and accusing the press of being the enemy of the people is ok behaviour for official press briefings directed at the public?


Because journalists have been using them as hobby horses for personal aggrandizement for years now. Which is why carefully worded statements which convey virtually no actual information is the norm in those things. They've been a waste of time for over a decade so there may as well be some sport in it. It's not like policy is being determined in the room.

Also, editorials aren't news but that guy is an idiot.


I'm comfortable with the distinction between opinion and news. What concerns me is that someone could think politico is producing news when one of the *founding editors* nails his bias that clearly to the mast and in a simply staggering coincidence politico produce next to no news about Biden's sexual assault allegations.

They have absolutely earned the treatment they receive.

And as for the lies. If it's a choice between lying about sarcasm and lying about letting hezbollah traffic drugs to fund terrorism with impunity to avoid upsetting Iran while trying to build your legacy (perhaps while wearing a tan suit).

Well I've got my choice locked in. Handy how it was released just after the election hey?
12:47pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6665 posts
Journalists pushing agendas is even more reason to have well thought out pieces of information delivered in clear and concise wording. The only reason not to do that is if you don't actually know what's what and are just talking s*** because you're floundering.
01:27pm 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39982 posts
Trog: I don't think we have the capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to accommodate foreign visitors at the moment or anytime soon. Not to mention the cost of millions of hotel quarantine days and related public health management.

It's a huge amount of work and expense at the moment. I don't think we're there yet ... but if we have capacity to add hundreds of thousands of tests to our system, and the students pay for the costs of managing their return to Australia I guess it could work.

I just don't have confidence that we can do that, and the cost to the Australian people of f*****g it up is super high. I certainly don't want to pay for it.
yep for sure I suspect we're not yet at the point where we can do testing at that scale, but we hopefully will be soon. I suspect we're gonna be stuffing things up people's schnozzes for many years to come so I think it's only a matter of time before testing hits that level.

All the hotels are empty so filling them up with quarantined students seems like it shouldn't be that big a deal or that expensive (they can get massive tax breaks or whatever). Possibly even could do voluntary quarantine for people from some safe countries (e.g., China) and just put the ones from third world countries that are falling apart under the strain of the virus (e.g., USA) into mandatory. With proper policing/reviewing/sanity checks and sufficient punishment for violators it should be easier & cheaper than mandatory at hotels?

I guess I am also assuming that by the time this is even remotely possible the case numbers have died off massively in the source countries where the students come from (otherwise I don't see how they are even going to get here), so that there's that much time to get testing up to scale and there's a bit of a lower risk anyway.

Re: paying for it, one way or another you're going to be paying for it - if we don't get the education industry back it is a giant hole in our economy. I am not one of these "restart the economy!!" people (soooo far from it) but if we can find some areas to boot up that can be managed - especially if it's bringing in revenue from overseas!!! - that seems like a good starting point.
02:00pm 07/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4083 posts
Journalists pushing agendas is even more reason to have well thought out pieces of information delivered in clear and concise wording. The only reason not to do that is if you don't actually know what's what and are just talking s*** because you're floundering.


Yeah but they have done that. the 15 days to slow the spread flyer seems pretty concise to me.

If you go to health department's websites including the US CDC the information you need is all right there.

White house press conferences are political theatre and have been for years which is why I tuned them out ages ago.
I only knew this happened because it was pointed out here.
I'll happily concede it's jarring to watch someone treat as nakedly as political theatre as Trump does. But it just doesn't change anything for me.
02:33pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17012 posts
yep for sure I suspect we're not yet at the point where we can do testing at that scale, but we hopefully will be soon. I suspect we're gonna be stuffing things up people's schnozzes for many years to come so I think it's only a matter of time before testing hits that level.


After we get to that level we should consider using latent test capacity to enable foreign nationals to study. Given that in the entire outbreak we've done about a half million tests, ramping up to accommodate hundreds of thousands of fee paying students who will each need multiple tests seems super premature and (to me) a clear case of 'the econermy' competing with public health. We've only recently started testing all those who seek testing and are symptomatic - it would be unwise and short sighted to push that back to symptoms & known contact so that fee paying students can come back.

The problem is that there is a push to get them back for Semester 2 this year. The second half of 2020 should (again imo) be about Australian students returning to campus and the boffins watching what happens at that level, not rushing to load campuses to 100%+ capacity because money.
04:07pm 07/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39983 posts
All good points! I'm not married to the idea. I certainly think being more cautious is the better path. But I do think the centralisation of people coming from overseas offers unique benefits to testing that probably don't exist in most other areas & if we can figure out a way to take advantage of it that'd be rad
05:25pm 07/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41465 posts
06:34pm 07/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
858 posts
My favourite pastime is watching conspiracy numpty fpot's already proven retarded conspiracy theory about Trump and Russia become even more retarded by watching Lt Gen Flynn walk free with charges dropped because further investigation would have revealed even worse utter corruption and incompetence in the DOJ and the FBI than is already obvious.

Grab the tinfoil hat fpot. Russia must have paid off the DOJ to drop the case.
12:11pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24664 posts
Because journalists have been using them as hobby horses for personal aggrandizement for years now. Which is why carefully worded statements which convey virtually no actual information is the norm in those things. They've been a waste of time for over a decade so there may as well be some sport in it. It's not like policy is being determined in the room.


100%. Journalism is a lame 24/7 gotcha competition by "journalists" who don't even attempt to hide their bias. Why would a politician provide sincere, detailed, occasionally flawed or morally ambiguous information? It would be immediately weaponised against them. Journalists do not subject themselves to the same standards.

Trump flipped this convention which frustrates the s*** out of lamestream. He makes ridiculous intentionally exaggerated claims and is unapologetic, pandering to his base. It like politics meets WWF. I love seeing pundits go absolutely bonkers that he wont tap dance to their tune.

PLAYGROUNDS WILL OPEN HOW GOOD IS AUSTRALIA?
01:07pm 08/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39984 posts
Trump flipped this convention which frustrates the s*** out of lamestream. He makes ridiculous intentionally exaggerated claims and is unapologetic, pandering to his base. It like politics meets WWF. I love seeing pundits go absolutely bonkers that he wont tap dance to their tune.
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.
01:55pm 08/05/20 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5197 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.


I'd be happy to laugh as I look back over his term in office while watching his funeral because karma crept up on him and bit him hard. F*** that orange, tiny hand's lying POS

That is all.
03:05pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24665 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time. Why would that bring you pleasure? Why would someone else's misery and frustration - at something that you yourself practically admit is lying even if you can't bring yourself to say the literal words - make you happy? Genuine question.


If journalists are not interested in creating a flow of sincere legitimate information why should the politicians indulge them?

Besides he can communicate directly on the issues that matter by offiicial press release. Compare the media to Australia. US are viciously partisan. They are a joke and should be treated like one. Facts and opinion have become blended. Feels bad to be redundant.
03:13pm 08/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4084 posts
It is weird that you would take pleasure in the fact that some people get frustrated when an influential politician who has a big impact on the fate of lives of millions (at least) just gets up and lies all the time.


Perhaps the most succinct answer to that question is that the same people who get bent out of shape about lying about stupid s*** like the presence of genuine sarcasm and wax lyrical about "relationships with the truth" flatly ignore earth shatteringly big lies when they come from the right team.

For example, no-one on this forum has mentioned
Afghanistan Papers which wapo quietly released during the impeachment

Ironically they damage GW Bush who is currently being rehabilitated from white supremacist nazi to "the reasonable Republican of yesteryear".

But more importantly prove Obama lied for 8 straight years about Afghanistan. Again possibly while wearing a tan suit and/or saluting while holding coffee, which is the real scandal.

I assume infi, like myself, enjoys the *profound* irony of being so concerned about irrelevant lies and being apparently a ok with really really big ones.

But even little ones get glossed over. Biden tells a story about getting arrested trying to visit Mandela in prison in South Africa. To be clear I don't really care, except that it is really weird thing to lie about. But it's a straight Trump style brag and I don't see the meltdown.
03:38pm 08/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6286 posts
Why should a president be held accountable? Thats all fluff for liberal democracies.
The media is asking the right questions, Infi doesn't like those questions so its Trump good, Media baaad.
03:55pm 08/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24666 posts
And sure, I think sometimes Trump takes it too far. People forget this guy is one dimensional - what you see is what you get. He was exactly like this before he came to office and like a hopeful fiance, they expect him to change once married?

But he is definitely the media's kryptonite. The MSM want to stop broadcasting his press conferences but they rate high and they need the ad revenue. HAHAHAHA
04:51pm 08/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27017 posts
My favourite pastime is watching conspiracy numpty fpot's already proven retarded conspiracy theory about Trump and Russia become even more retarded by watching Lt Gen Flynn walk free with charges dropped because further investigation would have revealed even worse utter corruption and incompetence in the DOJ and the FBI than is already obvious.
Yes yes Barr has dropped the charges because it would make the people he and the team desperately want to look bad, look bad. You've really thought this one through. It's no coincidence that the person who -

a) assisted a foreign superpower attack their own country because
b) the attack was to interfere with the election in an effort to get that person elected and
c) committed crimes covering up the help he gave

is now responsible for thousands of deaths in what might be the most blunderous and lethal example of mismanagement by a modern government.

edit: once upon a time I'd be astonished that a person would use an example of a government acting openly corrupt in way that before 2016 would seem utterly impossible as an attack against a person who accuses this government of being openly corrupt but here we are.
06:43pm 08/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4085 posts
Yes yes Barr has dropped the charges because it would make the people he and the team desperately want to look bad, look bad. You've really thought this one through. It's no coincidence that the person who -

a) assisted a foreign superpower attack their own country because
b) the attack was to interfere with the election in an effort to get that person elected and
c) committed crimes covering up the help he gave


Imagine how deeply in conspiracy juice you'd have to be stewing to think those words have even the slightest basis.in reality.

But he is definitely the media's kryptonite. The MSM want to stop broadcasting his press conferences but they rate high and they need the ad revenue. HAHAHAHA


Reckon that's an accident or is Trump a moron?
07:01pm 08/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1299 posts
He is clearly a moron. If he was educated in one of Australia's public schools he would be far more intelligent. If he was clever he would hand out more free stuff, believe in a world without borders, play to the media and try to do as little as possible like the last president. Only Hillary could have saved them. She's an honest woman. What they really need is a strong charismatic leader like Bernie. But, now it's gone to s***. If Biden can recover from his stroke, appoint Hillary as vice, and then Biden accidentally falls down some stairs to his death, Hillary can bring her unquestionable integrity to the presidential role and save the nation that is basically a brainwashed flag waving obese war machine.
11:52am 09/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24667 posts
lol nmag what the Dems need is another Neo-Con

for fpot - James Clapper, Obama's Head of National Intelligence:

https://i.imgur.com/t7TR1ma.png
12:57pm 09/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39985 posts
Not really sure how to parse your first response as an answer to my question.
And sure, I think sometimes Trump takes it too far. People forget this guy is one dimensional - what you see is what you get. He was exactly like this before he came to office and like a hopeful fiance, they expect him to change once married?
You admit he's a one dimensional caricature. You (now) cheerfully admit he lies like breathing. You seem to agree expecting him to change and actually take charge in a useful way once in office has always been and continues to be a silly notion.

Yet somehow, there are those that take pleasure when people are discomfited by these (objectively?) bad things. They think it's funny and they "love" it when the media report on it, getting some weird pleasure about being able to laugh and point, saying "teehee TDS" like its all some big joke. I guess we could call it schadenfreude if we wanted to make it sound classy, but it just feels like the political equivalent of laughing when an old person slips in the shower and breaks their hip. e.g., what a self-own!

It's not like these personality traits have combined to give him super powers, like some x-ray vision analogue that allows him to see through the complexities and corruption of modern politics so he can cut straight to the heart of matters, to make plays that prove over time to have been powered by cunning insight that noone else was able to emulate, because they lack his particular combination of skills. I mean I can see how people /thought/ maybe that's what was going to happen, and that maybe, just MAYBE it would be worth putting up with such a despicable human being if he could Get Stuff Done (even I thought maybe he would surprise us at one point; maybe it /would/ be good having someone that wasn't a career politician). But it's increasingly obvious to everyone (not just typical detractors) that he's just been blundering along doing things at random, except in cases where there was an obvious personal benefit to him, his family, or his immediate circle of lacklustre cronies.

So surely there's some point where you go "huh, maybe it's actually /not/ funny? That the media is simply not equipped to deal with this kind of person as President? Maybe what was good for a bit of a larf at the start is wearing a bit thin now he's presiding on an ever-growing mountain of human skulls? Maybe getting pleasure from seeing him 'own the libs' through his extremely complicated and well-thought-out long-term strategy of lying, nepotism, cronyism, self-enrichment, golf and impeachables is a "bad touch" kind of pleasure? Maybe seeing people go into paroxysms when the media straight up just blindly broadcast, with no intervention, his actual words in a way that highlights his genuine stupidity, has just stopped being funny and started being a little sad? Maybe, in fact, finding comedy in the misery of others under any circumstances is part of the problem?"

I know, I know, he'd have to raise taxes. But my question remains, why do you think you and the many others out there take so much pleasure in other people getting upset by Trump's objectively bad behaviour?

On the journalism side:

I don't know what we can do about the fundamental issues of poor journalism. I agree the media has been failing all of us, but I don't think it's generally the fault of the vast majority of individual journalists - it is a systemic problem as their business model twists and turns under the pressure of the digital information age, which has crushed old models and old money and left everyone scrabbling for the pieces.

I feel some very slight random culpability here because for a long long time I was very happily part of the machine that pushed online ads as the thing that kept websites free; I saw this as a way to provide good content without having to charge for it, and thus make it more available. But it has been perverted by the tyranny of the click; unabashed, shameless avarice from those that profit from publishing lies that too many desperately want to believe.

As a starting point: install ad blockers (the irony of me saying this is not lost on me). Use browsers that are privacy-focused (Firefox or Brave are the two big options, but get off Chrome). Pay for good journalism; find the news that /matters/ (e.g., what politicians /do/ vs what they /say/) and be informed by it. Don't indulge opinion writers, unless they challenge your existing opinions.

(And not to take preachy-ness to truly dizzying heights, but I would say it would also be nice if media consumers trained themselves out of taking pleasure in the misery or sadness of others and avoided journalists who make their money by pandering like that.)
01:57pm 09/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24668 posts
Yet somehow, there are those that take pleasure when people are discomfited by these (objectively?) bad things. They think it's funny and they "love" it when the media report on it, getting some weird pleasure about being able to laugh and point, saying "teehee TDS" like its all some big joke. I guess we could call it schadenfreude if we wanted to make it sound classy, but it just feels like the political equivalent of laughing when an old person slips in the shower and breaks their hip. e.g., what a self-own!


Because when you scratch beneath the superficial obsession with delivery and style, the actual policy decisions his administration are making are not that bad, record low black and hispanic unemployment, tarrifs on China, new free trade agreements with Canada and Mexico, reduced illegal border crossings, building the wall, very clear positions with NATO and WHO and all these other bloated NGOs, s*** I'm not going to list them all, the youtuber Fleccas does a good job of that.

All this media mishmash is just icing. Seeing very low IQ types wind themselves up into a frenzy because Trump will not play their games is pretty satisfying. Journos loitering around for a 15 second sound bite or unguarded hot mike moment devolves politics into the stupid place it has arrived. I have never liked it in any political arena.

So surely there's some point where you go "huh, maybe it's actually /not/ funny? That the media is simply not equipped to deal with this kind of person as President?


It is hilariously funny because none of the media stuff matters. The mainstream media is rating lower than ever.

why do you think you and the many others out there take so much pleasure in other people getting upset by Trump's objectively bad behaviour?


I guess the US situation is different to Australia. In Australia the parliament takes the temperature of the PM every day and like so many of our PMs have found, they can removed at the drop of a hat. In the US, its 4 years or impeachment. So I am concerned with the total outcome an d I don't really think personal ethics or morality is that relevant. In judging the President the fundamental question is: Is the US in a better place than before Trump came to power and in relation to Federal outcomes I would definitely say Yes.

As a keen politics observer, I lost interest in judging the morality of politicians, because the process by which laws and political decisions are made is very messy. That's why politicians are generally extremeely narcissistic tough-than-teflon characters.

How could a major political party seriously think their best Presidential candidate is a geriatric who sniffs little girls' hair? I dunno but that's the way it works....
02:21pm 09/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27018 posts
The reason infi and co like trump so much is because they're excited by the fact that someone as callous, incompetent and unfit to lead as them is enjoying such success and popularity. It helps feed the only part of them actually alive - the part that fools them into thinking they aren't complete and utter scum. They're also excited by the fact that someone who is willing and able to inflict cruelty on subhuman filth is in power and able to get away with anything.

That's why politics in the US is doomed. How is someone who promises to abide by the rules and right the ship able to compete with that? This is a really special moment for trump supporters. For years they've had to sit in the corner and be quiet while society progressed without them. Now's the chance for history to repeat itself for the umpteenth time and for some satisfying cruelty to be inflicted on those ingrates holding us back. Sweet revenge! They gotta have it.

No amount of reasoning or explaining will make any difference. No matter how much thought or care you put into it you'll just be handed back a giant pile of s*** like infi typed above. You could reason with his ilk for a million years and you'd never get through. When people say 'well do you think marginalising them and putting them in a corner is a smart idea' I think to myself, yes, it is. They aren't like your typical extremist, borne from years of oppression and inhumane wartorn survival (not an excuse). They're spoiled little brats sitting in daddy's office scared that if society progresses too far their ride won't be quite so easy. The only option is to return them where they came from. The irrelevant fringes of society they festered in before the Great Leader was 'elected'. Send them back I say.
04:38pm 09/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4086 posts
The reason infi and co like trump so much is because they're excited by the fact that someone as callous, incompetent and unfit to lead as them is enjoying such success and popularity. It helps feed the only part of them actually alive - the part that fools them into thinking they aren't complete and utter scum. They're also excited by the fact that someone who is willing and able to inflict cruelty on subhuman filth is in power and able to get away with anything.


The fever dream that allows fpot to think he is better than anyone at all.

When in reality he is a sad stupid middle-aged gold coast bouncer and these meltdowns just never get old.

The palpable jealousy of infi is just so delicious. You reckon he has a photo of you infi that he rage wanks to?
No amount of reasoning or explaining will make any difference.


You lack the equipment to "reason" sweet cheeks.

Pay for good journalism; find the news that /matters/ (e.g., what politicians /do/ vs what they /say/) and be informed by it.


And oh my god the f*****g irony of posting that after *100s* of posts of oh my god Trump said what?
05:01pm 09/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6287 posts
Heheh, well said Fpot. And what you've said is supported by research.

I've posted it before but here it is again for good measure.

https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/750/html

Seeing very low IQ types


This one is a goodun.
05:41pm 09/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27019 posts
'very low IQ types' is direct from the troll farm.

Something interesting I stumbled upon in troll farm twitter the other week. A twitter user by the name of @tellyoursonthis. His profile pic is some weird Van Gogh looking thing. Reading it I was thinking how stuff like that must be like heroin for incel chuds. Just an absolute loathing for woman smart enough not to f*** them (which is 99.99%) interspersed with weird projection about 'very low IQ types'. Read it for a laugh if you're bored.
05:52pm 09/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4087 posts
Heheh, well said Fpot. And what you've said is supported by research.

I've posted it before but here it is again for good measure.


"Research".
07:05pm 09/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
859 posts
fpot can add the concept of holdovers to the burgeoning list of things his peanut brain can't understand
08:44pm 09/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39986 posts
Because when you scratch beneath the superficial obsession with delivery and style, the actual policy decisions his administration are making are not that bad
This is a bold position to start with given the current state of affairs in the USA. His policy decision was to get up in front of the nation and dismiss the risk of pandemic. Not even once, but a bunch of times, the entire time while it was spreading.

i.e., you are basically praising a toddler for putting his toys away while he is dropping a steaming hot turd on the kitchen table. (And that's before we even get into the details of the policy decisions. Picking one at random, the China tariffs, the economic jury still seems wayyy out on that in terms of actual benefits across the economy. It might retroactively turn out to be a stroke of genius, now that there are tens of millions of unemployed Americans, if the federal government decides to sponsor a Manhattan Project-esque jobs programme!)
All this media mishmash is just icing.
It is hilariously funny because none of the media stuff matters.
Why is that funny? That is a tragedy. If citizens can't be informed by the media, and can't make informed decisions about how to vote, then democracy is, and I use this word quite seriously, f***ed, because at that point we're just throwing s*** at the wall.

Where do you expect citizens to get this information from? Trump's tweets?! I just can't fathom what you find funny in all this. "It's funny because it's systemically broken and nothing anyone does matters any more" doesn't scan to me.

I guess trying to get people to explain their sense of humour is just a lost cause at the best of times.
The mainstream media is rating lower than ever.
It's odd you think this doesn't matter when it certainly matters to one person, who can't help but bring how great and record-setting the ratings are, as long as he's the subject.
Is the US in a better place than before Trump came to power and in relation to Federal outcomes I would definitely say Yes.
"Federal outcomes" is an obvious landmine here but trying to think of what outcomes there are that still seem worth bragging about given the current state of affairs. Noone knows what is going to happen to the US now. It is balanced on a knife edge. I think about (amongst other things) the billions that are going to be pissed away by both parties in the US in the next few months, buying ad spots and running their campaigns, the whole time people are queuing up in food lines and wondering what is going to happen.
As a keen politics observer, I lost interest in judging the morality of politicians, because the process by which laws and political decisions are made is very messy. That's why politicians are generally extremeely narcissistic tough-than-teflon characters.
Well the narcissistic part is right. Hard to think of a more fragile ego than the current president, who can barely go hours without b****ing about someone on Twitter that he feels he's been slighted by. (Not that it matters but... is teflon tough? I thought teflon as used to describe politicians was limited to their slickness.) It feels very optimistic to think that all policy making and governing can be done in a way that is detached from morality.

But I take your point! Maybe it would be great if we could ignore their morality and judge them just based on the outcomes of their decisions. The ends justify the means, right?! That is probably a good position for Trump to be angling, like there's still some magic light at the end of the tunnel that is going to make this disastrous situation worth it and everything is going to be Just Fine.

(Of course if you're like me and think that morality is linked to policy and thus results, you'd look at the series of decisions that got them to the point they're in now, and look at them in the context of their morality (e.g., craven disassembly on purely ideological grounds of the exact types of public institutions that would have been helpful in preventing and managing such a crisis, massive ego dismissive of risks outside of area of expertise, complete and total disregard for domain expertise, thinking nepotism is a suitable alternative to putting experts in charge etc etc), and think ".... ugh".)
10:01am 10/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39987 posts
Here is a morality test that I think about all the time with Trump:

Let's say leading up to the next election in November he is sowing the seeds of doubt the entire time about it being a fair election process.

Let's say in some US state which trends Republican, there is a group of people in close contact (not a lot, like less than 100 but more than 20) with a lot of guns that are big Trump fans, for whatever reason. They are big 2A people, for the purposes of overthrowing a corrupt government, something which has been instilled in them since birth. They consume a lot of survivalist media and have a bias to believe conspiracy theories they read on Facebook.

Let's say he loses the election.

What are the chances he will concede defeat gracefully? Do you think there is anything in his character that would enable him to congratulate Biden (assuming Biden survives til then, which I think is a coin toss) on a well-earned victory and wish him luck for his term during such a challenging time, yadayadayada? Are they the kind of tweeters you'd expect to see from him? Are those words you can imagine coming out of his mouth in a concession speech?

So just for this hypothetical, let's say there's an infinitesimal chance that he takes the loss less than gracefully. He tweets furiously throughout the night, using words like "rigged" and "conspiracy" and "hoax".

Let's say that, apropos of nothing, this group of patriots decide that their republic has fallen thanks to this liberal conspiracy, or whatever. They lock and load and take the statehouse to try to declare themselves independent of this new sham government. They try to do it without injury but they accidentally shoot and kill a civilian. Local & federal police respond, the building is surrounded. More armed supporters turn up to protest in the streets and in other places.

What is Trump's next play at this point? What impact do you think his morals might have on the state of affairs then? I mean you can handwave it away and go "well in this ludicrously unlikely scenario based on nothing that resembles reality whatsoever who cares what his morals are because they do not necessarily inform federal government policy at this point".

But to me it sorta feels like maybe we should care about the morals of people because they're probably a useful predictor in how they're going to act in different circumstances.

To me, the most likely play from Trump at this point is he kinda gets his wish about being a wartime president, because he could then incite a small-scale civil war. Either intentionally and maliciously, by saying these people are patriots and they're doing the right thing by fighting back against a malicious corrupt government that has unjustly rigged the election, or (more likely) through incompetence and buffoonery, by saying saying there are very fine people on both sides, maybe they have a point, who knows what the truth is, people should do what they think is right in the circumstances.

Any outcome where he does not immediately concede and say these people were wrong to do that and he personally guarantees the election was fair would be lighting a fire under it.

Because I cannot, under almost any scenario, imagine him using his platform to tell people to calm down and stop and that they're all Americans and should stick together.
11:38am 10/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24669 posts
Why is that funny? That is a tragedy.


It's funny because the previously revered 4th estate is destroying itself through greed and thirst for clicks - it's funny because they created Trump, and now they complain about it.

Where do you expect citizens to get this information from?


Find a source you can trust. Do your own research.

It's odd you think this doesn't matter when it certainly matters to one person, who can't help but bring how great and record-setting the ratings are, as long as he's the subject.


The ratings to Trump are an indication of how reliant the media are on him. He's reveling in the exact predicament the media have created for themselves.

Because I cannot, under almost any scenario, imagine him using his platform to tell people to calm down and stop and that they're all Americans and should stick together.


He would disavow such activity just as he did with Charlottesville. I think you are wargaming scenarios in your head out of wishfulness maybe?


But to me it sorta feels like maybe we should care about the morals of people because they're probably a useful predictor in how they're going to act in different circumstances.


Name one politician whose morals you believe are noteworthy.
01:26pm 10/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27020 posts
Find a source you can trust. Do your own research.
Such as convicted liar, George Papadopoulos.
02:10pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4088 posts
Let's say leading up to the next election in November he is sowing the seeds of doubt the entire time about it being a fair election process.



Oh suddenly questioning the legitimacy of elections is a huge taboo.

As though the Russian hoax wasn't exactly that on every major news station for 4 straight years.

The golden rule of these conversations is "it's different when we do it".
04:25pm 10/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6288 posts
Remember the good ole days when a President wasn't constantly whining about his coverage in the press, and answered questions without having a dummy spit and calling the reporter fake news if he didnt like the question?
Oh but they concede sometimes he goes alittle far when dealing with the media.

And with almost 80,000 American deaths, thats the result of a reasonable response, apparently. Low IQ types, indeed.
05:20pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4089 posts
And with almost 80,000 American deaths, thats the result of a reasonable response, apparently. Low IQ types, indeed.


By comparison to the rest of the G8 US performance continues to be reasonable vash.

They are tracking within 2% of Germany for deaths per cases.

They aren't the best response. But they are a long way from the worst. So "reasonable" is a perfectly valid description.
06:10pm 10/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39988 posts
It's funny because the previously revered 4th estate is destroying itself through greed and thirst for clicks - it's funny because they created Trump, and now they complain about it.
Well, I guess one person's comedy is just another person's tragedy.
He would disavow such activity just as he did with Charlottesville.
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments.
Name one politician whose morals you believe are noteworthy.
An interesting question! I guess I mostly approach it from the other way, by ruling out the ones that are clearly untrustworthy (e.g., because of repeated violations of the public trust, or just obvious moral black holes like those ones that are big religious family first types then get busted in the men's room making out with other dudes) and hoping the ones that are not just so blatantly stupid enough to betray their crooked natures might be OK. I'm an increasing believer in winning by not losing.

Trying to think of clearly good moral plays by politicians is tougher. John McCain shutting down that moron in a town hall who insisted Obama was a Muslim. There was another Republican governor I remember who was inspiring a while back but I need to think about what it was they did to look up who it was. Scott Ludlam's grace in standing down when he found out he was ineligible for office (mostly by comparison with the others that made it such a pain in the ass). Have to think about it some more.
06:26pm 10/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4090 posts
Well, I guess one person's comedy is just another person's tragedy.
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments.


Well seeing as that's not what happened the self destruction of the press is clearly not that bigger tragedy to you.

If it was you'd be willing to say what actually happened.
07:17am 11/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
860 posts
Oh yeh he really jumped on that and disavowed it so quickly, thoroughly and clearly that 3 years later the "there are good people on both sides" comment has simply faded from memory and not become an everlasting gobstopper in the wide selection of stupid comments..


Do you know how many were there peacefully protesting a statue removal vs. there to incite violence via Antifa/white nationalists? I 100% guarantee you don't.
09:42am 11/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39989 posts
I reckon the Australian government should work with the reserve bank to use our overinflated housing market and our banks as a cushion for economic recovery - who is with me? I can't figure out how it would work though but I feel like there has to be a way, especially if we can figure out a way to trick all overseas holders into panic selling properties really cheap, then we can buy them, and then we can sell them back to them in a couple years. Come on brain trust!
10:49am 11/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1300 posts
Like a nationalistic policy to pass legislation for Australian government to wait till prices at an estimated low, and then purchase all property owned by non Australians and then trickle it into the current market, enough to cover costs. but not so much to disrupt prices too much?

Trog can't even read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.

Doubt that's a Greens policy. Seems more like something the red haired fish n chip shop lady would push for.
04:18pm 11/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24670 posts
Such as convicted liar, George Papadopoulos.


Like the entire Obama intelligence community?


https://i.imgur.com/aUAH6cJ.png

I was wondering why #Obamagate was trending today...

I reckon the Australian government should work with the reserve bank to use our overinflated housing market and our banks as a cushion for economic recovery - who is with me? I can't figure out how it would work though but I feel like there has to be a way, especially if we can figure out a way to trick all overseas holders into panic selling properties really cheap, then we can buy them, and then we can sell them back to them in a couple years. Come on brain trust!


A tax on foreign owners? It's already been done.
08:44pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27021 posts
I was wondering why #Obamagate was trending today...
Probably something to do with the 60 or so frenzied QAnon conspiracy tweets trump made today. And keep posting those Fox News screengrabs. Just a few more and you'll completely nullify the Special Counsel report that clearly demonstrates -

a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.
08:53pm 11/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24671 posts
I think you are about to get a rude surprise....
09:00pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27022 posts
BREAKING - JUDICIAL WATCH HAS PROOF OF OBAMA SPY CONSPIRACY ARREST WARRANTS IMMINENT etc etc? Because yeah there's a new one of those every week.
09:09pm 11/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6289 posts
Anything to distract from the disaster that is continuing to unfold. Obama must've hurt their feelings.
10:30pm 11/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27023 posts
Anything to distract from the disaster that is continuing to unfold.
Soon there will be a bombshell which will be ridiculed by all serious people but pushed hard by troll farm twitter. We're in a scenario where this only makes it more credible to the chuds because they believe there is a conspiracy between media outlets and the deep state to bring down trump because he's upsetting the natural order of things and they see him as a threat. Like this is literally what they believe. They have to believe it because if they didn't they'd all of a sudden realise a few nasty truths about themselves as reality fills the vacuum left by the departure of their cosy little fantasy world.

edit: and as I was typing that, trump was having his little tanty in the Rose Garden because questions are a little too hard for him today :(
07:21am 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4091 posts
Just a few more and you'll completely nullify the Special Counsel report that clearly demonstrates -

a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.


It's funny that the report can say the exact opposite of that and somehow fpot thinks he is like super smart.

If you keep repeating it it must be true. Just so desperate to believe Facebook posts are the only reason his team lost.
10:38am 12/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6290 posts
a) trump assisted a foreign superpower in an attack against the USA
b) the attack was to install trump as president
c) trump committed crimes covering up the assistance he gave to the attack.


Its becoming more clear these are true, with Flynn being let off now.

The crying about Obama probably has something to do with him saying this

"There is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free," he said. "That's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic - not just institutional norms - but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk."


Also true. This administration just doesn't give a single s*** about rule of law, nor does the Republican party & its base.

Now lets await a flurry of further Obama crying from the folks here.
01:38pm 12/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39991 posts
A tax on foreign owners? It's already been done.
Less a tax and more of a surreptitious "let's try to make overseas investors the losers but not in such an obvious way that we're scamming them so they come back later and dump their money back here afterwards", kind of thing. Sadly I don't think there are enough of them to be a big enough buffer, so it might just have to fall on local property hoarders and banks. Banks & their shareholders might have to take one for the team for a few years.
02:06pm 12/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1301 posts
I don't think there are enough of them to be a big enough buffer


oh really?

But Trog can't read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.
06:19pm 12/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27024 posts
Maybe if you cry some more he'll notice you.
08:01pm 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4092 posts
.
Its becoming more clear these are true, with Flynn being let off now.


No it isn't.
"There is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free," he said. "That's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic - not just institutional norms - but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk."


Well there was that time Obama pardoned a general for Lying to the FBI he some how forgot about. Possibly while wearing a tan suit.

So except for that time he personally let someone of scot-free, no one has ever gotten off scot-free
08:14pm 12/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6291 posts
Now lets await a flurry of further Obama crying from the folks here.


Called it.

But Trog can't read my comments with "EchoChamberScipt3.2" running.


Try turning off your own echo chamber script. Might end up learning a thing or two.
08:45pm 12/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4093 posts
Called it.


Well if you didn't have double standards you wouldn't have any so it's not surprising you're ok with Obama doing exactly what he just said attacks a basic understanding of rule of law.

Of course that's generous. You don't know what rule of law means.
10:06pm 12/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39993 posts

OK I thought I had covered all the bases with the possible outcomes of Virgin but here is one I did not see coming at all: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-queensland-government-stake-virgin-airlines/12244152

On the surface this sounds like a f*****' stupid idea and should be thrown in the bin.

BUT, if they do it as part of a restructuring (i.e., in a way that means all the existing shareholders get totally boned and they can pick it up for bargain basement prices), I can see how it could be pretty interesting for QLD to have their own airline that has a lot of local routes + some international ones. They could subsidise routes into QLD vs the rest of the country, which means more tourism, which means more revenue.

I have no idea what the numbers would look like but it would be an interesting modeling exercise (how much can we discount flights & how much could we make out of it). Except one of their big international destinations is the USA and we prolly won't be accepting people from that virus-soaked hellhole for a while.


09:10am 14/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41467 posts
id rather qld government buy virgin than some overseas entity.
09:26am 14/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
861 posts
Oh man, resident Mensa scholars Vash and fpot must be loving this Flynn drama. That's probably why there's dead silence
01:10pm 14/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27025 posts
What? How in amongst the smouldering ruin of the US Justice system there's still a part that functions, and how that small part may actually help when the President of the United States of America wants to let one of his mates get away with crimes? Yeah a little false hope has been kindled by that but it won't last long because even if he can't get the charges dropped he'll just use the brute force method and pardon him.
01:14pm 14/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24672 posts
On the surface this sounds like a f*****' stupid idea and should be thrown in the bin.


throwing $200m into a black hole. uber dumb.
08:40pm 14/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39996 posts
throwing $200m into a black hole. uber dumb.
I want to see their spreadsheets. It's not only the bottom line of the corporation that matters for them but how much other economic activity they can generate by manipulating the travel network.

So it's more complicated (in fact I would say it's probably /so/ complicated it's literally impossible to model with any degree of accuracy, which to me is the biggest reason to not do it). (I think a few state-owned airlines follow this model although I can't remember which ones off top of head - Emirates do something, but they're in a different position because of their location & thus can be a good hub).

The competitive argument against Qantas I don't think is very interesting any more (I mentioned to some mates yesterday that the main reason I don't want this to happen is I don't want to have to read op-ends from Alan Joyce and Liberal party members wailing and gnashing their teeth in The Australian, until the end of time, which seems like a likely outcome). Airline travel is simply anti-competitive by its nature; it has a thin veneer of competition on some routes but generally each airline operates like a monopoly because they know people who need to get from A to B within a certain timeframe have no choice.

As usual, I would rather see the state plunge all that money into a HSR project. Let some dopey private equity firm pick up Virgin and scrape the bones clean.
08:44am 15/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4094 posts
it has a thin veneer of competition on some routes but generally each airline operates like a monopoly because they know people who need to get from A to B within a certain timeframe have no choice.


You might even say their services are more competitive than other modes of transport o_0.
06:46pm 15/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27029 posts
It would really suck if the person who you'd implemented a disinformation campaign against that faltered in mere days put the finishing touches on it simply by stating the obvious on national television.
03:11pm 17/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40000 posts

Mostly for Hogfather (if he dares come back) but this is what HK are doing with visitors at the moment: https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434 - basically they are testing everyone, putting them in a room for eight hours to wait for the test to come back, before they can leave the quarantine zone. Not sure how many people they are be processing now while so much travel is shut down. Lots of my friends & colleagues in HK are pretty keen for the travel restrictions to end so they can visit family/go home/go on holidays & I think would cheerfully sign up for that process if it meant they could go out & come back in.


04:22pm 17/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17014 posts
I worry about the efficacy of quick testing, given that (I have been told) the protocol at the moment is that multiple PCR tests are required for diagnosis.

Hong Kong being a major travel node in the region has a strong motivation to get international travel moving, much as Australia does for the education sector.

My personal bias is also very strong though - I'm an immunocompromised person who doesn't rely on a job to get by. Australia is essentially 'clean'. From my personal perspective the borders should remain closed until a vaccine is developed and it's 18 month efficacy and safety is demonstrated.

This may or may not be practical ;)
08:49pm 17/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40001 posts
I worry about the efficacy of quick testing, given that (I have been told) the protocol at the moment is that multiple PCR tests are required for diagnosis.
Yep, I think the false negative rate is something upwards of 30%. I think it comes down to a statistics game though; if you acknowledge in your models there are going to be some false negatives you can factor that in to your intake rate and adjust accordingly.
My personal bias is also very strong though - I'm an immunocompromised person who doesn't rely on a job to get by. Australia is essentially 'clean'. From my personal perspective the borders should remain closed until a vaccine is developed and it's 18 month efficacy and safety is demonstrated.
Yep fair enough perspective. I have respiratory issues (including asthma) and have apparently been boring the s*** out of my friends and family by occasionally mentioning things like "hey maybe this social distancing thing is a good idea" because I selfishly would like to stay alive.
08:31am 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24673 posts
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m. It gives people a false sense of security. Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
01:52pm 18/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41468 posts
but it works if people arent sneezing?
02:01pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27030 posts
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m.
*slow clap*
02:03pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24674 posts
but it works if people arent sneezing?


so does standing 30cm away, or just not touching others, then. i.e. what we have always done. the 1.5m is stated as a precaution against human particle expulsion which is not effective.

and in the meantime it is causing damage to businesses.
02:10pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27031 posts
the 1.5m is stated as a precaution against human particle expulsion which is not effective.
Source?
02:16pm 18/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6667 posts
I think the Global Pandemic might have a small role to play in the whole 'damage to business' situation.
Also, If you sneeze into your elbow and then accidentally bump into someone that's just 300mm away and easily in 'accidental bumping' distance, you have an increased chance of catching the virus.

Luckily though, it's 1500mm; Safely outside the range of accidental bumping distance. Safety for everyone!
02:17pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24675 posts

Source?
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/coronavirus-covid-sneeze-fluid-dynamics-in-photos/

There are oodles of medical sources... if you read.

The Queensland Chief Medical Officer admitted shutting schools not because it would slow the virus but to make a graphic point.
02:23pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27032 posts
Okay fair enough I wasn't very clear. I agree, with sneezing 1.5m distancing won't be effective. The 1.5m social distancing rules are mainly to cover the expulsion of particles during normal breathing, and it's more or less unanimous that it's an effective strategy. Do you disagree with that?
02:33pm 18/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40002 posts
1:
Social distancing is a con job. A sneeze travels up to 8m. It gives people a false sense of security. Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
2 (from a few days ago):
I have 3 ply civilian and KN95 masks for sale. Plastic shields if you are dealing with people expelling blood, and other droplets. Hand sanitiser arriving next week.


hmmmmmmmm

also:

social distancing, wearing a mask, along with washing your hands, not licking sick people's eyeballs, getting a flu shot, etc are part of a "defense in depth" strategy; you can't just cherry pick ONE of these things, do it, and think you are now covered so you can ignore everything else. the idea is to minimise your chances of getting sick AND minimising the chances of YOU making OTHER PEOPLE sick in case you are ALREADY sick and asymptomatic.

wearing a mask is a good idea because it helps keep other people safe if you are sick. but it's a better idea if you're already social distancing

so the only people I've heard say social distancing is a con job is either trying to sell me a mask or restart the economy, or both
04:06pm 18/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24676 posts
Okay fair enough I wasn't very clear. I agree, with sneezing 1.5m distancing won't be effective. The 1.5m social distancing rules are mainly to cover the expulsion of particles during normal breathing, and it's more or less unanimous that it's an effective strategy. Do you disagree with that?


The problem with that proposition is that during normal breathing, particle expulsion is virtually non-existant. The other problematic contact is physical contact.

Most infection would be eliminated by normal levels of personal hygiene well-executed with some process refinements (like hand sanitiser), eliminating direct physical contact and removal of sick+symptomatic people from public (as the particle spray is the super spreader).

No need to limit gyms, cafes, retail shops to 10 people, or restrict general movement....IMO

Planes are extremely problematic as there is no way to isolate someone who is symptomatic and it provides prolonged exposure.

hmmmmmmmm


Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.

you can't just cherry pick ONE of these things


One element of the strategy is destroying large elements of the economy for no benefit.
05:53pm 18/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27033 posts
The problem with that proposition is that during normal breathing, particle expulsion is virtually non-existant. The other problematic contact is physical contact.
This is a pretty special sentence. What is it with you people? You know viruses are very small, and the mist that forms on glass from the virtually non-existent droplets in your breath could contain thousands if not millions of viruses if you were infected right? And that if a person got too close, let's say within about 1.5m , that person could become infected?
06:16pm 18/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40003 posts
Either don't go out or wear barrier protection.
people /have/ to go out. there's a whole category of some people who have to go out ('essential workers'), but even regular people like me have to go out sometimes to buy food. (I have been out three times since mid-March to interface with other humans to buy supplies.)

if you have to go out, you practice social [although I see health.gov.au now calls it "physical"] distancing to reduce your risk as much as possible, along with other things to help reduce spread, like wearing a mask to avoid making other people sick in case you are asymptomatic

it is false dichotomy to pretend that the two options are "go out" or "wear barrier protection"

One element of the strategy is destroying large elements of the economy for no benefit.
"no benefit"... ummm. there's a clear benefit, to the people that don't die. what you are saying is that you don't think, or you have evidence, that the number of lives saved outweighs the value lost to the economy?

"destroying large elements of the economy" is not an element of a "defense in depth" strategy. there is a difference between a choice of action (e.g., "wear a mask", "social distance", "wash hands"), and an /outcome/ of that strategy (e.g., "economic pain" ). edit: oh wait - I just re-read what you wrote and I get it. you're saying that one element of the strategy is responsible for. never mind

I would also argue it is not clear if they have been "destroyed" yet; it's possible that they might all bounce back quickly. (the long term damage on the government's books and the impact of printing money is what I am more worried about. also my actual job, which is currently making cool software to insure business loans, which now seems like it might be being done by governments!

(would you believe some economists have crunched the numbers on this whole "should we shut down to save the stonks" thing and have figured out that it's better, on a cost basis, to shut down the economy to take some short term pain now, instead of the long term economic damage that will occur when people die!@? ok at least in the US - the guy who literally invented the metric for what a US life is worth crunched the numbers and figured out that it's worth shutting down the economy. transcript for this episode of the Planet Money podcast from last month)
07:08pm 18/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4095 posts
This is a pretty special sentence. What is it with you people? You know viruses are very small, and the mist that forms on glass from the virtually non-existent droplets in your breath could contain thousands if not millions of viruses if you were infected right? And that if a person got too close, let's say within about 1.5m , that person could become infected?


Here comes the gold coast bouncer with the detailed medical knowledge.

Why is the virus not transmitted at 1.5 meters but 1 meter is dangerous?

I'm sure fpot has run the numbers ( or even knows where to find the numbers) to arrive at such a special knowledge.of virus is small.

What may not have floated through fpots empty head is that 1.5m is essentially arbitrary but you need *a* number if you are going to have a law. The US adopted 6 feet which is 1.8 meters. I'll bet 100 bucks the special thing about 6 feet is that most Americans can judge it easily and has nothing to do with any particular property of the virus.
07:24am 19/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41469 posts
howd america go with trying to preserve its economy vs fighting the virus?

its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.

also, liberty and rights, lolz.
07:43am 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4096 posts
America did lock down?

And better than most of western Europe?

its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.


That boat sailed when it left China. We won't ever get rid of the virus now.
10:42am 19/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40004 posts
its probably going to do more damage in the long term because its going to take them much longer to actually get rid of the virus.
The US is pretty much stuck with it now and just gonna be waiting for a vaccine, I think.

Even here in Aus, today a top story on ABC talks about how we might never get rid of it here in QLD, because there are 42 cases they can't track down. 42 is nothing and they think we might not ever get rid of it! The US is up to 1.5m cases and still no real sign of curve flattening.

There are too many of the "liberty and rights" brigade that will not tolerate the sort of lockdown that would be necessary to try to burn it out at this stage - I suspect at this stage the numbers might show there's just no getting on top of it without genuinely crushing their economy now.

They f***ed it up too badly with their initial response, from the top down.

(edit: feels pretty fkn defeatest to me for govt to say we can't get rid of it completely tbh given how low we've gotten the numbers, I get they wanna get the economy-ball rolling again as fast as possible but shrugging and saying O WELL I GUESS WE'RE STUCK WITH IT NOW instead of highlighting the need to keep being careful as things get back to normal seems weird)
11:09am 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4097 posts
There are too many of the "liberty and rights" brigade that will not tolerate the sort of lockdown that would be necessary to try to burn it out at this stage - I suspect at this stage the numbers might show there's just no getting on top of it without genuinely crushing their economy now.


It's always entertaining to see people whose rights are only minimally impacted/not impacted at all be cavalier with other people's rights.
12:13pm 19/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41470 posts
sure, no doubt there are some people having their libery's being impacted. then theres a whole heap of people who just dont like being told what to do, even if its for their own good.

australia has lots of people liek this as well.

they are idiots.
01:04pm 19/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40005 posts
actually looks like I am wrong, the US may have turned the corner in their curve; some new stats on death numbers. Look how good Australia is!
02:07pm 19/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4098 posts
sure, no doubt there are some people having their libery's being impacted. then theres a whole heap of people who just dont like being told what to do, even if its for their own good.


Reckon somewhere in those unemployment stats there are people who lost jobs because they can't work under the current rules and have something of a point that they should be allowed to go back to work now. Reckon they waaaay out number the people who just don't like being told what to do.

actually looks like I am wrong, the US may have turned the corner in their curve; some new stats on death numbers. Look how good Australia is!


Doesn't that graph say they turned a corner like 40 days ago?

Interesting afr articlecoronavirus shutdown did it go too far?

And just to prove the rule that you can find economists on either side of any argument.

University of New South Wales economics professor Gigi Foster says other hidden costs of lock down include the quality of life, people with other illnesses not receiving medical treatment because elective surgery was closed and people being too afraid to go to hospital, school closures hurting children from disadvantaged families and the recession slashing government revenue - reducing funding for healthcare such as for new cancer drugs to save other lives.

The lock downs "went too far", she says.

"The trade offs haven't been taken seriously and this is the biggest lesson I would like Australia to take forward," Foster says.


I wonder if NPR went out of its way to display the full character of the debate or chose economists whose views back an editorial line?
03:36pm 19/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17016 posts
Trump is taking 'the hydroxy', presumably against strong medical advice given that he has a history of heart disease, is clinically obese and geriatric. When asked he refused to name a prescribing physician.

This is your guy, team right. Very stable genius. Maybe he's lying again, who knows?

Hopefully this off-label usage won't spread in the States but ... you know.
08:11am 20/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
862 posts
Why would he expose his own physician to the vapid MSM in the US? I mean basic common sense tells you some of these answers pretty quick I would have assumed.

It is highly amusing though watching the cognitive dissonance of the left play out in slow motion

The left : Trump shouldn't tell people to take a drug. He isn't a doctor
Also the left : Trump shouldn't take that drug, it will kill him.

I would think I was a very stable genius as well if this was my opposition.
09:09am 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17017 posts
The left : Trump shouldn't tell people to take a drug. He isn't a doctor
Also the left : Trump shouldn't take that drug, it will kill him.

How are those statements at all contradictory?

He shouldn't take the the pills and he shouldn't promote the drug's use - both are contrary to the advice of his own FDA.

I'm legit lost here.
10:17am 20/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40006 posts
hogfather just relax and watch the sarah cooper videos

I have done a complete 180 and now eagerly look forward to each new trump speech
11:14am 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17018 posts
This forum thingy you made is clearly web 1.0 trog, no like button anywhere.
12:57pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4099 posts
Trump is taking 'the hydroxy', presumably against strong medical advice given that he has a history of heart disease, is clinically obese and geriatric. When asked he refused to name a prescribing physician.

This is your guy, team right. Very stable genius. Maybe he's lying again, who knows?


Vitally important that Cuomo not be held to account for forcing nursing homes to take diagnosed covid-19 patients.

Like at all costs we must not allow ourselves to look at decisions of actual consequence.

When the dust settles from this that and the decision to start cleaning subways daily in new York City in *may* are very likely to be the most significant decisions made during the whole crisis.
01:04pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17019 posts
Pretty sure that's called 'whataboutism'.
02:01pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4100 posts
Na it's called focusing on important issues over unimportant ones.

Why do you care what drugs Trump does or doesn't take? I can't see how it matters even a little bit.
02:07pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17020 posts
Nope.
02:39pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41471 posts
it is sort of a gauge of the mental capabilities of a person.

i mean id like to take a lot of medicines that probably wont hurt me, but using every fibre of will power in my body i resist (some days)
02:48pm 20/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27034 posts
The reason for this promotion of hydroxy is going to be something super mundane like financial gain in the end. trump is obviously lying when he says he takes it but it's one of his more dangerous lies. When he's up at the podium slurring away it needs to be remembered that he has literal worshippers. They post in this very thread. These worshippers will do whatever he says, and when he says that a dangerous drug is a miracle cure for a widespread lethal disease... well it's borderline criminal.
03:47pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4101 posts
Nope


Yep.

And frankly the focus on an irrelevance rather than on a decision with a quantifiable body count but reflects poorly on the wrong team is unsurprising.
04:31pm 20/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24677 posts
ABC News

More than 1,000 "high risk" health workers are set to be given daily doses of anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine to test how well it can ward off coronavirus.

"We're trying to move beyond opinion to generate rigorous scientific evidence," said rheumatologist Ian Wicks, from Melbourne's Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research.

Professor Wicks and fellow researcher Marc Pellegrini hope to recruit 2,250 "high risk" frontline and allied health workers around Australia for the trial.


Someone better tell them they will just be making Trump's mates rich.
06:47pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4102 posts
Those $1500 bucks of Sanofi shares are gonna explode yo.
07:33pm 20/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27035 posts
Why yes that article does say that it's an extremely dangerous drug, that there's no evidence it's an effective treatment for COVID and that trump's remarks about it are so dangerous extra restrictions are necessary.
07:40pm 20/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4103 posts
Why yes that article does say that it's an extremely dangerous drug, that there's no evidence it's an effective treatment for COVID and that trump's remarks about it are so dangerous extra restrictions are necessary.


Yes it says it can cause complications in known circumstances. So any drug.

You reckon it's

A) more dangerous;
B) exactly as dangerous; or
C) no where near as dangerous;

As deliberately exposing 80 year Olds to coronavirus while having excess hospital beds especially setup to deal with coronavirus patients?
09:10pm 20/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6292 posts

Studies say it has its uses, while you have COVID.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102587/

Taking it as a preventative is pretty stupid though, considering its a drug more risky than most. You'd want to use it if you're severely symptomatic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/health/chloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html

Deaths in a Brazil trial from Chloroquine, and heart issues with hydroxychloroquine in another trial.


10:53pm 20/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
863 posts

How are those statements at all contradictory?

He shouldn't take the the pills and he shouldn't promote the drug's use - both are contrary to the advice of his own FDA.

I'm legit lost here.


The same people telling everyone that they shouldn't take advice from someone who is not a doctor are in the same breath trying to judge that Trump is doing something unhealthy.

Again, really basic stuff.
06:47pm 21/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6668 posts
Don't take advice from someone that's not a doctor. Also Take advice from someone who is a doctor (telling you not to take a potentially dangerous drug that has no proven benefit.)

Only take Doctors advice. {And.} Take the Doctors advice.

Seems like the same page to me.
09:33pm 21/05/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17021 posts
The same people telling everyone that they shouldn't take advice from someone who is not a doctor are in the same breath trying to judge that Trump is doing something unhealthy.

Again, really basic stuff.

The Trump administration's FDA helpfully provides advice on the issue so that you don't have to be a doctor to be informed, and for physicians to stay informed. That advice is to not use 'the hydroxy' as a COVID-19 treatment or prophylactic, unless part of a clinical trial. The President's own words and actions say otherwise.

Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?
09:28am 22/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1302 posts

Unbiased news by our "most trusted" news service.

We're so immune to the constant uproar under Trump, this "scandal" was easy to miss.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-22/amidst-coronavirus-chaos-trump-wages-war-on-watchdogs/12269124

This article is listed as an "ANALYSIS" rather than "OPINION".


04:48pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4104 posts
Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?


The sum total of the issue is that Trump suggested the drug may be useful and the media must desperately "prove" him wrong.

this is the FDA guidance. It uses the following *permissive* language.

If a health care professional is considering use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine to treat or prevent COVID-19, FDA recommends checking www.clinicaltrials.gov for a suitable clinical trial and considering enrolling the patient. Consider using resourcesExternal Link Disclaimer available to assess a patient’s risk of QT prolongation and mortality.

Health professionals and patients are encouraged to report adverse events or side effects related to the use of these products to the FDA's MedWatch Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program:


Trump using the drug under the best medical guidance money can buy.

It is an absolute non-issue.
07:27pm 22/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6669 posts

Huh. FDA has a lot to say about it apparently. Even in the title link of the page you posted.

FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems
https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-information/hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-drug-safety-communication-fda-cautions-against-use

Good thing Trump has good doctors looking out for him. If only they had a healthcare system to look out for everyone over there.
07:58pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4105 posts
Yeah so the fact a drug has side effects does not mean it can't be used safely under medical supervision.

So for example in the FDA message again


Patients taking hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for FDA-approved indications to treat malaria or autoimmune conditions should continue taking their medicine as prescribed.
The benefits of these medicines outweigh the risks at the recommended doses for these conditions.
Do not stop taking your medicine without first talking to your health care professional and talk to them if you have any questions or concerns.


It still has those potential side effects for those patients. But use is still considered safe with appropriate medical supervision.

Which is true of all scheduled drugs.

If the guy was saying chug the s*** with a beer down the pub then *maybe* there would be a point. But that's not what happened.

What actually happened is that his doctor said the risks don't outweigh the potential benefits, so can't harm to try.

Which is consistent with the FDA guidance.

It's a f*****g ridiculous press s***fight the press is happy to indulge because they don't have to actual work.
08:35pm 22/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6670 posts
Ya, so lets tell everyone that they should run out and get on it. While we're on it, they should probably inject some disinfectant too. Also, get that Sunlight inside, through your skin or, you know, some other way.
08:59pm 22/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27036 posts
Don't forget to go back in time and not do anything differently, because while trump was downplaying the virus and telling everyone it was a democrat hoax windows of opportunity were being missed to isolate and contain which means we now have tens of thousands dead that shouldn't be. Nothing I'd change about that!

edit: and just as an aside, that news article Nmag helpfully posted shows that not only is he completely f*****g up the response in ways that nobody could imagine, he's also using the fog of the pandemic to further dismantle frameworks of accountability that he finds inconvenient. Can't really have people investigating things now can we?
09:14pm 22/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4106 posts
Ya, so lets tell everyone that they should run out and get on it. While we're on it, they should probably inject some disinfectant too. Also, get that Sunlight inside, through your skin or, you know, some other way.


Yep or you know take with medical supervision like the FDA says.

Non-issue.

Haha look at fpot. Delusional conspiracy theories often force you to hold totally contradictory views.

Trump is bumbling incompetent idiot but he is also using the distraction to completely remake the government.
07:14am 23/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6671 posts
Yep or you know take with medical supervision like the FDA says.


And then get on a national platform with a reach number of the billions and suggest other people should be doing it, even when you're not a Doctor? Then also saying you should look into injecting disinfectant?

Issue.
12:26pm 23/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4107 posts
No.

Why we still don't have a serious explanation of why the CDC couldn't mass produce or process tests in February but insisted on preventing independent labs from testing is an issue.

Why 4000 infected people were forced on nursing homes in new York knowing the elderly are particularly vulnerable is an issue.

The president discussing his medically supervised meds or avenues of research are non issues.

But if you want to engage in a round of backslapping every time this happens by all means help yourself. I'm just going to tell you that's what you're doing.
12:43pm 23/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27037 posts
I think the closest we've ever got to a conspiracy numpty admitting that hey maybe trump isn't the most brilliant president ever is when infi said that maybe sometimes he goes too far with things. That's quite telling I reckon.
01:56pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6672 posts
Hmm, if only they had a Pandemic preparedness plan or team available. I wonder what ever happened to them.
03:05pm 23/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4108 posts
They got moved into the department of health. But more importantly in the decade since SARS it never occurred to them to recommend removing the ban on independent labs testing for a disease when the CDC can't mass produce tests.
03:12pm 23/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27038 posts
It's now the pretty girl holding binders saying yep the plans are in these just don't ask any questions about what the plans are because if they say what we did the plans are wrong.
03:24pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1303 posts
Still raging about Trump... As if he's doesn't go too far sometimes. So many politicians don't go anywhere. He's outspoken antics likely won him the job.

Ohh nah sorry... frothpot the ANTI-conspiracy theorist says it's was RUSSIAN BOTS MAN!!

https://i.imgur.com/YI6GDNt.jpg
06:44pm 23/05/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
864 posts
Can you literally not comprehend what the issue is here?


You clearly can't. I explained it to you twice and you're still talking about the FDA like I said anything about it.
10:38pm 23/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41474 posts
01:40pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1304 posts

I can't afford to live in mum's basement while waiting tables between arts degree work. My daily late, youtube no-ads, stan, netflix, and the latest iphone costs money man. I'm not responsible for any of it... someone is to blame... Donald, Hasnon, Morrison.... I'll blame the boomers!!! and later, now that I've damaged my superannuation I'll scream about the entitlement of old age pension. Down with capitalism. This wouldn't have happened if the government owned and run everything and people dancing in circles with joy... just like in other comrade nations.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/12283866/data/accessing-super-early---age-data.jpghttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-25/coronavirus-early-access-superannuation-young-people/12282546


03:51pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41475 posts
touching your super early is bad juju. i hope people know this, but i suspect they dont.
05:15pm 25/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6673 posts
Silly WHO, saying a dangerous drug is dangerous;
The World Health Organization (WHO) has suspended testing of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine in coronavirus patients due to safety concerns
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-26/who-pauses-trial-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-coronavirus-patients/12285652

Maybe since they've stopped this trial they can move onto testing more important things, like injecting disinfectants
11:51am 26/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27039 posts
Who would have thought that the miracle drug peddled by a desperate, pathologically lying conman would turn out to be harmful? I am shocked.
12:59pm 26/05/20 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
2151 posts
You know what? It amazes me no one (correct me if I'm wrong) has changed their mind or view in years...so why bother arguing?...lol
02:08am 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27040 posts
Because it's an internet forum and it's kind of fun to argue despite being fully aware of how pointless it is. Actually interacting and engaging with these people irl is a different story. Very easy to sort out the scum so you know who to avoid. They're always the bitter, twisted, milquetoast types so they stand out.
02:47am 27/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40009 posts
I see we are already up to the point in my prediction timeline where the President of the United States is saying that the upcoming election is being rigged

edit: also Twitter is rigging it
10:03am 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4109 posts
Manged to gloss straight over the only important paragraph in that article there scooter.

Dr Michael Ryan, the executive director of the WHO's emergencies program, said the WHO was in "day-to-day" discussions with China about scientific inquiries into the animal origin of the disease.


Maybe they can move on to figuring out how China lost control of the disease and cost the world around 30% of global GDP.

edit: also Twitter is rigging it

Looking forward to howls of "voter suppression" from Stacy Abrahams being labled "potentially misleading"
10:05am 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27041 posts
That's when he's not busy accusing people he doesn't like of murder which is okay just some harmless marketing spin.
04:20pm 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4110 posts
Oh the guy who was comfortable with accusing a supreme Court judge with running a gang rape club in highschool has an opinion about accusing people of things for political purposes.
09:04pm 27/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1305 posts
fpot says
They're always the bitter, twisted, milquetoast types so they stand out.


What is there to be bitter about? Trump got in, crooked Hillary didn't even show up after losing, the losing team blames Russian bots in denial. Bernie just fizzled again. Now they have that guy with the alzheimer's. The last few years have been hilarious. Boris, Trump, Scomo. I think you could be projecting again.

Surely Jacinta warms your cold heart fpot?

It's disappointing that you are so angry.
10:49pm 27/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27042 posts
There's lots of different reasons trump supporters are constantly bitter. To be a trump supporter you need to be a spiteful, hate filled liar and people like that are never happy no matter what happens. The only reason to be glad about trump being elected is if you're eager for the cruelty and suffering he promises to inflict, either intentionally through sheer malice or unintentionally through vast incompetence.

You though, the archetypal s***-eating incel conspiracy theorist are bitter because you have a disease that fools you into thinking you're superior to others when you're just so comprehensively awful. A lying little s***heel so fragile you'll have mental breakdowns on an internet forum just because someone has decided to limit the amount of posts you can make. Someone so acutely aware of their own shortcomings that you'll tell mundane lies about being the sensible family man because you believe doing so will give you credibility. How can someone who engages in such bizarrely transparent bulls***ting not be bitter?

So go and chill for another 24 hours until you can post again. Then the Nmag healing process can start again where you lie on the internet forum, safe from the laughter and mockery you'd face if you ever tried it on people irl. Guessing that hasn't been a problem for you in a while.
11:41pm 27/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4111 posts
There's lots of different reasons trump supporters are constantly bitter. To be a trump supporter you need to be a spiteful, hate filled liar and people like that are never happy no matter what happens. The only reason to be glad about trump being elected is if you're eager for the cruelty and suffering he promises to inflict, either intentionally through sheer malice or unintentionally through vast incompetence.


Imagine typing that out and think yep,I'm crushing it. Trump is a uniquely malevolent force (who is also dumb and incompetent) at least until the next Republican president comes along, who will then be Hitler and Trump will be rehabilitated.

Oh and all his voters are evil .

We should also have a kinder politics.
07:14am 28/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24678 posts
I hope twitter gets a good smack over the nose. It is a great platform if it allows free speech.
08:38am 28/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40011 posts
I hope twitter gets a good smack over the nose. It is a great platform if it allows free speech.
spending the next few days watching libertarians tie themselves into knots advocating for free speech and spreading the (false) narrative that trump's free speech is being somehow impinged (by the saddest tiniest most pathetic little warning labels of all time), while at the same time desperately calling for harsh regulations on companies like twitter SOUNDS like it should be a fun time

but I bet it won't be

it might be interesting to read the slashdot thread on this topic and see how most of the audience there (mostly American, mostly free speechers, to the point it's annoying) are interpreting this as a direct assault by trump on free speech

here is another post about Youtube removing China stuff and you can see what they say when they feel "censorship" is taking place on a social media platform, lest you think the above is just them being anti trump or something (there are also tons of trump supporters on there which has always been weird)

this is kinda the sad twitter version of:

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/trump-chyron.jpg

trump should short twitter, temporarily deactivate his account, and cash in!! but he won't. why? because they will continue to let him peddle his bulls*** with zero repercussions. not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?

my guess is they're just going to potter along limply like they have been because they have no idea what to do, other than sit around and wish they'd remove him from the service years before he was president, like the rest of us do
10:32am 28/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41476 posts
i wonder if drumphs aides are kept up at nite worrying about what dumb wrong s*** hes going to tweet next?
11:48am 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4112 posts
not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?


They can either put forward they think objective reality is and live without all the privileges with respect to copyright they enjoy. Or they can be a platform with no editorial point of view.

They can't be both and any discussion that goes ho ho the 1st amendment does not apply to private citizens that doesn't address the special exemptions they get *purely* because they don't make editorial judgement is incomplete.
02:26pm 28/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27044 posts
spending the next few days watching libertarians tie themselves into knots advocating for free speech and spreading the (false) narrative that trump's free speech is being somehow impinged (by the saddest tiniest most pathetic little warning labels of all time), while at the same time desperately calling for harsh regulations on companies like twitter SOUNDS like it should be a fun time

but I bet it won't be
That's because there used to be a time when you thought things like that mattered. Where if you pointed out to one of these muh free speech numpties that hey, twitter is a private company so maybe their free speech to point out that someone is using their platform to spread harmful lies is also important would actually give them pause. But it's just bulldozer lies now. Lie, and then when those lies are exposed just lie again or cover them up with new lies. It's clever because it frustrates the people who actually care for the truth and fools the dumb into thinking that maybe if this person is so determined to say the same wrong thing over and over again it isn't wrong.
03:57pm 28/05/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6674 posts
Manged to gloss straight over the only important paragraph in that article there scooter.


Not entirely sure what that has to do with the topic of Trump claiming he was taking, and suggesting it was a good idea to take, a drug that has been known to be, and apparently proven, dangerous.

...but... ok?

Maybe they can move on to figuring out how China lost control of the disease and cost the world around 30% of global GDP.


The very next line after your quote suggests they are... As they should be. If only they didn't have to waste time they could be spending investigating China telling Americans not to do dangerous and stupid things their President is telling them they should do.
05:19pm 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4113 posts
Not entirely sure what that has to do with the topic of Trump claiming he was taking, and suggesting it was a good idea to take, a drug that has been known to be, and apparently proven, dangerous.

...but... ok?


A more accurate way to phrase that might be, Trump in consultation with the white house physician decided to take a drug with known side effects for a benefit that is currently the subject of studies which indicate it might be useful for the desired effect.



I'll refer you my earlier posts where I explain this is an empty meaningless press s*** fight, which apparently the ABC has decided they want a piece of.

The very next line after your quote suggests they are... As they should be. If only they didn't have to waste time they could be spending investigating China telling Americans not to do dangerous and stupid things their President is telling them they should do.


You mean like during December last year when it wouldn't be a purely academic exercise and aided the sole point of their existence? They've really been holding China's feet to the fire.

I wonder if remdesivir has side effects?
09:42pm 28/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4114 posts
not sure if twitter are too dumb to realise they've f***ed themselves into a corner or not now though. are they going to wuss out and stop doing it? put their foot down and decide they're going to be the one social media platform that believes in an objective reality?


Further to this idiocy.

Twitter's opening attempt to fact check Trump contains factual errors.

I mean I'm shocked. Can't speak for the rest of you. It could have something to do with 90% of politics is about choices that don't have objective answers. Could be worth think about something like that for 30 seconds before talking about political fact checking and "objective reality".
07:33am 29/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1306 posts
Again fpot demonstrates how angry and spiteful he is. You should get some help man.

Here is what Trog has done in the last few years:
- Hosts a political discussion on gaming forum with a view to push left wing views
- Gets irritated that it attracts more anti-left voters damaging the effectiveness of his echo chamber
- Created excel spreadsheet that returns "Vote for Greens" regardless of just about any choices you make
- Created script to share with users that blocks users from seeing non-left wing views
- Condones repeated abusive behaviour by fellow left wingers, contrary to forum rules
- Post limits people who call him on the above
- Has a tearful "I work so hard and no one loves me" wall of text.

It's a demonstration of immaturity. A common theme in marxist ideals.

You carry on about conspiracy theories and at the same time think I'm a smurf. rofl

See a professional. Your alcoholic drinking buddies can't fix you.

XOX
09:49am 29/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27048 posts
Yes because smurfs are just so uncommon and rare on an internet forum I am making such a leap of faith there. Meanwhile you type a giant list detailing a years long multifaceted Ausgamers trog-fuelled left-wing conspiracy and I just can't even. trog is the one of the only ones who actually spends time trying to converse with you people. Sometimes I feel kind of sorry for him because I think he thinks there's actually hope for you when there clearly isn't. But do please continue to cry more.
01:06pm 29/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27051 posts
https://i.imgur.com/rsfIdg9.png

It's a left-wing silicon valley conspiracy to silence the president.
07:59pm 29/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4115 posts
maybe we should listen to Elizabeth Warren about objective truth

Let's have her decide if something is true or not. She only systematically lied about being a minority for 30 years of public life without being challenged. Well until Trump teased her into getting a DNA test.
09:47pm 29/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6293 posts
The thank you at the end really tops it off.
Didn't think he could be losing it anymore than he already is, but here we are.
11:35pm 29/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40015 posts
https://trog.qgl.org/up/2005/wh.jpg

oh s***

this is happening

trump has no choice (or at least, no ability) to de-escalate. he literally started sockpuppeting on the whitehouse.gov account and twitter stomped it as well!

twitter has proven they're finally willing to up the ante. it would not surprise me if they have a war room of people thinking up new features to test over the weekend to try to glad-hand the dude a little bit more politely.

but I don't think they would have gone down this road without both eyes open and a roadmap about what they're going to do, up to and including the point they will disable his account for continuing to blatantly break the rules

Facebook have pussied out so I am in the processing of backing up my FB data with a view to deactivating my account this morning. I dunno if I'll go through with it, I keep up with a lot of friends and family that otherwise I have no connection to. but I think I've hit the wall
07:54am 30/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41478 posts
08:20am 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27052 posts
I deleted my facebook around the time of the Cambridge Analytica thing. It was cool, because now when I bump into people and ask them how they are/what they're up to I don't already know what the answer will be.

trump only knows how to lie, so there is no chance he will adjust his behaviour. I think it's important they leave his lies out on display so I fully agree with their approach. Soon he will start using his top sycophants to post his lies instead of merely amplifying them but I'm guessing twitter will be ready for that.
01:37pm 30/05/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41479 posts
lulz, i do hate that a bit fpot, talking to people about stuff i know they've done.
03:19pm 30/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4116 posts

trump has no choice (or at least, no ability) to de-escalate. he literally started sockpuppeting on the whitehouse.gov account and twitter stomped it as well!

twitter has proven they're finally willing to up the ante. it would not surprise me if they have a war room of people thinking up new features to test over the weekend to try to glad-hand the dude a little bit more politely.


lol Twitter has an opinion on glorifying violence but allow Ali Khamenei to preach genocidal anti Jewish hate with impunity. These are fundamentally unserious people.

Don't forget in order to stop the Nazis hate Twitter has now censored someone whose daughter is Jewish but not censored someone who advocates killing all the Jews.

And apparently trog is thinking of packing it in with Facebook because they won't do the same (objectively moronic) thing
04:06pm 30/05/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24679 posts
because now when I bump into people


MOSTLY FALSE
04:07pm 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27053 posts
So are you beginning to understand infi or are you still winning?
04:26pm 30/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1307 posts
09:34pm 30/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4117 posts
Reckon those deaths by left wing terrorism vs right wing terrorism since September 12 2001 been pushed around a bit in the last 24 hours.

I'm sure michael Moore will get "fact checked" as well.

to blatantly break the rules


You mispelt monopoly provider terms of service. But you know no biggie. Those anti trust suit are Gunna suuucks.
10:30pm 30/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27054 posts
12:02am 31/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4118 posts
Yeah cause stopping people trying to break into the Whitehouse by force is like police totally drunk on power.

What a f*****g deranged moronic air head fpot is.
08:42am 31/05/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40016 posts
Cool and normal.
Twitter should jump on that last tweet with a fact check; I just looked at that Muriel Bowser's tweeter and it makes it clear that DC police were, in fact, there and involved
10:11am 31/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27055 posts
Did they supply the vicious dogs or the ominous weapons?
01:40pm 31/05/20 Permalink
Vash
6294 posts
06:38pm 31/05/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27056 posts
Meanwhile COVID is still active and the spread will be a further consequence of these riots.
07:09pm 31/05/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1308 posts
Terrorists.

Here in Seattle we have ANTIFA members in with the protestors damaging property and causing the issues.
I'm watching Nashville right now. I'm convinced these people aren't part of our community.
from St. Louis and said the Ferguson stuff blew up out of control when tons of people that didn't even live there showed up.


People who can not contain their emotions. Triggered people, who are passionate and who let emotion cloud their judgement. Some of them likely had poor education and substance abuse.

We see it here, among us, in this thread. People who are passionate, poorly educated, and affected attacking any who do not support their hatred.

Sending hugs, thoughts and prayers to the haters. May Jesus shine his holy light on you.
09:30pm 31/05/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4119 posts
Twitter should jump on that last tweet with a fact check; I just looked at that Muriel Bowser's tweeter and it makes it clear that DC police were, in fact, there and involved


Yep Twitter need to fact check what the president could see from his window. Because that's like important when antifa goons are burning down cities and people on Joe Bidens staff are promising to pay their
bail.

that convenient myth of antifa means anti fascist so they can't be terrorists has been hopefully permanently blown up.
07:55am 01/06/20 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
17031 posts
Has a political manifesto been released by 'antifa' in relation to riots?

Because we do know of one group of armed protestors that recently invaded government buildings to demand political change at gunpoint.

Also, interesting that this is your first comment on the whole issue. Was Floyd murdered? Is there an issue of systemic discrimination against black people, particularly regarding black males, in the US?
08:18am 01/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
865 posts
I love it how Vash puts a video of cops shooting people probably with rubber pellets up and says nothing about his best buds in antifa/BLM torching city blocks and bashing business owners to near-death. Anything to peddle the narrative. Useful idiot personified.
09:32am 01/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6675 posts
People who can not contain their emotions. Triggered people, who are passionate and who let emotion cloud their judgement. Some of them likely had poor education and substance abuse.


That's a fairly accurate description of Trump.
10:25am 01/06/20 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21586 posts
wouldn't mind getting shot with a rubber bullet to see how much it hurts
03:19pm 01/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24680 posts
right up there with tazing and waterboarding I bet.
03:22pm 01/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4120 posts
Has a political manifesto been released by 'antifa' in relation to riots?


Should take you about 10 minutes of googling.


Also, interesting that this is your first comment on the whole issue. Was Floyd murdered? Is there an issue of systemic discrimination against black people, particularly regarding black males, in the US?


Whether or not Floyd was murdered it doesn't legitimise burning down a bunch of houses and shops often owned by black males.

It's also interesting that this is your first comment on this, and it's too minimise the incontestable massive mob violence.
03:40pm 01/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27057 posts
I just hope someone remembers to salt the earth once the riots are done because holy f***, what a s***hole country.
06:35pm 01/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6295 posts
lil donnie had to hide in his bunker, poor guy must be terrified.
These riots are supposedly Antifa, i didnt think they had such a huge following.
whats coming next week?
09:58pm 01/06/20 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
40018 posts
09:31am 02/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1309 posts
Hey I got a great idea. Lets import people from Africa and sell them as slaves. What a messed up nation. I doubt they will ever recover from that stupid idea. I've given slavery some thought over the years. If you had some slaves and you treated them really well, would the benefit be mutual?

Well at first the concept seems to work. Say I have a female slave and I treat her really well. She has time off, her own space and it's basically a job like a live in nanny. She sends some money back overseas. We take care of her. It all goes well for a while. Not all people could be trusted to treat them fairly. Eventually she wants to marry and have kids. I can't hold her back from that. So I house her husband and her kids in the servants quarters and now they both work for us. Eventually the kids get older.. where they going to go? I'm supposed to sell them, or hire them. So eventually I've become a "slave breeder". Breeding and selling slaves. I sell off her children and they get shipped away and their family unit is broken.

I breed birds and the babies eventually have to leave and go far away from their mum and dad. That's a bit sad. They are used to being a family unit and then it gets broken.

So I think slavery is a flawed concept even if you really wanted to treat them properly. It probbaly only works well if you are going to treat them poorly, which is not morally nice.

I think it's a poorly considered short term idea.

"Let's introduce foxes and rabbits so we can hunt them"

"Let's introduce cane toads to eat insects".

"Wow this South African Lantana plant looks great. Lets plant that in our front garden."
02:29pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27059 posts
Maybe if I type a whole bunch of weird nonsense people will forget I've just spent years supporting and defending a fascist piece of s***.

edit: https://i.imgur.com/DhVoDhk.png

Just another GOP member craving for the deaths of American citizens who don't like to be murdered and who oppose fascism.
04:37pm 02/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
866 posts
You literally just said they should salt the Earth after they finish rioting (in mostly black neighbourhoods by the way) you absolute s****tain. F*** me you're dumb.
05:00pm 02/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6296 posts
What on earth did Nmag just post?
I guess the mental gymnastics of attempting to rationalize donnie's actions is really taking its toll on their mental health.

It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?

https://i.imgur.com/CQdcrBn.png

Hint to donnie, if you're failing in the polls you start a war internationally, not domestically. It's in the Republican play book.
05:05pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27061 posts
So are you and Nmag the same person? Because I find it highly unlikely that we could have two frightened little incels who when lined up seem to have matching f***wit wavelengths. haha, just kidding. Following troll farm twitter has taught me plenty, and that is that weeping little incels are as common as muck and energised by their bible thumping fascist president. See you in 24 hours for another one of your pitiful comments, d***.

What I find so amazing about this situation are the people who are surprised about it. Since when did inevitability become surprising? How the f*** could you not foresee that a lawless, violent, sadistic narcissist handed so much power would abuse it, or allow it to get out of control? Just in case there's another person stupid enough to take what I literally said literally, I have no hope for the USA getting out of this, and whatever eventually arises from the ashes is going to be far worse than what we have now. Name one person in a position of leadership over there capable of turning this around and restoring the USA to what it once was. It was never anything great, it was simply a stabilising force that could be relied upon to act predictably and somewhat rationally. Now it's just a festering wound producing new kinds of pus we haven't seen yet. What a f*****g joke.

edit:
It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?
They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.
05:11pm 02/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4121 posts
I look forward to a cogent explanation of how

American citizens who don't like to be murdered and who oppose fascism.
justify setting a house on fire with children inside and then blocking access to firefighters because Trump and or racism.

It's becoming more "us vs them" in America. How will the Government decide who is Antifa? They aren't an organisation. Shoot any protestor who wears a hoodie & mask?


Yeah more the "protestors" who have a hoodie and a mask and who gang bash random shop owners and loot.

The national guard has now been activated by 21 governors. 21 out of 50. The idea that it's just peaceful protests is f*****g insanity.
05:59pm 02/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6297 posts
They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.


Yeah, Antifa are minority group. It's convenient to think its all their doing. When in fact it's people who are simply fed up with police brutality & the Government.
06:46pm 02/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4122 posts
Who are also killing people, burning down houses with children in them and looting.

Antifa are minority group


Oh wait I thought they weren't an organisation.

Interesting how we've moved from they're literally against fascism to "not all" protestors.

Edit oh and now
antifa are attacking Jewish Synagogues and kosher bakers and deli

Those proud anti Nazis attacking Jews.

The post below is full blowen retarded. Fpot is living in a straight up dream world.
08:12pm 02/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27064 posts
Another funny thing - all the 2nd Amendment muh guns and freedom f****ticks who were forever banging on about how muh guns are so important because I need them to fight government tyranny are now pledging their support for the tyrannical government because it might give them a chance to shoot some of them ungrateful blacks who should be happy with what they've got.
08:20pm 02/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24682 posts

How many of those second amendment "f****itcks" have opened fire on the rioting and looting animals? Zero. They have been guarding their families and businesses from orgiastic violence.

You're accusing the US government of tyranny when it is in the literal opposite state - chaos - because of State governor inaction.

The pact between the people and the government is that the people sacrifice some of their freedoms so that the government will keep them safe. The US state governments have proven themselves incapable of protecting their citizens by letting these riots spiral unchallenged.

The rioters are black AND white. Their skin colour doesn't matter, their instillation of terror for 7 nights running does.



https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1267945466357927936


09:23am 03/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27065 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.

What you need to do is go back and make a note of every time you've mocked someone for taking a knee during a national anthem, or when you've promoted one of trump's lies about being the best president for black people in the history of the USA, or when you've participated in an #Obamagate conspiracy theory from your good friend convicted liar George because Obama just has to be a corrupt criminal because... he just has to be. All of the lies, all of the sweeping under the rug of the facts, all of the self-serving conspiracy theories fuelled by the prejudices of the dumb are whats causing this. No s*** the state's have it out of control - how the f*** do you control something like this? The trick is to stop it from happening in the first place, and the way you do that is by not having a nation controlled by a racist, pathologically lying conspiracy theorist. And people like you have been lying and promoting the lies of this person since they were elected, which makes you culpable.
01:29pm 03/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4123 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.


If you had the capacity for shame I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself.

It is *crystal clear* you don't care about racism at all. You just like calling people racist.

That man was murdered in cold blood by the supposed "protestors" who say black lives matter.

You are now at the point that air headed sloganeering trumps actual black lives.

What a profoundly scummy individual you are.
04:24pm 03/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6298 posts

Here we go again.
Its the Governors fault!@#

You might as well just not bother posting, Infi, and link donnie tweets.

Also,
The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/


05:45pm 03/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27066 posts
11:45pm 03/06/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41483 posts
can only imagine the Rona is blowing up deluxe during all of this protesting. America is really rooted and Drumph is at the wheel.

I wonder where the buck will stop?
04:28am 04/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27067 posts
Massive crowds also protesting in the UK, France and Amsterdam. It's going to be disastrous.
04:45am 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4124 posts
Also,
The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence


Strangely the article can't link to the report that says that. The f*****g fantasy land you morons live in.

Also just for you scooter

Silly WHO, saying a dangerous drug is dangerous;
the dog s*** study that formed the basis for the WHO's decision.

A Guardian investigation can reveal the US-based company Surgisphere, whose handful of employees appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model, has provided data for multiple studies on Covid-19 co-authored by its chief executive, but has so far failed to adequately explain its data or methodology.


At last the WHO is taking medical advice from L Ron Hubbard and Jenna Jameson. Everyone at that organisation should lose their jobs.
07:30am 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6676 posts

Wow, thats good Info. Good thing the University of Minnesota thinks it's bulls*** as well
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trial-results/

At least according to a study being published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The prevention trial released Wednesday showed 40 percent of the participants who took the drug developed side effects that were not serious — mostly nausea, upset stomach and diarrhea. The study found no serious side effects or cardiac complications, the researchers said.

Its findings reinforced those of previous studies showing the drug does not provide benefit against covid-19.

11:02am 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4125 posts
So just to clarify quickly, dangerous in this context means "may or may not cause nausea".

I'm glad we got to the bottom of it. I was reliably informed that the drug was dangerous and would definitely kill people.

Not so much apparently.

Also from your article

David Boulware, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Minnesota and the study’s senior investigator, said he launched the trial because hydroxychloroquine had shown signs in a lab setting that it might be effective against the virus.


So a drug with mild side effects which showed some promise in a lab went to clinical trials but didn't work out. That is the most gigantic non story I can think of in the context.

In any case hope you are keeping well.
12:08pm 04/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
867 posts
PP, we should maybe stand back and wait. The coronavirus is apparently very very dangerous. Retarded liberals like fpot and Vash think the protests are justified in the era of social distancing. We should let them go and protest, expose themselves to this apparently very dangerous virus, and thin their own herd out.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
12:53pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4126 posts
Nah.

If these protests do cause a second wave it will be the minority communities that bear the brunt of it.
01:19pm 04/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27068 posts
PP, we should maybe stand back and wait. The coronavirus is apparently very very dangerous. Retarded liberals like fpot and Vash think the protests are justified in the era of social distancing. We should let them go and protest, expose themselves to this apparently very dangerous virus, and thin their own herd out.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
Remember when these people actually pretended they weren't nazis and got all indignant when they were labelled as such? Really showing your red, white and black here strongly, incel.
04:19pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4127 posts
Quick look at this dead black guy to distract from over a century of institutional racism and extra-judicial killing of black people by the police. Things really are equal.


Every single time fpot calls someone a nazi just remember this is how he reacted to a black man being murdered by a violent mob nominally protesting police violence against black people.
05:28pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6677 posts

Because the quantity and length of the trials weren't testing for that.

But federal regulators have said it should be used only for hospitalized patients or in clinical trials, because of possible side effects including serious heart-rhythm issues.
The FDA is aware of reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, often in combination with azithromycin and other QT prolonging medicines. We are also aware of increased use of these medicines through outpatient prescriptions. Therefore, we would like to remind health care professionals and patients of the known risks associated with both hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or


06:31pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4128 posts
The WHO, meanwhile, resumed its trial of hydroxychloroquine, saying its safety experts concluded there was no reason to discontinue it.


Dude that is from the article you posted before.

The idea that it is an exceptionally dangerous drug and it is reckless to look into whether it has therapeutic value for covid-19 as far as I can see has no basis in fact.

*All* drugs have side effects and in the middle of a pandemic of new disease those are risks that have to be taken, even if only to rule the drug out.

The study checking for a preventative effect produced totally trivial side effects. If the risk of these heart conditions was so high as to rule the drug out for safety concerns it should have presented in those trials and apparently it did not.

That says to me, consistently with the FDA advice you just posted, that in certain known circumstances the drug can have dangerous side effects. Those circumstances can apparently be managed or avoided. Further that document as well as the study you just linked to suggest that in a lab the drug gave some indication it could be used in a preventative role or a therapeutic role.

Now if your argument is that Trump was overselling it's potential I don't disagree. Edit I'll even concede it would have been better to say something vague like we are researching possible helpful drugs but it's too early to make a meaningful comment.

But if your argument was that there was some colossal public health risk in saying the drug looks promising or even taking it under appropriate medical supervision then your argument is defeated by the material you yourself are posting.

Hence, as I have said *from the beginning* the whole debate is a straight non-issue.
07:18pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6678 posts
But if your argument was that there was some colossal public health risk in saying the drug looks promising


Not at all, because that's not what happened.
07:29pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4129 posts
So what do you think happened and what do you the likely and possible consequences of it have been?
08:27pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6679 posts
It wasn't a suggestion. Looking into injecting disinfectant could be taken as a suggestion, I guess... at a stretch... if you're being facetious.
Likely outcome? Many people taking it that shouldn't. Resulting in death. Because their president promoted it.
08:46pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1310 posts
09:09pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4130 posts
It wasn't a suggestion. Looking into injecting disinfectant could be taken as a suggestion, I guess... at a stretch... if you're being facetious.
Likely outcome? Many people taking it that shouldn't. Resulting in death. Because their president promoted it.


I don't understand what you're saying. He didn't suggest it but he merely saying this specific drug could work is a suggestion?

Where did he say just grab a box of this s*** and take it with out consulting a doctor?

Apparently even if he did say that the mostly likely outcome is nothing happening? A less than 50% chance of getting nausea and in extreme cases on a c***tail of other drugs heart issues.
09:32pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6680 posts
Where did he say just grab a box of this s*** and take it with out consulting a doctor?


He doesn't need to. As the President of the United States of America his voice, sadly, carries weight. There are a lot of vulnerable people that listen to him and would take his word (saying it's good) over a Doctors. You only have to look at people in our own back yard (Nimbin) to know they reject Doctors (vaccines) over whatever the f*** authority figure they chose to follow.

The short term lower dosage testing resulted in side affects appearing, rather quickly. Longer term use has had reports of far more serious issues. Enough that the FDA had to put out a statement of concern/warning as a result of the Presidents remarks.
09:42pm 04/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4131 posts
Well ok perhaps he should have been more mindful of the ignore doctors and take large doses of a drug for extended periods of time whenever the president says initial research (by doctors) looks promising in the treatment of disease you may or may not have (but can only confirm at pathology lab full of doctors) demographic.

Do we have much research on the size of that demographic?

I don't not accept that the President should not discuss something because there is a risk however remote someone somewhere could take a drug irresponsibly as a result.

But even if that really was the case what possible reason could a so called responsible journalist have to repeat for months on end that the president recommends the drug if stating his endorsement is itself dangerous?

It seems to me the newspapers can't possibly believe the mere presidential endorsement is dangerous and then proceed to publish that endorsement at every possible opportunity including amplify porn star based research on the drugs efficacy.

Edit. The lancet has now retracted that study.
see here

That's not a massive humiliation for the world's leading medical journals at all.
10:32pm 04/06/20 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6681 posts
He wasn't 'discussing' it he was promoting it as a treatment and a preventative. There is a large wide gap between promotion and discussion.
09:00am 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4132 posts
Until you can show me some tangible evidence a bunch of people took the drug with reckless disregard for medical advice you are discussing an empty hypothetical.

One that's is slowly proving more false as time goes by.
09:32am 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4133 posts
oh I'm glad you brought up the woman investigated for murdering her husband with fish tank cleaner.


From your article
A man in Arizona has died and his wife is in critical condition after drinking a small amount of a chloroquine phosphate product in hopes of preventing a coronavirus infection. Instead of the drug form of chloroquine phosphate, the couple ingested a chloroquine phosphate product that’s used to treat parasites in fish.


They are the same incident. So yes straightforward pure fake news.

Now before continuing I want you explain to me how Trump shouldn't endorse a drug because someone might ingest a form of one the chemicals *obviously not fit for human consumption* is a serious argument.
12:12pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6299 posts

The deadly violence continues by American cops

https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-two-buffalo-police-officers-suspended-after-violently-shoving-man-ground

Police brutality at police brutality protests. And a President who encouraged it. Good one, America.


02:29pm 05/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
868 posts
Wondering when these people so offended by suggestions by elected officials are going to come down on Eric Holder and Maxine Waters et. al. for suggesting that violence against conservatives is a justified course of action.
02:37pm 05/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27069 posts
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout
04:34pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6300 posts

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-political-science/article/trump-effect-an-experimental-investigation-of-the-emboldening-effect-of-racially-inflammatory-elite-communication/0335108B8E4AF36CBFFA1E45816C6143

This one is interesting

This article explores the effect of explicitly racial and inflammatory speech by political elites on mass citizens in a societal context where equality norms are widespread and generally heeded yet a subset of citizens nonetheless possesses deeply ingrained racial prejudices. The authors argue that such speech should have an ‘emboldening effect’ among the prejudiced, particularly where it is not clearly and strongly condemned by other elite political actors. To test this argument, the study focuses on the case of the Trump campaign for president in the United States, and utilizes a survey experiment embedded within an online panel study. The results demonstrate that in the absence of prejudiced elite speech, prejudiced citizens constrain the expression of their prejudice. However, in the presence of prejudiced elite speech – particularly when it is tacitly condoned by other elites – the study finds that the prejudiced are emboldened to both express and act upon their prejudices.


This might explain why theres a large increase in white supremacist terrorism. The bigots have come out of the basement.
05:00pm 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4134 posts
This might explain why theres a large increase in white supremacist terrorism. The bigots have come out of the basement.


Yep huge increase in white supremacists chanting f*** the police and looting louis vuitton and spray painting black lives matter on Synagogues.

Social science is such garbage.

The level of self delusion on display by fpot and vash is simply unbelievable. ANTIFA are literally burning down cities as we speak (almost uniformly democrat run cities) and some how those triksy white supremacists are too blame. It's happening in front of our eyes you morons.
05:20pm 05/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27070 posts
Yeah and that's really the only safe place for them to be. Thing is that they're out now, and they've had a little taste of the cruelty and hatred trump can spread so it will be hard for them to give that up. One of the great problems of the world that needs considering.
05:33pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6301 posts
09:01pm 05/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4135 posts

Butbut Antifa.


Known hot bed of white supremacism New York has a week long 9pm curfew after widespread street violence and looting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/nyregion/nyc-protests-george-floyd.html

But vash has an out of context photo, which explains everything.

27 people murdered in Chicago this weekend. Almost all black.

You are a f*****g idiot vash.
11:04pm 05/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1311 posts
Scooter clearly gets his news from some sensationalised cuck service. Trump hardly recommended people inject disinfectant. We went through this.

I hope they issue a s*** load of fines today in NSW.

The original organisers — the Indigenous Social Justice Association, the Anticolonial Asian Alliance and the Autonomous Collective Against Racism — have now publicly withdrawn from the event
"If people choose to disobey the Supreme Court ruling and attend the planned protest regardless, they need to be aware they are doing so unlawfully and police will respond accordingly."
Police will have the power to issue move-along orders if more than 500 people attend, with the option of also issuing $1,000 fines for breaking social distancing rules.


Forecast for Saturday:

MUCH TRIGGERING
11:53am 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27072 posts
I'll never get over hearing an incel call someone a cuck.
12:23pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4136 posts
https://i.postimg.cc/7h8z1Jp3/EZxmxf-TWk-AI0-D0q.png

That's a correction for the ages.

The newspapers of record *daily* prove why the get labelled fake news.

We reported a doctored video of less than a minute of speech as truth. Woopsie. Edit, oh and for some reason quote mines never happen to democrats in our pages. Totes just a slip of the pen.

I'm sure the Tweet of this will get fact checked. Very intelligent trog told me Twitter fact checking things was brilliant and not a way to permanently destroy it's credibility in less than a week.

Actually, while talking about burning institutional credibility to the ground in seconds. 1300 hundred "doctors" say breaking lockdown to protest racism is legitimate because racism is a bigger public health threat than coronavirus.

Science or something. Don't forget hogfather was enraged at the hubris of asking merely these people to research stuff. Palpably unserious stuff.

The sheer hubris, to stand in front of the nation and the nation's best experts and honestly believe that he has had a eureka moment of value to the crisis.
permalink
02:10pm 06/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24683 posts
- police brutality of any sort is abhorrent
- bad cops need to be removed and criminal abuse prosecuted
- people have an inherent right to protest, and be safe from harassment while protesting
- It's ok to wear BLM and MAGA gear or any other activist gear, and feel safe to do so.
- violent protestors will get arrested
- rioting and looting does not advance the social discussion, it's criminal opportunism

Which ones do you disagree with?
05:06pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4137 posts
- people have an inherent right to protest, and be safe from harassment while protesting
this is what happened to protesters two weeks ago
That's a father being separated from babies.

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/2d6a0bdaed3e7115ef70a8d2d08d1cf7?width=650No doubt the dudes a numpty. But none of our resident deeply concerned about justice folks said s***. Not one.

Other than the political sensibilities of the protesters what changed in the last 14 days.
05:26pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27074 posts
Hey look one of your dumb lists. Nice. All of the things in it are objectively correct btw so well done with that. The problem is the man you have chosen to deify has gaslighted, inflicted cruelty upon people and just outright lied for his entire term. This has eroded trust to the point where serious people are now unable to believe anything that he says. When he's slumped at the podium slurring out his whatevers about he opposes this and supports that, he's later retweeting a real piece of s*** ranting about the character of the person murdered by the police. While he hides in the White House bunker there's no hope in justice for all, let alone the reform required to satisfy the demands of the protests that are now worldwide.

I'm still wondering. Have you learned anything? Or are you still with the deep state and fake news conspiracy blah blah obamagate bulls***? Because you really need to stop being a spoilt little brat and perhaps grow up a bit, because until you get over that little fantasy there's no real hope for you either, and you're probably the least hopeless of the f***wit chuds on this board. I've seen the occasional glint of shame from you at times.
06:59pm 06/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24684 posts
Have you learned anything? Or are you still with the deep state and fake news conspiracy blah blah obamagate bulls***?


You should watch the Rod Rosenstein testimony for proof of how corrupt the surveillance of the Trump campaign was. A truly dark day for the US Justice Department under Obama's presidency. And the interesting thing is the spying was done by very similar personality types to yours. A flawed moral superiority which they believed entitled them to break laws to further some righteous purpose.

As reprehensible as you may think Trump is he is still rocking the rule of law. If he loses he will leave (probably ungracefully), this ain't no dictatorship and all the hysterical crying can't make any of these CNN/MSNBC claims true.
08:14pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27075 posts
Next time just type no dips***.
09:26pm 06/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4138 posts
This has eroded trust to the point where serious people are now unable to believe anything that he says. When he's slumped at the podium slurring out his whatevers about he opposes this and supports that


Is he talking about Joe Biden?

Also serious people. Uh maze ing.

Serious people like fpot who is incapable of thinking in deeper resolution than

duh Russia attacked America. der trump committed crimes. and then duh covered it up by having his attorney general release a confidential special counsel report


So serious.
11:34pm 06/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27076 posts


The 'shhhh' is pretty special.
12:49pm 07/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1312 posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantrum

Freud linked the tantrums to an unconscious need for punishment driven by feelings of guilt
11:34pm 07/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27077 posts
Are you a little bit gun shy when it comes to writing complete sentences after your embarrassing little meltdown the other day?
02:47pm 08/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1313 posts
Typical discussion with fpot

- Provide some simple dot points.
- fpot ignores points
- fpot projects with a huge paragraph of drunken abusive rambling.

Went went through this too and you ignored it also. Why would any non-leftie not be happy with the state of affairs. Look at the scoreboard. The voting outcomes conflict with the sounds in your echo chamber... or has it all been bots and russian tampering Mr AntiConspiracy?
11:33am 09/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27078 posts
Just look at these guys. They'll never be able to give this up. I'd say it's probably the best they've felt since they got their first erection but then quickly found out no-one will ever touch it for them. People are suffering, people are unhappy and it's just such a cool change that for once it's not them. mmmmm dat feels good. Get it while it lasts because it ain't forever, and when your support base of automated social media accounts stops telling you what to think and amplifying bulls*** for you you're going to be all alone in more ways than just one.
06:57pm 09/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
870 posts
Yes, now its fpot suffering with what is clearly a combination of a mid-life crisis, crushing low IQ and no doubt a dawning realisation that his very very mediocre best years are behind him. I do in fact enjoy it when these kinds of people are unhappy and suffering.
04:32pm 10/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1314 posts
Got to break things down for fpot:

fpot: Do you agree the voting outcomes conflict with the sounds in your echo chamber?
06:12pm 10/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27079 posts
Uhh yes I do, that's why the UK and US are both graveyards atm. To it's credit, the LNP have done a good job and pending the results of the spread caused by recent protests I'd almost be ready to declare victory in Australia (due care to maintain the victory required of course).

Do you think that that this thread would be less of an echo chamber if it wasn't just the two frightened incels and daddy's little dumb c*** posting conspiracy numpty bulls*** all the time? It's hard not to create an echo when all you're talking to are three empty skulls. To be honest, it's actually starting to get a bit boring.

edit: like honestly, can you just put me out of my misery and say yes, other cultures are polluting our white heritage with their oggady boogidy-ness. I fully support social programs to curb the proliferation of this cultural pollution with the ultimate goal of creating a pure white society where we can all live in bliss safe from the brown menace. Because once I hear that I can just brand you as nazis and be done with it. The dishonest way you use the lies served up to you that trump et al are actually pursuing something that isn't what I just said above is what irks me.

Or just continue lying and I'll continue to tee off. Either way is good.
07:28pm 10/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27080 posts
Also,

They don't need to decide, it's just anyone they want to be a terrorist will now be a terrorist.
https://i.imgur.com/syg0fFJ.png

Anyone confused how this works?
07:45pm 10/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4139 posts
18 murders in 24 hours the most in 60 years, because police are tied up with looting "protestors". Actual black lives *do not matter to these people*.

edit: like honestly, can you just put me out of my misery and say yes, other cultures are polluting our white heritage with their oggady boogidy-ness. I fully support social programs to curb the proliferation of this cultural pollution with the ultimate goal of creating a pure white society where we can all live in bliss safe from the brown menace. Because once I hear that I can just brand you as nazis and be done with it. The dishonest way you use the lies served up to you that trump et al are actually pursuing something that isn't what I just said above is what irks me.


What is it about your sad little gold coast bouncer life that makes you so desperate for Nazis?
07:53am 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24685 posts
Utter lawlessness. Stay woke people, it's all that matters!
09:45am 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4140 posts
Better yet Dr Brix was saying the "protestors" have destroyed up to 70 coronavirus testing stations.

So not only are they actively spreading the virus they are actively undermining the countermeasures for the virus too.

And take a wild guess which community is gonna suffer most as a result? It will probably result in more black deaths than a decade's worth of police brutality, but middle class white tweens got to do the performative justice routine.

Vox got some column inches explaining how "defund the police" doesn't mean "defund the police".
09:57am 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27082 posts
Just checking in again, do you understand yet infi or are you still winning?
02:50pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4141 posts
Just checking in again, do you understand yet infi or are you still winning?


By this he means trump being president made a bunch of liberal tweens go and burn down black neighbourhoods to protest Trump's racism.
03:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24686 posts
Yes, I have learned, and am currently assessing which statues should be destroyed and popular culture icons cancelled in order to prevent further black single parenthood and black on black murder.
06:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27083 posts
It's the blacks fault!!!!
06:23pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24687 posts
I also plan to attend the next 1 hour mass protest to be organised during a dangerous pandemic but not assist those disadvantaged in any material way otherwise. It's doing "my little bit" to raise awareness.
06:34pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27084 posts
There's actually a really worthy discussion possible regarding the pros and cons of mass protest during a pandemic but not with dolts like you unfortunately. Here's one thing though, it would be far less dangerous if trump hadn't completely f***ed the handling of it resulting in 10000s of extra dead. Every person that dies as a result of that bungled response in these protests are his fault too.
06:41pm 11/06/20 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41484 posts
no no fpot you big silly, its the states governers fault!

all DRUMPF was trying to do was keep BIZNES running, because thats much more important than saving lives.
07:48pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24688 posts
you do realise Federal government has no control over states? Just like here. The New York Governor ordered COVID positive aged care patients be returned from hospital to their aged care homes, subsequently infecting and killing thousands of aged care residents. It's just horrific and had nothing to do with Drumpf. Riots and looting, all State Governors and City Mayors who control the Police and National Guard. Once again nothing to do with Federal government. Get educated.
07:57pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27085 posts
Everything bad happens because of not trump, everything good is because of yes trump. GET EDUCATED!
07:59pm 11/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24689 posts
Well it's that way in Federations. Switzerland is the same. Federal government's power is constrained by the Constitution. Don't let legal structures get in the way of your emotions.
08:05pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27086 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it? When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.
08:14pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4142 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it? When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.


What's most entertaining about that passage is almost all of it is a flat lie. But people like to wax lyrical about relationships with the truth.

But even granting the deranged dribble above, some how trump did all of that and the worst affected areas in the United states by far are run by democrats.

Texas and Florida have the same President, but a 10th the death toll.

Half of New York's deaths are going to be ultimately attributable to Cuomo's decisions about nursing homes, meaning fully a 6th of the total fatalities in US boil down to forcing nursing homes to take sick people. But drumpf or something.
09:21pm 11/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1315 posts
As I have previously explained fpot, I don't care for racial discrimination. I'd like our nation to attract the best immigrants it can. I don't care if they are green, orange or purple. Just the best. I understand we need to take in some charity cases. I'd prefer we moved the lever from "Anyone with an excuse" a little bit closer to "What can you offer our nation?".

Unlike your ridiculous and angry argument style I explain it in shades of grey and avoid absolutes. Absolutes are lazy generalisations.. like a racist might make.

Am I an incel or a daddys little thing?
09:53pm 11/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27088 posts
You mean like you've previously lied about. I remember the raw hatred displayed when you were talking about the Sri Lankan family seeking asylum. What made you angry enough to accidentally tell the truth that day? Friend-zoned again?
10:39pm 11/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4143 posts
How the supposed anti-racist responds to the single most violent day in Chicago in 60 years for blacks.

It's the blacks fault!!!!
Every person that dies as a result of that bungled response in these protests are his fault too.


Every extra person that dies from attending a mass gatherings while having been flat out told mass gatherings is the fault of the person who told them.

But better yet, maybe our resident f*****g morons can tell us how the "protestors" destroying coronavirus testing facilities is Trump's fault.
07:38am 12/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1316 posts
You're the one trying to make it about colour of skin fpot. They're que jumpers. Like I said, green orange, purple whatever. I think you might be the one applying stereotypes. Your perceptions are likely way off.
09:48pm 12/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27090 posts
You do realise 'queue jumpers' is an obvious dog whistle dumb people use when what they really mean are filthy browns who should go back to where they came from, right?
10:41pm 12/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4144 posts
filthy browns who should go back to where they came from, right?


Gee those racist slurs really do come easily to him don't they.

It's like he realises he can just say it anymore, but he really wants to. So if he says you think this he still gets to use his racist slurs. It's subtle like calling yourself anti-facist.
09:27am 13/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24690 posts
So trump's constant downplaying of the dangers during the most critical phase, he's complete failure to implement testing and contact tracing, his promotion of miracle cures, his lies about the dangers of the virus being exaggerated as democrat hoax, his defunding of critical departments despite warnings not to do so (and subsequent lying about it), his obstruction of facts by medical experts trying to report to the public and I could go on forever, had nothing to do with it?


Trump has mismanaged his areas of responsibility in relation to the COVID pandemic. The problem is that the raging dumpster fire of looting, civil unrest, police brutality and the extraordinary amplification of the outbreak in specific cities run by Democrat Mayors and Govenors, is 90% of the problem. A festering pustule that was there before COVID and before Trump was elected. The scenes broadcast on TV in the last month show the decline of American civilization. A bunch of anarchists can declare a section of a Democrat city a free state and the Democrat governor does NOTHING.

Holy s*** this is not the outback, this is in a major city. I don't see even the most piss poor Premier in Australia (Palaszczuk or Andrews) would tolerate a section of their capital city being overrun by anarchists.

When this is all over trump's failure will be pored over and studied for years before the full breadth of it is known. You keep defending him though, I know it makes you feel very comfortable.


America has shown that it gets locked down for 2-3 months and certain festering Democrat cities turn into Lord of the Flies. That's what will be studied over and over. How did America turn into a raging mob? And why did their State and Municipal authorities refuse to protect law abiding citizens?
04:50pm 13/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27091 posts
Mismanagement is what Cuomo did when he moved elderly people out of hospitals and back into aged care facilities. What trump did is more or less sabotage because he's afraid his miraculous economy would be affected by necessary COVID measures. There's a big difference. The main reason there was an extraordinary amplification in democrat run cities is because they're most populous. Not a 'festering pustule' as you put it (what?). Flyover states are having their turn now.

There was already roughly 100k dead from COVID before the riots/protests started. They were not in response to COVID measures but because the police murdered yet another black person and while justice did eventually did come (well, an arrest anyway) there's still infinity more arrests that need to be made. Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings against looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible? There was backlash against Milley, simply for stating that the American Military should be apolitical. Because when the military is no longer apolitical, what do you have?

No matter how you dance around it and avoid it because the truth is too hard for you to accept, what you're seeing now is the cheque trump wrote with all his lies and all his stirring of racial hatred and divide being cashed. It is absolutely exacerbated by COVID but it's only acting as a catalyst. You can only gaslight a population so long before they push back. trump needs to resign.
06:43pm 13/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4145 posts
Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings againstde. Meanwhile, trump was threatening extra judicial killings against looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible? looters and basically doing whatever was in his power to make things worse. See how General Milley apologised after trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible?


So trog, scooter or hogfather are you willing to push back against this level of retardation? Because he speaks for you until you say he doesn't.

Until you are willing to tell fpot he is a f*****g moron, you agree with trump used chemical weapons on American citizens.

Not forgetting trog developed a script to block being told high speed rail between Melbourne and Sydney doesn't and never will make economic sense (this is "toxic behaviour" in trogs world).
If you want to be blocked by trog tell him an $80 dollar ticket means you need to achieve a construction price of less that $13 dollars per km between Melbourne and Sydney to be economically viable and he can't get his panties out of a scrunch.

Meanwhile fpot accuses trump of chemical warfare, oh there is a reason fpot is called fpot.
08:02pm 13/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1317 posts
He is the one making it about skin colour when it has nothing to do with it.

There are lots of white pommy backpackers in detention centres for overstaying visas and they also...

should go back to where they came from, right


fpot has got an immature simple way of dealing with things. People who do not fit his beliefs are at the polar end of his beliefs. In his mind ALL of these people share common values.
02:44pm 14/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27092 posts
Are there a lot of white pommy backpackers who sought asylum in Australia kept in detention centres indefinitely for years who should go back where they came from? The fact that there are still people trying to downplay Australia's treatment of asylum seekers in the bile spitting way you did is troubling. Here it is Nmag, in case you've forgotten -

They are not refugees. They are liars seeking to jump the que and have tried to enter the country illegally. They are welcome to apply for immigration the legitimate way. Instead they broke Sri Lankan Law when they left their s***hole country, and they lied regarding their status. They should be deported and sent an invoice for costs in processing and hosting them. The invoicing should be highly publicised to discourage others from risking their lives on the high sea. God forbid the boat they were in may have sunk and harmed the innocent children who are not willing criminals like their dodgy 3rd world parents.


Those words you typed there are at the polar end of my beliefs. I don't know what possessed you to type them when you've put so much work into this 'just my beliefs' bulls*** facade but it must have been pretty significant. Your favourite My Little Pony was killed off or something?
03:14pm 14/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1318 posts
I forgot you believed in a world without borders. Yep, the white pommy backpackers from their 1st world s***holes as well.

It is all beliefs. It's not a case of you are right and someone else is wrong. You act like a bigot towards just about anyone who does not agree with your political views. You are further demonstrating a lack of respect for yourself throwing around racial terms like that. Feel the pity.
03:18pm 15/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27093 posts
Dude all I jive on here are trump supporters. Anyone who supports trump is at the polar end of my beliefs and for good reason. You're acting like the things I disagree with are small quibbles but to still be a trump supporter requires extreme ignorance, extreme prejudice and an extreme amount of lying to pretend you aren't a complete piece of s***. There's no discourse possible with people like that, meaning people like you. Whenever someone does try to engage one of your kind it's always met with dishonest lying bulls***. I've never once seen a truthful response. What makes you think anyone would ever take you seriously?
03:33pm 15/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4146 posts
The fact that there are still people trying to downplay Australia's treatment of asylum seekers in the bile spitting way you did is troubling
requires extreme ignorance, extreme prejudice and an extreme amount of lying to pretend you aren't a complete piece of s***.
trump used chemical weapons against citizens so he could get a photo of himself holding a bible?

Jive away in dreamland

I often wonder if people like fpot helped or hindered the refugee situation. In general it seems fair clear they hindered and badly.

Since 1998 there has been one parliament majoring won while supporting ending mandatory detention for boat arrivals (which has been Australian policy since the early 80's).

You'd think losing 6 from 8 elections would tell you something about whether you're moving the dial or not.

But the guy who says Trump used chemical weapons has an opinion about ignorance, prejudice and lying.

Just adorable.
02:49pm 18/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27094 posts
So I know we live in the post truth age and that most serious people are more or less desensitised by things that would once consume a weekly news cycle are now page seven blips, but Bolton's claims are alarming. trump endorsing Chinese concentration camps, soliciting Xi for help in the upcoming election plus everything else is truly extraordinary.

How will conspiracy numpties deal with this? Will they absorb this new information and perhaps think to themselves it's time to accept the fact that trump is an overwhelming force for bad? Or will the defensive mechanisms kick in, and they'll feast on the Russian troll farm twitter supplied lies about how Bolton is a disgruntled employee making up lies about his former boss who is actually really great!

I'm sort of torn between whether Bolton is a coward or just played it smart for some pretty sweet cash. His testimony would have changed nothing - the Senate were never going to convict no matter what. Not what I'd choose personally but I can see the temptation and how it would be a hard thing to resist.
08:07pm 18/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24691 posts
Trump refused to start a war with Iran like Bolton wanted and now Bolton writes a nasty fake book. Zzzzzz
08:13pm 18/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27095 posts
Bolton sure is a war warmongering piece of s*** but the key points in that book are a fabrication? Nonsense.

Do you remember the first time you denied reality? Was it a big moment for you like a hitman's first kill? Or was it just like a natural bodily function? If it was the former do you remember what it was? Something you knew that was true, but to accept it as true you'd need to adjust or update your world view in a way that is inconvenient. I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you. What makes this all worth it? What are you hoping for at the end? You still don't really think trump is going to make America 'great' do you?
08:22pm 18/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4147 posts
Trump refused to start a war with Iran like Bolton wanted and now Bolton writes a nasty fake book. Zzzzzz
--


Pretty clear why he wouldn't testify under oath now.

Do you remember the first time you denied reality? Was it a big moment for you like a hitman's first kill? Or was it just like a natural bodily function? If it was the former do you remember what it was? Something you knew that was true, but to accept it as true you'd need to adjust or update your world view in a way that is inconvenient. I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you. What makes this all worth it? What are you hoping for at the end? You still don't really think trump is going to make America 'great' do you?


You just got jived on infi. Is it sticky?

You reckon when trog talks about accepting the outcomes of elections do you think the Russia hoax floats through his brain?

Lot of people who are worried about Trump not respecting the outcome of an election seem to really have a thing for ginning up foreign interference claims.

trump endorsing Chinese concentration camps, soliciting Xi for help in the upcoming election plus everything else is truly extraordinary.

How will conspiracy numpties deal with this?


I mean this level of derangement shouldn't be possible.

Trump "endorses concentration camps" in secret talks but publically backs sanctions against china for Uyghur treatment. It's like the perfect crime.

Like is there any point at all at which you go "hey I wonder if I'm being told what I want to hear".
09:55pm 18/06/20 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24692 posts
I'm still curious about what the endgame is for you.
I love the irony of self-righteous types accusing others of collusion when they actually manipulated law enforcement and surveillance processes themselves, corruption at the highest levels of the incumbent government.

I love the irony of white activists for the disadvantaged espousing more discrimination, segregation and racism to redress historical wrongs.

I love how the left-wing liberals of Western society used to be freedom loving peaceful people but now triumph hate, intimidation, canceling, harassment, violent protest.

I love how Trump nonchalantly trotted into politics as a side gig and dismantled the entire two-party private society. He wins the MVP in in his rookie year brushing aside every political insider effortlessly and it DEVASTATED the Democrats who predicted a 99% Hillary win.

The end-game for me is to expose the faux caring left-wing politics of socialism as an ideology of selfish-interest, jealousy and hate. These activists whether they be BLM or climate change or Gay Pride, inevitably at the highest level pursue two things: power and wealth - just like everyone else. And this is the most glorious hypocrisy of them all.

Trump is just the man of the moment, he tapped the Zeitgeist.
11:51am 19/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4148 posts
The utter self assured self righteousness combined with obvious deep ignorance is very very enjoyable to watch.
11:56am 19/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27096 posts
So blah blah blah left-wing socialist deep state fake news conspiracy and oh boy they're so mean to us I just want to get even with them for saying how dumb I am all the time. Did you slam your dad's office door and turn off the lights after typing that one out?

Ever considered critically thinking just once and perhaps learning like, one thing? Have you ever actually learned one thing? It would be a watershed moment for you I reckon. Kind of like if your two incel buddies managed to have sex with a willing partner without paying. You'd learn that one thing, and then you'd learn another thing and so on. Aren't you sick of just saying and thinking what you're told to say and think?
12:25pm 19/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4149 posts
So blah blah blah left-wing socialist deep state fake news conspiracy and oh boy they're so mean to us I just want to get even with them for saying how dumb I am all the time. Did you slam your dad's office door and turn off the lights after typing that one out?


Gee it'd be really mean to point out that fpot is a middle aged single gold coast bouncer who is pathologically jealous of infi.

That would be beyond the pale of "forum banter".

Ever considered critically thinking just once and perhaps learning like, one thing? Have you ever actually learned one thing?


There it is.

The utter self assured self righteousness combined with obvious deep ignorance is very very enjoyable to watch.


Every damn time. So tasty. Fpot is so good a critical thinking he thinks Facebook memes are an attack on the nation.

How can we possibly compete with the dizzying intellect.
01:27pm 19/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27100 posts


How does the press gathering not burst out laughing? Maybe to actually hear something so ridiculous from a place where serious things used to be discussed by serious people actually makes you feel a little sick.

infi, I'm still a little stunned you're claiming Bolton's obviously true detailed accounts of trump's behaviour are a fabrication. I feel as though we're into some new stage of conspiracy numptitude here. What happens when the stories are corroborated and proven to be true? It's that situation again. I don't know whether you know the stories are true and are just clinging on for some reason or if you do actually believe your own bulls***. Again I'll never find out. I think it's the former though which is why I asked what it's all for which is apparently to strike back at the gay pride people for wanting more money and power. Sounds like a pretty legit reason for half a decade of truly bizarre behaviour and belief changes. Are we getting close to the bottom yet or are you an even bigger f***wit than I can imagine?
06:22am 20/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4150 posts
infi, I'm still a little stunned you're claiming Bolton's obviously true detailed accounts of trump's behaviour are a fabrication.


Oh a clearly selfserving paraphrase of what trump said from a Chinese interpreter for the Chinese delegation is "obviously true".

Pro tip corroboration which starts with "an anonymous source says" isn't corroboration.

Also
How does the press gathering not burst out laughing? Maybe to actually hear something so ridiculous from a place where serious things used to be discussed by serious people actually makes you feel a little sick.


Jim Acosta a serious person discussing serious things. Good one.
01:25pm 20/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1319 posts
What a d*******.
06:27pm 20/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27101 posts
Well I'm off for dinner (lamb shanks)) with my busty blonde blue eyed brainiac wife who earns an obscene income.
Why yes that is how a normal truthful person speaks.

It's pretty obvious you'd love to prove me wrong on that one and make a fool out of me. There's plenty of ways to do that without doxxing yourself if you were actually being truthful. Funny that you haven't.
06:59pm 20/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27102 posts
Nice coward edit f***wit.

Trump: "You're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down please.'


Just gonna update more or less sabotage to literally sabotage.
09:47pm 21/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
871 posts
Things fpot can't deal with:

- infi having more success in his little toe than he will ever have
- outcomes of special counsel reports that contradict his sad narrative
- the reality that he is a middle aged bouncer with no future

and now

- people editing their own forum posts

What a nightmare it must be in that pin head
08:58am 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27103 posts
I have been owned.
01:48pm 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27104 posts
Like, it would be droll for me to mention that trump had his corrupt AG obstruct justice for him AGAIN by firing SDNY US Attorney Berman. Everyone gets it, trump is committing flagrantly criminal acts in plain sight. Shut up we already know etc

Background in case anybody does care
02:24pm 22/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4151 posts
I can see where fpot gets it from. If you just say "authoritarian" over and over it must be true.

My god the hysterics in that article.

Flynn is going to be acquited, and his case is the example of authoritariansim, not it's acquitial. The article is the literal reverse of reality.
02:42pm 22/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27105 posts
Usually I can tell how egregious trump's criminal acts have been by how long my little chief cleric reply guy takes to add another thick black line to the thread for me to ignore and this one was rather snappy.

Since I'm here, trump's elite team of cyber specialists were hoodwinked by a bunch of tiktok teenagers. Imagine if they were targeted by say, an advanced state-based actor that specialises in cyber warfare. I reckon they'd stand up well. Setting my watch for this one as well ;)
02:49pm 22/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4152 posts
Usually I can tell how egregious trump's criminal acts have been by how long my little chief cleric reply guy takes to add another thick black line to the thread for me to ignore and this one was rather snappy.


That's not how "ignoring" works.

It's entertaining to me to watch an air headed dogmatic moron shriek ever more hysterically Trump is Hitler, based on ever more idiotic and straw clasping "evidence".
03:48pm 22/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
872 posts
Imagine if they were targeted by say, an advanced state-based actor that specialises in cyber warfare. I reckon they'd stand up well. Setting my watch for this one as well ;)


You mean like how the DNC email servers were hacked by "advance state-based" actors lol.

You literally don't remember what happened 5 minutes ago, do you?
09:56am 23/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1320 posts
You're not worth the effort fpot. You appear to be a loser with a chip on your shoulder.
11:59am 23/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27106 posts
Omg, a bubuubut her emails post. That gets me feeling all nostalgic and s***. Thanks for that.

lol, 'not worth the effort'. Makes me think back to those multiple giant wall of text meltdowns. The problem with you is your lies suck because you're really dumb. Keep trying though.

edit: oops. You're talking about a different email thing from four years ago. Yeah the democrats sure are s***. What of it?
01:33pm 23/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4153 posts
Naw the Queen of meltdowns(to the point he's too fragile to read why his Russia fantasies are deranged) has an opinion about meltdowns.
08:55pm 23/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
873 posts
fpot mocks Trump admin for being too weak to protect against "advanced state-based actors", forgets he blamed Trump for Russia allegedly hacking the DNC email servers, complains about whataboutism because he totally misses that the point is that he is a retard.

You'd struggle to write a more incompetent Looney Tunes antagonist.
11:35am 24/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27107 posts
You're really scraping that barrel for things to attack me with aren't you little buddy? Are you jealous that I get fresh new unprecedented acts of stupidity and incompetence to run with on a daily basis whereas you're permanently stuck in 2016? Must be frustrating.
12:50pm 24/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1321 posts
Ohh why would I make stuff up? You invent enough about me all by yourself. Apparently I'm one of many aliases in this thread, which is BS.

A review of ABC News Australia:



ABC is funded mainly by the Australian government and in 2018 funding for ABC was cut by $84m. The website does not feature advertising.

Analysis / Bias

In review, ABC News uses emotionally loaded headlines pertaining to US Politics such as this “Donald Trump kicked off his re-election campaign by making socialism into 2020’s dirty word.” ABC News has a section under world news dedicated to US news titled “Trump’s America”, with most stories being Anti-Trump. When it comes to national politics, ABC News publishes articles with loaded headlines and criticizes the center-right government “Scott Morrison said all the right things after Christchurch attack, but his history tells another story.”

Overall, we rate ABC News Australia, Left-Center Biased based on story selection that moderately favors the Left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and being a certified fact checker. (12/9/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 3/24/2019)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/abc-news-australia/

ABC contributes to TDS
05:46pm 24/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27108 posts
Ohh why would I make stuff up?
Because you're a compulsive liar and narcissist.
05:59pm 24/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4154 posts
Are you jealous that I get fresh new unprecedented acts of stupidity and incompetence to run with on a daily basis whereas you're permanently stuck in 2016?


Sounds like a good argument until you remember the newspaper that said Barr is a fascist is also deeply concerned aboutNazi bronies

There is just a chance such a newspaper isn't serious about Nazis.
08:39pm 24/06/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1322 posts
you're a compulsive liar and narcissist.


You're making it up as you go.

Do you really believe you don't have TDS?
12:14pm 26/06/20 Permalink
Vash
6302 posts


muh freedom of speech guyz
07:26am 30/06/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
874 posts
Is it hard lifting your head up off your pillow every morning Vash with that pencil neck of yours?
08:07am 30/06/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4155 posts
muh freedom of speech guyz


Muh "peaceful protestors" peacefully setting fire to a church.
08:42am 30/06/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27110 posts
graph showing the drastic rise in US COVID cases compared to other previous hotspots that make them look tame in comparison
detailed multi-confirmed reports of trump either wilfully ignoring or just not bothering to read intel about Russian bounties placed on US military and hilarious videos of the pretty girl lying about it and declaring trump the most well informed person on the planet
screenshot of trump retweeting a video of some soon to be dead of COVID guy yelling white power calling them great people that was up for three hours
reports on trump attempting to ban two books in two weeks that are uncomplimentary of the regime. This is what actual banning of books look like for those who were confused


and so on.

Once upon a time it used to be kind of fun to gloat about how s*** trump is because it was interesting to see what lengths the chuds would go to to buy themselves time before they're forced to say 'oops'. If the best the USA could do with their sputtering, disjointed leaderless initial response was the catastrophe we've already witnessed what can we expect this time? At least for the first round you had a mostly compliant population. Now you have massive protests that wouldn't have happened if the police would have taken just a small break from murdering black people coupled with a giant section of people who seem to think the virus is some sort of hoax, or something not to be feared who treat not wearing a mask or taking basic cautionary steps a badge of honour.

It's just all really dark and hopeless. The absolute best case scenario is that Biden gets elected so the rotting at least can stop, but what then? No way has he got the moxie to reverse the situation and it's impossible to know just how bad it will be by November.
06:58pm 01/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1324 posts

Those nasty capitalists. We need more government control.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-01/bunnings-stops-selling-victorian-native-timber/12412328

Bunnings stops selling native timber from state-owned VicForests after court ruling


These communists know how to enjoy nice weather. Look at them laughing and dancing.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12281532-3x2-xlarge.jpg
10:06pm 01/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
875 posts
In the heat of TDS, fpot goes on to support a neo-con warmonger Bolton because orange man bad. Stunning and brave.

How many unarmed black people vs unarmed white people per capita are killed by police, fpot? Do you even know that incredibly basic statistic?
08:29am 02/07/20 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
4156 posts
You would think after 4 years of anonymous leaks about rascally Russians unraveling usually within days, even someone as flat out retarded as fpot *might* get wise to the trick.

But apparently not.

I love how we get lectured about how Trump might not accept the outcome of the election and he "paving the way for it now" but somehow, screaming Russia will steal the election through the cunning use of Facebook ads does seem to count as "not accepting the outcome of elections".
10:12am 02/07/20 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
27111 posts
Can't really help but notice that this thread is a bit of a cycle of posting terrible Overton window breaking s*** trump does on almost a weekly basis followed by weak attempts to deflect by the same people every time. Yeah I'm aware of that statistic dazed and provided it's true I find it to be a highly acceptable murder rate so yeah all good what was I thinking. All is well!
01:18pm 02/07/20 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
876 posts
NYC announces defunding of police to the tune of $1 billion, 100+ people immediately shot. This is why it's funny when you make retarded claims about how much you care about police brutality.
09:49am 03/07/20 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1325 posts
The cycle continues. fpot is due for his 3rd rage quit and then creeps back to this thread cause he can't help himself. The TDS's in his head are too much to contain.
01:43pm 05/07/20 Permalink
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