We don synthetic skin to live the life of a robot in service of that one true evil... mankind
Detroit: Become Human - Press X for Review
Launches In October, set In WWII, there's a new co-op mode, and it will not have paid DLC
Battlefield V Reveal!
On-hand at the recent Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 reveal event and went all in on story, battle royale, and multiplayer.
Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 - The Big Interview
F*&^ You Liberals - NBN is a mess
notgreazy
Other International
745 posts
Yeah, another NBN thread. I gotta rant though.

I was up in Darwin where true NBN exited (FTTP). I've moved down to SEQ and FTTN seems to be ubiquitous, unfortunately I never realised that FTTN requires it's own special modem. My current TP-Link modem may or may not work because I'm finding mixed information on the router.

I never realised how much of a clusterf*** this is.

God damn the f*****g liberals.
03:37pm 28/07/17 Permalink
system
Internet
--
03:37pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40706 posts
im super excited about NBN, as my suburb has gone from not being on the map to getting it early next year.

buying a modem is nothing, its a once off purchase.
03:49pm 28/07/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
746 posts
im super excited about NBN, as my suburb has gone from not being on the map to getting it early next year.

buying a modem is nothing, its a once off purchase.

I already have a f*****g modem that does ADSL and NBN. It's dumb.

You would have probably gotten FTTP before this. I was getting sweet speeds and ping in Darwin.

IN DARWIN! and here I am in city with a population that's quadruple the size of Darwin and I get worse speeds and ping.

Also this thread is about Liberals ruining NBN. Not about the NBN directly. I thought you'd be well into ripping the Libs SPook!
03:56pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40707 posts
yer, of course the libs are completely terribad.

i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!
04:05pm 28/07/17 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
19110 posts

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!


you're effectively already on the NBN.
04:09pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40708 posts
nah, even with useless nbn, upstream is better.

i have a lot of socials to manage and waiting for my hi-larious holiday photo uploads is a pain in the bottom.
04:12pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Geezer
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1 posts
not really ya f***** dolty sack of potatoes :) it depends on the area. it's just ignorant to assume otherwise

have a client at work who just got FTTP installed in Coomera and she's pretty happy with it. it's not a half measure telco owned circuit with a coax leadin, it's the yellow coated fibre s*** into the NTU that's installed in the home office and not in the garage or next to the mains breaker cabinet

report was that throughput was a bit s***, but she's tech numpty and hasn't heard of a wifi repeater or powerline adapters. i guess that it might be the routing or the area's data transit infrastructure that's old af Gigabit transit and it's gets smashed with all the other recent installs going in, why slap in $$$,$$$ costing powered fibre cabinets when they can just over provision a single one and run FTTP to the endpoints? as long as the customer can see it's legit FTTP NBNCo don't have to buy the s*** out of expensey af trunking gear to fulfill the capacity immediately

i've seen other NBNCo NTU installs in development builds along the southern M1 region near Coomera too, so the FTTP is there it's just not retroactively being provisioned to be optioned alongside or completely replace the telco circuits in s***hole suburban dumps

if you consider it from a capacity planning perspective for NBNCo, it makes sense not to install and disrupt services en mass on the existing telco circuits of the slaves paying the interest on the loan but to new developments and enclaves, where the people who pay their bills live or will be soon anyway
04:49pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Vash
5472 posts
yer, of course the libs are completely terribad.

i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!



I thought places with Optus/Telstra HFC are getting NBN HFC which is barely an improvement for upload speeds?
04:58pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23839 posts
Always gotta be one old geezer working hard to try and justify the clusterf*** the libs have made of the NBN
05:03pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Geezer
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
2 posts

apparently it's only a clusterf*** if it's not available and you have one of those munty NBN-ready modems just begging for a plug in

you don't see Spook bemoaning the scheme
05:13pm 28/07/17 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
4031 posts

apparently it's only a clusterf*** if it's not available and you have one of those munty NBN-ready modems just begging for a plug in

you don't see Spook bemoaning the scheme
The difference is between FTTP and FTTN. FTTP is the old Labor unf***ed NBN and FTTN is the new ultra f***ed Liberal NBN.

If Spook was getting one of those s***** FTTN points which are looking to be worse than regular ADSL 2 then I bet he would be moaning.
05:30pm 28/07/17 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
2285 posts
God damn the f*****g liberals.

Why are you god damning the libs?
Everyone knew the clusterf*** which was their comms policy.

Blame the great unwashed public, that voted them in TWICE. We got the government we deserved.
05:42pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Geezer
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
3 posts
so does the topic just make for a good old stompy politically slanted rant or is greezey just really a deep fried potatoe loving dolt?

basically all Libs can do with any competance is takeover and f*** s*** up. at least they only f*** s*** up for their other Liberal cohorts, which is thoughtful of them
05:44pm 28/07/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12857 posts
I get a msg from TPG saying NBN will be here in October
I thought i will prolly just stay on the same plan which is
Optus $60 + bulls*** paper bill charge $4 landline included no calls
Speed near 30 mbps off peak 100 gig or something dunno never look at my usage

cheapest NBN plan $80 for 25 Mbps + theres a landline phone charge
So I will be paying more for less speed and extra phone chArges
but download is unlimited.

Theres a 2nd tier plan which is a gay 12mbps i think
WTF thats almost dial up speed
Maybe if i was 70 years old and checked email that would be good.

LABOR f***ed up The NBN by promising absolute bulls***
Then the Conservatives come in and sliced and diced to give us something affordable and less build time but with GAY PLANS
GAY GAY GAY GAY*

*Not that theres anything wrong with that.

Its another Mr Magoo screw up
GOD I HATE TURNBULL


https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18620343_10211182414374436_2578956945644622512_n.jpg?oh=75077dfd789a6e317e99de3206d2015d&oe=59F0544F


last edited by FaceMan at 17:56:43 28/Jul/17
05:54pm 28/07/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
748 posts
not really ya f***** dolty sack of potatoes :) it depends on the area. it's just ignorant to assume otherwise

have a client at work who just got FTTP installed in Coomera and she's pretty happy with it. it's not a half measure telco owned circuit with a coax leadin, it's the yellow coated fibre s*** into the NTU that's installed in the home office and not in the garage or next to the mains breaker cabinet
Oh Coomera, that's great. I don't live in f*****g Coomera. I'm already clearly talking about FTTN contracts, not FTTP contracts. Of course I realise some areas are FTTP in SEQ. That's what makes it even more insane is that I can move an hour south and I need a different router.

How the hell do you not find that dumb?
06:03pm 28/07/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
749 posts

Why are you god damning the libs?
Everyone knew the clusterf*** which was their comms policy.

Blame the great unwashed public, that voted them in TWICE. We got the government we deserved.

:( Fair call. Fair call. I guess collectively all you f**** ARE TO BLAME.

WHAT THE F***.

F*** YOU ALL.

06:05pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40710 posts
facey looking at worst nbn plans available and complaining.
06:12pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Geezer
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
4 posts
if you look back at how the NBNCo administration have funded and managed the provisioning among private investors, ever since it was politicised for votes in 2008 or so it's lost any of the pumped up expectations and unless you've been living on mobile you'd expect that the scheme was going to become a corporate telco handoff for service provisioning

the only regions who could be salty are maybe Trunbulls rural neighbours who had to hear about the rocket launching the magical NBN Satellite for Ozemail-azing 6Mbps future of bandwidth has arrived BS

oh the dinosaur even went to the trouble of taking a Lateline interview banging on about it's amazingness

when he's waxing lyrical and is just the face of a French satellite launch company with the NBNCo contract, all his neighbours lost

it's hard not to love watching a launch though

meh

last edited by Geezer at 18:32:49 28/Jul/17

last edited by Geezer at 18:34:15 28/Jul/17
06:25pm 28/07/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39087 posts
i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.
That's what my mate thought and now he's on the NBN and gets reasonably fast download speeds but way more packetloss which makes playing games suck. He was forcibly transitioned off slow but reliable DSL. So not sure how much I'd be looking forward to it yet, unless your current Internet is truly terrible.
07:31pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23840 posts
I can't even tell who is arguing what in this thread anymore, regardless of who's fault it is though, it's pretty clear to see we've ended up with a pretty poor end product. With all the extra work they've had to do laying new HFC and even new copper, they may as well just have laid fibre from the start.

At the rate technology is evolving, by the time the NBN is finished in 2020 (if it is), they'll have to start making plans to upgrade it. The bare minimum, to stream 4k Ultra HD video is 25mbps (from Netflix) and that's currently the maximum they promise on some connections. And that's not some future thing, that's right now, it struggles to meet the demands placed on it right now, let alone in the future.
07:32pm 28/07/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
750 posts
Nobody is arguing with anyone khel. I actually think nobody is even responding to anyone directly.

We are all confused and angry and we're all shouting at the sky.

I only just learned about HFC. Oh my.
07:57pm 28/07/17 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7678 posts
08:03pm 28/07/17 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4238 posts
should have been the OP context link

the rhetoric is not surprising really given the age, she'd probably be just as effective as a body double for Quentin Bryce if she wasn't a media muppet
09:43pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Psycho
Brisbane, Queensland
6296 posts
I finally got NBN last Thursday, went with Aussiebroadband who have been amazing. Bought a nice top of the line recommended router and a 100/40 plan...getting sweet performance, even in the so called peak periods. Sitting nicely on @ 95/38 generally So sweet to finally stream stuff at 1080p with no buffering etc everyone in the house can use the network and no one yells out, "who's downloading stuff?!" anymore.... Couldn't be happier. Compared to my previous ADSL it's like star trek tech for me now. :) Online Game performance is a LOT better...maybe I just got lucky finally.

last edited by Psycho at 22:53:09 28/Jul/17
10:51pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12233 posts

I've got FTTN. Best I can get is 30Mbps down (so 6Mbps better off than ADSL). I'm actually close enough to the pillar and node to get At least 75-80 in theory (via a DBYD request), but due to how they've looped the copper at the joins and things like that (NBN tech was telling me), they've added around 350m extra to my line length...f*****g FTTN. Whatever c*** brought that s*** in needs a good kick in the head.
10:57pm 28/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40711 posts
also facey, you can turn off paper bills for optus, just go into your account and say "no more paper" at the computer.
06:32am 29/07/17 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21314 posts
Lol the nbn is a mess because of a modem?

Drama queen
06:54am 29/07/17 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
7713 posts
09:27am 29/07/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12858 posts
Spook I dont allow Telstra or Optus access to my Bank Account.
Both have stuffed up my billing more than once

Once they can siphon money out you get poorer customer service.
I cant deal with phoning India and having to translate when there is a problem.

I think Im going to go with TPG.
Ive never not had Cable Internet and I better get at least 20mbps or MY GOD THERE IS GOING TO BE ONE HELL OF A RECKONING
10:50am 29/07/17 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
2736 posts
Still on ADSL2 off-net. I am worried about the NBN with the stuff I see on the news and online. I don't expect too much from it, except to be better than what I have. I am with Belong and they are a sub of Telstra. I pay 70 a month for 500gb which is pretty good. I just looked on their site about NBN and I could get Unlimited data, 25/5 speed, 12 month contract with free modem for $75 a month. I am assuming that it will be better actual real world speed than what I get now, the maximum for ADSL2 off net is like 20mbs, I get about 14-15, which I assume is because of distance to the exchange?
11:00am 29/07/17 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4239 posts
he's finding mixed whingey information about his modem that confirms being a potatoe is different than a pear and it's terribly confusing alright paveway

don't laugh at the potatoe you insensitive clod
11:05am 29/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40713 posts
Spook I dont allow Telstra or Optus access to my Bank Account.
Both have stuffed up my billing more than once

Once they can siphon money out you get poorer customer service.
I cant deal with phoning India and having to translate when there is a problem.


YES!!!! FIGHT THE CONVENIENCE!!!!
12:46pm 29/07/17 Permalink
meh
Brisbane, Queensland
38 posts
Yep agree, im happy with the NBN.

92mbs downloads 35mbs uploads @ speedtest.net consistently.

Telstra NBN fastest plan available $110 per month.

still 8x times faster than my old ADSL2 plan and only $30 a month /$7 a week more...

although I've seen the NZ speeds, sitting around 250mbs downloads.. Aussie internet still needs some work.
01:39pm 29/07/17 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4240 posts
the maldies bro's are too busy out poaching paua or flying back and forth on Jetstar to spend time saturating the networks with Netflux un chull bru
02:32pm 29/07/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12859 posts
problems in PommyLand too
Nearly seven million households should be given refunds on their broadband bills because they are not getting the designated minimum speed, MPs said yesterday.

Their cross-party committee said 6.7million of the country’s 22million broadband connections were slower than the proposed minimum download of 10 megabits per second. It also found that fewer than half of all connections were ‘superfast’ – above 24 megabits.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4741408/Millions-homes-cash-refund-broadband.html#ixzz4oC8DeMxH
03:17pm 29/07/17 Permalink
Psycho
Brisbane, Queensland
6297 posts


last edited by Psycho at 16:21:30 29/Jul/17
04:20pm 29/07/17 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3294 posts
It's ridiculous how bat s*** backwards Australia is sometimes.
05:46pm 29/07/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12235 posts

I am assuming that it will be better actual real world speed than what I get now, the maximum for ADSL2 off net is like 20mbs, I get about 14-15, which I assume is because of distance to the exchange?
Well, not necessarily. It depends. If you're in a FTTH or HFC then yes, you should get a much better experience (assuming your RSP is not under subscribing on CVC capacity to boost profit margins).

If you're in a FTTN area it is all based off your distance to the pillar and then from the pillar to the node. On top of that in FTTN areas they need to maintain ADSL backward comparability for 18 months, so for the first 18 months you might actually get slower speeds than your ADSL service (depending on your line length). Your uploads will be much better than before though, ADSL services were capped at 1Mbps so unless you get a 12/1 plan you will see at least a 5x improvement in your upload speed.

After 18 months the govt. guarantees you will get at least a 25Mbps sync rate (not real world download performance), but that is all they will guarantee. If you're in a FTTN area you will never see any improvement beyond 100/40 plans either (some right on the node will be able to get 130Mbps or something like that), at least not until they move you to FTTC. Once you go to FTTC you will be able to get up to 200Mbps down. People will HFC will be able to get 1Gbps and people with FTTH....well....the sky is the limit really compared to what anyone with FTTN will ever see.

last edited by Twisted at 20:11:07 29/Jul/17
08:10pm 29/07/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23740 posts
NBN should never have been built.
09:13pm 29/07/17 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4611 posts
12 megabits should be enough for anybody
04:59pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18412 posts
I have FTTP at my house. 100/40. It's so nice.


NBN should never have been built.


You clearly have no idea the amount of data people currently use and will be using in the short future. Not everyone lives like you Infi.

Having a decent upload bandwidth has been so damn useful, my personal and professional reasons.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 17:15:11 30/Jul/17
05:13pm 30/07/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23743 posts
I have FTTP at my house. 100/40. It's so nice.



You clearly have no idea the amount of data people currently use and will be using in the short future. Not everyone lives like you Infi.

Having a decent upload bandwidth has been so damn useful, my personal and professional reasons.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 17:15:11 30/Jul/17


I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought. The market should have been allowed to sort this one out, just like they did with mobile towers.
05:20pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Vash
5473 posts
The market had plenty of time to step in, Infi. They didn't. So it's the Government's job to get it done.
06:05pm 30/07/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12862 posts
I think Wireless will be the Future.
Speeds just keep increasing.

hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?

06:19pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18413 posts

I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought. The market should have been allowed to sort this one out, just like they did with mobile towers.


No, no I don't think the market should for this one. Having a solid high speed internet connection is becoming more and more required for 1st world living, it will quite likely contribute significantly to socioeconomic inequality in less than a decade if connection quality is too varied. It already causes problems in remote/rural areas, the market certainly isn't sorting that out .. kind of like how rural areas were ignored with mobile towers.

The irony being that if the staunch had of just accepted that from the start, the FTTP NBN would still be happening and such foreseeable waste that is FTTN would not have happened.

Also, lol at "I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought." AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 18:24:46 30/Jul/17
06:23pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4612 posts
the original promise of the NBN was not so much about faster movie downloads (although there is that) but a root and branches replacement of the ageing copper network

assuming that's a worthwhile objective I'm not sure how you achieve it in a purely market driven way
06:33pm 30/07/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39090 posts
Just started a Dota game with my NBN mate (staggrr) I mentioned above and was literally just about to ask him if he'd seen any improvement and he dropped out of Skype and disconnected

Basically the situation we have now is the worst of both worlds - we have the market trying to operate rationally but they can't because there's too much government intervention. But the government can't operate in the way it needs to because it will f*** up the market and the companies that are trying to operate.

Long-term readers might remember my suggestion from like 10 years ago that the government should have bought back Telstra :D
08:34pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12236 posts

the original promise of the NBN was not so much about faster movie downloads (although there is that) but a root and branches replacement of the ageing copper network
I think faster downloads is what people have really focused on. For me...my downloads are 5x better than they were, but my uploads are 20x quicker. In my case this is a game changer, 40x quicker would have been better but gone are the days where I have to maintain a 4G account just for uploading data files and work. Things like Dropbox, OneDrive, etc. all become instantly usable again for collaboration.
09:40pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23844 posts
I also think people focus far too much on the now, it was not meant to be a broadband network for now, it was meant to be a broadband network for the future. Just look at how much more we do with broadband now than we did 5 years ago, and s*** like this increases exponentially so how much more are people going to be doing in 5 years from now? And how can this NBN possibly hope to cope with it?
10:40pm 30/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40715 posts
hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?


you can get foxtel down the intenrets tubes.
05:47am 31/07/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
751 posts
I am glad a lot of people are chiming in to say how much they love their awesome NBN speeds (FTTP). This is what we should have been getting.
07:08am 31/07/17 Permalink
Arpey
New South Wales
180 posts
The problem as I see it is that people treat the internet like it's a luxury on par with pay TV when it's really an essential like water and electricity. Unfortunately the policy makers are all too old to see this is true and will just continue half-arsed internet rollout until they are replaced by people not blinkered by their childhoods huddled around the wireless listening to big band music.
10:50am 31/07/17 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10635 posts
hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?

They turn off DOCSIS, but Foxtel keeps coming down the cable. That's what happened here.
04:33pm 31/07/17 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
25950 posts
AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'
AKA f*** you, got mine.
05:54pm 31/07/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39091 posts
The problem as I see it is that people treat the internet like it's a luxury on par with pay TV when it's really an essential like water and electricity.
I think /Internet/ is an essential service (communication), but I don't think I agree that fibre performance-level Internet is essential. One of my (many) original complaints against the NBN was that it was far more important to provide everyone with a solid and reliable base level of Internet access first than making sure everyone had fibre.

I would encourage people to think about this in a "holistic" manner - what services do you think government should provide in order to maintain a base level of civilisation and comfort for its citizens? Thinking about it like this and trying to think about it consistently has basically informed my (current) entire political outlook!

If it's an essential service that you think the government is responsible for providing, you need to consider what other services the government needs to provide - for example, electricity, water, sewage, healthcare, education, etc - and their relative importance.

Internet is a little bit different to many of these because /some/ Internet is actually still really really useful. A kid living in the outback with a crappy wireless connection might not be able to stream Game of Thrones, but they can download a programming tutorial and create the next Angry Birds. This is (loosely) why I think the NBNs priorities are wrong.
05:59pm 31/07/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40717 posts
AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'
AKA f*** you, got mine.


you probs dont see infi facebook mode, but omg, hes got a heap of mates and relations that are EXACTLY THE SAME as him.

they get together and beat poor ppl and feel good about it!
06:45pm 31/07/17 Permalink
Slappercx
Brisbane, Queensland
1985 posts
Rocking 100/40 with Australian Online, No issues for me even during peak times : ) .

#oneoftheluckyones
11:06am 02/08/17 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11650 posts
FTTP here, i was happy with my adsl though, now i just pay more and use more power because i have to power their silly box as well as the modem
http://www.speedtest.net/result/6505055288.png
11:52am 02/08/17 Permalink
Ickus
Perth, Western Australia
613 posts
For me one of the big benefits of original NBN was to be the equalisation of service levels.

None of this crap up to X or Y depending on where your house happens to be, what the copper is like in your street or bad house wiring.

FTTN s**** all over any concept of service level equalisation as you can go from people with 100Mbps sync to people barely getting the 12Mbps minimum.

FTTC/dp goes a good way to making service levels a lot better across the board but is not being adopted by NBN enough, so it just makes a third type of maybe up to sometimes service.
12:29pm 02/08/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16767 posts
I think /Internet/ is an essential service (communication), but I don't think I agree that fibre performance-level Internet is essential. One of my (many) original complaints against the NBN was that it was far more important to provide everyone with a solid and reliable base level of Internet access first than making sure everyone had fibre.

I work for an RSP and can pretty categorically state that there are issues with FTTN. If solid and reliable was the goal for FTTN then its a bit of a fail, I don't really see what option there'd be than FTTP for that benchmark.

We now have a situation where the network is delivered via a s***load of technologies. Makes L1 support fun.

BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(
12:41pm 02/08/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
754 posts
F***.

Needed a new router so I got one from office works. It was all good, I got connected, good... really good speedtest results. >35mbps on 50/20 connection. But then streaming and skype issues appeared. Every 5-10 there would be a drop or a stopage of internet access. I would get a DNS not found error. Looked at the router stats and the SNR Margin (I think) is really low, at 6dB. So now I have the curse of good speeds but constant dropouts.

I think I agree with Trog, a stable reliable connection should be the goal of NBN. But I'd like to add: consistency of technology used to power the internet should account for something. I Imagine having to upgrade 5 different technologies is more complicated and expensive than having to upgrade just 1 type.
12:45pm 02/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12237 posts

For me one of the big benefits of original NBN was to be the equalisation of service levels.

None of this crap up to X or Y depending on where your house happens to be, what the copper is like in your street or bad house wiring.

FTTN s**** all over any concept of service level equalisation as you can go from people with 100Mbps sync to people barely getting the 12Mbps minimum.
Too right. Further into the future as people become more data hungry and tech savvy you're going to have your house price knocked down a peg because you just happen to have gotten the s*** end of the FTTN stick. If I was buying a house with FTTN I would want to know attainable rates and then if the speeds were s*** I would be taking the cost of a technology switch out of my offer. No different to doing the same if the house needed a bit of repair/reno work done.
12:45pm 02/08/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
755 posts
BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(


Jesucristo Trog! you allow McRapeTheEarth to plaster this site with their s*** yet wont take money from a local company?!
12:52pm 02/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39103 posts
Too right. Further into the future as people become more data hungry and tech savvy you're going to have your house price knocked down a peg because you just happen to have gotten the s*** end of the FTTN stick. If I was buying a house with FTTN I would want to know attainable rates and then if the speeds were s*** I would be taking the cost of a technology switch out of my offer. No different to doing the same if the house needed a bit of repair/reno work done.
The problem is noone is EVER going to get a constant download speed from any service. The Internet is a series of tubes that connects all over the world through a zillion points and systems - one thing you use will give you a happy 100mbit download on your fat new fibre and another thing will give you 5mbit because that's just how you happen to be connected to it.

This has been a constant source of confusion for civilians the entire time I worked in Internet-stuff; they simply don't understand that because they once downloaded at a really fast speed, they can't always download at that speed.
I work for an RSP and can pretty categorically state that there are issues with FTTN. If solid and reliable was the goal for FTTN then its a bit of a fail, I don't really see what option there'd be than FTTP for that benchmark.
yep totally seems to be the case. I have no real skin in the game in FTTN vs FTTP debate, although I do think that the only thing worse than the NBN's FTTP proposal was the FTTN proposal.
BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(
:( I think a lot of things for AG are on autopilot since I "left" so no idea what is happening. Feel free to do a forum post tho & I'm sure it won't get blown away :D
05:29pm 02/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12239 posts

The problem is noone is EVER going to get a constant download speed from any service.
That goes without saying, Internet connections (any network really) by is going to operate in on demand bursts. Its more relevant when you have lots of people streaming content at the same time and I think it is becoming more of a norm for short bursts of furious activity to last for hours (6PM-10PM) as people consume more media streaming services like Stan, Netflix, YouTube, etc., and file content services like Google Drive, OneDrive, and Dropbox. That's before you even add on porn, pirating, and all the other jazz. These are very real scenarios in a house with 2 adults and 4 teenagers :)

If you look at the Internet as a single single user single user point of view you would hardly ever require a 100/40 or above connection. Tell you what though, all these super fast speeds are turning people into digital hoarders.

last edited by Twisted at 21:33:07 02/Aug/17
09:31pm 02/08/17 Permalink
Psycho
Brisbane, Queensland
6298 posts
Saw an article recently of a guy that had two lines into his house, set up two broadband accounts and got them to shotgun in his router...consistently getting 190MBS download.

Hmmm, then I realised I have two lines into THIS house....hmmmm. Psycho might do something crwazy! "I feel the need, the need for speed!....."

Over here.
11:17pm 02/08/17 Permalink
jmr
Brisbane, Queensland
8301 posts
It's the backhaul that is going to be the issue, short run copper VDSL is fast as f***
08:40am 03/08/17 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1858 posts
I think Wireless will be the Future.
Speeds just keep increasing.

hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?



You can think all you want, wireless won't be the future for a number of reasons...

For a start, they don't just slap a dish in the ISP's yard and beam it out to everyone, they ALSO require a stable wired network.

On top of that, even if EVERYONE jumped on Wireless and somehow it worked without having a solid backbone network (spoiler: It wouldn't), the more people who use it, the slower it will get.

'Wireless is the future' is the call of the ignorant masses who don't know any better.
12:15pm 03/08/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16769 posts
It's the backhaul that is going to be the issue, short run copper VDSL is fast as f***

Short run VDSL on good quality copper is, yes.

These things are not always true in our FTTN network though. The best bit is that coexistence with ADSL makes many people's NBN upgrade path a downgrade for 18 months until the ADSL is retired.

How was this not anticipated?
This has been a constant source of confusion for civilians the entire time I worked in Internet-stuff; they simply don't understand that because they once downloaded at a really fast speed, they can't always download at that speed.

Again, working for an RSP this is not my experience. Consumers very often come to us with speedtest results, or at the very least understand that if we do a test against a known good source that different content providers may have different speed.
02:17pm 03/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39108 posts
Again, working for an RSP this is not my experience. Consumers very often come to us with speedtest results, or at the very least understand that if we do a test against a known good source that different content providers may have different speed.
REALLY?!!! Because every time I dealt with a customer using Speedtest they had it 180 degrees the wrong way and Speedtest was only ever their rationale for why there was a problem. e.g., "Speedtest tells me I get 30Mbps [from this source that is one hop away from my modem that my ISP has thoughtfully placed there], and yet when I try to download a file [from dodgycyka.ru on the other side of the planet] I only get 25Mbps therefore your Internet is a piece of S***!"

Your customers must be way smarter :D
05:20pm 03/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12240 posts
According to NBN Co 70% of traffic is now video streaming and they expect it to jump up to around 80%. That's a lot of pr0n flying down the wire.
09:10pm 03/08/17 Permalink
pARODY
Brisbane, Queensland
1201 posts
12:11pm 04/08/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
762 posts
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6511022382.png

Another successful FTTP installation!

Thanks Labor!
02:16pm 04/08/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23850 posts
Heh, faster than 98% of the country
02:46pm 04/08/17 Permalink
Vash
5475 posts
First Gigabit plans down at the gong.

https://myrepublic.net/au/gigatown-2/

Quite reasonable pricing.
03:05pm 04/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39112 posts
Heh just started a Skype meeting with someone in Australia right now - their NBN Internet has been offline for a month so she's talking to me over 4G!
05:37pm 04/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12242 posts
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6511700153.png

FTTN rocking it out. Currently 100/40 on a 1 month free trial with Aussie Broadband...trying to get someone in to rewire my house next week to get the DL's closer to 50 down. Have had some minor tweaks done by an NBN tech who came to fix the mess the last one left me with an open loop and no Internet/phone; that at least brought the speeds up from 30Mbps to 36Mbps. Have to change my plan over to 50/20 when I remember.

Thanks Malcolm and Tony...a*******s.

What is more depressing is that I'm faster than 91% of Australians apparently....
07:15pm 04/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39114 posts
Is your connection generally stable though Twister? i.e. no unusual dropped packets, mostly online, etc?
08:05pm 04/08/17 Permalink
BiKESEAT
Brisbane, Queensland
392 posts
It is a f*****g mess.

I got connected a month or so ago.

New house in a brownfield area. Never had a telstra line. The actual process of getting NBN to put a lead in wasn't so bad, took less than a week then another 4 for the tech to come back and jumper it.

The DYBD conduit lengths put me at 550m from the Node. The actual cable length according to the tech's tool is closer to 700m. The copper was so old at one point that he jumpered to he said "i've never seen this colour coding before, they didn't teach it when i did my training 10 years ago"

I sync at 60 down 16 up. It's remarkably stable given the 20 or so joints and very old cable, i had 29 days of uptime before I pulled the connection to pull a bit more cable through more from the pit and remove a joint in their boundary box.

My house is 170m from the boundary, so i run the modem out at the gate in an enclosure with fibre back to the house. If I hadn't of done that I'd be lucky to get 30mbit.

it's better than the 18 / 0.9 adsl, but my biggest concern is going forward - 10 years ago we had a 512k adsl line and 2 devices on wifi. Now I have 70 devices over 6 buildlings, 10 access points, 7 switches, 4 wireless bridges. Hows is 60mbit going to cope with that in a few years?

If FTTC becomes an upgrade option for $2k or less i'd jump on it. FTTH from where I am would be $20k+ so never an option.

last edited by BiKESEAT at 21:24:10 04/Aug/17
09:20pm 04/08/17 Permalink
BiKESEAT
Brisbane, Queensland
393 posts
Twisted you have some internal cabling issues based on your upload speed vs download.

Disconnect any extra sockets and run a single cat 6 cable from the entry point to the house to your connection point - it's not hard.
09:21pm 04/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12243 posts
Is your connection generally stable though Twister? i.e. no unusual dropped packets, mostly online, etc?
Yep, rock solid. I used to get a really bad connection on ADSL a few years back. I noticed my Internet would drop out when it rained. After weeks with whining at Telstra they came out and fixed up the pit. That probably went a long way to my FTTN connection being stable. Haven't had any drop outs that I'm aware of.
Twisted you have some internal cabling issues based on your upload speed vs download.
Yeah I think so too. I'm going to try get one of the cabling guys from the Whirlpool forums to come take a look and quote me for some work. My line in is in the kitchen which is unfortunate, because that's not really where I have my stuff. I have 2 additional ports. So I want to get him to:

- Move the line in into a cupboard just below where it currently is.
- Run new cabling to the other phone ports so they work when I sell this place and someone moves in who doesn't know what a mobile is.
- Run some CAT6 through the roof to the rooms back into this little cupboard.

Something like that...we'll see. Hoping to see improvements after disconnecting the other 2 phone ports though. I'm still in the ADSL coexistence period too for at least another 16 months.
If FTTC becomes an upgrade option for $2k or less i'd jump on it. FTTH from where I am would be $20k+ so never an option.
Wouldn't be much cheaper surely? They're still going to have to run the fibre down the street right?
09:41pm 04/08/17 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1667 posts
So I was with NBN FTTP fibre in Brisbane, paying 100$/month and loving it.

Recently I moved to the US, so for 80$/month I get this unlimited:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6513836825.png

Australia is going to get walked over by the rest of the world, NBN FTTP has massive upgrade potential, but FTTN is dead tech, Liberals completely messed it up by making it a political football.
12:01am 06/08/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40730 posts
wow.
08:25am 06/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39116 posts
"faster than 99% of the US"

That is bad ass!! But I'd say you are lucky in your choice of destination (I'm guessing Seattle so it's far less surprising that you can get great Internet there). There are many places in the US where their Internet options are worse than in Australia.

Spot on about the political football thing. The only way back from here is for them to say they were wrong, drop the CVC charges and fix the other major commercial complaints, and go back to fibre. But as they will never admit they were wrong because they are a bunch of spineless babies I think we're boned.
06:37pm 06/08/17 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18417 posts
I always wonder how much Murdoch whispered in specific ears to gimp the NBN
10:32pm 06/08/17 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4256 posts
yeah well it is Boston simul

11:32pm 06/08/17 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4260 posts
I always wonder how much Murdoch whispered in specific ears to gimp the NBN


an openly well kept secret maybe?

no surprise on the Murdochs' influence

eg https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/blog

last edited by trillion at 16:13:19 07/Aug/17
04:12pm 07/08/17 Permalink
Psycho
Brisbane, Queensland
6300 posts
02:11am 08/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12245 posts
Well these are f*****g s*** house numbers from NBN...

Maximum Attainable L2 Sync Rates for FTTN (sync rates, not chosen speed plan; take a few Mbps for real world results/overheads/etc.)

Speed % of FTTN customers
12-25Mbps 6%
25-50Mbps 29%
50-75Mbps 33%
75-100Mbps 32%

That's just f*****g embarrassing. Only 1 in 3 can actually achieve between 75 and 100Mbps sync rate. I dare say they wouldn't publish those who can actually get 100Mbps because it would be very low. I'm in the 29% that get 25-50 (38Mbps sync 36Mbps maximum real world result).
01:53pm 12/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39133 posts
really, I look at that and see 80+% of people are going to get more than 25Mbps, which I think is pretty good
06:07pm 12/08/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40753 posts
surely you jest?

25mpbs is a joke.
06:13pm 12/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39135 posts
Yeh but for only 6% of the NBN-connected population it's not too shabby; I would argue that it is in fact pretty excellent.

The relevant missing facts:

- how much does it cost to get that 6% up into the next bracket? But presumably noone will ever find that out
- the difference between 25Mbps and 50Mbps is pretty striking (I am on 25Mbps ADSL here in London and in the US I was on a 50Mbps cable service, so I know pretty much exactly that of which I speak). I would be very interested to see that category broken down into further brackets because if the majority of that bracket are clustered around 25Mbps (which I suspect they probably ARE, given typical ADSL speeds) then it is a very misleading figure.

My position for the NBN has always been: the most important thing, imho, is by far that the majority of people have /some/ broadband access, not that some proportion of people have excellent broadband access.

Haha, remember the good old days when everyone said we need to have FTTH and 100mbit so we can watch HD video, and then Netflix went and f***ed it all up by delivering 4K in under 25Mbps?!
06:56pm 12/08/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23755 posts
Those stuck on ADSL1 (my businesses) or 3g would just appreciate access to ADSL2. Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.

Consumers are expecting 100mbit for $100/month from the internet fairy i.e. the idiot taxpayer.
08:00pm 12/08/17 Permalink
Vash
5478 posts
Those stuck on ADSL1 (my businesses) or 3g would just appreciate access to ADSL2. Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.

Consumers are expecting 100mbit for $100/month from the internet fairy i.e. the idiot taxpayer.


So wheres the privately funded internet fairy? Interestingly absent.
It's up to the taxpayer to get it done, if a competent Government were elected (ie, Labor)
08:40pm 12/08/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23756 posts
if you knew the govt was going to roll out an uncommercial subsidised monopoly service, and they were going to pay you billions of dollars not to roll out your own infrastructure, would you resist and compete? or shutup and take the mountains of free cash?
09:02pm 12/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39138 posts
So wheres the privately funded internet fairy? Interestingly absent.
it is absent because the government has been stomping around the market for years f*****g EVERYTHING up

the only rational thing for them to do is stay out of it. The NBN has been ACTIVELY stopping companies from stepping in to provide a better service, including taking them (TPG IIRC?) to court to block them from fibre deployments in some places. It's a mess.

The market cannot operate when there is a totally irrational actor in there splashing money around with no regard to price or quality of service.
10:07pm 12/08/17 Permalink
Vash
5480 posts
That's only once the NBN was already in formation that they actively took action to stop TPG.
Ideally, if Telstra was never sold they would have been able to implement fiber far sooner. But we needed that quick cash surplus to make the LNP look like good economic managers. Nowadays they've just run out of things to sell.
There was no incentive for Telstra to replace it's copper network with fiber, there just isn't enough of a market in Australia for a return on the investment. Which is why the LNP switched over to FTTN, if even Government finds FTTP to expensive, then surely its too much for a privately owned entity.
10:14pm 12/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39139 posts
That's only once the NBN was already in formation that they actively took action to stop TPG.
It doesn't matter when they did it - it matters that they're stomping around interfering with the operation of the market.
Ideally, if Telstra was never sold they would have been able to implement fiber far sooner.
Yes, privatising Telstra was the first step into this being totally broken.

I was an partial advocate of privatising Telstra at the time because I thought the competition was the only way things were going to improve. But now I wish it had never been sold and they had simply been required to plunge their profits into network upgrades because I think Australia would have been much better off as a whole. They still effectively dictate conditions for the majority of Australians but all of the benefits now go to shareholders instead of citizens.
12:06am 13/08/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23864 posts
Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.


Because its often a custom install, for the benefit of a single paying customer, of course its going to cost more. Roll it out to entire streets/suburbs/cities and you have many, many, many more paying customers to offset the cost, you don't need to charge $800 a month then. Economy of scale and all that jazz
02:22am 13/08/17 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21328 posts
They still effectively dictate conditions for the majority of Australians but all of the benefits now go to shareholders instead of citizens.


Absolutely, i don't think there has been any real benefit to privatising telstra except for the quick hit of cash to the government
02:30pm 13/08/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39141 posts
I have been thinking heavily about privatisation recently, mostly in the context of electricity providers (we had to renew our plan recently so it has been in my brain), but this problem was obvious for Telstra as well.

The biggest issue is that in many cases there is a shared resources that is basically being split off and distributed amongst a variety of different providers. The idea is that competition among these providers will lead to lower costs and better service for subscribers.

But what is (often? sometimes?) ignored is the fact that for these new entities to compete, a certain amount of money needs to be diverted to normal competitive costs - marketing, sales, etc. Anyone that has been exposed to any of these large companies knows how much time, effort and money is spent on their marketing efforts.

This works fine in the free market where companies have always been responsible for creating their own products, maintaining them, upgrading them, etc. It is a completely normal part of doing business. But I don't think it works well when the "product" is something like infrastructure.

So my new hypothesis is that, for privatisation to be worth it, the VALUE created by that competition has to clearly and unequivocally exceed the COST of that competition existing. And I think it's super hard (if not totally impossible) to take that into account at sale time because at the time the market doesn't exist and noone knows what the cost of competition will be, except that it will basically definitely go up.

This might not be a particularly insightful observation; this kind of analysis is almost certainly done all the time in privatisation movements and I bet it shows that well DUH obviously the taxpayers are going to better off because of X Y Z. But there's only going to be a more or less fixed pool of revenue that suddenly many entities are scrabbling over - the competition is going to soak up a lot of value. And the first thing (at least in telcos) that seems to take a hit is network upgrades & maintenance.

Sadly not much can be done about it without completely wrecking the market even worse; the lesson here is to be extremely wary of privatising industry for short term benefit
08:39pm 13/08/17 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11664 posts
You're absolutely right trog, and add onto that now these firms want to make a profit too.

Essentially if you're going from administration by a publicly controlled entity to being done by multiple private entities, you'd have to really be convinced the public entity was so incredibly, almost unbelievably inefficient and almost impossibly wasteful to think that a private corporation, who wants to turn a profit either for themselves or for shareholders, is going to be cheaper for the consumer.

Yeah nah. Maybe the old shorts-and-long-socks public service might have once been that inefficient in some areas, but even anna 1.0 was putting the screws on even before candy newman came in and ensured that there wasn't enough staff for even the core work to take place. Seriously, a dangerous amount of facets of public services are running off the good work done by staff prior to all the sackings in 2012-2013 or whenever it was.
10:20pm 13/08/17 Permalink
Vash
5482 posts
I agree trog, i've thought that for quite some time, privatising vital infrastructure is a path to high prices & monopoly.
Toll roads as an example, where there is simply no competition viable, unless you build multiple roads on top of each other and they compete with each other for who uses their road to get to the same location.
Much the same for the copper, fiber & electricity networks.

Leave the private markets competing with each other for product, not services infrastructure.
10:01pm 14/08/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23757 posts
So we should have a government monopoly 4g network?
10:08pm 14/08/17 Permalink
Vash
5483 posts
So we should have a government monopoly 4g network?


Absolutely. Prices will be driven down, and more of the band would be available to everyone as one big network instead of tendered off to a few big players.
10:14pm 14/08/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12253 posts
Well, a few hundred $'s later and re-cabling of my phone line and my Internet speeds have increased from 38Mbps sync speed to 60Mbps sync speed. F*****g coalition...that'll be the best case scenario I'll ever be able to achieve at this house though. There was a lot of corrosion on the line into the house which the guy cut away which seemed to help a lot.
07:23pm 12/09/17 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
2772 posts
Glad to hear your interboobs is working better, Twisted.

I checked last week on the NBN site with my address and apparently I will get FTTC. The estate I'm living in is 7 years old so I imagine that has something to do with it.

I was talking to my old man on the phone the other day and he was whining about the electricity prices and said to me, If I ever become a politician, never sell any assets. Perhaps we can nationalise Telsta but I imagine that would be a huge dirty mess with lots of piss and vinegar.
07:46pm 12/09/17 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
838 posts
If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.
10:02pm 12/09/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39176 posts
If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.
The Greens were strong proponents of Labor's original FTTH vision

Nice attempt to deflect the conversation politically onto a party that literally could not have anything less to do with the current set of problems though. Maybe you should sign up to Twitter
11:00pm 12/09/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12254 posts
Maybe you should sign up to Twitter
Fark that! He's probably got what it takes to be the next big thing on radio. Forget the facts, just put a microphone in front of him yesterday!
11:41pm 12/09/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
801 posts

If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.

F*** off but before that go read their policies instead of being a tard:
https://greens.org.au/policy
https://greens.org.au/sites/greens.org.au/files/20160617_Greens_NBN.pdf
10:45am 13/09/17 Permalink
Zenmaster
Queensland
30 posts
sometimes, when my wife is asleep early I put QGL.org into my Chrome on my iPad and ask my young children (who really, really need to go to bed) to read out the responses to threads like these, while pretending that I'm Deadpool.


It's fun in a way with most of them ( and blah blah blah you don't care ) something something.


I'm only saying this as there is someone at work who never misses an AG entry on subjects like these and we need to know where she is right.... now ;)


thank you for your time gentlemen - please... as you were
05:50pm 16/09/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23903 posts
What?
08:30pm 16/09/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12259 posts
I think he's saying he's deliberately exposing his kids to Internet trolls.
09:05pm 16/09/17 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
149 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: stupid offtopic bulls***
Send Private Message
01:30am 17/09/17 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18445 posts
Australian Sex Party. Join it.
09:26am 17/09/17 Permalink
Psycho
Brisbane, Queensland
6307 posts
Maximum Attainable L2 Sync Rates for FTTN (sync rates, not chosen speed plan; take a few Mbps for real world results/overheads/etc.) Speed % of FTTN customers 12-25Mbps 6% 25-50Mbps 29% 50-75Mbps 33% 75-100Mbps 32% That's just f*****g embarrassing. Only 1 in 3 can actually achieve between 75 and 100Mbps sync rate. I dare say they wouldn't publish those who can actually get 100Mbps because it would be very low. I'm in the 29% that get 25-50 (38Mbps sync 36Mbps maximum real world result).


I must be one of the lucky ones. Consistently getting 90-100 down and 35-40 up. It did dip to the mid 70's one night, but only for like 40 minutes and away it went again. Love watching files that used to takes hours to download on Steam take minutes. :) Haven't had a drop out once since joining with Aussiebroadband, very happy with them indeed.
07:29pm 17/09/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12305 posts
Might as well revive this thread rather than start a new one. Some latest figures from NBN Co of the % of customers on each technology that can achieve 100Mbps or more if they choose.

https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Utils/ImageResizer.ashx?n=https://i.nextmedia.com.au/News/NBN_100Mbps_or_more.png&h=600&w=600&c=0

FTTN is bloody depressing...
08:41pm 16/01/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21471 posts
Look how much better the liberal's fibre to the node idea is
09:05pm 16/01/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23997 posts
Those HFC stats don't seem right considering how much trouble they've had with HFC connections lately
09:24pm 16/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12308 posts
Those HFC stats don't seem right considering how much trouble they've had with HFC connections lately
The stats are right. They have the potential for 100Mbps+. The stats don't tell you if you'll have a working connection though :) I've seen NBN doing more HFC rollouts, in and around some areas in Kedron. But I'm assuming they won't be doing any activations for some time.
01:10pm 17/01/18 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
6614 posts
I'm not with NBN, but Opticomm. It not as cheap as NBN but on my 100/40 i always get my speeds.
04:56pm 17/01/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39419 posts
I've seen NBN doing more HFC rollouts, in and around some areas in Kedron.
Wat, really? Is that not weird? I thought Telstra stopped doing HFC rollouts ages ago
06:37pm 17/01/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11750 posts
Wat, really? Is that not weird? I thought Telstra stopped doing HFC rollouts ages ago
The NBN bought the HFC network off telstra for a billionty dollars to hasten the rollout.

Really.
07:47pm 17/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12309 posts
Wat, really? Is that not weird? I thought Telstra stopped doing HFC rollouts ages ago
I mean NBN rollouts on the HFC network :) Though in some cases they do replace the HFC infrastructure or boost it to handle the increased usage requirements.
07:58pm 17/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18511 posts

I was an partial advocate of privatising Telstra at the time because I thought the competition was the only way things were going to improve.


Generally it is. The major exception to to this is when the thing being privatized is a major piece of national infrastructure that is vital the health and well-being of almost every citizen of that nation.
This risk of questionable business behaviours, unethical practices and detrimental outcomes for what are essentially dependent customers driven by an overarching compulsion by the business to make profit isn't worth the potential efficiencies gained from a private market that may or may not have a healthy competition.

It was made worse in this case as the privatized company was a near monopoly from the start, representing a significant investment barrier for other potential service providers.

Telecommunications, health services, water, electricity. These are the things that should not be predominantly driven by private enterprise. There are probably a couple more that I can't think of at the moment.

IMO they are absolute necessary as part of a minimal government, anything less is inviting needless suffering.
08:37pm 17/01/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39420 posts
I mean NBN rollouts on the HFC network :) Though in some cases they do replace the HFC infrastructure or boost it to handle the increased usage requirements.
right, cool. Yeh I thought you meant they were literally rolling out more cable to new addresses which would have blown my mind.
10:03pm 17/01/18 Permalink
BOOST
Brisbane, Queensland
777 posts
Does anyone know if fibre could be distributed from the nodes to houses in future? Instead of running exchange > house it would be node > house?
11:14am 18/01/18 Permalink
foolix
Brisbane, Queensland
167 posts
right, cool. Yeh I thought you meant they were literally rolling out more cable to new addresses which would have blown my mind.

That is precisely what they are doing. A local example, my unit block in indooroopilly (and every other one in the suburb) that didn't have any existing cable to it is getting ALL NEW HFC run through it in external and internal ducting. As opposed to running fibre or hell even FTTB and use the existing building copper would have been better.
04:01pm 18/01/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23999 posts
Yep, same for my apartment building, got no foxtel cable or anything at the moment anywhere around me, but they're laying new HFC for the NBN and even doing a bunch of custom work to bring the cable into the apartment complex and out to every apartment. Well, they were, but now its been delayed 6 to 9 months while they sort out all their f***ups
04:24pm 18/01/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39422 posts

That is precisely what they are doing. A local example, my unit block in indooroopilly (and every other one in the suburb) that didn't have any existing cable to it is getting ALL NEW HFC run through it in external and internal ducting. As opposed to running fibre or hell even FTTB and use the existing building copper would have been better.
https://trog.qgl.org/up/1205/mind-blown.gif

I am actually looking for a flat in Indro at the moment so will be checking for that now. I don't mind getting HFC in a small block but in a big block wouldn't it be a recipe for disaster?
04:46pm 18/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12311 posts
Ya they do roll out new HFC. So if you're in a HFC pocket and don't have any HFC around you, you might get it rolled out or you won't. The disadvantage is they need to trench everywhere so they can run the cable. This includes digging a trench across your driveway that they typically (at least temporarily) stuff with bitumen. Pretty sure the councils crack the s**** over it.

For example....

https://i.imgur.com/sJhE0HD.jpg

So, aqua is existing overhead HFC cabling area. Red is new FTTN. Green is new HFC rollout. For the new HFC rollout that is a complete rollout of HFC digging up the side walks, driveways, etc. That, is the multi-mix technology solution from the Govt. If they were going to dig up all the side walks and trench to the houses anyway, I don't know why they just didn't roll out fibre. Then to save money they doomed everyone in the red area to s*** house Internet on FTTN.
05:54pm 18/01/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39424 posts
I was driving out to UQ last week and there were a bunch of trucks along Hawken Dv (right at the uni end) working on the cables. I thought they were doing electrical work but maybe they were stringing up HFC there?
07:20pm 18/01/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21473 posts
Ya they do roll out new HFC. So if you're in a HFC pocket and don't have any HFC around you, you might get it rolled out or you won't. The disadvantage is they need to trench everywhere so they can run the cable. This includes digging a trench across your driveway that they typically (at least temporarily) stuff with bitumen. Pretty sure the councils crack the s**** over it.

For example....

https://i.imgur.com/sJhE0HD.jpg

So, aqua is existing overhead HFC cabling area. Red is new FTTN. Green is new HFC rollout. For the new HFC rollout that is a complete rollout of HFC digging up the side walks, driveways, etc. That, is the multi-mix technology solution from the Govt. If they were going to dig up all the side walks and trench to the houses anyway, I don't know why they just didn't roll out fibre. Then to save money they doomed everyone in the red area to s*** house Internet on FTTN.


interesting they are open excavating to lay new conduits, initially with the NBN (the good nbn) if they needed to install new conduits it was all done with underboring along the verges.

if you drove through an area that was getting NBN back in the day you used to see these on the sides of the streets a fair bit. my street was no exception when they laid the fibre

https://www.retrade.eu/i/detail/1416828-IMG_2942.JPG/Vermeer_Navigator_D7X11A_Underboringsmaskine___Vermeer_Navigator_D_7X11A_Drilling_machine.jpg

(i have FTTH)
08:38am 19/01/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39425 posts
If they were going to dig up all the side walks and trench to the houses anyway, I don't know why they just didn't roll out fibre.
Yeh that seems staggeringly weird. Maybe for some reason it's way way easier & cheaper to extend HFC, although I can't imagine why this would be the case.
03:42pm 19/01/18 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3348 posts
We've even got fibre to the home in Cape Town now, so that's a fairly good measure of how far behind Aus is on this one!
06:22pm 19/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12312 posts
We've even got fibre to the home in Cape Town
Today I used my hose to cool the road for a few hours. outside my house so it was cooler for the ants to cross the road :p Eh...bad taste joke I suppose. But yeah...when I lived in South Africa it was never a backward place excluding the oppression of black people. Though everywhere I moved afterwards people used to be surprised that there were side walks...KFC....etc.
07:24pm 19/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18513 posts

Yeh that seems staggeringly weird. Maybe for some reason it's way way easier & cheaper to extend HFC, although I can't imagine why this would be the case.


I swear to god, the only way it makes rational sense that Abbott, Turnbull and friends pushed so hard for FTTN even with reams of expert opion backed with evidence that is was easily the inferior version it likely wouldn't save money and contribute to confusions and cost blowouts .... is that the NBN was deliberatly sabotagued for either an attempt at political gain by The Liberals ('oh, see, see how bad Labor are! Seee the emergencies! Vote for us moaaarr!') or ol mate Ruburt Murdoch did not want such good quality internet bandwidth available to a population that he is quite happy taking money from using stupidly expensive pay-tv and other mediea... Or a bit of both.

It would be most sad indeed if it was neither and these pollies literally had no f*****g idea, were super ignorant and so self-absorbed with over-inflated egp's that they think they knew better than the experts?
01:22am 20/01/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4354 posts
NBNCo has always seemed like the CabCharge of the telco industry, there's probably a lot more similarities than differences anyway
04:53am 20/01/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4355 posts
Does anyone know if fibre could be distributed from the nodes to houses in future? Instead of running exchange > house it would be node > house?


afaik aggregate fibre switching gear needs active cooling and more rackspace for less switching density than FTTN cabinets delivering VDSL services do, so no probably not unless the thermal requirements for fibre switching change and switching density improves
03:55pm 20/01/18 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3349 posts
Well we only just got fibre to the home in the past couple months Twisted! It's nowhere near as backward as people think for sure, but it's defo well behind most 1st world countries on the service delivery side of things imo.
03:02am 21/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12314 posts
Does anyone know if fibre could be distributed from the nodes to houses in future?
Do you mean from the FTTN cabinet to your house? No, they need to roll out more infrastructure. Which is why when you put in a quote for FTTP and you're 200m from the node, you might still get stung with a $10,000 TCP (technology choice program) quote. Someone summarised some of the costs for those that went ahead with a technology switch from FTTN to FTTP here (you can't do a technology switch from HFC to FTTP).
01:01pm 21/01/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4357 posts
weird, I know of a place that has both NBN HFC and FTTP NTU’s
01:34pm 21/01/18 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
19163 posts
looks like nbnco is finally installing fibre at toowong. rocked up to work and there's a truck with a giant spool of green cabling in front of the building.
09:20am 22/01/18 Permalink
funky
Canada
1922 posts
i'm moving into Toowong on the weekend actually, fairly certain when I checked out NBN for the address the possible time line is january to june 2019 for where my apartment is
03:18pm 24/01/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11751 posts
yeah, it was about a year between the time the nbn guys started doing a rough in of fibre in the pits to the time they actually said thunderbirds are go
07:22pm 24/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12316 posts
About the same for me, close to a year.
08:37am 25/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18516 posts
Yeah it was about 1 year for me too, FTTP.

The actual work, digging and laying cables was fairly quick, however for whatever reason it took them 6+ months to finally switch it on. Once it was switched on, I remained with iiNet as Skymesh wasn't available to my area :(

It took only a couple of hours from when I told iiNet to switch me over to when I was using it.

Had a rocky start, peak times progressively got worse, the 100/40 connection was maybe hitting 25 during peak, sometimes lower. I got cranky at iiNet who then credited me some time, etc

However eventually they got their s*** together and it is near 100/40 most of the time now.
Right now is:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7006388060.png


last edited by Tollaz0r! at 11:19:04 28/Jan/18
11:17am 28/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12317 posts
however for whatever reason it took them 6+ months to finally switch it on.
They have to complete at least 80% of an area before it can go retail I think. That's what someone told me once.
06:40pm 28/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40970 posts
i am mad jelly on that toll.
06:22am 29/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18517 posts

They have to complete at least 80% of an area before it can go retail I think. That's what someone told me once.


You're probably right on that, what I found odd was that it seemed that activity in the area finished and I didn't notice anything happening for quite some time. Unless there were some magic streets tucked away that had a lot of activity happening.

Unless by 'area' they mean more than just the area the box thing near our house services and it is all of those boxes that get served by the next bigger box.. I used to know what the names of these things were lol.

At either rate, it was a sucky long wait.

It's a double edged sword Spook. On one hand it is great to have, on the other f*** living in an area that doesn't have at least a 50up consistent connection, which makes my other half a bit RAGE as it limits where I'm willing to move to if we choose to sell the house.

She's like 'ohh look at this place' and I'm all 'hey that looks nice, big patteo and I like the fireplace! ... hmm ... no NBN and set to only have FTTN .. and well .. those copper lines probably aren't so shiny anymore ... nnoopppeee'.
09:45am 29/01/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21481 posts
yes i have accepted that i can never move from my house, ever.
10:10am 29/01/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11753 posts
I'd hate to be so beholden to my internet that it'd affect so many other aspects of my life

I begrudgingly moved to NBN, opting for the 25/5 speeds. I never have a scenario where i wish my internet were faster. And whilst I am happy to have FTTP for simply for the reduced risk of degradation of line reliability, it most certainly wouldn't factor into my thinking whatsoever about choice of house, so long as it had some type of reliable internet connection that was able to attain on or around the average Australian internet speed (about 24mbps i think?).
09:26pm 29/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40972 posts
I'd hate to be so beholden to my internet that it'd affect so many other aspects of my life


even when i did move house years ago, internet quality at any new location for living was one of the first things i investigated.

last edited by Spook at 06:04:29 30/Jan/18
06:02am 30/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18518 posts
I've got a household were streaming is a common thing.

A 25/5 connection just isn't good enough to have reliable, hassle free bandwidth heavy internet at any time regardless of what anyone in the house is doing.

Also, I really, really, really enjoy the low latency. I also do things now like the occasional remote gaming during lunchtime at work, streaming plex, etc I have plex set-up for some friends too.

On that note, I can play certain FPS games remotely and it's enjoyable.

For example, I can play Subnautica from the Work PC using Steam In-Home Streaming (plus Hamachi) and it feels almost the same as playing it on the PC at home, the input latency is around about 2-5ms extra..

Counter Strike doesn't quite work though, the extra time on rendering the frame + input latency is noticeable enough to interrupt hitscan type multiplayer gaming it seems.

So I really do utilize the low latency and higher bandwidths of FTTP NBN, although it did take around a year to work up the use to the point where it is now (and a new router which can handle such loads, the 'NBN ready' router that iiNet gave us was totally inadequate).

Oh I also do some work from home which can involve downloading and uploading large data sets and video, and it's certainly handy having 100/40 connection for that!
08:29am 30/01/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
24003 posts
so long as it had some type of reliable internet connection that was able to attain on or around the average Australian internet speed (about 24mbps i think?)


Average australian internet speed is way, way lower than 24mbps, its more like 9mbps. We aren't even in the top 50 countries when it comes to internet speed, its embarassing.

Whether you want to be beholden to it or not, its 2018, the internet already affects many aspects of modern life and its only going to become more and more of an issue as time marches on. If I was buying a house then internet access would absolutely be an important factor, considering you're probably looking at living there long term, even if its not something you want now its going to be something you want/need in a few years time.
12:23pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12318 posts
I never have a scenario where i wish my internet were faster.
But you're old with old world thinking. The possibilities of the future are beyond you. I think its awesome that your 25/5 meets your needs, probably the same way I think its cute that my mum is stoked to have figured out how to log into Facebook. I just need to look at what my wife is doing. She does photography and other digital media work that she's trying to ramp up so she can leave finance. Before I got NBN a single raw image would take 96 seconds to upload, now its 5 seconds (it would be 2 seconds if I had FTTP....). She's able push video content online super fast and get it out to customers way faster than before and more importantly, the Internet doesn't become unusable while she's doing it. This means that when I'm working from home, I don't suddenly get my connection dropped or insane latency.
03:01pm 30/01/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11754 posts
Do you all not look on the internet with hate, at what it has become? Once a nice-to-have, it is now negatively impacting your life options, because of the seeming mandatory nature of it?
04:25pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
24005 posts
I'm sure they said the same thing about the printing press too. Theres nothing inherently negative about the internet, its what people do with it that causes problems. End of the day some people are d**** and are always going to be d****, whether they're using ink on papyrus hundreds of years ago, or posting on social media tomorrow. No reason to hate technology just cos people are d****.

I don't want to be my parents in 20 years time, my mother is literally afraid of computers because she avoided them for so long and didn't want anything to do with them, now struggles to do anything at all and is too overwhelmed by it all to learn. You either ride the wave of progress or you get swallowed up by it.
04:35pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12319 posts
Do you all not look on the internet with hate, at what it has become? Once a nice-to-have, it is now negatively impacting your life options, because of the seeming mandatory nature of it?
What are you even talking about? There's nothing mandatory about the Internet. I'm not sure what has gone on in your life, maybe you need to speak up about how the Internet has ruined your life and so negatively impacted it. The Internet is nothing more than a tool that has helped facilitate, in my case, better work life balance. It has allowed me to almost triple the amount of time I get to spend with my kids on weekdays. Nothing else in recent memory has done that for me. Are there things to dislike about the Internet? Sure. But then again there's things to dislike about a lot of things.
06:30pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18519 posts

Do you all not look on the internet with hate, at what it has become? Once a nice-to-have, it is now negatively impacting your life options, because of the seeming mandatory nature of it?


I'm not sure why you think it is negatively impacting life options? I simply would like to move to an area that has good or better internet connection, as it can really help a number of aspects of the stuff that I enjoy doing.

Why should I want to live without stuff that I enjoy? What kind of life would that be?
07:08pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40975 posts
Do you all not look on the internet with hate, at what it has become? Once a nice-to-have, it is now negatively impacting your life options, because of the seeming mandatory nature of it?


everything single thing i do comes from the intenret.

work/sport/entertainment/music/news/friends/games

there is nothing negative about my internets.
07:16pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
2180 posts
Do you all not look on the internet with hate, at what it has become? Once a nice-to-have, it is now negatively impacting your life options, because of the seeming mandatory nature of it?


I think you are confusing internet with social media.

there is nothing negative about my internets.


What about when I post superior arguments against mandatory helmet laws for cyclists? I am pretty sure that is having a negative impact on you.
09:48pm 30/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40976 posts
I think you are confusing internet with social media.


i think you are confused. social media is awesome.

What about when I post superior arguments against mandatory helmet laws for cyclists? I am pretty sure that is having a negative impact on you.


luckily for me that hasnt happened yet.

u really need to see the awesome facey video im sharing now about commuting to work on a bike. Its all about truth and science and how to ride a bike properly. But you cant, because you dont understand how to use social media.
06:19am 31/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40978 posts
(70% less likely to get head injuries if wearing a helmet)
07:16am 31/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18520 posts
(85% more likely to be a hero when wearing a helmet)
09:12am 31/01/18 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40979 posts
what percentage do you think car drivers are less likely to give sufficient distance to a bicycle rider wearing a helmet?
07:43pm 31/01/18 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
18522 posts
-50%?
10:14pm 31/01/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21484 posts
hey guys hardware is happy with ADSL internet speed

therefore everyone else should be too, how could you even consider needing more?!?!?!
08:35am 01/02/18 Permalink
Zenmaster
Queensland
43 posts
meh
12:52am 05/02/18 Permalink
Ickus
Perth, Western Australia
630 posts
While I dislike the base design of how they did FTTN and the NBN's minimum speed of 25Mbps... my change from ADSL to FTTN was a good one.

I went from 10/1 to 60/20, which with a household of 4 users was a significant improvement.

Its still not as good as it could be based on SQ/cable length but for now its good enough to not worry about trying to get the extra 20-30Mbps I might be able to get.
12:17pm 05/02/18 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
19165 posts
well i'm currently having a hell of a time trying to get fttp hooked up with telstra. god damn they're incompetent.
06:17pm 05/02/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12320 posts
I went from 10/1 to 60/20, which with a household of 4 users was a significant improvement.
Yep, same for me. I don't think anyone is whining about the improvements they've had. But at the end of the day you can have 1 guy at 1 end of your street who can get 16-25Mbps down and another guy getting 100/40. How such a situation arose is a joke. I mean I look at one of the new estates a bit down the road from where I live. 1 side of the street has FTTN where over 80% of the houses will never achieve greater than 50Mbps. The other side of the street is 100% of houses have the opportunity to go as far as possible on FTTP because they were built 6 months later....scary stuff and it boggles the mind when you think they have to come back through and do it all again.
11:06pm 05/02/18 Permalink
Spock
Brisbane, Queensland
2259 posts
And it will be painted as a good thing at the time 'because of more jobs'
08:12am 09/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4360 posts
nah they’re not incompetent, they just don’t care as much about you if you’re not in a greenfield estate

as far as serviceability, you’re not preferred. much different than incompetant.

06:03pm 09/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11757 posts
Upgraded from 25/5 to 50/20, because it was the same price (iinet new plans).
Am not going to tell anyone in my family, and I'm going to ask them in a month if they notice anything.

They'll say no, because the vast majority of people don't need more than about 15 or 17 meg.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7071528370.png
08:14am 20/02/18 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
26253 posts
They'll say no, because the vast majority of people don't need more than about 15 or 17 meg.
Won't they know the first time they download something and the speeds are vastly different?
10:27am 20/02/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
897 posts
Won't they know the first time they download something and the speeds are vastly different?

Most people don't really download much these days. I see the effect (of high ping) when I ssh into work and it chugs.

After mulling it over, I totally agree with Trog is saying. Stability and consistency of service are paramount. I'd rather have a solid 20 than a roller coaster ride of 10-80 down.

FYI, I've moved to Cabo (send help) and the internet is much much better. Must be all the bogans that use internet, but I get good speeds.
10:54am 20/02/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12323 posts
Am not going to tell anyone in my family, and I'm going to ask them in a month if they notice anything.

They'll say no, because the vast majority of people don't need more than about 15 or 17 meg.
Cool story bro. You should put that to paper and publis** You are comparing apples and oranges. People like you would still have us rubbing our arses on grass or across dirt because you would claim you couldn't tell the difference between those options and toilet paper. Luddites are lucky that there are enough people making change happen that they get the experience the benefits they often rail against.
Most people don't really download much these days.
Well that is just not true at all. Across the board data usage has increased many times over.
11:02am 20/02/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39477 posts
Well that is just not true at all. Across the board data usage has increased many times over.
I think (maybe) hardware is differentiating between 'downloading' as a specific term to download a file vs 'streaming' (which is obviously still downloading).

I've been at my parents place for almost 2 months now & from observing their habits they basically never 'download' as in click on a link to expect a file to download. Everything is web-based. Their entertainment is Netflix+AppleTV. The speed of their connection (50mbit cable) is totally wasted on them in most instances.

Even for me I think it's not worth it because outside of a few specific things I rarely get about 25mbit download speeds off the wire anyway (I am the only person in the house plugged directly into the modem, everyone else is on wifi, so I know I'm not suffering from wifi-itis or anything weird). One of those specific things IS Steam downloads though so I am glad I have it, but if it was the difference between paying $100/mo for 50mbit vs $50/mo for 25mbit I'd be hard-pressed to pay for the extra.

So while data usage has increased many times over I would say most of it is transparent to users in the sense that they're now just streaming more stuff and as long as it streams reliably they basically never notice how 'fast' it's actually coming down the wire. Netflix can do HD content in as little as 5Mbit now; my parents can barely tell the difference between SD and HD anyway (I fixed their Foxtel setup so they now get HD, they've been watching SD TV for the last few years, argh) so as long as Netflix is not BUFFERING BUFFERING BUFFERING they will be happy.

This is not to say that some people won't benefit from fast speeds, or be happy paying for faster speeds if they're available, or can get great advantage from fast speeds, or that they might not get strong advantage from fast speeds later. Just that it's important to remember that other people have totally different Internet needs to people like us.
11:53am 20/02/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
900 posts
What trog said regarding "downloading". Especially with the advances in streaming technologies, video encoding, etc. It's amazing how good Netflix looks with a s***** unstable connection. What's even more amazing is netflix changing the quality on the fly with very little interruption. In this mode of "downloading" you never see speed issues. But if you're actively downloading something and observing the speed, you'll get real s*****.

Even illegal streaming sites are getting better and better. It's absolutely amazing how little we store locally and how much we stream.
12:14pm 20/02/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4370 posts
streaming is still pretty s*** compared to rendering the video locally though

pausing, skiping back 3 minutes, scrubbing until you get to a certain spot you want to pickup from.

also the 4k UHD only plays in Windows Edge or the Win10 App, and on specific models of TV. if you use the Chromecast it has to be the UHD version or no 4k either.

04:21pm 20/02/18 Permalink
funky
Canada
1924 posts
I thought the latest chromecast does 4k?
12:45pm 23/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11767 posts
To be frank, I am actually happy to have fibre to my house, but not because i don't think copper is capable if sufficiently top-hatted, but because the current corporate culture of telstra is to let it rot and only maintain it if absolutely necessary, instead of maintaining some decent standard as a default.
02:20pm 23/02/18 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21496 posts
telstra is to let it rot and only maintain it if absolutely necessary, instead of maintaining some decent standard as a default.


pretty sure this has been one of the arguments goign around for AGES since the coalition decided to switch to their more expensive cheaper FTTN version
02:36pm 23/02/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11768 posts
yes; in theory not having to touch the wiring of each premises but just bring fast interbutts very close is actually a smrt idea

but in practice, the 'last mile' has historically been the worst, and most s***** part of the telstra network, and as a result, with FTTN they'd be chucking away the good stuff and keeping everything that's wrong with telstra, apart from upper management.
03:00pm 23/02/18 Permalink
dranged
Sydney, New South Wales
2118 posts
^^ probably a good chunk of middle management, too
04:58pm 04/03/18 Permalink
Zenmaster
Queensland
44 posts
I disagree with my peers here on this subject.


Bring back your head.


Correct me if I'm wrong - this is why QGL existed when it mattered?


Now here we are... again as we were at the start?


Do we have to do this again?





Everything is good for you - Crowded House.


https://youtu.be/SzTc1PLw1i4
08:36pm 04/03/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39540 posts
in total unrelated news, it takes 2 weeks to get ADSL installed in a flat that already had DSL in it before - wtf? is this for real?
02:57pm 04/04/18 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
2854 posts
I saw some dudes digging up the street nearby. One of the signs they had said NBN or something and now there is a small green box thing. So it looks like I'll be getting NBN in a few months.

I did some looking at plans but there does not seem to be any super awesome plans. One from Extel seems alright though.
03:29pm 04/04/18 Permalink
funky
Canada
1928 posts
that was my experience in February pretty much too trog!
05:43pm 04/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39541 posts
lame. can't they just flick a magic switch somewhere?

also: pretty big NBN news today with Bill Morrow stepping down
07:07pm 04/04/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
916 posts
Last October, he told Four Corners the fast pace of the rollout was leading to compromises and it "turned his stomach" that customers were getting left behind.
:(
10:52am 06/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39546 posts
I randomly decided to plug in my old modem and put in my new user/pass and presto - I have Internet. WEIRD. It's pretty slow - 6mbps :( - but I'm on a stability profile so I've changed to a speed one which hopefully will help.
01:37pm 06/04/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12336 posts
lame. can't they just flick a magic switch somewhere?
Someone needs to jumper the connections physically, so you are basically waiting for a technician to come along and do that. Its super awesome when you had naked DSL and a tech would test the line for a tone, get none, disconnect your line and give it to someone else. Then you're farked waiting for a technician again to unf*** something you never asked to get f***ed in the first place.
06:42pm 06/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39547 posts
Someone needs to jumper the connections physically, so you are basically waiting for a technician to come along and do that. Its super awesome when you had naked DSL and a tech would test the line for a tone, get none, disconnect your line and give it to someone else. Then you're farked waiting for a technician again to unf*** something you never asked to get f***ed in the first place.
that would make sense BUT it's working now before they've told me it's been fully provisioned. Though it's slow as f*** (6Mbps). I've asked them what is happening but it seems weird that it would work at all if it required physical work, and it seems weird that it would be slower than it could be
10:20am 07/04/18 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11776 posts
Haha twisted that's what happened to me when I first got NDSL in 2007. First Naked subscriber on the Kallangur Exchange, the bloke told me. He had no idea, poor fella. Spent the last 20 years ensuring there was dialtone, and now he has to ensure there's no dialtone?
02:06pm 07/04/18 Permalink
funky
Canada
1929 posts
hmmm, i just checked the NBN rollout for my place in toowong and now it says I am due for a HFC roll out between July-Dec 2019. excellent
04:03pm 19/04/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
24035 posts
Yeah, I was originaly meant to get it in November last year, now due March 2019 :(
01:43pm 20/04/18 Permalink
funky
Canada
1930 posts
well mine was delayed and also now is a different technology? i am certain that it was FTTN and Jan-June 2019 and now it is HFC and July-Dec 2019. sigh
04:36pm 20/04/18 Permalink
CallMeCrazyButCallMeMaybe1
Victoria
1 posts
In my area - I've got 100mbit Bigpond cable. Lots of people nearby switched to NBN many months ago and complained of speed reduction over bigpond cable.

THEN we all received letters many months ago saying 'NBN will be available in your areas soon' (when people already have it?)... and I think this letter was referencing use of HFC?

Have not heard anything since.
12:06am 21/04/18 Permalink
BladeRunner
Queensland
2857 posts
The NBN will be switched on where I am on the 9th of July. Wish it was sooner but I guess there is no real rush. Anyone got any ISP recommendations?
02:10am 22/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39570 posts
In my area - I've got 100mbit Bigpond cable. Lots of people nearby switched to NBN many months ago and complained of speed reduction over bigpond cable.

THEN we all received letters many months ago saying 'NBN will be available in your areas soon' (when people already have it?)... and I think this letter was referencing use of HFC?

Have not heard anything since.
weird. my parents are on Bigpond Cable and it has been more or less totally flawless since they had it installed when it first arrived in BNE. One of my mates lives around the corner from them and he's on NBN on the HFC network and for some reason it seems to totally suck - he's on the slow speed but he's getting disconnections and packetloss (he drops regularly in games when we're playing).

I don't know if it's a new HFC deployment or what but I thought the whole suburb had had BP cable available for years.

In other news, my Internet was "provisioned" the other day when the cable guy came out to connect my building (note: I was already connected and online before he came out). He left and I got a text message saying that he'd finished his work and I now needed to pay someone to come and connect my actual unit to the distribution board thingy. I never lost connection at any point during this process.

The support people have no idea what is going on. I am totally confused but my Internet works although it's a bit slower than I'd like - 11-12Mbit.
09:58am 22/04/18 Permalink
Ickus
Perth, Western Australia
634 posts
One of my mates lives around the corner from them and he's on NBN on the HFC network and for some reason it seems to totally suck - he's on the slow speed but he's getting disconnections and packetloss (he drops regularly in games when we're playing).

I don't know if it's a new HFC deployment or what but I thought the whole suburb had had BP cable available for years..


NBN have had serious issues on their HFC (which is why they temporarily stopped provisioning new services). Rumour has it was something to do with how bigbond/foxtel are using the upper Hz and HFC were using the lower ones. I believe its supposed to be all fixed now and they are accepting new orders again.

My friend in Craigie(WA) had HFC NBN and it was appauling, packetloss and low speed all the time. He was getting better performance from his old ADSL connection than HFC.
02:30pm 22/04/18 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12338 posts
Anyone got any ISP recommendations?
Aussie Broadband had been rock solid. They're very active on the Whirlpool forums, and they publish all their data traffic quite transparently which I think is pretty cool. For example CVC capacity chats here.
07:37pm 22/04/18 Permalink
Python
Sydney, New South Wales
2591 posts
Side note, if you have Telstra you can reboot your modem to get 5 Mbps upload.
11:30pm 22/04/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
920 posts
Aussie Broadband had been rock solid. They're very active on the Whirlpool forums, and they publish all their data traffic quite transparently which I think is pretty cool. For example CVC capacity chats here.

Seconding. I especially love their "addons", if your running low on data you can top up it up, you can increase uploads. They also have good tiers.
10:01am 24/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39572 posts
I think I'm gonna ragequit my current ISP after a month and go to AussieBB. I looked at them first but they were quite a bit more expensive, but they uniformly get positive reviews from people I know so I wish I'd gone with themfrom the start.
10:04am 24/04/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
922 posts
I think I'm gonna ragequit my current ISP after a month and go to AussieBB. I looked at them first but they were quite a bit more expensive, but they uniformly get positive reviews from people I know so I wish I'd gone with themfrom the start.

well worth the extra ~15-20 bucks. I have never done "wtf is going on" and spent 1 hour troubleshooting the issue, googling, whirlpool, speedtest etc etc in the 5 months I've been with them. I'm getting email weeks in advance about planned maintenance and issues.

The extra $250/year for good stable internet is well worth it. I don't know about the rest of you folks but s***** internet drives me crazy and I spend so much energy troubleshooting the issues. Skype calls to family overseas, streaming, downloading, OS updates, work uploads/downloads. So much of my s***** life depends on the internet.

P.S f*** tpg and all of its subsidiaries.
01:19pm 24/04/18 Permalink
dranged
Sydney, New South Wales
2120 posts
AussieBB++;

It's just, shamefully breathtaking to get the speeds you're provisioned for in the busy hours.

Shut up and take my money!
05:49pm 25/04/18 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
2222 posts
I don't think they are taking any new HFC, but has anyone quit optus cable and had a positive story of switching recently?
07:30pm 25/04/18 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Other International
39580 posts
so I ended up having to get a cabler to come out and "jumper the MDF" in my apartment building.

Turns out I was still connected via the previous tenants connection somehow through their ISP (iiNet) - so even though my Internet (through Internode) was working perfectly with my Internode login details, it was never registered as fully provisioned on the Internode side because they couldn't detect any activity. So basically it seems like I was getting free Internet somehow, at the risk of it getting disconnected when iiNet finally sent someone out to un-jumper the connection on the MDF.

all super confusing and it took several calls for them to figure out what the hell was going on. It seems like Internode level 1 tech support now goes through (I guess) the Phillippines with predictable results but it's easy to get escalated to Adelaide call centre.
10:37am 26/04/18 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
24036 posts
I pre-ordered through Aussie BB last year, when I thought I was getting NBN in november, now they keep sending me emails letting me know my order still stands and apologising for all the s***** NBN delays. I feel like replying and saying "Its cool man! Not your fault!"
10:53am 26/04/18 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
923 posts
so I ended up having to get a cabler to come out and "jumper the MDF" in my apartment building.

Turns out I was still connected via the previous tenants connection somehow through their ISP (iiNet) - so even though my Internet (through Internode) was working perfectly with my Internode login details, it was never registered as fully provisioned on the Internode side because they couldn't detect any activity. So basically it seems like I was getting free Internet somehow, at the risk of it getting disconnected when iiNet finally sent someone out to un-jumper the connection on the MDF.

all super confusing and it took several calls for them to figure out what the hell was going on. It seems like Internode level 1 tech support now goes through (I guess) the Phillippines with predictable results but it's easy to get escalated to Adelaide call centre.

FYI

Internode == iiNet == TPG

TPG, imo, is terrible terrible service provider. you probably already know this, but I just wanted to reiterate how hate for TPG.

F*** TPG.
09:57am 30/04/18 Permalink
system
Internet
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09:57am 30/04/18 Permalink
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