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Political Thread 2.5 (Because we really haven't made any progre...
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
2955 posts

In Venezuela, most businesses are privately owned and for profit, the wage-labor relationship is still in place, and capital accumulation still drives economic activity.


There isn't a single factually correct thing about that sentence. Venezuela is a completely centralised economy. And it's people are starving to death, because someone yet again failed to get socialism right.

Turkey is an example of a theocrat imposing a corrupt theocracy. Not an economic failure.
08:36pm 14/01/18 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7796 posts
"Real racism is quiet, it's subtle"

10:51pm 14/01/18 Permalink
Vash
5676 posts
Venezuela is a completely centralised economy.


Factually incorrect. A major part of its economy is privatized, and therefor, decentralised. Chavez seized various commodity based businesses but not the entire means of production. Tell me how private entities exist in a centralised, Socialist economy?

Any Government that decides to put all its eggs in one basket, that is, public investment mostly on oil, and that price crashes, deserves to be kicked out. It's no hit on Socialism.

By the way, people are starving in Capitalist economies too. In the Philippines, one in three children are malnourished.
02:04pm 15/01/18 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
23931 posts
Just watching Vice last week on Venezuela. Their Oil company produces one third the oil it did before socialism, and has 3 times the employees.
02:38pm 15/01/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
2956 posts

Factually incorrect.


Well it isn't.

Chavez seized various commodity based businesses but not the entire means of production.


Yeah by various commodity based businesses you mean all oil and farms. So all he did was centralise energy and food. A tiny insignificant part of any economy I'm sure we can all agree.

It's no hit on Socialism.


Yeah it is Vash. Centralising production is the goal of socialism. You've been confused about this for a long time now. The bits he centralised are now failing catestrophically which also manages to account for the key elements needed to sustain a society (or energy and food).

You're just saying wasn't really socialism again. Micheal Moore, Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky all disagree with you sunshine.

As for the Philippines, we've been down this road. The Philippines perform better on any development metric than Venezuela. Because there is some poverty in the Philippines does not make it a valid comparison to a country are literally roaming the hills looking for animals to kill to ward off mass starvation and therefore place capitalism on a similar footing as socialism.
05:06pm 15/01/18 Permalink
Vash
5678 posts
Spin it how you want PP. It's no surprise you're a fan of Trump. Facts aren't your strong suit.
Fact: Venezuela has a major private industry, and always has. Hence, Not Socialism.

'some' poverty in the Philippines is a massive understatement. Visited recently?
05:29pm 15/01/18 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
2957 posts
Fact: Venezuela has a major private industry, and always has. Hence, Not Socialism


It really is very funny you accuse people of not being good with facts. You start producing some data Vash. There is no serious question as to whether Venezuela is a socialist country. They straightforwardly implemented totally orthodox Marxist ideas. The vast majority of their GDP is generated through state owned and run enterprise.

I didn't understate poverty in the Philippines vash I said it is more developed and provides for more of its citizens than Venezuela. Again this is uncontroversial.

Quick bring up trump. You can call me alt-right as well. Doesn't mean Venezuela isn't a socialist country whose means of production were centralised and now nobody has enough to eat, like every other time it was tried.
05:41pm 15/01/18 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
9554 posts
11:09am 16/01/18 Permalink
Nmag
Sydney, New South Wales
889 posts
I know you are asking this rhetorically to make whatever completely bizarre talking head point that is coming down the wire from the Rodina, but the USA is a 1st world s***hole



Parts of Lithgow are s***holes.

Parts of Sydney are s***holes

Parts of Chicago are s***holes. Check out this graphic for Chicago.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http://armored-column.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Screenshot-2017-02-05-22.04.22.png&sp=b3a154552dd875e0e174dbd79012d6b9.

Parts of many places are s***holes.

Most of some places are s***holes.
10:37am 17/01/18 Permalink
Vash
5680 posts
Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe." “Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.” He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.” “They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said. “So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.
12:49am 21/01/18 Permalink
trillion
Ballarat, Victoria
4356 posts
if you need a break from reading along on this thread, there’s an enjoyable interview on Netflix

It’s A Whole New Ball Game Now
02:35am 21/01/18 Permalink
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