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TSA (American airline security) encounter and policies
Plasma
1191 posts
Check out: http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

An interesting post by someone a few days ago about an encounter they had with the TSA security people at an American airport.

This guy talks about (and has some footage/audio of himself) the TSA attempting to make him walk through one of those x-ray machines we've been hearing about for a while now.

He was randomly chosen to go through the scanner (instead of the metal detector); and he opted out of that because of the risks he perceved them to have; and also refused a pat down that involved a grope - not just a regular pat down -but accepted going through a metal detector as if he was not selected in the first place.

He then attempts to leave the airport and some security people try and force him to walk through them or face a civil suit of $10,000 and other misc threats.

I'm glad we don't have that sort of stuff here in Australia (yet...?) as its just ridiculous; and from reading his article I would hope those with the threats and other obvious power trip bulls*** were just fired.
09:52pm 16/11/10 Permalink
system
Internet
--
09:52pm 16/11/10 Permalink
myWhiteWolf
Brisbane, Queensland
2990 posts
good on him for standing up to the security theatre
10:13pm 16/11/10 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
2338 posts
While we are on the subject of American airline security, it seems that japan

has been forced to indefinitely stop accepting any items over 453g (16 freedom ounces) in weight for air shipment to the US or its various island territories.


Apparantly due to stop all the bombs those democracy hating japanese are sending.
10:31pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Crakaveli
USA
4627 posts
Sounds like a d*******.

bet they all get pissy when some durka blows another plane up. "omg the government was supposed to protect us!"

Seriously stop being f*****s and just let them cop a feel of your nads and move on.
10:33pm 16/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7169 posts
Those x-ray machines freak me out.

I would do a strip search provided I had time, always a laugh, I've had enough from the QLD police to be comfortable.

F*** getting blasted by x-rays, there's a reason the operators are behind f***off lead shields.
10:34pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
8201 posts
bet they all get pissy when some durka blows another plane up. "omg the government was supposed to protect us!"

Seriously stop being f*****s and just let them cop a feel of your nads and move on.

How many peope have died because of airline terrorism? How many have died because of human or engineering error?

How many people are saved by people yielding their liberty at airports?
11:01pm 16/11/10 Permalink
myWhiteWolf
Brisbane, Queensland
2991 posts
Seriously stop being f*****s and just let them cop a feel of your nads and move on.
got kids? is it alright if they search your kids for "bombs" in the same way because you could be hiding them in their clothes? how about your wife / girlfriend?
11:24pm 16/11/10 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
19065 posts
It's pretty crazy, I read the blog post - didn't bother with ~20mins worth of footage though...

I can't say I've ever experience anything like that, granted I've only been to the states once and that was in 2007 so the x-ray machines weren't in place then.

I too would have a problem with having to go through an x-ray machine, though truth be told, I don't know if I'd have the balls to say no. Unless they make it pretty clear to me it's optional, in which case I'd decline.

It's always good to hear stuff like this to get an understanding of what's going on over there in the US of A.
11:25pm 16/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18624 posts
Are there any reports saying just how many rems (or whatever) you are exposed to when you walk through the x-ray machines?
11:26pm 16/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7170 posts
I too would have a problem with having to go through an x-ray machine, though truth be told, I don't know if I'd have the balls to say no. Unless they make it pretty clear to me it's optional, in which case I'd decline.
I followed these machines closely during their introduction (but not after).

I thought you could either do the x-ray or do a closed room strip search.

I have a feeling the guy wouldn't have been too happen with the alternative though.
11:27pm 16/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18625 posts
Cool so if you followed them closely you can link me up with something that shows how much radiation you are exposed to when you are scanned.
11:28pm 16/11/10 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
2339 posts
If anyone wants to look at my fat ugly ass through an xray machine I think they have been damaged well and truly beyond what any war could show them, so I feel that is punishment enough for making me do something like that.
11:29pm 16/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7171 posts
Cool so if you followed them closely you can link me up with something that shows how much radiation you are exposed to when you are scanned
I can't even remember what I did last week, let alone multiple years ago when I was interested in this s***.

All I know is if I had the option of the x-ray or a quick strip search, I would do the later.
11:33pm 16/11/10 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1640 posts
so its a choice of being strip searched or groped.

in other words, would you like 1 penis up your bum or 2 ?
11:47pm 16/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7172 posts
Stripped search != cavity search.

Them poke around your penis/balls/bumhole for 5 seconds and you're good to go, the bad fact is it's always a male :S

Never had a cavity search so I can't comment.
11:50pm 16/11/10 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
6985 posts
There's nothing quick about the searches, they're designed to make you choose the X-ray next time.
11:54pm 16/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7173 posts
I'll have to take your word for it, I haven't traveled to the US.
11:56pm 16/11/10 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4101 posts
While it's a real issue, i wonder how many people are thinking "ok here's a quick and easy way for me to get my 15 minutes of internet fame", really "If you touch my junk i'll have you arrested", the guy was probably hoping to start a meme.
11:59pm 16/11/10 Permalink
MoSFXx
Gold Coast, Queensland
173 posts
Yeah heard this on ABC radio this morning; the guy sounds like he's just trying to get a bit of fast fame, I've been to the US twice in the last two years and their airport security is fine they got to do what they got to do because if they don't who gets the blame with another plane gets hijacked?
He's paid for a airfare to wherever he is going, made plans to be there then throws it all away to prove a point that he doesn't want to be searched the guy is lucky he wasn't locked up on terrorist charges!
12:15am 17/11/10 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
6422 posts
i think i would prefer if the airport man searched my junk then the alternative of getting blowed the f*** up by a c*** n balls bomb
12:46am 17/11/10 Permalink
Insom
Brisbane, Queensland
3643 posts
can't they just x-ray the mulims?
02:13am 17/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18626 posts
So if none of you have any idea just how much radiation is applied to you from the machines, why are you all so worried about being scanned? (when I say everyone, I mean CHUB)

last edited by fpot at 02:40:19 17/Nov/10
02:31am 17/11/10 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
191 posts
These full body scan units don't give off radiation like normal x-ray machines, AFAIK because they use electromagnetic waves to get the image theres no ionizing radiation.

Confirm/deny?
03:38am 17/11/10 Permalink
dranged
USA
1789 posts
LAX is definitely more nuts recently, queues and more queues. Next time I'm bringing a wheelchair.

Re xray, I'm not particularly worried, The US being the super litegatious to me means the dosage has to be extraordinarily weak, or weak in the quantities I would be exposed to it.
05:08am 17/11/10 Permalink
stinky
USA
3566 posts
I just got back from Sacramento/Napa and I planned my trip specifically to make sure all airports I passed through did not have the back scatter machines in them.

f***.that.s***.
06:04am 17/11/10 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
30645 posts
im happy that mr freedom and liberty idiot got fined $10000

perhaps next time he'll be less of an idiot and just go through the security thats designed to protect him
06:07am 17/11/10 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
2869 posts
I have to point out it's rare for TSA workers to be as bad as the OP makes them out to be. Every time I've been to America they've mostly been friendly and helpful to me, even with matters of security. I've had a couple of random patdowns (not full ones though), random bag searches, bomb material checks etc and they've all been courteous towards me.

As an aside, the dude comes off as a d***. It's a condition of flight that you may be subject to such security checks, if he didn't agree he shouldn't have bought airline tickets and instead used another form of transportation. The TSA seemed to act professionally towards him but he was being stubborn and all "stick it to the man, yeah!"
08:15am 17/11/10 Permalink
Taipan
Brisbane, Queensland
3248 posts
Been on 4 trips to the USA now and through between 4 and 6 TSA check points each trip. On the whole they aren't bad albeit rude as f*** most of the time but given the numbers of people they deal with daily you could cut them some slack.

The one thing the TSA seem incredibly good at is increasing the length of a line. Even when things appear to be moving well somehow one of them will find a way to f*** it up.

I personally have only had trouble with one TSA person and that was at a small airport, I guess they didn't get much action there. I was bailed up for having a 3/4 used 120ml tooth paste tube in my carry on bag. This happened when I was trying to get on my first of 3 flights to return home to australia. The tube of tooth paste in question had already past through 2 TSA checks when I began the trip and didn't cause any hassles.

Now you aren't suposed to carry any container of any type that is larger 100ml. However it doesn't take a f*****g genius to see that a 120ml container thats 3/4 empty doesn't pose much of a threat. Don't get me wrong I am not going to get all pissed over having to hand over a nearly dead tooth paste tube. But f*** me some common sense would be nice.

The chick that pulled me up over this informed me that under no circumstances were any containers of any type larger 100Ml to go on board the plane even if the container is empty. I had no idea fresh f*****g air posed such a huge threat.

Now keep in mind I am never a smartass with secruity when I travel, it's just not worth the hassle. This stupid b**** pulled me out of line and put me and my bag through 3 more searches with the aid of another TSA guy. I was pulled out of the line to avoid holding people up but my bag was put back through the X-ray twice more and scrutinized at length. Of course doing this caused the line to grow rapidly. This isn't security this is stupidity.

The other thing I noticed about American security is that they tend to treat anyone that isn't an American like they are mentally retarded. It's not a case of them seeing you do crap that indicates you are stupid they just assume automatically that you are. It's pretty funny though when you consider that the average TSA employee would probably struggle to get a job sweeping floors anywhere else.
08:20am 17/11/10 Permalink
Charlie
Brisbane, Queensland
2153 posts
Deyyyy tooook ouuuurrrrr liberrrrtyyyyy. Damn fgt communist red government! Oh wait, no .. no ... not you China, I love you, keep trading with me!
08:30am 17/11/10 Permalink
imitation
Brisbane, Queensland
4539 posts
The only thing that worries me about these changes is that it means potentially less drugs will get in to the country. Other than that wtf do I care if some random dude sees my junk or pats me down. This has been happening for f*****g years at sporting events and concerts where you can be patted down. This isn't the start of some authoritarian super state it's just a bit of common sense to secure what we can in really a fairly non-invasive way. You guys would probably prefer racial profiling right?
08:31am 17/11/10 Permalink
Charlie
Brisbane, Queensland
2155 posts
This has been happening for f*****g years at sporting events and concerts where you can be patted down.


But didn't you hear? Some random dude on the intertoobs said that it's not a normal pat down, that they're designed so you will go through the scanner next time!1 I hear they fondle your gonads while forcing you to watch a video of them raping your grandmother set to a Bjork theme.
08:51am 17/11/10 Permalink
myWhiteWolf
Brisbane, Queensland
2992 posts
This has been happening for f*****g years at sporting events and concerts where you can be patted down.
how many people go there out of choice? its an entertainment venue, flying is about transport that most people don't really have that much of a choice about. last time i flew i didn't purchase the ticket at all, i didn't sign a thing, i only held on to the ticket as i went through security.

Also, isn't the sniffer thing that the Australian airports use good enough to detect explosive material? i came up positive on my shoe for urea, which was probably just urine that i would have stepped in in the bathroom about 5 hours earlier. (they touch the top of the shoe, which was enough to pick up the contents of the bottom of my shoe).

metal detector picks up weapons, sniffer thing picks up explosives. i don't really care about picking up drugs as they don't present a danger on the flight. And honestly I'm more concerned about the plain falling out of the sky by itself due to engine explosions currently.
09:39am 17/11/10 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
10799 posts
The main issue I've had with security personal in the US (Not only TSA, but any form for law enforcement there) is that so many of the ones I've observed absolutely suck at diplomacy. They know the extent of their power and they seem to like just going straight to authority mode instead of trying the easy way first -- you know, actually taking a brief second to explain to someone why it is exactly that they're being ordered to do something.

As far as the X-Ray Scanners go. Apparently they do expose the user to an amount of radiation and pilot unions are getting pretty vocal about it.
"The principal issue is not only privacy. It's total radiation exposure," he said.

"The allowable limit for radiation workers is 20 mSv per annum. And the average pilot, depending on where they're flying, gets between three and six.

"For instance, if you fly to London or over to South America it's equivalent to a chest X-ray every time you fly.

"So radiation is cumulative and going through these machines would just add to the radiation, the total radiation the crew are getting exposed to."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/09/3061799.htm

But then, your average passenger shouldn't have to worry about this. Unless they're a crazy "Up in the Air" style frequent flyer.
09:45am 17/11/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
8202 posts
I think Governments demanding the right to take invasive pictures of its citizens is an issue.

Its an epic invasion of privacy that everyone seems to think is fine because a couple of planes stacked into some buildings ten years ago. Does it not seem odd that security measures continue to be tightened while the background threat and incidence of air terrorism has plummeted? Why do we need this now, what credible threat is being addressed by this expensive and invasive screening technology?

Planes aren't being hijacked anymore (in the west) because security was lifted after sep 11. Terror events against the West have shifted to softer targets. It seems like that event is an excuse for ever-increasing measures, and its all fine because the image of burning skyscrapers is so iconic.
10:56am 17/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32328 posts
http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/04/belt_removal_at_security_checkpoint is also interesting - story of an airline pilot trying to get through
10:58am 17/11/10 Permalink
gamer
1434 posts
...
Its an epic invasion of privacy that everyone seems to think is fine because a couple of planes stacked into some buildings ten years ago. Does it not seem odd that security measures continue to be tightened while the background threat and incidence of air terrorism has plummeted? Why do we need this now, what credible threat is being addressed by this expensive and invasive screening technology?

...


Couldn't agree more Hoggy...
11:06am 17/11/10 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
5927 posts
11:14am 17/11/10 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
6829 posts
I'm pretty much not keen on ever travelling through an American airport. It is a shame, but if you get off the plane and get put through that s*** as your first experience there, then I don't think that is the sort of country I'd want to go to.
11:19am 17/11/10 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
11546 posts
when i was leaving london 4 years ago they were trialing the body scanner at heathrow. i was hoping they wouldnt pick me out of the queue to go through it since they had made my friend who was further down the line go through it. i was f*****g lucky, they grabbed the guy infront of me and the one behind me.

last edited by ravn0s at 12:10:47 17/Nov/10
12:09pm 17/11/10 Permalink
arclore
Brisbane, Queensland
497 posts
I thought I read the other day these things have some type of cancer concern.
12:15pm 17/11/10 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
3089 posts
So basically all you need to avoid the full body scanners is have someone go ahead of you, chuck up a stink, and then they give everyone else the minimul check because they are too busy with you.
12:26pm 17/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32331 posts
hahahaah faceman
So basically all you need to avoid the full body scanners is have someone go ahead of you, chuck up a stink, and then they give everyone else the minimul check because they are too busy with you.
nope. they put you in a queue and you wait until they get to you. that was my experience going through SFO, anyway.
01:15pm 17/11/10 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3189 posts
nope. they put you in a queue and you wait until they get to you. that was my experience going through SFO, anyway.

LAX a couple of weeks ago someone in front of me was taking a while to clear the full body scanner (not sure why - wasn't paying attention), so the TSA agent told me to go through the metal detector next to it. Maybe you look like more of a threat than me trog?
01:50pm 17/11/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
8204 posts
I'm pretty much not keen on ever travelling through an American airport. It is a shame, but if you get off the plane and get put through that s*** as your first experience there, then I don't think that is the sort of country I'd want to go to.

Yeh, this. I have a desire to visit the US and spend some time there.

I'm a law abiding, model citizen. But until they stop treating me like a criminal by default my AUD tourist dorra won't be turning into USD. I wonder if anyone is tracking this s*** and working out how badly its hurting the economy?
01:51pm 17/11/10 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
11547 posts
the bandanna probably didnt help
01:52pm 17/11/10 Permalink
Mordecai
Victoria
360 posts
This isn't security this is stupidity.

I thought it was Sparta?

Actually its more like a power trip. She has this job thats meant to help people and she's on a power trip so is making it difficult for anyone she feels like making it difficult for. She probably had a low IQ and learning difficulties so took her anger out on you.
05:14pm 17/11/10 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
5930 posts
05:44pm 17/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4645 posts
You see, if everyone did that^ the system would break down and a different method would have to be used, almost certainly more comfortable for the passenger.
By accepting X-rays at Airports we are opening the door to X-Rays at shopping malls/cinemas/rock concerts/sports stadiums.
Fight the battle today or lose the war tomorrow.
The War on Privacy.
06:11pm 17/11/10 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
2689 posts
Trog does look pretty shifty though.

http://trog.qgl.org/up/trog-profiled.jpg
06:23pm 17/11/10 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
6834 posts
Haha Penn is such a champ, for a while he was pimping this product http://securityedition.com/ It's a piece of metal that has the Bill of Rights printed on it, so there is irony when they try to confiscate it from you at airports.
06:26pm 17/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7175 posts
Hah, that was very good :)

He usually pisses me off.
06:40pm 17/11/10 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
3090 posts
If the terrorists realy wanted to get something on the plane, wouldnt they just shove something up there ass that isnt metal?

Like 2 liquids that react together when mixed, in seperate bottles up there ass.
07:01pm 17/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4646 posts
08:23pm 17/11/10 Permalink
imitation
Brisbane, Queensland
4541 posts
Faceman would prefer racial profiling.

This is not an epic invasion of privacy ffs - it's actually removing the strip searches which will be conducted which is far more invasive.
09:36pm 17/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7179 posts
Understandable faceman.

Children are regularly used in drugs trafficking, along with old people, handicapped and disabled.

It is what it is, people have been packing children, retards and wheelchairs for decades.
09:41pm 17/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4648 posts
http://www.prisonplanet.com/shocker-tsa-has-been-molesting-children-for-years.html

A 3yrold girl being touched up by TSA.
People are being treated like Prisoners of War.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ has a lot of stories on this currently.
11:25pm 17/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18641 posts
haha, prisonplanet.
11:30pm 17/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7182 posts
It's an airport, get over it.

The kid in the video was having a spaz out, the TSA agent seems to be quite a noob but to call that "molesting" is being a drama queen.

I'm not sure what your problem is? Children have been carrying drugs for decades.
11:38pm 17/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18643 posts
The link saying 'shocker tsa has been molesting children for years' is patently ridiculous.
11:42pm 17/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32346 posts
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/11/tsa_backscatter.html is a good summary of the events that have occured in the last week or so. Good to see Schneier, amongst others, have a lawsuit against the TSA to stop some of this madness.

i only just read the article in the OP here (it was linked in my link above; somehow I read this whole thread without reading the original post). It is amazing. Thank f*** there are a few Americans that are not willing to be pussies about the whole thing.
02:26pm 21/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4666 posts
02:40pm 21/11/10 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
807 posts
Oooohhh, all this talk about strip searches has me excited about my pending trip
03:06pm 21/11/10 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
5940 posts
11:53am 23/11/10 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3198 posts
Yeah I'm excited about flying back into the US tomorrow...
12:04pm 23/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7219 posts
That's not a strip search Faceman, there's nothing sensitive about a males torso.

A strip search for a male is genitals, for women it includes tits too.
12:08pm 23/11/10 Permalink
arclore
Brisbane, Queensland
527 posts
Urine!

A TRAVELLER has been left humiliated, crying and covered in his own urine following an "invasive" pat-down airport search.

Thomas Sayer, from Michigan, US, was travelling to a wedding in Florida earlier this month when the incident occurred.

Mr Sayer, 61, was selected for the enhanced search after going through a scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport

A bladder cancer survivor, Mr Sayer says the scanner must have picked up his urostomy bag - which collects his urine from an opening in his stomach.

“I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes” Mr Sayer told MSNBC.

Mr Sayer said that the security officials ignored him when he tried to tell them about his medical condition until they removed his top and his urostomy bag became visible.

“One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me.

"Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants.”

Mr Sayer said he was told to go and that he was not offered an apology or assistance.

He was left to walk through the airport soaked in urine, and it wasn't until his plane had taken off that he was able to clean up.


I'd be totally pissed off
12:12pm 23/11/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
8240 posts
From trog's link:
Exactly two things have made airline travel safer since 9/11: reinforcement of c***pit doors, and passengers who now know that they may have to fight back. Everything else -- Secure Flight and Trusted Traveler included -- is security theater. We would all be a lot safer if, instead, we implemented enhanced baggage security -- both ensuring that a passenger's bags don't fly unless he does, and explosives screening for all baggage -- as well as background checks and increased screening for airport employees.

Then we could take all the money we save and apply it to intelligence, investigation and emergency response. These are security measures that pay dividends regardless of what the terrorists are planning next, whether it's the movie plot threat of the moment, or something entirely different.

QFMFT
12:16pm 23/11/10 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
11575 posts
story behind facemans vid

Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and, while he didn’t set it off, he was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn’t complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn’t end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn’t hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, that’s when this video begins.


http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/11/why-was-this-boy-strip-searched-at-airport-security/

last edited by ravn0s at 13:00:12 23/Nov/10
12:58pm 23/11/10 Permalink
Midda
Brisbane, Queensland
5803 posts
I'd be totally pissed off

More like pissed ON, amirite?
01:41pm 23/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4677 posts
Some guy stripped down to his undy-chundys before the pat down and got arrested LOL
02:12pm 23/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7220 posts
Some guy stripped down to his undy-chundys before the pat down and got arrested LOL
Wow, you're joking right?

That should be completely legal.
02:14pm 23/11/10 Permalink
funky
Brisbane, Queensland
944 posts
he got arrested because he refused the pat-down as well, not because he stripped to his jocks

he stripped down and pretty much said 'you don't need to pat me down or scan me now, you can see i don't have anything on me' link

also, there is an article on smh.com.au that says that hundreds of body scans from some airport have been found on the internet after they were improperly stored by US Marshalls....this was also after the TSA said nothing was going to be stored.
02:19pm 23/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18676 posts
Surely FaceMan has reached the limits of complete bulls*** allowed to be posted? His last two posts have been a video shown completely out of context, and then just something he has completely made up.
02:25pm 23/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7221 posts
he got arrested because he refused the pat-down as well, not because he stripped to his jocks

he stripped down and pretty much said 'you don't need to pat me down or scan me now, you can see i don't have anything on me' link
That's fair enough.

If I had to regularly deal with such searches I would just drop to my undies in public just to make them more uncomfortable and let them do their thing, I have no shame.

That being said, I don't have to deal with these searches on a regular basis so I would just comply and go about my holiday.
02:25pm 23/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4685 posts
02:48pm 24/11/10 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
11385 posts
I just got back from the US - the only annoying thing about TSA security were the wait times, but they were comparable to any busy part of an airport. Everyone seemed quite nice and friendly and just wanted to get people through to their flights. I guess you gotta remember that although there are some horror stories, they are outweighed probably 1000:1 by the mundane, nothing-happened-stories.

The protests will likely be a huge non-event, cause there really wasn't anything to protest, IMO.
10:45am 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32381 posts
I just got back from the US - the only annoying thing about TSA security were the wait times, but they were comparable to any busy part of an airport. Everyone seemed quite nice and friendly and just wanted to get people through to their flights. I guess you gotta remember that although there are some horror stories, they are outweighed probably 1000:1 by the mundane, nothing-happened-stories.

The protests will likely be a huge non-event, cause there really wasn't anything to protest, IMO.
nothing to protest, except gross violation of civil liberties and the increasing sheepification of the US and the western world as a result of a handful of nutbags almost ten years ago.

I'll be opting for the patdown for sure if I have to go back to the US again
11:20am 25/11/10 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
11388 posts
Yeh I thought I worded that poorly - what I meant was that there won't be much of a chance to protest.
11:33am 25/11/10 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
5951 posts
i hang in a few predominantly american irc channels & the yanks are all up in arms against the tsa searches. there is all sorts of talk about civil suits & protests... of course i dunno if they'll match their talk with action.
urls like the one below are coming thick & fast though :p~

http://www.refinery29.com/stick-it-to-tsa-body-scans-with-these-shirts-containing-a-hidden-message.php
12:06pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32382 posts
Anyone that opts out of the scan is protesting though - it will take them heaps more time to process them manually, will annoy all their staff, runs at so many more risks of horrible PR (cue images of screaming children), etc.

Hopefully the lawsuit against the TSA about this restores some sanity into the process. Though the best solution seems to be to just bring in the Israelis and let them have at it!
12:06pm 25/11/10 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
11389 posts
So I saw maybe a total of about an hour's worth of TSA security screening, including a view of what I thought was the full body scanner (but not the scan itself). However in that time, I only saw a few people actually in the scan. So I would have thought that even if every person opts out of the scan, it's only going to be a few dozen people each day which won't be a big deal?
12:08pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Plasma
1206 posts
If you have 10 mins to spare; worth watching this video in German with a translator - you get the gist of it watching as its a demonstration of one of the (s*****?) scanner machines working, but... :)

Jump to 0:30 to get straight to it.

12:43pm 25/11/10 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
5952 posts
heh. i'd hate to be the sanner guy in that... he was copping it sweet. they make an awesome point though that the scanners would be ineffective against many items.

http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/tsa-checkpoint-oleg-volk-800x800.jpg

:P
01:09pm 25/11/10 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
2839 posts
I'm surprised more of you haven't been x-rayed just because you were worried about broken arms and s***.

But you'll kick up a stick about the one off to america? Okay. Be big men then and hold your penis behind your metal underwear. I'm sure this is the biggest infringement of rights you'll ever face.
01:17pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Taipan
Brisbane, Queensland
3252 posts
That's not a strip search Faceman, there's nothing sensitive about a males torso.

A strip search for a male is genitals, for women it includes tits too.


Chub a strip search is the stripping or removal of clothing it's got f*** all to do with what part of the body the clothing is coming off. As long as cloths are being removed it's a strip search. If that wasn't the case it'd be called something completely different.
01:29pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32383 posts
I'm surprised more of you haven't been x-rayed just because you were worried about broken arms and s***.

But you'll kick up a stick about the one off to america? Okay. Be big men then and hold your penis behind your metal underwear. I'm sure this is the biggest infringement of rights you'll ever face.
heh, people like you, are why people are correct when they say "the terrorists have already won"

It's not about radiation, but that is a factor. This is about bulls*** security theatre gradually stripping away your rights in the name of some bulls*** war on terror and pissing away your hard earned tax dollars in the process, all without actually offering any real improvements in security.

You know how many of the TSAs security practices implemented since Sep 11, 2001, have resulted in stopping a terrorist plot? Exactly zero. Not one, not two, not even 100,000.

Google tells me the FAA says there are 13m flights per year. Lets lowball that and call it 10m flights per year. 9 years since 9/11, so 90m flights over that period. If they'd stopped 100,000 terrorist attacks, that would be have been of 0.00111% of flights affected. But luckily the maths is even easier, because they've stopped zero attacks.

This means that every single security check that has been done - profiling a person with brown skin and a beard, Xraying someone's bag, taking nudie photos with magical machines, and feeling up 4 year old girls - has been a false positive.

So the US has spent untold billions of dollars on these mechanisms. They haven't stopped anyone taking a bomb on a plane, because obviously noone has tried in 9 years. Despite the fact that the evidence is overwhelming that the existing measures have been fine for stopping bomb attacks for years, they're INCREASING their spend, increasing the inconvenience of flying, increasing the pain for travelers, increasing the liklihood of all sorts of other social, legal, etc problems, for no real apparent benefit in security.

You'll note in a link I pasted above where the Israeli security expert dude said that despite all these measures, he would have no problems in getting bombs on board a plane, because he thinks they're utterly ineffective.

There's sooooo many things wrong with what they're doing that I can't possibly explain them all, but I would encourage you to read some of the links on the subject from

1) the security experts etc that are commenting on the complete ineffectiveness of these systems
2) the privacy experts that are pointing out the complete lack of respect with which people's privacy is being treated
3) the legal experts that are highlighting the possible violations of civil liberties that are taking place as a result of these new measures
4) the economists that are pointing out how much money is getting pissed away on these schemes - both by the government and in lost productivity of citizens caught up in the tangle - that could be spent on actual, real security measures like intelligence and proper airport security
5) the terrorism experts, who simply point out that any real terrorist will simply change tactics once these new security measures are enforced. There's a reason they don't bother trying to take bombs on planes any more, unless they're smuggled in a body cavity.
01:37pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Mordecai
Victoria
376 posts
Nice article by an ex Assistant Chief of the Montgomery County, Maryland, Department of Police on how bad some of the TSA are doing their job.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/11/why-tsa-practices-could-result-in-public-rebellion-or-terrorist-attack/

I had been told repeatedly I would be subjected to a “pat down”. I correctly suspected otherwise. During the course of my police career, I have conducted many pat-downs on the street. The Supreme Court has described pat downs as a cursory check of the outer clothing of a person by a police officer, upon articulable suspicion that the officer’s safety is at risk of being compromised. My department’s procedure indicated that this pat-down was to be conducted with an open hand, gently patting the outer clothing of an individual, for purposes of officer safety only, with the goal of detecting weapons. In other words, it is not a search.

What happened to me in Albany was not the promised “pat-down”. It was a full search conducted in full public view. It was also one of the most flawed searches I have ever witnessed.

From the outset, it was very clear that the screener would have preferred to be anywhere else. She acted as if she was afraid of me, though given that I had set myself apart as apparently crazy, perhaps I cannot blame her. With rubber-gloved hands she checked my head, my arms, my legs, my buttocks (and discovered a pen that had fallen into one of my pockets) and even the bottom of my feet. Perhaps in a nod to decorum, she did not check my crotch, my armpits or either breast area.

Here was a big problem: an effective search cannot nod to decorum.


Its an interesting read.
02:24pm 25/11/10 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
11391 posts
So the US has spent untold billions of dollars on these mechanisms. They haven't stopped anyone taking a bomb on a plane, because obviously noone has tried in 9 years.

I'm asking this because I think there's an answer: how do you know that the new security measures are the reason that no bombs have been taken on planes?
02:39pm 25/11/10 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
838 posts
I'm opting for the patdown....sensual!
03:23pm 25/11/10 Permalink
myWhiteWolf
Brisbane, Queensland
3012 posts
I'm asking this because I think there's an answer: how do you know that the new security measures are the reason that no bombs have been taken on planes?


the same could be said about the rock sitting on my desk keeping tigers away.

that's the problem though, you can't prove its not working as a deterrent.

although as there haven't been other attacks on buildings or public infrastructure or anything of the sorts since 9/11, i doubt the lack of attacks on planes is due to heightened security.

I'm opting for the patdown....sensual!
I'm planning on making it sexy sounding for everyone to hear. maybe invite the other security personal to come play too.

i've been patted down before by the police, and if grabbing at your pockets is good enough for the police to ensure there safety, it really should be enough for the TSA.

last edited by myWhiteWolf at 16:12:56 25/Nov/10
04:07pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
8261 posts
I'm asking this because I think there's an answer: how do you know that the new security measures are the reason that no bombs have been taken on planes?

We do know that there is now less activity in air terrorism, and no major event has occured in the West since increased screening and intelligence work began post-9/11. Woohoo, go team anti-terror!

So it follows that because what we've done so far has WORKED PERFECTLY, we now need to up the ante and scan everyone's junk ...
04:16pm 25/11/10 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
839 posts
I don't know why everyone is complaining about a patdown, try going to a greek doctor for a prostate examination....big hands you know.
04:38pm 25/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7239 posts
Can a gay person request a female patdown?
04:43pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Boxhead
Brisbane, Queensland
12160 posts
We do know that there is now less activity in air terrorism, and no major event has occured in the West since increased screening and intelligence work began post-9/11. Woohoo, go team anti-terror!

So it follows that because what we've done so far has WORKED PERFECTLY, we now need to up the ante and scan everyone's junk ...

The bit of sense that seems to come from this, if we're relying on a pat-down and scanner machine combo to detect terrorism attacks *AT THE AIRPORT* then it is kind of self defeating.. if a terrorist makes it to the airport with a bomb and about to get on a plane.. we're putting an awful lot of pressure on Mr John Middle-america TSA worker man to correctly detect, detain and contain such a situation from turning awfully bad... Now I full understand that the FBI and all the rest of the various american institutes are working protecting everyone from everything, but the point still kind of rings out. You can't market these security steps as necessary if you're not willing to accept that some other area of the security program is ineffective or the like
04:57pm 25/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7240 posts
I would rather get groped at the airport then be interfered with in regular life and will happily give up my rights at the airport to avoid getting raided for stupid anti-terrorism s*** in my own home.

Terrible idea.
05:00pm 25/11/10 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
4982 posts
So they have stringent security. If you don't want to fly, there are always trains and automobiles.

I'm ok with the security. Even if it isnt effective per se. it gives the appearance of effectiveness which calms the public and deters would-be troublemakers.
05:03pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32389 posts
I'm ok with the security. Even if it isnt effective per se. it gives the appearance of effectiveness which calms the public and deters would-be troublemakers.
I would prefer actual security over the appearance of security any day of the week.
05:16pm 25/11/10 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
4984 posts
And how would you achieve actual security?
05:39pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Charlie
Brisbane, Queensland
2187 posts
I noticed something odd, the TSA checks seem to be one thing both left and right wing yank media can agree on.
05:53pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Plasma
1208 posts
Probably by listening to a few recommendations by other countries; like more intelligence gathering.

I don't see a real terrorist ("troublemakers") being deterred by the presence of the TSA, or other checkin security.

Of course security at the airport is important; but when you have a false sense of it like using those x-ray machines that don't identify everything (and thus lull the TSA officer into thinking they are good to clear); or even just using social engineering tactics to avoid searches (a few blogs report just complaining in the line and a whole row of people just get to skip the 'enhanced' searches) etc.
05:56pm 25/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7241 posts
What I want to know is... why not just detonate the bomb the moment they're onto you?

You know you're going to get homeland security rape then multiple life sentences in a supermax till you rot to death.

What exactly do you have to lose?
05:59pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32390 posts
And how would you achieve actual security?
I would do what Schneier tells me to do! :)

The article above about how the Israelis do it I think would be an excellent starting point. It focuses on the stuff that works really well - clever profiling and careful analysis and intelligence, proper questioning, etc. If you watch BORDER SECURITY (aka the greatest show on Australian TV) you can see this working in action all the time; its one of the reasons I watch the show.

Some of the other physical security stuff I thought was really interesting too, like segregating passengers and luggage in separate bomb-proof areas when screening.

The other thing Schneier always talks about it is proper intelligence and recon stuff - ie, proper police work. That would stop a plot but not your lone nutbag theory so I don't know how effective it'd be.

I'll admit it is much easier to criticise the current situation than come up with solutions... Once you start getting the security theatre aspect of it pointed out to you though its all you can see - I go to the airport quite a bit and figured out how to avoid the random check with almost 100% success rate each time I've gone through. The odds of getting picked up for a random search even when NOT doing this are like 1 in 5 or 10, depending on how busy the airport is.
06:12pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32391 posts
What I want to know is... why not just detonate the bomb the moment they're onto you?

You know you're going to get homeland security rape then multiple life sentences in a supermax till you rot to death.

What exactly do you have to lose?
that is dealt with in the israeli model (link again is http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother ), because they realise a bomb going off in the airport on the ground is pretty much almost as bad as one going off on a plane in the air. Arguably it could be worse in terms of overall effect - imagine the slaw that would result if a major airport was shut down for a couple days as a result of a bomb blast, whereas a single plane would presumably not stop most other flights from running
06:13pm 25/11/10 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
18712 posts
I reckon if a bomb blew up a plane over US soil there would be a very high likelihood of all air traffic being grounded.
06:21pm 25/11/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7243 posts
I would get ass-f***ed by that security trog :( not a nice article to read.

I've only been out of Australia 3 times in my lifetime, out of the 6 flights I've been selected 5 times for "extra screening" or whatever the f*** they call it, 1 time I've been taken to a back room for a thorough pat down (not strip).

I don't handle airports well, I'm young, I look like a total grub and I do everything wrong.

It's the same reason I get a vehicle search during traffic stops, I shake like f*** when I give a cop my license for an RBT :(

"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.

Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.
I would shake/look away and display every single sign applicable.

You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?
I would choke heavily in this situation.

last edited by CHUB at 19:01:08 25/Nov/10
06:51pm 25/11/10 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
4988 posts
Good.answer. I hadn't read that article until now.

I'm happy to concede the point but i think overt security has ots place as well.
07:18pm 25/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32392 posts
I reckon if a bomb blew up a plane over US soil there would be a very high likelihood of all air traffic being grounded.
yeh definitely in the US... not sure about other countries but I spose on reflection it does seem more likely
07:38pm 25/11/10 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
17471 posts
I'm surprised more of you haven't been x-rayed just because you were worried about broken arms and s***.

I had the entire top half of my body exposed to x-rays a while ago to make sure I didn't have lung cancer or whatever, did I care? Not one damn bit. The more x-rays the better imho, what doesn't kill me can only turn me into a mutant super hero & give me the ability to see in the dark (because I'm f*****g glowing.)
07:43pm 25/11/10 Permalink
myWhiteWolf
Brisbane, Queensland
3013 posts
and no major event has occurred in the West since increased screening and intelligence work began post-9/11


before 9/11 the only American terrorist threat i could find was the 1988 pan am flight 103 bombing? so until there is no event until 2013 you can't even say there has even been a reduction in aviation terrorism against America.

Unless i've missed something?
08:44am 26/11/10 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
11601 posts
give me the ability to see in the dark (because I'm f*****g glowing.)


worst power ever.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/598/192280-comic_book_guy_13018_large.jpg
09:52am 26/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32393 posts
The EFF have just posted their take on the body scanners - pretty much what you'd expect:

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/11/common-sense-and-security-body-scanners
10:13am 26/11/10 Permalink
BassMan
Brisbane, Queensland
1435 posts
There's a big thread on this topic in SA's 'Debate & Discussion' forum:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3366208

...what I found funny was anyone with a pulse & no criminal history can become a TSA "officer" (they ran ads on the back of pizza boxes). They earn US $10 something an hour.

The cost to implement Israeli methods would probably mean firing 5 TSA officers for every one Israeli equivalent.
10:22am 26/11/10 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
5084 posts
Is trogs link working for anyone?
10:26am 26/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32394 posts
try now
10:35am 26/11/10 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
5085 posts
cheers
10:36am 26/11/10 Permalink
iTOM
Brisbane, Queensland
755 posts
10:38am 26/11/10 Permalink
Creepy
USA
1676 posts
Travelled from San Jose to Seattle today on Thanksgiving, arguably one of the busier days for air travel. All back scatter machines were offline, and there were no pat downs.

Interesting.
11:20am 26/11/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
32396 posts
Travelled from San Jose to Seattle today on Thanksgiving, arguably one of the busier days for air travel. All back scatter machines were offline, and there were no pat downs.

Interesting.
JESUS CHRIST Why did you get on the plane if you were that unsafe?!?!?!?@#!@$!%
11:22am 26/11/10 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
844 posts
This is what I'm going to do
solution
09:12pm 26/11/10 Permalink
Mordecai
Victoria
378 posts
Tell us when you are travelling them Wiggle so we can make sure we don't have to fly at the same and see you in your bikini
10:06pm 26/11/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4706 posts
11:16pm 26/11/10 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
30711 posts
lady libery is hawt as
06:53am 27/11/10 Permalink
Chakas
USA
3202 posts
Caught 6 flights in the last 3 weeks and went through 0 x-ray machines and had 0 pat downs. Went through standard metal detectors at every screening point though the x-ray scanners were in use, I guess I looked non-threatening enough (despite a darker than average complexion and very foreign sounding last name) to be taken through the metal detectors.

Also was at LAX on National Opt Out Day, but missed the bikini girl in wiggleplix's post above.
07:48am 27/11/10 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
846 posts
Tell us when you are travelling them Wiggle so we can make sure we don't have to fly at the same and see you in your bikini

Here's a sneak preview of me relaxing
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2499/fatmaninabiki9ni.jpg
11:41am 27/11/10 Permalink
Plasma
1216 posts
New video:

New Mother Harassed and Threatened by TSA because she requests alternate screening for her breast milk. As a repeat traveler, the TSA singled her out to make an example out of her. She spends over an hour in the "Special Inspection" area and is forced to miss her flight.




If what is captioned in the video is true; they really do seem stupid and useless.
05:02pm 07/12/10 Permalink
gamer
1523 posts
Christ i would have been swinging punches before then.. that women has some serious patience... i would be ripping strips through those f*****g retards. Especially the 'cop'
06:46pm 07/12/10 Permalink
BillyHardball
Brisbane, Queensland
11424 posts
S*** that's a pretty distressing vid. Just to be sure though, has anyone actually verified that the TSA policy is as it states in the vid, and that this chick isn't a dodgy person or something?
10:10pm 07/12/10 Permalink
Boxhead
Brisbane, Queensland
12162 posts
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/formula.shtm
They're modifying the rules at the moment the site says...

they do make mention that breast milk is subject to the same scrutiny as medications which is listed below... Seems she ticked all these boxes
* You must request a visual inspection before the screening process begins; otherwise your medications and supplies will undergo X-ray inspection.
* If you would like to take advantage of this option, please have your medication and associated supplies separated from your other property in a separate pouch/bag when you approach the Security Officer at the walk-through metal detector.
* Request the visual inspection and hand your medication pouch/bag to the Security Officer.
* In order to prevent contamination or damage to medication and associated supplies and/or fragile medical materials, you will be asked at the security checkpoint to display, handle, and repack your own medication and associated supplies during the visual inspection process.
* Any medication and/or associated supplies that cannot be cleared visually must be submitted for X-ray screening. If you refuse, you will not be permitted to carry your medications and related supplies into the sterile area.
10:24pm 07/12/10 Permalink
Slayer
Queensland
37 posts

09:33pm 08/12/10 Permalink
Plasma
1217 posts
I didn't mention it before, but RE: My video posted above; the lack of TSA agents actually helping the traveler out with her concerns and showing a "I don't want to get involved" sort of attitude (like the agent standing at the front of the door for the entire time) I reckon shows a character trait that they were either too embarrassed or didn't like the confrontation to address her concerns properly or try and address the situation better - not something you'd expect from someone in that position.
09:49pm 08/12/10 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
33120 posts
So I am currently sitting in a lounge at LAX on the way back from GDC in SF.

When in SF I was in the line waiting to go through TSA security. I had stacks of time before my flight and there weren't many people in the line. I could see the TSA magical mwave scanners and all the people dutifully lining up and going through them and getting zapped.

It was amazing, once I was in the line, how fast I had simply acquiesced to the fate that awaited me - that of being scanned, considering that after reading this thread and all the other posts on the Internet had made me certain that, when presented with the opportunity, I would tell the TSA to go f*** themselves and have them scan me. But once you're in The Line, and trudging slowly along with everyone else, you simply absorb their sheep mentality and just keep putting one foot in front of the other with a view of getting through this process as quickly as painlessly as possible.

Which is, of course, what they're counting on - your obedience and willingness to submit yourself to this invasive level of security, because the alternative is an even more invasive one that will take longer and probably be a pain in the ass.

Once I realised my transition to sheeple had almost completed, I snapped myself out of it and mentally swore that I would opt out of the scanning and ask for the patdown.

i got to the front of the line, had my stuff going through the x-ray, and told the guy I would like to opt out, adding casually that "I hope this isn't a pain in the ass" (knowing of course that it definitely was). Looking around though, I could see one TSA guy to my left watching the line and another two guys at the back just talking to each other, so I didn't think this was a particularly onerous request - the line wasn't that long and they clearly weren't very busy as the herd was so docile. The guy responded, with the tinnnnnnnniest air of frustration, that "it takes longer", to which I just shrugged.

So I was taken aside by the spare guy to my left. I assumed that, given he was standing there doing nothing, he would search me, but he simply herded me into a little fenced off area right next to the scanner and called for a male agent to come over.

I had to wait about 3 or 4 minutes before some guy came over. At no time did they express any interest into why I opted out; the dude just wandered over and walked me through the process very clearly, politely and succinctly, explaining exactly what he was going to be doing ("I'll be running my hands up and down blah blah blah").

He offered me a private room, but I declined, deciding that if I was going to get The Patdown, I would prefer to do it in front of everyone, both to remind them of the option, and also because I hoped (no doubt vainly) that it would perhaps encourage others not to so meekly submit to the whims of the TSA.

The search took probably no more than about another 3-4 minutes. At the end of it I decided that at no point did I ever feel like the guy was grasping any part of my genitals or trying to incite a tickle-frenzy; it was like a very polite masseur simply running his hands over most of my body.

The best part was at the end - he invited me to sit down, then ran his hands over the tops of my (shoe-less) feet. While he swabbed his gloves and ran the results through a scanner (presumably checking for explosives, drugs, or other things Americans don't like much, like liberty, freedom, medical care for citizens, etc), I asked him if he was going to check the soles of my feet. He said no, to which I just shrugged acceptance, and then another TSA dude who had been watching the tail end of the proceedings said "no, we don't do that any more because the TSA decided feet are dirty".

I laughed dutifully thinking this was a hilarious joke made by the TSA at their own expense. Neither of the two guys laughed; the other just nodded and said "yeh, that's right", to which I choked down my laughter and just started staring depressed at the floor at the obvious security theatre that was going on around me - regardless of the truth of that statement.

I certainly feel like applying this level of security to every individual is an utter waste of time. While I was waiting in my little fenced off possible-terrorist-suspect area, I witnessed a dude breeze straight through the security check - a fellow passenger who wasn't subject to the screenings or the pat-down, presumably some sort of frequent flier who had a first-class pass that entitled him to only cursory inspection walking through a metal detector. So presumably, if you were a real criminal or terrorist, you would just find out what mechanic they use (Google informs me that it's probably CLEAR) and employ that to skip the onerous security checks.

Of course, that attack vector has long considered as boring and pointless by some security experts, who think that the two biggest improvements to flyer security since 9/11 have been the reinforced c***pit doors and the new passenger knowledge that if they need to act to subdue miscreants or else their lives are almost certainly lost.

So I certainly felt irritated by the process. All the agents that I dealt with were utterly, implacably polite and professional. Again, they were not very busy; there were not hordes of conscientious objectors like me f*****g up their day, so they could take the time to have a relaxed approach - or maybe they're just always like that at SFO because they hire a better class of citizen to help protect their airways, or something.

Anyway, that's my story. I am not sure if I would do it again - it was almost creepy how strong the urge to "just do what everyone else is doing" was. But I think it's important that people take a stand on security like this so that the focus can be shifted to mechanisms that really work and actually contribute to the security of all, instead of merely providing an appearance of security.
04:23pm 06/03/11 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
3652 posts

While I was waiting in my little fenced off possible-terrorist-suspect area, I witnessed a dude breeze straight through the security check - a fellow passenger who wasn't subject to the screenings or the pat-down, presumably some sort of frequent flier who had a first-class pass that entitled him to only cursory inspection walking through a metal detector.


and thats the problem with all the security isnt it, it is randomly dished out to different people, and others just cruise through

So presumably, if you were a real criminal or terrorist, you would just find out what mechanic they use (Google informs me that it's probably CLEAR) and employ that to skip the onerous security checks.


Whats the deal with clear? you pay to bypass the security checks, surely thats not right, that just seems too easy?
04:36pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
2937 posts
Whats the deal with clear? you pay to bypass the security checks, surely thats not right, that just seems too easy?


Of course. You didn't think they'd forget to include a quick way for the patricians to bypass the plebeian queue did you?
God bless America!
06:23pm 06/03/11 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
5354 posts
But once you're in The Line, and trudging slowly along with everyone else, you simply absorb their sheep mentality and just keep putting one foot in front of the other with a view of getting through this process as quickly as painlessly as possible.



good on you for refusing the screening.

Did you think about me ?
this ones for FaceMan ?
06:46pm 06/03/11 Permalink
wiggleplix
Melbourne, Victoria
1035 posts
I just went through like a good sheep, I don't need the hassle, I already look dodgy
07:38pm 06/03/11 Permalink
kr0wb4r
Brisbane, Queensland
803 posts
Meh, flying out of Morocco (marrakech) it was mandatory grope search for EVERYONE plus the metal detector.

I didn't even know what was going on before it was over and done with, people who fuss and complain are pretty stoooopid.
08:11pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
6712 posts
haha airport security in some sth american places i went was a joke,

a guy would be there picking out a person every 10 passengers, put them through a metal detector and bags through a scanner and that was it. Everyone else just walked straight off the plane grabbed their s*** and left, no security checks, pat downs or anytihng.

Was amazing =)

Very over gettin 'randomly' pulled aside for explosive swabs etc. waste of f***** time and i cant stand the airport security and their power trips.

Got pulled up last yr comin back from sth america, guy was takin ages, looked through every single thing we had in out bags. I was laughing with my misses saying how stupid this is etc, the guy looked up with this rambo look on his face "mate this is no laughing matter, this is serious! u better check ur attitude before we have to go into a private room"

f***** twat telling me what frame of mind i should b in. After a 16hr flight, gettin harrassed for 1hr and all my s*** being looked through i think that me laughing was a much better reaction than showing how i really felt towards him and the situation.

10:03pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
6713 posts
that video of the guy trying to leave the airport and gettin slammed with "cooperate or this will look bad in the case we are goin to bring against you"

wow..... this is straight up power trip to the max. What is airport security classified under? are they just usual security guards that cant touch you without your permission etc or do they have there own set of rules?
10:11pm 06/03/11 Permalink
sparrow
Brisbane, Queensland
1420 posts
So apparently we can take liquids on domestic flights now? Is this a recent change, or has this never been policy for domestic, only international? I just came back from Cairns and took a water bottle, ice pack, and other liquids in my carry on. And yet I had to take my umbrella out and put it in a separate tray?
10:29pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
18019 posts


Seriously stop being f*****s and just let them cop a feel of your nads and move on.

Isn't it more gay to have another man feeling around your nads?
10:29pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
6714 posts
i think it is when you just "let" it happen and accept it in ur head, normal males should b kickboxing the guy in their imagination
10:36pm 06/03/11 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
9134 posts
Did you think about me ?
this ones for FaceMan ?

Hahaha, I certainly would!

Interesting experience, trog. I'd personally go through the scanner, I don't really see the big deal. I'm generally a more conservative guy too - as in I don't get naked in change rooms at football and walk around like some guys do. I just get changed quickly and discreetly, etc.

I think liquids on domestic has depended on the carrier in recent times, but is nearly always allowed.

Funnily enough I had a swiss army card in my wallet that I forgot about. I was able to fly between Melbourne and Launceston multiple times with it until one time in Lonnie they picked it up on X-ray and I had to go and post it back to myself (it was a present, wanted to keep it!)

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5417/swissarmycard.jpg
11:26pm 06/03/11 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
5358 posts
oh look a PrisonPlanet own story.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/states-rebeling-against-tsa-texas-the-latest-to-legislate-for-banning-grope-downs-naked-scanners.html


Legislation has been introduced into the Texas House of Representatives that directly challenges the authority of the TSA in airports within the state, specifically aimed at criminalizing the use of naked body scanners and enhanced pat-downs.

Rep. David Simpson (R-Longview) introduced a set of bills earlier this week that would empower the Texas Attorney General to bring suit in court against any airport operator who installs or uses the full body imaging equipment or any operator who touches a person without consent and searches them without probable cause.

The bills, HB 1938 and HB 1937 would see criminal and civil penalties handed out to any TSA worker who was found to have contravened the laws.



This why you resist.
If enough people do it you can effect change.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2011/050111TSA.jpg


11:30pm 06/03/11 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
12220 posts
pinky, you should get on a plane with this next time



last edited by ravn0s at 23:33:47 06/Mar/11
11:32pm 06/03/11 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1101 posts
So apparently we can take liquids on domestic flights now? Is this a recent change, or has this never been policy for domestic, only international? I just came back from Cairns and took a water bottle, ice pack, and other liquids in my carry on. And yet I had to take my umbrella out and put it in a separate tray?


Domestic is fine, its only International.
06:47am 07/03/11 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
5096 posts
Funnily enough I had a swiss army card in my wallet that I forgot about. I was able to fly between Melbourne and Launceston multiple times with it until one time in Lonnie they picked it up on X-ray and I had to go and post it back to myself (it was a present, wanted to keep it!)


Because when I fly it's usually for some kind of race, I usually have packed all kinds of tools to disassemble/reassemble the bike. I also have a pretty short memory, with me it's very much a case of out of sight, out of mind. So the number of occasions where I've put something like a multitool in my bag and I've got there and it's not been picked up has been pretty amusing.
One time, though, I had put my pedals in my carry-on, as I was that close on weight limits. They stopped me at security all "what are these? no, you can't take them on [beacuse we're scared by things we don't understand]. There's not a sharp bit on them, yet they wanted to refuse to let me take them - fortunately I talked some sense in to them, because having to mail them back to myself as my bags were already checked, well, a bike with no pedals wouldn't be going very far.
07:55am 07/03/11 Permalink
gamer
1707 posts
08:45am 07/03/11 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
8943 posts
The creditor has a titanium blade so xrays will see it.
01:47pm 07/03/11 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
2930 posts
presumably checking for explosives, drugs, or other things Americans don't like much, like liberty, freedom, medical care for citizens, etc

I lol'd
02:14pm 07/03/11 Permalink
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