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Mass shooting at Batman premiere
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9918 posts
Breaking news...
A masked gunman has shot dead at least 14 people and wounded up to 50 others at a premiere showing of the new Batman movie in Colorado.

A man wearing body armour and a gas mask began shooting during the screening at a mall in the Denver suburb of Aurora.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-20/live-blog-aurora-shooting/4144558

Bit close to reality for all of us probably
06:37pm 20/07/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
06:37pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13486 posts
That's the problemw with guns - they are too destructive. One crazy can do far too much damage in a crowd.
06:40pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34013 posts
sunrise fb feed leads the way again dom
06:40pm 20/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9919 posts
yeah I saw that spook, problem is sunrise said 10 people, news.com.au doubles the wow factor
06:45pm 20/07/12 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
4830 posts
06:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Basket
Gold Coast, Queensland
808 posts
Going to see Batman at 8:30 thank god I dont live in ERRRRRRMERICA
06:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Ickus
Perth, Western Australia
271 posts
I'm off to the USA tomorrow... I don't think I will go see Batman while there.
06:52pm 20/07/12 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
7860 posts
07:06pm 20/07/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2702 posts
Quick, blame the movie!
07:08pm 20/07/12 Permalink
kappa
Brisbane, Queensland
1907 posts
Wow this is totally f***ed :(
07:19pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6232 posts
And so many Americans say that their gun culture increases liberty. :/
07:39pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9795 posts
My cousin lives in Denver, going to try and find out a bit more... crazies!
07:40pm 20/07/12 Permalink
koopz
Brisbane, Queensland
9685 posts
clearly Mac based online video games were to blame.. the shooter rang someone prior to the event who owned an iPhone


last edited by koopz at 19:42:34 20/Jul/12
07:41pm 20/07/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9121 posts
You mean nobody was armed in the Cinema ?




07:53pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6233 posts
You mean nobody was armed in the Cinema ?

Once a dozen people have been shot, have more shooting. Gee, if only there was some other solution, perhaps one which other first world nations had tried out.
07:57pm 20/07/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9124 posts


taken just after, you see one guy with blood on him
08:10pm 20/07/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18997 posts
that's messed up.
08:11pm 20/07/12 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
276 posts
Once a dozen people have been shot, have more shooting. Gee, if only there was some other solution, perhaps one which other first world nations had tried out.


Because criminals and crazies never shoot people in those first-world countries, right?
08:22pm 20/07/12 Permalink
funky
Brisbane, Queensland
1696 posts
hey faceman, someone was armed in the cinema, the f*****g psycho who shot 50+ people

you f*****g moron
08:22pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19598 posts
Denver shot people at a screening of Batman? Always knew that guy was trouble
08:33pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7206 posts
And so many Americans say that their gun culture increases liberty. :/

But it does. It increases your freedom to be able to walk in to a crowded cinema and kill 14 people.
08:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6234 posts
Because criminals and crazies never shoot people in those first-world countries, right?

Not really, not like in the US with its constant school/uni campus/cinema/sniper massacre problems. America has the 5th highest rate of murders involving guns in the world, and has a several-times higher murder rate than the rest of the first world.

See how the rest of the first world is green? See how Canada, landlocked and literally right next door, doesn't have the same problem?
http://thinkpress.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/10_11_world_murder_rates.jpg
09:27pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7207 posts
Comparing any country to the rest of the world is a pretty s***** statistic. You could be less dramatic by saying that it's just above average.
09:34pm 20/07/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9125 posts
Nerfy = QGLs Michael Moore

09:37pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
2365 posts
Pretty sure its safe to be Moore then Resident F***head.
09:39pm 20/07/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
983 posts
Does that chart mean the US has a similar rate of murders to Mexico? Surely not...?!
09:39pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6235 posts
Homicide rate per 100,000

United States: 4.55
Australia: 1.57
Canada: 1.58
England: 1.45
Denmark: 1.09
Singapore: 0.92
Germany: 1.17
New Zealand: 1.17

That is not just above average for first world nations, that is 300-500%.
09:41pm 20/07/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18998 posts
Nerfy I am pretty that is attributable to drug use. But go on with your hysteria.
09:47pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6236 posts
Um, how would that make guns and the high murder rates which they enable any better?
09:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9731 posts
Nerfy I am pretty that is attributable to drug use. But go on with your hysteria.

So amsterdamn is gun murder central ... right ?
09:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18999 posts
Because drug related crime will happen regardless of the guns. Drug related crime is violent and property related.

These freakout Anders Brevik style shootings that happen once every 5 years are anomalies.

75% of US murders must be gun related i.e. the first 1% non then 1-4% must be guns right? otherwise you are talking through your ass as per usual.

last edited by infi at 21:57:50 20/Jul/12
09:53pm 20/07/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19000 posts
US cities are overrun with illicit drugs and organised crime so what the f*** has Amsterdam got to do with anything.
09:56pm 20/07/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9126 posts
Pretty sure its safe to be Moore then Resident F***head.


You mean after he's Moore he becomes the Resident F***head
You Failed
10:06pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9796 posts
Jesus, that cinema is just up the street from them and they got tickets to go today instead... fark. Too many crazies!!
10:09pm 20/07/12 Permalink
carson
Gippsland, Victoria
1598 posts
America needs stricter gun control laws. There's no two ways about it.
10:11pm 20/07/12 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3927 posts
all this talk about gun crime stats peaked my interest.. so i did a quick search and found this intresting article from the guardian..

However, the figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 600 murders per year. In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms

Read the rest here

note this article is focused on the US, doesn't compare countries
i should also note, i don't support gun control, i believe if someone wants to kill someone a knife, car, punch, fire, etc.. are just as deadly.

last edited by TufNuT at 22:17:49 20/Jul/12
10:12pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6237 posts
Because drug related crime will happen regardless of the guns. Drug related crime is violent and property related.

Drug crime may happen with or without guns (whether it should even be considered a crime is a current point of debate), but I'm concerned about the murders made a thousand times easier by guns.

These freakout Anders Brevik style shootings that happen once every 5 years are anomalies.

Wat? From the last few years -

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17

Not to mention this one. and there's many more too, including all the school shootings. They're largely on university campuses, in schools, in theatres, in shopping centres, etc. Nothing to do with drugs, not a single one is ok. I don't even know what your argument is supposed to be, aside from "there could be more." The Anders Brevik massacre used guns too.

75% of US murders must be gun related i.e. the first 1% non then 1-4% must be guns right? otherwise you are talking through your ass as per usual.last edited by infi at 21:57:50 20/Jul/12

I don't actually know what you're asking here?
10:17pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1190 posts
Got a good mate living in Denver. He works for Newmont Gold Mining Company and head office is Denver. Just SMS'ed him to see if he is okay, no response yet but it's early in the morning. Waiting to hear.
10:18pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9797 posts
Holy f*** the shooter lives on their street!!! She is freaking out!!
10:18pm 20/07/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
9621 posts
i believe if someone wants to kill someone a knife, car, punch, fire, etc.. are just as deadly.


You can't kill 20 people with a knife in 60 seconds. It's not just the availability of guns in America that is a problem, but how powerful they can be too.
10:22pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6238 posts
i don't support gun control, i believe if someone wants to kill someone a knife, car, punch, fire, etc.. are just as deadly.last edited by TufNuT at 22:17:49 20/Jul/12

Think of it in terms of the unique capabilities of guns, like not supporting nuclear weapon control on the rational that if people wanted to wipe out a city and make the land an uninhabitable wasteland, they'd find a way. Guns have a unique function and enable far easier killing, and especially snap-decisions (successful suicides are way way higher amongst gun owners, despite all "trying to find a way").
10:25pm 20/07/12 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3928 posts
You can't kill 20 people with a knife in 60 seconds. It's not just the availability of guns in America that is a problem, but how powerful they can be too.


no but you can with a fire.. i wonder how many would have walked out of that he someone set fire to the cinema or used a molotov c***tail, or gun powder (fireworks) + pipe.. point is, there are many ways to do that kind of damage if someone really wanted to..

successful suicides are way way higher amongst gun owners


guess jumping of a bridge/high place is really hard.. or cutting ones wrists, or rope + chair..

last edited by TufNuT at 22:28:52 20/Jul/12

last edited by TufNuT at 22:29:24 20/Jul/12
10:26pm 20/07/12 Permalink
d^
Melbourne, Victoria
1111 posts
Someone on reddit was at the Cinema watching the movie when it happened, pretty frightening stuff.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wv4q2/someone_came_into_our_theater_at_the_midnight/

America needs stricter gun control laws. There's no two ways about it.


This.
10:27pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6239 posts
guess jumping of a bridge/hugh place is really hard.. or cutting ones wrists, or rope + chair.. last edited by TufNuT at 22:28:52 20/Jul/12

It is compared to a gun. There's plenty of time to think your way out of it, you have to set things up, and may not die instantly and call for help. A gun at home just enables "having a major depressive moment? Well, no time for it to pass as it normally would, pick up a gun while you're down and end it."

A lot of people with depression report that they could never have a gun in their own home for this reason. Let alone having to be in a costly arms race with with criminals on the off chance that you can fire back before they hit you while spraying a room.
10:31pm 20/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15554 posts
a****** killed a baby at point blank
10:34pm 20/07/12 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3929 posts
Let alone having to be in a costly arms race with with criminals on the off chance that you can fire back before they hit you while spraying a room.


i would like to refer you to this thread..
10:34pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6240 posts
i would like to refer you to this thread..

As discussed in that thread, the kids weren't even armed. It would have been a shame if they died for a minor robbery. And if they did have a gun, that was the source of the initial problem isn't it? It's like people pointing to minority christians advocating against homosexual discrimination laws, and saying "see, because of christianity they might get rights" - when it's only f*****g because of the mainstream christians that they don't have them in the first place. /rage /ok taking a break
10:36pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
20271 posts
Once a dozen people have been shot, have more shooting. Gee, if only there was some other solution, perhaps one which other first world nations had tried out.

You mean like we have? Ban guns? Oh yeah coz that worked. Hey criminals, how about handing over your guns? No? Ok. So now we sit defenceless in our homes while armed people come shoot us for 10bux. Not to mention if someone breaks into our homes and cuts themselves on the broken glass they broke while entering they can sue us. Oh yeah, sure use our f*****g idiotic country as an example, go ahead.
10:38pm 20/07/12 Permalink
d^
Melbourne, Victoria
1112 posts
10:38pm 20/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15555 posts
guy almost dies. posts on reddit asap.

love it

also lol at this comment

So how was the movie?


last edited by ravn0s at 22:42:40 20/Jul/12
10:41pm 20/07/12 Permalink
TufNuT
I like eel pie
Brisbane, Queensland
3931 posts
/rage /ok taking a break

Breath Nerfy.. Breath.. go have a cigarette... or smoke some bath salts i here thats the s***.. :P
10:42pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6241 posts
You mean like we have? Ban guns? Oh yeah coz that worked. Hey criminals, how about handing over your guns? No? Ok. So now we sit defenceless in our homes while armed people come shoot us for 10bux. Not to mention if someone breaks into our homes and cuts themselves on the broken glass they broke while entering they can sue us. Oh yeah, sure use our f*****g idiotic country as an example, go ahead.

Yeah our "idiotic" country where your hypothetical situation doesn't happen, while their real situations involving innocent people being killed does keep happening. An imaginary Australia is cited before reality now? Have a look at this chart, before saying that most guns used in crime come from a back market.

I wonder who said that......

I did. I don't blame him for reacting like that in the heat of the moment when he thought that they had a gun, I just think that neither should have been armed in the first place.
10:42pm 20/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15556 posts
but they did have a gun. it just didn't work he the old codger wouldn't have known. he saw a gun and just acted.
10:44pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
20727 posts
Wow, that's f*****g messed up. What type of jerkface would do that. And shooting a baby in the head at point blank must make him feel special.
10:48pm 20/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15557 posts
i would actually like to know why you would take a baby to a midnight screening of a movie.
10:50pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6242 posts
but they did have a gun. it just didn't work he the old codger wouldn't have known. he saw a gun and just acted.

Yeah that's why I can't blame him for reacting the way that he did, but in the end it would have been unfortunate if he succeeded, because they didn't have a real gun and were only using intimidation, they weren't really going to kill anybody. He would have been justified in shooting them given what he knew, but it's lucky that it didn't turn out that way, because robbery doesn't deserve execution.
10:54pm 20/07/12 Permalink
carson
Gippsland, Victoria
1599 posts
You mean like we have? Ban guns? Oh yeah coz that worked. Hey criminals, how about handing over your guns? No? Ok. So now we sit defenceless in our homes while armed people come shoot us for 10bux. Not to mention if someone breaks into our homes and cuts themselves on the broken glass they broke while entering they can sue us. Oh yeah, sure use our f*****g idiotic country as an example, go ahead.

Ahaha WHAT?! This screams of sensationalist rhetoric that has no source but heaps of wild claims.

Not sure if troll or not. Is there any source that if a criminal hurts themselves they can sue? Because I'm pretty sure it's one of those old wives tales.

The fact of the matter is that better regulation and stricter gun control laws work. I don't see how anyone can debate otherwise. If there are less guns in peoples hands/houses/purses/whatever, logic would suggest that gun crimes would be reduced.
10:57pm 20/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9922 posts
Is there any source that if a criminal hurts themselves they can sue? Because I'm pretty sure it's one of those old wives tales.


Yes this done happen, I learnt about it in legal studies.
11:04pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1116 posts
they weren't really going to kill anybody.
The law doesn't distinguish between a fake fire arm used to 'intimidate' or a real firearm.
So why the should anybody else?

Here's how it goes son.
If someone points a gun at you, you're going to s*** a brick like its real whether its real or an unmarked replica. The intent is there to make it seem real, the threat is real the emotions evoked are real and the damage done is all very real bar the physical.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and saying actions should have been different on knowledge gained AFTER an event is a fools argument unless that reflection can be used in future circumstances (in this case it cannot as one could never be sure whether the gun functions or not).

So saying it would be a shame if they died because of the guns status is actually quite naive and not thinking the situation through as it occured at that time.

That isn't to say I agree either the old guy or the kids should have had anything resembling a gun. Just stating your angle of argument is really silly.
11:06pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6543 posts
Not to mention if someone breaks into our homes and cuts themselves on the broken glass they broke while entering they can sue us.
Sure they can sue you, but they won't win in court. Just because you read a news headline "Burglar sues victim" doesn't mean they won the lawsuit.
11:09pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6243 posts
Mephz, did you read a single thing that I said?

I said several times that he was totally justified in the way that he reacted because he can't have known whether the gun was real or not.

Here's how it goes son.

No. Here's how it goes, learn to read.
11:11pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1117 posts
but in the end it would have been unfortunate if he succeeded,
You mean like reading this line right?

It would not have been any more or less fortunate than if the gun was real and broken or fake or completely functioning.

Everything about that gun was very real to every person there, damage can be done in other forms other than to the pure physical self.
11:18pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Some Fat Bastard
Brisbane, Queensland
1191 posts
My mate sms'ed me back and is okay.
11:23pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6244 posts
I don't think that you understand my meaning. I'm not saying that the guy was in the wrong.

Take an example that you see somebody loudly crashing around in your home, you shoot them (arguably fair enough, can't take chances). Turns out it was a guy who used to live there who is drunk and just stumbled into the wrong place. Your response wasn't unjustified, but it's still unfortunate that it happened. Do you understand? You can do what's right at the time, and it can still be an unfortunate outcome, not a "you did wrong" outcome. (Although it seems that we're better off without guns as they seem to f*** up more than they help).
11:24pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1118 posts
Pulling arguments other people have attempted from previous debates that don't fit the scenario is just silly.

The drunk guy didn't have a handgun in his hand waving it in my face in a perfectly lit room and demanding my property did he?

You are describing escalation of violence (your scenario) vs. equal force (this scenario)

Stick to the subject matter at hand please.

A man carrying gun and threatening people with it whether its real or not carries the same penalty by the law and carries the same intent to the person being assailed by it.
Anything that comes their way is deserving because people reacting to that scenario are doing so with equal force to what is being displayed. Thus it is not unfortunate at all.

More to the point that I DO agree with you is that guns should only be by laws such as how we have it here in Au. Multiple Licences for differing weapons and a bolt action rifle or breakable action shotgun all kept separately etc.

Impulsive assaults or suicides with a firearm are lessened by fewer in circulation and also if they are being stored appropriately it takes some time to get a rifle out, restore its action and load it etc.

Interesting in AU you don't need a licence for a bow though.

last edited by Mephz at 23:34:18 20/Jul/12
11:29pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6245 posts
You just aren't understanding what I was saying and responding to something way off base. I haven't disagreed once that the guy was completely justified in what he did.
11:36pm 20/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1119 posts
because robbery doesn't deserve execution.
???But they were threatening murder/execution themselves by means of handgun, this was how they were enforcing compliance of their demands to perform the robbery.
12:03am 21/07/12 Permalink
Taipan
USA
3774 posts
Nerfy since you posted the stats relating to fire arm murders per 100,000 people for those countries would you mind digging up the rate of firearm ownership in ... oh i dont know Canada New Zealand and Australia? Throw in the US just for good measure as a comparison.

While your at it would mind listing the firearm restrictions in place in Canada Australia and NZ? I picked those three countries out because they are all fairly similar culturally and their fire arm murder rates are pretty close to each other.

My bet is going to be that rate of ownership and level of restrictions has f*** all bearing on the rate of murders involving fire arms. Of course a community with zero fire arms is not likely to have any murders involving them but that community isnt likely to exist anywhere on the planet ever. My view is that fire arm related murders are more tied to cultural issues than anything else and that blaming gun ownership and access to guns is a cheap way to simplistic out in response to a very complexed problem.

Btw this post is in no way a crack at you or anything you posted, i just think those stats need some context.
01:01am 21/07/12 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
1962 posts
Here in australia you can't own a gun that will kill someone from 30 feet.

But you can own a gun that will kill someone from 2km away.

Laws, why have them?
01:31am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6246 posts
Nerfy since you posted the stats relating to fire arm murders per 100,000 people for those countries would you mind digging up the rate of firearm ownership in ... oh i dont know Canada New Zealand and Australia? Throw in the US just for good measure as a comparison.
the US leads by far in number of guns per capita.

While your at it would mind listing the firearm restrictions in place in Canada Australia and NZ? I picked those three countries out because they are all fairly similar culturally and their fire arm murder rates are pretty close to each other.

You need licenses and background checks, unlike much of the US. (e.g. in the state which this shooting took place in, you don't need a license or registration, shops must simply keep a record of who they sold guns to).

My bet is going to be that rate of ownership and level of restrictions has f*** all bearing on the rate of murders involving fire arms.

In retrospect you probably should have done a minimal amount of investigation before making that bet. :P

My view is that fire arm related murders are more tied to cultural issues than anything else and that blaming gun ownership

Firearm deaths are 100% tied to the presence of firearms though. Whether or not people use them is another question, but society must be ready for guns first before considering them, rather than having them before considering whether society is ready.
01:32am 21/07/12 Permalink
Totenkopf
Melbourne, Victoria
486 posts
So im not the only one hating the super heroes movies then.
01:49am 21/07/12 Permalink
Taipan
USA
3775 posts
Ok thanks.

So let me see if I have this right.

The USA has a fire arm related murder rate of 4.55 with a gun ownership rate of 88 guns per 100 people or 88,000 guns per 100,000 people. Correct me if I am wrong but that means for every 19,340 guns there is a murder?

Now Australia with all of its much tighter restrictions has a gun ownership rate of 15 per 100 people or 15,000 guns per 100,000 people and a murder rate of 1.57. Which in turn should mean we have 1 murder for every 9,554 guns in the community.

That can't be right surely? Tighter restrictions on ownership and type of fire arm that can be legally held should surely mean a lower murder rate attributed to guns right? Man perhaps my maths is way off here since generally it usually suck plus its 4 in the morning and I just woke up.

But if my maths is right it seems guns cause more s*** here than they do in the US since it takes less than 10,000 of the to result in a human death here while taking more than 19,000 of them to do the same in the US. Yep guns are pretty clearly the bad guy here right?

Just for futher interest working out things in the same way for Canada and New Zealand they come out with this result.

Canada has 1 murder with a firearm for every 19,493.

New Zealand has 1 murder with a firearm for every 19,316

So to sum this up.

Australia 1 murder per 9,554 guns
NZ 1 murder per 19,316 guns
USA 1 murder per 19,340 guns
Canada 1 murder per 19,493 guns

Someone check that for me plz. For restrictions and denial of access being the obvious way to reduce firearm related deaths I must of f***ed my maths to come out with such a huge discrepancy.
04:16am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6248 posts
People tend to own multiple guns in the US from what I've seen, whereas I doubt that is quite as prevalent in places like Australia. You guys seem way too keen to deny the blindly obvious fact that killing weapons kill, and that loose control around killing weapons is a very stupid thing.
04:23am 21/07/12 Permalink
Taipan
USA
3776 posts
You know what youre saying might hold up a little better if it wasnt for the fact that the bulk of shootings in this country are commited by criminals doing criminal s***. The fact remains that given the numbers i just put up restricting the general public to the point australia has doesnt do s*** to curb the problem because stupid f**** that shouldnt have them still get them.

Even if we had zero legal ownership in australia we would still have d*******s shooting each other.
05:34am 21/07/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34018 posts
luls infi, you are the fox news of qgl.

comes into gun massacre thread, says drugs are the porblem, not guns.
05:39am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6249 posts
Even if we had zero legal ownership in australia we would still have d*******s shooting each other.

Less death is better, and as posted earlier regarding the chart for US convicted criminals, most of them did not use blackmarket weapons. A lot of them used other people's harmless legally acquired guns though.
05:45am 21/07/12 Permalink
Taipan
USA
3777 posts
Find a chart saying the same thing for Australia. Even recently after the spate of shootings in Sydney the cops pointed out that only a small portion of guns used to commit crimes were legally owned and of those the bulk of them were stolen. Which clearly points to the fact that criminals will get guns reguardless of the law even on a remote island like the one we live on.

We have tough restrictions yet we still have more murders per firearm than the US there is no getting around that. Its not the legal owners that are the problem, they never really have been.
06:05am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6250 posts
Frak me, only a gun fetishist could take "less murders by gun per capita" and twist it around to say that guns are reflected better in the place with far more gun murders per capita.

Its not the legal owners that are the problem, they never really have been.

Ok. So you deny the statistics provided and assert a fantasy? Great. The chart clearly showed that more guns used in crime came from legal ownership than the black market. Only something like 9% were from the black market.

Even if it were true, illegal weapons are - surprise surprise - primarily stolen from those who legally own them.

Theft is cited as an important source of illegal firearms in countries such as the United States (Kleck & Wang 2009; Pierce et al. 2004; Wright & Rossi 1994) and inferred in other jurisdictions such as England and Wales (Hales, Lewis & Silverstone 2006) and within the European Union (Spapens 2007).

Around three-quarters of thefts were from private residential premises, comprised the majority of firearms stolen in this period, most likely a reflection of the prevalence of these firearms among the Australian firearm-owning community rather than a necessary preference for such models. Firearms from just 12–14 percent of reported theft incidents between 2004–05 and 2008–09 were recovered by police in the 12 months following the report of the theft (Borzycki & Mouzos 2007; Bricknell 2011, 2009, 2008a; Bricknell & Mouzos 2007), indicating a sizeable, annual contribution of stolen firearms to the illicit market.

Similarly dated assessments of firearm trafficking (Alpers & Twyford 2003; Mouzos 1999) supported the opinion that the illicit market was not organised and supply was predominantly from ‘domestic leakage’ of legal firearms, rather than wholesale illegal importation.


TL;DR - Those illegal guns who you put all the blame on, separate from "legal" guns, were just legal guns which were stolen. And that's despite the fact that most crime isn't even performed using a black market gun in the US.

Studies in Australia and overseas have indicated that in countries where regulation of firearm ownership exists, criminals often obtain firearms through theft of legally held firearms.
06:59am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3031 posts
taipan, it just mean our guns are more better at shooting

nerfy, less does not always mean better, education, and identifying people with issues are going to do in the long run

there are many thoughts on gun crime, but at the end of the day if people know how to use them as the tool they are (lets not get into the whole weapon tool thing again i was right last time, that doesn't change) then they will not be used as the weapon they can be (as a side, an uncle out west who has two guns, a 303 for game shooting, and a shotgun for snake has the problem of a cat plague, and doesn't want to shoot them with the 303, or the shot gun, as it is too messy and violent, but can't have a smaller rifle because it is too much paperwork, and he doesn't have a valid reason outside of this rare event)

also, nerfy look at the sort of people that have used guns on people (outside of a war) it is always someone who has issues, be that the thought of everyone out to get them, they had been bullied and they see it as a way to get back, or they have some misguided ideal, which more often than not there had been signs that there were issues but not body wanted to help

also, the removal of guns on mass just moves the method of violence, once people used to hold up post office with any manner of guns, people rarely got shot or killed, now it is more likely to be a knife, syringe filled with blood, both of which require the robber to be closer for the threat to be effected, and increasing the chance of injury (if some told me to stay put in the corner while they had a gun, I would, they can shoot from a distance, and both parties know this, which a knife they have to keep you closer, and that can lead to confusion with requests and stabbings, likewise with the syringe)

we are at risk of swinging the rule so far one way that it is going to create more of a problem, hell the reactions from people at some stuff causes more issues, 30 years ago (before my time tho) it was common for cadets to jump of the train, with their rifle out in the open, while people smoke. try carrying a rifle bag (no rifle) on the train, and see the panic, and terror that it causes (and no doubt someone would be injured) all over the thought of a gun (pretty sure it is only the last few years that QR changed it from not been able to carry ammo with the gun to outright banning all guns) now light a smoke nerfy?, which one has been blamed on more deaths? (passive and otherwise)

Nerfy while your in your banning the issue not the cause mood, I think we should ban all nut growing plants, because they could kill someone, or at least limited it alot, and cows, we should ban cow ownership, I mean beef, butter, milk, all killers when miss managed, best not educate people, just ban them, there is after all no reason to eat beef, or drink milk, or have butter, oh, and cane sugar
07:12am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6251 posts
also, nerfy look at the sort of people that have used guns on people (outside of a war) it is always someone who has issues, be that the thought of everyone out to get them, they had been bullied and they see it as a way to get back, or they have some misguided ideal, which more often than not there had been signs that there were issues but not body wanted to help

... So? Did unstable people suddenly disappear and we no longer need to worry about the danger which unstable people become once combined with guns?

all over the thought of a gun

A reaction which has been earned by what guns have done.

now light a smoke nerfy?, which one has been blamed on more deaths? (passive and otherwise)

Both of these should be dealt with, you can't say "look, an unrelated problem!" and be saying anything meaningful. Besides, smoking is something that one does to themselves, not others.

Nerfy while your in your banning the issue not the cause mood

While you are in a strawmanning mood you may as well say that I suggested gassing jews too.

we should ban cow ownership, I mean beef, butter, milk, all killers when miss managed, best not educate people, just ban them, there is after all no reason to eat beef, or drink milk, or have butter, oh, and cane sugar

This is the worst argument in the history of any argument ever used anywhere about anything. If you can't see the difference between doing something to yourself, and easily enabling becoming a lethal danger to others, then I hope that you don't have access to guns.
07:20am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3032 posts
also, nerfy stop using US s*** to push fact in AU,

there are alot of black market guns in this country that
A) were stolen over 10 years ago (before the clamping down of where you can secure your weapon) the US doesn't (to my knowledge) have the same level of restrictions
B) are illegal and have never been legally own by someone in this country
C) are made from parts that have been imported, or stolen (eg, if someone stole my rifle, but not the bolt, or ammo, they dont have a working gun, but all crime are tracked back to that weapon, so using those figures might give someone the impression that the gun gets stolen, then used, when in fact there are a few more steps to get the gun working again (which would involve more theft or illegal importation of gun parts)
D) if the case is C more than likely that if the rifle is stolen from one place, and the bolt another, they would be recorded as two gun thefts, while only one gun is the net result (or more likely a few gun thefts for parts to result in a fewer number of working guns)
07:27am 21/07/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3356 posts
I hate it when children are mixed up in horrible situations, but I really have to wonder wtf they were even doing at a midnight screening:

Jordan told the paper one girl was struck in the cheek and others in the stomach, including a girl who looked to be around nine years old.


news.com.au:

The police chief said 10 victims died at the theatre and four at area hospitals. At least 24 people were being treated at Denver area hospitals.
07:30am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6252 posts
also, nerfy stop using US s*** to push fact in AU,

We're talking about a US massacre and why their system isn't wanted here, despite a few vocally crying for it. It was others who kept bringing up Australia, saying that we were idiotic for having gun laws.

there are alot of black market guns in this country that

You're just pulling all of this out of your ass, I provided several studies. Bah humbug at you "reality is whatever I speculatively want it to be" people.
07:35am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3033 posts
nerfy, unstable people are getting less and less help, because our social make up has changed,

also, in the last few decades there has been a change in how some people react, 80 years ago, if something bad happened someone might be more likely to take their own life. now it seems that because we are all empowered that someone needs to be blamed, (and thus punished) so a violent reaction is more likely

banning guns and reacting to them as you do it not healthy. (it isn't an attack on you, but really it isn't healthy) they are a tool and they have their place, it is (shooting) also a viable sport and skill,

do they have a place in the city. No, i'm not a f*****g moron I went to school with hunter, and picked on him (to the point that I am a little ashamed, however some of his action did bring about my actions) however i'm sure if he had access to a weapon (other than rocks) that allowed distance I would have been on the receiving end

I still feel that education about guns, and some limited training in handling (thus giving an understanding) and safety would go along way to calming people down (the reactions of fear cause a heightened reaction in the gunman, and can be the trigger for the shooting to start, where if people were calm, then not only would the shooting be less effective, if at all, there is also more of a chance that the person maybe consoled and calmed downed)

the old saying, guns dont kill people, people kill people,

nerfy the facts are guns have a place, gun owners need rights, and they are a useful part of this country, we have alot of feral animals that need to be control, and they do more damage to this land than years of farming would

it is also a sport,

and a skill
07:44am 21/07/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
20728 posts
Love the Courier Mail headline for this. Their Darkest Night. Shouldn't laugh but that's hilarious.
07:45am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3034 posts
nerfy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-27/authorities-target-illegal-handgun-trade/3976404
cover both side (being that some are postal, and other guns have been stolen (and on the blackmarket for YEARS)

but as it is only an ABC news piece i'm sure you'll find only the things you support to be true, and ignore the other facts

also, when they throw figures like X amount of guns stolen, those guns are not always stolen because they are going to be used in crime (other than theft of the gun) or sold on the black market

any gun (working or not, including older collector items) stolen will be recorded as a stolen gun, it only paint part of the picture

it is like speeding, if you crash your car doing 50 in a 70 zone the cause can be speed, (thus inflating the crashes caused by speeding figures) the reason being that if your car as legal, but balding tyres, and it is pissing down rain, and your not drunk, it comes down to the fact that you were going fast than it was safe, therefore speeding,

if a gun is stolen, (regardless of it's state or even if it is whole) it is recorded as a gun theft nothing more,
07:53am 21/07/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
838 posts
These freakout Anders Brevik style shootings that happen once every 5 years are anomalies.


Just cause Keanu Reaves had lot's of guns in the best movie of all time doesn't mean he is to blame, mm k!? :)

Also, horrific event, so many repercussions. :(

*Edit - Added more content


last edited by Jc_23 at 07:54:57 21/Jul/12
07:53am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6253 posts
nerfy, unstable people are getting less and less help, because our social make up has changed,

also, in the last few decades there has been a change in how some people react, 80 years ago, if something bad happened someone might be more likely to take their own life. now it seems that because we are all empowered that someone needs to be blamed, (and thus punished) so a violent reaction is more likely

Le sigh, gun people. You really don't understand the "don't pull uncited speculative s*** out of your ass as facts" thing don't you?

banning guns and reacting to them as you do it not healthy.

You repetitively saying that I said anything about banning guns when I keep explaining that I haven't, is less healthy for me.

I'm sorry that I have a reaction to your fetishized killing machines which matches the reality of what they do in the real world. Next we can talk about the merits of each having personal nuclear silos and say "We'll work on society after, we're just losing liberty while we can't have nuclear silos now."

nerfyhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-27/authorities-target-illegal-handgun-trade/3976404cover both side (being that some are postal, and other guns have been stolen (and on the blackmarket for YEARS)but as it is only an ABC news piece i'm sure you'll find only the things you support to be true, and ignore the other facts

Wat? That says exactly what I was saying, that historically most guns used in crime have come into circulation from legal ownership first. The police quote only said that importation is maybe now starting to also become an issue.
07:55am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3035 posts
you might want to re-read that,

it isn't as clear cut came from a legal owner, therefore all guns are bad stance, most of those guns came from owners doing the right thing, getting the gun deactivated, then the gun was stolen, and reactivated. yet you blame the owners somehow

also, they are not fetishized killing machines, yes I have a gun, on the wall, and I have it because it was my grandfathers at Tobruk, i also come from a military family and that gun means alot, (it alot has slag down the barrel and the bolt is welded shut)

my weapon on choice is sword, (I have lots of those, and would be happy to show you) being that i was a re-enactor, and the only gun I myself have owned (and and was usable) was a brown bess,

quick nerfy, cars kill people too, they also may or maynot cause climate warming/change, oh whats that, do be silly, cars are useful? and they have a place.....well so do guns, just because you fail to understand their uses (yes killing is the use, but what they are used to kill is what makes them useful) we should ban them all


one question, if there were no guns (outside of the ADF) what will it be like, police wouldn't have a need to carry them, or vets, or farmers,

so, if a horse becomes lame, we should beat it to death?
a zoo animal escapes, and tears thru streets, again, maybe try and run it over, injury it and trap it somehow, then lethal injection?
wild pigs are best controlled with?, a dog finding it, then it is a battle of the fittest, I know we will bred bigger meaner dogs to tackle that problem (after all dogs never killed anyone)

what you fail to see it that i'm saying lets not ban guns, lets work on society, and fixing the issue that cause such events, while you spout broad figures that don't show the true facts (because truth is they can only guess) and say ban the tool used in the result

then claim that "gun people" are all defending fetishized killing machines, and if we do it my way, we will all have personal nuclear silos, get real nerfy, that is a little rich, and really shows you fail to read and get the point (which i know can be hard with my grammar skills) but to ague that i'm a nut because I think education and training is more harmful than banning is laughable
08:23am 21/07/12 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3206 posts
Guns are made to kill. People shouldn't be allowed to own guns unless they a) want to hunt and b) pass regular psych evaluations. The end.
08:37am 21/07/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9798 posts
Some more news, apparently the shooter has his entire apartment boobie trapped with explosives. Que the specialist.
08:43am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3036 posts
or require them for work

like vets,

farmers

horse trainers

(narrow view thinking that they are only used for hunting, which is a mistake many people seem to be making)

or they are collectible, there are alot of very pretty guns out there, (most older than 150years) where they do border on artwork,

or they have historical value, like a sten gun, not pretty, no real use outside of the army, but a valuable bit of our history, (however under tight control and usage orders)

they are apart of our world, and a part of our history, to not understand that, we that would be sad,
08:47am 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3037 posts
Some more news, apparently the shooter has his entire apartment boobie trapped with explosives. Que the specialist.



dude must really hate nerds
08:47am 21/07/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9799 posts
dude must really hate nerds


The guy was studying Nueroscience but dropped out last month, irony++
08:51am 21/07/12 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5262 posts
09:08am 21/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1120 posts
AU gun laws are perfectly fine. Seriously it takes months and months (and months!) to acquire your first rifle. That's after safety courses are mandatory to even apply.
You can't even go for a handgun within the first 12 months after that and then there is the courses and process again.

Plus then you have to belong to a club or a valid reason (proof of cattle farmer for example).

Someone going through all that is more likely a law abiding citizen they're more likely to comply with storage laws which renders the firearm more useless than a household brick as a weapon until you reassemble the action which everything should be stored separately in a safe bolted to the foundations of a permanent structure.
Impulsivity or theft? If someone can steal it and then crack open the safe they almost deserve the thing! (not literally) but my point is opportunistic theft of a firearm being stored appropriately would be impossible. And if they are organised enough to steal either the safe or break into it then s*** there was probably easier ways to obtain a gun anyway.

USA gun laws are terrible, accessibility is too easy.
09:13am 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6254 posts
but my point is opportunistic theft of a firearm being stored appropriately would be impossible. And if they are organised enough to steal either the safe or break into it then s*** there was probably easier ways to obtain a gun anyway.

Did you read the earlier links? Hundreds are stolen annually, very few are recovered.

USA gun laws are terrible, accessibility is too easy.

Yeah this is the only point that I really cared about, as people (like faceman and others) get all uppity about Australia not being like the superior USA in our gun freedoms giving us freedom such as the freedom of those who received freedom in this event and the many there like it.
09:23am 21/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15558 posts
this is the guy. apparently he was dressed up to look like the joker

http://i.imgur.com/m3ql5.jpg
09:29am 21/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7208 posts
US gun laws are based on "if the government stops doing what it's supposed to, we should be allowed to either fill the gap or overthrow them".
They weren't ever intended to allow you to protect yourself if you're getting robbed or held up, they were intended for of a foreign army invaded (eg, the British), the people could form an army and repel them.

Instead, people have allowed themselves to become what they have today.

Meanwhile, the US has the highest funded military in the world.
09:31am 21/07/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7151 posts
From newsdotcomdotau:
Movie giant AMC Theatres says it will no longer be allowing people to wear costumes or face-covering masks into its theatres.

Don't worry guys, the cinema has found a way to prevent future shootings!

last edited by parabol at 09:44:07 21/Jul/12
09:42am 21/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7209 posts
Sigh. You font walk
In to a packed venue, do this, and expect not to be caught. When was the last time a mass shooting resulted in no arrests or the shooter dead?
09:47am 21/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9923 posts
Aurora is home to an air force base and the pentagon is saying military personnel are among the wounded and dead.
09:49am 21/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1121 posts
Did you read the earlier links? Hundreds are stolen annually, very few are recovered.
WTF son.

The data from your own chart is from the United States.

Australia and United States law for storage I imagine is vastly different.

I commented that Australian laws and Australian storage laws are entirely appropriate and acceptable if abided by (and I had prior pointed out the difficulty of obtaining legally).
Why you would comment then that most are stolen and quote an American data compiled chart is beyond me.

You have some irrational fear of firearms it seems to me. Unless you've had one pointed at you or someone you know shot, then whilst you live here in Australia I'm not sure I get it your fear.

Our gun laws and storage laws are great. (except I can't have a .50 but that's another issue)

A safe that is dynabolted to solid concrete foundations is going nowhere. It would take you ages and a lot of noise even with the appropriate gear to get that sucker out of it. Cutting into the safe isn't going to happen either anytime soon with the appropriate gear. (see where this is going regarding theft being near impossible or probably just easier to obtain a gun elsewhere).
The guns bolt must be removed and/or action broken.

You can do some more reading:
http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/storage/howStoreYrWeaponFirearms.htm

Walk softly and carry a big gun. (Preferably an M82A1)

last edited by Mephz at 09:59:11 21/Jul/12
09:55am 21/07/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36355 posts
US gun laws are based on "if the government stops doing what it's supposed to, we should be allowed to either fill the gap or overthrow them".
As I understand it there's some debate over whether the 2nd Amendment meant citizens to be able to own weapons, or citizens that are part of a militia.

As I understand it the courts have so far decided its the former, which I think is unfortunate for all, and they could certainly still get the spirit of the 2nd Amendment by enforcing the militia requirement.

Anyway, this is yet another tragedy in a country that has a long love affair with the right of its citizens to own weapons, even at the cost of the occasional terrible event like this.
From newsdotcomdotau:

Don't worry guys, the cinema has found a way to prevent future shootings!last edited by parabol at 09:44:07 21/Jul/12
yeh pretty laughable, especially because CNN are reporting that he walked into the cinema, left by a rear door, which he propped open, and then returned that way.

The almost truly terrifying thing is that he was, allegedly, dressed like the Joker. Better than a character in Call of Duty, but not a hell of a lot better.
10:00am 21/07/12 Permalink
HurricaneJim
Brisbane, Queensland
1201 posts
We have tough restrictions yet we still have more murders per firearm than the US there is no getting around that. Its not the legal owners that are the problem, they never really have been.


Taipan, if gun ownership in Australia was 1 in 100k you would still end up with the same problem. What you have proven though is Australians are better marksmen. Or if guns are used in a murder, Australians are more successful than Americans. I think we can agree that guns are well designed for the purpose of killing.

The real question is whether tight gun control removes the chances of unbalanced people from perpetrating multiple murders with guns. Since gun control started here how many Hoddle St, Kogarah or Port Arthur style multiple murders have occurred in Australia? Since the same date how many have occurred in the USA? I think it is quite easy to prove that gun control does prevent the nut jobs from going on a spree.

It could also be said that since we've closed down the funny farms multiple murders had increased until the advent of tight gun controls. So really the problem lies with the psychos and not the guns nor normal people. We've taken the institutions away which actually protected us from multiple murders. Is there a case for Institutions or improved psychological care? I believe there is.

The easy solution is gun control and we are quite apt at doing the easy thing. It won't solve gun murders but it does stop mass murders by psycho nut jobs with guns.
10:08am 21/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7210 posts
As I understand it there's some debate over whether the 2nd Amendment meant citizens to be able to own weapons, or citizens that are part of a militia.

Absolutely, and now people can't even agree on what was intended by what was written hundreds of years ago. My understanding it was so that they can form an organised militia... but not be vigilantes etc.

10:10am 21/07/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2089 posts
You mean nobody was armed in the Cinema ?
Brilliant FaceMan. 70+ people shot? Damn, if only their citizens had more guns!


HurricaneJim wins the thread imo.


Also:
He was also reportedly addicted to videogame Guitar Hero.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that he did this because of video games.
10:14am 21/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12981 posts
yeh I love facemans usual imaginary scenario where everything is crystal clear and calm at the location, allowing everyone else there to quickly identify and shoot the criminal before anyone innocent is killed

back to reality... can you imagine the carnage if everyone there had weapons - it'd be 10 times worse with guns going off left right and centre, no-one knowing who is an aggressor and who isn't, and people just shooting like s*** everywhere hoping they don't die
10:36am 21/07/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9113 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: stop the stupid speculation
Send Private Message
10:38am 21/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9924 posts
Followup to my post about military people being among the victims

- 1 sailor from the Naval Cyber Command unit injured
- 1 Navy sailor is unaccounted for
- 2 USAF airmen wounded

They were all working at the nearby Buckley Air Force Base.
source
11:14am 21/07/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36356 posts
There's a press conference on ABC 24 live at the moment. The Governor just gave a bit of a boring and fumbling speech (probably because he's been awake for longer than 24 hours), but the police chief is doing an amazing job to outline what they know and is now answering questions.
11:21am 21/07/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2091 posts
The Nazis confiscated weapons and used a gun registry to track down all weapons.

What the f*** does this have to do with anything? So what, "Gun control is bad because of... well because of Hitler!"

Show me some statistics for gun-related crime during the Nazi rule of Germany.
11:26am 21/07/12 Permalink
Crusher
Sydney, New South Wales
1167 posts
If the Jews had more guns, they would have sent Hitler packing.
12:18pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5095 posts
If the Jews had more guns, they would have sent Hitler packing.


I'd watch that movie, if only for the scene where Anne Frank leaps out from the attic and screams "You wanna play rough? OK. Say hello to my little friend!"
01:57pm 21/07/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6900 posts
ban batman movies imo.
03:31pm 21/07/12 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
679 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Inapprop. language/links
Send Private Message
03:55pm 21/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9925 posts
They've released 911 call recordings and police radio from the incident
http://www.news.com.au/world/mass-shooting-at-batman-premiere-in-colorado/story-fndir2ev-1226431167005
04:05pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
839 posts
Guns are made to kill. People shouldn't be allowed to own guns unless they a) want to hunt and b) pass regular psych evaluations. The end.


It's feasible and I like it! Double tap that sentiment Saint. :)
04:08pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Damo
Brisbane, Queensland
6202 posts
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-21/batman-director-laments-savage-massacre/4145450

Dark Knight Rises director Christopher Nolan has lamented the "senseless tragedy" of the massacre at a Colorado movie theatre showing his latest Batman film, calling it "unbearably savage".
04:11pm 21/07/12 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
680 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Off-Topic
Send Private Message
07:11pm 21/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15562 posts
Why did my post count go down by 200 after having comment deleted? lol... is it a bug or some sort of punishment?


it's 871 on qgl
07:28pm 21/07/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3039 posts
i'd say bug

but i'd also say cool way to punish people
07:38pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
4240 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Inapprop. language/links
Send Private Message
08:05pm 21/07/12 Permalink
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
873 posts
So Khel gets away with that... but I can't say "They wanted to see the whole movie... but they only got clips"
08:42pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12982 posts
lol you whining little b****
09:43pm 21/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6255 posts
The data from your own chart is from the United States.

Australia and United States law for storage I imagine is vastly different.

I commented that Australian laws and Australian storage laws are entirely appropriate and acceptable if abided by (and I had prior pointed out the difficulty of obtaining legally).
Why you would comment then that most are stolen and quote an American data compiled chart is beyond me.

Christ, you really can't read. The links I provided (several of them) were from Australian police and publications, which put the guns stolen per year in Australia in the hundreds or thousands, which something like ~15% of are recovered.
11:04pm 21/07/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2102 posts
Really sad that this happens; just such a senseless waste of life and so incredibly selfish on the part of the shooter to randomly decide a bunch of people he has never met or presumably has any beef with should be murdered or have their lives and the lives of their families changed forever.

I can only imagine the friends and families of those shot and killed must be feeling pretty intense emotional turmoil right now; rage, guilt (e.g. why did I let my son/daugter go to the late movie etc, all sorts of "what ifs and if onlys"), sorrow, heartbreak, numbness. It's a terrible thing to lose someone close, but to have to deal with it as a result of some guy's inability to function in the world must be so beyond understanding it's not even funny.

I think the advocates of guns and an armed society are idiots to be brutally honest. Guns are tools that make it quick and easy to kill. Less guns. It's just really pretty simple. Pro-gun is just such a cop out. It's not a solution, it's de-evolution. We should be working towards peace, not war. How's America's "arm everyone" policy working out? Not very well. The easy option is just to arm everyone. The more difficult, costly and ultimately better solution is to implement real change.

I guess on a bigger scale pro gun people are in favour of every country having nuclear weapons, cos you know, then we can fight back right? Idiots.

I think Bill Hicks sums it up pretty neatly:
02:22am 22/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1122 posts
Christ, you really can't read. The links I provided (several of them) were from Australian police and publications, which put the guns stolen per year in Australia in the hundreds or thousands, which something like ~15% of are recovered.
From your own source. Thefts AFTER gun control dropped significantly (well and truly over half).

However, it did appear that some individual incidents had resulted in
larger numbers of firearms being stolen in a single incident. It may be
that criminals are targeting collections as a more profitable source of
supply of illegal arms. Notwithstanding this observation, it appears that
since 1997 the level of firearm theft has been lowered significantly.


So, your own source basically suggests that anomalies of large collections may potentially be responsible for some of this data. This could also refer to places such as ranges which are permitted to store large number of weapons within vaults.
That's starting to sound like organised and planned crime to me.

Absolutely no opportunistic thief could ever steal a properly stored firearm, absolutely no way (ok unless you keep the key floating around and they find it of course but I would say unlikely). If they're organised or just simply equipped enough to rip out a damn safe from a house or break into one I guarantee you they'd be resourceful enough to source a firearm even if there was a total ban on firearms and nobody was allowed to own.

What's wrong with owning a rifle anyway? $30 for an entire beast that can be worth $2000+ of meat if you were to buy it from the market. That amount of meat can feed you and friends for nearly a years worth of meat plus reduces pests for property owners who allow hunting at certain times.

If you have eaten home shot, skinned and prepared meat you would know it absolutely s**** on anything you could possibly buy. It is like the Lamborghini of meat while supermarket meat is akin to the beat up rusted out corolla and tavern/restaurant meat is maybe a commodore at best, there is no comparison. Albeit it comes with risk eating home shot (even oh so tasty and healthy venison), its unlikely.

Inhumane angle? Well woolies meat doesn't just appears on the shelf from the magical meat fairy out the back. Those animals are kept in poor conditions and then slaughtered compared to a beast that has been roaming and living happy then with a good shot will just curl up and peacefully die (due to shock).

That is what guns are good for, your irrational fear that all guns are just death weapons against other humans and anyone who has one must be a homicidal maniac is borderline insane.

Australia has that and it works quite fine. Is it perfect? No, it probably is not but nor would be a total ban as criminals are always going to find a way and there are some who aren't going to store their weapon properly and it may get stolen (I would think this is a minority).

AU does not have the same type of weapons as America is rolling in. Handguns are fewer in AU as well (as evidenced by your own sources).
I suggest you go out there and go to a range. Go actually see what these weapons are capable of. Then go try to freely stand, shoot and hit something at 20-25m out with one. You won't have an easy time even whilst calm.

Australia's legal weapons are unwieldy, slow firing, long reloads and unless its shotgun+pellets unlikely you'll hit anything unless its point blank or you are set up and calm.

A composite bow is legal in QLD, no licence required and as far as I'm aware there is no storage laws (a crossbow is different and requires licence I believe). Those things can fire arrows off at what, 800+ feet per second. They have sights for ease and you could fire off deadly arrows just as quickly as a rifle with just as much accuracy. They have virtually no place for hunting in Australia because its less humane and most places won't allow it. But yet, I don't see you up in arms over bows?

last edited by Mephz at 08:57:14 22/Jul/12
08:55am 22/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6256 posts
I cbf reading all that, you've gone from claiming there there is no gun theft in australia, to there being less than there used to be.

Again, I haven't complained about Australias gun laws, I was pointing out how stupid the US style of thought is, when several people here praise it (and called us 'stupid' for having such laws).
09:13am 22/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1123 posts
I cbf reading all that, you've gone from claiming there there is no gun theft in australia, to there being less than there used to be.
No, I've never claimed there was absolutely no theft. I said Australia's laws are perfectly acceptable if they are abided by and that nobody is going to be stealing a properly stored firearm. When I sent nobody I meant no opportunistic thief who happens to break into a home with a [properly] stored firearm and as a sign of the difficulty. It would take equipment and organisation to remove or break into a safe.

We're talking you probably need at a minimum a hammerdrill and a few hours worth of drilling around the crete or drilling out the bolts. Then the thing still weighs more than one man could possibly carry.
Breaking into it you'd probably need a plasma torch or else copious amounts of cutting blades or drilling bits and probably a few of the tools themselves because they'll probably burnout trying to chew through I'm going to guess it'd probably take a few hours or days to get into.


I don't see you lobbying to have all cars speed limited with severe penalties if over ridden or whatever. And yet you're more likely to get killed due to a car than a firearm here in Australia. They have just as much potential to cause just much damage just as quickly as any legally available weapon in Australia.

Here in Australia any nutjob could just go flying down queen st. mall or plow a vehicle into another heading the other way just as easily (if not more easily) as any nutjob could grab/steal/acquire a rifle and kill a few people.
Again, I haven't complained about Australias gun laws
You were complaining about guns in general and that nobody should have one.
I say otherwise and believe in Au we have it right or at least close to it. It may not be perfect but it never will be for anything that can be used to kill.

last edited by Mephz at 09:46:05 22/Jul/12
09:41am 22/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6257 posts
AU gun laws are perfectly fine.

Impulsivity or theft? If someone can steal it and then crack open the safe they almost deserve the thing! (not literally) but my point is opportunistic theft of a firearm being stored appropriately would be impossible.

Well you live in that fantasy world where all legally acquired guns are stored safely, I'll stay concerned about even legally owned guns while hundreds or thousands of them are being lost into the black market yearly and have historically been the primary source. But again, it was mostly the horrendous US situation with these massacres and murder rate several times that of other first world nations which I was concerned about, when a few are so vocal about it being such a great thing.

As for your example, ultimately, as people have said a thousand times, a car has a different primary use, a gun's first purpose is to kill things with ease, and can be carried around for just that and used in snap decisions of violence.
09:57am 22/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1124 posts
Well you live in that fantasy world where all legally acquired guns are stored safely, I'll stay concerned about even legally owned guns while hundreds or thousands of them are being lost into the black market yearly and have historically been the primary source.
This is just completely irrational. How many guns have you fired or even seen in your life? Now how many guns have seen outside of a range or on a hunt being used or carried illegally in your lifetime?

How many cars are misused more frequently (speeding/dangerous driving as examples) than guns being stored inappropriately and then being stolen on total random chance.

I'll tell you I have never personally seen a gun being brandished illegally but I've been around them many times. I've also NEVER been broken into. so the statistical chances seem pretty unlikely and even then given that I've been around guns more than you (I would say) makes my risk of being shot even by total accident completely more likely.
The very vast majority of people are very sensible around firearms. Single Rounds loaded, actions broken at all times unless going to shoot; weapon being unloaded, never point even remotely in a persons direction; never shoot up a hill (artillary projection you are responsible for that round etc.), people split on hunts and you have to stay where you are going to go to avoid crossfire and so on. It's very involved its not just 'get on a truck and go shoot'.

As for your example, ultimately, as people have said a thousand times, a car has a different primary use, a gun's first purpose is to kill things with ease, and can be carried around for just that and used in snap decisions of violence.
Insert any other object that can be used in a snap decision that is dangerous and fatal and used frequently: a car.

A gun's purpose may be to kill things but that doesn't mean its purpose has to be killing HUMANS. I don't even believe in harming or killing animals for the sake of it. But I have no issue killing an animal you are going to eat and consume. Because I eat meat and I am not that deluded into how supermarkets get theirs.

You're irrational, I urge you to go fire a few guns and you will realise that those available in Australia are pretty f*****g s*** for wanting to go homicidal with. Your fear comes from lack of knowledge and experience, I don't mean that to be offensive but it is quite clearly the case, hence I urge you to go get some experience with one even if it's just at a range.
11:58am 22/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6263 posts
How many cars are misused more frequently

Can you stop with the "look! another unrelated problem!" as if that makes this problem ok.

I'll tell you I have never personally seen a gun being brandished illegally

I have! It was on a farm I half grew up on, several rifles hanging in the living room around kids lawl.

I'll tell you I have never personally seen a gun being brandished illegally but I've been around them many times. I've also NEVER been broken into. so the statistical chances seem pretty unlikely

I don't give a s*** about your anecdotal theories of gun theft, I care about the police claiming that huge quantities are stolen each year, and that this is the primary source of illegal guns in Australia, therefore legal guns are what enable the criminal element who you say don't use legal guns. I haven't suggested tighter gun laws in Australia, I was just pointing out how stupid it is to pretend that legal guns aren't the source for illegal guns.

Your fear comes from lack of knowledge and experience,

Your inability to stop making up positions which I apparently hold to attack is much worse, and actually real.
12:13pm 22/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1125 posts
Unless you were born around 1997 then that has no relevance to today.

You're apparently more irrational than I thought. Just continue on with your fears of being shot walking down the street by stolen guns that everyone in Australia is apparently carrying.
01:43pm 22/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6265 posts
Just continue on with your fears of being shot walking down the street by stolen guns that everyone in Australia is apparently carrying.

Fraaak where do you people come from. "This is what you said and I'll be damned if I stop saying that you said it."

Gun people.
02:19pm 22/07/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5097 posts
I think Bill Hicks sums it up pretty neatly:

Heh, now all those Batman cinema goers are up there in heaven with Bill, sniffing Yul Brynner's noggin.
02:34pm 22/07/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1126 posts
Gun people.
I urge you to go look up the differences between what is legal in Australia compared to what you can legally get in America.

No laws in owning an M82A1 (thats a semi automatic .50 calibre freaking rifle than can go through an inch steel and STILL penetrate 4 inches into reinforced concrete)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RWf8-rQz3Y
You can own fully automatic pistols in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v4hvscksK8&feature=relmfu

You can own semi-automatic .50 calibre freaking handguns in america for less than $2,000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LNBxxoVSn8&feature=related

You can own an AK74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxCTdHsU8Vg

etc etc. the list of very bad guns you can own goes on.

THIS is why America and guns are bad, these guns... are bad.. These are the guns that are useful and devastating for homicide.

The guns available in Australia.. I urge you to go to the range and fire a few .308 rounds or something and find out just how unwieldy and slow they are compared to these sorts of weapons.
You could probably kill just as many people and injure just as many chasing after them in the mall with a samurai sword as a Rifle that's legal here.

Man has been hunting animals since the dawn of time, guns are quite useful for this purpose. And if you read what I said earlier the supermarket argument is already moot. The theft thing is moot and invalidated by your own source.

I'm against any of those sort of guns listed above being legal (doesn't mean I don't think some of them are cool from a pure engineering and physics capability) , so you can throw your 'gun people' immaturity out the window.

last edited by Mephz at 18:18:23 22/Jul/12
06:09pm 22/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6268 posts
It's purely a game of patience where I keep telling you that I've never said that anything is wrong with Australia's gun laws... :P
01:02am 23/07/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8913 posts
ot and killed must be feeling pretty intense emotional turmoil right now; rage, guilt (e.g. why did I let my son/daugter go to the late movie etc,


i feel bad for the kids that died, seen a 6yr old on the news... but i mean wtf is someone under 10... letalone under 15 up at midnight seeing a batman movie :/
07:29am 23/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15577 posts
bad parenting.

apparently the kids mother is now paralysed from being shot.
08:16am 23/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9930 posts
The guy was rejected from joining a gun club because of his slurred speech on his voicemail, the gun club owner had this to say:
"If I'd seen the movies, maybe I'd say it was like the Joker,"

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/shooting-suspect-gun-club-bid-rejected/story-e6frfkui-1226432370882#ixzz21OeRGYd6


Hahaha why would he mention the Joker if he doesn't even watch these movies? Oh because he was prompted to...
09:22am 23/07/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21136 posts
The only way you could possibly know about the Joker is if you had seen Nolan's Batman trilogy.
09:25am 23/07/12 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
4832 posts
A pistol for home/work protection is fair enough but what perplexes me is that military grade rifles and ammo aren't. Unless you are a hardcore gun nut (in which case you shouldn't be allowed access to guns anyway) there is no way you can logically argue that a Barretta M82A1 should be legal to buy. The f*** is that country thinking? Just saying "it's our right" isn't good enough and is the last stand of someone who doesn't know themselves.
09:45am 23/07/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8914 posts
want a free Ak47 with ur next truck purchase?



americans dont give a f*** lol

+ they are a bargain at 450-500$ for a 'good one'

last edited by Sc00bs at 09:49:21 23/Jul/12
09:48am 23/07/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
2539 posts
want a free Ak47 with ur next truck purchase?

We watched that michael moore doco 'bowling for columbine' in school where he showed a bank giving a free rifle IIRC if you opened an account with them. Pretty sure they dont just hand over the weapon - you need to pass a security check and all that s*** first.

no way you can logically argue that a Barretta M82A1 should be legal to buy.

Zombie Apocalypse preparation? That thread a while back with pick your weapon+sidearm+vehicle+partner etc a whole pile of you though you'd be pro with the Barretta.
09:55am 23/07/12 Permalink
Nerfy
Brisbane, Queensland
6270 posts
I can't tell if the comments on that video are some sort of poe's law case..

God bless Mark Muller! If I were in the market for a new truck, I'd definitely buy from him, AK-47 promo or not, just for having learned his stance in this "interview".
For those who, like the "bubble-headed bleached-blonde", question the juxtaposition of God and guns, here's a direct quote from his own son:
“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36) Heck yeah Jesus would own a gun! This world is DANGEROUS
09:56am 23/07/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
20735 posts
Haha

That interview was hilarious. "The only 911 call I need to make is chambering a round".
10:22am 23/07/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
601 posts
Since gun control started here how many Hoddle St, Kogarah or Port Arthur style multiple murders have occurred in Australia?


Based on what I've seen of Australian gun controls and what little I know of statistics, you've gone way out on a limb to say there's any causal link there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders

If you sleep sounder at night thinking Australia can't suffer mass killings because of our gun controls, I'm fine with that. No one should have to live in fear and even in the US your chance of being killed in a mass killing can't be very high compared to other things.

The mass killing of humans by other humans without general social acceptance has been going on for a very, very, very, long time (as opposed to those killings that happen with our acceptance, which have also been going on for an equal time).

These particular kinds of attacks seem to be instigated by people who, for whatever reason, fail to end up part of the general social fabric to which we all belong. To my mind, we are creating more and more people like this all the time.

Note that I am in favour of gun controls, as I am in favour of guns. There are many valid reasons to have a gun, the ability to fling a projectile at a target at speed to damage it has been part of human culture for some time for good reason. There are also many good reasons that devices that do this shouldn't be unrestricted thanks particularly to the massive technological advances we've made along that path.

However, when something like this happens (one person decides to kill many random strangers), I believe that based on all the ways it can happen the question shouldn't be "How?"

I think it should be, "Why?"
10:36am 23/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15579 posts
Pretty sure they dont just hand over the weapon - you need to pass a security check and all that s*** first.


bank hands over gun

person robs bank

11:55am 23/07/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
602 posts

bank hands over gun

person robs bank


Reminds me of Tuco in the gun shop in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
01:46pm 23/07/12 Permalink
Habib
Brisbane, Queensland
371 posts
no way you can logically argue that a Barretta M82A1 should be legal to buy.

Zombie Apocalypse preparation? That thread a while back with pick your weapon+sidearm+vehicle+partner etc a whole pile of you though you'd be pro with the Barretta


Beretta = handguns
Barrett = .50 cal sniper rifles
05:13pm 23/07/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21138 posts
Has faceman tried to claim this was some sort of mind control feat yet?

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

lolz
05:21pm 23/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12984 posts
^^ that is one of the f*****gest lols I've seen in a long time
the absolute LEAPS made there to arrive at conclusions is just mind boggling
05:44pm 23/07/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2105 posts
Has faceman tried to claim this was some sort of mind control feat yet? http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html lolz


Holy s***, just unbelievably retarded. See what happens when you drink too much wheatgrass kids?
08:44pm 23/07/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2106 posts
And this from another even more retarded "article" by this mental giant:

I think I speak for a great many concealed carry permit holders when I say that if I had been in that theater, I would have been emptying magazines in the direction of the threat (i.e. putting sights on target and repeatedly pulling the trigger). Like many concealed carry weapon holders, I would have turned that scene into what we sometimes jokingly call a "two-way range." Like all other concealed carry holders, I am reluctant to ever draw a weapon on anyone, but I'm absolutely willing to do so in order to try to stop a massacre from taking place. What I can't understand is how apparently NOBODY in the entire theater had the training or the presence of mind to fight back. This is truly astonishing at every level. In America today, do people just lay down to die when there's a gunman in the room? I'm not asking this to be insulting in any way, I'm simply bewildered by the lack of action. This is an honest question: WHY did no one act? Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html#ixzz21RRrOAX6


Besides the fact that it's incredibly insensitive to friends and family (even though he repeats that it isn't...well it is, you're basically saying your opinion is that all those people died because they were cowards), it is a thinly disguised attempt to promote his own badassery.
Just a colossal d***wad.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3082/b3e12333601a.jpg
09:00pm 23/07/12 Permalink
Vash
3572 posts
I work in security and its definitely difficult to get a firearms licence. theres a shortage of armed guards in my industry, purely for this reason.
09:23pm 23/07/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9737 posts
Many of the people I seen in "security" should never get access to a firearm.
Hell bouncers kill enough people with out them.
09:29pm 23/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19618 posts
The Joker doesn't even have red hair, he really f***ed that up.
01:56am 24/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9932 posts
11:45am 24/07/12 Permalink
Taipan
USA
3778 posts
Mephz i suggest you do a little reading about bows mate. The fastest compound bows in the world hardly break 300 feet per second and there is really only talk of crossbows capable of getting 400 fps in theory. Find me someone capable of drawing a bow that could get 800 fps and well called the casting agent for the next incredible hulk movie.

That being said my mid range bow at 65lbs draw weight tops out at about 250 ish fps. It doesnt sound like much but in accurate firing its devistating to the target particularly with the mechanical broadheads i use. I can easily hit a deer size target (human sized) at 50 yards in the lungs/heart area, which btw is the correct place to aim as it will garentee a quick kill.

As for the laws surrounding crowsbows they are to me somewhat retarded since i can easily get more.shots off witu my compound bow than i ever could with a crossbow. The only reason crossbows are considered different is because you can get around all day long with it.loaded and ready to fire.
01:30pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
20736 posts
Looks like someone has started the ball rolling with a lawsuit against the cinema, Warner Bros and the killers doctors.
Torrence Brown, Jr. was in Century 16 Theater when Holmes let loose. One of Brown's best friends, A.J. Boik, was shot in the chest and died. Brown, who was not physically injured, claims to now suffer from extreme trauma. Brown has hired attorney Donald Karpel to rep him. Karpel tells TMZ ... he is targeting 3 defendants.

1. The theater. Karpel claims it was negligent for the theater to have an emergency door in the front that was not alarmed or guarded. It's widely believed Holmes entered the theater with a ticket, propped the emergency door open from inside, went to his car and returned with guns.

2. Holmes' doctors. Karpel says it appears Holmes was on several medications -- prescribed by one or more doctors -- at the time of the shooting and he believes the docs did not properly monitor Holmes.

3. Warner Bros. Karpel says "Dark Knight Rises" was particularly violent and Holmes mimicked some of the action. The attorney says theater goers were helpless because they thought the shooter was part of the movie. Karpel tells TMZ, "Somebody has to be responsible for the rampant violence that is shown today."

Taken from TMZ
07:28pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Tanaka Khan
Brisbane, Queensland
5289 posts
Suing WB for making a violent movie, yet they were there paying money to see it!!!!!!!
07:30pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12995 posts
these brown and karpel guys are nearly as big a s***bag as holmes
07:47pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19621 posts
I actually thought it went out of its way to not be violent, like the camera didn't really show people being killed most of the time, and it wasn't graphic at all, no blood or anything. I think it was even rated PG.

Yeah, horribly violent movie right there.
08:01pm 24/07/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5841 posts
"Somebody has to be responsible for the rampant violence that is shown today."

hahah, how about the shooter.
08:06pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Triamks
Brisbane, Queensland
3510 posts
It's rated M.
08:08pm 24/07/12 Permalink
WetWired
Brisbane, Queensland
6052 posts
What a f***head, for starters the film was showing it's PREMIERE MIDNIGHT SCREENING at the time, meaning holmes would not have actually seen the film to be able to mimic any sort of violence in the film, of which there was f***all.
08:25pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Tanaka Khan
Brisbane, Queensland
5290 posts
Batman even makes a point in the movie about no guns!!!!
08:33pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7190 posts
I can understand suing the theatre when an emergency door should of started blaring an alarm, but suing Warner Bros. for the movie you went to see? Really? Doesn't that just sound immature and grasping at straws.
08:53pm 24/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19622 posts
It's rated M.


According to IMDB, "Rated PG-13 for intense sequences of violence and action, some sensuality and language" by the MPAA. M in Australia but PG in the US and a bunch of other places
09:43pm 24/07/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5845 posts
Would you sue a festival which had a drummer playing so loudly that a gunshot couldn't be heard over the speakers in the moshpit?

Would you then sue them because their 'emergency doors' (usually two tiny heavily filtered gates) don't blare alarms when someone goes through them?

Isn't it too late retrospectively? Isn't by the time that people are running out already after the shooter has begun?
09:50pm 24/07/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
2552 posts
M in Australia but PG in the US and a bunch of other places

Wow, i would not have guessed PG elsewhere. I mean it was pretty soft for a M movie though still, dunno about a PG rating.
11:07pm 24/07/12 Permalink
HeardY
Gaelic newb
Sydney, New South Wales
20744 posts
In my fb feed imdb had a article about Christian Bale going to visit all the victims in the hospital, what a champ
08:58am 25/07/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19008 posts
these brown ... guys are nearly as big a s***bag as holmes


racist
09:27am 25/07/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36366 posts
Wow, i would not have guessed PG elsewhere. I mean it was pretty soft for a M movie though still, dunno about a PG rating.
US movies really really try to get that PG rating if they can because it makes a big difference at the box office
09:30am 25/07/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
2557 posts
US movies really really try to get that PG rating if they can because it makes a big difference at the box office

Makes sense. I always assumed that when a movie was MA it would miss out on a large number of potentials viewers who would have seen it if it was M, and the same deal for R.
09:36am 25/07/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5105 posts
Yep, further on trog's point: Some movies have no chance of PG-13 but commercial flicks will still attempt to fit into the R rating and steer sharply away from a NC-17 rating as the latter is often described as a box-office death sentence.
10:31am 25/07/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19623 posts
Now DC are delaying some of their Batman comics so as to not appear insensitive. Sif thats necessary :(
11:06am 25/07/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7229 posts
Batman even makes a point in the movie about no guns!!!!

Yeah, but so does Catwoman ;)
11:47am 25/07/12 Permalink
Red
Sydney, New South Wales
984 posts


A liiiittle bit freaky.

Snippets of the calls include:
• "Hundreds of people just running around"
• "Somebody's spraying gas in there too"
• "We've got rifles, gas masks and... an open door near the rear of the theater."
• "Behind the theater... a suspect in a gas mask"
12:04pm 25/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9937 posts
re: Bale visiting the victims in hospital

A Warner Bros spokeswoman told local newspaper The Denver Post Bale was representing himself, not the movie studio.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/batman-flies-in-christian-bale-visits-victims-of-colorado-cinema-massacre-20120725-22or5.html#ixzz21b1MT1Sy


F*****g chicken s*** company has to distance themselves in case anything goes wrong.
12:07pm 25/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12997 posts
in case?
you're not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes thermite
12:15pm 25/07/12 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
717 posts
re: Bale visiting the victims in hospital



F*****g chicken s*** company has to distance themselves in case anything goes wrong.


or they could be pointing out that he's gone on his own free will rather than being forced to go by WB
01:32pm 25/07/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
15602 posts
i hope he didn't feel pressured into going by those online campaigners.

last edited by ravn0s at 13:45:23 25/Jul/12
01:42pm 25/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9940 posts
in case?
you're not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes thermite


part sentence.
then an unrelated personal attack out of the blue

classic jim

last edited by thermite at 13:51:28 25/Jul/12
01:49pm 25/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
12998 posts
I'll spell it out for you then

earlier, rev posted that one of the people present at the scene has hired a lawyer who is suing warner, among other targets. I googled 'donald karpel warner bros' for more info

later, you post about warner, dissing them for stating that bale wasn't representing them when he visited the victims


let me know if you still don't get it
02:09pm 25/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9941 posts
I'm not sure there is anything to get. Why are you bringing up a story about something else? The guy suing isn't even in hospital. That was from another conversation at another time.
Bale has a short temper, that's what I was referring to...
You better quickly cover this up by hurling more random abuse I think.
02:19pm 25/07/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
9658 posts
I hate it when you two fight. Can't we all just get along?

I'm sure Batman would prefer it.
02:28pm 25/07/12 Permalink
Jim
UK
13000 posts
yeh cos saying "you're not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes" constitutes hurling abuse

it doesn't matter who's in hospital and who isn't, or what aspect of bale's temperament you may have been referring to.
the fact is, it's understandable that they might not want anything negative happening which could be construed as being their responsibility at the moment - so calling them a 'f*****g chicken s*** company' at this stage of events is... so MoneySupermarket of you
03:22pm 25/07/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10187 posts
Another guy causes a stir in America by "dressing like the Joker" and going to a movie theatre. He was unaware of this, apparently, which is fair considering he looks nothing like the damn Joker.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2012/09/joker_arrested_a_p.jpg


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/joker-arrested-dark-knight-rises-shooting-368238
11:23am 06/09/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
2869 posts
lol. Nothing like the joker but not far from the hair colour of the other dude IIRC.

I dont understand the makeup thing. I thought it was meant to be a 'im unique' thing but to me its just an 'attention whore' thing.

Also, bulls*** he didnt hear of the batman shooting. Unless he has no access to TV or internet, he f*****g knew. What a joke.
11:46am 06/09/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
20884 posts
12:21pm 06/09/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10203 posts
LOL

That's sad, but funny.
12:41pm 06/09/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21409 posts
Seth Green would play that guy well in a movie of the week I reckon.
12:43pm 06/09/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10204 posts
12:59pm 06/09/12 Permalink
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