Follow on for our second entry in the on-going review of World of Warcraft's fifth expansion, Warlords of Draenor
World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor: Day 8 - Garrisons
We chat with Blizzard's Hearthstone team on all the juicy info about the first expansion to highly-successful card game Hearthstone
Hearthstone: Goblins vs Gnomes Developer Interview
We take a nostalgic look back at one of the best N64 games to ever be made, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Throwback Thursday - The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Downgrading to Windows XP
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8927 posts
I love Windows 7 but I don't love the fact that it can't seem to run a lot of my older games. Such as:

Quake 3 Engine games (SOF2, RTCW, FAKK2)
Doom 3 Engine games
Powerslide

So I am looking at going back to XP for gaming thrills. My system is quite old.

Athlon64 3700+
1GB RAM (upgrading to 2GB)
ATI 1GB 4670

Has anyone else decided to go back in time?
10:36am 17/04/12 Permalink
system
Internet
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10:36am 17/04/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4824 posts
nope havent had any problems playing any games on my win 7 machine
10:39am 17/04/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15319 posts
If anything, go for dual bootable OS's
10:41am 17/04/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12798 posts
trog has been dreaming for this thread
10:43am 17/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12263 posts
Can't play any Doom3 engine games on Windows 7? Really?
trog has been dreaming for this thread

I chortled heartily.
10:43am 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8928 posts
I have dual boot at the moment but my system is too old to support my USB keyboard in the menu :[
10:44am 17/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12264 posts
Can't you just get a cheap PS/2 keyboard or whatever they used a million years ago when WindowsXP was a boy?
10:45am 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8929 posts
I like my USB keyboard.
10:54am 17/04/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15320 posts
I have dual boot at the moment but my system is too old to support my USB keyboard in the menu
We talking older than a five year old computer? maybe check what keyboard settings are in the bios.
10:57am 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8930 posts
Yeah it's like six years old. I will have another look though.
10:58am 17/04/12 Permalink
Linker
Brisbane, Queensland
1601 posts
Surely you could run xp on a vm and the games would still fly along with those specs?
10:58am 17/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12265 posts
11:02am 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8931 posts
No go scuzzy. I'll just get a USB->PS2 adapter.
11:06am 17/04/12 Permalink
tspec
Melbourne, Victoria
3472 posts
You shouldn't have any trouble running Doom3 for Quake3 engine based games in Windows7. I think I did run into some trouble with Powerslide on Win7, I should give it another shot since I still have the original disc. Props for even remembering Powerslide though, I loved that game, it's a shame Ratbag went under.
11:21am 17/04/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8464 posts
I still use XP at work and one a desktop at home.

I have Windows 7 on my sons desktop and a few laptops at home.

XP is better.

The end.
11:29am 17/04/12 Permalink
Outlaw
Gold Coast, Queensland
1883 posts
XP signing in.
11:44am 17/04/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5383 posts
No i haven't but this thread PC specs are worse than about 8 machines i threw into a bin yesterday.

WoW.
11:45am 17/04/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12799 posts
people who think xp is better remind me of that scene in aliens where ripley is frantically driving that vehicle out of a building and hicks is like 'RIPLEY ITS OVER YOURE JUST GRINDING METAL'

let it go
11:55am 17/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12266 posts
F*** you Jim now I have to watch that again.
12:02pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Outlaw
Gold Coast, Queensland
1885 posts
Probably because XP is the OS of choice for the systems that never upgraded to PCIE. So you'll see a lot of them around.
12:02pm 17/04/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16603 posts
oh you early adopters and your windows 7 HA-HA

i imagine that is what trog is thinking
12:03pm 17/04/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12849 posts
+1 for Virtual Machine idea
there are heaps of excellent/free VM platforms out there, namely Virtual Box from Oracle and VMWare Desktop, Citrix etc
12:03pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
18825 posts
I stayed with XP during Vista, but Windows 7 is pretty nice, I had no qualms about upgrading to it when it came out.

Possibly a stupid question, but have you tried running the stuff that doesn't work in Windows 7, in compatibility mode? If you right click on a shortcut or executable, and go to the compatibility tab, theres a bunch of different options you can play with to help older stuff run.
12:08pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4686 posts
12:08pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Pharcyde
Kilos
Brisbane, Queensland
5078 posts
people who think xp is better remind me of that scene in aliens where ripley is frantically driving that vehicle out of a building and hicks is like 'RIPLEY ITS OVER YOURE JUST GRINDING METAL'


Hahahahah this is f*****g excellent.
12:10pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8932 posts
Haha Jim

Yeah I have tried that Khel.
12:15pm 17/04/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6775 posts
ease back! ripley, ease back! :D

i still run xp on one of my 2 home pcs... it's not better than 7 ;p

it's use-able enough that i cbf'd changing it to 7 tho.
12:18pm 17/04/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2589 posts
why not try seeing if win 8 will play it, no point downgrading if the new OS (in testing, and free atm) will do it!


as for all XP lovers, all i'm going to say is win 3.1.1 was the best, it was all downhill after that
03:51pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8934 posts
My PC is probably too s*** to run Windows 8.
04:17pm 17/04/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18666 posts
can't you get some sort of XP simulator inside windows7?
04:19pm 17/04/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2593 posts
My PC is probably too s*** to run Windows 8.


is it equal or better than

Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster

RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)

Hard disk space: 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)

Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device or higher
04:23pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
19726 posts
I'd be using XP right now except I have 16 gig of ram to handle large s*** and I lack the 64 bit version of XP, plus I hear it's s****** than a pileof dogs*** anyway so I'm kind of stuck with w7x64.

Haven't had any trouble with quake 3 itself, sometimes you have to disable DEP for the q3 executable but after that it's fine. Hell, I even play q3 on my mac so it can't be all bad.
04:30pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8935 posts
Well yes copuis.

It is too late, I ordered a copy of XP off eBay and I'm going to dual boot. Why wait around for an OS that may or may not work with some games and not others when I can get a cheap version of XP now and do my thing?
04:45pm 17/04/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3477 posts
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/default.aspx

tried microsoft virtual pc?

seems like it is made for this kind of situation.
05:25pm 17/04/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2594 posts
dais, win 8 is out (in test format) for free now
05:32pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8937 posts
tried microsoft virtual pc?


I went to the download page but it says I am not eligible because I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium and not Professional, etc.

copuis I cbf trying Windows 8. Thanks anyway yo.
05:38pm 17/04/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2595 posts
i guess on the plus side, you have gone the right way, and gotten a legit copy! (shame no one had a key that wasn't been used)
05:42pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8938 posts
Yeah but it is OEM which is technically illegal. Even though I built the system.
05:45pm 17/04/12 Permalink
do0b
Brisbane, Queensland
4256 posts
doubt your toaster would run a vm worth gaming on anyway
06:12pm 17/04/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
557 posts
than about 8 machines i threw into a bin yesterday.


I said gawddayum, are they retrievable?! I could put them to good use/a good home for sure, and I would buy you a bottle of your fav poison and pick them up for your troubles kind sir! :)
06:17pm 17/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8955 posts
I formatted and installed XP last night. Great stuff, it runs all my old games including Powerslide. Though unfortunately I get some serious video corruption with that one, don't know what's going on there.

Very happy to be able to run those games.
01:23pm 20/04/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16618 posts
lawl
01:28pm 20/04/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36074 posts
FWIW, I only run XP because it still does everything I need. The only thing I can't do that I sort of want to is play Battlefield 3, but I don't want to play it enough to upgrade just yet. I'm on the verge of buying a new PC soon which will have Win7 on it.

I don't think it's better than Win7. I'm sure it's not, from what I've heard. But I, like a significant proportion of the PC using world, is still using it because it ain't broke.
01:46pm 20/04/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
934 posts
...But I, like a significant proportion of the PC using world...


I do wonder how much of that 'world' as you put it, actually has a 'choice' in what o/s they use...

I know that any govt department member using win xp doesn't have a choice in the matter, and whilst they certainly represent the majority in Australia, I know that SFA of it's userbase actually has a say in the matter.

XP deserves a quick death, unlike the horrible s***e that came before it.
01:54pm 20/04/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9445 posts
What's so bad about XP Mike?
01:58pm 20/04/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36075 posts
I do wonder how much of that 'world' as you put it, actually has a 'choice' in what o/s they use...

I know that any govt department member using win xp doesn't have a choice in the matter, and whilst they certainly represent the majority in Australia, I know that SFA of it's userbase actually has a say in the matter.
Oh yeh, no doubt it's stacks, if not the vast majority. Most of the comments I read about it are from big enterprises where they don't want to have to go to the expense of upgrading, because it's already working. Once it reaches end of support it sounds like many of them will migrate over.

MS finally have competition in the OS market - themselves, from 10 years ago! The ironing is delicious.
01:59pm 20/04/12 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
732 posts
1GB RAM (upgrading to 2GB)


I might be a snob, but I really lol'd at this.
03:30pm 20/04/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9448 posts
Up until recently I was using 1 GB of ram, playing games, editing video, not really a problem. Never really occurred to me that it might not be enough.
Then I noticed my s***** little netbook had twice that amount, and started paying attention to those threads on specs. Now I have 4GB, slightly better, but slow stuff will always be slow.
03:39pm 20/04/12 Permalink
SwissCM
Gold Coast, Queensland
167 posts
I've never had problems with any idtech 3 or 4 games. Powerslide even runs provided you use a Glide emulator, I used dgvoodoo.
03:59pm 20/04/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
8957 posts
That dgvoodoo works great, thanks man.
04:11pm 20/04/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
565 posts
XP deserves a quick death, unlike the horrible s***e that came before it.


What's so bad about XP Mike?


I think he was heralding xp and thus affording it the luxury of a swift exit when it's time as opposed to it's predecessors which would seem to deserve an elongated painful ending due to their shortcomings. :P
05:09pm 20/04/12 Permalink
sCOOBY
Brisbane, Queensland
4472 posts
+1 XP was so much easier to use and logical than stupid 7. i'v gone to great lengths to make my win7 look and feel like good old XP, but unfortunately theres still some fixed retarded features that cant be returned to the good old xp style.
05:15pm 20/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12313 posts
+1 XP was so much easier to use and logical than stupid 7. i'v gone to great lengths to make my win7 look and feel like good old XP, but unfortunately theres still some fixed retarded features that cant be returned to the good old xp style.

http://i.imgur.com/NsktZ.gif
05:27pm 20/04/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
568 posts
Last time I saw you, you had mad growth Hogfather, what's going awn in that gif!? :p
05:28pm 20/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12315 posts
Too hot in summer for a beard in Cairns :(
05:33pm 20/04/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16620 posts
+1 XP was so much easier to use and logical than stupid 7. i'v gone to great lengths to make my win7 look and feel like good old XP, but unfortunately theres still some fixed retarded features that cant be returned to the good old xp style.


that isnt a problem with windows 7, that is a user problem

stop living in the past
06:26pm 20/04/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18686 posts
xp is like wearing hessian boxers; win7 is like wearing brand new cotton boxers.
06:30pm 20/04/12 Permalink
Kimbo
Melbourne, Victoria
484 posts
Just IMHO... going out in a limb in this post.

Mind you I run Windows 7 (x32 -- not running 64 bit until the Ivy Bridge comes down in price and things get a bit more formalized.)

What I liked about Windows XP was around Service Pack 2 the modularity you could take away services and put services back.

What I miss from Windows XP is that simple stuff where you could downsize the actual install to under 500 megabytes and it ran like a freakin' BOSS with the likes of 50 Megabytes of RAM. Sure you can still do that in Windows 7 but it isn't the same.

Lowest I've managed to get Windows 7 downsized with the likes of Vlite and http://www.rt7lite.com/ is about 2.4 to 2.6 gigabytes. Sure hard drive space is so big now, but what about all the people that have iphones or how about that new samsung galaxy that has limited processing power. I hijacked a friends Samsung Galaxy and as an experiment loaded on a slightly experimental 'cut down version' of Windows XP. The phone loved it.

The only other thing I don't really like about the UAC in Windows 7 is that its fairly difficult or hard to set up accounting priviledges so I can have permissions for different programs. If you want the password and account option you have to literally dig into all the files and literally GO IN THE DAMN thing and set the option. For what its worth the default UAC is a horrid experiment in "Would you like to run this program?" instead of "Would you like me to create an system level account for that program?" which should be the alternative method to keeping security broken up. Under services, handles and more importantly OWNERS of different SYSTEM accounts

You can do the same with XP although it is slightly lesser trouble with http://sudown.sourceforge.net/ - SuDown for Windows XP and in some ways Windows 7 implements "SuDown" with the UAC, but it is like an abhorring experiment if you'd tried to hook up your cousin with your 2nd generation cousin and they fell for each other. UAC is 'sort of great' but then again 'sort of not'.

The SuperFetch is all right and the conversion of a lot of the core parts of the operating system to a 'service level entry' has sped things up a bit. But other than that Windows 7 is still trying to be wannabe of XP.

Recently I heard that Windows 8 had gotten rid of the start button all together. But I reckon that would be better is something like Gizmo for Windows 7 (http://arainia.com/software/gizmo/) which is basically an all in one widget that sits on the side (or where ever you want it on the desktop) and no don't get me started on Windows 7 Gadgets. No, no and no. Also I don't like this pinning junk to the task bar as well that is another horrid abomination.

Finally even though they changed the Task Manager I still keep coming back to all my utils by Mark Russovich like:
Process Explorer - technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653
Autoruns - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902
Process Monitor - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902
TCPView - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897437

Also don't get me started on that damn new Control Panel. Hiding crap behind things instead of having it out in the open or a direct link to the one option that I'd want to access. The New God Mode

I still find myself coming back to all the old utilities like TCP Optimizer, Process Explorer. Why? Because the new wonder version of Windows 7 lacks 'specific information' about processes or why things crashed that is 'out in the open', 'shows the path of the file your accessing'. Just I feel that sometimes Windows 7 wants to hide away hard drive paths and file names etc. Also don't forget to mention not showing the file path in file explorer like XP did. Although the drop down folder option in explorer is a semi improvement.

Also in regards to Windows 7 Services I always now have to run stuff like this to get the most out of my PC because there is so much crap going on in the 'service department' of Windows 7 just like in Windows XP. I would of thought M$ would of made service profiles or something I mean FFFFFFFU seriously. Optimization much?

Before I forget... EXPLORER (Yes the new one).
http://www.explorerplusplus.com/ - better replacement

Oh also another replacement for the taskbar:
http://download.cnet.com/7-Taskbar-Tweaker/3000-2072_4-10973305.html
The main site is down:
http://rammichael.com/?proj=29

To finally top it off Windows 8 is going to get that DAMN APP SHOP like Apple has and I really don't like that idea.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/windows-8-set-for-byod-microsoft-339336429.htm - IM NOT F@#$ING KIDDING.

Maybe I'm just getting older but there is like stuff I miss.
02:57pm 23/04/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
5796 posts
Gizmo is actually kind of interesting lookin, might give that a run.

I've had a fair few problems with the upgrade from XP to 7, mostly to do with the complete removal of the old search options (for some reason I seem to be searching files a lot), and am still pissy at a few bits and pieces, but have... surrendered, and will say that it only hurts me as a way of showing its love.
03:06pm 23/04/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12324 posts
Sorry Kimbo, you lost me where you were talking about putting WindowsXP on a smartphone.

This ONLY WORKS because the smartphone is new and XP is so old. Try and put WindowsXP on a 'smartphone' of its era and get back to me on how that works for ya.
03:11pm 23/04/12 Permalink
$ack
Brisbane, Queensland
1487 posts
I still look for Add/Remove Programs in win7 control panel -_-
03:11pm 23/04/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
5797 posts
I still look for Add/Remove Programs in win7 control panel -_-

Heh yeah that's another one that gets me, and for some reason typing 'add' in the start menu search doesn't find it, but 'add remove' does.
03:15pm 23/04/12 Permalink
Kimbo
Melbourne, Victoria
485 posts
Sorry Kimbo, you lost me where you were talking about putting WindowsXP on a smartphone.

This ONLY WORKS because the smartphone is new and XP is so old. Try and put WindowsXP on a 'smartphone' of its era and get back to me on how that works for ya.


The short end -- downsize ability and customizable BOOT DISKS/BOOT ISOs which is where we're headed currently, especially with the likes of https://www.virtualbox.org/ and eventually getting a hypervisor into the very boot loader is going to pretty bad ass for the home user even this http://www.mokafive.com/.

How about gaming on virtualized environments? Everyone is getting like 16 gigs of ram and everything. That is very good for virtualization or they're trying to start services with 'cloud gaming' but I don't see cloud gaming sort taking of just yet cause you might want a good part of internet pipeline to do that. Although for things like tablet gaming (which is already going on) I can see that happening for cloud gaming <> tablet gaming.
03:26pm 23/04/12 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
9630 posts
Is Kimbo actually Trog/Pinky's other/OTHER/forum account ?

I know the Qgl forum started off this way guys but jeeeeze..

if you keep this up - the next time Khel asks us all to give our time for an indy game project it might just pull together. 'can't have that :P

last edited by koopz at 18:45:51 23/Apr/12
06:43pm 23/04/12 Permalink
maryusdemetry
Sydney, New South Wales
13 posts
you can have both OS perfectly
09:01am 14/07/12 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
1285 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
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09:10am 14/07/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5475 posts

if you keep this up - the next time Khel asks us all to give our time for an indy game project it might just pull together. 'can't have that :P

Has this happend?
01:23pm 14/07/12 Permalink
predat0r
Germany
424 posts
Have you considered simply using Windows XP mode.

It is available with Professional, Ultimate and I guess depending on how you sourced your copy Enterprise.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/windows-xp-mode

It should do the job.

The other possibility is to install XP on a vhd and dual boot without going to the effort of repartitioning. You will get a minor performance degradation in terms of disk access, but for most of your XP era games it would not really be noticeable.
01:32pm 14/07/12 Permalink
FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4301 posts
Guys this is a really old thread.
01:52pm 14/07/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5066 posts
That's ok, it's a really old operating system.
01:53pm 14/07/12 Permalink
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