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Apple suing Samsung, Samsung not allowed to sell tablets in Australia
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
17089 posts
This news seemed to have totally slipped under the radar (at least for me it did), but Apple are suing Samsung over their Galaxy phones and tablets, claiming it infringes on patents that Apple has on the "look and feel" of their products, which sounds like vague bulls*** to me.

Anyway, that original article is from a few months ago, and is in the US. The latest though (and the reason I found out about it just now) is I was talking to my brother who was meant to be getting one of the new Samsung Galaxy tablets through work as a company thing. They still haven't got them and he rang the supplier today to ask where the f*** they were, and was told that they have them, but they aren't allowed to sell them, because Apple have gone to federal court in Australia and got an injunction against Samsung advertising or selling their new tablets. I didn't believe him at first, but turns out its true

This just seems like some REALLY dodgy s*** to be pulling on Apple's behalf. I mean, how do you even quantify "look and feel". From those pictures the Samsung tablets don't look much at all like an Ipad, and they run completely different operating systems and software to an ipad, the only thing they have in common is they're a tablet with a touch screen, technology that was already around years before the Ipad ever showed up.
07:20pm 15/08/11 Permalink
system
Internet
--
07:20pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6292 posts
I don't have anything constructive to say in this thread other than:

F*** apple, seriously.

edit: changed the A to a lower case to denote inferiority and lack of respect for those a*******.
07:25pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Totenkopf
Melbourne, Victoria
393 posts
Second that, f*** 'em.
07:25pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
802 posts
the look and feel of there design? wtf?

Thats like Ford Turning around and suing every other car manufacturer for having 4 wheels and a steering wheel
07:33pm 15/08/11 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
342 posts
***EDIT: WARNING SARCASM***
Don't forget apple invented/revolutionised the front facing camera, the mobile gps, the touchscreen, the wifis, the internetz, etc. I am surprised this hasn't happened sooner. :S

I mean, how do you even quantify "look and feel".


There is also no doubt that some of Samsungs recent products look a lot like the apple counterparts. But how do you quantify/argue that. who knows.

I hope that Samsung smashes them up. Apple need some competition.
07:34pm 15/08/11 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3579 posts
not to mention apparently swipe to unlock is an enforceable apple patent..
07:36pm 15/08/11 Permalink
d0mino
Brisbane, Queensland
5150 posts
If apple had not brought out the iPad, woud samsung / blackberry / hp / etc etc etc be working their asses off trying to bring them out?

jussayin'
07:38pm 15/08/11 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
3472 posts
Don't forget apple invented/revolutionised the front facing camera, the mobile gps, the touchscreen, the wifis, the internetz, etc. I am surprised this hasn't happened sooner. :S


Typical apple fanboism bulls***.

While I agree the Samsung tablets look similar to the ipad, Pretty much all tablets the f*****g same, there's only so much you can do with a screen.

Apple need to get f***ed, seriously. They are involved in so many lawsuits atm, they can't handle competition at all.
07:39pm 15/08/11 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
343 posts
Typical apple fanboism bulls***.


Yeah pretty sure I was being sarcastic. Invented the internetz?
07:41pm 15/08/11 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6141 posts
I really hope Apple lose and have to pay out the nose in damages to Samsung. I love apple hardware but hate their software and hate their anti-competitive practices.
07:42pm 15/08/11 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
3473 posts
You did say revolutionised as well though, which god knows I've heard all sorts of s*** come from apple 'enthusiasts'.
07:42pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Boxhead
Brisbane, Queensland
12211 posts
I loved the exchanges between the sides. Apple demanded to get some of the Samsung bits to check them against their stuff. Samsung immediately demanded iPhone 5 and iPad 3 samples.

But yeah patent law suits are s*** regardless of who's firing the shots. Mutually assured destruction is the way. Google/Nortel patents are another example. Everyone is very busy getting patents.
07:45pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Midda
Brisbane, Queensland
7343 posts
If apple had not brought out the iPad, woud samsung / blackberry / hp / etc etc etc be working their asses off trying to bring them out?

jussayin'

And I'm jussayin' that's completely irrelevant.

Apple are f***wits.
08:10pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Dodgymon
Brisbane, Queensland
1890 posts
My very first impression of the Samsung Galaxy S2 was that it looked too much like an iphone even the UI looks iphoney.
08:31pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6039 posts
If apple had not brought out the iPad, woud samsung / blackberry / hp / etc etc etc be working their asses off trying to bring them out? jussayin'
Nokia released the 770 in 2005, Samsung's Q1 was released in 2006 and that's just a couple of examples I can think of easily. Apple found the formula that worked, doesn't mean other companies weren't trying.
08:38pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Eorl
Gold Coast, Queensland
2775 posts
Looks completely different to me. Eh, I voted with my wallet and went HTC Desire HD, never owned a iPhone or iPad, never will. The EEE transformer looks to promising.
08:43pm 15/08/11 Permalink
exo
Melbourne, Victoria
8961 posts
08:47pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
3799 posts
Yeah it's a d*** move by Apple, but I'm not about to boycott them or anything.
They better be careful, once they start slinging around software patents there's all kinds of s*** that can come back around to haunt them...
08:50pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
17092 posts
Doesn't look too similar to me, apart from the fact it has a big touch screen on it, which any number of other phones also do. I mean, the menu on my old Nokia looked pretty much like that menu, it just wasn't a touch screen. So where do you draw the line?

Besides, that Samsung phone could send MMS messages and take video using its camera, so they obviously weren't copying the iphone.
08:54pm 15/08/11 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
7191 posts
O2 XDA was out in 2002 or 2003. Full sized touch screen, could get skins for it, etc. All Apple do and ever have done is improve on something by implementing good UI and ease of use. They didn't invent anything new or exciting.
08:56pm 15/08/11 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
14863 posts
Don't forget apple invented/revolutionised the front facing camera, the mobile gps, the touchscreen, the wifis, the internetz, etc. I am surprised this hasn't happened sooner. :S


haha yeah they sure revolutionised the front facing camera, they start advertsing it as something BRAND NEW AND EXCITING years after it was on every phone and apple noobs ate that s*** up like steve job's semen
08:57pm 15/08/11 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
1941 posts
If I were Samsung, I'd rename the tablets to Samsung Orange and then go into court and say they are comparing Apples to Oranges!
09:10pm 15/08/11 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
753 posts
Don't forget apple invented/revolutionised the front facing camera, the mobile gps, the touchscreen, the wifis, the internetz, etc. I am surprised this hasn't happened sooner. :S



There is also no doubt that some of Samsungs recent products look a lot like the apple counterparts. But how do you quantify/argue that. who knows.

I hope that Samsung smashes them up. Apple need some competition.



WTF!! apple did none of that!, all it did was target it to a bunch of hipsters
09:16pm 15/08/11 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
11508 posts
I just came here to be smug

Apple are the best, I love all of my apple things that just work together so beautifully
09:26pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Python
Sydney, New South Wales
1098 posts
Apple also have patents on the "swipe" action moving right to left to unlock the screen. They have patents on all sorts of "actions".

Very ordinary.
09:29pm 15/08/11 Permalink
DK
Brisbane, Queensland
346 posts
WTF!! apple did none of that!, all it did was target it to a bunch of hipsters


derpa derp...
Yeah pretty sure I was being sarcastic. Invented the internetz?
09:30pm 15/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7786 posts
Apple also have patents on the "swipe" action moving right to left to unlock the screen. They have patents on all sorts of "actions".

Very ordinary.


So? They are only protecting the very thing that sets their products apart from the others - ease of use. That's their competitive advantage so it would make sense to protect that... no?

The track pad on a MBP is a massive feature and makes windows based laptops operate like s***. If that's copied then they lose that advantage that they invested in and developed.

I had a Samsung touch phone and then recently got a Samsung Galaxy. The first phone was s*** to use, the Galaxy is awesome and there's no denying that they have copied Apple like a mother f***** to achieve that.

In regards to the law suits etc I know nothing about them and frankly don't care.

last edited by mission at 21:39:19 15/Aug/11
09:38pm 15/08/11 Permalink
reso
I can't read
Brisbane, Queensland
5243 posts
patents r dum
09:43pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Python
Sydney, New South Wales
1099 posts
09:53pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
17093 posts
Haha, I love how the reporter spends a whole paragraph just explaining how fat that guy is
09:56pm 15/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7787 posts
^ lol wtf
10:09pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6293 posts
ichardson, 49, has a friendly, round face, dark-rimmed glasses and blue eyes. Friends and colleagues speak in awe of his prodigious intelligence but the sheer size of him is what you notice first - his nimble brain is trapped inside a lumbering body that tips the scales at close to 180 kilograms. When we meet at a smart Byron Bay resort, he is wearing a navy T-shirt so enormous it could probably accommodate Bill Gates and the entire Microsoft board. While he talks, he perches on the edge of his seat, as if afraid his full weight might be too much for it. Though gregarious and good-humoured, he has the slightly apologetic air of one who knows he takes up more space than he should.
LOL
10:12pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3079 posts
How many people in this thread hating on Apple own iPhones or other Apple products? I bet there's a decent amount. As for the iPhone/s2 being alike, I've owned both and can't say I find many similarities at all. The S2 is heaps better.
10:41pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
3802 posts
haha, in the next paragraph he describes the awkward "YOU GOT MY COFFEE WRONG PUNY HUMAN!" conversation with the wait staff - wtf! word quota perhaps?
10:42pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10402 posts
How many people in this thread hating on Apple own iPhones or other Apple products?

Why should I not buy a phone that suits my needs because I disagree with their legal / corporate direction?
10:48pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6295 posts
How many people in this thread hating on Apple own iPhones or other Apple products?
I've never owned 1 apple product. The closest thing i've been to apple is at the grocery store and even then i feel dirty.

I'm at complete polar opposites to teq, which only reinforces the fact that I'm right.
10:52pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Khel
Melbourne, Victoria
17097 posts
I own an ipod, but I think thats possibly more just out of habit than anything else, since I've used an ipod in some form or another to listen to my music for the last 7 years. Never owned any other Apple products though, and don't really see a need to when the competitor's products offer more and suit my requirements better.
10:56pm 15/08/11 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
2805 posts
My very first impression of the Samsung Galaxy S2 was that it looked too much like an iphone even the UI looks iphoney.


ahh It looks nothing like an iphone if you ask me. The "smart phone" design is just the current mobile phone standard. Every single mobile phone out there is a small pocket tab with a touch screen that does everything.

Remember when nokia brought out the 5110?, alcatel brought a phone called a one touch easy that looked similar. Then after that we saw the Nokia 3210, 3310 etc etc. As time progressed each company's designs were based on the current expected size of a mobile phone. This is nothing new. I think this law suit is bogus, hope it gets thrown out.
11:15pm 15/08/11 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
14742 posts
Not so much the S2, but the S1 sure did.
11:25pm 15/08/11 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
4270 posts
*Posts pictures of the first Plasma TV screen, and then posts pictures of rival manufacturers plasma TV Screen*

The back of a S1 has a carbon fiber look, with the samsung 'wave' shape which is on a lot of their products.

The iPhone has no standout features, and considers all rivals without a standout feature to be a copy.

The only point of this is to hold samsung out of releasing a product for long enough for that product to be out of date. Delaying a product launch for even a few months pretty much renders the product dead. Think about it, how many other tablet's are positioned to launch soon which are coming out better than the tab?

If the tab is delayed, then the tab fails. Even if apple loses the case, they've held off the predator and the next one is lining up to take it's place.

This is why copyright law is being reviewed in countries such as england.

haha yeah they sure revolutionised the front facing camera, they start advertsing it as something BRAND NEW AND EXCITING years after it was on every phone and apple noobs ate that s*** up like steve job's semen

Haha pave proving his ability for sarcasm again.

**** GIANT SARCASM WARNING ****

pretty good going there champ

**** GIANT SARCASM WARNING END ****
11:35pm 15/08/11 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
11511 posts
Why should I not buy a phone that suits my needs because I disagree with their legal / corporate direction?


trolololol
11:43pm 15/08/11 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3580 posts
the first "tablets" (by apple definition) that hit the market were actually windows based laptops with out the keyboard. from memory Hp released one the the first ones.. they were released imo way before their time and the technology just didn't exist to make them practical. (if i remember correctly Microsoft was trying to market them as an extention tot he desktop almost like a remote monitor where nothing is really stored on the tablet its self)

all apple did is almost copy the Hp version, change the colour and use current day tech such as flash memory, which in the old days just wasn't cost effective. apple also learnt a lesson from Microsoft's mistakes, they made the UI far more suited to the keyboardless environment ..

it just s**** me when people think / say apple invented the tablet.. all apple did was copy something then make a boatload of patents.

last edited by TufNuT at 00:02:56 16/Aug/11

last edited by TufNuT at 00:04:06 16/Aug/11
12:01am 16/08/11 Permalink
benneth
Brisbane, Queensland
1310 posts
The only point of this is to hold samsung out of releasing a product for long enough for that product to be out of date. Delaying a product launch for even a few months pretty much renders the product dead. Think about it, how many other tablet's are positioned to launch soon which are coming out better than the tab?

If the tab is delayed, then the tab fails. Even if apple loses the case, they've held off the predator and the next one is lining up to take it's place.


I agree, it would be interesting to see when it gets thrown out if Samsung then counter sues apple for loss of revenue, No idea if they can do this or not though.

Also, don't samsung make some of the parts in apple products anyway?
12:04am 16/08/11 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3581 posts
Also, don't samsung make some of the parts in apple products anyway?


the screens. but Apple are looking for new suppliers.. lol..
12:05am 16/08/11 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
756 posts
i thought foxconn made everything
06:05am 16/08/11 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1189 posts
Also, don't samsung make some of the parts in apple products anyway?

the screens. but Apple are looking for new suppliers.. lol..


Nah, Apple just moved more screens from LG to Samsung:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/10/apple-shifts-ipad-2-display-orders-from-lg-to-samsung-due-to-quality-issues/

The industry has been screwed up for ages, patent and IP law is a joke:

Sony sues sony - http://slashdot.org/story/03/01/24/1446217/Sony-Case-of-Right-vs-Left-Hand


http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/07/mpeg-la-12-companies-own-patents-essential-to-googles-vp8-codec.ars
This ones a bit harder to grok but basically:
MPEGLA is a patent pool which a large party is MS
MS buys Skype
Skype just switched to WebM
MPEGLA is about to sue Google over WebM
MS essentially suing itself

And of course the classic whose suing who
http://cdn.mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/whos_suing_whom.png
06:22am 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3807 posts
the patent system is a joke, by adding "on computers" they attempt to patent anything and it gets approved. Most of the patents have prior art too & never stand up to the scrutiny once it gets into court.. but they don't use the patent system to get justice, they use it to fight competition, very little of the patent wars ever get resolved at court, its just used as red tape.

I'm glad that Google is starting to finally backing android against apple patents.
07:40am 16/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12749 posts
I read MacRumors.com news regularly, and almost every day there's a new post about a patent lawsuit between the big companies. It seems to be the way these big companies do business, and if you think Apple is the root of all evil because they do it, you'd better keep your head buried in the sand.
09:23am 16/08/11 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
14866 posts
Haha pave proving his ability for sarcasm again.


think i'm proving that others are bad at sarcasm

and really, reading that post it's exactly the kind of stuff an apple user like teq would say so i think i can be forgiven for believing it

i see you're still hurting from that other thread though champ, it's ok

last edited by paveway at 09:50:20 16/Aug/11
09:29am 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10403 posts
trolololol

Any actual point here?
09:34am 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3808 posts
Why should I not buy a phone that suits my needs because I disagree with their legal / corporate direction?
You should not by the phone because you disagree with their corporate and legal direction? i mean, that's a better reason than "i don't like the colour".

if you don't like the legal world they are creating, why are you supporting them? or are you saying you sold out?

last edited by lateral at 09:51:42 16/Aug/11
09:45am 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10404 posts
I'm saying I don't care enough about the legal wranglings between multi-bazillion dollar companies over a broken patent system to base purchasing a phone solely around it.

Apple didn't create the legal world, they just live in it like every other corporate citizen.
10:08am 16/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12750 posts
This Apple s*** is a great case of how cognitive dissonance affects thoughts/behaviours. Take me for example: I love Apple products, but I hate the lawsuit stuff and the fact they use slave labor (slight exaggeration). This internal conflict creates "cognitive dissonance", and I have to change something about my thoughts or behaviours to resolve it. My basic options are to decide that I no longer like Apple products, which would require a change in behaviour and opinions, or, I could change my thoughts about how much the negative Apple stuff bothers me, which would only require changing my opinions. For me, there are far less barriers to convincing myself that Apple aren't that evil, compared with going to all the lifestyle changes of not using Apple products.

Of course, you can insert any company's name in the place of Apple, and the example could probably apply to everyone here.
10:12am 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10405 posts
I prefer "I just dont care about that s***", but then I'm not a fancy pants cog neuro skeptic dude.
10:15am 16/08/11 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
11512 posts
Any actual point here?


"I hate you, I hate everything about you, but I want you."
10:18am 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10407 posts
"I hate you, I hate everything about you, but I want you."

I still don't get you, but no matter.
10:19am 16/08/11 Permalink
taggs
5441 posts
This internal conflict creates "cognitive dissonance", and I have to change something about my thoughts or behaviours to resolve it.


does it necessarily have to be resolved?

hoggy sounds pretty comfortable both owning an iphone and thinking that apple can be a pack of jerks at times.
10:19am 16/08/11 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
17598 posts
imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
10:21am 16/08/11 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
4788 posts
I think the "I just don't give a f***" is Hogs resolution. Billy is hung up on it, hence the need to change his opinion (to be more like a Man and less like a little girl.)
10:21am 16/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12753 posts
I think the "I just don't give a f***" is Hogs resolution. Billy is hung up on it, hence the need to change his opinion (to be more like a Man and less like a little girl.)

Hehe pretty much every time you say to yourself "oh well who cares" you're doing what I described :)

Also, relevant:
FOSS Patents reports on news out of Germany that Apple has been granted a preliminary injunction barring Samsung from selling its Galaxy Tab 10.1 anywhere in the European Union with the exception of the Netherlands.

Also:
Last week, Samsung agreed to delay the launch of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia in response to Apple's request for a preliminary injunction in that country. Samsung argues that Apple's case in Australia addresses the U.S. version of its tablet device and that it plans to release a version specific for the Australian market, but the company has agreed to provide Apple with samples of the Australian version and has pushed back the device's debut there as the dispute continues to play out.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/09/apple-granted-injunction-barring-sale-of-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-in-european-union/
10:26am 16/08/11 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
11513 posts
how can you like a product made by a company you hate?

anyone who truly hated a company would simply not buy their products, I think Hoggy is just a typical anti Apple bandwagon type because it's "cool"
10:31am 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10408 posts
how can you like a product made by a company you hate?

I disagree with some s*** they do, but I don't "hate" them? The world isn't black and white like that.
anyone who truly hated a company would simply not buy their products, I think Hoggy is just a typical anti Apple bandwagon type because it's "cool"

I think you're wrong, because its Tuesday.
10:38am 16/08/11 Permalink
taggs
5442 posts
anyone who truly hated a company would simply not buy their products, I think Hoggy is just a typical anti Apple bandwagon type because it's "cool"


i reckon you're pretty s*** at reading comprehension.

he hasn't said once that he hates them. he's said he isn't super keen on their corporate/legal shenanigans but not so much so that it would prevent him from buying a bit of their kit that he likes.
10:38am 16/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12755 posts
The reason I chose not to post thermite's image myself is cause if you read the whole article you'll have seen that it's probably irrelevant:
As John at Edible Apple and others have pointed out, Apple's evidentiary submission is not limited to the inaccurate comparison photo, as Apple did also offer a number of other exhibits in support of its case, including some showing actual side-by-side photos of the iPad 2 and Galaxy Tab 10.1 rather than just promotional images. Consequently, it stands to reason that the judge's decision was not based entirely on the flawed comparison, although the inclusion of inaccurate information in Apple's submission certainly is a curious one.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/15/apples-evidence-in-samsung-tablet-case-reportedly-flawed/
10:39am 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3811 posts
The reason I chose not to post thermite's image myself is cause if you read the whole article you'll have seen that it's probably irrelevant:
irrelevant to the court case maybe, but its going to hurt PR with apple. (as Hoggy shows, that doesn't actually matter though)

And i would have thought that submitting deliberately misleading documents to the court would have a big effect.

last edited by lateral at 12:21:56 16/Aug/11
12:20pm 16/08/11 Permalink
3dee
Brisbane, Queensland
6627 posts
I'm saying I don't care enough about the legal wranglings between multi-bazillion dollar companies over a broken patent system to base purchasing a phone solely around it.

Something like this.

I buy Apple s*** because it's what I prefer to use. The operating system, the iPhone, etc etc. I may disagree with their own way of running s*** and battling legal things but I still prefer Mac OS X and iPhone enough that the legal bulls*** doesn't change my decision to keep using their products. It's not like their products change suddenly because they decide to sue someone over in their own country.
12:34pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6297 posts
If i don't like the way a company operates because it goes against my own values and ethics then you could bet i'd boycott the s*** out of it no matter how s*** hot the product is. But hey what can I say i'm a man of principles.

Anyone up for some Max Brenner?
12:48pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7789 posts
If i don't like the way a company operates because it goes against my own values and ethics then you could bet i'd boycott the s*** out of it no matter how s*** hot the product is. But hey what can I say i'm a man of principles.


So do you research every company before you make a decision on purchasing their product or service? Or do you make that decision based on what you see/hear in the media?
01:03pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10409 posts
If i don't like the way a company operates because it goes against my own values and ethics then you could bet i'd boycott the s*** out of it no matter how s*** hot the product is. But hey what can I say i'm a man of principles.

Bulls***.

What phone, computer and operating system do you use?
01:05pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7790 posts
Ooooh double quote.

Jinx.

You owe me a Coke.
01:06pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
3808 posts
The patent system on software is flat out broken.
If we're into boycotting big tech companies over misuse of patents, why stop at Apple though?
You'd better also boycott Microsoft, IBM, Google, Oracle, Amazon, Nokia...etc etc
01:07pm 16/08/11 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
6742 posts
thermite: even if that particular piece of evidence was accurate, it still wouldn't have changed the outcome. it was just one of many pieces to the puzzle
01:07pm 16/08/11 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
2552 posts
you don't see Apple going after the Openmoko project though even though it's also vaguely similar in design

when apple where the underdog innovator and not a company with more cash than the US government, it was ok for them to move and shake the big guys. now that they're the company with phat stacks they need to have a go at the innovator with Google's Android.

so it's more than just a poke with a big pointy stick at the emotional technology 'look and feel' thing

similarly you could notice that a Great Wall ute 'looks and feels' like a Toyota Hilux

this kind of thing helps market both products, even if Apple have a win with the patent technicalities
01:09pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
5823 posts
The patent system on software is flat out broken.


This. The patent system was supposed to protect the little guy from being destroyed by monster companies. Now, it's only ever doing the opposite and providing a way of massive corporations to grow more massive.

Patent law is insanely broken.

Surely it would be sensible to do something like cap the number of patents any single corporation can take out per year, or make them exponentially more expensive to apply for, which would solve this problem? By having an outright limit, this would hopefully mean they only choose their best N that they want to profit from, and the remaining become a gift (or tax) to society.

The patents Amazon have on online shopping are insane. This is the company that got a patent on one-click purchasing.
01:10pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
11480 posts

or make them exponentially more expensive to apply for, which would solve this problem?


Got shell company? That would be easily circumvented.
01:21pm 16/08/11 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
757 posts
f*** it,

the easier why to do this is as follows

all the money made from "lcd" tech goes to the british government

all computer based moneys go to f**gios family and other designers

all the OS money goes to Xerox because at the end of the day, it is a copy of the first GUI's done there

blue tooth money to ecricson

and so on till only a few companies are left, then GE will buy it all then the law suits will have ended for good!
01:21pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
5824 posts
Yup, and our very own CSIRO can take all the 802.11 casholas.
01:23pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6298 posts
So do you research every company before you make a decision on purchasing their product or service? Or do you make that decision based on what you see/hear in the media?
No I don't go researching every company/product but if i find out one way or another that a company is, oh let's just say, supports an army responsible for human rights violations, an issue which i'm passionate about, why would I compromise my values and consume the very same product that funding that cause? I may be less passionate about other matters which may or may not be unethical to others, but it's all about my value judgement what I think is the right thing to do. If Nike's products violate child labour laws then i'll do whatever I can to seek alternative products but you can bet I'd buy a nike soccer ball before having a cake a Max Brenner, irrespective of what your stance may be on said companies/products.

Oh it's not that I don't like apple only for their legal uncompetitive practices but I also genuinely think it's an inferior product in terms of functionality.
01:35pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7791 posts
Until all patents are void after 20 years from filing.


^ yeah

Other turntable manufacturers are now able to copy the legendary Technics SL1200. This turntable was developed back in the late 70's/Early 80's and has been the turntable of choice for a very long time since it was brought to market.

The patent recently (in the last few years) lapsed and now other manufacturers make near identical copies (of the actual workings of the turntable rather than asthetics).

Last year Technics, now owned by Panasonic, annouced the discontinuation of the SL1200 range :(
01:35pm 16/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12760 posts
No I don't go researching every company/product but if i find out one way or another that a company is, oh let's just say, supports an army responsible for human rights violations, an issue which i'm passionate about, why would I compromise my values and consume the very same product that funding that cause? I may be less passionate about other matters which may or may not be unethical to others, but it's all about my value judgement what I think is the right thing to do.

So it sounds like you only go by what you see/hear in the media, which would mean your choices are based more on ignorance than any sort of morality judgement.
01:40pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7792 posts
Oh it's not that I don't like apple only for their legal uncompetitive practices


It's not being uncompetitive if your competitor is copying your product, the very product (or component of a product) that gives you your competitive advantage over them.

See my post above - Technics developed a turntable that was superior to all others at the time. They protected this by obtaining a patent. They enjoyed the fruits of their labour for years, and deservedly so.

You could argue that patents encourage competition and innovation by forcing competitors, such as Samsung, to develop alternative products/ideas to compete with Apple, rather than just copy and bring nothing new to the market.

01:41pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6299 posts
Billy, no, not necessarily, although that maybe true in some cases.

My point is, if i don't like the way a company operates, irrespective of the extent of my knowledge of their practices, then I won't buy their product. I say this in reference to Hoggy's comment about buying a product simply because it suits his needs and not concerning himself with the company's practices/direction. That's just him. I beg to differ.

In either case, we have consumer choice and it doesn't always boil down to functionality/ease of use/taste or whatever the product category maybe. I'm sure you'll find studies out there identifying the influence of ethics on consumer choice and the decision making process.
01:42pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Jim
Ireland
12342 posts
I just came here to be smug

Apple are the best, I love all of my apple things that just work together so beautifully


my wife has been using apples for the last 5 years or so and has always had issues with syncing things between them, stuff breaking and needing to spend hours on the phone with apple, having them log in remotely and fix things.
Until a fortnight ago, I left her apple stuff alone because I didn't want to interfere with the appleness of it all and cause issues, so prior to then there's been no meddling on my part.

why did I finally step in after all this time?

because the hard disk in her macbook failed so she decided to buy a new macbook since the old one was getting a bit worn out in the keyboard and monitor department as well.

but no probs, she has an overpriced time capsule and has been running time machine backups regularly. she can just restore all her stuff into the new macbook and be on her merry way, right? she has all her passwords stored externally including the filevault master password, so it should be a breeze, apple style right?

nah.

filevault had apparently f***ed up the backups and due to several idiotic design issues (nice bastardisation of the underlying unix system btw) apple can't help her. behind the scenes, setup assistant can't make sense of the filevault sparsebundle, and s**** itself, dumping all the non-encrypted files into the top level root partition and refusing to create /Users/herusername

meanwhile in everything-is-shiny-land, the nice new login screen beckons, then presents the awesomely detailed error message "You cannot log into the filevault account 'herusername' at this time, an error occured". google that one for thousands of ppl basking in their smugness

I've spent days worth of time trying to jiggle this stuff into restoring her backups after apple washed their hands of it, and in the end had no choice but to manually rebuild her user account by bypassing all the idiotic apple utils that can't even provide plain access to the filesystem in the time capsule and hooking it up to a linux VM and repairing the sparsebundle from an earlier backup dir, mounting that and pulling her files out of there manually.

she loved being told "oooh yeh nasty, you shouldn't really use filevault it's a real pain for backups" by apple support people when the only warning that osx gave her when enabling it, was that she should make sure she keeps a note of the passwords in order to access the filevault in the event something goes wrong. so she did that, and still got reamed
02:07pm 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3812 posts
So it sounds like you only go by what you see/hear in the media, which would mean your choices are based more on ignorance than any sort of morality judgement.
how is listening to media in regards to the company practices of apple basing your arguments on ignorance? It's about the best information he is likely to get.
02:10pm 16/08/11 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
1943 posts
When you find yourself defending the corporation and not the product I think you should really assess just why it is you feel the need to do that.
02:16pm 16/08/11 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
317 posts


You could argue that patents encourage competition and innovation by forcing competitors, such as Samsung, to develop alternative products/ideas to compete with Apple, rather than just copy and bring nothing new to the market.


what about the xoom then? they're getting sued for using curved and black edges? the rest of the design has little to no design similarities. even the tablet has a completely different aspect ratio. would you then have no problems if google prevented iphone 5 from being released because of the new notification system and what not?
02:20pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7793 posts
how is listening to media in regards to the company practices of apple basing your arguments on ignorance? It's about the best information he is likely to get.


Because he's probably using good and services of businesses that don't align with his beleifs/ideals/morals as he doesn't know that they partake in such activities.

Therefore if you're going to take the moral high ground and avoid products/services provided by companies that do xyz, you really shouldn't just rely on the media, but rather take a pro-active approach and research everything you use/buy - otherwise, why bother?
02:21pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6300 posts
how is listening to media in regards to the company practices of apple basing your arguments on ignorance? It's about the best information he is likely to get.
Right, also my mortality judgement is based on what I already know. I'm not going to suspend it and continue to consume the product merely because I don't know everything that needs to be known about it. I act based on the knowledge that I have and adjust my actions based on any new information that I find.

mission: Don't blame me for singling out apple in an apple thread specifically pertaining to apple's business practices. In either case don't you think it'd be too impractical to research every single product before purchase? What you're saying is if I don't conduct extensive research about a company's corporate and strategic direction, supply chain and logistics management, operations management, public relations practice, product marketing and management etc then I simply should not buy products from that company. The "all or nothing" stance that you take is just ridiculous and is far fetched from reality. If that's the case I might as well not buy anything from anyone and move to an afghan mountain somewhere and herd mountain goats, you know, the ones that have extra spring in their jump.
02:24pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Farseeker
Brisbane, Queensland
1717 posts
Hi Jim, why didn't you ask google or QGL?

You'll then see a package called username.sparsebundle. Double-click it, enter your login password, and a copy of your home directory will mount. You can drag files off of this copy -- just don't drag any files onto it or delete any files! After you are done, eject the mounted home directory to avoid confusion. There isn't any reason that Apple couldn't automate the restore process; apparently they ran out of time when releasing version 10.5.


Good luck. Also definitely upgrade to 10.7 Lion, FileVault 2 is much improved.



Oh, and
I just came here to be smug

Apple are the best, I love all of my apple things that just work together so beautifully
02:29pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Farseeker
Brisbane, Queensland
1718 posts
Of all the patent crap (hi Lodsys), this one to me is the most valid. Samsung ripped off Apple's look and feel - if you're being honest it's as simple as that.

For all Google's whinging about losing Nortel patents to Apple and Microsoft, blah blah, Android has bigger issues than having to pay some licence fees for patents.

Majority of Android OEM's lose Linux distribution rights
02:43pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Jim
Ireland
12343 posts
I did ask google as mentioned. I didn't ask qgl because I didn't want to duplicate the same question yet again when it's already being asked all over the internet

the text you've pasted isn't relevant, since the sparsebundle files were corrupt, also mentioned =]
once I'd used external tools to repair the sparesebundle (from an earlier backup dir), osx was able to mount the backup file as per your paste, which is how I ended up manually restoring individual files

however, the sparsebundle from the 'Latest' backup dir wasn't recoverable and setup assistant doesn't give you the option of choosing an earlier backup to restore from. also, migration assistant can't be used on user accounts that were timevault'd, and finally, restore mode, while allowing you to choose which backup you'd like to restore from, tells us that we can't use those backups because they were created on an older macbook. useless utils
02:52pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Farseeker
Brisbane, Queensland
1719 posts
Ah good stuff. I'm surprised about not being able to restore because they were created by an older macbook. Defeats the purpose a bit? Could have put a hard disk in the old macbook and done the restore? I know this crap is different retrospectively, but just a thought.

The attention FileVault got in lion is definitely overdue. I was expecting them to remove the feature as used by few, headaches for many. That's a dent in their industry-leading customer satisfaction they wouldn't want.
03:02pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7794 posts
Don't you think it'd be too impractical to research every single product before purchase? What you're saying is if I don't conduct extensive research about a company's corporate and strategic direction, supply chain and logistics management, operations management, public relations practice etc then I simply should not buy products from that company. The "all or nothing" stance that you take is just ridiculous.


Well the flip side is that you only take note of what happens in the media and base your decisions on that, which is just as ridiculous.

If you need a pair of shoes, you need a pair of shoes. Nike got in the media about sweat shops, so you cross them off. You still need shoes. You buy Puma instead, however you have no idea if they fit your ideals, but you haven't heard anything, so you assume they are a role model coroporate citizen. (when in fact their upper leather is actually rare himalayan monkey hide)

So does that make buying Puma ok because you haven't seen them in the media doing something 'wrong'? For all you know they are worse than Nike, they just haven't been exposed to you.

All I'm saying is that boycotting a company because it gets some media time that goes against your beleifs/morals etc is silly if you just blindly buy a competitors item instead.

Big business is extremely competitive so it's highly likely that most products/services you buy won't align with your beliefs/morals as business look to cut costs, take advantage of cheap labour etc etc.


last edited by mission at 15:06:42 16/Aug/11
03:03pm 16/08/11 Permalink
taggs
5443 posts
i only buy shoes made of rare himalayan monkey hide, fyi
03:08pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12072 posts
Nice story Jim. Substantiates my long-held view that Apple devices and those like them are all great until you want to do anything that's even slightly out of the bounds of their design. When that's because of a malfunction, that's even s***tier.

I'll glady use Apple hardware for as long as people are still able to crack the software to enable lower level access. If they ever do succeed in making that impossible or too much of a hassle to be worth it, that's the day I stop.
03:11pm 16/08/11 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
7795 posts
Well it is nice and supple.
03:11pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
10410 posts
Where do you guys get your monkeys from? Does matchy do some sort of group buy?
03:19pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Jim
Ireland
12344 posts
yeh that did occur to me farseeker, and is still on the maybe list. she has one more appointment with the genius bar in belfast on thursday to try and sort out her iweb setup (you can't import from mobile me back into iweb, WTF) and if they can't resolve that and a couple of other lingering issues I'm going to get another hdd and try that


dan: yeh pretty annoying
the only apple thing I've had myself is my iphone which has been pretty good, although I only use it as a phone and mobile web browser, I don't sync it with anything or whatever. it's dieing on me now though, I have to press the home button 5-6 times before it responds, and it lags like a b**** even after a restart. I'll probably try wiping it clean and starting over to see if it's just a gummed up install or something, but it's probably time for a new phone. only had it 2-3 years I think

have dropped it twice though admittedly, although only from thigh-height onto carpet/floorboards, there's no external damage
03:23pm 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3813 posts
Of all the patent crap (hi Lodsys), this one to me is the most valid. Samsung ripped off Apple's look and feel - if you're being honest it's as simple as that.
not even nearly, you're talking about a copyright violation, not a patent violation. (you can't patent the way something looks, otherwise we wouldn't be able to have common interfaces on different vendors, and think of how hard that would make learning to drive a new car!), at best, they have a trademark or copyright case on their hands.
03:31pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Farseeker
Brisbane, Queensland
1720 posts
Oh hai! I do mean a patent violation,
The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 infringes 10 Apple patents, including the “look and feel,” and touchscreen technology of the iPad, Steven Burley, a lawyer for Apple, told Federal Court Justice Annabelle Bennett in Sydney yesterday.
I certainly agree that the patenting system is way broken, but in this particular case, I can see where they're coming from. No closer clone could be imagined.
03:49pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
6301 posts
Well the flip side is that you only take note of what happens in the media and base your decisions on that, which is just as ridiculous.
Like I said, I don't always base my opinions on the media, but if that's all I got then that's what I'm going to use to make my decision.

If you need a pair of shoes, you need a pair of shoes. Nike got in the media about sweat shops, so you cross them off. You still need shoes. You buy Puma instead, however you have no idea if they fit your ideals, but you haven't heard anything, so you assume they are a role model coroporate citizen. (when in fact their upper leather is actually rare himalayan monkey hide)
You see, i didn't know that. Last time I checked you weren't part of any media corporation but I still managed to learn something. I may or may not take rare himalayan monkey hide as a factor into my decision making process when buying shoes, but if the issue is of concern to me then I'll investigate it further and then base my decision on that.

So does that make buying Puma ok because you haven't seen them in the media doing something 'wrong'? For all you know they are worse than Nike, they just haven't been exposed to you.
Until I find out that Puma is made from rare himalayan monkey hide (on the account that rare himalayan monkey hide is of concern to me) then yes I will continue to buy Puma as an alternative to Nike. Nothing has changed for me really, I'm still buying/not buying based on what I know and I won't feel guilty about doing the wrong thing if I'm oblivious to it. If i have any doubt, then I will investigate further, from multiple resources if I'm keen.

Big business is extremely competitive so it's highly likely that most products/services you buy won't align with your beliefs/morals as business look to cut costs, take advantage of cheap labour etc etc.
Yeah i agree, but sometimes you have to do the best that you can given what you got.

Again i'll go back to the Max Brenner example. I walked into MB last year and had a banana split. Super. I later told my friends about it who then informed me that MB give financial support to the Israeli army. I also heard about it in the media basically saying the same thing. So I thought before I go for another banana split I'll do a bit of basic desktop research. What do you know, the Strauss group has 100% ownership of MB and is in fact involved explicit support of the Israeli military. Given my personal reservations about the Israeli Army I decided not to eat at MB any more. Had I not known that I would've continued to eat at MB, but now that I know, I don't and I might eat at Wendy's instead. If my research proved otherwise, I would've dismissed media attention and continued to eat MB.

I'm acting on the knowledge that I have based on various sources, be it word of mouth, media, personal experience etc and adjusting it through seeking alternatives. I think i've made my point clear and so with those words i'll be signing out. Peace.
03:55pm 16/08/11 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
4275 posts
Turns out we're defining cognitive dissonance in this thread. Good work everyone.
05:37pm 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3814 posts
The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 infringes 10 Apple patents, including the “look and feel,” and touchscreen technology of the iPad, Steven Burley, a lawyer for Apple, told Federal Court Justice Annabelle Bennett in Sydney yesterday.
Doesn't make the patents valid, it probably won't go to court because apple may lose a lot of patents in the process.

the look and feel "infringments".

Hardware and software trade dress claims

1) a rectangular product shape with all four corners uniformly rounded;
the front surface of the product dominated by a screen surface with black borders;
2) as to the iPhone and iPod touch products, substantial black borders above and below the screen having roughly equal width and narrower black borders on either side of the screen having roughly equal width;
3) as to the iPad product, substantial black borders on all sides being roughly equal in width;
4) a metallic surround framing the perimeter of the top surface;
5) a display of a grid of colorful square icons with uniformly rounded corners; 6) and
7) a bottom row of square icons (the “Springboard”) set off from the other icons and that do not change as the other pages of the user interface are viewed.

Packaging trade dress claims
1) a rectangular box with minimal metallic silver lettering and a large front-view picture of the product prominently on the top surface of the box;
a two-piece box wherein the bottom piece is completely nested in the top piece; and
2) use of a tray that cradles products to make them immediately visible upon opening the box.

06:46pm 16/08/11 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
1945 posts
All I'm saying is that boycotting a company because it gets some media time that goes against your beleifs/morals etc is silly if you just blindly buy a competitors item instead.
It seems like you are saying that you should turn a blind eye to the horrible s*** some corporations get up to and cast aside your ideals and ethics because you don't know whether or not other people are also doing horrible s***. He knows Nike made their fortune on child labor while paying sports stars ridiculous endorsement deals, so he makes the conscience decision to not support their business in the hopes that if enough people make the same ethical decision then Nike will change their practices.

Whether Puma use monkey leather or not has no bearing on the fact that Nike are a pack of c****. It really isn't a hard decision to make to be honest but if you feel the need to justify buying Nike shoes for any other reason than "Kobe told me to" than that's your problem.
06:48pm 16/08/11 Permalink
Everlong
4 posts
All Apple wanted was to delay Samsungs release, and thats what they got because they throw more lawyers at the courts. It's not about "intellectual property", it's about market share, and doing anything to f*** up the oposition. The real problem is our courts are being jammed up by this s***, and real cases are having delays. Apples products are fine, but they are just d*******s.
07:44pm 16/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3815 posts
The real problem is our courts are being jammed up by this s***,
not our courts thankfully, but its a bit infuriating that even though Australia doesn't support "design patents", that an American company can stop a Korean product being sold here using American law.
07:32am 17/08/11 Permalink
Kudos
Sydney, New South Wales
1067 posts
I bought an iphone. I wanted a Galaxy, but they weren't in Australia at the time. I hate my iphone. Terrible, terrible battery life and completely over rated. I won't deny I got one because 'everyone else was getting them', but as soon as my contract runs out, I'll actually buy a decent phone.
12:23am 18/08/11 Permalink
HyperJ
Brisbane, Queensland
368 posts
If apple had not brought out the iPad, woud samsung / blackberry / hp / etc etc etc be working their asses off trying to bring them out?

jussayin'

tablet pcs were around long before the iPad, at least 3 years prior
04:57am 18/08/11 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
862 posts
In Vietnam at the moment, saw on the news here that HTC are suing Apple over iPhone 4 stuff.. Can't find any more info though..
09:13am 18/08/11 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
324 posts
In Vietnam at the moment, saw on the news here that HTC are suing Apple over iPhone 4 stuff.. Can't find any more info though..


http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/267239,htc-sues-apple-as-patent-wars-continue.aspx

*edit* err, link is retarded. copy pasta or just read below

"HTC lawsuit looks to ban Apple sales in US as the two companies go to court again over patents.
HTC has sued Apple in the US, as it hopes to cut off US sales of iPhones, iPads, iPods and even Mac computers.

The Taiwanese firm claimed Apple had infringed three patents obtained in 2008 and 2010 relating to Wi-Fi technology, amongst other features.

Apple has previously filed complaints against HTC, as the patent battle between the two companies heats up.

"We are taking this action against Apple to protect our intellectual property, our industry partners, and most importantly our customers that use HTC phones," said HTC general counsel Grace Lei."


good on them for not taking it lying down. the whole patent war is f*****g ridiculous and I hope the US patent office will fix this absolute s*** fest. bizarre business when you have to spend $12.5 billion to protect yourself against vague patents.
09:39am 18/08/11 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
325 posts
tablet pcs were around long before the iPad, at least 3 years prior


in fact, samsung had a tablet early 1990s.

http://www.androidtabletfanatic.com/android-tablet-news/16-old-skool-tablets-rocking-it-before-the-ipad/
09:41am 18/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12765 posts
It seems like you are saying that you should turn a blind eye to the horrible s*** some corporations get up to and cast aside your ideals and ethics because you don't know whether or not other people are also doing horrible s***. He knows Nike made their fortune on child labor while paying sports stars ridiculous endorsement deals, so he makes the conscience decision to not support their business in the hopes that if enough people make the same ethical decision then Nike will change their practices.

Whether Puma use monkey leather or not has no bearing on the fact that Nike are a pack of c****. It really isn't a hard decision to make to be honest but if you feel the need to justify buying Nike shoes for any other reason than "Kobe told me to" than that's your problem.

Nope you've missed the point, deadlyf. Claiming that your making a moral decision by not choosing to buy Nike is silly if it's based on the ignorance of the choice you make instead of Nike. Justifying buying Nike because Kobe told me to is as a good of a reason as buying Puma because Nike has slave factories.
05:16pm 18/08/11 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
4293 posts
Endorsing the same practice with another company will not change the nature of the industry. You'd have to change to a company who actually had different practices to make any standing. It's not like nike will stop using slave labour because their sales have gone down because their rival, who contracts the same slave company is getting more sales.

Though if you changed your habit to buying shoes from a real shoemaker locally, and others too, nike can make a demographic judgement that to remain competitive, the market demands the shoes be made locally.

Of course, what happens to the slaves when they have no work? If they could earn more elsewhere, they would be.
05:25pm 18/08/11 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
1952 posts
Claiming that your making a moral decision by not choosing to buy Nike is silly if it's based on the ignorance of the choice you make instead of Nike.
What you are talking about is the difference between idealism and practicality though. Ideally Fixah would have all the information he needs to make the best decision or he would have all the time in the world to find the information he needs.

However because he isn't an investigative journalist being paid to travel the world and check on the working conditions of factories used by major corporations and because he is an important businessman with several wives to take care of and doesn't have time to put in several hours of research into every company he wants to make a purchase from, he has to work with the information he is given.

Whoever he chooses to buy his shoes from is irrelevant, it's who he chooses not to buy from that is based on knowledge and personal moral choice.

I honestly don't get your argument, it's like you are saying that because he doesn't know every detail of every action taken around the world then he has no right to make any decisions at all. If he knows Nike are d**** why is it wrong for him to make a moral decision not to buy from them even if he remains ignorant to the workings of another company he does buy from? I'm guessing I have missed the point because I can't see the point you are making.
06:00pm 18/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12769 posts
You seem to get my point, and you've responded to it quite well... I'm kinda being swayed by your argument. I definitely agree that pragmatically it's unrealistic to have all the info about everything at any time, and it's probably inevitable we'll have to make decisions without all the facts. I'm really taking issue with the idea of someone taking the moral high ground by choosing product Y instead of product X, only because of negative media about product X. More specifically:
Whoever he chooses to buy his shoes from is irrelevant, it's who he chooses not to buy from that is based on knowledge and personal moral choice.

I disagree if we're talking about the morality of the decision to buy one product over another, which I *think* was the original example. Obviously I can choose not to buy from Nike because I don't like their exploitation of cheap labor, but at the same time I could choose to buy from Puma (let's pretend they have the same dodgy factories as Nike), which would contradict my moral choice of avoiding Nike. To make this example more similar to the one you're talking about, I might only have information about Nike, but not about Puma. So, I choose NOT to buy Nike because I've heard they are dodgy, and instead I shop at Puma because I haven't heard anything about them. I don't think you can claim to make moral decisions based on selective information - it almost defeats the purpose of morals. If you do rely on stuff that's presented to you in the media (which I actually agree is fairly reasonable), all you can say about your morals is that you rely on the portrayal of brands in the media, which, like I said, I don't think is really "moral" and obviously open to all sorts of bias (eg. Apple's case).
07:02pm 18/08/11 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6472 posts
Now unbanned in all the EU except Germany (link).

While I like the iPhone4 and think it's a solid product, Apple in my mind are still total douches and this sort of silly action just reinforces my view.
08:11pm 18/08/11 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
1726 posts
Apple are just s***ting dacks because samsung have made a unit that is totally f*****g cool.

Lightweight, big screen, dual core blah blah as ur all well aware.

Apple now have to pull something magical out of the hat to compete.

They have lost the market if they can't do so, due to the f***** stupid charger size, not being able to blue tooth non apple products etc.

F*** you apple.

The iphone4/ipad etc are awesome devices, but because their head is up their asses they are going backwards.
10:13pm 18/08/11 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
6845 posts
haha apple.. someone kicking sand in your face in the sandpit?
02:16am 19/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3835 posts
Sorry for the bump, but relevant Prior art dating back to 1968. Proof Apple stole the design in the first place.

Take that, apple fans.
02:45pm 24/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12785 posts
LOL that's awesome. I was hoping he would use swipe gestures to change the channel though :(
02:56pm 24/08/11 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3361 posts
LOL that's awesome. I was hoping he would use swipe gestures to change the channel though :(


that will be exhibit E, a clip from minority report.
03:00pm 24/08/11 Permalink
Coldy
Brisbane, Queensland
168 posts
All I can say is, f*** apple & f*** Steve, but god I love my iPad and iPhone4...



How's that?
03:53pm 24/08/11 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
13198 posts
haha will be hilarious if samsung wins with that defence.
03:57pm 24/08/11 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3362 posts
haha will be hilarious if samsung wins with that defence.


SMH article has an opinion from a lawyer saying it is a viable defence.

However, Mark Summerfield, a senior associate with Melbourne intellectual property law firm Watermark, believes Samsung may have a case.

Summerfield said that the Apple patent referenced in the Kubrick defence is a design patent that protects the form (i.e. physical appearance) rather than function. This is distinct to a utility patent, which concerns how the device is used.

"Generally science fiction is not legitimate prior art to a utility patent, because it does not provide an 'enabling disclosure', i.e. it does not inform the public how to make the fictional apparatus," said Summerfield, who writes the patent blog patentology.com.au.

But he said there was no reason why science fiction could not be "invalidating prior art" to a registered design.

"For example, if I were to copy the Star Trek communicator as a novelty mobile phone, I would have no right to claim a monopoly in that design. I did not devise it myself (i.e. I am not the true designer/author)," said Summerfield.

"I think that Samsung probably has a viable defence here."
04:00pm 24/08/11 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
6763 posts
that would be awesome.
04:07pm 24/08/11 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
6486 posts
Take that, apple fans.

LOL at one of the related videos:

04:09pm 24/08/11 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
13200 posts
lol that reminds me, rodney mckay + others were always walking around with tablets in stargate atlantis.
04:15pm 24/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12787 posts
As humorous as I think it would be if Samsung win because of the 2001 clip, I think it'd be yet another example of how ridiculously poor the patent system is.
04:21pm 24/08/11 Permalink
Jayman
Brisbane, Queensland
446 posts
Is that clip all there is to it? Because it isn't even lifted off the table. Who's to say its a tablet device at all but table with screens built in / on top. I'd argue that thing isn't portable at all from the evidence shown.
04:26pm 24/08/11 Permalink
lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
3836 posts
being portable isn't related to a design patent.
05:12pm 24/08/11 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
12789 posts
lol I liked this in response to Samsung using the 2001 clip:
Now, I’m no lawyer but Samsung would probably be better served to use their own prior art, perhaps something like this Photoframe from 2006. What do you think?

http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/samsung-photoframe.jpg?w=425&h=328
http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/23/samsungs-prior-art-argument-against-ipad-design-stanley-kubricks-2001-a-space-odyssey/
05:36pm 24/08/11 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
1731 posts
Hows about f*** everyone?

Apple are falling behind and are looking for anyway to get infront.

Possibly the reason why Iphone5 is delayed, delayed (other than a strategic marketing ploy) could possibly be the fact that samsung and htc are starting to bring out some really good quality phones with some awesome features (sony ericcsson too i might add).

Apple need to change. Although they have a strong market still at my store we still sell out of iphones from week to week. Which I cant understand considering iphone4 is july 2010. S2 / Sensation etc are July 2011 etc. And maybe realized that what they were going to release wasnt as good?

Apple for a start need to allow bluetooth between non apple products and change the stupid charging port to something like micro usb.

sorry.
06:07pm 24/08/11 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
19629 posts
I wasn't aware that Apple were falling behind or that the iphone 5 was delayed.
06:11pm 24/08/11 Permalink
Mantra
Crusty old man
Brisbane, Queensland
3024 posts
then presents the awesomely detailed error message "You cannot log into the filevault account 'herusername' at this time, an error occured"
This is probably my biggest gripe with Apple stuff. What the f*** are you supposed to do with that information? Just say, "Ah, well, error occured, guess I'll give up."

My first experience with this idiocy was on an original Apple Macintosh. I started it up, it makes a weird farting sound, and shows me this...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Sad_mac.png

Helpful!

Also, my first iPod , just showed me an Apple logo with a line through it. I took it to an Apple store and they said "Yeah, that happens sometimes. I need to send it away to be reset." I wanted a new one and he explained to me that it's not broken, just the software does that sometimes. I was completely WTF?!

By the way, I got it back (a month later), and a week later it did exactly the same thing. I took it back again, and a different guy said "Yeah, it does that sometimes." At that point I lost my s*** and demanded a new one, he refused (cause it wasn't broken) but booked it in to be fixed (despite it not being broken apparently). He rang me back 6 weeks later to tell me my iPod was ready and I told him to go f*** himself with it.

ps - I have an iPhone 4, it's great as long as it works! :)
06:23pm 24/08/11 Permalink
bargain
Sydney, New South Wales
1826 posts
Apple are falling behind and are looking for anyway to get infront.


lol, way to just spout s*** - They are now THE most valuable firm in the US. Hardly 'falling behind'...

btw, I don't like apple, don't own any of their products, and doubt I ever will, but I can recognise that they know what they're doing.

last edited by bargain at 18:26:36 24/Aug/11
06:25pm 24/08/11 Permalink
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