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Cheating in computer games?
Tanaka Khan
Brisbane, Queensland
4848 posts
http://www.news.com.au/technology/should-you-be-allowed-to-cheat-in-video-games/story-e6frfro0-1225938023596


Blizzard said it was penalising single-player cheats because they were unfairly inflating their achievements — which might be displayed to other gamers online.

"While single-player games only appear to be you and a computer at first, your achievements and gamer score also carries weight," the game maker said.


I personally don't see a problem in cheating in your own solo games. I don't hold alot of stock to the whole "Achievement" thing anyway. I play for my own enjoyment.
01:01pm 13/10/10 Permalink
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01:01pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5414 posts
haha wow blizzard are total f***wits.

i love using cheats on the 2nd play through or jsut to get a weapon i havnt found yet and a blast with it.

01:02pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5415 posts
how un-fun and un-usable are they trying to make all there products.

01:04pm 13/10/10 Permalink
tspec
Melbourne, Victoria
2908 posts
If it's that bigger deal, why don't they just automatically disable achievements when cheats are enabled.
01:09pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Taipan
Brisbane, Queensland
3207 posts
I am fine with ppl cheating their way through single player games. That is of course if by doing so it has absolutely no affect on anything to do with online play with or against other people.

01:11pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5418 posts
i thought thats what happened tspec, heaps of games ive played the achievments just get disabled
01:13pm 13/10/10 Permalink
casa
Brisbane, Queensland
4064 posts

that's be like id software banding you from the revolutionary quake games for iddqd'ing
01:13pm 13/10/10 Permalink
ctd
Brisbane, Queensland
9158 posts
Blizzard piss me off so much. Valve deal with s*** so much better. Remember when people first started achievement farming in TF2? Response was hilarious.

I read people are getting banned for using macro keyboard enhancements (which I am fine with) but they don't warn you at all and you have to buy the game again. Additionally the official SC2 keyboard from razer supports macro keys.

They removed this custom map (Nexus Word Wars) from the server because it used a dictionary database which contained 'offensive' words. I think the word blizz singled out was 'dyke'.

Maybe they should have an option to disable achievements if you want to use cheats in SP? Who f***en cares about that s*** anyway. I played the SP campaign for about 27.4 seconds before I realised how s*** it was.

tldr Blizz are f*****s and valve rulz.
01:15pm 13/10/10 Permalink
darkjedi
Hobart, Tasmania
2844 posts
The thing is that StarCraft 2 has built-in cheats that do all of those things and disable achievements when used. Why they have to use a 3rd party trainer to do the same thing is beyond me, other than cheating to get the harder achievements. Given SC2's DRM is the requirement to log into B.NET, there's no way for them to tell if a trainer is being used for Single Player or Multi-player - If Warden picks it up, then you're screwed.

There's no sympathy from me here. None at all.
01:20pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Python
Sydney, New South Wales
749 posts
you don't own the game, you're renting it!
THE FUTURE IS NOW!

01:21pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Vorador
Brisbane, Queensland
1425 posts
Loving the pants-on-head retarded responses thinking they'd ban people for using the cheats that are already built in to the game.

01:30pm 13/10/10 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
7031 posts
My problem is this retarded ladder system that is represented by leagues, divisions, rank/points (+bonus pool)... all of which have NO affect on the game at all and offer no accurate representation of skill.

The only thing that matters is a hidden MMR value, which is an accurate representation of skill.

So why all the stupid fluff? It allows players to progress despite... not progressing :S The system is setup to reward players greatly when they win, to baby them when they lose and overall give an inflated sense of ability.

F*****g retarded, you move up the ladder while not improving, I can't be the only one that thinks this is fundamentally wrong :S
01:31pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Vash
2098 posts
cheating is stupid. Play the game and if you're not good enough, reduce the difficulty or buy an easier game.
01:34pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5426 posts
why is it stupid?

makes replayablity so much more fun. get all the guns early on, special abilities etc.
not everyone just uses the infinite hp cheat
01:35pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
10742 posts
I had plenty of fun using iddqd and other things when replaying doom for the millionth time.
01:50pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
7981 posts
Loving the pants-on-head retarded responses thinking they'd ban people for using the cheats that are already built in to the game.

Onya vora!
02:01pm 13/10/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4473 posts
Ok thats it.
Im boycotting StarCraft 2 again.

You know, this whole Starcraft 2/Bnet-2/Blizzard crap reminds me of Metallica when they carried on about Napster losing them money.
When i think of StarCraft now I think of how pathetic Blizzard have acted and it turns me off playing the game. I dont even play the original anymore.

Maybe things will change but as long as people keep bending over and spreading their wallets things will prolly keep getting worse for Gamers.
02:48pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5453 posts
haha that was one of the best lines out of get him to the greek

from aldis snow to the drummer of mettallica

"why dont u go and sue napster again u twat"
02:50pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
2334 posts
What happened to you Blizzard!? You used to be cool. :(
02:50pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Bertis
Perth, Western Australia
16 posts
I'm totally in support of Blizzard on this. 3rd party cheats should be banned no matter what.
03:51pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
7998 posts
What happened to you Blizzard!? You used to be cool. :(

So you think you should be able to use 3rd party, unauthorised hacks on BNet in single-player mode?
03:52pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
10743 posts
What can the 3rd party cheats in single player that the inbuilt ones cannot?
04:09pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5460 posts
unauthorised... who the f*** are they to authorise what we do with OUR GAME WE PAID FOR.

multiplayer i completely understand, but single player where noone is affected but urself. Next they will be telling us what nicknames we use in game and what resoultion we have to play it at.
04:12pm 13/10/10 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
11302 posts
omg strawman scoobs
04:15pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
7999 posts
unauthorised... who the f*** are they to authorise what we do with OUR GAME WE PAID FOR.

multiplayer i completely understand, but single player where noone is affected but urself. Next they will be telling us what nicknames we use in game and what resoultion we have to play it at.

But you play single player StarCraft on Battle.Net, so its not that simple. Every time you play the game you are logging into their service.
What can the 3rd party cheats in single player that the inbuilt ones cannot?

No idea!
04:25pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Tim Tibbetts
Brisbane, Queensland
2439 posts
If allowing single player hacks/mods in any way compromised Blizzards ability to detect hacks/mods used for multiplayer then yes, I totally agree with banning everyone who uses them.

If it doesn't, then I don't agree with banning people for hacking up the single player game.

That being said, there are built in cheats, so I don't know why you would want to hack it all up. I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't let you hack up their games, or OS with the 360, is this different just because it's easier to do so on a PC?
04:29pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
5462 posts
Haha so you log onto battlenet for single player, which u have obviously agreed to do what they say before joining.

f*** they are c****
04:33pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Esotericthief
Newcastle, New South Wales
12 posts
unauthorised... who the f*** are they to authorise what we do with OUR GAME WE PAID FOR.

When you buy a game your actually leasing the right to use the game. So technically we don't own the game, we own the right to use it. Blizzard, Bungie etc don't care about the case or the disc you get when you buy their games, they care about what's on the disc. I tried to view usage rights of some games to quote something here but adobe keep crashing so I couldn't.

Terms of usage is just a way for them to hold control over what they've created. I think they need to make this info a little more clear when people buy games.
05:10pm 13/10/10 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
4816 posts
meh; i'm ok with them all cheats from their games.

although i remember some gnarly lan counterstrike games where everyone had wallhack. Aimbot/no-flash was for queers, though
05:20pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
7447 posts
Is it just me or does their statement imply they know a lot about cheating and cheaters -enough to disable features in their game based on cheating but not enough to stop it!?
05:32pm 13/10/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4476 posts
If they want to stop cheating online great.
They have no right to come in to FaceMans bunker and tell him not to cheat.
This is my bunker, nobody tells me what to do in here.

What next ?
Cheat at Monopoly and Hasbro comes around to your home and destroys your game ?
What if you dont have countless hours of free time but want to play different parts of the game ?
Its retarded.

Whats hilarious is that you could dl and play the cracked version and cheat all you like in single player. So Blizzard is telling people if you only want to play single player you are better off getting a pirated version of our game.
05:57pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Phar4oh
Perth, Western Australia
46 posts
so Blizzard should analyse 3rd party hacks and try to detect whether they are only ruining the game for them self or others? That's pretty steep if you ask me. If you only did single player custom games, then there wouldn't be a problem, but if you were cheating multiplayer games against AI because you're whoring achievements/portraits or something then you're still a cheater (although I don't personally care about this practice...but tough luck if you get banned because Blizzard can't be arsed checking whether your game has any humans in it).

I for one have no sympathy for the cheaters. Blizzard banning hackers is nothing new. I would be seriously surprised if someone installed a hack on their computer only to be banned later and thought "Geez, I didn't see this coming. Blizzard are banning cheaters now??".

c'mon. Multiplayer cheating is a well known Blizzard crime. They'll just turn a blind eye for single player whores (just like real cops do for real whores)
06:08pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Tim Tibbetts
Brisbane, Queensland
2441 posts
Just to reiterate. There are cheats in the game already, this is about hacking or modifying the game in other ways to cheat or do whatever.

Personally, I think the number of people doing this for single player games only would be so minor. People are just getting up in arms because it's some kind of civil rights bulls***.
06:15pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Phar4oh
Perth, Western Australia
47 posts
Is it just me or does their statement imply they know a lot about cheating and cheaters -enough to disable features in their game based on cheating but not enough to stop it!?


Of course they can stop it. But the threat of banning players is the deterrent that prevents cheating in future.

If all Blizzard did was patch the game every time a hack was made, then a new hack would be made and the cycle never ends.

Instead,
1. Blizzard warns people to not use hacks or get banned.
2. Someone reports a hack and Blizzard create a method to detect people using it.
3. They use this time to continue logging cheaters and develop the patch for the security hole.
4. In one foul swoop, Blizzard bans the lot of them and patches the vulnerability.
5. Blizzard reiterates their no nonsense cheater policy to restart the cycle.

Next time a cheat is available, do you use it?
->No. Why? because you don't know at what point the hack will be detected by Blizzard and start recording your username.
->Yes. Why? Who cares, Blizzard just made an extra $80 out of you...

Cheats/Hacks = Cheater bait = Banned
06:21pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Tepid
620 posts
...and here are new-wave gamers for you.

don't do exactly what the company wants you to? then its YOUR fault!!!!

i remember playing through red alert with all custom unit specs, it was a lot of fun. an attack dog that does V2 rocket damage, just as an example.

gaming is alive and well. but its broken into two groups now. willing chumps, and selective pirates.

when i was young i remember wanting to break the rules and question what I was told.
todays new-wave gamer: "yes sir ... no sir... thankyou sir" while being kicked in the balls.

do i believe games are any better today than 10 years ago? only technically. its not worth all the other bulls*** that comes along with it.

PC gaming started to slide when blizzard got too powerful. f*** WoW. everyone stopped buying real games when that came out.
07:26pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Phar4oh
Perth, Western Australia
48 posts
don't do exactly what the company wants you to? then its YOUR fault!!!!


As far as I'm aware, they want to stop you from ruining the game experience for other people. This is because most people don't want their gaming experience ruined. This is called "appealing to the masses". This is obviously going to chide people that get off on pissing other people off.

do i believe games are any better today than 10 years ago?


Of course you do. Are you comparing a single developer's 3 month effort to a company filled with passionate gamers that dedicate their lives to the art with millions of dollars backing them? No comparison. If you honestly still think so, then you are in heaven my friend. With all the emulators and roms available, free flash online conversions of old classics, you'll never have to tolerate "added bulls***" ever again!

PC gaming started to slide when blizzard got too powerful. f*** WoW. everyone stopped buying real games when that came out.

I don't play wow, but Blizzard must be doing something right if people are willing to pay a subscription fee to play a game (apparently to pay for the cost of further developments but then charge you again anyway when the expansion comes out). I'm so glad they didn't do that with Starcraft 2... as long as you bought the "unlimited license".
09:48pm 13/10/10 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
4477 posts
We need a Gamers Bill of Rights.
That should be part of the Internet Constitution Bill.
11:09pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Vorador
Brisbane, Queensland
1426 posts
Time to quote myself
Loving the pants-on-head retarded responses (STILL) thinking they'd ban people for using the cheats that are already built in to the game.

------
i remember playing through red alert with all custom unit specs, it was a lot of fun. an attack dog that does V2 rocket damage, just as an example.


Nice rant. Just gonna go open up StarEdit and create a zergling with attack properties of a battlecruiser for use on a custom map (Holy s***, my amazing creation won't get uploaded for use in multiplayer or in the SP campaign, Oh no.)

Let me take this similar discussion back to a somewhat old-school game

Diablo 2 - or the original for that matter.

I'm sure we all know someone who insisted on using a trainer - no big deal right? Harmless fun and it is amusing as hell to watch a necromancer punch diablo and baal to death once.

Scenario: Couple of people have a LAN (Yes, I'm going that oldschool, back to when LANs actually existed) to play diablo, they all use their SP chars from home - Mr "I use a trainer" is amongst the group.
This results in a new game being played pretty quickly as 7 people stand around as 1 punches diablo to death, alternatively it leads to further lans with no invite to Mr "I use a trainer".

Sure 3rd party hacks can make a game a laugh, but f*** me even the potential for someone to be able to use one in a multiplayer format can be annoying as all s***.

StarEdit is damn powerful and there are a bunch of in-built cheat commands - what are these 3rd party hacks achieving for a single player user that they couldn't otherwise get?

11:11pm 13/10/10 Permalink
Phar4oh
Perth, Western Australia
49 posts
Time to quote myself


Nice rant. Just gonna go open up StarEdit and create a zergling with attack properties of a battlecruiser for use on a custom map (Holy s***, my amazing creation won't get uploaded for use in multiplayer or in the SP campaign, Oh no.)

Let me take this similar discussion back to a somewhat old-school game

Diablo 2 - or the original for that matter.

I'm sure we all know someone who insisted on using a trainer - no big deal right? Harmless fun and it is amusing as hell to watch a necromancer punch diablo and baal to death once.

Scenario: Couple of people have a LAN (Yes, I'm going that oldschool, back to when LANs actually existed) to play diablo, they all use their SP chars from home - Mr "I use a trainer" is amongst the group.
This results in a new game being played pretty quickly as 7 people stand around as 1 punches diablo to death, alternatively it leads to further lans with no invite to Mr "I use a trainer".

Sure 3rd party hacks can make a game a laugh, but f*** me even the potential for someone to be able to use one in a multiplayer format can be annoying as all s***.

StarEdit is damn powerful and there are a bunch of in-built cheat commands - what are these 3rd party hacks achieving for a single player user that they couldn't otherwise get?


+1
11:53pm 13/10/10 Permalink
kos
UK
1533 posts
The amount of people going on retarded raging rants about this when they obviously don't even understand what is happening is hilarious, everyone needs to read and understand Vorador's post.

THEY ARE NOT BANNING PEOPLE FOR USING THE CHEAT COMMANDS THAT ARE BUILT INTO THE GAME

and

THEY ARE NOT BANNING PEOPLE FOR CHANGING THE PROPERTIES OF UNITS WITH THE BUILT-IN MAP EDITOR TO CREATE CUSTOM MAPS

While I think using trainers and 3rd party cheats to get achievements in SP is a s***** act, I do believe banning these people from Battle.net completely is a bit harsh, they should be able to detect whether these people are playing the SP Campaign or MP easily enough and just disable gaining achievements if they are only playing SP (or even go so far as to permanently disable achievements on that account altogether, that would show them :D).

That said, not being someone who has any desire to use trainers or cheats, banning people who even use them in SP does make me feel somewhat safer and more protected from people considering cheating in MP.
12:10am 14/10/10 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
4818 posts

We need a Gamers Bill of Rights.


Slightly more pressing items on the political agenda.
09:20am 14/10/10 Permalink
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