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Post by trog @ 01:51pm 21/02/11 | 32 Comments
Sony's official statement about the recent PlayStation 3 hacking continues to be a big topic in the PS3 gaming world, but on the other side of the fence, GeoHot has asked for donations to help in his battle against Sony, along with a good summary of what has happened so far as well as his position on the matter:
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone's copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it's paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.

My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play "super mario world, an unauthorized game" on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
There's a few other interesting tidbits of information so it's worth a read. He's also set up a new blog to cover the case as it progresses, and so far it sounds like donations are coming.












Latest Comments
Midda
Posted 02:02pm 21/2/11
I was surprised by the comments I saw on Kotaku Australia about this post. Basically, everyone there was siding with Sony, which seems bizarre to me. I don't really understand why anyone would want to support Sony and the ways they decide to f*** over their consumers.
trog
Posted 02:10pm 21/2/11
I was surprised by the comments I saw on Kotaku Australia about this post. Basically, everyone there was siding with Sony, which seems bizarre to me. I don't really understand why anyone would want to support Sony and the ways they decide to f*** over their consumers.
yeh the PS3 blog has a lot of that as well. The overwhelming attitude here seems to indicate Sony's official FUD is working - they've aligned "the hacking of the PS3" with "cheating online" and everyone is now scared their online game experience is going to be ruined.

There's a good post here about that (linked from the geohot page). It's a valid concern, but it's fundamentally a problem with the games depending solely on PSN's protection schemes and not having their own mechanisms to help moderate gameplay.

They'll (once again) have to play catch-up with PCs now ; if they want to really stop this then all games will need to ship with a unique CD key mechanism that allows them to ban keys at a separate level. If I had a PS3 and played games online this is one thing I would be looking for carefully in future titles; the cheating problem is only going to get worse, not better.
paveway
Posted 02:09pm 21/2/11
yeah i don't feel sorry for him

especially parading it around like he has, he's just a nerdy douchebag from what i can gather
kappa
Posted 02:18pm 21/2/11
There are many FPS shooters on the PC, and people can install what they want on their PC, that doesn’t make it impossible to play an FPS game on a PC, simply because the developers write their code correctly to prevents the cheaters from cheating.

This seems reasonable. Or is this only possible because of CD keys?
teq
Posted 02:29pm 21/2/11
what? the guy is a f*****g champion
he's not a cheater, he's just someone who is taking sony on at their own game and he's winning
they can't write decent code that this kid can't hack, so they take him to court

its his f*****g ps3, he should be able to do whatever wants with it, end of story
Dan
Posted 02:30pm 21/2/11
Or is this only possible because of CD keys?
Partly, but also due to software like VAC and Punkbuster. Implementing those kind of protections on consoles is generally completely overlooked because the developers accepted the secure console environment (now blown wide open) as all the protection they would need.

Also, the main reason it is so rampant in Black Ops PS3 in particular is because of the lack of dedicated servers on the consoles. If there was dedicated servers, then those servers could be player moderated just like happens on PC.

So blame the s***** trend to client-hosted game servers before you go blaming the people hacking the devices.
Pinky
Posted 02:40pm 21/2/11
So blame the s***** trend to client-hosted game servers before you go blaming the people hacking the devices.

That's all I'm seeing.

There is an easy way around all of the cheating - but noone wanted to take that route, and so now they are complaining because people are cheating.

Bizarre to me.
trog
Posted 02:43pm 21/2/11
I can TOTALLY see why game developers did it that way though and while I think they need to take their share of the blame, it's hard to be too critical. Sony would have presented them with this awesome-sounding security system for their games and I'm sure they went with it because it meant they could offload large chunks of development.

Plus it's just another avenue for them to "entice" people to upgrading to the next game once it is released. "Now with awesome cheat protection!"
Kf
Posted 03:08pm 21/2/11
Never had a console and probably never will, but how rampant is piracy on consoles?

Can you simply download a game and play it (after burning?) like on PC?

I wonder why companies like Activision/EA etc dont go after groups which crack and pirate games, are they annonymous and this guy GeoHot was obviously not?
BladeHunter
Posted 03:19pm 21/2/11
Never had a console and probably never will, but how rampant is piracy on consoles? Can you simply download a game and play it (after burning?) like on PC?I wonder why companies like Activision/EA etc dont go after groups which crack and pirate games, are they annonymous and this guy GeoHot was obviously not?


You don't need to burn, just download and FTP to your console or whack on an external drive and plug in to the console then run it.

Was the same on XBox 1, not sure about 360 though, I don't have one.
Rdizz
Posted 03:25pm 21/2/11
what? the guy is a f*****g champion he's not a cheater, he's just someone who is taking sony on at their own game and he's winning they can't write decent code that this kid can't hack, so they take him to court its his f*****g ps3, he should be able to do whatever wants with it, end of story


This^.

I dont own a PS3 and never will (always have been the PC first gamer but have had the console life NES>SNES>64>XBOX>360 type but i dont even have a console anymore) so this does not apply to me in any way but the point teq makes here is legit.

Like c'mon sony.
Hogfather
Posted 03:41pm 21/2/11
Geohot did nothing wrong - the ps3 hack is exactly the same as jailbreaking an iPhone and blackrain was from the same author.

You can't support one and not the other, and I've never seen anyone come out on Apple's side over that.
Midda
Posted 03:43pm 21/2/11
I get the impression that a lot of people have absolutely no idea what Geohot has actually done. They seem to think that he released some magical key so people could go cheat in CoD. What he did was give us the means to do what we want with the system we bought ourselves. Everyone loads praise on him for jailbreaking the iPhone, but when he does the exact same thing for the PS3, he's somehow now the bad guy? Yes, it's unfortunate that there are idiots out there who used this as a means to cheat online and steal games, but that wasn't his intention, nor is that directly hid fault.

Hell, it wasn't even him who originally found the private key, that was Fail0verflow. It's pretty disgraceful that all of these people are rushing to the defence of a company that doesn't have their best interests in mind.

EDIT: High-five for bringing up the same point about the iPhone, Hoggy.

last edited by Midda at 15:43:33 21/Feb/11
FaceMan
Posted 04:05pm 21/2/11
Im all broken up over Sonys piracy problems.

molokoplus
Posted 04:24pm 21/2/11
Geohot makes Sony a SAAAD PAAANDA
Fixah
Posted 04:28pm 21/2/11
I've been living under a rock: this is the same dude who hacked the iphone?

Then what is people's problem? i bet half of them are running around with jailbroken iphones.

F*** them, more power to him and bring back Fight Club!
reso
Posted 04:31pm 21/2/11
Should I donate?

Y/N.

Don't really want HBGary tracking me down from my donation and hassling my facebook friends though.
Basket
Posted 04:35pm 21/2/11
^ hhahah
ravn0s
Posted 04:40pm 21/2/11
Should I donate?

Y/N.

Don't really want HBGary tracking me down from my donation and hassling my facebook friends though.


sony will probably demand that paypal hand over info of everyone that donated, much like they tried to do with google and those that viewed the yt vids of the hack.
myWhiteWolf
Posted 11:48am 22/2/11
its his f*****g ps3, he should be able to do whatever wants with it, end of story


now don't get me wrong, I'm totally in support with geohot and hate sony with a passion with what they have done to my PS3.. BUT

although its right for you to do whatever you want with your property as long as it doesn't affect others. (ie, IPhone jailbreak). What sony are likely going to do is say that by enabling cheating on their system this "jailbreak" is harming their customers. if they say piracy is harming consumers then this is only a minor extension. (eg, hacking reduces the value of COD's online experience, which hurts sales, and because money is more important then personal freedoms with equipment the court will rule in favor of sony unless geohot has a good lawyer.)

What i find funny is that its OK for Sony to harm consumers in EXACTLY the same way by removing functionality on a product so that it can't be used in all ways advertised. (eg, removing the homebrew option reduces the value of the ps3, you either have the choice of "homebrew" or "new games.")

what i want to know is. why do companies not have a legal requirement to maintain functionality that was advertised originally with the product yet has a legal right to dictate in what way their product is utilized. Sony, you can't have it both ways.

this legally allows sony to have a "bug" that bricks your ps3 on a specific date (say, the release date of the ps4), then saying its illegal to change the date to pre ps4 release dates to fix this "bug".
icewyrm
Posted 12:18pm 22/2/11
Hrm, I have to say that enabling custom code execution is a long way from "enabling cheating".

Based on his blog it seems like they are going after him on the basis that he is using the device for purposes they have not approved, rather than based on potential rammifications of his work, but I guess you'd have to read the court notes or whatever to be sure.
Pinky
Posted 12:33pm 22/2/11
sony will probably demand that paypal hand over info of everyone that donated, much like they tried to do with google and those that viewed the yt vids of the hack.

This is just scare-mongering. It would fail for the same reasons it failed previously.

geohot is the person taking the risks here. If you think it's a good cause then donate.
myWhiteWolf
Posted 12:45pm 22/2/11
I have to say that enabling custom code execution is a long way from "enabling cheating".


put another way. "is it possible to cheat in the online games without this hack?". Sony case is going to be built around this.

unfortunately due to the current political climate in America (corperations have the same / more rights than individuals and expectation to profit from investment (not ability, expectation) seems to be the driving factor in court with regards to intellectual property) chances are Geohots screwed.

Its also unfortunate that this will then be used as a precedent in international copyright law. so this will effect everyone and is a worth while cause to donate to but don't be surprised if your PSN account gets banned if your psnid and your pay-pal id ever are linked by Sony.
paveway
Posted 01:25pm 22/2/11
maybe i'll donate to sony and buy another game this weekend
Spook
Posted 01:24pm 27/2/11
lols, what other games are there to buy pave?
Sc00bs
Posted 02:27pm 27/2/11
lol sony and their power trip.

Cant stand big companies like this telling you what your allowed to do with ur property.

We arent renting the f***** ps3 off you. WE BOUGHT IT.

MarkyMarky
Posted 07:12pm 27/2/11
Wouldn't have been so bad if he just hacked his own PS3 and then didn't brag about it.
It's more a case of him hacking the PS3, and then releasing a 'how to guide'.
He acts all high and mighty by saying he doesn't support piracy and s***, but as smart as he is, i'm sure he knew that there would be someone who would be able to hack his hack to allow piracy.
Sony is just protecting their Intellectual Property. Good on em'
In the end gamers benefit.
Midda
Posted 07:18pm 27/2/11
Yeah, we all benefit from Sony keeping us from being able to do what we want with our own property. Good on Sony! Hopefully they start telling me what games I can and can't play soon too!
trog
Posted 07:20pm 27/2/11
Sony is just protecting their Intellectual Property. Good on em'
In the end gamers benefit.
Gamers benefit when guys like geohot expand the functionality of their devices.

They don't benefit when Sony remove functionality and then sue people who try to restore it.

Whether or not he supports piracy doesn't matter to me at all. He could be 100% pro-piracy and I wouldn't really care, as long as it meant I could use my PS3 in whatever ways I wanted, because it wouldn't change the fact that piracy is an act that /I/ have to perform. As it is, I'm glad of his obvious, apparently, up-front anti-piracy attitude because it makes it even more clear that he's just interested in freedom and the ability of consumers to use their device in any manner that they want to.
`ViPER`
Posted 07:53pm 27/2/11
Sony is just protecting their Intellectual Property. Good on em'
In the end gamers benefit


How does it benefit gamers at all?

Wouldn't trying to implement an anti-cheating system benefit gamers?

How does sueing people help anybody but the lawyers?

It wont stop the piracy.
It wont stop the cheating.

It will piss of more hackers to hack the system more.
MarkyMarky
Posted 08:53pm 27/2/11
'Yeah, we all benefit from Sony keeping us from being able to do what we want with our own property. Good on Sony! Hopefully they start telling me what games I can and can't play soon too!'

Lol! now that's just a silly exagerration. Why would Sony tell you to stop playing games. Playing games is what makes them money. Hacking a system and potentially allowing piracy doesn't.

It's all about money. They make money. Money equals more games.

"Gamers benefit when guys like geohot expand the functionality of their devices.'

How do gamers benefit from this? Does added functionality to a closed system add more fun to a game programmed for a closed system? What kind of added functionality did you have in mind? emulators? ripping dvds/cds? what kind of added functionality could possibly be added to a console that couldn't be added to a PC or isn't already there, without kicking up a s*** storm like this?

It's funny how you all say that it's your property and s***. Sure the PS3 itself is your property, but intellectual property is never your own. If you had created the PS3 you would sell it in exactly the same way Sony or any other game company does.
PornoPete
Posted 09:06pm 27/2/11
Yeah but Sony's IP is still in tact if you mod your PS3.

Sony telling you what you can and can't do with your own physical property is pretty invasive. It's almost like saying you can't sell a PS3 second hand.

What happens after the first sale is none of Sony's business.
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