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Motorcycle safety thread
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3497 posts
Hi guys,

take care while riding your bikes over the holidays - watch out for people who use the 'I DIDN'T SEE YOU THERE' defence.

Otherwise, you wind up with one of these.

http://i.imgur.com/3nJZt.jpg



This was 5km hour.

No I don't ride a vespa.

:(
02:46pm 03/01/12 Permalink
system
Internet
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02:46pm 03/01/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15065 posts
Ride like everyone is out to kill you, because they might as well be.
02:50pm 03/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
447 posts
What sort of motorbike boots were you wearing?
02:52pm 03/01/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8165 posts
Well I assume they didn't see you there, hence running into you or making you hit something else. Unless there was intent to maim you, then get all Judge Judy on their ass.

What footwear did you have on? Volley's?
02:52pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
1638 posts
Chinese safety boots
02:59pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
4733 posts
Ow.
03:07pm 03/01/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
9901 posts
no wonder surgeons refer to them as donorcyclists
03:11pm 03/01/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5183 posts
I ride a scooter and I'm out to kill everyone. I'm hardcore.
03:11pm 03/01/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8406 posts
That looks like it would be fun to poke.
03:12pm 03/01/12 Permalink
qmass
Queensland
10242 posts
My safety tip is to not ride a motorcycle... I drive like everyone is out to kill me with a big metal shell around me, f*** trying to avoid the spastics on our roads without that.
03:43pm 03/01/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
725 posts
Looks like a nasty sprain without abrasions from what I can see? I guess the fact that it's not in a cast means you didn't break anything? Or did you just take your moon boot off? Those marks above your ankle suggest blood pooling in bandages to me.

I've got a set of photos very similar from continuing to play indoor soccer after a sprain.
03:45pm 03/01/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15066 posts
I drive like everyone is out to kill me with a big metal shell around me
there's always someone out there with a bigger metal shell than what you have :(
03:53pm 03/01/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8171 posts
Yes, but small metal shell against big metal shell is still far better than no metal shell against any metal shell.
04:11pm 03/01/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5014 posts
Video games tell me that agility is far better than slow but raw strength. That or numbers. So start riding in gangs.

Get well soon sprained spacey
04:23pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1888 posts
ouch,

maybe new/better boots are in order
04:24pm 03/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3473 posts
looks nasty, so what happened?
04:26pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Boxhead
Brisbane, Queensland
12277 posts
5kmph clearly should have been at 500kmph... GO FASTER NOOBLAH!
04:35pm 03/01/12 Permalink
justrev
Melbourne, Victoria
393 posts

you gonna ride a bike maybe you shouldn't be ninja
05:09pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Mosfx
Gold Coast, Queensland
858 posts
My Dads been in the Ambulance service for 27 years, when I told him I was thinking of getting my motorcycle license he immediately said no.
My Dad is pretty cool too, he never says no to anything.
05:33pm 03/01/12 Permalink
`ViPER`
Brisbane, Queensland
4075 posts
take care while riding your bikes over the holidays - watch out for people who use the 'I DIDN'T SEE YOU THERE' defence.


In defense of us crazy car drivers, most of the time we DON'T see you there, because, without wanting to start a car vs Motorbike debate, most of the time you guys on bikes seem to be either speeding, and come up besides us a lot quicker than you should have, or just plain riding stupidly and lane changing without indicating or while it isn't safe.

05:33pm 03/01/12 Permalink
CeMaX
Brisbane, Queensland
710 posts
I'm with Viper on this one. I'm sorry you got f***ed up and all that but..
After doing a couple of years away from my trade and driving trucks for big hours you learn alot about drivers and driving, and bike riders... They are mostly victims of their own stupidity.
05:43pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1893 posts
In defense of us crazy car drivers, most of the time we DON'T see you there, because, without wanting to start a car vs Motorbike debate, most of the time you guys on bikes seem to be either speeding, and come up besides us a lot quicker than you should have, or just plain riding stupidly and lane changing without indicating or while it isn't safe.



yeah, and the funny glowing thingy at the front of the bike doesn't help you see them at all

(to be fair, MOST bikers that I see (I might be more aware, or not, I was a rider once, so am more aware) do the right thing)

I have had drivers in the past say they couldn't see me even tho I was in clearly visible vehicle, looking around helps you see things

( I once had a bus driver claim he didn't see me on a bike, this was clearly not because he
a) didn't look, (I watched him, had a feeling he was a d***)
b) had an ipod on with earphones in (so didn't hear my horn, or me slapping his window till it broke!)

I've also had people claim the same thing when i was in a white jumbo hi top transit van with it's lights on (because they just plain disappear on you those pesky f*****g large vans!)

a bright yellow getz (the old yellow, not the washed out s*** they do now) again with the lights on (and in fine weather)

a yellow volvo (and i was in front of them)

so looking helps you see other road users
05:50pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Mosfx
Gold Coast, Queensland
859 posts
^^ I remember a rider trying to pop it up on the highway at 110kph, he fell off his bike and lucky my front tyre didn't run his head over. But there are alot of stupid car drivers as well.
05:52pm 03/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1888 posts
They are mostly victims of their own stupidity.

coming from a truck driver eh?

equal blame goes to car/truck drivers and motorbike riders - there are just as many f***wits in cars as on bikes.
05:52pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3498 posts
Sorry for the late response - been out taking my bike to the repairer

It's funny viper - that's exactly what happened - except it was the 4wd who changed lanes with .0005 secs of indicating and doing it all at once knocking me clean off the bike at a set of lights - so so much for your theory about speed and riding stupid :D

He also admitted fault straight away and helped me out so it's not all bad

Yep the injury was just massive bruising no breaks or fractures but it's very swollen - I wasn't wearing my proper boots but had the rest of my safety gear on so it could have been a lot worse - was just wearing runners at the time - silly mistake! Need to get a new helmet and jacket and jeans now though
05:53pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7160 posts
if someone claims they didn't see you then they are prob right and its your fault...

unless you look someone in the eye via a mirror/directly then assume they havnt seen you
06:01pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1894 posts
if someone claims they didn't see you then they are prob right and its your fault...

unless you look someone in the eye via a mirror/directly then assume they havnt seen you



bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

soooo, using your theory if I rear end someone, because "I didn't see them" it is their fault

you might want to rethink you stance on that
06:07pm 03/01/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
35359 posts
I think what Superform is saying is, always act like the other person can't see you and has no f*****g idea that you are there.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly, and I would also add, assume the other person is an idiot.

Even as a car driver I try to follow those rules. I did a few stints on the highway over Xmas up and down from the GC and as usual I was amazed at how absolutely terribad and unsafely people drive at 100km/h. Merging without looking, merging into gaps that would be unsafe at 60km/h, tailgating, overtaking a bicycle on a single-lane highway by crossing a double line because you couldn't be bothered waiting 5 seconds to do it safely (f***HEAD)... so many things.

I would simply be terrified on a motorcycle, all the time. I don't know how you guys can do it.
06:16pm 03/01/12 Permalink
flagger
Brisbane, Queensland
298 posts
Makes me feel alive to ride my bike! I ride 99% of the time now.

Had a lady in a 4WD in Mt Ommany shopping centre carpark stop (in a 1 way only section) in front of me while I was on my CBR600RR (had just picked it up 3 weeks before). She had stopped just after a turn right section to get to the main carpark and decided she needed to go back. Yup she backed into my bike, luckily only damaging the front fender. Her defence? 'I didn't see you'. Yer that headlight thats always on and my head that is pretty much at the same height as yours is totally invisible.

The main offenders of the 'I didn't see you are':
- Women in city style 4wd's
- Old men in huge offroad capable 4wd's
- Young guys in trade vehicles (especially with red P plates)
- Asian women
- Men in Commodores/Falcons
06:37pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1897 posts
trog, after seeing that terribad driving (which over this holiday wasn't just limited to highways, but all roads) would you agree that the the driver (all drivers in fact) have a duty to physically LOOK! around them (not just the rear view mirror but the sides, and shoulder checks) before doing a maneuver?

and should a driver fail to do so, is it the fault of the rider based on the fact he is on a bike??? (FYI I was always taught to ride like i couldn't be seen by other road users, and to ride in a fashion that was as visible as I could, this is also part of the reason many guys on cruisers have "loud" bikes, if you can't be seen, be heard)

(i'm not sure if other riders/past riders noticed, but I got the feeling that there where a number of new riders on the road with the number of bikers making noob errors, like riding in the dead middle of the lane when wet, and "hiding" (not riding in a visible place, and with lights off)


Trog, imo I (while feeling more vulnerable) found it safer on the bike (or at least felt safer) than driving all bar two cars, the reason being, i could see alot more of what was going on around me (or at least because of the vulnerable feeling was more aware!)
the bike also gave me more options if the traffic went tits up, (I have gone between cars to avoid crashing/dying on a highway when one of the cars 100 or so meters ahead had a tyre blow out, the cars around me hit something, or went into a ditch, while I just needed a change of pants, and a smoke!)
06:38pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1898 posts
Makes me feel alive to ride my bike! I ride 99% of the time now.

Had a lady in a 4WD in Mt Ommany shopping centre carpark stop (in a 1 way only section) in front of me while I was on my CBR600RR (had just picked it up 3 weeks before). She had stopped just after a turn right section to get to the main carpark and decided she needed to go back. Yup she backed into my bike, luckily only damaging the front fender. Her defence? 'I didn't see you'. Yer that headlight thats always on and my head that is pretty much at the same height as yours is totally invisible.

The main offenders of the 'I didn't see you are':
- Women in city style 4wd's
- Old men in huge offroad capable 4wd's
- Young guys in trade vehicles (especially with red P plates)
- Asian women
- Men in Commodores/Falcons


I agree with most of that,

however falcons with spoilers, and all commodores, (man the boot on the commodore is high, and there are massive blind spots in that car)

also, nice bike,
06:40pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7161 posts
my point is based on 20+ years riding experience - i have learned that any accident is your fault.. (my second road bike was a cbr600rr bought new back in 94)

that lady that backed into you.. you could have avoided that if you were a more experienced rider,

go back to my golden rule.. if you didnt look them in the eye they didnt see you.. using this rule its pretty dumb to pull in behind a car.. ANYWHERE! always drive/stop to the driver mirror side of the car, if the car is driving in a way they they will turn right then switch to the left mirror, etc never drive/park directly behind anything.. them backing into you is not even the biggest risk, being rearended yourself and being sandwiched between 2 cars is a much bigger risk, if your on the side you can always get out of the way

there is no right or wrong or fault or not at fault.. there is only you living and you dieing.. be smart and try to stay alive

06:52pm 03/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
448 posts
my point is based on 20+ years riding experience - i have learned that any accident is your fault.. (my second road bike was a cbr600rr bought new back in 94) that lady that backed into you.. you could have avoided that if you were a more experienced rider, go back to my golden rule.. if you didnt look them in the eye they didnt see you.. using this rule its pretty dumb to pull in behind a car.. ANYWHERE! always drive/stop to the driver mirror side of the car, if the car is driving in a way they they will turn right then switch to the left mirror, etc never drive/park directly behind anything.. them backing into you is not even the biggest risk, being rearended yourself and being sandwiched between 2 cars is a much bigger risk, if your on the side you can always get out of the way there is no right or wrong or fault or not at fault.. there is only you living and you dieing.. be smart and try to stay alive


Pretty much this, stay in first and make sure you have a good exit strategy too.
06:56pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1901 posts
superform, I mistook your stance,

and yes, unless you know they see you, act they they didn't, and you can avoid so much hurt

edit>> and I know how easy it is to ride up behind someone and they roll into you, but i reckon had you been in a car the result would have pretty much been the same
06:56pm 03/01/12 Permalink
flagger
Brisbane, Queensland
299 posts
that lady that backed into you.. you could have avoided that if you were a more experienced rider


Ah, no. Single lane, with a wall on 1 side, and a high kerb on the other. I followed her 10 metres into it like everyone does in that section. Only way to avoid that incident would have been to stay at home or go the wrong way out of the carpark (great idea!).

I know some riders say every accident is avoidable, but sometimes you just get put in a corner you can't get out of.

I also like how you are condescending of everyone in this thread because you say you have 20 years riding experience.

last edited by flagger at 18:58:14 03/Jan/12
06:57pm 03/01/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3476 posts
you guys b**** a lot, you should see the chaos in developing Asian countries. We have it pretty f*****g good here.

last edited by maRtz at 19:42:11 03/Jan/12
07:32pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1908 posts
you guys b**** a lot, you should see the chaos in developing Asian countries. We have it pretty f*****g good hear.



yes and no, asia has a method of getting bad drivers off the road, (death)

also, in places like India, they dont need a licence to buy a car, so there is no training, and very little adherence to the road rules, something that is becoming a problem here, (part of the road rules is to use that funny little flashing light to show people what you plan to do on the road)

one thing that some asians have (and I use the word some, mostly by virtue of the fact they are still alive) is situational awareness
07:38pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Boxhead
Brisbane, Queensland
12278 posts
Hehe my favourite 'i didn't see you' happened at my workplace carpark (not me riding but i witnessed it). Lady pulls up at the boomgate to leave.. Realises she hasn't actually paid for the carpark and there is no booth.. proceeds to reverse right over the top of a dude on a bike waiting behind her.. He had literally nowhere to go and she kept on coming

'I didn't see you there'
07:42pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Timmeh
Brisbane, Queensland
1646 posts
if someone claims they didn't see you then they are prob right and its your fault...

unless you look someone in the eye via a mirror/directly then assume they havnt seen you
08:07pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7162 posts
na i'm condescending cause you broke your ankle and then try and blame the car,

I have been in that position around 4 times that i remember and each time i instinctively was in a good position so that i could get out of the way or give ample warning, i remember being exactly in the position you say.. where there was no option of sitting on the mirror.. you know what i did instinctively? stopped behind the car with around 4m gap.. all the time looking at the driver.. they didnt see me.. and as soon as i saw the brain tick over that they wanted to go backwards (about 1 sec before they actually did) i was on the horn and didnt let it off until they stopped moving

for me it was always natural to use common sense when driving.. and I always used to think.. it would be good for all car drivers to ride a bike for 12 months before they got a car license.. but as i got older i realised not everyone is smart enough to ride smart.. so it wouldnt help car drivers at all

i just try and keep clear of the retards on the road.. which means I just prefer to sit at home
08:34pm 03/01/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6630 posts
hard luck space ninja. bit of haematoma & swelling... you'll be on your feet in no time :)

rekn you'll get an insurance right off with the bike?
08:53pm 03/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20316 posts
I reckon the only thing that could possibly be more unnecessarily dangerous than riding a motorbike would be riding an incredibly hungry lion.
08:55pm 03/01/12 Permalink
oldwolf
Melbourne, Victoria
13 posts
I have been riding since I was 14, now 54, I have had 1 accident in that time. The best bit of advice I recieved was from a former race rider at the time. Treat every vehicle on the road as a maniac out to get you. It has waorked for 40 years. I learned NOT to ride in the centre of the lane, (where does all that oil, deisel, other gunk end up??) I usually ride about 5mtrs back from a car, and watch the driver, not the indicator/brake lights, I look throuoght the car/s about 4-5 ahead, (which should be done while driving a car also), I look in the drivers mirror, at the driver to see if he is watching around him, if they move onto the centre line, I move left and watch even harder. I have ridden everything from a postie bike up to a Harley, and seldom been in a situation I couldnt have avoided. (once I was almost taken out by a postie, who got in his van andpulled out while sitting down and doing up his seatbelt, I was trying to avoid another bike at the time, so was a bit distracted), I also adopt the ATGATT philosophy. (all the gear all the time). If I go down to the milkbar, full gear. If I go to the bush, all the gear. There is no difference, Im sorry you got hurt Space Ninja, but runners or work boots dont cut it, as you found out. From the looks of it you will be sore for a few weeks, but will heal. If you are after good quality gear, at reasonable prices, give a friend of mine a look at, I use their gear it is good. ( if Im allowed to post the URL)
http://www.starider.com.au/
Sorry about the long post.
One thing I forgat, and almost all noobs do it, DO NOT under any cicumstance ride on the painted white lines, arrows, etc, especially when wet!!!!!
09:36pm 03/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20320 posts
^ some good sounding advice up dere.
09:38pm 03/01/12 Permalink
sCOOBY
Brisbane, Queensland
4389 posts
+1 hi5 oldwolf. drivers body language and head movements are a great early warning indicator. + you can see how alert / off with the fairies they are by watching their eyes in the mirror.

often i find i can read most drivers thoughts through subtle car-body-language indications. hard to explain...

last edited by sCOOBY at 21:48:57 03/Jan/12
09:47pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Red
Sydney, New South Wales
902 posts
there is no right or wrong or fault or not at fault


I think I've become dumber by reading this.
09:51pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7165 posts
hey oldwolf, good advise

the only thing i dont agree with anymore is

DO NOT under any cicumstance ride on the painted white lines, arrows, etc, especially when wet!!!!!


this used to be 100% true and is still a good practice however on roads in NL (and I guess its a practice that is spreading around the world), the paint quality has drastically improved to the point that i have ridden over some paint that has more grip then the road.
09:51pm 03/01/12 Permalink
oldwolf
Melbourne, Victoria
14 posts
Its not that I dont trust the paint, but the white arrows are usually in the middle of the lane.................covered in .............???? :-)
I used to use a stretch of road up bush a few years ago, where they tested the linemarking paints, and I would send a letter in to them to let them know which ones were dangerous. (forget where it was now though, I am 50+ after all).
09:59pm 03/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20322 posts
I think I've become dumber by reading this.
While superform is quite the drooling one, I think he was saying this in a certain context (that when it comes down to whether you survive an accident or not who is at fault is irrelevant, you're dead).

However in the aftermath who is at fault suddenly becomes very relevant.
10:00pm 03/01/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18202 posts
Bad luck on the injury, most drivers (motorcyclists included) are selfish a******* so be careful!
10:08pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Red
Sydney, New South Wales
903 posts
Possibly, but I also think he can't see the point from up there on his soapbox. He gave all that wonderful advice but maybe didn't realise he was beside the car that hit him? Beside and slightly in front at that. What was he going to do? Look around him making eye contact with all the drivers to make sure they could see him and didn't change lanes into him? Perhaps he should fit four yellow rotating beacon lights to his bike?

All the experience in the world counts for nought when some loser in a CX-7 wants your lane RIGHT NOW.
10:09pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
257 posts
in places like India, they dont need a licence to buy a car


You don't need a license to buy a car here either! ;)

10:11pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7166 posts
often i find i can read most drivers thoughts through subtle car-body-language indications. hard to explain...


actually its not hard to explain.. if anyone watches the driver instead of the car you will see the tells, ppl looking over their shoulder or even into their mirror without indicating is as good a tell as them actually indicating - and can sometimes be better, i have seen people indicating when their body clearly says they don't want to turn/change lanes whatever, and 9/10 the body tells are more accurate.

if you do it for many years you will be like sherlock holmes deducting what people will do, i used to look at car type, whats in the car, who is in the car, stickers on the car.. the place the car is driving,(are they near a school with school kids in the car?) you name it most things on or in the car can be used as a tell to work out what the driver is going to do..

try it sometime :)
10:13pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7167 posts
right or wrong before an accident and fault or no fault after an accident..

sorry if i stretched your brains..
10:17pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Vash
3389 posts
Motorcycling isnt as dangerous as its made out to be. If it were, i'd be dead by now for sure.
But having seen quite a few deaths of people i know on bikes, i dont ride on the road much anymore. Off-road is actually more fun, safer and gives me a good work out.
10:21pm 03/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20325 posts
As usual, you're wrong.

Motorcyclists are around 29 times more likely to be killed than operators of other vehicles travelling the same distance


http://www.aaa.asn.au/saferroads/bikes.asp
10:24pm 03/01/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5187 posts
I was once riding my scooter while wearing a top hat and a monocole. Riding with me was My Dear Friend and also my partner in detectiving. In front of me was a car, Toyota Camry, by the look of the paint and the shiny model number I could deduce that the the driver was female. Also she had red hair. The right hand side mirror reflected into the rear view mirror which showed the face of the a baby, a boy of mere 15 years of age, in a baby seat. From this, My Dear Friend deduced that she was clearly driving to pick up her younger son who goes to university. Now because I was in front of them, I knew I couldn't trust her (red head and camry? trouble trouble). So I hit the breaks hard, My Dear Friend falls out and gets run over by the red headed camry b****. He ended up getting 15 dislocated necks and a spinal tap. He is in a wheel chair but can still walk. She ended up going to court for smoking in the car.

Moral of the story, if you use your deductive skills you can see trouble ages away.
10:26pm 03/01/12 Permalink
ElDubya
Brisbane, Queensland
563 posts
10:35pm 03/01/12 Permalink
sCOOBY
Brisbane, Queensland
4390 posts
^ in south east asia?
10:37pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7169 posts
I was once riding my scooter while wearing a top hat and a monocole. Riding with me was My Dear Friend and also my partner in detectiving. In front of me was a car, Toyota Camry, by the look of the paint and the shiny model number I could deduce that the the driver was female. Also she had red hair. The right hand side mirror reflected into the rear view mirror which showed the face of the a baby, a boy of mere 15 years of age, in a baby seat. From this, My Dear Friend deduced that she was clearly driving to pick up her younger son who goes to university. Now because I was in front of them, I knew I couldn't trust her (red head and camry? trouble trouble). So I hit the breaks hard, My Dear Friend falls out and gets run over by the red headed camry b****. He ended up getting 15 dislocated necks and a spinal tap. He is in a wheel chair but can still walk. She ended up going to court for smoking in the car. Moral of the story, if you use your deductive skills you can see trouble ages away.


i just used my deduction skills to find a smartarse
10:53pm 03/01/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
12128 posts
I try to ride like those 80 billion year old bikies. I figure if they are that old and still riding, they must be doing it right. 98.45% of the time they are riding very sedatly, hanging back from cars, sitting to the right/left of the lane, don't split lanes, and generally just cruise.
10:59pm 03/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1913 posts
As usual, you're wrong.

Motorcyclists are around 29 times more likely to be killed than operators of other vehicles travelling the same distance

http://www.aaa.asn.au/saferroads/bikes.asp



29 times more likely to be killed in the event of an accident

.057% of all bike owners will die on the road, based on the figures in that link, over the last 10 years,

and compared to the death rate compared to car drivers it is high, however to be fair cars have increased majorly in safety over the last 50 years

it is a little hard to put side impact bars, and crash cells, and crumple zones on a bike (I left air bags out, because i know BMW developed some for the goldwing)

also, how many of those deaths happened on a public holiday/weekend vs work week (bike used for transport verses bike used for s**** and giggles fun!)
08:30am 04/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1914 posts
I try to ride like those 80 billion year old bikies. I figure if they are that old and still riding, they must be doing it right. 98.45% of the time they are riding very sedatly, hanging back from cars, sitting to the right/left of the lane, don't split lanes, and generally just cruise.



i tried to when i rode......however i found i could never grow my beard that long or white
08:31am 04/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3499 posts
another late response - I'll do up a diagram in a few minutes to try to explain but I agree with a lot of the comments regarding rider positioning etc.

my bike is a 2001 R6 as well, so its not a small piece of machinery - went off to the reparier yesterday who told me it will be fine!


This is what happened

3 lane road - heading toward the city, red light approx 100m ahead everybody slows down. Lane 1 is the one closest to the curb, Lane 3 is closest to the middle of the road. I'm in Lane 2 behind a white camry but second in line for the lights - lights go red then green and 4wd in Lane 3 flicks indicator on and merges in same movement because the guy infront of him was apparently too slow to take off from the lights and this lane 2 had no traffic in it (except for me on a bike hurr) and he could gun it, instead he guns it straight into me and I hit the front quarter panel of his 4wd.

I was pretty amazed by the response of some people around, guy came running out of nowhere to grab my bike and take it off the road - I hit the killswitch but was winded and in shock - this guy came and got my bike, helped me up and made sure I was good before my friend arrived who was 5mins away. The guy in the 4wd admitted fault straight away and has been good about it, his insurance is paying for everything. I dont have any broken bones, just a big swollen right foot and a nasty lesson that I'll always wear my boots in the future. It's funny, this is the second time I've ever not worn the boots out riding. Oh well.

I'll probably need a new helmet too, jacket was fine, ripped up my jeans though so thats a bit of a shame, they were good jeans :(

Procedure down here is that if any vehicle is towed from an accident, the police need to have a report, so thats been done and dusted too - local cop told me my leg looked 'badass' and chicks dig scars or something.

I'm glad it was at 5km/h and not 50km/h - in the future I'm going to lanesplit at sets of lights so I can take off first as it appears every clown does dumb s*** at low speed, at least at high speed you can sense it coming.
09:22am 04/01/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15069 posts
*Grabs Popcorn*
09:26am 04/01/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8173 posts
ripped up my jeans though so thats a bit of a shame, they were good jeans :(



Don't kids pay extra for the ripped jeans these days?
09:36am 04/01/12 Permalink
scuzzy
Brisbane, Queensland
15070 posts
Unless they were Kevlar jeans, then you don't want them ripped.
09:40am 04/01/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1327 posts
I only own a motorbike and on my 30min ride to work/uni most days i will need to dodge or accelerate/brake to avoid a car changing lanes car where it is not my fault. People just dont see a bike as easily as a whole car.

I'll admit i do dodgy things on my bike from time to time (overtake in the merging inside lane for example) but most of the time i ride @ the speed limit in 60km/hr traffic and its simply f***tards who dont check all 3 points (rear vision mirror, side mirror and shoulder check) that will not see a bike but otherwise would see a car in the same place due to the larger size.
01:28pm 04/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
449 posts
I lowsided my bike wearing a leather jacket, 700$ sidi boots and plain old jeans(derp) and my jacket got worn down on one arm to the elbow/forearm protectors, my boots got worn and dented my tank and my jeans looked brand new.

HOWEVER holy s*** did I have some friction burns under those jeans, the pain was unreal I just couldn't believe it didn't break through the denim. I went and bought a 1 piece alpinestars suit for when I go on big rides now (and future trackdays I hope). I have to say though how nice it is to ride in full gear, when you're wearing the 1 piece you don't even think about your knee touching the tarmac where as when I was in jeans I was always losing concentration making sure my knee didn't come into hard full contact.

Even in summer that perforated leather is nice to wear, I really don't see the excuse for riding in shorts and a singlet, no gloves etc.
02:26pm 04/01/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5016 posts
Just to weigh in:

Yes people in cars have a duty to look at what's around them.

But at half of the people in the world are stupider than average.

I've had mates who had been riding 10+ years without an accident in brisbane city, mostly because they nearly have perfected their 6th sense of telling who is, and isn't watching their mirrors and positioning themselves correctly on the road.

They don't have to do something, but being on the back of their bike you quickly learn to be a better driver too. Getting that sense of where a blind spot is, where is an appropriate time to overtake, how to watch for edgy/nervous drivers and all that jazz comes along naturally, but it's something that matters a lot more as a rider.

Frankly, you take your life in your own hands, and think of everyone else as potential death threats and you'll be a lot safer than legal justifications and fancy high horse stances.

S*** happens on bikes and cars. S*** happens less when you own up to being able to put yourself in, and out of danger, and that applies to all vehicles, and life in general.
03:38pm 04/01/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5191 posts

But at half of the people in the world are stupider than average.
This is incorrect and also supports that half the people in the world are stupider than average.
07:38pm 04/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1920 posts
is that a mean or median average?

also, the only was to be truely safe on the road is to be the only one on it, or in the worlds biggest volvo with a massive bull bar, and a toothless old woman with a dead cat at her feet and a shotgun in her lap, perched on the bonnet
08:05pm 04/01/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7175 posts
http://s14.postimage.org/qavij71w1/superf.jpg

wear this.. it might save you
08:58pm 04/01/12 Permalink
ElDubya
Brisbane, Queensland
564 posts
Do what I did. Buy a Harley. I wear my leather jacket, jeans, open face helmet, dark sunnies and normally a bandanna tied over my lower face to protect from bugs and debris and believe me when I tell you when you cruise up behind a car and they hear the bike then check you out in the mirror, 95% of c**** just move to their left and get the f*** out of the way like magic.

Beats the hell out of the bright yellow SV650S that I had that car drivers never saw or noticed.
11:15pm 04/01/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
1329 posts
mostly because they nearly have perfected their 6th sense of telling who is, and isn't watching their mirrors and positioning themselves correctly on the road.

Totally agree.
12:04am 05/01/12 Permalink
skythra
Brisbane, Queensland
5026 posts
This is incorrect and also supports that half the people in the world are stupider than average.

It's true :(
is that a mean or median average?

If we use some fancy statistic rules, i think that you'd see that given a large enough sample, it would be normal distribution. Which by definition is words.

I can't remember, i passed that subject, without flying colours.
12:56am 05/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
450 posts
open face helmet


Seen the results of this. nah bro nah.
01:22am 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1923 posts
open face/full face is a completely different can of worms

both have downsides, and upsides,
02:22pm 05/01/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20340 posts
What is the downside of a full face?
03:50pm 05/01/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
8457 posts
Get really hot in them is about the only neg i can think of and maybe a bit less peripheral vision.
They are awesome for bugs and if you faceplant in a crash tho :)
03:53pm 05/01/12 Permalink
jum
Brisbane, Queensland
643 posts
when i fell off my bike a bunch of paint got scraped off the chin area of my helmet. if i had been wearing an open faced helmet i would probably be missing half my face
04:01pm 05/01/12 Permalink
sLaps_Forehead
Brisbane, Queensland
5743 posts
04:07pm 05/01/12 Permalink
blahnana
Brisbane, Queensland
726 posts
They don't look as good if you're a movie star.

I always find it funny the lengths they go to in movies to allow the stars to have full facial visibility. Obviously this is a necessity since the face conveys so much emotion, but next time you see someone wearing a mask/helmet watch the lengths the director will go to in order to try and keep the star's face visible.

Especially those hilarious bio-hazard masks.
04:09pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1929 posts
What is the downside of a full face?


if the chin bar fouls you can break your neck (but you have a jaw)

also, there is a high chance of spinal injury on removal post accident

heat, fogging, vision, but again can of worms and different views on the matter

(I've long been an open face user, and all my bikes had screens)

and when I got my CAMS all those years ago, I was using an open face in the car (but that was because of vision only)
04:14pm 05/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
451 posts
Full face helmets these days don't really get hot because they have awesome in built vents which you can open and close.

it confirmed the findings of a recently published Australian fatality study demonstrating no difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among full-face and open-face helmet wearers


Just fyi
Source : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15823877

04:59pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1930 posts
just fyi, try reading

These results contrasted with the findings of earlier studies. In consideration of the limitations of existing research on the role of helmets in spinal cord injury, further study is required based on a larger series or a series having a higher proportion of non-wearers and open-face helmet wearers, including both survivors and those killed

110 wearers that all ready HAD damage

that would be like assessing the difference in air bag deployments and whiplash for people admitted to hospital with whiplash, it kinda misses a whole segment of people (those who had an airbag deploy and suffered no injury)

also, behind a screen those vents are not that great,

but as i said, can of worms
(fyi, have you seen the different ways you can take a helmet of a crash victim?, you can crack an open face, and remove it with very little movement to the spine, you CAN'T remove a full face with out bending the neck!)
07:28pm 05/01/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
1947 posts
Talking of airbags, a drunk guy drove his commodore at 120 around the corner I used to live (50 zone), hit the gutter and flew into next doors car which sent it flying into the house. The airbags didn't deploy in either the commodore or the mazda 3. I thought that was comforting. Oh and the driver ran off down an alley leaving his underage, pregnant girlfriend in the car.
07:31pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1932 posts
yeah, airbags need a pretty set impact point to go off (unless your me on a Holden VZ drive day...stupid holdens)

they also need to have power (so key in, and turned) before they go off, unless you have a top end euro, (the mercs will go off if the seat sensors a person in the seat, however will not fully deploy if there is no seat belt (enough to cushion, not cocoon)
07:36pm 05/01/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
1948 posts
This isn't a pic, but that's what the front looked like, pretty solid hit
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/uploads/1165214133/gallery_305_302_63124.jpg

Glad I grew a heap of trees and parked my pajero in front of the kids room after waking up to a huge boom.
07:41pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1934 posts
the sad thing is at worse the driver might get a few year driving ban

by the look of it, because the angle of the crash the left sensor lost power (therefor not "firing to bag)

with d*** head drivers like this, almost makes it worth having ram raid post near the bedroom
07:45pm 05/01/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
1949 posts
I just leave shadowmere outside the bedrooms
07:47pm 05/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1935 posts
yeah 2 tons of metal does a pretty damn good job (much better than a brick wall at least) of stopping stay bogan cars
07:49pm 05/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
452 posts
just fyi, try reading


Maybe I'm reading it wrong but an Australian study was done, then this study was done to which confirmed the results of that study in that " there was no significant difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among unhelmeted and helmeted motorcyclist acute survivors. In addition, it confirmed the findings of a recently published Australian fatality study demonstrating no difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among full-face and open-face helmet wearers." Just like all good science as me move further ahead new studies may contrast with old, for instance did you know there was a study done to prove that we do not live on a flat earth?

So I read it as, it really doesn't matter what you wear, there were people admitted to the hospital with neck injuries while wearing open face helmets aswell. The odd's were not better for open face wearers.

My point is that in reality it's a personal choice where you must weigh up the pro's and con's yourself, neck injuries can happen to everyone and while it may be harder to remove the full face helmet for myself I'd rather still have a face underneath it.
05:22am 06/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1941 posts
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but an Australian study was done, then this study was done to which confirmed the results of that study in that " there was no significant difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among unhelmeted and helmeted motorcyclist acute survivors. In addition, it confirmed the findings of a recently published Australian fatality study demonstrating no difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among full-face and open-face helmet wearers." Just like all good science as me move further ahead new studies may contrast with old, for instance did you know there was a study done to prove that we do not live on a flat earth?

So I read it as, it really doesn't matter what you wear, there were people admitted to the hospital with neck injuries while wearing open face helmets aswell. The odd's were not better for open face wearers.

My point is that in reality it's a personal choice where you must weigh up the pro's and con's yourself, neck injuries can happen to everyone and while it may be harder to remove the full face helmet for myself I'd rather still have a face underneath it.



you read it wrong, (or least wrong for this argument,)

the study found, (using your logic in argument) that there is no difference in the level of spinal injury between UNhelmeted and helmeted

it doesn't address the survival chances (ie if you died before seeing the doc in this study, you didn't get counted)
it also doesn't say which is a better helmet for preventing spinal injury

(because if you want to feel safe, and use this study as a guide, don't both with the skid lid, it makes little difference in the type of spinal injury you get, provided you, survive ,and break your cervical spinal cord.)

yes there are still people that think the earth might be flat, and people still study it, but those studies often take a very very narrow set of details

good thing this study covers such a large, broad, set of parameters
09:31am 06/01/12 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
283 posts
Wow, having never been on a bike myself, one would assume the pro's are well worth it after having read this thread!? I used to live with a guy who had a brand new Hayabusa at the time, whatever the hell that is - quick I am guessing - but he was a bit of a maniac. :)
06:35pm 06/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1891 posts
Space Ninja, hows your foot now - look worse? if so another pic pls :)
07:32pm 06/01/12 Permalink
spoon
Brisbane, Queensland
453 posts
Copious are you missing the point? The study was of HELMET TYPE and Helmet vs No helmet.

it confirmed the findings of a recently published Australian fatality study demonstrating no difference in the odds of cervical spinal cord injury among full-face and open-face helmet wearers


08:30pm 06/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1947 posts
no spoon your missing the point

this wasn't a study about the risk of getting a spinal injury, it was a study about the type and extent of injury TO THOSE WHO GOT A SPINAL INJURY!

the fact that the type of injury doesn't differ for helmet vs no helmet screams that factors are missing
09:25pm 06/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3500 posts
Cause you asked DC.

http://i.imgur.com/b1Xvo.jpg

It's a lot better today, I went to work on it yesterday - it's going a nice yellow colour but its all the way up my leg - I'll take another shot soon if you're super keen :p
10:07pm 06/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3501 posts
Oh also

Bike has been written off - turned out to be a lot more damage than I can see. I doubt I'd feel confident getting back onto a repaired bike anyway - front forks were destroyed, front disc assembly done in, lots of cable damage, some possible engine damage too.

It's a shame, it was a nice bike.

http://i.imgur.com/Blw3u.jpg
10:09pm 06/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1948 posts
shame about the bike

as for your foot, well you have a gay foot (it is rainbow) dont you just love deep bruising and it's techni colour ouch
10:27pm 06/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1892 posts
yeah thats some pretty leet bruises there bloke.

:( for the bike
10:27pm 06/01/12 Permalink
IVY_MiKe
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
580 posts
indeed :( for the bike.

I've only OWNED a bike for the past 4 months, and I'm loving it (I had a few mates previously with spare bikes that I borrowed for a month or two at a time).

As ouchy as that looks SN, it's good that you aren't posting x-ray imagery of shins, hips or elbows.

In the last 2 years I've had two mates who've had themselves as much fun as you can survive in Moto accidents...

One (28) has a steel hip joint that'll need to be replaced every 4-6 years, and the other nearly lost his leg in Jan '11 (he only broke his leg.... his Femur.... in 4 places....)

It makes me appreciate the freedom I have to do what I love. I hope you are back up and able to get out on 2 wheels again soon.

It also makes me think... if the 'new invention' of a motorcycle was trying to be made road legal these days, there isn't a chance in hell the powers that be would approve it.
01:18am 07/01/12 Permalink
Vash
3390 posts
Seriously, just ride with a smart head and you wont get broken bones or die.
I'm not a slow rider but im not the fastest. seems the rewards of being the fastest guy in the group isn't worth the risk of injury.

Wouldn't mind downgrading my KTM 525 to a DR650 so it forces me to slow down and smell the roses
02:32am 08/01/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
12147 posts
I smell plenty of roses on my 250, and other less plesent stuff :(
09:28am 08/01/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
946 posts
*rolleyes* at the spine concerns and full-face helmet debate.

I can't even be bothered to explain how you are so wrong.
08:32pm 08/01/12 Permalink
Crunch
Perth, Western Australia
1087 posts
^ Thanks for the contribution.

How was the bike written off at such a low speed impact? Especially the forks etc? Just curious.
10:06pm 08/01/12 Permalink
Vash
3391 posts
sport bikes are s*** honestly. Dirt bike / Supermoto all the way for crashing, picking it up, and continuing, as well as econonmy, fun factory, getting through traffic.

One time i lowsided in a roundabout on cold new tyres, even though i barely leaned, and zero damage. picked it up and continued on to work. had a small bruise on my knee but that was it.
10:17pm 08/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1893 posts
sport bikes are s*** honestly.

no, they're not. but i see what you are saying :)
10:25pm 08/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3502 posts
Bike was written off due to damage

You figure it, 2001 R6 Redbook Value is approx $6000

Damage to the bike

Front busted and need replacing, fairings need replacing on RH side, Mirror replacement, new throttle handle/brake lever, engine cover plus inspection and labour.

That would add up to over $3000 easily. It's over that so we'll see what happens from here. That also doesn't include the cost of my gear which I'll have to claim as well, just had another look at my jacket and its all torn up on the right hand side, didn't notice it at first but it's destroyed!
02:33pm 09/01/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
1961 posts
most insurers go by the glass's guide, and the value can differ alot between that and redbook
03:18pm 09/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1896 posts
don't forget your gear is a disposable item...

replace everything.
04:24pm 09/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3503 posts
The official quote just came back

$6500 repair cost.

Definite writeoff.
05:14pm 09/01/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
9910 posts
one less motorbike
the world feels better already
05:17pm 09/01/12 Permalink
Space Ninja
Sydney, New South Wales
3504 posts
Die in an LPG fire hardware.
05:26pm 09/01/12 Permalink
Red
Sydney, New South Wales
904 posts
Ahh hardware. You're a d***.
05:28pm 09/01/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
1897 posts
Die in an LPG fire hardware.

that.
08:51pm 09/01/12 Permalink
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