We take the latest South Park joint for a jaunt on the toilet... will it flush?
South Park: The Fractured But Whole Review!
We chat with the game director and creative head of Machine Games about the upcoming title where killing Nazis is all the rage.
A Happy Ending Filled with Nazis – Wolfenstein II Interview!
From the creators of Payday comes a new action title where you get to steal back treasure from Nazis.
Win a Copy of RAID World War II on PS4
Political Thread 2.5 (Because we really haven't made any progre...
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1660 posts
I got sick of the over 100 pages URL bug, so figured I'd just remake the thread.

A link to the last page of the thread is here:http://http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/thread.php/3444246?p=0112


So, those politicians, eh?

Pretty dumb and stuff, right?

(You may continue the discussion now :P )
06:36pm 11/12/14 Permalink
system
Internet
--
06:36pm 11/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38676 posts
what bug?

it works fine.
06:49pm 11/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1661 posts
what bug?

it works fine.



On the other thread, there's an issue (with only some of us, it would seem) that the URL is incorrect when you click on a new page (it 404's).

Basically, instead of the number in the URL being (for example) "3488653", the URL will instead change to something like "34886531".

BB based forums used to have a similar issue IIRC after 100 pages, same as in Whirlpool (they remake after 100 pages)
07:19pm 11/12/14 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
6397 posts
yeah you only have that problem if you dont show 100 pages per post
08:41pm 11/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1662 posts
yeah you only have that problem if you dont show 100 pages per post


*shrug* I just have always had it on default.

::EDIT:: Actually, I just changed it to 100 per page and was still getting that issue *shrug* Maybe it's a chrome thing?
10:01pm 11/12/14 Permalink
Enska
Sydney, New South Wales
2410 posts
nope, unfortunately chrome has no problem deciphering all that bulls*** and displaying it just fine.
10:15pm 11/12/14 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
361 posts
Iff you live at Chittaway Bay,you would be happy all day ,although i can't see how a URL bug has anything to do with politics unless you're insinuating that the Federal Government is censoring page limits.


02:06am 12/12/14 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
22276 posts
I think Abbot will lose the next election, just because "one term tone" is too catchy to not work. Its like the only reason kevin rudd won was his "Kevin 07" catchphrase, and Obama got in on the back of his "Yes we can" catchphrase. People don't vote for the best politician or the best party, they vote for the best sound byte.
10:33am 12/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2028 posts
I think Abbot will lose the next election, just because "one term tone" is too catchy to not work. Its like the only reason kevin rudd won was his "Kevin 07" catchphrase, and Obama got in on the back of his "Yes we can" catchphrase. People don't vote for the best politician or the best party, they vote for the best sound byte.


Well you should remove "I think" from what you wrote because you're stating that people don't think.

What you will find is that the majority of voters are immensely greedy.
12:28pm 12/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1663 posts


Well you should remove "I think" from what you wrote because you're stating that people don't think.

What you will find is that the majority of voters are immensely greedy.



They may think, but they don't use it for anything like, I don't know, researching the party they're voting for?

I'm sad to say that my extended family all seem to be liberal voters. The only thing they've said on it so far is "It's ok tony, you're doing a great job and we're all behind you! The age of entitlement is over!"

The sad part is that pretty much the ONLY things they hear about comes from the news or because they read the papers. They honestly believe that he is doing good because the murdoch press TELL them that he's doing good. They've not done a single shred of research, they just blindly follow because "kids these days have it too easy...", while ignoring the fact that their first home cost them something retarded like $20,000 (Government housing) and they just sold it for $600,000... Yep, they had it soooo hard *eyeroll*

When I've tried showing them exactly how f***ed up the current leadership is, they just dismiss it and say "Nah, the adults are in charge. They'll fix the economy! It's all just labour, bashing them" or "It's labours fault they're in this mess"

At that point, I lost all respect for them. I won't be visiting them for christmas. They're not greedy, just wilfully ignorant and used to following irrational dogma (being devout creationists...)

Oh, they're also pretty bigoted as well (My brother recently came out as transgender (Female) and they've stopped talking to him and told him 'just pray it away', they also barely ever talk to my Uncle Craig because he's gay and just got married), so the stop the boats crap obviously rang well with them as well.

Welcome to a large portion of this bigoted nation. One only has to walk through the local shopping centre with my new sis to see that. People who would otherwise say "I'm fine with that" will often turn the other cheek or freak out when presented with reality.
01:40pm 12/12/14 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
5368 posts
I think the last thread sucked, this thread will suck, and I also have no problem with the other thread using Chrome.

Carry on the eternal bickering about how shot our 2 party system is
09:52pm 12/12/14 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
201 posts
It's time to transcend that 2 party system with a party advocating pure democracy - or direct input from the public on all governmental matters. It should be happening already.

That would certainly trump the Smokers Rights Party for my senate vote.

In fact I'm going to found it myself... just imagine a cushy job in the senate plus not having to do any thinking because the party member decide everything. And air con! So luxurious!.. But then I'd probably have to shower more than twice a week and wear some roll-on...

At least 4 toxic smells coming off me that are days old... I don't even know what the 4th one is or what's causing it. It's like I'm decomposing or something...
01:20am 13/12/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
745 posts
I'd vote for the Roonee party.
Common sense and larfing should underpin the country, why not.
01:58am 13/12/14 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
363 posts
Hahaha Roonee "a cushy job in the senate" i would join yer party but i wouldn't settle for anything less than supreme ruler and overlord of the entire parliament i would dress in a uniform with a 100 medals and a gold braided hat and all the chairs in parliament would electrified so if you got to comfortable you would get a short sharp shock just to remind you who is boss.
03:58am 13/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
321 posts

They may think, but they don't use it for anything like, I don't know, researching the party they're voting for?

I'm sad to say that my extended family all seem to be liberal voters. The only thing they've said on it so far is "It's ok tony, you're doing a great job and we're all behind you! The age of entitlement is over!"

The sad part is that pretty much the ONLY things they hear about comes from the news or because they read the papers. They honestly believe that he is doing good because the murdoch press TELL them that he's doing good. They've not done a single shred of research, they just blindly follow because "kids these days have it too easy...", while ignoring the fact that their first home cost them something retarded like $20,000 (Government housing) and they just sold it for $600,000... Yep, they had it soooo hard *eyeroll*

When I've tried showing them exactly how f***ed up the current leadership is, they just dismiss it and say "Nah, the adults are in charge. They'll fix the economy! It's all just labour, bashing them" or "It's labours fault they're in this mess"

At that point, I lost all respect for them. I won't be visiting them for christmas. They're not greedy, just wilfully ignorant and used to following irrational dogma (being devout creationists...)

Oh, they're also pretty bigoted as well (My brother recently came out as transgender (Female) and they've stopped talking to him and told him 'just pray it away', they also barely ever talk to my Uncle Craig because he's gay and just got married), so the stop the boats crap obviously rang well with them as well.

Welcome to a large portion of this bigoted nation. One only has to walk through the local shopping centre with my new sis to see that. People who would otherwise say "I'm fine with that" will often turn the other cheek or freak out when presented with reality.


Mate, you're going a bit too far. Look around you.. is anything different since Labour was in power? Did you really notice anything change? Disowning family members because they vote Liberal? Seriously.. there are more important things in life than politics. At the end of the day, you hope that your government implements some decent social policy that might benefit your children someday. I think generally, all governments, labour or liberal, will implement some decent policies where the main aim is to benefit people. Cutting back welfare? Might seem bad but in the long run it will make people more dependant. It will stimulate the economy as people will be looking for more jobs, creating more work and being more entrepreneurial. HECS - free education at a massive cost to the government. All of these policies are designed to assist. Politics isn't everything. It's really not that much at all.

Moral - Don't be the guy in the family who puts politics higher than personal relationships. Who gives a s*** if they think dole bludgers should go and work? Would they help a dying person on the side of the road? Are they loving, kind people? Probably. And aren't these the qualities you should be looking for in people? Lovingness? That's all that counts. Who cares who they vote for. Get over yourself and go to christmas you loser.
10:49am 13/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2031 posts
Cutting back welfare? Might seem bad but in the long run it will make people more dependant. It will stimulate the economy as people will be looking for more jobs, creating more work and being more entrepreneurial.


lol what? You do realise that minimum wage is $16.87 per hour. Forcing people to work for the dole @ 25 hours per week means effectively they are being paid $10.32 per hour and they still have to look for work. 700,000+ unemployed for 150,000 jobs means someone misses out even if every job is filled. Paying money to the rich/business does not trickle down they invest it making them richer.

Low income earners tend to spend all the money they get, whether it's for bills or food. The more money put into the economy means more production which results in more employment. It's better to put the money where it will do the most benefit, which is not the rich nor business.

HECS - free education at a massive cost to the government. All of these policies are designed to assist. Politics isn't everything. It's really not that much at all.


You're young you'll learn.

Moral - Don't be the guy in the family who puts politics higher than personal relationships. Who gives a s*** if they think dole bludgers should go and work? Would they help a dying person on the side of the road? Are they loving, kind people? Probably. And aren't these the qualities you should be looking for in people? Lovingness? That's all that counts. Who cares who they vote for. Get over yourself and go to christmas you loser.


The right wing is morally bankrupt, they care little for those less well off than they. If you really think that politics doesn't matter they why vote? If you think that politics doesn't matter, why are you spending your time making puerile and sophistic comments. You make judgements with little cause when you should look at yourself, but then again you are wanting.

Christmas? Christmas should happen every day of the year.
01:35pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16581 posts

Cutting back welfare? Might seem bad but in the long run it will make people more dependant. It will stimulate the economy as people will be looking for more jobs, creating more work and being more entrepreneurial.


Looking for MORE jobs implies that MORE jobs will be created simply because people have less money? WTF, please explain how making people have LESS money will lead to MORE jobs.
LESS money to spend means less people BUYING which would in turn mean less people EMPLOYED to sell LESS stuff to POORER people. How does this make MORE jobs?

Please explain how someone who was on welfare, barely getting buy will find the resources to become constructively entrepreneurial with LESS money/resources available to them? I know the easiest way they'll be 'entrepreneurial', stealing s*** out of YOUR home..
02:06pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4125 posts
We need to increase taxation since Howard cut taxes to unsustainable levels when he sold off huge amounts of public assets to get his surplus.
The libs dont have that luxury this time.

And thats exactly what the Carbon & Mining taxes were for, until The mining industry brought Rudd down and they were forced to put in a weak mining tax.
03:41pm 13/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8951 posts
Look around you.. is anything different since Labour was in power? Did you really notice anything change?

Have you been living under a rock or did you entirely miss what the coalition tried to pull which was blocked by Labor/The Greens/Palmer? Everyone under 30 came a vote or two away from having no safety net for 6 months of the year, and only then if they managed to submit something like 20 job applications a week to centrelink for those 6 months, while presumably paying the bills with grass and dirt. Meanwhile Joe had a huge whinge when his free education almost got a $50 fee or something, and yet calls this the entitled generation, when a lower percentage than ever of people are reliant on welfare, targeting the people who have had the least time in their life to prepare for taking care of themselves (why don't they cut the safety net to the baby boomers? They're the ones at the stage of their life with less of an excuse, not that it matters, since the entire job seeker + student + other stuff pension rate payments adds up to something like a percent of the budget, if that, it was purely ideological).
03:44pm 13/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11425 posts
You will never Tax your way to a better Economy.
More Taxes leads to more Unemployment.

Getting rid of the Carbon Tax meant Small Business had some money freed up to invest in more Workers/Jobs.
The Mining Tax was a stupid idea based on Labor/Greens convincing a gullible public that a successful Business should fund the failure of Labor/Greens to create Jobs.

Government blames the Wealthy for poor people and the poor fall for it every time. Its solution is to take more from the Wealthy and waste it just like they wasted the Surplus Howard/Costello left them.

Do you run your family finances like that ?
"Hey Mum and Dad, I wasted my money and seeing as how you have more money than me can you give me more money ? only this time I wont waste it."


04:00pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4126 posts
Except Labor create more jobs than the libs.
Business has always whinged and moaned about more taxes on their businesses, when in fact it increases prosperity. More profit for corporations does not lead to more jobs.
Same as when Unions begun.

http://i.imgur.com/oAx3swD.png
04:09pm 13/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1111 posts
Vash forgets that it IS business who mainly creates employment not the "gubment" except for the public service of course and its still hilarious to see him posting epic brainfarts like "tax creates economic prosperity" Labor did create jobs by splashing cash around, but once the cash runs out, its the success of businesses that drivers further job creation. I also note that in Labor lasts federal budget, a 6% unemployment rate was projected which we currently have.

"tax creates prosperity" is epically dumb. It's the equivalent of Bob earning $100, then the $100 is taken off him and then given back to him and calling it "prosperity creation"

Vash is your classic Greens supporting anti-business anti- job anti-economy voter.
04:39pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1323 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Not Relevant
Send Private Message
04:42pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4127 posts
Actually i look at evidence.
Our economy and employment was strongest under labor. It's only being hit hard now because the libs are hurting confidence hard with all their cuts. Doom and gloom into the minds of the people, they stop spending money. It's not rocket science, but this government can't even grasp simple concepts.
04:43pm 13/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22112 posts
Our economy was so much stronger with all those extra taxes and public service agencies. LUL vash is so entertaining
06:12pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38688 posts
at least the new government is on top of jobs.

oh wait up, no they are completely not on top of employment.
06:13pm 13/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4129 posts
yes surely cutting all those public service jobs will create jobs!&!@
06:17pm 13/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1666 posts
It's time to transcend that 2 party system with a party advocating pure democracy - or direct input from the public on all governmental matters. It should be happening already.

That would certainly trump the Smokers Rights Party for my senate vote.

In fact I'm going to found it myself... just imagine a cushy job in the senate plus not having to do any thinking because the party member decide everything. And air con! So luxurious!.. But then I'd probably have to shower more than twice a week and wear some roll-on...

At least 4 toxic smells coming off me that are days old... I don't even know what the 4th one is or what's causing it. It's like I'm decomposing or something...



Make it the TV Democracy. Have a channel and have them read out each bill...

"To vote YES on Bill #234963, press the Red button now! To vote now, press the Blue button! Or, text Yes / No to 1800-DEMOCRACY! (text's are charged at $5 per message)"

Moral - Don't be the guy in the family who puts politics higher than personal relationships. Who gives a s*** if they think dole bludgers should go and work? Would they help a dying person on the side of the road? Are they loving, kind people? Probably. And aren't these the qualities you should be looking for in people? Lovingness? That's all that counts. Who cares who they vote for. Get over yourself and go to christmas you loser.


I'm not "being that guy" because of politics alone. I'm "that guy" because they are closed minded bigots who don't listen to reason and will argue without ever knowing anything.

Last Christmas I spent with them is a good example; They spent half of it whining about Muslims, the other half berating me for being an atheist.

This is the last in a long list of things that's making me distance myself (the rest of my immediate family is as well, except for my mum, who kind of has to keep those bridges because her sister is the other executor of our grandparents wills. So yeah, gotta be on talking terms.)

But the rest of the family is pretty much sick of them now as well and they have MUCH higher tolerances for asshats than I do.

Look around you.. is anything different since Labour was in power? Did you really notice anything change


Yes, something is VERY different since Labour lost power;

The NBN is currently in the process of being irreversibly wrecked to the tune of many billions of dollars. That alone is enough to make me hate the lying f*****s.

Especially since I'm in the "Woy Woy trial zone" and my internet will be stuck with s*****, broken FTTN that probably won't get half the people around here much faster speeds than ADSL2, except it will be less reliable and more prone to breaking (and again, will be billions of dollars wasted).
06:19pm 13/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
322 posts
Yep - we all know you all get a hard on for politics and that you're socially minded. Typical labour voter. Carrying on about dole bludgers and minimum wages. I've been on income support before and it sucks badly. But you know what I did.. I got a job! It's not hard to go out and just canvas business and ask for work. We live in a bludging generation. You show you want to work and you get work, simple as that. You show you want to work hard and you get hired, simple as that. Stop going on about this hypothetical poor sod on minimum wage.

Pfftt.. 'Managed to submit 20 applications per month.' Are you serious? You're UNEMPLOYED... I mean seriously.. how long does 'attach resume, send email' take? Of the working week, that's 1 JOB EVERY 8 HOURS.. LOL - Poor little bludger, expected to apply for 1 job every 8 hours?? Typical labour voter, out of touch with reality and completely in touch some crazy distortion of the aussie battler. Falling for Bill Shortens BS.

$10 per hour! Oh no.. poor dole bludgers.. you know what that is 40 hours per week? About 370 dollars.. $740 dollars per fortnight.. A good $250 more than the dole itself. You should subsidise businesses for getting these welfare cheats in working for 10$ per hour for cheap labour.. better off overall and gets them off the couch. But then again, labour needs votes.


The right wing is morally bankrupt, they care little for those less well off than they. If you really think that politics doesn't matter they why vote? If you think that politics doesn't matter, why are you spending your time making puerile and sophistic comments. You make judgements with little cause when you should look at yourself, but then again you are wanting.


The only think I am wanting of is for policies which encourage people to get off the couch. But then again, if they're off the couch they're not voting labour...
09:49pm 13/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8952 posts

I've been on income support before and it sucks badly. But you know what I did.. I got a job!

So hold on, you used it to get to a better point, as the stats show the vast majority of people do, but you support trashing the whole system and denying others the same thing that helped you? Every time an admitted conservative voter tries to explain their rationale, it just drives me further and further away from that whole retarded mess of an ideology.

We live in a bludging generation.

That's a narrative, not a fact. The fact is that fewer people than ever are reliant on welfare in Australia, and that the majority of people who have a period of relying on an emergency job seeker's allowance move on from it in the expected time. Furthermore, this generation is facing much higher costs for things like education, housing (several times that as a proportion of income) etc than previous generations did, look at Hockey having a whinge on TV when he was a student because his free education was possibly facing a few hundred dollars in fees once a year. And you call this the bludging generation? Again, narratives over facts.

Pfftt.. 'Managed to submit 20 applications per month.' Are you serious? You're UNEMPLOYED... I mean seriously.. how long does 'attach resume, send email' take?

It was 40 per month, for 6 months, in an unbroken chain, before being able to have any sort of safety net options. How the f*** do you imagine they'll pay for things like Internet, power, computers, rent, etc, to do that? I don't know which s***** places you've worked at, but no real career job can be done on the back of a spammed email. It was in fact business lobbying groups in Australia who complained about that rule the most, because the amount of spammed job applications necessary if even a tiny fraction of the country was unemployed would mean that there'd be more applications than the entire population of Australia each month. Again, you haven't done math, haven't stayed on top of the arguments, and are proving how embarrassing conservative logic is.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-31/abetz-hints-at-job-applications-policy-backdown/5639218

Poor little bludger

I've been on the dole for 2 weeks in my life, because I was actually trying to make something of myself taking risks in a business startup which consumed my life for years, not just relying on handout job positions and payouts like Abbott's family or talking about starting businesses but never doing it like most of the LNP frontbench and the inheritance f*****s who back them from their ivory towers, and in the end it didn't go so well and I had to readjust. Without a safety net, the people actually trying to build things in this country are just given even more disincentives by people who lecture while having never actually done it. It's incredibly cheap, less than a percentage of the budget, and makes sense on so many levels because in real life emergencies do exist. You yourself admitted above that you needed to rely on it while getting a job, yet your apparent 10 year old mind can't connect the dots and process what would have happened if it wasn't available in that time. I get that intelligence really isn't a conservative's thing, but come on, that one should be obvious. Yet everybody is still getting dumber having to hear you guys actually write out what you consider a "thought process" made up of rhetoric, anti-factual statements for circlejerking panic statements about how everybody is so much worse now-a-days, and gross hypocrisy.

$10 per hour!

Well below minimum wage and proven to reduce the rate at which people acquire real jobs in past trials, leading to people being on welfare for longer. Furthermore, it provides incentive for people not to hire people on at real job pay rates, because they can just make use of this system.
10:22pm 13/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
8352 posts
This post has been removed.
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10:42pm 13/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22113 posts
The current government is scrapping another 75 agencies. I love seeing bureaucracy go up in smoke. I hope they shut down more.
11:33pm 13/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7006 posts
bit harsh, fpot
11:40pm 13/12/14 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
5251 posts
it is simple, business, and employee's swap as to holds the sway the most

currently it is business, that holds the power currently

it will not be the next government that changes that, with the dollar sliding, and the price of iron ore, and oil, and gas sliding there will be a suring up of those industries before any meaningful changes are made

my 2 cents
12:09am 14/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1112 posts
The current government is scrapping another 75 agencies. I love seeing bureaucracy go up in smoke. I hope they shut down more.


It's a tiny little appetizer, but they should have done more already.
12:17am 14/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22114 posts
currently it is business, that holds the power currently


The Fair Work Act currently cripples business and the Coalition is terrified of changing it. What makes you think business holds power?

It's a tiny little appetizer, but they should have done more already.


sorry I should have said "175".
12:49am 14/12/14 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
364 posts
"The government had inherited a bloated public service."


These are a small representation of the total cuts, the complete list is rather hard to find.

*Australian Government Solicitor.

* Antarctic Research Assessment Committee.

* National Indigenous Drug and Alcohol Committee.

* Taskforce on national uniform standards for the voluntary microchipping of horses.

* Minister's Dementia Advisory Group.


http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/bbe78dbe54dbed97fda67d5ec7bad3ba6557321b_m.jpg

Tony Abott has been in government for nearly 500 days now, he should stop blaming everyone else and start accepting responsibility.
02:08am 14/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16582 posts

currently it is business, that holds the power currently



The Fair Work Act currently cripples business and the Coalition is terrified of changing it. What makes you think business holds power?


That fact you have people arguing about which side has power possibly implies that it is probably about as equal as it's going to get.
09:02am 14/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2032 posts
The only think I am wanting of is for policies which encourage people to get off the couch. But then again, if they're off the couch they're not voting labour...


So you think that every person who is employed votes for the Local Narcissist Party? I don't even know what distinct lack of logic or common sense could come up with that premise. Worse yet you even think so little of people.

The current government is scrapping another 75 agencies. I love seeing bureaucracy go up in smoke. I hope they shut down more.


It's quite a few more, 175 in fact. Which will be a saving of $500 million over four years.....that's $10.5 million a month stripped from the economy, income tax lost, extra burden on Newstart. Yep, got rid of red tape by shooting ourselves in both feet.....
09:15am 14/12/14 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
5252 posts
The Fair Work Act currently cripples business and the Coalition is terrified of changing it. What makes you think business holds power?.


er that is in relation to employment, and is something that you must be butthurt about

it's also not what I meant
10:15am 14/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
323 posts
I just realised this debate is very, very political in it's less a discussion about policy and more ideological. Which means it is going no where.

Suggestion to get argument productive - lets debate the actual policies themselves and the merits of them. Sound reasonable? (I doubt you politic-philes are capable of such a thing anyway lol)

Lets put our heads together and come up with some decent ideas on how to fix the issues - bipartisan discussion!

It was 40 per month, for 6 months, in an unbroken chain, before being able to have any sort of safety net options. How the f*** do you imagine they'll pay for things like Internet, power, computers, rent, etc, to do that?

That's a narrative, not a fact. The fact is that fewer people than ever are reliant on welfare in Australia, and that the majority of people who have a period of relying on an emergency job seeker's allowance move on from it in the expected time.

It's incredibly cheap, less than a percentage of the budget, and makes sense on so many levels because in real life emergencies do exist.


I agree, agree, agree. 40 applications is stupid. My idea, of factories for unemployed people to work in (on reasonable wages) would work better. A system like Austria, where you are paid your full wage when unemployed, works great as well. Lets differentiate, however, between genuine 'unemployed' and people who don't really want to work. There should be an amazing system in place that helps people who fall from grace, so to speak. But at the same time, people take advantage of the system. They drain the system. To suggest otherwise that they are hardworking people who really want to get up and work is absolute folly. To categorise them as previous is Labour spin. So how to deal with them?

They do exist and need to be dealt with somehow. I think that's what the '40 per month' suggestion was about. So, constructive discussions? How do you deal with people who just want to sit on welfare and not work? Cut payments? Force them to work?

This 'group' is always going to be used for political purposes - Libs - the bludgers, Labour - The Battlers.

So how do we discuss this productively? Well, lets just agree there's a proportion of the population who does take advantage of the welfare system and who is not interested in gainful employment. It is an issue for our 'Ausgamers Government.'

Now lets debate interesting ideas as to how best deal with our issue, with no reference to political ideology...
10:25am 14/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16583 posts

But at the same time, people take advantage of the system. They drain the system.


From what I understand, the amount of people that actually take 'advantage of the system' is rather small, so much so that trying to address it will probably cost more resources than it recovers..
02:03pm 14/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8953 posts
Let's say that theoretically those people exist TDog, what's wrong with the current system of increasingly heavy reviews and required work placement attendance the longer somebody's on centrelink? Why wouldn't the policy by made to deal with those rare cases when they pop up, instead of cancelling and making the whole system broken for the majority of good cases where it's working quite well and quite critical for people to move on in their life, especially young people from non privileged backgrounds. Hell, why is it even treated like a huge costly issue when it makes up almost none of the budget.
02:30pm 14/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1113 posts


These are a small representation of the total cuts, the complete list is rather hard to find.

*Australian Government Solicitor.

* Antarctic Research Assessment Committee.

* National Indigenous Drug and Alcohol Committee.

* Taskforce on national uniform standards for the voluntary microchipping of horses.

* Minister's Dementia Advisory Group.


http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/bbe78dbe54dbed97fda67d5ec7bad3ba6557321b_m.jpg

Tony Abott has been in government for nearly 500 days now, he should stop blaming everyone else and start accepting responsibility.



How will our country possibly function without all these committee and advisory groups full of overpaid bureaucrats!



It's quite a few more, 175 in fact. Which will be a saving of $500 million over four years.....that's $10.5 million a month stripped from the economy, income tax lost, extra burden on Newstart. Yep, got rid of red tape by shooting ourselves in both feet.....


How will the income tax be lost when the money being paid to them in the first place is from the taxpayer? herp derpppppp
03:24pm 14/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1667 posts

RIP NBN

2007 - 2014



http://www.zdnet.com/article/nbn-co-and-telstra-sign-amended-11-billion-deal/

http://www.telstra.com.au/aboutus/media/media-releases/telstra-signs-revised-nbn-definitive-agreements-1.xml

With such amazing additions as;

"NBN Co will take over remediation of the pits and ducts, something that had been an issue for Telstra in 2013, when asbestos was discovered in several pits across Australia."

and

“We have retained existing shareholder protections and also negotiated new protections for shareholders in lieu of the protection that our continued ownership of the copper and HFC network assets provided under the original agreements,”


I think it's safe to say that, even if Labour get back into power, we're getting an expensive, multi-billion dollar network that will be obsolete by the time it's rolled out and cost much more in the end.

Now, we not only have the billions for copper maintenance every year, now we have to remediate it and the pits too.

After Project Fox coming to light, this means that now we're paying MORE for a s***** network that will just be torn down and rebuilt with the FTTP we should have going in now (in 5-10 years IF WE ARE LUCKY!).

So now we're actually paying more like 2x what the Labour plan was... How the f*** are these criminals allowed to do this bulls***!?

Also, buy shares in Telstra while you can. Might as well start making something back from the fleecing we're all going to get again (and may get worse, as it seems Telstra will own the FTTN when NBN Co is sold off).
05:49pm 14/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22115 posts
How will the income tax be lost when the money being paid to them in the first place is from the taxpayer? herp derpppppp


In HurricaineJim's bizarro world everyone works for the government.
06:57pm 14/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
324 posts
Refusal to work towards bipartisan solutions - again.. the anathema of the politic-phile.
09:12pm 14/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1502 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
09:42pm 14/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22116 posts
Such a yogurt Brool thinking that public servants don't pay taxes. In fact it's quite incestuous as they pay taxes which pays themselves.


only a small fraction of their salary is paid back to the commonwealth government (maybe 20%) - some more goes to state and local government. but the rest of the commonwealth public service is paid for by people with real jobs who instead do productive stuff.

HJ has post some great magic pudding Labor logic for all to enjoy right there. it's on par with fpot's "let's accept all the boat people, it won't cost that much or change our society".

Actually, anyone who pays tax works for the government.


and you conveniently bring us to the second point. taxpayers don't work for the government, they don't get paid for by the government, and they don't take direction from the government. Hurricane Jim you seem to struggle with the basic concepts of government - ideas which are taught in grade six these days.

It was 40 per month, for 6 months, in an unbroken chain, before being able to have any sort of safety net options.


I agree, it's a waste of resources. If a person cannot do 20 they sure as s*** cannot do 40. Lazy poor applications take up about 30 seconds of my time each but multitudes of them can add up to a lot of wasted time. It's better to get genuine applications from people who really want the work.
10:47pm 14/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8954 posts
but the rest of the commonwealth public service is paid for by people with real jobs who instead do productive stuff.

In your face soldiers, police officers, ambulance and paramedic workers, emergency surgeons, teachers, scientists, courts, building safety regulators, navy crew workers, street cleaners, garbage collectors, antarctic researchers, climate monitors, local ecosystem managers, etc, some privileged soft c*** who got given a cushy high paying job at his dad's company is going to lecture you on how you don't do anything productive for society and don't know what heroically making your own way like he does is like, achieving so much without ever being given anything by anybody lawl. We totes don't need you c**** doing your "work", we'd all be far better off without you, and be richer than eva. Just like the people in the countries without these things lol lol.
11:15pm 14/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22117 posts
wow what a smart arse. look at the 175 agencies that are about to be shut down without anyone blinking an eyelid. you damn well know what i am talking about.

there are plenty of fantastic public servants that do great work for our community and none of them are commonwealth public servants. too smart by half nerf. how many cwth department of health employee treat patients?
11:19pm 14/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8955 posts
At least half of those are federally funded, and state funded is such a non-technicality that you're just insulting everybody who has to read your bulls*** now.
11:24pm 14/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4130 posts
This was posted to reddit. great points.



Don't privatise.
11:41pm 14/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22118 posts

The study, commissioned by the NSW Treasury and conducted by Ernst & Young, finds that since Victoria and South Australia sold their poles and wires ­network costs — the costs to transmit electricity from a power station to a home — have fallen 18 per cent and 17 per cent in real terms respectively.

But in NSW and Queensland, where the state still owns the networks, prices have soared 122 per cent and 140 per cent. These transmission costs are up to half of a consumer’s electricity bill.

The report says that, even at a retail level, residents in South Australia ($1481) and Victoria ($1495) pay considerably less than those in NSW ($1925) and Queensland ($1547).

Victoria privatised its electricity distributors in 1995-96 and South Australia in 1999-2000.

Since privatisation, Victorians pay $743 more for their power and South Australians $660 more. Over the same period, NSW users pay $1180 more and Queenslanders $932 more.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/privatised-power-cheaper-says-report/story-e6frgczx-1226948700337

hmmm that's awkward
12:01am 15/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4131 posts
Can't read that s***** biased paywall site
12:17am 15/12/14 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1835 posts
hmmm that's awkward
No, what's awkward is you haven't said why. Not privatisation it self but what are they doing that's different now (in private hands) when compared to before (in public hands) that has allowed for this delta?

Can you tell me infi? I know why but do you?

I reviewed two of the major electricity distribution network companies in Victoria last year re: Integrated Work Management and Asset Management (the largest cost centres) for the purposes of Higher Productivity, Greater Effectiveness and Improved Efficiency, Lower CAPEX and OPEX Costs, Higher Asset Integrity and Reliability, Lower Downtime etc. So please tell me why infi?

It's not due the fact privatisation improved efficiency or productivity, cause it didn't improve any of that, an outcome we observed and reported in our review.

I'll also point out the number of outages with these networks has increased dramatically especially in rural Victoria. Even in Melbourne, Citipower has it's worked cut out with the high number of outages across Melbourne. This should help you work out the answer.

Also I've read the Ernst & Young report and it's full of holes and actually piss poor. The quality of the report was lousy and the assumptions and hypothesis were outdated and incorrect. As far as I am aware they didn't even interview a single person in the business. No voice of customer whatsoever. The detail was lacking and in places non-existent.

It was actually the report we reviewed and referenced in our own review and detailed how lacking it was. Ernst & Young are not the be all and end all in consulting to utilities, far from it. That's why we were brought in after them. I actually work for one of the largest Utility Consultancies globally and we do this everyday for breakfast.


last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 00:24:47 15/Dec/14
12:19am 15/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22119 posts
I reviewed two of the major electricity distribution network companies in Victoria last year re: Integrated Work Management and Asset Management (the largest cost centres) for the purposes of Higher Productivity, Greater Effectiveness and Improved Efficiency, Lower CAPEX and OPEX Costs, Higher Asset Integrity and Reliability, Lower Downtime etc. So please tell me why infi?


I would imagine it's primarily due to more flexible and efficient industrial relations outcomes. when there is no longer a pussy Labor government dictating industrial outcomes to a power company CEO, miracles can happen. instead of gold plating infrastructure, capex and maintenance is also probably lower, there will be an error rate but consumers will not be paying a premium to get that extra sigma of uptime.
12:34am 15/12/14 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1836 posts
I would imagine it's primarily due to more flexible and efficient industrial relations outcomes. when there is no longer a pussy Labor government dictating industrial outcomes to a power company CEO, miracles can happen. instead of gold plating infrastructure, capex and maintenance is also probably lower, there will be an error rate but consumers will not be paying a premium to get that extra sigma of uptime.


You didn't think that threw very well did you. It's nothing to do with the above. Let me repeat that, it's nothing to do with Governments or policy nor Labor nor industrial relations nor gold plating nor anything you mentioned.


In actual fact the 1st Private owner (USA, back in the 90's) operated the company so poorly and inefficiently they lost a fortune and so onsold it to another private company (Hong Kong) and they too have been operating it poorly and inefficiently and making an enormous annual loss. That's why they're going through a major restructure and trying to trim $350million from annual operating expenditure.

This is not the answer though. I'm just rebutting your remark about inefficiencies can only be the work of Government ownership or meddling when it's proven unfettered Utilities privatisation without significant regulation has done little in these areas globally.

The Utilities sector in the UK is lightyears ahead of us and are considered the global benchmark and they're privatised but heavily regulated. Less regulation has proven to equate to lower quality service for a higher price.

last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 01:07:22 15/Dec/14
01:05am 15/12/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8847 posts
BB based forums used to have a similar issue IIRC after 100 pages, same as in Whirlpool (they remake after 100 pages)

Yeah, but this is more because Whirlpool mods are retarded, and would rather you have everything even remotely related put in a single thread "Part 47" - rather than something sensible like creating a thread for that specific area of discussion of the topic. Of course it means it's impossible to follow discussions.
08:14am 15/12/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8848 posts
Pfftt.. 'Managed to submit 20 applications per month.' Are you serious? You're UNEMPLOYED... I mean seriously.. how long does 'attach resume, send email' take? Of the working week, that's 1 JOB EVERY 8 HOURS.. LOL - Poor little bludger, expected to apply for 1 job every 8 hours?? Typical labour voter, out of touch with reality and completely in touch some crazy distortion of the aussie battler. Falling for Bill Shortens BS.

You clearly have no grasp on reality if this is the way you think it is.

I'm the periods where I was out of work for a few weeks, even within the first weeks you ran out of positions that were available to apply for after the initial batch. There's always one reason or another not to apply for one - in IT it's usually because they want six years experience in a technology that's only been around for three years, and want to pay less than a graduate wage for it. And then the remainder will reject you because you're "too experienced for this role".

These are laws made by people who have never actually had to be in the situation of looking for jobs in the current/recent age.
08:26am 15/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16584 posts
Some Fat Bastard, no no no you are wrong. My Political Party and the totally trustworthy, always factually correct and absolutely competent journalistic experts in whatever field they are 'investigating' told me it was wires and poles. So you can take your stupid report and expert 'opinions' with 1st hand knowledge to someone who cares. I can tell you it isn't the Liberal Party, so don't waste your time there.

edit:


"We remain on a believable and responsible path to surplus, but we will get there slightly less quickly than we would have liked," Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said.


Lolz, just like Labor was going to do anyway.. so why did we waste all that money changing governments, we should have just stuck with the previous ones.

Oh and this gem from Hockey:


Last year, he said: "Old Swanny likes to blame everyone else."


It's all Labor's fault! This has pretty much been Liberals Mantra from before the election and they are still doing it 500 days later. Good one Hockey.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 08:52:55 15/Dec/14
08:46am 15/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
325 posts
It's great so many of you feel so passionately about politics. You're so caught up in either ideology that you blatantly and willingly swallow whatever side chooses to tell you. You're so close minded that you'll even 'magic' away your own sides mistakes and continue mindlessly arguing the rhetoric. Scroll up a bit and have a look at what I did.. I admitted the 40 jobs per month was a bad idea. Maybe, due to the political blind spots most of you have, you missed it. I sway more towards Liberal.. but at the same time I'm able to objectively analyse the policies and come to an educated decision on them.

That this thread has gone on for about a year now and no conclusion has been reached on anything really, really proves the point that politics is a bit senseless. When you cut down this discussion to the core it's really a simple as this:

My team is the best.

No, my team is the best.

Politics has become less intelligence and more siding with two broad ideologies, filled with Rhetoric and lies. Either side you vote for, you're going to get lies. Either side you vote for, the approval ratings are going to be down. Either side you vote for, the government is going to get shredded in the media. Either side you vote for, the government is going to be shown to be doing a bad job!

You are subscribing to a system which allows the super rich to form a political party and start influencing the nation. If you're going to debate something, debate that. It might make you look more intelligent, instead of mindless, moronic worker ants. Because that's what you effectively are, the worker ants of the bilateral political hive minds. You're the ants who mindlessly follow the rhetoric, who disregard facts, who partake in senseless debates. Political conflicts are mostly always data conflicts, as both sides manipulate the data to suit their own purposes. And what is the point of debating data which is not reliable? It is not scientific, not logical and achieves nothing. You are subscribing to this ridiculous, senseless and almost object-less system.

I point out the futility of really voting for either party but there exists an almost hopeless belief that by somehow voting for your party of choice, life will be better. A magic wand will be waved and all of a sudden electricity bills will be halved, the planet will be saved or millions more jobs will appear. Is it because as humans, we seek leaders and great monarchs who will make the hard decisions for the masses? Do we need those strong personalities leading us to help us in our day to day lives? I think genetically and evolutionarily, we've always needed that. We have always needed a leader of the tribe, someone who can lead us out of darkness. But like all humans, we are never satisfied with those leaders. The heroes and generals of old, Alexander, Ghengis Khan, Ceasar, Hitler.. do not exist anymore. A new age has dawned where humans can more than ever express their individuality. We are now no longer a sea of ants but a collection of individual minds, intelligent enough to scientifically assess in a rational way the things before us.

Current politics and this thread is not that. There's no rationality, only irrationality. I bet if I took most of the die hard fans of either side and put them in a room and asked them questions, they would have an extremely hard time admitting the mistakes that had been made by their chosen team. They would rationalise those mistakes as being a good thing, as being something that was necessary or driven by a higher holier purpose. That is a problem. That is the problem.

When, as a collective group, we lean away from scientific rationale and towards rhetoric and ideology, we take a step back as a race. We effectively devolve as humans. We need to start recognising these things that hold us back - politics, religion and popular media. We need to start demanding more from those we put in charge and by those who tell us what we want to know. More reason, more logic and more science. The political debate should be centred around agreed facts. It should be centred around undeniable truths which are jointly agreed upon by both parties. Most of this debate has been about facts and interpreting those facts in light of the ideologies. That might work, but not when those facts are so dubious.

By having such a long and arduous debate about a system which is inherently broken, relies on dubious facts and outright lies, broad, general and grandiose rhetoric and pure personality, you are subscribing to a system of ever increasing ignorance.

Tl;dr version: A system where political debate was centred around 'agreed truths' would result in policy which is more sensible, realistic and scientifically sound.
09:45am 15/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16585 posts

Tl;dr version: A system where political debate was centred around 'agreed truths' would result in policy which is more sensible, realistic and scientifically sound.


Yeah, you see this thread, 'agreed truths' would be just as messy. Look at Infi, he is practically being offered reasons of the cost disparity of electricity between states, by a well experienced man in a senior position of a international company who has 1st hand experience and yet he chooses to ignore and even refute it, without even finding out what it was. You expect 'agreed truths' from that?
10:26am 15/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1541 posts

Get ready for some knee jerk surveillance laws to be enacted.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-clear-martin-place-after-gunman-reported-at-lindt-chocolate-cafe-20141214-127824.html

I'm in a building opposite, we're in lockdown also.

F*****g deranged a*******s. Hope everyone in there makes it out safe.


10:36am 15/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2034 posts
and you conveniently bring us to the second point. taxpayers don't work for the government, they don't get paid for by the government, and they don't take direction from the government..


All the people who have served in the ADF are nothing to you, certainly not taxpayers on an equal footing? Is it because you think they don't pay income tax? Are you that ignorant?

I'm glad I served and bled for Australia so people like you have the freedom to think and say what you want.

Here is a present for you;

https://darkjade68.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/white-feather.jpg
10:47am 15/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8965 posts

The coalition government has now committed so much spending to their pet projects and ideological crusades that spending over the next few years is going to be higher than it ever was under labor except the year of the stimulus, and only .1 of a percent below that. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/koukoulas-myefo-warning-fails-to-curb-spending-spree/5969364

Higher taxing party too.

And people still swallow their rubbish.


06:34pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38703 posts
i do agree that my team is the best.

only cos the other team are such greedy a*******s so totally removed from the real world due to not living in it.
06:40pm 16/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22129 posts
All the people who have served in the ADF are nothing to you, certainly not taxpayers on an equal footing? Is it because you think they don't pay income tax? Are you that ignorant?


you are an idiot. defence personnel still pay a wide variety of taxes, aside from income tax, GST for starters. don't try and turn this into a hating on the defence forces thing.

government is the servant, not the master. you come across regarding an all powerful government as a romantic idea.

Yeah, you see this thread, 'agreed truths' would be just as messy. Look at Infi, he is practically being offered reasons of the cost disparity of electricity between states, by a well experienced man in a senior position of a international company who has 1st hand experience and yet he chooses to ignore and even refute it, without even finding out what it was. You expect 'agreed truths' from that?


there was zero content or reasoning to SFB's post. He just said I was wrong and did not offer alternative reasons for the disparity in prices. furthermore why would SFB criticise the Ernst and Young research paper which was merely stating the actual cost of elefctricity prices - SFB is just shooting the messenger.

The coalition government has now committed so much spending to their pet projects and ideological crusades that spending over the next few years is going to be higher than it ever was under labor except the year of the stimulus, and only .1 of a percent below that.




A lot more spending cuts are required. We living way beyond our means. Labor is blocking spending cuts and then accuse the Coalition of not managing the budget.... hurrrrr

only cos the other team are such greedy a*******s so totally removed from the real world due to not living in it.


spook just likes free money
06:47pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38704 posts
not likes, deserves.
07:24pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16630 posts


there was zero content or reasoning to SFB's post. He just said I was wrong and did not offer alternative reasons for the disparity in prices


Did you not read his posts? He asked you if you wanted to know. lol, fkn troll.

Just to recap for you:

SFB;


I reviewed two of the major electricity distribution network companies in Victoria last year re: Integrated Work Management and Asset Management (the largest cost centres) for the purposes of Higher Productivity, Greater Effectiveness and Improved Efficiency, Lower CAPEX and OPEX Costs, Higher Asset Integrity and Reliability, Lower Downtime etc. So please tell me why infi?

It's not due the fact privatisation improved efficiency or productivity, cause it didn't improve any of that, an outcome we observed and reported in our review.


Infi:


I would imagine it's primarily due to more flexible and efficient industrial relations outcomes. when there is no longer a pussy Labor government dictating industrial outcomes to a power company CEO, miracles can happen. instead of gold plating infrastructure, capex and maintenance is also probably lower, there will be an error rate but consumers will not be paying a premium to get that extra sigma of uptime.


sfb:


You didn't think that threw very well did you. It's nothing to do with the above. Let me repeat that, it's nothing to do with Governments or policy nor Labor nor industrial relations nor gold plating nor anything you mentioned.


In actual fact the 1st Private owner (USA, back in the 90's) operated the company so poorly and inefficiently they lost a fortune and so onsold it to another private company (Hong Kong) ...


You got shot down and instead of attempting to learn the real reasons, you totally ignored it. You ignore things a lot when it doesn't go with your distorted world view it seems.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 20:13:25 16/Dec/14
08:05pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4136 posts

government is the servant, not the master. you come across regarding an all powerful government as a romantic idea.


A powerful servant is better than a small & weak one.
More public ownership is far better for the public than corporate monopolies with only profit incentive for its managers and shareholders.
Government ownership is superior because the profit goes back to the community, provided the democratic process is a solid one.
08:08pm 16/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2037 posts
and you conveniently bring us to the second point. taxpayers don't work for the government, they don't get paid for by the government, and they don't take direction from the government.


So this doesn't mean as you wrote it? Jellyfish Joe much? Perhaps write what you mean clearly.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10868270_705114836252238_663190137972379095_n.jpg?oh=719ac7f7b1d0486bed725dfccb14bfb9&oe=550B5031&__gda__=1426679416_a06c3de8bc52cdfc360192c723271637


Please while you're at it tell me clearly where the $667 billion is;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/5967924/data/myedo-chart-four-data.png
08:27pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
10339 posts
Infi is funny.

He compared infrastructure costs in a state that got hit by large scale floods (larger than the state of Victoria) and a category 5 cyclone. To two states who had nothing even similar in scale.

Good Job Infi.
09:20pm 16/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8966 posts
A lot more spending cuts are required. We living way beyond our means. Labor is blocking spending cuts and then accuse the Coalition of not managing the budget.... hurrrrr

Yeah cause Labor blocking cuts somehow forced the government to increase spending dramatically on all sorts of nonsense like school chaplains, windfarm illness studies, "direct action" payouts to polluters, and military action in the middle east. laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl, you are such a broken record.
09:26pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4137 posts
not to mention cutting incoming revenue such as mining & carbon taxes. absolutely retarded government.
09:35pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16631 posts
But guys, LABOR WAS GOING TO BE IN DEFICIT!!11oneone


Lol, maybe this is Liberals master plan to f*** the budget over so they can say 'See we were right, we have a budget emergency!'
10:28pm 16/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22130 posts
Infi is funny.

He compared infrastructure costs in a state that got hit by large scale floods (larger than the state of Victoria) and a category 5 cyclone. To two states who had nothing even similar in scale.

Good Job Infi.


Good job using 2 natural disasters to justify significantly higher electricity prices indefinitely into the future. Do you also believe in the Unicorns?


Yeah cause Labor blocking cuts somehow forced the government to increase spending dramatically on all sorts of nonsense like school chaplains, windfarm illness studies, "direct action" payouts to polluters, and military action in the middle east. laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl, you are such a broken record.


Im in favour of axing all that too.
10:38pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1550 posts
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B48nXfjCcAAifwW.png

Right wing journo Miranda Devine thinks that @boltcomments is a fictional account when it's really comments from people who think the same way as her.
10:42pm 16/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16632 posts
Infi once again ignoring the fact he got shut down by SFB and refuses to learn from it.
10:55pm 16/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22133 posts
SFB did not offer a single reason for the disparity. Read what you quoted.
11:02pm 16/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8967 posts
Im in favour of axing all that too.

So why on Earth did you have a go at Labor saying they're blocking the coalition from improving the situation, when the coalition is directly responsible for massively worsening the situation? Labor (and Palmer etc) didn't force the Coalition to add any of this new spending.
11:03pm 16/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22134 posts
Because there should have been no new spending AND the cuts Labor blocked. That could have halved the deficit $20b.
11:08pm 16/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8968 posts
And so I'll repeat my question, why did you have a go at Labor, implying that it was all their fault, when it is the coalition who has worsened the situation entirely on their own accord?
11:21pm 16/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22135 posts
And so I'll repeat my question, why did you have a go at Labor, implying that it was all their fault, when it is the coalition who has worsened the situation entirely on their own accord?


because they simply exacerbated the problem.
11:24pm 16/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8969 posts
Who did? Labor is the only government we've had in decades who has cut federal spending, most of our spending problems are Coalition based which Labor was trying to wind back, and now that the Coalition is back in power, stupid spending has skyrocketed again, yet you're having a go at Labor as if they're somehow responsible for the Coalition worsening the position (you were directly replying to my quoted article about how much new spending the coalition has added, you somehow twisted it to "F*****g Labor", your insane probably mentally ill partisanship and twisting of every god damn thing into being a backwards to support your argument makes this board near unusable for non crazy people).
12:53am 17/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22136 posts
have Labor blocked spending cuts measures?
01:05am 17/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8970 posts
Yes, along with Palmer, independents, etc, and how is that at all a response to my link about how the Coalition has massively increased spending independently of that and are very proving themselves not a fiscally restrained party? That spending under their party is going to be much higher than it was under 7 years of Labor except for 1 stimulus year? It's just an embarrassing excuse at a distraction and trying to turn their failure onto the other party somehow, because you're an unhinged partisan cheerleader who refuses to improve.

And even if every single one of their originally proposed cuts went through (at great damage to consumer confidence, economic stability for young people, scientific output, education availability, etc), they had new spending lined up for 97% of those 'emergency spending cuts' (which were purely ideological). They were never going to change the state of the budget, just move it to bulls*** that they preferred (chaplains, witch hunts of green alternatives, handouts for carbon emitters, etc).
02:24am 17/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1551 posts
08:42am 17/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
329 posts
It's just an embarrassing excuse at a distraction and trying to turn their failure onto the other party somehow, because you're an unhinged partisan cheerleader who refuses to improve..


You all automatically do this by default. Point to one occasion on these entire two threads anyone has admitted their own party has made a mistake.
08:55am 17/12/14 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14078 posts
I'm pretty sure Labor are doing what an opposition is suppose to, and stopping "spending cuts" that are deemed far too hurtful to an economy that is already quite fragile. You really think a $7 GP tax and unlocking uni fees is going to help when unemployment is rising and jobs are being lost left and right? Surely there are other means to saving money, without affecting those of the lowest order.

Oh wait, those gigantic businesses that are getting away with laughable tax.
09:12am 17/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16633 posts
Come now infi, you did a Law Degree, even you should be able to discern that SFB was probing you to ask him for the real reasons. He wants you to actually ask him before he will tell you, a bit of a power trip though.
You refuse to ask. So in order to save your ego a bit and not give in to SPB, you choose to ignore it and at the same time remain ignorant into the real reasons of the disparity. Never mind though.


have Labor blocked spending cuts measures?


Yes, because they were terrible and unfair. The coalition did an abysmal job of explaining their measures in a way that gains wide support. The charisma of the leaders is so piss poor that people just don't want to follow them.

This is why it is important to have strong, charismatic leader(s). These leaders should heavily follow advice from the experts and then use their charisma to bring the people to their support. Yes, people should vote based on policies and evidence that are for the better of the nation.
However we tend to vote on what we feel to be the better policies, heavily influenced by the media, the charismatic spin of the leaders and most importantly, the social influence of friends, family and the wider population.

This is the main reason why Tony Abbot was a super piss poor choice of leaders, he is incredibly uncharismatic in the media and his front bench isn't much better, Christopher Pyne? Eww, Joe Hockey? Another fail.
These 3 people alone, make people squirm in the seats, they don't want to listen to them, they don't believe them, I bet many people choose to support the opposite of what they say just because of the above.

09:25am 17/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16634 posts
Most people understand that we are in deficit due to the large downturn in the economy, particularly commodity prices.

What the Liberal government has so far failed to tell me (as well as Labor) is what are they doing, precisely, to help guide Australia's future away from a mining based one and to a more diverse economy.
IMO the only way the budget is going to really get back on track is for the above to happen, in the mean time we are going to have to spend more than we make for a few years whilst it happens, it could be a long time.
However, what we need to see is a fairly detailed plan from the major partie(s) on exactly how they plan to go about this.

As such, Liberals need to explain, quite thoroughly, WHY they believe uncapping uni fees is a way to do this. As it stands, it just seems like a method to gain a bit of short term relief on the budget for no real long term benefit and possible long term harm.

Does repealing the mining tax help the above happen? No, not really, again short term relief is what it seems to be about, perhaps a bit of long term gain at the cost of relying on mining further.

I don't want to hear dumb phrases like 'Moving Australia Forward' unless it is accompanied by detailed information instead of further catch phrases. Most of the pollies speeches are just a string of dumb phrases with no real content.
09:33am 17/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4138 posts
Yup the cuts put huge strains on the economy, further reducing revenue, and just killing any kind of savings you made by doing said cuts.
The cuts that would not f*** the economy would be taxing the rich. They have huge amounts of unused wealth that if, even half of it went missing, it would not harm the economy at all.
That's what these righties don't understand. Low to middle income earners *are* the economy. The rich thrive off the people, and that's how they have their wealth.
Banks, in particular, well known for mass corruption should be taxed heavily, and put that wealth back into the community, pay back the debt you owe to the people for causing the GFC.
11:42am 17/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1118 posts

The OCED has welcomed the MYFEO but has warned it simply doesn't go far enough, while Labor/Greens and other socialist Vash types scream that it goes too far. Not to mention that Labor still denies the existence of a budget problem.

They have warned without change, we are going to be in serious trouble and have urged the Gov to do more in terms of tax cuts and GST increases.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-17/oecd-welcomes-myefo-restraint-but-urges-gst-increase/5971426

The Gov needs to ignore the vocal minority and go for the big changes. Raise the GST, cut super tax concessions etc.


01:21pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4139 posts
02:18pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14089 posts
What exactly would happen if the government decided to look at superannuation taxes?
03:54pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1553 posts
What exactly would happen if the government decided to look at superannuation taxes?


A few rich old people would be super ticked off like what happened with the mining tax so nothing will be done.

It's funny how some income is different from other incomes like capital gains and super vs payroll. They should fix it.
04:11pm 17/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2041 posts
Since the TV news has remained locked all day on a riveting image of a phone box in Martin Place, here is the list of the nationwide services which were cut by the Federal government.

The list was compiled earlier by March Australia. And it's a lot more than just cuts to services. The LNP has abolished most of the government. They've abolished forestry and water regulators, aged care and education panels, anti-doping authorities in sport, support services for apprentices and small businesses ... it just goes on and on. Democracy has just had all of its teeth pulled out, and Australia is absolutely CLOSED FOR BUSINESS, unless your business is based overseas.

Weirdest of all are the several items on the list which haven't been abolished, cancelled, annulled or terminated, but simply 'silenced' ...

Cuts the Australian Government Solicitor
Cuts the Telework Advisory Panel
Cuts the Protection Zone Committees
Cuts the Forces Entertainment Board
Cuts the Antarctic Research Assessment Committee
Cuts the Australian Antarctic Names and Medals Committee
Cuts the Biological Diversity Advisory Committee
Cuts the Climate Adaptation Outlook Independent Expert Group
Cuts the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Advisory Board
Cuts the Health and Hospitals Fund Advisory Board
Cuts the National Advisory for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment
Cuts the Inspector of Transport Security
Cuts the Reconstruction Inspectorate
Cuts the Development Allowance Authority
Abolishes the Artbank Advisory Committee
Abolishes the Australian and New Zealand Standard Diagnostic Procedures Working Group
Abolishes the Benchmarks Working Group which monitors acute hospital performance
Abolishes the Department of Agriculture – Live Animal Export Division – Industry Government Implementation Group
Abolishes the Forestry and Forest Products Committee
Abolishes the National Surveillance and Diagnostics Working Group
Abolishes the Laboratories for Emergency Animal Disease Diagnosis and Response Working Group
Abolishes the National Strategies Working Group
Abolishes the New Test Evaluation Working Group
Abolishes the Rabies Preparedness Working Group
Abolishes the Subcommittee on Animal Health Laboratory Standards
Abolishes the Australian Defence Force Financial Services Consumer Council
Abolishes the Department of Defence Diversity Advisory Group
Abolishes the Committee which was overseeing reform to the repair and maintenance of the Navy’s ships
Abolishes the Department of Defence CEO’s round table
Abolishes the Standing Council on School Education and Early Childhood Joint Working Group to Provide Advice on Students with Disability
Abolishes the Fair Work Building and Construction Independent Assessor
Abolishes the National Precincts Board
Abolishes the Pharmaceutical Industry Working Group
Abolishes the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics Advisory Board
Abolishes the Inter-Jurisdictional Working Group
Abolishes the Local Government Ministers’ Forum
Abolishes the National Disaster Recovery Taskforce
Abolishes the Urban Policy Forum
Abolishes the Australian Council of Local Government
Abolishes the Official Establishments Trust
Abolishes the ANZAC Centenary Public Fund Board
Abolishes the Australian National Memorial New Zealand Advisory Panel
Abolishes the Community Nursing Clinical Advisory Committee
Abolishes the eHealth Technical Advisory Group
Abolishes the Gulf War Study Advisory Committee
Abolishes the Medicines Advice and Therapeutics Education Services Practitioner Reference Group
Abolishes the Medicines Advice and Therapeutics Education Services Veterans Reference Group
Abolishes the Medicines Advice and Therapeutics Education Services Writing Group
Abolishes the Peacekeepers Study Advisory Committee
Abolishes the research working group
Dismantles the Vietnam Veterans Education Centre
Abolishes the Strategic Cross-sectoral Data Committee for Early Childhood, Education and Training
Dismantles the Australian Qualifications Framework Council
Wipes out the Education Investment Fund Advisory Board
Cancels the COAG Select Council on Workplace Relations
Abolishes the Antarctic Science Advisory Committee
Abolishes the Bureau of Meteorology Water Accounting Standards Board
Abolishes the COAG Standing Council on Environment and Water
Disbands the Commonwealth Environmental Water Stakeholder Reference Panel
Abolishes the Emissions Intensive – Trade Exposed Expert Advisory Committee
Abolishes the Fuel Standards Consultative Committee
Disbands the Iconic Sites Taskforce
Gets rid of the Indigenous Water Advisory Committee
Abolishes the National Landscapes Reference Committee
Disbands the National Marine Mammal Advisory Committee
Abolishes the National Marine Mammal Scientific Committee
Disbands the Australia Awards Board
Abolishes the Tourism Quality Council of Australia
Disbands the Anti-Doping Research Panel
Disbands the Department of Human Services Council on Strategy and Innovation
Abolishes the Gas Market – Industry Reference Group
Abolishes the Technical Advisory Committee for the Coal Mining Abatement Technology Support Package
Annuls the Infrastructure Coordinator
Silences the Northern Australia Indigenous Experts Forum on sustainable Economic Development
Terminates the Expert Advisory Panel on Northern Australia
Abolishes the Marine Council
Dismantles the Northern Australia Ministerial Forum
Annuls the Regional Australia Standing Council
Cancels the Australia in the Asian Century Advisory Board
Abolishes the First Peoples Education Advisory Group
Cancels the Indigenous Development effectiveness Initiative Steering Committee
Abolishes the Aged Care Standards and Accreditation Agency Ltd
Cancels the Aged Care Planning Advisory Committee
Annuls the Aged Care Reform Implementation Council
Cancels the Healthy Life Better Ageing Committee
Silences the Minister’s Dementia Advisory Group
Abolishes the National Children and Family Roundtable
Silences the National Injury Insurance Scheme Advisory Group
Abolishes the Australian Financial Centre Taskforce
Abolishes the Current and Former Members of the ADF Emerging Issues Forum
Cancels the National Health, Aged and Community Care Forum
Abolishes the Operational Working Party which advises government on the needs of the ex-service community
Cuts funding for the National Trade Cadetships programme
Ceases payments to apprentices under Support for Adult Australian Apprenticeships program
Abolishes the Australian Workforce and Productivity Agency

Cuts 26 more government bodies down to 6
06:52pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16636 posts
175 agencies cuts, cant find much info on how many jobs that will be that are lost.

I wonder what the net difference in savings is after you Axe all those jobs, those people go on unemployment benefits and no longer pay taxes?

Oh well, when times get tough and we have a struggling economy I hear cutting services, increasing unemployment and increasing taxes is the best way to get out of it, cheers Liberals.
07:21pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4140 posts
the private industry will take care of all those!@&&
07:34pm 17/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2042 posts
175 agencies cuts, cant find much info on how many jobs that will be that are lost.

I wonder what the net difference in savings is after you Axe all those jobs, those people go on unemployment benefits and no longer pay taxes?

Oh well, when times get tough and we have a struggling economy I hear cutting services, increasing unemployment and increasing taxes is the best way to get out of it, cheers Liberals.


Supposedly 500 million over 4 years, equates to 10.5 million per month.
08:25pm 17/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16637 posts
Well lets say there are 20 people per department that is getting axed.

That's about 3500 people. If they all go to unemployment and receive centrelink payments, that is costing about $3.9M per month. Also, those people wont be paying tax, so add another $1.5M to that for an average of $40,000 income they would have been earning. $5.4M is lost from the government coffers.

So the net savings is initially only half that. 250million over 4 years. Of course I would assume some of those people would get jobs relatively quickly, others will struggle longer as the job market isn't strong. I'm also sure more were earning >$40K.

When the government does its savings numbers form cutting costs like it is, does it already include the lost income from tax and expected unemployment benefits it has to then hand out? Also does it take into consideration severance costs?
So what I'm asking, is that 500 Million total net savings or not?
10:28pm 17/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1119 posts
Sounds good to me. Cheaper and more efficient.
01:15am 18/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38706 posts
06:54am 18/12/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8860 posts
175 agencies cuts, cant find much info on how many jobs that will be that are lost.

We've cut about 580 jobs just at Melbourne Uni alone. Lots of people finishing up tomorrow (even though officially their end date is Dec 31), with another lot of remaining people to finish up in Jan/Feb if they're needed to hand over work or finish up projects.
08:41am 18/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4141 posts
12:22pm 18/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
841 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
01:46pm 18/12/14 Permalink
justrev
Melbourne, Victoria
513 posts


When the government does its savings numbers form cutting costs like it is, does it already include the lost income from tax and expected unemployment benefits it has to then hand out? Also does it take into consideration severance costs?


No it does not include lost income from tax or additional unemployment benefits (or lost gst thru lost spending power)
They have a system where they say "that's a different bucket" as if money was in buckets which could not be mixed or aggregated.

Also even tho a lot of the redundant public servants may find work this would only displace some other job seeker, net unemployed will increase by at least the number of redundancies and by flow on fiscal effects of less 'readies' in the economy.

The cost of administering USB would also have to increase.
02:22pm 18/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22137 posts
Sharing this country with right wingers like infi, brool and the below.. it's hard at times.


#illridewithyou - another meaningless effort-free gimmick that requires zero follow through.

No it does not include lost income from tax or additional unemployment benefits (or lost gst thru lost spending power)
They have a system where they say "that's a different bucket" as if money was in buckets which could not be mixed or aggregated.


this is factored into the government's unemployment assumptions as one has to expect that a large number of those workers will be absorbed back into the labor force.
05:42pm 18/12/14 Permalink
justrev
Melbourne, Victoria
514 posts
did you only read half my post infi?

btw I do actually know this stuff
06:21pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16640 posts

#illridewithyou - another meaningless effort-free gimmick that requires zero follow through.


Meaningless? You really believe it has no meaning, that it didn't make anyone feel a bit better just for reading it? Do you honestly believe that? Because if you do, you are wrong.

You are a bitter old man infi.


No it does not include lost income from tax or additional unemployment benefits (or lost gst thru lost spending power)
They have a system where they say "that's a different bucket" as if money was in buckets which could not be mixed or aggregated.



this is factored into the government's unemployment assumptions as one has to expect that a large number of those workers will be absorbed back into the labor force.


Ahh, so what you are saying is that no, they haven't reflected that in the savings figure, so I'm right in saying that the real savings is MUCH less than what they said. Thanks for backing it up.
06:50pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16641 posts
Here infi, lets try and reduce your ignorance just a little. This is from a post on Facebook, just in the last 5 mins, perfect timing I say.

TL;DR, the #illridewithyou campaign has directly helped this person feel better, and many others I'll wager.


From one of my FB friends

"I generally keep my mouth shut about all the goings on with so called terrorist attacks and Muslim extremists, but having read this, I have stuff to say  

I am multigenerational Australian - British decent with a great-grandmother who is Aboriginal. So, pretty damned Australian. But, I converted to Islam and, since I wear a head scarf, people think I am an immigrant. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told to "go back to my own country", because, you know, Islam is a place. I get it, people are ignorant. On the odd occasion where I've been in a situation to be able to respond, it's amazing how quickly they loose all puff when I say my great grandma was Aboriginal and ask exactly where would they like me to go. But I digress.

Every. Single. Time. there is a "terrorist attack" by a "Muslim extremist" anywhere in the West my life changes for a few days, sometimes weeks. It can be as subtle as under the breath comments, just the way people act around me, or stare, or it can be more. It's enough to make me feel uncomfortable and, at times, unsafe. When an attack happened close to home, the reactions kept me from going out.

I left the house with dread on Tuesday morning, knowing that the senseless loss of two innocent lives would shape how people would behave towards me. And it did, but not in the way I expected. People went out of their way to be kind, to talk to me, to make eye contact, to help even when I didn't really need it. This time, this time it made me proud to be an Australian.

It is with awe and wonderment that I see a country reacting to an attack with love and kindness. No retaliation attacks. What better weapon do we have?"


06:55pm 18/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22138 posts
#isupportallgoodthings

that should just about cover it.
07:14pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16642 posts
Yup, so you ignorant in thinking that helping others feel better is not a good thing lol, you fail again. You sir, are getting owned over and over and you still carry on. I suppose there is something in that after all.
07:16pm 18/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22139 posts
I am not ignorant, I treat Muslims with respect and am cool with them. I just don't make a big SONG AND DANCE about it like I'm some sort of big deal on the internet getting my tweets republished in the newspaper. Keep up the great tweeting work.

YOU are so ignorant that you feel the need to perpetuate the all Australian are dumb drunk and racist stereotype. Get over your self-loathing. Live and let live.
07:19pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16643 posts
You believe it doesn't help anyone when, as I showed you, it does. You are choosing to ignore the facts in favour of your own delusion.

So yes you are right. You're not ignorant you're simply moronic. Thanks for clearing that up.


YOU are so ignorant that you feel the need to perpetuate the all Australian are dumb drunk and racist stereotype.


Because in the past negative racial and ideological responses haven't directly followed events such as this, have you forgotten the Cronulla riots already?
Do you just ignore websites/social forums that promoted retaliation? Do you just ignore that people yell out and do say things to people based on what they are wearing and what they believe?

This is simply a statement of support and you want to find problems with it, how lame. Again, you fail. Keep trying though.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 19:32:59 18/Dec/14
07:25pm 18/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24744 posts
Mate, infi lives in the real world. Hashtags are good only if you're some sort of ivory tower latte sipping intelligentsia. I treat muslims with respect too. Remember that time I called them savages? And remember the time I condoned the indefinite imprisonment, torture and refoulement of them for uhhh reasons? That's respect mate. Respect from the real world.

infi is a dyed in the wool dumb, racist patient zero lolbertarian. Nothing he says is worth even considering except to make a mental note of it so you know in the future you're dealing with a complete moron. Someone so stupid that he was given every opportunity to succeed in life by his precious daddy yet still f***ed it up. That's why Russell Egan Sr. has him hidden away in a little office pushing papers around so he can get paid his allowance without becoming too much of an embarrassment. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the staff and lower management talk about him openly. People laugh at you everyday infi.
08:13pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2915 posts
It's almost as if the government has a negligible impact on the overall Australian economy. Crazy.
08:17pm 18/12/14 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
5374 posts
You believe it doesn't help anyone when, as I showed you, it does.

is this a verifiable FB post? Because FB is renowned for this sort of thing.
09:50pm 18/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2047 posts
infi is a dyed in the wool dumb, racist patient zero lolbertarian.


I can't believe I'm doing this.

No he isn't he stated in the last thread that he's more aligned with the LDP. You know the guy who says we should have more guns like in the US.
11:23pm 18/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7349 posts
No he isn't he stated in the last thread that he's more aligned with the LDP.
LDP = lolbertarian.
11:57pm 18/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8971 posts
With people like infi you can tell who has always lived in a bubble of privilege and doesn't have any idea what public transport can be like at times. Hell, there's enough videos capturing it from recent months that they really have no excuse for this fantasy la la land where Muslims should feel completely safe on public transport after the previous event. But then, denialism of hard facts and prioritizing fantasy realities is increasingly the conservative way, and the reason that more and more people are turning off them.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=australia+bus+racist&tbm=vid

12:08am 19/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16644 posts

is this a verifiable FB post? Because FB is renowned for this sort of thing.


Yah, my partner knows the person who wrote it.
12:17am 19/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4142 posts
Thats exactly why the libs do what they do. They have no concept beyond their bigotry views of the poor as lazy, welfare abusing trash. They only hold back these views otherwise they'd be gone politically. Sometimes they break their facade as we see from the tweets of some backbencher MPs. And the islamic clothing ban in parliment. They're all scum.
Look at the electorates that the frontbenchers reside in, and its so clear why they are not suitable for government.

You want government that is well adjusted to the needs of the lowest & middle class. Labor's electorates reflect that. The rich already know how to exploit the poor, they dont need any help with that, via labor theft (not receiving the full benefit of your labor) monopolies, and so on. The guise of free market & competition we see in the form of planned obsolescence and private ownership of public assets harms society as a whole.
11:11am 19/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1554 posts

At least the libs are good at tightening the belt and not spending wastefully.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/19/east-west-link-labor-demands-investigation-funding


11:48am 19/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1121 posts
Lets hope there is an inquiry into the $2B myki ticketing system and the $17B desal plant that doesn't produce any water as well.
01:26pm 19/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11435 posts
01:39pm 19/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4145 posts

$17B desal plant that doesn't produce any water as well.


Well thats easy, that was built during a period of severe drought and Sydney's dams were running dangerously low. Of course, we get smashed with rain suddenly and the dams reached 100%. Desal was shut down until it's required again.


What a disgusting stunt, from a University Lecturer ?
sack her.


You're joking surely. Targeting that campaign as a negative really brings out the s*** of the world.
01:53pm 19/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1555 posts
Why are people hating on the I'll ride with you thing? It is about making a minority feel safe and inclusive and deriding a small section of Australia that exists.

Are you a part of the small amount of people who like to abuse people on public transport?
04:29pm 19/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1122 posts
its not that iv been dishonest, its just that i loathe reality.
09:48pm 19/12/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
761 posts
Im not trying to create ripples here but is the burkah really necessary?

Some go full blown black ninja style, some go tight white head scarf under the chin, some go loose orange head wear, and unless the internet is lying some even go loosey goosey tits out monster c*** gag fest...burkah.


As always I already regret clicking "post message"
10:24pm 19/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16646 posts

Im not trying to create ripples here but is the burkah really necessary?


If it is worn by choice it is fine, if people are forced to wear it then it sucks.
10:59pm 19/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11436 posts
Its Oppression of Women.
The Men wear modern clothing the Women have to dress like its 999 AD
11:51pm 19/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8975 posts
While the dresscode sucks balls and should be wiped from the face of the earth, using the mad dude taking hostages as a trigger for getting women to not wear their religious/cultural outfits is just painful for everybody involved. Convince them of why it's wrong, going by scare tactics over loose association is weak.

You wouldn't want somebody to stop being an anti-vaxxer only because one anti-vaxxer turned out to be a famous publicized nazi and they're scared of being mistaken for one too, you'd want them to stop because they understand what's actually wrong with anti-vaxxer positions, and to know that they won't come back to it.
12:24am 20/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16647 posts
If women choose to wear of their own free will, is that a problem?
01:00am 20/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7013 posts
Even if they are wearing it out of choice it is still a form of oppression.

The burka and ninjab had a purpose for women living in the desert during medieval times. It seems odd and out of place in modern civilised society.

01:23am 20/12/14 Permalink
The Nerfatar
Brisbane, Queensland
8976 posts
If women choose to wear of their own free will, is that a problem?

I've chosen to do religious things of my own free will which were massively stupid because I'd been misled/indoctrinated. Criticizing isn't a bad thing, it's just these xenophobic divisive f*****s are looking for an excuse to worm it into the conversation as a mock noble cause to oppose the people suggesting unity and peace after the hostage guy, who was a Muslim, but not representative of the other Muslims in those actions (or representative of what their statistically probable issues because of Islam are).
01:45am 20/12/14 Permalink
justrev
Melbourne, Victoria
516 posts
If we ban the clothing the men may ban the women from going outside.
I'm not sure tho cos I have seen plenty of women going around unaccompanied, which may be frowned on too in other countries.
I guess it depends on how much you want her to do the shopping and how much you hate going with her.

Over time migrants tend to wear more weather appropriate clothing
12:12pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1556 posts

Over time migrants tend to wear more weather appropriate clothing


I wish we would, still have to wear a long pants and long sleeves to work.

I reckon business shorts should be kosher in summer.
04:24pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4147 posts
It's true that islamic traditional clothing is born from an oppressed era. Women will say it's of their own choice simply because it's indoctrinated into them at youth. They don't feel oppressed because of the culture/religion.
If the culture progressed beyond oppression they would not want to wear that s***.

I suppose that's why you see plenty of Muslim women who don't wear traditional clothing.
04:41pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16648 posts
I can see the Hijab and Dupatta types being just a fashion accessory that people can choose to wear for flair, in fact it can look quite nice.

The Burka and Niqab types though, those things just scream oppression.




last edited by Tollaz0r! at 16:46:30 20/Dec/14
04:44pm 20/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1670 posts
Im not trying to create ripples here but is the burkah really necessary?

Some go full blown black ninja style, some go tight white head scarf under the chin, some go loose orange head wear, and unless the internet is lying some even go loosey goosey tits out monster c*** gag fest...burkah.


As always I already regret clicking "post message"



From what I've understood of it, it's an Arabic cultural tradition, much like terrorism.

I watched a vid a few months ago about an Islamic scholar of some kind who was saying that the head coverings aren't in their holy book, nor are they required anywhere else.

I think the women "choosing" to wear these are either super conservative Arabs or they are being told it's a symbol for Islam when it's not mentioned in the quran.

So basically, it's not religious dress, it's cultural. But then again, speaking out against Islam isn't racist, yet I've been called that tons of times.
05:37pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4148 posts
Yeah many people label anti islam as being racist, which is simply untrue, there are untold millions of Muslims worldwide of different races and cultures.
I accept their beliefs and whatnot, unless it affects me in a negative way, which terrorism has the chance of affecting me.
The portion of islamic extremists among the muslim population is concerning, and growing.
07:11pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14118 posts
Lets hope there is an inquiry into the $2B myki ticketing system


What's wrong with the Myki system? I used it in Melbourne and absolutely annihilated our Translink system in Queensland. Hell, the fact they had a live tracking app that was actually accurate and buses that didn't disappear were a definite plus.
08:26pm 20/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1123 posts

#illLieWithYou

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5D3JDFCAAAh6Ke.jpg:large

What's wrong with the Myki system? I used it in Melbourne and absolutely annihilated our Translink system in Queensland. Hell, the fact they had a live tracking app that was actually accurate and buses that didn't disappear were a definite plus.


- $1.2B over budget.
- Can't buy one on trams
- Can't top up on trams
- Can't buy on on buses
- Can't top up on buses
- No idea how much you are being charged when you tap on.
- Fare pricing is confusing
- Machines are often breaking down and don't detect tap ons all the time.
- Visitors can't buy a disposable one


10:56pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16651 posts
Yup, you still trying to bash what is a good thing. You love to parrot people hay Brool, keep trying though.
11:31pm 20/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22142 posts
lol i just read fpot's explosion from several pages back. he was really mad! i totally respect muslims (except enemy combatants of course including non-muslim enemy combatants like David Hicks). their money is the same colour as every other Aussie's; they have feelings and families they like like every other Aussie. i employ muslims, i have muslim customers. with current immigration policies i expect that one day we will have as many muslims as england. they are generally very polite people (and excellent squash players).

the religion of islam needs to keep a lid on its extremist groups. it is a shame that sharia law actually governs several countries, especially in the growing ISIS region. the religion does not respect women and it needs to modernise in that respect, just like christian religions did during the 20th century.

it is strange that unlike christianity, islam followers seem to embrace a lot of the religion's retarded beliefs about human rights especially regarding women, and are not pushing the top brass to modernise

I am ok that I don't carry some sort of Aussie dumb drunk and racist chip on my shoulder. it is sad that in this day and age people think they are changing the world with a simple tweet.
- where is the hashtag mania for the 8 children killed in cairns. should this be four times as serious as Martin place?
- where is the hashtag mania for the farming family of five in NSW killed by their father?

those tragedies are not attractive to superficial activists like fpot. thanks for dropping by though! #illridewithyou is another easy throwaway twitter trend that will die in a month like all the other ones before it. fpot could only dream that he may start an #ArabSpring.

fpot is so mad because he has achieved nothing with his life (excepting a few forum zingers!)
11:38pm 20/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4150 posts
#illridewithyou is very important because of the history of violence against muslims after an isolated event, such as the cronulla riots.
Idiots who can't think, that label all muslims as terrorists. the #illridewithyou thing was fantastic at raising awareness of that.

It's a tragedy that kids have died in cairns, but hash tagging that isn't necessary as there isn't an immediate social problem that could uprise from that event, unless a muslim murdered them.
11:48pm 20/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22144 posts
so is the hashtag #illridewithyou meant to

a) encourage muslims to feel safe and ride on public transport? if so, then it has not changed the likelihood of a would be attacker actually making an attack. by inducing a muslim to ride on public transport which a promise of safety you would actually be partly responsible if a racist attack occurred against that muslim passenger.

b) educate would be racist attackers? do you honestly think racists attackers use twitter or would be influenced by the hashtag mania?

c) an actual real offer of riding personally with a muslim thereby inserting yourself in harms way of a would be racist attacker, and perhaps dispensing a little vigilante justice? thats not very civil

d) raising awareness... whatever that means.
11:54pm 20/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24745 posts
The thing with extreme lolbertarians is that they're always

a) dumb
b) racist
c) so obviously coddled their whole life by their mummy, daddy or whatever.

Whenever the absurdity of their drivel is pointed out, they'll always respond with some sort of I live in the real world type bulls***. Which is hilarious, because if they were anymore detached from the real world they'd be on Mars.
01:25am 21/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22145 posts
fpot avoids the discussion with personal attacks yet again. what else is new....
01:50am 21/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24746 posts
The s*** you prattle on about is pointless and dumb. Whenever anybody says something that refutes it you just ignore it . This is a behavioural pattern that has been going on for years. Discussing anything with you is a waste of time because you're incapable of taking on any new information. All you can think and say is what you've been told to think and say.
03:15am 21/12/14 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
379 posts
Saying that women are oppressed for being forced to wear stuff is both true and ridiculous the picture below is an Australian beach the women dressed this way because it was incorrect behavior for a women to go to the beach with any "skin" exposed.

Today of course if you put such a restriction on "Australian women" they would run around the beach naked and show the authorities the color of their backsides.


http://blogs.slq.qld.gov.au/jol/files/2010/12/70_157622-small.jpg
05:37am 21/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7016 posts
^ not exactly the same.
08:46am 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4151 posts
Probably wasting my time replying to it but anyway

a) encourage muslims to feel safe and ride on public transport? if so, then it has not changed the likelihood of a would be attacker actually making an attack. by inducing a muslim to ride on public transport which a promise of safety you would actually be partly responsible if a racist attack occurred against that muslim passenger.


Never read anything more retarded. By showing support for everyday Australia muslims, which have been targeted in the past by anti islamic bogans, we would be held responsible if their attacked? Your logic dumbfounds me.
People will target the weak, and the #illridewithyou thing brings the community together, discouraging would be islamophobes from attacking peaceful muslims.

b) educate would be racist attackers? do you honestly think racists attackers use twitter or would be influenced by the hashtag mania?


Yup, there's a huge following of racist idiots on twitter, upon seeing this campaign they will be less likely to attack a muslim on public transport, or in a public place.

c) an actual real offer of riding personally with a muslim thereby inserting yourself in harms way of a would be racist attacker, and perhaps dispensing a little vigilante justice? thats not very civil


I think fpot might be right about you haha.

d) raising awareness... whatever that means.


Lobbying, you know, spreading word about something either politically or socially. it's effective.
10:24am 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4152 posts

Saying that women are oppressed for being forced to wear stuff is both true and ridiculous the picture below is an Australian beach the women dressed this way because it was incorrect behavior for a women to go to the beach with any "skin" exposed.


It's true it's similar in that female children in that age would be forced to be dressed like a lady to seem proper, even when they didn't want to.
The difference is, Western culture progresses beyond that, while Islam wear is stuck because of adherence to religion.
10:27am 21/12/14 Permalink
justrev
Melbourne, Victoria
517 posts
I was going to say you can add credit to your Myki on the bus, but the thread has moved on and I shouldn't get hung up about correcting stuff on the internet.
11:12am 21/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
332 posts
The thing with extreme lolbertarians is that they're always

a) dumb
b) racist
c) so obviously coddled their whole life by their mummy, daddy or whatever.

Whenever the absurdity of their drivel is pointed out, they'll always respond with some sort of I live in the real world type bulls***. Which is hilarious, because if they were anymore detached from the real world they'd be on Mars.


says the washed up security guard with no education.
11:55am 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4155 posts


says the washed up security guard with no education.


Except that profession is no indication of intelligence or knowledge.
12:03pm 21/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22146 posts
People will target the weak, and the #illridewithyou thing brings the community together, discouraging would be islamophobes from attacking peaceful muslims.


not by actually doing anything material but simply by posting a tweet, would be racist attackers will be deterred. is this being serious?

Yup, there's a huge following of racist idiots on twitter, upon seeing this campaign they will be less likely to attack a muslim on public transport, or in a public place.


what makes you think this is the case? people go on twitter to spout their own drivel, not to be converted and see the light. twitter is the equivalent of talking to yourself in a nightclub.

c) an actual real offer of riding personally with a muslim thereby inserting yourself in harms way of a would be racist attacker, and perhaps dispensing a little vigilante justice? thats not very civil


I think fpot might be right about you haha.


this campaign is particularly worthless due to c). It's like someone saying "I 'd really like to have a beer with you." but then never doing it. it's just hot air. the original person who actually RODE with a muslim, good for them. everyone else, congratulations you made a tweet.
12:51pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16654 posts

not by actually doing anything material but simply by posting a tweet, would be racist attackers will be deterred. is this being serious?


Except people are offering, but whatever. Anything you do is a token effort, so I understand that you believe everyone else is the same.
I know of at least 3 people that actually did it, and that is just from my small circle of friends. So yeah, you fail again. Keep trying though.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 12:56:29 21/Dec/14
12:55pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4156 posts
It's like someone saying "I 'd really like to have a beer with you." but then never doing it. it's just hot air. the original person who actually RODE with a muslim, good for them. everyone else, congratulations you made a tweet.


Except that raising awareness is just like raising awareness politically. People will see that majority of Muslims in this country are just ordinary Australians. The people who are "swingable" and not concrete on their views. And that's exactly how we should be, open to the views of others.
Many people change their views based on what they see.

So, we see an incident involving a siege by a Muslim supporting IS. Immediate reaction emotionally, is to target the Muslim population negatively. #illridewithyou is excellent to fight that, because it pushes the view in the other direction.
You're being too literal. Ideas can flow freely, attitudes can change, and twitter can make a big difference with that, considering the awareness of the campaign has spread from twitter to various media outlets.

I love social media for this reason, one person can tweet something and it spreads like wildfire.
01:05pm 21/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1124 posts


says the washed up security guard with no education.


I like to think of him more as a Paul Blart Mall Cop type who makes up for it by trying to act thoughtful and intelligent, attempting psycho analysis of people on an internet forum and responding with "you're dumb!" "that's racist" every time one of his points is demolished by infi.
01:15pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16655 posts

I love social media for this reason, one person can tweet something and it spreads like wildfire.


It doesn't even have to be factual at first!
02:11pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7353 posts
...every time one of his points is demolished by infi.
so never?
02:55pm 21/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22147 posts
attempting psycho analysis of people on an internet forum and responding with "you're dumb!" "that's racist"


could fpot actually be joe hildebrand?

also

Cabinet Reshuffle
04:52pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4157 posts
surprised they didnt ditch hockey. bloke is still hung up on cutting when he needs to be increasing revenue and taxes on the rich.
05:17pm 21/12/14 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1671 posts
Yeah many people label anti islam as being racist, which is simply untrue, there are untold millions of Muslims worldwide of different races and cultures.
I accept their beliefs and whatnot, unless it affects me in a negative way, which terrorism has the chance of affecting me.
The portion of islamic extremists among the muslim population is concerning, and growing.



That's the one thing that seriously annoys me... (besides the racism card being thrown out too easily)

"Oh, it's only a small percentage of them... So we don't need to worry."

Sure, but the Nazi's were a small percentage of the Germans and look what they managed.

Now realize that there are more Muslim extremists our there than there were legit nazi's.
05:33pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4158 posts
Except Muslim extremists do not have a state... yet. The Nazis obtained power democratically and abused that power. That simply won't happen for islamic extremists.
IS is trying for that, and that's why we're over there trying to stop that.

Also, IS do not have the power, even if they take over a country, they don't have the method of committing genocide of untold amounts.

Considering the number of Muslims in Sydney, I'm surprised an event like the siege didn't happen sooner. This tells me there really are not many extremists in Sydney, and if they are, they tend to not do much about it, thankfully.
05:39pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4159 posts


Australian fossil fuel subsidies put at $47bn over 4 years, as RET wrestle continues
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-put-at-47bn-as-ret-wrestle-continues-58572

Absolutely criminal that nothing has been cut from this. F*** you LNP.
06:07pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38716 posts
oh god, scott morrison, the biggest c*** in the party, moved to social services :(
06:50pm 21/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11440 posts
06:54pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16656 posts
Liberals are all about redistributing wealth. Upwards.
07:18pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13585 posts
chris berg, on that topic, from 4 years ago no less
do you have a signed copy of "Defence of Freedom of Speech: from Ancient Greece to Andrew Bolt" faceman?

and then david***e.com in your sig to round off

headdesk x 1000
07:57pm 21/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24747 posts
Known torture apologist places sociopath in charge of social services. Just another day in the LNP.
08:17pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
203 posts
freewill is a modern western concept and a pre-requisite for a belief in economic mobility needed in modern times. It also happens to contradict physics - another modern realisation - and so must have spirituality at its core.

Claiming that a culture has 'progressed' means that there has been some sort of improvement and movement towards an ideal. But measured by what? It can't be scientific or evolutionary because these things take no account of what is considered "good" or "evil" (or just "bad" or "not as good as good").

Presumably it's not a claim of "God's Will" so it must simply be a claim that life is better than it was... and it's better because we are free.. We are free from any religious or cultural oppression and anyone who doesn't exercise their self-evident freewill should be stigmatised and labelled 'oppressed'.

And I know that one day, one fine day we shall achieve this ideal we are progressing towards. And as we enter it, walking proud and free, with social Darwinism in one hand and my c*** in the other, wearing cheap shoes made by some 8 year old in Indonesia on his 20th work hour for the day (if only he knew he was free! bloody backwards muslim), we'll stand before God just to tell him he doesn't exist.

But seriously, attempting to deride the '#ridewithyou' thing is so stupid and really just takes attention away from genuine and appropriate criticisms of islam, which is something we really need to focus on. And I love the the tweets at the bottom of 'The Australian' piece: it goes from "she “editorialised’’ parts of her story", to "she made up almost the whole story", to "ade the whole story up", and finally "Story that triggered #illridewithyou was a lie". Deliberate bulls*** from a bulls*** artist.
08:57pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4160 posts

Hey Che Green-vara
Have a read of this
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-02-02/fossilfuels2csubsidiesandasustainablefuture/43376


He's forgetting tax breaks, which are massive. Why not cut the tax breaks? Oh thats right, we don't want to upset our rich friends.

Diesel fuel rebates, which give mining companies a massive
tax refund on their fossil fuel bills
- $8 billion over four years;

Accelerated depreciation on exploration, which rewards
mining companies for oil drilling, coal exploration and more
- $4 billion over four years; and

Accelerated depreciation on assets
- $1.85 billion over four years.

Look at those savings we could get. Funny how it works doesn't it. Everyone needs to take the burden of the "budget emergency" (which there is none, if you compare it to the rest of the world) So why not big corporations?
09:16pm 21/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22148 posts
freewill is a modern western concept and a pre-requisite for a belief in economic mobility needed in modern times.


what a ridiculous presupposition. you say it like there have been governments and sovereigns since the dawn of civilisation. goverrnment and sovereignty is a construct permitted by mankind but not dependent on it. before government and civilisations there were towns and tribes who existed on a basis of mutual agreement and mutual benefit through cooperation. the concept of a government with a legitimate right to use force is a very new concept historically.

we are all free, and always will be to the extent that we are willing to allow others to dominate us. so feel free to tweet away.
09:16pm 21/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16657 posts

the concept of a government with a legitimate right to use force is a very new concept historically.


Bulls***, it just didn't have a name. The alpha male who wields power over the tribe very likely has a legitimate right to use force, so local government at the least.
12:23am 22/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
249 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
12:42am 22/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
846 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
12:44am 22/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
334 posts
Quite rude and clearly defamatory personal attacks :

On one occasion:

infi is a dyed in the wool dumb, racist patient zero lolbertarian. Nothing he says is worth even considering except to make a mental note of it so you know in the future you're dealing with a complete moron. Someone so stupid that he was given every opportunity to succeed in life by his precious daddy yet still f***ed it up. That's why Russell Egan Sr. has him hidden away in a little office pushing papers around so he can get paid his allowance without becoming too much of an embarrassment. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the staff and lower management talk about him openly. People laugh at you everyday infi.


And a second occasion:

The s*** you prattle on about is pointless and dumb. Whenever anybody says something that refutes it you just ignore it . This is a behavioural pattern that has been going on for years. Discussing anything with you is a waste of time because you're incapable of taking on any new information. All you can think and say is what you've been told to think and say.


Not only are his attacks defamatory, they cross the line into referencing personal circumstances of infi, yet the remain in the thread. It seems like the moderators are pushing a left wing agenda. They're happy to allow and condone defamation, making them secondary tortfeasors, as long as the victim is on the right.

I've got a screen cap of the above posts if you'd like to file suit, infi.

I think there's a responsibility in a political debate to not favour one side - fair go.
12:57pm 22/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1126 posts

Luckily we have Labor Leaders who are willing to sign endorsements of islamic terrorists, especially when it comes to disputes with their wifes that they are accused of help killing.

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/alp-leader-john-robertson-signed-man-monis-letter-20141222-12bzzs.html




Not only are his attacks defamatory, they cross the line into referencing personal circumstances of infi, yet the remain in the thread. It seems like the moderators are pushing a left wing agenda. They're happy to allow and condone defamation, making them secondary tortfeasors, as long as the victim is on the right.

I've got a screen cap of the above posts if you'd like to file suit, infi.

I think there's a responsibility in a political debate to not favour one side - fair go.



This always happens. The mods love Fpot and nuke everyone else. All he posts is abuse and insults.
01:05pm 22/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22151 posts
LOL tdog thank you for your concern.i am not particularly concerned about slurs from an anonymous has-never-been.
01:09pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4161 posts
So TDog, you're saying blatantly ignoring facts, and trolling this forum is a right wing agenda? Gotcha.
Fpot while i don't condone his methods, it's true of Infi and co that they spout sensationalism like their counterparts in the daily telegraph. He's calling them out for that, and that's the reason his posts aren't nuked, i'd say.
01:10pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4162 posts

Luckily we have Labor Leaders who are willing to sign endorsements of islamic terrorists, especially when it comes to disputes with their wifes that they are accused of help killing.


Sensationalism example.
01:15pm 22/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24748 posts
infi has two little cheerleaders. How cute.
02:27pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16662 posts
Love how repealing the Carbon Tax is one of Tonez finest achievements for Women. What a MAN!

What's next, a free Ironing Board for all Women and maybe a makeup kit?

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 14:34:39 22/Dec/14
02:33pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4163 posts
BREAKING NEWS: In a parting gift three days before Christmas, the Abbott Coalition has defunded Homelessness Australia, National Shelter, Community Housing Federation Australia, and Financial Counselling Australia. Let new Minister Scott Morrison know what you think.


Wow... Yup, just what we expected from Morrison. Heartless sociopath.
05:16pm 22/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11441 posts
hey Hjim keep reminding people that Labor will re-introduce a power bill tax next Election, its a real vote winner.

06:15pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4164 posts
Except it isnt a power bill tax. Get informed already, faceman. Where's our $550 a yr savings tones?
07:05pm 22/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2050 posts
hey Hjim keep reminding people that Labor will re-introduce a power bill tax next Election, its a real vote winner.



Hey Face, remind me how much you saved from the repeal? I know my eldest saved a grand total of $26.

Hey Face, remind me how much I don't pay for any power whatsoever. So the last price increase meant nothing to me, nor did the previous one or the introduction of the carbon price. Remind me how my whole house, including garage and workshop, is at a nice 24C. Remind me about my only chance of losing power is if a 747 crashes into my property, which won't matter to me because I probably would have died in the fire.
07:08pm 22/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22152 posts
I saved way more than $550 but who cares about business. A lot of home electricity retailers just increased their fees on domestic customers.

You have to shop around. Cut more taxes!

HJ thanks for reminding us voters don't give a s*** about your solar.
07:17pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4165 posts
Yep, funny how business were doing better before the repeal. That carbon tax was really hurting business confidence wasnt it?
And wasn't it repealed for the consumer?
Interesting.
07:23pm 22/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11442 posts
Hey Face, remind me how much I don't pay for any power whatsoever.


Those handouts and subsidies and above market rate payments for your "Special Electricity" all comes out of the pockets of people who mostly live down on Struggle Street = Labor voters.

Nobody down on Struggle Street will be voting for more of that rubbish.

The Coalition know its Labors weakness and Electricity Bill Shorten will have that dead Albatross hanging around his neck going into the Election. Global Warming has ruined two Labor PMs and still that moronic Party wont dump it.

Vash whenever the peoples taxes stay in their pocket ready to spend, Business is happy because there is no bigger waste of money than giving it to Government.

08:25pm 22/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22153 posts
solar is for the rich. it is a subsidy to the rich paid for by the poor. and HurricaineJim is part of the racket.
08:28pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1558 posts

Actually its the people running their A/C that are ruining it for the rest of us.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-16/phillips-the-great-australian-air-con/5203068

While it's bliss to sprawl in front of the cold air, there is a serious downside to chilling out. The Productivity Commission last year said that air conditioners are largely responsible for putting the electricity network under strain and that strain costs us dearly (pdf). On hot days, like today, we all turn on the air-con at the same time, creating a situation that the electricity companies call "peak demand".


Classic right wing to jump on solar power in the sunniest country on earth though.


08:44pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38721 posts
ive got balla solar, so i run my aircon 24/7
09:18pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13588 posts
faceman and infi: unlike chaplains, offshore detention and f-35's, paying a tax for power generation (which is a debatable claim in the first place) to assist transitioning to renewable energy is worthwhile if you'd like to keep living on this planet

you're both probably still denying the science though so your position is no surprise
11:05pm 22/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16663 posts
I want more submarines please. 12 is probably a good starting point, could do with a few more. Build them in Japan, only if the Japanese are willing to share secrets and training, otherwise we are boned.

Haha, Face, even with re-introducing the carbon tax, the Labor government will win the next election as it stands now. Tonez makes sure of it almost every single time he says or does something haah

Seriously, Libs need to dump Hockey, Tonez, Pyne and Morison to stand a chance. Bring Julia to the position already, she is gunning for it anyway let her have a go, she can't be worse at it than Tony.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 00:19:56 23/Dec/14
12:18am 23/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4166 posts
Julia was really good actually, considering the hung parliament. It surprises me that they still have tones as leader despite people never really liking him.
Gillard had the public perception of backstabbing Rudd, and still gained government with tones in opposition.

We have big miners & Murdoch to thank for destabilizing the Rudd government. Think how much better this country would be now if they stayed in power.
12:30am 23/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7022 posts
I wish Malcolm would grow some balls and put Wingnut to the sword. I don't want to be forced to vote Labor.

http://s14.postimg.org/uhtfh6a29/thanxtony.jpg
image free hosting


08:50am 23/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38723 posts
the fact that tony thinks getting rid of teh carbon tax was a good thing boggles the mind, the fact that he thinks its something hes done for women, just proves how little clue he actually has.

last edited by Spook at 09:13:14 23/Dec/14
09:11am 23/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16664 posts
Yeah, and what proves how much of an idiot he is, is that he said it to media. I mean really..
09:26am 23/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
11989 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
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09:28am 23/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16665 posts
Did I say Julia? I meant Julie. Give the position to Bishop Toney, it's your only hope.
09:29am 23/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16667 posts
Ever since the carbon tax has been repelled the amount of Women in Top Ministerial roles has increased 100%, good man Tony!
10:57am 23/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2051 posts


Those handouts and subsidies and above market rate payments for your "Special Electricity" all comes out of the pockets of people who mostly live down on Struggle Street = Labor voters.

Nobody down on Struggle Street will be voting for more of that rubbish.

The Coalition know its Labors weakness and Electricity Bill Shorten will have that dead Albatross hanging around his neck going into the Election. Global Warming has ruined two Labor PMs and still that moronic Party wont dump it.

Vash whenever the peoples taxes stay in their pocket ready to spend, Business is happy because there is no bigger waste of money than giving it to Government.



I've never received any handout or subsidy. I chose to disconnect from the power grid completely, the only "wire" entering my property is the interwebs.

solar is for the rich. it is a subsidy to the rich paid for by the poor. and HurricaineJim is part of the racket.


No solar is for people focused on the future. Fossil Fuel style power is for, well, Dinosaurs. It's not my fault you're not capable of seeing the future by reviewing the past. Those who can't learn from history are cursed to relive it. Your problem is you can't see a way to redeem yourself, your dogma drives you over the precipice.
12:05pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14129 posts
03:07pm 23/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24749 posts
Poor people don't live in houses.
03:12pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16669 posts
Homeless don't pay taxes, so why should they get government assistance eh?

F*** em, they don't even vote.
05:11pm 23/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24750 posts
If you take away their homes, it will incentivise them to bootstrap their way to success so they can afford a home to live in. It's basic economics.
05:59pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4168 posts
Haha i love this mockery of lolbertarians and their fail logic.

We can't tax the rich, it'll harm jobs & the economy!&*@
Here we go lets cut jobs from the public service, so it will er... fix the budget.

What's more important, fixing the budget or the economy? You can't have both without taxing the rich more /groan
06:07pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4169 posts

here we go.. Abbott is trying to get poll boosts with terror alerts again. this guy has no shame. Distract from how terrible we are at government !!@#!*

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-warns-terrorist-attack-likely-post-sydney-siege-20141223-12d1gw.html


06:08pm 23/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22157 posts
The government is cutting funding to Homeless lobby groups, who like all Canberra boffins, don't actually deliver any services to individuals.

The bulk of public housing and homeless support is delivered via state funding and the Commonwealth Affordable Housing scheme.
06:16pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16671 posts
As much as Infi is great to poke fun at, he is kind of right here I think. Still, cuts like these make it easy to hang s*** on the government right after they appoint Morrison and are super alert to his evil going ons.
07:04pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4170 posts
Yes they're not cutting funding directly from public housing, the problem is they are cutting from groups that are required to meet the needs of the homeless. you need groups to raise awareness of homelessness and government funding helps that, obviously they were not getting enough in donations.
Such a stupid move by the government to cut from these areas.
07:33pm 23/12/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
251 posts
This post has been removed.
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08:03pm 23/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
8370 posts
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08:14pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38728 posts
i am comfortable voting labor with my 1 (kind) personality.
08:46pm 23/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1559 posts
The government is cutting funding to Homeless lobby groups, who like all Canberra boffins, don't actually deliver any services to individuals.

The bulk of public housing and homeless support is delivered via state funding and the Commonwealth Affordable Housing scheme.


Lobby groups. Really?

Actually they produce reports based on data rather than what some rag newspaper has gotten a comment on. Usually a government will take this report and create some policy from it.

Sometimes the report is a bit confronting so in that case they're right to axe the dept that created it.
03:38pm 24/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2052 posts
Actually they produce reports based on data rather than what some rag newspaper has gotten a comment on. Usually a government will take this report and create some policy from it.

Sometimes the report is a bit confronting so in that case they're right to axe the dept that created it.


Morriscum was so successful not reporting about immigration that he needs the various reports for social services to be stopped so he can safely state there is no homeless, unemployed, pensioners, disabled, or carers. He can arrange an "efficiency dividend" of the Bureau of Statistics then fund the Lowy institute or some right wing think tank because private industry always does it better......
04:38pm 24/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
16887 posts
This post has been removed.
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04:48pm 24/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1127 posts
Good to see the NSW Labor leader resign after supporting the Sydney shooter.
10:52pm 24/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16675 posts

Social Services Minister Scott Morrison says it would be foolish to argue further cuts are not needed to the welfare system to pay for policies like the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS).


That's right Minister Scott Morrison, who also takes a casual swipe at Labor (seriously, when will this government grow up and stop blaming other people?), perhaps start with cutting back on those fuel subsidies for miners... Oh wait, I'm sure there are some poor people you haven't gouged their last pennies from yet.
11:08pm 24/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7026 posts
Tony's terrorist threat levels reminded me of this... sounds like a s*** pub!

09:08am 26/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1128 posts
03:31am 27/12/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13592 posts
the 1950's called
04:57am 27/12/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38750 posts
my language mite hve been strong, but my comment was ultra relevant!
07:07am 27/12/14 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14133 posts

Another Former Labor MP in a long list exposed as a KGB informant. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asio-spy-case-file-on-labor-mp-albert-james-reveals-kgb-meetings-20141226-12dwlq.html



Why exactly is that news? Everyone was corrupt back then, still is now but instead of selling off secrets they are just taking paychecks from the big boys.
10:09am 27/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2054 posts

Another Former Labor MP in a long list exposed as a KGB informant. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asio-spy-case-file-on-labor-mp-albert-james-reveals-kgb-meetings-20141226-12dwlq.html


the 1950's called


Why exactly is that news? Everyone was corrupt back then, still is now but instead of selling off secrets they are just taking paychecks from the big boys.


I think it's more like a drown man clutching at a straw man argument. Free mixed metaphors for everyone....

and then we get stupidity like this;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10631091_772565006165793_5930097143698059837_o.jpg


and this ;

He said local retailers were at a disadvantage because of the current rules for online purchases.


We've already had is discussion with Hardly Norman and established the fact that you wouldn't buy something online if it were only 10% cheaper than here. Josh Friedinbrain forgetting past conversations...
11:17am 27/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22163 posts
Everyone knows the ALP's links to the communist party... This is not news.
11:21am 27/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1129 posts
I know it's not exactly news considering it's well recorded and they had the whole DLP split because of it. It's just interesting to see the actual scope of communism within the party and the trade unions.

Most of the commies have moved to the Greens now anyway.
02:07pm 27/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24757 posts
Are you clutching at straws so badly that you're actually doing the whole communism thing? Usually I'd suspect this to be someone's end game before they finally stop embarrassing themselves and stop posting but there's a lot more space between now and rock bottom for you isn't there you little boy? This must be a hard time of year for you. Watching everyone getting together and having a fun time. Laughing, drinking, socialising. Meanwhile you're still holed up in your dark little windowless room wishing you could be a part of it but knowing you never will be. Your mum's basement must be the saddest room in the whole entire world at the moment :(
02:14pm 27/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2055 posts
Hilarity ensues.

05:55pm 27/12/14 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4892 posts
Brool and infi remind me of those people that get sucked in by those african prince scams. Even though its become clearer and clearer as each day passes that the entire position is based on bulls*** and crumbling they have invested to much into it to just cut their losses and admit they have been taken for a ride.
12:16am 28/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22164 posts
Dude still thinks Labor is not connected to the communists... Lol ^^
12:38am 28/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24759 posts
hurr hurr communists, hur hur hur

Geez you're a dummy.
01:04am 28/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4171 posts
who are these communists? The word is flaunted around at the slight hint of any kind of welfare for people it's hard to know nowadays.
10:19am 28/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16682 posts
A communist is someone who supports a particular political and social ideology. Infi and friends believe it is some kind of insult and rather derogatory if someone supports such an ideology. Again, they are failing, but sill trying.
10:54am 28/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4172 posts
I know what a communist is but the word is flaunted around with incorrect meaning. The Soviet union was not communism.
The right uses the word to stop social programs like universal health, education etc which are the biggest drivers of economic activity. Make education/medical access unaffordable and you make people desperate and broke when they need surgery / looking for a better job.
11:51am 28/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1560 posts

Federal ICAC now. Flush out the bad and give the people some confidence in politics.

http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-labor-votes-for-federal-form-of-icac-20140727-zxbl1.html


01:49pm 28/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16684 posts

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has declined to back a federal ICAC, saying he thought there was a "pretty clean polity" in Canberra.


Lol...
02:47pm 28/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24760 posts
It's just beyond parody at this point. If it wasn't for brool and infi there'd be nothing left to laugh about.
02:55pm 28/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4173 posts
Says it all right there. PM corrupt to the bone.
03:27pm 28/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7028 posts
10:36pm 28/12/14 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
5275 posts
I have no idea about these days, but it was only a few weeks back at a Christmas lunch that my dad was telling me about his days at the NSW teachers college (nice big union there fyi) studying to be a secondary education teacher. He said plenty of his friends helped fund their lifestyle while at college by being paid to attend pro labor / anti liberal government rallies and that the cash coming from the local communist party chapter.

So while I know Infi can be plenty a troll or extremely one eyed in his political views (hardly the only one in this thread) I think there was some credence to the Labor/Communist party ties.. at least in the early 70s.
11:59pm 28/12/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
769 posts
Whats wrong with communism?

Sounds like community ism.

Did people die n s***?
04:09am 29/12/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13593 posts
for whatever it's worth... that's pretty anecdotal fade =]
04:13am 29/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7029 posts
Albo > Bill who?
11:10am 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22165 posts

Because Albo is spot on

https://scontent-a-nrt.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10269559_713160852114303_1832439856475288296_n.jpg?oh=5e06c29d34b9a2352eb25b9f281a90cf&oe=54FFF42E



like making certain taxpayers pay for medicare levy even if they have private health insurance?
like making certain taxpayers pay a higher medicare levy?

how is privilege entrenched through education reforms? students still get to go to university on 50% taxpayer subsidy and get taxpayer loan-supported university degrees that will lead them to earn millions of dollars over their lifetime.

climate science is being derided because one climate poiicy is being swapped with a different one BOTH aimed at reducing emissions? albo is wrong AGAIN.

where does any head of state get off issuing veiled crticism to one of their closest allies especially when the US's record on climate change policy is total s***.

Albo's speech is a crock of s***.
11:50am 29/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7030 posts
^ but at least he stands for something even though he is delusional.
11:58am 29/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
851 posts
This post has been removed.
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12:17pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16687 posts
What's exactly wrong with being a communist? Please tell me Brool?
How is it different from being a Minarchist Libertarian or a Moderate Libertarian? A centrist? Anarchist? Nationalist?

Why are you stuck in the past? Being a communist was a derogatory term, it was used by the governments of the day to instill fear and a scapegoat for taking certain actions and attempting to control the population. You are still going with that narrative, it just shows that you are easily controlled by a government.
Is that what you want Brool, to be controlled by a government? As it stands, you have been thoroughly suckered in. Until you start changing your language, and thus the way you think (also the reverse) you will remain that way.
12:36pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4174 posts



like making certain taxpayers pay for medicare levy even if they have private health insurance?
like making certain taxpayers pay a higher medicare levy?


And the problem with that... is? Higher the income, higher the taxation.


how is privilege entrenched through education reforms? students still get to go to university on 50% taxpayer subsidy and get taxpayer loan-supported university degrees that will lead them to earn millions of dollars over their lifetime.


By making education more unaffordable, it is less accessible to the lower class. And an education does not guarantee a job, especially with the cuts and fear instilled into the community, further hurting the economy & increasing unemployment.

climate science is being derided because one climate poiicy is being swapped with a different one BOTH aimed at reducing emissions? albo is wrong AGAIN.


Except the Coalition climate policy is a fail. The carbon tax was working, and creating revenue for the government with minimal impact to business.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/24/australia-records-biggest-emissions-drop-in-a-decade-as-carbon-tax-kicks-in

Then they cut the mining tax which was also making money. seems this gov is intent on making the budget worse, and hurting the economy at the same time. It's a shame propaganda has gripped Infi & brool that the Coalition are better at running an economy. Keep eating what Jones/Bolt/Murdoch tell you.
12:51pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22166 posts
And the problem with that... is? Higher the income, higher the taxation.


so for salary earners who choose not to take out private health insurance, it is not appropriate to ask them to pay a small fee for a GP. but it's ok to ask people who cover their own medical costs to pay a medicare levy? one class is treated different to the other EVEN if they earn the exact same salary!

By making education more unaffordable, it is less accessible to the lower class.


none of the costs are repayable until after you have a job, so how is it unaffordable? you don't even need a uni degree to comprehend that...

Except the Coalition climate policy is a fail. The carbon tax was working, and creating revenue for the government with minimal impact to business.


that's your opinion... the original statement was that climate science is derided by trhe government which is not true as they have a carbon emission reducing policy.
12:57pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16688 posts

none of the costs are repayable until after you have a job, so how is it unaffordable?


He said 'more' unaffordable, your statement says unaffordable. You should be asking how is it less affordable? The answer to that is clear, a higher loan means higher/longer loan repayments, which is less affordable.
01:55pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16689 posts
I think the current tax rates are OK, they could even be pushed a bit lower. Provided that tax 'loop holes' and tax haven activities are tightened down as these are highly disproportionate, effectively having lower earning people pay a higher percentage of tax.

The problem with this budget was that it was toted as fixing the budget, with everyone working equally to do the 'heavy lifting'. Which cool and all, except it is pretty clear that the lower end of the earning market was carrying a much higher burden. So it is pretty easy to see why Tony Abbots approval rating is so low.

I'm pretty sure most Australians would be happy to take steps to reduce the budget, provided that the higher end of town is seen to be taking a fair share of the burden too. Until this Liberal government takes strong steps to do that, they wont see much of an increase in approval ratings.
After all the Libs didn't want to do carbon taxes because no-one else was doing it, so why should they expect the poor to do the heavy lifting when no-one else is doing it?
02:06pm 29/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
8377 posts
This post has been removed.
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05:01pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22167 posts
just because you cannot understand the post doesn't justify you posting nonsensical statements.
05:17pm 29/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11449 posts
Whats wrong with Communism ?
Well, a lot of people have tried to make it work and none have succeeded.
Dont be deceived by Chinas experiment, the vast majority of China is still Communism and its political structure remains Communism and will not change.

Communism is seductive because it appeals to Intellectuals as a Social
Construct, they believe they can build a better World if they designed Society and also to the Working Class, in that instead of the Markets and Innovation rewarding those who are willing to attractively price what the people want, Communism takes over all of that process and rewards the people with what the Government decides they need rather than what the people may aspire to.

The larger that Government grows, the more control it exerts, it begins to resemble Communism.

http://www.quotessays.com/images/socialism-quotes-4.jpg


05:33pm 29/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2057 posts
like making certain taxpayers pay for medicare levy even if they have private health insurance?
like making certain taxpayers pay a higher medicare levy?


Because everyone above a certain level should pay the medicare levy, the exemption for those with private healthcare is Howard era middle class welfare. This GP tax doesn't go into Medicare at all, it's there to pay those who do Medical R&D many of whom donate to the LNP. If medicare is in such dire straights then why doesn't the GP tax go straight into Medicare?

The fact that Medicare will always be funded seems to have eluded you.

Then again infi you think that the Federal Government should be run like a business.

a. Tell me which business is a monetary sovereign?

No buisness can be they can't issue their own money

b. What period in our history was household debt the greatest?

1996-2007 Howard Government

c. What period was government debt the greatest?

1950s Menzies Government

how is privilege entrenched through education reforms? students still get to go to university on 50% taxpayer subsidy and get taxpayer loan-supported university degrees that will lead them to earn millions of dollars over their lifetime.


How many people do you know of who will earn millions of dollars over their lifetime? Brool won't you might. You should never start a working life with a massive debt. So for those who can't afford that millstone then university education is out. Therefore, the LNP reforms benefit the already wealthy.

climate science is being derided because one climate poiicy is being swapped with a different one BOTH aimed at reducing emissions? albo is wrong AGAIN.


The carbon price reduced emissions 1.4% in it's last 12 months to 1 July (quietly announced by Hunt on 23 Dec). The current policy has increased emissions 4%.

where does any head of state get off issuing veiled crticism to one of their closest allies especially when the US's record on climate change policy is total s***.

Albo's speech is a crock of s***.


The only crock of s*** is you infi, because you know nothing of economics, science or anything that matters for the future. It's all about you now rather than what we can make it to be.



He said 'more' unaffordable, your statement says unaffordable. You should be asking how is it less affordable? The answer to that is clear, a higher loan means higher/longer loan repayments, which is less affordable.


Correct.

This next vid tells us just how bad Jellyfish Joe is;



Unfortunately, very few will watch it.
05:38pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1561 posts


that's your opinion... the original statement was that climate science is derided by trhe government which is not true as they have a carbon emission reducing policy.


Your post was bad and so are your views champ.

I pay the medicare levy and pay private health insurance. We still don't pay for the entire cost of our treatment. If you're for a user pays system. Well that just doesn't work. Feel free to live outside society.

The uni fees. Are you serious? Nurses don't earn the same as lawyers but still need serious training. In your libertarian utopia we'd have s***loads of lawyers and no nurses. Well done.

It is hilarious that you support crony capitalism over a market based solution.
05:41pm 29/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11450 posts
Universal Healthcare is a wonderful idea.
so is free Booze
But someone has to pay the bill.

We are hurtling towards a financial catastrophe with Universal Healthcare + the Disability Insurance Scheme. At some point some very unpopular decisions are going to need to be made. Paying $7 per consultation is not the end of the world.

Set a limit per year so those that are most affected will get some relief but little changes today are going to prevent an ugly situation in the future because nobody wants to pay for anything if they can get the Government to pay for it for them.

You must not rely on Government to save you

Government must be for the things we cant do ourselves.
Taking from Government is taking from You and I and more importantly our children because they will be left with the Bill.
05:56pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22168 posts
Because everyone above a certain level should pay the medicare levy, the exemption for those with private healthcare is Howard era middle class welfare. This GP tax doesn't go into Medicare at all, it's there to pay those who do Medical R&D many of whom donate to the LNP. If medicare is in such dire straights then why doesn't the GP tax go straight into Medicare?


it will go into consolidated revenue to plug our giant budget deficit. there is no exemption from the medicare levy but over $88k taxpayers pay more surcharge. those under $88k get it all for 1.5% and the screms of cruelty when asked to pay $7.... go figure. but if you have private health care f*** you, no credit at all for not using the public system.

Then again infi you think that the Federal Government should be run like a business.


the piper always has to be paid. you seem to think borrowed money is consequence free. sovereigns that issue too much of their own money become banana republics.

How many people do you know of who will earn millions of dollars over their lifetime? Brool won't you might. You should never start a working life with a massive debt. So for those who can't afford that millstone then university education is out.


a full time nurse earns over $60k p.a. - over a 45 year career - $2.7m not taking into account wage increases over the career which will outstrip the bond rate indexation. the market will determine which degrees are worth more.

The carbon price reduced emissions 1.4% in it's last 12 months to 1 July (quietly announced by Hunt on 23 Dec). The current policy has increased emissions 4%.


bulls***. how can the current policy even be measured since it has not been in effect for any substantial period of time. pull some more figures out of your arse please.

The only crock of s*** is you infi, because you know nothing of economics, science or anything that matters for the future.


keep on cutting and posting those "meme's....

I pay the medicare levy and pay private health insurance. We still don't pay for the entire cost of our treatment. If you're for a user pays system. Well that just doesn't work. Feel free to live outside society.


who pays then? magic?

The uni fees. Are you serious? Nurses don't earn the same as lawyers but still need serious training. In your libertarian utopia we'd have s***loads of lawyers and no nurses. Well done.


we already have s***loads of lawyers. at least in the future they will be charged according to demand for the degree.

It is hilarious that you support crony capitalism over a market based solution.


I hate crony capitalism. Anywhere a market is regulated, vested interests have an incentive to lobby government to get better rules e.g. superannuation, tobacco, telcos, medical, everywhere you look donors a trying to get the regulations changed to work for them. Crony capitalism is the result of quasi-socialist policies where everything must be approved or regulated by the state.
06:03pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1562 posts
Faceman /infi the gov can pay for all of this by enacting the Henry tax review recommendations which it commissioned to provide a report on.
06:20pm 29/12/14 Permalink
HerbalLizard
6115 posts
Sooooo do we think the GST is going to creep up as an easy alternative to pass a bastard budget

last edited by HerbalLizard at 18:38:52 29/Dec/14
06:37pm 29/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11451 posts
But Sir, Nobody wants to pay more Tax.
As soon as a Policy is suggested the FrightBats hit Twitter and FaceBook and declare its the end of the world.

We are fast approaching the stage where the only option is to lift The GST.
I actually believe this is what both sides of Politics want but neither side is willing to ask the other to support it.

Id really like it to stay off fresh food as it encourages a better diet.

*actually it also requires all the States to support a lift in GST.

last edited by FaceMan at 18:40:02 29/Dec/14
06:38pm 29/12/14 Permalink
HerbalLizard
6116 posts
I was under the impression it could be federally imposed
06:41pm 29/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1131 posts

What's exactly wrong with being a communist? Please tell me Brool?


I know you are trolling, but i'll bite anyway. I'll start off with the Communist holocaust as a good example of what's wrong with Communism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
07:03pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22169 posts
No that wasn't REAL communism. Real communism is a paradise. I just can't cite anywhere it exists.
07:07pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7356 posts
No that wasn't REAL communism. Real communism is a paradise. I just can't cite anywhere it exists.
Just like you can't cite any examples of your crazy brand of libertarianism working?
07:10pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16690 posts

Whats wrong with Communism ?
Well, a lot of people have tried to make it work and none have succeeded.


I didn't ask what was wrong with Communism, I asked what is wrong with communists?
07:24pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16691 posts

Set a limit per year so those that are most affected will get some relief but little changes today are going to prevent an ugly situation in the future because nobody wants to pay for anything if they can get the Government to pay for it for them.


I'm pretty sure Aussies will accept changes to taxes, welfare and other systems provided they feel that the higher end of the market is also doing it's fair share of 'heavy lifting'.
At the moment, it is overwhelmingly perceived to be hitting the lower income earners the hardest., then the middle and lastly the high income earners the least. I know one person who earns a bit over $300,000 and he hates the current budget plans as it doesn't affect him at all, whilst he sees some of his low income earner friends get SMASHED by the changes.

Bring out a budget that hits the high end of town as hard as the lower end, and I bet it will gain more support than this current problem.
Abolishing the mining tax was a bad idea precisely for this reason, retaining the fuel subsidies for miners is also a bad idea for this reason.
Start hitting the big earners and people will be far more acceptable of the $7 GP co-payment I bet.
07:34pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22170 posts
Just like you can't cite any examples of your crazy brand of libertarianism working?


Texas looks just dreamy to me.
07:45pm 29/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2058 posts
it will go into consolidated revenue to plug our giant budget deficit.


Oh so the GP tax is for consolidated revenue and not medicare, no it's for the 20 billion fund they are creating for their buddies. You really don't understand anything about the Budget do you?

I'll repost the vid for you, you really should watch it.

a full time nurse earns over $60k p.a. - over a 45 year career - $2.7m not taking into account wage increases over the career which will outstrip the bond rate indexation. the market will determine which degrees are worth more.


You think that nurses spend 45 years as a nurse? WTF has bond rate indexation got to do with nurses or even uni fees/debt. You really should just stop dribbling.

the piper always has to be paid. you seem to think borrowed money is consequence free. sovereigns that issue too much of their own money become banana republics.


Who do you think a monetary sovereign borrows money from? No one, they create it. What is too much money? Watch the above video numbnuts. Then watch the second vid in my previous post.....

bulls***. how can the current policy even be measured since it has not been in effect for any substantial period of time. pull some more figures out of your arse please.


Your lack of knowledge does not equal any bulls*** from me. The information has been available, on the internet, since mid November. Brown coal is replacing Hydro and since 1 July with projections above a 10% rise in carbon emissions, the current rate is 4% when compared to 30 Jun 2014. Do please bother to research before opening your mouth to change feet.


Google for dumb arses
07:46pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7357 posts
Texas looks just dreamy to me.
Texas would be broke if the federal government didn't bail them out. They have been taking more federal funding than they contribute for the past 30 years.
08:10pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22171 posts
i watched the video and the guy is full of s*** because he has completely discounted bank lending activity in the GDP calculation. fiscal policy has next to nothing to do with inflation and GDP growth (unless of course we are talking about money printing which is basically theft by stealth), and everything to do with bank lending. he has also not mentioned the effect of interest repayment costs finally he has not identified whether the deficits in his model are being funded by gopvernment bonds or money printing. that guys video was laughable. he is a chump.

Oh so the "GP tax" is for consolidated revenue and not medicare, no it's for the 20 billion fund they are creating for their buddies.


just like rego is for roads. the GP tax is now scrapped, keep up with the news.

You think that nurses spend 45 years as a nurse? WTF has bond rate indexation got to do with nurses or even uni fees/debt. You really should just stop dribbling.
you don't know much. Registered Nurses consistently work into their 60s and the retirement age will creep over 70 in time. The bond rate isbeing used to index Uni fee loans. At least try and inform yourself about these issues and stop spewing ignorant s***.

Who do you think a monetary sovereign borrows money from? No one, they create it. What is too much money? Watch the above video numbnuts. Then watch the second vid in my previous post.....


they sell bonds to investors like the chinese and have to pay them back with interest, they get the principal plus interest by taxing more than they would otherwise need to. in times of extreme deflation governments print money.

Your lack of knowledge does not equal any bulls*** from me. The information has been available, on the internet, since mid November. Brown coal is replacing Hydro and since 1 July with projections above a 10% rise in carbon emissions, the current rate is 4% when compared to 30 Jun 2014. Do please bother to research before opening your mouth to change feet.


quote sources when making outlandish claims.

Texas would be broke if the federal government didn't bail them out. They have been taking more federal funding than they contribute for the past 30 years.


yeah there this little thing called federal taxes....
08:18pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7358 posts
yeah there this little thing called federal taxes....
No s***, Sherlock. Learn to read. "They have been taking more federal funding than they contribute for the past 30 years" means their federal tax contributions were less than the amount of federal funding they received. Texas is a leaner, not a lifter. They're a welfare state.
08:26pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22172 posts

No s***, Sherlock. Learn to read. "They have been taking more federal funding than they contribute for the past 30 years" means their federal tax contributions were less than the amount of federal funding they received. Texas is a leaner, not a lifter. They're a welfare state.


do some research? your claim is bulls***.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
08:32pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7359 posts
You might not want to use a source that shows Texas took more money for 6 years out of the past decade to counter my point.
08:50pm 29/12/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22173 posts
And it has not happened every year as you claim, another outlandish unsourced claim.

here is a sourced claim: Texas number one for jobs growth.
09:02pm 29/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16693 posts
HECS/HELP debt should totally be linked to CPI and no more. I don't think it should be treated as a standard loan as it should be considered an investment in the country, as opposed to an income stream. I would prefer it be a zero net fund, so no money lost and none gained over the long run.

At the moment it is a bit silly, I'm paying off my HECS/HELP debt as slow as I can, as my home loan interest rate is higher. If it was reversed I would have closed the HECS/HELP off a while back.

At the moment I am unsure about uncapped uni-fees. I would really like to see a detailed report in how it will benefit the nation in the long term, what the projected implications of it are. Without that information how can I support it?
What will happen to the $'s that is currently used in the HECS/HELP system? Will it be pushed into research and other higher education benefits or would some be redistributed to lower education?
From a Uni's perspective they know there is short term pain with it, but it should regain normal levels of attendance after 2-3 years (UK did a similar thing). They would certainly like to see that money come back in the form of research grants.

I would hate for that money to be pumped into Coal Rail network kickbacks for example or some other scheme to help out a rich buddy.
11:56pm 29/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2059 posts
i watched the video and the guy is full of s*** because he has completely discounted bank lending activity in the GDP calculation. fiscal policy has next to nothing to do with inflation and GDP growth (unless of course we are talking about money printing which is basically theft by stealth), and everything to do with bank lending. he has also not mentioned the effect of interest repayment costs finally he has not identified whether the deficits in his model are being funded by gopvernment bonds or money printing. that guys video was laughable. he is a chump.


OMG you really don't understand at all do you. I'll help you though, go read SEVEN DEADLY INNOCENT FRAUDS OF ECONOMIC POLICY by Warren Mosler to save you time you only need to read up to and including page 68.

quote sources when making outlandish claims.


I did in the post called Google for dumb arses try it yourself you lazy s***e.

yeah there this little thing called federal taxes....


OMG you think federal taxes pay for anything? They are a method that federal governments use to control aggregate demand
01:29am 30/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11452 posts
Gary Johns, writing in The Australian, suggests there should be “no taxpayer inducement to have children”.
The former MP who served in the Keating government admits such a measure will “undoubtedly affect strugglers, [and] … Aboriginal and Islander people in great proportions”.

“But the idea that someone can have the taxpayer, as of right, fund the choice to have a child is repugnant.”

According to Mr Johns larger families of past generations “were the result of the combination of absent contraception and the need to have many children, in order that some survive to care for parents in old age”.
But he says such conditions now don’t apply.


http://www.news.com.au/national/former-labor-minister-gary-johns-suggests-linking-the-dole-to-contraception/story-fncynjr2-1227169842999

In Britain your child payments now stop after the 2nd child, subsequent children dont increase the money.

Offer Contraceptive implants for free.
11:36am 30/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16696 posts
Cool contraception, now the government gets to try and control how many kids poor people have, yay.
12:42pm 30/12/14 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1132 posts
> Former Labor Minister suggests the idea
> Act like it's now official government policy.
03:12pm 30/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16698 posts
It's a dumb idea whoever makes it.
03:33pm 30/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11453 posts
You hear about that Aboriginal Mother that murdered her kids ?
8 kids to 5 different Fathers. $2000+ a fortnight, subsidized housing.

Welfare should not be honey pot.

03:38pm 30/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16700 posts
Ahh, so faceman supports regulating people due to a small minority. I thought you didn't like government regulation?
04:27pm 30/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4175 posts
There's a reason having children is subsidized. Low birthrate, more women are having careers instead of children, which is a good thing.
Also, we certainly don't want Women and their children homeless.
04:33pm 30/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11454 posts
Ahh, so faceman supports regulating people due to a small minority. I thought you didn't like government regulation?


You are free to have as many kids as you want but my Taxes will fund up to two kids, after that you are on your own. You might have 4 kids but your payment will be the same as for two kids.

Have many kids !

Feminism is the cause of low birthrates and it has left many Women broken knowing they waited too long to have kids. Feminism has gone too far and has restructured Family life often to the detriment of Women and Children.

last edited by FaceMan at 16:51:36 30/Dec/14
04:48pm 30/12/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7361 posts
Feminism is the cause of low birthrates...
No, it's because child mortality has improved.
05:14pm 30/12/14 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2060 posts
Feminism is the cause of low birthrates and it has left many Women broken knowing they waited too long to have kids. Feminism has gone too far and has restructured Family life often to the detriment of Women and Children.

last edited by FaceMan at 16:51:36 30/Dec/14


And you would know because you're a woman or a girlie-man?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10888763_714071198689935_5747721035719562102_n.jpg?oh=47f8c667c3b2e4d10441dcce0237874a&oe=5528F6C2&__gda__=1429144862_88224c93465495e963c63d91ceeee44a
05:15pm 30/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11455 posts

Contraception + Feminism gave Women the chance to live lives like Men, but they wanted to still be Women. Originally Feminism was about Equality but it became much more revolutionary?

Im not an Abbott 'Women should be like they were in the 50s' but I think Feminism seems to be much like Socialism and promised a better Life but has delivered a mixed bag for Women but has had serious effects on the Family unit.





last edited by FaceMan at 19:03:56 30/Dec/14

last edited by FaceMan at 19:08:39 30/Dec/14
07:01pm 30/12/14 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
2711 posts
It is rather hard to live on a single income nowadays unless you own your own home or live rent free. I'm not sure I would solely say feminism is the only factor contributing to low birth rates. I'd say it is a whole combination of things. In a fairly short space of time our population doubled. Now there isn't a mad panic to increase our population like there was after the 2nd world war.
11:44pm 30/12/14 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
7032 posts
It's because the cost of housing has skyrocketed.

I have family members who would like to have a child but are having to put it off until later in life because high rent/ purchase costs.

Both sides of government are complicit in this so it's a non-issue and you have no one to vote for on it.

So suck it up.
09:47am 31/12/14 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
204 posts
Feminism is the cause of low birthrates and it has left many Women broken knowing they waited too long to have kids. Feminism has gone too far and has restructured Family life often to the detriment of Women and Children.


I always thought feminism was about men learning to shut the f*** up and listen so maybe it hasn't gone far enough..? But then I have a persistent irrational fear of getting randomly gang-bashed by some raggin hairy-legged bushpigs... and I don't even live in the bush.
03:24pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
206 posts
HOLY COW! We we're well on our way to becoming a communist state and didn't even realise!:

After a visit to the Soviet Union in 1978, James effusively observed there was "no inflation in Russia, no unemployment" but "plenty of liquor."


We're pretty much a third of the way there!

No wonder the libs (both state and fed) and their coppers have been cracking down on public drinking, alcohol at public events, our night-life in general - they're clawing us back from being 33% communist!

God Bless Tony Abbott and his army of CIA informers! and God Bless America!
04:08pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4176 posts
Indeed, it was the Capitalists in the Soviet union that brought it all crumbling down. Also, that isn't true Communism either.
The ideal state would be a smaller government for distribution of public funds from the country's resources, socialist business co-ops so workers get the full benefit of their labor instead of being exploited by Capitalists.
04:16pm 31/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11460 posts
Vash, why would I want to open a Business in your Country when my profits would be subject to excessive taxes and controls and regulations ?

What is my incentive to do Business in your Country rather than the Democracy next door ?

What happens if your Country doesnt have a wealth of Natural Resources ?

04:49pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4177 posts
You wouldn't own the business, it would belong to the employees. This would increase productivity, and the well being of the company as a whole instead of a single beneficiary (the capitalist, you) These companies already exist.
Capitalism promotes selfishness and greed. A business owner should look at his employees as business partners, not as exploitable market based entities.
06:13pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16703 posts

socialist business co-ops so workers get the full benefit of their labor instead of being exploited by Capitalists.


I'd totally be happy with being the guy who sits in the office issues orders to the coal miners who have to go get dirty and do hefty work. We all get paid the same after all!


What is my incentive to do Business in your Country rather than the Democracy next door ?

What happens if your Country doesnt have a wealth of Natural Resources ?


Whats my incentive to allow your company to exploit my workers, what happiness are you bringing to them?

Since my country has spastic amounts of resources I can be picky with who I let open businesses here.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 18:42:33 31/Dec/14
06:40pm 31/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24765 posts
I'd totally be happy with being the guy who sits in the office issues orders to the coal miners who have to go get dirty and do hefty work. We all get paid the same after all!
At the moment, wouldn't the office person probably be paid more?
07:05pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16704 posts
I dunno, in communism aren't they supposed to be paid equally?
07:08pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Vash
4178 posts
This isn't communism I'm talking about, it's socialism. People aren't paid the same, they're just paid the full value of their labour, defined by the business coop
07:27pm 31/12/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11461 posts
I dunno, in communism aren't they supposed to be paid equally?.


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"



last edited by FaceMan at 19:35:02 31/Dec/14
07:34pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13594 posts
pigs can't climb ladders and paint sentences on walls, which renders your point moot
08:39pm 31/12/14 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
207 posts
I dunno, in communism aren't they supposed to be paid equally?


I don't think the rules ever got that specific, but common sense would suggest that a workers' paradise would allow incentives for the nastier jobs, plus sharing the workload... or whatever the workers want, I guess.

But in these hypotheticals it's context that makes all the difference - is the state surrounded by capitalist economies? Fascist anarchists? Is the business within our current economy and so has to make a profit and grow and attract investment? Something completely different and surrounded by fascist anarchists? In 99% of cases, debates about political theory are just a series of tangent nonsense claims.

Indeed, it was the Capitalists in the Soviet union that brought it all crumbling down.


yeah it was those damn capitalist-roaders from within the system, as Mao would say.
10:02pm 31/12/14 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24766 posts
heh nice meme. But mate, I live in the real world, and in the real world if everyone looked after themselves and just showed some responsibility there wouldn't be any need to look after other people. Bootstraps mate.
03:55pm 01/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4180 posts
And that's what it comes down to.
To support a right wing / Capitalist agenda, you only really want to look out for you, and your friends. F*** the rest of society, apparently.
The problem is, society is the very fabric of our existence. If you don't keep that running swell, and the attitudes that divide us (which is the increasing wealth gap) then you're f***ed.
04:17pm 01/01/15 Permalink
loutl
Brisbane, Queensland
345 posts
Vash, to support the left wing/Socialist view you only need to care about ruling and enslaving everyone else, f*** their liberty or freedom.

Or, derp derp, see how easy it is to simply assert any old bulls***.

I know fpot simply adores the tired "f*** you got mine" meme. But how is it helpful to engage in such puerile garbage?

For every mean-spirited right wing capitalist pig who wouldn't piss on a burning monk for free, there's some trailer trash welfare cheating bogan with both hands out shamelessly for money that others made. Sorry sacks will be found on both sides, I'm sure in similar amounts, but focusing on them isn't going to help in reaching meaningful understanding with people that don't necessarily share your political views. But nevertheless are kind compassionate people.
06:31pm 01/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24767 posts
There's other places on the internet where it certainly is possible to have a meaningful debate about politics where people from both sides of the fence are willing and able to calmly put their points forward and then discuss them. It certainly isn't here though. Here we have the absolute dumbest of the dumb sitting on the right hand side. There's no point spending any time reasoning with them. You can't reason people out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into in the first place.

You ask how is it helpful to engage in such puerile garbage and I say it isn't. But any sort of helpful or worthwhile discussion between both sides of politics here is simply impossible. There once was a time where I tried. I'd provide links and stuff to back up my claims, but it would simply be ignored and replied to with the same circular argument bulls*** every single time. So now I just make fun of them without using swear words (I was getting nuked when I used swear words).

You've come a long way from your Bill and Melinda Gates are part of a worldwide vaccination conspiracy to poison the third world thing though, which is good.* Maybe you can help me. Is there a political commentator on the right side of politics out there who isn't absolutely bats*** insane ala Bolt, O'Reilly, Glenn Beck etc etc? Because I'd really like to hear from one who manages to put forward their views while also addressing what I can only see are massive flaws with them. It seems just about every tenant of right-wing politics is provably wrong in some way, either by real-world examples or academically.

*actually maybe that wasn't you.
06:54pm 01/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2062 posts
Here we have the absolute dumbest of the dumb sitting on the right hand side.


They're also in Government;

https://scontent-b-nrt.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1506652_966305383399397_7718805698098067218_n.png?oh=2e8f253f3c7f699d52404c0337784eca&oe=5544AB7A
08:37pm 01/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16706 posts
fpot, start with these guys:

https://www.facebook.com/ozlibertarians

There current webpage is down: http://libertarian.org.au/

They are more centered than right, so possibly are a good place to start tackling righty thinking with enough lefty goodwill to not make you gag.
From there you may find other places to gently delve into the distressful world of the righty.

Basically these guys will explain stuff to you without the dribble that infi resorts too. I think infi is actually a Libertarian, Anarcho capitalism to be precise (Libertarian Anarchism).


last edited by Tollaz0r! at 22:10:25 01/Jan/15
10:05pm 01/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1133 posts

What happens when socialist super-taxes proposed by Vash types fail - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

Cuba without the sun

F*** YOU! HAVENT GOT MINE!
06:43pm 02/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22174 posts
Tax the rich!
07:49pm 02/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2063 posts
07:55pm 02/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24773 posts
Hey but I heard there were some guys in unions who did some illegal stuff. This means that all unions and everything to do with unions is terrible forever. The free market and job creators should be ruling freely because I am pretty sure no business leaders have ever done anything illegal or unethical and we should all leave it to them.

Another reason I hate unions is that I am completely inept as a manager and don't know how to manage or train my staff and have all these pesky unfair dismissal laws that I have to follow. It really exposes me as a completely useless mook which is terrible.
08:08pm 02/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1134 posts
Unions exist as a business disguised as a movement that cares about workers but in reality are only paid to care.
12:23am 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4181 posts
Yet achieve all those things above... interesting perspective there brool.. not.
12:35am 03/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11462 posts
Unions are allowed in Vashland ?
03:18am 03/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24775 posts
Unions exist as a business disguised as a movement that cares about workers but in reality are only paid to care.
Another brilliant insight from the mewling little unemployable child. Tell me, what other nuggets of wisdom can you share with us? You must learn all sorts of things in your basement.
05:34am 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4183 posts
Unions are allowed in Vashland ?


Wouldn't be necessary with business coops. It is in a capitalist society though.
10:26am 03/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1135 posts
Yet achieve all those things above... interesting perspective there brool.. not.


They are paid to do so, just like you pay any other business who offers a service to you.

I love watching people believe that unions exist to care about your rights out of the goodness of their heart lol.
12:32pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22175 posts
Wouldn't be necessary with business coops. It is in a capitalist society though.


because all pigs would be equal right?

I love watching people believe that unions exist to care about your rights out of the goodness of their heart lol.


they also exist to fund the personal expenditure of union officials and to finance personal political campaigns. thats the other important services members are paying for.
12:38pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38762 posts
i totally agree with tax the rich.

02:17pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4184 posts


they also exist to fund the personal expenditure of union officials and to finance personal political campaigns. thats the other important services members are paying for.


More libtard speak.
Sole reason for unions to exist is to funnel money to those fat union officials right? That Union corruption witchhunt went real well for the Coalition didn't it?
This is just propaganda from the right to weaken the union movement.
02:34pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Eorl
AusGamers Editor
Brisbane, Queensland
14140 posts
i totally agree with tax the rich.


I don't think just taxing the rich and letting everyone else off is the way to go, but the government definitely needs to look at why big companies and those earning ridiculous amounts of money aren't paying their way and avoiding quite a number of taxes.
02:39pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16709 posts
I have a question for the anarcho-capitalists, what happens when 1 person acquires enough wealth and power to greatly influence the people and land around him to the point where he is effectively a dictator? If this man also owns a sizeable enforcement firm, what is to stop him controlling your life more than the current governmental situation?

03:37pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16710 posts
A separate question for the minimalist-libertarians, what do you consider to be a 'minimalist' government? What should and should not be be administered by the government?
How would you ensure your civil liberties are not eroded by the very rich?
03:39pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2922 posts
why big companies and those earning ridiculous amounts of money aren't paying their way and avoiding quite a number of taxes.


Because big companies can just take their business and, to a lesser extent these days, taxes overseas. Another reality of globalisation. To get growth you want to make your country attractive to the rich, to big business and to investors. This is also why you can't just tax the rich. It' s not like they're the majority vote is it? They will just move.
04:05pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2923 posts
what happens when 1 person acquires enough wealth and power to greatly influence the people and land around him to the point where he is effectively a dictator?


You make an unclear distinction between wealth and power in your post, but in the case of dictatorship, the anarcho-capatalist system would have an agreed upon set of laws to stop that kind of thing, similar to now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law

If this man also owns a sizeable enforcement firm, what is to stop him controlling your life more than the current governmental situation?


Big dispute resolution companies (who of course would have your civil rights and liberties at heart... lol) . And I guess if it's one person, an assassination is easier than a revolt?

How would you ensure your civil liberties are not eroded by the very rich?


I guess the minimalist libertatians would have this over the straight up anarchists? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers
04:23pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22176 posts
Because big companies can just take their business and, to a lesser extent these days, taxes overseas. Another reality of globalisation. To get growth you want to make your country attractive to the rich, to big business and to investors. This is also why you can't just tax the rich. It' s not like they're the majority vote is it? They will just move.


just make a law that they can't move.

Anarcho capitlaism is a contradiction. Capitalism and liberty is dependent on a government that provides a) law and order and b) protection of absolute liberties of individuals. Libertarianism only evolved properly as a concept after the American and French revolutions where the concept of constitutional democracy was created. The Constitution being the supreme document governing all citizens of a country meant protection of individual liberties and institutions despite the desire of a majority ("the tyranny of the majority"). Around the same time Adam Smith and John Locke were developing the concepts of classical liberalism which did not contemplate constitutional protection of liberties but nonetheless stressed the rights of the individual. This evolution is discussed at length in Political Order and Political Decay by Francis F**uyama.

Protection of these rights can only be achieved by a central government which protects the people, i.e. it does not harass or infringe their civil liberties. Furthermore, protection of property rights can only occur via rule of law and an independent judiciary to which citizens can bring their grievances and have faith that a fair impartial decision will be issued. That is another failure of the all powerful state which Vash and the Socialist Alliance forget. Once the state becomes all powerful they convene show courts like China or North Korea or Russia for fear of an independent court ruling against Big Brother.

I enjoyed the irony of Hurricaine Jim's post alleging that organised labor was responsible for free education. HAH. Standardised public education was another byproduct of the industrial revolution because big bosses with their cigars and top hats needed workers who could read and add up and tell the time.

Minimalist government provides courts and jails, defence, police, schools and border protection. Health may be an optional service depending on your flavour but libertarian government doesn't go much beyond that. 5% of GDP or less is a good minimalist government.
04:28pm 03/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2064 posts
Is this one of the rich?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1454942_10151971097264470_559330987_n.jpg?oh=ee213fed4edf38b30cc5d7068b554b2a&oe=5542046B&__gda__=1429496740_5410766cafde26474556746c43fcb78c
I enjoyed the irony of Hurricaine Jim's post alleging that organised labor was responsible for free education. HAH. Standardised public education was another byproduct of the industrial revolution because big bosses with their cigars and top hats needed workers who could read and add up and tell the time.


An interesting rewriting of history cased in irony and more like a deliberate distortion of the facts to attempt to prove a point. You don't need a education system to teach people to tell the time, people were telling time well before being able to read and write. It's more ironic that business wants education and training but doesn't want to foot the bill for it.
04:31pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22177 posts
That's his opinion and he is entitled to it. He pays taxes and the government allocates some of that money to the homeless on Gerry's behalf.

What is the point of the picture? (Meme LOL) Gery Harvey is an a******? Congratulations.

Did Gerry commit a thought crime? Tut tut.
04:37pm 03/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2065 posts
That's his opinion and he is entitled to it. He pays taxes and the government allocates some of that money to the homeless on Gerry's behalf.

What is the point of the picture? (Meme LOL) Gery Harvey is an a******? Congratulations.

Did Gerry commit a thought crime? Tut tut.


OMG there you go again thinking that Governments need taxes to pay for things......

Your ongoing failure to understand what a monetary sovereign is really bewilders me despite having been handed all the information you need to understand it. I suppose you can lead a horse to water but you won't make them drink.....
04:46pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22178 posts
HJ sounds just like Pauline Hanson... pay for all the government spending by printing money! haha what a classic socialist alliance policy
04:52pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4188 posts
Here's hoping Gerry doesn't get his wish by putting GST on overseas Internet purchases under $1k.
Problem with these guys in Business is they have no empathy for the working class, and they have alot of influence on Government. This is why his "tut tut" thoughts are important to release in meme form to ridicule.
05:00pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16711 posts
Infi, a good explanation of your stance.

I see a problem of how do you have an independent rule of law? How do you protect the rule of law from corruption from both state and civil powers?
05:29pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22179 posts
The best way to have a government free from corruption is to have laws which outlaw corrupt conduct, an independent court system which has no dealings with the government (does not consult or deal with the Executive), an independent police/anti-corruption system which chooses the cases it prosecutes, parliamentary oversight committees and a free press.
05:46pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16712 posts
Who funds the these independent entities?
05:54pm 03/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1136 posts

i totally agree with tax the rich.



As i pointed out above, it really works doesn't it? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

I have a question for the anarcho-capitalists, what happens when 1 person acquires enough wealth and power to greatly influence the people and land around him to the point where he is effectively a dictator? If this man also owns a sizeable enforcement firm, what is to stop him controlling your life more than the current governmental situation?



You are asking that based on the narrative that every single person can be corrupted by money. Not every person is swayed by money.

That's his opinion and he is entitled to it. He pays taxes and the government allocates some of that money to the homeless on Gerry's behalf.

What is the point of the picture? (Meme LOL) Gery Harvey is an a******? Congratulations.

Did Gerry commit a thought crime? Tut tut.


Hurricane was attempting the whole "Look! a business person has a harsh attitude! All business owners are corrupt evil people!" routine.
05:56pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22180 posts
Who funds the these independent entities?


the government and taxpayers as is currently the case.
05:58pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16713 posts
So then wouldn't they be subject to influence by the state?
06:48pm 03/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2066 posts
HJ sounds just like Pauline Hanson... pay for all the government spending by printing money! haha what a classic socialist alliance policy


So on one hand I'm a right wing racist on the left side of politics?

What, print money why do they need to do that there is plenty in circulation? The fact that for the Government, as a monetary sovereign, will never go bankrupt, will never have print it unless there is a physical shortage, will always be able to pay anything it owes including pensions, medicare, defence procurement. The only way the could stuff it up is if they flood the market with money, or conversely be anal about a surplus. A flood would cause inflation and low exchange rate, a surplus causes high private debt.

Unfortunately politicians are playing to the fiscally ignorant like infi and brool. These people seem to think that a government is a business, it has never been one nor ever will it be.

Hurricane was attempting the whole "Look! a business person has a harsh attitude! All business owners are corrupt evil people!" routine.


So being a nice person is bad? Being generous with the needy is terrible. Bill Gates is an idiot?
06:53pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22181 posts

So then wouldn't they be subject to influence by the state?


no because the Executive government has zero power over the court. they are required to fund the courts by an act of parliament and the power of removal of a judge is extremely limited (usually insanity or serious criminal offence).

So on one hand I'm a right wing racist on the left side of politics?


what you are espousing was Hanson's exact policy when she launched one nation.

What, print money why do they need to do that there is plenty in circulation? The fact that for the Government, as a monetary sovereign, will never go bankrupt, will never have print it unless there is a physical shortage, will always be able to pay anything it owes including pensions, medicare, defence procurement. The only way the could stuff it up is if they flood the market with money, or conversely be anal about a surplus. A flood would cause inflation and low exchange rate, a surplus causes high private debt.


Pay with what? Dollars issued by a government are only worth something if they are actually based on wealth possessed by the government. That is why governments maintain gold reserves. You live in a dream land where governments can print worthless one trillion dollar notes and buy all the hospitals and aircraft carriers they want. The public soon becomes very annoyed with this type of conduct and begins trading a black market as happened in both wartime Germany and communist Russia. Sound spending policy creates confidence in the masses.

Monetary sovereigns that don't exercise fiscal responsibility don't go bankrupt, they just become banana republics - see Zimbabwe. The fact that you seriously believe what you are typing qualifies you for the elite rank of platinum grade idiot.

So being a nice person is bad? Being generous with the needy is terrible. Bill Gates is an idiot?


The great thing about being free is that people can choose what they want to do with their money. Property rights.
07:06pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16714 posts

no because the Executive government has zero power over the court. they are required to fund the courts by an act of parliament and the power of removal of a judge is extremely limited (usually insanity or serious criminal offence).


Buy what about cash benefits, incentives and the like ie bribes? The super wealthy and highly influential can 'own' the courts, not unlike how the government does the same, and the same do to the governments.



The great thing about being free is that people can choose what they want to do with their money. Property rights.


Provided the property rights aren't eroded by the extremely wealthy and influential.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 19:33:04 03/Jan/15
07:31pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4189 posts
The great thing about being free is that people can choose what they want to do with their money. Property rights.


The bad thing about being free is people can be suicide bombers.
Or, rich exploiting the poor. those kind of things.
07:37pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22182 posts


Buy what about cash benefits, incentives and the like ie bribes? The super wealthy and highly influential can 'own' the courts, not unlike how the government does the same, and the same do to the governments.


Assuming the State's other independent arms of police and corruption investigators and media are working effectively such conduct will inevitably be uncovered and the corrupt judge jailed. besides, what is the alternative structure? An all powerful State with show courts is not very appealing. Healthy distrust and transparency is the best remedy.

The bad thing about being free is people can be suicide bombers.
Or, rich exploiting the poor. similar things.


One is an act of terror, the other is simple trade and commerce. You call it exploitation but free people can marry who they want and work for who they want.
07:37pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16715 posts

One is free, the other is simple trade and commerce. You call it exploitation but free people can marry who they want and work for who they want.


Best replied with:


Rent a flat above a shop
Cut your hair and get a job
Smoke some f*** and play some pool
Pretend you never went to school

But still you'll never get it right
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah


I'm pretty sure the person who grew up in a poor house of uneducated parents will consider he isn't as free as the person who grew up in a rich house with an excellent education and all the benefits that go with it.
07:43pm 03/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24776 posts
You call it exploitation but free people can marry who they want and work for who they want.
heh peak lolbertarian right here.
07:55pm 03/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2067 posts
Pay with what? Dollars issued by a government are only worth something if they are actually based on wealth possessed by the government. That is why governments maintain gold reserves. You live in a dream land where governments can print worthless one trillion dollar notes and buy all the hospitals and aircraft carriers they want. The public soon becomes very annoyed with this type of conduct and begins trading a black market as happened in both wartime Germany and communist Russia. Sound spending policy creates confidence in the masses.

Monetary sovereigns that don't exercise fiscal responsibility don't go bankrupt, they just become banana republics - see Zimbabwe. The fact that you seriously believe what you are typing qualifies you for the elite rank of platinum grade idiot.



Lol hahahha what a fiscal retard you really are.

Here are the things you, the fiscal retard, believe;


1. The government must raise funds through taxation or borrowing in order to spend. In other words, government spending is limited by its ability to tax or borrow.
2. With government deficits, we are leaving our debt burden to our children.
3. Government budget deficits take away savings.
4. Social Security is broken.
5. The trade deficit is an unsustainable imbalance that takes away jobs and output.
6. We need savings to provide the funds for investment.
7. It’s a bad thing that higher deficits today mean higher taxes tomorrow.


My response;

1. Federal government spending is in no case operationally constrained by revenues, meaning that there is no “solvency risk.” In other words, the federal government can always make any and all payments in its own currency, no matter how large the deficit is, or how few taxes it collects. This is why gold reserves are irrelevant. No foreign country or creditor can demand payment in gold, they get $AUS or nothing.

2. Collectively, in real terms, there is no such burden possible. Debt or no debt, our children get to consume whatever they can produce.

3. Federal Government budget deficits add to savings. It begins with what’s called “the paradox of thrift” in economic, which goes something like this: In the economy, spending must equal all income, including profits, for the output of the economy to get sold. (Think about that for a moment to make sure you’ve got it before moving on.) If anyone attempts to save by spending less than his income, at least one other person must make up for that by spending more than his own income, or else the output of the economy won’t get sold. Unsold output means excess inventories, and the low sales means production and employment cuts, and thus less total income. That shortfall of income is equal to the amount not spent by the person trying to save.

4. Federal Government Cheques Don’t Bounce.

5. Imports are real benefits and exports are real costs. Trade deficits directly improve our standard of living. Jobs are lost because taxes are too high for a given level of government spending, not because of imports. In other words, going to work to produce real goods and services to export for someone else to consume does you no
economic good at all, unless you get to import and consume the real goods and services others produce in return. Put more succinctly: The real wealth of a nation is all it produces and keeps for itself, plus all it imports, minus what it must export. A trade deficit, in fact, increases our real standard of living. How can it be any other way? So, the higher the trade deficit the better.

6. Investment adds to savings. See "paradox of thrift" above.

7. First, why does government tax? Not to get money, but instead to take away our spending power if it thinks we have too much spending power and it’s causing inflation. Why are we running higher deficits today? Because the “department store” has a lot of unsold goods and services in it, unemployment is high and output is lower than capacity. The government is buying what it wants and we don’t have enough after-tax spending power to buy what’s left over.
08:38pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4190 posts

You call it exploitation but free people can marry who they want and work for who they want.
http://i.imgur.com/klJkADu.png

When labor laws are not strong enough, quality of life goes down. We are forced to work to live. Many don't have the luxury of working for who they want. Not everyone can obtain an education and sell themselves to obtain a higher quality of life.
Hence, corporations lobby to reduce labor laws to maximize profit, and in turn leading to a lower quality of life for people.

Should corporation's profits take precedent over the wellbeing of the working population? I say no.
09:10pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22183 posts
So we can get the government to buy every Australian a Bentley. Free money, the magic pudding is real. This is a break through!
09:12pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16716 posts

We are forced to work to live.



Ummm..... We don't have a robot army to do all our work for us.

Also, vash, that sentence ironically supports infi. Why are you forced to work to live? Because you have to pay taxes and fees. You cannot, legally, go and live on a piece of land and not pay the government a cent, no matter how self-sufficient you are (btw, that takes s*** loads of work .. to live).
So supporting infi's views is actually a closer step to living with less work, it also generally means living with less stuff.
09:47pm 03/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2069 posts
So we can get the government to buy every Australian a Bentley. Free money, the magic pudding is real. This is a break through!


Your failure in comprehension does not equate to a magic pudding.

Perhaps you're not a fiscal retard, just a lolbretarian retard, because they have as much knowledge and understanding as you.
10:02pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4191 posts

Ummm..... We don't have a robot army to do all our work for us.


Just a matter of time. We'll need basic income policy when alot of jobs become automated.
10:29pm 03/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22184 posts



Your failure in comprehension does not equate to a magic pudding


But

Federal government spending is in no case operationally constrained by revenues.



So the government can spend unlimited monies right? According to HJ bizarro world.

Argentina found out this is not the case the hard way.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring
10:52pm 03/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1137 posts
The government can spend as much as it wants, she whack it all on the credit card, she'll be right mate.

It only becomes a problem when our debt level reaches catastrophic Greek levels, but let's not worry until then. Borrow to oblivion!
11:21pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
5132 posts
So we can get the government to buy every Australian a Bentley.
no just the ones that "donate" to the right people and get fat contracts for their businesses.
11:23pm 03/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11463 posts
What if the Government bought Dollars off of us ?
We could set the price at $100 for every $1 and that way we would become 100 times as wealthy (cash wise)
11:39pm 03/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4192 posts
Nice exaggeration, libtards. Oh, if we want labor laws strronger that means we all want bentleys!@^@

Increase taxation on mining. put the carbon tax back. Cut mining fuel subsidies. theres your increased revenue idiots. AND without harming the economy.
11:55pm 03/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11464 posts
...BREAKING NEWS>>>>>>>
Mining Interests in Vashland have decided its no longer economical to Mine there and are quitting the Country.

Where will Vashland get that lost revenue from ?
The Jobs ?
the Jobs that were created to support the Mining industry ?
12:08am 04/01/15 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10602 posts
i totally agree with tax the rich.


you're getting warmer - keep trying

go lookup the Super for your friends and family ( embarrassing question I know ).

then look at yours.

don't look at it too long dude.

Infi makes sence
12:16am 04/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22185 posts
Nice exaggeration, libtards. Oh, if we want labor laws strronger that means we all want bentleys!@^@


dude.... where was that said anywhere? stop hallucinating and read what is written. HJ stated the government has unlimited purchasing power...

increase taxation on mining. put the carbon tax back. Cut mining fuel subsidies. theres your increased revenue idiots. AND without harming the economy.


will we tax forestry and tourism too?

we have a $40b deficit due to all of our welfare and social programs. carbon tax and mining tax is a drop in the ocean.

go lookup the Super for your friends and family ( embarrassing question I know ).

then look at yours.


spook lost all his in the GFC, he will be working till he is 75.
12:21am 04/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4193 posts

we have a $40b deficit due to all of our welfare and social programs. carbon tax and mining tax is a drop in the ocean.


Get informed.
The deficit is because of the unsustainable tax cuts committed during the howard era. Did he really think we'd have a mining boom forever?
Saving the economy from the GFC was thanks to Labor. Now we need to increase taxation back to pre Howard levels. put the carbon & a stronger mining tax back. a surplus isn't necessary but would be nice.
12:31am 04/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22186 posts

The most recent OECD data places total Australian taxation from all tiers of govt at 27% of GDP but when private health insurance and compulsory superannuation contributions are factored in it is 33%. One third of everything we earn is consumed by the government. And you are suggesting more taxation....

Thankfully IPA do the research and shine a spotlight on our inflating government. http://ipa.org.au/news/3224/the-only-real-tax-reform-is-lower-tax


12:40am 04/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16717 posts

if we want labor laws strronger


Dude they are plenty strong enough as they are now, I don't want them any stronger, or any weaker.

I really think the fuel subsidy for miners has to go, or be substantially reduced. We can't cut health or we pay for it big time in 10-15 years time when many more people are chronically ill due to poor health options when they were younger.
We cant cut education, otherwise we pay for it big time in 10-15 years where we pump out a poorly educated workforce in a services based economy, that is massive recipe for disaster.
We can't cut science as again, we pay for it in 10-15 years time by substantially reduced economic benefit from various scientific advances, cutting CSIRO is bad idea.

By cutting all these things now, we risk a massive rogering in the long term that will be very difficult to work our way out, unless a huge war breaks out during that time, then everything changes.

So really, the only option is to reduce welfare, both private and corporate. Starting with the fuel subsidy for miners would be a big start.
12:49am 04/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4194 posts
You do realise that it's been debunked, over and over that lowering taxes to the rich, and to corporations, do not create jobs, and increasing taxation does not harm competitiveness?
If this were the case, our unemployment rate would be far higher, and our country would have been in recession for a long time.

Why do you support lower taxes, when the evidence states that increased taxation increases prosperity?

The France situation was a scare campaign, again, by big business, as they have done ever since the union movement started. Yes, increase taxation too much and the wealthy will want to exit the country. That is based on individual income, they increased it too much i believe. The best thing to do is to increase tax on corporations and super profits and resources.
Our mining tax would have been far more effective if the mining industry didn't spend countless millions on its advertising campaign, harming Labor in the polls. There were no risk to mining jobs.
12:56am 04/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2070 posts


So the government can spend unlimited monies right? According to HJ bizarro world.

Argentina found out this is not the case the hard way.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring


Oh good you picked the perfect case. Not that you realise that prior to the Argentine default they had actually fixed their exchange rate to 1:1 with the $US. Thus making the US Federal Reserve the control in their economy. A floating $ > fixed $. This is the same thing that has happened to Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain and Italy...they gave up being a monetary sovereign by adopting the Euro. The economic strength in the EU lies in German and France who took a hit in the GFC but their economies had sufficient ability to absorb it.

If you had read and comprehended your whole wikipedia link you might have come up with something similar to the above.

BTW I've never said that any Government has/had unlimited funds to spend. That's your lolbertarian interpretation of what I've written. This is because you think that a Government is a business, name any business has the gravitas or wherewithal to do what a government does? And this is the reason why your head is so completely up your arse that you don't realise the stench is your own.
12:57am 04/01/15 Permalink
baz
Victoria
775 posts
'lost revenue'

That's a lovely term isn't it.

When the tax payer loses 'revenue' its just called 'cost of living' or 'bills'.
01:10am 04/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22187 posts
You do realise that it's been debunked, over and over that lowering taxes to the rich, and to corporations, do not create jobs, and does not harm competitiveness?
If this were the case, our unemployment rate would be far higher, and our country would have been in recession for a long time.


i don't agree and i don't accept int has ever been debunked. one thing i do know is that i don't trust the govt to spend efficiently or effectively a single dollar given to it. they will tax for their necessary functions and the rest is wasted on boondoggles and bloat.

our country is prosperous because we have giant holes in the ground exporting riches to other countries which is providing employment and allowing us to buy nice things from other countries. we can't manufacture anything because our wages are too expensive and we have too many prohibitively expensive penalty rates.

Why do you support lower taxes, when the evidence states that increased taxation increases prosperity?


because the last entity deserving of any more money is the govt.

A floating $ > fixed $.


Every one of your posts further exposes your economic illiteracy. As the banana republic pumps out more of its worthless currency to finance generous pensions or expensive spending programs, the less of that currency other countries will want. Modern day Russia is another perfect example. The interest rates have skyrocketed to 17% (and it's like you have completely ignored Zimbabwe). Apple has stopped selling products in Russia. Hyperinflation is on its way.

You live in a fantasy world where worthless paper can buy valuable goods simply by the Crown's authority. Unfortunately other countries don't have to accept worthless paper. That is a f ate suffered by the poor locals. Once they have received enough of the worthless paper, they throw their government out. Other countries just stop selling.
01:14am 04/01/15 Permalink
baz
Victoria
777 posts
Is it worthwhile comparing our economy to Russia or Zimbabwe?
02:21am 04/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22188 posts
Is it worthwhile comparing our economy to Russia or Zimbabwe?



Australia does not employ their fiscal management strategies but that is what Hurricane Jim is recommending.
02:27am 04/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2071 posts

Every one of your posts further exposes your economic illiteracy. As the banana republic pumps out more of its worthless currency to finance generous pensions or expensive spending programs, the less of that currency other countries will want. Modern day Russia is another perfect example. The interest rates have skyrocketed to 17% (and it's like you have completely ignored Zimbabwe). Apple has stopped selling products in Russia. Hyperinflation is on its way.


Good, glad you picked another example. You do realise that Mugabe destroyed the Zimbabwe economy by throwing competent farmers off their land and replacing them with his ZANU-PF supporters who don't know what to do on a farm. This coupled with trade sanctions and constant drought caused hyperinflation and the Zimbabwe $ to crash. Resulting in the suspension of the Z$ and replacing it with multiple foreign currencies, effectively abandoning their monetary sovereignty. Zimbabwe is a perfect example of how a country driven by megalomaniac can become undone.

Russia is all about geopolitics and trade sanctions. Apple stopped selling products there because they would face massive fines from both the US and EU not because Russians can't afford it. Another country has had 17% interest rates do you know who it was? Were/are they a banana republic?

You live in a fantasy world where worthless paper can buy valuable goods simply by the Crown's authority. Unfortunately other countries don't have to accept worthless paper. That is a f ate suffered by the poor locals. Once they have received enough of the worthless paper, they throw their government out. Other countries just stop selling.


No son, I just happen to know how it works, you do not. You have reached your "Dunning-Kruger effect" level as you're incompetent, you don't know you're incompetent because the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognise what a right answer is.

Australia does not employ their fiscal management strategies but that is what Hurricane Jim is recommending.


No, you are saying that I am recommending that. I am not.

--------------------------------------------------

On another note did you people know that the F-35 can't fire its guns until 2019 as the software hasn't been written yet.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/31/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-fire-its-gun-until-2019.html

--------------------------------------------------

and a meme;


https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10897079_778578938897733_2763921361221481663_n.jpg?oh=c5c1bda1694bd664892384b3dcf55adc&oe=55395B5A&__gda__=1430661254_723a9c3d33d81db4c7b6c9200a6895f1
12:06pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4195 posts
our country is prosperous because we have giant holes in the ground exporting riches to other countries which is providing employment and allowing us to buy nice things from other countries. we can't manufacture anything because our wages are too expensive and we have too many prohibitively expensive penalty rates.


Mining contributes only 5.6% to Australia's GDP.
Manufacturing is declining in all western countries purely due to capitalist exploitation of Asia, not because of high wages and penalty rates. Increase employment by moving more wealth to the bottom, so they have more money to spend on products and services.
Increase access to education so we can have more professionals to sell our services internationally.

At the moment, both of those employment growth factors are being hurt by the current government, under the old Reaganomics philosophy of fail, and hurting consumer & business confidence by the doom and gloom of a budget emergency, and a horrific budget.
12:58pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16719 posts

we can't manufacture anything because our wages are too expensive and we have too many prohibitively expensive penalty rates.


Which is why we cannot risk falling too far behind in education and having a service based economy. People should be coming to Australia for R&D, if we gimp our education, both higher and lower, we gimp our future.

I thought Apple stopped selling Apple products in Russia because they had to sell them really cheap there, causing a large disparity in prices and encouraging Russians to sell their cheaper iphones on the international market. Apple doesn't want uncontrolled pricing for its products..


As an aside, I'll give two recent examples of crap government:

1. Recently a child died from drinking unpasteurized bath milk, that is clearly labeled as unsafe to drink. Victoria decided to force farmers to pasteurise the milk, adding to its cost. Many farmers are struggling to pay the bills, unpasteurised bath milk was a good product they could sell that help their bottom line.
Now because of government regulations, this cheap option has been made more expensive, directly hurting the businesses that supply it. Simply because people where unable to read the instructions and ensure the safety of their own children. Yet we can have poisons in the house?

2. Again recently, a friend of a friend was involved in a work-place accident, he received compo (yay) and is unable to work effectively for the remainder of his life. So they guy smartly used his payout to purchase a block of land in a remote area, nice and cheap, and purchased a renovated bus to use as a home, plus a few other bits. This way he could live on the remainder of his payout and minimal income. GREAT.

Except the government decided his house was illegal to live in and have ordered him to remove it. I've seen pictures of the place, it looks quaint, sturdy and safe. Nice little garden and water tank and everything.

I can guarantee you, giving the government more money through taxes will mean they will make more laws to do stupid s*** like the above.

More taxes does not equal better government and better living, the opposite is also true.
01:55pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4196 posts
Yes there is waste in government. there is far more waste in the huge amounts of wealth sitting in the bank accounts of the filthy wealthy, and the $4 billion a qtr profits of the big banks. The profit sent offshore to international economies.
That's the downside of privatization.

It's better to give more money to government, to splash into the community, than for it to be sent offshore, or to an individual's, or a corporation's bank account.
02:09pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38766 posts
we're going to need another political thrad, this one isnt working :(
02:24pm 04/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11465 posts
Yes there is waste in government.

It's better to give more money to government



If Government cant fix Social/Economic problems with 30% of our money
what makes you think they could do better with 40 or 50% ?
Maybe if we gave them less they would have to spend it more prudently.
02:39pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4197 posts


If Government cant fix Social/Economic problems with 30% of our money
what makes you think they could do better with 40 or 50% ?
Maybe if we gave them less they would have to spend it more prudently.


As we've seen with the current government that isn't the case. Cutting funding is hurting the economy more so.
02:46pm 04/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2072 posts
Yes there is waste in government. there is far more waste in the huge amounts of wealth sitting in the bank accounts of the filthy wealthy, and the $4 billion a qtr profits of the big banks. The profit sent offshore to international economies.
That's the downside of privatization.


No that's the downside of globalisation.

It's better to give more money to government, to splash into the community, than for it to be sent offshore, or to an individual's, or a corporation's bank account.


No, it's actually better to not give the government more money. What they need to do is tax less, particularly the real job creators namely small and middle business and run a deficit (say a maximum of 20% {of gross GDP}). This will create jobs and boost the economy. Build infrastructure for the future like FTTH, not 20th Century s*** like roads.

They could also stop unemployment benefits by creating a job guarantee (JG). People on the JG would work in real jobs for minimum wage standards, not look for work on a subsistence benefit. They could still look for work if they choose to. The stigma of unemployment would be removed.


1. Recently a child died from drinking unpasteurized bath milk, that is clearly labeled as unsafe to drink. Victoria decided to force farmers to pasteurise the milk, adding to its cost. Many farmers are struggling to pay the bills, unpasteurised bath milk was a good product they could sell that help their bottom line.

Now because of government regulations, this cheap option has been made more expensive, directly hurting the businesses that supply it. Simply because people where unable to read the instructions and ensure the safety of their own children. Yet we can have poisons in the house?


There is nothing wrong with pasteurised milk for human consumption. The problem doesn't lay with the government but the parents who are responsible for their children. They should be charged with child negligence. This is what occurs when parents abrogate their responsibilities and governments think that they need to step in.

It reminds me of the case in the US where a woman sued a microwave manufacturer because the warning label didn't say you couldn't dry your poodle in it.
04:59pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1844 posts
I'm all over all this bickering. I seriously don't give a duck anymore. I'm just glad I'm alive to breath the fresh air, feel the sun upon my back, look upon my kids at the wonder i helped create.

Perspectives change over your life but one that's remained consistent for me is people do f*****g matter. Ever more now.
05:01pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16720 posts

There is nothing wrong with pasteurised milk for human consumption.


Absolulty, however that isn't the issue. It is was Victorian farmers are now forced to pasteurize the milk they sold that wasn't for human consumption, it was a good cheap product for them to make... to keep them afloat.
It's just another example of governmental over-regulation that hurts business, because of a very small minority.


Another example of over-regultion. A friend on facebook (I know I seem to be full of these stories), has been told they cannot 'fund raise' (they were collecting unwanted canned food and other items to give to the needy) without going through various governmental procedures. One of which is a yearly financial audit or some such. Basically creating a rather large and ongoing barrier to simply helping people out.
It is to stop the odd scammer from pretending to fund raise and then keeping it. So, again, for a small minority, the majority have to suffer. People are giving this stuff away anyway, does it really matter if 10% of fund raisers scam if it means more people can help the needy without stupid amounts of un-needed paper work?
It also creates a business opportunity where someone can run a system where people rate various fund-raisers for honesty and so forth, if Youtube can do it for Cat videos I'm sure some young upstart can do it too. However, it just turns into another example of government over-regulation getting in the way.

The government really needs to be handed a set of sectors where it can meddle in, and stay the f*** out of everything else.


05:26pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
210 posts
I'm just glad I'm alive to breath the fresh air, feel the sun upon my back, look upon my kids at the wonder i helped create.

Perspectives change over your life but one that's remained consistent for me is people do f*****g matter. Ever more now.


wow that's the pretty much the opposite of what my new son makes me feel.

To hell with the world. I can make my own people.
06:03pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
211 posts
For every small allowance that govt makes, like the selling of raw milk, there's going to be at least one ignorant hippie f***wit who kills their kid as a result.

There seems to be a common theme here of the government attempting to legislate to cover every single ignorant f***wit which is pointless and very costly. The problem is that's usually where the votes are.

We need to ban ignorant f***wits from voting and having kids. However, because they're all swinging voters banning them would make elections predictable and pointless so we may as well ban voting.

Democracy simply does not work. It was a joke in ancient Greece because they saw it as giving stupid people control of society, and it's a joke now.
06:17pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1845 posts
Who determines whose smart?
06:25pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16722 posts
What would be interesting is if different professional backgrounds of politicians had different weightings for votes based on the bill being passed. So something that changes a science related bill a politician with a degree in science gets 3x the vote.

I dunno, something like that anyway.
06:31pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1846 posts
There are some really theoritically smart people whom have no commonsense.
06:39pm 04/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2073 posts
08:21pm 04/01/15 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
10606 posts
it's sad that in 2015 people will state online that they support Australian unions.


it's like supporting Telstra and hoping that they can hold the NBN FTTN project that Malcolm stupidly handed them recently.


guys... it's 2015
08:26pm 04/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11466 posts
Brothels would go broke if Unions folded.
09:15pm 04/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2074 posts
Brothels would go broke if Unions folded.


As long as men think with their d**** they won't.
10:43pm 04/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
212 posts
it's sad that in 2015 people will state online that they support Australian unions.


Whether 2015 or 1815, unfortunately the logic of the system we live and work in will force wages down to zero without organised workers applying economic and political pressure in the opposite direction. It's nothing personal, just business.

So I too wonder why people support Australian unions rather than an organisation that would apply said pressure.
01:12pm 05/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24777 posts
02:26pm 05/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16725 posts
"UFO Mystery Solved", "Our Teachers Get an F", "summer Swim Fashion"

Lol, people read this?
02:49pm 05/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2075 posts
"UFO Mystery Solved", "Our Teachers Get an F", "summer Swim Fashion"

Lol, people read this?


Only basement dwelling Victorians
04:29pm 05/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1138 posts
http://i.imgur.com/7nsU7Cl.jpg

Must be a Murdoch media conspiracy! What he did WASNT even terrorism!
05:52pm 05/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24778 posts
Only basement dwelling Victorians
You certainly called that one nicely.
06:00pm 05/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2076 posts
07:02pm 05/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24779 posts
Looks to be a lot of clone tool markings surrounding the text.
08:37pm 05/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2077 posts
Looks to be a lot of clone tool markings surrounding the text.


Yeah I don't know but then again I didn't create it. I can say that prior to his arrival they would have been ordered not to bring up pay with him. If someone did then they would be charged with disobeying a direct order and the penalties would be something like forfeiture of pay and allowances, loss of rank and perhaps a stint in MCE.
10:54pm 05/01/15 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4893 posts
Well speaking from experience we were always told when a polly turned up to keep our mouths shut. Putting one on the spot within my unit would have cost you some less than pleasant time doing some really s*** task.
02:54pm 06/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1511 posts
Must be a Murdoch media conspiracy! What he did WASNT even terrorism!


Must be some other basement dwelling moron who isn't being paid. Monis having 'ties' to extremist islamic groups isn't news, its stating the bleeding obvious. In other news I can "reveal" monis had ties to coles and woolworths through a sick need to eat and drink. Should probably ban coles and woolworths after all if you feed a terrorist you're a terrorist.
10:45am 07/01/15 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
252 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Not Relevant
Send Private Message
10:06pm 07/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24788 posts
You're pretty dumb mate.
10:14pm 07/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
391 posts
The motivation behind the attack was its (Charlie Hedbo) long history of mocking religions, in particular Islam.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jH-Fz6nK5hQ/UPWwk7SIA5I/AAAAAAAAQhU/XNmg3r_1mjc/s400/charlie-hebdo-naked-mohamed.jpg
The gun man spoke French perfectly ... claiming to be Al-Qaida.


This is just the living end when will the politicians stand up to these fcn deranged grotesques? how long do we have to turn the other cheek and pretend "these peoples" that live in our midst are our friends.
Shooting the messenger is an outrage,i think it's time for all musicians to sing a song of devastation and war Al-Qaida deserve to be removed from the table.
03:19am 08/01/15 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
253 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
09:07am 08/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2081 posts
One can only fight evil with humour.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6wZOY8CMAA_b6v.jpg
12:56pm 08/01/15 Permalink
Jim
UK
13597 posts
happy little miners for gina
02:54pm 08/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2082 posts
Some of you may doubt the validity of what I've said about Monetary Sovereigns on previous pages. The fact is that it's not about me fighting infi, it's more about debunking they myths that politicians swear by.
10:13am 10/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22203 posts
i knew you would post that article. Money printers unite!
10:34am 10/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1550 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Dumb
Send Private Message
12:42pm 10/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11478 posts
haha the Climate Coalition looking shaky

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/queensland-election-2015-labor-support-coal-despite-climate-warning

I guess that means the Greens wont be sharing preferences with Labor ???
04:05pm 10/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2084 posts
i knew you would post that article. Money printers unite!


You never comprehend what it's about only throw the usual lolbertarian three word catch phrase, how about you actually post something legitimate. Something to actually counter my points.


BTW AG if you're going to nuke for dumb then perhaps you can nuke his for imbecility.
11:05pm 10/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22205 posts
Money is not wealth in and of itself even if the government says so. It is a representation of wealth by consent of the people and the market. The government by issuing its own monopoly money to buy up human labor and goods when that money is not backed by any tangible wealth of its own i.e. Taxes or gold reserves means the money has no inherent value and the recipient will not want to receive it.

Why the hell would I want monopoly money from the government for the goods I manufacture, if they are not backed by taxes or other inbound revenue? The money has just been made up. And if the government alternatively wants to buy 100 houses when only 10 are available why would I want to sell to a government who I know is simply printing money? I would look to trade because I need real goods not paper.

Alternatively, why would I want to accept payment for goods I manufacture as a foreign exporter when I know the government offers this worthless monopoly money for payment of which I can only use it to buy goods in their country. I will quickly figure out that a government using unbacked currency to buy goods on its domestic market will also be driving up domestic prices as the local ask for more of their worthless currency to compensate for the risk of accepting it.

This is what has happened in Russia. Apple stopped selling their products in Russia because inflation had gotten out of control and thus they could not control the retail pricing of their products to ensure appropriate profits. Furthermore why would Apple want Roubles which are losing value every day. Luxury goods sellers were sold out of all of their stock in one day after interest rates went up because locals knew either a) new shipments for these goods would be far more expensive or b) foreign brands would stop selling in Russia. Russia is screwed because one of the major ways they back their currency is through oil revenue which has halved in just 3 months, on top of crippling sanctions which limits Russian company's abilities to trade internationally - once again limiting demand for their currency.

Why did Russia jack up their interest rates? because they want foreign investors to buy their government bonds and offer a higher rate of return than other countries also competing for spare global investment capital. Why didn't they print more money to solve their woes and employ their citizens.... (WTF?!) hahah they should have taken Hurricane Jim's advice...

fiat currency is a confidence trick which means when a country stops manufacturing goods that other countries want its currency will quickly becoem worthless. A government which thinks it can get richer by printing more money just drives up inflation and debt. The chooks eventually come home to roost. if a government wants to feed its citizens worethless paper, the leaders will eventually have their heads chopped off.
11:24pm 10/01/15 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
338 posts

Low and behold : http://www.news.com.au/national/islam-you-have-a-very-serious-problem/story-e6frfkp9-1227178806993

My views are now mainstream!

Let's hope this issue is finally dealt with in a bipartisan fashion and not the usual mindless opposition.

It's gonna take a brave prime minister to challenge the perceived fear of mainstream Islamic backlash.


10:06am 11/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24794 posts
newsdotcomdotau, providing confirmation bias to dumb people with terrible opinions since... whenever.
10:12am 11/01/15 Permalink
EdG
Ballarat, Victoria
10 posts


Mate, you're going a bit too far. Look around you.. is anything different since Labour was in power? Did you really notice anything change? Disowning family members because they vote Liberal? Seriously.. there are more important things in life than politics. At the end of the day, you hope that your government implements some decent social policy that might benefit your children someday. I think generally, all governments, labour or liberal, will implement some decent policies where the main aim is to benefit people. Cutting back welfare? Might seem bad but in the long run it will make people more dependant. It will stimulate the economy as people will be looking for more jobs, creating more work and being more entrepreneurial. HECS - free education at a massive cost to the government. All of these policies are designed to assist. Politics isn't everything. It's really not that much at all.

Moral - Don't be the guy in the family who puts politics higher than personal relationships. Who gives a s*** if they think dole bludgers should go and work? Would they help a dying person on the side of the road? Are they loving, kind people? Probably. And aren't these the qualities you should be looking for in people? Lovingness? That's all that counts. Who cares who they vote for. Get over yourself and go to christmas you loser.


F*** that. I'd disown them for being creationists. They probably don't believe in Human Influence on Climate Change. In my personal opinion, people who do not at least consider that the ammount of coal we burn and land we clear without re-planting is a POTENTIAL PROBLEM that CAN BE AVOIDED (with little to no cost to our own personal comfort) are DANGEROUS and should not be any positions of power or responsibility.
11:53am 11/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1567 posts

Low and behold : http://www.news.com.au/national/islam-you-have-a-very-serious-problem/story-e6frfkp9-1227178806993

My views are now mainstream!

Let's hope this issue is finally dealt with in a bipartisan fashion and not the usual mindless opposition.

It's gonna take a brave prime minister to challenge the perceived fear of mainstream Islamic backlash.




Should Christians have to apologise for Anders Brievek?

Should John Howard apologise for featuring in Brievik's manifesto?
01:25pm 11/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1144 posts



Should Christians have to apologise for Anders Brievek?

Should John Howard apologise for featuring in Brievik's manifesto?


If there was was hundreds of Christian terrorist attacks in the past few years and if The majority of the Christian community refused to recognize that there Is a huge violent extremist political movement within their religion? - Yes.
01:39pm 11/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1852 posts
^ you mean like the Iraq war, WMD, George W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, D*** Cheney and co?
03:18pm 11/01/15 Permalink
Taipan
USA
4894 posts
I dont recall those things being under the banner of Christianity. Politically motivated sure, economically yeah i can see that or even government toadies doing the bidding of big business. But i havent seen Christians hitting the streets screaming for a holy christian war against people in the middle east.

Dont get me wrong i have no doubt their are pinheads that would actually support such a thing however i dont believe it was the driving force behind any of it. A*******s wanting to line their pockets is more like it.
03:45pm 11/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
216 posts
Money is not wealth in and of itself even if the government says so. It is a representation of wealth by consent of the people and the market. The government by issuing its own monopoly money to buy up human labor and goods when that money is not backed by any tangible wealth of its own i.e. Taxes or gold reserves means the money has no inherent value and the recipient will not want to receive it.

Why the hell would I want monopoly money from the government for the goods I manufacture, if they are not backed by taxes or other inbound revenue? The money has just been made up. And if the government alternatively wants to buy 100 houses when only 10 are available why would I want to sell to a government who I know is simply printing money? I would look to trade because I need real goods not paper.

Alternatively, why would I want to accept payment for goods I manufacture as a foreign exporter when I know the government offers this worthless monopoly money for payment of which I can only use it to buy goods in their country. I will quickly figure out that a government using unbacked currency to buy goods on its domestic market will also be driving up domestic prices as the local ask for more of their worthless currency to compensate for the risk of accepting it.

This is what has happened in Russia. Apple stopped selling their products in Russia because inflation had gotten out of control and thus they could not control the retail pricing of their products to ensure appropriate profits. Furthermore why would Apple want Roubles which are losing value every day. Luxury goods sellers were sold out of all of their stock in one day after interest rates went up because locals knew either a) new shipments for these goods would be far more expensive or b) foreign brands would stop selling in Russia. Russia is screwed because one of the major ways they back their currency is through oil revenue which has halved in just 3 months, on top of crippling sanctions which limits Russian company's abilities to trade internationally - once again limiting demand for their currency.

Why did Russia jack up their interest rates? because they want foreign investors to buy their government bonds and offer a higher rate of return than other countries also competing for spare global investment capital. Why didn't they print more money to solve their woes and employ their citizens.... (WTF?!) hahah they should have taken Hurricane Jim's advice...

fiat currency is a confidence trick which means when a country stops manufacturing goods that other countries want its currency will quickly becoem worthless. A government which thinks it can get richer by printing more money just drives up inflation and debt. The chooks eventually come home to roost. if a government wants to feed its citizens worethless paper, the leaders will eventually have their heads chopped off.




You either didn't read or didn't understand the article and its content. At times you either agree it, repeat its points, or your understanding of things is completely backwards.

The reality already is that the government uses the rate of inflation as the primary limit on its expenditure. Also, the claim of what money represents - the economy; a function of labour and capital, as they say- is pretty close to what you initially said, but you twisted things to the point where you claimed that the extra money is both worthless (monopoly money) and a source of inflation, when really it's either/or.... So yeah you achieved the impossible. Well done!

You said that money is a representation of wealth... nice. And the sky is a representation of space. Wealth is a measure of economic activity - labour x capital, which is also where you get your taxes. So what's wrong with the government skipping all the middle-men and going straight to financing labour x capital, from which money, wealth, taxes (profits?) are derived? The problem you have is purely ideological.

The government already prints money (RBA does leg work) and aims for 2-4% inflation. The question is how much they should print.

If the private economy recedes, inflation will diminish with it and leave room for government expenditure. This is not controversial.

The government does not control interest rates and the body that does, the RBA, which is independent in this matter, is another separate limit.

The main point in all this is that inflation already is the primary determinant of government spending and money printing - it's a reality check.

If you, like most others, want to see the government as something that can only feed off the private economy and provide support, then fine. But the reasons are ideological. So how many consecutive years of private economy recession do we have to have before we can admit that the idea behind it all might be a bit off?

10% unemployment? 20%? another great depression at 33%?
03:45pm 11/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22206 posts
^ you mean like the Iraq war, WMD, George W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, D*** Cheney and co?


Please explain how any of that was done in the name of extremist Christian ideology. This will be fun to watch.
03:48pm 11/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1568 posts

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

The right in the usa is full of fundy Christians.
04:20pm 12/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11485 posts
Whats the deal with the Medicare Rebate ?
If you go to the Dr for less than ten minutes you dont get the full rebate but if you go for more than ten minutes you do ?

I WANT THE TRuTH
12:40pm 14/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22214 posts
The rebate is what the GP gets. If the visit is less than 10 mins (previously 6 mins) they get a smaller rebate. The GP can then charge extra for non-concession holders.
02:23pm 14/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1571 posts

Luckily our most trusted news source has the details.

http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/stories/2015/01/13/4161640.htm


03:43pm 14/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2087 posts
06:11pm 14/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22215 posts
I know... These damn unions.
06:33pm 14/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1146 posts
The left in a nutshell.
06:54pm 14/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24799 posts
One moron who doesn't know how to manage and one clueless shut in who has never worked in his life. They both don't like unions. Colour me surprised.
07:38pm 14/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4213 posts
I'm curious how a basement dweller could hate on unions. Generally it's business owners or people who are in management, that lack the empathy for the working class.
So maybe brool & faceman should tell us what they do for a living to clear that up abit..

For me, i work in a trade for the banks, and without unions, life would be pretty s***. Imagine working all year long without sick leave, annual leave, and employers having all the power as to what they pay you.
In run of the mill jobs, you don't have the negotiating power to market yourself for a higher wage. And these jobs are as necessary to society as any other professional job.
The argument from the right will be, if you don't like it, educate yourself, become more of an asset to a business.
They fail to see that the blue collar worker is essential, as is their well being.

Without unions, our standard of living would be much lower than it is.
11:32pm 14/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24800 posts
The problem with asking brool a question like that is he's a compulsive narcissistic liar who will come up with some bogus bootstrap bulls*** that makes him seem like a working class hero.

The truth is he is a full spectrum loser who has given up on life. His sole purpose and only reason for living is to try and make other people as lonely and miserable as he is. Oh, and the occasional trip to SE Asia where he pays children to have sex with him.
12:57am 15/01/15 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38822 posts
haha
08:00am 15/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16767 posts

Imagine working all year long without sick leave, annual leave, and employers having all the power as to what they pay you.


This is on the assumption that the employer has a limitless supply of specifically skilled workers that can do your job. Many bosses I've talked to would rather pay a skilled person more, then lose them for a potentially worse person.
09:30am 15/01/15 Permalink
StopShootingMe
Brisbane, Queensland
3634 posts
Unions gained us a lot of the conditions we now take for granted, like weekends and sane working hours. Most of those gains took place a long time ago. But in my industry, the unions, most notably the Seamans' Union of Australia succeeded by the Maritime Union of Australia, have also helped to bury us (it's worth pointing out here that, contrary to what the media often suggests, there is more than one union in this industry; the officers and engineers have their own unions, they're just a lot quieter than the MUA).

Some absolutely astounding s*** went down from the 80s through to the early 2000s, rendering us hugely uncompetitive in a global industry where it's very easy to replace an Australian flagged ship with one under a flag of convenience. The conditions we work under are very generous, but Australian seafarers were and still are notorious for being comparatively unproductive, far more expensive and far more prone to industrial action when compared to overseas counterparts.

My company just shed two more ships, the total Australian blue water fleet is down to less than twenty real ships and is shrinking fast. And the old guard of the unions don't give a s***; they stand to get big redundancy payouts and in many cases are approaching retirement age, the young guys in the industry, who weren't involved with the excesses of the past few decades, will get shafted and don't stand to get big payouts on the way out the door. While all this is very obvious to all of us in the industry, it's not stopping the same s*** from happening again.

The tugs in Port Hedland (my company again) have recently gone on strike to get better pay and conditions. The existing conditions were better than 200k per annum for the master and chief engineer, six months paid leave per year (FIFO to your home port), company car and phone, company-provided accommodation in Port Hedland while you're at work. They decided this wasn't enough. Fair Work approved strike action (the mind f*****g boggles), so they're getting a pay rise and annual leave in addition to the six months a year they already had. The General Purpose Hand (think deckhand with two weeks training) is aiming to get 70% of master's wages for what is essentially unskilled labour. They're getting this because Port Hedland port authority, the miners and the WA government can't afford to have the flow of iron ore out of the Pilbara stop, not because anybody, including the tug crew think they've actually earned it.

So the tug crews believe in the free market when it suits them, I wonder if they'll still be believers when the market finds a way to replace them all with far cheaper labour. Personally I think they should all have been s***canned, I know there're people in my industry who would do the job for the existing pay. But then they'd be labeled "scabs" by the unions.
11:13am 15/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16768 posts
What do they do for a deck hand to get paid d $140,000??
11:18am 15/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1147 posts
I'm curious how a basement dweller could hate on unions. Generally it's business owners or people who are in management, that lack the empathy for the working class.
So maybe brool & faceman should tell us what they do for a living to clear that up abit..


Well if you stopped focusing on Fpots trolls and actually read my posts, you would know. I'v mentioned it previously.

I work for a manufacturing company. Unlike your warped view of the world it isn't a "evil corporation earning those evil profits and taking any chance to screw us employees over" The CEO of the company is well aware that he would be absolutely screwed if he f***ed his employees over. His employees are key to his companies success. So one of our companies values is "win:win" If the company wins, we win and that's the way it should be. It's a two way street.

We have the AMWU coming to our work place all the time trying to get us all to sign up. Desperately trying to convince us we are being f***ed over and that we are ENTITLED to more of the "pie", basically he wants us to pull a greedy "F*** YOU, HAVENT GOT MINE" because if we do that, and we are union members, the union gets more money in fee's. Luckily only 1 person has signed up and everyone else has said no. The Unions are simply a third party money making enterprise that solely exists to be paid to care about your employment. They put on this disguise that they are some nice charity genuinely looking after you, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

For me, i work in a trade for the banks, and without unions, life would be pretty s***. Imagine working all year long without sick leave, annual leave, and employers having all the power as to what they pay you.
In run of the mill jobs, you don't have the negotiating power to market yourself for a higher wage. And these jobs are as necessary to society as any other professional job.
The argument from the right will be, if you don't like it, educate yourself, become more of an asset to a business.
They fail to see that the blue collar worker is essential, as is their well being.

Without unions, our standard of living would be much lower than it is.


For me, i work in a trade for the banks, and without unions, life would be pretty s***. Imagine working all year long without sick leave, annual leave, and employers having all the power as to what they pay you.


Why do you think you are entitled to be paid more than you are worth in terms of employment skills? If you are valuable to a company, you will be paid a decent wage.
.
The argument from the right will be, if you don't like it, educate yourself, become more of an asset to a business.

Exactly right. Stop making excuses.

They fail to see that the blue collar worker is essential, as is their well being.

And what i said can be applied to blue collar workers as well. Blue collar work requires skills etc too. Employers need to pay their workers a decent wage otherwise they will have no employees and will go bust. It's that simple.

Without unions, our standard of living would be much lower than it is.


Rubbish and this leads back to your warped reality. Union membership in the last 10 years has massively declined due to people waking up. Wages have still been increasing.
11:29am 15/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4215 posts

This is on the assumption that the employer has a limitless supply of specifically skilled workers that can do your job. Many bosses I've talked to would rather pay a skilled person more, then lose them for a potentially worse person.


Not the case in my industry. When the banks are involved efficiency seems to go out the window. Despite my work ethic i have to rely on the union for pay rises.
Not enough jobs going around to just swap employers unfortunately.
11:35am 15/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4216 posts


Rubbish and this leads back to your warped reality. Union membership in the last 10 years has massively declined due to people waking up. Wages have still been increasing.


The union movement has slowed because we have reached a level that is a reasonable balance for the worker & business. All that is required now is to maintain fair pay increases to CPI. You think business is looking out for you? hell no.

Unions haven't increased the wellbeing of the population as a whole? you're just in denial and you know it.

You tell me how you'd like to work without holidays, sick leave, weekends off, etc etc.

Yet, look! businesses are still operating, they're still getting huge profits.
11:40am 15/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1573 posts
09:09pm 15/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16774 posts


Rubbish and this leads back to your warped reality. Union membership in the last 10 years has massively declined due to people waking up. Wages have still been increasing.



'waking up' probably isn't the term best used. People don't see the relevance in them anymore. They once played an important role.
A role that will probably be required 10 years from now when unions have no members and no force at all, and the pendulum swings back.
09:48pm 15/01/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20312 posts
My missus works for a food production business as a HR manager and the union is always trying to get the workers to join up, they will blatantly lie about the details of the EBA to the eployees to make it sound like they get f***ed and need the unions, they are always up to some dodgey s*** to try and remain relevant and the funny thing is the company looks after the employees better than most it is a great place to work. Unions are relevant in some professions probably but i would say mostly pretty irrelevant these days.

They are a good money making scheme for the people involved, people pay you money for not that much in return.
09:52pm 15/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2088 posts
I don't have an opinion of whether someone should or should not be a member of a union.

Though I will say that going to Bali is not going "overseas" it's where the white trash of Australia go to say they've "been overseas". A good portion of my overseas travel has been at tax payers expense where I;

Saw exotic places
Met unusual people
and shot them.
01:16pm 16/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11489 posts
if you get a chance check out Jon Stewart Vs Marc Rubio - Daily Show, who was almost Romneys running mate. Best interview/discussion of the year so far. Pretty gutsy for Rubio to go on there.
12:30am 18/01/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15758 posts
American comic obviously, but works well anywhere I reckon.

http://i.imgur.com/7yNVFQD.jpg

Especially with those ears! :D
12:55pm 18/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4218 posts
In Abbott's case, those documents on his desk are directly from the IPA.
12:59pm 18/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22218 posts
Not true, he has refused to repeal section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act.
01:12pm 18/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1578 posts
Am I the only one that thinks this government uses public outrage as a sounding board as to what horrible policy they can get through?
04:14pm 18/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22219 posts
That's how politics works. Precisely.
04:37pm 18/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4222 posts
Nah it isn't how it works. Only if you're incompetent.
They know the electorate doesn't want these policies. They're trying to ram everything through that IPA & News corp want.
Labor at least has an agenda to lead on the behalf of the people, instead of business & minority groups.
04:57pm 18/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1150 posts
Yeh the IPA control the government magically.
05:29pm 18/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22221 posts
Its a Murdoch media IPA conspiracy.

It just only happens every second government.
05:33pm 18/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24804 posts
I really don't know a whole lot about that IPA thing. Some libertarian magazine or something. I still know it's a worthless pile of s*** though. infi likes it.

Trying to claim some sort of unfounded Murdoch media conspiracy is peak level dumb, though. It's documented clearly, the motive for them is there and the results of it are clearly at work with the two posters before me. The sole reason it exists, and also the sole reason it succeeds, is that it provides confirmation bias to people with s***** opinions. I think when morons see something written in print or even published on a what they believe to be classy website it helps reinforce their really terrible views to a point where they're actually confident enough to utter them out loud. Perhaps even to angrily defend them in their own special impotent way. I'm not sure if it's breeding new garbage, or simply allowing pre-existing garbage to come out of the woodwork. Someone go find that out for me.
08:49pm 18/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4225 posts
11:23pm 18/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
397 posts
Here is an odd thing over the past few years 13 Australians have been executed in foreign lands and soon the list may grow to 15 and there has not been so much as a peep of protest by a single solitary person.
As a general rule of thumb the omg hippies and the raving rent a crowd usually come out of the woodwork in protest so far not a peep,it could be that because the Abbott government is not doing anything then the media remains silent, after all the media is supposed to report news not create it if the Abbott government is quiet the media is as well.
04:40am 19/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2091 posts
Here is an odd thing over the past few years 13 Australians have been executed in foreign lands and soon the list may grow to 15 and there has not been so much as a peep of protest by a single solitary person.

As a general rule of thumb the omg hippies and the raving rent a crowd usually come out of the woodwork in protest so far not a peep,it could be that because the Abbott government is not doing anything then the media remains silent, after all the media is supposed to report news not create it if the Abbott government is quiet the media is as well.


Well they are spread pretty thin what with all the protests they have to attend. The ABC has been reporting on the imminent executions for nearly a week but they are biased.

I'm more concerned with Abbots obsession with his Medical Research Future Fund;


• The national health reform agreement, signed by all states and the commonwealth in 2011. (This cuts $1.8bn from public hospital funding, starting this year. Money to be put into the medical research future fund.)

• The dental flexible grants program. (Cuts amount to $229m, starting this year. This program was to help dentists set up in outer metropolitan and rural areas. Money goes to the Medical Research Future Fund.)

• Adult public dental services. (Cuts equal $390m, starting this year, by deferring a national partnership agreement signed with the states, which was supposed to help clear the 400,000-strong waiting lists for public dental care. Money goes to the Medical Research Future Fund.)

• Improving public hospital services. (Cuts of $201m, starting next year, from money that was supposed to help the states reduce waiting times at public hospitals. Money goes to the Medical Research Future Fund.)

• National partnership on preventive health. (Cuts of $367m, starting this year, from agreement that was supposed to fund preventive health education programs, such as anti-smoking campaigns. The government is also saving $6m by abolishing the national preventive health agency. Money from both goes to the Medical Research Future Fund.)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/19/hospital-cuts-begin-july-tony-abbott-admits

Then there is his obsession with private education;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10922522_802339919801895_1699265477148685623_n.png?oh=b3600fb719d702ef777abb3d2123c51b&oe=555F53B0&__gda__=1432688136_f518b6f526d3e20d7f568bab00b20900
11:17am 19/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1151 posts
I really don't know a whole lot about that IPA thing. Some libertarian magazine or something.


It's a free market and liberty think-tank. They release research papers, but according to the frothers, they somehow magically control the government because the government implements some policies that they also support due to sharing a free market based ideology.

I still know it's a worthless pile of s*** though. infi likes it.


Well you should other people(like vash for example) who are ACTUALLY convinced they control the government. They are the equivalent of Getup! But less dumb.
12:33pm 19/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24805 posts
Yeah not really interested in your opinion on anything basement boy so perhaps you should just save your breath.
12:46pm 19/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1580 posts

Well you should other people(like vash for example) who are ACTUALLY convinced they control the government. They are the equivalent of Getup! But less dumb.


lol here's some of the brain farts coming out of the IPA's wish list.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/09/06/institute-of-liberal-party-policy-what-the-ipa-will-get-from-abbott/

- End public funding to political parties
- End mandatory disclosures on political donations
- Abolish the Foreign Investment Review Board
- Break up the ABC and put out to tender each individual function
- Privatise the CSIRO

What a bunch of nutters. I like it how they want to end disclosures on political dontations. Basically so they can be even more murky than they currently are.

National ICAC would be nice.
01:06pm 19/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1152 posts

Yeah not really interested in your opinion on anything basement boy so perhaps you should just save your breath.


Don't care, you'll get it anyway, Paul Blart :)


lol here's some of the brain farts coming out of the IPA's wish list.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/09/06/institute-of-liberal-party-policy-what-the-ipa-will-get-from-abbott/

- End public funding to political parties
- End mandatory disclosures on political donations
- Abolish the Foreign Investment Review Board
- Break up the ABC and put out to tender each individual function
- Privatise the CSIRO


Sounds good to me, if only the "Liberal" party were actually economically liberal.
06:35pm 19/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22222 posts
I actually like the disclosure of political funding. I expected the IPA would too as capitalism works best with transparent information too.

The great thing as a member if the IPA I can write to them and they respond to me :)
07:12pm 19/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
402 posts
Apparently Joe Hockey believes children already born will have a life expectancy of 150 years.

http://aliljoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/fountain-of-youth.jpg.

Mr hocky's re-birthing solution.

I have heard of some crazy excuses for getting a bit more tax from people but this really takes the cake,another sign that the Abbott Government really do have a few roo's loose in the top paddock.

I am not sure what he means by "already born" apart from the obvious, is he including all children or just "future children in his imagination" .
05:34am 20/01/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15768 posts
hahah 150, that's new
10:09am 20/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2093 posts
hahah 150, that's new


Yeah because you would expect there would be many who die at 145 or 140 or 130 or 125.......
10:20am 20/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16792 posts
Because this government (and previous ones) have been remarkably accurate with all their forward estimates... O wait..

I no longer support any government initiative which relies on forward estimates supplied by any internal government departments. Only when the data is presented by an unbiased external entity, preferably that was unpaid by the government will I begin to support it.

Australian governments have continuously shown that they greatly underestimate or overestimate forward estimates, generally whichever is more favourable to their political agenda. I'm not sure which is worse, deliberately misleading the public or simple ineptitude. Either way, forward estimates cannot be trusted, regardless of the government in power.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 10:34:18 20/Jan/15
10:29am 20/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1153 posts
Howard and Costello's prediction that we would be struggling to pay for things such as medicare and pensions due to our aging population was correct. Fast forward to 2014 and we are in the middle of it.

Too bad we have an opposition that has managed to convince everyone that we have an endless amount of money to fund an unsustainable medicare and budget and a Government too scared to do anything about it because a loud screaming minority are loud.
02:40pm 20/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4227 posts

Funny how the mining & carbon taxes were paying all the expenses of newstart, and they've cut it.
This government isn't serious about fixing the budget, it's entirely ideological policy.

This is an excellent suggestion on budget repair:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/nine-ways-to-fix-the-federal-budget-20150120-12u1zu.html


03:16pm 20/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11497 posts
but couples with two children earning annual incomes above $110,000 still receive Family Tax Benefit Part A


good lord, $100 000 in the kitty and still with their hand out to Government ?

Get rid of Income Tax and Payroll Tax lift GST.
K THX BAI
03:41pm 20/01/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15772 posts

Howard and Costello's prediction that we would be struggling to pay for things such as medicare and pensions due to our aging population was correct. Fast forward to 2014 and we are in the middle of it.

This smells like bulls*** to me.

http://i.imgur.com/01W8jEt.png

Had to scroll quite a bit to find us on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_health_expenditure_covered_by_government

http://i.imgur.com/KDloZpa.png

Looks TO ME like our total cost of health care is middling to low as a portion of GDP, and better yet the Government pays a relatively low portion of it via Medicare (ALP policy) due to income-based progressive incentives to acquire private health insurance (Coalition policy). It also looks like we're getting good health outcomes too!

IF the Oracles in the Howard Government were indeed super suppositories of wisdom and we now face a looming Medicare budgetary crisis that they foresaw ... then why the f*** did they structurally cut taxes so much from the core stream, income taxation? Seems amazingly irresponsible? Short term populist politics maybe even?
03:53pm 20/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22223 posts
Because this government (and previous ones) have been remarkably accurate with all their forward estimates... O wait..

I no longer support any government initiative which relies on forward estimates supplied by any internal government departments. Only when the data is presented by an unbiased external entity, preferably that was unpaid by the government will I begin to support it.

Australian governments have continuously shown that they greatly underestimate or overestimate forward estimates, generally whichever is more favourable to their political agenda. I'm not sure which is worse, deliberately misleading the public or simple ineptitude. Either way, forward estimates cannot be trusted, regardless of the government in power.


> wants the government involved in regulating everything

> trusts the government with nothing
04:03pm 20/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16796 posts

Howard and Costello's prediction that we would be struggling to pay for things such as medicare and pensions due to our aging population was correct.


Dont be stupid Brool, we aren't struggling to pay for anything you brain washed fool, certainly not due to 'our aging population'. Both governments were grossly incorrect about tax income forward estimates and both made commitments based on that. Furthermore this current government cut off revenue streams both before and after it made spending commitments without securing a significant income stream to compensate.

04:05pm 20/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24809 posts
> wants the government involved in regulating everything
strawman argument.
04:14pm 20/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16798 posts
I can't help but think this ISIS uprising is a canary in the mine sort of deal. I have a feeling that part of the lure of the young to ISIS is not just because of any religious reasons, but because its a rise against the status quo. It is a convenient excuse to smash stuff up.

Oxfarm calculates the richest 1% will own 50% of the entire worlds wealth, as soon as 2016. As little as 80 people can own more wealth than 3.5 billion people. Think about that.



With the growing dissent with the current political system in west, combined with increasing youth unemployment and surging cost of living, people are going to get the s**** more and more. As causes around the world erupt, people of various backgrounds will start flocking to them.
Will we have a western version of ISIS, instead of being fueled by a religious background it will instead be fueled by a lack of wealth/equality? Who knows, I do know that if the world continues down this path, s*** will get real.
04:23pm 20/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
875 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Disregards facts, adds nothing but irrelevant ignorance to the conversation
Send Private Message
10:42pm 20/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24810 posts
I like the way you'll just selectively ignore posts so you can continue prattling away undisturbed with your inane bulls***.
11:03pm 20/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16801 posts
If trickle down economics works, why is that as we see the poverty-rich gap widen, meaning the rich are getting wealthier quicker than the poor and yet unemployment rises?

Infi and his ideological friends, continually puts forth (in various ways) the notion that rich people create jobs. Therefor we shouldn't tax them and let them create jobs. Well wouldn't that mean that as rich people get richer more jobs get created? The evidence suggests that as rich people get richer, less jobs are created..
12:16pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1581 posts
If trickle down economics works, why is that as we see the poverty-rich gap widen, meaning the rich are getting wealthier quicker than the poor and yet unemployment rises?

Infi and his ideological friends, continually puts forth (in various ways) the notion that rich people create jobs. Therefor we shouldn't tax them and let them create jobs. Well wouldn't that mean that as rich people get richer more jobs get created? The evidence suggests that as rich people get richer, less jobs are created..


That is why we should have more efficient taxation systems such as a wealth/capital tax instead of income and regressive consumption taxes.

By 2016 the richest 1% will own more than everyone else combined.
12:29pm 21/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
876 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Complaining about post removal
Send Private Message
12:57pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1041 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Quotes removed post
Send Private Message
01:00pm 21/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1517 posts
Wouldn't Romney have been doing exactly the same as obama had he won?
01:15pm 21/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2094 posts
It defies reasoning that an American meme would be logical in an Australian Political thread. BTW Obama has low popularity in the US so someone can't even get their facts straight.

If trickle down economics works, why is that as we see the poverty-rich gap widen, meaning the rich are getting wealthier quicker than the poor and yet unemployment rises?

Infi and his ideological friends, continually puts forth (in various ways) the notion that rich people create jobs. Therefor we shouldn't tax them and let them create jobs. Well wouldn't that mean that as rich people get richer more jobs get created? The evidence suggests that as rich people get richer, less jobs are created..


Trickle down has never created a job because it doesn't create demand. A glass is never filled from the top, one must pour from the top and fill the bottom first.
01:46pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4231 posts
That isn't ironic at all. Millionaires don't create jobs, business does, and a strong middle class.
01:54pm 21/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22224 posts
trickle down does work, just ask any economy that has embraced capitalism. once the government tries to control price signals or the flow of capital in an economy it will instantly strangle the goose the lays the golden egg.

keep on pretending bureaucrats make everything better though! it's hilarious to read.

A glass is never filled from the top, one must pour from the top and fill the bottom first.


lol wtf is this analogy... you keep astounding me with your irrelevance. production occurs by someone first owning means of production you dolt. you think jobs comes from non-existent employers. haha
01:58pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4232 posts
Any country that fully embraces pure forms of capitalism are doomed as wealth trickles to the top, which is a doorstop on the economy.
Regulation is the only thing keeping that from happening.
02:06pm 21/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11502 posts
That isn't ironic at all. Millionaires don't create jobs, business does, and a strong middle class.


Theres no middle class in VashLand.
Everyone is working class arent they ?

02:23pm 21/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
403 posts
11 million Americans currently rely on Social Security Disability Insurance the entitlement program for disabled workers will run out of cash by 2016.

The government (American) has paid out more than it has taken in every year since 2009. If this pattern continues and the program runs out of money by 2016, millions of Americans collecting disability will see their benefits cut.
.

Well this looks like the greatest catastrophe since the great depression,and i wonder how long it will take T Abbott and Co to go ha see i told you so.
02:29pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16802 posts

trickle down does work, just ask any economy that has embraced capitalism.


I wonder what the worlds poor people think of that. 8 people infi. Eight people who will have more wealth than the total wealth of 3.5 BILLION people. Trickle down doesn't work, if it did the poverty gap wouldn't be widening.

If this continues, and there is no reason it wont, even your family line will eventually be one of the poor.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 14:47:33 21/Jan/15
02:45pm 21/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1518 posts
What is that gibberish you just posted? Why would Abbott care about an american disability pension?
02:45pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4233 posts


Theres no middle class in VashLand.
Everyone is working class arent they ?



In VashLand everyone is middle class. We don't let people fall into poverty, and the rich have far less wealth.

Of course, in globalisation, this doesn't work because multiple countries will cut corporate & taxes on the rich to attract wealth to that country. This is why the only way it could work is after a global scale economic collapse (which we're headed towards) and we start afresh with a socialist esque model world wide.
Capitalism simply isn't sustainable. I agree that it is excellent for creating prosperity, but then you need to convert to a sustainable model, which is true communism. (USSR was not true communism)

Otherwise, we as a species are f***ed. Wealth & politics is corrupting the climate change movement, and the environment is not a priority. We *need* to sustain the environment or we're just shooting ourselves in the foot.
Capitalism simply does not allow the environment to be looked after. The amazon is fading away, record extinction of species, record consecutive warming of the climate.
03:01pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16803 posts
Actually Capitalism can sustain an environment, provided the people who buy all the things have their demands on environmentally sustainable stuff. Capitalism isn't to blame here, greed of the individual is.
03:09pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4234 posts
Most people don't care about the environment because wealth is all that matters. Materialism doesn't exist in communism.
People will not sacrifice their consumerism for the environment, and that is why Capitalism is to blame.
03:17pm 21/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1519 posts
Materialism doesn't exist in communism.


Except it does.
03:53pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4236 posts


Except it does.


USSR communism, yes. True communism, no
03:54pm 21/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1520 posts
USSR communism, yes. True communism, yes

Fixed.

If you have any material preference for any aspect of your life you have materialist needs. End of discussion.

If you prefer wheat to rice. If you prefer the country to the sea side, if you prefer green to purple you have materialist wants and needs.

Communism can't and won't ever make that otherwise.
03:59pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16804 posts

Materialism doesn't exist in communism.


?? Of course it does. People are different, what makes people happy is different therefor different people want different things.
The availability of these things to fill needs is not equal, therefor some people will have demand for thneeds that outstrip the supply of thneeds. .. BAM! communism broken.
04:10pm 21/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2095 posts
trickle down does work, just ask any economy that has embraced capitalism. once the government tries to control price signals or the flow of capital in an economy it will instantly strangle the goose the lays the golden egg.

keep on pretending bureaucrats make everything better though! it's hilarious to read.



lol wtf is this analogy... you keep astounding me with your irrelevance. production occurs by someone first owning means of production you dolt. you think jobs comes from non-existent employers. haha


Your total lack of comprehension is symptomatic of the lolbertarian mindset. Much the same as your economic credentials. The only time a business model would apply to a government is when it isn't a monetary sovereign such as state and local.

To that extent I will acknowledge that neither side, LNP or Labor politicians, in Australia understand how the Federal Government functions as a monetary sovereign. Although, Wayne Swan did indicate some knowledge of it but backed away when the electorate went all glassy eyed.
04:54pm 21/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24812 posts
trickle down does work, just ask any economy that has embraced capitalism
Holy s***.
05:04pm 21/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22225 posts
Holy s***.


Their standards of living rise while command economies remain in poverty. This is basic stuff.
05:51pm 21/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2096 posts


Their standards of living rise while command economies remain in poverty. This is basic lies.


Corrected for reality


Tell me the command economies in the world and then tell me when Australia was a command economy
07:29pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4237 posts


?? Of course it does. People are different, what makes people happy is different therefor different people want different things.
The availability of these things to fill needs is not equal, therefor some people will have demand for thneeds that outstrip the supply of thneeds. .. BAM! communism broken.


What makes you think that? Food supply wasn't a problem in the USSR. Only when Capitalists within the system blocked supply did it kill untold millions.
for non essentials you wouldn't be able to get them immediately because there is less waste. A worthy sacrifice for sustainability. More incentive to repair existing household items.
Essentials in communism are no issue.
07:53pm 21/01/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20343 posts
dude quit it with the communism s***, it's f*****g ridiculous
08:16pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
222 posts
Most of our material wealth is produced in impoverished countries. It's unequal exchange, plain and simple - we're rich cos they're poor. Forget the economic or political labels, power is power and you don't have any of it. Nor you, nor you, nor YYOOUUUUUUU!!!!111

because you're a pussy.
08:19pm 21/01/15 Permalink
baz
Victoria
801 posts
I think Roonee was made in China.
08:35pm 21/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4239 posts
It's hard to argue for communism when capitalism provides so much at the expense of the environment and less well off. But eventually we'll have to change the system to a sustainable model.
08:52pm 21/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
877 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Not Relevant
Send Private Message
12:17am 22/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
8425 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Not Relevant
Send Private Message
12:30am 22/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1521 posts
What makes you think that? Food supply wasn't a problem in the USSR. Only when Capitalists within the system blocked supply did it kill untold millions.


That is just factually wrong.

link to 1933 soviet famine

The government's forced collectivization of agriculture is considered by some a main reason for the famine


Oh and look in china

link to great chinese famine

Along with collectivization, the central government decreed several changes in agricultural techniques based on the ideas of Soviet pseudoscientist Trofim Lysenko.[12] One of these ideas was close planting, whereby the density of seedlings was at first tripled and then doubled again. The theory was that plants of the same species would not compete with each other. In practice they did, which stunted growth and resulted in lower yields.
My emphasis.

Communism is about as discredited as it's possible to get vash, You might was well say you're an anti vaxer and a flat earther, it's that level of discredited.
07:46am 22/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4240 posts
My emphasis.

Communism is about as discredited as it's possible to get vash, You might was well say you're an anti vaxer and a flat earther, it's that level of discredited.


The Kulaks (capitalists) caused the famine. Because they couldn't gain profit, they burned the crop, causing the deaths of millions.
Th USSR was too government centralised, which isn't really communism. It's meaning has been tainted nowadays.
08:55am 22/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1522 posts
You can't be serious. The CP blamed the Kulaks (horrid capitalists, or in reality farmers who dared be upset about being forced off their farms), but still suppressed the depth of the famine until 1991. Actions of a blameless ideology.

When you're done *literally* pedaling Soviet propaganda maybe you can talk again.

Google "venezuela food shortage", to see how modern mass centralization works.

Its a totally defunct system man. There is literally zero examples of it not ending catastrophically.
09:20am 22/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1584 posts

Why are you idiots attributing failing at farming to communism?

I am pretty sure the communist manifesto doesn't start out, "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of bad crop yields."

Meanwhile thank god we have an unruly senate so that we don't have to deal with becoming a mini united states.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-governments-handling-of-university-and-health-changes-anger-backbench-20150121-12v4z6.html

Independent senator Nick Xenophon said on Wednesday that the government's package was in "a whole lot of trouble" while the Palmer United Party's Glenn Lazarus called on the government to abandon its policies and "move on".

"You can polish a turd for as long as you want, it's always going to be a turd," said Senator Lazarus.


09:28am 22/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1523 posts
Why are you idiots attributing failing at farming to communism?


Because vash is seriously suggesting it as an alternative to what we have now, and Communism and famine walk hand in hand.
09:32am 22/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1861 posts
Famines are not exclusive to communism. I'm not supporting communism nor do I care to indulge in this boring distraction.
09:54am 22/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22228 posts
you posted to say you are not interested? wouldn't you save even more time by just not posting?
10:09am 22/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1862 posts
I thought i couldn't get more bored until you just posted.
10:15am 22/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1524 posts
Famines are not exclusive to communism


Didn't suggest they were. Merely that every time enforced communal farming has been tried it ends in famine.


*edit* Your point is well taken I will stop.
10:50am 22/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16806 posts

"You can polish a turd for as long as you want, it's always going to be a turd," said Senator Lazarus.


Classy.
10:52am 22/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1863 posts
Your point is well taken I will stop.
I'm not having a go at you Pete, I just think it's a rather pointless debate.
11:02am 22/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4252 posts
06:29pm 24/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
223 posts
Why are you idiots attributing failing at farming to communism? I am pretty sure the communist manifesto doesn't start out, "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of bad crop yields."


I'm pretty sure that that manifesto was directed at workers within industrialised economies. Certainly a "proletariat" is an urban, industrial workforce.

Most so-called communist revolutions were about rural peasantries fighting off colonial governments or colonial influence... so they tended to be very nationalistic as well.

There's quite a few examples, but they were always about using the power of the state to develop domestic infrastructure. Both China and Russia went from backwards peasant country to industrialised super power within a few decades. Japan is another good example, but no one calls them communist.

What tends to happen as well is once these countires develop to a point that they can compete internationally, they start leaning towards the free-flow of capital. But never has the free-flow of foreign capital developed a country to this point. Not once.

So it's easy to throw labels around, but the fact is that the label attracted by state control at any point in time or space is more determined by who that states friends are than anything else.
03:03pm 25/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
225 posts
why do they call them weeds if they don't actually do any weeding? Ridiculous.
07:51pm 25/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1589 posts
I'm pretty sure that that manifesto was directed at workers within industrialised economies. Certainly a "proletariat" is an urban, industrial workforce.

Most so-called communist revolutions were about rural peasantries fighting off colonial governments or colonial influence... so they tended to be very nationalistic as well.

There's quite a few examples, but they were always about using the power of the state to develop domestic infrastructure. Both China and Russia went from backwards peasant country to industrialised super power within a few decades. Japan is another good example, but no one calls them communist.

What tends to happen as well is once these countires develop to a point that they can compete internationally, they start leaning towards the free-flow of capital. But never has the free-flow of foreign capital developed a country to this point. Not once.

So it's easy to throw labels around, but the fact is that the label attracted by state control at any point in time or space is more determined by who that states friends are than anything else.


Are you actually from perth becuase while not perfect, it is not a bad analysis.
09:19pm 25/01/15 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
38847 posts
a turd is a pretty good description of most of our current governments policies.

not a very shiny turd either.
09:31am 26/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4262 posts

Haha wow, Tones doesn't let up with his stupidity.


"Social media is kind of like electronic graffiti and I think that in the media, you make a big mistake to pay too much attention to social media. You wouldn’t report what’s sprayed up on the walls on buildings."
http://smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-defends-decision-to-make-prince-philip-a-knight-20150126-12y5ce.html

I ventured onto the daily telegraph comments, and to my amazement the followers weren't blindly defending the decision. The boat is sinking, tones.


01:02pm 26/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16830 posts
Except Graffiti is totally anonymous and written in highly obscure places and tends to be a simple name-tag and is also done by a very very very small % of the population, generally of a rather limited demographic.

Social media on the other hand is practiced by a large portion of the Australian population, generally isn't anonymous and consists of far more than a name-tag. MASSIVE fail from the Prime Minister of this nation. How can he run a country in modern times if he doesn't even approach a casual understanding of the difference between social media and graffiti???


01:41pm 26/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22241 posts
i dont think it is reasonable to compare social media to graffiti at all. the qld election campaign is being waged predominantly on social media.
02:22pm 26/01/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20356 posts
So we made prince phillip a knight or whatever

Is there something wrong tony, like a genuine brain defect or tumor or blood clot that makes him do and say some of the s*** he does

I can't think of any other reason he would do something like that
03:00pm 26/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22242 posts
I literally wtf'd over that
03:03pm 26/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16832 posts
On Australia day, gives the highest non-military honour to a foreigner. What The F***?

04:35pm 26/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4263 posts

The Shovel is sad to announce that it can no longer be a satirical newspaper. Due to the state of current events it has reverted to being a straight news organisation. Readers are not to worry as there will be no change to the overall content.
04:44pm 26/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1159 posts
What a sad day for Greece.

A far left-wing Socialist party full of Vash types has won their elections and is set to lead the country into oblivion. There's a lot of talk about the IPA's point plan in Australia, but here's what a far-left wing 40 point plan looks like which could give us an insight into the future, especially if the Australian Greens get into any kind of power.

http://links.org.au/node/2888

Take a good read

18 + 19. Nationalisation of banks, railroads, airports, mail, water. 16. Increase of subsidies for the unemployed.
17. Fiscal reductions for goods of primary necessity.


The entry point for western civilization will also be its exit. What a morbid reality.
01:37am 27/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22247 posts
That is terrifying. We must always be on the watch for the insidious decay of socialism.

75% tax rate, did they not learn from France?
02:00am 27/01/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15796 posts
75% on incomes over €500k PA.

Will be interesting to see how that works out, if nothing else.
02:20am 27/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
413 posts
Hhahah T Abbott is sly dog give Prince Phillip a title and then in return or so T Abbott hopes, he will get a Knight hood, Sir T Abbott Knight of the realm ,he might get his own light saber.

At this point in proceedings i have come to the realization that Tony Abbot is a simpleton i am no longer concerned about his his ability to lead the nation and there by cause us all untold woe he has descended into the realm of the jester and so now his antics seen in that light are just comical.
03:41am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16838 posts
Funny, I thought Greece got into their troubles partly because of how long people got away with dodging their taxes?
08:45am 27/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2101 posts
Funny, I thought Greece got into their troubles partly because of how long people got away with dodging their taxes?


Well that and giving up being a monetary sovereign.....


meanwhile back at the ranch;

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/10830508_793471597408467_6483253061306524991_o.jpg
08:56am 27/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24829 posts
So judging by infi and brool's alarmist frothing I'm guessing whatever happened in Greece is a good thing?
09:37am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16839 posts
fpot, They are massively radical left party, so almost all their policies will be against Brool and infi's ideologies.

They are doing some rather 'interesting' things:

Increasing tax to 75% for anyone earning over 500,000 euros, Remember France did something similar recently and had to revert it as many high wealth people simply left the country.

They want to add a new tax on financial transactions and luxury goods, so again hitting the high end of town.

They want to increase the minimum wage, again hitting the profits of the wealthy.

So they are doing a triple whammy on the big end of town.

They are also Nationalizing a bunch of soon to be government assets, this will spook investors from investing in Greek infrastructure, will they simply nationalize that too?


Basically they are doing almost everything that a Australian Liberal ideologist believes will lead to a impoverished, unproductive and un-prosperous country. One where the people will wither and die and be rather unhappy.

My question is, if it works, will they change their ideologies? If it doesn't work, will the heavily left people like Vash change theirs? I really hope so.





10:26am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16841 posts
So, is it a good thing? We don't know, only time will tell.

The repercussions of what they are doing could be enormous.
10:27am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16842 posts
Oh, also just to point out, that list Brool posted was from 2012.

What they are actually planning to do soon is this:

http://links.org.au/node/4209

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 10:33:41 27/Jan/15
10:29am 27/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4266 posts
That isn't radical leftist policy, that's just leftist.
And i agree with most of it, except the individual rich income tax. I think that should be something of more a one off tax for a few years, or for whatever period of time to get the country's finances in control.
Those policies are a true budget repair list, rather than just targeting the most vulnerable.

I would like to see those policies here in Australia.

This may just save their economy.
10:36am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16843 posts

That isn't radical leftist policy, that's just leftist.


That list from 2012 is most certainly radical leftist:

Syriza : Coalition of the RADICAL LEFT.

That isn't a budget repair list, that is a build a welfare state list. Most of that list can't be afforded in the long term.

If you look at their 2014 plan you will see a significant portion of that list is absent.


edit: No, also be aware that most of what Syriza plan to do requires that they get a significant moratorium on their foreign debt. If they can't get that, they will have two options: Change their entire plan, or simply refuse to pay it and see what happens.

Germany and friends aren't happy with their plan.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 10:51:39 27/Jan/15
10:45am 27/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4267 posts
Depends on your point of view if thats a good thing or not. A welfare state in my eyes would be better for the country.
Obviously the right had failed them, like it has America, and on its way to destroying Australia too.
10:49am 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16844 posts
It has nothing to do with good or bad. It may initially be good for the people whilst end up being far worse in 15 years time.

I'm interested in how it all turns out, it will certainly be a learning moment for Western civilizations.
10:53am 27/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1528 posts
Yeah I think their plan of writing off debt while demanding access to more of it might run into reasonable opposition.

Also the lowering of tax on heating and diesel while trying to argue they are going to be good for the environment is a little far fetched.

Time will tell I guess.
10:53am 27/01/15 Permalink
konstie
Melbourne, Victoria
2483 posts
Not long until Turnbull. Left and Right will unite in an orgy of words and progress.
11:42am 27/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1160 posts

Basically they are doing almost everything that a Australian Liberal ideologist believes will lead to a impoverished, unproductive and un-prosperous country. One where the people will wither and die and be rather unhappy.

My question is, if it works, will they change their ideologies? If it doesn't work, will the heavily left people like Vash change theirs? I really hope so.


They are basically reverting economic changes that most countries established were necessary for their economomies to have in the 1980's, including left wing government like the Labor Hawke government in Aus.

Their policies have already proven to be a failure in the past, especially in Britain and it took a person like Thatcher to clean it all up. And this answers your second question as well, people like Vash won't change their views even if its black and white in front of them because their views have already proven to be wrong yet they still hold them.

A 75% tax will see a flight of the rich, like it did in France which will then see further loss to the Greek economy because the "rich" won't be spending their dollars there and making investments. It's a lose-lose situation.

It's all about the epic brain fart that taxing people to Oblivion creates prosperity when infact it destroys it.

Oh, also just to point out, that list Brool posted was from 2012.

What they are actually planning to do soon is this:

http://links.org.au/node/4209

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 10:33:41 27/Jan/15


The list is still valid, even though its from 2012. Their new program is sneaky because they are focusing on specific policies while hiding all the other ones listed in their previous point plan that arent attractive.

Either way, it's going to be catastrophic for Greece, and i won't be surprised if there is a mass exodus of the population.

Not long until Turnbull. Left and Right will unite in an orgy of words and progress.


Turnbull is a Classical Liberal, there's nothing "left-wing" about him.
01:15pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16846 posts

The list is still valid, even though its from 2012. Their new program is sneaky because they are focusing on specific policies while hiding all the other ones listed in their previous point plan that arent attractive.


No, they are implementing certain policies. They aren't hiding it, as you can see it is written up in their 2012 manifasto. Things change, compromises are made. Those policies, such as the 75% taxation is not planned in the near future.

Actually I think you'll see a max influx, they are planning to give free electricity to the impoverished, etc. If people haven't left Greece now, they aren't going to leave short of famine/war.

Either way, it's going to be catastrophic for Greece


It already was catastrophic for Greece.



Obviously the right had failed them, like it has America, and on its way to destroying Australia too.


Do you know the story of Greece and just how it came to be as it is now? One could argue it was that both political parties were socialist (populists to be precise) doling out government cash to anyone that asked basically. Eventually it went broke. It was a double pronged failure at the least. Doling out welfare to anyone and everyone, as well as massive tax evasions by the middle class.
So I wouldn't be so quick to label it as a failure of the right, Vash.
01:51pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16847 posts
I suppose it's also relevant to note that Greece also effectively hid its real debt levels from the world (and even its people) to continue doing what they did. Eventually it got found out though and that's when the s*** hit the fan very quickly.
02:12pm 27/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1529 posts
It's probably worth mentioning Goldman Sachs role in that before tarring "greece". Greece's circumstance of entering the euro was an enormously complicated. You need to keep in mind Germany etal get something out of having them in the mix.

The Euro is worth much less then any reasonable assessment of a german currency.
02:26pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16848 posts
Yeah there was the issue of Banks going broke too and getting bailed out by the government, a government that because of extreamly high debt, high welfare and low tax income due to tax dodging, couldn't afford.
02:31pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16850 posts
Anyway, what is totally clear is that our country needs a massive reform to taxation. Remove Income tax altogether I say and move towards a strong GST-like system.
02:39pm 27/01/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20360 posts
Greeks are a bunch of lazy c**** who don't pay tax and want to retire at 50 or whatever, it will be very interesting to see
02:55pm 27/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1530 posts
Boom!
04:15pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1592 posts

Anyway, what is totally clear is that our country needs a massive reform to taxation. Remove Income tax altogether I say and move towards a strong GST-like system.


So just regressive taxes then?

Wealth/capital tax would be nice to address inequality if we are going to stick with the capitalist system.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/22/we-need-a-wealth-tax-thomas-piketty-2014s-most-influential-thinker
04:31pm 27/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22248 posts
piketty has been thoroughly debunked. but i am going to read it and judge for myself.
04:37pm 27/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1593 posts
piketty has been thoroughly debunked. but i am going to read it and judge for myself.


Yeah he put the data up to be critiqued. The messaging and ideas if we're going to remain capitalist were good though.

It is criticised by the left also, they don't like him sticking with the capitalist system.

Best non-fiction book I've read lately, Russel Brand's book was average mostly because he talked about f*****g meditation constantly.
05:13pm 27/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1161 posts
Papua New Guinea's government believes most asylum seekers being held on Manus Island are economic opportunists whose protection claims will be rejected.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/most-asylum-seekers-economic-opportunists-says-png-prime-minister-20150127-12zif2.html

Tell us something we dont know.

PNG Prime Minister Peter O'Neill said the majority of those still in detention were not "genuine" asylum seekers and confirmed a "substantial number" would be sent home within weeks.
12:24am 28/01/15 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
255 posts
This post has been removed.
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12:44am 28/01/15 Permalink
Jim
UK
13613 posts
Tell us something we dont know.

wow, where to begin with that. it's tricky to work out exactly what you don't know and what you're just lying to yourself about to deal with the dissonance

as far as the article you linked though...

png was rated one of the most corrupt countries in the world in 2012. peter o'neill comes along claiming his party will fix that and appoints an anti-corruption watchdog. 2 years later that very watchdog accuses *him* of fraud, so he shuts it down and sacks the police chief and several commissioners. this is an ongoing issue

this is the guy who's comments you're latching onto

he 'believes that most of the refugees are not genuine'. except it's not defined by one's belief, it's defined in international law. what he claims to believe is not relevant in a fair and fact-based decision

he says that immigration officials were liaising with the governments of asylum seekers' home countries such as Iraq and Iran. yep, you're going to get some legit info there, cos those countries are bastions of rationality and fairness when it comes to dealing with their subjects

"How can you trust the government of Iran to tell you truthfully if somebody is likely to face persecution when they return home?" Sales asked.

Mr O'Neill said he was "hopeful" that other governments cared about their citizens and would "try and do what is best".

yep, sounds legit


Tensions boiled over on Manus Island earlier this month when as many as 600 detainees launched a hunger strike.

Almost 60 asylum seekers from Somalia, Iran and Sudan were arrested by PNG police during the unrest. The PNG government also confirmed that a number of men had swallowed razor blades, stitched their lips together and had swallowed washing powder.

yep, sounds like the behaviour of people who led a decent life in their homeland and just want to live large in australia without any good reason
05:10am 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24831 posts
An absolute classic example of an impressionable moron seeing something resembling his warped views in print and thinking that vindicates them in some way.
07:26am 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16858 posts
Brool, it's PNG man. How can you trust anything their officials have to say? He just wants to get rid of them ASAP.
08:13am 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22251 posts
anyone engaged in self-harm instantly loses credibility. it is behaviour intended to trigger media and political coverage to their situation. these refugees acting out are not interested in refuge from danger in their exit country, they are interested in arriving at their DESTINATION country and pissed off that they haven't gotten what they paid people smugglers for.
08:22am 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16859 posts
Really Infi?

Violent deliberate self-harm amongst adolescent refugees
Nina Patel MRCPsych, Matthew Hodes PhD, FRCPsych

Sorta says otherwise.

It's odd how you decide that these people are just like 'meh I can't get to Australia, so I'm going to swallow razer blades and sow my lips shut, really, really painful stuff because yeah, I'm annoyed I can't get to Australia'

However it is far more likely, 'These conditions I'm living in are incredibly stressful to my mental state, I have to take some pretty dramatic steps to get out of it. I would rather DIE then live in these conditions!'


Infi, these people would rather DIE than live how they currently are, that isn't the kind of thing people just bung on because they are 'pissed off that they haven't gotten what they paid people smugglers for.'

When was the last time you decided to slash your wrists because you were pissed you got ripped off?

I mean seriously man, you can't be that out of touch with humanity??
08:30am 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16860 posts
In fact, what is your evidence that backs up your belief? Or is it some false belief you gained from incorrectly associated some irrelevant pieces of information you casually gained from no-where in particular?

08:32am 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22252 posts
if they would rather die than live how they currently are then that is not very productive to seeking asylum, nor is failing to provide any helpful documentation. in fact nor is paying a people smuggler with whom you are likely to die or not successfully make your journey out of harbor. conducting oneself peacefully and safely while allowing the asylum claim to be processed would be helpful.

no doubt it is an extremely stressful mental state but what do they expect to happen, we just tick it off because their lips are sewn shut? that would be absurd.
08:43am 28/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1531 posts
Then add in as Burnside has suggested, self harm is part of a psycho-pathology.

It happens to people who lose hope within about 12 to 18 months of an arbitrary detention. citation

Manus island has been open about 18 months now. It's almost like you could identify a cause. They weren't self harming in January last year. But 12 to 18 months later and that train is never late.

It happens literally every time we do it within an identical time frame.
08:50am 28/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1532 posts
Don't be ridiculous infi.

If you could just form an orderly queue while people are trying to kill you and your family that'd be great. If you don't, we are going to torture you in a camp for the foreseeable future.

If you lose hope that you will ever leave the camp we repeatedly tell you you'll never leave, then its proof you're not really desperate.

If there is nothing you'll accept as the actions of a desperate person trying to flee an unacceptable situation, just say so. Don't then try and flip it so that you're actually deeply concerned about their safety at sea
09:02am 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24832 posts
anyone engaged in self-harm instantly loses credibility. it is behaviour intended to trigger media and political coverage to their situation. these refugees acting out are not interested in refuge from danger in their exit country, they are interested in arriving at their DESTINATION country and pissed off that they haven't gotten what they paid people smugglers for.
You're a worthless c***.
09:02am 28/01/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1594 posts

http://www.crikey.com.au/2015/01/27/arise-dame-julie-bishop-displays-her-sun-king-seal-of-approval/

Apparently our foreign minister needs to be visiting yank billionaires as a part of her role.

While Tony Abbott was preparing to bestow a knighthood reserved for “pre-eminent Australians” to a wealthy Greek bigot living in the UK, another type of anointing was taking place in New York. As revealed in the Financial Review, on the weekend Rupert “all Muslims not guilty” Murdoch received Julie Bishop, Foreign Minister of his far-flung vassal state,


What a f*****g surprise. Might not even be one term tone, maybe 2/3rds term tone.
09:27am 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16861 posts

if they would rather die than live how they currently are then that is not very productive to seeking asylum, nor is failing to provide any helpful documentation. in fact nor is paying a people smuggler with whom you are likely to die or not successfully make your journey out of harbor. conducting oneself peacefully and safely while allowing the asylum claim to be processed would be helpful.

no doubt it is an extremely stressful mental state but what do they expect to happen, we just tick it off because their lips are sewn shut? that would be absurd.


Ahh, so your deflection of my question implies that you don't actually have any factual evidence to back up your misguided belief. Why didn't you just say so?
09:45am 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16862 posts
Also, these asylum seekers have been made a political scapegoat. Something that should never have been done. They are living in their squalid conditions because it was politically convenient at the time a pre-election government ran for votes.

It is an incredibly shameful act from Australia and it's people, and you support this infi. History will look back on this very unfavorable as it has done with other politically motivated scapegoating.



last edited by Tollaz0r! at 09:50:30 28/Jan/15
09:48am 28/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1162 posts
anyone engaged in self-harm instantly loses credibility. it is behaviour intended to trigger media and political coverage to their situation. these refugees acting out are not interested in refuge from danger in their exit country, they are interested in arriving at their DESTINATION country and pissed off that they haven't gotten what they paid people smugglers for.


Well its already been proven that they conduct this behaviour with encouragement by so called "refugee activist groups" They know that it gets media attention. It's all a PR campaign. There was also data that show that everytime Greens Senator Sarah Hanson Young visited a detention centre, a spike in violence and unruly behaviour would occur.

And no matter how much it's confirmed, people like Fpot will still froth that they are genuine innocent people just escaping persecution. lol. I'm starting to think he is Julian Burnside.

Brool, it's PNG man. How can you trust anything their officials have to say? He just wants to get rid of them ASAP.


We have Australian officials saying the same things, but are also shot down as "untrustworthy" Something tells me that no matter who says it, or how much its confirmed, it will never be accepted by the die hard supporters of them.

Also, these asylum seekers have been made a political scapegoat. Something that should never have been done. They are living in their squalid conditions because it was politically convenient at the time a pre-election government ran for votes.

It is an incredibly shameful act from Australia and it's people, and you support this infi. History will look back on this very unfavorable as it has done with other politically motivated scapegoating.



last edited by Tollaz0r! at 09:50:30 28/Jan/15



I think you need to drop the "asylum seekers" part because we have thousands of asylum seekers coming here under our orderly refugee intake program and no one has a problem with that. The problem is with the people coming by boat, who are clearly economic migrants trying to get in via a backdoor.
01:05pm 28/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1534 posts
Well its already been proven that they conduct this behaviour with encouragement by so called "refugee activist groups" They know that it gets media attention.


Where is any proof of this?

That is an absurd libelous accusation. How do people campaigning for rule of law and respect for human rights gain from people mutilating themselves?


We have Australian officials saying the same things


No we don't.
01:13pm 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24834 posts
I was going to say that as usual everything you posted brool is either a bald-faced lie or at best a distortion of the truth and that I'm sure someone else will be more specific about it but I was beaten.
01:42pm 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22255 posts
History will look back on this very unfavorable as it has done with other politically motivated scapegoating.
last edited by Tollaz0r! at 09:50:30 28/Jan/15


This is why advocates of the "Bring them all in and set them up with benefits" policy are so out of touch with voterland. Aussies actually respect the tough stance taken on border protection. History will will look back on offshore processing as it is considered now by the vast majority of Aussies: necessary.

Arrivals are way down and would-be people smuggling customers now talk of how pointless it is to make the journey.
04:33pm 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24837 posts
It amazes me that even after years of discussion on this topic how wrong you still get it. You still spout the same bulls*** that was bulls*** over a year ago. And then I look at all your other dumb posts, and how you get things wrong all the time due to general dumbness and a complete lack of critical thinking skills and I think to myself, well, I guess that's how he lives his life. In a nice protective little bubble where it doesn't matter how dumb you are, or how wrong you are, or how big of a worthless pile of garbage you are. You even have the nerve to lie about how you got there yourself, no help from your family no siree. But that's bulls*** as well. You've obviously been coddled your whole life and if you hadn't you'd be what brool is. A useless failure who does nothing every day but hate life. You're a real piece of s*** infi.
04:40pm 28/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11517 posts
How do you explain the lack of boats ?

Under the ALPs plan there were dozens of boats arriving
Now its stopped.
Did the crisis' that created refugees end or did the policy change ?
pretty sure it was the policy.

05:02pm 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16864 posts

History will will look back on offshore processing as it is considered now by the vast majority of Aussies: necessary.


So where do you get the numbers for "considered now by the vast majority of Aussies: necessary."? Or are you just making s*** up again?
05:17pm 28/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1535 posts
Did the crisis' that created refugees end or did the policy change ?
pretty sure it was the policy.


That says nothing more than that we've created a worse option than the crisis.
05:58pm 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24838 posts
To be fair I don't think we have. We've simply created a lesser version of the torture that they face in their home countries so we can bravely offer them the option to either put up with it or go home.
06:14pm 28/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16865 posts
On the way home I realized I was arguing against the wrong thing.
To me it isn't so much the boats being turned back and all that goes with that, I get why infi supports it (I personally don't, but I get it).

It's the way the detainees have been treated. It is totally inappropriate and has been condemned by international experts. There have been series allegations raised, images of squalid living conditions, people dieing of easily treated diseases, widespread sever mental illness, etc.

I get that you support turning back the boats, but why on Earth do you support such hostility in the treatment of detainees?
06:35pm 28/01/15 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
1684 posts
I get that you support turning back the boats, but why on Earth do you support such hostility in the treatment of detainees?


I can answer that for him:

'Because they're poor and brown.'
07:09pm 28/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2104 posts


I can answer that for him:

'Because they're poor and brown.'


So if they were just poor they'd get in?
09:07pm 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22257 posts
it must infuriate fpot and the rest of the easy-entry-full-benefits brigade no-end that they are so sure with their superiority complex of enlightenment that they are right and this policy is horrible and a serious violation of conventions etc. yet is is so popular with australian voters.

all these masses of australians who are so brutal and uncaring fpot can't believe what utter c**** average aussies are. it's the refugee lobby that is out of touch. ausies don't like being had a lend of and the do-gooders who want to hand it all away just cant come to grips with the fact that their loony money-go-freely policies are not popular with everyday workers.

don't worry though, the do-gooder brigade are very good at being infuriated. there will be a bit of "march in march" and a bit of change.org. lobby some of the detainees to act up and get a bit of media coverage. none of it will matter, because the voters come election day are voting for the current border protection policy.

If you ever wondered why I am confident it is popular, it is because both Liberal and Labor have the same policy! They did this as a result of internal polling. If you can't grapple that fact just go back to tweeting in agreement with Julian Burnside and Sarah Hanson Young.
09:21pm 28/01/15 Permalink
Fireman Sam
Brisbane, Queensland
150 posts
What is popular and what is right are two entirely different things Infi.
09:44pm 28/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24839 posts
it must infuriate fpot and the rest of the easy-entry-full-benefits brigade no-end that they are so sure with their superiority complex of enlightenment that they are right and this policy is horrible and a serious violation of conventions etc. yet is is so popular with australian voters.
I stopped reading there. I might read the rest later if my stomach can handle it.

Dude, you're a parody. You advocate, or act as an apologist for, state sanctioned torture. They've had two deaths in custody. One was a murder shrouded in mystery and doubt about the validity of the arrests of the alleged perpetrators. The other guy died of an infection. Why is it that people in a first-world detention centre (so-called) die of third world diseases? You have a basic understanding of how antibiotics work don't you? So you realise just how preventable his death was, surely. The only way this guy could have died is if his pleas were ignored for an extended period of time. It's madness. Some guy who has killed his whole family and raped their corpses should be entitled to the medical treatment that this person was denied. That sounds like hyperbole, but it isn't.

Whatever happened to those stories about child sex being filmed that Morrison was cross about? Never heard much about that. Or any of the other horror stories that came out. But of course, they're only allegations aren't they? They'll remain that way because they'll never be investigated. Until some sort of royal commission or something happens, but it never will, because who gives a f*** about those reffos? I'm referring mainly to our two major parties, because let's remember it was Labor who first proposed this offshore plan. I actually think the public are becoming more aware about it, which is good.
09:44pm 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22258 posts
australia can do better with offshore processing and tbh PNG is not a good solution. Nauru was perfectly fine and a cheap way to deliver the policy. You are right that no one's life should be in danger while in processing. But processing centres are not required to have a 3 star RACQ rating and those isolated incidents are not a valid argument for dismantling the policy. The claim that living in detention refugee processing is state sanction torture is ridiculous hyperbole. All asylum seekers have food clothing and shelter, they are seeking asylum from a threat of persecution which has been alleviated by arriving at a processing centre.

The policy is delivering benefits. Australia is increasing its humanitarian intake and reducing arrivals by dangerous means through an illicit trade.

What is popular and what is right are two entirely different things Infi.


right is a subjective assessment. universal rights are inalienable e.g. rights of citizens to liberties. however the right to enter a country of which you are not a citizen is not one of those rights.
10:11pm 28/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1537 posts
The claim that living in detention refugee processing is state sanction torture is ridiculous hyperbole. All asylum seekers have food clothing and shelter, they are seeking asylum from a threat of persecution which has been alleviated by arriving at a processing centre.


That's not the bit that would be torturous. It's denying people certainty about the duration of their detention.

freedom from arbitrary detention has been considered a universal human right since the signing of the magna carta nearly 1000 years ago infi. You can't honestly be denying that.

however the right to enter a country of which you are not a citizen is not one of those rights.


Actually by ratifying the convention on refugees it sort of is in Australia. In fact it totally is.
10:29pm 28/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22259 posts
freedom from arbitrary detention has been considered a universal human right since the signing of the magna carta nearly 1000 years ago infi.


asylum seekers can leave at any time. they are not imprisoned and not charged.

Actually by ratifying the convention on refugees it sort of is in Australia. In fact it totally is.


no it is not. it is subject to security checks. and the asylum can be temporary until the threat is resolved.
10:40pm 28/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1163 posts

Where is any proof of this?


Right here:

A FORMER director of offshore processing in Australia’s immigration detention camps claims asylum-seekers are coached and encouraged to attempt self-harm by refugee advocates who then use the incidents as political capital.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/advocates-coaching-asylumseekers-to-selfharm-for-political-reasons/story-fn9hm1gu-1226985002855


That is an absurd libelous accusation. How do people campaigning for rule of law and respect for human rights gain from people mutilating themselves?


I'd love this question answered too. They must be pretty sick people and must have some vested interest in helping economic migrants get here.

http://i.imgur.com/O2MQzZa.jpg
11:36pm 28/01/15 Permalink
Vash
4268 posts
12:41am 29/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1538 posts
Right here:


You don't totally get proof do you. Hint, anonymous third hand accusations aren't it. Proof of coaching would entail a specific person being specifically told to do what you are suggesting. Until you can produce a credible transcript of that kind you're full of crap brool.

asylum seekers can leave at any time. they are not imprisoned and not charged.


Only to the the situation they fled in the first place. That's not "free to go" by any reasonable definition. Their not being charged, is the classic example of arbitrary detention. You can't possibly be arguing that being detained without charge is no biggy. To be clear, arbitrary detention was determined to be illegal before hanging, drawing and quartering. Medieval peasants got this concept infi.

no it is not. it is subject to security checks. and the asylum can be temporary until the threat is resolved.


So ah from the universal declaration of human rights, or those rights held in virtue of being a human.


(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.


Not qualified in the way you suggest at all. Unless the person seeking asylum is themselves a criminal(and that is often highly contentious in a refugees case) they have the right to enter a country and seek asylum.
07:30am 29/01/15 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4346 posts
by and large these people running from persecution aren't stopping once they reach the endzone so to speak - they want the best country they can think of

but whatever, we ought to welcome our fair share anyway. and I've never been sure what the advantage of offshore processing even is
08:24am 29/01/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1539 posts
The key advantage is that it gives superficial legal credibility to not accepting claims for refugee status.

Because they never enter the migration zone, they theoretically are never in a position to ask the Australian government for asylum.

Once you are in a country and claim asylum a whole bunch of rights accrue.
09:05am 29/01/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16874 posts
Putting a scientist in control of scientific matters? No no, that just isn't how it's done. You need to put someone who has no idea how it all works in charge, just ask our Politicians of our major parties.
02:30pm 29/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1870 posts
02:31pm 29/01/15 Permalink
Jim
UK
13616 posts
02:48pm 29/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24840 posts
Keeping people locked away indefinitely in inhumane conditions is torture. Denying people access to medical treatment and allowing them to die of an infection is torture. These are only the things we know about, because everything else is kept a secret. Now call me paranoid, but after the cavalcade of lies the government has been telling the public, I find them to be less than trustworthy when it comes to keeping asylum seekers safe, and I feel personally that there might be some weight to the allegations that are flying around.

Saying they are free to leave at anytime is really f*****g dumb. But hey it's you so what else can I expect? Having a choice between indefinite detention in an inhumane detention centre or going back to the threat of imprisonment, torture and murder is not a choice. Free will doesn't exist when the person making the choice is under duress, which is exactly the situation these people are in. You mention that they're given food and shelter, like that is some kind of salient point. Do you want to know what other regimes have given their prisoners food and shelter in the past? I bet even you're capable of thinking of the answer to that one.

however the right to enter a country of which you are not a citizen is not one of those rights.
As Pete pointed out, it is a human right to enter a country without a visa for the purposes of gaining asylum. You still cannot grasp this concept, or you are simply continuing to ignore it. That's what you do - ignore the things that legitimately contradict the lies you constantly repeat and harp on about. The nice protective little bubble that I previously mentioned.

Now after you either ignore this post, or do another one of your braindead, simpering, torture apologist replies full of your usual bulls*** I am going to stop replying to you, because conversing with you is pointless. You're a waste of time.
02:54pm 29/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2105 posts
08:24pm 29/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2106 posts

More importantly;

If the Liberal National Party wins the Queensland election on Saturday, but its leader, Campbell Newman, loses his seat of Ashgrove, can he remain premier? This may be the question vexing minds on Sunday morning. The answer is not as clear as it might have been, due to a failure to make proposed constitutional amendments in 2005.


Which means;

The office of premier will only be vacated if Campbell Newman resigns to the Governor or in exceptional circumstances is dismissed from office. Newman losing his seat at the election would not automatically vacate his office as premier
https://theconversation.com/can-newman-still-be-queensland-premier-if-he-loses-his-seat-36883
08:44pm 29/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22261 posts
If he didn't resign there would be civil unrest. He would be very foolish to ignore the poll result.
08:48pm 29/01/15 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4350 posts
technically possible, but the governor would sack him
09:04pm 29/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1164 posts
Needs another meme;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/10661862_10153097342061789_8687729135275776286_o.png


Wow, they must be extremely poor that they couldn't even afford $5 to go to the doctors, meanwhile she will go out tomorrow for a $120 haircut, he will buy a slab of beer.
10:27pm 29/01/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24842 posts
When you get a job basement boy (I'd say family as well, but I think you are firmly in the forever alone category) and don't just have your mummy paying for everything and driving you around everywhere you may just understand how tight money can get.

Thing is though, you'll never understand, because you're an unemployable cretin who will never be employed by anybody :(
10:30pm 29/01/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1871 posts
he's been pretty busy http://www.pubfacts.com/author/Costas+Fotakis
Now that is one extensive list of work. He certainly is eminently qualified. Wish we had leaders in this country not so fearful of science.
01:04am 30/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1165 posts
When you get a job basement boy (I'd say family as well, but I think you are firmly in the forever alone category) and don't just have your mummy paying for everything and driving you around everywhere you may just understand how tight money can get.

Thing is though, you'll never understand, because you're an unemployable cretin who will never be employed by anybody :(


hopefully one day I can be a Paul Blart Mall Cop like you.
01:35pm 30/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2107 posts


hopefully one day I can be a Paul Blart Mall Cop like you.


I had to google that obscure reference.......

So the choice is a "wannabe state cop come sorta hero who gets the girl" vs a "basement dwelling cretin".......


Seems to be the same as Labor vs LNP....
02:19pm 30/01/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
421 posts
http://img1.ask.fm/assets2/021/975/946/496/normal/image.jpg

Tony Abbot declares him self "A good Captain"
04:01pm 30/01/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
228 posts
Wow, they must be extremely poor that they couldn't even afford $5 to go to the doctors, meanwhile she will go out tomorrow for a $120 haircut, he will buy a slab of beer.


Wow you really do live in a fantasy world.

Already going without ever owning their own home and now you want to take away the poor bastard's beer?

This is why I've been breaking the teeth of every clown who claims the economy is growing (surprising how easy it is to get insurance for that)... if the economy is growing, why are people becoming worse off??

F*****g rich people and their straight teeth... there's nothing worse.
04:19pm 30/01/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11520 posts
Malcolm Turnbull and Tanya Plibersek have been given the punt from the Today show’s Friday political segment.

The inner-city MPs are supposed to be opponents but Nine bosses found they were too much alike.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/kaboom-dave-warner-opens-up-on-michael-clarke-malcolm-turnbull-and-the-need-to-sledge/story-fnniow7v-1227202667513

BWAH HA HA
BWAH HA HA

Turnbull will never again lead the Coalition.
Never ever
07:13pm 31/01/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22266 posts
Turnbull will never be leader. Rank and file dont trust him after selling out the Libs on Carbon Tax.
08:55pm 31/01/15 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
2109 posts
And the march to take back Canberra continues.
10:42pm 31/01/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20371 posts
the thing about malcolm is he has always been behind smart policies regardless of which side like the original nbn (iirc), carbon tax etc. which doesn't fit the nope nope nope party policy

It must burn him to be releasing this s***** nbn when he knows better
10:46pm 31/01/15 Permalink
BroolStoryCo
Melbourne, Victoria
1167 posts
rofll labor just won queensland lmao!!!! Omg this is comedy gold
01:57am 01/02/15 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1875 posts
rofll labor just won queensland lmao!!!! Omg this is comedy gold
The only thing comical is your ability at being irrelevant.
02:28am 01/02/15 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
24844 posts
rofll labor just won queensland lmao!!!! Omg this is comedy gold
heh. Does it get any sadder than this guy?
03:21am 01/02/15 Permalink
zaraq
Adelaide, South Australia
425 posts
Well at this point in proceedings i would say the knives are being sharpened and T Abott will be donning his Kevlar underpants.

The possible contenders for the next Prime minister (in my opinion) are M Turnbull ,C Pyne,P Dutton,K Andrews, my money would be on K Andrews as he looks more like M Fraser and has a presence.

Still if i had my choice i would pick J Hockey becuase he smokes cigars just like Fidel Castro and i think thats just how he would run the country.

And to T Abott if you're going to carry you're self and mimic you're behavior on J Howards mannerisms perhaps you should also adopt his "Blood Bowl" tactics as well.
04:05am 01/02/15 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
4353 posts
^ my money is on Turnbull because he lost the leadership challenge by a bee's d*** last time and he leads most "preferred opposition leader" polls last time I checked (which admittedly was not recently)
06:41am 01/02/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15813 posts
So if they keep Tone then they are f***ed, federal poll this morning was Gillard-esque.

If they ditch him then they are going to take a huge hit after all the s*** while in opposition about knifing a PM. I don't see old mate Tone resigning voluntarily?

Of course the big question is do we get our real NBN out of all this?! ;)
10:15am 01/02/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22268 posts
Tone has been his own worst enemy. Own goals will be punished by the backbench.
10:29am 01/02/15 Permalink
PornoPete
Melbourne, Victoria
1540 posts
Ah the perils of leading a public life but not being able to stray from three word talking points.
10:51am 01/02/15 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
15817 posts
Was it just me or was the QLD LNP Strong slogan on the nose really badly?

Could it be that the electorate has grown up a little bit, and Stong Plan Strong Government OMG SO STRONGK! is no longer enough? Haha nah that can't be it.
10:53am 01/02/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22270 posts
The worst thing about the slogan, and it was a serious research fail, was the word "strong" can be easily associated with authoritarian and autocratic. It actually reinforced the perception LNP were fighting for the last year.
11:00am 01/02/15 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
5278 posts
Watched Anastasia Can'tspellherlastname's victory speech last night. Lost track of the number of times I heard the word amazing.

Looking forward to the next 3 years of the Amazing Labor team with the amazing plan and amazing control of the budget!

Girlfriends a staunch Labor/Greens voter and she yelled at the TV at one point "user another word damnit!"
04:04pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Arpey
New South Wales
96 posts
I don't see old mate Tone resigning voluntarily?


Too much ego to bow out gracefully despite knowing that the public has turned on him. He's Rudd but without any of the charisma.

Tony will hold on as long as possible, ruining the Libs' chance at the next federal election. Everything he's done has been self-serving, especially reinstating knighthoods - it's his version of Rudd angling for the UN position.
04:56pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Roonee
Perth, Western Australia
230 posts
It's a pity I can't browse the old political thread and dig up my prophesisation of Turnbull becoming liberal leader by the time the next election comes along... which got shot down with the nonsense claim of the liberal party not having 'factions' but rather a strange 'followers' system and turnbull had no followers...

Fools.

Turnbull hasn't been in the news much lately. He's staying out of sight until talk of potential new leaders and a wave of popular opinion compels him into the spotlight and finally to leader... that way its not backstabbing from a dysfunctional party system (ie competing factions), it just happens naturally.

Meanwhile Tones just has to keep doing stupid s*** that pisses most people off... seriously, a knighthood for prince phillip on australia day and without even some front bench consultation? If that wasn't a deliberate 'replace me as leader' move then that idiot is even more stupid than W. Bush.

edit: stupider*
05:02pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
6652 posts
Watched Anastasia Can'tspellherlastname's victory speech last night. Lost track of the number of times I heard the word amazing.

Looking forward to the next 3 years of the Amazing Labor team with the amazing plan and amazing control of the budget!

Girlfriends a staunch Labor/Greens voter and she yelled at the TV at one point "user another word damnit!"



Yeah I noticed that too. Palaszczuk is just a backbencher way out of her depth, thrust forward into the leadership in the 2012 wipeout.
She's still a better choice than the LNP though... that's what's most amazing about it.
06:21pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4271 posts
The greens know how to run an economy.

http://goo.gl/ZZaAnq
06:46pm 01/02/15 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
20377 posts
Looks like the kind of thing that would see big business and people that earn a lot move away from australia

Mr communist

06:49pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Arpey
New South Wales
97 posts
It's a pity I can't browse the old political thread and dig up my prophesisation of Turnbull becoming liberal leader by the time the next election comes along... which got shot down with the nonsense claim of the liberal party not having 'factions' but rather a strange 'followers' system and turnbull had no followers...


I'm not certain Turnbull would want to lead the party again, and I'm not sure they want to give him another shot. Remember, he was turfed out over being a functional human being who can change his stance on a subject (climate change) when confronted with the facts. That doesn't fit with the dogmatic name-calling that politics has become in the last decade.
06:54pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4272 posts
Except those companies aren't going anywhere if they pay more into the community for profiting off *our* resources.
Nor the banks.
The only thing that would cause people to leave would be the millionaires tax, which i can see people leaving if it's too much.

People love living in this country, and i don't think people would leave knowing the benefits such taxation would have on the economy. The millionaires tax i agree with, if it's a once off or a levy of sorts to help the budget.

A small price to pay for economic recovery from the GFC.
07:12pm 01/02/15 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
22272 posts
What could possibly go wrong? It's free money.
07:53pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4273 posts
Indeed. free money for big miners & the banks, gouging the community of it's hard earned.
07:55pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16888 posts
Vash, infi is against corporate welfare almost as much as individual welfare.

So Vash, since they are 'our' resources, I guess you are totally OK with mining companies having the right to force a land owner to let them mine on their land.
08:19pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4274 posts
Not at all. If a land owner is sitting on a pretty amount of resources, they should be able to sell the land to the miners, or, receive handsome royalties for the use of their land.
Just like how when government land grabs for major infrastructure projects.
08:24pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1599 posts
Looks like the kind of thing that would see big business and people that earn a lot move away from australia
Mr communist


Untrue, Norway did the same. We have squandered our chance for future generations.
08:27pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16890 posts

Not at all. If a land owner is sitting on a pretty amount of resources, they should be able to sell the land to the miners, or, receive handsome royalties for the use of their land.


But they are 'our' resources aren't they, why should the guy who happens to own that bit of land get a say? Are you saying they are actually his resources and he has can choose to sell the land or lease it out for royalties?
09:06pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4275 posts


But they are 'our' resources aren't they, why should the guy who happens to own that bit of land get a say? Are you saying they are actually his resources and he has can choose to sell the land or lease it out for royalties?


He is forced to choose, either way. Land owners holding onto rich resources isn't good for the country as a whole.
Then once the mining commences, ideally, by a government owned business, then the economy benefits greatly.
09:17pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16891 posts
So you do agree that mining companies should be able to mine on anyone's land, whenever they way.

That's pretty harsh.
09:34pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4276 posts
Homeowners being forced to sell property for infrastructure, such as freeways/rail is harsh too. But necessary.
09:42pm 01/02/15 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
11528 posts
"profiting off *our* resources"
So profit is wrong and we must fine them for being successful ?

"profiting off *our* resources"
SO if they pay more money, that money will come to us owners ?
Or does it go to Government ?

Its not *our* resources, it appears to be the Governments resources.
10:04pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
6504 posts
Land resumptions usually aren't that harsh. Usually more than Market value too.
I do a few resumptions every now and then.
10:09pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16892 posts

Homeowners being forced to sell property for infrastructure, such as freeways/rail is harsh too. But necessary.


Oh, I'm not buying your s***** farmland or your house. I'm just going to dig it up.
10:34pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4277 posts
"profiting off *our* resources"
So profit is wrong and we must fine them for being successful ?

"profiting off *our* resources"
SO if they pay more money, that money will come to us owners ?
Or does it go to Government ?

Its not *our* resources, it appears to be the Governments resources.


lol..
they make huge profit. they just aren't taxed enough. There should certainly be more taxation using our resources. The banks make a ridiculous profit too.

It goes to government, which represents the people, of course. If you have a decent government that is (not the LNP)

If people like Rinehart and Palmer can become billionaires off the fruit of our resources, theres something seriously wrong.
10:36pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4278 posts


Oh, I'm not buying your s***** farmland or your house. I'm just going to dig it up.


Oh? Well that's abit too communist for me.
10:38pm 01/02/15 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
16894 posts

If people like Rinehart and Palmer can become billionaires off the fruit of our resources, theres something seriously wrong.


What makes them 'our' resources Vash? For the good of the country? Why stop at the country though. It should be for the good of the world yeah? So in that case The ultra poor people in the world should be getting the lions share of their resources that our government digs up right?

Why is a countries form of ownership superior to an individuals form of ownership but inferior to a worlds form of ownership?
09:19am 02/02/15 Permalink
Vash
4279 posts
That's the entire point. more taxation on resource mining so its distributed via a welfare state.
Capitalism doesn't allow redistribution to the world's poor, so thats as good as we're going to get with this system.

A globalised system of resource/ wealth distribution would be both sustainable and solve our poverty issue.
09:33am 02/02/15 Permalink
Sir Redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1602 posts
The working men have no country... At least not in the bourgeois sense of the word.
09:40am 02/02/15 Permalink