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Post by Dan @ 06:19am 13/09/12 | 236 Comments
As expected, Apple's much anticipated press conference yielded the announcement of the device now officially dubbed the iPhone 5 (thanks kos). Due to the quality of rumours in recent weeks, the reveal lacked any big surprises, confirming the latest iteration would have a larger 4-inch display, a new smaller proprietary docking port connected, and support for 4G LTE cellular networks.

The biggest positive for Australian iPhone fans is that the new model will support the 4G networks of both Telstra and Optus (as well as Vodaphone's eventually planned frequency).

The processor is a new A6 chip, which boasts twice the graphics performance of the 4S, and in addition to being a little taller, at 7.6mm, the overall device is a little slimmer than its predecessor and a quaint 18 grams lighter.

Battery life has also apparently received a boost, now purportedly offering 8 hours of call talk time or 10 hours of wifi web browsing, but details on the advantages of the new "lightning" dock connector were not forthcoming, only that it is 80% smaller and less damage-prone.

Outright Australian pricing has been pegged at A$799 for 16GB, A$899 for 32GB, and A$999 for 64GB. Although we'll no doubt see local carriers reveal much lower contract-subsidised prices shortly. Head over to apple.com for more particulars.












Latest Comments
BOOST
Posted 07:37am 13/9/12
So do you have to buy the iPhone 5 to use Facetime over 3G?
kos
Posted 08:09am 13/9/12
Pffsh, my OP was way more interesting and realistic. This is blatant censorship! You're most definitely NOT welcome, Dan. ;P

Here's my awesome comparison pic anyway:
25k4jep.png

Funny to read the reporting of Apple fans kidding themselves:
20.31 John Gruber, the doyen of Apple bloggers, is pleased.
And it looks great. Truly all-new design.

All new? Hmm.

"Truly all-new design." ha ha... classic.
Caveboy
Posted 07:57am 13/9/12
Lol at this rate I think my Iphone 4 will do me until the Iphone 12.
HeardY
Posted 08:03am 13/9/12
gotta love the isheep and fanboi's though I guess there are fanboi's for all platforms.

one thing you've got to give Apple, they certainly know how to market and promote their BS incremental updates and holding back 'features' because they are 'all new' and they have done it properly.

$35 for an adapter to use existing docks and accessories - it'll be interesting to see if they lose some of their users because of this, might be the final straw for some to try Android or even Windows phone when it's release...
DK
Posted 08:13am 13/9/12
F*** even the stay at home mums are posting about it on my FB. Free advertising

Mums followibg tech news. What is the world coming to
Thundercracker
Posted 08:39am 13/9/12
s'ok
Murderer
Posted 08:43am 13/9/12
Sold my 4S to get my S3 and havnt looked back since!

Considering I have a blue and a white s3 I feel kinda special.

Anyone wanna buy my white s3? (16gb unlocked) all perfect, never dropped no scratches etc :D
Mantis
Posted 08:59am 13/9/12
Creepy
Posted 09:00am 13/9/12
With the amount of criticism being levelled at today's announcement, I'm left wondering just what on Earth were people expecting?

This just in, technology advances DO plateau!

If anything, it's a good thing, as it turns the irresponsible notion of 'new phone every year' on its head.
TufNuT
Posted 09:10am 13/9/12
FML I work in an IT department full of Apple fanboys /wrists
all anyone can talk about today it seems is the iphone 5 and how awesome it is and who will be the first to get it......Sigh
kos
Posted 09:15am 13/9/12
1268dia.jpg
Opec
Posted 09:21am 13/9/12
^^^hahah kos
deadlyf
Posted 09:27am 13/9/12
Will it run Jellybean?
carson
Posted 09:41am 13/9/12
gotta love the isheep and fanboi's though I guess there are fanboi's for all platforms.one thing you've got to give Apple, they certainly know how to market and promote their BS incremental updates and holding back 'features' because they are 'all new' and they have done it properly.$35 for an adapter to use existing docks and accessories - it'll be interesting to see if they lose some of their users because of this, might be the final straw for some to try Android or even Windows phone when it's release...

Apple fans are a special breed. They will just replace all their old peripherals with new ones because it was "time to upgrade" anyway.

I am sure many Apple fans will be paying out of contracts this month (or whenever the new one hits Aus shores) to upgrade to the new phone. So Apple and the telcos win.
Khel
Posted 10:02am 13/9/12
details on the advantages of the new "lightning" dock connector were not forthcoming, only that it is 80% smaller and less damage-prone


You know what else is 80% smaller and less damage-prone? Micro usb ports.
Caveboy
Posted 10:05am 13/9/12
I need a new cheap pair of earphones and the redesigned ones for $35 look pretty good.

RockitMan
Posted 10:11am 13/9/12
Pretty much as expected. Would like to try iPhone 5 and Lumia 920 side by side.
glynd
Posted 10:18am 13/9/12
Pffsh, my OP was way more interesting and realistic. This is blatant censorship! You're most definitely NOT welcome, Dan. ;PHere's my awesome comparison pic anyway.


took me a good minute to work out which one in the picture was the new one ... it's the one on the left yeah? the wallpaper gave it away.
Hogfather
Posted 10:36am 13/9/12
Yeh waiting until I can sit down in the Telstra shop with a Lumia 920, S3 and iPhone side by side I reckon.
scuzzy
Posted 11:11am 13/9/12
http://store.apple.com/au/product/MD823ZM/A/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter?fnode=48

That's a bit rich
details on the advantages of the new "lightning" dock connector were not forthcoming, only that it is 80% smaller and less damage-prone
No more line out audio for car stereo

last edited by scuzzy at 11:11:27 13/Sep/12
TicMan
Posted 11:12am 13/9/12
That new power connector just makes Apple are a bunch of c****.
thermite
Posted 11:16am 13/9/12
Some company is selling a very slightly different version of a cheap chinese electronics product that is just one of hundreds of such products that come out every year.

Let's talk about it on QGL and on Facebook and ambush me in the kitchen to discuss it when I'm just trying to make a coffee.


last edited by thermite at 11:16:24 13/Sep/12
TiT
Posted 11:33am 13/9/12
i do like the new connector as you can put it in anyway, this is what i hate about USB i can never get it right the first time. I was reading that cheap chinese electronics wont be able to make them until 3 months time as that is when apple will release the spec design.
Space Ninja
Posted 11:53am 13/9/12
what the f*** were they thinking when they decided on the 'new' ipod nano?

f*** me sideways.
csirac
Posted 11:54am 13/9/12
i notice the new iphone has the earphone plug on the bottom now. copyright infringment
paveway
Posted 12:22pm 13/9/12
unfortunately there are the strex's of the world that celebrate new iphone day and will buy that s*** No-matter-what

enjoy your new connector lul
Alize`
Posted 12:30pm 13/9/12
Hey guys, Anyone using a Galaxy s3 and have no problems with exchange activesync? This is a game changer for me as I really need this to work flawlessly for work. I immediately ditched the Galaxy S after some issues with push.
Midda
Posted 01:02pm 13/9/12
link
Dan
Posted 01:09pm 13/9/12
Ok:
1\ iPhone
2\ iPhone 3G
3\ iPhone 3GS
4\ iPhone 4
5\ iPhone 4S
6\ iPhone 5

So shouldn't it have been the iPhone 6? I wonder if it's just because the press had already coined the 5 name so heavily.
Jayman
Posted 01:32pm 13/9/12
How different did people want it to look?

It's thiner, it's lighter, it's bumped to a 4inch screen with minimal hight increase, longer battery life, first to the market with Cortex a15 arm processor, 2x speed, 2x graphics, 44% more colour saturation, 4G.

Lets face it, there's not much Apple could have done that would have impressed the typical ausgamers crowd :).

Ok:1\ iPhone2\ iPhone 3G3\ iPhone 3GS4\ iPhone 45\ iPhone 4S6\ iPhone 5So shouldn't it have been the iPhone 6? I wonder if it's just because the press had already coined the 5 name so heavily.


I don't think that has much to do with the naming convention:
iPhone
iPhone 3G (3g enabled)
iPhone 3GS (spec bump to old model)
iPhone 4 (next model)
iPhone 4S (spec bump to old model)
iPhone 5 (next model)
kappa
Posted 01:39pm 13/9/12
It's thiner, it's lighter, it's bumped to at 4inch screen with minimal hight increase, longer battery life, first to the market with Cortex a15 arm processor, 2x speed, 2x graphics, 44% more colour saturation, 4G.

This.

I'm not sure what people were expecting? The hardware seems impressive and a solid update.

What I'm disappointed with is iOS 6.
andrewus
Posted 01:35pm 13/9/12
I wasnt overly impressed but at the same time, the upgrades seem okay?
I would love to try the new Lumia but iphone is super easy and works and has billions of apps (which i am a sucker for)
Nathan
Posted 01:37pm 13/9/12
, it's bumped to a 4inch screen with minimal hight increase,
I kind of feel like this is the worst part; the screen is not any wider; its just changed ratios from 3:2 to 16:9 . And they didnt even manage to fit it into the existing form factor, despite the massive amount of space at top and bottom of screen on the existing model.
eski
Posted 01:51pm 13/9/12
How different did people want it to look? It's thiner, it's lighter, it's bumped to a 4inch screen with minimal hight increase, longer battery life, first to the market with Cortex a15 arm processor, 2x speed, 2x graphics, 44% more colour saturation, 4G.



The Ausgamers crowd is one of the few groups who understands what those specs mean. To every other bloody person its the exact same phone and they're running around like its gods gift because a 4 is now a 5.
Khel
Posted 01:46pm 13/9/12
Just seems like a (using Jayman's words) spec bump to the old model, rather than a new model. Doesn't really add anything new from what I can tell, just a better specced Iphone 4. Well, I guess 4G could be considered a new feature, but its not a particularly interesting one. I don't follow the hardware that closely so I don't know what cool new features they could have included, but NFC springs to mind. Or a new camera like that 40 megapixel one nokia phones have. And I'm sure theres plenty of other similarly cool stuff out there that could have been implemented to make it a genuinely new model.
Dazhel
Posted 01:46pm 13/9/12
You know what else is 80% smaller and less damage-prone? Micro usb ports.

Unfortunately the reality distortion field is impervious to logic.

I guess a new connector for idevices seems ok in the long term (aside from not being micro usb), but in the short term in a house with multiple iphone/ipad devices being able to mix and match charge cables and docks was a huge plus.

It's a peeve they're selling the tiny adapter for $35+ when it'd cost 3/5ths of bugger all to make so I reckon I'll look closely at the S3 as well this time around as a replacement for the venerable 3GS.
Jayman
Posted 02:01pm 13/9/12
The Ausgamers crowd is one of the few group who understands what those specs mean. To every other bloody person its the exact same phone and they're running around like its gods gift because a 4 is now a 5.


Yet all the comments are based on looks and new connector. I also think most people can understand, x2 faster than the old one, bigger screen, better looking colours and longer battery life. Thiner and lighter are pretty easy to understand as well :)
blah
Posted 02:06pm 13/9/12
I definitely will be getting one, iphones just work with no fuss.
Raven
Posted 02:08pm 13/9/12
iOS App developers must be loving this - now they have an excuse to charge for a re-design/'major' upgrade of their software to have it support the new 16:9 aspect ratio.
Midda
Posted 02:16pm 13/9/12
I think what people are reacting to is the fact that these increments are seen in Android and Windows phones every 3-6 months. Apple release one phone every 12 months, so I dunno, I guess people expect something more substantial from 12 months of design work? And even after all that, they still didn't include NFC. Doesn't seem like something they needed to wait 12 months to release.
simul
Posted 02:25pm 13/9/12
Pretty average announcement, hardware is solid (construction-wise) but shame about the lack of NFC (they just blew the chance to get a step ahead). The biggest issue is the software, 6 year old operating system, that just gets worse each iteration. They have swapped out google maps and youtube for their s***house version of maps, and thats about it.

Microsoft dropped the f*****g ball by not having WP8 out already. They and Nokia could have made a killing on Lumia 920's right about now.

iOS App developers must be loving this - now they have an excuse to charge for a re-design/'major' upgrade of their software to have it support the new 16:9 aspect ratio.


Nope, 5 minute fix unless you are doing custom drawing (a new launch image and thats about it). The effort required to resubmit as a new app isn't worth the time/money - and Apple will probably reject it.

Nakor
Posted 02:25pm 13/9/12
The Ausgamers crowd is one of the few group who understands what those specs mean. To every other bloody person its the exact same phone and they're running around like its gods gift because a 4 is now a 5.


Yet all the comments are based on looks and new connector. I also think most people can understand, x2 faster than the old one, bigger screen, better looking colours and longer battery life. Thiner and lighter are pretty easy to understand as well :)


It's not 2x faster though, it'll run at a slightly faster speed because the screen got bigger and needs more power to run.

I think what you've helped prove though is that there is nothing revolutionary about this phone, its just an increase to what was already there.

Therefore most of the Ausgamers crowd have decided to harp on about that, as Apple are regularly referring to themselves as the innovators of tech. This phone has no innovation at all, it's just a catch up phone to keep up with the latest Android ones.

The iPhone 5 will do nothing better than an iPhone 4S, except maybe take pictures or 720p video. It will actually do things not as well as the iPhone 4s - who here really thinks massive black bars above/below my apps is a good thing; anyone remember the outrage at Widescreen movies doing that on expensive new TVs?
blah
Posted 02:40pm 13/9/12
NFC ? who currently uses its now on their phone?
Khel
Posted 02:56pm 13/9/12
NFC ? who currently uses its now on their phone?


Because it hasn't been widely adopted yet. This was an opportunity for Apple to put their money where their mouth is and actually innovate and push NFC out to the masses and actually give it some momentum, break some new ground, etc. Like someone said in a previous thread, a new iphone with NFC would suddenly taken it from a niche thing to a huge market and then the apps and the support would follow.
parabol
Posted 03:01pm 13/9/12
NFC ? who currently uses its now on their phone?

There is 0% usage of NFC on phones that don't have it ...
blah
Posted 03:13pm 13/9/12
and whos to say if the retailers are ready though.
copuis
Posted 03:16pm 13/9/12
You know what else is 80% smaller and less damage-prone? Micro usb ports.



what, and use the same connector as all the other makers have agreed to use?

also, with the new chip, is it a case of "we have a X mhz chip", but we underclocked it and we are not going to be forthright in telling people
parabol
Posted 03:36pm 13/9/12
and whos to say if the retailers are ready though.

Ready for what .. what does your sentence even mean?
copuis
Posted 03:43pm 13/9/12
and whos to say if the retailers are ready though.



dude, have you worked in a phone store before,

they would have been told that there is a new iphone coming, (tho no extra details) apple no doubt will have done some lame arse test that they will all take (I remember the iphone 4 one, it was basically making sure we all knew all the marketing hype)

as for ordering (from the stores point of view) you get what apple allocates your store (based on past sales, expected volume of sales in the first few days etc)

also if they are a cnuty as the last few times, you will ask for the 32gb version, as that is what everyone wants, and they send you like 4 32gb ones, and 20 16gb ones, and will not send the store anymore until they are all sold

so in short, yes the retailers are ready, apple will manage the flow of stock according to what will give them the greatest marketing outcome for the next few weeks/months, (because making it hard to get means that they must be popular if they all sell out so quickly) blah blah blah
TiT
Posted 03:48pm 13/9/12
well i hate Mac desktop but do love there iPhone will be buying the new one :)
I played with quite a few android phones at work and still go back to the iphone. I have played with windows 8 phone yet though...
kappa
Posted 03:49pm 13/9/12
I think he's talking about retailers taking nfc payments ...
jmr
Posted 03:52pm 13/9/12
This adapter lets you connect devices with a Lightning connector to many of your 30-pin accessories.* Video and iPod Out not supported.


If this doesn't work with bosey there is going to be f*****g murders
copuis
Posted 03:53pm 13/9/12
I think he's talking about retailers taking nfc payments ...


well in that case, what the hell does he think pay wave is?

(in short the retailers are, the banks are the one sorting out the safety and methods, but pretty sure CBA has something now)
blah
Posted 03:54pm 13/9/12
I think he's talking about retailers taking nfc payments ...



yes sorry i was talking about retailers taking nfc payments.
blah
Posted 03:56pm 13/9/12
well in that case, what the hell does he think pay wave is?(in short the retailers are, the banks are the one sorting out the safety and methods, but pretty sure CBA has something now)


i've only even seen them in 7eleven stores.
Midda
Posted 03:59pm 13/9/12
PayWave is f*****g everywhere. You mustn't be looking very closely.
copuis
Posted 03:59pm 13/9/12
really, we have them at the news agency, i've also seen them at macca's, big w, coles, and the bottleshop, and there are a heap of combined machines, (all in one type) so you most likely have seen them, just not noticed them
blah
Posted 04:05pm 13/9/12
probably... i'll look for them next time i'm out.
skythra
Posted 04:11pm 13/9/12
PayWave is f*****g everywhere. You mustn't be looking very closely.
This. People seem to be confused about this.

One thing i'm pissed about is that commbank made f*****g NFC compatibility for iphones.

THEY DON"T HAVE THAT YET.

Android? Nope.
blah
Posted 04:21pm 13/9/12
I heard android is for poor people, why would they have money to pay by nfc?
Eorl
Posted 04:25pm 13/9/12
PayWave is at my local Coles, at Woolworths now, even found one in a mobile coffee shop. It has become the essential addition to simple and easy payments under $100, and if that isn't a push to say "hey we are ready for NFC" then I don't know what is.

How do we know it is 2x everything with the new iPhone? Could be 2x the iPhone 4S, which didn't really have that good of parts against the SGS3. Putting it against the Nokia Lumia 920 you can see only the sheeple will buy it, the ones who aren't quite sure why they are buying it, just that it has an Apple logo and someone is telling them to because its "innovative".

How do we know what iOS6 is going to perform like? There are tech blogs out there claiming it is the next big gaming handheld and is great for gaming. Last time I checked smartphones were terrible for long-term gaming on a small screen with really only two inputs, touch and shake. What I want to see is why should I get an iPhone 5. What is so good about them that I should upgrade from my Lumia 900 instead of upgrading to the Lumia 920?
Mantorok
Posted 04:34pm 13/9/12
One thing i'm pissed about is that commbank made f*****g NFC compatibility for iphones.THEY DON"T HAVE THAT YET.
http://www.icarte.ca/
copuis
Posted 04:38pm 13/9/12
eorl, 2x the 4s unknown, as the real speed of the 4s is a little unknown

I know with the iphone 4, while it had a 1ghz processor that was clocked in at (best guess) 800mhz, to save on battery, I can only guess the 4S was dual cored, same trick (underclocked to save on battery) so best guess using the current trend the iPhone 5 will have a 2ghz dual core, clocked to run at 1.6ghz, which is behind the current crop of smart phones,


that been said, the processor speed doesn't really impact that much, I mean while my good old blackberry bold 9000 runs at something like 600mhz, it feels much snapper than some of the 1.2+ ghz phones, (that said it isn't running a massive screen, plus the senors that control god knows what features found on the newer phones)
Khel
Posted 04:53pm 13/9/12
Theres also many more things NFC could be used for besides Paywave, but without any sort of market saturation, theres not going to be a lot of companies who bother developing NFC related tech. Hence why it would have been awesome for it to be pushed out on the Iphone.
Jayman
Posted 05:03pm 13/9/12
eorl, 2x the 4s unknown, as the real speed of the 4s is a little unknownI know with the iphone 4, while it had a 1ghz processor that was clocked in at (best guess) 800mhz, to save on battery, I can only guess the 4S was dual cored, same trick (underclocked to save on battery) so best guess using the current trend the iPhone 5 will have a 2ghz dual core, clocked to run at 1.6ghz, which is behind the current crop of smart phones, that been said, the processor speed doesn't really impact that much, I mean while my good old blackberry bold 9000 runs at something like 600mhz, it feels much snapper than some of the 1.2+ ghz phones, (that said it isn't running a massive screen, plus the senors that control god knows what features found on the newer phones)


Beyond the processor speed, it's a new architecture. The A6 is supposed to be based on the Cortex a15. So relative clock speeds will probably go out the window. It would be like comparing a Core2Duo to a i5.

http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a15.php

Still I imagine reviews are only a few days away where we'll find out a lot more.

I am disappointed there's no NFC :(.
blah
Posted 05:05pm 13/9/12
Theres also many more things NFC could be used for besides Paywave, but without any sort of market saturation, theres not going to be a lot of companies who bother developing NFC related tech. Hence why it would have been awesome for it to be pushed out on the Iphone.


why can't it be samsung that pushes this new tech?
parabol
Posted 05:07pm 13/9/12
why can't it be samsung that pushes this new tech?

They already are and have been:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFC-enabled_handsets

Troll fail.
Khel
Posted 05:09pm 13/9/12
why can't it be samsung that pushes this new tech?


It could be, but realistically, as much as I'm not really a fan of Apple or the Iphone, they're much better poised to launch something and create an instant overnight market for stuff people didn't even know they wanted previously. I mean Android has huge market saturation sure, but its spread of lots of different phones, by lots of different manufacturers, and even a single manufacturer like Samsung doesn't have one unified platform.

Stick it in an iphone and you suddenly have millions of people, with the same piece of hardware, all wanting to do cool things with their NFC chip. Wouldn't be long before we saw a surge of cool apps and tech to go along with it. They're perfectly poised to push innovations like that, but unfortunately they chose to just do the bare minimum and sell more Iphones instead of actually pushing things forward.
copuis
Posted 05:11pm 13/9/12
as far as i'm aware, sony are the only one sort of doing anything useful with NFC, with those programmable tags
blah
Posted 05:39pm 13/9/12
It could be, but realistically, as much as I'm not really a fan of Apple or the Iphone, they're much better poised to launch something and create an instant overnight market for stuff people didn't even know they wanted previously. I mean Android has huge market saturation sure, but its spread of lots of different phones, by lots of different manufacturers, and even a single manufacturer like Samsung doesn't have one unified platform.Stick it in an iphone and you suddenly have millions of people, with the same piece of hardware, all wanting to do cool things with their NFC chip. Wouldn't be long before we saw a surge of cool apps and tech to go along with it. They're perfectly poised to push innovations like that, but unfortunately they chose to just do the bare minimum and sell more Iphones instead of actually pushing things forward.


neither you or me would know what effects of having NFC in the iphone5 would do to the battery or dimensions of the phone.

there are reasons why they don't push out new tech without degrading user experience. Anyways only an apple engineer could answer this.
blah
Posted 05:40pm 13/9/12
They already are and have been:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFC-enabled_handsets

Troll fail.


you are reading my reply in the wrong context.
copuis
Posted 05:41pm 13/9/12
neither you or me would know what effects of having NFC in the iphone5 would do to the battery or dimensions of the phone.there are reasons why they don't push out new tech without degrading user experience. Anyways only an apple engineer could answer this.



apple engineer??, i know they have software people, and marketers, but engineers?
Midda
Posted 05:44pm 13/9/12
neither you or me would know what effects of having NFC in the iphone5 would do to the battery or dimensions of the phone.

Yeah, because NFC totally uncharted territory, with no other phones on the market to draw this kind of information from.
parabol
Posted 05:44pm 13/9/12
you are reading my reply in the wrong context.

I don't think your posts have any context other than trying to cause a reaction.

The "android is for poor people" post was a bit too obvious don't you think?
blah
Posted 05:49pm 13/9/12
apple engineer??, i know they have software people, and marketers, but engineers?


haha funny.
blah
Posted 05:50pm 13/9/12
I don't think your posts have any context other than trying to cause a reaction.

The "android is for poor people" post was a bit too obvious don't you think?


i was trying to be funny like copuis :P
copuis
Posted 05:58pm 13/9/12
neither you or me would know what effects of having NFC in the iphone5 would do to the battery or dimensions of the phone.there are reasons why they don't push out new tech without degrading user experience. Anyways only an apple engineer could answer this.



well apple isn't know for pushing new hardware, it has been known (and proven) to be about a year behind at best when it comes to new hardware, sony xperia s currently has NFC, it works well, also, there are a number of 4G handsets, they work well too

you can expect that NFC will be in an apple iphone, and marketed heavily as a new hardware leader in the next 12 - 24 months
Whoop
Posted 05:57pm 13/9/12
NFC can go die. Insecure rubbish.
copuis
Posted 05:59pm 13/9/12
NFC can go die. Insecure rubbish.



just like RFID tech hey whoop?
Tele
Posted 05:59pm 13/9/12
Dam what a heap of crap for an upgrade. wow a nice new little bit bigger screen, looks like after 5 yrs using an iphone i will be on my way to android, looking at Galaxy Note 2 hopefully it wont take to long to be released in Aus.
natslovR
Posted 06:01pm 13/9/12
It's about quality devices and user experience. I'm still scarred by my experiences with pre-iOS smartphones to jump on to another one, I fear I'll regret it the moment I switch over.

I won't be getting a 5 for now, my 4 works fine.
paveway
Posted 06:08pm 13/9/12
paywave/paypass is the f*****g s***

iphones are for f*****s
copuis
Posted 06:20pm 13/9/12
iphones are for f*****s



oh pave, there is little we agree on, but this is one thing you are so right on
Jayman
Posted 06:22pm 13/9/12
well apple isn't know for pushing new hardware, it has been known (and proven) to be about a year behind at best when it comes to new hardware


What? Please share this proof of year+ old Apple Tech. MacPro maybe? What are you talking about?
Infidel
Posted 06:27pm 13/9/12
I would never pay for an iphone or any expensive ass phone, thank god wherever I work are silly enough to give us one
jmr
Posted 06:27pm 13/9/12
Who gives a s*** if NFC is insecure?

It is convenient?
copuis
Posted 06:39pm 13/9/12
What? Please share this proof of year+ old Apple Tech. MacPro maybe? What are you talking about?



look at any iphone, and name one bit of hardware that wasn't already out for 12 months?, (design doesn't count)

first iphone, only 2g, when 3g handsets were becoming the norm
touch screen, over 5 years use in mobile devices, like phones
blue tooth, er again no,
wifi, nope,
er, um, er, maybe the 30 pin connector, I would have given it that had there not been the ipod before it
hell even the processor speeds are pretty blah (for all the hype), and often when the cpu has been hyped, it was underclocked (thus putting it further behind the pack)

put simply, for cheaper you can get a more hardware feature packed phone for cheaper,

so, again when it comes to HARDWARE, apple (in iphones) are at least a year behind, they will no doubt come into the market when the hardware has matured, and use it (and market it) like it is something new, but unless you can name one little be of hardware that was found first in an iphone, i will remain using better tech
jmr
Posted 06:52pm 13/9/12
Rightio sonny - are you just crunching heavy mathematical computations on your phone all day? Or using it for basic s*** and hoping the battery will last?

You're assuming just because tech has been released it should be immediately implemented into the design, and not taking into consideration the time required to facilitate such a tidy package.

I think the reason they've been so successful is because they've realised a compromise between raw power, and software efficiency that works.

Are you running dual socket 6 core's in all your computers?
Jayman
Posted 07:00pm 13/9/12
so, again when it comes to HARDWARE, apple (in iphones) are at least a year behind, they will no doubt come into the market when the hardware has matured, and use it (and market it) like it is something new, but unless you can name one little be of hardware that was found first in an iphone, i will remain using better tech


All of the iPhone releases have been competitive with the competition spec wise on release or better. Name a phone that was better than an iPhone released a year later. Seriously...

You list a whole bunch of technologies that already existed, and apple used... What the hell does that have to do with bringing out 1year + outdated hardware like you say? You're talking absolute rubbish.
parabol
Posted 07:12pm 13/9/12



paveway
Posted 07:14pm 13/9/12
nah they like to keep simple features off their phones, so they can include them 1 by 1 in an iteration and claim it is the most ground breaking s*** ever

the best one was video calling, f*** that was a laugh
Blizzard
Posted 08:04pm 13/9/12
They seem to be quite far ahead with their Multi-Touch IPS touchscreen tech. I can't beleive how thin the screen is (Yes, I know there are thinner phones). AFAIK its the first Multi-Touch IPS in a mobile phone. Weren't they the first to have multi-touch gestures? And what about inclusion of a gyroscope, accelorometer, proximity sensor and ambient light sensors in a phone?

ARM say that the Cortex-A15 is 40% faster than the Cortex-A9 (used in the SGS3) when clocked the same, using the same amount of cores. That doesn't sound all that blah to me. It appears to be underclocked to 1Ghz from 2.4Ghz, I assume thats for thermal reasons.

I have seen some reports that claim that lightning is USB3 ready. At the very least Apple claim it is faster than the 30pin connector. It is rather annoying that the new connector can't do analog pass through anymore :( .

The 30 pin connector was better than Mini / Micro USB because it also did analog and digital audio / video pass through. The 30 pin connector could also charge the phone while doing all of this, Mini / Micro USB can not. To counter this they came up with MHL which is a USB and mini HDMI replacement that is now used in many Android phones and uses the mini USB connector. The problem is that (in the implementations that I have seen anyway) they can only charge or output, not both.

Speaking of MHL, next to nobody complained when Samsung broke that standard in the SGS3 and rendered all their peripheral devices into paperweights, but Apple does it and all of a sudden they have done the worst thing imaginable!

As for NFC, you all really want this in your phones? http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/android-nokia-smartphone-hack/
Eorl
Posted 08:10pm 13/9/12
All of the iPhone releases have been competitive with the competition spec wise on release or better. Name a phone that was better than an iPhone released a year later. Seriously... You list a whole bunch of technologies that already existed, and apple used... What the hell does that have to do with bringing out 1year + outdated hardware like you say? You're talking absolute rubbish.
iPhone 4/4S compared to the Samsung Galaxy S3. Or the Nexus, or the Lumia 900. There is quite a lot of phones that are out now that will rival the iPhone 5 on release, and have been out for longer. They claim they are innovative, but I don't think they have been innovative since the first iPhone was released.

Apple and the iPhone are so well received because they have a legion of people so willing to snap up the next iPhone no matter what, despite a general consensus that they aren't the best phone in the market anymore (spec wise). The iPhone does do well, in its iOS because it is simple to use, will give you what you want and has a huge amount of apps. But on average only 1 out of 10 apps that are on the iOS can not be found on Android, as the Android OS is steadily growing, and is becoming more mainstream now and more streamlined version are being released.

What annoys me the most about the iPhone and Apple, is that they have cultured a following that believes anything with the Apple symbol is God's gift to humans, and that any such competitive nature is a sin and should not be allowed. Just like how there needs to be new MMO's to compete with WoW in order to get Blizzard innovating and trying new things, the same can be said for the iPhone.
natslovR
Posted 08:32pm 13/9/12
The iPod was similarly feature retarded compared to the modern competition. It was still the one to beat in the portable MP3 player market.

Prior to the iPod portable mp3 players were clunky frustrating pieces of machinery that you wanted to love because they were portable mp3 players, but there was just something lacking.

After the iPod, everyone changed to be like them but with more features, your average user can do without because they are not part of the core experience.

And that's the place the iPhone has taken. Smartphones were clunky frustrating pieces of machinery that you wanted to love, but there was just something lacking. Now every iPhone competitor has more features, but your average user can do without them because the overall experience is far better.

It's the same story with tablets.

I won't be upgrading my 4 to a 5 unless I can get one from the US very cheaply. I won't move off my 4 to an Android or Windows phone in the near future because I fear that the moment I do I'll regret it.

also

184057_10151001716640876_1667272391_n%5B
kos
Posted 08:47pm 13/9/12
They seem to be quite far ahead with their Multi-Touch IPS touchscreen tech. I can't beleive how thin the screen is (Yes, I know there are thinner phones). AFAIK its the first Multi-Touch IPS in a mobile phone.
So? It's not like it's some ground breaking new technology, it's just two old technologies built into one.

Weren't they the first to have multi-touch gestures? And what about inclusion of a gyroscope, accelorometer, proximity sensor and ambient light sensors in a phone?
Multi-touch, gyroscope yes, proximity sensor probably, accelerometers and ambient light sensors were in phones well before the iPhone.

The problem is that (in the implementations that I have seen anyway) they can only charge or output, not both.
Rubbish, with MHL enabled TVs the phone will charge straight from the TV, otherwise it can be charged with an external cable.

As for NFC, you all really want this in your phones? http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/android-nokia-smartphone-hack/
Oh wow, there have NEVER been security flaws in important technology standards before! We should definitely stop using this altogether! Alternatively the technology world could just do what it has always done and fix the flaws and move forward.

The hacks described there are only taking advantage of security holes in apps or the operating system, the same kinds of security holes that are often found on Apple products, and is not inherent to NFC itself. It's like saying the internet is bad because hackers can use it to get into your computer. To give this as a reason not to have NFC is just wrong, nice scare tactics though!
kos
Posted 09:04pm 13/9/12
And that's the place the iPhone has taken. Smartphones were clunky frustrating pieces of machinery that you wanted to love, but there was just something lacking. Now every iPhone competitor has more features, but your average user can do without them because the overall experience is far better.
This is my biggest problem with Apple and its fans. They seem to believe that if Apple didn't do it then it never would have happened.

The technology world improved and advanced just fine without Apple, sure Apple helped usability a lot by coming along and focusing much more on it, and sure they released a phone that was a little ahead of its time, but it's not like that's where phones weren't already heading, I mean look at the LG Prada that was announced and released before the iPhone.

I always remember some speech Steve Jobs gave about some stories of his life and about how he went to a calligraphy class and that's why they had proportional fonts instead of monospaced in Mac OS. And then he basically implies that if they didn't do that, then even now some 30 years later no computer would have anything but monospaced fonts.

Cause yeah, I'm sure NO ONE would have thought of using that thing (that typesetters have used for hundreds of years) on graphical computers if old Jobsey hadn't thought of it!
That pretty much sums up Apple's attitude to me.
Jayman
Posted 09:08pm 13/9/12
So after disregarding all the stuff Apple did bring to the table, what have other phone manufactures introduced?

And everyone making fun of Apple making aspect ratio change and making it a tiny bit taller, and extrapolating devices getting taller and taller... Android trends over the past few years. 4" screen....4.3" screen!!!... 4.5" screen!@$!! 4.8"screen!#%!%#@!@ omfg, 5.5 INCH SCREEN!!!!
Whoop
Posted 09:15pm 13/9/12
^^ apple fanboy spotted
kos
Posted 09:47pm 13/9/12
So after disregarding all the stuff Apple did bring to the table, what have other phone manufactures introduced?
You're so right. I'm so glad that Apple invented the phone, or else how would be communicate with people over long distances?

Android trends over the past few years. 4" screen....4.3" screen!!!... 4.5" screen!@$!! 4.8"screen!#%!%#@!@ omfg, 5.5 INCH SCREEN!!!!
Sounds to me like an infinitely better trend than 3.5" screen...3.5" screen...3.5" screen...3.5" screen...3.5" screen...4" screen!
Regardless, that's the beauty of not buying Apple, you actually have hardware choice, so you don't have to buy a phone that size if you don't want, but can if you do (a concept that is probably foreign to you).
Khel
Posted 09:38pm 13/9/12
So after disregarding all the stuff Apple did bring to the table, what have other phone manufactures introduced?


Open platforms? NFC? Standardised interfaces so I can plug my phone into any usb cable anywhere and charge it? The ability to plug my phone into my computer and copy stuff on and off it and have it treated as a portable hard drive without going via itunes? Wireless charging? Tethering?

I dunno, thats a few I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure a bit of research and a bit of googling can find a whole range of advances in smartphones that Apple are not responsible for.
kos
Posted 09:57pm 13/9/12
Rubbish Khel, Apple is totally responsible for all of those advancements as well, just not yet.
Wrecktim
Posted 10:04pm 13/9/12
my contract is up in October, i probably will upgrade my 4. i'd go android but the ones i've seen all seem plasticy and all my music is in itunes now so i cbf. i don't play games on my phone. maybe next time i'm at the shops i'll have a look at all the phones.
Mantorok
Posted 10:24pm 13/9/12
Saw this over on b3ta:
chgF0.jpg
Whoop
Posted 10:36pm 13/9/12
my contract is up in October, i probably will upgrade my 4. i'd go android but the ones i've seen all seem plasticy and all my music is in itunes now so i cbf. i don't play games on my phone. maybe next time i'm at the shops i'll have a look at all the phones.

highlight all songs in itunes, drag songs onto the phone, enjoy.
Blizzard
Posted 10:51pm 13/9/12
"So? It's not like it's some ground breaking new technology, it's just two old technologies built into one."

You should probably go find out what Innovation actually means.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation

Innovate does not mean invent. So, how isn't it innovative to take 2 existing technologies and use them in a different way?

"Rubbish, with MHL enabled TVs the phone will charge straight from the TV, otherwise it can be charged with an external cable."

I haven't seen that actually work except with the SGS3 which has a MHL connector that isn't compatable with any preexisting MHL devices.

"Oh wow, there have NEVER been security flaws in important technology standards before! We should definitely stop using this altogether! Alternatively the technology world could just do what it has always done and fix the flaws and move forward."

If you read the article, NFC allowed the access to occur, and was demonstrated on 2 different operating systems. It is also explained as an NFC flaw that allows exploitation of flaws within the operating system. But we should blame the apps? Sure, also the operating system and the user, but that doesn't change the fact that NFC, as the access point shouldn't be allowing unauthorised entry in the first place. To use your internet analogy, my router has an intrusion dection system and a firewall in it, why shouldn't NFC?

If you consider that:

* Android in particular has considerable malware and botnet problems, and infact has been actually distributing the malware themselves because of lax marketplace rules for a long time (Bouncer has helped but it isn't perfect);
* The iPhone can be jailbroken rather quickly after a release and highlights the fact that iOS too has flaws;
* Windows phone has shown to be relatively secure so far but it is, well, Windows and vulnerabilities have been reported in the last year.

So with all of the security problems that are currently in the mobile environment and you still want me to chuck access to my bank accounts into this mess? Well I will continue:

Juniper networks, in their 2011 mobile threat report details a 3,500% increase in Android malware detections alone compared to 2010, accounting for 46.7% of unique detections of mobile malware across all mobile operating systems, with Java not far behind at 41% of unique detections. In 2011 there were 28,472 unique detections across all platforms. There were no malware detections on iOS (Which should not be taken to mean that it is 100% safe).

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/additional-resources/jnpr-2011-mobile-threats-report.pdf

The fact is, the flaws have not been fixed, and continue to get worse, particularly where Java and Android are concerned. NFC doesn't help this by being inherintly insecure enough that it allows the OS to be exploited. As I previously touched upon, with the internet, I can put up firewalls, antivirus, anti-malware, honeypots or any number of more advanced security measures to stop intruders. With NFC, how do I defend against someone with a card reader bumping into me and charging my accounts, or picking up in-progress transactions via radio frequency? Don't beleive me about the radio frequency thing? Heres a patent to do exactly that, then mask the transaction and replace it with preset code. It is a little vague, but if nothing else it should be good evidence that people are looking to these kinds of vulnerabilies (and even patenting them!).

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120214409

Or how about when we go to make a payment? We already know that card payment systems are compromised in stores, so it is easy for a card reader to get in range of a phone ready to make a NFC payment.

I'm not saying we shouldn't use NFC, I am saying the environment that NFC operates in is getting worse every year. Start putting banking details on phones and you make an already vulnerable target an attractive and lucrative one. As it stands, I think mobile security needs some serious work before it should be used with the banking transactions, which are the main driver behind the technology.

In my opinion, if it is going to happen now, it should at least start out like it did in Japan as a completely closed system.
fpot
Posted 10:58pm 13/9/12
How come it isn't as simple as encrypting any data that you wouldn't want people snooping?
TicMan
Posted 11:06pm 13/9/12
Making payment with NFC is only the tip of the ice berg. There's so much more it can and will do that swiping your phone (NOT AN iPHONE HAHAHAHAHHA) against an EFTPOS reader at 7-11 will seem basic.
Blizzard
Posted 11:10pm 13/9/12
Because if you are really determined to get to the data (and who wouldn't want someone elses credit card to splurge with), once you have the data to do with as you like, breaking the encryption is usually just a matter of time.

For example, a physical credit card uses very high levels of encryption, but it doesn't stop card skimmers from copying the data and getting the card data off them later.
Rdizz
Posted 11:24pm 13/9/12
where did the iphone come from you ask?
this came out in 2003 or 2004 and the original iphone came out in 2007.
link

f*** off fanboys apple pretty much stole everything from this phone right here. the only new thing they had was the gesture screen and removed the keyboard.

last edited by Rdizz at 23:24:35 13/Sep/12
fpot
Posted 11:23pm 13/9/12
For example, a physical credit card uses very high levels of encryption, but it doesn't stop card skimmers from copying the data and getting the card data off them later.
I couldn't really suss it out but according to this link only the PIN number, country code, currency units and amount authorized (which I assume is credit limit() are encrypted. All you need to perform a credit card transaction is the credit card number, expiry date, name of cardholder and the security number on the back. All of these things can be seen just by looking at the card. I don't think those things are encrypted on the strip.

And I am no expert on this, but from what I have read with AES encryption and a good password you haven't a chance in hell of decrypting the data without the key.
kos
Posted 12:27am 14/9/12
"So? It's not like it's some ground breaking new technology, it's just two old technologies built into one."

You should probably go find out what Innovation actually means.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation

Innovate does not mean invent. So, how isn't it innovative to take 2 existing technologies and use them in a different way?
Did you just copy and paste this response from somewhere else or something? What part of replying to someone who hasn't actually used the word innovation (and did not say that something wasn't innovative) by telling them that they need to check the meaning of innovation seemed like an intelligent idea at the time? I said it wasn't ground breaking new technology, and I stand by that. Also, the two technologies aren't being used in a different way, they're just incorporated into the same component.

I haven't seen that actually work except with the SGS3 which has a MHL connector that isn't compatable with any preexisting MHL devices.
How many devices have you seen and tested that should do that but don't? I've seen a few different devices that DO do that. And it is part of the standard. Regardless of that, it doesn't matter how much you try to talk down a standard that Apple could have adopted, we all know that they only didn't adopt it so they could grossly overcharge on proprietary accessories.

(stuff about NFC payments and security)
As stated by TicMan, NFC is much more than just about mobile payments. You could easily make a device with NFC capabilities without having any support for mobile payments if you really thought it was a gaping security hole in and of itself. Of course the technology is not completely mature, but the more that get on it the more it will be considered and improved and the sooner we can start doing cool s*** with it.

And as has also been stated, it's not like cards are particularly secure themselves, if there are ways for NFC payment terminals to be compromised and used to steal payment information, how is that any worse than credit cards and skimming as it is today? It's not like NFC is much different to swiping a card, you have to do it intentionally.

None of what you've said warrants your original overly-dramatic question of "As for NFC, you all really want this in your phones?"
fpot
Posted 12:06am 14/9/12
I can't tell if Rdizz's post is a joke or not.
Rdizz
Posted 12:10am 14/9/12
depends on how much you like apple, but from here looks like you are on the fence.
fpot
Posted 12:22am 14/9/12


Apart from the volume controls being on the side nothing is the same. The iphone doesn't even have a side button unless you count the switch that puts it on silent.

edit: I GISed it. Is this more what you were after? I think I get it now :P

Rdizz
Posted 12:34am 14/9/12
yeah somewhat.. the layout and hardware just proves how far behind apple really were
Blizzard
Posted 01:18am 14/9/12
"Did you just copy and paste this response from somewhere else or something? What part of replying to someone who hasn't actually used the word innovation (and did not say that something wasn't innovative) by telling them that they need to check the meaning of innovation seemed like an intelligent idea at the time?"

You were replying to a comment I made initially that replying to someone about innovation. Thus, the conversation appeared to me to be regarding innovation. No I did not copy and paste anything except the URL.

"Regardless of that, it doesn't matter how much you try to talk down a standard that Apple could have adopted, we all know that they only didn't adopt it so they could grossly overcharge on proprietary accessories."

That would be relevant if it was actually a standard. As of right now, it is just a proposed standard. Why would Apple back something that may not even get adopted? Also, the current MHL proposal spec does not support USB 3.0, and some reports that seem to have popped up since the keynote are saying that Lightning either does, or is capable of supporting it. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

"As stated by TicMan, NFC is much more than just about mobile payments. You could easily make a device with NFC capabilities without having any support for mobile payments if you really thought it was a gaping security hole in and of itself. Of course the technology is not completely mature, but the more that get on it the more it will be considered and improved and the sooner we can start doing cool s*** with it."

Yes, it has other capabilities and thats fine. NFC ticketing looks like a great idea, for one. My comments are based on the fact that the banking industry is the only one actually pushing it to the market place in Australia (i.e paywave) and many of the comments in this thread have been about NFC payments. Which is why I concluded my post by saying:

"I'm not saying we shouldn't use NFC, I am saying the environment that NFC operates in is getting worse every year. Start putting banking details on phones and you make an already vulnerable target an attractive and lucrative one. As it stands, I think mobile security needs some serious work before it should be used with the banking transactions, which are the main driver behind the technology."

However, it has already been shown to allow your phone to have malicious code executed on your phone wirelessly through NFC, so personal data instead banking might not be the lucrative pull to NFC. All it takes is another peice of malware and your phone is now part of a botnet. Hello huge data bill! Or it could copy your contacts, sms, photos, email, anything else it could access and send it all to whoever hit you without you ever knowing it. They would need to tighten up security on both NFC and the operating system for me to ever consider it as a viable technology.

"As has also been stated, it's not like cards are particularly secure themselves, if there are ways for NFC payment terminals to be compromised and used to steal payment information, how is that any worse than credit cards and skimming as it is today? It's not like NFC is much different to swiping a card, you have to do it intentionally."

It's worse than skimming is today because it could potentially happen anywhere at any time, not just when you have your card out, but someone could bump you in the street or intercept a payment as it happens, and probably other ways that haven't been thought of yet. It doesn't have to be intentional at all, just look at the arstechnica article I posted earlier. There are huge security holes there that really need to be plugged.

I think what I have said warrants what I asked, you might not care about cash being stolen, or your data ripped off (You will when it happens to you). You may not think it is a big problem ($359 million reported card related fraud last year according to the APCA). Maybe there is some cool feature that is so awesome that it completely blows all of that out of the stadium. Or maybe the phone isn't the best place for NFC, or maybe there are some developers that need to devote more time to plugging security holes, because its getting pretty obvious that Google in particular (by the numbers in the Juniper Networks Mobile Threats report I linked earlier) really don't care about your security.

"None of what you've said warrants your" original overly-dramatic question of "As for NFC, you all really want this in your phones?""

I disagree, I think it was a fair question, and the tone reflected how I felt when I asked it (and still feel about it).

The thing is, I actually do think it is a cool technology with with some interesting uses... Just not in it's current format, it really needs beefed up security.
dais
Posted 01:29am 14/9/12
<quote>quoted text</quote>
Python
Posted 01:55am 14/9/12
kos
Posted 08:26am 14/9/12
Holy wall of text Batman :(

You were replying to a comment I made initially that replying to someone about innovation. Thus, the conversation appeared to me to be regarding innovation. No I did not copy and paste anything except the URL.
The only post I can guess that you were replying to is the post before yours, he didn't mention 'innovation' either...

That would be relevant if it was actually a standard. As of right now, it is just a proposed standard. Why would Apple back something that may not even get adopted?
Forget about MHL for a second, Apple could have easily used the micro USB connector, included legacy support for basic USB 2.0 and still done additional things with it if they really wanted. As you said the S3 broke from the MHL standard (and Samsung are also a*******s for doing that for no reason), but people can still use old docks, they can still use any charger from almost any phone and they can use any generic micro USB cable. But of course Apple doesn't want this, they want to be able to charge $30-50 for an adaptor or more for a new charger or cable.

It's clear that, just like the old proprietary connector, this new connector will be used for a good few years to come in Apple products, ensuring that consumers won't be able to interchange cables, chargers and docks and will have to buy over-priced but functionally similar peripherals for a long time to come.

It's worse than skimming is today because it could potentially happen anywhere at any time, not just when you have your card out, but someone could bump you in the street or intercept a payment as it happens, and probably other ways that haven't been thought of yet. It doesn't have to be intentional at all, just look at the arstechnica article I posted earlier.
Bumping into someone to steal their credit card (info), sounds familiar doesn't it? Pick-pocketing? It still doesn't seem any more vulnerable to me, not to mention the fact that there's no need to have the NFC on until you're about to use it which would negate that completely.

Also, brilliant video Python! Apple Reality Distortion Field at work right there.
copuis
Posted 03:56am 14/9/12
So after disregarding all the stuff Apple did bring to the table, what have other phone manufactures introduced?And everyone making fun of Apple making aspect ratio change and making it a tiny bit taller, and extrapolating devices getting taller and taller... Android trends over the past few years. 4" screen....4.3" screen!!!... 4.5" screen!@$!! 4.8"screen!#%!%#@!@ omfg, 5.5 INCH SCREEN!!!!



what stuff has apple bought to the table, yes they have some good software, they always have done simple effective software, going all the way back to first macs. but when woz left, the hardware passion, drive and knowledge left.

also, with the new iOS will this now make all the 3g/s useless, (maybe that is the reason for the ratio change, gives them a point at which to cut of software support, great from a marketing, business turnover point, not great for the poor person who had to get an iphone, but really had to scrimp and save for it)
Blizzard
Posted 11:11am 14/9/12
Hopefully this quote thing works, thanks dias.

Forget about MHL for a second, Apple could have easily used the micro USB connector, included legacy support for basic USB 2.0 and still done additional things with it if they really wanted. As you said the S3 broke from the MHL standard (and Samsung are also a*******s for doing that for no reason), but people can still use old docks, they can still use any charger from almost any phone and they can use any generic micro USB cable. But of course Apple doesn't want this, they want to be able to charge $30-50 for an adaptor or more for a new charger or cable.


I have already addressed why microUSB is the wrong way to go. Why would Apple completely remove functionality to adopt microUSB when:

* microUSB does not support analog or digital audio / video pass through which for many is a key part of the Apple user experience (which is why I brought up MHL) ...well untill this new connector when the bastards removed analog pass though... /sigh

* microUSB will be obselete in the next few years when USB3.0 becomes more mainstream. The last connector lasted 10 years, why wouldn't they design the new connector to last that long as well?

I dare say Apple will bow to consumer pressure at some point and give out a free adaptor, like they did with bumpers on the iPhone 4.

Bumping into someone to steal their credit card (info), sounds familiar doesn't it? Pick-pocketing? It still doesn't seem any more vulnerable to me, not to mention the fact that there's no need to have the NFC on until you're about to use it which would negate that completely.


At least with pickpocketing you know it has been stolen when you go to use it, you can then report it potentially before anything bad happens, get the card cancelled and replaced.

If the theives instead clone your NFC credentials and take out small transactions every day or every few days that not everyone will notice, you have just become income for what could be the rest of your life. How many people take the time to actually sit down and go through their statements line by line each month to catch this kind of thing?

The current implementation of software that uses NFC is either always on or always off, and again I point you to the ArsTechnica article I linked earlier. Android had NFC as always on by default, Nokia had it as always off by default, you have the option to change it but there is currently no middle ground.
parabol
Posted 11:33am 14/9/12
I dare say Apple will bow to consumer pressure at some point and give out a free adaptor, like they did with bumpers on the iPhone 4.

Consumer pressure? You make it sound like they did people favours with the bumpers, rather than addressing an obvious design flaw.
Khel
Posted 11:42am 14/9/12
I dunno about other implementations, but with the commbank thing on my phone, I have to actually log into the app with my netbank username and password before I can do anything, its not constantly broadcasting and making available my bank and cc information. You'd have to be a real idiot to set it up like that (if its even possible).

Its like when Bluetooth came out and people had it unsecured and switched on all the time and were getting hacked/hijacked via bluetooth. Implementations will get better, consumers will become more educated, problems will be overcome.
Blizzard
Posted 12:55pm 14/9/12
Consumer pressure? You make it sound like they did people favours with the bumpers, rather than addressing an obvious design flaw.


They did with the 4S, and its not like other phones at the time didn't have the same problem. I had the same issue with a blackberry, a nokia and a HTC that I had around the same time.

I dunno about other implementations, but with the commbank thing on my phone, I have to actually log into the app with my netbank username and password before I can do anything, its not constantly broadcasting and making available my bank and cc information. You'd have to be a real idiot to set it up like that (if its even possible).


When NFC is turned on you can break into the phone through the protocol and execute commands remotely, including opening apps which could run keyloggers or other such things and report that information back through your email app, sms app, or through internet traffic.

It is even built into the standard where you can have your phone do different things remotely via tags that do different things.

But anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into an anti-NFC thread. I just wanted to understand why you would want it in the iPhone given all the issues with it that I have covered.
Khel
Posted 01:09pm 14/9/12
Then don't install keyloggers on your phone and you'll be fine
TiT
Posted 01:10pm 14/9/12
I no fanboi but i played with a few android devices and samsung phones at work and still prefer the iphone then them. whats so good about them? i found the battery life far worst then iphone and the apps crashed more then any of iphone apps do???
kos
Posted 08:19pm 14/9/12
I have already addressed why microUSB is the wrong way to go. Why would Apple completely remove functionality to adopt microUSB when:

* microUSB does not support analog or digital audio / video pass through which for many is a key part of the Apple user experience (which is why I brought up MHL) ...well untill this new connector when the bastards removed analog pass though... /sigh
You said it all really, why would Apple not adopt micro-USB to avoid removing functionality and then create a proprietary port without that functionality?

* microUSB will be obselete in the next few years when USB3.0 becomes more mainstream. The last connector lasted 10 years, why wouldn't they design the new connector to last that long as well?
That's the great thing about micro-USB 3.0 ports, they're still as backwards-compatible with micro-USB 2.0 as they can be. In the next year or two when devices come out with microUSB 3.0 ports I'll still be able to use my micro-USB 2.0 chargers, cables and docks. Sure it won't be as fast as using 3.0 but I won't have to buy all new peripherals or converters.

Apple had no reason to shun micro-USB besides wanting to make more money (and possibly just wanting to be different to the rest so the Apple religious zealots still feel special and can justify the prices they pay for over-priced Apple brand peripherals).

If the theives instead clone your NFC credentials and take out small transactions every day or every few days that not everyone will notice, you have just become income for what could be the rest of your life. How many people take the time to actually sit down and go through their statements line by line each month to catch this kind of thing?
There is no reason this can't be just as easily covered as credit card fraud. If they see two transactions in impossibly different locations then alarm bells would ring immediately.

As you said it would only be small payments anyway, I'm pretty sure NFC payments are limited in the same way that contactless bank/credit cards work in that they are limited to small payments. And just like with credit cards, you'd be crazy to have no fraud protection insurance.

Essentially, nothing you have said shows me that NFC payments are any more vulnerable to fraud than the things we have been living with for years, like wallets, credit cards, contactless cards and electronic payments/over the internet.
parabol
Posted 07:12pm 14/9/12
I just wanted to understand why you would want it in the iPhone given all the issues with it that I have covered.

Yep, sounds like typical Apple apologist talk.

If an iPhone doesn't have a feature, then that feature must be crap.
kos
Posted 07:30pm 14/9/12
Yep, sounds like typical Apple apologist talk.

If an iPhone doesn't have a feature, then that feature must be crap.

I just don't understand why you would ever want a bigger screen on your smartphone, 3.5" is the perfect size!
HeardY
Posted 08:42pm 14/9/12
haha python that was great
copuis
Posted 08:50pm 14/9/12
I like those going on about NFC not being secure and apple would use an non secure thing

not like siri being left on enabling you do access all sorts of functions on the phone
Damo
Posted 10:39pm 14/9/12
just pre-orded 64gb black. :)
kos
Posted 01:07am 15/9/12
Murderer
Posted 05:32pm 16/9/12
Funny that samsung are making the processor.
FraktuRe
Posted 05:35pm 16/9/12
There are different Samsung companies, that are not related to each other in anyway except name.
mooby
Posted 07:41pm 16/9/12
look, malibu stacey has a new hat!
TiT
Posted 10:10am 17/9/12
kappa
Posted 10:25am 17/9/12
1ghz dual-core beats 1.4ghz quad-core ...
Jayman
Posted 02:49pm 17/9/12
New architecture > Frequency / Core bumps. It's also not a Cortex A15 as thought but a custom apple chip.

The A6 is the first Apple SoC to use its own ARMv7 based processor design. The CPU core(s) aren't based on a vanilla A9 or A15 design from ARM IP, but instead are something of Apple's own creation.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6292/iphone-5-a6-not-a15-custom-core
Nathan
Posted 03:01pm 17/9/12
Looks like the iphone is fastest phone on the market
False - http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?q=galaxy+s+III
Nakor
Posted 03:25pm 17/9/12
theres even probably half the one x benchmarks that match it

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=htc+one+x

it appears that they took the average scores of the android phones, without looking at what the top score was.

Bit strange considering they are comparing it to 1 leaked/faked benchmark screenshot....
simul
Posted 03:25pm 17/9/12
You said it all really, why would Apple not adopt micro-USB to avoid removing functionality and then create a proprietary port without that functionality?


Because the dock adapter (and its successor) don't just do data and power, they do video streaming etc. Moving to micro-USB would make a lot of accessories incompatible. Thats just the way it is, like it or hate it.
Jayman
Posted 03:28pm 17/9/12
False - http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?q=galaxy+s+III


Whats with the huge variance on the galaxy s3's? Anyone have that they can run geekbench on and tell us what they get?

I assume this was based on average scores? Browsing through some get 1900ish some get like 1200...

Android-Benchmarks.gif
Nathan
Posted 03:45pm 17/9/12
You think Apple couldnt design a connector that was both Micro-USB compatible and would do whatever other stuff they want it to do? As others have pointed out, even if MHL doesnt suit Apple's purposes the mere existance of MHL demonstrates its possible to make something that is both Micro-USB compatible and can do other things.

The iPhone connector is incompatible solely because Apple want it to be incompatible. (and FWIW; the new connector doesn't do a bunch of the things the old one did anyway - like analogue audio out)
copuis
Posted 03:50pm 17/9/12
you know, i doubt that those test score will be reflected on release models, it just doesn't compute that faster running chips, with twice as many cores can run slower
Tooheys
Posted 04:06pm 17/9/12
of course not, because no new arcitecture has every increase per cycle performance and maximised fewer cores to achieve better performance... sure.









Oh wait that happens ALL the time in cmp.
copuis
Posted 04:14pm 17/9/12
not that much of a change, over not that big of a big difference
simul
Posted 04:48pm 17/9/12
You think Apple couldnt design a connector that was both Micro-USB compatible and would do whatever other stuff they want it to do? As others have pointed out, even if MHL doesnt suit Apple's purposes the mere existance of MHL demonstrates its possible to make something that is both Micro-USB compatible and can do other things.


Fair point, though they would probably cop it anyway like Samsung did:
http://www.mobileburn.com/19823/news/standards-be-damned-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-requires-special-mhl-adapter-
http://www.galaxymhl.com/

And Apple have always been prats about connectors, whats new :P
demon
Posted 04:58pm 17/9/12
i feel like the only person in the world that still doesn't care about phones :(
Scooter
Posted 05:26pm 17/9/12
i feel like the only person in the world that still doesn't care about phones :(


I still have, use and am happy with a Non-smart Nokia C5, I don't even have data on my phone (though I probably would use it if I did.)
So you are not alone.
copuis
Posted 06:04pm 17/9/12
scooter, your phone is newer than mine,

also, you dont have to have a wizz bang new phone to care about them



it is like cars, there are many cars we lust over, I mean there is no chance of me ever owning a 1932 8L bentley, but it doesn't stop me wanting to try one,
parabol
Posted 07:02pm 17/9/12
Pic of Samsung's new ad below.

(Also I'd wish they'd stop using that blue flowery wallpaper. It looks like a smashed screen at first glance)

simul
Posted 07:22pm 17/9/12


kos
Posted 07:52pm 17/9/12
And Apple have always been prats about connectors, whats new :P

This is what I don't get about Apple customers, if you already know that Apple are a*******s about connectors, why did you feel the need to try to defend their decision that is obviously not in customer's interests?
simul
Posted 08:20pm 17/9/12
This is what I don't get about Apple customers, if you already know that Apple are a*******s about connectors, why did you feel the need to try to defend their decision that is obviously not in customer's interests?


Because thats the way they are, they cut and run - some turn out great, some are dodgy as hell. The completely dropped serial for USB very early, they completely dropped VGA for DVI very early. For all its so called hate, the dock connector has stood the test of time very well, and has become a decent standard. Thunderbolt, Firewire, Mini Displayport - all decent/potentially decent technologies.


Remember the charging standard pre iPhone? B**** all you want, the dock connector made USB phone charging a requirement for the competition. I'd say that was a pretty big plus for customers interest in retrospect.

last edited by simul at 20:20:18 17/Sep/12
Beezwax
Posted 08:54pm 17/9/12
huh? i had a razr. they were one of the most popular phones and came with usb in 2003. i believe most phones had usb charging and connectivity during 2003 and after that year. first iphone was out 2007
kos
Posted 09:08pm 17/9/12
Because thats the way they are, they cut and run - some turn out great, some are dodgy as hell. The completely dropped serial for USB very early, they completely dropped VGA for DVI very early.
Cutting and running is not the problem, it's not the changing of the connector that I take issue with, it's their shunning of a perfectly viable standard for a proprietary connector.

For all its so called hate, the dock connector has stood the test of time very well, and has become a decent standard. Thunderbolt, Firewire, Mini Displayport - all decent/potentially decent technologies.
None of these compare to the iPhone connector's proprietary-ness, and to say that it has become a standard is just incorrect.

Remember the charging standard pre iPhone? B**** all you want, the dock connector made USB phone charging a requirement for the competition. I'd say that was a pretty big plus for customers interest in retrospect.
My god.. Apple and the iPhone have nothing to do with standardised connectors or USB charging. A bunch of tech companies got together and agreed to use standard connectors, and then eventually the EU went even further and made it mandatory for selling in the EU that a product was USB-standard compatible.

As usual it's Apple fans claiming that anything good happening anywhere in the industry is a result of Apple.
parabol
Posted 09:46pm 17/9/12
As usual it's Apple fans claiming that anything good happening anywhere in the industry is a result of Apple.

It's just the reality distortion field in action.

No point arguing with them. Just add them to the list of people you don't try to initiate a balanced discussion with.

last edited by parabol at 21:46:55 17/Sep/12
dais
Posted 09:53pm 17/9/12
I don't own an iPhone as my 10 year old Sony Ericsson still works fine. But I will be buying one of these next month: http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch/select
Murderer
Posted 10:06pm 17/9/12
Apple suck samsungs c*** secretly under the table whilst samsung pats apples head.
dais
Posted 12:17am 18/9/12
copuis
Posted 03:10am 18/9/12
hahahaha, the apple fans reply, 4 years of updates, I doubt it,
virus free, they cant prove that, it is only a matter of time at best
fits in all pockets, nope, not that little change pocket on my jeans,
it isn't the most powerful,
easy one hand use?, I've tried texting one handed on a iphone 4 (same width) and it was far from easy,
fastest gpu, doubtful, faster than an s3, maybe
is the apple ap market still the largest?
simul
Posted 06:10am 18/9/12
huh? i had a razr. they were one of the most popular phones and came with usb in 2003. i believe most phones had usb charging and connectivity during 2003 and after that year. first iphone was out 2007


Fair point (although it came out at the end of 2004), although it also required specialised headphones via USB as well. However it wasn't that standard, for instance Nokia n95/n96 while having USB couldn't charge through it.
simul
Posted 06:28am 18/9/12
Cutting and running is not the problem, it's not the changing of the connector that I take issue with, it's their shunning of a perfectly viable standard for a proprietary connector.


Oh I totally agree, but thats the nature of business, happens all the time.

None of these compare to the iPhone connector's proprietary-ness, and to say that it has become a standard is just incorrect.


Regardless of whether its proprietary or not, if > half of mobile phone accessories have it, its a standard (just not an open standard) - http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/proprietary-standard.html.

My god.. Apple and the iPhone have nothing to do with standardised connectors or USB charging. A bunch of tech companies got together and agreed to use standard connectors, and then eventually the EU went even further and made it mandatory for selling in the EU that a product was USB-standard compatible.
As usual it's Apple fans claiming that anything good happening anywhere in the industry is a result of Apple.


Haha, don't misinterpret what I am saying. What I am saying is that before the iPhone, USB charging was a feature, not an expectation. As for the EU standard, Apple supported it from the get-go, and EU phones have a dock->microUSB adapter packaged:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/06/29/telecom-eu-mobile-idCALT4437920090629?rpc=44

PS Legacy analog audio out is supported on Lightning port.
kos
Posted 08:20am 18/9/12
Oh I totally agree, but thats the nature of business, happens all the time.
A company does something bad that happens all the time and that's why you feel the need to try to defend what they're doing? Incredible...

Regardless of whether its proprietary or not, if > half of mobile phone accessories have it, its a standard (just not an open standard) - http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/proprietary-standard.html.
OK, but what makes you think the iPhone has ever accounted for half of all mobile phone accessories?
World_Wide_Smartphone_Sales_Share.png
The iPhone's market share has barely ever gone above 20%, and that's not even counting feature phones, which I believe is still a larger market than smartphones. Apple's overstated "domination" of the market is just another effect of the Apple reality distortion field.

Haha, don't misinterpret what I am saying. What I am saying is that before the iPhone, USB charging was a feature, not an expectation.
Restating it doesn't change the fact that you incorrectly believe that something has happened because of the iPhone's existence.

And let's not even get into your totally flawed logic here:
Remember the charging standard pre iPhone? B**** all you want, the dock connector made USB phone charging a requirement for the competition. I'd say that was a pretty big plus for customers interest in retrospect.
I said Apple did something against customer's interests and you genuinely tried to convince me that they had actually done something for the customers' benefit by creating a phone that allegedly made other companies adhere to a standard while Apple themselves refused to.
jmr
Posted 08:08am 18/9/12
What the f*** is Bada?
mental
Posted 08:16am 18/9/12
Samsung has their own OS called Bada.

Samsung wave lineup is bada os.
galaxy is android os.
and now I'm guessing ativ is windows 8 lineup.
Murderer
Posted 08:51am 18/9/12
samsung also making something called titan?
maRtz
Posted 09:34am 18/9/12
Apple's overstated "domination" of the market is just another effect of the Apple reality distortion field.


Dunno, everywhere I look, all I see are iphones. Also comparing iOS to android is not really accurate as android is an operating system that is found on various brands of phones? where iOS is only found on iphones.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
parabol
Posted 09:55am 18/9/12
How current iPhone users see the iPhone 5 (from slashdot):



kos
Posted 04:59pm 18/9/12
Dunno, everywhere I look, all I see are iphones. Also comparing iOS to android is not really accurate as android is an operating system that is found on various brands of phones? where iOS is only found on iphones.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
iOS is found on all models of iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch but you're right that the iPhone is the best selling single line of smart phones by far.

My point was only that the iPhone connector could not possibly come close to accounting for more than 50% of mobile phone accessories, even though some Apple fans seem to genuinely believe that they could.
Nathan
Posted 10:10am 18/9/12
Dunno, everywhere I look, all I see are iphones.
I think there's two factors that contribute to that:

1. The graph is world-wide; Australia may be buying more Apple stuff than the world at large.
2. iPhone is clearly the most popular individual MODEL of smart phone; if we assume for arguments sake that 25% of smartphones in Australia are iPhone, and the remaining 75% consists of 25 different models of Android/Win7/blackberry/etc phones - none of the other phones will be memorable by comparison because you're seeing 8x as many iPhones as any other individual model of phone.
Damo
Posted 11:21am 18/9/12
Does anyone have any info or links so I can cancel an order with optus?
Mass
Posted 04:41pm 18/9/12
Okay I just Geekbenched my SGS3 running JB 4.1.1 aparently the iPhone5 isn't the fastest phone on the market, I just clocked a score of 1864.
Whoop
Posted 05:06pm 18/9/12
how do I get geekbench? is it free? will it hack my gibsonz?

edit: lol
Geekbench scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 1,000 (which is the score of a single-processor Power Mac G5 @ 1.6GHz).

I bet it's optimized to run better under iOS / OSX.
Seven
Posted 05:27pm 18/9/12
This might help, Whoop

edit: now I feel like a d*** after you gave me that extra info, cheers BTW
Whoop
Posted 05:30pm 18/9/12
FYI geekbench doesn't show up in the store on my phone. I know how to google. It shows up in the play store on my PC though.
simul
Posted 09:43pm 18/9/12
A company does something bad that happens all the time and that's why you feel the need to try to defend what they're doing? Incredible...


No need at all. I merely came in providing the point that they needed to support legacy on the dock, nothing more. I swear android fanbois are getting more annoying/blinded than the apple ones. I'm a fan of both for different reasons.

OK, but what makes you think the iPhone has ever accounted for half of all mobile phone accessories?


Anecdotal evidence based on that most cars that I rent when traveling have dock connectors, and most hotels that I stay at have radios with dock connectors. And when I walk into a random electronics shop the accessories isle is half "iPhone", and half "Other" (though I haven't visited such a place in a while).

The iPhone's market share has barely ever gone above 20%, and that's not even counting feature phones, which I believe is still a larger market than smartphones. Apple's overstated "domination" of the market is just another effect of the Apple reality distortion field.


There is no stated "domination" of the iPhone in terms of market share. The iPhone leads in terms of mind-share (well, it may be fairly level now), thats all (well, profit-share, heh.).

Restating it doesn't change the fact that you incorrectly believe that something has happened because of the iPhone's existence.


I believe it cause I lived it. I was doing ubicomp/Symbian research development pre iOS - was very up on both where Nokia and MSFT was headed. I still have a few 6600's littered around the place.

I said Apple did something against customer's interests and you genuinely tried to convince me that they had actually done something for the customers' benefit by creating a phone that allegedly made other companies adhere to a standard while Apple themselves refused to.


I genuinely did not try to convince you that they had done something for the customers benefit. I linked you to the point where Apple supported the EU decision, where by they do include micro-USB adapters in every EU box.
kos
Posted 11:07pm 18/9/12
No need at all. I merely came in providing the point that they needed to support legacy on the dock, nothing more. I swear android fanbois are getting more annoying/blinded than the apple ones. I'm a fan of both for different reasons.
Yes you said that trying to defend them not using micro-USB, while it was clear that they could have done it with a micro-USB compatible solution. I'm not an Android fanboi and have personally tried a bunch of different mobile platforms, 'Apple hater' would be a much more apt term (and don't take that the wrong way, I do think they make some amazing products, it's the company's business decisions and activities that I hate), but I can assure you that you seem a lot more blinded than any Android fan I've talked to.

Anecdotal evidence based on that most cars that I rent when traveling have dock connectors, and most hotels that I stay at have radios with dock connectors. And when I walk into a random electronics shop the accessories isle is half "iPhone", and half "Other" (though I haven't visited such a place in a while).
You must be hiring the same car every single time or something because I've hired at least 5 latest model cars over here in the EU in the last year and not a single one had an iPhone dock connector. Your anecdotal evidence is severely flawed. The iPhone dock connector is not even close to being a "standard" by any official definition of the word.

There is no stated "domination" of the iPhone in terms of market share. The iPhone leads in terms of mind-share (well, it may be fairly level now), thats all (well, profit-share, heh.).
Couldn't have said it much better myself, people have it in their minds that Apple is more dominant than it actually is (as evidenced by your belief that the Apple dock connector would account for greater than 50% of mobile phone accessories).

I was doing ubicomp/Symbian research development pre iOS - was very up on both where Nokia and MSFT was headed.
You mean a couple of the least significant companies in the smartphone market now? So you weren't up on where Motorola, HTC, Samsung, Siemens, Sony-Ericsson, etc. were headed?

I genuinely did not try to convince you that they had done something for the customers benefit.
I don't know how else you expected this sentence to be interpreted besides as I described, especially considering that you were responding to my question of "why did you feel the need to try to defend their decision that is obviously not in customer's interests?":
Remember the charging standard pre iPhone? B**** all you want, the dock connector made USB phone charging a requirement for the competition. I'd say that was a pretty big plus for customers interest in retrospect.
 
I linked you to the point where Apple supported the EU decision, where by they do include micro-USB adapters in every EU box.
Actually this is you wrong again in defending Apple, it's confirmed that the adapter will not come with the iPhone 5 and will have to be bought seperately for £15/€19, and is also available only in Europe. Here's an article about it. Another serving of Apple reality distortion field for you?

Edit: Incidentally that article also mentions the fact that Apple warns that not all 30-pin connector accessories will even work with the Lightning to 30-pin converter. It's seeming less and less likely that compatibility was their concern in any way at all.
simul
Posted 11:45pm 18/9/12
Yes you said that trying to defend them not using micro-USB, while it was clear that they could have done it with a micro-USB compatible solution. I'm not an Android fanboi and have personally tried a bunch of different mobile platforms, 'Apple hater' would be a much more apt term (and don't take that the wrong way, I do think they make some amazing products, it's the company's business decisions and activities that I hate), but I can assure you that you seem a lot more blinded than any Android fan I've talked to.


I have no problems at all with them not going with micro-USB. If they stick with their new connector as long as they have with the dock connector, then good on em. If it provides better backwards compatibility with existing accessories, fantastic. I won't b**** about the s3 using a different MHL adapter, I happily paid for one of those too because I wanted to use the feature. Hate to say it, there are much worse companies out there than Apple.

You must be hiring the same car every single time or something because I've hired at least 5 latest model cars over here in the EU in the last year and not a single one had an iPhone dock connector. Your anecdotal evidence is severely flawed. The iPhone dock connector is not even close to being a "standard" by any official definition of the word.


To be fair, it has mostly been rentals on the US west coast, so it may be biased.
Errr, thats the definition of anecdotal evidence.
Its a proprietary standard with a high level of support, same as PDF used to be (before it became...wait for it..an "open" standard in 2008).

You mean a couple of the least significant companies in the smartphone market now? So you weren't up on where Motorola, HTC, Samsung, Siemens, Sony-Ericsson, etc. were headed?


...Ohhhkay. Actually they were the smartphone industry of the time (minus palm and rim). Motorola and HTC were creating MSFT devices (Moto Q, HTC/O2). Samsung used Symbian (at least on the 550i etc), as did Sony IIRC. Trolltech, Android inc. and other small startups were 1000x closer to the future than any of those companies you mentioned.



So I'm not even going to bother anymore.

However, as for the EU, I was referring to what Apple has/is currently doing with supporting the standard. What they are going to do with the iPhone 5 is clearly a jerk move, and the EU should pull them up on it (and most likely will).
kos
Posted 01:37am 19/9/12
I have no problems at all with them not going with micro-USB.
This is exactly the problem. People shouldn't just lie down and take it when companies do s*** like this, cause it just means they will continue to. People shouldn't be content with Samsung making an incompatible MHL connector either and I can assure you that I would take just as much exception to someone trying to defend that decision as I would someone trying to defend Apple's.

Its a proprietary standard with a high level of support, same as PDF used to be (before it became...wait for it..an "open" standard in 2008).
No, it's a proprietary connector with a high level of support (all of that support coming at the cost of a license fee to Apple by the way).

...Ohhhkay. Actually they were the smartphone industry of the time (minus palm and rim). Motorola and HTC were creating MSFT devices (Moto Q, HTC/O2). Samsung used Symbian (at least on the 550i etc), as did Sony IIRC. Trolltech, Android inc. and other small startups were 1000x closer to the future than any of those companies you mentioned.
True, but the point was that we were talking about an industry agreed standard, between many companies. You said you had special knowledge of a grand total of one hardware manufacturing company, and then used it to back up what you felt your impression of the industry at the time. Just more anecdotes.

In the end there is no denying that Apple aren't interested in adhering to hardware standards because it's clear that they can make much more money selling their proprietary branded accessories at inflated prices (and charging licensing fees to anyone who does want to support it). Not to mention the fact that it helps make it even less attractive for customers to leave Apple's ecosystem if their peripherals won't be compatible with other devices. Customers should not be content with them doing this.

The biggest influence we as customers have on the industry is our choice of purchase. To sit by and have no concerns while companies do things to make our choices as undesirable and inconvenient as possible is just crazy.

However, as for the EU, I was referring to what Apple has/is currently doing with supporting the standard.
You said
I linked you to the point where Apple supported the EU decision, where by they do include micro-USB adapters in every EU box.
but up until now Apple has not included the adapter in any EU box (and will continue not to).

Interestingly, the iPhone 4S did come with the adapter, in China of all places. Why Apple can provide it for free in China and not the rest of the world is anyone's guess. Depends where they think they can milk their customers the most I guess.

It's good to hear that you're not going to bother trying to defend Apple's s***** decisions with misleading statements and biased anecdotes anymore.
copuis
Posted 06:57am 19/9/12
i know why it was included in the china box, cause the shipping cost are nil
jmr
Posted 07:03am 19/9/12
kos what is your background?
Jayman
Posted 07:05pm 19/9/12
kos
Posted 07:45pm 19/9/12
Impressive figures, sounds like they've done some really good stuff with the A6.

Just a shame that those JS benchmarks for the iPhone 5 will probably be at least 3 times slower running on any browser besides Mobile Safari.
eski
Posted 09:31pm 19/9/12
Far out! the iphone 5 has the biggest/smallest numbers yet. Having never seen one I'm 100% sure It must be f*****g awesome!
parabol
Posted 09:38am 20/9/12
New ad:

eski
Posted 09:59am 20/9/12
thats gross
infi
Posted 11:20am 20/9/12
haha,

apple user: we're gonna get all that for sure, maybe not this time but the next time.
Whoop
Posted 11:28am 20/9/12
Will the new iPhail have the ability to send photos / videos / contacts via bluetooth?
fpot
Posted 06:57pm 20/9/12
Quote-reply-quote-reply-quote-reply, all about the iPhone.

We have reached peak QGL.
E.T.
Posted 06:47am 21/9/12
The Woz is waiting in line right now at Chermside for the worlds 1st iPhone.
He tweeted a bit over an hour ago. The store opens at 9.

In line for first iPhone 5's in the world! (@ Apple Store w/ 2 others)
ravn0s
Posted 08:35am 21/9/12
didn't know the woz was in australia
HeardY
Posted 09:12am 21/9/12
Only 20 or so isheep lining up outside a Telstra shop I walk past together to work...
maRtz
Posted 12:34pm 21/9/12
The Woz is waiting in line right now at Chermside for the worlds 1st iPhone.
He tweeted a bit over an hour ago. The store opens at 9.

In line for first iPhone 5's in the world! (@ Apple Store w/ 2 others)


tell him he's a f***** for lining up outside a shop waiting for a phone.
Opec
Posted 01:13pm 21/9/12
Enjoyed using your amazing Apple Map suckers. LOLz
parabol
Posted 04:29pm 21/9/12
From the newsdotcomdotau:




HASN'T USED IT BUT IS HAPPY WITH IT.

What the f*** is this world coming to. Apple fanbois are retarded.

last edited by parabol at 16:29:12 21/Sep/12
Rdizz
Posted 06:14pm 21/9/12
apparently iOS6 doesnt use google maps anymore, this is the result.

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
csirac
Posted 06:33pm 21/9/12
link
DM
Posted 06:45pm 21/9/12
What do you expect, it's apple. S*** never just works and there is always an issue when the latest iphone comes out.
Murderer
Posted 06:58pm 21/9/12
Had over 40 people waiting at my store at 8am.

Sold out by 10am.

Fkn hate apple s***.

Now samsung are suing apple over lte technology or some s***.

And apple say they will sue over jellybean??

btw; i love this video!

TicMan
Posted 07:14pm 21/9/12
iPhone 7 will have updated maps that find actual locations.
crazymorton
Posted 08:31pm 21/9/12
doesn't really matter. just keep using google maps
Damo
Posted 11:24pm 21/9/12
Got mine but still waiting for my Telstra signal to start up.
kos
Posted 11:25pm 21/9/12


The whole long phone thing is getting a bit old now, but this one was pretty lols.
Opec
Posted 06:05am 22/9/12
doesn't really matter. just keep using google maps


There's no Google Map for IOS6. Unless you want to use maps.google.com in Safari or until Google release the native apps for IOS6 (rumored to but not confirmed by Google). If I were google, I'd let them suffer LOLZ.
Reverend Evil
Posted 09:14am 22/9/12
LOFL

That ad is hilarious
parabol
Posted 10:38am 22/9/12
If I were google, I'd let them suffer LOLZ.

Keep in mind:

1. It took Google years to get the maps to the level, accuracy and usefulness they are at today. They hence have a major headstart.

2. Google's core specialisation is in data/image processing and they have a lot of PhD-wielding guys in these fields working for them.

I can't imagine Apple catching up that easily or quickly. Quite an ambitious move by them. Hope they continue to fail for being douches by degrading one of the main features of their phones.

last edited by parabol at 10:38:38 22/Sep/12
tspec
Posted 11:30am 22/9/12
1. It took Google years to get the maps to the level, accuracy and usefulness they are at today. They hence have a major headstart.

Didn't they partner up with Tomtom though? Tomtom aren't exactly new to the mapping business.

The one and only thing I like about Apple's maps app over the Google's app is you can flick to landscape mode.
parabol
Posted 11:54am 22/9/12
Didn't they partner up with Tomtom though? Tomtom aren't exactly new to the mapping business.

The iOS6 Apple maps thing is a partnership with Tomtom.
Opec
Posted 01:07pm 22/9/12
Didn't they partner up with Tomtom though? Tomtom aren't exactly new to the mapping business.

The one and only thing I like about Apple's maps app over the Google's app is you can flick to landscape mode.



Erhm Google Map app on Android could do this for ages. How is that even exciting LOL?
Opec
Posted 01:14pm 22/9/12
Keep in mind:

1. It took Google years to get the maps to the level, accuracy and usefulness they are at today. They hence have a major headstart.

2. Google's core specialisation is in data/image processing and they have a lot of PhD-wielding guys in these fields working for them.

I can't imagine Apple catching up that easily or quickly. Quite an ambitious move by them. Hope they continue to fail for being douches by degrading one of the main features of their phones.



Yep, I think Microsoft has done slightly better with their map considering (obviously still bought companies but seem they're buying the right ones). And now they're going to use Nokia map which is quite good from what I've heard. Still it'll be hard to catch up with the big G in mapping area as they have such a huuuuuuuge head start and still haven't slowed down at all. With Google's user base they can afford to have a much cleaner, more accurate data for local shops and stuff so yeah tough gigs for Apple.

Perhaps it'll go the way of Ping ? heh.
Jayman
Posted 03:06pm 22/9/12
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6324/the-iphone-5-performance-preview

An early look at Anandtech's review.

Looks like performance wise the iPhone 5 handily beats the Galaxy S3. Double the graphics performance. I'm actually more looking forward to what this new hardware will do for the next iPad once it's beefed up even further.
Twisted
Posted 06:15pm 22/9/12
Keep in mind
Pretty sure Apple didn't do their mapping stuff from the ground up. Like most of their new features they've been buying up map software companies for a few years.
TicMan
Posted 07:30pm 22/9/12
Another big maps fail for me. Any route from my house heading towards the CBD tells me to go down a road that is basically a hill. It's a dirt track that is only accessible by 4WD and when it's dry. It's that bad it has no through road signs at either end.

Edit: I tell maps to go the opposite direction and it tells me to go down a road that doesn't even exist. Putting in Melbourne lands it at Albert Park in South Melbourne.
Saint
Posted 09:48am 24/9/12
I9yRH.jpg
ravn0s
Posted 12:19pm 24/9/12
parabol
Posted 07:19pm 24/9/12
fpot
Posted 07:35am 25/9/12
Someone needs to make a gif of the scene in Blues Brothers where they are driving in the shopping centre with that image macro.
thermite
Posted 11:06am 26/9/12
lol

paveway
Posted 01:00pm 26/9/12
haha can't be serious
jmr
Posted 01:23pm 26/9/12
Maps is horrible, but 4G is epic - especially for someone like me who uses tethering so frequently

i5.PNG
Damo
Posted 03:46pm 26/9/12
jmr, where in brisbane did you do that?

I'm only getting 24 down in the valley.
jmr
Posted 06:08pm 26/9/12
West End
Damo
Posted 06:59pm 26/9/12
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Reverend Evil
Posted 09:48am 27/9/12
Funny iphone prank

TiT
Posted 10:01am 27/9/12
Still waiting for Telstra to deliver my phone, really looking forward to 4G
Mass
Posted 10:15am 27/9/12
Still waiting for Telstra to deliver my phone, really looking forward to 4G

I have 2 of them sitting under my desk..... cause they are thinner I needed two to prop up the uneven leg.
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