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Bicycles on the Road - what do you think?
Agamemnon
Brisbane, Queensland
982 posts
Firstly I dont ride except for fun occasionally and I tend not to ride on the road mainly because i fear for my safety with all the idiots out there.

When i was a kid though i rode every where so there may be some correlation between population increase and danger or conversely between old age and fear factors ;P

But anyway, i was browsing this weeks edition of ORSM (dont go there if you are scared of bewbs et al) and saw this little video from the riders perspective

http://grab.orsm.net/php/flow.php?file=update20120202/why-cyclists-use-cameras.mp4

I mean seriously... thats just crazy!

What do you think?
04:55pm 05/02/12 Permalink
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04:55pm 05/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16227 posts
ive just started riding a road bike on weekends

no intention of riding on the road, i have scoped out the bike paths around me and i can get from aspley to the hornibrook bridge by bike paths and a tiny bit of back street (literally a couple of hundred meters in an estate)

i havent checked out the bike paths that go anywhere else yet but once at the hornibrook bridge you can go across and ride around to redcliffe or go around to sandgate which is plenty for me when i get better at it

there is also paths righ through the wetlands and shiz. i see no need to ride on the road
05:07pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Kiminoth
Perth, Western Australia
30 posts
Generally they're not too bad, Perth has enough cycleways they I generally don't see them too much.
Pisses me off when I see them riding down the highway and things like that though. But that's a rare occasion.
05:07pm 05/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2166 posts
a $10 once of rego fee (just like a power wheel chair, or mobility scooter)

then they can play on the road, the rego would make people accountable for actions, such as running red lights, speeding, not giving way etc, just like most road users
05:09pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
19819 posts
Fuck riding on the road. I just take bike paths from my place into the city. So much easier and safer.
05:11pm 05/02/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1527 posts
Awesome link. I knew ORSM has boobs but wasnt expecting the overload of boobs when i clicked the link.

No fucking way i would ride on the road. Drivers are crazy and a motorbike is dangerous enough, fuck the no protection of a bicycle. Saw some cyclist down at the stafford and gympie road intersection this morning at approx 9.15am. Ambulance was there are the cyclist was lying flat on his back posed like jesus on the cross with a tunnel worker and what i assume was his work ute close by. Im guessing the ute nailed him cause its a pretty crazy intersection there.
05:12pm 05/02/12 Permalink
gamer
2241 posts
The moment bikes pay rego like I have to then i'll allow them on my roads... untill then FUCK OFF and read the local council laws that state bikes ARE ALLOWED to ride on the footpaths.

The amount of fucking clueless wanker bikes i've cut off, stopped, ripped them off their bike and explained this too when they are forcing 100 cars to drive at 20km/H in a 50-60km/h zone because there is only one lane and it's dangerous to go around them when there is a fucking footpath right next to the road with a ramp entrance every 50 meters.
05:14pm 05/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2289 posts
Yeah I try to stay on bike paths and slowly on footpaths, I don't see many people walking these days so footpaths are usually empty. I've never had a problem riding on the road though.

As a driver, I don't have a problem with bike riders on the road, most of the bike riders I've seen are fine, but there are a fair few cocks. For instance yesterday driving up a quiet street at 30 (50 zone, but there are lot's of kid's on that particular street) and there are two bikes (in lycra) coming towards me in the middle of the road, I hover my foot over the brake and one bike moves to his side of the road, nice, second decides to go between me and a parked car on my side of the road (there were no other cars around). O.o
05:17pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3100 posts
This topic has been covered ad nauseum .

I made the mention that I thought cyclists should be identifiable on the road as motorists are. I originally suggested they should pay a small registration for the right to cycle on say main roads or something like that. (main roads only of course where there is heavy traffic) It might help improve there safety and the safety of others. Even a free registration however I still am of the opinion if you want to use the road infrastructure you should be paying a fee that correlates to the level of impact you have. Bikes a very small impact, so a very small registration fee could be charged. Any accidents, parties are identifiable. (on both sides).

That being said, I always give cyclists as much room as possible and slow down for safety when I pass them. Including not being an ass-hole and endangering them by squeezing past when there is not room putting the cyclist in danger. I haven't had any bad experiences or seen any accidents. I respect there right to use the road safely.

Are there enough cycleways made available ? What can be done to give cyclists more options.
05:20pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11808 posts
You should pay $100 per year for a bicycle license.

They should then dedicate this money to building amazing off-road bicycle paths.
05:21pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Ha
Brisbane, Queensland
171 posts
bike riders are bad people. like, fundamentally terrible. i endorse anything that makes them worse off or dead.
05:22pm 05/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2291 posts
You should pay $100 per year for a bicycle license.

They should then dedicate this money to building amazing off-road bicycle paths.


I think that would deter a few people, I'd pay it but it would have to include free registration for under 16's (not 14).
05:25pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3101 posts
They just need to specify that if you want to ride up gympie road to get to work in the morning you need to have a rego/license to do it. Put an age limit on it as well. Funnell the money into upgrades of bike lanes on main roads, tracks etc etc.
05:29pm 05/02/12 Permalink
bepatient
Melbourne, Victoria
842 posts
My push bike is my main method of transportation - primarily roads.

So sick of hearing all this bullshit about cyclists being dicks, I know there are dickheads but people forget how many fuckhead drivers are out there too. When cycling through the city I have to be a dickhead sometimes just to survive and avoid fuckheads who do not understand how to drive properly. I'm definitely not saying we are innocent, in fact the worst imo, is when you have people riding side by side on the road. I understand its legal, but its fucking stupid.

Running red lights, merging without signalling and general cuntfuckerry is too often pointed at cyclists without mentioning why we do it sometimes.

$100 per year for a bicycle license is massive overkill imo, it doesn't even cost that much to register a jetski or trailer every 12 months. I'm not saying we shouldn't be charged at all, but $100 is excessive.
05:30pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4650 posts
I hate cyclists as much as the next driver, but i still give them plenty of room when overtaking, i barely clean mud off my car let alone having to bother getting some cunts blood off it.
05:33pm 05/02/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14461 posts
aren't the cyclists in london a real nuisance though? mainly the cycling couriers?
05:34pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3102 posts
I agree bepatient. It's a stereotype however not all motorists are cunts either. I try my best to share the road safely.

Jet ski's don't really require infrastructure put in place by the government though :p. I would imagine the registration concept is that you pay for the facilities as do the motorists. 100 $ may be excessive for sure.
05:36pm 05/02/12 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5220 posts
I recently got a bike to ride around my 'burb in Melbourne. I was a bit of anti bikes when I was driving but now I understand why people ride instead of drive and it's awesome. We usually ride to and from local restaurants and cafes weekends and weeknights. I would hate to ride into town though, scary as hell with all the surly city workers behind the wheel.

While we're reforming the road rules and getting cyclists to pay rego, we should also implement congestion charges in all major east coast cities, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne which would solve a lot of grievances from both sides.
05:37pm 05/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2167 posts
My push bike is my main method of transportation - primarily roads.

So sick of hearing all this bullshit about cyclists being dicks, I know there are dickheads but people forget how many fuckhead drivers are out there too. When cycling through the city I have to be a dickhead sometimes just to survive and avoid fuckheads who do not understand how to drive properly. I'm definitely not saying we are innocent, in fact the worst imo, is when you have people riding side by side on the road. I understand its legal, but its fucking stupid.

Running red lights, merging without signalling and general cuntfuckerry is too often pointed at cyclists without mentioning why we do it sometimes.

$100 per year for a bicycle license is massive overkill imo, it doesn't even cost that much to register a jetski or trailer every 12 months. I'm not saying we shouldn't be charged at all, but $100 is excessive.



so what are the reasons you run red lights, lane split in heavy traffic merge without signaling and other cuntfuckery??

because other than saving time or because it is too hard to stop and start again, I can't think of any reason, as for the reason i thought of, they are not good enough!
05:37pm 05/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2292 posts
Where I grew up in Exeter, England there were no cars in the town centre, just buses, bikes, pedestrians, limos and cabs, I liked that.
05:38pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4651 posts
The moment bikes pay rego like I have to then i'll allow them on my roads.
You're doing a pretty shit job of keeping them off the roads gamer.
05:40pm 05/02/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6101 posts
aren't the cyclists in london a real nuisance though? mainly the cycling couriers?

no not really. but then the average traffic speed in central london is 12kms/hr. So your always overtaking cars.

The moment bikes pay rego like I have to then i'll allow them on my roads.


I ride on roads. I pay car rego, and do about 1000kms a year of driving. Why should I pay anymore? After all, I AM ONE LESS CAR ON THE ROAD. Get that through your thick fucking heads. Make rego cost / km!

last edited by mooby at 18:01:20 05/Feb/12
05:58pm 05/02/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6102 posts
without signaling and other cuntfuckery??

so many muppets in cars dont signal when turning.
05:59pm 05/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16228 posts
yes because it would be plausable to judge everyone by how many kilometers they drive by car and then apply a rego - if they didnt drive many kilometers in their car

that is a well thought out statement there
06:01pm 05/02/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6103 posts
yes because it would be plausable to judge everyone by how many kilometers

submit reading... pay. whats so hard?

Motorists should be taxed for every kilometre they drive in peak hour, a transport expert says.

Professor David Hensher, director of the Institute of Transport and Logistic Studies at the University of Sydney, will be a key speaker at the NSW Transport Infrastructure Summit in Sydney on Wednesday.

He'll join NRMA director David Bentham and City of Sydney transport strategy manager Terry Lee-Williams to discuss ways of easing traffic congestion.

Prof Hensher believes that dumping the registration charge and fuel excise, and charging motorists for when they drive will ease congestion and lead to a fairer system.

The institute's plan to overhaul the current roads tax system is also outlined in a document tabled at the federal government's tax forum on Tuesday.

"People pay the same amount to register the same vehicle, but some people might travel 15,000km a year and others might travel 10,000," Prof Hensher told AAP on Tuesday.


Nah, professors never think ideas through... http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8355537

last edited by mooby at 18:05:44 05/Feb/12
06:03pm 05/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16229 posts
lol so everyone has to take their car down and get it checked each time they pay rego?

send a photo?

tracked by gps? (facey would love that)

a congestion charge for driving in the city like in london would be easier to get people off roads where it is required.

so how many kms should you have to keep under in your to warrant not paying any road riding rego?

what would stop me saying i drive 1000km a year and getting free bike riding as well?

i dont think that much money needs to be paid if at all for a rego system, as someone else mentioned *some* sort of system just so people can be accountable would be all that is needed.

i personally hate bikes on the road, mainly gives me the fucking shits in peak hour on main roads and these fuckheads are on the road slowing shit down when shit has already been fucked up just by the traffic itself


06:14pm 05/02/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7326 posts
In an ideal world cyclists would have their own paths. However this is simply not viable.

in an world not populated by dicks, cyclists should try not to slow down traffic and, despite the law saying you can ride two wide, stick to single file to minimise disruption to motorists. aside from that they should abide all other rises such as no lane splitting red lights and stop/giveway signs, etc. motorists should in turn give plenty of space when passing.

sadly, dicks come in all shapes, sizes, colours, and methods of transportation.
06:14pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6367 posts
The moment bikes pay rego like I have to then i'll allow them on my roads...
Your roads? You know roads are older than cars, right?
06:16pm 05/02/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7327 posts
on this topic, i was going for a run yesterday morning along the river at toowong and some jerkoff on a bike nearly took me out . i think i called him a few four letter words and after nearly taking out the people in front of me the third group kicked him off his
bike. hilarity ensued and he was too much of a girl to do anything.
06:17pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4398 posts
Pay per km is one of those crazy boffin ideas that sounds good in theory but would actually be abysmal in practice and therefore will never see the light of day.

How would a foolproof system of apportioning 'peak travel' vs 'off peak travel' be created without motorists having to buy some expensive gps logging device attached to the car and without any rorts popping up? Even if such a system were possible to create, a big percentage of motorists that find themselves now paying through the nose for what was previously much, much cheaper would become extremely pissed off.
06:19pm 05/02/12 Permalink
carson
Gippsland, Victoria
1478 posts
While we're reforming the road rules and getting cyclists to pay rego, we should also implement congestion charges in all major east coast cities, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne which would solve a lot of grievances from both sides.

I'd be on board with this.
06:21pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3103 posts
I ride on roads. I pay car rego, and do about 1000kms a year of driving. Why should I pay anymore? After all, I AM ONE LESS CAR ON THE ROAD. Get that through your thick fucking heads. Make rego cost / km!


If you own two cars you pay two regos? Same with trailers. Why would the concept be any different for bicycles?
06:25pm 05/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16230 posts
Pay per km is one of those crazy boffin ideas that sounds good in theory but would actually be abysmal in practice and therefore will never see the light of day.



BUT A PROFESSOR HAD AN IDEA
06:28pm 05/02/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14462 posts
on this topic, i was going for a run yesterday morning along the river at toowong and some jerkoff on a bike nearly took me out . i think i called him a few four letter words and after nearly taking out the people in front of me the third group kicked him off his


i thought the bike track and walkway had been separated there because so many bike riders were hitting pedestrians.
06:30pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4399 posts
Heh, maybe professors should be taxed a certain amount per unworkable idea so they'd generate less crazy ideas and more useful ideas per year.
06:35pm 05/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2293 posts
on this topic, i was going for a run yesterday morning along the river at toowong and some jerkoff on a bike nearly took me out . i think i called him a few four letter words and after nearly taking out the people in front of me the third group kicked him off his
bike. hilarity ensued and he was too much of a girl to do anything.


Under the bridge next to the casino a rider spat on me, I was on the far left, by myself, not in the way, no other people around, he didn't expect me to be able to sprint at him and shove him into the water (there are or were no barriers in that section of path).
06:38pm 05/02/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8865 posts
No cyclists shouldn't be on the road. I've hit one already, and I'm not done.
06:44pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2805 posts
link

I'm a bike commuter. Bikes and cars can co-exist on the road - everyone (drivers and cyclists) just needs to show a bit of common sense and respect to eachother. Take the extra 15-20 seconds to wait to overtake a cyclist safely if you have to - your journey is not more important than them.

Happy to pay some extra rego if it means we get our own dedicated lanes on every road. Otherwise, I pay car rego already, so I have a right to be there. But where possible I stick to the bike paths because I know too many drivers do not want to share the road. I even ride the wrong direction for a couple of KM's each morning just so I can join up to a bike path rather than riding on Logan Road.
07:17pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8581 posts
Otherwise, I pay car rego already, so I have a right to be there.

umm, no you dont have the 'right' to be there unless you pay to register the vehicle your traveling in and pay for the road upkeep. Which you dont for that vehicle...

Just like people with motorbikes have to pay rego pushy owners should too if they want to drive on roads and act like a car taking up an entire lane trying to impress the office ladies with their 'tour de france calves', $500 aero-lycra pants and a 10k bike... nigga please....

07:22pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8582 posts
Under the bridge next to the casino a rider spat on me, I was on the far left, by myself, not in the way, no other people around, he didn't expect me to be able to sprint at him and shove him into the water (there are or were no barriers in that section of path).


hahaha thats awesome, ive seen a push-bike rider hit a pedestrian in the back of the heels; start abusing the person as he was clearly 'twanging his bell' so old mate turned around and ko'd the bike rider who collapse akwardly into a garden bed =)

Was one of the top 10 funniest things ive ever seen while working
07:28pm 05/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1959 posts
It seems like the attitude of biking in Brisbane for the foreseeable future will be one of tolerance, and not acceptance, and with that a simmering dose of resentment that lashes out at opportune moments, ala Shane Warne

last edited by dranged at 19:33:47 05/Feb/12
07:30pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2806 posts
According to QLD legislation, yes I do have a right to be there :) Even without paying registration.

Look it up, I'll wait.
07:31pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8583 posts
there are alot of rules in the legislation that bike riders dont abide by so dont get all high and mighty behind your legislation.

here is just a short list of things i see bike riders do wrong everyday
- Riding alongside other bike riders
- give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.
- Bike riders not to cause a traffic hazard (ie dont ride like you own the road as you will lose against a car)

http://www.woj.com.au/AustRoadRulespts1-21.pdf

07:41pm 05/02/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7328 posts
It seems like the attitude of biking in Brisbane for the foreseeable future will be one of tolerance, and not acceptance, and with that a simmering dose of resentment that lashes out at opportune moments, ala Shane Warnelast edited by dranged at 19:33:47 05/Feb/12

Warnie is god. The cyclist shouldn't have been in warnie's way.
07:41pm 05/02/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14464 posts
Riding alongside other bike riders


they're allowed to ride a max of 2 abreast.
07:43pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2807 posts
there are alot of rules in the legislation that bike riders dont abide by so dont get all high and mighty behind your legislation. here is just a short list of things i see bike riders do wrong everyday

- Riding alongside other bike riders
- give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.
- Bike riders not to cause a traffic hazard (ie dont ride like you own the road as you will lose against a car)


I completely agree. I never ride abreast over another rider on the road unless I am trying to overtake them. I ride as close to the gutter as I can so car's can still SAFELY try to overtake me. I ring my bell if I am approaching a pedestrian from behind on a bike path to let them know I am coming, and slow down just in case they jump the wrong way.

It is true what has been said in this thread already - a small portion of cyclists do give others a bad name/rep. But a rider never sets out to try to harm a driver (and it would be fairly unlikely they actually could). Making cyclists pay a rego will never change the mentality and mindset of the worst drivers though. Everyone chill the fuck out on the road and we will all be just fine.
07:47pm 05/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12436 posts
lol holy fuck i cant believe how blatant those drivers are towards the bikes
if it were me I would be kicking mirrors off left right and center

edit: holy fuck i just finished watching the video, fuck the mirrors I'd carry a hammer and just fuck their cars up while they watch from the drivers seat
that guy is lucky to be alive after a few of those
07:53pm 05/02/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14466 posts
looks like many of them were cabbies. guess they're shitty drivers all over the world.
07:55pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
19320 posts
Motorbikes = fine because they can move at speed
Cunts on pusbikes = fuck off my road because your'e a danger to other motorists because you can't follow the rules.

The number of twats I've seen who don't ride single file, or who ride IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING LANE doing 10kph who then cause me to have to drive up the wrong side of the road (and cross a double white line to do so) amazes me, I just want to get out & punch them in the face with a road rules booklet.

I have no issue with push bike riders who do follow the rules and who do ride as far to the side as possible, I'm happy to share my road with you and I'm quite happy to move over slightly to give you at least 1 or 2 metres of safety room. But when you ride in the middle of the road, 3 abreast and make me cross double lines and drive on the wrong side? No, fuck off, I hope you get run over by a steam roller.
07:57pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Skitza
Brisbane, Queensland
9702 posts
Anyone that hates cyclists on the road is a complete sK. We as a country are ignorant towards them because we don't know any better and are selfish to share. yes I ride on the road and yes I drive a car, its not fucking hard.

That video shows exactly what its like. Ive almost been put under a trucks wheels cause the fuckwit got too close. The brushes on the wheels brushed over the top of my arm and I was pinned against the curb with no where to go down Kingsford smith drive. Fuck me I was /raging hard.
08:00pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8584 posts
whoop: the best thing is when they turn around and start going off at you; like its your fault you drive a car and want to go faster than 10km an hr
08:00pm 05/02/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1529 posts
Just watched the first part of the vid. Fucking insane how dangerous. I suppose its like what i see riding my motorbike, cars either dont see you or dont give a fuck because they assume you will give way cause should you collide, you will get fucked up way worse.
08:41pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3104 posts
Otherwise, I pay car rego already, so I have a right to be there


This is the part I disagree with. It's a second vehicle, albeit a much smaller, more economical version. If i had a motorbike and a car I would have to pay rego for both. I just don't understand your logic here. People have to pay rego on boats and jet skis when they don't even see the water sometimes.

I don't think anyone is saying it should be a huge fee, just something small.

The brushes on the wheels brushed over the top of my arm and I was pinned against the curb with no where to go down Kingsford smith drive



Industrial area, wouldn't you expect trucks? Is there any alternative to using the road there or not? no paths? I know there is a path running along the water side coming out of the city.
08:49pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5437 posts
As long as they follow the rules (all the rules) and don't do any *dick moves, I'm ok with it. Though I wish there was more dedicated lanes and they actually used the ones they have.

Support registration for identification purposes and as a token gesture towards roads so that people can't claim 'They don't pay anything!!!one eleven!' when really Rego is a small drop in the water for Roads infrastructure.

*Dick moves include (but not limited to)
Passing cars at a Red light and taking off slow, forcing the same cars who carefully (or not...) passed you already.
Leaning on someone's car when stopped at said light
Getting narky at pedestrians for the same reasons Cars get narky at you... then complain about the cars doing citing 'I have the Right'
Using a busy commute road for your morning ride, where there are other safer (and faster) alternatives for Bikes. Especially when your doing a loop and not commuting yourself.
Riding on the road when there is a dedicated Cycle way. Or on-top of the White line, when you have 2m of Bike lane to your left.
Switching from 'Road Vehicle' to 'Side walk Pedestrian', Pick one. Doing both makes you unpredictable and dangerous.
08:59pm 05/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
588 posts
Arguing against cyclists on the road is like arguing against speeding fines. If you want to get the laws changed, do something about it. Until then, a cyclist on the road obeying the road rules is doing the right thing and if you're even a little intolerant of it, it's you doing the wrong thing.

I had a numpty have a huge cry at me about 2 weeks ago because I was doing 20km/h in the left lane of a two lane road early one Sunday morning and he was going too fast around a blind corner when he caught me. He then proceeded to shout at me as he passed about how much of a danger I was on the road and when I shouted back for him to pull over and talk if he felt so strongly about it he stopped dead in the middle of an intersection to try and do so.

Of course, if you don't understand why driving at a speed that you might hit something on the road that you can't see is dangerous, nor that stopping in the middle of an intersection for no reason other than to yell things at people on the road doing what they should is dangerous, you're not the best judge of who is operating their vehicle in a dangerous manner. I was unable to convince him of that (unsurprisingly) so he ended up finally becoming aware of his surroundings in the middle of the intersection and drove off.

Not all people are sk's, but boy there sure are some that are.

With the surge of cycling in Brisbane it's sadly going to take a few more deaths and serious injuries before the inevitable crack down and increase in cycling awareness campaigns.

There'll always be SKs though, so do what you can to stay out of their way.

On the comment about car rego on a per km basis, one thing I'd like to see is some kind of ongoing testing/teaching program for vehicle operation. It's completely infeasible, but I can't help but think that it might help things greatly to have people who are 10+ years out of date with their road knowledge being retrained.

Of course, in the fullness of time we'll have our driving privileges taken away from us because of the small number of people who just can't help themselves. We'll all jump into our little transport bubbles and they'll take us where we ask to go as efficiently as possible. The writing is on the wall. It might even happen in our lifetime.
09:14pm 05/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
589 posts
Bike rego will happen when there's enough of a reason for it. The government isn't exactly against taking people's money.

Having said that, I don't see it happening in the near future. Logistically, charging bicycles a small fee would result in money being lost through the overhead of running the program, and charging a large fee is counter-productive to encouraging people to ride (which is something that the BCC don't want to do considering Brisbane's road congestion issues).
09:18pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
4896 posts
I don't think this has ever been mentioned before in one of these threads.

http://www.connectingseq.qld.gov.au/

That is the state governments goals for mode based travel in SEQ by 2031.

If you look at Brisbane for example they want to change travel from:

Public Transport: 2006 10.3% 2031 20%
Walking: 2006 10.6% 2031 13%
Cycling: 2006 1.0% 2031 11%
Car: 2006 78.1% 2031 56% <---- FYI if that happens internal to BCC there would be 320,000 fewer trips in 2031 by car than in 2006.

So basically the state government wants to double the proportion of all travel by bus and increase cycling from 1% to 11%.

There is no way that will happen without much better on road AND off road AND end of trip cycling facilities. Whether you think they should be on road or off it is pretty clear from that document that the state wants them to be anywhere and everywhere.

09:25pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
4897 posts
Oh btw Moobys article above which talks about a user pays system per kilometer has been around and considered for the last 20-30 years as a concept. The reason it has never been implemented is privacy. There would need to be a way for vehicles to be tracked to know how many kilometres they have traveled, where they traveled (i.e. should not have to pay for travel in NSW with a QLD registration OR having used a toll route that the govt does not own or maintain) and what time of day (i.e. encourage peak spreading by lower travel cost by time of day).

You can't track all of that and not encroach on privacy laws.
09:25pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
4898 posts
lol holy fuck i cant believe how blatant those drivers are towards the bikes
if it were me I would be kicking mirrors off left right and center

edit: holy fuck i just finished watching the video, fuck the mirrors I'd carry a hammer and just fuck their cars up while they watch from the drivers seat
that guy is lucky to be alive after a few of those


Mate of my dads used to ride a motorbike with a fkn bowie knife in a sheath on the side. You cut him off or endanger him then next set of traffic lights one of your tires would have a puncture. Mind you this dude was half nuts.
09:28pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Raider
Brisbane, Queensland
3861 posts
i hate bikes on roads also on closer inspection, half the time that cunt was in the road not the bike lane

last edited by Raider at 21:41:50 05/Feb/12
09:37pm 05/02/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1530 posts
Mate of my dads used to ride a motorbike with a fkn bowie knife in a sheath on the side. You cut him off or endanger him then next set of traffic lights one of your tires would have a puncture. Mind you this dude was half nuts.

Thats fucking awesome except for when travelling on the highway. Plus id assume that the cars would report your license plate and bike description to police and after a few incidents the cops would come knocking.
10:23pm 05/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1960 posts
I strongly think that cyclists respect and are more disciplined about road rules, as a general rule, than motorists. Having your ass on the line for a digression, obviously, will hurt more in lycra, and, there's a very real camaraderie out there among bikers about actively obeying and being seen to obey the rules, because there's a very real chance that being a fuckwit today means some poor bastard gets owned tomorrow by a disgruntled motorist -
11:02pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Persay
Brisbane, Queensland
7462 posts
i have ridden 30km to work in peak hour through the toowong roundabout on a $200 big w mountain bike special

fuck cars, you're useless
11:56pm 05/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11809 posts
You can't track all of that and not encroach on privacy laws.

Load it into the price of fuel and allow non road users (farmers etc) an exemption.
12:04am 06/02/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8786 posts
Get off the road if you can't contain you RAGE!1@#!@# at having to occasionally wait a few seconds for a cyclist now and then.
12:06am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12443 posts
Load it into the price of fuel and allow non road users (farmers etc) an exemption.


I'm pretty sure he means like, the gubberments could track where you've been if they're keeping tabs on your km's
12:13am 06/02/12 Permalink
Vash
3431 posts
Cyclists shouldn't pay a cent.
What is damaging the roads? What is causing congestion? Cars.
If everyone rode bicycles to work we wouldnt need such heavy investment in a road network.

Also, i support cyclists running red lights and basically doing whatever they want to flow through traffic, as long as they do it safely. Theres no reason to wait at a red light for a bicycle, a car is made up of 2tonne of steel, a bicycle weighs what, 15kg?
I always run red lights, use pedestrian crossings to get through as fast as possible, head check and never had a close call. Do it with a smart head and its fine.
12:20am 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11810 posts
I'm pretty sure he means like, the gubberments could track where you've been if they're keeping tabs on your km's

Yes and I'm saying that a user pays system can be integrated to the to fuel price rather than tracking kilometers travelled.
I always run red lights, use pedestrian crossings to get through as fast as possible, head check and never had a close call. Do it with a smart head and its fine.

You're saying its ok for a vehicle to run red lights if you check first?
12:33am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12444 posts
Cyclists shouldn't pay a cent.
What is damaging the roads? What is causing congestion? Cars.
If everyone rode bicycles to work we wouldnt need such heavy investment in a road network.


Without such heavy investment there wouldn't be a road network for cyclists to ride on
It's not like they could just not have tarmac roads because there was no cars, tarmac is pretty much the cheapest of the cheap ways to surface a road, otherwise bikes would be back on dirt roads

Bikes are obviously a nusciance to motorists, maybe not every motorist cares, but certainly enough do.
Motorists pay, why wouldn't others be expected to pay for access? even if it were a much less significant amount.


Also, i support cyclists running red lights and basically doing whatever they want to flow through traffic, as long as they do it safely. Theres no reason to wait at a red light for a bicycle, a car is made up of 2tonne of steel, a bicycle weighs what, 15kg?
I always run red lights, use pedestrian crossings to get through as fast as possible, head check and never had a close call. Do it with a smart head and its fine.


You are fucking stupid, where there is a red light, there is also a green light.

Yes and I'm saying that a user pays system can be integrated to the to fuel price rather than tracking kilometers travelled.


Right well, you have't actually offered any kind of solution, just saying "integrate it into the fuel price" doesn't actually give any idea of what you mean
Are you saying make fuel more expensive, another tax?

Consider that some cars get 5L/100km and some get 20L/100km, also hybrids and electric vehicles etc
12:42am 06/02/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
8867 posts
I wish they'd add a thing to cars that pushes cyclists over without technically 'hitting' them. Argue on forums all you want, but there's only one way to teach them.
01:15am 06/02/12 Permalink
Vash
3432 posts
You're saying its ok for a vehicle to run red lights if you check first?


Bicycles yes. Cars, No.
Theres no problem at all doing it, besides it being illegal. Check the direction that traffic is coming from, all clear? go! its not rocket science. Just because a light on the street tells you to stop.. doesn't bother me at all.
Cars are a different story, heavy, capable of maiming and killing lots of people if someone fucks up.

Adding to that also, there are certain situations i wouldn't dream of running a red, such as a high speed highway. Im talking city riding where the traffic is moving slower.
01:47am 06/02/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7329 posts
Vash quote of the year:
There's no problem at all doing it, besides it being illegal.
06:25am 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6446 posts
I think it's Toronto that allows cyclists to treat red lights as stop signs.
It seems to work, even though I'm not sure I agree with it.

It just shits me off the wankers you get who run red lights and give the rest of us a bad name, then you get 600 commenters on news.com.au and theage with an IQ below 100 ranting about how all cyclists always run red lights.

Most people are pretty impatient, which is why they'll blame anything they can find for making their trip take longer than is physically possible other than their own actions, or something whereby fixing it might require changing their own behaviours. It's amusing, you get 800 cars lined up at the end of the Eastern Freeway, and not a bike in sight to cause all that congestion.
Similarly I'm sick of uninformed motoristss claiming cyclists don't pay for the roads which rates and other taxes pay for (not rego), on roads that were originally built for cycling long before the motor vehicle came along.
07:27am 06/02/12 Permalink
jmr
Brisbane, Queensland
7569 posts
Why the fuck shouldn't we ride on the road, the lanes in Australia are like 1.5 cars wide, if you can't go around a cyclist you are obviously down's.

Drivers in Brisbane are so inconsiderate and oblivious - having just come back from Byron it is more evident after seeing everyone riding around with no helmets and noticing how much space cars give them. Here however, it is like cars are trying to get as close as they can without technically hitting cyclists.
07:53am 06/02/12 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3142 posts
I don't think this has ever been mentioned before in one of these threads.

http://www.connectingseq.qld.gov.au/

That is the state governments goals for mode based travel in SEQ by 2031.

If you look at Brisbane for example they want to change travel from:

Public Transport: 2006 10.3% 2031 20%
Walking: 2006 10.6% 2031 13%
Cycling: 2006 1.0% 2031 11%
Car: 2006 78.1% 2031 56% <---- FYI if that happens internal to BCC there would be 320,000 fewer trips in 2031 by car than in 2006.

They sure are going the right way about this by upping public transport costs by 15% each year! That's not encouraging people to drive their cars at all.
07:54am 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
590 posts
They don't need to worry about keeping costs down to get people on public transport.

As long as the public transport networks can reach people, the ever-increasing congestion will do the hard work of getting people to use it.
08:20am 06/02/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18365 posts
every bicycle on the road means one less car, means less traffic. i'm all for it.
08:38am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5440 posts
What is damaging the roads?


Weather and Heavy Vehicles (note: Not so much Cars) mainly. But thanks for playing.

Motorists pay, why wouldn't others be expected to pay for access?


Local Government are responsible for a hell of a lot of roads and cycle ways. Don't get any Rego monies. Rate payers (mainly) pay for roads and maintenance.

built for cycling long before the motor vehicle came along.


I would have guessed Horse and Cart, but building specifically for Bikes sounds interesting. Got any reference for that?
08:42am 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11811 posts
Right well, you have't actually offered any kind of solution, just saying "integrate it into the fuel price" doesn't actually give any idea of what you mean

I was pretty clear what I was talking about.
Are you saying make fuel more expensive, another tax?

Consider that some cars get 5L/100km and some get 20L/100km, also hybrids and electric vehicles etc

Oh so it would be a motivation to use more efficient cars as well? Must be a bad idea, then.
08:44am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5441 posts
I think it would be an unfair Tax on people who require more powerful vehicles. Either for work or Personal (4x4) reasons.

What you see as engouragement, I see as a Punishment. Like the Alcho-pop tax.
08:51am 06/02/12 Permalink
casa
Brisbane, Queensland
4450 posts

I ride a road bike, however I like to live dangerously. Scary video in that thread which probably happens to me on my commute approx. once every 1-2 months, it is really rare in Brisbane. People are (generally) not shit-heads on the road.

If you're copping that shit often then you're probably doing it wrong (or you live in London).

It fucks me off because the only real big run in I've had was with a fucking bus driver of all people. The cunts that I religiously give way too when I'm in my car whilst 99% of every other prick does not. This one bus driver completely cut me off and then slammed on his breaks right in front of me, my only options were to ride up his ass or swurve into peak hour traffic, which I chose the latter. Fortunately, the guy in the car who would have killed me was all over it and stopped to let me through, then continued to drive past me and asked if I was OK.


last edited by casa at 08:56:37 06/Feb/12
08:53am 06/02/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18368 posts
bicycles have zero wear and tear on roads. they don't need to pay anything extra.

did anyone see my letter to the editor last week about 4wds paying our paul syret?

last edited by infi at 09:00:15 06/Feb/12
08:56am 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
591 posts
There seems to be two directions for bike rego from those calling for it:

1) There's no accountability.
2) There's no cost.

1) People who cause accidents are already accountable. Registration doesn't change that. People who do things that are against the road rules are already held accountable if police see them. Just like cars. Registration isn't what makes cars accountable. If police don't see them, they won't get busted. This is the way cars work too.

2) The cost issue is the other bugbear. The same people who complain of the government squeezing them for every dollar are the same people who think that the government wouldn't be charging bicycles if it made fiscal/popular sense.

Bike rego will exist when it makes sense.
08:57am 06/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2301 posts
People who cause accidents are already accountable. Registration doesn't change that. People who do things that are against the road rules are already held accountable if police see them. Just like cars. Registration isn't what makes cars accountable. If police don't see them, they won't get busted. This is the way cars work too.


Who was it on here who got bailed over by a bike rider and fucked his shoulder, the bike rider just rode away and with no identification of a rego plate never to be seen again?
09:02am 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3942 posts
I see a recurring theme of "they run red lights, waah!" in this thread. It seems like such a toddler response, I'm angry cyclists get something I want it too. As opposed to riding two abreast, which I agree is an absolute problem for drivers regardless of its legality I haven't seen any explanation of how cyclists running a red light or stop assigns affects your driving experience.

The funny thing is that the legal alternative would actually have a real, negative impact on drivers. Shall I come to a stop in the middle of the left hand lane (remember, no lane splitting!) so you can wait behind me while I slowly go from 0 to 20km? With all the cyclist hate here I would think you geniuses would have come to the obvious conclusion: cyclists running red lights gets them away from you and off your precious road quicker.
09:08am 06/02/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15140 posts
Registration isn't what makes cars accountable. If police don't see them, they won't get busted. This is the way cars work too.
there's a unique number at the back and front of my car that helps with identification in these situations.
09:11am 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3943 posts
Who was it who got bailed over by a car driver and died, the car driver just drove away and with no visibility of a rego plate never to be seen again?
09:12am 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11812 posts
I think it would be an unfair Tax on people who require more powerful vehicles. Either for work or Personal (4x4) reasons.

What you see as engouragement, I see as a Punishment. Like the Alcho-pop tax.

You already pay more tax on petrol if you use more petrol. As mentioned work use attracts a rebate. Sure keeping your fuel receipts would be annoying but oh well, if you use a vehicle for work then you likely already do this to claim the costs anyway.

Sorry but I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people using large vehicles for their daily driver because they also go 4x4ing recreationally. Feels like the sort of thing a user pays system should be targetting?

Don't fret though, its not likely to be implemented anytime soon so you can continue to drive a monster truck to work :)
09:14am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5442 posts
There seems to be two directions for bike rego from those calling for it:


My Brother rides on his road bike all the time. When cars are dicks, he takes the number plate, gives it to the cops. They track those things. It's not just the Police having to see them. Mental pointed out another situation as well. That happened to one of our very own IIRC.

Of course it wouldn't be popular. It getting money off people that aren't currently paying you anything. Who would want to pay money when they don't think they have to?
09:14am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5443 posts
Sure keeping your fuel receipts would be annoying but oh well, if you use a vehicle for work then you likely already do this to claim the costs anyway.


All goes on the Fuel card for work Vehicle, so wouldn't need to keep receipts. It could track/rebate it all I guess.

I don't use my 4x4 as a Daily driver (Use the Work 4x4 :p) but for people that can only afford 1 car and they would like something they can use on the weekends, I understand how it would be hard to have to pay extra. Especially when the difference in wear and tear on the road between a Family Sedan and a Mid-Sized 4wd is 2 tenths of fuck all.

With that said though... we already have inconsistency in the Rego payments because of the arbitrary limits they set for vehicles (Like a V8 4wd has to pay more than the Exact same fucking 4wd with a Diesel engine)

I can see where it would be a good thing, but I sit on the other side of the fence.
09:19am 06/02/12 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
4899 posts
Yes and I'm saying that a user pays system can be integrated to the to fuel price rather than tracking kilometers travelled.


then you get into the sticky area of interstate travellers having to pay. The only way I could see something like that working is if you federalised registration costs and then distributed the income in an appropriate way.

Of course the next problem is being able to monitor petrol stations / companies to make sure they don't start ripping off consumers.
09:19am 06/02/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4401 posts
It's still not great to integrate an inner city congestion tax into the price of fuel, because you're only going to disadvantage fuel sellers that happen to fall just within the borders of the scheme. When QLD had the 8c per litre subsidy all the mexicans close to the QLD-NSW border were ducking into QLD to fill up because it was cheaper.
09:46am 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
739 posts
Scooter, lets look at the other side then. Why _isn't_ there rego for bikes if everything makes sense about it?
10:01am 06/02/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8585 posts
surfers use to have to register their surf boards! i mean fuck they werent even using roads...
10:02am 06/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2302 posts
Congratulations Nathan O.o

A unique identifying number would make it easier to track down someone who injures another.
10:05am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5446 posts
Reluctant Riders.
There is a push for more Riders, Rego would be conuter-productive to that end.
Administration costs.

That same question could be asked of a great number of things that our State Government curently does/doesn't do.
10:14am 06/02/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8787 posts
if all those cyclists were sitting by themselves in cars, you can bet traffic congestion would be way worse and it would delay your trip more than those cyclists do!
10:16am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12446 posts
Administration costs.


I don't get this, it's just one more form at the department of transport
"Hello I'm here to register my bike"
"Sure that'll be $14 for a year or $28 for 3 years"

right now a cyclist could ride past your car and snap your mirror off (I'm not saying it happens often, but I'm sure it has happened) and unless you chase him down in your car (potentially deadly) you're pretty much stuck with that repair bill
just one example ..

Also running red lights, even if people think they should be able to do it, right now it's against the law - there is no accountability


Sorry but I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people using large vehicles for their daily driver because they also go 4x4ing recreationally. Feels like the sort of thing a user pays system should be targetting?


so it doesn't affect you, what do you care if it costs more basically?
well I think health care should cost more, blow medicare, it doesn't matter to me, I want you to pay more so I can save some tax dollars

that is basically your attitude
10:17am 06/02/12 Permalink
evıs
Brisbane, Queensland
6522 posts
Once a bicycle can achieve a 5 star ANCAP rating, then they can ride on the road. Until then they have a death wish. I don't understand why would would want to ride around traffic and inhale exhaust all day anyway.
10:32am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5447 posts
I don't get this


I don't think you get a lot of things teq, but this one shouldn't be hard to get.
'Just one more form' is one more form. More staff, More lines, More filing, More paperwork, More plates being made. Just more.
It's a cost. It will be more.
10:39am 06/02/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4402 posts
Bikes would need a 5 star ANBAP rating :)
I'd endorse that, if only to see the youtube videos of how they manage to keep the crash test dummies from falling off the bicycle seat.
10:43am 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
740 posts
Reluctant Riders.
There is a push for more Riders, Rego would be conuter-productive to that end.
Administration costs.


Sounds about right to me.
10:56am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12447 posts
I don't think you get a lot of things teq, but this one shouldn't be hard to get.
'Just one more form' is one more form. More staff, More lines, More filing, More paperwork, More plates being made. Just more.
It's a cost. It will be more.


that is not how the DOT operate in my experience, they just make people wait longer
plus you could do all of this online, no need to make people go inside the building
10:56am 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6447 posts
Well, first they would probably put four wheels on it, to stabilise it.
Then they'd have to lower the seat.
To keep the dummy in, they'd need a seatbelt.
And just to further stop him flying out, they'd put a frame around it.
The additional weight of the frame would make it too heavy to pedal, so it now needs an engine.
Giving it an engine though has allowed it to get up to 90km/h easily, so it needs better safety. So more frame and safety features. That means more weight, so a bigger engine.

And so on... :)
10:58am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5448 posts
Yeah, but you have to decide if those reasons are more important then commuter safety and accountability.
IMO they're not.

Even online teq, there are people on the other end. Approving, Maint on the Web Service, etc.

I think a nominal amount for Bikes, enough to cover Admin costs, would be fair. The Insurance companies would be the ones who win in the end though, assuming they would have compulsory Insurance for Bikes as well.
11:00am 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6448 posts
I don't see the point.
That amount of damage cyclists are doing to other peoples property is minimal at best. Pedestrians and kids with spraycans are doing far more damage. Should we require people walking along streets to wear rego plates too?
The amount of damage in medical bills done TO cyclists by motorists who just continue on as if they hadn't done anything wrong FAR outweighs the costs of any damage done by cyclists.

This whole thing is just yet another pathetic attempt from people who don't ride to get rid cyclists from their precious roads.
11:07am 06/02/12 Permalink
Vash
3433 posts
Theres nothing quite like riding my pushie in the city, flying past traffic with just the sound of the wind :)
Eventually would like to build a 2000w+ electric pushie with a 200w switch for the "legalities"
11:07am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12449 posts
I dont think the compulsory insurance would need to apply to bikes too, it's there to protect others in the event of an accident, not the driver/rider.
a bike isn't capable of doing as much damage as a car if it lost control, the only person that would likely die would be the cyclist
11:18am 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5449 posts
I don't see the point.


User safety and accountability are my 2 main points I guess.

Pedestrians and kids are a whole seperate, different issue. That has absolutely nothing to do with Cyclists on the Roads. Thanks for bring them up though.

And Motorists should be paying Rego+Insurance to cover those costs... just like Riders should.

If you had read the majority of my posts in this, and the many other threads on this topic, you would find that I'm all for more Infrastructure for Cyslists. Both on and Off the road reserve. For me, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting cyclists off the roads. Not one bit.

Insurance for running into Pedestrians was the only thing I could think of. CTP Wouldn't cover damage (Accidental or otherwise) on vehicles anyway.
11:22am 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12450 posts
the best part about this whole argument is that cyclists feel superior in some way, like they should be exempt for no other reason than they go slower than everyone else
they go slow .. on a network which is designed for cars that go fast.

they are EXACTLY the same as motorbikes, except for the motor part.
because you don't produce as much co2 means you should be exempt from paying for use of a taxpayer / ratepayer funded road network?
11:28am 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3944 posts
plus you could do all of this online, no need to make people go inside the building
Could you? If we are issuing rego plates (which seems to be one of the main arguments for requiring it) then there needs to be some form of verification that I am who I say I am.

I personally would have no problem with paying rego on my bike, but from a policy perspective its easy to see why it will not happen in the current climate.
11:29am 06/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3105 posts
Vash, do you honestly believe in the posts you make or are you just trolling all the time?

The concept of the argument is simple. If you don't want to pay for the roads then don't complain when the circumstances don't suit you. Sure, safety should be paramount for cyclists. To improve this safety we need better bike lanes, better driver education about how to deal with cyclists on the road. Its a win win for everyone. Until this happens we all need to co-exist and get along so lets just all relax, take a step back and ensure both the drivers and cyclists can happily commute using the facilities provided by our government.
11:38am 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
741 posts
the best part about this whole argument is that cyclists feel superior in some way


hehe
11:59am 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6449 posts
Forgetting the 200kg of destructive mass that a 10kg bike doesn't have ?
12:23pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12452 posts
200kg would be a pretty heavy bike, you're into semantics now anyway because a fat person riding a pushie could weigh the same as a skinny person on a motorbike
12:26pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5451 posts
A 10kg Bike with a 60kg ridier hitting a pedestrian at speed is still going to do some damage. It would be stupid to have the same CTP coverage and premiums for Bikes and cars anyway, no-one suggested that.

Don't be stupid.
12:28pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Outlaw
Gold Coast, Queensland
1357 posts
After watching the original video and seeing how many times the rider could of been killed, makes you wonder why a driver would even get annoyed in the slightest at a bike rider. A car is a tank compared to a bike, huge amount of power at your feet and hands, why someone would need to complain about a small bike on the side of the road is beyond me. Plus they are doing the country a service by riding a bike, staying fit and not polluting.
01:01pm 06/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1961 posts
This whole thing is just yet another pathetic attempt from people who don't ride to get rid cyclists from their precious roads.


I agree - arguing over rego is your standard strawman excuse to distract the real conversation - mutual respect on the road between cyclists and motorists
01:02pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12453 posts
arguing over rego is your standard strawman excuse to distract the real conversation


what a bullshit argument

lets remove registration for cars then, it's just a distraction from the real issue which is [blah blah blah]
01:53pm 06/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
635 posts
rego for bikes, what a load of horseshit. Scary how much hate there is for cyclists.
02:04pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3945 posts
I agree - arguing over rego is your standard strawman excuse to distract the real conversation - mutual respect on the road between cyclists and motorists
So true, as soon as a theoretical $100 or whatever rego was introduced it would just turn into "I pay more cyclists needs to get out of my way"

I think I'll apply that with my 4WD to other cars
02:17pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2168 posts
I strongly think that cyclists respect and are more disciplined about road rules, as a general rule, than motorists. Having your ass on the line for a digression, obviously, will hurt more in lycra, and, there's a very real camaraderie out there among bikers about actively obeying and being seen to obey the rules, because there's a very real chance that being a fuckwit today means some poor bastard gets owned tomorrow by a disgruntled motorist -



wat da faq,
on my trip home from work at midday I saw the following,
(MV will be Motor vehicle, and BC will the BiCyclist )

MV, not displaying P plate on rear of car (was displayed on front)
MV, woman littering from car
MV, failure to keep left on multilane road with a posted speed limit above 80kms
MV, smoking with a child in the car

BC, riding on a motorway (he even passed the sign that said "the follow are not permitted on the motorway)
BC, not wearing a helmet
BC, failure to stop at traffic light,
BC failing to give way at a crossing,
BC, littering
BC, riding bike on crossing, not walking it across


Now, there are a shed load more cars on the road in my 30~40min trip than bike, so as a whole there should be more cars breaking the law, and even account for the higher number of offences that you can commit in a car over a bike, my little trip home shows this is not the case,

yes there are some riders that do the right thing, but there are also a metric arse load that think they are doing the right thing, but are in fact breaking the law
02:49pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12455 posts
my little trip home shows this is not the case


to be fair to cyclists, your anecdotal evidence is totally off because you haven't listed every single thing that every single driver did
you caught a few, but certainly not all of their bad behaviors

but yes, bikes certainly do break the law - no one is denying this, but they still think rego plates are unnecessary heh
02:53pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6450 posts
And on a related note, I already pay public liability insurance through having *both* a Cycling Australia and Mountain Bike Australia license.
I'm considering getting a Bicycle Victoria membership as well which would give me some access to legal services should I ever get sideswiped by some fuckwit on High Street who can't change lanes to pass.
02:57pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2169 posts
as for those looking at the cost factor, the cost and work load would be minimal over other rego schemes in this state,

for those who dont know, motorised wheelchairs, or mobility scooters if used on a public road a required/strongly advised, to be rego'd, the cost is a tenner, this covers the cost of the plate, and admin costs,

there was also a movement a few years ago that shopping centers wanted to ban scooters and powerwheelchairs from centers unless they had a rego plate (a lady was knocked down, and the centres camera caught it, but there was no way to find the owner of the scooter, the insurers didn't like the idea of not been able to recoup costs)

there was also a case when a gentleman had a seizure on a train platform and dragged the career (who was trying to hold onto the chair) into the express train......it took police a number of hours to ID the people (they had to find the wallet, which was rather hard) the first thing the police did was look at the footage to see if the had a rego plate ( the only reason i know the background is i was working at morris surgical at the time, and the wheelchair had to be checked for faults etc, the images of the woman trying to hold back the chair are chilling)

also, anyone filled out paperwork at DMR lately, it was quick easy and simple to change my plates over, 5 minute wait and it was busy when i got there (zillmere), but that said, there is nothing stopping bike shops doing the paperwork, and collecting the money on behalf of DMR
03:01pm 06/02/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6668 posts
i really can't see why anyone would want registration for bicycles.
the number one complaint (itt) is that motorists have to slow down for them, registration won't change that at all.
it's more like the complainers itt want the bicycle rider to suffer because of their annoyance... which is incredibly childish.
occasionally i have to slow down in my car to avoid a collision with a much slower cyclist.. it's annoying but really not worth anything more than perhaps a comment on an internet forum. like , ' waaaah! i had to slow down! didn't like it ! '
03:04pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12457 posts
i really can't see why anyone would want registration for bicycles.


accountability
03:23pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2170 posts
motorist would like bike to be accountable because of a number of reason (some real some perceived)
motorist dont like the X% of crap, disrespectful, or ignorant (of road rules, and other road users) bike riders
motorist tar all with the same brush

Cyclists dislike the attitude they get while riding (nearly 100% of riders claim they are doing the right thing however, and other road users fail to respect them)
Cyclists are sick of the lack of room/acknowledgement of space when they ride on the road,
Cyclists hate the idea of registration because it would cost more/degrade their freedom/wouldn't change anything because if they are doing the wrong thing the police would pull them up anyway/ they dont impact on the roads so why pay for them/it would be too much work for others/ etc etc etc

Most cyclist are quite happy to say they are doing the right thing, if they are caught doing the wrong thing it is because other road users have forced them to ride that way, or it is safer to ride in X abreast, or safer to use the road and not the multimillion dollar bike path and so

what it really boils down to, is you (cyclists) dont want to be accountable, if the fee was the same as a powerwheel chair, (a once off fee of $10 fucking dollars!, thats less than the cost of spare sock to stick down your lycra), because suddenly the benefits of a using a bike in city traffic (which is pretty much the time saved due to a total disrespect of the road rules) are offset by the chance a traffic camera will ping you, or a policeman on foot is able to write down your plate number,

If you are indeed doing the right thing as a cyclist on the road, then there should be no issue with rego of bikes,

this will also help identify those bike riders that are given the rest a bad name.
03:28pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Rdizz
Brisbane, Queensland
1839 posts
i agree bikes should pay rego for road use

last edited by Rdizz at 15:52:26 06/Feb/12
03:51pm 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
742 posts
Cyclists hate the idea of registration


Someone hasn't been paying attention.
04:07pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6451 posts
No, what it boils down to is that you're not going to find somewhere to safely put any kind of visibly identifiable registration signage without it impacing the ability to move around and use the bike like I normally would the way it's designed.

I mean seriously, where the hell are you going to put any kind of plate large enough to be visible on say my 4" dually that won't result in it either rubbing against my leg or affecting the way I have to ride to not hit it on everything?
It's an XC bike, and suddenly you want to say it needs a stupid plate on it just so I can get from here to the place it's supposed to be used, 10km away, which I ride to?
04:09pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12531 posts
i agree bikes should pay rego for road use

We already pay to use the road.
04:13pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3106 posts
I agree - arguing over rego is your standard strawman excuse to distract the real conversation - mutual respect on the road between cyclists and motorists


bullshit.

I do give mutual respect on the road. Doesn't mean we can't demand that the vehicle using the road also pays some kind of fee to use it. Just like us. Can you not see that logic? I know this is a bicycle we are talking about so it should be something like 5 % of the cost of a normal car or something.

We already pay to use the road.


Pinky that is not an excuse. You can't go to the department of transport and refuse to pay for your jet ski rego because you already have a boat rego paid for...
04:19pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5453 posts
Raven changing his argument again...
There are a heap of places an identifying plate could be fitted to a bike. Some might increase your drag a little, but a big strong rider like you would hardly notice it anyway. Think of it as an extra training implement.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.


He's just using the same wide brush a lot of people use to think all cyclists are dicks. There are clearly a few in this thread dead set against registration of the vehicle they use for their daily commute.
04:21pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2172 posts
I paid attention, but the truth is you dont want to be accountable for what ever reason

if cost isn't a factor (which at a once of fee of $20 is)

then what do you have against the idea,

also, cutting and pasting half the line is a pretty weak way to argue,

"Cyclists hate the idea of registration because it would cost more/degrade their freedom/wouldn't change anything because if they are doing the wrong thing the police would pull them up anyway/ they dont impact on the roads so why pay for them/it would be too much work for others/ etc etc etc "

did i miss any reasons there?

I not using the same brush to label all cyclist, I in fact ride, (not as often as i should, but I do ride on the road and everything, and I've never had abuse hurled at me,)

however there are alot of riders that do cop agro, and they all claim to be doing the right thing, yet motorist keep seeing all these riders doing the wrong thing, so where are all these good cyclists?, and wouldn't the "good" cyclist want the bad cyclists named and shame, or at least have them change their riding style as to not reflect poorly on you guys?, because rego would do that
04:33pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6452 posts
There are a heap of places an identifying plate could be fitted to a bike. Some might increase your drag a little, but a big strong rider like you would hardly notice it anyway. Think of it as an extra training implement.


And where might they be?
They can't go below the saddle, because you have to get behind there;
The stays are generally too shallow for anything to be attached to, plus, they'd stick out at least 20cm from the right or left side, which is too far to be safe.

Edit: I'd like to point out that you would need *at least* 5 alphabetic characters just to cover the number of bikes sold *per year*.

So tell me, genius, where will they be placed?

Once again, an idea born out of hatred but poorly thought out.

last edited by Raven at 16:39:33 06/Feb/12
04:37pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11822 posts
Oh I'm 100% certain the engineering exists to overcome that problem Raven; its a fucking label on a wire on a bike, not a manned mission to Mars.
04:38pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Chester
Queensland
26 posts
should I ever get sideswiped by some fuckwit on High Street who can't change lanes to pass.


This is the only reason I have an issue with Cyclists... I shouldn't have to change lanes. In a car you can be booked for going too far under the speed limited because it can become a danger. Why is it then we let cyclists do it and just have to accept it because they can't possibly do the speed limit?

I can run pretty fast, does this mean i have the right to run down a main rd and slow taffic to a point where they need to change lanes to get around me?

last edited by Chester at 16:43:52 06/Feb/12
04:42pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5454 posts
Get me a picture of your Bike, dimensions, and I'll CAD (Actually, probably just MS Paint because I'm lazy) something up for you Raven.

Edit for above: If the Cyclist is in the right spot (far to the left) you should be able to slow down and safely go past him, moving slightly into the right lane if required. 2 Abrest you would have to change lanes.

Bikes don't take anywhere near as much to get past as a slow car would. You're comparing apples to Oranges.
04:43pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2173 posts
And where might they be?
They can't go below the saddle, because you have to get behind there;
The stays are generally too shallow for anything to be attached to, plus, they'd stick out at least 20cm from the right or left side, which is too far to be safe.

So tell me, genius, where will they be placed?

Once again, an idea born out of hatred but poorly thought out.



oh fuck me, if you cant think of a place to put a small metal plate on your pushy you need to go back to school,

have you seen the size of a number plate, they are not that fucking big (you wouldn't have the same as a car, it would be the same as a motorcycle or wheelchair, the whole plate is about 20cm long at best for a motorbike, and smaller for a wheelchair,

if you can fit lights under your saddle there is a pretty high chance the plate would fit, if not there, then on the rear left (non chain side) of the bike, and only if you couldn't fit it to the rear for some reason (unlikely)

also, your arse and legs would stick out more than a standard car number plate, so is your bum unsafe?

EDIT>> also 5x alphabet combo 11 881 376 different combos, I highly doubt there are that many sold in a year, let alone each state! (aren't we currently abount 22mil total population?)

also to paraphrase raven
Once again, an argument born out of ignorance but poorly thought out.
04:43pm 06/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2307 posts
"stop that bike rider he ripped the mirror from my car"
"which one?"
"the one in pink lycra"
"fuck"
04:44pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12459 posts
there is nothing to say the rego plate couldn't be made out of plastic for a pushie either, it doesn't *have* to be metal
04:44pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6453 posts
I can run pretty fast does this mean i have the right to run down a main rd and slow taffic to a point where they need to change lanes to get around me?

Yet you'll say nothing when there's a parked car in that lane.

oh fuck me, if you cant think of a place to put a small metal plate on your pushy you need to go back to school,

have you seen the size of a number plate, they are not that fucking big (you wouldn't have the same as a car, it would be the same as a motorcycle or wheelchair, the whole plate is about 20cm long at best for a motorbike, and smaller for a wheelchair,

if you can fit lights under your saddle there is a pretty high chance the plate would fit, if not there, then on the rear left (non chain side) of the bike, and only if you couldn't fit it to the rear for some reason (unlikely)

also, your arse and legs would stick out more than a standard car number plate, so is your bum unsafe?

Think about it, where are your legs moving?
They're moving up and down throughout that area. A light is only at most 7cm wide. Any wider, and your legs start to clip against them - yes, even when behind the seatpost.
There's a minimum (Australian Standard) size for the letters on number plates - you're going to be looking at at least 15cm high.
On an XC bike, you essentially require there be 0cm clearance to the stays on the side due to rocks, tree roots, stumps etc.

Having it only visible from side on defeats the purpose of why whingers want this in the first place.

I re-iterate: It's a stupid argument.

last edited by Raven at 16:49:43 06/Feb/12
04:46pm 06/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16236 posts
there is nothing to say the rego plate couldn't be made out of plastic for a pushie either, it doesn't *have* to be metal


fuck that

wind resistance bro
04:47pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5455 posts
I can run pretty fast, does this mean i have the right to run down a main rd and slow taffic to a point where they need to change lanes to get around me?


As I said above. If you have to change lanes to get around a cyclist you, or they, are doing it wrong.
04:48pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3946 posts
This is the only reason I have an issue with Cyclists... I shouldn't have to change lanes.
This is just saying the same thing as cyclists should not be allowed on the road at all.

I overtake slow vehicles all the time, its a basic part of driving, why would you care whether that vehicle is a bicycle?

Do you have an issue with buses and trucks too? IMO they are far more annoying since they're harder to overtake.
04:49pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Chester
Queensland
27 posts
Yet you'll say nothing when there's a parked car in that lane.


If it is parked illegal or on one of those stupid streets where people shouldn't be allowed to park but for some ridiculous reason they can, there is nothing I hate more... If I see the person at their parked car they definately cop an earful from me about it.

Actually on this topic my most hated form of parking is when someone parks too close to a corner illegally, makes me wish I still has my 4x4 with a bullbar.
04:49pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5456 posts
rocks, tree roots, stumps etc.


Yep. Lots of them on Major Roads....
04:51pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6454 posts
As I said above. If you have to change lanes to get around a cyclist you, or they, are doing it wrong.

In Victoria, it's illegal to pass a cyclist, parked car, or any other obstruction while partially in the same lane on a multi-lane road.
04:51pm 06/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
636 posts
ITT a bunch of self entitled motorists have a whinge.
04:51pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6455 posts
Yep. Lots of them on Major Roads....

GG on the selective reading, go back and do so.
04:52pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Chester
Queensland
28 posts
I overtake slow vehicles all the time, its a basic part of driving, why would you care whether that vehicle happens to be a cyclist?


Because a cyclist will almost bring me to a stop, a slower vehicle not so much. As was mentioned before I shouldn't have to change lanes, the cyclist should be far enough over and if there isn't enough room i don't beleive you should be on that stretch of road. It is just too dangerous
04:52pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2174 posts
This is just saying the same thing as cyclists should not be allowed on the road at all.

I overtake slow vehicles all the time, its a basic part of driving, why would you care whether that vehicle is a bicycle? Do you think buses and trucks should be off the road too?

IMO they are far more annoying since they're harder to overtake.


the big difference here tho is while you might take some time to overtake a bus, it doesn't get in front of everyone at the next red light, meaning you have to go through all that fun again!, and again and again,

if a bus or truck did that on a daily bases they would have been banned from the city by now
04:53pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12460 posts
There's a minimum (Australian Standard) size for the letters on number plates - you're going to be looking at at least 15cm high.

right..



from ppq.com.au
04:53pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2175 posts
In Victoria, it's illegal to pass a cyclist, parked car, or any other obstruction while partially in the same lane on a multi-lane road.


do the bike follow this rule too?
04:54pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6456 posts
the big difference here tho is while you might take some time to overtake a bus, it doesn't get in front of everyone at the next red light, meaning you have to go through all that fun again!, and again and again,

if a bus or truck did that on a daily bases they would have been banned from the city by now

Err, they do down here.

Busses have dedicated lanes along a lot of routes designed to allow them to bypass traffic stopped at lights etc and stop them getting caught up in traffic.
A lot of the time these lanes are only for the 50m or so before lights, so they come to the queued traffic, go to the front, get their own green light to go before everyone else gets on, then they stop at the next bus stop.

Both Ferntree Gully Road and Stud Road are a pretty good example of this.
04:55pm 06/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
637 posts
Actually I've changed my mind. I will pay rego if you guys will just shut the fuck up. But we know you wont. Rego will come in and then next week you'll be back here BOO HOO I HAD TO SLOW DOWN FOR A CYCLIST. You're just trying to rationalise your hate.
04:56pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6457 posts
do the bike follow this rule too?

Cyclists are exempt from this. They're also required to use the leftmost lane unless it's completely blocked.

And before you whinge that we're allowed a special privilege other motorists aren't, if you want it both ways, then we'll take our entitlement to use the second and even third lane.
Or, stop your whinging.
04:57pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5457 posts
Huh, That's kind of gay.
How do you get around a Cyclist on a Single Lane Road? Wait until there is an overtaking Lane / Dashed Lines?

You are allowed to pass them in QLD.
04:57pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12461 posts
You're just trying to rationalise your hate.


At least if cyclists paid rego, they'd remove the argument from motorists and whilst the riders would still be hated on, they'd have the moral high ground.
well right now motorists have the best case, they actually pay to use the road network
05:00pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11823 posts
I'm fine with hating cyclists being on the same road as motorised vehicles. Its fundamentally unsafe.

In planning terms, its my understanding that a 'road' is a specially designated high-volume traffic thoroughfare. For example, you are not permitted to build traffic calming shit like speed bumps on roads.

In this context cyclists should wherever possible be separated from cars on roads. Given how stupidly high most of our rates are I think we have a right to expect more cycleways.
05:02pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6458 posts
That applies to multi-lane roads only.
On a single lane road, there's no problems.

Personally, I'd like to see every second road in Melbourne turned in to something a bit like a clearway during peak hours, whereby the leftmost lanes become dedicated bike lanes. This would massively encourage cycling for long commutes, and clearly define and separate bikes from cars.
05:02pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6459 posts
I'm fine with hating cyclists being on the same road as motorised vehicles. Its fundamentally unsafe.

It's only fundamentally unsafe because you can't drive.

Learn to drive safely, and it won't be unsafe.
05:03pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11824 posts
Personally, I'd like to see every second road in Melbourne turned in to something a bit like a clearway during peak hours, whereby the leftmost lanes become dedicated bike lanes. This would massively encourage cycling for long commutes, and clearly define and separate bikes from cars.

Why the obsession with driving on 'car roads'? I would have thought that cyclists would be clamouring to get the fuck off busy roads and onto dedicated cycling verges etc.
05:04pm 06/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
638 posts
At least if cyclists paid rego, they'd remove the argument from motorists and whilst the riders would still be hated on, they'd have the moral high ground.
well right now motorists have the best case, they actually pay to use the road network


au contraire mon frere, as was pointed out about a billion times in this thread, your taxes pay for the roads, your rego does not.
05:04pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12533 posts
Why the obsession with driving on car roads? I would have thought that cyclists would be clamouring to get the fuck off busy roads.

Yeah, and anyone who's been in Europe knows that has to be the goal. Go to the Netherlands to see correctly planned and practical bike paths where cycling is actually a legitimate alternative mode of transport.
05:05pm 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
743 posts
He's just using the same wide brush a lot of people use to think all cyclists are dicks. There are clearly a few in this thread dead set against registration of the vehicle they use for their daily commute.


I object to bigots doing exactly that (using a wide brush), but that's not really what my comment was targeted at.

In this thread there's trolls and morons on both sides. It's still valid to point out he hasn't been paying attention, because the outcome is the same regardless.

There isn't rego for cyclists, and it's not even on the cards. I doubt even one person in this thread who feels there should be bicycle registration will do ANYTHING off their own back to make it happen. So it's all a waste of hot air arguing a topic that has clearly already been decided by the social and financial market (there is no bike rego, nor are there any plans for it), taking the focus off "should bikes be on the road" which leads to the broader problem of "how do these different modes of transport co-exist with mutual respect".

05:10pm 06/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1962 posts
In a car you can be booked for going too far under the speed limited because it can become a danger

Haha, when was the last time you got booked for that?
05:13pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2176 posts
Cyclists are exempt from this. They're also required to use the leftmost lane unless it's completely blocked.

And before you whinge that we're allowed a special privilege other motorists aren't, if you want it both ways, then we'll take our entitlement to use the second and even third lane.
Or, stop your whinging.


i'd be happy if they got off the road and used the damn bike path no more than 30 meter to the left of them (linkfield road) 80km speed limit, corner, and always enough debris that they ride in the middle of the lane (and because it is a slight up hill section they are often at best half the posted speed limit)

it is, (pardon the half pun) a two way street, there are many riders that disregard the rules, and do what is easier for them (the rider) if a car tried doing the same shit, there is a higher likely hood that the police would come and knock on the owners door,

I dont rage against bike riders because i hate them, I rage against those not doing the right thing, I see it has a way to make those people more accountable,

it is the same as a trailer, it has rego as a mean to identify those not following the rules,
the same as a bull dozer, bobcat, or forklift, all unlikely to speed, or cause issues, but if they use the road, they get a plate
05:14pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6460 posts
Why the obsession with driving on 'car roads'? I would have thought that cyclists would be clamouring to get the fuck off busy roads and onto dedicated cycling verges etc.

By specifically marking a lane that basically says 'bikes are permitted to be here, cars are not', we would have that infrastructure the way we want it designed.
None of this bullshit 1m wide lanes that curves around every tree they can find that means riders cut across on to oncoming traffic and has tree roots that push up the surface such that would make it the equivalent of the M1 being a gravel road filled with potholes.

These things are designed such that it would be the equivalent of the Monash Freeway being a single lane and weaving left to right the whole way down it the current width of the whole 8 lanes, with oncoming drivers frequently crossing in to the path of oncoming traffic.
05:16pm 06/02/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6669 posts
05:17pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2177 posts
Think about it, where are your legs moving?
They're moving up and down throughout that area. A light is only at most 7cm wide. Any wider, and your legs start to clip against them - yes, even when behind the seatpost.
There's a minimum (Australian Standard) size for the letters on number plates - you're going to be looking at at least 15cm high.
>


first off, you might want to tell PPQ that their slimline plates dont meet the standard (being that they are 10cm high!)
also, all bike plates must be illegal too

http://www.ppq.com.au/InfoHub/PlateInformation.aspx

also, if you legs are clipping the light behind there are two things, your bike is too small, or you need to get of the BMX you stole
05:20pm 06/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1963 posts
^^ right on dem0n
05:21pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2178 posts
In a car you can be booked for going too far under the speed limited because it can become a danger

Haha, when was the last time you got booked for that?



i got pulled over for doing just that, and if you dont have a valid reason they will book you (PS driving a fully loaded car that has 600cc, and 2 cylinders doing 80 in a 110 zone is a valid reason!)
05:23pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2179 posts
By specifically marking a lane that basically says 'bikes are permitted to be here, cars are not', we would have that infrastructure the way we want it designed.
None of this bullshit 1m wide lanes that curves around every tree they can find that means riders cut across on to oncoming traffic and has tree roots that push up the surface such that would make it the equivalent of the M1 being a gravel road filled with potholes.

These things are designed such that it would be the equivalent of the Monash Freeway being a single lane and weaving left to right the whole way down it the current width of the whole 8 lanes, with oncoming drivers frequently crossing in to the path of oncoming traffic.



er, they have done that in parts (ie linkfield road in brendale) the bikes still use the road where the cars are, this is not a solution, in fact at times (when the line markings are the same bit of tarmac as the car road) it seems to invite cyclist to ride multiple abreast because they have the room, and then the encroach back in to the traffic flow,
05:26pm 06/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
744 posts
froth froth froth
05:29pm 06/02/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6670 posts
er, they have done that in parts (ie linkfield road in brendale) the bikes still use the road where the cars are

i used to wonder why the cyclists did this & asked about it on this forum & got some odd answers. a few weeks back i walked along the protected bikeway that runs parallel with linkfield road & it is a cement corridor filled with broken beer bottles. i think that might be why cyclists don't use it. strathpine eh!
05:30pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Aaron
Wollongong, New South Wales
1 posts
Personally I wouldnt ride my bike on the road, its just way to dangerous, there are so many bad drivers around.

Luckily down here in Wollongong we have a bike track that goes past all the beaches which is nice to ride your bike on.
05:33pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2180 posts
i used to wonder why the cyclists did this & asked about it on this forum & got some odd answers. a few weeks back i walked along the protected bikeway that runs parallel with linkfield road & it is a cement corridor filled with broken beer bottles. i think that might be why cyclists don't use it. strathpine eh!



odd, I know that it is wide enough to put the street sweeper down (as I've seen it early some mornings) and I wondered why they didn't sweep the road (as there is a fair bit of debris.......always)
05:37pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3947 posts
Yeah, debris is certainly a big concern and very dangerous if its on a road, since it will cause cyclists to swerve for (from a driver's perspective) no reason. If its on a dedicated bike lane, people avoid the bike lane.

Because a cyclist will almost bring me to a stop, a slower vehicle not so much.
I think you're a very strange driver if you dont start changing lanes way before you get to any slower vehicle, be it cyclist or a truck struggling up a hill.

As was mentioned before I shouldn't have to change lanes
Not wanting to is not the same thing as should not have to. On multi-lane Queensland roads cyclists are entitled to occupy the entire left-hand lane, although from my POV its poor road etiquette to do so. I also think its good etiquette for cyclists to avoid narrow single-lane streets entirely, but its not always possible.

if there isn't enough room i don't beleive you should be on that stretch of road. It is just too dangerous
I agree and I absolutely avoid riding on narrow streets for this reason, but its a circular explanation. The reason its too dangerous is because some drivers are fuckheads who prefer to risk killing another human being than delay their commute by a few seconds.
05:53pm 06/02/12 Permalink
jmr
Brisbane, Queensland
7570 posts
I'm going to reiterate my earlier point - if you can't overtake a cyclist in your car you're fucking retarded.

Lanes are massive in AU, go to China and whinge about cyclists then
05:54pm 06/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2182 posts
Yeah, debris is certainly a big concern and very dangerous if its on a road, since it will cause cyclists to swerve for (from a driver's perspective) no reason. If its on a dedicated bike lane, people avoid the bike lane.


yeah, and a large number (not all) dont shoulder check first (very dangerous on a bend)

I think you're a very strange driver if you dont start changing lanes way before you get to any slower vehicle, be it cyclist or a truck struggling up a hill.


TBH this is something I notice alot of brisse drivers do (no changing lanes until the last possible moment) not sure of the mind set, I think it has to do with many drives not likely/not able to change lanes, (unless they have to)

I guess that is way so many drivers stick to the right hand lane when there is no one else on the road, (an utter dislike of changing lane)
06:12pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3948 posts
not sure of the mind set, I think it has to do with many drives not likely/not able to change lanes, (unless they have to)
Yeah that could be it. When I'm driving I'm usually watching up ahead as I hate getting stuck behind someone wanting to turn right or a bus that's pulled over to let people on/off. I guess it also depends on where your daily commute goes but cyclists are a blip compared to those kind of slowdowns.
06:23pm 06/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
640 posts
haha karma

Was just riding home from work and came to a roundabout with cars waiting for me. I tried to go through quick to get out of the way, but I lent too hard into the corner, clipped a pedal on the ground and the bike went flying. I luckily landed on my feet and gave a meek grin to the cars then rode round the corner to check my bike. One of the cars watching drove over and the driver complimented me on my awesome save. We exchanged pleasantries then went on our way. Couldve been a different story if the motorists had been impatient and tried to come through the roundabout while I was busy stacking.

<3 nice motorists :)
09:26pm 06/02/12 Permalink
Agamemnon
Brisbane, Queensland
983 posts
holy shit, 10 pages on this!

and for the record i think ID / rego for bicycles is a good idea -

Road use means obeying the road rules and we need to be able to identify all those pink shrinkwrap wearing lefties when they do shit wrong :P

I have less interest in "rego" for bikes but i think it would be a good way for labor to suddenly create more jobs and more beauracracy if we made that mandatory also ^.^
10:30pm 06/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12466 posts
holy shit, 10 pages on this!


20 results per page? that is the worst way to read the hilarity that is qgl
10:25am 07/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2311 posts
Anymore than twenty becomes a pain on a phone when there are a heap of pics of gifs or videos though.
10:30am 07/02/12 Permalink
deeper
Brisbane, Queensland
4017 posts
Dude in the OP video is a fucking twat. It's almost like he's intentionally looking for trouble with the making of his video.
10:31am 07/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
745 posts
The thing that always gets me is the last minute usage of the indicator when trying to change lanes. So many people start looking around trying to work out where their car is going to go first, and become impatient and speed up and slow down and drift left and right in their lane trying to find a gap all without even putting on their indicator! I've seen it as a passenger as well as another driver.

The first thing you do should be to put on your indicator. You do that, and most of the time someone will let you in. If no one knows what you're doing, no one will let you in.

Some people are just unobservant, but they're mostly rare and if the guy one back doesn't let you in there's always more.
01:05pm 07/02/12 Permalink
jmr
Brisbane, Queensland
7574 posts
I don't really think the OP is that crazy at all?
01:07pm 07/02/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
5155 posts
I have had a technique drilled into me from my driving instructor when I was on my L's, which is M.I.M.S. - Mirror (side mirrors), Indicator, Mirror (rear mirror), Shoulder. Helps me be observant of when I'm overtaking or changing lanes, and everyone around me knows what I am doing.
01:10pm 07/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12467 posts
So many people start looking around trying to work out where their car is going to go first, and become impatient and speed up and slow down and drift left and right in their lane trying to find a gap all without even putting on their indicator!


the only problem with your logic here is that sometimes when you indicate, people speed up to block you out


Dude in the OP video is a fucking twat. It's almost like he's intentionally looking for trouble with the making of his video.


are you serial? he was keeping to the side of the road, doing what a good cyclist should be doing
making it public doesn't make him a twat
01:15pm 07/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
746 posts
the only problem with your logic here is that sometimes when you indicate, people speed up to block you out


That's just karma catching up with you.
03:55pm 07/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12469 posts
I'm ridiculing you in my mind for believing in karma
03:57pm 07/02/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
747 posts
Is it working?
04:20pm 07/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12470 posts
04:21pm 07/02/12 Permalink
Kershner
Brisbane, Queensland
11 posts
I ride a bicycle as my primary form of transport, and mainly ride it on the road. I try to stick to the far left of the road, but sometimes in this area it is rough and/or covered in broken glass, and in such situations will move out into the middle of the road, sometimes holding up motorised traffic.

Is this a problem for you?
11:50pm 07/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5459 posts
Not a problem for me as long as you move back over to the left as soon as possible.

If the bike lane is clean, ye you still ride on the white line on the far right of it/on the road. THEN it's a problem for me.
08:33am 08/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6466 posts
If the bike lane is clean, ye you still ride on the white line on the far right of it/on the road. THEN it's a problem for me.

The problem is that cars spread debris to where they're not driving. ie, if bits of rubber or glass are deposited on the middle of a road, car tyres will keep knocking them about until they're no longer knocked about. The place that occurs is in the bike lane.

Notice how bike paths don't generally have the same problem or volume of crap across them?

The result is we get two feet wide worth of debris off on the bike lanes, which we're expected to ride in.

The person who invents a passive way to keep bike lanes clear will be heralded as a genius.
11:58am 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5464 posts
Which I why I am an advocate for seperated Bike lanes, either by a kerb strip or completly off the road.
I also said IF the bike lane is clean I know shit gets pushed there, but it's not always there.

I know you're all about aero dynamics and that as well... but if you cant ride your bike because of a little bit of Bitumen gravel (glass is another story...) maybe you need to get some tyres more suited to the conditions of which you are required to travel.

If I lived out bush and only had dirt roads to drive on, I wouldn't buy a lowered WRX with stiff as shit suspension. I would get something more suitable to suit road conditions.
12:55pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6467 posts
So what you're saying is Victorian/Qld roads are to be considered fire trail at best, and as such we should at a bare minimum use cyclocross tyres on road bikes, even when riding on Beach Road?

You don't seem to understand what a 1cm stone does to a tyre with a 23mm profile.
That would be the equivalent of putting a 10cm rock in front of a car. Or having the entire road be made out of 100mm scoria.
01:08pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5466 posts
No, what I'm saying is that while we should persue better conditions for our Bike lanes, you should stop being such a whiney little bitch.
01:17pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6468 posts
But you're the one whining, we're just doing what's within our rights.
01:18pm 08/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12473 posts
cry me a fucking river, its debris

you might be doing what is within your rights but don't bitch and moan when cars nearly kill you for riding like douchbags
at the end of the day, you're not going to win this argument
01:22pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5467 posts
Actually, if you have a lane you have to keep within it (Handle Bars and all, which aren't if you're on the line) unless it's impractical to do so (in QLD).

We just have a dissagreement on practical.
01:25pm 08/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
642 posts
You don't seem to understand what a 1cm stone does to a tyre with a 23mm profile.


It's pretty easy to pick out the people who have cycling experience in this thread. A 1 cm stone can completely fuck you up, especially going round a corner. I've got a friend with permanent neck injuries due to a falling off their bike after hitting a tiny rock.
01:56pm 08/02/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7333 posts

you're not going to win this argument

Even if he wins, he's still potential road-kill.
02:02pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11836 posts
Which is why dedicated bike lanes away from road debris are the best idea, and I don't understand in this climate of climate mania why they are not better provisioned.
Even if he wins, he's still potential road-kill.

Yeh that's the thing, it just astonishes me that so many cyclists seem to lust after riding on roads. If they're on a motorbike then they are stupid potential donors, but take away the full face helmet, leathers and engine and then its perfectly fine to share the road with the iron giants.

Getting along and playing happy families with car users is a distraction from the fact that its stupidly unsafe.
02:02pm 08/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16254 posts
there are shit loads of them in brisbane hoggy

the lance armstrong wannabe's in their lyrca have to ride on the road though
02:13pm 08/02/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6673 posts
surely there will be no consequences from killing a cyclist with a car. i'm sure the courts will be all like "YEH! TAKE THAT CYCLIST! BEWM!" :D
02:16pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5468 posts
Wiow, that is serious eski. I would really seriously concider using better and safer tyres if I was to ever ride on the road then!
02:16pm 08/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
643 posts
This happened on a bike path :P

One minute we were riding along, next minute I look back and old mate is lying in a crumpled heap. Nasty stuff!
02:28pm 08/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16256 posts
02:41pm 08/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12475 posts
ban all bikes, they're unsafe!
everyone, grab an automobile!
02:41pm 08/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2196 posts
all debris aside, there seems to be a mindset among some riders that they HAVE a right to the roads that cars use (so much use those roads at all costs!), despite the fact there are other safer route available (take the A J Wylie atm the high bridge is open to cars, it is narrow, tight, and there is a odd dog leg traveling into petrie before the lights

the lower bridge is open to foot traffic and BIKES, now there is a two lane road plus a bikepath/foot path and where do the lycra hard core ride?

surely this would fall under the same rules as dangerous driving/riding?
02:53pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11837 posts
surely there will be no consequences from killing a cyclist with a car. i'm sure the courts will be all like "YEH! TAKE THAT CYCLIST! BEWM!" :D

What if the bike rider is at fault? A simple bingle between two cars is a bone cruncher for a cyclist. Also I'm pretty sure I would feel bad about having brain in my grill even if it wasn't my fault.
ban all bikes, they're unsafe!
everyone, grab an automobile!

No, separate them.
02:58pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5469 posts
They do have the right, just that some lack the common sense to chose the safer (and sometimes quicker) option.
02:59pm 08/02/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
644 posts
lol pave
03:23pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6470 posts
Which is why dedicated bike lanes away from road debris are the best idea, and I don't understand in this climate of climate mania why they are not better provisioned.

I'd argee, IF they were designed propertly.

The problem is the idiots designing them, who have never ridden a bike at speed in their life, don't have a clue what works and what doesn't.

In reality, what we actually want are lanes almost the size of normal road lanes! These 1200mm wide bike paths that weave around every tree and mound are simply not useful.

I only need to point to the example that it takes me 10-15 minutes *less* to road my XC bike to work than my road bike using the commuter paths as to how poorly designed they are - ie, a bike that has *more* tyre resistance and has to be designed for twitchy/precision handling is quicker than one designed to cruise at 10-15km/h faster.
03:27pm 08/02/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
2201 posts
I'd argee, IF they were designed propertly.

The problem is the idiots designing them, who have never ridden a bike at speed in their life, don't have a clue what works and what doesn't.

In reality, what we actually want are lanes almost the size of normal road lanes! These 1200mm wide bike paths that weave around every tree and mound are simply not useful.

I only need to point to the example that it takes me 10-15 minutes *less* to road my XC bike to work than my road bike using the commuter paths as to how poorly designed they are - ie, a bike that has *more* tyre resistance and has to be designed for twitchy/precision handling is quicker than one designed to cruise at 10-15km/h faster.



you need a "path" as wide as a road to ride at speed, pardon me here while I go WTF!!!!!!!, while some what illegal, most motorbikes (cruisers I'm talking about) are not only wider, but travel at much higher speeds can ride two abreast with little to no hassle or need for a road way any wider than half a standard lane,

I have seen packs of cyclists riding upto four abreast at speed on a standard road

I would think that a 1 meter wide path, clear of debris is more than enough for a bike (there is a cost factor, while bikes might not wear the road out, mother nature still does, and that is alot of road way to be under used, and replaced with little income streams from the users,
03:40pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Scooter
Brisbane, Queensland
5470 posts
These 1200mm wide bike paths that weave around every tree and mound are simply not useful.


In Logan it's a MIN of 1.5m for it to be even put to concideration to be a Bike lane. Most are 2m min spec.
And the guy in charge of cycle ways rides (about 25km, not sure if thats far or not) to and from work each day.
05:52pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Kershner
Brisbane, Queensland
12 posts
Not a problem for me as long as you move back over to the left as soon as possible. If the bike lane is clean, ye you still ride on the white line on the far right of it/on the road. THEN it's a problem for me.


Which is the attitude I get from most drivers, actually haven't had many problems lately riding this way. And from what I see on my commute, most riders obey the road rules and are considerate to other road users.
08:18pm 08/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6474 posts
you need a "path" as wide as a road to ride at speed, pardon me here while I go WTF!!!!!!!, while some what illegal, most motorbikes (cruisers I'm talking about) are not only wider, but travel at much higher speeds can ride two abreast with little to no hassle or need for a road way any wider than half a standard lane,


What's the width of a motorbike when he's leaning at full extent through a corner?

That, then 50cm on either side, is the absolute minimum you need to provide - not the upright width.

The same applies to cyclists. 66cm upright becomes about 1.5m when taking a corner. Add a margin on either side, and oh look!
09:47am 09/02/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
16257 posts
These 1200mm wide bike paths that weave around every tree and mound are simply not useful


in Brisbane a bike path is 1.8m wide, only standard footpaths are 1.2m

a lot of the bigger ones are 2.5m up here as well
09:50am 09/02/12 Permalink
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