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Red Light Camera Question
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2778 posts
Internet, I need your help!

I was stopping at an intersection at a red arrow to turn right, and just got flashed by the red light camera. It was a green light to go straight, but red for the arrow. I rolled over the first line, but stopped before the last dotted line. I am pretty sure the flash was for me, as there was only one other car on my side of the street and it was going straight through the green light. I am confident the photo would show my brake lights on, and possibly even my indicator light, but I definitely stopped and did not go through against the red light. Do you think I will be able to challenge this one if I get pinged for it? I've only ever had one ticket for speeding in more than ten years of driving, and I don't really know anyone off the top of my head who has been hit with a red light offence before. Looking for informed answers, no trolling/no homo.

TL;DR I stopped at a red light but got flashed by the camera as I rolled over the first line but not over the last line, can I challenge?
11:15pm 04/01/12 Permalink
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Internet
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11:15pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Crakaveli
USA
5974 posts
sweet as bro
11:17pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Stevo
Rockhampton, Queensland
12 posts
There's a definition for the line you have to cross to constitute an offence. If you cross that line you've 'ran a red light.' you don't have to have gone thru the whole intersection.
11:32pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
4758 posts
I thought those red light cameras only snap your license plate?
11:33pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2779 posts
I would think they take a photo of the whole intersection and then zoom in on the offending vehicle? If someone is motoring through at 100kph+ I don't think the camera would be precise enough to quickly hit just that license plate. They would zoom in post printing?
11:39pm 04/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3479 posts
They take 2 photo's to confirm if you have stopped or gone through. If you stopped then the second photo will show that and you should be fine. That's how I think it works anyway.
11:42pm 04/01/12 Permalink
exo
Melbourne, Victoria
8997 posts
If you crossed the line you broke the law.

Soz, bro.
11:47pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2780 posts
ITT - mixed messages.

I'm having a bit of a read up on the QLD road rules & demerit points - I have a feeling I am going to get stuck with it unfortunately. Will still give it a crack, but will see what happens I guess. Will just keep an eye on the mail - how long does it usually take to arrive?
11:50pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7177 posts
not true

not stopping at the line is a different offense - i remember when red light cameras came out they specifically said they need 2 photos of you.. one before the red and one as you pass through the intersection - if you activate the camera but dont cross the intersection they dont send you anything

they even said.. that even though they caught you committing an offense (stopping over the line) they would not book you for it
11:53pm 04/01/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14266 posts
I would think they take a photo of the whole intersection and then zoom in on the offending vehicle? If someone is motoring through at 100kph+ I don't think the camera would be precise enough to quickly hit just that license plate. They would zoom in post printing?


11:55pm 04/01/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1328 posts
They take 2 photo's to confirm if you have stopped or gone through. If you stopped then the second photo will show that and you should be fine. That's how I think it works anyway.

I think this is true. You can get done for not stopping before the white line (where you shoulda stopped) but they shouldnt bust you for going through the intersection with a red arrow cause you didnt go through it.

IMO its better you stopped late than never and i hope the law would see it like that too. F***loads of people go past the white line all the time @ the red light camera just south of chermside shopping centre and i dont recall them getting a picture taken.
12:03am 05/01/12 Permalink
Fade2Black
Brisbane, Queensland
4832 posts
Time a friend got done the letter included photos showing the red light, her approaching the intersection AND her in the middle of it. All clearly showing the red light.

I wonder if because there is no photo of you in the middle of the intersection you will be fine.
12:06am 05/01/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
1941 posts
Don't forget they are changing the red lights to be speed camera's as well (not just when it's a red light either).
Don't stress about it unless you get a letter in the mail, they also do test shots, malfunction and all the usual jazz.
12:34am 05/01/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12022 posts
Yep, would not worry about this for a second.
12:38am 05/01/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5025 posts
If it's during the day, i'm sure the camera will be plenty fast enough to get you. If it's during the night, probably not.
12:56am 05/01/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
19158 posts


TL;DR I stopped at a red light but got flashed by the camera as I rolled over the first line but not over the last line, can I challenge?


FYI that first line is where you're meant to stop, that 2nd line is for pedestrians. I LOL @ people who don't know this and get flashed.

LOL @ U

Nothing to add other than l2drive.
01:22am 05/01/12 Permalink
The GuVna
Brisbane, Queensland
1752 posts
06:50am 05/01/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2781 posts
Alright, thanks guys - will sit tight and see what happens. I'm sure there will be a thread on whirlpool about it, will use some of my google credits later on.
08:17am 05/01/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6344 posts
What do you think the lines are there for? Playing hopscotch?
08:22am 05/01/12 Permalink
Mosfx
Gold Coast, Queensland
862 posts
Sometimes the cameras are active, but don't have film in them.
08:35am 05/01/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
15988 posts
They take 2 photo's to confirm if you have stopped or gone through. If you stopped then the second photo will show that and you should be fine.


100% this^

if you didn't go right through you will be fine.
08:40am 05/01/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
9903 posts
haha guv
09:02am 05/01/12 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
115 posts
The first photo is just the trigger shot. The second which is exactly one second apart is the decider. If you have stopped then you are all good. If you are half way through an intersection and the second photo snaps you already through the intersection you are ok.

The photo is always of the entire intersection and includes the traffic light itself for really obvious cases where people are just running a straight up red and not an amber.

Photos I've seen where people have been charged are for situations described above or more along the lines of 'ran red, cleaned up or got cleaned up by (insert pedestrian, car, truck etc).'

TL;DR - you're in the clear.
09:08am 05/01/12 Permalink
Zak
Brisbane, Queensland
2782 posts
What do you think the lines are there for? Playing hopscotch?


I know i shouldn't feed trolls, but I would think the part where I mentioned I stopped indicated I am aware. Just never been in this situation before. Either way I will be super conscious to stop before the solid line all the time. I have better things to spend my money on than this s***.!

Thanks again everyone. How long does it typically take to arrive in the mail?
11:48am 05/01/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
270 posts
There's a definition for the line you have to cross to constitute an offence. If you cross that line you've 'ran a red light.' you don't have to have gone thru the whole intersection.


This - as far as I can remember (learning, books, test, instructors etc) going over the line constitutes running the red no matter how much you actually overstep the mark. The amount over the line isn't really arbitrary, if it was you could go out 3 car lengths into the intersection and say 'she'll be right I'm just over the line a smidge!'. I'm pretty sure those cameras are calibrated accurately and I also recall watching a show at some point where a guy got done when he was forced to ever so slightly move forward over the line and right to make way for an emergency vehicle.*

*Hearsay

Police Information

A Red Light Camera is connected to traffic lights and is activated when a vehicle crosses the white stop line. The camera is programmed to take photographs of the rear of any vehicle travelling over the stop line or entering the intersection after the lights have turned red


They review the above then apply it to below. It's possible they would see the second picture and let you off, but who are we talking about here! Touch and go I guess.

Legislation
12:16pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3047 posts
This should be a lesson to you to stop where you are supposed to. Always found it irritating when drivers blocked the pedestrian walking area .
12:25pm 05/01/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8177 posts
I think a public stoning is in order for your reckless and irresponsible behaviour.

I'd be surprised if you actually got a ticket for that. If you did, make up some cool excuse like the car behind you was locked up and skiding towards you, so you moved forward to avoid a collision - see, easy.
12:40pm 05/01/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
1943 posts
Another excuse you can use is you were rushing Boromir to the hospital because he had an arrow in his knee.
12:43pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
11597 posts
And my axe joke.
01:02pm 05/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3480 posts
you can see where the sensors are, just look out for the cuts in the road. I don't remember where they are, is it just after the solid white line, or after the second dashed line?
01:12pm 05/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20339 posts
They take 2 photo's to confirm if you have stopped or gone through. If you stopped then the second photo will show that and you should be fine.
Hmmm. I have been done for just going over the solid lane. I was driving home from work at like 3am and a light turned orange right at a dicey time. I knew the lights had cameras so I attempted to stop after a moments hesitation and ended up locking up the brakes and stopping just over the solid line. I got the red light offense in the mail and you could see the tyre smoke from me attempting to stop hehe. I just paid the fine.
03:38pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Stevo
Rockhampton, Queensland
13 posts
As I said in post 3 of this thread, before the influx of retardism :

S56 TORUM Regs :

A driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a red traffic light--

(a) must stop--
(i) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights--as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the stop line; or
(ii) if there is a stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic lights, but no stop line--as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the sign; or
(iii) if there is no stop line or stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic lights--as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only traffic lights; and
(b) must not proceed until--
(i) the traffic lights change to green or flashing yellow; or
(ii) a green or flashing yellow traffic arrow is showing, if the driver is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow.
Maximum penalty--20 penalty units.

You need to stop before the stop line. You don't need to go through the whole intersection.

A stop line is defined as :

stop line means a continuous line that--

(a) is marked across all or part of a road; and
(b) is not part of a marked foot crossing or a keep clear marking.

There's the law for you. If you went over the stop line and got snapped, you're f***ed.
04:02pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8459 posts
Maximum penalty--20 penalty units.

dont think this qld laws is it? 20 points is a f*** tonne of points to lose from going through a red light :/
04:05pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1928 posts
penalty units are not points,

there is a value (in dollars) attached to each penalty point
04:06pm 05/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3482 posts
penalty units are not points,

there is a value (in dollars) attached to each penalty point


they never make it easy do they.
05:20pm 05/01/12 Permalink
fade
Brisbane, Queensland
7241 posts
dont think this qld laws is it? 20 points is a f*** tonne of points to lose from going through a red light :/

haha.

they never make it easy do they.

actually, penalty units is a very good idea.

That way every time they index fines and penalties - usually ever 24 months or so, all they have to do is amended the definition of a penalty unit one Act rather than amended each and every penalty in each and every Act.
05:33pm 05/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20342 posts
dont think this qld laws is it? 20 points is a f*** tonne of points to lose from going through a red light :/

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4990/tumblrl7f17z0f5c1qdoghi.png
07:38pm 05/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3483 posts
actually, penalty units is a very good idea.


I was thinking that they should put a $$$ value against points lost instead of penalty units..

Eg. you lose 3 points for going through red light, each point is $110 for example so fine would be $330.
08:01pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1936 posts
thats kinda what they do

20 penalty point = the total fine amount

however the "points" is a separate system, (designed (in theory) to punish offenders and when you lose enough points, you loss the rights to drive)
08:05pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
276 posts
You accumulate demerit points yo! :)
08:08pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1937 posts
You accumulate demerit points yo! :)


no, you have an allotted amount of points, you lose them you don't drive,

however those you lose come back to you in 3 years
08:12pm 05/01/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
15994 posts
i'm pretty sure technically it's an accumulation system,

ie. you're allowed to accumulate 12 points before you license is suspended
but as if anyone talks about it like that
08:34pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Triamks
Brisbane, Queensland
3444 posts
They take 2 photo's to confirm if you have stopped or gone through. If you stopped then the second photo will show that and you should be fine. That's how I think it works anyway.


That's how it works.

i'm pretty sure technically it's an accumulation system,

ie. you're allowed to accumulate 12 points before you licence is suspended


To be more technically correct, demerit points that have been on your record for 3 years are no longer counted for the purposes of determining whether your licence is suspended.

but as if anyone talks about it like that


People who are correct do.

Correct.
08:44pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1938 posts
f*** me reading about it makes me think TMR have know idea,

you lose points,
you are allocated demerit points
and you accrue points,


the demerit point offences
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/bd27257b-f720-4347-bac2-7bc57fe36cc4/demerit_points_schedule_v33_20110408.pdf

and f*** me, must have been awhile since i got a fine but this is a little harsh (when there are still way around this, ie company car etc)
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Driver-guide/Speeding/Fines-and-demerit-points.aspx
08:44pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
1665 posts
no, you have an allotted amount of points, you lose them you don't drive,

however those you lose come back to you in 3 years

You don't have any points.
Having points is bad.
You accumulate DEmerit points.
Not lose merit points.


So, on your open license you can accumulate 12 Demerit points before loosing your license or GB.

Penalty units, I was told so they can change the amount 1 penalty unit is worth without tedious amounts of re-writing legislation. (dont know how true this is, just legal mumbo jumbo)
09:13pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Stevo
Rockhampton, Queensland
14 posts
Penalties and Sentences Act 1992 (Qld)

S5) Meaning of penalty unit
(1) The value of a penalty unit is—

(a) for the State Penalties Enforcement Act 1999 or an infringement notice under that Act, other than an infringement notice for an offence against a local law—$100; or
(b) for a local law, or an infringement notice under the State Penalties Enforcement Act 1999 for an offence against a local law—the amount, not more than $100, prescribed under a regulation; or
(c) in any other case, for this or another Act—$100.

$100 per penalty unit. So for running a red light, in the most serious of ways, a judge could fine you up to $2000.

Do I have to correct you bozos every time?
01:09am 06/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3484 posts
however the "points" is a separate system, (designed (in theory) to punish offenders and when you lose enough points, you loss the rights to drive)


wtf, lose license forever??
01:09am 06/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20343 posts
So which troll account are you Stevo?
04:05pm 06/01/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3048 posts
So which troll account are you Stevo?


Door for sure.
05:18pm 06/01/12 Permalink
JakeG
Thailand
1037 posts
Friend of mine in heavy traffic moved past a green light into an intersection thinking the traffic would move up.

Traffic didn't move and he was stuck in the middle.. so he reversed and that set off the red light camera.

He appealed it in court and lost.
05:32pm 06/01/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3049 posts
@ JakeG

He shouldn't have entered the intersection until he knew he could cross it without blocking traffic. I hate people that do that. I never do it. However, I agree that a fine is harsh however the law is the law i guess.
05:48pm 06/01/12 Permalink
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05:48pm 06/01/12 Permalink
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