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Accountability of ones actions on the internet.
Gibster
201 posts
Hi,
There are lots of scumbags around that act like scumbags, only because they get away with it, or the penalties are laughable. I see this every day, not just on the internet, I see it in everyday life in the street, doing groceries, going out, everywhere. The recent incident with the animator that worked on the latest Halo game has me thinking.
How do you think we could make people accountable for their actions over the internet, without severely invading everyone's privacy? If that's even possible?
05:37pm 20/03/17 Permalink
system
Internet
--
05:37pm 20/03/17 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
11631 posts
Being rude or mean isn't a crime.
You can always just turn off the computer and go outside if your feelings are getting hurt.
05:57pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Gibster
202 posts
I was expecting a few replies like that...
these kids that act like scum in their youth, are going to grow into what kind of adults?
What if its more than that though? being scammed/robbed, rapists luring people, ect.
06:07pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16676 posts
We have a criminal code to deal with robbery and rape.
06:21pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6593 posts
Being rude or mean isn't a crime.
You can always just turn off the computer and go outside if your feelings are getting hurt.


Well, if it's constant it can be. Cyberbullying is something you can be charged with.
06:34pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40491 posts
tell me of the halo animator incident? i dint see anything about it on my facey
06:55pm 20/03/17 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
19070 posts
tell me of the halo animator incident? i dint see anything about it on my facey


it was mass effect not halo. some d*******s started abusing a woman on twitter because she mentioned that she did animation work on mass effect.
07:09pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
5215 posts
I thougnt one of the people that worked on mass effect was a huge racist posting s*** all over twitter.
08:20pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Tanaka Khan
Brisbane, Queensland
5728 posts
i dint see anything about it on my facey


Too much spam about S&BJ Day?
08:57pm 20/03/17 Permalink
notgreazy
Other International
650 posts
I don't know, I view the internet as a different setting than Real Life™

Lots of people will disagree and I can understand why. The internet and life have co-mingled to the point of inseparability but for me they will always be separate.

I prefer the chaotic nature of the internet. I laugh a little bit every time I see a codger talking about these damn kids and trying to bring accountability.
09:26pm 20/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38811 posts
well there is some accountability FBI Arrests Alleged Attacker Who Tweeted Seizure-Inducing Strobe at a Writer

hard to make people accountable for hurting someone's feelings though
09:34pm 20/03/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23686 posts
Jerks being jerks is part of the internet, but there's still a line. When it's just banter that's fair enough, but when it becomes death threats and stalking and harassment on a personal level, that's over the line. But then that stuff already is genuinely illegal anyway, so I guess the system is working?
01:08am 21/03/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23668 posts
you reap the seeds you sew.
11:37am 21/03/17 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
25769 posts
Sow.
11:39am 21/03/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23669 posts
So.
11:44am 21/03/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23688 posts
Tso
12:42pm 21/03/17 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9395 posts
So let's say I call Trog a girl. Predictably, he reacts by thinking "grow up", and moves on with his day.
But then I call FaceMan a girl, and he gets all offended, and his feelings are not just hurt but bruised.

Do I get jail?
02:38pm 21/03/17 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
25770 posts
You're already in jail.
03:34pm 21/03/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12661 posts
Raven, Im not afraid of Words.

Liberalism likes to get hysterical at things that shock them like when we point out that Boys cant ever become Girls.

Rather than accepting the Truth they get Hysterical and invent hurt feelings to garner attention(Liberalism thrives on attention) and when they get enough attention they try to convert it into Power. They demand the person that told them the Truth be made silent.

A fine example of this was the recent Coopers Brewery-Gay Marriage chat.
The looks on the faces of those Coopers execs as they read out their grovelling apology reminded me of hostages facing execution.

Those calling for others to be silent are the most dangerous people of all.


04:24pm 21/03/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40493 posts
what about me? i am very upset that you called trog a girl :(
07:33pm 21/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
8728 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
07:58pm 21/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38815 posts
Those calling for others to be silent are the most dangerous people of all.
Just to be clear, you want those that are calling for others to be silent, to be silent?
08:08pm 21/03/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12662 posts
aww i had a response to that :(

You have asked that once before.

Free Speech is exactly that Speech, words, the exchange of Ideas.
If you have a discussion and one side is made silent
who appears to have the stronger case ?

Thats how Religion has worked for thousands of years.
Not a Liberal Democracy.






last edited by FaceMan at 21:00:49 21/Mar/17

last edited by FaceMan at 21:04:00 21/Mar/17
08:56pm 21/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38816 posts
If you have a discussion and one side is made silent
who appears to have the stronger case ?
yeh but abusing people on the Internet isn't really the free exchange of ideas. that's what we're talking about (& why I deleted my off topic post). The question is when does calling people names cross the line into abuse that should be held accountable. We have defamation and bullying laws that deal with some of it but it's clear that anonymous harassment is somewhat immune to it.

It is tough to draw a line. I don't have an answer, but I think calling people 'snowflakes' when they cop reams of abuse from random f***wits on the Internet is not helpful.
10:29pm 21/03/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12211 posts

A fine example of this was the recent Coopers Brewery-Gay Marriage chat.
The looks on the faces of those Coopers execs as they read out their grovelling apology reminded me of hostages facing execution.
That's just the look of someone who is not used to reading from a prompt. Nothing more and nothing less. They are not professional presenters.
Free Speech is exactly that Speech, words, the exchange of Ideas.
In the case of the Coopers video, I would argue that companies are not people and therefore no ones freedom of speech was hindered at all. Coopers chose to sponsor a video and use that sponsorship to try sell more beer. Their customers did not like it and voted with their wallet by boycotting the brand. This is nothing to do with democracy, it is consumers flexing their muscle. Companies need us to survive, we don't need them. If they hadn't tried to peddle their beer in the video, it would have just been another video.

As for one side being made silent? Doesn't really happen unless you live in a police state. It just depends on how the media reports it all. For the most part both sides of any debate are all running around trying to grab the spotlight. The fact that 1 side got the spotlight, doesn't mean the other side was silenced, they just didn't get a soap box to stand on and shout louder from. At the end of the day it will again come down to a company decision, and in the case of a media company that is a publicly listed company or a company beholden to their advertisers, their opinions need to be considered too. If they report it in such a way that their advertisers or share holders are unhappy it will cost them. So...is the companies freedom of speech being impacted by shareholders/advertisers? Maybe they shouldn't be following that business model then.

last edited by Twisted at 03:43:37 22/Mar/17
03:42am 22/03/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16677 posts
I think calling people 'snowflakes' when they cop reams of abuse from random f***wits on the Internet is not helpful

Yeh ain't that the truth.

Given the long history and vast improvements to NLP hopefully systems will be able to recognise this sort of thing.

We've come a long way with spam detection, after all.
12:00pm 22/03/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12663 posts
I didnt really see how Coopers were denigrating Gay Marriage
It was a discussion. Im quite sure Tim Wilson wouldnt have done it if it was.
Did you stop watching The ABC when Bernadi criticized Gay Marriage on Q&A ?

Does it offend you when Companies promote Ideas you agree with ?

It kind of worries me that Freedom of Speech is being redesigned as Righteousness.


01:06pm 22/03/17 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
21203 posts
who holds facey accountable when he makes dumb predictions on the internet about sport?

WE DO

WE DO
01:45pm 22/03/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16678 posts
I didnt really see how Coopers were denigrating Gay Marriage
It was a discussion. Im quite sure Tim Wilson wouldnt have done it if it was.
Did you stop watching The ABC when Bernadi criticized Gay Marriage on Q&A ?

Does it offend you when Companies promote Ideas you agree with ?

It kind of worries me that Freedom of Speech is being redesigned as Righteousness.

First of all, companies should be wary of entering the public arena on divisive issues. It was a very stupid idea to begin with, but its pretty clear that a bunch of middle aged dudes sitting down with some Bibles have an opinion on the issue.

Freedom of speech and opinion doesn't mean that anyone else is required to respect that speech. It goes both ways.

Worse, the 'conversation' itself is basically vile. Anyone opposing marriage equality has no defendable position. At the risk of derailing the thread (which is a bit meh to begin with) I'd love to hear a practical and reasonable reason why Bob and Billy shouldn't be allowed to marry, and why Howard's revision of The Marriage Act, in excluding same sex unions, is not inherently discriminatory.
05:04pm 22/03/17 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12212 posts

I didnt really see how Coopers were denigrating Gay Marriage
Like any marginalised minority though, I think a lot of people who are supporters of the LGBT community took exception to the approach of the video and felt the title and content made light of the situation.

If my company Aardvark Dildo's came out and sponsored a light hearted chat between a 2 guys (1 pro aborigine and 1 anti aborigine) debating whether Aborigines need to get over their life situation or not while brandishing my dildos in a terrible marketing ploy...I would expect a backlash.
First of all, companies should be wary of entering the public arena on divisive issues.
I agree, and I think they should be especially wary of anything online that doesn't go through the same levels of scrutiny as TV/Radio/Print before going live. They're all too busy trying to piggy back on to the next social media craze though. And again, I don't see how a company can have free speech, its a company...no one has tried to stop the video being played, they've just stopped supporting the sponsor of the video. Did it really need sponsorship? No, but they were under the mistaken belief it would help them sell more beer.

last edited by Twisted at 18:35:12 22/Mar/17
06:28pm 22/03/17 Permalink
nings
Gold Coast, Queensland
437 posts
Well as long as Bob the anti aborigine and Billy the pro aborigine are in love it's ok for them to drink dildoes, but only if they're married.
I don't want to lose the right to use the word "poof" but I can respect others wishes; ie; " I wish that poof Virat Kohli's face was blurred out on television"
08:18pm 22/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38818 posts
Did you stop watching The ABC when Bernadi criticized Gay Marriage on Q&A ?
One of these things is not like the other
Does it offend you when Companies promote Ideas you agree with ?
what
It kind of worries me that Freedom of Speech is being redesigned as Righteousness.
hahah yeh sure it does
08:49pm 22/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38819 posts
Faceman, so are you basically saying that you think there should be no accountability for anyone's words whatsoever?

You think that if some random company comes out in massive support of something you have an objection to (I can't think of anything you don't like at the moment because you seem to be the last bastion of tolerance for everything, but let's pick Nazis because they're always fun), and they use their money to push that agenda, people should do ... what? Post words on the Internet objecting to it? You think people should not use their other freedoms, like the freedom to spend their own money on whatever they want, to apply market pressure to these companies?

Because I'm confused as f***.
08:59pm 22/03/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12664 posts
You seem concerned with punishing people for views that arent acceptable.
It seems to drive you nuts that I dont want to silence people.

Its just Words.

You dont prevent Bullying by limiting Free Speech that just creates new kinds of Bullies like whats been going on at The Human Rights Commission.




10:12pm 22/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38820 posts
You seem concerned with punishing people for views that arent acceptable.
You seem to be assuming that the only freedom people have is to use their words, completely neglecting any other agency that a human being may have.

I know it's trendy amongst conservatives to cry about being "silenced" by those evil liberal leftists but it's starting to get a little ridiculous to pretend that people reacting to words is somehow an attempt to silence them.

I repeat my question in different words: do you not think it is OK for human beings to use their other freedoms (e.g., economic freedom to decide which products to buy) as a response to speech?

To me this is a no-brainer question; if a company is using its dollars to spread a message I disagree with, I should be totally free to not buy those products, right? Are you saying you would continue to financially support a company independently of their speech? Because their speech is "just words"? Do you continue to vote for politicians because the things that they say are "just words"?

(tldr: words and actions are sometimes, but not always, linked)
10:39pm 22/03/17 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3226 posts
The tinternets used to be a different or fake reality, but that's changing, and imo it'll only change further until its so closely integrated with real life that it's more of an augmented version of real life.

That means the whole notion of people being able to do bad or illegal things just because it's a fake reality, or due to the anonymity you get from that, will slowly go away as well. Or at the least they'll suffer the same repercussions as those actions do now in real life. The law is still catching up with the internet, but it will do I reckon.

I kind of get the point of being responsible for your own feelings and not taking random s*** from people online too seriously, however on the flip side of that there's adults, and children, being seriously and consistently abused online, leading to all sorts of issues, including suicide. That's not cricket mate, and it can't just be shrugged off. What if it was your kid getting cyber bullied into suicide? It's happened.

Sending someone who suffers from epilepsy an epilepsy inducing gif is a pretty d*** move, imo, and I'm glad that dude is now getting charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

US grand jury decides that a GIF counts as a deadly weapon in Twitter seizure case

That deadly gif reminded me of the visually induced brain virus thing from Snowcrash.
12:16am 23/03/17 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
23691 posts
Nobody is silencing anybody, Cooper's or whoever else are free to make whatever stupid videos they want, just like we're free to call them out on their bulls*** and take our money elsewhere. They don't get some automatic right to have what they say considered seriously; if they can't handle criticism and people not agreeing with them then don't put it out there in the first place. That whole free speech defense that Faceman likes falling back on, it cuts both ways you know.

I see so many people these days operating under the fallacy that all opinions or points of view hold equal merit and should be treated as such. That's just blatantly not true, like sticking a pro marriage equality and an anti marriage equality person opposite each other is right from the start saying "both sides of this argument have equal merit", it's bulls*** from before the moment they open their mouths to sip their cool refreshing Cooper's.
12:40am 23/03/17 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
12665 posts
do you not think it is OK for human beings to use their other freedoms (e.g., economic freedom to decide which products to buy) as a response to speech?


Absolutely.
"I dont agree with your Gay Marriage Ad so Im not buying your product."
Thats fine

It becomes something different when Social Media swarms start making demands on the Company or they will target customers of that Company. Its not a boycott now, its ... Bullying isnt it ?

I see so many people these days operating under the fallacy that all opinions or points of view hold equal merit and should be treated as such.


If you arent allowed to hear them, to challenge them, how do you know if its a Bad Idea or a Good Idea ?
somebody else has already decided that for you ?

Suppose someone stands in the Town Square as says Adults should be able to marry kids.

Is all of Society going to start doing that ?
Change in our Liberal Democracies has come about from our Reasoning Minds, embracing Good Ideas over Bad Ideas, Words dont make people do things unless they are Children.

You dont cure Racism, Bigotry, which is Bullying, by preventing it being discussed.
You challenge it whenever you see it.


02:11am 23/03/17 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
USA
38821 posts
It becomes something different when Social Media swarms start making demands on the Company or they will target customers of that Company. Its not a boycott now, its ... Bullying isnt it ?
did that happen? I didn't see that. I just saw a bunch of people saying "haha as if I'm gonna buy Coopers any more if they're going to do this dumb s***"

"target" is word with a lot of room for interpretation. What do you mean?

(fwiw I found Coopers' response fairly compelling and I don't think it has swayed me too strongly one way or the other to buy or not buy their beer. I quite like Coopers.)
03:21am 23/03/17 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
40495 posts
Its just Words.

words are wind.
06:46am 23/03/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23670 posts
or they will target customers of that Company


that's a secondary boycott and it's illegal in Australia.
10:31am 23/03/17 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
16679 posts
Is it illegal generally or just for trade unions?
10:51am 23/03/17 Permalink
nings
Gold Coast, Queensland
438 posts

words are wind.

so are farts, is that what u mean?


mmmm coopers, I don't think coopers being pro gay or anti gay would be enough to stop me drinking a few paleys of an afternoon.
06:11pm 23/03/17 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23671 posts
Is it illegal generally or just for trade unions?


it is not limited to trade unions.
06:42pm 23/03/17 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
2393 posts
like the freedom to spend their own money on whatever they want


I don't think you believe that.

for example should an employer be able to pay less if you don't have the right political opinion. They are just buying labour after all. They should be able use their freedom however they want.
05:56pm 24/03/17 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
25776 posts
He said whatever, not however. If he did say however you could have owned him in other hilarious ways. For example, "I don't think you believe that, do you think an employer should be able to buy canisters of VX nerve gas" and other such zingers.
09:00am 25/03/17 Permalink
Viper119
Other International
3232 posts
More of this to come no doubt.

The Scrapping Of Internet Privacy: Something We Can All Hate Together

08:44am 31/03/17 Permalink
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Internet
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08:44am 31/03/17 Permalink
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