What's his problem? Gets all uppity because he can't remember a few lines. And this guy was running the country once. I hope everyone enjoyed their $900 Rudd bucks!
A Labor insider said the video could only have come from the Prime Minister's office, which stores such clips. If true, that would suggest a bitter escalation of the leadership crisis between Ms Gillard and the Foreign Affairs Minister.
A leader should be blank and lifeless, like Gillard. If you see a soul in their eyes they are weak!
this is the picture they paint when they know the public are looking at them though, so it's understandable that people would react to different behaviour he thinks noone else will be seeing
This is getting surreal - you can't have the executive at odds like this, getting on with the job of governing the country is going to suffer. What a bunch of clowns, the entire lot of them.
I dont think Rudd will win the first challenge but there wont be a 2nd challenge, she will end up stepping aside Id say after Labor is wiped out in QLD.
My god this is the worst government in the history of Democracy.
I hate that lying bitch and its going to be one of the great days in my life when she gets the sack.
My god this is the worst government in the history of Democracy.
I hate that lying bitch and its going to be one of the great days in my life when she gets the sack.
At the moment both major policial parties have no idea what they are doing and they are carrying on like pork chops, IMO. I did not vote for Gillard, I definitely did not vote for abbot. Anyone else feel that all current polys need to be sacked and new younger people take their place? I sometimes feel Lib and Labor parties both need to be disbanded or something. Start again fresh.
I dunno, Its all confusing at time and clouded by bullshit.
Always love the way the 'system' creates distractions. But I am sure we can all ask ourselves that when more people get busted for marijuana going into a country where the value is 4,000 ~ 5,000 (marijuana) and not 43,000 like it is here.
Release of the K-Rudd video just seems too convenient for me. I'd like to know what Chinese Embassy he is referring to. Why does he need a translator. That a side.
Labor moved to the Right to overthrow Howard and The Greens got the Left Vote.
Now Labor are Right Left Middle Far Right Far Left out of control, kept in power by the Independent Centipede(looks like Wilkie got the last spot)
A couple of Backbenchers have today called for Gillard to step down, i cant see this going on beyond next week. They are becoming a laughing stock, The GG should dismiss them for being dysfunctional (although Bill shorten married Quentin Bryces daughter to make sure that didnt happen)
Mosst of the current Ministers wont work under Rudd, its going to be a brutal split, wouldnt surprise me if some quit in protest and force a by-election or two.
I'm starting to lean towards the greens more and more these days. can someone remind me why I shouldn't vote for them?
If either Howard or Rudd ran for PM, they would get my vote, but Gillard isn't trustworthy and abbots a giant Muppet who thinks the biggest problem with the economy is the carbon tax and the biggest threat to Australia is boat people.
The greens, national liberal party, the sex party and any other liberal based party (the pirate party?) should join together and form a liberal coalition and push against this deteriorating nanny/police state, that's something I'd feel empowered to support, but currently the puppet show is getting a little dull.
I'm starting to lean towards the greens more and more these days. can someone remind me why I shouldn't vote for them?
If either Howard or Rudd ran for PM, they would get my vote, but Gillard isn't trustworthy and abbots a giant Muppet who thinks the biggest problem with the economy is the carbon tax and the biggest threat to Australia is boat people.
The greens, national liberal party, the sex party and any other liberal based party (the pirate party?) should join together and form a liberal coalition and push against this deteriorating nanny/police state, that's something I'd feel empowered to support, but currently the puppet show is getting a little dull.
Principles
The Australian Greens believe that:
global governance is essential to meet the needs of global peace and security, justice, human rights, poverty alleviation and environmental sustainability.
effective means of global environmental governance are needed to halt and reverse the current trends towards environmental decline across the globe, especially with regard to reducing greenhouse gas emissions to mitigate climate change.
the system of global governance must be reinvigorated.
major structural reform is needed to provide stronger, more effective and more representative multilateral institutions.
the leading role of the United Nations (UN) in the maintenance of international peace and security must be recognised and respected by all countries.
the international financial institutions that govern aid, development, trade, and transnational financial movements require extensive reform to enable them to provide global economic justice.
I think only Wilkie had a policy about not letting slaps anywhere near QGL, but it got tossed out with the trash when Slipper took the speaker's chair.
I been thinking in recent times, Would having every Poly be independent be any good? None of this party pigeon holing. Would that even work? I wish Polys in general would stick to the the question they are asked in interview. I don't want to hear:
Interviewer: So what are your party's policy on the sex life of a ping pong ball.
Mr.Rabbot: Well we have a great policy on that.....but the previous/current government is failing and blah blah blah.
Interviewer: That's not exactly what I asked you.
Mr.Rabbot: (keeps nodding a lot) BOAT PEOPLE
I also wish they would have some class and not go after their opponents personally. Fuck, I wish they would just talking about their own policys and ideas and not even mention their opposition. I really don't give a shit who or what happened 6-15 years ago. If I am watching or listening to you, I want to hear what you and your so called party are doing, not anyone else.
I'm starting to lean towards the greens more and more these days. can someone remind me why I shouldn't vote for them?
A thorough read through their policies should be enough to turn you away from them. Even though they do have some very good ones.
Some of them are full retard, you never go full retard. Their GM Crops, Mining, Nuclear (and shut down Uranium mining totally, when we're one of the top 3 producers of it in the world), Fishing (severely restricted recreational fishing) and their Climate Change policies (40% reduction of 1990 levels by 2020) would be a good place to start to see some of their more batshit crazy policies.
Katter should shut the fuck up.
Unless he wants to step down from his Federal seat and run for a State seat, he should STFU about it.
The only other Aus Party member I know about is Aidan McLindon. He's a dead set fuckwit. Cares for nothing but himself and furthering his own goals. Anybody out Beaudesert way please don't vote for him and tell everyone else you know that he is a chucklefuck that isn't worth spitting on.
I'm starting to lean towards the greens more and more these days. can someone remind me why I shouldn't vote for them?
wow, have you read their policies thoroughly?
Looks like everyone's starting to realise
I could see how it might look like that if you were going around kind of dazed and confused, largely blinded by the narcissistic idea that you're somehow enlightened and everyone else is a drooling drone
for anyone in reality, it's clearly not a case of 'everyone starting to realise' at all - you'd only have to have read a handful of political threads on these forums over the years to see that
I could see how it might look like that if you were going around kind of dazed and confused, largely blinded by the narcissistic idea that you're somehow enlightened and everyone else is a drooling drone
for anyone in reality, it's clearly not a case of 'everyone starting to realise' at all - you'd only have to have read a handful of political threads on these forums over the years to see that
You'd also have to be a massive moron to assume I was talking about people only on this forum and not on the internet or even people as a whole. Keep up with the superiority complex, Jim, you'll find your purpose in life, however small and insignificant, eventually.
i'm not a fan of Rudd, I think he's a pillock. However, can't see why that vid would do any damage to him, just a frustrated block sick of a pack of cunts who can't organise a root in a brothel.
I doubt Gillard or Rudd will contest the next election, it will be Combet or Smith.
PR wise bad for Krudd but I didn't personally think it was that bad. The vid was clearly been edited so it's all out of context we have no idea what's going but he's clearly frustrated with either the interpreter or the politics of wording or something. No surprises really I mean it's politics after all I would be very surprised if in private none of the pollies themselves are not sick of all the bullshits that go on.
If anything it shows that in that situation he's also sick of it just like the rest of us strangely enough...
From most of the people that I have heard talk about it, no-one really gives a shit. Interesting though it prompted several of them to bag out Gillard and the labor government as a whole.
What interests me is how these recordings are done, who leaks them and what do they gain from it? and also the repercussions for everyone who may of been involved.
i saw nothing extreme? sounds like they are just pushing unions, this is considered "extreme" because???
Nothing in your link made me not want to vote for them, have you got something more specific?
wow, have you read their policies thoroughly?
thats the thing, i just followed the general mantra of "the greens are crazy", It's only since I've started reading their policies that I've started seriously considering them.
Kimbo
supporting the UN, how is that crazy?
i'm after policies that are real game changers, something that should be considered utterly unacceptable.
Things like :
like putting a filter on the internet, or removing due cause for basic infractions like copyright infringement.
A complete and utter stop to uranium mining and severly restricted exploration/new mines for other resources is a game changer. At least in QLD and WA (and to a lesser extent in NSW.)
Some other 'Game Changers'
No GM Crops
40% reduction on 1990 Greenhouse Emissions by 2020.
However... if you cant see how unrealistic and dangerous their IR policies are, then you might not find fault with the above either.
we don't need GM crops in Australia, we aren't a 3rd world nation and have heaps of land with relatively few mouths to feed, besides, its about creating a legislation framework to support bio-diversity, not an outright ban on GM foods.
from their webpage
ensure that when regulators assess the risks of GMOs as manageable and issue a license, they specify the agencies or individuals responsible for the identified risks and mandate the management systems to be used.
they want to regulate GM foods, this isn't the end of the world, and is probably a good thing.
40% would be achievable with huge subsidies for electric vehicles and a massive push to solar / wind / nuclear. it will cost a lot and i seriously doubt they would reach their milestone, that being said... whats inherently wrong with this policy? its just a furthering of existing policy and international treaties.
Mining, however, might be an issue, but not as big of an issue as the mining industry will make out.
*sigh* turns out is much of the same hyperbole.
ensure that environmental and social impact assessments are rigorously applied and implemented on all mining proposals and projects.
prohibit the exploration for, and mining and export of, uranium.
oppose the establishment of new coal mines and the expansion of existing mines
prohibit mineral exploration and mining as well as extraction of petroleum and gas in terrestrial and marine nature conservation reserves, including national parks, wilderness areas and other areas of outstanding nature conservation value.
establish a national mining insurance fund, based on mining industry contributions, to provide resources sufficient to rehabilitate the environmental impacts of existing mining operations.>
ensure that all new mining proposals include a fully costed and funded allocation for the restoration and rehabilitation of the impacted area(s) to world’s best practice standards.
sounds like a good plan to me?
other than the ban of uranium exports, this is entirely reasonable?
What a load of shit, our agriculture industry is going down the toilet and growing crops in this country is harder than ever. We need every advantage we can get, and we should be out to develop new products to keep us competitive in the world market.
Mining;
If you go onto further reading and find out what their assessments entail you would find that it's not resonable, not even in the slightest.
Total ban of all Uranium mining, not that it would be worth much if we didn't export it. We only have one Nuclear facility (IIRC) and it's not for power generation.
GM Foods;
If you think that stopping/slowing Australian access to better foods, on less space to produce more, healthier food is a good idea... then you might just fit in perfect with the Greens. I'm not sure what not being 3rd world has to do with it. Maybe if we threw away some of our advancements in science and technology (Like say for instance GM FOOD) we could well end up a 3rd world country.
40% would be achievable with huge subsidies for electric vehicles and a massive push to solar / wind / nuclear.
With Nuclear, definitely. I think I see a flaw in your argument though. Solar, Wind and Electric cars alone wouldn't be enough.
Unless we all made a lot of sacrafices to our daily lives, which I would rather not.
I thought the OP's video made Rudd look slightly human, we know he's not though, we know he's a narcissistic maggot just like Juliar.
None of these creatures represent us like they claim, they represent the international arseholes who's agreements and treaties they agreed to make us inhabitants adhere too in exchange for "power". This smidgen of authority is what motivates creeps like Abbot, Gillard and the rest as in reality they're incapable of the high achievement they fell is owed to them. They can all rot.
Only problem with the mining industry is you have to listen to them whine about how they are hard done by. Saw an add today about mining, trying to convince people they are grass-roots kind of people but it really is just astro-turfing. If they are so committed to get the minerals out of the ground they would stay here even if there is a larger resource tax, but they threaten by saying its not competitive for them to stay if MRT was increased. Sooner or later they will want the resources from here, if they leave now, it will just get more expensive in 10-30 years time when they come crawling back looking for more coal and minerals.
clearly someone who has no knowledge of NSW politics. KK is a person who lead NSW Labor to a massive election defeat last election. from 52 to 20 seats in the lower house of 93.
she was a rubbish premier and just another puppet of the disfunctional Sussex st labor machine.
you're allowed to change your mind 'ala the GST' if you take it to an election.
There is a huge difference between saying just before an election "I will not shoot Bambi" then immediately after winning the election, going ahead and shooting Bambi - Gillard Style
As opposed to saying before an election "I will not shoot Bambi" and then winning the election and deciding that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to shoot Bambi, I will announce that as a policy before the next election to make sure everyone is aware that if they vote for me, I'm going to shoot Bambi. Then winning a 2nd election, with everyone being very clear than you intend to shoot Bambi and then going ahead and doing so - aka Howard style.
The difference being that Howard's badly worded comment was made in 1995 in the context of Hewson getting hammered at the 1993 election and after the GST policy was shelved. Fast forward to 1998, and it was back on the table as a proposed policy iff the Libs got back into government and the people were able to vote on it.
Far different from "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" right before the 2010 election, only to be full steam ahead with a carbon tax right after the election.
Only reason we are getting a EMT and carbon tax is because you lot did not vote for labor enough. We have a hung parliament because of votes/lack of votes for either political party. In order for labor to maintain government, they had to side with the garbage greens and annoying whiney independents.
O ffs, I think he was a great Foreign Minister. Well labor just lost pretty much the only thing they had going for it.
Also I just checked the Liberal home page. OMG they have 2 Big Items alternating. BOTH items are saying how crap Labor is, not how good their own party is. Goes to show they too have nothing to say.
So frustrating that the major parties for Australia suck really badly.
boom, looks like he wasn't about to wait for Gillard to sack him next week.
Eorl, he's still a backbencher, he has just given up his portfolio. Gillard will replace him if she continues to hold power. Spill next week should determine the party's future.
Its gonna be on next Tuesday Morning i think.
The Rudd supporters will be working the phones right now, Shorten may have been promised the Treasurers job, that will bring his supporters to Rudd and prolly be enough.
Gillard Vs Rudd
Whoever wins
We Lose.
Seriously this shit needs to end.
Not only do we the public need some proper Government, Business needs to see steady stable Government. Its time the Independents pulled the pin and gave us the Election that should have happened 12 months ago.
The Carbon Tax has to be set aside if Rudd takes over.
Abbott will repeal it, Business cant make decisions on how to deal with the Tax when Government could be finished in as little as a week. Its a dogs breakfast.
All Australian political leaders are governing our country on obfuscated, aged principles. For instance, there are no advocates of nuclear power stations, which are an obvious step forward from our polluting coal plants.
All Australian political leaders are governing our country on obfuscated, aged principles. For instance, there are no advocates of nuclear power stations, which are an obvious step forward from our polluting coal plants.
to be fair, the public are now terrified of nuclear power stations because of recent events in Japan ; any politician that stood up on a platform of nuclear now would probably get pwned.
Also, HOW EXCITING IS THIS! I don't even really care that I'm not a Labor supporter.. just all the drama is fascinating. I learn more about politics when this sort of thing happens than at any other time.
Is there any party that actually has technology in their agenda, and actually appreciates and welcomes it? Every other bloody politician is about 10-15 years behind, just look at the SOPA debate and how they had to call in "geeks" to tell them what the hell the bill meant.
Rudd will never get the numbers. Most of the caucus hate his guts. He should just slink away silently.
He may not have enough numbers in the Caucus but if 5 of his friends in the Labor party decide to resign from the party in support of him (including him) then Labor will lose government. This will put Toni maggot in a quandary, take government reverse Labors policies and then call an election or just call an election.
My prediction is that Labor will lose 5 member and Gillard will call an election.
That chick, that should of got Conroy's job knows her shit. She's from Labor and I would still like to see her in our parliament (though with higher powers.) As for actual parties with it on their agenda... nope. Libs did have an almost Pro-Nuclear (more neutral. But not OMG WTF GET that shit out of here, like Greens. Labor were negative as well IIRC)
There are heaps of smaller parties that might suit your need, in the Senate. There was 60+ last election, so amongst them, someone, somewhere should be at least close to what you want in your Government.
As for the lower house though.... not so much.
Usually just the 3-4 (Lib = Nat, Green, Lab or Indie... we're not counting democrats these days are we?) Keep in mind that the Greens started out in the Senate. Only when they had a larger following did they start trying to win seats in the lower house. So don't be afraid to cast your vote for a party that suits your needs/wants in the Senate. Even if you chose to have a 'No Count' vote for the lower house. Maybe if they get enough support they could grow to a larger party.
Also, LDP Supports Nuclear power. I like a lot of their policies actually. But they lose me on a few key issues. Like health, education and welfare.
Epic win for Kevin Rudd. It's now obvious he doesn't have the numbers to launch a challenge and never did have them. Going out on his own terms gives him the high ground.
Gotta give the bloke some credit for the sideshow he's orchestrated over the last year and a bit, he's managed to reverse stab Gillard without ever having to wield a knife.
So does this mean Rudd is backing down and putting an end to all the leadership challenge stuff? Or is he still in a position to do that?
Rudd's just resigned as a minister (front bench) so he'll go to the back bench (for now). He can still challenge the leadership if he has enough support from the rest of the Labor caucus. The media is still going to be nuts for a few days yet.
Gillard's apparently just called for a vote on the leadership on Monday to settle it once and for all.
Thanks for that Scooter, will look into it more closely. Not to say I'm a one-issue voter on nuclear: it's just one example of demonstrably poor, populist leadership to disagree with it imo
Treasurer Wayne Swan has lashed out at Mr Rudd, accusing him of wasting opportunities.
For too long, Kevin Rudd has been putting his own self-interest ahead of the interests of the broader Labor movement and the country as a whole, and that needs to stop
I'm an unabashed Rudd supporter. He has been my local member pretty much my entire voting life. My dad went to school with him, my sister won one of his 'Rudd Bikes' when she was in primary school. During the Howard years when Labor had a procession of dropkicks leading the party (Beazley, Crean, Latham) I used to bore everyone to tears professing that the only Labor person who could beat Howard in an election was Rudd. I was in London when he got elected, but was beaming for months afterwards, and crushed when he stood down in 2010.
I think what he has done today is smart, but I would have liked to have seen him be bolder and take on Gillard out in the open. Even if he lost he would have maintained more integrity for doing it. Gillard calling for a leadership vote next week is also a great move, as she will now have the opportunity to say she beat him in a vote. There's no way he will have the numbers next week to topple her.
All this has done is to further ensure Newman wins in QLD and Abbott is gifted a victory sometime in the next two years. Labor comes out of this shitty no matter what happens.
Well it will be interesting if he gets re-elected back to Prime Minister. God that would be hilarious to see, though it won't save Labor. Just imagine if those two were walking past each other while moving in/out of the Lodge. "Didn't use it for very long did you ranga?"
"NOT one person predicted Kevin Rudd would resign as Foreign Minister. That's how brilliant the move was.
Until that second, Prime Minister Julia Gillard seemed to have outmanoeuvred him, and was certain to humiliate him in the party room next week.
But now he's warned that it's game on. He's painted himself as the plucky choice of the voters, fighting the "faceless men".
He's the little guy who was done wrong by silent assassins, party bosses and union heavies and the woman they installed. He won't launch a "stealth attack" on Gillard, he declared, as she did to him.
He'd fight out in the open, the old hypocrite declared.
And Rudd has challenged the frightened MPs, already looking at polls putting Labor catastrophically behind, do you feel lucky with Gillard, punks?"
"Julia has the overwhelming support of our colleagues.
She is tough, determined, forward-looking, and has a good Labor heart.
She has a consultative, respectful relationship with caucus while Kevin Rudd demeaned them.
She's cleaned up a lot of the mess he left her and has established a good, Labor agenda.
She's delivering major reforms, and getting things done that her predecessor could not."
I mean come on, that's just a bit harsh. Kevin tried to keep things smooth, but his Labor, and we all know Labor are only good at getting us in the red.
I think what he has done today is smart, but I would have liked to have seen him be bolder and take on Gillard out in the open. Even if he lost he would have maintained more integrity for doing it. Gillard calling for a leadership vote next week is also a great move, as she will now have the opportunity to say she beat him in a vote. There's no way he will have the numbers next week to topple her.
shouldn't oh i don't know the PEOPLE decide? i mean seriously i come from the middle east (Syria) to be specific, i am used to seeing the party chose the leader but then again there is no democracy over there...
honestly to me krudd being ousted the way he was when he was PM and what is happening now is confusing as all hell... i just don't get how in a Democracy, where people vote for the leader, the people have no say in what is going on.. seems like communism to me.. but hey what do i know.
shouldn't oh i don't know the PEOPLE decide? i mean seriously i come from the middle east (Syria) to be specific, i am used to seeing the party chose the leader but then again there is no democracy over there...
honestly to me krudd being ousted the way he was when he was PM and what is happening now is confusing as all hell... i just don't get how in a Democracy, where people vote for the leader, the people have no say in what is going on.. seems like communism to me.. but hey what do i know.
We aren't a full "democracy". We choose members of a party and then they cast their vote for a leader. So we never get to choose the leader, we only choose the party.
TufNut, you pick your local member to represent you. Or who you feel will best represent your views.
I know that the 'Leader' has a lot of the public limelight, but really it's the party/person you're voting for. Not the leader. They shouldn't get as much attention as they do, it's the party room which decides the policy (or at least, it should be) and the direction for the party.
That is why I always encourage to find out the person they're voting for, not just what party they're in or who is currently leading them.
shouldn't oh i don't know the PEOPLE decide? i mean seriously i come from the middle east (Syria) to be specific, i am used to seeing the party chose the leader but then again there is no democracy over there...
honestly to me krudd being ousted the way he was when he was PM and what is happening now is confusing as all hell... i just don't get how in a Democracy, where people vote for the leader, the people have no say in what is going on.. seems like communism to me.. but hey what do i know.
Yeah, you don't understand how Australia's parliament works.
As infi says, under the Westminster system the Leader of the governing party is chosen by the party, not the people. Voters in Australia vote for a Member of Parliament (MP) (hence why you write number 1 next to the candidate you want, not the leader of the party you want to give you vote to on your ballot paper).
The ALP did the right thing by ousting Rudd when they did. He's a maniac who had his chance to lead this country and threw it away by driving a wedge between him, his colleagues and the Australian people.
He is only polling well in the polls due to what happened to him, people feel bad for him. If he wins the poll he will be popular for a week or two and then it will be back to the level it was before he was sacked/resigned. He should have resigned from the party when he resigned from the Prime Ministership, that would have been the honourable thing but he needed the job to enhance his career.
Breaking news? This thread sucks I heard about that on hack this arvo -_-
Odd since it was only announced around 7:30pm our time. Would have been speculation on hack this afternoon.
Interesting how senior Labor ministers are basically saying they would rather be defeated by Tony Abbott than serve under Rudd, where as Rudd supporters are of the opinion that only Rudd has the capacity to defeat Abbott.
I'm sorta hoping Rudd wins cos I like his balls. Barrie Cassidy summed it up perfectly - Rudd is good at politics, bad at policy,; Gillard is bad at politics, good at policy.
On the other hand, Rudd loses, some of his numbers resign, force an election, labor loses and Rudd comes back as leader to defeat Abbott 3 years hence.
Interesting how senior Labor ministers are basically saying they would rather be defeated by Tony Abbott than serve under Rudd
Well thats because the current Labor has been carved up by the Factions.
The same Factions that Rudd laid the Law down to after he won his Election.
The same Factions now face PAYBACK if Rudd gets the job again.
What you have seen is the weasels of Labor trying to scare the Caucus into supporting them again.
The thing is, The Factions are responsible for the Gillard/Swann show that has sent the Party to its lowest Polls ever, cant win an Election with Gillard, might with Rudd.
"It is a decision not-very-pure and exactly simple to determine who gets to continue in the big office if only temporarily and who gets consigned immediately to the scrapheap of history.
With the other to follow at the election.
This should be a decision about the future of this country.
It's not even that in the - very - small world of Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd.
There's not a slither of difference between them on policy.
They jointly gave us all the disastrous policies - from the waste of pink batts and school halls, to restarting the boats, and the two big ones.
First, the $50 billion waste of the National Broadband Network.
Second, the carbon tax, which is going to decimate what's left of manufacturing that manages to survive the high value of the Aussie dollar."
I do agree the carbon tax is pointless the amount of cars being put on the road in china next year alone outweighs all of the "benefits" that raising the price on carbon will have, all the companies will do is raise their prices to reflect the changes in cost anyway so the useage of materials and we are supposedly promised rebates that will offeset this, and the rich dont really care about those kind of bills so i dont really see the point.
Most of the politicians dont seem to see the actual benefits the internet will have to businesses i would say it would save more wasted resources than the carbon tax would in productivity with much less of an effect on our sales to other countrys and so on.
No that isn't her ad, her advert is all about how great she was during "Australia's biggest state wide disaster", I just think the uniform at Coles suits her.
ONE way or another the choice will now have to be made. Between Australia’s worst-ever prime minister and our second-worst. But whichever one emerges in the job next week, he or she will still be presiding over a disastrously inept Government in an utterly dysfunctional Parliament…
If Gillard is still Prime Minister after next week, it’ll be a case of the turkeys voting for Christmas.
That would guarantee Labor lost at the next election.
And perhaps an early Christmas, if Rudd resigned and left the Parliament.
If Rudd lost only narrowly, and stayed, the whole disastrous circus would lurch on.
And if Rudd won, it would be back to the chaos of 2009 - multiplied by all the hate and dysfunction around the cabinet table. With the added chance of one or more of the independents triggering an election.
this entire ordeal is a pretty awful indictment of our political landscape but I must admit it's very compelling entertainment!
Exactly. My complaint is that it's not clear how to set up sickbeard so that it downloads all the dramatic media releases and press conferences so I don't miss an episode.
What a debacle the Labor party is at the moment. Couldn't get a majority government and can't decide on who to lead the party. Surely someone like the GG must be gearing up to come in and tell them pull their socks up and get on with the job of actually running the country?
Am I the only one who thinks Julia Gillard is ugly? It could just be that revolting haircut she has, but my god she looks bad. Not to mention untrustworthy.
My perfect scenario: Rudd loses to Gillard and then resigns from office entirely in poor-loser fashion leading to an election.
Anyone who understands the process better than me - is that a possibility?
I think they need to lose more than Ruddles because of the seat they effectively gained (and the Libs lost) from Slipper taking the Speaker's role?
Commentary this morning was that the fastest way to an election was probably Rudd winning and calling a snap election to capitalise on any (probably very brief) honeymoon period. He has a good excuse to do it too, and if the polls looked at all promising they'd probably do it.
Neither will resign from The Party.
While it might appear to be ego driven No Member is ever more important than The Party. If Gillard or Rudd resigned then all the members that supported them would suffer the consequences.
Windsor was blabbering on about how this might cause an Election, yeah right, Windsor and oakshott have no hope of ever being re-elected, they would give up everything to Not have an Election.
Because this kind of thing only happens with the Labor party right? Surely even you must concede that Abbott may be a good opposition leader, but would be a terrible Prime Minister?
Heh, that's exactly what I was thinking. I admire his dedication, discipline and the high level of fortitude he seems to posses with regard to health and fitness and pretty much everything he applies himself to, although I find him a little too smarmy. Nawt top dawg material IMO.* :)
Haha did anyone else catch Paul Murray Live last night on Sky with the argy-bargy between Latham, Chris Kenny from the Australian & Joe Hildebrand from the Telegraph? It was gold.
Latham sure was entertaining, but he's batshit crazy.
It's a bit concerning that a lot of the MPs that'll decide between Rudd and Gillard on Monday were the ones that decided to put him forward as the main man not that long ago.
Rudd is a bully, swears at his staff, chucks tantrums for insignificant issues, has the biggest glass jaw in Australian politics and backed off from the most important policy issue in his entire platform for election. Finally he was resoundingly sacked by his own caucus, there wasn't even a ballot and he cried about it on national TV. THEN he has undermined Gillard backgrounding journos and calling Independents and then denying it in public.
This guy is a prick and a scumbag.
Yet, people still think he was a worthwhile PM and would give him another shot... what is this I don't even...
So what was the go with Gough Whitlam, I thought he was booted out by the GG?
The PM was sacked by the GG using reserve powers to break a deadlock.
We have (in many people's opinions) a shit Government, but they are passing legislature and running the country so the GG's reserve powers are not needed and inappropriate.
while I would much prefer turnbull as leader abbott will do fine as pm because he isn't surrounded by incompetent arse lickers and won't have his agenda set by bob brown and the unions.
put bishop, hockey and turnbull in the other top jobs you've got a boss cabinet. peter costello should make a comeback and you'd have a dream team!
What a bunch of uninspired Liberal Party rhetoric. I work down the road from her house, in her electorate, and she doesn't do SHIT for the folk round here. Most people don't even know she is from here, they just know that they love big houses and hate Labor.
She was removed from her position as treasurer in 2009 by her own party because she was so bad at it, and now she is doing absolutely nothing as shadow minister for foreign affairs and trade. The Liberal Party has absolutely no response to the illegal immigration clusterfuck, yet they're the ones yelling "Stop the Boats" at every opportunity. She should be all over that, but still there is no policy forthcoming.
And I don't see how she can be a hard bitch when she has no spine. The only reason she has her position is because she's a good little drone and doesn't say anything when the Liberal Party leaders switch places. She has all the personality of a plastic cow.
After a few years off the electoral roll, I rushed to re-enrol just before the 2010 election.
I re-enrolled to make sure I could vote against Gillard, and I rushed because I had no idea she was our local member until the "how to vote" crap arrived in my mailbox just prior to the election.
Unless things have changed dramatically in the 12 months I've been out of Werribee - Gillard does sfa for her safe-seat electorate.
while I would much prefer turnbull as leader abbott will do fine as pm because he isn't surrounded by incompetent arse lickers and won't have his agenda set by bob brown and the unions.
You're right, Abbott's agenda will come from Cardinal George Pell and the Australian Christian Lobby.
The Liberal Party has absolutely no response to the illegal immigration clusterfuck, yet they're the ones yelling "Stop the Boats" at every opportunity.
that is a pretty retarded statement. the Coalition is in favour of returning to past Coalition government policy which worked. politics threads always brings out lots of retardation, so entertaining.
Barrie Cassidy summed it up perfectly - Rudd is good at politics, bad at policy,; Gillard is bad at politics, good at policy.
I think Barrie has it completely wrong. Rudd is terrible at politics. He can't play the game of politics as well every other person in politics. They all know you are only as strong as your support (constituent and party (both are equally important)). While Rudd comprehends constituent support (hello Kevin 07), he has no concept of party support. He alienated his colleagues, staff and public service in order to maintain constituent support. He lost it when the truth became public knowledge and he will lose it again if he wins on Monday (he won't).
Another reason Rudd declined in the polls is that he couldn't read what they were telling him which was odd since he lived by them. Rudd couldn't comprehend that the public wanted him to be the leader they (theoretically) elected him to be. When his government twice lost the private health insurance rebate and climate change legislation he could have pulled the trigger and called a double dissolution election. He instead chose to look weak and didn't even attempt to negotiate a solution.
Rudd is mediocre at policy. He can dream it up and set it as a platform but because he lacks party support he struggles to implement it and has to hide behind reviews in order to be seen to be doing something with the policy. He also has no concept of policy promotion. It was only in his resignation speech that he cited his government's achievements.
Gillard on the other hand is good at politics because she understands the mix between support and policy. She especially understands party discipline so can implement policies. She brings her party colleagues and the Greens and the independents in this minority government along with her to pass legislation. The concept of inclusion is foreign (pun intended) to Rudd. Gillard tries to get the message out but she struggles because of the noise generated by Rudd being there and Abbott who is quite the master of politics. He learnt from the master politician, Howard.
Julie Bishop is the most useless politician on the front bench. What does she do besides bring in money from WA mining companies?
She's got one hell of mean death stare. One glare from Julie Bishop is enough to turn unsuspecting Q&A audience members and backbenchers alike into stone.
Scariest thing I've read thus far on the whole Gillard vs Rudd thing was in the courier mail today. Certain unions are demanding that MPs show other MPs their ballot to prove they don't vote for Rudd.
lol as if you idiot^
that is a pretty retarded statement. the Coalition is in favour of returning to past Coalition government policy which worked. politics threads always brings out lots of retardation, so entertaining.last edited by infi at 19:15:30 23/Feb/12
Labor supporters love to pretend that the liberals have no plans while totally ignoring the plans and policies that are freely available in the public arena.
I actually recieved a call from Tony Abbot before on my phone, he left a message on my vociemail talking about the carbon tax
There's a big difference between thinking Liberals have no plans and thinking that Liberals plans are more influenced by religious bodies/lobbies.
Much as there's a difference between thinking Labor has no plans and thinking Labor's plans are influenced by the Unions.
Though after the current government's performance I think one could almost be forgiven for thinking Labor has had no plans recently.
It's definitely a great time to not be in Australia and have to listen to all this bullshit.
As for the leadership issue. I find it interesting there was a riot in the Kerobakan gaol. Makes me wonder what Kevin was doing in Washington or was it because of the recent ANZUS issue with posting US Soldiers in Darwin? Ah well suppose it will be consigned to parliamentary notes.
One topic that became prominent in the 2000s (decade) are its implications in the case of a hypothetical attack by the People's Republic of China against the Republic of China on Taiwan, who would likely receive American support. While Australia has strong cultural and economic ties with the United States, it also has an increasingly important trade relationship with mainland China.
(And Indonesia...)
Annual bilateral meetings between the US Secretary of State and the Australian Foreign Minister replaced annual meetings of the ANZUS Council of Foreign Ministers. The first bilateral meeting was held in Canberra in 1985. At the second meeting, in San Francisco in 1986, the United States announced that it was suspending its treaty security obligations to New Zealand pending the restoration of port access. Subsequent bilateral Australia–US Ministerial (AUSMIN) meetings have alternated between Australia and the United States.
The alliance engenders some political controversy in Australia. Particularly after Australian involvement in the 2003 Iraq war, some quarters of Australian society have called for a re-evaluation of the relationship between the two nations. Nonetheless the alliance enjoyed broad support during the Cold War[12] and continues to enjoy broad support in Australia.[13] One commentator in Australia has argued that the treaty should be re-negotiated in the context of terrorism, the modern role of the United Nations and as a purely US–Australian alliance.[14]
Australia is also a contributor to the National Missile Defense system.[15][16]
Wish I could find the reference to the half life of Thorium versus Uranium but I can't, sorry.
Also Australia being just like the US and India having a high concentration of Thorium.
Health aspects of DU
Depleted uranium is not classified as a dangerous substance radiologically, though it is a potential hazard in large quantities, beyond what could conceivably be breathed. Its emissions are very low, since the half-life of U-238 is the same as the age of the Earth (4.5 billion years). There are no reputable reports of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to ingested or inhaled natural or depleted uranium, despite much study.
Molten Salt Reactors (MSRs): These reactors are still at the design stage but will be very well suited for using thorium as a fuel. The unique fluid fuel incorporates thorium and uranium (U-233 and/or U-235) fluorides as part of a salt mixture that melts in the range 400-600ºC, and this liquid serves as both heat transfer fluid and the matrix for the fissioning fuel. The fluid circulates through a core region and then through a chemical processing circuit that removes various fission products (poisons) and/or the valuable U-233. Certain MSR designs [c] will be designed specifically for thorium fuels to produce useful amounts of U-233 – eventually leading to the self-sustaining use of thorium as an energy source.
Accelerator Driven Reactors (ADS): The sub-critical ADS system is an unconventional concept that is potentially ‘thorium capable’. Spallation neutrons are produced d when high-energy protons from an accelerator strike a heavy target like lead. These neutrons are directed at a region containing a thorium fuel, eg, Th-plutonium which reacts producing heat as in a conventional reactor. The system remains subcritical ie, unable to sustain a chain reaction without the proton beam. Difficulties lie with the reliability of high-energy accelerators and also with economics due to their high power consumption. (See also information page on Accelerator-Driven Nuclear Energy)
* The high cost of fuel fabrication is due partly to the high level of radioactivity that builds up in U-233 chemically separated from the irradiated thorium fuel. Separated U-233 is always contaminated with traces of U-232 which decays (with a 69-year half-life) to daughter nuclides such as thallium-208 that are high-energy gamma emitters. Although this confers proliferation resistance to the fuel cycle by making U-233 hard to handle and easy to detect, it results in increased costs. There are similar problems in recycling thorium itself due to highly radioactive Th-228 (an alpha emitter with two-year half life) present.
As for solutions to the Depleted Uranium problem other than shooting it at people in Afganistan, Libya and now Syria:
This guy sells ideas. If you want to watch the whole video click here
I know we're a big hole in the ground. We're meant to be on the non-nuclear bandwagon but that doesn't stop third parties from testing on areas around our island home. So far it looks like coal is winning until we have the Gaul to stand up for our country, if you want/would like to call it that.
- - - - For the "TLDR" crowd.
Then you get to the bottom and this is for the TLDR crowd; Congrats, nice mining pit on the Islamist doorstep with relations (and I have a lot of respect for Indonesia and Indo-China with our lovely communist trading benefactors (iron and anything else -- there goes your sovereignty) and the US putting troops in Darwin. Not to finally forget to mention the US bases on Australian soil as well. We're in a right fine position.
Just do one thing for me. Teach your kids to speak Mandarin. Oh that's right sarcasm is wasted on the net.
The relationship between Australia and Indonesia has never been stronger. Australia and Indonesia are close neighbours, with a highly productive relationship that ranges across political, security, commercial, environmental, cultural and people-to-people links. The strength of the relationship can be seen in the depth and breadth of high level exchanges between leaders, ministers and prominent people of both countries.
Yeah when we aren't giving them hell about their cow slaughter practices.
Cooperation on People Smuggling
Australia and Indonesia work closely together to combat people smuggling in the region and Mr Rudd and Dr Natalegawa jointly co-chair the Bali Process on People Smuggling, Trafficking in Persons and Related Transnational Crimes. At the Bali Process Ministerial Conference held on 30 March 2011, Ministers adopted a regional cooperation framework for tackling people smuggling, including options for practical action such as
bilateral arrangements to undermine people smuggling and create disincentives for irregular movement
coordinated border security arrangements
and strengthened information and intelligence sharing.
I'd give Rudd +1 for going there and dealing with 'the issue'.
Mr Rudd has met his Indonesian counterpart, Dr Marty Natalegawa, on numerous occasions, including at the East Asian Summit Foreign Ministers Meeting in Bali in July 2011.
Rudd +2 here as well.
Cooperation on Climate Change
Our partnership with Indonesia on climate change is substantial and growing, both in international negotiations and through initiatives to reduce emissions from deforestation and degradation. On 9 December 2010, Mr Rudd and Climate Change Minister Greg Combet announced an allocation of $45 million to Indonesia to extend climate demonstration work in Kalimantan, accelerate joint work on Indonesia's National Carbon Accounting System and support Indonesia's efforts to adapt to climate change.
Here is Andrew Wilkie scolding Rudd. I don't see Andrew packing.
There were calls on the government to revisit the Pacific Solution by re-opening the detention centres on Nauru. Several of these came from former outspoken critics of The Pacific Solution. Refugee lawyer Marion Le, who had demanded the facility be shut down in 2005, said that it was "time for Labor to bite the bullet and reopen Nauru", while human rights lawyer Julian Burnside agreed, saying "asylum-seekers would receive better treatment in Nauru than Malaysia." [10] This echoed the sentiment of Independent MP Andrew Wilkie who several days previously, while stopping short of calling for a return to the previous arrangement, noted that "John Howard's Pacific Solution was better." [11] The Australian Government now has an increased urgency of finding a processing centre solution after the Malaysian swap deal was deemed unlawful by the High Court.[12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Solution
Andrew Wilkie has already withdrawn his support from Gillard, and, as usual, is playing his cards close to his chest. His hatred for the Coalition is well-known, though that’s no guarantee. Since earlier this week, when he was briefly embroiled in the soap opera by way of a misreported conversation with Rudd, he’s been quiet.
Another day, another press conference. He's asking people to phone their member to beg them to vote for him on Monday, and that all MPs be granted immunity from punishment from voting for him.
Mr Sheen will have to do some heavy duty polishing to get anywhere near the numbers he needs, makes me wonder if there isn't a third player about to enter the race and Rudd was just instigating this ballot for them.
I'd take Rudd over Gillard any day (though neither is definitely preferable), but surely there's just about zero fucking chance Rudd (or Gillard for that matter) would win another election?
makes me wonder if there isn't a third player about to enter the race and Rudd was just instigating this ballot for them.
I would be incredibly surprised and impressed if that was what Rudd was up to, but I also find it very hard to believe. Also, who the hell would they get? Labor hasn't had a strong leader in years.
If Rudd wins the ballot Labor has a chance of winning the next election, which should be called quickly. With Gillard at the helm Labor has no chance. Rudd knows this, Labor knows but half the MP's would rather lose then have Rudd at the Helm. The question on Monday is just how many are willing to lose..
I personally would much rather the Labor party split into 2 over this. Those with Ruddles can form a new party and the remenants can claw over what is left of labor. Then a new election would need to be called, that will put a huge spanner in the polling and all that.
Really? The impression I get from everyone I talk to in Australia (which admittedly isn't a huge sample) is that they wouldn't want Rudd as PM again. But having been out of the country I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse.
I certainly never got the impression that people were satisfied with Rudd as PM. Do you think Rudd has a chance of winning the next election purely because the other option is Abbott?
Another election is simply not going to happen. Too much anti-Labor sentiment that not even Rudd's messiah vibe will overcome. QLD is about to go to the polls both on a state level and many for local govt. Throwing in a Federal election with that would be a sure thing for coalition supremacy.
It'd be awesome if K-Rudd came out this arvo and said "On reflection I think I won't run for leadership but just look at how Julia and her friends reacted over the past 2 days - do you really want them running the place?"
Then he goes and joins Bob Katter and they take Australian politics by storm (and flash mob dancing).
the Coalition is in favour of returning to past Coalition government policy which worked.
I was pretty sure that rulings by the high court have made that impossible due to it now being illegal to ship people offshore when the country isn't legally bound to protect them.
i especially like the way the ALP has framed the argument on who is best equipped to defeat Tony Abbott, rather than who is best equipped to lead the government and by extension, the country.
Talk about admitting you're only interested in holding onto power, rather than delivering good policy and governing the country
I was pretty sure that rulings by the high court have made that impossible due to it now being illegal to ship people offshore when the country isn't legally bound to protect them.
IANAL
The ruling was that non-signatories to the UNHCR could not be a valid destination for asylum seekers under Australian law. This would normally not be a problem, but the ALP is unable to change this law as the Green will not support it and neither will the Coalition.
Around the same time as this process was happening in the High Court, Nauru finalised their ratification of the convention. I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure the Coalition helped them with i dotting and t crossing here.
Malaysia are uninterested or at least unmotivated regarding signing up.
Really? The impression I get from everyone I talk to in Australia (which admittedly isn't a huge sample) is that they wouldn't want Rudd as PM again. But having been out of the country I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse.
I certainly never got the impression that people were satisfied with Rudd as PM. Do you think Rudd has a chance of winning the next election purely because the other option is Abbott?
Simply not true. Apart from QGL and the Labor government itself, everyone here is children of the Kevolution. We got our Rudd bucks, got pissed off when he was mysteriously evicted as the PM even though nobody had a problem with him. Not to mention the fact that he has at odds with the policitians around him makes him even more trustworthy because clearly he's told them how it is and doesn't take their shit. He's on our side not on labor's side, and that's how it should be. Plus he's awesome at the foreign stuff anyway and that's really what you need a PM for in this day - someone that can represent the country well overseas - not just a stern task master for the people running the country, which he does well too.
I don't know whats going on in the labor party, but if they go with Gillard they are betting against the odds. Krudd is the only one that has been successful at the polls out of Rudd, Gillard, and Abbott. Gillard got in some cheap non-voting way initially, and then people begrudgingly voted her back in, probably hoping Rudd would just make a move and ditch the bitch. She won by a sliver, it was basically 50/50 with her Abbott, which says a lot considering Abbott is a nutjob.
So if Rudd gets in, he'll have my support for PM, if not, I will vote for nobody and draw whales with large penises on the form until such time a desirable candidate comes along.
Not saying Rudd doesn't have room to improve, he's just a smarmy politician after all, not to mention our political system seems to encourage a lot of clusterfuckery, but he is the carry-over champ and deserves this.
Maybe on Labor's list of priorities, leading the country well is a given and plays second fiddle to the dire situation which is the possibility of Tony Abbott getting into power - and that is a valid call IMO. :)
I was pretty sure that rulings by the high court have made that impossible due to it now being illegal to ship people offshore when the country isn't legally bound to protect them.
read a newspaper, or a news website or even just wikipedia ffs
He may not have enough to win this Vote but it will mortally wound Gillard.
Gillards dream result is for Kevin to not run. Anything else is bad news.
Kevins dream result (apart from winning) is to get to the high 30s.
If you want Kevin Rudd back ring your local Member and tell them.
Email them.
read a newspaper, or a news website or even just wikipedia ffs
Maybe talk to everyone like they're idiots more? Oh right, you're a party man, incapable of thinking for yourself.
Just because Nauru has signed the refugee convention doesn't mean that they now comply with the requirements of the high court decision that shut down the Malaysia deal. Something about unaccompanied minors, I dunno, maybe read a paper sometime.
In other words, the current Liberal policy is illegal under Australian law.
Seriously, even the dyed in the wool lifelong ALP diehards would be struggling right now?
Coalition kiddies would be loving life and the swinging voters must be wondering what sort of clusterfuck they have caused by voting green at the last election.
What a fucking shambles of epic proportions. I consider mysef a swinging voter, but I couldn't seriously vote for the ALP with the interests of my country in mind - we are being completely embarassed.
your previous statement discusses a completely different issue. unaccompanied minors would be a very minor cohort of the asylum seekers.
True and true, but it'll still be enough to require more legislation and court battles if they want to revert to the Pacific Solution.
This was supposed to be a screed against Julie Bishop, not Scott Morrison. I'm going to give up pretending I'm anything but biased towards her and her stupid face.
I know a few ALP party members that are actually happy with how Gillard has done. They'll admit she's "not perfect" but think she has done a fine job considering...
Anybody been watching ABC 24 News? Shits going off. Rudds about to state his political future and Im guessing mount a revenge attack on Gillards arsehole.
What a fucking shambles of epic proportions. I consider mysef a swinging voter, but I couldn't seriously vote for the ALP with the interests of my country in mind - we are being completely embarassed.
Heh I don't think its all that bad. The trains are still running and the world is still turning.
We could do without the bitchiness and drama though, just sort out who the PM is and get back to us thanks.
Watching it now and the one thing I can say is the man is not holding back on anything - internal party process, internal discussions and just laying it all out in the open.. particularly smashing some of those journos with their questions.
I said it when it happened - not firing Rudd completely when gillard ousted him was the dumbest thing ever. It was only a matter of time until this was going to happen. If you take someone down you gotta do it for good, caesar style. ALP = lol, none of them have ever had a real job.
I said it when it happened - not firing Rudd completely when gillard ousted him was the dumbest thing ever. It was only a matter of time until this was going to happen. If you take someone down you gotta do it for good, caesar style. ALP = lol, none of them have ever had a real job.
Even after all this shit, I still wouldn't vote for Abbot as a better alternative. Dunno who I would actually vote for, but its a big leap to assume people will automatically swing towards Abbot when they swing away from labor.
One thing that's become evident to me is that Gillard thrives when she is in battle. She's so lame at all the feel good shit that a PM is supposed to do, but she is an absolute demon in a scuffle.
Man I'm so out of the loop that I have no idea what's going on, was just looking for an easy rudd clip to see if he's doing something or other, instead was so amused by this -
Another election is simply not going to happen.
Au contraire, it certainly is going to happen within about year.
I want direct election of the prime minister, it will give the position legitimacy it currently does not have. Back room intra-party back stabbing will only occur once every 3 years that way.
And make it so the PM can veto the parliament, and introduce their own bills. So a minority PM is still forced to work with parliament to produce good outcomes.
The GG will then have a real roll.
And I want more real options than Labor and LNP.
I also would not be opposed to the idea of 6 year terms for PMs. So they can focus on long term projects instead of 24 hour news cycles and 1/3 of all budgets being about buying votes.
I loved it when Jules met POTUS and started playing football with him, I still have the cringe marks in the shirt I was wearing that day.
She was on the news saying that her record of implementing policy is what is important, not her popularity with the scum. This chicks beyond presidential, she should be made dictator for life.
haha someone's done a number on them, the cutoff text reads: "The Labour party was first founded in 187 BC when Raptor Jesus died for our sins. His last message to his disciples was to create a system dedicated to providing erotic movies to the poor children of Africa. Raptor Jesus would later return to life several hundred years later to fight Ghandi and to proclaim Atlantis the capitol of the world. However, after an unprovoked attack from Optimus Prime to Atlantis, the transformers sunk atlantis, and Raptor Jesus, which resulted in the first known dispute of the Labour Party of Australia. Through its membership of the Socialist International, the ALP is affiliated with democratic socialist, social-democratic and labour parties in many countries. The party was historically committed to socialist economic policies, but this term was never clearly defined, and no Labor government ever attempted to implement "socialism" in any serious sense. Labor supported national wage fixing and a strong welfare system, it did not nationalise private enterprise. The single exception to this was Ben Chifley's attempt to nationalise the private banks in the 1940s, but this was ruled unconstitutional by the High Court of Australia.[2] The commitment to nationalisation was dropped by Gough Whitlam."
I'd like to automatically vote Liberal but they throw money around as well just not as bad a Labor.
1. Retarded Baby Bonus by Costello
2. Economy fucking unaffordable house prices kicked off by lowing CGT and throwing free cash with the First Home Owners Vendor Ponzi Boost which Ruddtard continued with.
3. Parental Leave
last edited by sLaps_Forehead at 12:18:12 27/Feb/12
Put me in charge for a few years and I'll get things turned around. How hard would it be? First priority is to never listen the Greens and kick them to the curb. I would rule with an iron fist, but I would be fair.
Tony Abbott will be Prime Minister soon! I am so excited!
Even as a Liberal voter the prospect of Tony Abbott running the country doesn't excite me, he's a twit and I don't think he's the right man to run the party
I'd like to automatically vote Liberal but they throw money around as well just not as bad a Labor.
1. Retarded Baby Bonus by Costello
2. Economy fucking unaffordable house prices kicked off by lowing CGT and throwing free cash with the First Home Owners Vendor Ponzi Boost which Ruddtard continued with.
3. Parental Leave
last edited by sLaps_Forehead at 12:18:12 27/Feb/12
I must admit they do throw their money around, but for the most part they know how to keep a majority of it in the bank. The figures prove it, they left Labor with $200 billion surplus, now what do we have?
The figures prove it, they left Labor with $200 billion surplus, now what do we have?
There was a little thing called the GFC in there somewhere that you might have heard of. That "popular opinion" is the reason that both sides are so obsessed with returning to surplus that they are too afraid to make a lot of investments that would benefit the country a lot more. Debt isn't always a bad thing if used correctly.
Care to elaborate in which way the FHOG resembles a Ponzi scheme at all?
The FOHG isn't a ponzi scheme, the Australian housing market is, pricing out of step with the realistic value of the product powered along by speculators and dependent on the theory of greater fools. The grants and speculator tax incentives just added fuel.
maybe he means like, you're getting money back for an investment from something you've (and others) invested (tax?) into previously
loose connection at best
They're pretty tight with those grants, we missed out on the FHOG and the building grant because of some bureaucratic technicalities. I say this country is in debt to me.
by boosting the price of homes higher than they otherwise would be - much like a ponzi scheme. JWH why did you ever create it?
The FOHG isn't a ponzi scheme, the Australian housing market is, pricing out of step with the realistic value of the product powered along by speculators and dependent on the theory of greater fools. The grants and speculator tax incentives just added fuel.
A bubble in the price of an asset class is NOT by definition a Ponzi scheme. Some people on this forum are in love with the term and it gives me the fucking irrates.
In order for a bubble in house prices to be a Ponzi scheme there would need to be a wilful orchestrator of the scheme (the SCHEME bit should be a giveaway FFS) who deliberately profited. You're talking about Greater Fool theory but that's not a dopey bandwagon term like Ponzi.
Yeah, you're right, it is an emotional term that doesn't really fit because there's not a clear orchestrator (unless you get all faceman and consider political manipulations by the finance and real estate interests that have set themselves up for life on the back of it).
I should have said it resembles rather than is, but just wanted to quickly point out what the other poster was referring to WRT to the FHOG.
I love how Kevin badmouths gillard for the whole week saying things like she is going to make the party lose and shes a crap pm, then in his latest speech he starts talking her up and saying he fully supports her and will try to get her elected again.
Lie after Lie after Lie Labor Liars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party haha someone's done a number on them, the cutoff text reads: "The Labour party was first founded in 187 BC when Raptor Jesus died for our sins. His last message to his disciples was to create a system dedicated to providing erotic movies to the poor children of Africa. Raptor Jesus would later return to life several hundred years later to fight Ghandi and to proclaim Atlantis the capitol of the world. However, after an unprovoked attack from Optimus Prime to Atlantis, the transformers sunk atlantis, and Raptor Jesus, which resulted in the first known dispute of the Labour Party of Australia. Through its membership of the Socialist International, the ALP is affiliated with democratic socialist, social-democratic and labour parties in many countries. The party was historically committed to socialist economic policies, but this term was never clearly defined, and no Labor government ever attempted to implement "socialism" in any serious sense. Labor supported national wage fixing and a strong welfare system, it did not nationalise private enterprise. The single exception to this was Ben Chifley's attempt to nationalise the private banks in the 1940s, but this was ruled unconstitutional by the High Court of Australia.[2] The commitment to nationalisation was dropped by Gough Whitlam."
Yeh I have a lot to do today so I'm a bit crankier than usual, even!
The problem I have with labelling the situation a Ponzi is that it implies that people are being misled and duped when its just not true!
Any half-witted owner of property in Australia should be aware of the (potential) bubble that could burst or at least unwind in the coming years, and nobody sensible should be buying with an expectation of rich CG at the moment.
Its been a surreal few days in Australian Politics.
Rudd has done the dignified challenge, now comes the tap on the shoulder for Gizzard.
Rudd isnt going anywhere, He'll be bach.
The hatred for Gizzard will only intensify in the public now because they will feel that the Labor Party has ignored the people who would vote for it and stuck with a factional dead fish.
Any half-witted owner of property in Australia should be aware of the (potential) bubble that could unfold in the coming years
here is to hoping most of them are truly half-witted and that prices crash.
The figures prove it, they left Labor with $200 billion surplus, now what do we have?
one of the best & well run economies in the world? we avoided the fallout of the financial crisis and have our standard of living largely unaffected, this didn't come cheap but definitely worth the cost.
here is to hoping most of them are truly half-witted and that prices crash
Why would you hope for that? A broad crash in the AU property market is bad for everyone.
I understand (and support, even when I have a mortgage!) relatively flat growth for a few years to unwind the inflated environment, but why the fuck would you wish for a crash? Are you trolling or a bit simple?
Why would you hope for that? A broad crash in the AU property market is bad for everyone. I understand (and support, even when I have a mortgage!) relatively flat growth for a few years to unwind the inflated environment, but why the fuck would you wish for a crash? Are you trolling or a bit simple?
but why the fuck would you wish for a crash? Are you trolling or a bit simple?
wealth redistribution. sure, a lot of people like you will get fucked over, which isn't my problem. but a post crash economy would be ideal for people like me who want their first property to actually make money over time instead of stagnate or collapse further into the future. A crash would restore the value in the investment and make it worthwhile for me to give up the 40 odd working years (working years that i have and you don't) of my life working to pay off a square of land.
I'm more likely going to be able to afford more value on property with a crashed market and half my wage than the current state of affairs.
last edited by Captain Lateral at 14:24:47 27/Feb/12
wealth redistribution. sure, a lot of people like you will get fucked over, which isn't my problem. but a post crash economy would be ideal for people like me who want their first property to actually make money over time instead of stagnate or collapse further into the future. A crash would restore the value in the investment and make it worthwhile for me to give up the 40 odd working years (working years that i have and you don't) of my life working to pay off a square of land.
Wealth redistribution? You're trolling, ignorant, or naive.
A property crash of any serious magnitude in Australia would destroy household wealth, lead to a deep recession, and probably a period of social instability. A very serious crash where a significant portion of mortgagees accepted bankruptcy could lead to a run on Australian banks as their mortgage backed securities imploded in value.
Worthwhile to give up working years?! You'd probably lose your job you twit! You're not an island buffered from the affects of widespread wealth destruction because you don't own property.
wealth redistribution. sure, a lot of people like you will get fucked over, which isn't my problem. but a post crash economy would be ideal for people like me who want their first property to actually make money over time instead of stagnate or collapse further into the future. A crash would restore the value in the investment and make it worthwhile for me to give up the 40 odd working years (working years that i have and you don't) of my life working to pay off a square of land.
I'm more likely going to be able to afford more value on property with a crashed market and half my wage than the current state of affairs.
that is probably one of the stupidest things I have heard someone say.
Like Hoggy, I am prepared for the housing market to stay flat for the next several years, because I know a house is a lifetime investment.
Now/the next few years is probably the best time to get into the property market, and if you cant afford it now, you are doing something wrong.
I own a house on a single income (pretty modest income, maybe a bit more than some people but not 100k+ a year) and I pay Child support.
but a post crash economy would be ideal for people like me who want their first property to actually make money over time instead of stagnate or collapse further into the future. A crash would restore the value in the investment and make it worthwhile for me to give up the 40 odd working years (working years that i have and you don't) of my life working to pay off a square of land.
so you want to scoop up a cheap property and then ride a wave of CG then? So you want exactly the same situation that happened around the early 2000's, but you just want in on it?
But it certainly doesnt need any propping up as high house prices are destroying the economy by exposing ppl to high levels of debt and unaffordable rents all for the sake of unproductive assets.
If the housing market crashed 20-30% or more. House prices wont recover as well as you think, it will take years of flat movement to give investors/first home buyers the confidence to actually buy. Everyone would be shit scared of further falls, look at what just 1-5% has done.
While you think, mmm a $160,000 house is great value now I'd so buy it when they fall that low, everything you will read at that time will be saying how much further they could fall and how much they are not going up. This would then make you seriously question your '$160,000 house being great value', even though it is probably correct.
Fear and Greed will grip your mind with an iron first when it comes to large amounts of money.
Who will you vote for in the next federal election?
Labor 10.68% (1655 votes)
Coalition 73.16% (11338 votes)
Greens 6.03% (935 votes)
Other 10.12% (1569 votes)
Total votes: 15497
Just saw this. I know that 15k sample size isn't huge, but thats a fairly big statement.
With less buyers it would mean less houses being built too, and there goes a whole bunch of trade jobs and related businesses, and in turn pokies/prostitution/liquor are weakened, footballers and real estate agents turn to crime, and the bikkies take over the whole town.
Put me in charge for a few years and I'll get things turned around. How hard would it be? First priority is to never listen the Greens and kick them to the curb. I would rule with an iron fist, but I would be fair.
I'd vote for you, as long as your tax reform policy includes the equivalent value of any unclaimed RBJs in the form of a tax rebate.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has refused to guarantee the jobs of ministers who backed Kevin Rudd in this morning's leadership spill.
I'm sure she'll be a softy and let Albanese keep his job if he turns on the waterworks for the second time in as many weeks.
Well Kevin07 has me stumped, he had nowhere near enough numbers. All he's achieved is to give mother Australia a chance to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic but she will be able to stab the unwanted betrayers front on and slowly while wearing that stupid trade mark nanny grin.
Worthwhile to give up working years?! You'd probably lose your job you twit! You're not an island buffered from the affects of widespread wealth destruction because you don't own property.
I don't expect to avoid fallout, which is why i said i would get more value out of my money even if i earned half as much.
House prices wont recover as well as you think, it will take years of flat movement to give investors/first home buyers the confidence to actually buy.
sort of what i'm banking on.
I don't really care if it takes 10 years for housing prices to start moving up, i'm not buying to make a quick buck, i'm buying to get a home. why should i care if "investors" don't want to buy into housing? if anything wouldn't that reduce prices in itself?
you're essentially saying "its important to keep the price of the commodore artificially high, instead of allowing people to lose interest in trying to start a car sales and renting business - because cars are good for the economy and too many people are invested in this scheme, so we need taxpayers to support it."
mmm a $160,000 house is great value now I'd so buy it when they fall that low,
maybe, but i'm not looking for a house that retains value so i can "play the market", i'm looking for a home, so the primary calculation is "something that is affordable." if $160,000 is affordable for the value of the house, then i'd buy it. actually, if the cost of renting also dropped significantly i may be able to buy something better, even with a fall in income.
that's a wet dream right there, it would only be better if someone trying to cash in on the cash cow of investment properties looked sad and lost in front of the house.
Fear and Greed will grip your mind with an iron first when it comes to large amounts of money.
one more unannounced visit by the landlord would be enough to cure me of that ailment i'm sure. its a real world affordability problem, not a speculative nervousness problem i have.
so you want to scoop up a cheap property and then ride a wave of CG then?
If i could work out what you mean by "CG" then i'd probably agree with you.
Anyone that resigns obviously needs a replacement, but Arbib was from the upper house, Nobody from the HoR is looking like resigning from their elected seats. When they refer to cabinet ministers resigning, like Rudd, they just mean resigning from their ministry and going to the back bench, they're still the elected official for their seat.
I still don't see why he put his name forward for it. He would of gained more by not challenging it and then maybe cleaning up after gillard fails at the next federal.
Rudd did it simply as a profile raising exercise. "Look Julia, I've still got it!" She is going to die a death by a thousand cuts, but I am still betting she will hang on until the election. It's funny, centrebet had her at $2.40 prior to the challenge buit she is now at $1.30.
Yep hes a smart player Rudd, He wont be excited over today but everyone is talking about him and everyone knows how many votes he has now.
I didnt see any tears from Rudd.
Rudd loses 100K per annum in salary by dropping from Foreign minister to back bencher.
Sure wish I could afford to make a decision like that....
Yep, I wouldn't worry too much about Kev making ends meet after a drop in salary. To put it into perspective:
- Rudd and his wife are both already millionaires,
- His parliamentary pension and perks are worth a phenomenal amount of money per year
- A big chunk of that 100K would go to tax anyway
- The rest pales in comparison to what he could earn in the private sector when he decides to retire at the next election
Anyone see 7.30 report ?
Its like nothing happened. Everyone was cordial, no threats, no get squares.
All the criticism stopped *snaps fingers*
This is the strangest thing Ive ever seen in Politics.
The ALP has some kind of Multiple Personality Disorder thing going on.
One more stuff-up and its gonna be on and its going to be very ugly.
I give it 2 weeks.
Its almost as if Rudds krew know some shit is about to hit the fan and hes done this like some kind of rehearsal for taking over. Maybe its the report on that Craig XXXXX and the HSU ?
That's all well and good Conan, but you need to understand that it's a balance. If Labor was in power too long the country would go broke, if the Liberals were in power too long we'd all be earning minimum wage of 50c an hour and every single service in the country would be privatised and run purely for profit.
Having either party's policies in place for too long would not be in the best interests of the majority of citizens in the country, hence the constant see-sawing between the two, and the inevitable creeping of both parties from the left and right wings towards centrist politics.
Nope, power corrupts. Everyone has different needs and wants and no one party can cater to everyone, so swinging back and forth and a little over there works, not well, but works.
Well Jules has proven that she has the hide of Rhino with her ability to totally ignore the wishes of the electorate and to poll lower than Saddam Bin Laden. So wtf just make her dictator for life, It'll just be some other maggot otherwise. This party musical chairs crap is so 20th century.
42 years, can't make excuses there. Libs aren't great, just compared to labor they are.
Once again people cluelessly trumpeting that budget deficits are always inherently a bad thing. It also completely fails to take into account the ways in which said surpluses were achieved, such as the time when you know, two of those Liberal goverment terms oversaw stages of the sale of the nation's biggest telco.
Seriously, we have leading economists telling us that we should be investing in more fixed infrastructure and not striving for surplus at all costs this term. But it's people like you that parrot this ignorant sentiment and make it politically infeasible for either party to run a deficit.
i never understood why people say that spending into debt isnt a bad thing.. wouldn't mind some explanation on that.
Also i dont understand the Rudd cash stimulus hand out. Isn't that just a small temp boost to the economy then it goes back to how it was?
I personally think that cash boost did nothing and we were already in a good position to avoid a recession
That's all well and good Conan, but you need to understand that it's a balance. If Labor was in power too long the country would go broke, if the Liberals were in power too long we'd all be earning minimum wage of 50c an hour and every single service in the country would be privatised and run purely for profit.
Employee rights Vs Employer rights != balancing a budget. Also, pretty sure QLD Labor wants to sell off the rails, ports, motorways and segments of the forestry industry.
Once again people cluelessly trumpeting that budget deficits are always inherently a bad thing.
Libs had 9 out of 21 budgets in the red and a small overall positive, so maybe read it before you get your panties in a bunch. Of course having large projects and difficult times can produce deficits. My point was that, over time figures prove Labor always rack up too much debt. You want to have 40% GDP debt? Your electorate can pay the interest. Also extra investing in one area(infastructure) dosen't always have to mean you have to go into deficit.
It also completely fails to take into account the ways in which said surpluses were achieved, such as the time when you know, two of those Liberal goverment terms oversaw stages of the sale of the nation's biggest telco.
See above for Labor privatisation, what's the go with the QLD ALP budget then? The selloff of Telstra no-doubt helped with 3 out the 11 of the budgets. It also wasn't a total selloff, was like total 80% or something.
But it's people like you that parrot this ignorant sentiment and make it politically infeasible for either party to run a deficit.
It's probably voters like you that allow situations like we have in the USA, Greece and other toilet countries as well. Also if it was politically infeasible for either party to run a deficit as you say, I doubt Labor would be in power in federal and state level.
Employee rights Vs Employer rights != balancing a budget. Also, pretty sure QLD Labor wants to sell off the rails, ports, motorways and segments of the forestry industry.
I never said they were equivalent, I was merely inferring that unwanted negative things happen when one mindset of politics is in power for too long.
I have no idea about QLD Labor, but from what I've heard they don't exactly sound like the smartest bunch, also it just proves my point about the parties moving away from their ideological political leanings.
"Always"? Because you have a 40 year spread of data? The data can't lie, but the conclusions you draw can be misleading.
Its funny how those figures can also be used to pretty accurately show the boom and bust cycles of the nation. Most of the economy's state is utterly beyond the control of politicians due to our economy's linkage with the roller coaster commodities ride. I've yet to hear the Coalition tell us what they would have done during the GFC other than a vague "less deficit" mantra.
Its easy to pump yourself up when your surplus history and vaunted credentials are based entirely on a boom cycle that you had nothing to do with, all the while spending more as a percentage of GDP, fucking lol.
But no, you take that retarded Coalition surplus line, suck it down, and regurgitate it like you actually know something about the world, sunshine.
not too many Labor pollies have gone on to lucrative private sector gigs, usually because none of them have any private sector or real world experience.
Rudd has been a party hack since the day he finished school, he may get a decent wage in the private sector, but it sure as hell won't be lucrative.
"Always"? Because you have a 40 year spread of data? The data can't lie, but the conclusions you draw can be misleading.
Its funny how those figures can also be used to pretty accurately show the boom and bust cycles of the nation. Most of the economy's state is utterly beyond the control of politicians due to our economy's linkage with the roller coaster commodities ride. I've yet to hear the Coalition tell us what they would have done during the GFC other than a vague "less deficit" mantra.
Its easy to pump yourself up when your surplus history and vaunted credentials are based entirely on a boom cycle that you had nothing to do with, all the while spending more as a percentage of GDP, fucking lol.
But no, you take that retarded Coalition surplus line, suck it down, and regurgitate it like you actually know something about the world, sunshine.
if you think that wheeling billions of dollars money out into the street is some sort of financial wizardry then you are truly retarded and there is no hope for you. i shake my head at the outrageous waste the ALP have dressed up as well-thought out schemes. if it wasn't my taxes of course I would laugh at someone else's misfortune.
can you point to me where I suggested anything of the sort.
I think its fair to say that the ALP government of the early 90's and the coalition government of the late 90's & early naughties ensured we suffered very little in face of the GFC, despite the current government efforts to set us back 40 years.
The GFC can be blamed for all sorts of things, but the current state of the budget is not one of them. It played a part, but gross mismanagement and poor policy have been the main contributors
Whether he's a good appointment or not, Gillar has a pathological problem with the truth and has terrible judgement.
She panics, tells a lie and then gets stuck with the lie can can't seem to get away from it. Less than 5 days after a resounding caucus victory, she has now shown her poor political judgement once again.
In spite of the popular view that she's tough, she has a glass jaw. She speaks in absolutes when she's trying to defend herself against damaging accusations, rather than taking the embarrassment head on and moving on. She then has to twist and turn like John Travolta to dig herself out of her own dishonesty.
On a somewhat related note, just received a pamphlet in the mail with all the broken promises Anna Bligh has achieved in her Premiership. Made me laugh cause they are all true.
She panics, tells a lie and then gets stuck with the lie can can't seem to get away from it. Less than 5 days after a resounding caucus victory, she has now shown her poor political judgement once again.
i said give it 2 weeks before another blunder was a few days.
seriously she just lies constantly.