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Sony may "monitor and record" all PSN activity on PlayStat...
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
484 posts
Updated Software Usage Terms say PlayStation maker can collect voice and text data to enforce Terms and to comply with law.

So lots of excitement about folks getting "an all in one" media center thing in their main room. That you can give voice commands to and will do everything to media, games, browsing and communications with email and such. But what about this:

"We reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record any or all of your PSN activity and to remove any of your UGM [user-generated media] at our sole discretion, without further notice to you."

So they dont like your game demo they come in and just delete it. Seems a bit too much big brother to me. The new terms go on to say:

"Any information collected in this way, for example, your UGM, the content of your voice and text communications, video of your gameplay, the time and location of your activities, and your name, your PSN Online ID, and IP address, may be used by us or our affiliated companies to enforce these Terms and the SEN Terms of Service, to comply with the law, to protect our rights and those of our licensors and users, and to protect the personal safety of our employees and users,"

It makes it sound like its all for security but is just making "you and other users" safe their end game? What else might be covered under "affiliated companies"? Advertising maybe?

So basically this console is like having a corporate controlled mic and webcam and tracker sitting live in your living room watching you. Always on. Always connected.

Im thinking we should have just kept consoles as things that play games for fun. But maybe other AG folks see it otherwise? Worried? Not bothered or outright dont care?

*source of quotes was the updated terms and conditions of the PS4 which were sourced from gamespot
01:21pm 12/11/13 Permalink
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01:21pm 12/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
485 posts
EDIT: What do you think that is:

*source of quotes was the updated terms and conditions of the PS4 which were sourced from gamespot


that is a quote of where i got the quotes from ie. gamespot. Does it have to be an actual link or is just "where you got the info from ok because it seems to me that greazy was just being a smart arse


Thank you for giving us your insight greazy so we AG folks can discuss this here. But i guess showing off your mad google skills makes up for a lack of opinion.

you can also see it here:

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/11/sony-monitor-record-psn-communication

and http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/11/5090404/sony-may-monitor-and-record-psn-voice-and-text-communications

and http://www.computerandvideogames.com/437572/sony-can-monitor-and-record-psn-activity/

and http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/11/sony-may-monitor-your-psn-and-community-activity-share-data-with-affiliated-companies/

and http://www.ps3trophies.org/news/news-11598-Sony-May-Monitor-and-Record-PSN-Activity-and-Pass-It-On-For-Use-By--Affiliated-Companies-.html

and http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/11/11/sony-has-the-option-to-monitor-and-record-user-psn-activity/

and on about another 1000 sites on the net.

But it wasnt here and we have been discussing next gen consoles pros and cons so thought id put this news topic up for those who might have something to say
01:30pm 12/11/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37522 posts
So thank you for giving us your insight greazy so we AG folks can discuss this here.
what greazy did is what you are supposed to do on this forum - cite a reference.

The first thing I was going to do after glancing at your post and seeing you'd failed to include a reference link was ask for one (or just delete your post for failure to cite a reference, I hadn't decided yet). Fortunately for you, greazy saved your bacon!

Please don't be snarky at regular users while you're still a noob, in case it turns out - like in this instance - you've done something terribly terribly wrong.
01:34pm 12/11/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18921 posts
well before making outraged posts at sony or anyone, you should provide the actual source article of your rage

i'm sure those exact terms are in the terms and agreements for the PS3 / PSN
01:35pm 12/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
486 posts
the difference pave is its never been as invasive as next gen will be because of all the bells and whistles
01:49pm 12/11/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
37524 posts
Well, I'll never buy a Sony product until they change the way they do business anyway, so I don't have a big interest in this personally.

This sort of thing I think is par for the course now; people have proven they're generally happy to trade off their rights in some obscure EULA that they assume will never come back to bite them. I think for Sony to service the customers in the way that they want to - to provide this big living room experience that does all this automation - they basically have to provide a big list of all the new and interesting ways their technology needs to "invade" your privacy to provide the experience that they want to provide.

Whether it's a big deal or not, only time will tell - if your data is compromised and someone hax your PS4 and leaks video footage of you jumping around doing Star Wars moves in your underwear, then people might start paying attention to the risks of a fully integrated experience.
02:40pm 12/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
487 posts
Its basically only when our freedoms get taken away do people react. By then its usually too late. If they had been more active about preserving their freedoms before they were eroded it might of been more helpful.

Ive also no interest in supporting consoles even if they try to force me to get one by ransom of great exclusive titles. Basically all they have atm are exclusive titles. The hardware is old and the over watch big brother is crazy. I can live without a few good games.

on a side note this arrived in my PM inbox. I can provide a screen cap if its required? Dont know if this the right place for it but here is the lovely message that was

Subject: haha
Ignore Contact
Add to Contacts
greazy
2 hours ago
f*****

1st I didnt know what to make of this cryptic message. But now i think i have it and so I wanted to share his kind words with everyone. They should not be held as a secret between us greazy. I now know of your love for me but unfortunately im not looking for a boy friend so im afraid you will need to look elsewhere.

Kind regards tho i hope we can still be just friends
06:40pm 12/11/13 Permalink
beau
Brisbane, Queensland
273 posts
PM stands for 'private message'
you should keep it that way
06:50pm 12/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
489 posts
He might feel its "private" but i know he is just shy. How could i keep his love a secret? its not fair on him especially as im setting him free. Now he can come out
in the open and just be himself.
06:59pm 12/11/13 Permalink
syzk
Sunshine Coast, Queensland
86 posts
MUUUUUUMM GREAZY CALLED ME A F*****!!!!!
07:13pm 12/11/13 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
22393 posts
07:21pm 12/11/13 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
18922 posts
the problem for you rulz is that everyone agrees with greazy's pm
07:28pm 12/11/13 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1608 posts
the problem for you rulz is that everyone agrees with greazy's pm


no he's in the same boat as infi, and why would you call someone a bundle of wood anyway.
08:30pm 12/11/13 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
4637 posts
This sort of thing I think is par for the course now; people have proven they're generally happy to trade off their rights in some obscure EULA that they assume will never come back to bite them.

Has anything ever actually happened to "come back and bite you" that can be directly related to a T&C I wonder?

Also isn't there some self protection in these agreements for the companies?

Doesn't sound any different to the Xbox terms and I doubt it's going to affect sales on either console.
08:30pm 12/11/13 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
5022 posts
PM stands for 'private message'you should keep it that way
How ironic having that statement in this thread.
Greazy lost ownership of that "f*****" once he hit send.
08:33pm 12/11/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23622 posts
Is there some esteemed law-talking guy who has explained the ramifications of this whole EULA thing? It seems whenever a new thing comes out its EULA is full of draconian, privacy invading clauses that at face-value sound quite scary. Is there a possibility entertainment companies really want to invade our privacy hardcore so they can sell our infos to the highest bidder, or is it just a case of them covering their arses should someone ever sue them for invasion of privacy based off the capabilities of their hardware (camera, recording equipment etc).
08:45pm 12/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
490 posts
its in the same boat, well for me, as the gov saying they need to add this draconian measure or enhanced police powers bad law "to protect average citizens and average citizens have nothing to worry about etc etc"

cough cough bikes terrorists etc etc

as for them just trying to protect themselves well if what they add needs some crazy EULA to protect themselves maybe just dont add it?
09:15pm 12/11/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23623 posts
I think the difference is the level of power the government has versus Microsoft or Sony. Governments have the power to arrest you, charge you with things and then lock you up for them. Any small amount of power they have can be amplified and abused because of this to really f*** a person's life up. Microsoft and Sony don't have this power. All they can do is ban you from their services or send your personal information to a third party for money. It is still potentially dangerous for them to be able to do some of the things mentioned in their EULA but it just doesn't alarm me as much as the government doing the same thing.

However that's just my potentially naive reading of the situation. Could be completely wrong for all I know.
09:26pm 12/11/13 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
4267 posts
MUUUUUUMM GREAZY CALLED ME A F*****!!!!!

inorite.

Should call the police and report that s***.
10:41pm 12/11/13 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
3343 posts
people have proven they're generally happy to trade off their rights in some obscure EULA that they assume will never come back to bite them.
I'm not the worlds greatest lawyer, or a lawyer but I don't think you can sign away your rights.
10:42pm 12/11/13 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
4340 posts
Its basically only when our freedoms get taken away do people react.


ZOMG WE ARE LOZING OUR FREEDOMZ.. quick someone get a gun to protect us from evil sony!

cause you know its really hard to just not buy the bloody thing...

/sarcasm

I'm not the worlds greatest lawyer, or a lawyer but I don't think you can sign away your rights.


Greazy case in point? lol :-P
10:56pm 12/11/13 Permalink
trillion
Brisbane, Queensland
3410 posts
on a similar correlation, i logged into my Google account recently after dealing with them burning down rss Reader and almost all of my records of dates and messages had been changed by either some 3rd party or Google corporate/main (not sure how they would be refereed to anyway)

now this is what i had changed my password over and over again for because of some a****** administrator nuking my account in the past. so even if you slap on 2-factor auth for that magic number layer of sec it still doesn't seem to stop 3rd parties (or whoever they are) from snooping and changing things.

now they've also started pushing account activity notifications since that mystery audit and other such assholio loophole things.

it's almost like back when Eudora/PGP was assured privacy. like f***.

you can imagine it's non existent in Outlook/Exchange environments.
11:01pm 12/11/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
661 posts
Rulez is worried everyone will find out he wears a fedora and looks like a confused metrosexual...

..wait.


None of this is that special really. There are more and more people using the net that don't care about it's health now than there was 20 years ago. S***, the media has only picked up on the word troll over the past 12 months. With the amount of kids that will get into the PS4 and bully each other around - whether through following them into games, voice/text spam, threats, avatars of bad taste, etc - it's only a good thing that much of the network will be monitored so the place can stay clean and usable to the many.

This won't mean they are listening to conversations in your house, it won't mean they're watching you through a cam unsolicited. You really think you are a big enough fish that Sony will try and identify your PS4 and watch you rules? LOL.

I can see these changes all being a good thing unless you have something to hide. It would be nice if you familiarized yourself with AG rules as much as PSN EULA's so it's not as funny when you say things like "us AG folk" and trying to slowly subvert the way things are done and turn it back into the infested s***hole that was GameArena. Oh yes, you know what I'm talking about.

This information can be handed over to the police or other appropriate authorities, Sony said. Accepting the Software Usage Terms means users consent to this.

Though Sony may monitor and record PSN activity, the company said users should not worry about the company having a permanent and exhaustive record of their online actions.

"We can't monitor all PSN activity and we make no commitment to do so," Sony said.

The updated Terms of Usage also points out that all PlayStation software is "licensed, not sold," meaning players acquire rights to use software, but do not own said software.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-may-monitor-and-record-all-psn-activity-on-playstation-4/1100-6416099/

^The rest of the article you didn't really put up, which indicates it's mostly for law enforcement (cops realise people are using game services to discuss criminal activities) and isn't non-stop surveillance of each Playstation like you indicate when you say "So basically this console is like having a corporate controlled mic and webcam and tracker sitting live in your living room watching you. Always on. Always connected."

It's not the tech that's the problem, it's the habits of the people who use it that's the problem. Bad habits that Sony wants to stamp out, good on them. Unless you're a criminal (or habitually break community/provider rules) you have nothing to worry about.
09:15am 13/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
494 posts
a good thing unless you have something to hide


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_privacy
12:49pm 13/11/13 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
23628 posts
I think an argument that holds true is that if you don't like what the EULA says, don't buy the product.
12:53pm 13/11/13 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
495 posts
The last console i owned took cartridges. So yeah im not going to run right out and get one of these any time soon but the sad thing is they will still sell millions.

Why could that be bad? Because policy makers look at this stuff. When gov types look at what people are willing to accept it might not be such a leap to imagine it going from corporate to gov (they are essentially the same thing these days any way). Gov policy makers hanging around the board room:

"Well from what the data the corps are giving us say, millions of people are happy to put a webcam in their living rooms. they are happy for corps to record all their conversations and track their movements. Well if they are ok for private corps to do that they wont have an issue with us hooking into the feed,,, after all


had trouble embedding that so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZFH4wCLVXY if it doesnt work for u


we just need to say something about it being for their protection"
01:39pm 13/11/13 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6122 posts
haha some people are really predictable.

no he's in the same boat as infi, and why would you call someone a bundle of wood anyway.

I'm not a liberal. Also I will concede a point when presented with strong factual evidence.

Please don't lump me in the same about or associate me with that guy.

Apart from his liberal ideals infi isn't the worst guy.
04:27pm 13/11/13 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
667 posts
Has anything ever actually happened to "come back and bite you" that can be directly related to a T&C I wonder?
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/contello/36841378/362809/362809_original.jpg

Awh! So sori Kairu. but I am starving! Which would you rather I eat? Should I eat-uh cuttlefish and asparagus, or the vanilla paste-o?!
11:07pm 13/11/13 Permalink
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11:07pm 13/11/13 Permalink
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