Tell him to seriously take some time playing around in the unity and UDK suites.

Does he definitely want to be a programmer? Game creation isn't just about software development, that's kind of like saying the best and most viable way into the film-making industry is by learning how to operate a camera.

Consider artists, animators, level designers, voice actors, mo-cap etc, even QA, marketing and PR if you want to go that way. You don't have to learn a programming language if you want to be part of a team, even small indie studios generally have people wearing these various hats that can't necessarily perform the other functions at all.

In addition to what trog said, C# and the XNA framework is another option for indie game dev on windows and xbox360.

C# can ease you into C/C++ programming. There's a load of memory/buffer management bullshit to deal with when C/C++ that isn't related to what you're trying to achieve so C/C++ can be a little harsh when you're starting out green.

Python is another language that's easy on noobs, but still quite powerful. The pygame framework will set you on a path to game dev in that world.

that's kind of like saying the best and most viable way into the film-making industry is by learning how to operate a camera.

Everyone I know that is making a living in the film-industry got in through the camera department...

1. Tell him to seriously take some time playing around in the unity and UDK suites.

   
   Will definetly do. I do recall always hearing about UDK a matter of years ago and that was something I had mentioned to him. Thanks :D




2. C/C++ is the best place to start; most game engines etc will be using this - plus I reckon if you've masted C/C++ any other language will be a complete piece of cake. Java might also be worth a look from a purely Android perspective but if he's interested in 'real' games programming, C/C++ is the way to go.

   
   Yea I figured that much honestly. I assume he is interested in "real" games programming because he's not really all that interested in casual gaming - but I will bring it up.




3. If he has no programming background at all, I would be inclined to suggest starting with something simpler than C - maybe Perl or PHP

   
   He has zero experience although I do know PHP (ok) and Javascript (quite well) but my OOP leaves a lot to be desired, but I can defiently help with this too so that is a great idea.





4. Does he definitely want to be a programmer? Game creation isn't just about software development, that's kind of like saying the best and most viable way into the film-making industry is by learning how to operate a camera.

   
   Another awesome point which I hadn't even thought of. I mean I asked basically if he wanted to do the visuals or the "development" side and he wasn't keen 3d modelling or texturing etc. but I didnt even think to ask about animating (which I think he might like) and level design which I think he could also be keen on.




5. Then tell him to either go to TAFE or Uni, whichever he can get into. Do a diploma/degree and build a portfolio. Document everything.

   
   He is aiming to do that, but as he is just starting VCE it is a little early. I was especially suprised and amazed to see my old high school (now his) offering a games dev class, so he wants to start with this. I'm more about encouraging him to do work outside of school to really try and help get the upper hand.




6. I'm currently in my 2/3rd year of Game Development, doing Game Design, and I can tell you it's worth it. If he pushes forward and can make small little games, his already doing more then 70% of the people in my lectures. Just encourage him to work work work, and be passionate.

   
   He is definetly passionate about gaming, participating in gaming communities, making gaming vids etc so I'm confident passion wont be an issue. The hardest part is starting so I am trying to give him as much support and assistance as physically possible.




7. I notice everyone suggesting XNA is a pretty decent framework, but I see it as a bit of a dead end, especially if your goal is to get a job working for a bigger games company. If your goal is just to make your own small indie games then XNA will serve you well enough, otherwise, I'm throwing my vote in for Unity as well.

   
   I'm sure he's goal is to make it to AAA games, personally I'm a big fan of indie so for now I will *push* him in this direction, especially at this stage in his development. When he knows a bit more he can take it whichever direction he likes.

So a lot of props for Unity and I can honestly say I don't know anything about it. Can anyone recommend some good resources to help him get started with this? Either websites, books or online communities he can get involved with?


Thanks a lot for your help guys, seriously awesome responses. I really appreciate the help thus far.


Edit: Put into a list to make it easier to read, didn't realise how big my response was :S

Only other thing I can offer is a word of caution. When I went through and did the degree at Qantm (which I wouldn't recommend, its far far far too expensive these days for what you get), there were a lot of people in there at the start who wanted to make games because they love games. By the end of the first year, half those people were gone, by the end of the degree there was maybe 12 people who graduated on the programming side out of about 60 at the beginning, and out of those only a handful actually managed to turn it into a career.

Loving playing games is not the same as loving making games though. Its really hard work, pay is generally a lot less than you would get in other industries, and the hours are long. Make sure your brother knows what hes getting in for. Just cos he loves playing games, isn't necessarily a good reason to go into making games. You need to have a real passion for games, not just playing them, but wanting to know everything there is to know about them, and wanting to make them better. If hes the sort of person who watches the "Behind the scenes" type making of videos that come with some games to find out what went into the production of the game, or scribbles down designs for games of his own he wants to make, or plays a game and picks apart the mechanics and thinks of ways they could be improved, then hes on the right track. If he just thinks "Well playing games is fun, so making them must be fun too", then hes in for a very rude suprise.

Having said that, its still the best job I've ever had, even with the crappy pay and the long hours. Cos at the end of the day, if its your passion, then you're doing what you love, and all the shit in the world just fades away into the background when you're doing something that you truly love.

this could perhaps be the greatest qgl thread ever <3

yeah i bet pave
you might actually have been earning good money for the past 5 years if you hadn't!@

lols yeah because your average low level IT drone is earning balla cash

everything i've ever heard about web design is that it's a shit industry to get into and be successful in if you aren't pretty special at it

i'm not a creative person so engineering suites me a lot better

and i have far more earning potential in coming years than i'd guess the majority of your average web designers

last edited by paveway at 16:49:51 02/Aug/11

i remember when i wanted to get into web design/IT in grade 11/12
lolz boy am i glad i got over that fad

I am a freelance/contract web designer now and making great money and love the work I do... so I don't quite understand what you are talking about.

In addition to what trog said, C# and the XNA framework is another option for indie game dev on windows and xbox360.

C# can ease you into C/C++ programming. There's a load of memory/buffer management bullshit to deal with when C/C++ that isn't related to what you're trying to achieve so C/C++ can be a little harsh when you're starting out green.

Python is another language that's easy on noobs, but still quite powerful. The pygame framework will set you on a path to game dev in that world.

Actually yeh, good point. I always sort of mentally rule out C# because I HATE YOU SO MUCH .NET AND MICROSOFT but it's a pretty nice thing to ease yourself into, and probably actually even a little better than PHP because it doesn't come with so many warning labels and easy ways to make huge mistakes.

He has zero experience although I do know PHP (ok) and Javascript (quite well) but my OOP leaves a lot to be desired, but I can defiently help with this too so that is a great idea.

My vague memory is that the entirety of Doom was written in pure ANSI C so you can certainly get by without OOP! That said, I think to get a real job at a real company it'd be pretty hard without any OO knowledge :)

Dan's point about non-programming stuff is also spot on. Game development is a huge, multi-disciplinary field. Art, design, production, management, writing, testing, HR, etc, etc.

Only other thing I can offer is a word of caution. When I went through and did the degree at Qantm (which I wouldn't recommend, its far far far too expensive these days for what you get), there were a lot of people in there at the start who wanted to make games because they love games. By the end of the first year, half those people were gone, by the end of the degree there was maybe 12 people who graduated on the programming side out of about 60 at the beginning, and out of those only a handful actually managed to turn it into a career.

This. I did the QANTM games programming course in '02. I did reasonably well at it, but struggled to get a job. Nearly got employed at Infinite Interactive after making it through 3 rounds of interviews, but they ended up going with someone who was already living in Canberra.

In the end after seeing what has happened to the industry, im glad i didn't end up involved in it. Poor pay, long hours and a basically non-existant level of Job Security.

Tell him to do a B.IT at UQ/Griffith/QUT. I think they all offer a games development speciality, but at least if he ends up not liking it, he has the degree to fall back on.

last edited by Strik3r at 12:14:07 03/Aug/11

If he has no programming background at all, I would be inclined to suggest starting with something simpler than C - maybe Perl

hey!!!!

Not so much the actual job, but the environment talented people are forced to put up with.

This seems to be common problem with most creative jobs. You could replace game dev with art, writing, or music and its the same story. Only the most talented people make careers in these areas only to face poor pay and job security.

My vague memory is that the entirety of Doom was written in pure ANSI C so you can certainly get by without OOP

Doom was written back in the days when games wrote directly to the VGA framebuffer for graphics output though.
Khel notes that XNA is a bit of a dead end, by that analogy mode 13h is the dark alley where you get ganked and left in the gutter. These days DirectX and a lot of windowing toolkits rely heavily on OOP concepts so I think it's unavoidable unfortunately.

btw, what's so bad about .net and Microsoft? Side by side with current day iOS and Apple they're practically saints!