We five mobile gaming packs to giveaway that include a Sony Xperia Z3, a PS4, a mount for your Dualshock controller and a pop-up gaming tent!
Sony Xperia Z3 Mobile Gaming Giveaway Featuring a PS4!
AusGamers presents a hands-on report of the third major game in the 'World of' series from Wargaming, World of Tanks.
World of Warships Hands-On Preview
We take a look at the latest mobile gaming setup from GAEMS to see just how useful it is.
Tech Tuesday - GAEMS Vanguard Black Edition Review
We chat with 343 Industries about Halo 5: Guardians and the upcoming multiplayer beta!
343 Industries Talks Halo 5: Guardians Multiplayer Beta
Recommend DSLR for a newb (me) + Post Christmas sales...
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20953 posts
OK team, I'm keen to get a DSLR and take a photography course in 2013 to learn how to use the thing.

I've been looking at the usual suspects and there is pros and cons for Canon v Nikon, which are the two I'd be picking from.

Looking probably at the 650/600D with the lens kit or Nikon D3200 or D5100 with lens kits, I know the D3200 is newer then the 5100.

Obviously I'm trying to cash in on the current sales going about, the usual suspects JB, Good Guys and Harveys all have deals on at the moment. Along with Kogan - what are the pros/cons of Kogan I assume it's grey imports etc?

Anywhere else worth looking at i.e. specialist camera stores etc?

On the same note, has anyone managed to snag any decent bargains during the post Christmas sales??
01:30pm 28/12/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
01:30pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DoCZero
Melbourne, Victoria
148 posts
Hey heardy,

First of all - im a big Nikon fan - and I currently have a D5000. All the models you mentioned are perfect for entry level. More specifically i'd spend minimal money on the body - however save up and buy decent lenses. Kit lenses = pretty ordinary.

If you want a good starting lense , get something like a tamaron 24-75mm 2.8. Its a great go to lense for a lot of situations.

As far as shops, I bought a lot of my gear from www.topbuy.com.au they are awesome as far as cost - and a good benchmark for retailers.

(was gonna post a link with some of my photos - but picasa seems to be having issues)

=) GL
01:42pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9868 posts
Don't rule out the mirrorless options.

APS-C Sensor size (same as the DSLRs you are talking about)
Sony NEX (6 or 5R)
Fuji XE-1

micro 4/3
Olympus OM-D E-M5 // PEN E-PL5 // PEN E-PM2
Panasonic Lumix

For instance compare the size difference between a NEX-5R and a 600D
Front
Sony NEX-5R is 17% (22.3 mm) narrower and 41% (40.7 mm) shorter than Canon EOS Rebel T3i.
Sony NEX-5R is 51% (40.8 mm) thinner than Canon EOS Rebel T3i.
Sony NEX-5R [276 g] weights 52% (294 grams) less than Canon EOS Rebel T3i [570 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).

Top down view with a standard kit lens of similar focal lengths

I have a lot of Nikon stuff and some NEX stuff. The Nikon stuff is always heavier and more bulky, and I will never have the sort of money where you start to see the benefit of the huge range of glass Nikon has.

Lug a 70-200/2.8 around all day ... great images amazing lens... but they are forking heavy.
01:54pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9869 posts
If you want a good starting lense , get something like a tamaron 24-75mm 2.8. Its a great go to lense for a lot of situations.

Just be aware that 3rd party lenses generally speaking do not hold their value at resale.
Also ... they may have issues ... eg. pre 2004 Sigma stuff can play up on Nikon bodies post the 7000.
02:04pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21090 posts
get a 60D, then give me the software CD because I can't find mine :(
i'd spend minimal money on the body - however save up and buy decent lenses. Kit lenses = pretty ordinary.
While this is true for people who have learned the ins and outs, I reckon the kit lenses are good enough for someone who's just starting off.

Having said that, some of the cheaper end lens build quality can be pretty crap. My canon 17 - 85 doesn't even have any felt to keep dust out, left it sitting in my bag since I bought it, took it out and wtf? It was full of dust. I had to take it apart to clean the dust out. I get you pay more for L lenses to be sealed but come on canon, would it cost THAT much to put a felt ring around the telescoping parts to keep dust out?

I wouldn't go any camera that uses proprietary connectors for addons.

what are the pros/cons of Kogan I assume it's grey imports etc?

I don't know about cameras but when I was after a galaxy s3 the kogan ones only had a 1 year warranty whereas the ones you buy in d****mith or the telstra shops all have a 3 year warranty.
02:11pm 28/12/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20954 posts
awesome, thanks for the feedback guys

the mirrorless ones seem more for me, the reason I've held out for so long in getting a DSLR is due to size (I've wanted one fo a few years now) so if the mirrorless one has the same sized sensor but are considerably smaller and lighter that could be perfect for me.
02:14pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21091 posts
Yeah there's this "professional photographer" ad on the radio all the time up here. It goes on about why do people buy DSLR's and leave them on auto etc.

I was actually quite impressed with the pictures my ixus took. If I was going on holiday somewhere I'd probably just grab another ixus and a bunch of memory cards. No lenses to worry about dropping either.
02:21pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DoCZero
Melbourne, Victoria
149 posts
Yes there are pro's and cons with 3rd party lens.

The biggest pro - is cost

they are not the quality of nikon or canon. But the sigma / tamaron is like 90% of the quality for 50% of the price.

I run a 8-16 sigma / 25-75mm tamaron / 90mm macro tamaron and a 70-200 sigma. I have never had a problem with any, all were bought in the last 2 years.

I also have a 18-200mm nikon. Fantastic do all lense, but master of none (hence the 3rd party lenses).

for the 70-200 , in sigma from topbuy i paid just over 800$, if I was going to get nikon it would be $3000.

so back to topic.

Mirrorless are awesome - Sony Nex are kick ass for portability. but really you need to sum up - what you want. If you want do paid jobs - Dslr is the only way, if you want to holiday and happy snap - Nex is awesome. Ultimate control is DSLR - however it comes at a cost and you loose portability.
02:24pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
328 posts
+1 for www.topbuy.com.au

My recommendation: Canon 60D with the 15-85mm lens.

If you can get the 60D body from JB for around $720 with the 10% discount (it's listed at $806) then get that, then get the 15-85 lens from TopBuy. Otherwise buy them both from TopBuy.

I won't go into too much detail, but all you need to know right now is that you'll be amazed at what you can do with that combination! You'll have great stills and if you ever need video, you've got that too (1080p 30fps and 720p 60fps). I don't know anyone disappointed with the 60D.
02:29pm 28/12/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8683 posts
I've had the base model Nikon for a bout 5 years now (D40), it's been great and never had a problem with it.

As mentioned you are probably best off getting a cheaper body and better lens. The lens will make a bigger difference to your photos than the body will at this stage.

I'd have no hesitation in buying the current entry level nikon, what ever that is.
02:34pm 28/12/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1459 posts
Yeah don't get a DSLR for daily or adhoc photos - too much bulk to carry around. I only take my DSLR when I'm going somewhere for the purposes of taking photos. But its nice to have a DSLR as a hobby.
02:58pm 28/12/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7398 posts
Whatever you do, don't buy too much in one go at the start. Start off small, and cheap.

Learn how to use your camera and narrow down what style/subject of photography you are interested in. Then buy extra lenses or upgrade the body when there are specific limitations you want to overcome (e.g. lens f/ratio is too slow, more interested in high focal length shots rather than portraits, sensor is not sensitive enough, etc).
03:20pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21095 posts
Yeah don't get a DSLR for daily or adhoc photos - too much bulk to carry around. I only take my DSLR when I'm going somewhere for the purposes of taking photos. But its nice to have a DSLR as a hobby.

+1
03:39pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
329 posts
But if serious enough to take a photography course then get a DSLR.
03:42pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Hemerage
Brisbane, Queensland
15586 posts
It's not a real camera unless it weighs 2kg.
06:01pm 28/12/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5662 posts
If not a DSLR then what?

Noob question.
06:24pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9871 posts
But if serious enough to take a photography course then get a DSLR.

Compared to a mirrorless APS-C or micro 4/3 system ... why ?

The only real reason is quality and range of lenses right ?
And most people can't really afford the "good stuff".
06:32pm 28/12/12 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
3713 posts
If not a DSLR then what? Noob question.

PAS - point and shoot. Those little cams that slip in your pocket or handbag and take no effort to use.

What simul said.

These days my iPhone is good enough for party pics. I pack my Canon in my Lowepro back pack when I want to do some serious stuff. Which is not very often these days. I also need a course.

Heardy go see these guys for some touchy feely on rigs along with advice. Pretty good in QLD so hopefully the same in Sydney.
http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/
06:47pm 28/12/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5664 posts
What's something good that is in between a point and shoot and a DSLR?

I disagree that an Iphone is good enough. I'd like something that is decent enough to take up close pictures and also used for at parties. Mirrorless camera maybe?
08:08pm 28/12/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
589 posts
Sony RX100 if you are looking at a point and shoot. Largest sensor for a point and shoot and opens up to f/1.8 for some nice bokeh!

If looking for mirrorless I'd look at either the Fuji XE-1, Olympus OM-D or Sony NEX series. They are all pretty good cameras and there is starting to be a decent selection of lenses for each of those various eco-systems.

Probably best though to go to a camera store and have a bit of a touch and feel of each the cameras and see which is comfortable for you. I've got a few Nikons and prefer them over the Canons but each to their own.
09:22pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Protius
Brisbane, Queensland
4472 posts
Another vote here for a 60D. I've got one. Really they aren't THAT big and heavy to be carrying around just in case you want to take some photos. Definitely not something you'd take out to a nightclub or anything like that for taking duck face pictures.
10:20pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21098 posts
What's something good that is in between a point and shoot and a DSLR? I disagree that an Iphone is good enough. I'd like something that is decent enough to take up close pictures and also used for at parties. Mirrorless camera maybe?

The last thing you want to be doing at a party is waving a bigass camera around. Even a mirrorless one. Just get a compact point & shoot, lens folds up and you can put it in your pocket. Unless by party you don't mean teenage party, you mean adult dinner party where nothing exciting ever happens in which case whatever camera you can hold on to. I suggest a Hasselblad.

Another vote here for a 60D. I've got one. Really they aren't THAT big and heavy to be carrying around just in case you want to take some photos. Definitely not something you'd take out to a nightclub or anything like that for taking duck face pictures.

Dude, shut up. The flip out screen on the 60D is MADE for duckface pictures. Why else would the screen swivel round?
Jeez.

I wish the 5D had a flip out screen, I'd be all over that like a fly on a turd.
11:46pm 28/12/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
1349 posts
Nikon D40 newb signing in.
(ie I too should probably sit a course)

I did study a little photography in high school and Dad used to work as a cameraman, so the best advice I got early on was 'the rule of thirds' in terms of framing pics; but yeah, I should really get amongst it some more.

I bought my D40 second hand with a number of extra's, and in the last year went out and jumped on a tripod and better lens (the 18-55mm it came with was good for close up, well lit photography only really.) earlier this year (again snapped up a Nikon 55-300mm VR, which is only really usable for 20m+ shots.

I know there is a thread about 'digital asset'-ness, but yer; what do people recommend for picture management/storage etc?
I've got a few Windows PC's and a Mac, and kinda want something where I can store the pics (be in in a 'loose directory structure' or a full blown database) on a windows box on the network, and view/manipulate them from any device in the house.
EDIT: I'll take it to that thread, it's looking far better populated than it was when I checked it the first time.

In other news, I think I'm ready to step up to a new(er) body, so if anyone is intrigued or interested I've got a good condition Nikon D40 (which was recently professionally cleaned and is in excellent working order) with a few extras. PM if this catches anyone's fancy.
12:13am 29/12/12 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
2264 posts
If not a DSLR then what? Noob question.


There are plenty of cameras that fill the void between s***** pocket cameras and DSLR.

for example: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX40_HS/

. The combination of CMOS and DIGIC 5 also allow the SX40 HS to offer 1080p video at 24fps and faster continuous shooting at up to 10.3fps (for eight frames). Both are very welcome upgrades over its predecessor which only offered 720p video and 1.3fps continuous shooting. The SX40 HS also adds new slow motion movie effects with 120fps VGA and 240fps QVGA options. A selection of Creative Filters can also be applied live, including a miniature effect which also works on movies.

The 35x zoom may deliver the same 24-840mm equivalent range as its predecessor, but Canon's added Intelligent IS technology which automatically switches between different stabilisation modes to best suit the subject and conditions, whether it's normal handheld, panning, macro or tripod-based.


http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX40_HS/images/CanSX40HS_front_450.jpg


I have a sx30is which is going on 4 years old now and i have taken over 10,000 photos with it and it still works well. ALTHOUGH it has noticeable more noise in low light images now but i think thats because ive dropped it a few times and just general wear and tear.

last edited by Rdizz at 05:55:50 29/Dec/12
05:52am 29/12/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5665 posts
Thanks Rdizz. That looks like a decent camera that I guess you can get better at then maybe advance to something better.
10:00am 29/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7575 posts
Saw 1100D kits for something stupid like $350 the other day. It really is all in the lens. Everything depends on your budget.

FWIW, I own a 450D, 40D, 7D, and a myriad of lenses including 24-70 f/2.8L and 70-200 f/2.8L USM.
11:04am 29/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
330 posts
It really is all in the lens.

This is a myth, especially if you're looking at doing some video as well.
12:19pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21099 posts
I think he means you can spend millions on a body but a s*** lens is still going to get you s*** pictures.
12:25pm 29/12/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7399 posts
I think he means you can spend millions on a body but a s*** lens is still going to get you s*** pictures.

You can spend millions on a good lens but a s*** sensor is still going to get you s*** pictures ...
12:28pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21102 posts
I'm pretty sure a $10,000 lens isn't going to fit on an iphone. Your argument is void.



(yeah I realize there's adapters that do just that)
01:59pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Monkeez
Sydney, New South Wales
167 posts
Get a FujiFilm Finepix x100, I want one of those so bad.
03:14pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
11791 posts

As far as lenses, look at renting them. You can usually rent some really good lenses for around $50-100/week (or even less depending on who). It will give you access to lenses you don't want to fork out for initially.
03:24pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9873 posts
Get a FujiFilm Finepix x100, I want one of those so bad.

Yeah I did, but then I wondered why ?

It's aps-c, it's a boring focal length 22mm with the aps-c that's 35mm roughly.

On an aps-c I am thinking 35mm (50mm equiv) for walking shots, or 50 (85mm equiv) or longer even 135mm is not out of the question for portraits, but I use 50 alot for taking photos of my son. 22m slightly wider than normal ... boring. F2 isn't even that fast given it's a 22mm.
ie. Getting an out of focus area on a portrait will still be moderately hard work.

But I went and played with one in a camera store. Honestly after doing so I lost all interest when compared to micro 4/3, xe-1 or nex systems... It might have a quirky colour a bit like the old Fuji films, but everything else is not worth the price tag.

ony RX100 if you are looking at a point and shoot. Largest sensor for a point and shoot and opens up to f/1.8 for some nice bokeh!

As an owner of an RX100, no ...
It's 1.8 at a 28mm equiviliant.... By the time you get to a focal length where you might want a bokeh the DOF is quite large and the bokeh is not worth reviewing. (It does however focus pretty close for a pocket, which is exactly when you don't want a big aperture most of the time). Tho the creative mode seems to enhance this probably by front focusing maybe by software softening ... who knows ... I am going to go with magic.

Don't get me wrong great camera, but do not expect anything close to a DSLR or mirrorless system (even the Nikon 1 system which is the same size sensor). Little things like an inability to use any sort of filter/diopter remind me of what it it can never be.
Get it for what it is, an awesome (but expensive) compact point and shoot.


09:26pm 29/12/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
2058 posts
Kogan are great. I had a 5100 nikon faceplant the cement a week after I bought it; Kogan sent me a brand spanker from Hong Kong.
So their warranty is legit..
10:26pm 29/12/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
590 posts
Yeah I did, but then I wondered why ?

It's aps-c, it's a boring focal length 22mm with the aps-c that's 35mm roughly.

On an aps-c I am thinking 35mm (50mm equiv) for walking shots, or 50 (85mm equiv) or longer even 135mm is not out of the question for portraits, but I use 50 alot for taking photos of my son. 22m slightly wider than normal ... boring. F2 isn't even that fast given it's a 22mm.
ie. Getting an out of focus area on a portrait will still be moderately hard work.


I'm not sure how a particular focal length can be boring. It all depends on how you compose your shots. I've had an X100 for about 15 months now and think it's a fantastic camera. Apart from the autofocus which it seems to be a Fuji X-series quirk/trait I like everything else about the camera. It is fantastic in low light, I can get usable shots up to ISO6400 and it is nice and compact for travelling.

Being a wider lens, shallow depth of field is going to be harder than say on a 50mm or above but I think you can still get some nice shallow depth of field on it... you just need to stand a little bit closer.

A few months ago I attended a friend's wedding and took the X100 and I don't think the shots that I got from it were boring because of the focal length of the lens on the X100. There is a variety of wide and close up shots - it just depended on my composition of those shots.

http://willisl.im/2012/08/19/tersius-maximus-and-his-new-bride-leah/

As an owner of an RX100, no ...


I agree that it doesn't compare to a mirrorless camera but as you mentioned, for a point and shoot it is pretty good.
11:10pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7577 posts
I think he means you can spend millions on a body but a s*** lens is still going to get you s*** pictures.

If you can only afford a 70-200 f/2.8 but not a 7D, that's understandable, and there's nothing wrong with using that kind of lens on a 650D. But don't expect the same results if you buy a 1D Mk4 and think a 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens is sufficient.
If on the other hand you're sporting a $200k Hassleblad or Carl Zeiss lens and you're trying to use a 650D, well then you sir deserve a gold d*** medal.

Yes, it should be very clear that I'm saying if your budget is tight and you have to skimp somewhere, a good lens will produce better results than a good body.
11:33pm 29/12/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8684 posts
Kogan are great. I had a 5100 nikon faceplant the cement a week after I bought it; Kogan sent me a brand spanker from Hong Kong.
So their warranty is legit..


How is that a warranty claim?
10:54am 30/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9877 posts
I'm not sure how a particular focal length can be boring.

I am glad you like it ... I didn't. As long as you (and Ken Rockwell) like it who cares.
It's not crazy wide say under 12mm.
Hell most kit lenses are 16 or 18mm.
But It's wider than normal. Normal at least feels normal.

I like the super wides, they are "fun" I wish I owned a Sigma 8-16mm, I only own a Tokina 11-16mm, but it's still fun as long as the people (or things) you are shooting are ok with you being right up in their face (buy a UV filter so you can wipe off the animal drool and baby fingers). In saying that the 11-16mm is right up there with my 70-200/2.8 as a favourite lens, it would actually be my favourite, but I do use the 70-200 a lot more. I have toyed with buying a Russian (Kiev) medium format to go even wider, but who wants to pay for developing anymore!

I know 11 to 8 mm sounds like nothing but at that end of the focal lengths the difference is huge.

But back to the original topic... 22mm is boring imo.

And forgetting it's focal length for a second the control interface on the X100 felt really odd. I mean shooting Nikon I find Sony very similar (in saying that the Sony is very inconsistent from model to model), Canon a bit different but manageable, the X100 felt like I needed to read the manual before even touching it (tho I hear they did a firmware update that made it better ?).

How is that a warranty claim?

Kogan is legit, dranged isn't.

On the topic of Grey Sellers, I have dealt with Cameras Direct, DDP, DWI, Digital Rev. All were faster and more helpful then Teds or Camera House. But I am not sure I'd bother with Cameras Direct again. DWI and Digital Rev are insanely faster and seem to get things to my door faster (from Hong Kong) then stores in OZ ... which is dumb
09:02pm 30/12/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
591 posts
And forgetting it's focal length for a second the control interface on the X100 felt really odd. I mean shooting Nikon I find Sony very similar (in saying that the Sony is very inconsistent from model to model), Canon a bit different but manageable, the X100 felt like I needed to read the manual before even touching it (tho I hear they did a firmware update that made it better ?).


There were some initial quirks with the first firmware revisions where it would take around 30 seconds just to start up but since the last couple of updates that is all fixed and it's as fast as any other camera when you turn it on.

I haven't found the X100 control interface to be too much different or confusing. I have setup some of the function buttons so that I have access to ISO and turning on the ND filter. I find I rarely have to go into the menu system when I'm shooting with it. The only things that I need to change while shooting is easily accessible without having to get into the menus.
09:54pm 30/12/12 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8068 posts
Canon va Nikon is a religious war, but seems to be leaning towards Nikon

Buy your body direct from overseas and any lenses grey import (so the importer risks postage damage)
10:05pm 30/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7579 posts
Allahu Canon.
10:28pm 30/12/12 Permalink
Linker
Brisbane, Queensland
1722 posts
The guys at Digital Rev also have a great, sometimes hilarious web show doing some reviews and comparisons of many camera's.

I just watched their Xmas Rap....awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqArbgMayA&feature=share&list=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWtV5vbNpeH_A
12:40am 31/12/12 Permalink
Hemerage
Brisbane, Queensland
15587 posts
Digital Rev reviews are good, no bulls*** -- and comical at times :)

Nikon vs Canon, make sure you go hold a few instore, and see what feels nicer in your hands (if you got the DSLR route)


I'm taking my gear more places now, which is good :)

Currently rocking a Canon 5D MKII + Sigma 50 f1.4, Canon 17-40 f4, Canon 24-105 f4, Sigma 150mm macro 2.8 (+3 flashes, 80cm & 120cm octo-brollys, 60x90cm soft-box)
11:29am 31/12/12 Permalink
Hemerage
Brisbane, Queensland
15588 posts
http://willisl.im/2012/08/19/tersius-maximus-and-his-new-bride-leah/

Not sure if you did it in post.... but they lack a lot of contrast?
Which is the difference between cheap and expensive lenses (even Canon vs Zeiss)
11:32am 31/12/12 Permalink
KungFuCamel
Brisbane, Queensland
592 posts
Not sure if you did it in post.... but they lack a lot of contrast?


It was done in post - I've been using the VSCO film presets of late> it's not to everyone's taste but I like the 'look' it gives.
12:30pm 31/12/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
12:30pm 31/12/12 Permalink
AusGamers Forums
Show: per page
1
This thread is archived and cannot be replied to.