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Post by Eorl @ 08:24am 28/12/12 | 68 Comments
 Our original intent with PvP for Diablo III was to provide more formal support for the duelling community that existed in Diablo II. We wanted to give players some kind of structure that would not only make it easier for you to duel with one another, but also allow you to have duels that were team-based. This is how our Team Deathmatch mode emerged, and it's been instrumental in making a lot of improvements to Diablo III. But in continuing to develop this mode, playtest it, and put it in front of other developers within the company, we've found that it falls short of our expectations for a high-quality Blizzard experience.Speaking to AusGamers earlier in the year, just prior to the game's launch, Jay Wilson had a very different projection for the PvP update's launch: For the PvP patch, we definitely... I would say, we want to get it out within months after release. I would say, if it showed up close to the end of the year, that would be... I would say, almost a disaster. So I don’t see it slipping out of this year at all, and I think it’ll be much sooner.However, we're not sure what the effects of that so-called disaster might be. While the news is disapointing for those who were expecting the touted PvP mode before the end of the year, Blizzard has also revealed that a dulling system will be put into place in the early part of next year with patch 1.0.7, allowing those wanting to fight their friends in-game. While this is the first step to a proper PvP experience in Diablo 3, Blizzard has reassured that Team Deathmatch will find its way back once they are happy with it, something Blizzard strives for most in their long history of gaming. You can check out the full PvP updated over at the official website and let us know your thoughts on this latest update in the comments below. 
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Posted 08:39am 28/12/12
Posted 09:48am 28/12/12
I tend to wonder what they are doing instead of PvP arenas now. More PvE content perhaps? Some more PvE end-game content would probably get me playing again.
Posted 10:33am 28/12/12
i hope i played a small part in getting this changed..
i posted
this was just after it was announced that there would be a pvp blog.. and a day or so later Jay said there would be no seperate pvp gear..
then i said this a few days ago
maybe bliz does listen to the community
Posted 11:57am 28/12/12
Posted 01:43pm 28/12/12
Posted 02:59pm 28/12/12
Is it really even that highly anticipated anymore? 6 months ago I was interested in trying it out, couldn't really care less anymore though, I forgot it was even supposed to be coming out. At this point they'd almost be better off just rolling it into the expansion, it'd probably get more attention that way.
Posted 03:58pm 28/12/12
Posted 08:48pm 28/12/12
Living players gave up on D3 a long time ago.
Posted 10:39pm 28/12/12
I didn't even really have fun the first play through (normal mode) but was determined to see my money's worth.
I eventually got my money's worth... By never playing it again and instead playing Torchlight 2...
Path of Exile also seems to be something which might fill the void Diablo 3 pissed on in so many people.
Posted 11:52pm 28/12/12
"It’s important to understand that Diablo is not World of Warcraft, meaning that there will be no major content patches with new dungeons, or bosses, or enemies. We have plans on patching in PvP of course, but in general the only ‘content’ we would patch in would most likely just be new items.Diablo III will see patches to adjust things like game balance and potential system improvements, but any actual content additions is not something you should expect to see. The purpose of the randomized dungeons and items in any Diablo game is to provide an endless amount out of content right out of the box."
That would be all fine and dandy if it was the D3 we were all hoping for, saying that is just a slap in the face they delivered an unfinished product that cut out half of the interesting features we saw in the 2008 Gameplay Trailer, the least they could have done was give us a few content patches to make up for it (and no Monster Power don't count IMO) nice job Bli$$ard nice job spitting in the face of your customers once more with the PVP delay even if i don't care for PVP it was promised and not delivered.
Posted 09:11am 30/12/12
Posted 09:43am 30/12/12
Posted 10:12am 30/12/12
i just can't find anything to say to disagree with this
they pushed way too hard to make the game a perpetual money making machine, if they had just re-directed all of that time and effort into the game itself and not how they can put everyone into a holding pattern for as long as possible once they finish hell difficulty to make money it would have been a great game
last edited by paveway at 10:12:29 30/Dec/12
Posted 10:55am 30/12/12
I'm guessing the only people playing it are ex-wowers. Diablo 3 will truely die when the next warcraft mmo comes out. Atm Blizzard are recycling their player base to keep their numbers up.
Posted 02:10pm 30/12/12
Posted 05:03pm 30/12/12
Doubt it, it wasn't really anything like WoW.
Definitely wasn't up to the standard expected from Blizzard though, and there seemed to be a whole lot of really weird choices made throughout the development of it that just don't make sense. You would think the D3 team would be drawing upon the collective experience of the company and getting advice from or leveraging tech from the other teams, but at times it almost seemed like they were going it alone because they made so many mistakes which they really shouldn't have made considering how long they've been making games, and specifically, online games.
I thought the game itself was ok, I enjoyed it at the time. It had a nonsense story but it was fun for a bit, I think I got something like 120 hours out of it all up which is more than I get out of most games. But it definitely doesn't have the lastability or the appeal that D2 did in its day. But then all the other shit they tacked on around the game, like the RMAH, was just a disaster, worst decision they've ever made. I think there was also a lot of crying about a lot of stupid things that don't matter, and a lot of people making a fuss about trivial nonsense, and a lot of hate directed at it just cos its Blizzard and they've apparently become popular to hate, but the criticisms of the RMAH and other such retarded decisions that were made ring pretty true.
Most disappointing game for me for a while, not because it was outright bad, but just because I was expecting so much from it, and it fell so short.
Posted 09:33pm 30/12/12
'BAD GUY TELEPATHICALLY TELLS YOU EVERY MOVE HE IS GOING TO MAKE'
what-the-fuck
how did any single person let alone a full team of blizzard people probably more like half the company collectively go 'gee, what a good idea'
last edited by paveway at 21:33:05 30/Dec/12
Posted 09:45pm 30/12/12
Posted 11:02pm 30/12/12
anal logies
Posted 11:48pm 30/12/12
Posted 12:00am 31/12/12
in what way did it fall short
Posted 12:14am 31/12/12
Posted 12:28am 31/12/12
Well, I'm not really making a definitive list, but theres a number of reasons it fell short for me. Story in games is a big thing for me, and as pave pointed out the story in D3 was pretty retarded, which was disappointing considering Blizzard have shown with WoW and SC2 that they can actually tell pretty good stories. But the AH was another thing that to me felt like it really ruined the feel of what makes the game a Diablo game. If it was just something tacked on that could be ignored if you didn't want to use it, it wouldn't be so bad, but it had this ripple effect throughout the rest of the game. Because people could now go to the AH for loot, they turned down the amount of loot that dropped in game, and that fun feeling you got in D2 when looting new upgrades pretty much disappeared as you almost NEVER got items that were upgrades or better than what was on the AH. I mean, Blizzard themselves even said that they consider gearing up via the AH as part of the progression now, and for me that just fundamentally changed the feeling of the game and made it a lot less fun.
I didn't mind the changes to the skills system, I think the people getting hung up on that are just obsessing a little bit too much and I think it was a change for the better, and I actually really liked the whole runes thing, but it was the changes that fundamentally altered the Diablo formula that really made it lose its shine for me. Also, it was too easy on Nightmare and Hell difficulty, and then when you hit Inferno it was just way overtuned and way too hard unless you were playing a class you could cheese it with, or you'd fall back on using a set of abilities with a set of runes and never ever change them (which fundamentally broke the whole new skill system they'd built) and end up kiting shit around and taking forever to kill it, which just wasn't fun. It also felt a bit too easy to get a max level character and it didn't really feel like much of an achievement when you did, at least half of the boss fights were just too long and boring and lacked interesting mechanics, and girly Diablo was just shit and nowhere near as cool and menacing as oldschool Diablo.
And the ending was shit, but I guess that is part of the 'the story was shit' point. I was just expecting more I guess.
Posted 12:59am 31/12/12
sure the story is cheesy.. but so is the d2 story.. its basically the same story..
I also agree when they released the game the difficulty was overtuned in inferno.. i guess they wanted to give the true believers a challenge.. the fact that a team cleared inferno pre nurf on hc says it was doable.. but not for everyone.. after this they retuned the difficulty/added monster power and added paragon leveling.. this maybe should have been in the game from the beginning..
the sad part is most of the whiners say the rmah is what ruined the game.. but its not true.. what ruined the game is fuckheads who buy game items/gold for real money.. if you want to blame anyone for a shitty ah system blame them
blizz made a call to try and at least control gold/item selling and good on them for it.. in hindsight yes it failed.. but not because the of the rmah.. but because of the ppl using the rmah...
all i ever see on the forums is kiddies whining about how JAYWILSON FUCKED THE FRANSCHISE!!1! but i bet these are the same fuckwads who are buying gold/items on the rmah...
my only real gripe with the game is there needs to be better bot detection/bans, blizzards ban waves dont work.. they need to be every day/week to make it unprofitable for botters to fuck the game..
my other gripe is there is no sense of community or getting to know other players... a better idea would be to have a central properly laid out lobby where you could see who was logged in etc.. now it kind of feels like a ghost town as you only see the ppl in your friends list.. when in fact there are 1000's playing
imho the game is good, visuals are great, progression and balance are now great, long term goals are great.. the game overall for me at this moment is great..
its also good that blizz decided to scrap the pvp in favour of putting in a balanced reward type system (my guess) which will also strengthen the game
my 2 cents
Posted 01:23am 31/12/12
I get they wanted to control item trading/selling, but maybe it should have been something just used for high-end gear, set pieces and legendaries and stuff that people would really be hunting for, and not have it accesible or useable at all while levelling and playing through to 60, cos thats what killed it for me. I'm not sure I ever got a single piece of loot while levelling up that gave me that "Woah coooool!" feeling that you used to get when you'd get a sweet upgrade drop in D2, I got nearly every single one of my upgrades from the AH because there just wasn't an alternative, and thats not fun :(
Posted 09:41am 31/12/12
I tend to agree that this really is the issue of the loot/reward system in d3. I think the AH is a good idea, but there is little satisfaction in grinding for items to sell on the AH to make gold, all so you can then purchase an upgrade. Getting drops that you can use is far more entertaining.
Also keep in mind for the loot system to work for you, you have to know how to use the AH to a reasonable degree. This in my mind creates a steeper learning curve. You are required to have a good idea on how to make gold, before you can be effective in the end-game. This moves the emphasis away from killing monsters, and more towards working the economy, which some people just don't enjoy (myself included).
Posted 12:01pm 31/12/12
That team in no way represents the average player. And that means it doesn't represent you so I don't see the point nor reasoning behind adding this odd fact into your point of view. It doesn't have anything to do with your nor my playing experience of D3.
Blizzard didn't just destroy their own game with the RMAH, they liquidated their hardcore fan base. The graphics are way too zoomed in which just isn't Diablo at all not to mention the stupid painterly style, a skills system without attribute points or skills points isn't Diablo at all. They've made a totally different game to begin with and tossed in some Diablo characters so it would sell to a marketplace that were waiting feverishly for the next Diablo.
Diablo 3 wasn't just the most Disappointing Game of 2012 it will be the most Disappointing Game of this Decade. I don't see anyway for it to be topped.
Posted 01:25pm 31/12/12
To pickup where Khel left off (and I agree with the points he made), the joy you used to feel when finding a unique item is gone. Now when you find a legendary item, it's crap. Blizzard themselves admitted as much, and patched the game to improve legendary base stats by 40 per cent. And guess what? They're still absolute crap. I haven't obtained a single legendary item I can use after picking up about 50 of them. I've completed the game on all difficulty levels, and yet I still haven't found the plans to unlock half the blacksmith's elite items, or three of the four jeweller's plans to unlock higher rated gems. I've found TWO set items (both of which my barbarian can't use) - am I supposed to replay the game endlessly waiting for half this stuff to drop?
The game has disabled playing offline, and you can't play when there's maintenance being performed. If you walk into an icy square room with a hole in the middle and four narrow side walkways, the south and east walkways will ALWAYS spawn a horde of flying creatures. Always. Random dungeons my arse. They've made dungeons like lego pieces. They join together randomly, but the pieces themselves remain the same, killing replayability. There's no hidden rooms as in D2 or Torchlight - a big loss. You can no longer jump from one waypoint quest to another waypoint quest. Did I get 70 odd hours out of the game? Yes. Will I get the 1000+ hours I got out of D2? Hardly. After ten years of development, D3 is a pale shadow of what such a classic deserved. When the 'talent' left Blizzard North for Runic Games and Torchlight, the leftovers remained to put together D3. Unfortunately, it shows.
Posted 09:46pm 31/12/12
Cigarette manufacturers aren't to blame for the strain on our public and private health systems.
It's purely the fault of the fuckhead smokers who smoke and get cancer, right?
Posted 10:37pm 31/12/12
are you brain dead? demand drives production.. if smokers would stop so would production of cigarettes
cig companies = gold botters
cig smokers = dipshit gold buyers
maybe you could add the next 5 words in that sentence...
its meaningful because I got to act 3 and couldn't complete the game.. it was too hard and i was too noob... that doesnt mean you dont give a challenge to the real hardcore players.. who did beat the game.. then they nurfed it so the other 95% of ppl could complete it..
i think this is the perfect way to approach difficulty as it please all parties in the end..
and drops are just luck... i have 1000 hours on my monk and i have 104 brimstones and found about 10 usable/sellable legendaries.. this is fine for me.. when i do find a really good legendary.. it really feels like i got something...
also I was just playing HC mp10 from the beginning where we only use items we find. We just downed butcher.. was great fun.. it fun when you find that white fine crossbow and its a huge upgrade.. there is no reason why you cant play like this and forget the ah.. the way i play 90% of my upgrades are not from the ah..
in the end the game is what you make of it - if d3 alienated the d2 fans so what.. i can tell you they prob made up 10x more new fans.. if i was going to cater a game to people who spent 11 years playing d2 i think i would prefer to tell them to fuck em selves.. go get counseling and get a life
Posted 03:21am 01/1/13
Posted 05:18am 01/1/13
Posted 02:13pm 01/1/13
Yeah I eventually lost count of how many forum posts that started with "Man, I hated D2 but D3 is just amazing!"
Posted 03:21pm 01/1/13
Posted 04:25pm 01/1/13
Huh? The only troll must surely be you. No one could possibly have such flawed logic to lay 100% lame on consumers of a product/service.
Then again all of your posts in this thread have been crazy, illogical fanboy defences of Blizzard, so there's no real point arguing with you.
Posted 08:19pm 01/1/13
by new fans i mean people who didnt play d2..
Posted 10:16am 02/1/13
+1. Crazy and illogical are kind of the same thing. How about ignorant, crazy, stupid and pointless... Saying things like 'I would prefer to tell them to fuck em selves.. go get counseling and get a life.' after just admitting you're totally hooked on D3 and a complete fan of it is just mind boggling. What do you have against people who have enjoyed a game for 10 years, some people have enjoyed a single game all their life. Anyhow have fun with your D3, acti-blizzard are your problem now.
Posted 10:37am 02/1/13
I guess it does makes sense that someone might become a fan of D3 if they weren't aware of how great D2 was. :)
Posted 11:02am 02/1/13
haha wow, we all know the game didn't really live up to par but that's some serious butt hurt, are you sure you'll be able to go on after dealing with such a horrible game?
Posted 11:07am 02/1/13
edit: wait it is a new decade isn't it.
Posted 12:19pm 02/1/13
After playing all those awesome "porn flash games" you love so much, I imagine most games would be a severe disappointment in comparison...
Posted 12:15pm 02/1/13
Depends... are we're talking about calendar decades or Spike VGA decades?
Posted 02:35pm 02/1/13
Posted 08:32pm 02/1/13
i'm not a fanboi..i just dont give a fuck about all the haters drama.. i just like the game.. is that too hard to comprehend? and i find 100% of the haters drama comes from old d2 players..
you know how to fix it? go back and play d2 and stop hating bro
my fav hater posts are the ones beginning I'M QUITTING THIS SHIT GAME - then continue for 100 pages of dribble, where all the haters get together and circle jerk each other..
its just a game.. either play it and enjoy it.. or dont play it and do something else with your life..
Posted 09:02pm 02/1/13
Posted 09:22pm 02/1/13
I don't like Diablo 3 or Mass Effect 3 and I'm quite content just not playing them.
Posted 12:17am 03/1/13
Blizzard has, up until Diablo 3 only released games in 100% polished and complete states. Diablo 3 was not complete (no PvP), heavily unbalanced and not tested even remotely enough to justify releasing it when they did. It was a horrible mistake made by a team with a horrible leader:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Diablo-3-Jay-Wilson-Tells-Diablo-2-Designer-Fans-F-ck-Off-45895.html
That's right. The designer of Diablo 3 told the creator of the entire Diablo series to F%#k off. Think about that for a second and think about the legacy this guy has left on Diablo.
Not only has he ruined the franchise, but he has spat on the faces of all previous and loyal Diablo fans.
In essence, please do not try talk about a game you know nothing about.
/End rant.
Posted 12:23am 03/1/13
Posted 01:03am 03/1/13
If you read my post again Dark Might, you'll see I wasn't talking about the game at all, just about all the bitchy little girl whinging coming from people like you that hasn't stopped since it came out.
Don't like what they did? Tell them once, don't play the game and don't buy their shit again. Don't make 20 threads a month about how shit the game was and how Jay Wilson's a cunt. We already get it, it's been going for over 6 months now, move on with your life.
Posted 01:17am 03/1/13
OMG someone else gets it!!
(ps i'll circle jerk you later kos)
Posted 03:05am 03/1/13
Posted 07:31am 03/1/13
Posted 10:07am 03/1/13
Posted 11:00am 03/1/13
The whinging is fine, the endlessness of it is just sad.
\o/ victory!
(And cheers Superform, though I think I'll have to take a raincheck...)
Posted 10:50am 03/1/13
It was shit compared to every game.
Posted 11:14am 03/1/13
I think it's fine. Gives continued exposure to the negativity and empty promises surrounding the game.
Otherwise Blizzard will just look at initial sales figures and believe all is well, and try another round of the same old shit for their next title.
Posted 11:34am 03/1/13
Either way, I think they'll care much more about active player numbers and RMAH activity than they will the incessant moaning.
Posted 12:52pm 03/1/13
- Addition of RMAH. By itself this is not an especially bad thing, but when you combine it with other problems it became a shitty element.
- Poor loot and itemisation.
- Poor implementation of Inferno.
- Poor (absent) PVP.
- Poor skill tuning and balance, resulting in cookie cutter builds in a system designed to alleviate this.
- Poor story.
- Poor randomisation.
Took me a while to really appreciate this. Where they fucked up is not modelling the back of of things, something they toted as awesome in a dev interview! If they could have just rotated the base maps D2 style AND included the new randomisation features it would have made replays and grinding Inferno more bearable.
- Poor launch.
- Poor support. This is a personal one but if I can't back up my data you should support your users better.
- Removal of local multiplayer.
- Removal of single player.
- Once a week downtime.
Its the combination of these flaws that makes it the weak game that it is. You could bear the shit story and bad maps if the item hunt was still good and you had lots of skill builds to play with.
Its just all together that it makes it a very ordinary game. Some of these items have been addressed and are being addressed, but I think its too little too late..
Posted 12:55pm 03/1/13
Posted 01:02pm 03/1/13
Actually I reckon people constantly bashing D3 is very serious for them. They don't churn out lots of games, their entire business model is built on staggered, high quality, anticipated releases that perform well.
I've pre-ordered everything from them since starcraft ... now I'm unsure and feel like maybe waiting for reviews maybe. I'm not the only one.
Posted 01:30pm 03/1/13
But it's not anymore, is it? And that's exactly the reason I think they'll care more about RMAH activity than general whining on the internet.
Ever since Blizzard made more money than god with WoW and the subscription model they've obviously been desperately trying to think of ways to make money across the life of a game instead of only at release. Taking a cut from SC2 Arcade and D3 RMAH is their way of trying to achieve that.
So even if they get lots of negative feedback about the game and lose some previously loyal fans, if people are still playing the games and they're still making good money from the chumps who are willing to spend in the RMAH then their business looks good.
Posted 01:31pm 03/1/13
Some of us believe that's a sad reflection of the successes of the past and the depths the industry is willing to sink to in order to make a buck. Who cares if they're even making good games any more? The river of money is still flowing in, right?
Posted 01:55pm 03/1/13
Trends like this say it all for me really:
That's top grossing, as in the apps bringing in the most cash from either app or in-app purchases.
Posted 02:08pm 03/1/13
On the contrary.
Take Ubisoft. They were including draconian DRM with their PC titles until a couple of solid years of customer complaints made them back off and drop their system.
The worst thing to do would be to give Blizzard a pass when they say "oops, been too busy with the RMAH to bother fulfilling our promise of developing PvP".
Posted 02:09pm 03/1/13
thus the whole game is a peice of shit because it is centered around that question
Posted 08:03pm 03/1/13
Posted 08:20pm 03/1/13
I don't think they're exactly comparable. For starters the thing everyone was complaining about with Ubisoft was something that is present in the same way on every game and is easily removable if they really want to, not to mention the fact that with Ubisoft's DRM there were multiple games per year that this was affecting.
Secondly – knowing how cunty Ubisoft really are, and considering that it took years for them to relent – I would be willing to put money on the fact that it was actually decreased sales of multiple titles on PC that prompted them to make their decision. If there was that much complaining but sales were still through the roof I seriously doubt they would have considered removing it for a second.
Either way, the issues with the game are not something that Blizzard are going to 'relent' on if you guys bleat repeatedly enough that you didn't like the game (especially when the majority of the responses to any news about Diablo 3 are basically just "Haha, are people still playing this? Too little too late! Fuck Jay Wilson!!"). Genuine criticism about new developments is one thing, but as I said before if they haven't got the message about what people didn't like about the game yet, they never will.
Posted 02:20pm 06/1/13
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