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Political Thread 3
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24103 posts

Should we start a new political thread and potentially run a pool for how many posts until fpot returns?

I enjoyed Trump's style around the Putin meeting. Trump is like smoke, like a greasy pig. Very hard to nail down. This is super frustrating for the Deep State - they don't like a puppet without strings.

I have been enjoying this youtube channel. She reviews the body language of politicians/commentators and sees through all their bulls***.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7n8r27jRnjpYpfyEfBOLFw


09:54am 18/07/18 Permalink
system
Internet
--
09:54am 18/07/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9620 posts
Honestly, I've lost track of who leans which way because there's so much bats*** crazy in the thread it all just becomes a mush of muddled names. The crazy is on both sides, that's for sure.
11:57am 18/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3256 posts
potentially run a pool for how many posts until fpot returns?


Give it a week.

He will *have to* tell us all about the latest proof of a fascist nazi take over of the US/display his total ignorance of how the Nazi's came to power. Probably won't be able to go too long without calling someone a racist either.

The crazy is on both sides, that's for sure.


My personal favourite of the week was the unironically named "thinkprogress" claiming Justice Kavanaugh being appointed to the Supreme Court will end the right to vote.

That's special, and not like special K.
01:20pm 18/07/18 Permalink
Vash
5802 posts
Bernie laying down the burns

https://i.imgur.com/PdbrpjE.jpg
05:30pm 18/07/18 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4657 posts
I have been enjoying this youtube channel. She reviews the body language of politicians/commentators and sees through all their bulls***.

I was curious, scientific analysis it isn’t, but if red pill punditry with a liberal dose of armchair psychology is your bag then take a look
06:56pm 18/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7875 posts
I'd rather s*** in my hands and clap than start another political thread.
07:54pm 18/07/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
417 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
12:54pm 19/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
4341 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
07:38pm 19/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1040 posts
I've been trying to tell you for months. I'm fpot!
12:38am 20/07/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39630 posts
let's see how long we can make this thread go without it turning into everyone just posting 10 minute videos of their various favourite talking heads to rebut other 10 minute videos
09:03am 20/07/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18541 posts
I'm just going to pop this here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/pill-testing-splendour-in-the-grass/10008522

Pill (and tablet) testing works, in several ways. It certainly doesn't give the message that it's OK to take drugs leading to more people doing it, which is the major fear of the typical political Right. So there is little reason not to support a policy of pill testing from either major side of government.
10:09am 20/07/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
418 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: whining about moderation
Send Private Message
10:12am 20/07/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18542 posts

I have been enjoying this youtube channel. She reviews the body language of politicians/commentators and sees through all their bulls***.


My curiosity is peaked, people watching is an enjoyable activity. Political based people watching is pretty boring, most of the more media savvy polies are pretty closed in their vulnerability and shut down most of their expressive body language so it's not as fun and it ends up being mostly making a lot of assumptions to fill the gaps (more so than when people are more free with their expression).
So the curiosity is about what assumptions she is making and if she presents them as factual or not.
10:14am 20/07/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39631 posts
How about instead of discussing the same old stuff, we come up with a base set of rules for a new Political Thread so we can actually try to have a fun and interesting discussion? I enjoy discussing politics (ironically mostly with infi) but lately it's just gotten too adversarial and predictable.

ideas:
- we (roughly) limit conversations to the political news of the day. Sometimes topics will be interesting enough to keep talking about for a while. But there's always something new and there's few of us here that we should be able to discuss them meaningfully in the short term.
- we (roughly) exclude extremist points of view. So much online discussion these days is based on what some nutjob said, regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum. I think this is the biggest problem facing media in general and it'd be nice to have somewhere where we can avoid the Latest Dumb Thing to happen.
- any videos posted need at least one reasonable written sentence of accompaniment per minute of video. I have a weird anti-video bias because they're so f*****g boring to watch. We've always had a "don't just post links without explanation" vibe going on because that's what Twitter is for and I think this is a reasonable requirement; if you want people to sit through a 10 minute video to get some point across you should have to put in enough effort to justify by explaining what's in the video and how it relates to the conversation and your point of view.

Other suggestions appreciated. I have no idea what would work. I do not moderate this forum much any more outside of more or less random cherry picking but happy to spend a bit more effort on it if it will help (re)create a better forum environment.
11:24am 20/07/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9621 posts
Can we tack a rule on to that?

- If your argument needs to resort to insulting the poster for their point of view, their opinion, or stating facts, you're gone. No ifs, not buts, get lost, you're not welcome here. Because this is why people can no longer reveal what they really thing about situations, the people who simply resort to name-calling and personal attacks over a person sharing a point of view, interpretation, opinion or suggestion.
01:26pm 20/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3260 posts
If your argument needs to resort to insulting the poster for their point of view, their opinion, or stating facts, you're gone. No ifs, not buts, get lost, you're not welcome here.


I'm on board with that if it's applied evenly and we are clear on what constitutes an insult.

As for

we (roughly) exclude extremist points of view. So much online discussion these days is based on what some nutjob said, regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum. I think this is the biggest problem facing media in general and it'd be nice to have somewhere where we can avoid the Latest Dumb Thing to happen.


Can we see an example of extremist points of view?

Finally Godwin's law needs to be enforced with rigour.
02:08pm 20/07/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9622 posts
Working backwards from the previous thread over just the last three pages, the following are all examples of what should be bannable offenses irrespective of the poster, the criteria being posts that attack the poster not the argument or the idea:

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=10020#10049

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#10018

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#10015

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#10014

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#10002

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#9997

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9960#9970

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9960#9966

You know, now that I've had to go back and generate that list - because I usually just look at posts and don't notice or even look at who the author is - it's pretty clear you've been by far the worst offender of this issue.
03:09pm 20/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3261 posts
You know, now that I've had to go back and generate that list - because I usually just look at posts and don't notice or even look at who the author is - it's pretty clear you've been by far the worst offender of this issue.


So let's just work through an example shall we Raven?

Explain to me why post 9997 is banable and post 9995 which it is plainly and correctly (in perfect accordance with your reasoning for the rule) deriding isn't.

Im perfectly happy to be polite and I'm serious about following the rule. But if people decide they don't want to play that game and they want to play another game well I'm not going to walk the high road.
04:09pm 20/07/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24105 posts
I agree that personal insults are very unproductive. Some posts are plainly ridiculous and I don't think that it's bannable to simply point out that the content is ridiculous and as a result there is a serious cause for concern about the poster's mental health.
04:34pm 20/07/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9623 posts
Explain to me why post 9997 is banable and post 9995 which it is plainly and correctly (in perfect accordance with your reasoning for the rule) deriding isn't.

Because for the examples I've only skimmed over in a basic sense, I've only used examples where people are plainly and clearly making comments about other people in the thread. It's not to say other threads don't fall in to other unacceptable behavior - like just going nuts on the namecalling of other people - but when you look at merely just people calling other participants of the discussion names and labels, they're all covered there. And they're not okay.
06:45pm 20/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7877 posts
We'll call it the anti-slagging rule .. or the anti-fpot rule.
06:45pm 20/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3262 posts
Because for the examples I've only skimmed over in a basic sense, I've only used examples where people are plainly and clearly making comments about other people in the thread.


You didn't include a single one of fpot's posts, and he makes no other kind of post.

you did include a post by infi post #100002 which says the following

making history through retardation.


Who was that targeted at?

I'm perfectly happy to defend every single word I post in that thread, and I chose who I insulted carefully. There are two criteria, if you insult people, or if you persist in making ridiculous arguments which have no basis in fact (like true communism has never been tried, or attempting to psychoanalysis someone you have no actual idea about).

Now lets take another example. The US gun control debate. if you're position is that only an uniformed idiot could support the existence of the second amendment, in my book you're insulting people and you should brace for impact. The reality is 5 justices of the supreme court of the united states disagree with you, and let me be further frank, no-one and i mean absolutely no-one on this forum knows more about the organization of public power and the proper checks and balances (which the 2A is) than those people. 4 justices do not, and no-one and I mean absolutely no-one of this forum knows more about the organization of public power and the proper checks and balances (which the 2A is) than those people either. The only reasonable conclusion to draw from that situation is that 1) the debate is dealing with incredibly difficult issues in which there are no easy answers and probably only sub-optimal trade offs; and 2) reasonable minds may disagree.

Now I am yet to see the person on this forum who doesn't appeal to a lazy idiotic stereo type of a gun owner (southerner named Cletus) when discussing this issue on the pro gun control side.

I don't particularly want to discuss gun control (and I am pro gun control for the record), it is an example, but I will say this, if you don't know what heller is and stands for, I don't care about your opinion on the matter, and if you go on to say that rednecks are holding back progress on the issue, I'm going to insult you because you damn well started it.

So I will follow the rule that you suggest because I actually agree more or less completely with your reasoning. but only if we take it seriously.
08:40pm 20/07/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24106 posts
In terms of bannable, surely the post must either be grossly offensive or inappropriate personal flaming. General sounding off is what forums are about. Don't be so precious.
08:47pm 20/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7878 posts
Is 'triggering' likely to result in nukage?
09:14pm 20/07/18 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6619 posts
I'm offended and feel that being called 'precious' is a personal and direct attack on my person. So ban Infi kthx. Also, fpot hasn't even posted in this thread (yet) and already two people are s***ting on him. I'm not saying he wouldn't be doing the same (lets face it, it's likely) but it's funny you both saying 'but but but fpot!'

What about banning "What-aboutism's" Trog?

Also, if we're not allowed to talk about extremists, does that also rule out politicians that take lumps of coal into Parliament? Or BCC members that live on house boats?
It would have to include media tarts like Bolt and Waleed.

If I say 'Turnbull was a coward for not fully supporting Marriage Equality' and someone echos back 'Yeah, but what about Gillard and Rudd!? they didn't either' (specifically referencing 2 people that have no current skin in the game) then you get a break. Now if there's a Policy that Turnbull and Shorten both have the same views on (kissing Trumps arse) it should be fair play.


The trouble with any/all of these rules (bar a few very minor exceptions) is that there's way too much grey area and you'll have whingers saying "You banned me for my post but theirs is worse!" so you'd have to be willing to put up with selective modding, which I can't imagine is a fun task.

Plus, even though I don't post much, and mainly lurk these days, reading some of the posters screech can be entertaining. It's just not worth joining the conversation because in the thousands of political posts here, you could probably count on 1 hand where someone has changed their view and the other hand where someone has conceded to absolute evidence, without trying to hand wave it and push on with their agenda anyway.
10:08pm 20/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3263 posts
Also, fpot hasn't even posted in this thread (yet) and already two people are s***ting on him. I'm not saying he wouldn't be doing the same (lets face it, it's likely) but it's funny you both saying 'but but but fpot!'


Well let's not pretend he isn't the elephant in the room.

There isn't a single post of his in that last thread that isn't insulting someone. There also isnt a single post of his which deals with a substantive point. It's just a conga line of s*** sprayed at a keyboard, but it doesn't get nuked. I agree it's entertaining to watch some repeat hyperbolic talking points while thinking they've got it going on in political thought. But it's also a primary source of the issue you point out that nobody gets their mind changed.

Hence the statement I'll follow it if it's applied evenly and we are clear on what an insult is.
07:24am 21/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1041 posts
I believe many of fpot's personal attacks were not tolerable, and Trog condoning them was a demonstration of his bias. I think arguing the issue is good but attacking the person is poor form. Towards the end of the last thread I applied some personal attacks, but I recon I suffered far more than I gave out prior to applying insults to where they were coming from.

Even Trog with his term 'dumb'. If he is a moderator, I think he should just stay out of making comments or have another account for it. Having a person who is possibly respected making left wing comments as moderator is the reason I am even here. The balance needs to occur. Naive people need to know that there are intelligent respected people who oppose the views of the moderator and the vocal minority who support socialist and communiast views.

At the extreme end of the 'term' spectrum we have "cuck" and "nazi". There is no need for either. Count up each and I'm confident we will see "nazi" has been applied far more than 'cuck'.

I most likely still have a 18000000 second post limit, with no explanation.

The reason fpot is mentioned is because he was getting away with very inappropriate behaviour. The reason? Because Trog is biased.
09:50am 21/07/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24107 posts
Nmag I think you will find with his absence it will be a lot more pleasant around here.

There should be no sacred cows.
10:54am 21/07/18 Permalink
G-R0nk
Sunshine Coast, Queensland
37 posts
has anyone still got that picture? 8)
12:48pm 21/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7879 posts
I'll just leave this bunger here.

12:59pm 21/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3264 posts
Gees he can't go five minutes can he.

The US setting up anti ballistic missile defences in Ukraine is a provocative act, and it's all the US's fault.

Managed not to mention that Russia invaded Ukraine, stole a bunch of land, and shot down a passenger airliner murdering hundreds of people. That's not provocative. Setting up defences of an ally is.

Anyway thank you for your very thoughtful video slaps. Really made me think.
01:20pm 21/07/18 Permalink
Vash
5803 posts
Chomsky knows the score. Shame he won't be around much longer.
01:40pm 21/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7880 posts
^ Achievement Unlocked!
01:40pm 21/07/18 Permalink
Vash
5804 posts
Glad to be of service. Check out some more of Chomsky's docos. Like manufacturing consent.
01:52pm 21/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3265 posts
^ Achievement Unlocked!


I loled
02:37pm 21/07/18 Permalink
BiKESEAT
Brisbane, Queensland
394 posts
Don't make any rules for a new thread, I had a great time looking every few days for a laugh.

For the record I agree fpot was by far the worst for personal attacks when someone didn't agree with his pc-lbgti-free-money-for-everyone view of the world.
06:11pm 21/07/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21548 posts
You have to be taking the piss raven, fpot was always the one starting the personal attacks
07:21pm 21/07/18 Permalink
G-R0nk
Sunshine Coast, Queensland
39 posts
09:46am 22/07/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24108 posts
Is anyone going to Lauren Southern Sunday night in Brisbane? (I am.) Or have you gone to one of the other shows?

Melbourne really seems to attract that loony left protester element.

04:36pm 22/07/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7881 posts
Everyone calls her a racialist nazi. I just think she is hawt.
09:40pm 22/07/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
630 posts
How about instead of discussing the same old stuff, we come up with a base set of rules for a new Political Thread so we can actually try to have a fun and interesting discussion?


Don't forget to post limit people you don't agree with. Should have been at the top of your list and I'm surprised it wasn't.

In the same vein I am surprised you haven't at least given fpot a perfunctory post limit so you'd at least have the appearance of being unbiased. Same goes with Raven's hilariously cherry-picked list of bannable posts. You guys are absolute works of art.
10:39am 23/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3266 posts
I just think she is hawt.


Careful you don't want to catch racialist Nazim.
06:17pm 23/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1042 posts
Get rekt Raven, this is me quoting Vash or fpot.

http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=3488653&startid=9990#10018

I'm not a fan of naming calling in arguments and you will see me explaining that over and over in the thread as insults rain from Trog, Vash, and fpot while Trog condones it.
04:44pm 24/07/18 Permalink
G-R0nk
Sunshine Coast, Queensland
42 posts
https://www.worldgallery.co.uk/art-print/babies-collection-spaghetti-head-82310
05:51pm 25/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1043 posts
08:40pm 25/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3268 posts
08:17pm 30/07/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24113 posts
I laughed my ass off about that. They are stuck in the "denial" stage of grief.
08:24pm 30/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1044 posts
There was a strong correlation between stress levels and electronic news consumption.
symptoms include feeling a loss of control and helplessness, and fretting about what's happening in the country and spending excessive time on social media
What's been called "Trump Anxiety Disorder" has been on the rise in the months following the election, according to mental-health professionals from across the country who report unusually high levels of politics-related stress in their practices


Interesting article. Would be great to see some video of counselling sessions where the patient describes "feeling triggered". The doctor could ask "But how can he get you here in Australia?" He would certainly recommend reducing the reading and watching of Trump hate content.
09:39pm 30/07/18 Permalink
Vash
5806 posts
"But how can he get you here in Australia?"


I suppose you missed the part of him threatening Nuclear Armageddon.
It still continues to amaze me how much a blind eye is turned to Trump simply because he's triggering their political opponents.
11:43pm 30/07/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3269 posts
I suppose you missed the part of him threatening Nuclear Armageddon.


Followed by

It still continues to amaze me how much a blind eye is turned to Trump simply because he's triggering their political opponents.


It's a new rhetorical technique in which you prove you opponents point with out realising it.

Another more plausible explanation is that people like you have spent two years working yourselves into a rich creamy froth of neverending overreaction and you're buying you're own bulls***.
07:29am 31/07/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1045 posts
Vash, can you please link to the article where he is "threatening" to bring where we live into "Nuclear Armageddon"? Which article are you referring to?

or are you just exaggerating again? Exaggeration won't help with hysteria, we need to keep things in perspective,
05:52pm 01/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24115 posts
Exaggerating Armageddon. Classic TDS symptom.
06:03pm 01/08/18 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6621 posts
That's a good question actually, what's the nuclear fallout if the USA was to bomb the s*** out of Iran/N.Korea. How many other allies/countries will it affect?

Also, if you expand 'where we live' to, I don't know, this place we call Earth. Isn't a moot point saying that him not bombing us directly wouldn't affect us? Surely, given our governments track record, any war started by the US is going to have a f***tonne of impact on Australians and our troops? If he does send bombs flying, there's a good chance someone will retaliate. How far can one nutter sitting on the second biggest nuclear arsenal go with his weapons platform?

That's totally putting aside the collateral damage to those countries themselves, which IMO is not something you should put aside. Or do their innocent lives not matter simply because they're not Australians?
06:16pm 01/08/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
631 posts
That's a good question actually, what's the nuclear fallout if the USA was to bomb the s*** out of Iran/N.Korea. How many other allies/countries will it affect?

Also, if you expand 'where we live' to, I don't know, this place we call Earth. Isn't a moot point saying that him not bombing us directly wouldn't affect us? Surely, given our governments track record, any war started by the US is going to have a f***tonne of impact on Australians and our troops? If he does send bombs flying, there's a good chance someone will retaliate. How far can one nutter sitting on the second biggest nuclear arsenal go with his weapons platform?

That's totally putting aside the collateral damage to those countries themselves, which IMO is not something you should put aside. Or do their innocent lives not matter simply because they're not Australians?


You do what they did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Detonate half a kilometre above ground and minimise fallout.
06:56pm 01/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5807 posts
Thats right Scooter.
Many a decision the U.S makes, Australia is affected.
There's a reason the doomsday clock is closest to midnight it's been since WW2, and it's because of Trump's presidency
07:27pm 01/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3270 posts
You're going to be frankly staggered to find out I disagree scooter.

The starting point in any talking of nuclear exchange has to be an assessment of the actual likelihood of it happening and not the fevered dreams of the delusional.

I'm going to make a bold claim. There will be no nuclear exchange with either NK or Iran under Trump.

the talk of nuclear Armageddon is delusional. Full Stop.
09:26pm 01/08/18 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10653 posts
If someone is going to nuke the US they will be throw one at Pine Gap as well.
It is a critical piece of their geolocation and spy satelite network.
04:29pm 02/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24117 posts
They fly the drone strikes on schools hospitals weddings etc from there too.
04:32pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1046 posts
There is a reason the doomsday clock is closest to midnight it's been since WW2, and it's because of Trump's presidency


Oh Vash, the clock has been like that way before Trump was around.

Again, Vash, can you link to the article regarding Trump threatening Nuclear Armageddon on Australia? I note that you have not. Are you exaggerating?

Who did he threaten Nuclear Armageddon on? Can you link to that article, if you can't find the one regarding Australia?

If you can't find that article, are you interpreting 'fire and fury' from weeks ago as Nuclear Armageddon?

Come on, post some of the hate-information your news feeds give you. The ones where you circle around and form a bond with other like thinkers in self righteous hatred.

When Pine Gap goes up will that be Nuclear Armageddon?

TDS, it's out there.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dji_82fXcAA1VsQ.jpg
05:26pm 02/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6560 posts
Scooter you can see real world impacts of nuke detonations using this tool https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Created by the nuclear science/weapons flair at /r/askhistorians. It's pretty neat.
05:54pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6622 posts
Who did he threaten Nuclear Armageddon on?


North Korea "I have a Bigger Button" is still a live tweet. It was mostly only implied against Iran though, not a literal nuclear threat.
For what it's worth i do agree with PornoPete, I don't think it will actually happen, there's far to many checks that one unhinged person wouldn't be able to pass.

Well, except claiming that his presidency has no affect on Australians. If you believe that you're being obtuse or are rather short sighted. We've already been affected simply as it's given rise to some groups that (totally only IMO) are a determent to where I would like to see Australia go.

It's pretty neat.

Could be worse I guess.
https://i.imgur.com/3Yl0NUf.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/Wh7nmJH.jpg





I wonder what's worse, ramming people with a car or killing 6 and injuring 19.
Still, posting the actions of a random crazy person (Lady ramming her car, or 19 year old going on a mass killing spree) is a pretty poor way to support your political argument. Yes, I get the irony of me posting both the link to the killings and that statement.
06:23pm 02/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3271 posts
For what it's worth i do agree with PornoPete, I don't think it will actually happen, there's far to many checks that one unhinged person wouldn't be able to pass.


I think the third clause in that sentence is where we part company.

I mean this quite literally, I see no evidence whatsoever that Trump does not fully comprehend the consequences of using nuclear weapons, nor have I ever seen it.

He bloviates on twiiter. But so what. that's pretty much what twiiter is for as far as I can see.

The gap between that and the policy discussions that would actually take place is so massive, no serious person could possibly conflate them. the fact a lot of people do says more about them than Trump (which I note you do say it's not literal).

but this is why I dont think its a good question
06:50pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6623 posts
So you're saying that everything Trump does, says and acts out in public is... an act? He's playing the 'character' of 'Donald Trump the crazy person'?
While behind closed doors you think he's a more reserved strategist?

Then yes, we most definitely part company there. There's no evidence to suggest that being the case, but plenty of leaks to suggest that he is indeed quite crazy and stupid.
07:18pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
2229 posts
When you made a new thread, you should have split it into US politics and the rest.

This latest concentration of power sounds pretty good here.

07:59pm 02/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3272 posts
So you're saying that everything Trump does, says and acts out in public is... an act? He's playing the 'character' of 'Donald Trump the crazy person'?


No I'm saying that the trash talk is genuine and helps make people underestimate him.

I don't particularly care about leaks because as we have now seen the people doing the leaking have their own agendas to push. I'd invite you to examine Andy McCabe on this front.

The reason I don't think he is stupid or crazy is the policy that gets implemented has so far been pretty sound.

NK being an example. As has been his handling of Syria.

And for all the s*** printed about Helsinki policy toward Russia remains strong in terms of sanctions and geopolitical strategy. For example pressuring Germany over the Nord II pipeline puts pressure on Russia.

If you can start pointing to significant policy changes I'm all ears.
08:03pm 02/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24118 posts
Australian intelligence services are monitored by an independent inspector-general.

Disclosing state secrets has always, and will always be an offense so no s*** Sherlock. Don't like that? Go to a country that has no secrets because they have no government.
08:07pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4658 posts
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean Trump isn't after you
11:33pm 02/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1047 posts
11:57am 03/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5808 posts
10:00pm 03/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7882 posts
10:41pm 03/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3273 posts
Naw bless your little heart vash. Another bunch of books you've never read
09:23am 04/08/18 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10654 posts
They fly the drone strikes on schools hospitals weddings etc from there too.

No doubt intended to be sarcastic. But yes they also control drones from there (Snowden + multiple sources). Usually the spy type but they do everything...

There is a reason Australia was excluded from Trumps various trade bans. Trump initially included us, but we suddenly got excluded because...

Keep in mind Canada copped sanctions and they play in their MLB, NBA and MLS... and have open borders.

Pine Gap covers a third of the globe including large chunks of China and Russia. Awesome coverage of the south china sea... you know where the Chinese are deploying large amounts of ordinance.

Clear skys. Right location (Tropic of Capricorn)...

It will be the first thing nuked in Australia.
07:23pm 04/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6561 posts
Obes isn't wrong re pine gap. I hope people appreciate how hard it is for me to agree with obes.
07:27pm 04/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24119 posts
No doubt intended to be sarcastic. But yes they also control drones from there (Snowden + multiple sources).


no i was being serious. Pine Gap has a large American population.
08:14pm 04/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3274 posts
Obes isn't wrong re pine gap. I hope people appreciate how hard it is for me to agree with obes.


I appreciate. But. are we talking about NK or China?

Is there some reason pine gap would need a *nuclear strike*? Would China be willing to accept the US retaliation?

Again I will reiterate if anyone is talking as though this is an actual risk it falls to them to show *on policy grounds* why this is a likelihood that should be considered.

If you're going to hitch your wagon to tweets, well I hope you have a good way of getting egg off your face. Though I doubt you know you need it.

Let me amplify the hysterics here.

Can anyone name an official state policy which openly acknowledges a rogue state getting a nuclear weapon? I can. But it ain't trumps policy.

if people want to talk about nuclear game theory well then I think a mighty throat clearing is in order. Because otherwise if you are talking about this now (but said nothing in the past six years about the potential changes to the game theory ), you are without exception a hysterical d*******.
09:02pm 04/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3275 posts
here is a much more interesting thing to talk about.

Here is an article in which WAPO claims "76% of the claims in a trump speech were false"

Here is a claim that WAPO fact checked:

[Elizabeth Warren] proclaims that she’s of Indian heritage because her mother says she has high cheekbones. That’s her only evidence, that her mother said she had high cheekbones.

False. Although there’s no hard evidence to support Warren’s claim of Native American ancestry, she has cited family lore and not just a stray remark from her mother about her cheekbones.


I urge you to remember WAPO attaches the phrase "democracy dies in darkness" to every page on their website.

Warren claims, but cannot prove, she is native American (i.e. she's not) and has literally referred to her mother's opinion on cheekbones RE native American ancestry.

the claim is by any reasonable standard true. But not according to WAPO.

Trump says something which WAPO ADMITS IN THEIR FACT CHECK WARREN LITERALLY SAID AND GOES ON TO RATE IT AS FALSE. I actually can't think of a more perfect example of doublethink. But remember the #resistance would like to talk about Orwell.

to make that unmistakably clear. That is a paper of record stating that a statement of trump which is irrefutably true is in fact false.

much more interesting

WAPO says President Trump has made 4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days .


WAPO is distinctly unclear if the claim which is literally true (Warren has literally claimed her mother says they have high cheekbones as proof of Native American ancestry) which they rate as false counts as one of the 4.229 falsehoods. Lets run with the fact the fact that some f*****g retard at WAPO decided to fact check that in the first place as conclusive evidence they did include something that is true in the list of things that trump has said which are false.

Even more interesting vash talks about Orwell (who he has never read) as though its a slam dunk against trump.

anyone who doesn't want to be insulted needs to get serious about this kind of s***. Otherwise, you've proved you don't want to play the civility game.
11:31pm 04/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6562 posts
I appreciate. But. are we talking about NK or China?


Neither, really.

Pine Gap would get hit as part of a first strike scenario whereby an enemy sought to destroy the US' ability to wage nuclear war (extremely unlikely scenario fwiw). The only state with the capability to do that is Russia. China only has a few hundred nukes (i.e. not enough to plausibly first strike the US) and as I understand it deploys them in a counter-value targeting posture, not a counter-force one.

The link below shows the difference in modelling a 2000 warhead strike (assumed to be a first strike) that hits predominantly US nuclear and military targets vs a 500 warhead strike (assumed to be a second strike) which predominantly hits cities and other areas of economic value.

http://i.imgur.com/Svs8wtu.jpg

source: apparently FEMA, early 90s.

To be clear I think the likelihood of nuclear war is just as unlikely with Trump in office as it was when when he wasn't, i.e. utterly minuscule. I just find it all super interesting.
09:41am 05/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1048 posts
Your research concludes that Vash's "Nuclear Armageddon' claim is unlikely. He's following fake news again.
09:51pm 05/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24120 posts
I would love to take a wager with you Vash on the Nuclear Armageddon. You name the period and amount.
10:00pm 05/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6564 posts
.
10:44pm 05/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5809 posts

https://thebulletin.org/sites/default/files/2018%20Doomsday%20Clock%20Statement.pdf

Fake news, anything that you feel might be true but your ego forbids to acknowledge.
11:59pm 05/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3276 posts
Just to quote from the document

Especially in the case of the Iran nuclear deal,
allies are perplexed. While President Trump
has steadfastly opposed the agreement that his
predecessor and US allies negotiated to keep Iran
from developing nuclear weapons, he has never
successfully articulated practical alternatives.
His instruction to Congress in 2017 to legislate a
different approach resulted in a stalemate. The
future of the Iran deal, at this writing, remains
uncertain.


JCPOA was going to "prevent" Iran obtaining nuclear weapons.

By allowing them to enrich nuclear materials, without allowing international inspection and required a regime that is fundamentally dishonest to self report.

There was already evidence Iran was not honouring the deal.

Not to mention freeing up Iran's cash reserves allowed them to become the largest state sponsor of terror inside two years. Oh and conduct a systematic program of destabilization in the middle east.

But leaving the deal was the reckless act.

Yeah tell yourself what you have to guys. Seems like the outcome may have been a little "predetermined".
07:39am 06/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1049 posts
No Vash, if you would like to link to where he threatens Nuclear Armageddon, please do. By doing so, you are simply linking to news. By creating outrageous claims you are creating fake news. The clock concept is flawed. It implies the clock is ticking, yet the clock can be turned back. Again, fear mongering.
03:07pm 06/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5810 posts
If you'd like to point your attention to the link i posted, feel free to. Any threat of using Nuclear weapons is basically Nuclear Armageddon due to the cascading effect any such decision would have. But i have a feeling anything you disagree with is 'fake news'
09:18pm 06/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1050 posts
See, we can't argue intelligently when you use absolutes. Consider your use of the the word "Any" for example. It's incorrect, you know it, but it fits your narrative. It's a complete exaggeration and is a false statement. This is 'fake'.

"Any threat of using Nuclear weapons is not Nuclear Armageddon " It's that simple.

You provided a link to a doomsday clock article. He did not "threaten Nuclear Armageddon". Your claim is false. It is fake.
09:34pm 06/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5811 posts


How Fear Affects Political Ideology. Interesting.
11:11am 08/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24121 posts
How safe must Democrats feel to support completely open borders?
11:20am 08/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5812 posts
How safe must Democrats feel to support completely open borders?


That's the fear being fed to you. Not even the most left leaning parties support completely open borders.
11:22am 08/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3277 posts
That's the fear being fed to you


Says the guy linking to a literal countdown to doomsday.
11:34am 08/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24122 posts
no that is a rational examination of the facts
11:35am 08/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3278 posts
What a silly Billy I am.

Conflating hyping up the risk of the end of the world and the extinction of the human race with the "politics of fear".

Everyone knows immigration and gay marriage are the things people are really scared of.
12:43pm 08/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1051 posts
Says the guy linking to a literal countdown to doomsday.


*mild chuckle*

Not even the most left leaning parties support completely open borders.


That's right, whilst some far-left live in communities without doors or locks, others do live in a regular house with walls, and an entry door with a lock on it.
08:28pm 08/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5813 posts
no that is a rational examination of the facts


Source?
03:33am 09/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3279 posts
Well we can't all link to semi-literate animated visualisations of confirmation bias.
06:29am 09/08/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
632 posts
If an illegal immigrant murders a woman after being arrested and deported 5 times previously in a sanctuary city, does one need a "source" in order to conclude maybe illegal immigrants are a risk to society?
10:16am 09/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1052 posts

ABC news

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-08/melbourne-sudanese-families-overcoming-gang-stereotype/10016858

'People don't trust us': What it's like raising Sudanese teenagers in Melbourne


Wall of text with feels and insight into family life contains some facts:

While only a small proportion of overall crime in Victoria is committed by a person from Sudan or South Sudan, crime statistics reveal their rate of offending is six times higher than their numbers in the broader population.
“I think the punishment very soft with the jail. Not strong enough. This is why the kids don’t care and so they end up back inside again. “Because everything is available there — medical, their own bed, their own bathroom, TV, activities. I don’t think there should be TV, no telephone, they should have to do a hard job. “Back home, they sleep on the floor a hundred people in one room, there’s one bucket. Because they knew how hard it was when you were in jail, when you were outside you were never going to do a mistake again.â€


There you have it. Mumma says jail here is luxury compared to where they come from. Incompatible culture?
11:11am 09/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5814 posts
If an illegal immigrant murders a woman after being arrested and deported 5 times previously in a sanctuary city, does one need a "source" in order to conclude maybe illegal immigrants are a risk to society?


If an Australian citizen murders a woman after being arrested 5 times previously in a city, does one need a "source" in order to conclude Australian citizens are a risk to society?
Do you realise how dumb it sounds?
12:53am 10/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3280 posts
Do you realise how dumb it sounds?


Alot less dumb than "omg conservatives are going to trigger nuclear Armageddon plus they can only get elected by using fear".
06:54am 10/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24123 posts
Vash would you be happy to pay 49% tax to fund immigrants arrivals and resettlements? I want to get clear on how extreme your views are.
08:47am 10/08/18 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
633 posts


If an Australian citizen murders a woman after being arrested 5 times previously in a city, does one need a "source" in order to conclude Australian citizens are a risk to society?
Do you realise how dumb it sounds?


You're right, we should stop Australian citizens at the border if they have a criminal record. Oh wait. It's almost as if you deliberately make simplistic and quite frankly stupid arguments.
01:03pm 10/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5815 posts
Vash would you be happy to pay 49% tax to fund immigrants arrivals and resettlements? I want to get clear on how extreme your views are.


No, because it wouldn't be necessary to raise taxes. Immigrants boost the economy and become tax payers themselves.
01:55pm 10/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7883 posts
^ So wouldn't that mean that all a country has to do is let in more immigrants and it will magically become a better more wealthy country?
10:12am 11/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3281 posts
Holy nuclear Armageddon, that's the fear being fed to you.

Yes all a country has to do let in everyone. That's why no country on earth has an immigration act.
10:58am 11/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1053 posts
Vash, would you agree that:

Not all immigrants are equal

Not all job applicants are equal.

Not all nations are equal.

Not all employers are equal?
03:17pm 11/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5816 posts
^ So wouldn't that mean that all a country has to do is let in more immigrants and it will magically become a better more wealthy country?


Doesn't mean that at all. Every country needs a healthy amount of immigration, not too much and not too little. As a society becomes more educated and progressive, people have less children, which is when you need to increase immigration to offset the loss in population growth.

But this is talking under the current Capitalist framework which requires never ending growth to keep itself going. Something im sure we can all agree isn't sustainable well into the future.

I agree with all those Nmag, im not sure what your point is though.
04:07pm 11/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7884 posts
I wonder what the perfect rate of immigration would be to lift Haiti out of sickening poverty?

04:45pm 11/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5817 posts
Looks like Capitalism failed Haiti.
05:08pm 11/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7885 posts
How can you blame something that barely exists?
06:53pm 11/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3282 posts
So Raven

Took us 100 posts to get back here.

Let's talk about your rules of discussion. if you've got some rules that will prevent "capitalism is the root of all evil" I'm all ears.

In the meantime there are two kinds of people, retards who think capitalism is the root of all evil and everyone else.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on climate change. Because if you think you don't have to hear from climate change skeptics I'd like to hear why I should have to suffer Champagne socialists.

I won't mince my words any argument you can come up with for barring climate change skeptics applies a fortiori to a socialist
07:16pm 11/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6565 posts
Don't try and engage raven, he just likes chiming in with a "pox on both their houses, i'm a programmer so i could totez organise society" nonsense from time to time.

Having said that, this thread has been dominated by f*****g retards for some time. Dazed and nmag are barely better than vash.

you're better than them porno, call them out when they are being retarded
09:56pm 11/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5818 posts
you're better than them porno, call them out when they are being retarded


Heh thats funny. The better man disregards the lesser man. Hence why porno is ignored by half the forum. (though that isn't many considering the activity here)
10:36pm 11/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6567 posts
Vash you are the living, breathing embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

just shut the f*** up for a bit please. like I also want dazed and nmag to also shut the f*** up. but please, please know you are on their same level of stupid.
10:42pm 11/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3283 posts
you're better than them porno, call them out when they are being retarded


I'm quite comfortable about where I stand in the order of things.

I've reduced fpot to a gibbering retard while he can't even read my posts.

Don't hate the player Baby.

It's especially enjoyable to know vash thinks he talks about things I don't want him to.
11:06pm 11/08/18 Permalink
taggs
6568 posts
You know what I'm saying don't roll around with the pigs, you get dirty and the pigs like it. People read this s*** other than vash and his /r/latestagecapitalist stooges. When they go low let's go high. Vash ain't worth debasing yourself for.

That doesn't carry the day.

Edit: appreciate the hypocrisy of telling of telling someone(s) to stfu and then telling someone else to take the high road. I'm a complicated guy.
11:14pm 11/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3284 posts
I disagree.

I think it is important to have people like vash spew their retardation as often as possible.

As he says a bunch of people block my posts. Which is amazing. I'd love to compare notes with people about policy topic they've discussed with high court Judges. For example discussing human rights abuses in North Korea with Michael Kirby. I've done that.

Pretty sure it's not a long list of other people on this forum who've done that.

But lots of folks are apparently walking the high road. Sounds suspiciously like "I don't want to read opinions I don't agree with" to me.

I enjoy the irony of folks like trog who'll jump down your throat about the experts blocking someone like me. It proves a very clear point in mind.
12:15am 12/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1054 posts
Taggs, you should play the topic, not the person, or stfu yourself.
12:29pm 12/08/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24125 posts
I think it is important to have people like vash spew their retardation as often as possible.


Vash is like this thread's CNN. The more he talks the more he is ridiculed. Keep up the good work!
02:49pm 12/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5819 posts

Another right wing scare campaign debunked



http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4821769.htm

PC & Post modernism, cultural marxism is taking over reeeee


11:16pm 12/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3285 posts
Rather than saying ‘I provide the same care to everyone regardless of difference,’ cultural safety means providing care that takes into account Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples’ needs.

— Nursing & Midwifery Board of Australia code of conduct for nurses and code of conduct for midwives, March, 2018


Oh but wait. Debunked maybe isn't the word for that little guy.

Confirmed might be.

Other than medical I wonder what those needs might be....

It's fun watching someone who obviously struggles to tie their own shoelaces talk about lesser men.

And just for kick the definition of cultural safety from the actual code which definately doesn't require an acknowledgement of white privilege.


Cultural safety concept was developed in a First Nations’ context and is the preferred term for nursing and midwifery. Cultural safety is endorsed by the Congress of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Nurses and Midwives (CATSINaM), who emphasise that cultural safety is as important to quality care as clinical safety. However, the “presence or absence of cultural safety is determined by the recipient of care; it is not defined by the caregiver” (CATSINaM, 2014, p. 9).  Cultural safety is a philosophy of practice that is about how a health professional does something, not [just] what they do. It is about how people are treated in society, not about their diversity as such, so its focus is on systemic and structural issues and on the social determinants of health. Cultural safety represents a key philosophical shift from providing care regardless of difference, to care that takes account of peoples’ unique needs. It requires nurses and midwives to undertake an ongoing process of self-reflection and cultural self-awareness, and an acknowledgement of how a nurse’s/midwife’s personal culture impacts on care.  In relation to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health, cultural safety provides a de-colonising model of practice based on dialogue, communication, power sharing and negotiation, and the acknowledgment of white privilege. These actions are a means to challenge racism at personal and institutional levels, and to establish trust in healthcare encounters (CATSINaM, 2017b, p. 11).  In focusing on clinical interactions, particularly power inequity between patient and health professional, cultural safety calls for a genuine partnership where power is shared between the individuals and cultural groups involved in healthcare. Cultural safety is also relevant to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health professionals. Non-Indigenous nurses and midwives must address how they create a culturally safe work environment that is free of racism for their Aboriginal and Torres


That was such an epic debunking. When a fact checker doesn't go to the primary documents it's a huge red flag.

So much less
06:54am 13/08/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9624 posts
You seem to be confusing things I've said with things trog said.

That aside, some of the false-equivalencies and hyperbole in other posts on the last page or so (from both sides/camps) have been rather ridiculous. But it's quite evident we've resorted back to post after post of namecalling and that some people just can't help themselves.
11:13am 13/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1055 posts
I'd support some guidance around our discussion. I don't mean forum moderation, I mean just having a go.

- Avoid name calling and stupid words like "dumb, idiot, retard".
- Avoid some commonly used but offensive terms like "nazi, leftard, cuck, snowflake, racist".
- Avoid grossly exaggerating with absolutes like "all, none, every, never" unless they are accurate.

I'm sure I've broken some of those points but I try not to.

It's understandable that at times, emotion may override the brain and venting occurs. Whilst I don't agree with Vash's and fpots left wing views I don't hate them for it. They mean well, we don't agree... on its goes. I appreciate the left has this 'benevolent' thing, and it is a nice thing. I believe when you do the maths you need worthwhile return on funds and risk, and I don't personally believe the return is there for wide ranging benevolence.

This Trump and American politics gets too much air time. Why can't we discuss more local things?

Why do we give so much money to Indonesia?
06:06pm 13/08/18 Permalink
Alize`
Brisbane, Queensland
1932 posts
Well I think donations to Indonesia are to make sure our mining companies continue to have access to Indonesian resources.

Sorry to hijack your question but this started doing the rounds recently on social media. What are your thoughts on the $444 million dollar donation to fix the barrier reef given to a group that didn't ask for it with oil company relations and no legal tender for the grant?

03:41pm 14/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1056 posts
I think the grant will be about as effective at preserving the reef, as the carbon tax is in addressing it's 'goals'.
05:11pm 14/08/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41155 posts
i dont know about you, but im enjoying all the salty liberal tears and dummy spits going on today.

delicious!
08:54pm 14/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7886 posts
Can we use 'red pilled' and 'blue pilled' terms?

https://s15.postimg.cc/nqef87pp7/The_Oracle16.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/7tk8orhej/14x3n2.jpg

last edited by sLaps_Forehead at 21:16:55 14/Aug/18
09:15pm 14/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1057 posts
i dont know about you, but i'm enjoying all the salty liberal tears and dummy spits going on today.

delicious!


The accessibility of social media over the last 15 years has given people with gripes, who want more free stuff, an excessive sense of entitlement, and who have a great deal of free time on their hands, to communicate and essentially circle jerk, protected in their safe space by ever increasing political correctness. Not all that different to noisy children in a household wanting more, and throwing tantrums when they don't get it. Vocal minority.

I know adults who struggle to pay their bills, who can't distinguish between 'wants' and 'needs'. When the money runs low, it's the fault of government. Wealthy people are to blame.

In our home we have no net-flicks, no stan, no cable TV. We have multiple houses in the Sydney property market and both drive cars well under 30k each. We studied hard, and worked hard, we chose careers for $$ not love. I work with people who complain they are poor who have all net-flicks, stan, cable TV, and drive 50k cars, do an annual cruise, and then go pay $200 to get fake eyelashes, got to 4 concerts a year, and believe capitalism is the root of all evil. The state of their household finances is not my fault, it is theirs, plain and simple. It is easy for them to blame the successful. The reluctance to take responsibility for their actions is likely the cause of their own financial pain, plain and simple.
11:24am 15/08/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7887 posts
Did you buy pre housing ponzi boom or after?
11:50am 15/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3286 posts
$200 to get fake eyelashes


Small price to pay for self-esteem
01:17pm 15/08/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9625 posts
The state of their household finances is not my fault, it is theirs, plain and simple. It is easy for them to blame the successful. The reluctance to take responsibility for their actions is likely the cause of their own financial pain, plain and simple.


None of what you have used in this example is an indicator or supporting evidence of the claim that capitalism either is or isn't a problem or without issue. Whether or not or how they spend their income in this way is completely unrelated to the issues we're seeing with the massive inequality and cost-of-living issues many are seeing.

Mind you, spelling Netflix as "net-flicks" shows an obvious disconnect from society - this is a company with a $150b market cap we're talking about, not some niche company a few hipsters support.

last edited by Raven at 14:21:42 15/Aug/18
02:20pm 15/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3287 posts
None of what you have used in this example is an indicator or supporting evidence of the claim that capitalism either is or isn't a problem or without issue.


Not what he wrote.
Whether or not or how they spend their income in this way is completely unrelated to the issues we're seeing with the massive inequality and cost-of-living issues many are seeing.


I don't think you can separate competent handling of personal finances from "cost-of-living" as easily as that.

The complaint he is plainly making is people with high discretionary spending habits (ie enjoying the fruits of capitalism) whining about capitalism.

It doesn't follow that there are no problems whatsoever with the housing market.
03:02pm 15/08/18 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
2233 posts

In our home we have no net-flicks, no stan, no cable TV. We have multiple houses in the Sydney property market
https://i.imgur.com/XaFZvGb.png

This account is so good
edit:
PS: Remember when Pauline was the biggest racist in Aus political landscape?

Yeah make Australia great again, lets go back to those good old days.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-15/anning-speech-sets-up-battleground-between-katter-and-hanson/10123208
08:05pm 15/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3288 posts
But how will you show everyone you're not racist redhat?
07:38am 16/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5820 posts
11:37am 16/08/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9626 posts
Information and education has always been an enemy to the church. Given that republicans are more typically that way aligned, that shouldn't be a surprise they'd be against anything that may reveal the bad things they do.
11:58am 16/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3289 posts
Yeah could be that.

Could also be the overwhelming evidence that the majority of the media had no interest whatsoever in balanced coverage of their candidate.

like for example fact checking as false a literal quote of Elisabeth Warren.

in which Warren explains her family have high cheekbones "like the Indians do"

But let's revisit this "no insults" rule shall we Raven.

Do you think your post is an insult or not?

Some people might think implying that a whole group of people are living in self ordained ignorance and are angry that the bubble is being poked as opposed them having a coherent political philosophy qualifies as an insult.

Just sayin'
12:17pm 16/08/18 Permalink
Vash
5821 posts


Indeed Raven
03:54pm 16/08/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9627 posts
You still having a sook because you got called out on numerous posts within just a few pages of actually explicitly targeted name-calling at individuals?
04:57pm 16/08/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3290 posts
If that's your reading of that passage of posts, but I think close examination might reveal a different interpretation. But no that's not what I'm doing.

I'm pointing out the fact you bemoan people not expressing their opinion because they get insulted and then rely on a tired, lazy and provably wrong stereotype.

I can see why that might touch a nerve.
05:15pm 16/08/18 Permalink
BiKESEAT
Brisbane, Queensland
395 posts
The irony is if we did have a socialist society these morons wouldn't be having their $200 eyebrow dye jobs and streaming media galore. It would be state sponsored two channel tv with no internet access.. ask North Korea or China.

In other news, Trump is by far the best thing that's ever happened to the US and I wish we could have similar here.

I, along with most of my peers, are university educated, with decent incomes and net worth's, and all of us agree what he has done for the US would be fantastic here. Reducing company tax rates, leaving the stupid paris agreement, bringing manufacturing and jobs back by leaving one sided trade agreements.

07:29pm 16/08/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
1058 posts
Like most people, like generations before ours, when we purchased our first house we had to:
- Move 'away'.. further 'out' to a rougher nastier neighbourhood
- Buy a place that was worse than what we grew up in, and was worse that what we rented
- Make s*** loads of sacrifice to get the deposit
- Once purchased, make s*** loads of sacrifice to pay mortgage that was higher than paying rent
- To know that you have liability. You can't just take off and go rent again. This thing needs to be payed off for about 10 years to break even if you wanted to pull out of deal.

All these issues were there then, and still apply. The market was easier then, and it was easier each decade previous.

The trend is likely to continue, unless implosion. It is tough now, but it's over rated to think it was sooo much easier back then.

It was soo much easier in my parent's time, and it's likely to be soooo much harder for generations to come.

About half the people I know my age still rent. Buying isn't for everyone. Some like shares instead of property. Some like the flexibility of renting. Many had to move out of Sydney to buy, and say themselves, they could never afford to move back into the market, that was 10-15 years ago. There are lots of regional towns with lots of jobs with lower priced property in NSW. Sydney is a mess anyway. It's overloaded infrastructure.. with unit blocks going up rapidly. It's been wild.

The thing that will bite a new home buyer now, more than the wages slowing, is the banks holding back lending too much to people who can't pay it off. They offered an outrageous amount to us more than a decade ago and it was pretty shocking. We didn't use what they were offering, it was scary... the risk. but they don't care, and I'm sure many people are way in over their heads. When these interest rates go up, and then start creeping up, could be lots of defaulting happening.

Raven, I'm not really into marketing, and how brands like to use sexie spellin' to whore tha warz. Stuff nflikxz. It's the small recurring unnecessary little luxuries that generally add up to more than the 'larger' costs in a household budget. How about, personalised plates, getting nails done, registering 3 cars and two motor bikes for one person, choosing to live alone, 'cause it's nice'. Pets, hobbies, holidays,... latest iphone, run aircon day and night, eating out often.. daily $4 coffees. It all adds up.

We will be out of the game when we sell a house this year, and then we just have our home. Media typically runs stories about tenants getting a bad deal. Ask a landlord for some horror stories. Contrary to media hype, the NSW rental bond board tribunal tends to favour the tenant regardless the news you read. The things tenants can do to a house in a lower socioeconomic area, and get away with it are fascinating.
08:01pm 16/08/18 Permalink
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