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Was I in the wrong?
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11759 posts
I was at bunnings the other day, weather wasn't too hot, top of 29 said BOM, and that felt about right. It was about 1:30pm and i was in my ute with my son. I said, 'do you wanna come in mate, or stay in the car' and he opted to stay in the car. So I purposely parked under a tree so the cab of the ute was fully in shade, and being an older ute, has quarter-glass windows. I opened both quarter glass windows fully and wound up both windows and locked the doors, with him inside. There was a breeze flowing through the cab and i figured it was okay. The ute is white, it doesn't get terribly hot in there, especially under the shade of a tree.

Anyway, some do-gooder complained to bunnings and they called out my rego over the loud speaker and they told me someone had said there was a child (six, almost seven years old) locked in a car and it'd been like 15 minutes.

So said thankyou and left and asked my son had anyone come to talk to you 'no', are you hot 'no', are you okay 'yes, i'm just bored'.

Anyway, I remember several times being around that age staying in the car while mum or dad went into the shops, and no-one said boo.

Was I wrong, or is society wrong? Or a bit of both?
10:10am 21/02/18 Permalink
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10:10am 21/02/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12324 posts
The laws says.
Queensland

Legislation:
Queensland Criminal Code Act 1899 (QLD) - Section 364A

(1) A person who, having the lawful care or charge of a child under 12 years, leaves the child for an unreasonable time without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child during that time commits a misdemeanour.

Maximum penalty—3 years imprisonment.

(2) Whether the time is unreasonable depends on all the relevant circumstances.
So, I suppose yes you would be in the wrong. I think the police tend to respond to these situations on a case by case basis. For example, I don't think you are going to cop hell for leaving your kids in the car after pumping petrol to run in and pay as long as you have taken reasonable steps to ensure their safety (like not leaving the keys in the ignition). But then again, its also illegal (not sure if illegal is the right word but its got a big fine...) to leave your car unsecured (that is to leave it unlocked and walk away from it).

A quote from some mum blog site says...
In QLD the laws are tougher, parents in the Sunshine state risk up to three years’ jail for the crime of “leaving a child under 12 unattended.’In QLD police have used this legislation to prosecute parents for leaving their kids alone in a car for a few minutes at a time.
They don't really specify any specific case of this happening...so could just be some s*** someone made up...

But at the end of the day...its QLD. It gets f*****g hot as hell quick. If your kid wants to stay in the car, tell them to STFU and get their arse into the store or you'll take away their XBox/PS/Tablet/Phone/toy/whatever. When they're an adult they can sit in cars as long as they want :)
10:50am 21/02/18 Permalink
Denominator
Brisbane, Queensland
985 posts
society wrong not you. If ANYONE can unlock a door they are not locked in the car. In the last month while walking past telly Mrs was watching news and a Physiologist was on about we don't give kids enough responsibility. He said something about letting preschool kids catch a train to school.

If your kid can get out of the car and go inside to find you or goto toilet and find his way back to the car then there should be no problem. Do gooder did the right thing in pointing it out to bunnings as we are not all parents. Bunnings did the right thing in announcing over PA.
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/09/why-are-little-kids-in-japan-so-independent/407590/

10:55am 21/02/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12325 posts
society wrong not you.
Yeah...seems to me the laws are set because 0.01% of retards will leave a 2 month old in the car while they play pokies for 12 hours...just the way it is though. You always have to remember the rules are set to a level to account for the dumbest most useless f**** in society...we could just ban them from having kids but apparently that's wrong.
10:59am 21/02/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39480 posts
I guess the missing info is: how old is your son (understand if you don't want to share that info ) and how long do you think he'd been left in the car?

A kid in the shade with the windows down doesn't seem like that big a deal - but neither does notifying Bunnings staff just to make sure they're aware of it
11:02am 21/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11760 posts
he's six, almost seven.
11:37am 21/02/18 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
9324 posts
Anyway, some do-gooder


I'm not sure referring to them as a doo-gooder is fair. They were concerned for your sons welfare - that's a good thing, right?

That don't know if the child's parent is you (who we know from on here as a reasonable sensible adult) or a drug addict that parked in Bunnings and is passed out in the side street with a sausage in one hand and a needle in the other.

12:47pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Ickus
Perth, Western Australia
632 posts
Ignoring any legal aspects...

I feel that as long as your son would of been fine there for an extended period of time due to unforeseen circumstances (ie 4+ hours) there is nothing wrong with it.

At 6-7 years old they probably would be capable of going to ask for help if you didn't come back after a fair while.
02:50pm 21/02/18 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
7754 posts
i wouldn't have said you were in the wrong. but times are a changin' it seems. similarly, my parents would leave me (& my siblings) unattended for hours when we were kids & no harm done.
03:49pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9575 posts
The s*** we used to be able to do as kids you wouldn't get away with half of now. Parents would leave us at home on our own for weekends - you'd get carted off to jail for that now. Don't even dream of leaving a kid in a car even though they're perfectly capable of keeping themselves safe.

We used to climb trees which even a grown adult can't go near without a safety harness and setting up all kinds of signage in case they were to fall out and land on someone.
04:14pm 21/02/18 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
2833 posts
Legally it might be an issue but as others have said, its a case by case basis.

Other than that, you are completely fine. I've sat in car while Mum has been in the shop to get a few things or to visit someone, most of the time because I wanted to. There are things to take into consideration of course. Like the temp and where you are parked, access to a drink etc.
04:50pm 21/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11762 posts
thank-you all for your considered responses. This reflects much of my thoughts; especially Denominator's.

I am glad we live in a society where the vulnerable are thought of and people have a general concern for. It is nice to know that people are essentially 'good'. I think following a few high profile cases (daniel morcombe, william tyrell) has people on edge, even though there are probably less missing children than say, the 80s.

But in saying that, does everything need to be a 'will somebody think of the children!!' maude flanders type response, that mollycoddles children and then society wonders why generation whatever can't do anything or aren't leaving home until 29.

I thought i'd covered the heat/securty/breeze/shade considerations sufficiently, it appears that someone else didn't agree.

Who knows, maybe there's more to the story that I don't know about, perhaps the person knew of the presence of a nefarious person in the vicinity.

At any rate, it's one of those things where it's fine every time, until it's not, so we don't take the risk any more as a society, it seems.
05:22pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40993 posts
Why take the kid if they arent going in?

My retarded in laws take their stupid yappy dog to the shops and leave it in the car with windows down.

Im always hoping someone calls the cops on them.

Yes u were wrong.
06:07pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12326 posts
Why take the kid if they arent going in?
Some kids believe family life is a democracy in which they have a vote :p
07:04pm 21/02/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39482 posts
Was it a weekend? because in that case you have to consider the bigger question: what sort of parent goes to Bunnings and doesn't take their kid to the sausage sizzle
07:17pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40995 posts
My kids love bunnings for the feed and to check out tools or the playground.
07:25pm 21/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4372 posts
if the kid wants to stay in the car and play tappy tap games on the phone instead of braving the busy crowded Bunnings on the weekend because it’s somewhat anxiety inducing for a 6 or 7 year old with no interest in a good diy fulfilment, I dunno, it depends on the mood of the kid. I mean he or she has probably had enough of being moving groups of people from all week at school and wants to chill out instead of walking around following the parent in a warm warehouse with lots of busy bodies to avoid.

people who would put it to the management to call out over the PA are just the worst kind of nosey worry wart with nothing better to do than get their s*** and go home.
08:37pm 21/02/18 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
26254 posts
or a drug addict that parked in Bunnings and is passed out in the side street with a sausage in one hand and a needle in the other.
Holy f*** did I laugh at this!
08:43pm 21/02/18 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5154 posts
Was I in the wrong?
he's six, almost seven.


You asked an honest question and I give you my honest answer. Yes, you were wrong. Sorry, straight up not a good idea. What if someone took him? He's could have been a Danial Morcombe ffs. Wheather or not your son wanted to stay in the car or not isn't even a question. He should have no option as it is not legal and it is not safe. I know you said the car was locked. This means nothing if someone wanted to take him. It would take no time whatsoever to get him out of there and be gone.

The sad fact of the world is that monsters DO exist. Protect your kids at all times. End of story.
09:36pm 21/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4373 posts
go back to your Mardi Gras parallel fantasia E.T. you wowser of a queer

if you said that kind of s*** to any male parent with a spine on a bad day you'd get knocked out.
10:45pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Caveboy
Brisbane, Queensland
428 posts
I've got daughters 4 and 6 and no way in hell would I leave them alone in a car outside someplace like Bunnings.
11:06pm 21/02/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23995 posts
I've got daughters 4 and 6 and no way in hell would I leave them alone in a car outside someplace like Bunnings.


Amen, I'm not leaving my cherished child alone in the car for some sick f*** to call out to her and say they have lost their dog can you help me find her (Sian Kingi), or have free ice cream, or any of the other sneaky f***ed up s*** perverts do. It's not the kids fault, kids need to be watched until they are old enough to fend for themself and either run like the wind or scream their heads off. i.e. 13.

Sorry Hardware, I think u dun goofed.
11:18pm 21/02/18 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3367 posts
Nothing unreasonable in what ET said. The stone age called trillion, they want their perspective back.

I agree it seems a bit over the top, but totes possible (and has for others) for any number of things to go wrong. The so called do-gooders and Bunnings did the right thing with the information available to them at the time. Better safe than sorry.

Having said that, I was just reading about how more independent young children are in some Asian countries, and I defo agree we should give kids more responsibility.

In Japan, small children take the subway and run errands alone, no parent in sight. The reason why has more to do with social trust than self-reliance.
Parents in Japan regularly send their kids out into the world at a very young age. A popular television show called Hajimete no Otsukai, or My First Errand, features children as young as two or three being sent out to do a task for their family.
06:06am 22/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21492 posts
if you said that kind of s*** to any male parent with a spine on a bad day you'd get knocked out.


Trillion i think you will find these days you are the minority here.

Putting all the danger s*** aside, if he wanted to go to bunnings with you in the first place i wouldn't even be asking if he wanted to stay in the car.
08:41am 22/02/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23996 posts
Having said that, I was just reading about how more independent young children are in some Asian countries, and I defo agree we should give kids more responsibility.


Have you been to Japan? It is the safest country on earth. They don't have random pervs and creeps over there snatching children, they just video it all professionally with annoying pixelation.

When I went there, people leave their purses unattended while they go to the toilet in a McDonalds, primary kids walk everywhere by themselves or go on the subway.

Australia is f***ed. As if you would let your kid do anything unsupervised nowadays.
11:00am 22/02/18 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5155 posts
trillion. Your response says way more about you than it does about me.
11:43am 22/02/18 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7742 posts
used to be totally cool but definitely can't in 2018. would be nice if you could but there's just some things you gotta accept about the past being gone. like spook's bowling arm.
03:21pm 22/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11764 posts
like spook's bowling arm.
eh, plenty more people can bowl pies
03:24pm 22/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21494 posts
some things you gotta accept about the past being gone. like spook's bowling arm.
https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/apply-cold-water-to-that-burn-meme.jpg
04:40pm 22/02/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41000 posts
No
04:43pm 22/02/18 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1689 posts
I won't leave my 9 and 11yr old daughters in the car by themselves, I always take them into the shops. If they are with their older (15 and 17) siblings then I'll leave them in the car. Oh well lesson learned I guess.
06:14pm 22/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
3956 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Abusive
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10:54pm 22/02/18 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
26255 posts
Heh wow.
11:44pm 22/02/18 Permalink
Denominator
Brisbane, Queensland
986 posts
G it wasn't that long ago people were dropping off there kids at a place that got raided for suspected kidy pics to play games with strangers overnight and pick them up the next day.
12:08am 23/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21495 posts
trillion you need to get back on your meds mate

that bipolar poking its head out
08:16am 23/02/18 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5156 posts
hahaha Trillion. You're a walking ad for "don't do drugs kids"
You sound butt hurt like someone is attacking your child snatching business.
10:27am 23/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11765 posts
I won't leave my 9 and 11yr old daughters in the car by themselves
Would your decision change if they were boys? Not criticising, i'm legitimately interested as i seem still to have much to learn.
Oh well lesson learned I guess.
Yes, very much so.
12:14pm 23/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11766 posts
Woo! Hate mail!
https://image.ibb.co/n6LVdH/Capture.png

last edited by hardware at 14:16:13 23/Feb/18
02:15pm 23/02/18 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
9326 posts
^ lol
02:53pm 23/02/18 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1690 posts
Would your decision change if they were boys?


Nah dude kids are kids. Longest I would leave them in the car by themselves would be to go into the servo to pay for fuel.
04:22pm 23/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
3957 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Abusive
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07:39pm 23/02/18 Permalink
shad
Brisbane, Queensland
4098 posts
I'd never leave them in the car alone at that age. I remember being in the car when I was young and climbing around inside, f*****g around with the handbrake. If they are within eyesight then I think leaving them in there is fine.

I have my doubts when people say how much more dangerous it is these days. I would think it would have been more dangerous back when I was a kid when you could kidnap someone and there was f*** all chance of being caught because of CCTV/GPS Phone location/Dashcams/Traffic monitoring/Camera Phones.
09:25pm 23/02/18 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3368 posts
I'm also not convinced it's materially more dangerous now than it was in the 80's / 90's, etc. I think it's just our perspective of relative danger that's changed due to our access to the news media and the internet. The news doesn't report good things or bad things not happening, they just report bad things happening, on a much wider scale and from larger populations than before. It doesn't necessarily mean the frequency of bad things has increased. I think the overall crime rates have actually been decreasing, no? And I agree it's also harder to get away with crimes now than it was in the 80's / 90's. I don't have any data to back this up.
12:35am 24/02/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3048 posts
You're correct viper. Violence in general has been steadily declining for decades.

Here is a s*** ton of supporting evidence.

Fwiw I doubt what you did was illegal hardware.

That statute says an unreasonable amount of time and expands to say unreasonable in all the circumstances.

That doesn't mean you have to be prepared to prevent someone else committing a very serious crime.

If the car was unlikely to get dangerously hot you'd be able to argue it.
08:41am 24/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21497 posts
When i was around that age i was left in the car alone in a car park that was on quite a grade, i managed to undo the hand brake and the car rolled into the car in front of it 😁
02:48pm 24/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4376 posts
he's not asking if it's illegal PP, he's looking to confirm that what he did wasn't similar leaving a dog in a potentially hot car if enough time passes for the sun to change it's angle and the car heats up

the difference is the dog can only maybe yap where a 7 year old would probably open the door and get out if it became uncomfortable

the fact that the d******* go-gooder as he wrote was probably upto their head up their ass in Bunning's advertising (no other reason to be there really) when they spotted a chance to react to a situation inappropriately given common sense, is what he's looking for the answer for
04:40pm 24/02/18 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
19168 posts
you should be thankful that someone was concerned about the safety of your child instead of b****ing about it on a forum.

last edited by ravn0s at 17:27:33 24/Feb/18
05:25pm 24/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4377 posts
that's nothing for anyone to be thankful for. giving someone the respect of a thankyou would only encourage the person to annoy someone else with it again

when someone creates an opportunity for their own subjective concern whereby you support that they be thanked for when the act is uncalled for, that's actually the problem of the sycophant creep and not the person who it falls on to have to question their action as if they should need to be hyper vigilant for their child's safety or else they'll be raped or whatever worst nightmare is delusionally invented because of a the media lessons of those incidents

to even think that it's statistically possible makes you either an a****** of an insecure parent or that you haven't really got a grip on reality

i've had all sorts of twisted messaging through my 10 year old daughter from her degenerate step father, all it's done is proven that the welfare state created by the baby bonus gave degenerates the run of breeding until it thankfully came to a stop.

so don't get smug on your slight messaging about nothing you've ever experienced ravn0s: you waste of time societal twit.
07:27pm 24/02/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
41001 posts
I dont know what is going on here.
07:34pm 24/02/18 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
5157 posts
for their own subjective concern



You mean for their concern of the child right!? They didn't raise their voice for themselves. Most humans can understand that much.
09:16pm 24/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4378 posts
No, it's clearly typed. subjective concern.

Does your internal queer thesaurus also twist what you're reading to be comfortable in cherry picking the written context in a similar way to how your sexuality apparently was since puberty?

In a human sense i couldn't care less anyway, if i don't know you i by default have no respect for you, and even if i did i could respect you even less than someone i don't know.
09:28pm 24/02/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
3050 posts
Can I begin by thanking you for your thoughtful comments trillion.

If I can elaborate on the legal point for a second.

As far as raising children goes, there is no more personal decision making. So to the extent behaviour isn't illegal, the correct answer to hardware's question is it is hardware's call and his alone.

With that said he invited opinion, so I guess he has to roll with the punches.

If I saw a kid parked in shade in a car at bunnings I probably wouldn't mention it. But if I was leaving kids in the car, I'd accept the odd embarrassing loudspeaker call is probably the price of entry these days.
09:28pm 24/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21498 posts
Someone is still pissed about his custody arrangement and is taking it out on the forum
11:32am 25/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4379 posts
yeah make that comment cancer boy
01:05pm 25/02/18 Permalink
dranged
Sydney, New South Wales
2116 posts
Is it not better to be safe than sorry?

How often do we hear about someone or someone's pet cooking in a car?

I don't think it's a matter of being wrong, but, you know, there are signs all over the place about Elder Abuse and "don't rip off your parents" and other really obvious s***. People are stupid.

Take the hit on the chin and enjoy the rest of your weekend :)
03:44pm 25/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4380 posts
dranged your spastic interpretation of a 3rd degree euphemism as you're correlating it with legal advertising makes no point in anything to do with what's being discussed here whatsoever

within a normal, non-autistic manner of thinking it's better to be safe than sorry. you want to polarise it and throw in tough guy non responsible metaphors, you're part of the problem.

05:33pm 25/02/18 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
26257 posts
Hey trillion can you post that audio clip of when you got absolutely slaughtered in that argument with your ex again? I need a laugh. Did you manage to stay away from your kid so that they have a chance of not being a complete f*** up like you?
07:20pm 25/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4381 posts
Nope those shenanigans ended a long time ago, stooge
07:44pm 25/02/18 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
26258 posts
So your child is safely away from you then?
08:01pm 25/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21499 posts
yeah make that comment cancer boy


I will take that lame reply as acknowledgement of the accuracy of my comment.
08:25pm 25/02/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18533 posts

if the kid wants to stay in the car and play tappy tap games on the phone instead of braving the busy crowded Bunnings on the weekend because it’s somewhat anxiety inducing for a 6 or 7 year old


Why the conclusion that the kid was suffering from anxiety?
09:10pm 25/02/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
24000 posts
It's a personal decision. Hardware asked for an opinion. Now give an opinion about his specific question or f*** off.
09:31pm 25/02/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18534 posts
Shutup infi, your post wasn't a specific opinion about the question to the post you hypocritical barely self-aware troll.
06:36pm 26/02/18 Permalink
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